# CLASSIC: The Episode Where We Ruin Sunscreen

An episode of [Stuff They Don't Want You To Know](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/732915228), 10 Sep 2026, 1 h 05 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/2e824128-fbd5-4c9e-9a57-ae2f0056b0c4/48caee4a-c85b-48e5-8138-b4c101628c6f/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=66d98a23-900c-44b0-a40b-ae2f0056b0db

Since ancient times, human beings have known the sun can be dangerous. Too much exposure to its rays can burn and prematurely age the skin. In fact, the concept of sunscreen may be a non-human invention, as various types of animals coat themselves in protective layers of mud to stave off the at-times brutal effects of heat and sunshine. Fast forward to the modern era -- sunscreen is a huge industry, and people across the planet use it on a daily basis. The science seems sound. Unlike some skin care products, sunscreen actually works... however, it appears sunscreen may also have a dark side. Join Ben and Matt for more in this week's Classic episode. They don't want you to read our book.: https://static.macmillan.com/static/fib/stuff-you-should-read/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist, welcome back to the show. We're doing
[0:03] Speaker 1: some classic episodes as we're gearing up for some travel. Guys,
[0:08] Speaker 1: it's the end of summer. I know that some people
[0:12] Speaker 1: love the daylight more than yours truly, but back in 2021,
[0:17] Speaker 1: we found something that I think baffled a lot of us. Sunscreen, right?
[0:23] Speaker 1: Whenever you go outside, especially here in the States, your
[0:27] Speaker 1: parents always tell you, Put on sunscreen, right, before you
[0:30] Speaker 1: go to the beach.
[0:31] Speaker 2: You know, I've become quite a sunscreen stickler. I've been
[0:36] Speaker 2: doing a lot more outdoorsy activities, and I like to
[0:38] Speaker 2: spray personally.
[0:38] Speaker 1: But, yeah, it's important, man.
[0:40] Speaker 2: Those UV rays, they be penetrating the dermis.
[0:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, especially for the more fair-skinned of us. I'm going
[0:50] Speaker 3: to put myself in that category. I'm looking at you guys.
[0:53] Speaker 3: I can't tell if you need that much sunscreen. I
[0:55] Speaker 3: definitely need a ton of it. This episode that we're
[0:58] Speaker 3: about to present to you as a classic talked about
[1:01] Speaker 3: some pretty terrifying things that are in that sunscreen that
[1:04] Speaker 3: we need to be a little worried about.
[1:06] Speaker 4: Oh, no.
[1:07] Speaker 1: Yeah. Just go ahead and rub yourself down. Spray yourself off, folks.
[1:12] Speaker 1: This is the episode where we ruin sunscreen.
[1:15] Speaker 3: And guys, there is new information. There are like new
[1:18] Speaker 3: ingredients that the FDA has just approved, I think this
[1:21] Speaker 3: year or last year, that counteract or they're They're counter
[1:25] Speaker 3: to some of the things we're talking about in the episode,
[1:27] Speaker 3: and they're new and they're improved. But how long until
[1:30] Speaker 3: those ingredients then become the stuff that we're about to
[1:33] Speaker 3: talk about?
[1:34] Speaker 1: Let's roll the tape. From UFOs to psychic powers and
[1:42] Speaker 1: government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can
[1:47] Speaker 1: turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want
[1:50] Speaker 1: you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.
[2:04] Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
[2:06] Speaker 1: My name is Noel. They call me Ben. We are
[2:09] Speaker 1: joined as always with our super producer, Paul Mission Control Deccan.
[2:13] Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you, you are here, and that
[2:16] Speaker 1: makes this Stuff They Don't Want You To Know. The
[2:20] Speaker 1: weather is beautiful here in Atlanta, in the south of
[2:25] Speaker 1: the U.S. People constantly talk about the weather. We had
[2:29] Speaker 1: a very moody atmosphere here just yesterday. There was big
[2:35] Speaker 1: sea shanty energy in the morning. We're talking rain, thunder,
[2:38] Speaker 1: felt maritime. And then by the afternoon, it was a
[2:43] Speaker 1: stereotypical spring. It was beautiful. You know, you could hear
[2:46] Speaker 1: the birds. You could see the squirrels jump around. You
[2:49] Speaker 1: would go outside. And according to experts, if you go outside,
[2:53] Speaker 1: you need sunscreen. And Parker wrote to us recently. Parker,
[3:00] Speaker 1: you had a suggestion specifically about sunscreen. And without spoiling
[3:08] Speaker 1: the letter here. you said the story of sunscreen goes
[3:14] Speaker 1: deeper in a way that you thought might interest your
[3:18] Speaker 1: fellow listeners. And before we jump into the facts here, guys,
[3:23] Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you all, like, what's your
[3:27] Speaker 1: experience with sunscreen? You know, experts recommend that you wear
[3:31] Speaker 1: it every day, every time that you're outside. And I
[3:35] Speaker 1: feel like, being somewhat of a troglodyte, which means cave
[3:40] Speaker 1: person myself, I feel like I definitely do not do
[3:44] Speaker 1: that because the sun is my ancient nemesis. How about
[3:47] Speaker 1: you guys? I burn.
[3:49] Speaker 2: I'm a pale boy. I just kind of go for
[3:52] Speaker 2: whichever sunscreen has like the most aluminum in it. I
[3:55] Speaker 2: feel like that's the one that's going to protect me
[3:56] Speaker 2: the best.
[3:57] Speaker 1: Hmm.
[3:58] Speaker 3: Interesting call. OK, yeah, I you know, yeah, I grew
[4:02] Speaker 3: up being covered in the stuff and I actually began
[4:07] Speaker 3: to resent the whole. OK, it's been it's been an
[4:11] Speaker 3: hour in the sun. Come on over here. Let's get
[4:13] Speaker 3: your back again. That's my mom probably speaking.
[4:17] Speaker 1: And your dad's in the background going, grease him up.
[4:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad. My dad just he doesn't burn. And
[4:26] Speaker 3: I don't understand it. He just doesn't burn.
[4:28] Speaker 1: Is he a leathery man?
[4:29] Speaker 3: He's a leatherman. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But but I always
[4:35] Speaker 3: burned like crazy. I would get crazy burns like the
[4:39] Speaker 3: stuff that no one wants to see, even in a
[4:41] Speaker 3: horror movie. And it, you know, it, I just didn't
[4:44] Speaker 3: like the process. So later in life, I don't really
[4:47] Speaker 3: wear sunscreen, but I wonder, Ben, like you, you have
[4:51] Speaker 3: a lot of travels. If you just end up somewhere
[4:54] Speaker 3: where you realize, oh man, I should probably be wearing
[4:57] Speaker 3: sunscreen for this. What is your go-to? Like, what do you,
[4:59] Speaker 3: how do you make a decision about what to get?
[5:02] Speaker 1: Ah, got it. That's an interesting question. That's a, that's
[5:05] Speaker 1: a bit of a setup there. And I greatly appreciate it. Um, First,
[5:09] Speaker 1: it's like that old story of what do you do
[5:12] Speaker 1: when you find yourself in the woods? Your first step
[5:15] Speaker 1: is to ask yourself, what the hell did I do
[5:18] Speaker 1: wrong to find myself in the woods? Yes, sunscreen is, again,
[5:24] Speaker 1: there are so many types, but it's recommended in general,
[5:31] Speaker 1: wherever you live, whoever you are, if you are spending
[5:35] Speaker 1: time outside during the day. Here are the facts. Okay.
[5:42] Speaker 3: Let's start right there.
[5:43] Speaker 1: It's cool.
[5:44] Speaker 3: It didn't answer my question, but it's cool. Let's go.
[5:45] Speaker 3: Let's move on.
[5:46] Speaker 1: Do you feel like I did not answer your question
[5:48] Speaker 1: as to so specifically then before you get into the
[5:52] Speaker 1: facts to answer your question? Yes. Depending, depending on the environment,
[5:57] Speaker 1: even I would keep sunscreen of some sort, but I
[6:02] Speaker 1: would typically I have to find some sort of natural
[6:07] Speaker 1: alternative to something store-bought, if that makes sense.
[6:10] Speaker 3: Got you. Oh, totally. That makes a ton of sense.
[6:14] Speaker 3: I guess the only reason I wanted to talk about
[6:15] Speaker 3: it is because I don't know if this is what
[6:18] Speaker 3: you out there listening do, but I'll find myself in a,
[6:21] Speaker 3: you know, depending on which city I'm in, just a
[6:24] Speaker 3: store that sells sunscreen. And I will just grab something.
[6:27] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
[6:28] Speaker 3: And I don't spend a ton of time thinking about
[6:31] Speaker 3: what it is. I go for a higher number just
[6:33] Speaker 3: because I am rather pale. But like I don't make
[6:37] Speaker 3: an informed decision ever.
[6:39] Speaker 1: I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like if you're if
[6:42] Speaker 1: you're going to a beach and you don't live by
[6:44] Speaker 1: a beach and you stop in at the. We'll just
[6:49] Speaker 1: fictionally call it the beach store. You stop in at
[6:51] Speaker 1: beach store or Panama Jacks or whatever it's going to
[6:54] Speaker 1: be called. Ron John, perhaps? Ron John. Yes. Yeah. It's
[6:58] Speaker 1: like a surf store. The surf store. Well, that's fine.
