# At The Money: The Finances of Divorce

An episode of [Masters in Business](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/730188152), 4 Feb 2026, 16 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4e4cd910-40a1-4619-a5f3-ae2b0012ffff/738dcf8f-ea96-46e0-92b6-b3e700ff8f0b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=5873a3cb-298f-40bc-b71f-ae2b0013000d

Divorce is an expensive, confusing, and stressful experience. Dividing up family assets, including not just the family home, but portfolios, real estate, trusts, and other businesses. There are big mistakes to avoid. Patrick Kilbane is General Counsel of the RIA Ullman Wealth Partners, where he leads the Divorce Advisory Group. In addition to his years as a divorce attorney, he is also a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CFDA) and Wealth Advisor at the firm. Each week, “At the Money” discusses an important topic in money management. From portfolio construction to taxes and cutting down on fees, join Barry Ritholtz to learn the best ways to put your money to work. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:06] Speaker 1: I'm is there any life event that's more expensive, confusing,
[0:20] Speaker 1: and stressful than a divorce. You're not only dividing your family,
[0:25] Speaker 1: You're also figuring out the disposition of a lot of assets, portfolios,
[0:30] Speaker 1: real estate, trusts, businesses more. I'm Barry Ritolts, and on
[0:35] Speaker 1: today's edition of At the Money, we're gonna discuss the
[0:39] Speaker 1: finances of divorce and full disclosure. I am and remain
[0:44] Speaker 1: happily married for thirty two years. To help us unpack
[0:48] Speaker 1: all of this and what it means for your portfolio,
[0:51] Speaker 1: let's bring in Patrick Kilbain of the ria Omen Wealth
[0:55] Speaker 1: Partners and also leads the Divorce Advisory Group. So so Patrick,
[1:01] Speaker 1: let's start with the basics. You focus on people going
[1:05] Speaker 1: through divorce. What's the first financial triage you do. When
[1:10] Speaker 1: a new client calls.
[1:12] Speaker 2: Barry, great to be with you, thank you for having me.
[1:14] Speaker 2: When somebody gets hit with this bomb, when this bomb
[1:17] Speaker 2: is dropped on them. You know, I'm a big fan
[1:20] Speaker 2: of coach Lou Holtz and he has an acronym WIN.
[1:23] Speaker 2: It stands for what's important now. So I generally talk
[1:27] Speaker 2: to the person who this might be their first exposure
[1:30] Speaker 2: with the legal system, and I figure out what their
[1:33] Speaker 2: goal is it has their estranged spouse cut them off
[1:37] Speaker 2: from the cash flow from the assets? Is this a
[1:40] Speaker 2: child custody situation? You know, what is the first thing
[1:44] Speaker 2: that we need to handle? And then it's sort of
[1:47] Speaker 2: giving them the confidence and the reassurance that hey, you're
[1:50] Speaker 2: not the first nor the last who's going to go
[1:51] Speaker 2: through this, and I'm going to be your shirpa through
[1:54] Speaker 2: this process.
[1:55] Speaker 1: So I imagine there are some consistent, large money mistae
[2:00] Speaker 1: people make in the first thirty to sixty days of
[2:03] Speaker 1: a separation. Obviously it's very emotional, and you know, most
[2:08] Speaker 1: people don't go through these sort of things repeatedly. What
[2:11] Speaker 1: sort of mistakes do you see before the lawyers and
[2:14] Speaker 1: the written agreements start showing up?
[2:18] Speaker 2: Like most people who have a long history together, they
[2:21] Speaker 2: have solved a lot of problems together. And I see
[2:25] Speaker 2: people trying to work the divorce settlement out among themselves
[2:30] Speaker 2: and the spouse that may not have all of the data,
[2:34] Speaker 2: all of the information, may not know the extent of
[2:36] Speaker 2: their holdings, may make some agreements before they have any
[2:40] Speaker 2: idea what their rights are. So, like you Berry, I'm
[2:44] Speaker 2: a lawyer, although I'm not practicing anymore, I litigated high
[2:47] Speaker 2: networth divorce cases for ten years, and what I try
[2:50] Speaker 2: to do is not give legal advice, but say, hey,
[2:53] Speaker 2: let's slow down a little bit and let's make sure
[2:56] Speaker 2: that you have a full understanding of what you're agreeing
[2:59] Speaker 2: to or waving before you do it.
