# Nick Wright RIPS Bomani's list of the top 25 Athletes of the last 25 years | 08.15

An episode of [The Right Time with Bomani Jones](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/982639043), 15 Aug 2025, 57 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/370fc844-36bd-4f61-8b8f-b4bb010de39a/3dd459c3-117e-4dae-9d7c-b4bb01205389/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=919a7cbe-003c-4146-b592-b4bb010de3a5

Bomani Jones is joined by Nick Wright, host of FS1's First Things First and the What's Wright with Nick Wright Podcast. Nick thoroughly goes through Bomani's list of the top 25 athletes of the last 25 years, giving his specific critiques. His biggest gripes come unsurprisingly with the List's placement of LeBron James & Patrick Mahomes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: This is a public service announcement from us at the
[0:02] Speaker 1: right time. As you know, we have done our list
[0:04] Speaker 1: of the top 25 athletes of the last 25 years.
[0:08] Speaker 1: On that list, we had LeBron James at number three
[0:11] Speaker 1: and Tom Brady at number four. Well, this episode, my
[0:14] Speaker 1: good buddy Nick Wright is going to critique our list,
[0:17] Speaker 1: but we told him that Tom Brady is actually above
[0:24] Speaker 1: LeBron James just to see what he would do. Stay
[0:29] Speaker 1: tuned and find out. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the
[0:38] Speaker 1: right time. A wave original. My name is Bomani Jones.
[0:42] Speaker 1: Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for
[0:44] Speaker 1: watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us,
[0:48] Speaker 1: give us five stars. You only give us four stars.
[0:51] Speaker 1: I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is
[0:54] Speaker 1: that time of week where we have a guest join us.
[0:58] Speaker 1: Check him out on the What's Right with Nick Wright podcast. Also,
[1:01] Speaker 1: first things first, I got to start treating Nick like
[1:03] Speaker 1: I treat Spencer. When Spencer comes on, I always say
[1:05] Speaker 1: he's the best college football writer in America right now.
[1:07] Speaker 1: Nobody's doing the sports television game better than our good
[1:10] Speaker 1: buddy Nick Wright is.
[1:11] Speaker 2: What's going on, sir? That's now the third time that
[1:14] Speaker 2: you've said something like that recently. I am very hesitant.
[1:19] Speaker 2: to ever acknowledge compliments or insults, for that matter, on Twitter.
[1:23] Speaker 2: Because once you do, people are like, oh, he's seeing
[1:26] Speaker 2: this stuff. I'm going to up the ante on the
[1:28] Speaker 2: mean shit I'm sending him. But it is incredibly kind.
[1:34] Speaker 2: And it is particularly kind coming from you. Thank you.
[1:36] Speaker 2: I'm glad I'm able to come on. We have kind
[1:39] Speaker 2: of similar recording schedules often. And so it's very hard
[1:43] Speaker 2: to make this work. But you know how much I
[1:45] Speaker 2: love coming on. So I appreciate it, Bo. And I saw...
[1:48] Speaker 2: that you, over the summer, have encroached a bit in
[1:52] Speaker 2: what I consider my proprietary lane as America's, you know,
[1:57] Speaker 2: aforementioned list maker. That's right. And so I'm very excited
[2:01] Speaker 2: to be a part of this. That's right.
[2:02] Speaker 1: We figured nobody else would love to tell me what
[2:04] Speaker 1: was wrong about this list than you would. But I
[2:06] Speaker 1: want to touch on the first thing, because this is
[2:08] Speaker 1: actually a funny story that people may not know. So
[2:10] Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know, Nick and I
[2:12] Speaker 1: moved to the same neighborhood in New York in 2017,
[2:15] Speaker 1: just about literally together.
[2:18] Speaker 2: At the same time, we live within a week of
[2:20] Speaker 2: each other.
[2:21] Speaker 1: Right.
[2:21] Speaker 2: Exactly. He moved four blocks. He lived four blocks away.
[2:24] Speaker 1: Now he lives like 20 something blocks away, which is
[2:27] Speaker 1: wild because that totally breaks the rhythm of hanging out
[2:29] Speaker 1: in New York City. It's hard to explain. It doesn't
[2:31] Speaker 1: seem that far. 20 blocks plus a pandemic throws everything off.
[2:35] Speaker 1: But the first year I was over at their house
[2:37] Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving and your mom was there and, you know,
[2:40] Speaker 1: everybody's very happy. Nick was on TV and your mama
[2:42] Speaker 1: said something at that time to the effect of me
[2:44] Speaker 1: and you was doing it the same.
[2:46] Speaker 2: And I was like, hey, give him time. give him time.
[2:48] Speaker 2: Don't you worry. And what do you know?
[2:50] Speaker 1: We gave him time and you're out here wrecking it.
[2:53] Speaker 1: Like it's, it's, it's for me extra dope to watch.
[2:56] Speaker 1: Cause I'm just old enough to be just old enough
[3:00] Speaker 1: to say things like I'm proud of you.
[3:02] Speaker 2: It's really great. Well, that's very, very nice. And you're right.
[3:05] Speaker 2: You like, listen, you're one of my dearest friends, but
[3:09] Speaker 2: because of you being slightly older and because you're, media
[3:14] Speaker 2: career on a national level started way before mine. There
[3:19] Speaker 2: is an element, an unspoken element of Big Brother to
[3:23] Speaker 2: it as well, even though that's not really our day-to-day relationship.
[3:28] Speaker 2: And so I really... No, I appreciate it, man. Yeah, it's...
[3:30] Speaker 2: I remember... Um, I was in your apartment, which the
[3:35] Speaker 2: apartment thing's crazy because the apartment Bomani ended up moving
[3:38] Speaker 2: into was an apartment that I had toured that I
[3:42] Speaker 2: was seeing if whether or not I thought my family,
[3:45] Speaker 2: like it was a great space for Bomani. It would
[3:47] Speaker 2: have been a little close quarters for me when I,
[3:49] Speaker 2: my three kids were all living with me at the time. Um,
[3:53] Speaker 2: but we ended up, we didn't know that it's when
[3:55] Speaker 2: Bomani had me over to his house. I was like,
[3:57] Speaker 2: holy crap, I've been here before. But I was in
[3:59] Speaker 2: your apartment the night before the show launched. That's right.
[4:03] Speaker 2: And you were kind of giving me like a don't
[4:05] Speaker 2: freak out pep talk. And yeah, now eight years later,
[4:09] Speaker 2: we're still running. So it's very it's a huge blessing.
[4:11] Speaker 2: And Bruin Wilds are just the greatest. And so, yeah,
[4:15] Speaker 2: so it'll be it's really cool. And yeah, I'm happy
[4:18] Speaker 2: to be here. And I'm rocking your cup. I don't
[4:20] Speaker 2: know if you noticed. I'm rocking the Game Theory Cup.
[4:23] Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you.
[4:25] Speaker 3: I forgot that you had one of those things. I
[4:27] Speaker 3: almost wanted to go into my cabinet and make sure
[4:29] Speaker 3: I hadn't gotten got.
[4:29] Speaker 2: No. This was from, I think, my first appearance on there.
[4:34] Speaker 2: That's right. When we argued about Nikola Jokic, and then
[4:37] Speaker 2: I had him burn the tapes because I was right.
[4:41] Speaker 1: Man, because once basketball season comes around, we have so
[4:44] Speaker 1: much to talk about because the Luka LeBron situation, God,
[4:47] Speaker 1: it's got to be.
[4:47] Speaker 2: Hard for you.
[4:48] Speaker 3: Like, I know it does. I know there's got to
[4:50] Speaker 3: be a bit.
[4:50] Speaker 2: Why does it have to be hard? I feel like
[4:51] Speaker 2: you're getting tugged. You know what I'm saying? No, LeBron
[4:54] Speaker 2: loves him. LeBron wanted Anthony Davis to take over the
[4:59] Speaker 2: team for five years. AD wouldn't do it. Now... Does Bron,
[5:04] Speaker 2: you know, love Laker management? I'm not sure, but I
[5:08] Speaker 2: don't think there's any Bron Luca issue. Now, what is
[5:11] Speaker 2: true is this. I have having watched the Lakers for
[5:15] Speaker 2: the better part of the last decade, not all of it,
[5:18] Speaker 2: but for the better part of it, in my opinion,
[5:21] Speaker 2: almost hope that LeBron declines more precipitously than he has.
[5:27] Speaker 2: So as a way to excuse their lack of urgency,
[5:31] Speaker 2: I was very ready. For the moment, Braun retired or
[5:35] Speaker 2: left to be like, well, I'll never root for that
[5:38] Speaker 2: team again. But now they have my second best player,
[5:42] Speaker 2: my second favorite player of my adult life, Luka, on
[5:46] Speaker 2: the team. So I'm just kind of stuck with the Lakers.
[5:49] Speaker 2: By the way, can I ask one question about the list?
[5:52] Speaker 2: Because I know it's North American athletes. Yes. So was
[5:56] Speaker 2: Joker eligible? No.
[5:58] Speaker 3: No.
[5:58] Speaker 2: OK, so even if they play in the U.S. Yes. Yes. OK,
[6:02] Speaker 2: so that was an important clarification.