[7:00] Speaker 1: It's the same thing as the beach store. Hopefully, the
[7:04] Speaker 1: beach store and surf store owners who are listening to
[7:07] Speaker 1: the show right now will forgive us for conflating them unfairly,
[7:12] Speaker 1: if indeed we have. But you go in, you get
[7:14] Speaker 1: your beach towel, and you're like, I need my flip-flops
[7:17] Speaker 1: that I am inevitably going to lose or my children
[7:20] Speaker 1: will inevitably lose in the course of this pandemic. shore
[7:25] Speaker 1: shoreside adventure and then yes you grab you grab sunscreen
[7:29] Speaker 1: because you probably didn't bring it from home right uh
[7:32] Speaker 1: for many people and you're in a hurry because you
[7:35] Speaker 1: want to get to the beach right you want to
[7:36] Speaker 1: confront the infinity that is the horizon of the ocean
[7:41] Speaker 1: yes i uh i understand what you're saying now i
[7:44] Speaker 1: originally was thinking you meant like lost in the wilderness
[7:50] Speaker 1: somewhere off the grid, but you mean going, you mean
[7:54] Speaker 1: going somewhere recreationally. Yeah.
[7:57] Speaker 3: I assume many of us have just ended up at
[7:59] Speaker 3: a beach at some point for some, for one reason
[8:03] Speaker 3: or another. Yeah. And the big takeaway here is that
[8:08] Speaker 3: maybe a lot of us don't know or think much
[8:10] Speaker 3: about sunscreen.
[8:11] Speaker 1: We read the label. You see SPF, And you think,
[8:18] Speaker 1: I want the highest number. Why would somebody buy a
[8:21] Speaker 1: lower number? They're the same price. They're probably a few
[8:25] Speaker 1: dollars more. But it does feel weird, right? Like you're
[8:30] Speaker 1: looking at the range of SPFs and you're thinking, well.
[8:38] Speaker 1: I want full protection.
[8:39] Speaker 2: Protect me from the sun's cancerous rays. you know, give
[8:44] Speaker 2: me the super powered stuff.
[8:45] Speaker 1: Right. Right.
[8:47] Speaker 3: And just slightly alternatively, my wife is Cuban and she
[8:51] Speaker 3: doesn't like to wear full, like the full sunscreen. So
[8:54] Speaker 3: she gets the stuff that's like SPF four and they
[8:57] Speaker 3: call it like bronzing or, you know, these things that
[8:59] Speaker 3: like are supposed to help protect.
[9:01] Speaker 1: A little, a tan, like a copper tone kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. The, um,
[9:06] Speaker 1: the it's, it's funny that, that we're talking about this
[9:10] Speaker 1: at the very beginning because, um, I don't know about
[9:14] Speaker 1: anybody else, but I was always confused by the idea
[9:17] Speaker 1: that a company would know it could make the best
[9:20] Speaker 1: thing and then sell a lesser version of that thing.
[9:24] Speaker 1: And it happens in every industry, right? It's like, it's
[9:27] Speaker 1: weird that, um, you know, if you know that they're like,
[9:31] Speaker 1: if you are just picking things out of the blue,
[9:34] Speaker 1: like if you were Apple and why do you sell
[9:38] Speaker 1: multiple versions of the same computer when you know that
[9:41] Speaker 1: you could just, you could just sell the best one.
[9:44] Speaker 1: And then everybody would like, I get it. I understand
[9:47] Speaker 1: the economics of it. It just, it always felt strange
[9:50] Speaker 1: to me. And I think that's the same kind of
[9:52] Speaker 1: disconnect people experience when they run into sunscreen, but the
[9:58] Speaker 1: difference between sunscreen and a lot of those a lot
[10:03] Speaker 1: of other consumer products yes folks spoiler this is a
[10:07] Speaker 1: consumer products kind of episode and there is there are
[10:13] Speaker 1: a number of conspiracies afoot the difference between sunscreen and
[10:17] Speaker 1: a lot of other products is especially in the world
[10:19] Speaker 1: of skincare and makeup, is that sunscreen works. There is
[10:23] Speaker 1: scientific basis to it. It's not some kind of like,
[10:27] Speaker 1: woo woo, we had an angel sneeze on these pomegranate
[10:32] Speaker 1: leaves and then we rolled it up with, like, the
[10:36] Speaker 1: farts of puppies, and then we made it a cream,
[10:40] Speaker 1: and we sprayed it, and if you walk through it
[10:44] Speaker 1: at noon, your eye wrinkles will dissipate or something like that.
[10:48] Speaker 1: I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Well,
[10:52] Speaker 1: you know, people will do a lot if they feel
[10:54] Speaker 1: like they're combating aging. That's true.
[10:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all industry, the idea of slowing down the
[11:01] Speaker 2: hands of father time. And, you know, like cosmetic surgery
[11:06] Speaker 2: is probably the most extreme example of that. But so
[11:08] Speaker 2: many products, beauty products, skincare lines, where there is a
[11:14] Speaker 2: lot of snake oil wrapped up in it. And, you know, sure,
[11:17] Speaker 2: there's testimonials and things like that. But it's true, Ben.
[11:20] Speaker 2: I think it's a really good point that Sunscreen and
[11:22] Speaker 2: the whole idea of SPF and the gradations of that
[11:26] Speaker 2: is absolutely a scientifically proven thing that benefits you and
[11:31] Speaker 2: keeps those harmful rays from penetrating that sweet, sweet dermis.
[11:36] Speaker 1: So let's talk about it. Here are the facts. What
[11:39] Speaker 1: exactly is sunscreen? Well, it turns out sunscreen is kind
[11:45] Speaker 1: of like a cross, a very tiny cross we wave
[11:52] Speaker 1: at a very big vampire, and it protects you kind of,
[11:55] Speaker 1: because if you think about the normal day, the beautiful
[12:00] Speaker 1: spring that's occurring in Atlanta, you realize it's happening because
[12:04] Speaker 1: of some very scary stuff. We are... Right next to,
[12:10] Speaker 1: astronomically speaking, an enormous dying star. And it is screaming
[12:16] Speaker 1: as it dies in terms of energy. It is responsible
[12:19] Speaker 1: for the continued existence of life on Earth. It is amazing.
[12:24] Speaker 1: It is crucial. It is dangerous. And since ancient times,
[12:29] Speaker 1: human beings have been aware of this. And they've been like, hey,
[12:33] Speaker 1: this thing, right? creates the food that we eat, and
[12:39] Speaker 1: it also feels like it would kill us if it
[12:42] Speaker 1: was close enough. As a matter of fact, even if
[12:44] Speaker 1: we stand around it, it starts to mess with the
[12:47] Speaker 1: way we look and the way we feel. We have
[12:50] Speaker 1: to figure something out.
[12:51] Speaker 3: Yeah, and humans have been coming up with ways to
[12:55] Speaker 3: prevent the sun from harming them for millennia. And really,
[13:01] Speaker 3: you know, one of the best ones is to go
[13:04] Speaker 3: the troglodyte route. Stay inside as much as you can,
[13:09] Speaker 3: you know, and hunt when you have to and at
[13:11] Speaker 3: certain times. But other things have been really treatments, salves
[13:16] Speaker 3: that have been created, things to actually put on the
[13:18] Speaker 3: skin to stop the burning a lot of times, and
[13:22] Speaker 3: then other times to actually prevent the burning from happening
[13:25] Speaker 3: in the first place.
[13:26] Speaker 4: And.
[13:27] Speaker 3: It's all to stop this tiny little sliver of the
[13:32] Speaker 3: light spectrum, essentially, called ultraviolet.
[13:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, you definitely want to block that stuff because it
[13:38] Speaker 2: can give you all varieties of skin cancer. In addition
[13:43] Speaker 2: to just, you know, causing general wear and tear on
[13:46] Speaker 2: your skin overall, just, you know, from the effects.
[13:50] Speaker 1: Of the sun.
[13:51] Speaker 2: But yeah, it's something that has been on the minds
[13:54] Speaker 2: of humans since ancient times when folks, you know, already
[13:59] Speaker 2: were aware of these effects, these damaging effects that the
[14:02] Speaker 2: sun could have on the human body. In early civilizations,
[14:05] Speaker 2: folks developed some kind of more holistic remedies, I guess,
[14:10] Speaker 2: for treating the sun. They didn't really have science, but
[14:12] Speaker 2: they had trial and error. And in ancient Greece, for example,
[14:17] Speaker 2: they used olive oil. In Egypt, they would use extracts
[14:21] Speaker 2: of jasmine and rice and other plants and just, you know,
[14:24] Speaker 2: like you said, Matt, rub it on their body and
[14:27] Speaker 2: kind of like a poultice or a salve. And for
[14:31] Speaker 2: thousands of years, people have also used the element zinc,
[14:36] Speaker 2: zinc oxide in a paste form. And it's actually still
[14:39] Speaker 2: a very important ingredient in modern sunscreen.
[14:42] Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
[14:43] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[14:44] Speaker 1: It's true. You find something that works, you stick with
[14:47] Speaker 1: what works, right? This is inarguably, before we get into
[14:54] Speaker 1: the messed up parts of this idea, this is inarguably
[14:58] Speaker 1: a good idea. We're going to get into some messed
[15:02] Speaker 1: up stuff today. So it's important to note at the
[15:06] Speaker 1: offset here that sunscreen is in general a good idea.
[15:11] Speaker 1: Protecting yourself from the sun, obviously I'm very biased because
[15:15] Speaker 1: I see it as an antagonist, but still everyone can
[15:19] Speaker 1: agree protecting yourself and your loved ones from the sun.
