# BNY's Jose Minaya on How AI Is Transforming Asset Management

An episode of [Masters in Business](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/730188152), 3 Oct 2025, 57 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4e4cd910-40a1-4619-a5f3-ae2b0012ffff/d5105ab2-0ffd-418e-b84b-b36b01120a39/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=5873a3cb-298f-40bc-b71f-ae2b0013000d

Barry speaks with Jose Minaya, global head of BNY Investments and Wealth. In this episode, Jose and Barry discuss his career buy-side trading, investing in the alternatives space. The also discuss the changes blockchain and AI are bringing to asset management. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Masters in
[0:11] Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.
[0:17] Speaker 2: On the latest Masters in Business podcast Wow. Jose Menaya
[0:21] Speaker 2: runs wealth management services at B and Y Bank in
[0:26] Speaker 2: New York. Incredible bank, incredible history. They're literally the first bank.
[0:32] Speaker 2: Bn Y is the first bank in America, the first
[0:34] Speaker 2: publicly listed stock on the New York Stock Exchange. Not
[0:39] Speaker 2: only do they have two point two trillion in assets,
[0:43] Speaker 2: but they touch about one out of every five dollars
[0:47] Speaker 2: in assets globally. They touch, you know, sixty seventy trillion
[0:51] Speaker 2: dollars worth of assets, whether it's through their clearing, their infrastructure,
[0:56] Speaker 2: their custodianship. They're just a massive bank, the oldest bank
[1:01] Speaker 2: in America, the first bank in America, formed by Alexander Hamilton.
[1:07] Speaker 2: Jose has a fascinating background and a fascinating career as
[1:10] Speaker 2: both a chief investment Officer and CEO. Few people are
[1:15] Speaker 2: better positioned to talk about not only what's happening in
[1:19] Speaker 2: the state of wealth management in the US and globally,
[1:24] Speaker 2: but what's coming next, What digital technology and tokenization means
[1:29] Speaker 2: for asset managers, as well as the impact of AI
[1:33] Speaker 2: on how we're all going to deal with our dollars.
[1:36] Speaker 2: I thought this conversation was absolutely fascinating, and I think
[1:40] Speaker 2: you will also with no further ado, my Master's in
[1:44] Speaker 2: Business interview of BN wise jose Manayah. So let's start
[1:49] Speaker 2: out talking about your background Bachelor's and finance from Manhattan College,
[1:55] Speaker 2: an MBA from Tuck Business School at Dartmouth. What was
[1:59] Speaker 2: the career plan?
[2:01] Speaker 3: You know, I my career plan was always a work
[2:04] Speaker 3: in progress. I always say I almost had like a
[2:06] Speaker 3: little bit of a Forest Gump approach to starting my career.
[2:10] Speaker 3: I first, I'm a first generation American, so you know,
[2:13] Speaker 3: I grew up in Washington Heights to a dominic in
[2:16] Speaker 3: a Dominican family, Dominican parents, So baseball was big my life.
[2:19] Speaker 3: And for a while there I thought I was going
[2:21] Speaker 3: to be a pro baseball player.
[2:22] Speaker 2: Would you play?
[2:23] Speaker 4: I was? I was a pitcher.
[2:25] Speaker 3: Uh huh, did pretty well, did pretty well up until
[2:28] Speaker 3: the point that I didn't and then.
[2:29] Speaker 2: High school of college, high school and college. I pitched
[2:32] Speaker 2: in high school. No curveball. That's the end of your
[2:35] Speaker 2: pitching career.
[2:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, I My whole thing is if I threw strikes.
[2:38] Speaker 4: I did pretty well. If I didn't, I was going
[2:41] Speaker 4: to get in trouble.
[2:41] Speaker 2: So you a little control issue? Is that the problem?
[2:43] Speaker 4: Yeah, a little control issues.
[2:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to throw both hard and accurately.
[2:48] Speaker 4: Yes it is, Yes, it is.
[2:49] Speaker 3: It's like like everything else, it's about trying to find
[2:51] Speaker 3: the balance.
[2:52] Speaker 4: Right.
[2:52] Speaker 2: So that's right. So you mentioned your first generation American.
[2:57] Speaker 2: How did that affect you? What? What does that do
[2:59] Speaker 2: to your world? You your work ethic, How does it
[3:02] Speaker 2: affect your outlook and career progress?
[3:07] Speaker 3: I think being a first gen and and just kind
[3:09] Speaker 3: of my you know, the neighborhood I grew up which
[3:11] Speaker 3: I often described to people. You know, if you've been
[3:14] Speaker 3: to Chinatown, well, Washington High School, and I grew up
[3:16] Speaker 3: there was the Dominican version of Chinatown. But look, I
[3:21] Speaker 3: mean I grew up around strong family values. I had
[3:24] Speaker 3: a great home life, very privileged that way, strong work.
[3:28] Speaker 4: Ethic coming in, but I but I did.
[3:30] Speaker 3: But I did grow up in a bubble, right, So
[3:32] Speaker 3: one end what I took with me when I exited
[3:35] Speaker 3: or left that bubble was work, work ethic, was kind
[3:39] Speaker 3: of really understanding relationships and that. But then when I
[3:45] Speaker 3: left that bubble, it was more defined by Okay, I
[3:48] Speaker 3: was in different audiences. I was in situations where then
[3:53] Speaker 3: more acclimating was kind of more my focus and my
[3:56] Speaker 3: goal for early early part of my career.
[4:00] Speaker 2: Really really interesting. You come out of talk, you end
[4:04] Speaker 2: up being an analyst. Tell us about the early days
[4:07] Speaker 2: post post grad school.
[4:10] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think post grad school, I was still trying
[4:12] Speaker 3: to figure out what I what I really wanted to do,
[4:15] Speaker 3: because you know, if I even go pre you know,
[4:17] Speaker 3: coming out of undergrad, you know, I had a finance degree,
[4:20] Speaker 3: I was good at math, and you know, I asked people,
[4:22] Speaker 3: what are you supposed to do with this? And people
[4:24] Speaker 3: mentioned Wall Street in firms like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs,
[4:27] Speaker 3: and I was fortunate enough to get a job at
[4:29] Speaker 3: JP Morgan. I went everyone was taking a gmat. I
[4:33] Speaker 3: had no idea what a gmat was, but I figured
[4:34] Speaker 3: I'm supposed to take it as well, and I went
[4:36] Speaker 3: to grad school. And then coming out of grad school,
[4:38] Speaker 3: I went back to Wall Street. I not necessarily thinking
[4:41] Speaker 3: that's what I wanted my career to be, but I
[4:44] Speaker 3: didn't really have a plan for anything else. I think
[4:47] Speaker 3: as I started really searching around what I wanted to do,
[4:49] Speaker 3: and instead of advising people, kind of doing things that
[4:53] Speaker 3: we're going to be there for the long term, build something,
[4:56] Speaker 3: you know. I found my way into the byside, right,
[4:58] Speaker 3: and that my first job kind of in investing, working
[5:01] Speaker 3: at AIG Global Investment group.
[5:03] Speaker 4: I think today it's called.
[5:04] Speaker 3: Pinebridge, but that was my first real investing job, and
[5:09] Speaker 3: even there finding my way. I started out inequities and
[5:12] Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, I like this, but I felt like,
[5:14] Speaker 3: you know, the other side, as I ran into people
[5:16] Speaker 3: on the bond side and private credit, I felt that
[5:20] Speaker 3: that was more kind of cash flow based versus I
[5:23] Speaker 3: used to get annoyed where my model. I felt like
[5:25] Speaker 3: my models were right, but the markets never cooperated with
[5:29] Speaker 3: so it didn't matter that I was right.
[5:30] Speaker 4: I felt more at home.
[5:32] Speaker 3: In that environment where it was more around, okay, how
[5:34] Speaker 3: how do I judge the downside? How do I kind
[5:36] Speaker 3: of really analyze cash flows? And then I found myself
[5:40] Speaker 3: on the by side and I found myself as a
[5:42] Speaker 3: private credit manager. I think from there, interesting enough, I said, hey, this,
[5:48] Speaker 3: I found my thing.
[5:49] Speaker 4: I love doing this.
[5:50] Speaker 3: And I always found myself in situations where I did
[5:54] Speaker 3: what I did really well and somebody always asked me
[5:56] Speaker 3: to do a little more. And in that little more,
[5:59] Speaker 3: it was always kind of like extending myself and say, okay,
[6:02] Speaker 3: am I still the smme? Or am I now gathering
[6:04] Speaker 3: and doing different things? And then ultimately, especially when I
[6:08] Speaker 3: was at TIA, it was this idea of like, oh,
[6:11] Speaker 3: you know, should we go into agriculture, should we go
[6:15] Speaker 3: into commodities? And I was like, well, here, I'm a
[6:18] Speaker 3: kid from New York City. I don't really know anything
[6:20] Speaker 3: about agriculture and commodities, but you know what, I kind
[6:24] Speaker 3: of dived in and said this is interesting. This was
[6:27] Speaker 3: the other thing that took me to another place in
[6:29] Speaker 3: my career that I'd say I took another people viewed
[6:33] Speaker 3: as a big risk because at that point, know, I
[6:35] Speaker 3: was managing about a fifteen billion dollar private credit portfolio.
