# Vinnie Goodwill on Embiid's & 76ers last stand, Knicks' title chances, NBA lottery reform | 04.29

An episode of [The Right Time with Bomani Jones](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/982639043), 29 Apr 2026, 1 h 02 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/370fc844-36bd-4f61-8b8f-b4bb010de39a/04a1f10f-08bd-4b74-bb2f-b4bb011379b8/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=919a7cbe-003c-4146-b592-b4bb010de3a5

Bomani and Vinny Goodwill unpack an NBA postseason that makes no sense in the best way. Bomani Jones is joined by ESPN’s Vinnie Goodwill to talk through why this Knicks team has no excuse not to make the NBA Finals, the delicate balance between Jalen Brunson’s usage and unlocking Karl-Anthony Towns, and whether Boston’s ceiling is lower than people want to admit with this version of Jason Tatum coming off the Achilles injury. From there, they dive into Victor Wembanyama’s terrifying playoff debut, why the Spurs already look ahead of schedule, and how Oklahoma City vs. San Antonio feels like a looming Western Conference war. They also hit LeBron, KD, and the aging superstar class who can still hit the “high notes” for one night even if they can’t live there anymore. Later, Bomani and Vinnie break down Adam Silver’s new anti‑tanking lottery rules, what it means for franchises like Detroit and Orlando, and why conditioning young stars to lose might be the most underrated failure of “The Process” era in Philly. Plus, what the league should actually be embarrassed by, and why Steve Ballmer’s Kawhi situation is way more complicated than internet outrage allows. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: Wave.
[0:09] Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time. A wave original.
[0:13] Speaker 2: My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
[0:15] Speaker 2: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
[0:19] Speaker 2: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
[0:22] Speaker 2: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
[0:24] Speaker 2: a hater. It is the time of week where we
[0:26] Speaker 2: have a guest join us, coming to us live from ESPN.
[0:31] Speaker 2: He be on all the ESPN shows. Now, boy, that
[0:34] Speaker 2: boy Vinny Goodwill. Well, Vince Goodwill be on TV. You
[0:37] Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? Vinny Goodwill over here hanging out
[0:39] Speaker 2: with us.
[0:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, the rebrand, as Malika Andrews calls it. I'm like,
[0:46] Speaker 1: it's not a rebrand. The graphic will forever say it.
[0:50] Speaker 1: the birth name and whatever y'all call me, it's going
[0:52] Speaker 1: to be what y'all call me. Yeah.
[0:54] Speaker 2: Yeah. You, yeah, you, you ride out more. It depends
[0:57] Speaker 2: on where you are names right now. The antibiotics. I
[1:00] Speaker 2: think I told you about my brother. My brother's name
[1:02] Speaker 2: is Patrice, Patrice Lumumba. He is Lumumba. If you know
[1:06] Speaker 2: him from growing up, um, if you know him from
[1:09] Speaker 2: adult life, he is Patrice, but there's this very interesting
[1:13] Speaker 2: in between period when he was in college and he
[1:16] Speaker 2: was Patrick. Oh, And so when people call up, like
[1:21] Speaker 2: back when people used to call the whole phone for Christmas,
[1:23] Speaker 2: we could tell if they were calling from my brother,
[1:25] Speaker 2: we had a very good handle on where they were
[1:29] Speaker 2: from life based on whatever the name was that got called.
[1:33] Speaker 2: You right now, like it's all over the place.
[1:37] Speaker 1: Well, if you call me Vince, like that's the tale.
[1:40] Speaker 1: The tale is if you call me Vince, then... somebody's
[1:44] Speaker 1: probably like, you don't know this guy very well. You're
[1:48] Speaker 1: new here. You know what I mean?
[1:50] Speaker 2: Or they are facetiously trying to needle you, as I
[1:53] Speaker 2: have witnessed with my own eyes before.
[1:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Nick fans, they just call me Goodwill. Like,
[2:00] Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you just become your last name
[2:02] Speaker 1: when people are yelling at you through a tunnel. and
[2:06] Speaker 1: asking you of your thoughts. It ain't Vincent, it ain't Vinny,
[2:09] Speaker 1: it is just Goodwill.
[2:10] Speaker 2: But also, Goodwill is a good, like, Goodwill's a name
[2:13] Speaker 2: where people will call you by your last name, right? Like,
[2:15] Speaker 2: it's a name that's got a ring to it. Like,
[2:18] Speaker 2: it's the sort of thing where people will, like, especially
[2:20] Speaker 2: depending on the circles you're in, yeah, you'll be Goodwill.
[2:22] Speaker 2: New York is a place where you call people by
[2:24] Speaker 2: last names, too. That's the other part of it.
[2:26] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I ain't tripping on that. Like, when I
[2:28] Speaker 1: lived in Chicago, it was, they would call me Detroit.
[2:30] Speaker 1: I was like, why y'all calling me by that?
[2:32] Speaker 2: Because you were trolling them. I mean, Because you were
[2:37] Speaker 2: covering the Bulls and you were trolling them.
[2:40] Speaker 1: I was trolling Scottie Pippen. I was trolling a very
[2:43] Speaker 1: specific sect of the Bulls.
[2:46] Speaker 2: That's all. Okay. That's a great story, dawg. Great story, dawg.
[2:50] Speaker 2: Speaking of great story, you've been on this here New
[2:53] Speaker 2: York Knicks beat, which, before we get to the basketball,
[2:56] Speaker 2: I love it. That just has to be interesting for you. Like,
[2:59] Speaker 2: you are now... Remember, like, we had caught up with Monica.
[3:01] Speaker 2: It was the night of... Bronny got drafted in the
[3:04] Speaker 2: Joe Biden debate.
[3:06] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[3:06] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[3:07] Speaker 2: But it was, I remember I was talking to you
[3:08] Speaker 2: about this. I was like, look what happens when we
[3:10] Speaker 2: go out with Monica. Like we go out with Monica.
[3:12] Speaker 2: I've been on television for a very long time. None
[3:15] Speaker 2: of that matters in New York city with Monica McNutt
[3:17] Speaker 2: because she covers the Knicks. Right. Like, like she is,
[3:20] Speaker 2: she is the one there. You now, you are now
[3:23] Speaker 2: a cover the Knicks guy in New York city.
[3:26] Speaker 1: Which is weird to me because for one, we were
[3:28] Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Monica, David Dennis, a few of us out
[3:31] Speaker 1: of some restaurant. And people were like, Monica is like there.
[3:37] Speaker 2: Monica's a star, Jack.
[3:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a different, and you know, we
[3:40] Speaker 1: love Monica around here. You know what I mean? But
[3:43] Speaker 1: it was kind of funny. And then they said, you
[3:46] Speaker 1: could hear somebody in the background say, oh yeah, that's
[3:47] Speaker 1: my man from first take. And I'm looking at David
[3:50] Speaker 1: Dennis like, I think they talking about you, dog. Like
[3:53] Speaker 1: he was the only light at the table. So I'm like, yeah,
[3:56] Speaker 1: this is probably your thing. But yeah, the problem with
[4:00] Speaker 1: Nick fans is that they think, Bo- that I'm a
[4:03] Speaker 1: Piston fan just because the Pistons had kicked the Knicks
[4:07] Speaker 1: ass this year. So now that the Pistons are down 3-1,
[4:09] Speaker 1: what you going to say about the Pistons? The same
[4:13] Speaker 1: shit I said before the playoffs started, that they was
[4:15] Speaker 1: going to have problems because of what they're going through.
[4:19] Speaker 1: The Knicks being good, it's good for business for me.
[4:22] Speaker 1: Either way, baby. It don't matter.
[4:25] Speaker 2: You know what it is, though? You got here a
[4:26] Speaker 2: little bit late. Because when I got here, man, they
[4:28] Speaker 2: had been so beat down and down and out, man.
[4:30] Speaker 2: They was just hoping you'd say the littlest thing nice
[4:32] Speaker 2: about what might happen to their team, man. That's why
[4:34] Speaker 2: I started to rock with them, man, because they was humble.
[4:36] Speaker 2: what I got here. I don't know how humble they
[4:38] Speaker 2: still are. Cause I was out there kind of posted
[4:40] Speaker 2: up around the arena yesterday before the game, just, you know,
[4:43] Speaker 2: taking in the vibes before I went to dinner.
[4:45] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[4:46] Speaker 2: They ain't, they ain't quite as humble as, as they
[4:48] Speaker 2: were when I first got here.
[4:49] Speaker 1: They're annoying. Like that's what they want. Don't say that.
[4:54] Speaker 2: Don't say that. Don't say that.
[4:56] Speaker 1: They need the validation. Like there's nothing more. There's nothing more.
[5:03] Speaker 1: And you notice from different fan bases, from whatever, let's
[5:06] Speaker 1: say college football, they want you to bow down and say,
[5:10] Speaker 1: tell us we're good. Tell us we're good.
[5:12] Speaker 2: No, no, but it's not that they want you to
[5:14] Speaker 2: bow down.
[5:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, they do.
[5:16] Speaker 2: No, they want you to help raise them up. I
[5:20] Speaker 2: am in the moment teaching you how to optimistically discuss
[5:25] Speaker 2: the people you are going to encounter on the streets
[5:29] Speaker 2: in your daily life.
[5:31] Speaker 1: You know what it is, though? Most of the people
[5:35] Speaker 1: are generally okay. It's the people online that are.
[5:40] Speaker 2: A bit chesty. That's a different situation.
[5:42] Speaker 1: And you know what the funny thing is? When you're
[5:45] Speaker 1: in Madison Square Garden, of course, because they sit us
[5:47] Speaker 1: up high because they don't want us anywhere near anybody.
[5:49] Speaker 1: So we sit closer to the rafters. So on one end,
[5:53] Speaker 1: you got all those retired jerseys for the Rangers. You
[5:56] Speaker 1: got all those banners for the New York Rangers, Stanley Cups,
[6:00] Speaker 1: and all this other type of stuff, you look up
[6:03] Speaker 1: over your head and you're like, huh, Walt Frazier, Patrick Ewing,
[6:08] Speaker 1: Willis Reed, that's it?
[6:10] Speaker 2: No, see, you're overstating the situation, though. They just did
[6:14] Speaker 2: a run fairly recently of jersey retirements for the Rangers,
[6:18] Speaker 2: number one. Like, that's a big thing. Number two, keep
[6:21] Speaker 2: in mind, the Rangers have won two Stanley Cups in
[6:24] Speaker 2: the last 75 years.
[6:24] Speaker 1: Two.
[6:27] Speaker 2: Like the Knicks and the Rangers, low key the same.
[6:31] Speaker 2: Like when you start talking about New York sports outside
[6:33] Speaker 2: of the Yankees, the situation is a little bit more
[6:36] Speaker 2: sparse than it is given credit for being. Now, I
[6:39] Speaker 2: don't know how much you remember this. We have a
[6:42] Speaker 2: not big age difference, but this is enough where it
[6:44] Speaker 2: might matter. I don't know if you remember what a
[6:46] Speaker 2: big deal it was when the Rangers won the Stanley
[6:48] Speaker 2: Cup in 1994.
