# At The Money: Tax Day Special

An episode of [Masters in Business](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/730188152), 15 Apr 2026, 17 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4e4cd910-40a1-4619-a5f3-ae2b0012ffff/4a59286f-eae1-4b1e-a8e1-b42d011eae91/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=5873a3cb-298f-40bc-b71f-ae2b0013000d

On this special, fan favorite episode of 'At The Money', Barry speaks with Bill Artzerounian, Director of Tax Services at Ritholtz Wealth Management, about the very specific steps investors should take to better manage their taxes. Each week, “At the Money” discusses an important topic in money management. From portfolio construction to taxes and cutting down on fees, join Barry Ritholtz to learn the best ways to put your money to work. (Originally recorded in late 2025.) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
[0:09] Speaker 2: They're billing mobs. What our schools unfolded? Tell me what
[0:14] Speaker 2: in the help of pay taxes for well, the one
[0:19] Speaker 2: a little stop paying, stop at stop paying taxes, stop paying.
[0:30] Speaker 3: It's that time of year. I'm Barry Riddults and on
[0:33] Speaker 3: today's edition of At the Money, we're going to discuss
[0:36] Speaker 3: the moves investors should be thinking about in order to
[0:41] Speaker 3: reduce their twenty twenty five taxes. To help us unpack
[0:45] Speaker 3: all of this and what it means for your money,
[0:47] Speaker 3: let's bring in Bill Artzmeronian Full disclosure. Arts Eronian is
[0:52] Speaker 3: the director of tax services at Ritults Wealth Management and
[0:57] Speaker 3: we've been working with him for just about five years years.
[1:00] Speaker 3: So Bill, let's start with a simple overview. You've said
[1:05] Speaker 3: before tax advice is financial advice. I want to unpack that.
[1:11] Speaker 3: How should investors be thinking about the role of tax
[1:15] Speaker 3: planning in their overall weal strategy, especially here in December.
[1:21] Speaker 1: Well, thanks Barry for having me. Let's just think about
[1:24] Speaker 1: a financial plan for a second. What part of a
[1:26] Speaker 1: financial plan does not touch on taxes? I mean think
[1:29] Speaker 1: about just basic cash flow planning. Taxes for our investors
[1:33] Speaker 1: are often the largest expense in their annual budget, it's
[1:37] Speaker 1: mortgage and taxes. Those are the largest costs. Life insurance
[1:40] Speaker 1: is thinking about a tax free inheritance for the next
[1:42] Speaker 1: generation or for your errors. Estate planning is all about taxes.
[1:46] Speaker 1: If there was no estate tax, we wouldn't really have
[1:47] Speaker 1: to think about estate planning. And then basic portfolio management
[1:52] Speaker 1: is purely, you know, not purely tax centric. But our
[1:56] Speaker 1: investors are thinking about tax all the time. Our clients
[1:58] Speaker 1: would rather save one thousand dollars on taxes that make
[2:00] Speaker 1: six figures in a trading day. So it's all connected.
[2:04] Speaker 1: And the end of the year is like the report card.
[2:07] Speaker 1: Tax planning should be happening proactively for twelve months, but
[2:11] Speaker 1: we don't even stop there. We're not thinking about taxes
[2:13] Speaker 1: as a current year item or even a lifetime item.
[2:15] Speaker 1: We're thinking about this generationally. We're thinking about how can
[2:18] Speaker 1: we set up the next generation of client children, client
[2:21] Speaker 1: grandchildren for tax success.
[2:24] Speaker 3: So we have a few weeks left in the year.
[2:27] Speaker 3: What are the big boxes that you think investors should
[2:29] Speaker 3: be checking and what important items do they ignore? What
[2:33] Speaker 3: are the big mistakes people make?