[6:39] Speaker 3: Back then that was a that was a pretty major thing.
[6:42] Speaker 2: Like a lot of money.
[6:43] Speaker 4: I felt like a lot of money and it was
[6:45] Speaker 4: and is.
[6:47] Speaker 3: And I kind of made a decision from doing these
[6:49] Speaker 3: kind of nights and weekends on this project of going
[6:51] Speaker 3: into farmland, I made a decision to say, you know what,
[6:55] Speaker 3: I'm going to leave all this behind. I want to
[6:57] Speaker 3: go try to build this and even the CIO at
[7:00] Speaker 3: the time said, are you sure you want to do this?
[7:02] Speaker 4: Because you know, maybe I'll.
[7:04] Speaker 3: Tell you what, why don't you give this a run?
[7:07] Speaker 3: But you know what, we'll keep your job warm for you.
[7:09] Speaker 4: Here. I think he figured he'll come running back in
[7:12] Speaker 4: six months.
[7:12] Speaker 2: Give this a run, meaning the CIO position.
[7:15] Speaker 4: Meeting running a farmland fund.
[7:17] Speaker 2: Oh okay.
[7:18] Speaker 3: And you know, so I went out and said, oh,
[7:21] Speaker 3: I want to do this. We ended up becoming the
[7:23] Speaker 3: largest farmland fund institutional manager for farmland assets globally.
[7:30] Speaker 4: At the time.
[7:31] Speaker 3: And you know, one of the things that my philosophy
[7:34] Speaker 3: and doing these things is you know, taking the confidence
[7:36] Speaker 3: to always kind of try things that get me excited
[7:39] Speaker 3: and that I feel passionate about. But I think throughout
[7:42] Speaker 3: my investing life, you know one mantra I've always had is,
[7:45] Speaker 3: you know, you've got to be really good at knowing
[7:47] Speaker 3: what you don't know. And that comes with being more humble,
[7:51] Speaker 3: That comes with kind of asking a lot of questions,
[7:54] Speaker 3: not being intimidated by bringing people around you that are
[7:56] Speaker 3: smarter than you. Because I was like, hey, I could
[7:58] Speaker 3: understand people, I can under stand math. Now how do
[8:02] Speaker 3: I fill in these blanks? How do I get people
[8:04] Speaker 3: around me They're going to give me kind of the
[8:06] Speaker 3: knowledge that I know I don't have, and that career
[8:09] Speaker 3: proession was from farmland. They said, hey, w you did
[8:12] Speaker 3: an amazing job. Can you take real estate? Can you
[8:14] Speaker 3: take natural resources? Can you take all of private markets?
[8:18] Speaker 3: And then ultimately can you be the chief investment officer
[8:20] Speaker 3: and then growing that into a acid management firm? And
[8:25] Speaker 3: what I realized was that what I thought my passion
[8:27] Speaker 3: was was in investing, but the real passion that I
[8:31] Speaker 3: really found was was in building, building things, you know,
[8:34] Speaker 3: managing teams and bringing teams together.
[8:36] Speaker 2: So I want to circle back to building what you
[8:40] Speaker 2: did at Nouvene. How do you go from JP Morgan
[8:43] Speaker 2: to AIG to Merrill? What ultimately leads you to Nouveen?
[8:48] Speaker 3: You know, what leads me to Nouvene is just I
[8:50] Speaker 3: always say, like picking up the breadcrumbs.
[8:52] Speaker 4: Right.
[8:52] Speaker 3: I was on a journey of really kind of searching again,
[8:56] Speaker 3: what's my passion, what I want to do. I was
[8:58] Speaker 3: very fortunate, you know, here I am. I'm sitting on
[9:00] Speaker 3: at a job on Wall Street at JP Morgan. Very
[9:03] Speaker 3: fortunate to have it, but I couldn't see myself doing
[9:06] Speaker 3: that job for twenty years. Then I'm like, oh, I'm
[9:08] Speaker 3: fortunate to get a job on the byside, and I'm like, okay,
[9:11] Speaker 3: this is great.
[9:12] Speaker 4: I'm at AIG.
[9:13] Speaker 3: You know, it's a terrific opportunity, terrific firm. Yet there's
[9:17] Speaker 3: still that thing that I'm kind of still trying to
[9:19] Speaker 3: find that feels like, hey, what's really getting my juices going?
[9:23] Speaker 3: And you know, it was always that search for that
[9:27] Speaker 3: thing that kind of made me get up early in
[9:29] Speaker 3: the morning. And when I ultimately landed at Newvine, which
[9:32] Speaker 3: was part of TIA, that was that role. And I
[9:35] Speaker 3: ended up being there twenty years. And I would tell
[9:38] Speaker 3: you the large the longest role I've ever had in
[9:41] Speaker 3: my life in my entire career was my five years
[9:45] Speaker 3: or so, as is my role as CEO there.
[9:47] Speaker 2: Even twenty years is a long time in the modern
[9:51] Speaker 2: world to be at any one firm. It seems people
[9:54] Speaker 2: don't do that anymore. What was it that kept you there?
[9:57] Speaker 2: It sounds like they kept pilot on new challenges and
[10:01] Speaker 2: really keeping you engaged.
[10:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right, meaning like the longest role I've
[10:06] Speaker 3: had in my career is the five years I was
[10:08] Speaker 3: the CEO part of that Every three four years someone
[10:11] Speaker 3: was giving me something else to build.
[10:13] Speaker 4: I always say, I get itchy.
[10:15] Speaker 3: Maybe I'm not the best steward in the world, but
[10:17] Speaker 3: what does get me excited is building things, kind of
[10:20] Speaker 3: building new teams, you know, the challenge of kind of
[10:24] Speaker 3: like growing a capability, and I got to do that.
[10:27] Speaker 3: Over the course of twenty years. I've been extremely blessed
[10:30] Speaker 3: and same thing and moving to my role now it's
[10:33] Speaker 3: a tremendous opportunity. And you know, I could still say
[10:36] Speaker 3: that twenty plus years. I still get excited every morning
[10:40] Speaker 3: to kind of go to work.
[10:41] Speaker 2: When you say building new teams, give us an example
[10:44] Speaker 2: of some of the sort of teams you helped build
[10:47] Speaker 2: that kept you occupied for twenty years.
[10:50] Speaker 3: Sure, I mean one I mentioned the Farmland example. That
[10:53] Speaker 3: was a complete startup.
[10:55] Speaker 2: From scratch, from zero.
[10:56] Speaker 3: From zero dollars to kind of go in and building
[10:58] Speaker 3: a team. You know, very proud of what we did
[11:01] Speaker 3: in private credit. You know, we started the Churchill Group
[11:04] Speaker 3: with you know again that was finding the right people,
[11:07] Speaker 3: finding Ken Kinsell, who was a tremendous leader and had
[11:10] Speaker 3: a team with him, and we started with zero. Today,
[11:12] Speaker 3: that broader platform at Neuvene is almost you know, just
[11:17] Speaker 3: short of one hundred billion in private credit. So there's
[11:21] Speaker 3: multiple examples like that where the basically the blueprint was
[11:25] Speaker 3: either we were doing an acquisition or we were finding
[11:27] Speaker 3: a team, and we're saying, Okay, we've got the right
[11:29] Speaker 3: makings here of a team. How do we give this
[11:31] Speaker 3: team the right tools and go out and try to
[11:34] Speaker 3: grow grow a platform.
[11:36] Speaker 2: So you're no strange too. Alternatives. We've talked about farmland,
[11:40] Speaker 2: real estate, private credit, private debt, natural resources. What is
[11:45] Speaker 2: your view today on alts? What do you think about
[11:48] Speaker 2: what kind of feels a little bit like a land rush?
[11:51] Speaker 2: What's going on in the world of altz today?
[11:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know it feels like a land rush,
[11:55] Speaker 3: but I will tell you that this has been building
[11:57] Speaker 3: for some time. And the interesting thing is, you know,
[12:01] Speaker 3: if I go back ten fifteen years ago, my pitch
[12:04] Speaker 3: talking to clients around alternatives was one that was largely academic, right,
[12:08] Speaker 3: It was this idea of diversification.
[12:11] Speaker 4: Diversification.