[6:50] Speaker 1: Yeah like it.
[6:50] Speaker 2: Was a dominating sports story and the idea was the
[6:54] Speaker 2: rangers had not won the stanley cup in 54 years
[6:59] Speaker 2: how long has it been since the knicks won the
[7:02] Speaker 2: nba championship.
[7:04] Speaker 1: What 55 53 73 was the last time.
[7:06] Speaker 2: They did so We don't talk about their championship gap
[7:14] Speaker 2: in those terms. Where with the Rangers, and I think
[7:16] Speaker 2: it was more jarring with the Rangers because for a
[7:20] Speaker 2: decent period of that time, there were only six teams
[7:22] Speaker 2: in the league, right? So you've got a zillion from Montreal.
[7:25] Speaker 2: Toronto has a zillion. The Rangers, I want to say
[7:27] Speaker 2: in some total, have three or something like that. But
[7:30] Speaker 2: it's been 53 years. We don't talk about it like
[7:33] Speaker 2: it's a curse. We don't talk about it like it's misery.
[7:36] Speaker 2: We just, like, we treat the Knicks like they're a
[7:38] Speaker 2: venerable franchise in the history of the NBA. And that's
[7:41] Speaker 2: actually not true. They don't have the stripes that line
[7:44] Speaker 2: up with that, right? But they had the best, I contend,
[7:49] Speaker 2: as annoying as they can be in their out of town,
[7:51] Speaker 2: in town Knicks fans, they're probably the best basketball fans
[7:54] Speaker 2: that you're going to find. They got the best vibe
[7:55] Speaker 2: in an arena. that you're going to find. They have
[7:58] Speaker 2: a team this year that has, if they don't go
[8:01] Speaker 2: to the NBA finals, there's no excuse, right? I don't
[8:03] Speaker 2: think it's a championship team, but they're good enough to
[8:06] Speaker 2: win the East this year. And they got out here
[8:09] Speaker 2: playing against the Hawks. And I remember watching game three
[8:12] Speaker 2: and it was just like, well, shit, somebody has to
[8:14] Speaker 2: win this game. It's just going to be either the
[8:16] Speaker 2: Knicks or the Hawks.
[8:18] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the crazy thing, I've been saying the
[8:22] Speaker 1: Knicks should get to the NBA finals all season long.
[8:25] Speaker 1: And the Knicks think that I'm trolling them as if, like, wait,
[8:28] Speaker 1: shouldn't you want high expectations?
[8:30] Speaker 2: No, no, because they feel like you're just saying that
[8:33] Speaker 2: so that if they don't make it, you can take
[8:35] Speaker 2: them down. Like, I got a friend named Joel. He
[8:38] Speaker 2: do stuff like that. That's what they afraid of.
[8:41] Speaker 1: Joel is diabolical.
[8:43] Speaker 2: Joel is so diabolical. Joel is trying to make sure
[8:47] Speaker 2: no matter what, he is not on the side of
[8:49] Speaker 2: the L. Nobody is better at putting a little buddy
[8:53] Speaker 2: on this side and a little buddy on that side
[8:55] Speaker 2: than my man, Joel Anderson.
[8:58] Speaker 1: Look, for one, Joel is hilarious, right? What's the whole
[9:03] Speaker 1: thing that he's about to do or he's going to do?
[9:05] Speaker 1: He's going to train and run against somebody.
[9:07] Speaker 2: He's going to race.
[9:08] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[9:09] Speaker 2: It was my idea.
[9:10] Speaker 1: Why would you do that?
[9:12] Speaker 2: Because Billy is a D1 athlete. Joel is a D1 athlete.
[9:16] Speaker 2: The only thing is I feel like Joel's about 10,
[9:19] Speaker 2: 12 years older than Billy. But Joel needs something to
[9:24] Speaker 2: look forward to.
[9:26] Speaker 1: And you're trolling Joel.
[9:27] Speaker 2: No, I'm not trolling Joel at all.
[9:29] Speaker 1: Okay.
[9:30] Speaker 2: No, I'm literally not trolling Joel at all. I knew
[9:32] Speaker 2: that he would be up for a challenge like that. Like,
[9:35] Speaker 2: I've talked to him about this. He will get in
[9:37] Speaker 2: shape for it and stuff like that. This is the
[9:38] Speaker 2: kind of thing that Joel likes. These kinds of things
[9:40] Speaker 2: make Joel happy.
[9:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I am quietly,
[9:45] Speaker 1: secretly competitive, but only at like certain things. So if
[9:50] Speaker 1: it's in that realm, then I'm probably just as motivated
[9:53] Speaker 1: to get my shit right. So I'm 100% with you.
[9:55] Speaker 2: I decided in my teens that my competitors... streak was
[10:00] Speaker 2: actually not good for me as a person and just
[10:03] Speaker 2: decided to move on a path of self-actualization, right? Not
[10:07] Speaker 2: really thinking that much about the rest of y'all, just
[10:09] Speaker 2: being on mine. But it is fun when every now
[10:12] Speaker 2: and then something happens in this life.
[10:15] Speaker 1: All right, then.
[10:16] Speaker 2: I guess that's what we're going to do. Cool.
[10:19] Speaker 1: Himbo brings it out of me.
[10:21] Speaker 2: Himbo brings it out of me bad.
[10:23] Speaker 1: Himbo brings it out of me with the questions. And
[10:26] Speaker 1: I get heated. I remember every question.
[10:28] Speaker 2: For people who don't know, Himbo is the researcher on
[10:31] Speaker 2: Get Up, and he does the trivia questions every day.
[10:34] Speaker 2: And he's good, man. He got Graziato be handing his
[10:37] Speaker 2: hand to him.
[10:39] Speaker 1: But, you know. Every question I've gotten wrong. I've gotten
[10:43] Speaker 1: Mark Eaton wrong. I've gotten Allen Iverson wrong. I've gotten
[10:47] Speaker 1: Derrick Rose wrong. You want to know why I remember
[10:49] Speaker 1: that stuff? Because I am furious that I got it wrong.
[10:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, Vinny is a basketball encyclopedia. Like, it is amazing
[10:56] Speaker 2: the ability to, like, pull, oh, that series in 1997? No, no,
[11:00] Speaker 2: they won that in six. Like, Vinny got it like that.
[11:04] Speaker 2: Things that are prior to his frame of reference, one
[11:06] Speaker 2: would think, Vinny got it like that. But about these Knicks, though.
[11:10] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[11:11] Speaker 2: They won game five, and that was a pretty emphatic
[11:13] Speaker 2: win in game five to go along with a pretty
[11:15] Speaker 2: emphatic win in game four. And I've been saying on here,
[11:18] Speaker 2: the tricky thing for the Knicks is they can only
[11:21] Speaker 2: go as far as people want them to if Carl
[11:23] Speaker 2: Anthony Towns is their best player and approaching ceiling, because
[11:26] Speaker 2: the ceiling on Jalen Brunson just isn't as high as
[11:28] Speaker 2: the ceiling on Carl Anthony Towns, who the more we
[11:30] Speaker 2: think about this through this series, through this postseason, I
[11:34] Speaker 2: feel like the only team that might have somebody who
[11:36] Speaker 2: could guard him is Detroit, and they're not going to
[11:39] Speaker 2: go that far.
[11:40] Speaker 1: No. The crazy thing about Towns is Towns has had
[11:45] Speaker 1: two great games, game four and game five. Bo, how
[11:49] Speaker 1: many shots do you think that Carl Towns has taken
[11:52] Speaker 1: in some total the last two games?
[11:56] Speaker 2: It's not that high a number.
[11:58] Speaker 1: No, it's 17. Ten shots in game four, seven in
[12:03] Speaker 1: game five. Seven shots. I get Jalen Brunson scored 17
[12:06] Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter to push it to a 30-point
[12:09] Speaker 1: lead or whatever it was, but This imbalance, and Carl
[12:14] Speaker 1: hit the triple-double in game four, so he had a
[12:16] Speaker 1: decent amount of touches, and he set up OGN and
[12:18] Speaker 1: OB for a lot. But this has been the question
[12:22] Speaker 1: all season long. Since I started hanging around this team
[12:24] Speaker 1: a little bit more, like usually I'm on Eastern Conference,
[12:26] Speaker 1: but I live in New York, so I'm going to
[12:27] Speaker 1: see them a lot more. The question is, how do
[12:31] Speaker 1: you give Carl Towns the amount of touches that his
[12:35] Speaker 1: talent demands without putting him in positions where he feels
[12:38] Speaker 1: like he got to force his offense? You know, it's
[12:41] Speaker 1: a real delicate walk. But seven shots, even in a
[12:45] Speaker 1: 30-point win, ain't going to get it done next round
[12:48] Speaker 1: against the Celtics. Like, there is something. And it's an
[12:53] Speaker 1: impactful seven shots. He was five of seven. You know
[12:56] Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, he has the range. And I've
[12:59] Speaker 1: come to be more sympathetic towards Carl Towns. Like, You know,
[13:06] Speaker 1: I think since that Minnesota-Denver series a couple years ago,
[13:09] Speaker 1: where he did a lot of the work guarding Nikola
[13:11] Speaker 1: Jokic in that seven-game series, I've started to look at
[13:14] Speaker 1: Carl Towns a little bit, a little with different set
[13:17] Speaker 1: of eyes, right? Like, he's maddeningly frustrating, right? He's frustrating
[13:22] Speaker 1: as all hell. But he's also playing on a team
[13:25] Speaker 1: that does not prioritize him. And they need him to
[13:28] Speaker 1: be the best version of himself if they're going to
[13:31] Speaker 1: get to the finals. They need him to be a
[13:33] Speaker 1: plus-plus player. Against the Celtics. Because as high low variance
[13:39] Speaker 1: as the Celtics are, who going to be guarding Carl
[13:42] Speaker 1: Towns in that series?
[13:43] Speaker 2: They have guys that can guard Jalen Brunson.
[13:45] Speaker 1: Yes.
[13:47] Speaker 2: I'm not saying Jalen Brunson is the same as Isaiah
[13:53] Speaker 2: with two A's, Thomas.
[13:54] Speaker 1: Yes.
[13:55] Speaker 2: I'm not saying he's the same as him. But obviously,
[13:58] Speaker 2: because he's a much bigger player. But still, the thing
[14:00] Speaker 2: about the smaller guard is there's a heated-up ceiling of
[14:04] Speaker 2: what I can do in this game ceiling and a
[14:05] Speaker 2: feeling that you go a little bit farther in this,
[14:08] Speaker 2: and that's just not going to work out the same way.