[2:35] Speaker 1: I think one of the misunderstandings is on tax deferral
[2:38] Speaker 1: rather than tax avoidance. Many strategies can avoid taxes or
[2:43] Speaker 1: can defer taxes, but that bill will come do at
[2:46] Speaker 1: some point. You know, think about even just a four
[2:48] Speaker 1: to oh one k a pre tax contribution, You're going
[2:50] Speaker 1: to recognize that income at some point. Things like accelerated
[2:53] Speaker 1: depreciation will come back to bite you on the recapture
[2:56] Speaker 1: when you sell the asset. Opportunity zones are a tax
[2:59] Speaker 1: deferral mechanism. These are all very useful because time value
[3:03] Speaker 1: of money says that a tax deduction today is worth
[3:06] Speaker 1: more than a tax deduction in the future, but eventually
[3:10] Speaker 1: that there's going to be a tax hit. So I
[3:11] Speaker 1: think that's a common misunderstanding. A few other mistakes is
[3:15] Speaker 1: on capital gain timing. See we see clients not really
[3:19] Speaker 1: understand or consider the timing of when they recognize games.
[3:22] Speaker 1: When we onboard, folks were often pushing gains from the
[3:27] Speaker 1: fourth quarter of say twenty twenty five into the first
[3:30] Speaker 1: quarter of twenty twenty six, because that gives us a
[3:32] Speaker 1: full twelve months to tax lost havist and create losses
[3:35] Speaker 1: to offset any capital gains. The flip side of that,
[3:38] Speaker 1: of course, is even a small movement in a stock
[3:42] Speaker 1: price can cost more than a tax built just to
[3:44] Speaker 1: sell it, so you have to be pretty comfortable holding
[3:47] Speaker 1: the position for a couple weeks or even a couple months.
[3:50] Speaker 1: And then the last mistake is misunderstanding just basic payment obligations.
[3:56] Speaker 1: There are safe harbors to avoid estimated tax penalties, but
[4:01] Speaker 1: on the flip side of that is, if you pay
[4:03] Speaker 1: too much, there's opportunity costs. If you have a big
[4:06] Speaker 1: refund in April, that means you paid a little bit
[4:08] Speaker 1: too much and that money could have been better put
[4:09] Speaker 1: to use.
[4:10] Speaker 3: So Bloomberg has a fairly sophisticated audience of high earning professionals.
[4:16] Speaker 3: What are the three top moves you see for folks
[4:19] Speaker 3: like that, they have a portfolio, they have a pretty
[4:22] Speaker 3: decent income, and they can expect to continue that for
[4:26] Speaker 3: the foreseeable future.
[4:29] Speaker 1: Let's start with charitable giving. We'll talk about it more
[4:32] Speaker 1: throughout the show, but it's often the most accessible lever
[4:35] Speaker 1: to pull for tax savings. The caveat being you need
[4:39] Speaker 1: to be conscious of where your total deductions fall. We
[4:42] Speaker 1: see some clients give a certain amount of charitable gifts
[4:45] Speaker 1: and they don't even itemize their deductions. So from a
[4:47] Speaker 1: federal tax standpoint, maybe they gave away ten k, but
[4:50] Speaker 1: they're still taking that standard deduction. They're not benefiting from
[4:53] Speaker 1: that charitable gift. So that's where bunching strategies and some
[4:56] Speaker 1: other strategies with don't advice funds can come into play.