[3:02] Speaker 1: So I think about all the assets that are involved
[3:06] Speaker 1: in a family dissolution. There's cash, there's retirement accounts, there's property,
[3:12] Speaker 1: there's business interests. How do you help clients understand the
[3:16] Speaker 1: value of what they're negotiating, either cash up front versus
[3:21] Speaker 1: a longer term set of assets.
[3:24] Speaker 2: Great question. So I try to divide everything into different buckets.
[3:28] Speaker 2: So I make sure that my clients aren't comparing apples
[3:31] Speaker 2: to giraffes. They've got to be comparing apples to apples.
[3:35] Speaker 2: And depending on where the spouses are situated and where
[3:39] Speaker 2: each one of them wants to go, we know that
[3:41] Speaker 2: all assets aren't created equal, so there may be an
[3:45] Speaker 2: opportunity working together to reach a divorce settlement that'll be
[3:50] Speaker 2: more advantageous for both spouses than what they would end
[3:54] Speaker 2: up in a court if the court just took a
[3:55] Speaker 2: meat cleaver and busted everything in half.
[3:59] Speaker 1: So you you have a background as a a matrimonial lawyer.
[4:03] Speaker 1: How does that change the way you sit down as
[4:06] Speaker 1: a financial advisor when you're having these conversations with clients
[4:11] Speaker 1: who are just starting the divorce process.
[4:14] Speaker 2: Excellent question. I have a perspective from litigating these cases
[4:19] Speaker 2: for ten years and seeing people at the very beginning
[4:23] Speaker 2: of the process, and I think a financial planner, a
[4:27] Speaker 2: wealth manager, an asset manager who may not have that
[4:31] Speaker 2: same experience, may want to get right into the details.
[4:36] Speaker 2: You mentioned the word triage earlier in this conversation. I
[4:39] Speaker 2: mean this client, this family is coming to you. I
[4:42] Speaker 2: mean they are experiencing trauma. The wound may be fresh.
[4:46] Speaker 2: So I think we really have to slow down. And
[4:49] Speaker 2: it's sort of like, you know what, when you see it,
[4:51] Speaker 2: you're ready to delve into the financial planning and start
[4:55] Speaker 2: talking about Barry two point zero, when Barry is ready
[4:59] Speaker 2: to start thinking about Buried two point zero. But a
[5:02] Speaker 2: lot of these people come in and they're at a
[5:04] Speaker 2: total fog. They're trying to figure out where their next
[5:07] Speaker 2: dollar is going to come from, how is cash flow
[5:09] Speaker 2: going to even let's back up, where am I going
[5:12] Speaker 2: to live? So we have to sort of satisfy that
[5:16] Speaker 2: bottom level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs before we can
[5:20] Speaker 2: even get into that financial planning conversation.
[5:23] Speaker 1: So the past few divorces I've witnessed from relatively close,
[5:29] Speaker 1: the big question becomes who gets the house? It always
[5:32] Speaker 1: seems to be one of those things. It's an emotional decision,
[5:35] Speaker 1: it's a financial decision. Is there a better framework for
[5:39] Speaker 1: addressing that? How do you avoid that from becoming so toxic?
[5:43] Speaker 1: So were the roses sort of disaster?
