Podcasts · Pod Save America

Deep State Rebels v. Trump (with Michael Lewis)

4 Oct 2026 · 1 h 04 min · Episode 1221 · Explicit

Michael Lewis, the New York Times bestselling author of "Moneyball" and "The Big Short," stops by the studio to talk to Lovett about "Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State," his latest book on the government employees who stood up to Elon Musk and Donald Trump during the heyday of DOGE.

Lovett and Lewis revisit the story of Colin O'Brien, the security chief who locked DOGE out of the U.S. Institute of Peace, and break down how Howard Lutnick's takeover of the Commerce Department reveals the inner workings of Trump's government.

Then, Lewis shares what essential government employees told him about working under DOGE, why he thinks DOGE may have been created in the first place, and how the next Democratic candidate should make rebuilding the government a top message following DOGE's damage.

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