[5:00] Speaker 1: Number two is on the equity comp side. Equity compensation
[5:04] Speaker 1: for folks compensated through their company stock, the timing of
[5:08] Speaker 1: the income can often be flexible. Think about stock options
[5:11] Speaker 1: company stock options, we should be asking the question, how
[5:14] Speaker 1: much can we recognize in stock option income before the
[5:18] Speaker 1: end of the year before we bump up against the
[5:19] Speaker 1: next federal or state tax bracket. How much if these
[5:23] Speaker 1: are incentive stock options, how much can we recognize without
[5:26] Speaker 1: paying AMT alternative minimum tax. These are questions we should
[5:29] Speaker 1: all be asking if we're paid through equity or if
[5:32] Speaker 1: we have clients that are paid through equity. And the
[5:34] Speaker 1: last one is for small business owners. There's a whole
[5:37] Speaker 1: lot on the small business side of this. I'm focused
[5:40] Speaker 1: a lot on qualified business income, which is a twenty
[5:43] Speaker 1: percent deduction for pass through income, but there are limitations,
[5:48] Speaker 1: and those limitations can be on based on how much
[5:51] Speaker 1: you pay your employees or yourself in a wage If
[5:54] Speaker 1: you don't meet a certain wage number, that QBI benefit
[5:57] Speaker 1: could be significantly reduced or even reduced down to zero
[5:59] Speaker 1: if you're really screwing this up. And then on the
[6:03] Speaker 1: small business side, we should be looking at are we
[6:05] Speaker 1: prepared to maximize retirement contributions? The max four one K
[6:09] Speaker 1: is seventy thousand dollars this year between employer and employee contributions,
[6:14] Speaker 1: and so you have to be ready to have that
[6:15] Speaker 1: cash available to fund those contributions. Say you're a mom
[6:18] Speaker 1: and pop shop to owners zero employees, maybe you're structured
[6:22] Speaker 1: as an es corp. You're gonna have to come up
[6:24] Speaker 1: with some cash to meet the four to one K
[6:26] Speaker 1: obligations either before the end of the year before the
[6:28] Speaker 1: tax filing.
[6:29] Speaker 3: So I'm glad you brought up tax advantage accounts like
[6:32] Speaker 3: four O one k's. There always seems to be a
[6:35] Speaker 3: last minute frenzy to maximize not only for A one k's,
[6:39] Speaker 3: but IRA's health saving accounts. Five twenty nine. How have
[6:43] Speaker 3: the rules changed around credits and ceilings for this year
[6:47] Speaker 3: and for twenty twenty six?
[6:50] Speaker 1: Right at least once a year with our clients, we're
[6:53] Speaker 1: running through the quote unquote basics of all of these contributions.
[6:57] Speaker 1: Are you on track to hit each of these with
[6:59] Speaker 1: a four one K? We just talked about it a
[7:00] Speaker 1: little bit, but there's a seventy K limit. Now, if
[7:03] Speaker 1: you're a W two employee and you don't own the company,
[7:06] Speaker 1: you're gonna make employee contributions. Maybe there's a megabackdoor Wroth
[7:10] Speaker 1: option in there for you. We talk to folks all
[7:12] Speaker 1: the time who have this eligible or eligible in their plan,
[7:15] Speaker 1: but they don't even know about it. Nobody's talking to
[7:17] Speaker 1: them about this when they join the company, and that
[7:19] Speaker 1: megabackdoor Wroth allows you to put after tax dollars into
[7:22] Speaker 1: the four oh one K, convert it to WROTH, and
[7:25] Speaker 1: have a nice Wroth tax free bucket growing alongside the
[7:28] Speaker 1: pre tax contributions that you already made. Iras don't come
[7:31] Speaker 1: up a lot in our world for a few reasons.
[7:34] Speaker 1: Number one is most of our clients are employed with
[7:38] Speaker 1: a retirement plan through their employer, and if that's the case,
[7:41] Speaker 1: deductible IRA contributions may be limited. However, there is a
[7:46] Speaker 1: backdoor option in the IRA. If you don't have any
[7:50] Speaker 1: pre tax money in any iras, you can make after
[7:53] Speaker 1: tax contributions and again convert to WROTH in the IRA
[7:56] Speaker 1: just as well as you can in the four oh
[7:57] Speaker 1: one K. And then the HSA. I love tax owners,
[8:00] Speaker 1: love hsas you need to be on a high deductible plan,
[8:04] Speaker 1: which isn't for everybody. My colleague Bill Sweet and I
[8:07] Speaker 1: we ran an analysis on high deductible plans and we
[8:10] Speaker 1: found that there's a pretty there's a pretty attractive break
[8:14] Speaker 1: even on high deductible plans because the premiums are lower
[8:17] Speaker 1: and the long term benefit of investing deducting HSA contributions
[8:21] Speaker 1: and treating those as another retirement vehicle. Again, those are
[8:24] Speaker 1: like roths where they're text free. Those can compound very,
[8:28] Speaker 1: very nicely. Where maybe you retire early, and let's say
[8:31] Speaker 1: you retire sixty instead of sixty five, you have a
[8:33] Speaker 1: five year gap where you need to cover probably significant
[8:36] Speaker 1: healthcare premiums. That HSA can be used in that case,
[8:39] Speaker 1: and it's a nice text free bucket to have.
