# Foxworth Friday: NFL Collusion, Dallas Turner Scammed, "The Decision's" Impact

An episode of [The Right Time with Bomani Jones](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/982639043), 11 Jul 2025, 58 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/370fc844-36bd-4f61-8b8f-b4bb010de39a/2338b0c9-490a-4e84-b122-b4bb01236d2f/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=919a7cbe-003c-4146-b592-b4bb010de3a5

Bomani Jones is joined by Domonique Foxworth for another edition of Foxworth Friday. On today’s episode, the guys start off by chatting about the unusual agreement between the NFL and the NFLPA to keep collusion findings secret (5:58) and why Bo doesn't think Lloyd Howell Jr. is an ideal candidate to be running the NFL players union (11:43). They return from the break in shock over Devin Booker's $145M contract extension (33:24) and try to make sense of how Minnesota Vikings edge rusher Dallas Turner could've been scammed (39:58). They wrap up the show by reminiscing over LeBron James' 'Decision' to sign with the Miami Heat which was 15 years ago today. (49:07) . . . Subscribe to Supercast for Ad-Free Episodes: https://righttime.supercast.com/ Buy 'The Right Time' merch: http://therighttimebomani.com/ Subscribe to The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok for all the best moments from the show. Download Full Podcast Here: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6N7fDvgNz2EPDIOm49aj7M?si=FCb5EzTyTYuIy9-fWs4rQA&nd=1&utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-right-time-with-bomani-jones/id982639043?utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Follow The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Social Media: http://lnk.to/therighttime Support the Show: Download the DraftKings Pick Six app NOW and use code BOMANI. Better payouts. Bigger wins. Only with Pick6 from DraftKings. The Crown is yours. Go to zbiotics.com/BOMANI to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use BOMANI at checkout. Celebrate the progress you’ve already made. Visit BetterHelp.com/BOMANI today to get 10% off your first month. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time. A wave original.
[0:10] Speaker 1: My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
[0:12] Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
[0:16] Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
[0:19] Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
[0:21] Speaker 1: a hater and go to therighttimebeaumont.com. If you are watching
[0:26] Speaker 1: on YouTube, you can see that I am wearing this
[0:28] Speaker 1: classy Right Time with Beaumont Jones t-shirt. We have merch
[0:31] Speaker 1: available for you now at therighttimebeaumont.com. But first... it is
[0:37] Speaker 1: Foxworth Friday Dominique Foxworth what's going on too much is
[0:41] Speaker 1: going on but I'm excited to be back with Foxworth
[0:44] Speaker 1: Friday a well-timed Foxworth Friday hey brother I ain't gonna
[0:48] Speaker 1: lie man I watched you on television this morning as
[0:50] Speaker 1: we was recording boy y'all scraping the bowl trying to
[0:52] Speaker 1: figure out what to talk about on TV like my
[0:54] Speaker 1: favorite thing about not having to do this every day
[0:57] Speaker 1: now is I turn on the morning ESPN and I.
[1:00] Speaker 2: Be like damn I know them producers was up all
[1:03] Speaker 2: night trying to figure out how to make a show
[1:05] Speaker 2: out of this.
[1:06] Speaker 3: It's tough, man. But it's also like the thing about
[1:09] Speaker 3: having your show or having a show of your own
[1:12] Speaker 3: is the people who come there also to some degree
[1:15] Speaker 3: are coming there for you. The people who are watching
[1:17] Speaker 3: Get Up is watching for sports. And it's like, ain't
[1:22] Speaker 3: too much going on right now. We got to do
[1:24] Speaker 3: a lot of projecting and predicting and reminiscing. It ain't
[1:27] Speaker 3: the same. It's like if you go off on some
[1:29] Speaker 3: tangent on your show, that is interesting because these people
[1:33] Speaker 3: are here for you. I go on Get Up, it's like, hey,
[1:35] Speaker 3: you better think of some football.
[1:36] Speaker 1: Brother, I saw First Take's lead story was what direction
[1:41] Speaker 1: were the Phoenix Suns going in?
[1:43] Speaker 3: It's tough, man. First Take is even tougher to get
[1:48] Speaker 3: up to because First Take is built on arguing. It's like,
[1:50] Speaker 3: what are we going to argue on that? Which is
[1:52] Speaker 3: why you either got to argue about some old shit
[1:55] Speaker 3: arguing about some future shit well.
[1:57] Speaker 1: Yeah well like so get up got a lot of
[1:58] Speaker 1: tricks in it right or conceits you know games and
[2:01] Speaker 1: stuff like that that go along with it first take
[2:04] Speaker 1: was like it was we was doing high noon all
[2:06] Speaker 1: we got.
[2:07] Speaker 2: Is us right like like like ain't no oh and
[2:10] Speaker 2: now drop the graphic for.
[2:12] Speaker 1: The snazzy no no no no no it's me and
[2:15] Speaker 1: you partner we figure out how to get.
[2:17] Speaker 3: Through Two of them things. Yes. Fill it up. This
[2:24] Speaker 3: is a test, man. It's for real. It's like the
[2:27] Speaker 3: training level. And they do have a lot of people
[2:30] Speaker 3: in these time of years who don't get a whole
[2:31] Speaker 3: bunch of reps like this. And when you get on like, yeah,
[2:33] Speaker 3: we're going to find out what you're really about right now.
[2:36] Speaker 1: It's like it's like playing 202 full court.
[2:40] Speaker 3: That's a perfect analogy. It's something I did when I
[2:42] Speaker 3: was 10. I don't know how I end up doing
[2:45] Speaker 3: it now, but somehow I'm still doing it.
[2:47] Speaker 1: It makes me breathe it hard. I mean, one time,
[2:50] Speaker 1: because we and Pablo were doing High Noon, we would
[2:53] Speaker 1: do other shows, right? Try to like get the audience
[2:55] Speaker 1: prepared for the fact that we were going to be
[2:57] Speaker 1: doing this. And we did first take. And I remember
[2:59] Speaker 1: the day we did first take, the opening block was
[3:02] Speaker 1: 18 minutes. An entire 30 minute show. it's 22 minutes
[3:08] Speaker 1: of actual content. It was 17 minutes. You got to
[3:11] Speaker 1: be in shape. You got to start going to the
[3:13] Speaker 1: gym if you're going to do first take every day.
[3:17] Speaker 3: It's nice also to have somebody who you're comfortable with,
[3:21] Speaker 3: which helps. It's real tough when they're trying to fill
[3:25] Speaker 3: out the off-season calendar and somebody you ain't never worked
[3:30] Speaker 3: with before and you got to do 18 minutes with
[3:33] Speaker 3: somebody you ain't worked with before and somebody who also...
[3:36] Speaker 3: Sometimes they're not as on it as you.
[3:40] Speaker 1: Oh, I've been there. I've been there with someone whom
[3:44] Speaker 1: I liked a great deal, but we're not supposed to
[3:48] Speaker 1: be in the same band.
[3:50] Speaker 3: It's a tough conversation, especially getting on first take. If
[3:55] Speaker 3: you completely undercut the argument in the first three minutes
[4:00] Speaker 3: and you're just looking at each other, making jokes. Then
[4:06] Speaker 3: you got to make arguments for them. But I could
[4:08] Speaker 3: understand if this is what you were saying. I've been
[4:11] Speaker 3: there before where it's like, I get what you're saying,
[4:13] Speaker 3: but I could understand if you said this, then I
[4:16] Speaker 3: would say that.
[4:17] Speaker 1: So say this. So this is what it comes down
[4:19] Speaker 1: to on those days, right? Because in this context that
[4:24] Speaker 1: we're talking about, typically everybody there is a substitute.
[4:27] Speaker 3: Right.
[4:28] Speaker 1: However, in real life, Substitute teachers, generally speaking, are all
[4:35] Speaker 1: the same. Or, at the very least, are not trying
[4:41] Speaker 1: to parlay these substitute teaching gigs into a real teaching gig, right? Yeah.
[4:47] Speaker 1: Everybody just trying to get that check, press play on
[4:50] Speaker 1: the never ending story. And then we all go on
[4:52] Speaker 1: about our business. Right. But when you the substitute teacher, well,
[4:56] Speaker 1: sometimes they would call me because I was the most
[4:59] Speaker 1: overqualified potential substitute teacher of all time. So all the
[5:03] Speaker 1: shows would be like, hey, man, if you don't have
[5:05] Speaker 1: any days like everybody wanted me to be a substitute teacher,
[5:07] Speaker 1: but they wouldn't give me no shows at that time.
[5:10] Speaker 2: Right.
[5:10] Speaker 1: So I was like, yo, we'd sure love to have you.
[5:12] Speaker 1: And then I look across and be like. Never again.
[5:19] Speaker 3: It do get tough. It do get tough. But they
[5:22] Speaker 3: slimming down over here now, so ain't too many rookies
[5:27] Speaker 3: out here trying to make the roster.
