# Investigating ‘flow state’ with the bassist from Phish

An episode of [Science Friday](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/73329284), 7 Jul 2026, 18 min.

Audio: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/mgln.ai/e/14/pdst.fm/e/dts.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/waaa.wnyc.org/ac8e2039-dfef-4938-b66a-c2f58f4b7599/episodes/de26fc28-202b-4785-87b0-fe7dcefb5ec7/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=ac8e2039-dfef-4938-b66a-c2f58f4b7599&awEpisodeId=de26fc28-202b-4785-87b0-fe7dcefb5ec7&feed=h18ZIZD_

The band Phish has toured for over 40 years. One of the draws of their legendary live shows—which can go on for 8 hours—is finding moments of “flow,” when the band members lock into an improvised jam, finding new musical ideas in real time. Phish fans live for these transcendent moments, but so do the musicians—to the point that Mike Gordon, the band’s bass player, is funding scientific research to better understand flow state. In November 2025, Host Flora Lichtman sat down with Mike and his research collaborator, neuroscientist Greg Appelbaum, to unpack their research so far and how it’s helping to inform other neuroscience. Guests: Mike Gordon is bassist and co-founder of the seminal improvisational rock band Phish. Dr. Greg Appelbaum is a professor in the department of psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego. A transcript for this episode is available at sciencefriday.com. Subscribe to this podcast. Follow us on socials @ scifri on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and Bluesky and sign up for our newsletters. Got a science question that’s keeping you up at night? Call us: 877-472-4374 Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.