[5:47] Speaker 2: I think you have to really start and understand why
[5:50] Speaker 2: somebody wants the house. You made a great point. Is
[5:53] Speaker 2: this an emotional decision? Is this a financial decision? Do
[5:57] Speaker 2: I have comfort in my neighbors? Is the house house
[6:00] Speaker 2: in a public school district where I want my children
[6:04] Speaker 2: or child to continue to go to school until they
[6:07] Speaker 2: reach the age of eighteen? And then once you really
[6:11] Speaker 2: have a good idea why that's the case? And Barry,
[6:14] Speaker 2: maybe that spouse wants the house just because they know
[6:17] Speaker 2: the other spouse wants the house. So we have to
[6:21] Speaker 2: sort of take a step back and understand the true motivations.
[6:24] Speaker 2: And then we start talking about the financial problems and
[6:27] Speaker 2: the tax problems that come. Well, a married couple of
[6:30] Speaker 2: this has been your primary residence for two of the
[6:32] Speaker 2: last five years. You can exclude up to half a
[6:35] Speaker 2: million dollars of a capital gain if there is one.
[6:38] Speaker 2: Of course, if you're single, then you can only exclude
[6:41] Speaker 2: up to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars of the game.
[6:43] Speaker 2: What's the basis? Do we have a state tax situation?
[6:47] Speaker 2: So there are a lot of different layers, and I
[6:50] Speaker 2: again back to my previous comment, I don't think we
[6:52] Speaker 2: can even hit on that until we have a true
[6:55] Speaker 2: understanding of what the client's motivation is and when they're
[6:58] Speaker 2: emotionally prepared to have that financial discussion.
[7:02] Speaker 1: You mentioned taxes. It's easy to imagine how taxes can
[7:06] Speaker 1: just flip the math what are the big tax traps
[7:09] Speaker 1: and divorce settlements to avoid?
[7:12] Speaker 2: All of these assets are different. They may be tax
[7:15] Speaker 2: at ordinary income rates, capital gains rates. To your listeners
[7:19] Speaker 2: a very sophisticated audience, But some of our clients who
[7:24] Speaker 2: are going through this process are also very sophisticated, but
[7:27] Speaker 2: that hasn't been their role in the household. So a
[7:30] Speaker 2: lot of it is re educating them and understanding or
[7:34] Speaker 2: trying to have an idea what is their tax situation?
[7:36] Speaker 2: Going to be post filing. They may be in a
[7:39] Speaker 2: totally different tax filing status. They may be going back
[7:42] Speaker 2: to work, they may not be going to work. They
[7:45] Speaker 2: may have investment income imputed to them. They may have
[7:48] Speaker 2: to use IRS rule seventy two to t if they're
[7:52] Speaker 2: before fifty nine and a half to be able to
[7:54] Speaker 2: tap into retirement accounts because of imputed investment income. Of course,
[7:59] Speaker 2: those laws vary by state, but that's why it's so
[8:03] Speaker 2: helpful to have somebody who really knows that perspective and
[8:08] Speaker 2: can work with the various tax and estate planning professionals
[8:12] Speaker 2: to be thinking about these issues.
[8:14] Speaker 1: What about retirement assets? What do people need to know
[8:17] Speaker 1: about avoiding penalties or getting the bad allocation? There's a
[8:23] Speaker 1: whole other qdro thing that I'm wholly unfamiliar with. What
[8:27] Speaker 1: are the issues in divorced with four to one k's
[8:30] Speaker 1: four h three bs iras any joint or individual retirement asset?
[8:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, such a magnificent question. You and I talked about
[8:39] Speaker 2: quadros preparing for this conversation. QUADRO is an acronym that
[8:45] Speaker 2: stands for qualified domestic relations order. It is a subsequent
[8:49] Speaker 2: court order that is used to segregate a retirement plan
[8:55] Speaker 2: that's subject to ARISA. ARISA stands for the Employee Retirement
[8:59] Speaker 2: in Security Act. But if your spouse is a participate
[9:05] Speaker 2: in a government plan, a government plan may not accept
[9:08] Speaker 2: a quadro. Then how in the heck do we divide
[9:11] Speaker 2: that marital asset? So again, I think it always requires
[9:15] Speaker 2: us to take a step back and get a hold
[9:18] Speaker 2: of a document called a summary plan description, which sets
[9:23] Speaker 2: out the rules and regulations of each retirement account. Barry.