[8:41] Speaker 3: And what do the ceilings look like on all these
[8:43] Speaker 3: taps advantage accounts for twenty twenty six? How has the
[8:47] Speaker 3: recent legislation changed the max people can kick into those?
[8:52] Speaker 1: The big change in twenty twenty six is that rough
[8:56] Speaker 1: catchup contributions for folks over age fifty are now forced
[8:59] Speaker 1: to be rough contributions again starting twenty twenty six. Historically,
[9:03] Speaker 1: catch up contributions, which are going to be seventy five
[9:05] Speaker 1: hundred this year seventy five hundred next year. Folks in
[9:08] Speaker 1: their fifties are often in their highest earning years. Therefore
[9:11] Speaker 1: the pre tax option is usually preferred. However, starting next year,
[9:16] Speaker 1: the catchup contributions that seventy five hundred are going to
[9:19] Speaker 1: be required to be wroth contributions. My theory is, I
[9:24] Speaker 1: don't mind this at all. Nobody ever regrets a roth contribution.
[9:27] Speaker 1: Nobody ever really regrets a roth conversion because once you
[9:30] Speaker 1: pay tax, you don't really think about it. And so
[9:33] Speaker 1: you know, if we have investors in their fifties and
[9:35] Speaker 1: sixties that are forced to make a small ROTH contribution
[9:37] Speaker 1: instead of a pre tax contribution, that just gives them
[9:41] Speaker 1: exceedingly more flexibility down the line, because now they're going
[9:44] Speaker 1: to have different buckets of money to pull from in retirement.
[9:47] Speaker 3: Sounds really interesting. You mentioned earlier tax loss harvesting. We've
[9:51] Speaker 3: been using canvas as our direct indexting product, but it
[9:56] Speaker 3: seems like this has become ubiquitous. What are your thoughts
[9:59] Speaker 3: on tax harvest thing. What does thoughtful harvest thing look like?
[10:05] Speaker 1: I think the trend thoughtful there implies to me that
[10:08] Speaker 1: there should be an ongoing activity, not just a year
[10:10] Speaker 1: end item. Historically, taxpayers sell DIY, investors and even advisors,
[10:17] Speaker 1: they'd look at the portfolio in December. They'd say, Okay,
[10:19] Speaker 1: what's underwater. Let's book those losses through direct indexing. This
[10:23] Speaker 1: is now an ongoing activity. But you don't need a
[10:25] Speaker 1: direct indexing portfolio to look at your portfolio. You can
[10:29] Speaker 1: even if you're not in a direct indexing setup. You
[10:31] Speaker 1: can still tax lost harvest throughout the year. Why just December?
[10:35] Speaker 1: This should happen with regularity. There's nothing saying we can
[10:38] Speaker 1: only book losses in December. Now a lot of this
[10:41] Speaker 1: is dictated by individual stock market volatility. But with an
[10:45] Speaker 1: ultra diversified bucket of stocks, some will ultimately be losers,
[10:49] Speaker 1: so you sell those, you pick up tax losses, You
[10:52] Speaker 1: invest in a similar company, so you keep the fidelity
[10:54] Speaker 1: of the portfolio, and then you don't trigger wash sale rules.