[6:04] Speaker 1: I needed to make this as easy as possible. So
[6:08] Speaker 1: as we get to the list, my top 25 athletes
[6:10] Speaker 1: of the last 25 years, I remember when Nick was
[6:13] Speaker 1: doing well, first of all, when he was doing the
[6:15] Speaker 1: top 50 NBA players of the last 50 years. But
[6:18] Speaker 1: just generally speaking, when Nick does lists and things, the
[6:22] Speaker 1: part that I don't think the general public can understand
[6:25] Speaker 1: until you see it is the meticulous level of research
[6:29] Speaker 1: that goes into this. Because this is a pig in slop.
[6:33] Speaker 1: Nobody is happier in this world doing something than researching
[6:38] Speaker 1: and ordering for Nick. Like, honestly, I've done this job,
[6:41] Speaker 1: or I did the job that you do, but I've
[6:43] Speaker 1: done similar jobs for a very long time. And I've
[6:45] Speaker 1: never seen anybody who researched more meticulously research. for the
[6:48] Speaker 1: things that you do, right? Like I'm seeing like the
[6:50] Speaker 1: things you came up with to get the job, all
[6:52] Speaker 1: of those things. It is amazing to see. I, on
[6:55] Speaker 1: the other hand, am just out here. I play by ear.
[6:58] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? I don't have the thoroughness
[7:01] Speaker 1: that it is. So we got this list together, but
[7:04] Speaker 1: Ryan and I went back and.
[7:05] Speaker 2: Forth on some things.
[7:06] Speaker 1: Like we were, it was a committee of me and
[7:08] Speaker 1: a subcommittee of Ryan and we went through it and
[7:10] Speaker 1: I'm going to read the names off for the people
[7:12] Speaker 1: who don't know.
[7:13] Speaker 2: Okay. So 25 was Randy Moss. 24 was Cam Newton.
[7:14] Speaker 1: 23, Albert Puholtz. 22, Ray Lewis. 21, Tim Duncan, but hey,
[7:21] Speaker 1: he could be as high as 11. 20 was the
[7:23] Speaker 1: wildcard space where if you don't like somebody or thought
[7:26] Speaker 1: somebody was left out, put the motherfucker in yourself. Katie
[7:28] Speaker 1: Ledecky at 19, Mike Trout, 18, Lamar Jackson, 17, Aaron Rodgers, 16,
[7:36] Speaker 1: Aaron Donald, 15, Peyton Manning, 14, Kevin Durant, 13, Kobe Bryant, 12,
[7:39] Speaker 1: Steph Curry, 11, Patrick Mahomes, 10.
[7:44] Speaker 2: Michael Phelps, 9.
[7:45] Speaker 1: Shohei Otani, 8. Floyd Mayweather, 7. Serena Williams, 6.
[7:50] Speaker 2: Simone Biles, 5.
[7:52] Speaker 1: LeBron James, 4.
[7:54] Speaker 2: Do we have LeBron James, 4?
[7:56] Speaker 1: Yes. LeBron James, 4. Tom Brady, 3. Tiger Woods, 2.
[8:00] Speaker 1: Usain Bolt, number 1.
[8:02] Speaker 2: Okay. Where would you like to start, sir? Well, there's, okay, let's-
[8:07] Speaker 2: Let's go little to big. Let's go little to big. Exactly, exactly.
[8:11] Speaker 2: So let's start with, I'm just, because I have notes
[8:14] Speaker 2: here about what I want to talk about. So let's
[8:16] Speaker 2: start with the 20s. And first thing I want to
[8:19] Speaker 2: say is, shout out to you for including Pujols. Because
[8:25] Speaker 2: I think he oddly, and now he went to community
[8:29] Speaker 2: college right outside Kansas City. So I remember being a
[8:33] Speaker 2: kid and- people being so excited about how special he
[8:38] Speaker 2: was and was going to be. So I, you know,
[8:41] Speaker 2: and I'm not as big of a baseball guy as
[8:43] Speaker 2: a kid as you were, but still like Puholz. And
[8:46] Speaker 2: then he obviously plays for the Cardinals, which the Royals
[8:49] Speaker 2: hate the Cardinals. He's so rude for Puholz. I feel
[8:52] Speaker 2: like his career has become kind of quickly underrated as
[8:57] Speaker 2: far as, yes, he ended up playing long enough that his,
[9:02] Speaker 2: the totality of his numbers were insane, but But his
[9:05] Speaker 2: first decade can go toe-to-toe with anybody ever. It's just
[9:12] Speaker 2: all-time legendary what he was able to do. And I
[9:16] Speaker 2: know for the purposes of this list, it's kind of
[9:20] Speaker 2: perfect because that first decade starts in 01. But I
[9:25] Speaker 2: looked at this right before I came on. If you
[9:27] Speaker 2: go 01 to 2010 for Pujols, it's 10 years– He
[9:33] Speaker 2: has 400 bombs. He's a 330, 430, 630, you know,
[9:39] Speaker 2: splits and is just one of the most dominant hitting
[9:44] Speaker 2: forces the league has ever seen over his opening 10 years.
[9:47] Speaker 2: He had, I'm looking at it now, six consecutive years,
[9:51] Speaker 2: 05 to 2010, leading baseball in war. And I'll be honest,
[9:57] Speaker 2: don't totally understand exactly what that means, but I know
[10:00] Speaker 2: it's great. And so I was happy to see Pujols
[10:03] Speaker 2: on there. And so I don't know. So that's not
[10:07] Speaker 2: a disagreement. That's an agreement. Appreciate you.
[10:10] Speaker 1: And so you know, part of why Pujols got there,
[10:13] Speaker 1: and for those who are new to this, I heavily
[10:16] Speaker 1: prioritize Peek.
[10:17] Speaker 2: I am big into peak. I prioritize peak over longevity.
[10:21] Speaker 2: So that then explains Cam's inclusion, which I have to
[10:25] Speaker 2: imagine is the most controversial of anything on the list. Yes,
[10:30] Speaker 2: I think it is.
[10:31] Speaker 1: The reason I put him in was because he is
[10:34] Speaker 1: also the greatest college football player I've ever seen.
[10:38] Speaker 2: I think that's right.
[10:39] Speaker 1: It's not the pros, but there's something about being that
[10:42] Speaker 1: guy at that level in the way that he was
[10:45] Speaker 1: that nudged him in.
[10:46] Speaker 2: And I like it. So I assumed, and he's also
[10:50] Speaker 2: become an awesome broadcaster. I know that has nothing to
[10:56] Speaker 2: do with this list, but just sidebar on that, I
[11:01] Speaker 2: have no idea. I know nothing about Gilly the Kid.
[11:06] Speaker 2: I know nothing about his rap career. I'm confident he probably,
[11:12] Speaker 2: if he knows me, does not like me because he's
[11:16] Speaker 2: an Eagles guy the way he is. But that little
[11:19] Speaker 2: two and a half minute broadcast masterclass evisceration Cam did.
[11:25] Speaker 2: So funny. I was like, this is every piece of
[11:30] Speaker 2: this is great. It's funny. It's just arrogant enough, but true.
[11:36] Speaker 2: And the way Cam's dressed during it is just perfect.
[11:40] Speaker 2: I loved it. But on his placement on the list,
[11:44] Speaker 2: I assumed his college career was was the majority of
[11:48] Speaker 2: the reason that it wasn't just like a small piece
[11:51] Speaker 2: that that was that if we're doing like a, like that,
[11:55] Speaker 2: it was 70, 30 college over pro that got cam
[11:59] Speaker 2: on here because college football matters. It's America's second or
[12:04] Speaker 2: third most popular sport. And you can make the strong
[12:07] Speaker 2: argument that this quarter century at the very least, he
[12:10] Speaker 2: had the single greatest college season of anyone ever. Yeah.
[12:14] Speaker 1: Like I, in fact, I think to me, the only
[12:17] Speaker 1: competition ever for a better college season is Barry Sanders
[12:20] Speaker 1: running for 2,600 yards in 12 games in 1988. Like
[12:25] Speaker 1: for me, otherwise, that is a big part. Though I
[12:27] Speaker 1: also think this, the way I talk about Cam as a,
[12:31] Speaker 1: he is not in a pro football hall of fame, right?
[12:33] Speaker 2: Let's just go ahead and get that out of the window.
[12:35] Speaker 1: The same thing, if Donovan McNabb can't make it and
[12:37] Speaker 1: he's not going to make it, then I don't think
[12:39] Speaker 1: that Cam Newton should get in to the pro football
[12:42] Speaker 1: hall of fame. However, I look at him kind of
[12:46] Speaker 1: like I look at the Rock and Roll Hall of
[12:48] Speaker 1: Fame where Guns N' Roses is in the Rock and
[12:51] Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame on the Strength of One album, right?
[12:53] Speaker 1: Like sometimes you just do something so cold for a
[12:56] Speaker 1: period that everything else kind of doesn't matter. And I
[12:59] Speaker 1: do think that the first five years of Cam Newton's career, one,
[13:05] Speaker 1: I think he redefined, I don't want to say redefined
[13:09] Speaker 1: the position because that's a little bit too far, but
[13:12] Speaker 1: he did redefine who you would consider taking with the
[13:15] Speaker 1: number one overall pick, right? A dude that was running
[13:17] Speaker 1: a high school offense in the hole. Well, you don't
[13:19] Speaker 1: know how to do this. Don't know how to read
[13:21] Speaker 1: that or whatever. And the guy was too talented to
[13:24] Speaker 1: pass up.