[12:12] Speaker 3: Hey, by the way, I know you haven't seen inflation
[12:14] Speaker 3: in twenty years, but it may show up, and if
[12:16] Speaker 3: it does, are you protected for it? By the way,
[12:19] Speaker 3: you may be going to a market where there's a
[12:21] Speaker 3: lot more volatility. Have you thought about that? And then also, hey,
[12:25] Speaker 3: have you thought about yield? You know, you know there's
[12:27] Speaker 3: ways to kind of think about principal protection and your
[12:29] Speaker 3: portfolio and then yield and alternatives. I would say it's
[12:32] Speaker 3: just the way of bringing in the right correlations into
[12:36] Speaker 3: your portfolio. And some of the biggest alpha and alternatives
[12:40] Speaker 3: is the lack of access.
[12:42] Speaker 2: Meaning the iloquidly you can't sell in a panic because
[12:45] Speaker 2: the market's a off eight percent.
[12:47] Speaker 3: Yeah, and in many ways, you know you're you're going
[12:49] Speaker 3: to kind of structure and get a return you're looking
[12:51] Speaker 3: for because you need to have a specific skill or
[12:55] Speaker 3: access point to get those assets, so that maybe the
[12:57] Speaker 3: market's are a little bit less efficient.
[13:00] Speaker 4: You know.
[13:01] Speaker 3: The interesting thing is today that academic conversation has turned
[13:05] Speaker 3: into urgency.
[13:06] Speaker 4: Right.
[13:07] Speaker 3: So now, while markets have obviously continued to be at
[13:11] Speaker 3: all time highs, I think individual investors have felt what
[13:14] Speaker 3: volatility feels like, whether that was coming out of the
[13:16] Speaker 3: global financial crisis, whether that was at of COVID and
[13:20] Speaker 3: the pandemic. We have felt and seen a lot of
[13:23] Speaker 3: significant volatility.
[13:25] Speaker 2: Twenty twenty two, first time in forty years, stocks and
[13:27] Speaker 2: bonds both down double digits. Like people seem to think
[13:31] Speaker 2: volatility gets conquered every few years, and whenever there's any
[13:35] Speaker 2: sort of complacency, the market says, now's the time to
[13:38] Speaker 2: teach people volatility never goes away.
[13:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, And throughout that, throughout that time period, you've also
[13:44] Speaker 3: have seen the growth of index funds.
[13:46] Speaker 4: Right. So also on top.
[13:47] Speaker 3: Of that is this idea of like you know, I
[13:49] Speaker 3: always say the world's become more commoditized when I entered
[13:52] Speaker 3: the industry, you differentiate it yourself by picking better securities
[13:57] Speaker 3: than the next person and driving returns.
[13:59] Speaker 4: Then all of us sudden there was a focus on cost.
[14:01] Speaker 4: Believe it or not.
[14:02] Speaker 3: Once upon a time, you know, paid nobody paid attention
[14:06] Speaker 3: to fees. I think then it was well, no, you're
[14:08] Speaker 3: going to compete on fees as well, and then became
[14:11] Speaker 3: the race to zero. Today, you know, investment performance is
[14:15] Speaker 3: obviously extremely important, but it's table stakes cost. We're all
[14:20] Speaker 3: we're all kind of basically at the bottom end of
[14:22] Speaker 3: that curve for costs. So now it's more around what
[14:26] Speaker 3: are the outcomes you're going to deliver to someone. Technology
[14:29] Speaker 3: is it's a big component. It is the flexibility that
[14:32] Speaker 3: you offer you offer clients but it is ultimately about
[14:36] Speaker 3: what is the outcomes you're going to get to clients.
[14:38] Speaker 3: And that's seventy thirty portfolio. That passive fund. It said, hey,
[14:42] Speaker 3: you're in a target day fund. You don't have to
[14:44] Speaker 3: do anything, just sit back and it all adjusts and
[14:47] Speaker 3: drives kind of the returns you need. Well, in those
[14:49] Speaker 3: moments where correlations go to one, it didn't feel so good.
[14:53] Speaker 3: That's right, it didn't feel so good. And I think
[14:55] Speaker 3: now there's more sophistication in terms of how you package
[15:00] Speaker 3: you know, solutions, more sophistication now on the need to
[15:04] Speaker 3: get alternatives to clients.
[15:07] Speaker 4: I think these things all now.
[15:08] Speaker 3: I think again, what was an academic conversation today is
[15:12] Speaker 3: is an urgency.
[15:14] Speaker 2: So the phrase I've heard from a number of people
[15:16] Speaker 2: over the past year or so has been seventy thirty,
[15:21] Speaker 2: sixty forty. That's the old way. The new way is
[15:24] Speaker 2: fifty thirty twenty. Are you in that camp?
[15:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think fifty thirty, twenty one, thirty thirty. Look,
[15:32] Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I would say it's
[15:35] Speaker 3: not really about whether you should be in the fifty
[15:37] Speaker 3: to thirty. Ultimately, it starts with a conversation around what
[15:41] Speaker 3: are the outcomes you're looking for? What are your needs
[15:44] Speaker 3: right these these markets and when you think about alternatives,
[15:46] Speaker 3: by the way, these are not get rich quick schemes.
[15:49] Speaker 3: These are not like, oh my god, we need alternatis
[15:50] Speaker 3: because there's like this outsized return in many cases. I'd
[15:53] Speaker 3: mentioned to you Farmland that was a four to six
[15:56] Speaker 3: percent return market, but.
[15:58] Speaker 2: Extremely in long time and long term.
[16:01] Speaker 3: Yeah, but it gave you a certain correlation. So yes,
[16:05] Speaker 3: fit like all these different mechanisms.
[16:07] Speaker 4: At the end of the.
[16:08] Speaker 3: Day, though, what it's really all about is what are
[16:11] Speaker 3: the outcomes you're trying to drive for your clients, and
[16:15] Speaker 3: what is the sophistication we have and the ability to
[16:18] Speaker 3: construct those portfolios? And the most important thing in constructing
[16:22] Speaker 3: those portfolios is do you have access to a broad
[16:25] Speaker 3: array of capabilities? Because the more access you have to
[16:28] Speaker 3: different types of assets, the better the outcome.
[16:32] Speaker 4: Is portfolio theory one oh one.
[16:34] Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with jose Manaiah, global
[16:39] Speaker 2: head of b and Wise Investment and Wealth, discussing his
[16:43] Speaker 2: experiences at New Veen ti AI. I'm Barry Ritolts. You're
[16:48] Speaker 2: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Redults.
[17:04] Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My
[17:08] Speaker 2: special guest this week is jose Manaiah. He is the
[17:11] Speaker 2: global head of B and Y Investments and Wealth, helping
[17:15] Speaker 2: to manage over two point two trillion dollars in client assets.
[17:20] Speaker 2: So when you were at Nouvene, you ran about a
[17:24] Speaker 2: trillion dollars in assets. You led the company through a
[17:27] Speaker 2: big expansion through the COVID pandemic, and then you helped
[17:32] Speaker 2: expand the entire digital engagement. Tell us a little bit
[17:36] Speaker 2: about what you put together at Neuvene.
[17:39] Speaker 3: Well, I think again on veen I if I you know,
[17:42] Speaker 3: was quite a twenty year journey because I joined when
[17:45] Speaker 3: it was basically just the investment team for TIA.
[17:49] Speaker 2: That was right after the dot com implosion around O
[17:52] Speaker 2: four something.
[17:52] Speaker 4: That was around four.
[17:54] Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, I really started in five, and really I
[17:59] Speaker 3: was just in it was just an investment team. Like
[18:01] Speaker 3: I said, I joined as a fixed income portfolio manager.
[18:04] Speaker 3: At the time, we're managing money for about a two
[18:07] Speaker 3: hundred billion dollar general account. Everything was based in New
[18:11] Speaker 3: York City.
[18:12] Speaker 2: When you say general account, you're managing it on behalf
[18:14] Speaker 2: of Nouvene, not specific clients.
[18:16] Speaker 3: I was managing on behalf of the balance sheet of TIA,
[18:20] Speaker 3: which is an insurance which is an insurance company, so
[18:23] Speaker 3: largely just that was really the structure Nouve. We had
[18:28] Speaker 3: not acquired Nouvine yet at that time. But from that
[18:31] Speaker 3: two hundred billion you fast forward to today and what
[18:35] Speaker 3: I was there to help build and it became a
[18:37] Speaker 3: trillion dollar asset manager, one where it still managed the
[18:41] Speaker 3: approximately two hundred billion dollar balance sheet, but then it
[18:44] Speaker 3: raised another eight hundred plus billion and just outside capital
[18:47] Speaker 3: and these are sobbing wealth funds, wealth platforms, retail, and
[18:53] Speaker 3: it grew to about almost two hundred and fifty billion
[18:58] Speaker 3: in alternatives as well, So pretty diversified, diversified shop, which
[19:04] Speaker 3: now you're seeing a lot of firms trying to kind
[19:06] Speaker 3: of capture that same not just scale, but diversity in
[19:11] Speaker 3: their business.