[15:23] Speaker 1: I know I sound very pro-vampire right now. It's still
[15:26] Speaker 1: important because sunscreen doesn't just protect you from that very small,
[15:33] Speaker 1: dangerous sliver of the spectrum that you're describing, Matt, it
[15:38] Speaker 1: can also, while doing that, it lowers your risk of
[15:43] Speaker 1: some very nasty forms of skin cancer. It can prevent
[15:48] Speaker 1: premature aging of the skin. And if you are sensitive
[15:52] Speaker 1: about your skin and then this can assist in maintaining
[16:00] Speaker 1: what would be called an even skin tone, meaning it will,
[16:04] Speaker 1: if you are freckle prone like Matt and myself, then
[16:08] Speaker 1: sunscreen will reduce your freckle ratio, right? Yeah, you'd be surprised.
[16:13] Speaker 2: I got quite a lot of freckles on my arms,
[16:15] Speaker 2: not so much on my face, but tons of arm freckles.
[16:17] Speaker 1: It's weird. You know, freckles, it's a weird thing. I
[16:20] Speaker 1: don't understand. It's like I can tan incredibly intensely in
[16:25] Speaker 1: these tiny circles.
[16:27] Speaker 3: Yeah freckles it's a weird thing i agree i agree
[16:33] Speaker 3: freckles are strange but but so like if you hate
[16:36] Speaker 3: freckles sunscreen is great for you right that's that's what
[16:41] Speaker 3: an even skin tone probably let's that's a good way
[16:44] Speaker 3: to explain even skin tone.
[16:46] Speaker 1: So ancient times olive oil like noel said jasmine rice
[16:50] Speaker 1: extracts all the hits uh The story of modern sunscreen,
[16:55] Speaker 1: or what we call modern sunscreen, really starts in the 1930s,
[17:00] Speaker 1: kicks into high gear in 1944. There's a guy from Florida.
[17:05] Speaker 1: He's an airman, and he's a pharmacist. His name is
[17:08] Speaker 1: Benjamin Green, and he does something necessary but kind of gross.
[17:15] Speaker 1: He takes something called Red Vet Pets, which is a
[17:21] Speaker 1: short cutesy name for red veterinary petrolatum. So think of
[17:26] Speaker 1: like Vaseline. He takes this kind of Vaseline that comes
[17:31] Speaker 1: from the world of veterinary medicine and he slathers it
[17:36] Speaker 1: on himself and he's like talking to his fellow soldiers
[17:40] Speaker 1: and he's slathering on them during World War II and
[17:43] Speaker 1: he's like, the sun's going to kill us. We need
[17:46] Speaker 1: to protect ourselves. So they're slimy soldiers now.
[17:50] Speaker 3: That's pretty gross, dude.
[17:52] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[17:54] Speaker 3: Oh, man.
[17:55] Speaker 2: Can I take a tiny diversion real quick just to
[17:57] Speaker 2: bring up a lovely piece of pop culture surrounding sunscreen?
[18:01] Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys remember the song, the
[18:04] Speaker 2: Baz Luhrmann song, Everybody's Free to Wear Sunscreen, which was
[18:08] Speaker 2: actually featured in the opening sequence of season one. two
[18:13] Speaker 2: or three of The Sopranos, but it's taken from a
[18:16] Speaker 2: column by Mary Schmick from the Chicago Tribune on June
[18:21] Speaker 2: 1st of 1997, titled Advice Like Youth, Probably Just Wasting.
[18:25] Speaker 1: On the Young. And it gives all these pieces of advice.
[18:28] Speaker 2: It's meant to be like a commencement speech for a
[18:32] Speaker 2: graduating class that does not exist.
[18:33] Speaker 1: She didn't actually give this.
[18:34] Speaker 2: But it repeats the recommendation of wear sunscreen with other
[18:39] Speaker 2: little pithy pieces of advice. And there was actually like
[18:41] Speaker 2: an urban legend uh, that Kurt Vonnegut had delivered. This
[18:44] Speaker 2: is a commencement speech at MIT, uh, in 1987, but
[18:48] Speaker 2: that was totally not true. It's almost like a Mandela
[18:51] Speaker 2: effect kind of situation. Uh, Kurt Vonnegut even said when
[18:54] Speaker 2: he was pressed to like reprint this amazing speech that
[18:56] Speaker 2: he made, um, that he, uh, would proudly have taken
[19:00] Speaker 2: credit for the words if they were his, but, uh,
[19:01] Speaker 2: check out that song. If you get a chance, it's
[19:03] Speaker 2: a lot, a lot of fun and it's very inspiring.
[19:06] Speaker 1: Yeah. The, um, the thing that's described in that song
[19:10] Speaker 1: is not red vet pet, right?
[19:11] Speaker 2: Um, Right.
[19:13] Speaker 4: Right.
[19:13] Speaker 1: So so again, slimy soldiers, this is gross, gross stuff.
[19:20] Speaker 1: There's not a ton of science behind it other than
[19:23] Speaker 1: it being able to stick to the skin and function,
[19:27] Speaker 1: stick to human skin and function as a physical barrier
[19:30] Speaker 1: between the skin and the sun. I am holding a
[19:34] Speaker 1: very anti-sun position, but I have never deviated from this position.
[19:39] Speaker 1: You are consistently anti-sun. Well, please, please, let's just all
[19:44] Speaker 1: be aware of my bias, which is survival-based.
[19:48] Speaker 3: Why Red Vet Pet? Is it like petroleum? Or is
[19:53] Speaker 3: it like a slightly different substance? That's really interesting. Petrolatum.
[19:58] Speaker 3: I bet it's a petroleum-based substance.
[20:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Vaseline, basically.
[20:05] Speaker 3: Okay, got it.
[20:06] Speaker 1: The non-name-brand... or the non proprietary eponym is, is, would be, uh,
[20:14] Speaker 1: slimy and shiny soldiers. Yes. Slimy and shiny. And after
[20:20] Speaker 1: the war, after world war two, Benjamin green classes up
[20:24] Speaker 1: his act. He adds coconut oil to this. He adds
[20:27] Speaker 1: cocoa butter. It's getting fancy. Uh, this eventually will become
[20:32] Speaker 1: what is known as Coppertone suntan cream, which, um, you know, Matt,
[20:37] Speaker 1: earlier you were describing the idea of getting a little
[20:40] Speaker 1: bit of protection from the sun, but also helping yourself
[20:45] Speaker 1: acquire a tan, right? A general sheen about oneself. That's
[20:51] Speaker 1: what Coppertone is doing. And then at this time, there's
[20:56] Speaker 1: still no SPF. Like the one thing people care about
[21:00] Speaker 1: when they read a label on sunscreen today is SPF.
[21:04] Speaker 1: And that's doesn't exist until about the roundabouts in the 1970s. Yep.
[21:11] Speaker 3: And as we said, it's just a way to measure
[21:15] Speaker 3: and to show consumers exactly how much of those UV
[21:18] Speaker 3: rays are being blocked or what percentage. That's not a percentage, though.
[21:23] Speaker 3: That's not what the rating says. It becomes a tough
[21:26] Speaker 3: thing to even talk about. It is a percentage of
[21:31] Speaker 3: UV blocking power, but it's represented in a weird scale
[21:37] Speaker 3: that doesn't really make that much sense.
[21:39] Speaker 1: It's not super intuitive.
[21:41] Speaker 2: It measures the amount that gets through rather than the
[21:44] Speaker 2: amount that's blocked, right?
[21:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, so like SPF 15, it's like a measure over time.
[21:50] Speaker 1: So what it means is that 1 15th of harmful
[21:56] Speaker 1: radiation from that evil dying star will reach your skin. Uh,
[22:03] Speaker 1: in that, so you're like, okay, I've protected myself against
[22:06] Speaker 1: 14 of 15. Yes. Death rays from this space monster.
[22:15] Speaker 1: And that works as long as I have applied this at, um,
[22:21] Speaker 1: an even rate, which never happens, uh, of two milligrams
[22:27] Speaker 1: per centimeter of human skin. And then the person wearing
[22:32] Speaker 1: it has to change that every two hours, right? They
[22:35] Speaker 1: have to re-up. Just like Matt's parents called him over
[22:38] Speaker 1: and greased him up again.
[22:43] Speaker 3: That's always what it felt like. Let's grease you up
[22:45] Speaker 3: for a while.
[22:47] Speaker 1: They wanted you to have a good time at the beach. Today,
[22:50] Speaker 1: this is a massive industry. As research continued, sunscreen evolved.
[22:55] Speaker 1: So if you walk into your beach store or your
[22:59] Speaker 1: surf store, you will see multiple types of sunscreen, multiple brands,
[23:06] Speaker 1: water resistant stuff or stuff that purports to have sunscreen.
[23:10] Speaker 1: an amazingly high SPF. You'll also see broader spectrums of protection, right?
[23:16] Speaker 1: Like UVA, UVB protection, protecting you from both long and
[23:21] Speaker 1: short range ultraviolet rays. So far, so good, right? Well, no. Unfortunately,
[23:29] Speaker 1: when it comes to sunscreen, there is some stuff they
[23:33] Speaker 1: don't want you to know. We'll pause for a word
[23:35] Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Get greased up over here. We'll be back.
[23:46] Speaker 3: I definitely missed a part of my back.
[23:48] Speaker 1: Right.
[23:49] Speaker 3: Like, you know, right on the shoulders. Like sometimes you
[23:51] Speaker 3: ever get a sunburn where you can see your fingers. Yeah.
[23:55] Speaker 3: Where you kind of messed up.