[9:27] Speaker 2: We've heard people say all the time the only way
[9:29] Speaker 2: to eat an elephant is one bite at a time.
[9:32] Speaker 2: And whether it's a retirement account or some other asset,
[9:36] Speaker 2: we have to be very intentional and very careful and
[9:39] Speaker 2: go with each asset. What is it? Is it a
[9:43] Speaker 2: qualified or a non qualified account? How do we divide it?
[9:46] Speaker 2: What are the tax consequences? And I know you and
[9:50] Speaker 2: I are going to talk about other contingent assets down
[9:54] Speaker 2: the road, like carry and restricted stock and so on
[9:57] Speaker 2: and so forth, But what's the best way to actually
[10:00] Speaker 2: accomplish this on each asset? And then you know, maybe
[10:04] Speaker 2: with asset with that asset we say, wait a minute,
[10:07] Speaker 2: I don't want to have to deal with my estranged
[10:10] Speaker 2: spouse in the future to get my fair share. Isn't
[10:12] Speaker 2: there a way that I can, you know, barter this
[10:15] Speaker 2: away and get something else that works better for me.
[10:18] Speaker 2: So those are all the discussions that are asset by
[10:21] Speaker 2: asset level.
[10:23] Speaker 1: That's complicated. Let's talk about something even more complicated. What
[10:27] Speaker 1: do you do with I liquid assets private businesses that
[10:31] Speaker 1: are not Hey, it's easy to split a portfolio of
[10:33] Speaker 1: publicly traded stock. What do you do about a company
[10:37] Speaker 1: that is private and one of the spouses is running
[10:40] Speaker 1: and how do you put how do you know figure
[10:43] Speaker 1: out what it's worth and who gets what?
[10:46] Speaker 2: You and I can look at our brokerage account statement
[10:49] Speaker 2: or a retirement account statement and have a pretty good
[10:52] Speaker 2: idea what that asset is worth. With an asset that
[10:55] Speaker 2: we know that has value but we're not sure what
[10:58] Speaker 2: that value is required to hire another professional called the
[11:02] Speaker 2: business appraiser or a valuation expert. And the crazy thing
[11:06] Speaker 2: about the divorce world, Barry, is it imposes these fantasy
[11:11] Speaker 2: rules and regulations that you and I would never have
[11:15] Speaker 2: to discuss with a married couple. We talk about enterprise
[11:19] Speaker 2: goodwill and personal goodwill when we come to the value
[11:22] Speaker 2: of a business. So your firm a valuation expert can say, okay,
[11:27] Speaker 2: this firm is worth x you know, million dollars. But
[11:31] Speaker 2: in a divorce context, especially my home state of Florida,
[11:35] Speaker 2: we have to look at what's the value of Barry's
[11:38] Speaker 2: firm without Barry, and the value of Barry's firm without Barry.
[11:44] Speaker 2: That's the marital asset in Florida, that's what we have
[11:47] Speaker 2: to divide. So a year prior, somebody may have offered
[11:50] Speaker 2: to buy the family business for fifteen million dollars. But
[11:54] Speaker 2: if you take Barry out of that family business and
[11:56] Speaker 2: the value of the office buildings and the furniture and
[11:59] Speaker 2: sell and so is a million, then the marital share
[12:02] Speaker 2: is five hundred grand And you have a spouse thinking,
[12:04] Speaker 2: wait a minute, I'm going to end up with seven
[12:06] Speaker 2: and a half million dollars of this asset, but really
[12:09] Speaker 2: in maybe half a million dollars, or you know, you
[12:11] Speaker 2: can pick any other example. So you need that expert,
[12:14] Speaker 2: and then you need to understand how the state dissolution
[12:18] Speaker 2: of marriage laws apply to valuing that asset within the
[12:22] Speaker 2: context of a divorce.