[5:30] Speaker 1: Well, the other problem that you got right now, and
[5:32] Speaker 1: I'm saying this, you're not saying this, I'm saying this,
[5:37] Speaker 1: there's a difference between ESPN.com and ESPN TV, right? ESPN.com
[5:44] Speaker 1: has the great Don Vannata and his story that works
[5:47] Speaker 1: off of my old co-host Pablo Torres' reporting of a
[5:50] Speaker 1: 61-page confidential decision. That confidential word, we're going to get
[5:57] Speaker 1: to that. But it was a decision made basically that
[6:00] Speaker 1: said that there was evidence that the NFL engaged in
[6:04] Speaker 1: collusion to try to lower guaranteed money and contracts. The
[6:08] Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson contract being remember that Lamar Jackson was a
[6:11] Speaker 1: free agent and somehow nobody wanted a quarterback.
[6:13] Speaker 2: Right.
[6:14] Speaker 1: Including the Atlanta fucking Falcons who gave one legged Kirk
[6:17] Speaker 1: Cousins 40 million dollars only to draft his replacement with
[6:21] Speaker 1: a project. But they didn't want Lamar Jackson.
[6:24] Speaker 3: OK, OK.
[6:26] Speaker 1: Gotcha.
[6:27] Speaker 3: Right.
[6:28] Speaker 1: But this this collusion settlement was there and it was
[6:31] Speaker 1: in favor of the players, though there seemed to be
[6:34] Speaker 1: pretty strong evidence. The owners, excuse me, is in favor
[6:36] Speaker 1: of the owners. The ultimate decision was in favor of
[6:38] Speaker 1: the owners. But for whatever reason, both sides decided to
[6:44] Speaker 1: keep the agreement from the players. Right. So like they
[6:48] Speaker 1: got news of what happened, but the actual paperwork they
[6:51] Speaker 1: decided to keep away from the players. And Don put
[6:56] Speaker 1: some reporting out about this yesterday, along with a Wednesday.
[6:59] Speaker 3: Right.
[6:59] Speaker 1: Let me give it days.
[7:00] Speaker 3: Right.
[7:00] Speaker 1: According to reporting Thursday. That said that the head of
[7:06] Speaker 1: the NFL Players Association, who and you correct me if
[7:10] Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but the players decided after D. Smith's time
[7:13] Speaker 1: was up that they wanted a guy with more corporate ties. Well,
[7:17] Speaker 1: they got one. And his name is Lloyd Howell. I
[7:19] Speaker 1: have met him. He seems like a nice enough fellow.
[7:21] Speaker 1: He also works as a consultant for the Carlisle Group,
[7:24] Speaker 1: which is a private equity group that is looking in
[7:26] Speaker 1: to investing in NFL teams. And somehow he does both
[7:31] Speaker 1: of these jobs, which seems like a staggering conflict of interest.
[7:35] Speaker 1: But he continues to do both of these jobs. And
[7:39] Speaker 1: I do believe there was a time where this may
[7:41] Speaker 1: have been closer to red letter news on television. But
[7:44] Speaker 1: that's not what we're doing on television anymore. Like we
[7:48] Speaker 1: scrape in the bowl for content. It's right here. This
[7:52] Speaker 1: story is staggering. But. Just butt.
[7:59] Speaker 3: Dominic. Okay. I thought that was a pregnant pause.
[8:04] Speaker 1: Just the butt. Just the big old butt. So I'm
[8:06] Speaker 1: leaving you. You know what I'm saying? That's all it is. Dominic,
[8:09] Speaker 1: you work with the union. You've worked with the NBA player. NBPA.
[8:14] Speaker 1: It's not the NBAPA. It's the NBPA. I don't even
[8:19] Speaker 1: know where to begin with my question.
[8:21] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[8:21] Speaker 3: I mean, so I was president of the NFL Players Association.
[8:25] Speaker 3: And like, When I left that or my term ran out,
[8:30] Speaker 3: it's an active player's role. My term ran out. I
[8:33] Speaker 3: was always conscious of what it was like because I
[8:36] Speaker 3: was part of leadership. I was on executive committee in
[8:39] Speaker 3: my second year in the league. So I was either
[8:42] Speaker 3: on executive committee, which is essentially like 10 vice presidents
[8:45] Speaker 3: or the president of the union for more than half
[8:48] Speaker 3: of my career. And so I was heavily involved in
[8:50] Speaker 3: all of that stuff and then went on to continue
[8:53] Speaker 3: doing union work afterwards with the basketball union. And one
[8:56] Speaker 3: thing I always was aware of was how frustrating it
[9:00] Speaker 3: was when outsiders who weren't in the union would like
[9:04] Speaker 3: make comments. So I've always been really conscious of that.
[9:08] Speaker 3: And like never, even through DeMorris's term and Gene Upshaw,
[9:12] Speaker 3: when he was there, I had obviously disagreements when I
[9:15] Speaker 3: worked with both of them and disagreements, things that happened afterwards. And,
[9:19] Speaker 3: I never really talk about it because it's like, this
[9:22] Speaker 3: is the players union, the active players, they got to
[9:24] Speaker 3: take control. And I don't think it really helps if I,
[9:29] Speaker 3: a former president is like, and making my feelings felt
[9:33] Speaker 3: about it. But man, I can't, I can't like, this is,
[9:38] Speaker 3: it's tough, man. It's tough to listen and watch this
[9:40] Speaker 3: because you see different decisions being made that, that, And again,
[9:46] Speaker 3: because of my spot in my relationships, like I hear
[9:49] Speaker 3: about stuff that doesn't get out. And so I shut
[9:51] Speaker 3: my mouth and whatever, like as long as the right
[9:54] Speaker 3: players know if they're going to take action, they're going
[9:56] Speaker 3: to take action. And I've seen players take over the U.
[10:00] Speaker 3: and take lots of action like when Gene died a
[10:03] Speaker 3: few players had to step in to ensure that the
[10:06] Speaker 3: election process was fair like the players aren't afraid they
[10:09] Speaker 3: aren't dumb they aren't lazy and so I don't want
[10:12] Speaker 3: to assume that they are by feeling like they need
[10:15] Speaker 3: me to come out and say something so I suspect
[10:19] Speaker 3: that this is going to lead to the players doing
[10:21] Speaker 3: something about the, these sorts of things, because these, these
[10:24] Speaker 3: allegations are not only allegations, like the confidentiality like this,
[10:30] Speaker 3: these findings are staggering, man. And union, the thing about
[10:37] Speaker 3: unions is man, it's, it's a different, it's different. It's
[10:41] Speaker 3: a different mindset and business experience is one thing. Union
[10:44] Speaker 3: experience is another. And, it's one of those things that
[10:48] Speaker 3: require a different level of commitment and passion. It's not
[10:52] Speaker 3: just like, I want to do a good job. It just,
[10:56] Speaker 3: it's also like, I know my place and I work
[11:00] Speaker 3: for them and everything that I do should be in
[11:01] Speaker 3: service of the members. And that's part of it. So anyway,
[11:07] Speaker 3: I don't want to get on a high horse and soapboxy,
[11:09] Speaker 3: but like there are plenty of decisions that were made
[11:11] Speaker 3: that seemed to like, take some power away from the players,
[11:15] Speaker 3: which leads us to this situation where there are things
[11:17] Speaker 3: like this that could be happening that just drive me crazy.
[11:22] Speaker 3: And then the Lloyd stuff is like, prior to him
[11:24] Speaker 3: even being hired, it's like, the stuff that's on his resume, man, like,
[11:33] Speaker 3: it should give you pause before you commit to that,
[11:38] Speaker 3: as if there ain't nobody else out there on Earth
[11:41] Speaker 3: that's qualified.
[11:42] Speaker 1: That is not a union man. Like, I think the
[11:44] Speaker 1: players I understood the logic that you needed somebody who
[11:47] Speaker 1: knew a little bit like was more of a business person. Right. D.
[11:50] Speaker 1: Smith was a U.S. attorney and he's got a book
[11:54] Speaker 1: coming out. I think we're going to have him on
[11:56] Speaker 1: to talk about that book once I get a chance
[11:57] Speaker 1: to read it. But he was a U.S. attorney.
[12:00] Speaker 3: Right.
[12:00] Speaker 1: But to me and look, that is while that is
[12:03] Speaker 1: not a business job, that is a job that comes one,
[12:06] Speaker 1: I think, with the ego of a U.S. attorney. And
[12:09] Speaker 1: I don't mean that negatively, but U.S. attorneys run shit
[12:12] Speaker 1: in their world. Right. But also that's a wheeling and
[12:15] Speaker 1: dealing sort of position. And you've got to know the
[12:17] Speaker 1: politics and everything else. And he is not flawless, certainly.
[12:20] Speaker 1: But I think that is a profile that I think
[12:22] Speaker 1: is in line with being somebody to run a union.
[12:27] Speaker 1: Lloyd is not a union man from meeting him. I
[12:31] Speaker 1: met him during the writer's strike, the WGA strike a
[12:35] Speaker 1: couple of summers ago. And I spoke before Picket Line,
[12:37] Speaker 1: which is a very interesting experience because it gave me
[12:40] Speaker 1: the juxtaposition between Lloyd and Marty, Marty Walsh, who is
[12:44] Speaker 1: now the head of the NHL Players Association. He had
[12:48] Speaker 1: previously been the mayor of Boston and was the secretary
[12:51] Speaker 1: of labor under Joe Biden. And Marty, because he's very
[12:54] Speaker 1: much a Marty guy. he's very he's very bossed and
[12:57] Speaker 1: he is a mighty and mighty oh man i think
[13:02] Speaker 1: i had to talk after.