[23:57] Speaker 2: The last time I tried to apply sunscreen, I realized
[23:59] Speaker 2: I hadn't done it in a long time. And I
[24:01] Speaker 2: did a really bad job. And I just had like,
[24:04] Speaker 2: you know, the white, the really creamy white kind that
[24:07] Speaker 2: you really have to rub in to make it disappear.
[24:09] Speaker 2: I got it all over my beard and it just
[24:11] Speaker 2: wasn't rubbed in at all. And I looked like a
[24:13] Speaker 2: freaking idiot. So, you know, applying sunscreen takes practice.
[24:18] Speaker 3: Gotta know what you're doing.
[24:20] Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. There are issues here. There
[24:24] Speaker 1: are two big issues. And Parker wrote to us about
[24:29] Speaker 1: one that maybe unfamiliar to a lot of our listeners
[24:34] Speaker 1: outside of the world of makeup or skincare, and that's
[24:37] Speaker 1: corruption in the sunscreen industry. Parker wrote to us specifically
[24:43] Speaker 1: about something called Purito Centella Green Level Unscented Sun, which, spoilers,
[24:50] Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realists, None of us knew about. None of
[24:55] Speaker 1: us had that light bulb moment where we said, oh, oh, no, burrito.
[25:01] Speaker 1: What happened to burrito?
[25:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, I was. I really didn't know if it was
[25:06] Speaker 3: pure burrito or burrito because I was hungry and I
[25:09] Speaker 3: thought about. Burritos is a burrito like a burrito for cats.
[25:13] Speaker 1: OK, I'm done.
[25:14] Speaker 2: No, but this is such a ridiculous name. It almost
[25:18] Speaker 2: feels like it needs a red vet pet type such
[25:21] Speaker 2: type shortening. But there really is nothing you can do
[25:24] Speaker 2: with burritos and tell a green level unscented sun.
[25:27] Speaker 1: So really, it's got to like power through it. But
[25:28] Speaker 1: apparently this was like really popular, right? It was like
[25:31] Speaker 1: known as.
[25:31] Speaker 2: The internet's favorite sunscreen. But it kind of got lampooned
[25:36] Speaker 2: a bit on social media when a study revealed that
[25:39] Speaker 2: they were not being particularly honest about the level of
[25:43] Speaker 2: protection that it offered.
[25:45] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[25:46] Speaker 1: So imagine you're at your beach store, you're at your
[25:49] Speaker 1: surf store, or you're just a person who takes care
[25:53] Speaker 1: of their skin. Like, obviously, none of us do on
[25:56] Speaker 1: this show. Look at us. Yeah, right? So you go
[26:00] Speaker 1: to this. No, we look okay, I think. Yeah, thanks, bud.
[26:03] Speaker 1: I think we look okay. So anyway, you're a hypothetical person,
[26:07] Speaker 1: no specific person. You care about your skin because you
[26:12] Speaker 1: want to be alive and not have skin cancer, and
[26:15] Speaker 1: you want to look relatively good. So you grab this stuff,
[26:20] Speaker 1: this green-level unscented sunscreen, Because it has SPF 50. Well,
[26:26] Speaker 1: a study came out that revealed this was not the
[26:30] Speaker 1: actual case. If you look at the ingredients, if you
[26:33] Speaker 1: take that stuff to a lab and you test for SPF,
[26:37] Speaker 1: you'll find that it has an SPF of 19, less
[26:41] Speaker 1: than half of the 50 it claims. Yikes. Yeah, and
[26:45] Speaker 1: we know that the experiments or the study that revealed
[26:49] Speaker 1: this is legit. It comes from something called INCI Decoder.
[26:57] Speaker 1: Let's put aside the question of whether this was like
[27:00] Speaker 1: purposely misleading or whether this was honestly a mistake or
[27:05] Speaker 1: a negligence issue. The thing is, this opens a door
[27:08] Speaker 1: to a much wider problem. It's not like one brand
[27:14] Speaker 1: of this sunscreen, is it?
[27:15] Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This goes across
[27:19] Speaker 3: the spectrum here. There was a Consumer Reports report that
[27:27] Speaker 3: came out not that long ago, and it found that...
[27:30] Speaker 3: 36 out of 53 sunscreens that it tested did not
[27:37] Speaker 3: have the SPF level represented. So it was lower than
[27:41] Speaker 3: what was represented on the bottle of spray or the
[27:44] Speaker 3: lotion or the bar that you're going to put on yourself,
[27:48] Speaker 3: whatever it was, it was a lower SPF than it
[27:51] Speaker 3: claimed to be.
[27:53] Speaker 2: How is the FDA not involved in this? Like you'd
[27:55] Speaker 2: think there'd be like sample testing to ensure that that
[27:58] Speaker 2: there is truth in advertising for these types of products
[28:01] Speaker 2: in the same way that, you know, drugs are regulated.
[28:04] Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing. There are a ton of reasons
[28:07] Speaker 3: why this could happen, right? It could be a single batch, right,
[28:11] Speaker 3: that maybe the SPF wasn't quite right, and maybe that's
[28:15] Speaker 3: just it. You tested a bad batch. You know, maybe
[28:18] Speaker 3: there are standards that are falling. There are a lot
[28:20] Speaker 3: of reasons.
[28:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, which are not necessarily– There are also loopholes around
[28:27] Speaker 1: kind of the government regulation or standards, right? Like how
[28:32] Speaker 1: do you test stuff? When do you test stuff? Which
[28:35] Speaker 1: is probably one of the biggest deals here. For instance,
[28:39] Speaker 1: if we think of the U.S. and other manufacturers, right,
[28:45] Speaker 1: from different countries here, then you can get around loopholes
[28:49] Speaker 1: by just taking off SPF. It's like, oh, hey, no, no,
[28:54] Speaker 1: we're not doing a sunscreen thing. We have some of
[28:56] Speaker 1: the ingredients, but we're not claiming it. Now we're just,
[29:00] Speaker 1: you know, now we're just good time sun lotions. No promises, right?
[29:07] Speaker 1: That's the motto. No promises.
[29:09] Speaker 3: No promises. But again, as we said before, and I
[29:12] Speaker 3: think this is true, one of the biggest purchasing factors
[29:16] Speaker 3: for a consumer is that giant SPF label and number, right?
[29:22] Speaker 1: So I appreciate the point you were making, Matt, which
[29:25] Speaker 1: is that this doesn't necessarily mean manufacturers are bad actors.
[29:30] Speaker 1: There could be bad storage, like you said, variations between batches.
[29:34] Speaker 1: different testing standards that's huge. Also, yes, counterfeit. yes fabrication
[29:43] Speaker 1: of testing results which is a little bit easier to
[29:46] Speaker 1: do than you might think.
[29:48] Speaker 3: I want to just we're gonna talk about this later
[29:50] Speaker 3: in the episode but we just kind of we've been
[29:53] Speaker 3: mentioned the storage of the substance and how that can
[29:56] Speaker 3: have be a factor and We have found in the
[29:59] Speaker 3: research that that is a major factor for some sunscreens
[30:04] Speaker 3: and the chemicals that are inside of them.
[30:06] Speaker 1: Oh, buddy, yeah. Expiration dates are not just for food
[30:12] Speaker 1: in your grocery store. So we can't, if we're being
[30:15] Speaker 1: absolutely fair, we can't say all of these companies are
[30:18] Speaker 1: lying to you. They're pawns of big sun and they
[30:21] Speaker 1: want you to burn. What we can say instead is
[30:26] Speaker 1: that the burden... the burden of informed consent is placed
[30:32] Speaker 1: on the consumer here. Parker sent this great article by
[30:38] Speaker 1: a writer named Rio Vera Newton, writing for The Strategist
[30:42] Speaker 1: in New York Magazine, and this author notes the impact
[30:48] Speaker 1: actual way to figure out what you're buying what you're
[30:52] Speaker 1: paying for and it it's some work you'd have to
[30:55] Speaker 1: be like if you're standing in front of sunscreen in
[30:57] Speaker 1: the grocery aisle or wherever at your beach store your
[31:00] Speaker 1: surf store that you would have to be on your
[31:02] Speaker 1: phone for a few minutes because you have to look
[31:05] Speaker 1: up a product's name or what's called an ndc number
[31:08] Speaker 1: which is a 10 digit number i know how how
[31:12] Speaker 1: how juicy is this right it's kind of dry it's
[31:15] Speaker 1: a 10 digit code that identifies drugs, labeler, product, and
[31:20] Speaker 1: trade package size on something called ndclist.com. And why do
[31:27] Speaker 1: you have to look up this crazy 10-digit number, this
[31:30] Speaker 1: like VIN, this V-I-N of a bottle of sunscreen? Because
[31:36] Speaker 1: that number verifies the FDA registration, the question you asked earlier, Noel,
[31:42] Speaker 1: and it shows that it's gone through testing in the U.S.,
[31:46] Speaker 1: That's not the whole step. The next step Rio says
[31:49] Speaker 1: is you have to go to consumer reports, which has
[31:53] Speaker 1: a lot of research on sunscreen and you have to
[31:55] Speaker 1: compare these. So at this point you are like at
[31:59] Speaker 1: least 12 minutes deep. in the sunscreen system on your
[32:05] Speaker 1: phone in front of the people are going to the
[32:07] Speaker 1: beach without you. You know what I mean? Yep.
[32:09] Speaker 4: Yep.
[32:11] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[32:13] Speaker 2: Maybe just like use a parasol instead, you know, or
[32:16] Speaker 2: a big floppy hat.
[32:17] Speaker 1: That probably helps.
[32:19] Speaker 2: But sunscreen is definitely a part of the skincare industry, right?