[14:10] Speaker 2: With Towns, he's either going to be bigger than anybody
[14:13] Speaker 2: you ask to guard him or quicker than anybody you
[14:15] Speaker 2: ask to guard him, aside from the dude in San Antonio.
[14:19] Speaker 1: Right?
[14:20] Speaker 2: Like, that's the only guy that you think would be
[14:22] Speaker 2: able to handle him in both places.
[14:25] Speaker 1: Otherwise.
[14:27] Speaker 2: I just feel like he should be destroying these dudes.
[14:31] Speaker 2: We talk about the Hawks ain't got nobody that has
[14:35] Speaker 2: enough size to deal with him. And I know Mike
[14:39] Speaker 2: Brown kind of wants to run a motion sort of situation,
[14:42] Speaker 2: but that motion ain't creating a world that stops Jalen
[14:44] Speaker 2: Brunson from taking 23 shots and nobody else takes more
[14:46] Speaker 2: than eight.
[14:48] Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. And if it's different, like Carl Towns,
[14:52] Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, is third in shots in this series,
[14:56] Speaker 1: not just behind Jalen Brunson, but behind OG Ananobi. And
[15:01] Speaker 1: OG's playing extremely well. I'm not, like, OG is very
[15:05] Speaker 1: unsung in his way. But you got to be able
[15:08] Speaker 1: to figure out a way to me to get, hey, Carl, look, man,
[15:12] Speaker 1: we know we can't just throw you the ball in
[15:13] Speaker 1: the post and just say, hey, man, go to work. Like,
[15:15] Speaker 1: he's not that type of player. You don't give him
[15:18] Speaker 1: sort of the maximum amount of touches in one spot
[15:20] Speaker 1: and say, take us home. He's the guy you got.
[15:23] Speaker 1: He's almost like To some degree, remember what you used
[15:26] Speaker 1: to say about Carmelo. When Carmelo had a point guard,
[15:30] Speaker 1: it was always the best you would get out of him.
[15:32] Speaker 1: He'd get some in the post. He'd get some on
[15:34] Speaker 1: the wing. He'd get some on the elbow. He'd get
[15:36] Speaker 1: a variety of touches in a bunch of different ways
[15:39] Speaker 1: with somebody who was going to tell him no and
[15:41] Speaker 1: somebody who was going to direct him. Jalen Brunson is
[15:44] Speaker 1: not that type of point guard. That's no shade to him,
[15:46] Speaker 1: but he's an aggressively offensive point guard that's going to
[15:50] Speaker 1: look for his shot first. his pick and roll game,
[15:53] Speaker 1: excuse me, where Carl Thompson's gotten better, but his game
[15:56] Speaker 1: is in, I'm going to put a lot of pressure
[15:58] Speaker 1: on this defense and I'm going to take shots. That's fine.
[16:02] Speaker 1: Once again, the problem is how can you maximize Towns
[16:06] Speaker 1: while also making sure Brunson gets his, while also figuring
[16:09] Speaker 1: out how do you keep all these other guys involved?
[16:12] Speaker 1: Because I say it, we say it all the time.
[16:15] Speaker 1: It's not breaking glass here. A team that has a
[16:18] Speaker 1: problem with defending at the point of attack, and defending
[16:22] Speaker 1: at the rim, those teams don't win championships, right? Like
[16:25] Speaker 1: you can have a liability one, but not the other.
[16:27] Speaker 1: I think Carl is better at defending the rim than
[16:31] Speaker 1: he is giving credit for. I think Carl in space
[16:35] Speaker 1: is where you get some adventure, but they try not
[16:38] Speaker 1: to put him there too much. That's why I still
[16:42] Speaker 1: believe the Knicks have the highest ceiling of any team
[16:45] Speaker 1: left in the Eastern Conference. It's just a matter of
[16:49] Speaker 1: can they access said ceiling with how they play?
[16:52] Speaker 2: Now, why would you say that the Celtics don't have
[16:54] Speaker 2: the ceiling that the Knicks have?
[16:57] Speaker 1: Because I don't know in general. I think if Derek
[17:01] Speaker 1: White were better, right? And I'm not saying Derek White
[17:05] Speaker 1: is bad or anything like that. But usually your third
[17:08] Speaker 1: best player eats off the attention of your first two
[17:11] Speaker 1: best players. Like he was having a horrific shooting season
[17:16] Speaker 1: before Jason Tatum got back. And when Tatum got back
[17:19] Speaker 1: I said to myself, oh, it's not going to be
[17:21] Speaker 1: Jalen Brown that feasts off the attention that Tatum gets.
[17:24] Speaker 1: It's not even going to be Tatum that feasts off
[17:26] Speaker 1: the attention that Jalen gets. It's going to be that
[17:28] Speaker 1: third guy because who has three good perimeter defenders? Nobody.
[17:33] Speaker 1: Not really. Maybe even the Knicks do if they shift
[17:36] Speaker 1: their lineups. He's supposed to feast off of that. He's
[17:39] Speaker 1: shooting worse with Jason Tatum back. He's shooting 30% from
[17:43] Speaker 1: three since March 6th.
[17:45] Speaker 2: And they were ignoring him last night or Tuesday night.
[17:48] Speaker 2: They were ignoring him.
[17:50] Speaker 1: So if that's the case, and remember, this was a
[17:53] Speaker 1: thing a couple of years ago in the finals against
[17:56] Speaker 1: Golden State where you had that really good game one
[17:58] Speaker 1: and then you're looking around the rest of the series
[18:00] Speaker 1: and they're like, do it again, do it again, do
[18:03] Speaker 1: it again. And he couldn't replicate it, right? So I
[18:06] Speaker 1: wonder if you are the Knicks and that's your ace
[18:09] Speaker 1: in the hole, I do think that's a slightly higher
[18:13] Speaker 1: ceiling in addition to the fact I want to see
[18:16] Speaker 1: Jason Tatum play every other day. I want to see
[18:20] Speaker 1: Jason Tatum start to move laterally with the atrophy and
[18:23] Speaker 1: everything else. I just want to see it. No team
[18:26] Speaker 1: in the Eastern Conference, even if Detroit was all the
[18:29] Speaker 1: way right, no team in the Eastern Conference is far
[18:32] Speaker 1: and away better than anybody else. Anybody can be beat.
[18:36] Speaker 1: You can see scenarios where the Celtics got to the finals,
[18:39] Speaker 1: the Knicks got to the finals, the Cavs got to
[18:41] Speaker 1: the finals. The only team I truly didn't see getting
[18:44] Speaker 1: to the finals this year was Detroit because of the
[18:46] Speaker 1: deficiencies that have popped up now. They just happened to
[18:49] Speaker 1: pop up a round or two earlier than I thought
[18:51] Speaker 1: they would.
[18:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, the Celtics thing is interesting to me because I
[18:55] Speaker 2: feel like Tatum, maybe Tatum is to a degree in
[18:57] Speaker 2: the Kevin Durant space in this way.
[19:00] Speaker 1: Um.
[19:01] Speaker 2: The difference between Durant and Tatum is Tatum's shots all
[19:05] Speaker 2: look hard. Durant's shots all look easy. Kevin Durant is
[19:10] Speaker 2: better at getting good shots than Jason Tatum is. Jason
[19:12] Speaker 2: Tatum is from the Kobe system school of being good
[19:16] Speaker 2: at hard shots. We'd agree on that. But Kevin Durant
[19:20] Speaker 2: has not been the same player since he tore his Achilles.
[19:24] Speaker 2: But it sure looks like it. The nature of his
[19:28] Speaker 2: game and the way it goes, it sure looks like it.
[19:30] Speaker 2: Tatum sure looks very similar to the player that he
[19:34] Speaker 2: was before he got hurt. But he's not actually that player.
[19:39] Speaker 2: I think if you look at it more numerically, look
[19:41] Speaker 2: at advanced stats stuff, he's not exactly that guy. But
[19:45] Speaker 2: it sure looks like it. And at times it can
[19:47] Speaker 2: feel like it. And for me, that can make it
[19:50] Speaker 2: somewhat difficult to evaluate Boston like I recorded a pod
[19:52] Speaker 2: yesterday with some people and I was just like yeah
[19:54] Speaker 2: the Celtics gonna win the East because Jason Tatum came
[19:56] Speaker 2: back looking like Jason Tatum but has he actually come
[19:59] Speaker 2: back looking like Jason Tatum because I know that's been
[20:01] Speaker 2: your question from the very beginning it's just once we
[20:03] Speaker 2: start doing this in the postseason then what are we
[20:05] Speaker 2: talking It's.
[20:07] Speaker 1: Atrophy, man. And just in general, like I asked Mike
[20:10] Speaker 1: Brown last night after they won, I'm like, look, you've
[20:13] Speaker 1: got a game five that you just took care of business.
[20:16] Speaker 1: You got a game six in two days. The Celtics
[20:18] Speaker 1: just lost. They got a game six in two days.
[20:20] Speaker 1: How much is rest? And he's like, rest is important
[20:23] Speaker 1: because the games are so much more physical in the
[20:26] Speaker 1: playoffs that you got to get guys off their feet. Now,
[20:29] Speaker 1: imagine if you're a guy coming back from an Achilles. Like,
[20:32] Speaker 1: this is still, to me, extended rehab for Jason Tatum.
[20:36] Speaker 1: I'm not saying that he shouldn't be playing. I'm saying
[20:40] Speaker 1: that what he is doing is still in the process
[20:43] Speaker 1: of figuring out his body and all the steps. And
[20:45] Speaker 1: the Kevin Durant thing, comparison you've made, is critical to me.
[20:50] Speaker 1: Because if you go look at some Kevin Durant film from, say, 2014,
[20:55] Speaker 1: like before the Liz Frank injury, people forget he even
[20:57] Speaker 1: had the Liz Frank. When you go look at that film,
[21:00] Speaker 1: it looks like he's playing on 1.5 speed. You don't
[21:03] Speaker 1: remember him being that upright, that quick, that, you know
[21:08] Speaker 1: what I mean, like end-to-end fast. Now he's more, you
[21:12] Speaker 1: got to rev it up, he's going to dribble, he's
[21:13] Speaker 1: going to get to a spot, and there's probably nothing
[21:14] Speaker 1: you can do about it type of thing. If he
[21:16] Speaker 1: hits the shot, he hits the shot, you shake his hand.
[21:18] Speaker 1: Like Tatum never had that burst of athleticism, even at 6'10.
[21:23] Speaker 1: He was just going to shoot over the top of you,
[21:26] Speaker 1: and if he hit a turnaround over the opposite shoulder,
[21:29] Speaker 1: whatever it was, then you could live with that. The
[21:32] Speaker 1: defense gets better. As you go along, you get more
[21:36] Speaker 1: fatigued as you go along. And, yeah, that's the question
[21:40] Speaker 1: that I have. Dude, they missed the last 15 shots
[21:43] Speaker 1: last night against a team in Philly that I thought
[21:46] Speaker 1: was ready to go home.