[13:24] Speaker 2: You do it. He wound up being successful.
[13:26] Speaker 1: It created a world where I think a lot of
[13:28] Speaker 1: other guys could wind up getting drafted in those positions.
[13:30] Speaker 2: So like, I think that's part of it.
[13:33] Speaker 1: Two, as a straight football player, I still think he's
[13:36] Speaker 1: the greatest short yardage option that there has ever been.
[13:39] Speaker 2: And I think that that part matters.
[13:41] Speaker 1: And three, He went to the Super Bowl as the
[13:44] Speaker 1: starting quarterback of a team whose best wide receiver was
[13:47] Speaker 1: Featherstone from Necessary Roughness, a.k.a.
[13:50] Speaker 2: Ted Gitt. Yeah. I mean, that's that. So that is
[13:54] Speaker 2: I saw when people were getting the, you know, all
[13:57] Speaker 2: riled up about the Cam versus Jalen Hurts stuff. I
[14:02] Speaker 2: saw it going around that Cam's team that year has
[14:06] Speaker 2: the all time record for most first team all pros.
[14:09] Speaker 2: And they were like, oh, and you're saying he carried them.
[14:11] Speaker 2: And that's where it's like, yeah, because we watched the games.
[14:15] Speaker 2: We were there. Like, listen, Keekly is unbelievable. They did
[14:20] Speaker 2: have a very good defense. There is no denying any
[14:23] Speaker 2: of that. But we were there. He was the, I
[14:27] Speaker 2: think that season, he was the only quarterback in the
[14:32] Speaker 2: league that would have had that team in the playoffs,
[14:38] Speaker 2: much less 15-1 because, and again, that defense was awesome,
[14:44] Speaker 2: but that offense was so non-functional aside from Cam Newton
[14:49] Speaker 2: doing dope shit. And what kind of gets forgotten about
[14:54] Speaker 2: Cam is it didn't end there. Because he had, I
[14:59] Speaker 2: don't think it was the next year. I'm going to
[15:01] Speaker 2: look it up real quick. Two years later, I remember
[15:03] Speaker 2: in the playoffs, he had a duel with Breeze. Yeah,
[15:07] Speaker 2: it was exactly two years later. They lost to Breeze
[15:10] Speaker 2: in 2017, 31-26. Cam threw for 350, two touchdowns, had
[15:18] Speaker 2: a 105 rating, ran for another 40. He kept showing up,
[15:24] Speaker 2: and then it ended quickly. But the Cam versus, because
[15:28] Speaker 2: I was going to ask you someone else versus Breeze,
[15:31] Speaker 2: so we'll bounce around a bit. Because I think Breeze
[15:36] Speaker 2: has a potential gripe here. And so my question is,
[15:41] Speaker 2: how long and hard did you consider Lamar versus Breeze?
[15:47] Speaker 1: Oh, that is a good question, because I think that
[15:50] Speaker 1: Lamar versus Cam probably would have been the one.
[15:54] Speaker 2: Now, some may be asking.
[15:55] Speaker 1: The question, gee, Bomani, is it possible that you put
[15:57] Speaker 1: together the whole list? And because Drew Breeze acts like
[16:00] Speaker 1: such an old fucking man, you forgot that you and
[16:02] Speaker 1: he actually graduated from high school the same year and
[16:04] Speaker 1: therefore would have been eligible.
[16:05] Speaker 2: You know, it's on the board.
[16:07] Speaker 3: Right.
[16:07] Speaker 2: You know, that happens. That's the why. That's the brilliance
[16:10] Speaker 2: of the wildcard spot.
[16:11] Speaker 3: Yes.
[16:12] Speaker 2: It's like, you know what? I wanted to. Drew Brees
[16:14] Speaker 2: is going to slide in at 20 and it's going
[16:17] Speaker 2: to be perfect. Better than Cam Newton. Not quite as
[16:19] Speaker 2: good as Lamar Jackson. Like, what do you want from me?
[16:22] Speaker 2: Help me help you. Help me help you. You know
[16:24] Speaker 2: what I'm saying?
[16:25] Speaker 1: The thing about Drew Brees, though, now that we've mentioned it,
[16:27] Speaker 1: because I do think probably he might be the person
[16:30] Speaker 1: of all people who has the biggest gripe because he's
[16:33] Speaker 1: We've never had anything like this, or maybe we have,
[16:36] Speaker 1: but I can't think of a situation like this because
[16:37] Speaker 1: I think people have forgotten this about Drew Brees. Drew
[16:40] Speaker 1: Brees was so bad his third year in the league
[16:44] Speaker 1: that not only did they draft his replacement, he won
[16:49] Speaker 1: comeback player of the year in 04. And what was
[16:52] Speaker 1: he coming back from?
[16:53] Speaker 2: He was never there.
[16:54] Speaker 1: He wasn't even hurt.
[16:55] Speaker 3: Right.
[16:56] Speaker 2: That's the thing. People see that award and in their head,
[17:00] Speaker 2: they think it's because, oh, he won that post shoulder,
[17:04] Speaker 2: you know, whatever. It's like, no, he was just coming
[17:06] Speaker 2: back from being awful. Right. It was it was it
[17:08] Speaker 2: was truly just you were so bad and then you
[17:11] Speaker 2: were great.
[17:12] Speaker 1: And this is also why I have no– he is
[17:14] Speaker 1: why I have no sympathy for Kirk Cousins in Atlanta
[17:17] Speaker 1: because they went and drafted Drew Brees' replacement.
[17:20] Speaker 2: They brought him in.
[17:21] Speaker 1: And you could say, look, Rivers held out that year
[17:23] Speaker 1: and that's the reason why he wasn't a starter.
[17:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's it.
[17:26] Speaker 1: But what Drew Brees did there was win his job
[17:29] Speaker 1: for the rest of his career wherever the.
[17:31] Speaker 2: Place may be, right?
[17:33] Speaker 1: Then he got the shoulder injury at the end of
[17:36] Speaker 1: 05 that stopped Miami from taking him because he blew
[17:38] Speaker 1: the box on the physical and New Orleans rolled the dice.
[17:41] Speaker 1: right yes and it worked like it is an amazing
[17:45] Speaker 1: career nobody I don't know if any football player truly
[17:48] Speaker 1: means more to their city than Drew Brees means to
[17:51] Speaker 1: New Orleans.
[17:52] Speaker 2: So that's something Greg Rosenthal is big on he went
[17:55] Speaker 2: to college at Tulane he's it seems.
[17:57] Speaker 1: With Anthony Jeselnik by the way oh yeah they're they're
[18:00] Speaker 1: they're like this.
[18:01] Speaker 2: Oh yeah that's right they did a pod together very
[18:04] Speaker 2: fairly maybe they still do yeah I think Greg's great
[18:07] Speaker 2: I think he's outstanding but he mentions that point about
[18:10] Speaker 2: Drew a lot, about how much he means to New Orleans. Now,
[18:14] Speaker 2: I will say this. If, and I am highly skeptical,
[18:21] Speaker 2: if Sean Payton and all these shitties talking about how
[18:25] Speaker 2: great Bo Nix is going to be in the Broncos
[18:28] Speaker 2: are going to be and how he's reinventing quarterback evaluations
[18:32] Speaker 2: and telling anyone who will listen, you know, how, what
[18:35] Speaker 2: a find they have. If Bo Nix turns into a superstar,
[18:41] Speaker 2: I actually think it dims Drew Brees a little bit.
[18:44] Speaker 2: I think, I think, I think then all of a
[18:46] Speaker 2: sudden retroactively we're like, Oh, that was more Sean Payton
[18:49] Speaker 2: just a little bit. But I, I think the opposite
[18:52] Speaker 2: is going to happen. I think Sean Payton thinks, shoot,
[18:55] Speaker 2: I can do this with Bo. Look what I did
[18:57] Speaker 2: with Drew. And he's about to find out, nah, man,
[19:00] Speaker 2: those two dudes are not the same.
[19:02] Speaker 1: Buddy, we about to have them Denver folks up in
[19:05] Speaker 1: my keister once more. I've never seen other, not even
[19:09] Speaker 1: Buffalo fans were as protective of their young quarterback as
[19:12] Speaker 1: the Denver people seem to be of Bo Nix.
[19:14] Speaker 2: I had no idea. Does that mean it's power hour? Yeah.
[19:17] Speaker 2: And I was just like, hey, I'm not here yet.
[19:19] Speaker 3: Right?
[19:19] Speaker 2: Me too.
[19:20] Speaker 1: I find that you and I, with one exception, have
[19:24] Speaker 1: similar levels of skepticism about everyone about whom we are skeptical.
[19:30] Speaker 2: Was the exception Lamar?
[19:31] Speaker 1: Yes, but I get your point. I don't think you're wrong.
[19:36] Speaker 2: I just think after last year, I feel a bit different.