[32:25] Speaker 2: Even certain skin creams or moisturizers, for example, or like
[32:30] Speaker 2: various products, they'll have some form of sunscreen in them
[32:34] Speaker 2: or will offer some sort of SPF protection, even if
[32:36] Speaker 2: it's not just purely sun lotion. And there are absolutely
[32:42] Speaker 2: important and positive qualities to this product. It can, in fact,
[32:47] Speaker 2: stop those those ultraviolet rays from penetrating your skin and
[32:50] Speaker 2: causing cancer. That is unless it actually can cause cancer,
[32:57] Speaker 2: depending on what goes into the stuff.
[33:00] Speaker 1: And we'll pause on that cliffhanger. We have to pause there.
[33:05] Speaker 1: We'll be back after a word from our sponsor. And
[33:14] Speaker 1: we are back. We are still standing with you. In
[33:18] Speaker 1: our hypothetical beach surf shop, which we'll call it.
[33:27] Speaker 1: What should we call it? Ron Jon. Pauly Shores? I'm sorry, guys.
[33:32] Speaker 2: I keep harping on Ron Jon. I think people that
[33:34] Speaker 2: aren't from this part of the country don't even know
[33:36] Speaker 2: what that is. But I think it's a Myrtle Beach thing.
[33:38] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[33:38] Speaker 2: Or it's like, yeah. There's a shark. And I just
[33:41] Speaker 2: remember the t-shirts when I was a kid. It's a
[33:42] Speaker 2: nostalgia thing for me. Plus, it's fun to say Ron Jon.
[33:45] Speaker 2: But I love Pauly Shores. That's way better.
[33:47] Speaker 1: Well, they can all exist. You know, Myrtle Beach has
[33:51] Speaker 1: a booming economy. Right? So, like, there are a lot
[33:54] Speaker 1: of stores.
[33:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, it turns out 40% of their gross domestic product
[33:58] Speaker 2: comes from airbrushed T-shirts.
[34:00] Speaker 1: Right? And that's just the gross. So we're at Pauly Shores. Paul,
[34:07] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You drew the short surf straw on this one.
[34:11] Speaker 1: We're standing with you in this aisle. We're already spending
[34:16] Speaker 1: a lot of time trying to figure out What's happening
[34:21] Speaker 1: with this sunscreen? Is that SPF real, right? Because we
[34:27] Speaker 1: know it turns out for one reason or another, it
[34:29] Speaker 1: is often not what it purports to be. There's a
[34:33] Speaker 1: second problem. There have been multiple claims over the years.
[34:36] Speaker 1: You're thinking about this, right? Let's just get into this scenario.
[34:40] Speaker 1: You're thinking about this, you're looking at the sunscreen, and
[34:44] Speaker 1: you're on your phone, and you found this stuff, and
[34:47] Speaker 1: consumer reports, and blah, blah, blah, and you think, okay,
[34:50] Speaker 1: I've I found one that I think is going to work.
[34:53] Speaker 1: And then some dude breezes past you in flip flops
[34:57] Speaker 1: and cargo shorts. And he says, you know, he's a
[35:01] Speaker 1: bit of a Leatherman. And he says, don't fall for it, kid.
[35:06] Speaker 1: That stuff gives you cancer. There have been so many
[35:10] Speaker 1: claims in the past. that sunscreen itself, particularly the chemicals
[35:20] Speaker 1: in it, the active ingredients, can in fact harm your body,
[35:26] Speaker 1: harm your various systems, and in some cases become carcinogenic,
[35:34] Speaker 1: create cancerous conditions. Maybe not skin cancer, so maybe in
[35:39] Speaker 1: avoiding skin cancer, you are suffering from another type of
[35:44] Speaker 1: cancer because of the active ingredients in these substances is
[35:49] Speaker 1: that true let's see let's go to the experts right
[35:56] Speaker 1: let's go to the experts so that cargo shorts guy
[35:58] Speaker 1: breezes past drop some drop some conspiracy knowledge on you
[36:03] Speaker 1: on his way to get um What are those things
[36:08] Speaker 1: that go on your upper arm?
[36:10] Speaker 3: Floaties?
[36:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, on his way to get floaties. All right.
[36:16] Speaker 3: All right. All right. Choosing that one. Well, guess what?
[36:18] Speaker 3: That one that one causes cancer, buddy. Don't don't use
[36:21] Speaker 3: that one. I got to get these floaties over here.
[36:22] Speaker 1: That's pretty good, Matt.
[36:23] Speaker 3: Sorry. I've been watching his new YouTube channel recently.
[36:26] Speaker 1: Matthew McConaughey's YouTube channel. You know, he I saw this amazing,
[36:33] Speaker 1: insightful interview with him. I don't know. He's a smart dude.
[36:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[36:37] Speaker 3: Dude's going to be running Texas before you know it.
[36:40] Speaker 3: It's coming.
[36:40] Speaker 1: I have no doubt about it.
[36:42] Speaker 2: Probably one of my most shining moments in podcasting was
[36:45] Speaker 2: I got to be on a call with Matthew McConaughey.
[36:48] Speaker 2: It wasn't video, but that voice, man, unmistakable. He was
[36:52] Speaker 2: pitching a podcast. Obviously, he went the YouTube route. Hey,
[36:55] Speaker 2: there's still time and room.
[36:58] Speaker 3: To a podcast okay sorry um no let's go you
[37:02] Speaker 3: go to the experts right you don't that guy you
[37:04] Speaker 3: can't trust that guy not not mcconaughey but the dude
[37:06] Speaker 3: that was there in the store who knows played.
[37:09] Speaker 1: By mcconaughey clearly yeah yeah we have established that in
[37:12] Speaker 1: this scenario.
[37:14] Speaker 3: But uh you know you can't take somebody's just quick
[37:18] Speaker 3: offhand comment as fact. So you got to look to
[37:21] Speaker 3: the experts. What are they saying? Well, here's the deal.
[37:24] Speaker 3: You're looking at studies from experts or at least scientists
[37:29] Speaker 3: or people who are researchers who are spending a lot
[37:32] Speaker 3: of time and effort to get results, maybe, or maybe
[37:36] Speaker 3: they're working for a company or maybe they're working against
[37:39] Speaker 3: a company. Because what you end up looking at when
[37:43] Speaker 3: you're when you're researching this stuff is that you've got
[37:47] Speaker 3: some folks saying that these studies are legitimate. And then others,
[37:52] Speaker 3: a lot of experts saying these, a lot of the
[37:54] Speaker 3: studies that say some of these things are essentially misinformation
[37:58] Speaker 3: or disinformation. Like it's not right. And it's the results
[38:03] Speaker 3: that are being regurgitated, you know, just in spoken about
[38:07] Speaker 3: are actually mischaracterized.
[38:09] Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Let's take, for example, Dr. Jennifer Lin, who
[38:14] Speaker 1: is an assistant professor of dermatology at Harvard Medical School,
[38:18] Speaker 1: co-director of Melanoma Risk and Prevention Clinic. She has an
[38:23] Speaker 1: insightful response about some of the kind of alarmist or
[38:26] Speaker 1: fear-mongering reports here, specifically about oxybenzone. And she says there
[38:33] Speaker 1: has been no conclusive evidence that oxybenzone is harmful to humans.
[38:38] Speaker 3: Asterisk.
[38:40] Speaker 1: And she notes something that happens in a lot of
[38:43] Speaker 1: studies and a lot of pop science. You'll hear a
[38:46] Speaker 1: study that says like, insert substance X or substance so-and-so
[38:53] Speaker 1: has been found to cause cancer in mammals or, you know,
[38:58] Speaker 1: to somehow like have a deleterious effect on you. But
[39:02] Speaker 1: they don't talk about how that study was conducted or
[39:05] Speaker 1: what actually happened. So Dr. Lin points out that organizations
[39:11] Speaker 1: that have raised concerns about oxybenzone cite studies that were
[39:16] Speaker 1: done on rats, which are not human yet, and that
[39:20] Speaker 1: rats were physically fed oxybenzone. They weren't shaving the rats
[39:26] Speaker 1: and then putting sunscreen on them. They were forcing them
[39:28] Speaker 1: to eat this stuff. And according to Dr. Lin, it would, quote,
[39:33] Speaker 1: take an individual human being, I imagine, 277 years of
[39:38] Speaker 1: sunscreen use to achieve the same dose that produced the
[39:42] Speaker 1: harmful effects in these rats. And that's based on a
[39:46] Speaker 1: study from the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology
[39:49] Speaker 1: in 2017. But think carefully, right?
[39:53] Speaker 3: 2017.
[39:54] Speaker 1: It's a number of years ago.
[39:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, four almost.
[40:01] Speaker 1: So what changes? This is the second big issue. There's
[40:07] Speaker 1: a recent study that came out, 2021. It turns out
[40:11] Speaker 1: that sunscreen, the stuff you use to prevent skin cancer
[40:15] Speaker 1: from exposure to sunlight, might actually, yes, have a chance
[40:19] Speaker 1: of giving you cancer. That's the claim people are making.
[40:24] Speaker 1: This study, which was by several French and U.S. scientists
[40:29] Speaker 1: looked at skincare brands overall, L'Oreal, Neutrogena, Bioderma, like the
[40:36] Speaker 1: big ones. Picture the big brands of skincare. It looked
[40:40] Speaker 1: at all of these, and it looked especially at something
[40:44] Speaker 1: called octocrylene.
[40:46] Speaker 3: Octocrylene. Sounds interesting. It's a chemical, right? And this is
[40:52] Speaker 3: kind of weird. It's a bit difficult to navigate because
[40:54] Speaker 3: octocrylene isn't necessarily the issue, the bad thing, that octocrylene itself.