[10:58] Speaker 1: The only caveat there is state by state stuff. New Jersey,
[11:03] Speaker 1: for example, does not allow tax loss carry forwards. So
[11:05] Speaker 1: we're doing in December, we're doing a bit of the
[11:08] Speaker 1: opposite with our New Jersey clients. We're actually we're looking
[11:11] Speaker 1: historically over the first eleven months, what did we realize
[11:14] Speaker 1: in losses. Let's go make a game's harvest. Instead of
[11:17] Speaker 1: realizing more losses, We're going to realize capital gains so
[11:19] Speaker 1: we can use them at the state level this year.
[11:22] Speaker 3: That's really interesting. So I know the deductions have changed,
[11:26] Speaker 3: the standard deductions have become permanent. There are new floors,
[11:30] Speaker 3: there are new ceilings for that for itemized and charitable gifts,
[11:35] Speaker 3: how should those people who are charitably inclined think about
[11:39] Speaker 3: You mentioned bunching donations or donor advice funds. Give us
[11:43] Speaker 3: a little more detail about how people should be using
[11:45] Speaker 3: these vehicles.
[11:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, we're doing a lot of this with our clients
[11:49] Speaker 1: throughout the year, but specifically at the end of the year,
[11:51] Speaker 1: we kind of tee up charitable planning, like here, let's
[11:54] Speaker 1: think about what we want to accomplish, and then let's
[11:56] Speaker 1: take a look at the end of the year and
[11:57] Speaker 1: figure out how we're going to get this done and
[11:58] Speaker 1: if it's the right year to do it, what we
[12:00] Speaker 1: need to be conscious of is all the other deductions. Right,
[12:03] Speaker 1: Like I mentioned previously, you might have a hurdle rate
[12:06] Speaker 1: before you even start to deduct your charitable gifts. And
[12:09] Speaker 1: that's where you might want to consider bunching maybe three years,
[12:13] Speaker 1: maybe five years, maybe ten years worth of charitable gifts
[12:16] Speaker 1: into twenty twenty five. For example, twenty twenty five. Maybe
[12:19] Speaker 1: it's a high income year. Maybe you're paying down your mortgage,
[12:23] Speaker 1: so you're not getting that mortgage deduction anymore, and you
[12:25] Speaker 1: want to take advantage of an appreciated security that you
[12:29] Speaker 1: gift for charitable purposes. We do a lot of this.
[12:32] Speaker 1: We take maybe a client comes to us, they've worked
[12:35] Speaker 1: at a tech company. The tech company, they've been compensated
[12:38] Speaker 1: well in that stock, they have charitable intent. We say, okay,
[12:42] Speaker 1: let's use that stock. Let's send it to a donor
[12:44] Speaker 1: advised fund. Let's bunch five years worth of gifting, and
[12:47] Speaker 1: now you have your own little charitable fund that you
[12:49] Speaker 1: can make grants out of over the next five years.
[12:52] Speaker 1: So we're going to time the deduction, but we're not
[12:54] Speaker 1: actually going to change the way you're giving.
[12:57] Speaker 3: Really interesting, so I'm in New York, you're in Philly.
[13:01] Speaker 3: These are big salt regions. I know the most recent
[13:06] Speaker 3: big beautiful bill changed all sorts of things. Where are
[13:11] Speaker 3: this is a question I hear all the time. Where
[13:13] Speaker 3: are we with salt deductions today? How has this changed?
[13:17] Speaker 3: I know we're not quite back the way we were,
[13:19] Speaker 3: but it seems to have improved for a lot of people.
[13:22] Speaker 3: Tell us what's going on with the state and local
[13:25] Speaker 3: tax deductions.
[13:26] Speaker 1: Well, it's good news for most folks. For some folks,
[13:29] Speaker 1: it's not going to change the damn thing. It's gonna
[13:32] Speaker 1: What we have here is the for Since twenty seventeen,
[13:36] Speaker 1: the state and local tax deduction as part of your
[13:38] Speaker 1: total itemized deductions was limited to ten thousand dollars for
[13:42] Speaker 1: folks bury in New York, California, New Jersey, Connecticut, Pennsylvania.
