Katalin Karikó: The unimaginable, obstacle-laden, multi-decade journey to discover the mRNA platform and win the 2023 Nobel Prize
· 54 min
Episode Katalin Karikó: The unimaginable, obstacle-laden, multi-decade journey to discover the mRNA platform and win the 2023 Nobel Prize
“The history of science, it turns out, is filled with stories of very smart people laughing at good ideas.”—Katalin Karikó
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The list of obstacles that Kati Karikó faced to become a scientist, to make any meaningful discovery, to prevail over certain scientists and administrators who oppressed her, unable to obtain grants, her seminal paper rejected by all of the top-tier journals, demoted and dismissed, but ultimately to be awarded the 2023 Nobel Prize with Drew Weissman, is a story for the ages. We covered them in this conversation, which for me will be unforgettable, and hopefully for you an inspiration.
Recorded 30 January 2023, unedited transcript below
Eric Topol (00:06):
Well, hello, this is Eric Topol with Ground Truths, and I am really thrilled to have with me Kati Kariko, who I think everyone knows won the Nobel Prize with the Drew Weissman in 2023 and she has written a sensational book, it's called Breaking Through. I love that title because it's a play on words, a breakthrough and breaking through, and we have a lot to talk about Kati, so welcome.
Katalin Kariko (00:34):
Thank you very much for inviting me.
Eric Topol (00:36):
Yes, well I'd like to start off, as you did in the book with your background in Hungary where of course you started with a tough background in a one room house without running water and you never had exposures to scientists and somehow or other you became interested in science and you attributed some of these things like your biology teacher, Mr. Tóth and the book Stress of Life [by Hans Selye] Could you tell us a little bit more what stimulated you in a career of science?
Katalin Kariko (01:18):
I have to say that every child is interested in understanding the nature around them and so I was surrounded with nature because we had big garden, we had animals around and it was an exciting thing. The children ask questions and if they try to find an answer and teachers or parents might give the answer, but definitely the school, even elementary school was very stimulating. Teachers, chemistry teacher, figure out how we can make crystals and I was so excited to have my own crystals and things like that and in high school the teachers were so engaging and not like they tried to put all of the information into your brain, but they encourage you to think yourself, so that's all contributed. I think that most of the child in the first, I don't know, six, seven years of their life that’s how they can see their parents behaving, their friends, the school, classmates, and they shaped what kind of people they will be at the end and the rest of it is refining.
Eric Topol (02:41):
Right, right. Well one of the things I loved that you brought up in the book was how much you liked the TV show Columbo. That's one of my favorite TV shows of all time and one more thing, one more thing. Can you talk a little bit about Columbo? Because in some ways you were like the Peter Falk of mRNA in terms of one more thing.
Katalin Kariko (03:09):
Yes, so I realized that we as researchers, we are not called searchers, we researchers, so we are repeating things. Of course everybody knows who committed the crime in Columbo because this is how it starts and you don't have to figure out, but it seems always that things in a different direction you would lead but all the little clues and some of my colleagues said that they as a physician, they have this tunnel vision. So the patient comes and they can figure out probably from some clues that this is the disease and they get back the lab results and others. Then they realize that one or two things is not fitting, but they always so strongly believe their first instinct. What I taught them to focus on those which will not fit because that will lead to the real perpetrator in case of Columbo.
(04:23):
And so I like the simplicity. I know that what we are doing this research is very over complicated, but…
Links in the notes 15
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/w3Y-VImnQSWWMqHsxVGC1KVo7xBYaAj9twl-7er_SaGaDAvcNlYKnYMxtCBzzsqMLigxmFQyml4tTh2hj3NBaNAurZA?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=6.45
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/eJ9mS60zWw86VYNtc5mw9JHYs6t0dvkcKUhOxZIqptEYBaRBi43aXfwB9CL_Mc7M_-uokvD33AFjzcDzSKzJnI5DHjg?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=34.44
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/rzJaU9LNuhFPxIK6PFUXddTsz03PybyoVab4OFhjbQqKCav_3_OoU0D-OCpM59sZPk0oeFW1wBTrX8XgV3hqGzAfnUs?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=36.66
- https://www.amazon.com/Stress-Life-Hans-Selye/dp/0070562121
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/N20lGsL5f_W0k1BvI3dDJtRwcPO2WD0-bkjgh0dborCTWgq4IecxE7gVG7HvvAASHbm9LY0KZfwh6XrsRwa5_fxWvu4?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=78.69
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/-T9E4iR_tRP6QmjTNtNt8vcj-9NYxLlCmbiPd_7-2MMibenCZi5DQKH60z8XeWmbqRXqCDZFLQcDV_QRUurSQE56K9Y?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=161.72
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/qq5sH9ApThjUiXu1nlvJdGe2V7UuoLaX4whA1Px9TaoXzVFilw2ImEkQx-8VPlzVem5ZPtEY2W6cMUNRIQaPYt7kqSw?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=189.37
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/E37xuj-VIBxRoAllxYwEmyFmqlJsKXEqaRSIFT4lQUr5qYnSSSwbKV2QbbY6hKFnN47eg6nh9DM45P_Ctmi88VyXVDk?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=263.62
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/xwiJwHPE6HSe4KJAw_EN6rm60berVP6PLWmhOtJLfXkAvkrqmgFEbM73qmJlCoFYdr4mXVApbs_9sqqd6vCIueliQWQ?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=335.65
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/ILQ2EkhkDK6dV_NS7x2b9I1IRPu--Km58hx7vTJjrGnG58wrU1ePIJJuDznyacXgc0Av97-AFxfD-kD9RjyNzKxDSDQ?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=391.88
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/RAbfZGHQqUgcurgnJjxF-4D-tu9R9U__zcTGmuCgFHmXM_TLD_ZeQeVNLmN9xHF3MEUamKpliK_wCyYWirCwaNaPl60?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=418.88
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/aHQ9riXlUROXyi1yoOx1i-q4gm7-B7zTmSmAXAvo1fIMw1o2di0URR4rO-Hiukf37vDU4OO6VoRfXCO3R4Q66XUBYDc?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=485.78
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/uBsU9pF99_jNzlKXChjdarbx7boNLJVNRJzgDbLPMMopgpLjfxzK8Ka7vA157nFwANXSGB47Th6M-shAGYUTvXStsuk?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=520.31
- https://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/6FnuVRSuFyL4tsPmKBnNm6GCQhfkUuIDY_lMRaDqT0iLRAe7CJ5IWXh34onwpJwrPBWl_EirLmsfMq7bwd_IJYAGP-Q?loadFrom=DocumentDeeplink&ts=564.99
- https://erictopol.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4
Transcript
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