[19:12] Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about real assets that you've
[19:14] Speaker 2: had a lot of background in. Tell us about real estate, agriculture, timber, infrastructure.
[19:21] Speaker 2: Tell us how you built those areas previously at Neuvene,
[19:24] Speaker 2: now at B and Y.
[19:26] Speaker 3: Sure And I think, look, I think first of you
[19:28] Speaker 3: think about those different asset classes. I go back to
[19:31] Speaker 3: these are not typically, you know, strategies that you're trying
[19:34] Speaker 3: to get outsized returns. If they sometimes they come and
[19:38] Speaker 3: they're very much welcomed. They're typically pretty structured transactions, right,
[19:43] Speaker 3: whether it's buildings with rents, farmland with the leases, infrastructure
[19:48] Speaker 3: with kind of twenty thirty year contracts. Often there is
[19:52] Speaker 3: a hedge against inflation, whether that is contractual or just
[19:56] Speaker 3: by the nature of the commodity.
[19:58] Speaker 2: So prices go up. Langos follows.
[20:01] Speaker 3: So the simple kind of math on these things are
[20:03] Speaker 3: I'm clipping a coupon, so there's a yield component and
[20:07] Speaker 3: it's a pretty steady one. I have a gold like
[20:11] Speaker 3: protection because if you think about what do I own.
[20:15] Speaker 3: I own farmland in a particular case, well, that produces
[20:20] Speaker 3: a need for society and perpetuity, So there's a certain
[20:23] Speaker 3: kind of protection in your principle in owning that, or
[20:26] Speaker 3: you know wind farms. Just again there's intrinsic value. I
[20:30] Speaker 3: have a yield, but it's usually tied to a commodity,
[20:33] Speaker 3: and because of that, there's also an inflation hedge component
[20:36] Speaker 3: to it, and it brings down my volatility because it's
[20:39] Speaker 3: again it's more of that consistent return profile. So it
[20:43] Speaker 3: plays that part in portfolios that it gives a yield,
[20:47] Speaker 3: It gives it in a way that should be pretty
[20:49] Speaker 3: kind of high sharp ratio, lower volatility. Now today that
[20:54] Speaker 3: market is starting, it's trying to get into more mainstream. Now,
[20:58] Speaker 3: if I fast forward to my opportunity going to Be
[21:02] Speaker 3: and Why. Now, look, I had that journey in my
[21:05] Speaker 3: previous life. What I saw in Be and Why is
[21:07] Speaker 3: where the industry is going right B and Y. Obviously
[21:10] Speaker 3: it's two times the size of where where I came from,
[21:13] Speaker 3: but it's also part of BE and Why.
[21:15] Speaker 4: The bank and Be and Why.
[21:17] Speaker 3: The bank touches about a fit a fifth of the
[21:20] Speaker 3: world's investable assets. So there's almost amazing, Yeah, there's almost
[21:24] Speaker 3: sixty trillion dollars, call it fifty five to fifty six
[21:27] Speaker 3: trillion to be exact, that the bank is touching, and
[21:30] Speaker 3: it's either managing these assets, it's either custoding these assets,
[21:34] Speaker 3: or it's helping move kind of the financial the global
[21:37] Speaker 3: financial markets around. That is tremendous kind of access points
[21:41] Speaker 3: to someone like me sitting as an asset manager because
[21:45] Speaker 3: I'm working at I'm working at a firm that is
[21:47] Speaker 3: one of the largest asset servicers in the world. It
[21:50] Speaker 3: also is one of the largest services to wealth platforms.
[21:54] Speaker 3: I registered investment advisors. Well, I have a wealth platform,
[21:58] Speaker 3: I manage I manage an investment platform. How do I
[22:01] Speaker 3: get advantage of the fact that there's tremendous technology being
[22:05] Speaker 3: invested to help serve asset managers? And if you go
[22:10] Speaker 3: back to a comment that we talked about previously, which
[22:13] Speaker 3: is if the world's becoming more commoditized with performance and cost,
[22:18] Speaker 3: then what is the difference? The difference in what is
[22:21] Speaker 3: the tip of the spere is technology? You hear about
[22:24] Speaker 3: tokenized assets, which of which B and Y is on
[22:26] Speaker 3: the forefront. That's just about helping clients move money quicker.
[22:30] Speaker 2: To define what tokenized assets mean when we're talking about
[22:34] Speaker 2: stops or bonds.
[22:35] Speaker 3: I think the simplest way that I think about tokenized
[22:38] Speaker 3: assets is it's an ability to again be more liquid,
[22:42] Speaker 3: Meaning if you were in a T plus one scenario,
[22:45] Speaker 3: do you have the ability to be in a T
[22:47] Speaker 3: plus five minutes?
[22:48] Speaker 2: So for the layperson, T plus one means you sell
[22:52] Speaker 2: something today, it clears tomorrow, the cash is in your
[22:55] Speaker 2: account one day later. T plus zero, as some people
[22:59] Speaker 2: call it, means you sell it and you instantly get
[23:02] Speaker 2: the cash. Is that what tokenization does for for people?
[23:05] Speaker 3: That's a big component. So that's creating that liquidity where
[23:09] Speaker 3: if you had to wait twenty four hours, now you
[23:12] Speaker 3: can wait a lot less than twenty four hours. The
[23:14] Speaker 3: other thing that it helps do is also kind of
[23:17] Speaker 3: you're able to earn a yield on but.
[23:20] Speaker 2: You're getting the cash now. For most people, one day
[23:23] Speaker 2: doesn't matter. But scale that up to an institution, scale
[23:26] Speaker 2: it up to a banker, ensure that day times thousands
[23:30] Speaker 2: and thousands of accounts and transactions really adds up, doesn't it.
[23:34] Speaker 3: I mean, scale that to again, B and Y is
[23:36] Speaker 3: kind of touching and helping move fifty five trillion dollars.
[23:40] Speaker 2: So T plus zero or T plus five minutes that's
[23:43] Speaker 2: much better than T plus one.
[23:45] Speaker 3: And it's a big difference. And your ability again to
[23:47] Speaker 3: potentially earn a yield in that process also right in
[23:52] Speaker 3: that whole T plus one in that twenty four hours,
[23:55] Speaker 3: In many cases you're not able to earn a yield
[23:57] Speaker 3: while that money is clearing.
[23:59] Speaker 2: So back in any battle days when it was T
[24:01] Speaker 2: plus three, we were always told, hey, it takes three
[24:06] Speaker 2: days to just make sure there's no fraud. The right
[24:09] Speaker 2: stock is going to the right buyer, the money goes
[24:12] Speaker 2: to the right account, and when they got trunk down
[24:15] Speaker 2: to one day. Well, technology has allowed us to do this,
[24:18] Speaker 2: but we still need a day just to verify everything.
[24:22] Speaker 2: What is it that allows us to go to T
[24:24] Speaker 2: plus zero? Is it just technology? Tell us how that works?
[24:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think obviously the blockchain technology is one component.
[24:35] Speaker 3: The other component is the fact that you know, one
[24:38] Speaker 3: of the reasons being why I can lead in this
[24:39] Speaker 3: area is that it custodies around eighty plus percent of
[24:44] Speaker 3: the digital assets.
[24:45] Speaker 2: Digital assets meanwhile ethereum, bitcoin, any other sort of things
[24:50] Speaker 2: like that.
[24:50] Speaker 3: And it's one of the It is the largest custodian
[24:53] Speaker 3: in the world in general. So clearing something becomes a
[24:56] Speaker 3: lot easier when it's all sitting inside. I mean, think
[24:59] Speaker 3: about a warehouse. I don't have to move it from
[25:01] Speaker 3: one warehouse to the other. That makes life a lot easier.
[25:04] Speaker 2: So that's from one way. You're not even moving it
[25:06] Speaker 2: from one road to another. You're just changing the label.
[25:09] Speaker 2: Here's who owns this?
[25:10] Speaker 4: Yeah, now, and again I will tell you for me.
[25:12] Speaker 3: It's I was having a conversation with our CEO about
[25:15] Speaker 3: this the other day where I'm like one of the
[25:17] Speaker 3: other things I love about my career right now. Look,
[25:19] Speaker 3: it's been a long time since I've walked into rooms
[25:22] Speaker 3: and I'm learning something because typically, you know, I was
[25:25] Speaker 3: a subject matter expert, and typically most rooms that I
[25:28] Speaker 3: walked into I felt like I was the expert in
[25:31] Speaker 3: that in that category. I'm not an expert on tokenization.