[41:02] Speaker 3: What happens is over time, it degrades into something called benzophenone.
[41:08] Speaker 1: Yeah. And benzophenone is the, um, think of it like
[41:12] Speaker 1: the final form, right? Think of it, think of it like, um,
[41:17] Speaker 1: If octocrylene is the mogwai, benzophenone is the gremlin. Wow,
[41:24] Speaker 1: that's actually pretty, not a bad comparison.
[41:27] Speaker 3: You just feed it time. Don't feed it time.
[41:31] Speaker 1: Yes, don't feed it time.
[41:34] Speaker 3: This is weird.
[41:35] Speaker 1: So octocrylene is already controversial. in a number of places
[41:40] Speaker 1: due to concerns about its effect not on humans, but
[41:43] Speaker 1: on the overall environment. It's been banned in a couple
[41:46] Speaker 1: of places, including Hawaii and the U.S. Virgin Islands. This
[41:51] Speaker 1: study did something pretty neat. They said, we need to
[41:56] Speaker 1: figure out what happens to sunscreen when it's just left
[42:00] Speaker 1: on a shelf. Because think about it, the sunscreen you
[42:02] Speaker 1: probably buy is not uh refrigerated or something like that
[42:07] Speaker 1: you know what i mean it's not like in a
[42:09] Speaker 1: cool dry cellar or something like it's just it's on
[42:12] Speaker 1: the shelf next to the flip-flops next to the towels
[42:15] Speaker 1: next to the floaties etc.
[42:18] Speaker 3: And it's been sitting in poly shores for a while
[42:21] Speaker 3: and it's been in poly shores for a while uh
[42:23] Speaker 3: might even have some visible dust on the top of
[42:26] Speaker 3: the cap This study used an artificial aging process to
[42:32] Speaker 3: replicate that passage of time to show what like to
[42:37] Speaker 3: show what happens to these products when they've sat on
[42:40] Speaker 3: a shelf at Pauly Shores for around a year, ballpark
[42:44] Speaker 3: a year.
[42:46] Speaker 1: The thing is that the concentration of this chemical, this
[42:50] Speaker 1: harmful chemical is increases the longer it sits on that shelf.
[42:56] Speaker 1: So we're reading SPF, but what you should be reading
[42:59] Speaker 1: is the expiration date. According to FDA regulations, sunscreen has
[43:06] Speaker 1: a shelf life of three years. Oh, wow. Yeah, but
[43:11] Speaker 1: this study shows if it's on that shelf for a year,
[43:14] Speaker 1: depending if this one thing, this octocrylene is in it,
[43:18] Speaker 1: then it is slowly kind of Jekyll and hiding into
[43:22] Speaker 1: the thing that is very easily absorbed by your skin
[43:25] Speaker 1: that you very much do not want in your body.
[43:29] Speaker 2: And it gets worse over time. I believe the concentration
[43:32] Speaker 2: can actually increase the longer that you leave it on
[43:36] Speaker 2: the shelf. So it's very, very important to keep a
[43:40] Speaker 2: close eye on those expiration dates.
[43:43] Speaker 1: And this stuff, by the way, Benzophenone is banned for
[43:48] Speaker 1: use as an ingredient in food or an ingredient in cosmetics.
[43:54] Speaker 1: So it's not there. It's not legally allowed to be
[44:00] Speaker 1: in that bottle of whatever you buy. And it's more
[44:02] Speaker 1: than sunscreen, by the way. There was a study in
[44:05] Speaker 1: the 1990s that found just how successfully this stuff is
[44:11] Speaker 1: absorbed by the skin And it makes a pretty solid
[44:15] Speaker 1: argument to, before regulation, you know, to prohibit this chemical
[44:21] Speaker 1: from being included in stuff like sunscreen or shampoo or perfume.
[44:26] Speaker 1: But the problem goes even further. Octocrylene has not met
[44:32] Speaker 1: those FDA regulations for safety or effectiveness. Still, I think
[44:36] Speaker 1: it still hasn't. Like as of February 2019, as of
[44:40] Speaker 1: two years ago, this stuff was still not meeting the
[44:46] Speaker 1: guidelines from the FDA, which means that if you wore
[44:50] Speaker 1: sunscreen anytime before 2019, depending on what you bought, the
[44:59] Speaker 1: odds aren't looking great. Unless you like rolled in mud,
[45:02] Speaker 1: hippo or elephant style to protect yourself from the sun,
[45:06] Speaker 1: you probably got some of this stuff in you. Yeah.
[45:10] Speaker 3: And let's talk really quickly a little more about the
[45:12] Speaker 3: Hawaii banning, because that just occurred. Hawaii just passed legislation
[45:19] Speaker 3: that banned two chemicals in sunscreens. I'll actually pull up
[45:23] Speaker 3: the Senate bill here. Center for Biological Diversity sent this
[45:28] Speaker 3: out on March 9th of this year, 2021, and they
[45:32] Speaker 3: are banning two petrochemicals within sunscreens. avobenzone and octocrylene and
[45:41] Speaker 3: the two of the biggest things that came out of
[45:44] Speaker 3: this or one of the biggest reasons that they're banning
[45:47] Speaker 3: it is because they've found that these chemicals are actually
[45:51] Speaker 3: bleaching the coral reefs around Hawaii these chemicals are coming
[45:57] Speaker 3: off of people's skin when the sunscreen is applied to
[46:00] Speaker 3: them and hurting the environment to that like having a
[46:03] Speaker 3: huge effect on the environment that's That's a big deal,
[46:08] Speaker 3: and they're chemicals that you're putting on your body directly
[46:12] Speaker 3: that's being absorbed, as Ben said.
[46:15] Speaker 1: It's not a super sunny proposition. I will never forgive
[46:21] Speaker 1: myself for that one. You're absolutely right, Matt. It's important
[46:25] Speaker 1: to note that this process, which has been proven by
[46:29] Speaker 1: this study, or there's a strong argument that it occurs
[46:33] Speaker 1: fairly commonly, This process was welcomed by people who believed
[46:38] Speaker 1: previous myths or mischaracterizations about ugly chemicals in skincare products.
[46:46] Speaker 1: So it kind of fed the fire, right? It turned
[46:49] Speaker 1: out there was a grain of truth to some of
[46:53] Speaker 1: the allegations or some of the suspicions and rumors that
[46:57] Speaker 1: According to Dr. Sharon Lohan, this stuff, benzophenone, is the
[47:03] Speaker 1: worst offender in causing contact dermatitis. It can also induce anaphylaxis,
[47:10] Speaker 1: and it is classified as carcinogenic by the International Agency
[47:15] Speaker 1: for Research on Cancer, which is part of the World
[47:19] Speaker 1: Health Organization. So people are aware of this. People are
[47:23] Speaker 1: aware of this, including the industry. In 2019, almost 3,000
[47:29] Speaker 1: different like products, which is such a vague term, but
[47:32] Speaker 1: 3,000 like, you know, kinds of shampoo, kinds of sunscreen,
[47:37] Speaker 1: kinds of, I'm guessing here, what's another skin thing? Moisturizer?
[47:42] Speaker 1: Is that? Okay.
[47:44] Speaker 3: Okay.
[47:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[47:45] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[47:45] Speaker 2: Cetaphil is a real popular one. It's really apparently quite
[47:48] Speaker 2: important to moisturize every day. I don't do it every day,
[47:51] Speaker 2: but I try to get to it when I remember. Um,
[47:54] Speaker 2: but yeah, no, it's true.
[47:56] Speaker 1: So there's another thing that happened, which was the, um,
[47:59] Speaker 1: you know, these stories pop up with like, uh, you've
[48:02] Speaker 1: heard about it before, uh, rat feces in cereal. Right.
[48:06] Speaker 1: And I don't know if you guys remember that when
[48:08] Speaker 1: there was a long time story where people would say, actually,
[48:12] Speaker 1: the FDA allows a certain amount of rat feces in cereal. Uh,
[48:17] Speaker 1: there's only so much you can do. You can't, you
[48:19] Speaker 1: can't ever have 0% rat poop cereal. Right.
[48:23] Speaker 2: It's like the idea of a grade E meat at
[48:25] Speaker 2: Taco Bell containing some percentage of rat meat or something
[48:28] Speaker 2: like that.
[48:29] Speaker 1: Exactly. The idea being that it's legal, but it's a
[48:32] Speaker 1: loophole that a lot of people don't know about. Like
[48:35] Speaker 1: someone in the industry is saying, okay, all right, Uncle Sam. Clearly,
[48:40] Speaker 1: if there was anyone able to make cereal with 0%
[48:43] Speaker 1: rat feces, they would put that on the front of
[48:48] Speaker 1: the box, right? It'd be like right next to the
[48:50] Speaker 1: Raisin Bran. There's the no rat poop.
[48:53] Speaker 3: What am I going to do? Get all the rats
[48:55] Speaker 3: out of here?
[48:56] Speaker 1: Oh, come on.
[48:57] Speaker 3: I'm making cereal here.
[49:01] Speaker 1: We're a cereal company, not an exterminator service, sir. I'm
[49:08] Speaker 1: just thinking, like, is that, what kind of integration, what
[49:14] Speaker 1: kind of integration is that where you say, you know,
[49:16] Speaker 1: we started off making cereal. add all this rat poop
[49:20] Speaker 1: in it. And we were like, is this a feature?