[19:39] Speaker 1: Last year with Lamar felt like, you remember in the
[19:42] Speaker 1: 2012 season when LeBron was hitting all those, when we
[19:45] Speaker 1: were like, oh, I don't know if LeBron could do
[19:46] Speaker 1: it at the end, and he was hitting all those
[19:48] Speaker 1: would-be game winners, but then somebody would pull a horseshoe
[19:51] Speaker 1: out their ass right after that, and it was a
[19:53] Speaker 1: whole three months where that happened. I felt like Lamar
[19:56] Speaker 1: and Buffalo, the corner was turned, and they just kind of– So.
[19:59] Speaker 2: I think that's on the board. I think the second
[20:03] Speaker 2: half of that game– might end up being, even though
[20:07] Speaker 2: they lost one of the more important fork in the
[20:10] Speaker 2: road moments, because it had all the makings of another
[20:14] Speaker 2: playoff meltdown. And then he played great in the second half. And,
[20:20] Speaker 2: you know, people always point to the Andrews drop. It
[20:23] Speaker 2: was the Andrews fumble earlier in the second half that
[20:26] Speaker 2: really you know, it helped them or prevented them from
[20:30] Speaker 2: digging out of that hole earlier. So I don't mind
[20:33] Speaker 2: saying any of that. What I mind, because I also
[20:35] Speaker 2: went on Mina's Power Hour, what I mind is all
[20:39] Speaker 2: of the folks who, because he played so well in
[20:43] Speaker 2: the second half, are it their take on that game
[20:47] Speaker 2: is Lamar played great that game like well no he
[20:50] Speaker 2: he was he was brilliant one happened at a rough
[20:52] Speaker 2: another app but we don't have to talk about we
[20:54] Speaker 2: don't have to do that right now um so and
[20:56] Speaker 2: I also don't think here's the tricky thing about so
[21:02] Speaker 2: you have Peyton on the list I don't know if
[21:03] Speaker 2: we're doing this the way you want to do it
[21:05] Speaker 2: however you want to do it big dog um people
[21:08] Speaker 2: bring up like you know Peyton was a guy who
[21:11] Speaker 2: struggled in the playoffs And then he got over the hump.
[21:15] Speaker 2: And the reality is, not really. Peyton struggled in the
[21:19] Speaker 2: playoffs kind of the whole way through his career, but
[21:23] Speaker 2: was so good in the regular season, and there are
[21:27] Speaker 2: so many times that you're just bound to have a
[21:30] Speaker 2: season where even though you struggle, you guys win anyway. Again,
[21:35] Speaker 2: I'm going to fact check myself in real time. I
[21:38] Speaker 2: think the year Peyton won his first Super Bowl, in
[21:42] Speaker 2: that playoff run, I want to make sure I'm right
[21:44] Speaker 2: about this. Yeah, 06 Colts, playoff Peyton Manning. They win
[21:50] Speaker 2: the Super Bowl. Three touchdowns, seven picks, a 70 rating.
[21:54] Speaker 2: He didn't all of a sudden, like, you know what
[21:57] Speaker 2: I mean? Exercise his demons. All of a sudden he was,
[22:02] Speaker 2: when you're at the roulette table that many times, you're
[22:04] Speaker 2: going to hit your number. Like, and he got himself there.
[22:08] Speaker 2: And so I find I, the point that I'm, the
[22:12] Speaker 2: reason I bring that up about Lamar is I don't
[22:14] Speaker 2: even necessarily think Lamar has to all of a sudden, like,
[22:20] Speaker 2: become regular season Lamar in the postseason for him to
[22:23] Speaker 2: become a champion. When you're that dominant in the regular
[22:27] Speaker 2: season every single year and you have that many chances, eventually,
[22:32] Speaker 2: even if you're not great, things are going to break
[22:34] Speaker 2: your way. And so I do think, you know, I
[22:38] Speaker 2: think Lamar is because he's a two time and could
[22:41] Speaker 2: have been three time MVP. I have no problem with
[22:44] Speaker 2: his placement on the list. I think him being right
[22:47] Speaker 2: behind Aaron Rodgers is correct, though. I think Rodgers is
[22:51] Speaker 2: fairly ahead of them.
[22:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think bringing Peyton Manning into this is interesting
[22:56] Speaker 1: because I think Lamar and Peyton Manning are very similar
[23:02] Speaker 1: in that what has gotten them in the playoffs.
[23:04] Speaker 2: And again, we were there. We watched these games.
[23:08] Speaker 1: Thinking a little bit too much, right? Like you can
[23:11] Speaker 1: see the log, especially with Peyton Manning, where the conscious
[23:13] Speaker 1: decision was made every year, we're not going to change anything, right?
[23:17] Speaker 1: And so now all of a sudden teams are doing
[23:18] Speaker 1: something different. And I think both of them have the
[23:21] Speaker 1: issue of good to very good arms, but not great arms.
[23:26] Speaker 1: And the postseason, the windows get shorter and guys can
[23:29] Speaker 1: break on those out routes a little more. And they
[23:31] Speaker 1: know that, right? Like they reached a point in their
[23:33] Speaker 1: careers where they came to understand that. But they are
[23:35] Speaker 1: very similar in where it is that they have come
[23:39] Speaker 1: up short.
[23:39] Speaker 2: But you are right.
[23:40] Speaker 1: The 06 run for Peyton Manning, he wasn't doing it.
[23:43] Speaker 2: Like it was not, it wasn't that. It wasn't that.
[23:47] Speaker 1: Bob Sanders came back and everything felt different. Correct.
[23:50] Speaker 2: And so like Lamar needs that, you know, he, he
[23:54] Speaker 2: has two paths and the odds are he hits one
[23:57] Speaker 2: of them. All right. So let me ask the, can we,
[24:01] Speaker 2: I want to switch to basketball because you said something interesting.
[24:04] Speaker 2: Duncan's 21 could be as high as 11.
[24:07] Speaker 3: Yes.
[24:07] Speaker 2: So what is, so this is the basketball guys. Cause
[24:11] Speaker 2: it's very hard to be like, here's why Mike Trout's
[24:14] Speaker 2: better than Tim Duncan. So I'm just kind of sticking
[24:16] Speaker 2: with the sport. So you have Duncan. Then Durant in
[24:21] Speaker 2: descending order. Duncan 21, Durant 13, Kobe 12, Steph 11.
[24:28] Speaker 1: Yes.
[24:29] Speaker 2: Explain Duncan being behind all those guys.
[24:34] Speaker 1: As a bit of a rhetorical device. So the whole
[24:37] Speaker 1: way we could always ask the question, are you sure
[24:39] Speaker 1: that guy is better than Tim Duncan?
[24:41] Speaker 2: Right? Like that was part of it.
[24:43] Speaker 1: When we were doing the first part, I was like,
[24:44] Speaker 1: oh man, Tim Duncan.
[24:45] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[24:45] Speaker 1: I hadn't put him in the list. And then I
[24:47] Speaker 1: put Tim Duncan in. And then as I kept going
[24:49] Speaker 1: and had all these other people, I was like, wow,
[24:51] Speaker 1: I'm not sure any of them are better than Tim Duncan.
[24:54] Speaker 1: But if I need to make the case against Tim Duncan,
[24:59] Speaker 1: it is a very interesting case. Tim Duncan was, is
[25:04] Speaker 1: a three-time finals MVP, and he is a five-time champion.
[25:09] Speaker 2: And he does it in San Antonio.
[25:11] Speaker 1: And I think it is very important to note, David
[25:14] Speaker 1: Robinson had not gotten a title until Tim Duncan got there. And, and,
[25:18] Speaker 1: and I think this is a big one. Tim Duncan
[25:20] Speaker 1: got his championship.
[25:21] Speaker 2: Before Shaq did.
[25:23] Speaker 1: Which to me meant that he wound up being a
[25:26] Speaker 1: bit of a gilded lily after two years in the
[25:29] Speaker 1: NBA and in a way where we did not criticize
[25:34] Speaker 1: some of the places where he came up short. For example,
[25:38] Speaker 1: the Lakers won three straight rings on his watch. And
[25:41] Speaker 1: number two, when the Spurs lose a series, baby, the
[25:44] Speaker 1: Spurs lose a series.
[25:47] Speaker 2: They have gotten run out of there a bunch of times.
[25:50] Speaker 1: The other thing, Tim Duncan also has the game seven
[25:53] Speaker 1: series win against the Pistons where you look at the
[25:55] Speaker 1: stat line in 05 and it looks incredible. And then
[25:58] Speaker 1: you go look at FGM versus FGA and it's like,
[26:02] Speaker 1: oh no, these shots weren't really going in at all.
[26:05] Speaker 1: Tim Duncan would have had the great shot in 04
[26:07] Speaker 1: against the Lakers that Derek Fisher then erased. But if
[26:10] Speaker 1: you look at how terrified he was when he put
[26:13] Speaker 1: up that shot, that turnaround that went in that made
[26:16] Speaker 1: that shot happen.
[26:17] Speaker 2: Of course. I believe it was game seven.
[26:20] Speaker 1: In 2013 where he short-armed the layup because I remember
[26:23] Speaker 1: sitting there in the press room.