[25:35] Speaker 3: I'm not an expert on custody. I work at a
[25:39] Speaker 3: firm that has experts, and you know, you're quickly quickly
[25:44] Speaker 3: learning and what's important there. I go back to, Hey,
[25:48] Speaker 3: but what I do understand, even though I know what
[25:50] Speaker 3: I don't know is this matters to my clients. So
[25:54] Speaker 3: all of a sudden, if I am trying to think about, hey,
[25:57] Speaker 3: how am I pitching my services to clients in Asia
[26:02] Speaker 3: and around the globe? And I and I have a
[26:04] Speaker 3: differentiating factor, meaning I can help you go to T
[26:07] Speaker 3: plus zero. That is a differentiator from a relationship perspective.
[26:12] Speaker 3: And this is what I mean by where today it's
[26:15] Speaker 3: it's there's so much more consolidation in the asset management
[26:19] Speaker 3: industry because scale is important. And why scale important because
[26:23] Speaker 3: you then need to be able to service and invest
[26:25] Speaker 3: in these technologies to service your client. AI is a
[26:29] Speaker 3: big topic today and I would I would argue and say, well,
[26:34] Speaker 3: if it's no longer debatable that AI is here and
[26:37] Speaker 3: it's going to be disruptive, is going to make a difference.
[26:39] Speaker 3: So if you believe that, you also have to believe
[26:42] Speaker 3: that the firms who can invest in it are going
[26:45] Speaker 3: to be the winners for tomorrow. Now, you know, being
[26:49] Speaker 3: able to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in in
[26:51] Speaker 3: AI that takes significant scale, That takes kind of diversified businesses,
[26:57] Speaker 3: being able to hire engineers. Right, So when I was
[26:59] Speaker 3: sitting usually in the role of running an asset management shop,
[27:03] Speaker 3: it's very hard for me to even say, how am
[27:04] Speaker 3: I even going to attract engineers from solicon Valley? How
[27:07] Speaker 3: am I going to be able to pay them? Well,
[27:09] Speaker 3: B and Y is a massive tech stack, right, Like
[27:11] Speaker 3: they can attract a lot of engineers, they can attract
[27:14] Speaker 3: a lot of investment in AI. I just happen to
[27:16] Speaker 3: be in that realm, part of that universe, and I'm
[27:19] Speaker 3: going to be able to benefit from that technology.
[27:23] Speaker 2: So let me step back a second, because we're all
[27:26] Speaker 2: guilty of using acronyms and even something like B and why.
[27:31] Speaker 2: You and I understand it, but perhaps the listener needs
[27:34] Speaker 2: to learn a little more. B and Y is Bank
[27:37] Speaker 2: of New York. It's been around for how long?
[27:40] Speaker 4: Two hundred and forty plus years. I think I've whear
[27:42] Speaker 4: two forty one two.
[27:44] Speaker 2: So more than almost two and a half centuries, more
[27:47] Speaker 2: than two centuries.
[27:48] Speaker 3: I got to add to that because I'm always fat.
[27:50] Speaker 3: I will tell you, even as I joined B and Y,
[27:52] Speaker 3: there are things I did not know. You know, obviously,
[27:54] Speaker 3: it's the first bank in the United States. It was
[27:56] Speaker 3: the first bank to issue the first loan or warrant,
[28:00] Speaker 3: begun by Alexander Hamilton. It's the first company traded on
[28:05] Speaker 3: the New York Sock Exchange, was the first first public company.
[28:09] Speaker 3: You know, our first clients of the of the bank
[28:11] Speaker 3: where George Washington and Eliza Hamilton and you know. So
[28:15] Speaker 3: it's it's just got incredible, incredible.
[28:17] Speaker 2: History, unbelievable history. In addition to all that history, B
[28:21] Speaker 2: and Y is also affiliated through ownership with a lot
[28:25] Speaker 2: of really well known names within finance. Tell us about
[28:31] Speaker 2: some of the other divisions that maybe people will be
[28:34] Speaker 2: more familiar with those names.
[28:35] Speaker 3: Yeah, and I tell you, I think this has a
[28:36] Speaker 3: lot to do with kind of the recent performance you're
[28:39] Speaker 3: seeing about the firm, because it's unlocking what we would
[28:42] Speaker 3: describe as you know, B and Y is a platform
[28:45] Speaker 3: operating has a platform operating model, meaning it has multiple platforms.
[28:51] Speaker 4: You know.
[28:52] Speaker 3: Of course, it has an asset manager, and it has
[28:54] Speaker 3: a wealth business. As we said, it's got a two
[28:56] Speaker 3: trillion dollar acid manager. It's got about a three hundred
[28:59] Speaker 3: and fifty billion dollar private bank wealth platform. By the way,
[29:02] Speaker 3: it also owns pershing.
[29:04] Speaker 2: And Giant clearing shop and.
[29:06] Speaker 3: And that captures around almost three trillion and advisors advisors
[29:11] Speaker 3: capital that it's servicing through a technology and a service
[29:14] Speaker 3: and a service platform. It has an asset servicing arm,
[29:19] Speaker 3: and that asset servicing is serving both asset managers and
[29:21] Speaker 3: asset owners doing things like custody uh, fund accounting. It
[29:28] Speaker 3: it has a treasury component as well. You know, the
[29:31] Speaker 3: other interesting thing about being WI is it clears all
[29:35] Speaker 3: the treasuries of the United States, So, uh, you know,
[29:38] Speaker 3: it's a jesip, It's a it's a significant bank, uh
[29:41] Speaker 3: and plays an important part in our financial and our
[29:44] Speaker 3: financial system.
[29:45] Speaker 2: Really really interesting. So tell me the story of how
[29:50] Speaker 2: you move from Neuvene to your role as global head
[29:54] Speaker 2: of B and Y Investments. You're doubling the size of
[29:57] Speaker 2: the assets you're responsible. Have you approach this change? What
[30:01] Speaker 2: sort of challenges did you face?
[30:03] Speaker 3: You know, I think every challenge that's kind of a
[30:06] Speaker 3: that's really attracted me, including what you know, what kept
[30:09] Speaker 3: me in my previous role and the different roles I
[30:12] Speaker 3: was in It was the opportunity for growth, right, And
[30:15] Speaker 3: I think looking at at B and Y and seeing
[30:19] Speaker 3: where I believe the industry is going just so a
[30:21] Speaker 3: tremendous opportunity of what is a true trillion dollar shop,
[30:25] Speaker 3: you know, should should easily be a four trillion dollar shop, right,
[30:28] Speaker 3: And you think about the ecosystem that we play in
[30:31] Speaker 3: within be and why right, as I mentioned you, you know,
[30:34] Speaker 3: we we manage money for other people as an asset manager.
[30:39] Speaker 3: We manage money also as a wealth platform for for
[30:42] Speaker 3: families and individuals. Yet we also have we also service
[30:48] Speaker 3: other wealth advisors through purshing. But there also are the
[30:53] Speaker 3: clients of the firm. I'm an acid manager, A lot
[30:56] Speaker 3: of my competitors are clients of B and Y as well.
[30:59] Speaker 3: So and then you think about the technology that it
[31:02] Speaker 3: takes to do all that and and grow that technology stack.
[31:06] Speaker 3: I feel like a kid on a candy store for
[31:08] Speaker 3: two reasons. One, that's a tremendous amount of infrastructure and
[31:13] Speaker 3: capabilities that are there that I should have a home
[31:17] Speaker 3: field advantage to. The other thing is that has become
[31:20] Speaker 3: a lot easier in my job. Is you know, when
[31:22] Speaker 3: you touch a fifth of the world's assets, most people
[31:27] Speaker 3: are your clients, So getting having a conversation with potential clients.
[31:33] Speaker 4: Is very easy to do.
[31:34] Speaker 3: A lot of what you've seen the recent success of
[31:37] Speaker 3: B and Y and I think you said this earlier
[31:39] Speaker 3: is a collection of a lot of different things that
[31:41] Speaker 3: were either acquired or built. Is that, But it was
[31:45] Speaker 3: also a very siloed organization for a while. The ability
[31:48] Speaker 3: of having that cross connection if I look at a
[31:51] Speaker 3: world that AI is going to be important, you know,
[31:53] Speaker 3: being able to touch your clients in multiple ways and
[31:55] Speaker 3: have broader technology. I am sitting in that in a
[31:59] Speaker 3: spot where in those all those platform operating models, I'm
[32:03] Speaker 3: two of those, but I'm fitting in pretty well. I'm
[32:06] Speaker 3: trying to take the advantage of the other five or
[32:08] Speaker 3: six that are around me. A great example of that
[32:12] Speaker 3: that I is Archer.
[32:14] Speaker 4: Archer is a digital platform. It's a technology platform for SMAs. Right,
[32:20] Speaker 4: so I e.
[32:20] Speaker 3: Your ability to clients want to be able to We
[32:23] Speaker 3: talked about solutions, your ability to go to an Archer.