[49:23] Speaker 1: Is this a bug? A long story short, we killed
[49:27] Speaker 1: the rats, sold the meat to Taco Bell. We kept
[49:30] Speaker 1: the poop. We got two scoops of it. Raisin bread.
[49:36] Speaker 1: Apparently by Bernie Sanders.
[49:39] Speaker 2: I come to you once more to tell you that
[49:42] Speaker 2: there are definitely three scoops of raisins in every box.
[49:45] Speaker 3: Of Raisin Bran.
[49:47] Speaker 1: So three scoops, they went up, huh?
[49:49] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[49:49] Speaker 1: Is it only two? Well, that third scoop is rat poop.
[49:54] Speaker 1: So this, we are hopefully joking, but it is true
[50:00] Speaker 1: that something similar has happened with the sunscreen industry. the
[50:04] Speaker 1: French Federation of Beauty Enterprises, an industry organization, a trade organization,
[50:10] Speaker 1: responded to this study and they basically said, yeah, we know.
[50:16] Speaker 1: We know that this octocrylene is in here. We know
[50:19] Speaker 1: that it turns into this dangerous chemical. But look at
[50:24] Speaker 1: the study. They said these are always below the toxicity
[50:29] Speaker 1: thresholds that are safe for human health, which is a
[50:33] Speaker 1: lot like saying, you know, you can eat a couple
[50:36] Speaker 1: spiders in your oatmeal. You can have a little bit
[50:40] Speaker 1: of rat poop. You can have a little bit of
[50:42] Speaker 1: rat poop as a treat. Well, even as a treat.
[50:46] Speaker 4: Indeed.
[50:46] Speaker 2: Even like, you know, in regulation of fisheries, you know,
[50:51] Speaker 2: and wildlife and certain allowable amounts of pollution and water,
[50:56] Speaker 2: like there are mercury plants warnings you know for certain
[51:00] Speaker 2: bodies of water because it absorbs into the fish but
[51:02] Speaker 2: there also is an allowable level of mercury which seems
[51:06] Speaker 2: like it would be zero but it's not zero but
[51:08] Speaker 2: also we are talking like you know parts per million
[51:12] Speaker 2: or billion in some cases so you know there is
[51:14] Speaker 2: truth to this even as squeamish as it sounds to
[51:17] Speaker 2: say toxicity thresholds or the idea of things that are
[51:21] Speaker 2: acceptable for human health it certainly makes you cringe but
[51:25] Speaker 2: I mean it's not untrue right Right. Yeah.
[51:28] Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about something happening at scale. You
[51:32] Speaker 1: know what I mean? How can any organization keep its
[51:37] Speaker 1: eye on every falling sparrow of a contaminant? It's quite difficult.
[51:42] Speaker 1: But in this case, toxicity levels or thresholds aside, like
[51:49] Speaker 1: the reason that this trade organization responded by pointing out
[51:55] Speaker 1: these thresholds and saying, yeah, this stuff is dangerous, but
[51:59] Speaker 1: it's not dangerous in the amounts that are found by
[52:03] Speaker 1: the study. It's because it is virtually impossible to regulate
[52:11] Speaker 1: a bunch of these things effectively. But in this case,
[52:15] Speaker 1: there's like clearly one that clearly transforms into this other thing.
[52:22] Speaker 1: And no one's saying change the recipe. What they're saying
[52:25] Speaker 1: is it's okay because there's not enough of it there,
[52:31] Speaker 1: which is like saying, hey, at this point, the rat
[52:36] Speaker 1: poop is part of the cereal. You know what I mean?
[52:38] Speaker 1: It's part of the ingredients here. We're going to take
[52:42] Speaker 1: it out? Yeah. That would destroy Raisin Bran. We're going
[52:46] Speaker 1: to get a letter from Raisin Bran.
[52:47] Speaker 3: Well, it's still my favorite cereal. So no matter how
[52:51] Speaker 3: much poop is in there. Are you kidding me?
[52:53] Speaker 1: I love it.
[52:53] Speaker 3: What are you also like, you eat grape nuts too,
[52:56] Speaker 3: old man? I don't like grape nuts. Oh God. Uh,
[53:00] Speaker 3: sorry grape nuts i just don't and i'm not into
[53:02] Speaker 3: it but raisin bran specifically i think it's raisin crunchy
[53:05] Speaker 3: raisin bran or whatever it is does it have.
[53:07] Speaker 2: The clusters you like the one with the nut clusters.
[53:09] Speaker 4: Dude all okay i just don't like raisins yeah i
[53:14] Speaker 4: find i'm not a raisin zombie grapes these raisins are
[53:17] Speaker 4: zombie grapes they're useless fruit they're the lich kings of grapes.
[53:25] Speaker 1: Now, I like a crazen.
[53:27] Speaker 2: I do like a crazen, which is essentially the same process, Ben.
[53:31] Speaker 2: But for some reason, a raisin just doesn't do it
[53:33] Speaker 2: for me. Don't like our oatmeal raisin cookie? Like an
[53:35] Speaker 2: oatmeal cookie. Put the raisins in there. Entirely different cookie.
[53:39] Speaker 2: Different experience.
[53:41] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, oatmeal raisin cookies.
[53:43] Speaker 2: Sorry, Matt.
[53:43] Speaker 3: Sorry we're raisin shaming you, Matt.
[53:45] Speaker 1: I feel like we're ganging up on you. No, it's
[53:47] Speaker 1: more raisins for you, man.
[53:49] Speaker 3: Thank you, guys. You can have that third scoop. Oatmeal
[53:54] Speaker 3: raisin really is my favorite cookie.
[53:55] Speaker 1: That's wild.
[53:56] Speaker 3: Are you serious?
[53:57] Speaker 1: I feel like I'm not a big cookie person, but
[54:01] Speaker 1: any time I see a cookie that I assume is
[54:05] Speaker 1: chocolate chip and it turns out it's like oatmeal raisin,
[54:09] Speaker 1: I feel swindled.
[54:10] Speaker 2: Absolutely.
[54:12] Speaker 1: I feel like the, the, the motto for it's like
[54:15] Speaker 1: oatmeal raisin. This is settling. You know what I mean?
[54:20] Speaker 3: Like it's a cookie. Look, my grandfather used to make
[54:23] Speaker 3: me cinnamon raisin toast all the time when I would
[54:27] Speaker 3: go visit him. And I have such a special place
[54:29] Speaker 3: in my heart for that. I then developed a psychological
[54:33] Speaker 3: connection to raisins and cinnamon and That's where my oatmeal
[54:37] Speaker 3: raisin thing and even my raisin brand, it all just goes.
[54:40] Speaker 3: It's all caught up in there.
[54:41] Speaker 1: Well, Matt, it's like, look, yeah, there's no shaming here.
[54:46] Speaker 1: I just if now that I know this, I am
[54:50] Speaker 1: going to be like much more cognizant of. where raisins
[54:56] Speaker 1: and oatmeal raisin cookies should go like check your desk
[55:00] Speaker 1: later because anytime i get one of these it's going
[55:02] Speaker 1: straight to you man that's the best i can do
[55:05] Speaker 1: like i also the the sense i we're going somewhere
[55:10] Speaker 1: with this folks the the sense of taste and preference
[55:15] Speaker 1: for what you eat is inherently tied into memory it's
[55:19] Speaker 1: tied into smell it's tied into texture many of like Smell, actually,
[55:26] Speaker 1: much more so than taste. That brings your memories. That's
[55:31] Speaker 1: why we have such visceral reactions to concepts of food.
[55:38] Speaker 1: That's also why this entire time you were hearing this episode,
[55:42] Speaker 1: some part of you was smelling sunscreen. Yep. Which is weird.
[55:46] Speaker 1: That's like Morgan Freeman saying, you read this whole thing
[55:48] Speaker 1: in my voice.
[55:50] Speaker 2: Well, so, Ben, when you say smelling sunscreen, I mean,
[55:53] Speaker 2: surely there are scents and perfumes that are added to
[55:57] Speaker 2: some sunscreens. But there is that quintessential sunscreen smell. Is
[56:02] Speaker 2: that the chemicals that we're smelling that really make it
[56:06] Speaker 2: have that distinct kind of like nostalgic quality? And then
[56:10] Speaker 2: you've got ones that smell like coconut, but they still
[56:12] Speaker 2: have that certain little twinge of a chemical smell.
[56:14] Speaker 3: It's that cocoa butter and coconut oil, man. You're right.
[56:17] Speaker 3: That's what it is. It's the original.
[56:20] Speaker 1: The red vet pet set. Get that.
[56:25] Speaker 3: All the other words.
[56:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. It's true. There there is this nostalgic factor.
[56:35] Speaker 1: There is a sense memory. And part of that part
[56:38] Speaker 1: of the reason that feeling is ubiquitous is is because
[56:43] Speaker 1: sunscreen does work, and it's because people do need to
[56:49] Speaker 1: use it or use something like it. You know what
[56:51] Speaker 1: I mean? Sunscreen, the concept of sunscreen, is what I
[56:55] Speaker 1: would call a non-human invention, by which I mean before
[56:59] Speaker 1: human beings became what are called human beings today, there
[57:04] Speaker 1: were other animals before. who figured this out, right? They said,
[57:08] Speaker 1: we need to protect ourselves from the sun. We'll roll
[57:11] Speaker 1: in the mud. We'll go under the water, et cetera,
[57:14] Speaker 1: et cetera. This is an ancient thing. And it's a
[57:17] Speaker 1: thing that many creatures on earth need. But there is
[57:22] Speaker 1: also an industry that is possibly creating other problems by
[57:27] Speaker 1: fixing the one it's focused on. And so, as we said,
[57:30] Speaker 1: the burden falls on the consumer. The best thing you
[57:34] Speaker 1: can do is read the label carefully. I know it's
[57:37] Speaker 1: cool to meet Matthew McConaughey when he glides by in
[57:40] Speaker 1: cargo shorts and floaties and then maybe clowns you. And
[57:46] Speaker 1: I know it's awkward to be on your phone for
[57:49] Speaker 1: 10 minutes, 10, 15 minutes in front of the sunscreen aisle,
[57:53] Speaker 1: but maybe it's worth the time. It is indeed well said.