[21:48] Speaker 2: Hey, man, shout out to Joel for dialing it up
[21:50] Speaker 2: one more time. You know what I mean? It's hard
[21:55] Speaker 2: to expect anything from him going forward. That's not to
[21:59] Speaker 2: say he can't do it. But you can't count on it.
[22:01] Speaker 2: You can't rely on it. Just because of what we've
[22:03] Speaker 2: seen the previous 12 years, really 13, you know, when
[22:06] Speaker 2: it comes to his body and everything else. But he
[22:09] Speaker 2: was that dude, right? Like, at his best, he is
[22:12] Speaker 2: a legitimate contender for being the best player in the NBA.
[22:14] Speaker 2: And it's cool to see him, even if it's just
[22:16] Speaker 2: for one game and it had a lot to do
[22:18] Speaker 2: with the Celtics not being able to make nothing. It's
[22:20] Speaker 2: good that he could dial it up for that one night.
[22:23] Speaker 1: Look, I think most of these playoffs, or at least
[22:26] Speaker 1: the discussion, has been about teams or players who could
[22:29] Speaker 1: dial it up for one night, who could give you
[22:32] Speaker 1: in a different game, in a given game, they could
[22:36] Speaker 1: be as good or as great as they ever were.
[22:38] Speaker 1: LeBron can be as good or as great as he
[22:41] Speaker 1: ever was. I think some of the conversation... Well....
[22:48] Speaker 3: Can.
[22:49] Speaker 1: Can. Right. Can. Can. Not sure if he can hit
[22:52] Speaker 1: those high notes, right? But, you know, it's there. Like,
[22:56] Speaker 1: I think the LeBron conversation has gotten a bit over
[22:58] Speaker 1: the top because when you look at the light, like
[23:02] Speaker 1: this is a different, he's going against a really inexperienced
[23:05] Speaker 1: team right now that is being undermined probably by his
[23:08] Speaker 1: head coach. You know what I mean? But in a
[23:11] Speaker 1: given night, LeBron can be as good as he ever was.
[23:15] Speaker 1: And if nothing else, LeBron is going to extract the
[23:18] Speaker 1: best out of you. And maybe that's his best talent
[23:21] Speaker 1: at this stage beyond like the physical gifts and everything else.
[23:24] Speaker 1: When he believes, he makes you believe. And if the
[23:28] Speaker 1: jump shot is going, if the jump shot is going,
[23:31] Speaker 1: he can still hit those high notes for a night.
[23:33] Speaker 1: Kevin Durant, if he was healthy, could still hit the
[23:36] Speaker 1: high notes for a night. That was the wish on
[23:38] Speaker 1: Stephen Curry for a night. Quietly, that's the wish on
[23:42] Speaker 1: Nikola Jokic at this stage.
[23:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, he is physically not right. I think that is
[23:47] Speaker 2: a big part of it. But I think you hit
[23:50] Speaker 2: on something that's important with the LeBron thing, which is
[23:52] Speaker 2: I think this game five, is a little bit more
[23:56] Speaker 2: important than I think we're giving it credit for. Like, obviously,
[23:59] Speaker 2: the Rockets go down 3-0. We've kind of sort of
[24:01] Speaker 2: written them off. But it is fair to say that
[24:04] Speaker 2: the Lakers have played over their heads, or they did
[24:09] Speaker 2: in those first three games. I mean, that is a
[24:12] Speaker 2: reasonable hypothesis. I'm not saying it's absolutely true, but it's
[24:15] Speaker 2: reasonable to say that. It is not impossible to think
[24:19] Speaker 2: that the Rockets could win game five. If they did
[24:22] Speaker 2: win game five, oh, this one gets to be interesting.
[24:26] Speaker 2: But you touched on something with LeBron that I thought
[24:29] Speaker 2: is worth noting, and we've seen this as his career
[24:31] Speaker 2: has gone, which is if he believes... Because once LeBron
[24:36] Speaker 2: don't think there's a chance, then LeBron start getting real
[24:38] Speaker 2: circumspect and talking about like how good life is and
[24:42] Speaker 2: how important it is to have love from your family
[24:44] Speaker 2: and everything else, right? He can be a bit of
[24:47] Speaker 2: a front runner in that way.
[24:50] Speaker 1: I can't believe this is my life.
[24:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He can get there, right? Right.
[24:56] Speaker 2: It'll be interesting to see what happens if they mess
[24:57] Speaker 2: around and went down 3-2. I don't think Durant's going
[24:59] Speaker 2: to play again anytime soon. But if the Rockets somehow
[25:04] Speaker 2: were to dial this up and get it to be 3-2,
[25:06] Speaker 2: it'll be interesting. The Lakers bringing back Austin Reeves. We'll
[25:08] Speaker 2: see what he's got. We'll see how they work him
[25:10] Speaker 2: back in. All of this stuff. Like, this one is
[25:14] Speaker 2: as close to over as you could expect. But I
[25:15] Speaker 2: don't think it's 100% over.
[25:18] Speaker 1: No, it's not 100% over. The problem is you just don't.
[25:20] Speaker 1: I don't know if I see a path.
[25:22] Speaker 2: Right, for the Rockets to win four games in a
[25:24] Speaker 2: row would be absurd.
[25:25] Speaker 1: No, not just that. No, no, not just that. Just
[25:28] Speaker 1: give me like a one game sample size. And the
[25:31] Speaker 1: two games that the Rockets have beaten the Lakers this year,
[25:33] Speaker 1: and they've only beaten them twice. The two games that
[25:36] Speaker 1: they've beaten them, they've beaten them down. I think they
[25:39] Speaker 1: beat them on Christmas like 20. And then they beat
[25:41] Speaker 1: them the other night in a very predictable sort of
[25:43] Speaker 1: we're not going to get swept game four. Beat them
[25:46] Speaker 1: like that because they can overwhelm you athletically. Right. And
[25:51] Speaker 1: when they lose, they lose close. It looks like a
[25:53] Speaker 1: clown car. Is this team well coached? They don't have
[25:56] Speaker 1: a point guard. Did he just get the ball poked
[26:00] Speaker 1: from behind like this is church league? Yes, he did.
[26:03] Speaker 1: Those are the things. And it's always, to me, game five,
[26:10] Speaker 1: a team is going to go home if they lose.
[26:12] Speaker 1: What happens is there's going to be these rushes throughout
[26:15] Speaker 1: the course of the game. There's going to be a
[26:17] Speaker 1: second quarter rush, and then it's going to be like,
[26:19] Speaker 1: You know what? Do I feel like, do we feel
[26:21] Speaker 1: like holding on or do we just let go? It's
[26:23] Speaker 1: going to be one in the third quarter. Do we
[26:25] Speaker 1: feel like letting go? You know what I mean? Like
[26:27] Speaker 1: you can keep recovering and then you're going to be
[26:29] Speaker 1: down eight and you're feeling good about how you're playing.
[26:32] Speaker 1: It's just within reach where you're like, we are one
[26:35] Speaker 1: good rush away. But do we have that rush to give?
[26:38] Speaker 1: Or is LeBron and Austin Reeves and his band going
[26:42] Speaker 1: to just hit a couple of threes to make that
[26:44] Speaker 1: eight point lead 14 and then you going home? Like
[26:47] Speaker 1: that's what the test is going to be tonight. unless
[26:50] Speaker 1: they overwhelm them like they did in game four. And
[26:52] Speaker 1: I don't know if I necessarily see that happening because
[26:54] Speaker 1: LeBron has these guys actually concentrating. Yeah.
[26:57] Speaker 2: That's, that's, if that, if that goes right, if that continues,
[27:02] Speaker 2: there'll be, I mean, both of these teams are competing
[27:05] Speaker 2: for the joy of having their doors blown off by
[27:09] Speaker 2: Oklahoma city. I think we'd agree on that.
[27:10] Speaker 1: Right. I mean, look, look, man, Jalen Williams is week
[27:14] Speaker 1: to week with a grade one hamstring strain that has
[27:18] Speaker 1: cost him almost like 50 games this year. And we
[27:22] Speaker 1: never know the wiser.
[27:23] Speaker 2: You know, it's like, it doesn't even matter. Like he
[27:26] Speaker 2: might not even actually be hurt right now. It is like, well,
[27:30] Speaker 2: I take the risk.
[27:32] Speaker 1: Hey, go rest up for Dylan Harper and Stefan castle
[27:36] Speaker 1: and Devin for sale and big slim. Just, just go
[27:39] Speaker 1: ahead and get your rest. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll meet
[27:41] Speaker 1: you in the Western conference.
[27:42] Speaker 2: Just go chill. Coming up next. We're going to talk
[27:44] Speaker 2: about this San Antonio thing. Cause, uh, It's the countdown
[27:49] Speaker 2: to Armageddon with Oklahoma City and San Antonio. You can
[27:54] Speaker 2: predict the playoff action all the way to the finals
[27:56] Speaker 2: with FanDuel Predicts. All you have to do is sign
[27:59] Speaker 2: up to get you a $ 25 bonus. Follow all the
[28:03] Speaker 2: playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, and misses. Every move is a
[28:07] Speaker 2: potential plot twist. Predict the spread, the total points, and
[28:11] Speaker 2: even the game-winning moments that make the playoffs, where one run,
[28:14] Speaker 2: one rebound, one shot changes everything. From opening tip to
[28:19] Speaker 2: the final buzzer, stay locked in with every pass, every play,
[28:23] Speaker 2: and every moment that moves us closer to crowning a champion.
[28:26] Speaker 2: Sign up now for your $ 25 bonus on FanDuel Predicts.
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[29:13] Speaker 2: All right, back with Vinny Goodwill, ESPN. How do you
[29:17] Speaker 2: say my man's name from Israel?
[29:21] Speaker 1: Advia. Didn't he Advia? Advia.
[29:22] Speaker 2: Advia. That boy Victor pitched his shit into the crowd
[29:28] Speaker 2: so hard that for people who have certain politics, they
[29:32] Speaker 2: was looking at that like when Joe Louis knocked out
[29:35] Speaker 2: Max Schmelen. That was what the moment was for them, ESPN.
[29:40] Speaker 2: in that moment when he did that. If you had
[29:42] Speaker 2: the politics of a certain sort of way, that made
[29:45] Speaker 2: people feel real good. I would not be surprised if Victor...
[29:50] Speaker 2: Let me be careful. I don't want to put that
[29:51] Speaker 2: on him. But I wouldn't be surprised if Victor looked
[29:54] Speaker 2: at it that same way based on the interviews I
[29:56] Speaker 2: done seen with him. They got Portland the fuck up
[29:59] Speaker 2: out of there, dog. They're just like, all right, enough
[30:01] Speaker 2: of this. Let's go. I can't believe how good they are.