[32:26] Speaker 3: And by the way, my previous job Archer was a
[32:29] Speaker 3: client of Archer.
[32:30] Speaker 2: And SMA stand for separately managed accounts.
[32:33] Speaker 4: Separately managed accounts. So again, now you go back to technology,
[32:36] Speaker 4: meaning you may be able to manage bonds and equities
[32:39] Speaker 4: and alternatives or even tax managed solutions. Believe it or not.
[32:44] Speaker 3: Bringing that together in a package for individuals takes technology.
[32:48] Speaker 3: Of course, asset managers traditionally their stock pickers or investors
[32:52] Speaker 3: are not technology people. So you go to that platform
[32:55] Speaker 3: and do that. Now, when I join B and Y,
[32:58] Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, this is great. Acquired Archer. I know
[33:01] Speaker 3: that they have a great capability for doing this and
[33:03] Speaker 3: this is a growing market. And already our wealth platform
[33:07] Speaker 3: is a client of Archer before it was even acquired.
[33:10] Speaker 3: The Acid Management on being White was already a client
[33:13] Speaker 3: was acquired. Now Archer is also free to grow because
[33:16] Speaker 3: it services a broader, broader capability.
[33:19] Speaker 2: So if your services be and why and be and why, clients.
[33:22] Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's important because again, if you think about this,
[33:25] Speaker 3: the model of tomorrow and what scale matters is one
[33:28] Speaker 3: you can it's its own business and just kind of
[33:31] Speaker 3: providing what Archer does to the broader to the broader community,
[33:36] Speaker 3: we get an inside where we get an inside view
[33:38] Speaker 3: and a home field advantage and getting it ourselves. Typically,
[33:42] Speaker 3: if I build my own SMA platform, I have to
[33:45] Speaker 3: not worry about how do I feed it to grow it?
[33:47] Speaker 3: Other people are feeding it to grow it, and I
[33:49] Speaker 3: get the benefit of kind of being attached to it.
[33:52] Speaker 3: And I think that connectivity around Hey, everything I do
[33:56] Speaker 3: on the acid management side, you know, all those clients
[33:59] Speaker 3: are pursing they buy that as well. Should we not
[34:02] Speaker 3: be engaging with our clients to do more for them.
[34:04] Speaker 3: It's like, sure, we're doing clearing for you and custody
[34:07] Speaker 3: and offering you technology. We also have asset management, all
[34:10] Speaker 3: of them obviously by asset management as well. So having
[34:14] Speaker 3: those connective dots, I think is I think is a
[34:18] Speaker 3: tremendous competitive advantage.
[34:20] Speaker 2: So I want to talk a little bit about your role.
[34:22] Speaker 2: I want to define it better. At NEUVIN, you were
[34:25] Speaker 2: CIO and then you were CEO. Two distinct positions. Your
[34:30] Speaker 2: title is head Global Head of B and Y Investments
[34:33] Speaker 2: and Wealth. Sounds like a little bit of each you're building,
[34:38] Speaker 2: but you're also helping to direct the investing. Tell us
[34:41] Speaker 2: a little bit about your roles and responsibilities in this
[34:44] Speaker 2: new position at B and Y.
[34:46] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I look at one end of the
[34:48] Speaker 3: spectrum is very similar to my previous role, which is
[34:51] Speaker 3: B and WHY Investments. Is an asset manager, you know,
[34:54] Speaker 3: obviously it's a much bigger one than the firm came from,
[34:57] Speaker 3: but it's an asset manager, and there you know, I'm
[35:01] Speaker 3: the chief executive for that particular platform. We also have
[35:05] Speaker 3: a wealth platform and very different from asset management. It's
[35:09] Speaker 3: more dealing with individuals and advice, but there's also synergies
[35:13] Speaker 3: in the business right, meaning if you're a wealth advisor,
[35:15] Speaker 3: you're talking about how do you create investment products, how
[35:19] Speaker 3: do you source them? What we have investment products, and
[35:21] Speaker 3: how do how do we make sure those two groups
[35:23] Speaker 3: are talking to each other. What's the products that we're creating.
[35:27] Speaker 3: If you're an asset manager, A big part of who
[35:30] Speaker 3: our clients are are wealth advisors. So having a good
[35:33] Speaker 3: understanding of kind of what wealth advisors need it really
[35:36] Speaker 3: helps to have a wealth advisor in house, so I'm
[35:39] Speaker 3: managing a larger platform, but at the end of the day,
[35:42] Speaker 3: my job is still very similar. It's about picking the
[35:45] Speaker 3: right teams and people.
[35:47] Speaker 4: You know, we talk about two trillion dollars and I
[35:49] Speaker 4: would tell you two trillion should go to four trillion.
[35:51] Speaker 4: We don't own any of that money the end of
[35:53] Speaker 4: the day.
[35:54] Speaker 3: Our biggest value set of what we do and have
[35:57] Speaker 3: is our people and obviously the technology that we can
[36:00] Speaker 3: offer those folks, but people is kind of really our business.
[36:03] Speaker 3: And I've kind of seen my job today really as
[36:06] Speaker 3: the chief chief people officer for.
[36:08] Speaker 4: How we kind of build teams around this.
[36:10] Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with jose manya global
[36:14] Speaker 2: head of b and WISE Investment and Wealth, discussing his
[36:19] Speaker 2: experiences at New Veen TIAA. I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening
[36:24] Speaker 2: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Ridults.
[36:41] Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My
[36:44] Speaker 2: special guest this week is jose Manaiah. He is the
[36:48] Speaker 2: global head of b and Y Investments and Wealth, helping
[36:52] Speaker 2: to manage over two point two trillion dollars in client assets.
[36:57] Speaker 2: So let's talk about who the clients are at B
[37:00] Speaker 2: and Y. You mentioned rias and advisors my day job,
[37:06] Speaker 2: but you also work with institutions. You work with high
[37:09] Speaker 2: net worth and family offices, as well as other players
[37:16] Speaker 2: in the investing world who are also clients. Sounds like
[37:21] Speaker 2: you guys are a little bit of everything to a
[37:23] Speaker 2: lot of different people. How do you keep all that
[37:27] Speaker 2: running smoothly? How do you keep all those balls in
[37:29] Speaker 2: the air?
[37:29] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[37:30] Speaker 3: Well, look, I think B and Y is often described
[37:32] Speaker 3: as the bank of banks, right because again it's kind
[37:34] Speaker 3: of that broader provider and in goes the opportunity set right.
[37:39] Speaker 3: Like again, you look at the firm, I don't know
[37:41] Speaker 3: the last tight look, that stock was about one oh six.
[37:44] Speaker 3: You know, that's in less than a three year span
[37:47] Speaker 3: of thereabouts from forty dollars. It makes it one of
[37:50] Speaker 3: the best performing kind of financial stock.
[37:52] Speaker 2: And financials have been kind of lagging the tech sector
[37:55] Speaker 2: for a couple of years. They're stunting to play a
[37:57] Speaker 2: little bit of catch up.
[37:58] Speaker 4: They're playing a little catchup. They're doing better, but I
[38:01] Speaker 4: think few are doing better, if any, are doing better
[38:04] Speaker 4: than be And why some of It goes back to
[38:06] Speaker 4: that question you just asked me. Yeah, that there's a
[38:10] Speaker 4: lot of these the way the way typically these conglomerates
[38:14] Speaker 4: or these platforms would typically manage, we're very siloed. You know.
[38:18] Speaker 3: The ability to bring in the technology and the leadership
[38:22] Speaker 3: to say, how do we have better connectivity across all
[38:26] Speaker 3: our platforms is where the value proposition is and the
[38:29] Speaker 3: market is seeing that and the market is rewarding that.
[38:32] Speaker 2: So it's funny. Earlier we talked about how commoditized so
[38:35] Speaker 2: much of the world has become. You're basically saying we
[38:40] Speaker 2: need to be an integrated solutions provider and not just
[38:43] Speaker 2: have these commoditized silos, which is what exists outside of
[38:48] Speaker 2: a mega bank of banks like v.
[38:50] Speaker 3: And why Yeah, so much. We used to talk about
[38:53] Speaker 3: the you know, concept of selling watches. You know, I
[38:55] Speaker 3: think that you know, the world doesn't really it's it's
[38:58] Speaker 3: hard to sell watches. Now people are looking for they need,
[39:02] Speaker 3: you know, our clients are getting more efficient, they need
[39:05] Speaker 3: to scale their operations as well. And it's the idea
[39:08] Speaker 3: of like do I want to work with one hundred
[39:10] Speaker 3: and fifty managers or am I better off working with
[39:13] Speaker 3: twenty thirty or forty. And if I'm going to go
[39:16] Speaker 3: from one hundred and fifty different types of managers, you know,
[39:21] Speaker 3: to twenty or thirty, how do I pick those twenty
[39:23] Speaker 3: or thirty?