[13:03] Speaker 2: Mighty yo yo yo that was like going.
[13:08] Speaker 1: On after dmx that's what you're talking about like i
[13:13] Speaker 1: don't even know what to say you know what i'm
[13:15] Speaker 1: saying um That was a union man. You kind of
[13:19] Speaker 1: hear it in the spirit of what it is. And
[13:20] Speaker 1: a union man is typically a fighting man. The NFL
[13:23] Speaker 1: union to me is interesting for a couple of reasons. One,
[13:26] Speaker 1: all these sports unions are interesting because their unions are
[13:28] Speaker 1: rich people.
[13:29] Speaker 3: Right.
[13:30] Speaker 1: Or at the very least, well-paid people. I think we'll
[13:32] Speaker 1: put it that way, which means you don't get that
[13:34] Speaker 1: much sympathy. I mean, this country has just turned away
[13:36] Speaker 1: from organized labor completely, but is the limited amount of
[13:38] Speaker 1: sympathy that you get from the people. And like the
[13:42] Speaker 1: compromise deal isn't necessarily that bad. Right. But the NFL
[13:48] Speaker 1: players are interesting because I don't remember the exact quote.
[13:51] Speaker 1: I believe, Dominic, you will know what I'm talking about.
[13:53] Speaker 1: But it's to paraphrase Gene Upshaw. I fought one time
[13:57] Speaker 1: and I went up that hill and I turned around
[13:59] Speaker 1: and I was by myself. And Upshaw concluded then that
[14:03] Speaker 1: the game was not to fight as much as the
[14:05] Speaker 1: game was just to get as much money for his
[14:08] Speaker 1: guys as he could possibly get. The baseball union was
[14:11] Speaker 1: historically the fighting union. And they won every time. They
[14:16] Speaker 1: stood tall. They had their guys always. And they kept winning.
[14:19] Speaker 1: They kept winning. And then everything went crazy about 20
[14:22] Speaker 1: years ago because of the steroid stuff. At which point,
[14:25] Speaker 1: the players kind of had to make some compromises because
[14:27] Speaker 1: the fight was making them look bad. And I think
[14:30] Speaker 1: that that led to now where the owners stay colluding
[14:33] Speaker 1: on them, stay keeping their money low, everything else. And
[14:37] Speaker 1: so now for the NFL players... You decide to get
[14:40] Speaker 1: a guy to help you do business, but you forget.
[14:42] Speaker 1: And I feel like this paperwork, you know, once we,
[14:45] Speaker 1: you know, everybody, I mean, it's up there. Pablo is
[14:47] Speaker 1: definitely uploading. You can check it out. This paperwork shows, man,
[14:50] Speaker 1: a union is still about the fight. Like it is
[14:52] Speaker 1: an antagonistic relationship between labor and management at all times.
[14:58] Speaker 1: You are never, ever partners. Sorry. Would love for it
[15:02] Speaker 1: to be the case, but you're not.
[15:04] Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think that there are some times that,
[15:09] Speaker 3: The collaboration is important. Like it's obviously there. The thing
[15:14] Speaker 3: about these partners in pro sports is there are no
[15:17] Speaker 3: other partners. Like you're going to have to work together
[15:19] Speaker 3: at some point, but no one's ever going to give
[15:21] Speaker 3: you anything.
[15:22] Speaker 1: And I.
[15:25] Speaker 3: Think the power from anybody who's watched me or listened
[15:28] Speaker 3: to me knows that like the power in the union
[15:30] Speaker 3: comes from the solidarity. And this is frankly a fundamental
[15:33] Speaker 3: lesson in life is nothing is free. the bigger thing
[15:36] Speaker 3: that you want is going to cost you more and more,
[15:39] Speaker 3: and it may not cost you money. It may cost
[15:41] Speaker 3: you in sacrifice and pain. And that was the frustrating part.
[15:46] Speaker 3: One of the more challenging parts about being a union
[15:49] Speaker 3: leader is when your name, you are the union leader. It's, it's,
[15:54] Speaker 3: it's possible that you can lose sight of your role
[15:58] Speaker 3: as an employee, like your executive director, whatever your president,
[16:02] Speaker 3: whatever your executive committee, whatever. Like it's an upside down pyramid.
[16:06] Speaker 3: You work for everyone else and showing up and telling
[16:09] Speaker 3: people what you're going to do or trying to find
[16:11] Speaker 3: the easiest route. Like, no, you work for them. And
[16:14] Speaker 3: it's not only because like fundamentally that's who your, who
[16:17] Speaker 3: your boss is. It's also because that's where your power
[16:20] Speaker 3: comes from. It works to your advantage. If for some
[16:24] Speaker 3: reason you've created a structure where they feel like, which
[16:27] Speaker 3: is part of the challenge when you hire somebody from
[16:30] Speaker 3: the outside and and from an entirely different world is
[16:33] Speaker 3: you're hiring them because you're like, he know what he doing.
[16:36] Speaker 3: He can take care of it. And when you hire
[16:38] Speaker 3: someone like that, he knows what he can, he's doing,
[16:41] Speaker 3: he can take care of it. And you send them
[16:42] Speaker 3: off to do it. When shit gets tough. And I'm
[16:45] Speaker 3: not talking about Lloyd specifically, anyone, when shit gets tough,
[16:49] Speaker 3: you're still fundamentally going to need that core of power
[16:52] Speaker 3: being solidarity. And the guys like it's human nature. That
[16:57] Speaker 3: ain't my plan. That ain't what I want. And then
[16:59] Speaker 3: they like, they disperse like, that's, I think that's like the,
[17:04] Speaker 3: the downfall of any union or the challenge of any
[17:06] Speaker 3: union is forgetting that the executive director and the, and
[17:11] Speaker 3: the president and anyone leadership, like it's based on solidarity.
[17:16] Speaker 3: It is based on a willingness to sacrifice. And that's,
[17:20] Speaker 3: there's no other way around it. There's no other way
[17:22] Speaker 3: to create real leverage other than that. And once you
[17:24] Speaker 3: lose that is you're in a tough spot and it
[17:27] Speaker 3: takes a while to rebuild, like to your point, the,
[17:30] Speaker 3: baseball union like that was built on and the dynamics
[17:32] Speaker 3: are different in different sports but that was built on
[17:35] Speaker 3: an understanding that this is the culture of the place
[17:37] Speaker 3: this is your place and you have to sacrifice for
[17:40] Speaker 3: it it's something that is hard to continue to to
[17:44] Speaker 3: perpetuate when you have constant turnover and the dynamics around
[17:48] Speaker 3: the situation change it's just not an easy thing to
[17:50] Speaker 3: do it's a hard job and i think.
[17:53] Speaker 1: We've talked about some of this before there's a couple
[17:55] Speaker 1: of levels that make football i think very particular number
[17:59] Speaker 1: one It's like four different unions in one union.
[18:04] Speaker 3: Right.
[18:05] Speaker 1: There are superstar quarterbacks. They are their own world. There
[18:09] Speaker 1: are the other quarterbacks. They are their own world. There
[18:14] Speaker 1: are superstar to star caliber players that are their world.
[18:19] Speaker 1: And then it's the biggest group, which is the rest
[18:21] Speaker 1: of y'all. You know, and they all have wildly divergent interests.
[18:26] Speaker 1: You have a salary cap that's in place. But the
[18:28] Speaker 1: quarterbacks are, again, playing a completely different game in terms
[18:31] Speaker 1: of how much money they can wind up getting. And
[18:33] Speaker 1: so it's hard to get. I mean, basketball has the
[18:35] Speaker 1: same issues where the superstars are playing a completely different
[18:38] Speaker 1: game than everybody else and trying to find some level
[18:41] Speaker 1: of consensus where, you know, among them becomes incredibly difficult.
[18:45] Speaker 1: The thing that I think is interesting about football, and
[18:47] Speaker 1: I'm curious your thought about this. Football players are conditioned
[18:51] Speaker 1: from the very beginning to sacrifice for the team. But
[18:56] Speaker 1: the team, while it is the roster itself, really goes
[19:00] Speaker 1: broader to whatever franchise it is that you're representing, whether
[19:03] Speaker 1: it be your school, your little AAU program. You know,
[19:06] Speaker 1: it's not AAU, obviously, but, you know, your program, whatever
[19:09] Speaker 1: it is. But that is to whom you sacrifice or
[19:14] Speaker 1: for whom you sacrifice is that group, which doesn't leave
[19:18] Speaker 1: a lot of room to go sacrifice for the other group.
[19:21] Speaker 2: Right.
[19:21] Speaker 1: It's like the sacrifice that you make for the franchise.
[19:24] Speaker 1: Now you got to go get your money. because you've
[19:27] Speaker 1: made this sacrifice to the franchise. And now that actually
[19:30] Speaker 1: puts you at odds with the people with whom you
[19:33] Speaker 1: often sacrifice in the name of this other thing to
[19:36] Speaker 1: where y'all don't have the capacity or willingness in many
[19:39] Speaker 1: cases to sacrifice for themselves.