[30:04] Speaker 2: And they're good in a way. I'm curious to think
[30:07] Speaker 2: about this part in particular. I have raised the question
[30:10] Speaker 2: about whether or not. like how much winning you're really
[30:13] Speaker 2: doing with De'Aaron Fox as the dude that brings the
[30:16] Speaker 2: ball up the floor. But given that they don't need
[30:19] Speaker 2: De'Aaron Fox to actually do that much, and then he
[30:22] Speaker 2: just can be the closer, which he is very good at. Hey, man,
[30:26] Speaker 2: this thing is happening. Like, I think I said on
[30:28] Speaker 2: the show the other day, we've never seen a team
[30:30] Speaker 2: that hadn't done anything before. And I'm not counting the
[30:33] Speaker 2: 08 Celtics in this because their guys were so old. Right, right, right, right.
[30:36] Speaker 2: But we've never seen a team that never done anything
[30:38] Speaker 2: before win a championship. But we've also never seen a
[30:41] Speaker 2: dude eight feet tall with handles.
[30:44] Speaker 1: No, the one comparison that I had was the 95
[30:47] Speaker 1: Orlando Magic. where in year two of Penny, year three
[30:51] Speaker 1: of Shaq, but even then.
[30:53] Speaker 2: But they had at least been to the playoffs before.
[30:55] Speaker 1: They had at least been to the playoffs before they
[30:58] Speaker 1: got swept in maybe it was a 3-6 as the
[31:01] Speaker 1: home team against Indiana in round one.
[31:04] Speaker 3: 4-5.
[31:05] Speaker 1: Was it 4-5?
[31:06] Speaker 2: Okay. I think it was 4-5. You talk, I'll look
[31:09] Speaker 2: it up.
[31:11] Speaker 1: I want to say Atlanta was the number one seed
[31:14] Speaker 1: in 1994.
[31:14] Speaker 2: Atlanta was the number one.
[31:15] Speaker 1: You're right.
[31:16] Speaker 2: Atlanta was the number one. Yeah, it was 4-5 because
[31:18] Speaker 2: Atlanta was the number one seed that year, and then Indiana.
[31:21] Speaker 1: Beat Atlanta to play the next. You're right. You're right.
[31:23] Speaker 1: You're right.
[31:23] Speaker 2: What I tell you about this boy, though. What I
[31:25] Speaker 2: tell you about this boy.
[31:25] Speaker 1: That was the year they traded Dominique to.
[31:28] Speaker 2: That was wild. February 24, 1994. That is the year.
[31:30] Speaker 2: It absolutely did happen. They sure did.
[31:32] Speaker 1: That was wild. That was wild and crazy. Motherfuckers sure did.
[31:36] Speaker 1: But even to the point, you don't see teams that
[31:39] Speaker 1: don't make.
[31:39] Speaker 2: For Danny Manning- It ain't even come back.
[31:45] Speaker 1: Well, they didn't want to pay Dominique, right? Because he
[31:47] Speaker 1: was up, right?
[31:49] Speaker 2: The details don't matter to me, brother. Let's talk about
[31:53] Speaker 2: the NBA today. Let's talk about that. Hey, hey, Bo.
[31:57] Speaker 1: I can relate. Barry Sanders. Yeah, yeah, yeah. July 27, 1999.
[32:04] Speaker 1: I get you.
[32:05] Speaker 2: I feel your pain. That was his choice. That was
[32:07] Speaker 2: his choice. Anyway, what are we talking about?
[32:09] Speaker 1: What are we talking about? We talking about Big Slim.
[32:11] Speaker 2: That's what I thought.
[32:12] Speaker 1: That's what I thought. And the point of Orlando in
[32:16] Speaker 1: 95 with Shaq and Penny, and those were two supernovas. Legitimately,
[32:21] Speaker 1: Shaq was Shaq at that point, and Penny was growing
[32:23] Speaker 1: into a more athletic Magic Johnson type of dude. You
[32:28] Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like an heir to Magic Johnson
[32:30] Speaker 1: in a way. You could see that. With this one,
[32:33] Speaker 1: I was less worried about Victor Wimbinyama and how he
[32:36] Speaker 1: was going to perform in the playoffs. I was more
[32:39] Speaker 1: worried about, hey, Dylan Harper's a rookie. Devin Vassell and
[32:43] Speaker 1: Kelden Johnson. And yeah, Darren Fox can go and he
[32:46] Speaker 1: won the Clutch Player of the Year award in Sacramento.
[32:48] Speaker 1: But how does this work with this iteration of guys?
[32:52] Speaker 1: And the answer is no. We can be down 15
[32:55] Speaker 1: in Portland at the half and win by 20. Like
[32:58] Speaker 1: this is the craziness of it. And then the way
[33:01] Speaker 1: that it's setting up. Who knows what happens game six,
[33:06] Speaker 1: Minnesota and Denver. Minnesota could still or Denver could still
[33:10] Speaker 1: win that series just because of the atrophy that's going
[33:13] Speaker 1: on in Minnesota right now. But no matter what happens,
[33:16] Speaker 1: if you get Denver next round, they're going to be
[33:19] Speaker 1: dog tired. and still wearing the scent of the Minnesota Timberwolves.
[33:25] Speaker 1: And you're going to be there resting and watching. And
[33:29] Speaker 1: the path of growing up, and this is a point
[33:33] Speaker 1: that I've tried to make about the Detroit Pistons. We think, oh,
[33:36] Speaker 1: you're just going to take a year-by-year, stair-step process. This
[33:40] Speaker 1: league moves too fast for that, man. Like, there is
[33:44] Speaker 1: no more. Like, Oklahoma City, think about this, Bo. OKC
[33:47] Speaker 1: went from best record in the West, losing in the
[33:50] Speaker 1: second round to Luka Doncic, to winning 60 games and
[33:53] Speaker 1: winning it all on the span of 12 months. And
[33:56] Speaker 1: the year before that first number one seed, they were
[33:58] Speaker 1: in the play-in. Play-in, second round, title. Like, that's how
[34:03] Speaker 1: quick it can go. And granted, Oklahoma City is a
[34:06] Speaker 1: completely different thing, but that's the path that the San
[34:08] Speaker 1: Antonio Spurs are on. So if you are expecting to
[34:11] Speaker 1: get a win off of them, it better be not
[34:14] Speaker 1: because you're probably not going to get one later.
[34:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, man.
[34:17] Speaker 1: He's only going to get.
[34:20] Speaker 1: The fact that he spiked the ball and almost hit
[34:23] Speaker 1: one of the overhead cameras that they sit on top
[34:27] Speaker 1: of the rim, dog.
[34:29] Speaker 2: Look, it's like, you remember Deion Sanders was at his peak,
[34:33] Speaker 2: and the idea was you put Deion on your best receiver,
[34:37] Speaker 2: and that's that, right? You don't have to worry about that.
[34:42] Speaker 2: What Victor has become is, or the idea, more accurately,
[34:47] Speaker 2: the idea then was Deion... covers the whole side of
[34:50] Speaker 2: the field. It's not true, right? It's very close. But
[34:53] Speaker 2: Deion covers a guy, right? Unless you do other things,
[34:56] Speaker 2: but he covers a guy. And that's very, very important
[34:58] Speaker 2: that he covers a guy. Victor is covering like a
[35:01] Speaker 2: 15-foot radius around the goal, right? Like your favorite players
[35:08] Speaker 2: are coming in the lane and being like, how about
[35:10] Speaker 2: I just go back outside? Yep, yep. I was just playing, Victor. No, no, no, no.
[35:15] Speaker 2: It's no thing. And you talk about LeBron having his
[35:19] Speaker 2: dudes believe it. These dudes believe.
[35:23] Speaker 1: Dude, Big Vic is like that dog in the sandlot.
[35:28] Speaker 1: Where they was just, hey, don't hit that ball over
[35:30] Speaker 1: the yard. That ball is dead and gone now because
[35:33] Speaker 1: I forgot the dog's name. But you ain't want no
[35:37] Speaker 1: parts of that dog, right? That's Victor. And subsequently, they
[35:43] Speaker 1: are built in such a way that it is lymph, right?
[35:47] Speaker 1: It's lymph and quickness. You know, Bissell. is a dog.
[35:51] Speaker 1: Castle is a big dog. Castle is in your face
[35:55] Speaker 1: and he can afford to be in your face because
[35:58] Speaker 1: he know what he got behind him. That's the crazy thing.
[36:02] Speaker 1: And the one thing I thought they got criticism for
[36:05] Speaker 1: very early was they got too many point guards. No, no, no.
[36:09] Speaker 1: You have guys who can funnel Passes to Vic at
[36:13] Speaker 1: the rim. He's a rim threat no matter what. He's
[36:17] Speaker 1: a rim threat at any point on the floor. He
[36:20] Speaker 1: can go run pick and roll or he can run
[36:22] Speaker 1: backdoor or whatever it is because you've got somebody capable
[36:25] Speaker 1: of making a pass. You've got somebody capable of drawing
[36:27] Speaker 1: two and creating some sort of where he winds up
[36:30] Speaker 1: being open, and you get all these switchable dudes where
[36:33] Speaker 1: we can all funnel them down the lane to 7'5.
[36:39] Speaker 2: 7'5 with timing, right? 7'5 with an 8-foot weight.
[36:44] Speaker 1: And he's one of them dudes that he's like, ooh, blood.
[36:48] Speaker 3: Yes.
[36:50] Speaker 1: I like this. I like this.
[36:52] Speaker 2: Hey, man, let me give you a couple thoughts. One,
[36:55] Speaker 2: remember when Popovich said that wild shit a few years
[36:57] Speaker 2: ago about how the players from the other countries was
[37:01] Speaker 2: less entitled and everything else in America, dot, dot, dot,
[37:04] Speaker 2: and they got a squad full of American dogs out there, right?
[37:09] Speaker 2: It's worth noting. And look, Popovich is still very involved
[37:13] Speaker 2: in the building of this roster, the guys that they
[37:15] Speaker 2: ultimately got, right? Somewhere along the way.
[37:18] Speaker 1: I don't know.
[37:18] Speaker 2: Maybe they was over there getting them dudes from other
[37:20] Speaker 2: places and they found out that some of them really
[37:23] Speaker 2: wasn't that bad.
[37:24] Speaker 1: Wow, wow, wow.
[37:24] Speaker 2: You know what I mean? But they got a bunch
[37:26] Speaker 2: of dudes from Atlanta with dreadlocks on this team. Number two,
[37:31] Speaker 2: made an error in the last show. And I don't
[37:34] Speaker 2: think it was that hard of an error to make,
[37:36] Speaker 2: but an error I made nonetheless that made me laugh
[37:39] Speaker 2: at myself because I went on and on for as
[37:41] Speaker 2: long as I did about this. I had assumed that
[37:45] Speaker 2: Sham Pipple was from France, because his name was kind
[37:50] Speaker 2: of spelt the way it was, and he was playing
[37:53] Speaker 2: with Vic, and after they got Cisco up out of there,
[37:57] Speaker 2: I figured they were saying to themselves that they needed
[37:59] Speaker 2: to get another, another, un frère, You know, poor, poor
[38:07] Speaker 2: Levit Gond. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what
[38:10] Speaker 2: I thought that that's what they were doing.