[26:25] Speaker 2: It was game seven, and then LeBron came down and
[26:28] Speaker 2: hit the jumper, and the series is over.
[26:30] Speaker 1: And he looked so sad, like he had blown the
[26:33] Speaker 1: NBA finals.
[26:33] Speaker 2: They pounded the floor. Yeah.
[26:36] Speaker 1: But I remember I was, because I was there. That
[26:38] Speaker 1: was in Miami. I was there when he was at
[26:41] Speaker 1: the dais after the game, dressed like an old Navy flannel,
[26:44] Speaker 1: like it wasn't 105 degrees outside, you know, all that.
[26:47] Speaker 1: And I just remember how down he looked. And I
[26:49] Speaker 1: was like, wow, nobody's going to talk about the fact
[26:51] Speaker 1: that Tim Duncan just blew the game because he's Tim Duncan. Like,
[26:54] Speaker 1: there is a run of Tim Duncan bullshits didn't really
[26:57] Speaker 1: come up in this moment throughout his career that we
[27:00] Speaker 1: don't talk about because all we talk about is how
[27:03] Speaker 1: nobody talks about Tim Duncan enough. That being said, maybe
[27:06] Speaker 1: the most impactful team defender that has ever walked the
[27:11] Speaker 1: face of the earth.
[27:12] Speaker 2: Well, so I thought you were going to go... See,
[27:16] Speaker 2: I would... I would have gone with a different argument,
[27:20] Speaker 2: which is, oh, no, no, no. Duncan's better than all
[27:23] Speaker 2: those guys.
[27:25] Speaker 3: But.
[27:26] Speaker 2: That's for his career. And one of those titles and
[27:29] Speaker 2: one of his best seasons ever was 1999. So it
[27:31] Speaker 2: doesn't count. Like, that's what I thought you were going
[27:34] Speaker 2: to say. You know what? That's fair. Yeah. Like, no, no, no.
[27:37] Speaker 2: This is 2000. So Duncan doesn't have five rings on
[27:40] Speaker 2: this list. He has four. He doesn't have a rookie
[27:43] Speaker 2: of the year. He doesn't have, you know, he doesn't
[27:46] Speaker 2: have three finals MVPs. He has two. And so because, listen,
[27:51] Speaker 2: I think Duncan is... I kind of put all time
[27:58] Speaker 2: NBA guys into buckets. And I think like bucket one
[28:04] Speaker 2: is the three guys with the goat argument, Bron, Kareem,
[28:07] Speaker 2: and Jordan. Bucket two is Magic, Russell, Wilt, Duncan. And
[28:15] Speaker 2: then it gets messy. And we are now getting in
[28:18] Speaker 2: the messy portion of it with your bold take that's
[28:24] Speaker 2: not so bold but feels bold to people, that Steph
[28:28] Speaker 2: Curry is better than Kobe Bryant. Okay, put a pin
[28:30] Speaker 2: in that one. Put a pin in that one.
[28:32] Speaker 1: We are going to take a break, and coming up next,
[28:35] Speaker 1: we're going to talk about that and the two things
[28:38] Speaker 1: that I know made Nick the most furious.
[28:40] Speaker 2: Yes, we're saving those. All right, we are back.
[28:46] Speaker 1: Nick Wright, we are going through the top 25 athletes
[28:48] Speaker 1: of the last 25 years. We have basically gotten through
[28:52] Speaker 1: the top 14. Now we're at the top 13. And
[28:56] Speaker 1: we've got Kevin Durant, 13, Kobe Bryant, 12, Steph Curry, 11.
[29:00] Speaker 2: Where are you? Well, so here's the thing. I think,
[29:07] Speaker 2: excuse me, Kobe has... gone through a very interesting arc
[29:16] Speaker 2: of legacy that obviously was severely complicated by his tragic
[29:23] Speaker 2: passing and the circumstances surrounding that. I think for the
[29:29] Speaker 2: vast majority of the last 15 years, Kobe has been
[29:38] Speaker 2: significantly overrated. and when I say significantly overrated it's not
[29:42] Speaker 2: because I'm like man he's like 15 it's because he
[29:47] Speaker 2: was elevated into a true Is he the greatest? And
[29:52] Speaker 2: if he's not, you know, top two or three all time.
[29:55] Speaker 2: And there is simply no legitimate argument for that. No
[30:01] Speaker 2: one can create it. It falls apart at the lightest inspection.
[30:07] Speaker 2: And that's kind of where he lived for a while.
[30:11] Speaker 2: And now, just as of late, I know Bleacher Report did,
[30:15] Speaker 2: you know, their 100 greatest or whatever, and Kobe was...
[30:19] Speaker 2: right outside the top 10. And it felt like that
[30:23] Speaker 2: to me felt like an overcorrection where I, I do not,
[30:29] Speaker 2: I think Kobe versus Steph is a legitimate argument and
[30:34] Speaker 2: I can understand. I think you could do, you know,
[30:38] Speaker 2: Lincoln Douglas style debate, tell me, pick the side and
[30:42] Speaker 2: I could make a compelling case. So I don't mind
[30:44] Speaker 2: that you have Steph, you know, one spot ahead of him.
[30:46] Speaker 2: I would have Kobe a spot ahead of him. When
[30:49] Speaker 2: people are constructing the most obvious, hey, Kobe was great,
[30:55] Speaker 2: but dot, dot, dot arguments, they're going to point to
[30:59] Speaker 2: a few things. One is that the first championship, he
[31:03] Speaker 2: was not yet a great player. So be it. That's true.
[31:07] Speaker 2: And the next two, he was a great player, but
[31:09] Speaker 2: he had arguably the most dominant NBA force ever, which
[31:15] Speaker 2: is 01 and 02 Shaq, peak of his powers. And
[31:18] Speaker 2: then they are going to quickly point to the 0-5-0-6-0-7.
[31:22] Speaker 2: Miss the playoffs, bounce in round one, blow a 3-1
[31:28] Speaker 2: lead in round one during his prime. That is totally fair.
[31:35] Speaker 2: Steph doesn't get that at all. When if we look
[31:38] Speaker 2: at Steph post-Durant, the Warriors have in this more than
[31:45] Speaker 2: half decade stretch, they have won a title. missed the
[31:49] Speaker 2: playoffs multiple times, gotten bounced early multiple times, and Steph
[31:54] Speaker 2: has had some rough moments. And again, I think Steph
[32:00] Speaker 2: is right on the outside of the top 10 all time.
[32:04] Speaker 2: I'm not knocking him. My point is, And his version
[32:08] Speaker 2: of Kobe at peak Shaq is Steph for two of
[32:13] Speaker 2: his four, obviously, had arguably the most stacked team of
[32:16] Speaker 2: all time. And Durant's there, and Durant's winning finals MVP
[32:20] Speaker 2: like Shaq was winning it over Kobe. So I just
[32:22] Speaker 2: think there are a lot of similar, again, nits to pick.
[32:27] Speaker 2: And so to me, the tie goes to just Kobe's
[32:33] Speaker 2: impact as a defender. which is going to give him
[32:38] Speaker 2: such a massive edge over Steph. And so that, I
[32:45] Speaker 2: think it's a legit argument. I would have Kobe ahead
[32:48] Speaker 2: of him. But I think we are maybe approaching, you know, homeostasis,
[32:53] Speaker 2: if you will, in the Kobe Bryant, like, arguments. Like,
[32:57] Speaker 2: there was a long time people thought it was outrageous
[33:01] Speaker 2: to have Duncan ahead of Kobe. Now it's become for
[33:04] Speaker 2: some something of conventional wisdom. So I think that is
[33:09] Speaker 2: more correct. But I just think that I think Kobe's
[33:13] Speaker 2: always been competing with Duncan and Bird and now Steph.
[33:18] Speaker 2: And people wanted him to be competing with Michael and
[33:20] Speaker 2: LeBron and Magic. And I just don't think he was.
[33:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that everything you said there was dead on.
[33:27] Speaker 1: And I honestly think that when I started really rethinking
[33:29] Speaker 1: the Tim Duncan thing was when I got to Kobe.
[33:32] Speaker 2: And I was like, ooh.
[33:33] Speaker 1: Because look, they've got a back and forth between the
[33:36] Speaker 1: two of them throughout history with their teams going against
[33:39] Speaker 1: each other. I have always said. I think Afro Kobe
[33:42] Speaker 1: has proven to be underrated. I think 24 proved to
[33:46] Speaker 1: be a bit underrated. But your point about the three
[33:49] Speaker 1: down years versus Steph three down years are interesting in
[33:52] Speaker 1: part because the NBA has changed just a bit. And
[33:55] Speaker 1: it is possible now for, for example, this version of
[33:58] Speaker 1: LeBron James to only get past the first round of
[34:01] Speaker 1: the playoff once in five years. that would never have
[34:04] Speaker 1: happened in the iteration of the NBA that we're talking
[34:07] Speaker 1: about before, right? If you had a player as good
[34:09] Speaker 1: as that, you were going to get a round, maybe two, like,
[34:12] Speaker 1: you know, like you were going to get there. When
[34:15] Speaker 1: that happened with Kobe and the part that I have
[34:18] Speaker 1: trouble shaking in my head is flat out watching him
[34:21] Speaker 1: in game seven of the 2007 first round against Phoenix,
[34:26] Speaker 1: where he just flat out stopped taking shots to prove
[34:29] Speaker 1: some point, right?