[13:47] Speaker 1: Ten thousand dollars just wasn't cutting it a lot of
[13:49] Speaker 1: You know, we see tax returns here every day where
[13:51] Speaker 1: there are sometimes six figures of state and local taxes
[13:55] Speaker 1: between real estate and income taxes. The new limit is
[13:58] Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars. That was maybe the most talked about
[14:02] Speaker 1: provision of Trump two point zero tax bill. It's an
[14:06] Speaker 1: increase from ten k to forty k with caveats. If
[14:09] Speaker 1: you're earning more than five hundred thousand dollars of total income,
[14:13] Speaker 1: you start to get phased out. These are for both
[14:16] Speaker 1: single filers and married filers. Once you had six hundred thousand,
[14:19] Speaker 1: you're all the way back to ten k. So we
[14:21] Speaker 1: have some clients that are not going to see a
[14:23] Speaker 1: change at all. They make a million dollars a year,
[14:25] Speaker 1: they're not going to benefit from this whatsoever. We see
[14:27] Speaker 1: other clients where we're having tactical discussions on all kinds
[14:32] Speaker 1: of income. Maybe we defer a capital gain into next
[14:34] Speaker 1: year because we want to take full advantage of that
[14:36] Speaker 1: salt deduction this year, or maybe vice versa. But there's
[14:39] Speaker 1: a lot more planning to do on all of these deductions.
[14:42] Speaker 1: We talked about charitable This is along the same lines.
[14:45] Speaker 3: What else from the Big Beautiful Bill has changed the
[14:48] Speaker 3: way you think about year end planning. Do any of
[14:51] Speaker 3: these provisions show up as actual savings for clients?
[14:56] Speaker 1: I think it's back to the charitable piece. There are
[14:58] Speaker 1: some changes next year that are going to impact charitable giving,
[15:01] Speaker 1: which make twenty twenty five perhaps more attractive from a
[15:05] Speaker 1: charitable landscape. Next year, there's going to be a quote
[15:08] Speaker 1: unquote a floor on charitable gifts where the first zero
[15:11] Speaker 1: point five percent of your agi will not be deductible
[15:14] Speaker 1: for charitable purposes. So if you make a million bucks,
[15:16] Speaker 1: the first five k you give away to charity provides
[15:19] Speaker 1: zero federal tax benefit. The other change for the highest
[15:23] Speaker 1: earning folks, folks in the thirty seven percent bracket, they
[15:26] Speaker 1: are going to be limited on their overall deductions. They'll
[15:29] Speaker 1: be treated as thirty five percent taxpayers. So that two
[15:31] Speaker 1: percent delta can can really add up when we're talking
[15:34] Speaker 1: about when we're talking about big deductions. So we're doing
[15:36] Speaker 1: a lot of shifting of charitable salt deductions, even mortgage
[15:41] Speaker 1: even mortgage deductions. We're trying to get most of that
[15:44] Speaker 1: into twenty twenty five, especially for our highest income tax
[15:47] Speaker 1: paying clients.
[15:48] Speaker 3: So to wrap up, there's still plenty of time before
[15:50] Speaker 3: the year ends. There are lots of moves individual investors
[15:54] Speaker 3: can make to not only reduce the taxes they're going
[15:58] Speaker 3: to owe for the twenty twenty five year, but also
[16:01] Speaker 3: to think about long term planning their estate, maximizing every opportunity.
[16:07] Speaker 3: The government gives us lots of ways to either reduce
[16:12] Speaker 3: or defer our contacts Bill. Everybody should take full advantage
[16:17] Speaker 3: of what's on offer. I'm Barry Ridolts. You're listening to
[16:21] Speaker 3: Bloomberg's at the Money.
[16:24] Speaker 2: Stop paying, all right,

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