# Summer reads – How we made the wilderness w/Cal Flyn

An episode of [Living Planet](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/80106872), 31 Jul 2026, 30 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/radiodownloaddw-a.akamaihd.net/Events/podcasts/en/948_podcast_living-planet/3481A6A5_2-podcast-948-78180310.mp3

What if the places we think of as empty and unmarred are anything but? What if wilderness is as much an idea as a place? A conversation with Cal Flyn, who, in her new book, travels to some of the world's most remote, awe-inspiring places to trace the changing meaning of wilderness, and to explore how one of conservation's most cherished ideals has come at a human cost.

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