[34:30] Speaker 2: Like the- Up 3-1.
[34:32] Speaker 1: Up 3-1.
[34:32] Speaker 2: In a series, you had been up 3-1 flat. So
[34:35] Speaker 2: that is the other part. Flat out quit and then
[34:39] Speaker 2: demanded a trade.
[34:40] Speaker 3: Yes, he did.
[34:41] Speaker 2: And then went and then was talking. It is now,
[34:45] Speaker 2: now if you tell people, oh man, he was caught
[34:48] Speaker 2: on video bad-mouthing his teammates. People don't understand what caught
[34:53] Speaker 2: on video in 2007 meant. You must have been saying
[35:01] Speaker 2: this to everyone you saw for weeks on end before
[35:06] Speaker 2: you ran into someone who had a handheld camcorder on
[35:09] Speaker 2: them to where they could get it. Like caught on
[35:12] Speaker 2: video back then meant you got really unlucky or it's
[35:16] Speaker 2: all you were doing. It's not today. Nobody was walking
[35:19] Speaker 2: around with video cameras. And so that part, he went
[35:23] Speaker 2: on Stephen A's radio show and asked for a trade.
[35:26] Speaker 2: Said he wanted to go to Pluto. Yes. And so
[35:29] Speaker 2: that part has been a little bit memory hold. And again,
[35:33] Speaker 2: I'm not trying... I think he is obviously an all-time legend.
[35:37] Speaker 2: And I do think that there is... Another thing I believe.
[35:43] Speaker 2: I think efficiency, once upon a time, was wildly underrated.
[35:48] Speaker 2: And now... Like that, I'll go back to Bleacher Report list,
[35:52] Speaker 2: which had David Robinson like cartoonishly high. I think they
[35:56] Speaker 2: had him like, you know, like 14 or something. I
[35:59] Speaker 2: think there are certain things where some of the analytics
[36:02] Speaker 2: can be misleading. I want to ask one Durant thing
[36:07] Speaker 2: before we get to what my real issues are, because
[36:09] Speaker 2: you're right, I have some real issues. Well, hold on.
[36:10] Speaker 1: Let me say one thing right fast before you get
[36:12] Speaker 1: to Durant. On Steph, I think a big part of
[36:16] Speaker 1: me on Steph is this. Who do you think had
[36:21] Speaker 1: a better supporting cast? Kobe Bryant in 2009 and 2010
[36:27] Speaker 1: or Steph Curry in 2015?
[36:31] Speaker 2: That one, that one I think is close. I don't
[36:35] Speaker 2: think it's close 2022. I think that Kobe had the
[36:40] Speaker 2: far better supporting cast than Steph for his final title. Right.
[36:44] Speaker 2: That's the first. Yeah, go ahead. This is why I
[36:46] Speaker 2: say that.
[36:48] Speaker 1: I think that as Michael Jordan made a Hall of
[36:51] Speaker 1: Famer of Scottie Pippen, I think that Steph Curry made
[36:54] Speaker 1: Hall of Famers of Klay Thompson and Drayvon Green. That's
[36:59] Speaker 1: a big thing for me, is I think we underrate
[37:03] Speaker 1: the level to which the presence of Steph Curry, once
[37:06] Speaker 1: Steve Curry got there, elevated everybody that was around them.
[37:09] Speaker 1: That's why they could win 73 games the next year
[37:12] Speaker 1: and need to go get Kevin Durant after that season,
[37:15] Speaker 1: because they really didn't have as much as it looked
[37:17] Speaker 1: like they had.
[37:19] Speaker 2: I think that's totally legit. I think that obviously there's
[37:24] Speaker 2: a million ways Draymond's career plays out, and this was
[37:29] Speaker 2: the absolute best case scenario. You know what I mean?
[37:32] Speaker 2: There are no better versions for Draymond Green than everything
[37:35] Speaker 2: that fell, and he obviously earned it. I do think that,
[37:41] Speaker 2: but I think that goes in the other direction at
[37:45] Speaker 2: least a touch as well, which is Draymond... being so
[37:49] Speaker 2: brilliant defensively and such a tough leader, I think that
[37:55] Speaker 2: there were better players that could have been Steph's defensive
[37:59] Speaker 2: anchor or whatever, and Steph's career doesn't, they don't reach
[38:04] Speaker 2: the height they reached there. All right, my only Durant
[38:08] Speaker 2: question is, how much do you care that post-Warriors he
[38:15] Speaker 2: has played zero games past round two. And it really
[38:20] Speaker 2: feels like only has had one stretch of high leverage basketball.
[38:26] Speaker 2: And that was that round two series against the Bucs
[38:28] Speaker 2: where he played the best basketball of his life.
[38:31] Speaker 1: Now, if his foot's back just a little bit in 2021, whoa,
[38:33] Speaker 1: the way we talk about him and the way we
[38:35] Speaker 1: talk about Giannis are both wildly different. Like Giannis is
[38:39] Speaker 1: in the Paul Pierce, Dirk Nowitzki. Boy, that one title
[38:42] Speaker 1: changed a lot, didn't it list, right?
[38:43] Speaker 2: Correct. Like they're both there.
[38:46] Speaker 1: I think Kevin Durant has an argument around 2017 for
[38:52] Speaker 1: having been the best player in the NBA, right? I
[38:54] Speaker 1: think you and I would both agree that it was
[38:56] Speaker 1: probably LeBron James through that stretch. But in 2014, when
[38:59] Speaker 1: he won the MVP, I mean, he has an argument
[39:02] Speaker 1: that he was the best player in the NBA, at
[39:04] Speaker 1: least for that season. Then you go and you put
[39:06] Speaker 1: LeBron and the Cavs out two times. You hit the
[39:08] Speaker 1: shots that wind up doing it. I think we don't
[39:10] Speaker 1: give him enough credit for the peak.
[39:13] Speaker 2: At that point.
[39:14] Speaker 1: But yeah, everything that happened after that, I think I'm
[39:18] Speaker 1: not an apologist for him, but I think he gets
[39:22] Speaker 1: a bad rap for leaving a place that clearly made
[39:24] Speaker 1: him miserable. And we know i don't penalize him for
[39:27] Speaker 1: that i don't criticize him for leaving golden state because
[39:31] Speaker 1: It was remarkable to me how many people were like
[39:35] Speaker 1: me in the media saying, why did you go there?
[39:38] Speaker 2: This is bullshit. You shouldn't have gone there. And then
[39:41] Speaker 2: when he left, they're like, that was sure stupid. You
[39:44] Speaker 2: could have won all the titles. I, you know, I'm
[39:46] Speaker 2: not going to criticize the guy for going somewhere and
[39:48] Speaker 2: then criticize him for leaving. Okay. All right, let's get
[39:51] Speaker 2: to it. One random rant. Say it again. No, no,
[39:54] Speaker 2: I thought you were ready to get down, but you
[39:56] Speaker 2: can go ahead with your rant. Well, no, we are
[39:58] Speaker 2: going to get to it, but just I have to
[40:00] Speaker 2: do say something because there is only one person on
[40:03] Speaker 2: this list that is in the top 10 that I
[40:05] Speaker 2: find galling, and that's Michael Phelps. And this is a
[40:13] Speaker 2: longstanding belief of mine, which is swimmers... are overrated historically
[40:21] Speaker 2: because of the surplus of metal opportunities available to them.
[40:27] Speaker 1: Yes.
[40:28] Speaker 2: Cause it's, it's just, you can't convince me that there's,
[40:31] Speaker 2: it's not, it's, you know, just a coincidence that my
[40:35] Speaker 2: whole life growing up, it's like the greatest Olympian ever spits.
[40:40] Speaker 2: And then the greatest Olympian ever Phelps and Ledecky. And
[40:44] Speaker 2: it's because like, as I've said before, If during bolt prime,
[40:49] Speaker 2: they're like, hey, man, you can win four golds in
[40:53] Speaker 2: the hundred. You're going to run it forwards, backwards, skip
[40:57] Speaker 2: and sideways and then felt bolts up there with 20 golds.
[41:02] Speaker 2: Like I just think so that I think that's they
[41:06] Speaker 2: cook the books in what's available to the swimmers at
[41:10] Speaker 2: the Olympics. That's all. Yes, I think that's fair.
[41:14] Speaker 1: And I had been there with you for a long time.
[41:17] Speaker 1: And I realized sometimes at points I had to stop
[41:19] Speaker 1: and ask myself if I was being like even a
[41:21] Speaker 1: little too pro-black for my own good.
[41:23] Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like a
[41:26] Speaker 2: lot of our.
[41:26] Speaker 3: American affection for swimming is a bit jingoistic with a touch.
[41:31] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[41:31] Speaker 2: Not quite schism, but exceptionalism. How about that? That's a
[41:34] Speaker 2: better way to put it.