[19:42] Speaker 3: This is one of the challenges is the the story
[19:47] Speaker 3: around professional football is I want to make it to
[19:50] Speaker 3: the NFL. It's such a powerful story that guys are
[19:54] Speaker 3: excited when they get drafted. And I know that doesn't
[19:58] Speaker 3: it's it's we all accept it. I know it doesn't
[20:01] Speaker 3: sound crazy to you, but the idea that you are
[20:04] Speaker 3: celebrating that you have a freedom that's afforded to everyone else,
[20:10] Speaker 3: you are celebrating that you do not have that. And
[20:13] Speaker 3: so it's deeply ingrained that guys want to, and I'm
[20:18] Speaker 3: one of these guys. I was one of these guys.
[20:20] Speaker 3: I want to get drafted. I want to play in
[20:22] Speaker 3: the NFL. It's not I want to belong to the union.
[20:25] Speaker 3: But all the cool shit about playing in the NFL
[20:28] Speaker 3: is a result of the union. That's the thing that
[20:32] Speaker 3: is harder to remind guys because it's about control of
[20:38] Speaker 3: the story, control of the narrative, control of media and influence.
[20:40] Speaker 3: It's like, I want to be a part of the
[20:43] Speaker 3: organization that Gene Upshaw led. I want to have access
[20:49] Speaker 3: to millions of dollars. You know why that is possible?
[20:52] Speaker 3: It's because a lot of sacrifice that other people made.
[20:55] Speaker 3: And it's just like, you are more proud to be
[20:56] Speaker 3: a part of the Vikings than you are to be
[20:58] Speaker 3: a part of of the union and that's a problem
[21:01] Speaker 3: in like messaging that's a problem in communicate that's just
[21:05] Speaker 3: a it's a hard thing to overcome because then you're
[21:08] Speaker 3: like hey but no you know what they don't really
[21:11] Speaker 3: want you to have these things the reason why you
[21:13] Speaker 3: have it is over here this is what you want
[21:15] Speaker 3: to be a part of this is your team and
[21:17] Speaker 3: it's tough to you don't you can't just hit a
[21:19] Speaker 3: switch on that it's hard to rebuild.
[21:22] Speaker 1: Yeah i don't feel like any other sport does the
[21:26] Speaker 1: team And normally no other sport. I don't feel like
[21:30] Speaker 1: the team pretends to love you quite like they pretend
[21:33] Speaker 1: in football. And I guess it's necessary to an extent.
[21:35] Speaker 2: Right.
[21:36] Speaker 1: So, for example, when you talk about there being a
[21:38] Speaker 1: prayer before a NASCAR race. Yes. Part of that is
[21:43] Speaker 1: Southern culture and politics. The other part is we've got
[21:46] Speaker 1: to be going 200 miles an hour. I would like
[21:50] Speaker 1: to pray. I would like you to pray for me.
[21:53] Speaker 1: We all kind of need it, right? It's a little different.
[21:56] Speaker 1: I imagine that you need to feel some kind of
[21:59] Speaker 1: affection in what it is that you're asking people to
[22:02] Speaker 1: go out here and do it, even if they say
[22:04] Speaker 1: they want to do it. When you're asking them to
[22:06] Speaker 1: do it when they hurt, right? When you're asking them
[22:08] Speaker 1: to do it at the expense of all these other things,
[22:10] Speaker 1: you got to have this dynamic and feeling of love.
[22:12] Speaker 1: Like there's military culture that's involved in this. There's religious
[22:15] Speaker 1: culture that's involved in this. You can't separate how all
[22:17] Speaker 1: of these things are kind of put together in one
[22:20] Speaker 1: place that creates this sort of loyalty or this idea
[22:22] Speaker 1: that individualism is not appropriate. But we're not even really
[22:26] Speaker 1: talking about individualism. We're still talking about group dynamics. We're
[22:30] Speaker 1: still talking about the squad. We're just talking about who
[22:32] Speaker 1: is your master, them or yourselves, right?
[22:35] Speaker 3: And another dynamic I would throw in there is the
[22:37] Speaker 3: complexity of football. It's not a complicated game, but it's complex.
[22:41] Speaker 3: And when you look at other sports, there's basketball, everybody's
[22:46] Speaker 3: doing the same thing. Soccer, everyone's doing the same thing. Baseball,
[22:49] Speaker 3: you're out there by yourself. The complexity of football is
[22:51] Speaker 3: such that I could play in the NFL and Jeff
[22:55] Speaker 3: Saturday can play in the NFL. And we are reliant
[22:58] Speaker 3: on each other. You're not reliant on... people in other sports,
[23:01] Speaker 3: the way that you are in football. And it's also
[23:05] Speaker 3: complicated by the fact that we aren't together that often.
[23:08] Speaker 3: So like you're in your meeting room, I'm in my
[23:11] Speaker 3: meeting room, but we know that I got your back
[23:14] Speaker 3: and you got mine. And that, that level of, because
[23:16] Speaker 3: the jobs are so different, I've had bad games that
[23:19] Speaker 3: were a result of my safety doing the wrong thing.
[23:22] Speaker 3: I've had great games that was a result of my
[23:24] Speaker 3: safety doing the right thing. I've had terrible games because
[23:27] Speaker 3: we couldn't get no pressure and I'm covering for four seconds.
[23:30] Speaker 3: I had good games because Suggs won tip the ball.
[23:33] Speaker 3: Give me a pick. Like that type of reliance is
[23:36] Speaker 3: not something that you have from down to down or
[23:38] Speaker 3: you have from play to play or game to game
[23:40] Speaker 3: in any other sport. It's like, You know what? LeBron nice, man.
[23:44] Speaker 3: We know he can. We're not rebounding well. He can
[23:47] Speaker 3: go get those rebounds. I can't block for you. I
[23:50] Speaker 3: just can't. It ain't going to happen. I can't rush
[23:52] Speaker 3: the passer. And I do think that that adds to
[23:54] Speaker 3: like these are my guys. These are my people. And
[23:57] Speaker 3: you don't have that same dynamic anywhere else. Like the
[24:00] Speaker 3: communication and the connection just is hard to replicate.
[24:05] Speaker 1: And I think another dynamic I'm curious what you think
[24:07] Speaker 1: about is– The union is there in large part to
[24:14] Speaker 1: help guys get as much money as they can. Right.
[24:17] Speaker 1: But what guys are really afraid of is losing money.
[24:21] Speaker 3: Right.
[24:21] Speaker 1: And so a word stoppage. I talked to when I
[24:25] Speaker 1: was talking to the guys in 2020 about the the
[24:29] Speaker 1: United movement with the college players. We talked about this
[24:31] Speaker 1: on your show. And I remember Andrew Cooper gave me
[24:33] Speaker 1: a great quote. He was like, one thing he learned is.
[24:36] Speaker 1: You can't really make it happen without a work stoppage.
[24:41] Speaker 1: You've got to be willing to go out there and
[24:43] Speaker 1: do a work stoppage. And 1987 really messed up the
[24:47] Speaker 1: possibility of a work stoppage for the players because they
[24:49] Speaker 1: was out there going in front of Home Depot. getting
[24:52] Speaker 1: them some dudes, putting them in football suits and people
[24:55] Speaker 1: paid and people watched. And then you had guys like,
[24:59] Speaker 1: like actual quarterbacks or whatever, you know, going out there
[25:02] Speaker 1: and playing with them like that, that Trump card. And
[25:06] Speaker 1: I don't think that would work now, by the way.
[25:08] Speaker 1: I think it might work for a week, but I.
[25:10] Speaker 3: Don't, we saw a replacement reps. We saw how that went.
[25:13] Speaker 2: I forgot about the replacement reps.
[25:16] Speaker 3: They tried that shit with them. I was like, nah,
[25:18] Speaker 3: we ain't gonna be able to do that. And they're
[25:20] Speaker 3: confused in the back of the end zone. Just flabbergasted
[25:24] Speaker 3: by a football play.
[25:25] Speaker 2: I can't believe they thought, the regular refs ain't that
[25:28] Speaker 2: good already.
[25:30] Speaker 3: It's like, let's get the second ones.
[25:33] Speaker 1: Like, the reason why semi-pro football, and I'm calling the
[25:37] Speaker 1: new USFL, I'm calling the XFL, all of those, they
[25:41] Speaker 1: won't work because there are not enough quarterbacks to go around.
[25:44] Speaker 3: Right?
[25:44] Speaker 1: Like, you see what happens in an NFL game when
[25:46] Speaker 1: you go to any backup. You see what it is.
[25:49] Speaker 1: These cats can't even get those jobs.
[25:54] Speaker 3: I think you're right. Your point about losing money is
[25:58] Speaker 3: a big one because striking when you're not going to
[26:02] Speaker 3: make $ 30, 000 is different than striking when you're going to
[26:05] Speaker 3: miss out on $ 15 million. I understand that. That makes sense.
[26:10] Speaker 3: The other thing that people who haven't been in unions
[26:13] Speaker 3: misunderstand is they think the job of leading a union
[26:16] Speaker 3: or being a part of the union, particularly leading it,
[26:19] Speaker 3: is about interim negotiations. It's like, who's the best negotiator?
[26:23] Speaker 3: Negotiations is not like what you see in the movies.