[12:24] Speaker 1: Really really interesting. What do you tell clients about cash
[12:28] Speaker 1: flow planning right after the divorce? Suddenly whatever emergency fund credit,
[12:35] Speaker 1: even just a household budget. All that stuff gets thrown
[12:38] Speaker 1: out of the window. How do you rebuild that? How
[12:41] Speaker 1: do you face that first year of spending reality.
[12:45] Speaker 2: In the context of the divorce negotiations. I try to
[12:48] Speaker 2: help my clients and lawyers think about asking for a
[12:52] Speaker 2: larger than normal emergency savings fund. We talk about, hey, look,
[12:58] Speaker 2: this is how much money you have to spend on
[13:00] Speaker 2: a monthly basis. But that first year where this now
[13:05] Speaker 2: single person is in charge of their monthly budget, there
[13:09] Speaker 2: may be some surprises, and there may be a learning
[13:12] Speaker 2: curve and so on and so forth. So I try
[13:14] Speaker 2: to really build up that experience, and maybe even if
[13:18] Speaker 2: it's not an alimony case, maybe it might be helpful
[13:21] Speaker 2: to get the case settled if there can be alimony
[13:25] Speaker 2: for a short period of time, to help with that
[13:28] Speaker 2: transition and ease somebody in to being responsible for probably
[13:33] Speaker 2: the first time in a long time, of managing their
[13:35] Speaker 2: own cash flow.
[13:37] Speaker 1: So final question, if you could give one piece of
[13:40] Speaker 1: advice to someone starting the divorce process, what's the best
[13:45] Speaker 1: decision or even document then improves the outcome for everybody.
[13:51] Speaker 2: In my state, there's a document that's required to be
[13:54] Speaker 2: filed by each party in every case, and it's called
[13:57] Speaker 2: the financial affidavit. I see in New York I think
[14:00] Speaker 2: it's called a network statement or so on and so forth.
[14:03] Speaker 2: It is a daunting, overwhelming document, but really it's a
[14:07] Speaker 2: form that you're normally required to sign. You take an
[14:12] Speaker 2: oath and say that what you put on here is truthful.
[14:15] Speaker 2: But you outline all of your sources of income, all
[14:18] Speaker 2: of your expenses, all of your assets, and all of
[14:21] Speaker 2: your liabilities. So from a financial standpoint, if you could
[14:25] Speaker 2: take the time and make that as accurate as possible,
[14:29] Speaker 2: that's going to really go a long way to helping you,
[14:32] Speaker 2: your lawyer and the other financial professionals on your team
[14:36] Speaker 2: get a really precise idea of what we're dealing with.
[14:39] Speaker 2: So spend that time, take the time upfront, and you
[14:43] Speaker 2: may not have all the information that you need to
[14:45] Speaker 2: answer that question until you get the discovery from the
[14:48] Speaker 2: other side. And what I tell people all the time
[14:50] Speaker 2: is that's okay, disclose it and then put a footnote
[14:53] Speaker 2: that says, hey, I don't have this information, and when
[14:56] Speaker 2: I get it, I'll update it. And then when you
[14:59] Speaker 2: really break it down like that and let people know, hey,
[15:02] Speaker 2: you can amend this document. I see them start to
[15:05] Speaker 2: relax a little bit and say, okay, I got this.
[15:09] Speaker 1: So to wrap up, I'm going to quote Patrick, divorce
[15:13] Speaker 1: is really a financial or tax problem disguised in a
[15:18] Speaker 1: divorce costume, and that really sums it up. It's as
[15:22] Speaker 1: much about separating your personal lives as it is to
[15:26] Speaker 1: figuring out your financial and asset lives going forward. Take
[15:31] Speaker 1: it seriously, make sure you get good counsel and follow
[15:35] Speaker 1: the process that your lawyer and financial advisor walks you through.
[15:41] Speaker 1: I'm Barry Results. This has been Boomburgs at the Money

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.