[57:56] Speaker 2: I did want to point out one thing just because
[57:57] Speaker 2: I referenced it jokingly at the top of the show
[58:00] Speaker 2: saying I might sunscreen of choice would be the one
[58:02] Speaker 2: that has the most aluminum in it.
[58:04] Speaker 1: That is a thing.
[58:06] Speaker 2: There was a study at Keele University in Stratfordshire back
[58:10] Speaker 2: in 2007 where they took six samples of six different
[58:16] Speaker 2: brands of sunscreen and found pretty alarming levels of aluminum
[58:22] Speaker 2: in them. The World Health Organization recommends applying sunscreen 35
[58:26] Speaker 2: milliliters of sunscreen to get, you know, the actual benefit
[58:30] Speaker 2: of it and then also reapplying it. And according to
[58:33] Speaker 2: the study for these particular brands, it would essentially amount
[58:39] Speaker 2: to putting 200 milligrams of aluminum on your skin.
[58:43] Speaker 1: And aluminum salts are permeable. You know, they can be
[58:47] Speaker 1: absorbed by the skin.
[58:49] Speaker 2: And potentially, you know, it's not like a sure thing
[58:51] Speaker 2: cancer causer, but it's certainly not good for you.
[58:55] Speaker 1: This was back in 2007, though.
[58:56] Speaker 2: So surely there's been some movement is I know there
[59:00] Speaker 2: was also like, I think certain antiperspirants definitely have some
[59:03] Speaker 2: chemicals that people are freaked out by because, you know,
[59:06] Speaker 2: there's certain.
[59:06] Speaker 1: People that want to use the ones that like really
[59:08] Speaker 1: don't work because they don't.
[59:10] Speaker 2: Have the the bad stuff in them um but they're
[59:13] Speaker 2: still like the ones that are like white and you
[59:15] Speaker 2: know completely dry out your armpit sorry for that image
[59:18] Speaker 2: there but just wanted to mention that because the aluminum.
[59:20] Speaker 3: Thing i said at the top of the show that
[59:21] Speaker 3: that was not just something i made up and then
[59:24] Speaker 3: yeah as you said but it is it's on it's
[59:27] Speaker 3: on us To figure it out. Unless you live in
[59:30] Speaker 3: a state like Hawaii that straight up banned it. Because,
[59:33] Speaker 3: you know, they pointed to older and newer studies and
[59:37] Speaker 3: even studies that have yet to be published on some
[59:40] Speaker 3: of these chemicals that we discussed today and what could
[59:44] Speaker 3: be happening. They even mentioned disrupting human hormones.
[59:49] Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. An endocrine disruptor. And there's good news.
[59:53] Speaker 2: Another study that I came across from the American Institute
[59:56] Speaker 2: of Physics talks about how toxicity screenings of these types
[1:00:01] Speaker 2: of products has gotten much, much, much better and easier
[1:00:05] Speaker 2: using something called microfluidic devices. And the summary for the
[1:00:09] Speaker 2: study says scientists are using nanoparticle screening on personal care
[1:00:13] Speaker 2: products and finding previously thought toxic chemicals may not be harmful.
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: Researchers discussed their work successfully using microchips to demonstrate titanium dioxide,
[1:00:24] Speaker 2: a chemical found in most sunscreens, not only is non-toxic,
[1:00:27] Speaker 2: but also offers protection against ultraviolet damage to skin cells.
[1:00:31] Speaker 1: So I would like to recommend for anybody who wants
[1:00:33] Speaker 1: to read more in depth, read the study that we've
[1:00:37] Speaker 1: referenced regarding sunscreen in this, the episode where we ruin sunscreen,
[1:00:43] Speaker 1: go to the journal Chemical Research in Toxicology And you
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: will find it under the quite dry title, Benzophenone Accumulates
[1:00:53] Speaker 1: Over Time from the Degradation of Octocrylene in Commercial Sunscreen Products. Whew,
[1:01:00] Speaker 1: sexy title. Yep, yep, it's right up there with Faulkner,
[1:01:06] Speaker 1: I am sure historians will agree. What do you think
[1:01:10] Speaker 1: should be done, folks? What do you think can be
[1:01:12] Speaker 1: done other than, as I said before, I do want
[1:01:16] Speaker 1: to leave you with that image of taking the time
[1:01:19] Speaker 1: in front of the sunscreen aisle, and I don't want
[1:01:21] Speaker 1: that to be lost because it is important. At some
[1:01:25] Speaker 1: point in every human being's life, your health becomes the
[1:01:30] Speaker 1: primary concern. Now, it can be a concern that you
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: are proactive about. It can be a concern when something
[1:01:39] Speaker 1: goes wrong. But at some point, no matter who you are,
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: no matter what you do, you will place your health
[1:01:46] Speaker 1: as a number one priority. So maybe that 10 minutes
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: is worth it. That's my proposition there. And you know,
[1:01:56] Speaker 1: that doesn't just go But is there is there a
[1:02:00] Speaker 1: solution that companies could do for this? Is there a
[1:02:03] Speaker 1: way first to Parker's note? Is there a way to
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: guarantee the SPF on the on the label is honest?
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: Is there a way to properly avoid? dangerous chemicals, and
[1:02:17] Speaker 1: just as importantly, to figure out the facts versus the
[1:02:20] Speaker 1: fiction in allegations of harmful chemicals. Because remember, until 2021,
[1:02:26] Speaker 1: a lot of the warnings about sunscreen were misinformation. They
[1:02:34] Speaker 1: were misinformed, at the very least. Let us know. We
[1:02:37] Speaker 1: want to hear from you. You are the most important
[1:02:39] Speaker 1: part of this show. We try to make it easy
[1:02:42] Speaker 1: to find us online.
[1:02:43] Speaker 3: That's right. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter
[1:02:46] Speaker 3: where we are Conspiracy Stuff. On Instagram, we are Conspiracy
[1:02:49] Speaker 3: Stuff Show. On YouTube, we are Conspiracy Stuff. Hey, and
[1:02:53] Speaker 3: if you like hanging out on YouTube and you're interested
[1:02:56] Speaker 3: in this topic, check out, I think it's Med... Oh, gosh,
[1:03:00] Speaker 3: is it Med School Insiders? Yeah, Med School Insiders. They've
[1:03:03] Speaker 3: got some great content about sunscreen and studies and how
[1:03:06] Speaker 3: to read that stuff. There's also some great stuff out
[1:03:09] Speaker 3: of Veritasium and a couple other places where you can
[1:03:12] Speaker 3: actually watch UV cameras. looking at a human while sunscreen
[1:03:17] Speaker 3: is being applied. And it's super fascinating to watch those
[1:03:21] Speaker 3: higher SPF levels, just what it's actually absorbing when it
[1:03:27] Speaker 3: comes to the light. Check that stuff out for sure. And,
[1:03:29] Speaker 3: you know, subscribe to Conspiracy Stuff if you get a chance.
[1:03:33] Speaker 3: If you don't want to do that stuff, hey, you
[1:03:35] Speaker 3: can give us a call.
[1:03:36] Speaker 1: That's right.
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: You can call 1-833-STDWYTK, leave a message at the sound
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: of Ben's voice or Uh, three minutes is the time
[1:03:44] Speaker 2: allotted for each message. Please try to stick within that
[1:03:47] Speaker 2: three minutes if you can. Uh, if you want to
[1:03:50] Speaker 2: give us a shout, uh, personally or, or ask a
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: question or something like that, or, you know, tell us a,
[1:03:55] Speaker 2: maybe a longer story, go ahead and do that via email. Um,
[1:03:58] Speaker 2: and we hopefully, uh, if you are into it and
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: you give us permission, we will use your audio message
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: on one of our weekly listener mail episodes.
[1:04:06] Speaker 1: And if none of that quite greases you up, there
[1:04:09] Speaker 1: is one way you can always contact us, uh, Oh,
[1:04:13] Speaker 1: greases up isn't our best one. But Matt, I'm just
[1:04:16] Speaker 1: thinking of you as a kid being pulled away from
[1:04:19] Speaker 1: the shore. If none of that.
[1:04:22] Speaker 3: I was wearing a shirt, okay? He was hard to grab, though.
[1:04:25] Speaker 2: He was so hard to pull away because he's so slippery.
[1:04:28] Speaker 2: He just slides right out of your hand like a
[1:04:30] Speaker 2: bar of soap.
[1:04:32] Speaker 1: So if none of that quite slips and slides for
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: you as a way to contact us, there is one...
[1:04:38] Speaker 1: way that we always recommend no matter where you are,
[1:04:41] Speaker 1: no matter which beach or surf store you prefer. You
[1:04:44] Speaker 1: can send us a good old-fashioned email where we are.
[1:04:47] Speaker 3: Conspiracy at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff They Don't Want You To Know
[1:05:10] Speaker 3: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
[1:05:14] Speaker 3: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
[1:05:17] Speaker 3: to your favorite shows.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.