[39:24] Speaker 4: What's going to differentiate that?
[39:26] Speaker 3: So I think a lot of that is is what's
[39:28] Speaker 3: driving the need for scale, It's what's driving the need
[39:31] Speaker 3: for consolidation, and it's also driving a lot of innovation.
[39:35] Speaker 2: So you've mentioned technology a couple of times. We've talked
[39:39] Speaker 2: about tokenization and a little bit about AI. What are
[39:44] Speaker 2: the big technological trends that we can look for over
[39:47] Speaker 2: the next couple of years. Where are you thinking about
[39:51] Speaker 2: how technology is going to have the biggest impact on
[39:55] Speaker 2: asset managers and on investors.
[39:57] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting, and honestly, I often my narrative has changed.
[40:02] Speaker 4: I used to say, look, AI is going to be
[40:04] Speaker 4: very disruptive, but I have no idea if it's five
[40:07] Speaker 4: years from now or twenty years from now. And by
[40:10] Speaker 4: the way, that makes it very difficult to invest in it,
[40:13] Speaker 4: right because it's when are you going to get the
[40:15] Speaker 4: returns for it? You know?
[40:17] Speaker 3: Clearly now that's come into a lot more clarity because
[40:20] Speaker 3: where you know, AI has begun to already yield returns
[40:24] Speaker 3: for firms and be and Y is no different is
[40:27] Speaker 3: on the productivity side, right you know. I think Being
[40:29] Speaker 3: Why is one of the first firms to have digital employees,
[40:32] Speaker 3: So digital employees that can work on real problems, and
[40:36] Speaker 3: that's driving productivity increases.
[40:39] Speaker 4: And that's kind of been a large part of the
[40:41] Speaker 4: narrative with AI.
[40:43] Speaker 3: Now the new narrative is it can also provide value
[40:47] Speaker 3: add So again, an as an investor, do you have
[40:51] Speaker 3: the capability of instead of the old way of We're
[40:54] Speaker 3: going to look at satellite pictures and see how many
[40:56] Speaker 3: cars are there on the driver? Well, now a I
[40:59] Speaker 3: can actually track devices and kind of see where things
[41:02] Speaker 3: are coming. AI is able to go through a lot
[41:06] Speaker 3: more information and and asseeminate that information. So uh, you know,
[41:11] Speaker 3: I I still say that human beings with a I
[41:14] Speaker 3: will be better than human beings without AI.
[41:17] Speaker 4: I e.
[41:17] Speaker 3: You're still going to need the component for for human
[41:20] Speaker 3: beings in the mix. But so much of the future
[41:24] Speaker 3: is unknown and and and by the way, I think
[41:27] Speaker 3: that's also the uneasy part that we are today in
[41:29] Speaker 3: our markets because if you if you speak to individuals
[41:33] Speaker 3: on one end, I can kind of picture and say
[41:36] Speaker 3: the economy is doing great. Earnings earnings are strong, consumer
[41:41] Speaker 3: household balance sheets are strong, wages are still relatively you
[41:47] Speaker 3: know strong as well, and there's a there's a strong
[41:51] Speaker 3: kind of like very constructive view to putting your money
[41:53] Speaker 3: in the market today, even at these valuations. The other
[41:57] Speaker 3: side of that story is okay, but then are we
[42:02] Speaker 3: losing the independence of the fad? Are there geopolitical issues
[42:07] Speaker 3: and wars out there that can also you know, cause
[42:09] Speaker 3: massive disruptions in the global economy, policy issues you know,
[42:16] Speaker 3: and fiscal issues coming to the forefront that could just
[42:18] Speaker 3: be mistakes that happen. So at the same time, there's
[42:22] Speaker 3: so many things then that can go wrong. I always
[42:26] Speaker 3: say we're probably at an all time high of things
[42:29] Speaker 3: that can go wrong. Yet where you shit today should
[42:33] Speaker 3: feel pretty good in terms of you know, the economics
[42:36] Speaker 3: and the economy. And I think technology is the same thing.
[42:39] Speaker 3: It's like, wow, AI is going to be disruptive. What
[42:44] Speaker 3: we think I can do is literally changing every week,
[42:46] Speaker 3: every month, and again that in many ways is exciting.
[42:50] Speaker 3: In many ways, it's also extremely unsettling.
[42:53] Speaker 2: To say the very least. Since you brought up the
[42:56] Speaker 2: current state of the world profits for all time high,
[43:00] Speaker 2: but it seems like risk sort of all time highs.
[43:03] Speaker 2: I want to throw two of your own quotes back
[43:07] Speaker 2: at you and get your thoughts on it. In the
[43:09] Speaker 2: beginning of this year, you said risk assets are going higher.
[43:14] Speaker 2: What led you to that conclusion? And has the year
[43:17] Speaker 2: played out as you expected?
[43:20] Speaker 4: Clearly?
[43:20] Speaker 3: Look, I think and I think there was a little bit.
[43:23] Speaker 3: I think I was challenged a little bit on that comment.
[43:25] Speaker 3: And remember I said it right after Liberation Day, so
[43:28] Speaker 3: the markets were obviously falling off. There was a tremendous
[43:32] Speaker 3: amount of concern with the tariffs and what would come.
[43:35] Speaker 4: You know, I had two thoughts there.
[43:38] Speaker 3: One understanding that I thought the current administration that we
[43:42] Speaker 3: have was going to be about the carrot and the stick,
[43:45] Speaker 3: and we started out the year with the stick, but
[43:47] Speaker 3: you know what, the carrot was going to show up
[43:48] Speaker 3: at some point. And then too, this other view of
[43:52] Speaker 3: you know, most of us don't have a choice to
[43:53] Speaker 3: be risk off, right, the idea that, like, you know,
[43:56] Speaker 3: being risk off through these different cycles hasn't really paid off.
[44:00] Speaker 3: So the one thing you should do is like go
[44:02] Speaker 3: back and look at the fundamentals. But yes, if you're
[44:05] Speaker 3: saying I'm going to just take a correlation of one
[44:07] Speaker 3: or just take broad market exposure. It's more than again
[44:11] Speaker 3: the academic conversation being more of an urgency if you
[44:14] Speaker 3: think about the actual conversation around I'm structured for solutions
[44:18] Speaker 3: for outcomes in my portfolio, then why should you be
[44:22] Speaker 3: risk off?
[44:23] Speaker 4: You already planned for this.
[44:26] Speaker 3: I maybe planned to have part of my principle protected
[44:28] Speaker 3: and maybe plan to have certain amounts of yield or
[44:31] Speaker 3: uncorrelated assets in my portfolio. So my deput is again one,
[44:36] Speaker 3: the fundamentals are there to not say exit the market,
[44:38] Speaker 3: but two, this should not always be around should I
[44:41] Speaker 3: buy this stock or that stock, or should I go
[44:43] Speaker 3: bonds or equities.
[44:44] Speaker 2: Has to be broader.
[44:45] Speaker 4: It has to be.
[44:46] Speaker 3: It has to be broader because you know, we're not
[44:48] Speaker 3: a hedge fund, and a lot of what we do
[44:50] Speaker 3: is not about that.
[44:51] Speaker 4: It is about driving long term outcomes.
[44:55] Speaker 2: So another quote of yours that caught my attention was,
[44:59] Speaker 2: NOI is that all time highs? I totally agree, but
[45:04] Speaker 2: explain your point of view.
[45:06] Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'll explain it.
[45:07] Speaker 3: I'll explain it both in terms of kind of the
[45:09] Speaker 3: where we are in our markets and then also like
[45:11] Speaker 3: it's also like a personal philosophy.
[45:15] Speaker 4: One.
[45:15] Speaker 3: This is what I mean by things look very calm,
[45:19] Speaker 3: things look very constructive, Yet we can I think my
[45:23] Speaker 3: team at the time, and this was back in January,
[45:26] Speaker 3: I think there were like twenty six or thirty different
[45:30] Speaker 3: like press releases or things that happened that kind of
[45:33] Speaker 3: really jolted the markets in some way or cause concern.
[45:37] Speaker 3: So the list of the things going on, whether it's inflation,
[45:41] Speaker 3: whether it's political, you know, the FED policy.
[45:46] Speaker 4: Changes, wars, the list endless. It's endless.
[45:50] Speaker 3: So there's that I think is at an all time
[45:52] Speaker 3: high of the things that Okay, what's the list of
[45:54] Speaker 3: what can go wrong? But then you know the other
[45:56] Speaker 3: thing with noise, And I say this to my kids,
[45:58] Speaker 3: I try to I'm still trying to master this is
[46:02] Speaker 3: that in most cases, eighty percent of what you hear
[46:05] Speaker 3: is just.