[41:36] Speaker 1: But the more I talked to people who paid attention
[41:38] Speaker 1: to it and the fact that, and Ryan pointed this out,
[41:41] Speaker 1: he won a bunch of golds in 2004 and a
[41:43] Speaker 1: bunch of golds in 2016. That made me stop and say,
[41:47] Speaker 1: you know what? Even if we separate the eight gold
[41:49] Speaker 1: medals thing, that there's something to be said for what
[41:52] Speaker 1: he did while also acknowledging because his event takes place
[41:56] Speaker 1: in water and water is kinder on your joints, it
[41:58] Speaker 1: made it possible to do all this stuff.
[42:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, and it's a little tongue-in-cheek, but it's just,
[42:05] Speaker 2: I have no problem at all. This might shock you.
[42:08] Speaker 2: I have no problem at all with Bolt 1. I
[42:10] Speaker 2: think Bolt's the greatest athlete, arguably the greatest athlete to
[42:12] Speaker 2: ever live. I think it is, and... So like it was,
[42:17] Speaker 2: it's the people that elevate Phelps ahead of Bolt because
[42:20] Speaker 2: of the metal count that I find absolutely infuriating. I
[42:25] Speaker 2: think they all live in America, by the way.
[42:27] Speaker 1: I think they all live in America and half of
[42:30] Speaker 1: them have Caitlin Clark jerseys.
[42:32] Speaker 2: Okay. Patrick Mahomes behind Shohei Otani is, I think, the
[42:38] Speaker 2: worst sports take I've ever seen. I just want... I
[42:44] Speaker 2: don't even know what to say about it. I don't
[42:46] Speaker 2: even know how to... I saw it. I was like,
[42:49] Speaker 2: I don't even want to argue against it. It is
[42:52] Speaker 2: such an outrageous opinion. It's founded in nothing. It makes
[42:58] Speaker 2: me objectively mad that you have Patrick Mahomes behind Ohtani.
[43:02] Speaker 3: Okay, let me throw this out here at you, right?
[43:04] Speaker 3: Because I knew this was going to happen. I knew
[43:06] Speaker 3: this was going to happen.
[43:08] Speaker 1: What if Patrick Mahomes also... ran like Lamar Jackson. That
[43:15] Speaker 1: is Shohei Ohtani, analogous to baseball. It's not just that
[43:18] Speaker 1: he's a pitcher, it's that he was.
[43:20] Speaker 2: A great pitcher.
[43:21] Speaker 1: And 50-50, man. 50 home runs in Dodger Stadium is
[43:26] Speaker 1: crazy enough. Throw 50 steals on top of it? Hey, man,
[43:30] Speaker 1: he might be the greatest baseball player of all time.
[43:35] Speaker 2: So here's my only, and again, I'm not trying to
[43:37] Speaker 2: neg Shohei Ohtani. I I feel like he was in
[43:44] Speaker 2: route to that status, but the couple years without pitching
[43:51] Speaker 2: to where he went from, oh my God, you know,
[43:55] Speaker 2: this is Babe Ruth to a lesser, like the thing is,
[44:01] Speaker 2: Babe Ruth was this amazing pitcher and really good hitter.
[44:04] Speaker 2: Then he was just a hitter and was the greatest
[44:06] Speaker 2: hitter of all time. Otani was, you know, a minus
[44:10] Speaker 2: to a plus at both, then stop pitching and stay,
[44:14] Speaker 2: you know, got better as a hitter, but people could
[44:17] Speaker 2: argue he's the second best hitter in baseball. People could
[44:21] Speaker 2: have argued it was Aaron judge. Like that's a legitimate argument.
[44:24] Speaker 2: And so I just, for him with this relatively small
[44:30] Speaker 2: of a, I shouldn't say small cause it's around the
[44:32] Speaker 2: same length careers, my homes, but, uh, But in a
[44:36] Speaker 2: different sport. In a different sport and where he didn't...
[44:40] Speaker 2: He is... He needed to be a two-way player full-time
[44:46] Speaker 2: if he wasn't going to be year after year after year,
[44:50] Speaker 2: head and shoulders the best at one thing. And so
[44:53] Speaker 2: that's my only gripe. When I think Mahomes, I think
[44:58] Speaker 2: that because the last couple years, the regular season numbers
[45:03] Speaker 2: haven't been good. I think oddly Mahomes has become wildly underrated.
[45:08] Speaker 2: And that it is, people don't understand how utterly insane
[45:15] Speaker 2: it is that if he never plays again, he has
[45:19] Speaker 2: more playoff wins than everyone but Brady. More than Joe
[45:23] Speaker 2: freaking Montana. That he already has the second most conference
[45:30] Speaker 2: championship game appearances and Super Bowl appearances ever. of any
[45:34] Speaker 2: quarterback ever. That his app, the worst we have ever
[45:39] Speaker 2: seen him, is over the course of a total season,
[45:43] Speaker 2: 14 wins and a loss in a conference championship game.
[45:48] Speaker 2: That is where Mahomes is different than every other athlete
[45:53] Speaker 2: on this list. There is no dip. Aaron Donald, I
[45:57] Speaker 2: guess you could argue, but it's again, different position and
[46:00] Speaker 2: different impact on team success. where it has just been
[46:04] Speaker 2: record-breaking excellence every single moment. And his, you know, people
[46:10] Speaker 2: say last year was his worst year when his team
[46:13] Speaker 2: won 17 games en route to try and lost once
[46:17] Speaker 2: all year with him until the Super Bowl en route
[46:19] Speaker 2: to trying to become the first team ever to three-peat. Like,
[46:22] Speaker 2: it's just, it is, we've become a little numb to it.
[46:26] Speaker 2: So yeah, having him behind You know, again, I love
[46:31] Speaker 2: the Floyd I was hoping was going to be on here.
[46:33] Speaker 2: Serena is the greatest female athlete ever, in my opinion.
[46:36] Speaker 2: I know you have Biles ahead of her, so I'm
[46:38] Speaker 2: not going to take huge issue with that. But I
[46:40] Speaker 2: just think Mahomes has become and I wouldn't have Mahomes
[46:43] Speaker 2: ahead of Brady yet. I think he will get there,
[46:45] Speaker 2: but I wouldn't have him ahead of Brady yet. There
[46:47] Speaker 2: is someone I'd have ahead of Brady that you don't.
[46:50] Speaker 2: But I think Mahomes at 10 feels wrong.
[46:53] Speaker 1: OK, so I was a little torn because, you know,
[46:55] Speaker 1: look at this level, as I told people when we
[46:58] Speaker 1: got to this place in the list, everybody in the
[47:00] Speaker 1: top 10 has an argument for being the greatest of
[47:03] Speaker 1: all time in their sport. I don't know if I'd
[47:05] Speaker 1: say that all of them have an argument for being
[47:07] Speaker 1: number one on the list per se, but all of them,
[47:09] Speaker 1: that was the separating factor. Like everybody that got there,
[47:12] Speaker 1: the margins are, yes, going to.
[47:14] Speaker 2: Wind up being thin.
[47:15] Speaker 1: I think you're right because I made those points when
[47:17] Speaker 1: we kind of set it up about all the things
[47:19] Speaker 1: that Mahomes had done there.
[47:21] Speaker 2: In getting to this.
[47:22] Speaker 1: And I do think that we actually underrate how not
[47:26] Speaker 1: just great and not just consistently great.
[47:28] Speaker 2: It's all we know. Right. Like it's all we know.
[47:32] Speaker 1: Keeping in mind that as a first year starter, the
[47:35] Speaker 1: only way the Patriots could beat them was to do
[47:38] Speaker 1: something I've never seen in a football game.
[47:41] Speaker 2: Which is basically go ISO.
[47:42] Speaker 1: Gronk, take Rob Gronkowski, split them out wide against your
[47:45] Speaker 1: hall of fame safety.
[47:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[47:47] Speaker 1: I know he hadn't played all year, but still, and
[47:49] Speaker 1: just look, he just going to throw his hand up
[47:50] Speaker 1: and we just going to throw the ball to him
[47:52] Speaker 1: all the way down. Cause that's the only chance that
[47:53] Speaker 1: we have in the course of this game. And that
[47:55] Speaker 1: is with a dude who was the 10th pick in
[47:57] Speaker 1: the draft. This was not a sure thing that this
[48:00] Speaker 1: was not Andrew Luck coming into the league, right? Like
[48:03] Speaker 1: this wasn't Trevor Lawrence. This wasn't a guy that we
[48:05] Speaker 1: were certain it was going to happen. And so, uh,
[48:08] Speaker 1: I think all of that is correct. I think you
[48:10] Speaker 1: make a fairly good argument for him over Ohtani, and
[48:14] Speaker 1: you could for some of the other people as we
[48:16] Speaker 1: creep up on the list. But I knew you were
[48:19] Speaker 1: going to say something about this. So, I mean, why
[48:23] Speaker 1: not Tom Brady over LeBron? Here's why.
[48:29] Speaker 2: Don't hold back, by the way. Don't hold back. I'm
[48:31] Speaker 2: not holding back. I just want to phrase it exactly right.
[48:34] Speaker 2: There was... No, as has been proven out, I think.