[38:11] Speaker 1: You know where he from, right?
[38:13] Speaker 2: I do now. I did not know this at the time.
[38:16] Speaker 2: That's the whole point of the goddamn story is that
[38:19] Speaker 2: I didn't know where he was from. And I was
[38:21] Speaker 2: saying that Shad Pippa was from France when it turned
[38:24] Speaker 2: out that Shad Pippa from Staten Island is two of them.
[38:28] Speaker 2: That explains why they don't say his name right. You
[38:31] Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? Somebody in the YouTube was like,
[38:33] Speaker 2: who gonna tell Bonet from New York? And I was like,
[38:37] Speaker 2: oh man, my bad. I ain't need to look them up.
[38:42] Speaker 2: I know it's two of them. I ain't need to
[38:44] Speaker 2: look them up or nothing, man. I thought them dudes
[38:46] Speaker 2: was from France. I thought that they was looking out
[38:49] Speaker 2: for the franchise. Nah, man. Them dudes is right down
[38:52] Speaker 2: the street.
[38:54] Speaker 1: Also, don't forget, they got the man who helped who
[38:57] Speaker 1: helped shut down Magic City Mondays. Our buddy Luke Cornett.
[39:01] Speaker 2: They do. They do. I would also like to say
[39:03] Speaker 2: right fast, by the way, about Sham Pipple, which is
[39:06] Speaker 2: he from Staten Island, which might as well be France.
[39:11] Speaker 2: It might as well be another country if he was
[39:13] Speaker 2: Staten Island. I ain't never been there. I ain't never
[39:17] Speaker 2: been there. I've been here nine years. That shit ain't
[39:19] Speaker 2: come up once. Not one single solitary situation. where the
[39:25] Speaker 2: thought was, hey man, let's go shoot down there to
[39:28] Speaker 2: Staten Island right now.
[39:30] Speaker 1: Quick.
[39:30] Speaker 2: Okay, he grew up in Brooklyn. He was born in
[39:32] Speaker 2: Staten Island. But he grew up in Brooklyn. Okay. He
[39:35] Speaker 2: went to the same high school as Mari Jackson. Yeah. Anyway,
[39:40] Speaker 2: I ain't know. My bad. You know, I say he
[39:45] Speaker 2: look a little bit like Franklin St.
[39:46] Speaker 1: Daddy.
[39:48] Speaker 2: On Snowball. Like he's trending in that direction.
[39:53] Speaker 1: I didn't think about that.
[39:54] Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Who is the musician I'm
[39:58] Speaker 2: thinking of right now? There's a musician specifically that had like,
[40:02] Speaker 2: you could tell when he started going bald exactly what
[40:04] Speaker 2: the pattern is. Oh, Maurice White. That's what I was
[40:06] Speaker 2: thinking about.
[40:09] Speaker 1: Oh, that's a pull.
[40:10] Speaker 2: He reminds me of Maurice White in a one piece.
[40:15] Speaker 1: Okay, I got you. I got you. Look, dude, these
[40:19] Speaker 1: dudes are hungry. Like, that's the thing about it. Like, yeah,
[40:26] Speaker 1: they ain't just go get any old American players. You
[40:29] Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, you did go get Dylan Harper.
[40:32] Speaker 1: You got Steph Castle, who, you know, we came from
[40:35] Speaker 1: a program that was a crazy person was running it.
[40:38] Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
[40:40] Speaker 3: Yes.
[40:41] Speaker 1: He's okay. You know, Dylan Harper comes from good stock, right?
[40:44] Speaker 1: His daddy is Ron Harper, who is awfully active on
[40:47] Speaker 1: the Twitter. You know what I mean?
[40:48] Speaker 2: Oh, he is?
[40:49] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Harp is. Harp be online too much. It's
[40:55] Speaker 1: a couple. It's like, can this really be your account?
[40:58] Speaker 1: And then you find out that it is. Like, you
[41:00] Speaker 1: can find out that it is by the way that
[41:01] Speaker 1: somebody type.
[41:02] Speaker 2: Yes.
[41:03] Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like, how much space is
[41:05] Speaker 1: between these words? Yeah, this is somebody that was born
[41:10] Speaker 1: in the 1960s. You know what I mean? Like, that
[41:12] Speaker 1: type of thing. But, yeah. Why can't they? Why can't
[41:17] Speaker 1: they beat Oklahoma City? I'm not saying they will, right?
[41:21] Speaker 1: But why can't they beat Oklahoma City? The fact that
[41:24] Speaker 1: we have not had a champion even get to the
[41:27] Speaker 1: Western Conference Finals or the Conference Finals.
[41:30] Speaker 2: That's crazy.
[41:31] Speaker 1: Since 2018-19, Golden State.
[41:34] Speaker 2: That's crazy.
[41:35] Speaker 1: That says something, right? And granted, they're on different sides
[41:38] Speaker 1: of the bracket, so they won't meet to the Conference Finals.
[41:40] Speaker 1: But the point is, when Oklahoma City gets there, The
[41:44] Speaker 1: thought is we better make quick work of Houston or L.A.
[41:47] Speaker 1: to get us some rest because we got a long
[41:50] Speaker 1: night ahead of us, a long seven nights ahead of
[41:52] Speaker 1: us with this big mountain of a shadow in front
[41:55] Speaker 1: of us. Like, I'm going to be in all likelihood
[41:57] Speaker 1: doing East. But baby, them off nights, I'm going to
[42:01] Speaker 1: be glued to the television.
[42:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to be there. Now, I want to,
[42:08] Speaker 2: before we get out of here, Orlando, Detroit, Cleveland, Toronto,
[42:12] Speaker 2: we'll talk about you guys one day. One day we will.
[42:16] Speaker 2: Don't you worry. But I do think with Detroit that
[42:19] Speaker 2: a lot of people had a question. It's like, so
[42:20] Speaker 2: what's going on? This is 8-1 Orlando, which we had
[42:23] Speaker 2: left for dead as recently as three weeks ago. We
[42:27] Speaker 2: had them left for dead going into the play-in, talking
[42:30] Speaker 2: about firing the coach and the whole nine. Detroit does
[42:34] Speaker 2: not look ready for primetime, but you see it really
[42:37] Speaker 2: as they overachieved to win as many games as they did.
[42:41] Speaker 1: Absolutely. Well, for one, I was of the belief at
[42:47] Speaker 1: the trade deadline that if Detroit believed that they were
[42:51] Speaker 1: as good as their record said they were, then they
[42:53] Speaker 1: were going to augment that by going to get a
[42:56] Speaker 1: playoff piece, right? Ayo DeSumo, who's doing work in Minnesota.
[43:00] Speaker 1: A Kobe White, who's doing work in Charlotte. And you
[43:03] Speaker 1: could have got them for the low, low price of
[43:05] Speaker 1: like three second rounders, right? The fact that they didn't
[43:08] Speaker 1: do it let me know that they didn't believe that
[43:12] Speaker 1: they were a final sort of team. Now, they framed
[43:16] Speaker 1: it as, hey, we got young guys. Let's see what happens.
[43:19] Speaker 1: We don't want to put too much pressure on them
[43:20] Speaker 1: or whatever it is. That's fine. But when everybody else
[43:23] Speaker 1: does something, when Jason Tatum is going to be the
[43:26] Speaker 1: Celtics post-deadline acquisition, and we all knew he was coming
[43:29] Speaker 1: back by the middle of February, right? We all knew that.
[43:32] Speaker 1: The Knicks tried some stuff, right? But we knew that
[43:36] Speaker 1: that team was going to be largely limited by what
[43:38] Speaker 1: they had. The Pistons don't have a high payroll. You
[43:41] Speaker 1: got to worry about paying Jalen Dern, or at least
[43:43] Speaker 1: you thought you did. I don't know about nah, because
[43:45] Speaker 1: he ain't covering himself in glory in this series. This
[43:50] Speaker 1: is the worst possible scenario for him. But when you
[43:52] Speaker 1: as an organization, to me, you don't do that, not
[43:55] Speaker 1: only one that says to me, you don't believe you're
[43:57] Speaker 1: a championship team, but also secondarily, is that some organizational malpractice?
[44:04] Speaker 1: Because these championship windows, if I'm talking about Oklahoma City
[44:07] Speaker 1: and saying you're going from play-in to second round to
[44:09] Speaker 1: championship in the span of three years, What makes you
[44:12] Speaker 1: believe that you're going to be here three years from now?
[44:15] Speaker 1: That you can afford to slow walk this and not
[44:18] Speaker 1: press the button to go get somebody. Cade Cunningham being
[44:23] Speaker 1: quote unquote MVP type of candidate who ain't really playing
[44:26] Speaker 1: like an MVP candidate in this series.
[44:28] Speaker 2: Hey man, David Dennis' nephew, man. He doing his best.
[44:32] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean?
[44:36] Speaker 1: Like this is, I think people are saying this as
[44:38] Speaker 1: Orlando's the worst matchup for them. I think that is
[44:42] Speaker 1: doing this somewhat of a disservice. Detroit would be struggling
[44:45] Speaker 1: no matter who they were playing because their deficiencies are
[44:49] Speaker 1: their deficiencies. They don't have a butt in the press.
[44:51] Speaker 1: Their superpower is making you play less than your best.
[44:56] Speaker 1: Like you can't get to your A game playing against Detroit. Dude,
[44:59] Speaker 1: Isaiah Stewart had eight block shots in game four and
[45:02] Speaker 1: they still lost.
[45:03] Speaker 2: Well, also because your boy Durin is out here getting
[45:06] Speaker 2: exposed and was the victim of one of the more
[45:09] Speaker 2: shocking punchings. in the history of basketball, some dude I'd
[45:12] Speaker 2: never heard of. Like, it wasn't like, oh, tell me
[45:15] Speaker 2: about him. Oh, no, no, no. What's his name? Kane?
[45:19] Speaker 2: Jamal Kane?
[45:21] Speaker 1: From Pontiac, Michigan.
[45:22] Speaker 2: And you know, Jamal, old school name now, right? And
[45:25] Speaker 2: he would have, nobody believed that was about to happen. Like,
[45:28] Speaker 2: even people that be watching them, nobody saw that coming,
[45:31] Speaker 2: and he was so dedicated to that cause. The look
[45:34] Speaker 2: on his face. And then flexed on him. I thought
[45:39] Speaker 2: Durham was something different.
[45:41] Speaker 1: What happens is once Wendell Carter Jr. started flexing, that
[45:48] Speaker 1: gives everybody else confidence. You know what I mean? Like,
[45:51] Speaker 1: they ain't trying, Stu.