[26:25] Speaker 3: It's not like capably playing hardball or doing some tricky
[26:31] Speaker 3: play with words to dupe somebody. Negotiations is years ahead
[26:36] Speaker 3: of time. It's creating leverage and power. And that leverage
[26:39] Speaker 3: and power takes time to create and requires connection. And
[26:44] Speaker 3: I think that's why politicians, I think probably when they
[26:48] Speaker 3: did the search for Lloyd's replacement, they called and asked
[26:52] Speaker 3: me if I had recommendations for the types of people
[26:55] Speaker 3: to look for outside of athletes. I was like, yeah,
[26:58] Speaker 3: like politicians are the type of people that pound the
[27:02] Speaker 3: pavement and are constantly campaigning. Like you got to go
[27:05] Speaker 3: to see these guys. You got to be accessible to
[27:07] Speaker 3: these guys and you have to be responsive to them.
[27:09] Speaker 3: And it has to be over decades or at least years.
[27:14] Speaker 3: before they feel like this is mine. And then when
[27:18] Speaker 3: they feel like this is mine, you then engender the
[27:21] Speaker 3: type of commitment that we talking about, where a guy
[27:25] Speaker 3: will tear a damn ligament and continue playing. Like it's
[27:29] Speaker 3: in these guys. Obviously, they're capable of it. They demonstrate
[27:32] Speaker 3: it for free. Frankly, like it's not going to change
[27:36] Speaker 3: the money that they're making. They demonstrate it week in
[27:39] Speaker 3: and week out. they just don't feel that connection to
[27:42] Speaker 3: the union, which is sad because there was a time
[27:46] Speaker 3: when it was stronger. Maybe there was never a time
[27:48] Speaker 3: when it was, when it was like it was before
[27:51] Speaker 3: they had, when the reserve clause was around and before
[27:54] Speaker 3: they had free agency, free agency changed some things, but
[27:57] Speaker 3: it was a lot stronger at one point. And it's
[28:00] Speaker 3: obviously it's depressing for someone who like, I've never cared
[28:02] Speaker 3: about anything other than playing football in unions, like legitimately
[28:07] Speaker 3: deep in my heart. And it's, It makes me sick, man.
[28:11] Speaker 3: It makes me sick to see that we're in a
[28:13] Speaker 3: situation where we got, right now, three stories in a
[28:19] Speaker 3: matter of a couple months. That's just, frankly, embarrassing.
[28:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm going to make one point before we
[28:25] Speaker 1: go on this break that I think people need to
[28:27] Speaker 1: remember about the ability to stand tall in those moments.
[28:31] Speaker 1: Some significant portion of the league, I don't think, it
[28:34] Speaker 1: might be 50%, but that feels a little high, man,
[28:36] Speaker 1: but a lot of, a big part of this league,
[28:39] Speaker 1: a plurality of it is making the medal. And let's
[28:42] Speaker 1: call it, I don't know what the minimum is now,
[28:43] Speaker 1: but let's just throw it out there and call it $ 600, 000.
[28:47] Speaker 1: $ 600, 000 a year is a lot of money if you've
[28:50] Speaker 1: been making money and get to the point of that.
[28:53] Speaker 1: But if you are 24 years old, 25 years old,
[28:56] Speaker 1: and you've just been making this a couple of years,
[28:58] Speaker 1: I know what you're thinking. Well, you can stack up your... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, whatever. Yeah, yeah,
[29:02] Speaker 1: you're right. You're right. Nobody's saying you're wrong, right? You
[29:04] Speaker 1: can stack and be ready for this. But no, that's
[29:06] Speaker 1: not how it goes.
[29:07] Speaker 3: Like.
[29:07] Speaker 1: Cats can't always stand tall, no telling how many bills
[29:10] Speaker 1: they paying for other people. We know what the obligations are,
[29:13] Speaker 1: everything else. So it's a it's a tough game, but
[29:15] Speaker 1: it is a bad look right now for the association.
[29:18] Speaker 1: And we'll be back to talk about things that are
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[33:12] Speaker 1: uh dominic i do want to talk about this right
[33:14] Speaker 1: fast because we're in that time of year this happens
[33:16] Speaker 1: every year where the new round of nba extensions come
[33:20] Speaker 1: and people start seeing those giant numbers and they can't
[33:23] Speaker 1: believe that for example devin booker can get 75 million
[33:27] Speaker 1: dollars or something like that in a season they can't
[33:30] Speaker 1: believe that chet holmgren gets the five-year damn near 250
[33:34] Speaker 1: million dollar extension everybody gets so shocked every single time
[33:39] Speaker 1: and they're not doing it out loud this time but
[33:42] Speaker 1: nobody's madder than football.
[33:45] Speaker 3: That is that's a traditional situation man we always get
[33:50] Speaker 3: mad because we see their numbers and they're fully guaranteed
[33:55] Speaker 3: and they are so enormous and we like but y'all
[33:58] Speaker 3: like our game more why we don't got those numbers
[34:02] Speaker 3: there's a number of dynamics that impact the way that
[34:05] Speaker 3: it happens but yeah they ain't doing it yet but
[34:07] Speaker 3: they gonna do it they deserve to go ahead.
[34:09] Speaker 2: Well I mean look it's the reason why they can
[34:11] Speaker 2: do that because I just told you they'll go to
[34:13] Speaker 2: Home Depot.
[34:14] Speaker 1: And put some dudes in some stealer suits and they'll
[34:17] Speaker 1: treat them like he Jack Lambert it's.
[34:19] Speaker 2: Gonna be the same damn thing.
[34:22] Speaker 1: Like it is the dynamics of it are so fascinating
[34:25] Speaker 1: though right because it's 15 guys on a roster That's
[34:30] Speaker 1: a major part of it. I think the part that
[34:32] Speaker 1: is undersold in this discussion, they play 82 games. That's
[34:38] Speaker 1: 82 opportunities to sell tickets, right? That's 82 opportunities to
[34:43] Speaker 1: be on television. And yes, football has bigger stadiums and
[34:47] Speaker 1: they have bigger numbers when they go. But the reason
[34:49] Speaker 1: baseball players make all this money is They sell 162
[34:53] Speaker 1: episodes per team of their television show, right? That's where
[34:58] Speaker 1: it winds up going. That being said, Devin Booker's getting
[35:03] Speaker 1: $ 75 million a year. You wonder why LeBron ain't taking
[35:07] Speaker 1: a penny less than the max every time out.
[35:10] Speaker 3: Your television show analogy, it's a perfect one because I
[35:14] Speaker 3: would say that their television show also requires stars. in
[35:20] Speaker 3: a way that like professional football is closer to a
[35:24] Speaker 3: reality show. And that is like, all right, we are
[35:28] Speaker 3: here for the competition. Whereas a lot of times in basketball,
[35:33] Speaker 3: we hear, I mean, you see it reflected in the
[35:35] Speaker 3: way that the ratings are tied to the games. Like
[35:38] Speaker 3: we will watch anybody play football. We'll watch the bad
[35:42] Speaker 3: teams play. They put up a playoff level numbers for
[35:45] Speaker 3: other sports to watch two bad teams play. And basketball,
[35:48] Speaker 3: it's not like that at all. It's like, no, ain't
[35:51] Speaker 3: nobody even going to watch it if you put some garbage.
[35:53] Speaker 3: But I think the football players still have an argument
[35:58] Speaker 3: because the revenue generally dwarfs that. Understanding all that doesn't matter.
[36:04] Speaker 3: It's like what you can leverage for. And the baseball
[36:07] Speaker 3: conversation is always an interesting one because it's, I guess,
[36:09] Speaker 3: the last remaining completely uncapped sport. But what's happened with
[36:13] Speaker 3: baseball seems like We're not going in a direction where
[36:18] Speaker 3: more revenue is going to the players.
[36:20] Speaker 1: No, it's been dropping.
[36:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[36:22] Speaker 3: So while we keep getting excited about how huge these
[36:25] Speaker 3: contracts are, they're getting it off somebody's ass. The percentage
[36:29] Speaker 3: of revenue is going down, going to the players.
[36:33] Speaker 1: Well, the trade of an uncapped sport is an unfloored sport.
[36:36] Speaker 3: Yep.
[36:37] Speaker 1: And that is the one thing that the union of
[36:39] Speaker 1: football in particular has done a great job on is
[36:42] Speaker 1: raising the floor. Right now, granted, teams will consistently go
[36:47] Speaker 1: under the floor. But once you do, you then have
[36:49] Speaker 1: to write a check in that money. The teams have
[36:51] Speaker 1: the right checks and then that money gets dispersed to
[36:53] Speaker 1: the players. But yeah, that's the problem with baseball. They'd
[36:56] Speaker 1: be over there cheating, boy. Who would have owners be
[36:59] Speaker 1: over there cheating? And the people don't care because they
[37:03] Speaker 1: like you getting paid to play a kid's game. And look,
[37:08] Speaker 1: you might say baseball is a kid's game. That's fine.
[37:11] Speaker 1: You want to say basketball is a kid's game. That's fine.
[37:16] Speaker 1: But ain't nobody confused in playing football with throwing jacks.