[48:42] Speaker 2: There was absolutely no set of circumstances that was going
[48:47] Speaker 2: to lead to LeBron James being anything other than one of,
[48:53] Speaker 2: if not the single greatest player in the history of
[48:55] Speaker 2: his sport. And I would argue he got quite unlucky
[49:02] Speaker 2: with who drafted him, How they built that team, all
[49:08] Speaker 2: of that for the first half decade of his career
[49:13] Speaker 2: where he was probably at his athletic prime and had
[49:18] Speaker 2: to overcome it. Brady had the exact opposite. There are
[49:23] Speaker 2: a bunch of scenarios where Tom Brady does not... We
[49:31] Speaker 2: don't find out who Tom Brady is until he's 27
[49:36] Speaker 2: years old. There are a bunch of scenarios where Tom Brady,
[49:41] Speaker 2: if it's flatly, forget even if he gets on the
[49:46] Speaker 2: field early, if he is not with the coach and
[49:50] Speaker 2: the defense and the team that he was with early on,
[49:53] Speaker 2: he is in the early parts of the 2000s an afterthought.
[49:58] Speaker 2: And so when one guy has the perfect setup and
[50:03] Speaker 2: the other guy has close to the opposite, And they're
[50:07] Speaker 2: where they stand historically in their sports in the record
[50:11] Speaker 2: books is the same. I don't see the argument for
[50:16] Speaker 2: Tom over Bron. especially let me add one other thing,
[50:20] Speaker 2: especially when you made it clear you're in for cam,
[50:24] Speaker 2: you're including the whole career. Well, Bron was the best
[50:28] Speaker 2: high schooler in the world. Bron was the number one pick.
[50:32] Speaker 2: I care that Bron was on the cover of sports
[50:35] Speaker 2: illustrated and Brady was in a college quarterback battle at Michigan.
[50:39] Speaker 2: I care about that. All right.
[50:41] Speaker 1: Well, I would throw, I think I got three questions
[50:42] Speaker 1: out there for you. Number one, What if I were
[50:45] Speaker 1: to say that LeBron won one of his championships in
[50:48] Speaker 1: an empty gym and that thereby maybe delegitimizes it a
[50:51] Speaker 1: little bit?
[50:52] Speaker 2: Okay, well, what I would say is, I know you're
[50:56] Speaker 2: smarter than that and you don't actually believe that, but
[50:58] Speaker 2: I would remind you that Tom Brady won one of
[51:01] Speaker 2: his championships in the same exact scenario. Brady won- At
[51:07] Speaker 2: his home stadium. At a home stadium in the COVID year.
[51:13] Speaker 2: So I would say that I would, I would then
[51:15] Speaker 2: also say, and like, like, well, go ahead and keep going. No, no, no, no.
[51:19] Speaker 2: Keep saying it. Keep saying it. No, I just, I,
[51:23] Speaker 2: I feel like some of Tom's coaches, you know, on
[51:31] Speaker 2: the record cheating and You know what I mean? Is
[51:34] Speaker 2: at least a slight little, little, again, ding, if we're
[51:39] Speaker 2: comparing him to Bron. What's the question? Okay.
[51:42] Speaker 1: What if I said that nobody won four championships on
[51:46] Speaker 1: LeBron James, on Tom Brady's watch, the way Steph Curry
[51:49] Speaker 1: won four championships on LeBron James' watch?
[51:52] Speaker 2: Okay. So you're, see, I, I hate the on his
[51:57] Speaker 2: watch thing so much because this is actually a Jordan thing.
[52:02] Speaker 2: And then when I say things like, here is the
[52:06] Speaker 2: list of people who won championships on Michael Jordan's watch,
[52:10] Speaker 2: and that list is... Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird,
[52:14] Speaker 2: Isaiah Thomas, Akeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant.
[52:20] Speaker 1: Oh, because his watch didn't really start until like 1990s.
[52:22] Speaker 2: See, that's what I'm saying. That's what it became, his watch.
[52:24] Speaker 2: They're like, oh no, his watch started late and ended early.
[52:28] Speaker 1: Well, I don't say that Tim Duncan's won the 03, 05,
[52:32] Speaker 1: and 07s on LeBron's watch. In fact, I feel like
[52:34] Speaker 1: LeBron snuck in there before his watch even started. Well,
[52:38] Speaker 1: all right.
[52:40] Speaker 2: I do not... It's my opinion on Steph having those
[52:46] Speaker 2: titles actually only enhances my opinion of LeBron, which is
[52:52] Speaker 2: this guy, Steph, who is, in your opinion, the 11th
[52:57] Speaker 2: greatest athlete across sports of the last quarter century. That
[53:01] Speaker 2: guy was so utterly demoralized by LeBron that he had
[53:06] Speaker 2: to go get the 13th greatest athlete of the last
[53:08] Speaker 2: quarter century to come help him. And I will add
[53:13] Speaker 2: that it won't make the first page of the Hall
[53:17] Speaker 2: of Fame speech, but what should is, peak LeBron James
[53:22] Speaker 2: was so good that if you held him to 28
[53:27] Speaker 2: a game on 57% shooting, or if you held him
[53:32] Speaker 2: to 36, 13, and 9, they awarded you finals MVP.
[53:37] Speaker 2: They were like, holy shit, what a great job you
[53:39] Speaker 2: did on it.
[53:40] Speaker 1: That's fair, even if, you know, Tom Brady never let
[53:44] Speaker 1: a German win a championship in space.
[53:47] Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? No, let Nick Foles instead.
[53:50] Speaker 2: Nick Foles. Okay, okay. I have a third question for you.
[53:53] Speaker 2: A third question for you.
[53:55] Speaker 3: What if I told you that I didn't actually have
[53:57] Speaker 3: Tom Brady over LeBron James on this list, but we.
[54:00] Speaker 1: Just did that in the version that we sent to you? Oh,
[54:02] Speaker 1: my God.
[54:07] Speaker 2: Is that for real? Yes, it is. What an outrage.
[54:16] Speaker 2: So your top three is Bolt, Woods, Braun. It is, yeah.
[54:21] Speaker 3: Yes, it's Usain Bolt number one, Tiger Woods number two,
[54:25] Speaker 3: LeBron James number three. And by the way, it's really
[54:27] Speaker 3: kind of a tie with two and three.
[54:29] Speaker 1: Like I just, it was almost a coin flip on
[54:32] Speaker 1: that one.
[54:32] Speaker 3: But as I was doing this, I was like, what
[54:35] Speaker 3: would Nick do if he found out I put Tom
[54:38] Speaker 3: Brady over LeBron James?
[54:39] Speaker 2: There's only one way to find out. Oh my God. Well, you,
[54:44] Speaker 2: I was, I got to tell you, I was shocked.
[54:48] Speaker 2: And I just feel we are we're recording this right
[54:52] Speaker 2: before you unveil the top of the list. So it's
[54:54] Speaker 2: not that I haven't been following. It's just people will
[54:57] Speaker 2: hear this and think, why didn't I know? It's because
[54:59] Speaker 2: you guys played a dirty, dirty trick on me. Yes,
[55:01] Speaker 2: we did. In fact, the only.
[55:03] Speaker 3: Reason I played this dirty trick was the reason that
[55:05] Speaker 3: you just pointed out.
[55:06] Speaker 2: I was like, you'll never see it coming. You'll have
[55:08] Speaker 2: no way to understand that this is happening.
[55:12] Speaker 3: The hard part was trying to get you to really
[55:15] Speaker 3: lose your shit because you respect me a little bit
[55:17] Speaker 3: too much to actually do that.
[55:19] Speaker 2: It's two things. I respect you and, you know, by proxy,
[55:26] Speaker 2: I work with Tom. So like this is whenever like
[55:29] Speaker 2: Tom versus my home stuff comes up. I'm in a
[55:32] Speaker 2: very tricky spot because as evidenced by some of these
[55:37] Speaker 2: debates and it's unfortunate the way it works. Very often
[55:41] Speaker 2: when you're trying to say this guy was better than
[55:43] Speaker 2: that guy, you spend less time talking about the great
[55:46] Speaker 2: things about the guy you're arguing for and more time
[55:49] Speaker 2: like we forgot about this with the other great guy.
[55:53] Speaker 2: So I have to be careful. But yeah. All right. Well,
[55:55] Speaker 2: that's a dirty trick and I'm leaving now. All right.
[55:58] Speaker 2: Nick Wright. Check him out.
[55:59] Speaker 1: First things first. Three to five Eastern on FS1. Also,
[56:03] Speaker 1: the What's Right podcast available.
[56:05] Speaker 2: We're all fine. Podcasts are given away for free. My brother,
[56:07] Speaker 2: I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Please subscribe to
[56:10] Speaker 2: the pod. And starting football, first things first will be
[56:13] Speaker 2: three to six. There we go. Yeah, so that'll be dope.
[56:16] Speaker 2: All right, appreciate you. Love you both. See you soon.
[56:18] Speaker 2: All right, man. Love you too, brother.
[56:19] Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here
[56:20] Speaker 1: on The Right Time. We do this three times a week.
[56:23] Speaker 1: Ryan Brumley handles everything behind the scenes.
[56:24] Speaker 2: Thank you, sir.
[56:25] Speaker 1: Remember, follow The Right Time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us.
[56:29] Speaker 1: Give us five stars. You only give us four stars,
[56:31] Speaker 1: it'll be like you put Tom Brady over LeBron James.
[56:34] Speaker 2: See you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.

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