[45:53] Speaker 2: Right?
[45:53] Speaker 1: If you know this, they ain't. Them ain't the problems
[45:58] Speaker 1: that you want, big dog. Jalen Dern is still very young. Like,
[46:02] Speaker 1: he looks like a grown man, but he's still 22
[46:05] Speaker 1: years old, and he got to come into some grown
[46:07] Speaker 1: man strength that he clearly doesn't have yet, and he is, like, Bo,
[46:12] Speaker 1: if you don't have a handle and you have a serviceable,
[46:16] Speaker 1: you have serviceable ball skills, right? But you're not a
[46:19] Speaker 1: shooter and you're reliant on space to get offensive production.
[46:24] Speaker 1: You don't have space because they don't have shooting and
[46:27] Speaker 1: you're getting beat up. on the interior and you're inside
[46:30] Speaker 1: your own head, you're not going to be effective. And
[46:33] Speaker 1: this is their second score. This is the guy who
[46:36] Speaker 1: I voted all first, all third, excuse me, all 13 NBA.
[46:40] Speaker 1: And he's ineffective against Wendell Carter, who ain't no slouch,
[46:43] Speaker 1: like who's actually a really good player. And, you know,
[46:47] Speaker 1: we got some other mitigating circumstances that we don't have
[46:49] Speaker 1: to talk about here. That makes it all the more
[46:51] Speaker 1: intriguing and yet all the more sad.
[46:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, this is, I mean, look, 3-1. We've seen
[46:57] Speaker 2: Detroit do this to Orlando before, but it ain't Doc
[47:00] Speaker 2: Rivers over there. You know what I'm saying? Wow.
[47:03] Speaker 1: That's a pull.
[47:05] Speaker 2: It did happen. I talked about it the other day.
[47:08] Speaker 2: Tracy McGrady feels good to finally get out of the
[47:10] Speaker 2: first round and then didn't get out of the first round.
[47:15] Speaker 1: And think about it like this. Think about it like this.
[47:18] Speaker 1: That 2003 Detroit team had more offensive talent of guys
[47:22] Speaker 1: that can get buckets than this one.
[47:24] Speaker 2: It is. It is. Let me tell you something that's
[47:26] Speaker 2: funny about Trace McGrady. I say, talk about Trace McGrady
[47:31] Speaker 2: not getting out of the first round, and nobody ever says, well,
[47:33] Speaker 2: what about 2001 with Toronto? I say James Harden never
[47:36] Speaker 2: got to the finals, and the comments filled up with,
[47:38] Speaker 2: what about the 2012 NBA finals? Yes, six-man James Harden. No, yeah,
[47:42] Speaker 2: you totally don't get the point that we're making here, right?
[47:46] Speaker 2: But Trace McGrady has no case.
[47:47] Speaker 1: No, McGrady was gone. He was gone in 2001. He
[47:50] Speaker 1: wasn't on the 0-1 team? No, he had already been, remember,
[47:53] Speaker 1: the summer of 2000. You're right. It was the summer
[47:56] Speaker 1: of 2000. You're right.
[47:57] Speaker 2: Never mind. Sorry about that. See, that's why we got
[48:01] Speaker 2: Vinny on the board here. Before we get out of here,
[48:03] Speaker 2: they've changed up the lottery. And it is very interesting.
[48:07] Speaker 2: We're basically, if you are one of the teams, and
[48:10] Speaker 2: tell me if I'm wrong, with the three worst records,
[48:13] Speaker 2: your lottery odds will be lower than the four through
[48:16] Speaker 2: 10 teams.
[48:18] Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.
[48:19] Speaker 2: Yeah. I got to say, that's a pretty creative way
[48:22] Speaker 2: to do it.
[48:24] Speaker 1: Well, my general thought, the only pushback for me is
[48:28] Speaker 1: we assume that the three teams at the bottom are
[48:31] Speaker 1: at the bottom because they want to be at the bottom.
[48:33] Speaker 1: What if you're at the bottom because you're just bad?
[48:35] Speaker 2: Well, then, you know what? Too bad, so sad. I'm 100%
[48:39] Speaker 2: with you.
[48:39] Speaker 1: But with the NBA, how they try to legislate parity,
[48:43] Speaker 1: that goes against it. But the tanking has gotten so
[48:46] Speaker 1: bad and so blatant that you have to take extreme measures.
[48:49] Speaker 1: The part that I do like is that you can't
[48:52] Speaker 1: get a top three pick two years in a row
[48:54] Speaker 1: or whatever it is. Like that's the, that's the elements
[48:57] Speaker 1: three is that that's the element that I suggested to
[48:59] Speaker 1: the league is to prevent the multi-year tank. Oh, we
[49:03] Speaker 1: didn't get it this year. We going to take it
[49:04] Speaker 1: out next year. Nah, man, you can't keep doing this
[49:07] Speaker 1: to your season ticket holders. You can't keep doing this
[49:10] Speaker 1: to competitive balance. to keep trying to stockpile these picks.
[49:14] Speaker 1: That is a Ponzi scheme. In three years, dog, we
[49:16] Speaker 1: gonna be all right, because one one of these years
[49:19] Speaker 1: we're gonna get the number one pick and in the
[49:21] Speaker 1: meantime we just gonna keep getting lucky and winding up
[49:23] Speaker 1: in the top four nah man you can't do that
[49:25] Speaker 1: you have to actually build your team and i think
[49:29] Speaker 1: by and large i'm you know relegation and all the
[49:31] Speaker 1: other type of stuff i suggested an unbalanced schedule if
[49:36] Speaker 1: you finish in a certain place like The NFL doesn't
[49:39] Speaker 1: have a balanced schedule. If we want all this extra
[49:42] Speaker 1: TV inventory, give me more, quote unquote, Lakers Warriors. I'll
[49:47] Speaker 1: take that over Lakers Nets. You want to get LeBron
[49:51] Speaker 1: at the gate? Work on getting your team better. Like,
[49:54] Speaker 1: that's how, to me, I know that's radical. I know
[49:57] Speaker 1: it's crazy. But that was an idea that I had
[50:00] Speaker 1: floating around for a minute was, how about we do
[50:02] Speaker 1: an unbalanced schedule? You want to get those guys in
[50:04] Speaker 1: your building to get that money? Make your team better.
[50:07] Speaker 1: What did Jaycee pull a price? I'll make your shit tighter.
[50:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what? That's an interesting idea because I
[50:13] Speaker 2: thought that what they came up with was a very
[50:15] Speaker 2: good idea. I like it. Yeah, I think that what
[50:19] Speaker 2: you're really trying to do is figure out ways to
[50:21] Speaker 2: stop teams. And I like the way that Adam talked
[50:24] Speaker 2: about it, right? It should be embarrassing to lose. It's
[50:29] Speaker 2: good to hear a commissioner say, talk about the sport
[50:32] Speaker 2: in those terms. Like, I don't know if you remember this,
[50:34] Speaker 2: but Rob Manfred, and I don't think he's ever recovered
[50:36] Speaker 2: from this in baseball, where he referred to the World
[50:40] Speaker 2: Series trophy as, quote, a hunk of metal. And the
[50:43] Speaker 2: point that he was trying to make is that, like,
[50:45] Speaker 2: I felt like the point he was making was that
[50:46] Speaker 2: the trophy itself isn't a thing or whatever. But that's
[50:49] Speaker 2: not what people heard. They heard you say that the
[50:52] Speaker 2: thing that people compete for, because for us, it's easy
[50:55] Speaker 2: to just think of this as, like, the trophy is
[50:57] Speaker 2: really a representation of an idea. But a lot of
[51:00] Speaker 2: these guys are more literal than that, right? They're like, no,
[51:02] Speaker 2: I compete for this trophy. What are you talking about?
[51:05] Speaker 2: Are you telling me it's just a hunk of metal? No,
[51:07] Speaker 2: it's not. It's the trophy. And you can try to
[51:10] Speaker 2: get all high-minded and argue that back, but you're missing
[51:12] Speaker 2: the point, right? These guys are telling you, this trophy
[51:15] Speaker 2: ain't no hunk of metal. This is what we care about, right?
[51:18] Speaker 2: But commissioners are typically not athletes. and therefore they don't
[51:23] Speaker 2: typically think of things in those terms. So I thought
[51:26] Speaker 2: it was dope to hear a commissioner talk about these
[51:28] Speaker 2: games like games matter, right? Not like this is just
[51:32] Speaker 2: to put some stuff on television. No, we want a
[51:35] Speaker 2: league where people try to win and that when they
[51:39] Speaker 2: don't win, it sucks. Nobody should be happy about the
[51:43] Speaker 2: fact that they did not win. And he's 100% correct.
[51:45] Speaker 2: And so for me, I thought it was just dope
[51:49] Speaker 2: the way that he put it around this. And then
[51:51] Speaker 2: coming up with a way that creates a certain incentive
[51:54] Speaker 2: that stops you from taking it out. And you say here, well,
[51:56] Speaker 2: what if you're just bad? You shouldn't be. Your penalty
[52:00] Speaker 2: for stinking is going to be this.
[52:03] Speaker 1: Well, and not just that, it doesn't eliminate you from
[52:06] Speaker 1: getting the number one pick. It just decreases the odds.
[52:09] Speaker 1: So it's not an incentive. Remember the Denver, let me
[52:12] Speaker 1: say Denver, the Dallas Mavericks, you have the number one pick.
[52:15] Speaker 1: And they hit the ninth best odds. So it's not
[52:17] Speaker 1: like having more ping pong balls has actually helped. And
[52:21] Speaker 1: that was always my argument against it anyway, is that
[52:24] Speaker 1: no team since they reformed the lottery before 2019 had
[52:28] Speaker 1: actually gotten the number one pick who had the worst record.
[52:31] Speaker 1: So you are not being incentivized to lose anyway. You
[52:34] Speaker 1: were just doing it as a strategy to tell your
[52:38] Speaker 1: owner or whomever to skirt accountability. Now, to me, this
[52:42] Speaker 1: is a way for coaches to have to be accountable.
[52:45] Speaker 1: for ownership groups to have to be accountable, to be
[52:47] Speaker 1: accountable to the business of the league. Like at a point,
[52:51] Speaker 1: these 30 member franchises operated like independent franchisees and not
[52:56] Speaker 1: like we are part of something greater. Like if nothing else,
[52:59] Speaker 1: there was the thought that David Stern, when he was
[53:02] Speaker 1: ruling the league, when it was number 24 teams, 23 teams,
[53:05] Speaker 1: I think when he took over and then it went
[53:07] Speaker 1: to 28 and 29, 30 and so on and so forth,
[53:10] Speaker 1: that we are part of something greater here. And we
[53:13] Speaker 1: have to grow this thing together while being competitive with
[53:16] Speaker 1: each other. And at some point, because the analytics and
[53:20] Speaker 1: everything else, all of that, it became, well, we're doing
[53:24] Speaker 1: what's best singularly for us and screw all of y'all.