[37:20] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Ain't nobody talking about football
[37:22] Speaker 1: like it's hopscotch. Who the fuck came up with that
[37:25] Speaker 1: stupid shit in the first place? You get paid to
[37:27] Speaker 1: play a kid's game. I tell you who came up
[37:29] Speaker 1: with that. Haters. Haters is who came up with that.
[37:34] Speaker 3: And who cares what you get paid to do, whether
[37:37] Speaker 3: it's a kid's game or not. You like it. It's valuable.
[37:41] Speaker 3: I'm valuable. Give me my money. Call it what you
[37:43] Speaker 3: want to call it. That to me is disrespectful. And
[37:48] Speaker 3: just because you enjoy your job doesn't mean that you
[37:50] Speaker 3: shouldn't get fairly compensated for it. But I think the
[37:54] Speaker 3: baseball union is headed for, or at least because they
[37:57] Speaker 3: can play the long game, the owners, I think they
[38:00] Speaker 3: probably are like trying to create a divide. and trying
[38:04] Speaker 3: to fracture the union and eventually institute a salary cap
[38:09] Speaker 3: because the divide that they're creating now to the guys
[38:12] Speaker 3: at the bottom is getting bigger and bigger with the
[38:15] Speaker 3: bigger contracts. And then those guys are cycling out at
[38:17] Speaker 3: some point, the guys at the bottom are going to
[38:20] Speaker 3: be like, Hey, Give us a damn floor. And then
[38:23] Speaker 3: the owner's going to be like, oh, you want a floor,
[38:25] Speaker 3: do you? If you got a floor, you know what
[38:30] Speaker 3: you need above that.
[38:31] Speaker 4: Floor, right?
[38:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like, who said that?
[38:32] Speaker 3: Who said that?
[38:33] Speaker 1: Which one of y'all said that?
[38:34] Speaker 3: Right here? Right here?
[38:35] Speaker 1: Stand up, young man. What was your name? That was
[38:38] Speaker 1: a great idea. Who else thinks that's a great idea?
[38:41] Speaker 1: And then you look around, there's a bunch.
[38:43] Speaker 3: Of guys who are right next to him like, yeah,
[38:46] Speaker 3: these numbers ain't right. But ultimately.
[38:48] Speaker 1: And then Shohei Ohtani back there like, hey, I speak English, okay?
[38:54] Speaker 3: All of a sudden. I don't need no interpreter.
[38:56] Speaker 1: He's going to be on that motherfucking side of like J.P. Morgan.
[39:00] Speaker 1: Like E.F.
[39:01] Speaker 3: Hutton.
[39:01] Speaker 1: But that's where the lottery.
[39:05] Speaker 3: the lottery mindset prevails you know it's like everybody think
[39:09] Speaker 3: they're gonna hit the lottery that's because no one i
[39:13] Speaker 3: while we did um raise the floor no one in
[39:17] Speaker 3: those conversations is raising the floor for themselves you're like
[39:21] Speaker 3: let me get this floor for these guys man because
[39:24] Speaker 3: i would be nice i'm gonna hit that i'm gonna
[39:26] Speaker 3: hit that contract nobody is considering for them for themselves
[39:29] Speaker 3: so that's another challenge for the future that that both
[39:34] Speaker 3: sides want to create.
[39:35] Speaker 1: What a time man like i didn't i just find
[39:37] Speaker 1: myself all the way around on the what a time
[39:41] Speaker 1: i want to throw something out here that i just
[39:43] Speaker 1: saw here and thought about and i hadn't asked you
[39:46] Speaker 1: about it and like I'm not always the best at empathy.
[39:52] Speaker 1: I think I'm generally fairly good, but I admit I'm
[39:56] Speaker 1: not always that good. What you think about old buddy
[40:00] Speaker 1: for the Vikings who took a couple phone calls from
[40:04] Speaker 1: the bank and he thought he was talking to the
[40:07] Speaker 1: bank and somebody scammed him out of $ 240, 000 because he
[40:10] Speaker 1: was wiring money.
[40:17] Speaker 3: You can have sympathy without having empathy.
[40:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, and hold on. Let me get the people caught up, right?
[40:26] Speaker 1: This is from ESPN.com. Quote, per the affidavit, and the
[40:29] Speaker 1: player's name is, sorry, I got to do the C button,
[40:32] Speaker 1: Dallas Turner. I'm pretty sure he played it out about.
[40:34] Speaker 1: Per the affidavit, someone impersonating a banker at JPMorgan Chase
[40:38] Speaker 1: called Turner on February 19th and claimed, quote, and quote,
[40:41] Speaker 1: claimed someone was attempting to impersonate Turner at a Chase
[40:44] Speaker 1: branch in Arizona and presented two copies of ID to
[40:47] Speaker 1: execute a wire transfer. The caller instructed Turner to transfer
[40:52] Speaker 1: money to two separate businesses to prevent the attempted theft.
[40:58] Speaker 1: Turner then went to two Chase branches to transfer $ 120, 000
[41:02] Speaker 1: each to Island Food Truck LLC and CNLFL LLC. Hold on,
[41:12] Speaker 1: hold on. Turner, who's 22, later realized, quote, he may
[41:18] Speaker 1: have been a victim of a fraud scam after discussing
[41:20] Speaker 1: the matter with a family member, according to the affidavit,
[41:23] Speaker 1: and I want to interview with that family member.
[41:26] Speaker 3: I got to say this, and I get why it's
[41:29] Speaker 3: hard to be empathetic or sympathetic in that situation. I
[41:33] Speaker 3: have not gotten scammed like that. However, I've gotten pretty
[41:37] Speaker 3: close in the past because what happens is, fortunately, I
[41:42] Speaker 3: made the calls beforehand. What happens is, they send you
[41:47] Speaker 3: in to fight or flight. It's like, if you get
[41:49] Speaker 3: a credit, a call that feels credible or a letter
[41:51] Speaker 3: or something feels credible that someone is trying to, you're like, Oh,
[41:54] Speaker 3: I got to stop this right now. What do I
[41:56] Speaker 3: need to do? What do I need to do? Like
[41:57] Speaker 3: I could see that happening. So I don't have as
[42:00] Speaker 3: much trouble or so in empathy for my guy, but.
[42:02] Speaker 1: Well, well, well, well, number one, I think he needs
[42:05] Speaker 1: to file a lawsuit against whatever his cell phone provider is.
[42:07] Speaker 1: Cause I would like to think the scam likely would, uh,
[42:11] Speaker 1: would pick that one up. Right. Like I would like
[42:13] Speaker 1: to think that part. I'm just going to throw this
[42:16] Speaker 1: out here because as I talk about it, I do
[42:18] Speaker 1: develop more empathy and sympathy for the other.
[42:20] Speaker 3: Right.
[42:22] Speaker 1: But when they said that you should send the money
[42:27] Speaker 1: to Island Food Truck LLC.
[42:33] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[42:34] Speaker 3: I'm going to go ahead and say that they probably
[42:37] Speaker 3: didn't say that. They probably said, wire it to this number.
[42:43] Speaker 1: I understand you. Counterpoint, because I've had to do some
[42:45] Speaker 1: wiring lately.
[42:46] Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to put in the name of it, yeah.
[42:48] Speaker 1: Or when they put the number in, a name will
[42:50] Speaker 1: come back. And they're like, so you want to send
[42:52] Speaker 1: this to Island Food Truck LLC?
[42:55] Speaker 3: Hell yeah!
[42:56] Speaker 1: That's how I'm going to keep my money safe.
[42:59] Speaker 3: Oh, no. Oh, no.
[43:04] Speaker 1: And to be fair, he has gotten back some of
[43:08] Speaker 1: the money.
[43:08] Speaker 3: $ 2, 500.
[43:10] Speaker 1: $ 2, 500.
[43:12] Speaker 3: It's a start.
[43:13] Speaker 1: What is that $ 2, 500 is what I want to know.
[43:16] Speaker 2: That $ 2, 500 that he got back, who did he get
[43:19] Speaker 2: it from and what is it?
[43:21] Speaker 3: I'm guessing that's all that was left in the accounts
[43:24] Speaker 3: that they could pull back. I don't know, man.
[43:26] Speaker 1: Damn, man. That's a tough break, brother. And look, I
[43:29] Speaker 1: be talking about this. It's that time of year we
[43:31] Speaker 1: be scraping the bowl for content. I hope we don't
[43:34] Speaker 1: even make a short video out of this because I
[43:35] Speaker 1: don't want to embarrass that man no further. And I
[43:38] Speaker 1: always say I be looking forward to somebody getting arrested.
[43:41] Speaker 1: This is worse. Like, this is about as bad as
[43:43] Speaker 1: that time. You remember when that lady ran that game
[43:45] Speaker 1: on Dirk that time? I have forgotten that. That was
[43:50] Speaker 1: just early enough in the social media era. But when
[43:53] Speaker 1: he got dirt, and for those of you who don't
[43:55] Speaker 1: look it up, that boy got dirt and he got dirt.
[43:59] Speaker 1: This is how we found out what dirt like, by
[44:02] Speaker 1: the way.
[44:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[44:02] Speaker 1: This was the first indication. And she had already tried.
[44:06] Speaker 1: I think she tried to steal some jewelry from Tony Banks.