[53:28] Speaker 1: And if Adam has gotten the pendulum back to the
[53:31] Speaker 1: middle in some way to make it seem like, hey,
[53:33] Speaker 1: we are supposed to be all in this together. If
[53:36] Speaker 1: nothing else, that's the biggest positive of all this.
[53:39] Speaker 2: I also think that you're creating a situation where teams
[53:43] Speaker 2: are incentivized to teach their young players to win. So
[53:48] Speaker 2: for example, I don't mind a team deciding we're going
[53:52] Speaker 2: all the way young, right? Like the first Oklahoma city run, like, okay,
[53:57] Speaker 2: we got these young guys and we're going to take
[53:59] Speaker 2: the lumps that come with putting these young guys out here.
[54:02] Speaker 2: But like that, where I get bothered is like those
[54:04] Speaker 2: early years in new Orleans were like parking Anthony Davis, right?
[54:07] Speaker 2: At those various points, we didn't know whether he was actually,
[54:10] Speaker 2: I mean, obviously he had injury issues, but some of
[54:12] Speaker 2: the time it was like, or they're just not going
[54:14] Speaker 2: to play him. Or the Sixers just flat out sitting
[54:17] Speaker 2: Joel Embiid for basically three years.
[54:20] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[54:20] Speaker 2: You know, just making the decision, hey, man, we're just
[54:22] Speaker 2: not going to play. No, get these guys out here
[54:25] Speaker 2: and make them have to play, learn how to, even
[54:27] Speaker 2: if you're just winning a game here and a game there.
[54:30] Speaker 2: But I think they conditioned a lot of these young
[54:32] Speaker 2: guys to being losers by doing this. Like, it's amazing
[54:35] Speaker 2: they didn't ruin Cade Cunningham.
[54:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, and here's the thing. And that's the thing. The
[54:41] Speaker 1: year that they lost the most was the year that
[54:43] Speaker 1: they thought they were going to be good. They were
[54:45] Speaker 1: just bad at it. Remember, they hired Montee Williams and
[54:48] Speaker 1: paid him $ 100 million. You ain't paying nobody $ 100 million
[54:52] Speaker 1: to try to lose. They wound up losing it. That's
[54:54] Speaker 1: what happened. Now, the Philly thing, remember, they were drafting
[54:57] Speaker 1: players that they knew couldn't even play.
[54:59] Speaker 2: The guys they were putting out there on the floor,
[55:02] Speaker 2: fans should have been able to sue them for charging
[55:06] Speaker 2: people money to watch those guys play.
[55:08] Speaker 1: And then we had Pablo, who was saying, the process
[55:14] Speaker 1: accounts for all this. Dude, what are you talking about?
[55:17] Speaker 1: The process don't account for... The fact that that was
[55:23] Speaker 1: sold as something digestible, and it was sold as something
[55:28] Speaker 1: that people could be talking about on TV with a
[55:30] Speaker 1: straight face, was an outright failure.
[55:33] Speaker 2: The thing was, the process yielded what you would hope for,
[55:37] Speaker 2: which was... two-generational prospects. Now, never forget the Markel Fultz
[55:44] Speaker 2: not working thing. And also, we cannot forget this. Before
[55:47] Speaker 2: the wheels came off, Ben Simmons was cold.
[55:50] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
[55:51] Speaker 2: Like, having Ben Simmons and Embiid, they got what you
[55:53] Speaker 2: would hope for from this process that you would have.
[55:57] Speaker 2: And then it just, you know.
[55:59] Speaker 1: But no, here's the... No, no, it's not that. This
[56:01] Speaker 1: is the part that people are missing, though. You're right.
[56:04] Speaker 1: You got two-generational prospects. But once you get losing in
[56:07] Speaker 1: your building... And you've got losing habits. And you can say,
[56:11] Speaker 1: or you can make the argument that those two guys
[56:13] Speaker 1: were not better for it. That they were not better
[56:16] Speaker 1: as individuals for it because of the environments that they
[56:18] Speaker 1: were drafted into because they were not winning environments and
[56:21] Speaker 1: it came and played out to be as such in
[56:23] Speaker 1: their individual careers.
[56:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. And to be fair to Simmons, the
[56:26] Speaker 2: process part was over by the time he got there,
[56:29] Speaker 2: but it lingered, right? Like this was, you know, this
[56:31] Speaker 2: was a thing that was, and the thing they tried
[56:33] Speaker 2: to tell us was, hey, look what we got from
[56:35] Speaker 2: Robert Covington, right? Like Robert Covington was the idea, but
[56:39] Speaker 2: we're going to find some, we're going to find some
[56:41] Speaker 2: steals in this process. And they found, Robert Covington, and
[56:45] Speaker 2: TJ McCollum.
[56:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a couple more players who wound up being-
[56:50] Speaker 1: Christian Wood.
[56:52] Speaker 2: Right.
[56:52] Speaker 1: It was one more. Was it one more that I'm missing?
[56:55] Speaker 1: I feel like there was one more guy. But they
[56:56] Speaker 1: didn't do nothing for them? No, and that's the thing.
[56:59] Speaker 1: They had to go to other places and detox that
[57:02] Speaker 1: nonsense out of their system and then get it and
[57:05] Speaker 1: then figure out something else. Like the player Eval was
[57:08] Speaker 1: so bad. You know what I mean? Like there's players
[57:10] Speaker 1: that you feel bad for that you're like, man, why
[57:12] Speaker 1: are you out here? Why don't you go? Like, you
[57:16] Speaker 1: a scientist. Like, literally, you are a scientist. You're not
[57:19] Speaker 1: a ball player.
[57:21] Speaker 2: Get off the corner, school boy.
[57:26] Speaker 1: Bunk.
[57:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, go home, school boy.
[57:28] Speaker 1: Go home, school boy. You ain't hard.
[57:32] Speaker 2: Hey, hey, hey, relatable content. Not that I was out there,
[57:35] Speaker 2: but that's what they would have told me.
[57:38] Speaker 1: Facts.
[57:39] Speaker 2: You know? So, no, this is, look, I appreciate this
[57:42] Speaker 2: from Adam. We don't want... Trying to lose.
[57:47] Speaker 1: I like the... I like the fact that Adam grew
[57:49] Speaker 1: a backbone on this one. Yeah. Because.
[57:51] Speaker 2: What?
[57:52] Speaker 1: Go ahead.
[57:53] Speaker 2: He grew the backbone. I was also thinking part, man,
[57:55] Speaker 2: Adam started to care a little bit less about the internet.
[58:00] Speaker 1: We gonna see. We gonna see how that plays out.
[58:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, that test is going to be what happens with
[58:05] Speaker 2: Kawhi Leonard. We're gonna find out how much he cares
[58:09] Speaker 2: about the internet these days based on what happens there.
[58:12] Speaker 2: That's gonna be an indicator.
[58:14] Speaker 1: Does the internet care what happens to Kawhi Leonard, or
[58:17] Speaker 1: is that just what we see?
[58:18] Speaker 2: Well, it looked like it at one point, and we're
[58:20] Speaker 2: going to find out how much anybody actually still cares
[58:23] Speaker 2: about this. I am waiting until it's all done before
[58:26] Speaker 2: I offer larger opinions on it. It's a bit of
[58:30] Speaker 2: an awkward situation for me, but no one that I've
[58:34] Speaker 2: talked to on league level cares.
[58:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, same here.
[58:42] Speaker 2: And look, I don't talk to like GM level guys.
[58:45] Speaker 2: I don't have that much access to that class of guy.
[58:47] Speaker 2: Maybe they care. But higher than that in agent level,
[58:53] Speaker 2: they don't care.
[58:56] Speaker 1: Nah, I mean....
[58:58] Speaker 2: To be fair, why would the agents care? But they
[59:01] Speaker 2: don't care.
[59:02] Speaker 1: No, for one, not even like opening a can of
[59:05] Speaker 1: worms and everything else, but you think... Here's the thing.
[59:09] Speaker 1: Let's say... you come down hard on Steve I know
[59:11] Speaker 1: we gotta run let's say you come down hard on
[59:13] Speaker 1: Steve Ballmer the richest owner in the league do you
[59:16] Speaker 1: want Steve Ballmer feeling vindictive about the other 29 member
[59:22] Speaker 1: franchises and asking do you want me to use my
[59:26] Speaker 1: resources to go in your closet yeah.
[59:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'll tell you this, though. Barber done got indignant, dog.
[59:35] Speaker 2: And I do think it is interesting, and this does
[59:37] Speaker 2: not look great for him, that he was like, NBA
[59:41] Speaker 2: can't trust this man. I don't know what he got
[59:43] Speaker 2: told that that man told the NBA. But he is
[59:48] Speaker 2: telling the whole world, I got played. I got made
[59:51] Speaker 2: a fool of. I have not been convinced that he's lying.
[59:54] Speaker 2: It just happens from what I've seen that has come out.
[59:56] Speaker 2: Something weird looked like it was going on, but I
[59:59] Speaker 2: am not... I don't have reason to believe fully that
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: it's salary cap circumvention just because I don't even see
[1:00:05] Speaker 2: what they gain out of it being salary cap circumvention.
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: But we're going to see.
[1:00:10] Speaker 1: Look, the one thing that I have yet to get
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: an answer for was if this were 2019 coming off
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: of Toronto winning the title and everything else and Kawhi
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: is the hottest free agent and I might go to
[1:00:21] Speaker 1: the Lakers if y'all don't get y'all stuff together and
[1:00:23] Speaker 1: get me Paul George. Cool. But if this wasn't this
[1:00:27] Speaker 1: being in 2021 when Kawhi tore up his knee against
[1:00:31] Speaker 1: the Utah Jazz in round two, and people thought that
[1:00:35] Speaker 1: he was done, there wasn't going to be a bunch
[1:00:38] Speaker 1: of bidders for his services. Right.
[1:00:39] Speaker 2: There's a lot that I don't understand. And so I'll
[1:00:43] Speaker 2: be curious to see if they put the report out
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: in the whole nine. We're going to see what it
[1:00:47] Speaker 2: turns to, but it will tell us if Adam is
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: really worried about trying to play around with public opinion.
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: We're going to see. Do not know, but we will see.
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: Benny Goodwill, check him out. ESPN, covering the NBA. My brother,
[1:01:00] Speaker 2: I appreciate you.
[1:01:01] Speaker 1: My dog.
[1:01:03] Speaker 2: All right, man. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: joining us here on The Right Time. We do this
[1:01:06] Speaker 2: four days a week. Brian Brumley handling things behind the scenes.
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line, 323-596-7767. Remember, follow
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: The Right Time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give
[1:01:18] Speaker 2: us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm
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[1:01:22] Speaker 2: you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.

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