[44:08] Speaker 1: But there go Tony Banks. Banks can play. There goes
[44:11] Speaker 1: Tony Banks in this story, right?
[44:13] Speaker 3: He can play.
[44:13] Speaker 2: But She called Dirk Nowitzki and said, oh, wrong number.
[44:18] Speaker 1: I was trying to call my dad. Hey, what's your name?
[44:23] Speaker 1: And it went from there.
[44:26] Speaker 3: That's a tough one, Dirk. That's a tough one.
[44:29] Speaker 1: Yo, yo. And then, by the way, he balled in
[44:32] Speaker 1: the playoffs after that. I developed a whole new respect
[44:34] Speaker 1: for Dirk. He had been struggling in a couple of
[44:36] Speaker 1: playoffs before that, and then he brought the pain. They lost,
[44:40] Speaker 1: but he still did it.
[44:43] Speaker 3: I can't, yeah, I can't. That is the place where
[44:47] Speaker 3: I feel like most of us, particularly young ones, are susceptible. Like, yeah,
[44:55] Speaker 3: that could get you. I had a conversation with one
[44:57] Speaker 3: of my homeboys a couple days ago who broke up
[44:59] Speaker 3: with his girl he was with for a long time.
[45:02] Speaker 3: And he was saying, like, all the stuff, all the
[45:05] Speaker 3: signs that he had before. And he was like, I
[45:09] Speaker 3: just couldn't see him. And he was like, now that
[45:11] Speaker 3: I'm far enough away, I was stupid. It was so
[45:15] Speaker 3: obvious that she was up to something, but I was
[45:17] Speaker 3: just stupid because I was so close and I was
[45:20] Speaker 3: thinking the wrong way. Like, yeah, he was blinded by
[45:22] Speaker 3: love and some other things. Yeah.
[45:24] Speaker 1: But I'm just saying she hit him with the what's
[45:27] Speaker 1: your name?
[45:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[45:28] Speaker 3: Right.
[45:29] Speaker 2: Like, imagine your luck. I was trying to call my
[45:31] Speaker 2: brother and it turned out on the other.
[45:33] Speaker 1: It was Dirk Nabinsky. Also, the confidence you got to
[45:36] Speaker 1: have in whatever it is you bring it to be like, watch.
[45:40] Speaker 1: This gonna work. And they made it work. And then
[45:44] Speaker 1: it was Dirk's people around him that finally shut the
[45:47] Speaker 1: party down because Dirk was so down. And brother, I'm
[45:51] Speaker 1: afraid to know some of the things that were said
[45:53] Speaker 1: in German about this young lady and the game that
[45:58] Speaker 1: she was running.
[46:00] Speaker 3: The idea that, what's your name? I mean, I'm assuming
[46:03] Speaker 3: that they did the scatter shot. I assume that 500
[46:09] Speaker 3: players got that same text. Like, it's no way that
[46:11] Speaker 3: they was like, hey, what's your name? And it actually worked.
[46:15] Speaker 1: Maybe. Maybe.
[46:17] Speaker 3: Oh, sorry.
[46:19] Speaker 1: You remember that time, by the way, that Eli Manning
[46:22] Speaker 1: gave game-worn jerseys to people that hadn't been worn in
[46:26] Speaker 1: no games?
[46:27] Speaker 3: I forgot about that.
[46:29] Speaker 1: Y'all, they made that one go away fast. I was like, hey,
[46:32] Speaker 1: y'all ain't fooling me on this one.
[46:35] Speaker 3: Y'all, I don't know.
[46:36] Speaker 1: Who exactly was in on this game. And look, I
[46:38] Speaker 1: feel like they just threw that bitch down in the
[46:43] Speaker 1: grass and stepped on it a couple of times.
[46:44] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[46:45] Speaker 1: But they made that story go away immediately.
[46:49] Speaker 3: Power and influence. I was just thinking about the points
[46:52] Speaker 3: that you were making about business earlier and how it
[46:55] Speaker 3: hadn't really hit me until now. It's like I might
[46:57] Speaker 3: have been the only person to go to Harvard Business
[46:59] Speaker 3: School and come out like, I don't really want to
[47:02] Speaker 3: do this. like the only person who went in there
[47:06] Speaker 3: and got a look on the inside and came out
[47:08] Speaker 3: like that ain't for.
[47:11] Speaker 1: Me no you're not the only person it can happen
[47:14] Speaker 1: like I remember when I was taking NBA classes and
[47:17] Speaker 1: I was reading this book that Shauna Sale had written
[47:19] Speaker 1: about wrestling called Sex Lies and Headlocks and it had
[47:24] Speaker 1: a picture of Vince McMahon on the cover and this
[47:26] Speaker 1: man who ain't speak that much English came up to
[47:28] Speaker 1: me I'm not going to do an impression of him
[47:30] Speaker 1: because there's no way to do it without sounding racist
[47:33] Speaker 1: and he was like Vince McMahon I love him I
[47:35] Speaker 1: said what he's like I love him he is such
[47:38] Speaker 1: a great promoter and even if he was a great
[47:41] Speaker 1: promoter I had never heard the idea that somebody would
[47:44] Speaker 1: speak of Vince McMahon with affection was like oh man
[47:48] Speaker 1: I could never do this world oh no no no
[47:52] Speaker 1: I mean when I.
[47:53] Speaker 3: Had gone through the we've had this conversation for the
[47:55] Speaker 3: CBA negotiations it was like when it hit me that
[47:58] Speaker 3: like that people who were billionaires weren't geniuses. And then
[48:01] Speaker 3: I was like locked in like, man, I'm gonna go
[48:03] Speaker 3: to business school and I'm gonna turn this money into
[48:05] Speaker 3: hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. Then I went
[48:07] Speaker 3: there and started talking to people and read more about
[48:10] Speaker 3: this stuff and, and spent one year in between doing
[48:13] Speaker 3: venture capital work and was like, I can't sleep at night.
[48:17] Speaker 3: This shit make me sick. Like I gotta do something
[48:21] Speaker 3: other than this. Cause I, I ain't, I don't want
[48:24] Speaker 3: it that bad to have to like I'm sure like
[48:27] Speaker 3: not everywhere. There are plenty of ethical people in business,
[48:30] Speaker 3: I'm sure. But it just felt like it was a
[48:34] Speaker 3: more ruthless world to succeed in than one that I
[48:37] Speaker 3: had just come from, because at least we was honest
[48:39] Speaker 3: with each other. I want your job. I want your job.
[48:42] Speaker 3: I'm going to try to beat you for it. I'm
[48:44] Speaker 3: going to try to hurt you on this next play.
[48:46] Speaker 3: I'm trying to throw you off the field. All right.
[48:48] Speaker 3: If you can do it, you win. There was no like,
[48:52] Speaker 3: let me try to tilt the rules in my favor
[48:54] Speaker 3: and secretly do like that. Too many of them win
[48:58] Speaker 3: and then they write the story like they didn't do
[49:00] Speaker 3: the bullshit and then we all eat it up.
[49:04] Speaker 1: I'll hit you with one last thing. Our industry doesn't
[49:08] Speaker 1: have the money to do retrospective stuff like they used to.
[49:12] Speaker 1: But this week was 15 years since the decision. I
[49:16] Speaker 1: don't know if we could possibly explain to people because
[49:20] Speaker 1: that 2010 is the combination of like the beginning of
[49:23] Speaker 1: social media. So you had the effects it had to
[49:25] Speaker 1: make things bubble, but still monoculture in a sense, right?
[49:30] Speaker 1: That night in totality, the idea of that whole thing,
[49:37] Speaker 1: It'll never be like that again. That led to me
[49:40] Speaker 1: the four most interesting years that the NBA has ever
[49:43] Speaker 1: given us, the LeBron and Miami years. mind-blowing mind-blowing but
[49:48] Speaker 1: i really do look back on it and i was
[49:49] Speaker 1: a big proponent of the decision i was a big
[49:51] Speaker 1: proponent of lebron and still am in a lot of
[49:53] Speaker 1: ways about that but oh my god what a terrible
[49:57] Speaker 1: idea that was it.
[49:58] Speaker 2: Like it wasn't a it was i see where they
[50:01] Speaker 2: were coming from right but in retrospect i'm like davis
[50:05] Speaker 2: third had the right point oh there's 30 teams and
[50:07] Speaker 2: only one of them's gonna be happy.
[50:09] Speaker 3: Yep yep i mean i i i like you like
[50:13] Speaker 3: it was a proponent and am a proponent. But I
[50:18] Speaker 3: imagine that they would have done things slightly differently if
[50:22] Speaker 3: they had the chance to do it. But you're right.
[50:23] Speaker 3: I think I watched all of their regular season games.
[50:27] Speaker 3: I don't remember the last time I've watched one team's
[50:29] Speaker 3: entire regular season. I feel like I watched all 82.
[50:33] Speaker 3: I was on my honeymoon in the Bahamas to watch Decision.
[50:38] Speaker 3: And I was like, nah, yeah, we're going to have
[50:40] Speaker 3: to take a break from this meal. And walk over
[50:42] Speaker 3: to the bar because they was playing it at the
[50:44] Speaker 3: Bahamian Bar and see where LeBron go go.
[50:49] Speaker 1: I was at the house by myself. And I remember
[50:53] Speaker 1: I knew I was lit and I had to stop
[50:54] Speaker 1: tweeting because it was John Barry, Stuart Scott, Michael Will Bond,
[51:01] Speaker 1: and Chris Broussard. And I sent a tweet. I think
[51:05] Speaker 1: I sent it. I may not have sent it. But
[51:07] Speaker 1: either way, at the very least, I wanted to send
[51:10] Speaker 1: a tweet that said, They need to put a paper
[51:13] Speaker 1: bag on the table. And I realized right then and
[51:15] Speaker 1: there that I needed to tap out. I was not capable.
[51:26] Speaker 1: I was so crunked up about the decision.
[51:28] Speaker 2: And so crunked up off of what I was crunking
[51:31] Speaker 2: that I needed to fall back.
[51:34] Speaker 1: I needed to fall back. That night, my man, Terry.
[51:37] Speaker 1: Terry worked for the... Darren worked for the news station
[51:41] Speaker 1: in Cleveland, right? And he was calling me from the streets,
[51:45] Speaker 1: and I would just hear the people in the background
[51:47] Speaker 1: as he's walking down the street. Because, you know, TV news,
[51:49] Speaker 1: he's driving the van. They got the cameras. Hey, fuck LeBron!
[51:53] Speaker 2: Hey, fuck!
[51:54] Speaker 1: I'm just screaming all this. He said he was involved.
[51:56] Speaker 1: This was the funniest thing. Some dude in the bar
[51:57] Speaker 1: was like, and I quote, I always knew he was
[52:02] Speaker 1: a bitch. He was a bitch in high school and
[52:06] Speaker 1: he a bitch now. That is one of the meanest
[52:09] Speaker 1: places in the world, let us keep in mind, with
[52:12] Speaker 1: legitimate reason to be upset. And he gave it to them.
[52:18] Speaker 3: Man, then came back and they loved him.
[52:21] Speaker 1: A lot of people loved him. I've got one Cleveland
[52:25] Speaker 1: Fred by good buddy Russ in North Carolina. Nothing changed.
[52:30] Speaker 1: really happy to cast what a championship hey to lebron
[52:33] Speaker 1: like he always did hey man like they i think
[52:37] Speaker 1: a lot of them were happy about the championship and
[52:39] Speaker 1: they clap about lebron but don't think for a second
[52:42] Speaker 1: that they did not stop hating him yeah that's reasonable
[52:46] Speaker 1: they just made the trade they just made the trade
[52:49] Speaker 1: because look you ever been to cleveland not for a
[52:54] Speaker 1: game yeah I went up there to talk to Jake
[53:03] Speaker 1: Paul and that's the story for the memoir that's all
[53:14] Speaker 1: I will say about Cleveland is this and this is
[53:17] Speaker 1: a true story and I hope this has been rectified
[53:22] Speaker 1: I stayed at the double tree and it ain't had
[53:24] Speaker 1: no cookies And they said they hadn't had cookies for
[53:30] Speaker 1: a while.
[53:32] Speaker 3: And I don't.
[53:34] Speaker 1: That's what you, that's who you are. That's what you do.
[53:39] Speaker 3: That's not what I was expecting. It's like the, as
[53:42] Speaker 3: a measurement of the city's prosperity is the double treat test.
[53:46] Speaker 3: We got to introduce that.
[53:48] Speaker 1: Well, this was, this was after the airport test.
[53:51] Speaker 3: Oh, God.
[53:52] Speaker 1: Like, I don't think you've been there. Like, like the, the,
[53:56] Speaker 1: the airport test. It's rough. Like Cleveland's airport made me
[54:02] Speaker 1: think of something that I think about whenever I go overseas,
[54:04] Speaker 1: which is how much do paint costs here? Cause it
[54:09] Speaker 1: feels like a couple, a couple of coats of paint
[54:12] Speaker 1: could really change the way people look at this place.
[54:16] Speaker 1: This seems like a really easy solution.
[54:19] Speaker 3: Just a couple of coats.
[54:22] Speaker 2: I'm over there in Portugal and I'm like, damn, ain't
[54:24] Speaker 2: nobody got no paint.
[54:25] Speaker 1: Nobody over here got no paint.
[54:29] Speaker 2: Like, what?
[54:30] Speaker 1: How much does a can of paint cost here?
[54:33] Speaker 3: I see all.
[54:33] Speaker 1: These people out here smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee at
[54:36] Speaker 1: two o'clock in the afternoon. Clearly they could use something
[54:39] Speaker 1: to do.
[54:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, just get a couple rolls on there, man. It'll
[54:44] Speaker 3: change the way things look, man. Change the way you feel.
[54:47] Speaker 3: It might make people happier.
[54:48] Speaker 1: Like when we see ancient ruins, we forget that before
[54:53] Speaker 1: they become ancient ruins, they are new ruins, right?
[54:57] Speaker 2: Right.
[54:57] Speaker 1: And I'm watching in Portugal, like as things are becoming
[55:00] Speaker 1: ancient ruins every day. And then I rode around Cleveland.
[55:03] Speaker 1: I saw the exact same thing. One day some archaeologists
[55:06] Speaker 1: go come through and be like, damn, what was they
[55:07] Speaker 1: doing over here? Like it appears that they used to
[55:12] Speaker 1: build things. Make products. The men work with their hands.
[55:16] Speaker 3: I didn't stay in Cleveland long when I was there.
[55:18] Speaker 3: I was just passing through, but I did not take
[55:21] Speaker 3: a stop at the airport. But I've told you when
[55:22] Speaker 3: I was in Detroit, I was surprised. It was like,
[55:24] Speaker 3: maybe I was in the right areas. Downtown Detroit was popping, man.
[55:27] Speaker 3: It was nice. Except for the guy that I saw
[55:29] Speaker 3: standing on the corner in a bulletproof vest holding a
[55:32] Speaker 3: nine millimeter in his hand with no shirt on. The
[55:35] Speaker 3: element was there. Everything else, I'm like, this is wonderful.
[55:38] Speaker 3: People talking bad about Detroit.
[55:39] Speaker 1: This is fantastic.
[55:40] Speaker 3: That's all that guys. Oh, okay.
[55:42] Speaker 1: So I rode around Detroit with Vinny. I went up
[55:45] Speaker 1: to Ann Arbor or something. Vinny came and, you know, Mr. Detroit, right?
[55:48] Speaker 1: Vinny came and schooled me up. And what I felt
[55:50] Speaker 1: about Detroit was where Detroit was nice, Detroit was nice.
[55:54] Speaker 1: Where Detroit was not nice, there was literally nothing there.
[55:57] Speaker 2: Right.
[55:58] Speaker 1: Like them riots was like 60 years ago. It's like
[56:01] Speaker 1: Miami's got spots like that, too, for when they had
[56:03] Speaker 1: their riots in the 80s. And the white folks was like,
[56:05] Speaker 1: I bet you'll learn your lesson.
[56:06] Speaker 3: We ain't going to fix that.
[56:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, we ain't going to fix nothing. Y'all just going
[56:10] Speaker 1: to be here. Ugh.
[56:15] Speaker 3: Those particular places, man, it's tough. Because you're right, Detroit,
[56:19] Speaker 3: I drove through some of those places that were not great,
[56:21] Speaker 3: which is where we saw the guy with the tactical
[56:24] Speaker 3: vest and three guns. His arms count as two. It
[56:30] Speaker 3: was not, because he was ripped too. It was not
[56:32] Speaker 3: pleasant going through there. And then they have like uniquely
[56:37] Speaker 3: named guys things that like a lot of z's and
[56:41] Speaker 3: x's in the spellings of regular stores it's like man
[56:44] Speaker 3: which which y'all are man i don't appreciate i feel
[56:47] Speaker 3: it i feel.
[56:47] Speaker 1: Disrespected what can i say dominique they can't all be baltimore.
[56:52] Speaker 3: A wonderful magical place hey go to bwi i got
[56:57] Speaker 3: the airport got respect man the airport got respect for
[56:59] Speaker 3: itself damn it it's safe that i live in dc
[57:01] Speaker 3: now Two airports with respect for themselves. A 50 mile radius.
[57:06] Speaker 3: We got three airports that got a fresh coat on them.
[57:09] Speaker 3: Fresh coats everywhere. You won't find no cracking or piss.
[57:12] Speaker 1: Fresh coats. You sound like you selling shit in the
[57:14] Speaker 1: parking lot. Fresh coats! Fresh coats!
[57:18] Speaker 3: We buying it here too, so we good.
[57:21] Speaker 1: And that is Dominique Fosworth. Check him out on the
[57:24] Speaker 1: Dominique Fosworth show where you can find an episode with me,
[57:26] Speaker 1: Dominique and Spencer Hall talking about college sports and payments available.
[57:30] Speaker 1: We're all fine. Podcasts are given away for free. My brother.
[57:33] Speaker 1: I appreciate you. Appreciate you. And ladies and gentlemen, thanks
[57:36] Speaker 1: so much for joining us here on The Right Time.
[57:38] Speaker 1: We do this three times a week. Ryan Brumley handling
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[57:59] Speaker 1: it easy.

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