[46:05] Speaker 2: Noise, right, and already in stock prices.
[46:08] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's there. It's like twenty percent actually matters.
[46:11] Speaker 2: You know.
[46:11] Speaker 3: I said, to be a good investor, you have to
[46:13] Speaker 3: be good at knowing what you don't know. But I
[46:14] Speaker 3: also think you also have to be good at taking
[46:16] Speaker 3: emotion off the table. You could see a lot. Obviously
[46:20] Speaker 3: we're pretty divided country politically. I always say like, don't
[46:23] Speaker 3: bring that to your investing, right, So it's more like,
[46:26] Speaker 3: take the emotion out, don't let the noise suck you in,
[46:31] Speaker 3: go back, and it's about the fundamentals.
[46:33] Speaker 4: It's about what's in front of you. It's about your outcomes.
[46:36] Speaker 2: I love the concept of knowing what you don't know.
[46:40] Speaker 2: Let's address that. What are investors not talking about, not
[46:45] Speaker 2: thinking about? But should what topics, assets, geography, policy, data points, whatever,
[46:52] Speaker 2: What is not at the forefront of many investors' minds,
[46:56] Speaker 2: but maybe is getting overlooked.
[46:59] Speaker 4: You know.
[47:00] Speaker 3: Well, and again this is going to sound very simple,
[47:02] Speaker 3: and it's been talked about since the beginning of our markets.
[47:07] Speaker 3: You know, it's true diversification. And again it sounds simple,
[47:12] Speaker 3: but it's not because you know, the old diversification is
[47:16] Speaker 3: that seventy thirty, sixty forty stocks bonds. The markets are
[47:21] Speaker 3: a lot more complex and sophisticated. That idea of having
[47:24] Speaker 3: that conversation now around, Let's talk about what I'm trying
[47:28] Speaker 3: to accomplish. Not Hey, I think large caps are hot now,
[47:32] Speaker 3: so I'm going to put you in them. Hey, you know,
[47:35] Speaker 3: you see technology stocks. I think technology is going to
[47:37] Speaker 3: do really good. That to me is what's really being overlooked.
[47:43] Speaker 3: Is again where I know a lot of people sit
[47:44] Speaker 3: down with their advisors and they're getting that academic you know,
[47:49] Speaker 3: dissertation on you should be diversified.
[47:51] Speaker 4: This is why.
[47:52] Speaker 3: This is how, But often the conversation falls right back
[47:56] Speaker 3: to is it large caps, small caps?
[47:57] Speaker 4: Is it tech stocks? Is it banks? Is it financials?
[48:00] Speaker 3: Like that's not the right conversation, even if it alts
[48:03] Speaker 3: for public it's it's everything.
[48:05] Speaker 4: It's all of that, and it's using technology and solutions
[48:08] Speaker 4: and packages to create the right construct for individuals.
[48:13] Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense to me. I only
[48:16] Speaker 2: have you for a couple of more minutes, So let's
[48:18] Speaker 2: jump to our speed round our favorite questions we ask
[48:21] Speaker 2: all our guests, starting with who were your mentors who
[48:25] Speaker 2: helped shape your career?
[48:27] Speaker 4: You know, I've had so many, and I'll tell you
[48:30] Speaker 4: you know, they started with family members. I've had professors.
[48:34] Speaker 3: I've had, you know, the dean of the business school
[48:36] Speaker 3: and then not in college I felt like was a
[48:38] Speaker 3: mentor to me. I have my previous bosses that I
[48:43] Speaker 3: still stay in touch with and try to have lunch
[48:45] Speaker 3: and dinner with. So I have many people that I
[48:50] Speaker 3: can that I can kind of think.
[48:51] Speaker 2: Huh, that's very nice. Let's talk about books. What are
[48:55] Speaker 2: some of your favorites? What are you reading right now?
[48:58] Speaker 4: You know there's I'm not a I'm not a fixing us,
[49:00] Speaker 4: so most of what I read is nonfixtioning.
[49:02] Speaker 2: I love all I'm the same way.
[49:03] Speaker 3: I love all the I love all the Michael Lewis's books.
[49:07] Speaker 3: Recently read The Boys in the Boat. So I just
[49:10] Speaker 3: love the story about people, and I love I love
[49:13] Speaker 3: reading about books that you know you see perseverance in
[49:16] Speaker 3: human beings. Right now, I'll tell you I'm not reading
[49:19] Speaker 3: anything right now. I'm getting ready to read something and
[49:22] Speaker 3: I'm wondering if it's going to stick. But I've been
[49:24] Speaker 3: hearing a lot about The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Oh sure,
[49:28] Speaker 3: And I made the comment around eighty percent of things
[49:32] Speaker 3: you hear as noise. My understanding is that book has
[49:35] Speaker 3: a lot about that in there, of like what you
[49:37] Speaker 3: should really spend your time thinking about. So I was,
[49:41] Speaker 3: I was that synopsis, and I've heard two people now
[49:43] Speaker 3: mention it. So I said, I'm getting ready to read that.
[49:47] Speaker 2: Let me bastardize that for you and say. What I
[49:51] Speaker 2: took from that was recognize what's in your control, and
[49:55] Speaker 2: that's what you focus on. What the FED is going
[49:58] Speaker 2: to do we can't control. Don't lose sleep over it.
[50:01] Speaker 2: Accept it. It's gonna be what it's going to be.
[50:04] Speaker 2: But focus on the things you can control you can change. Really,
[50:08] Speaker 2: it has absolutely stood the test of time. And if
[50:12] Speaker 2: you're a Michael Lewis fan, I'm gonna self promote his
[50:16] Speaker 2: most recent book that just came out, Who Is Government.
[50:19] Speaker 2: We did a live Masters in Business in April, and
[50:23] Speaker 2: I want to say the ratio of me speaking to
[50:26] Speaker 2: him was probably three percent to ninety seven percent. For
[50:30] Speaker 2: ninety minutes, he just regaled the audience with stories and
[50:33] Speaker 2: had people in stitches, absolutely hilarious stories about Billy Bean
[50:38] Speaker 2: and Brad Pitt. Tears down people's face.
[50:41] Speaker 4: I'm going to go listen to that. I'm going to listen. Yeah. Absolutely.
[50:46] Speaker 2: If you're a Michael Lewis fan, I think I've interviewed
[50:49] Speaker 2: him ten twelve times. That's my favorite interview. I heard
[50:53] Speaker 2: stories I never heard before he was his book.
[50:55] Speaker 4: His books ruined.
[50:56] Speaker 3: All the movies that have come out off of his books,
[51:00] Speaker 3: they none of them come close in my opinion to
[51:02] Speaker 3: the actual book.
[51:03] Speaker 2: So I agree with you. The one that's closest is
[51:08] Speaker 2: Moneyball is at least listen the Big Short. I love
[51:12] Speaker 2: the book. The movie wasn't bad. The blind Side the
[51:15] Speaker 2: movie wasn't bad, but Moneyball really captured the moment of.
[51:20] Speaker 4: I agree that money Ball is probably the closest you
[51:23] Speaker 4: got to the book.
[51:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about that. What about streaming, what are
[51:28] Speaker 2: you watching on Netflix or Amazon Prime? Or what podcasts
[51:31] Speaker 2: are you listening to?
[51:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's very similar to kind of the
[51:35] Speaker 3: whole nonfiction thing. I'm a big fan of documentaries on
[51:39] Speaker 3: on Netflix. So there's two things that I'll kind of
[51:41] Speaker 3: do on streaming. It's it's watching The Men Who Built America,
[51:45] Speaker 3: which is a great documentary. It just again it has
[51:48] Speaker 3: you know, the Jp Morgan's of the world, the Carnegie
[51:52] Speaker 3: of the World, Rockefellers, and Vanderbilts. But what it shows
[51:56] Speaker 3: you is the tremendous amount of risk that these individuals
[52:00] Speaker 3: took and what was a very different.
[52:03] Speaker 4: Time in America.
[52:04] Speaker 3: But I love I love the documentaries and then and
[52:06] Speaker 3: then shows What will Happen is I don't watch a
[52:09] Speaker 3: lot of TV. I will watch sports, but I'll hear
[52:12] Speaker 3: things like Breaking Bad. Everyone talked about it. I was like,
[52:15] Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you know, I'm watching it ten
[52:16] Speaker 3: fifteen years after the fact.
[52:18] Speaker 4: And then that led me to say, hey, there's this
[52:20] Speaker 4: show Better Call Saul.
[52:21] Speaker 3: So I just went through the whole, not just went
[52:24] Speaker 3: but you know, I've been going through the I went
[52:26] Speaker 3: through Breaking Bad and then like Better Call Saul. And
[52:30] Speaker 3: so the only way I watch shows now is well,
[52:33] Speaker 3: they came out five seven years ago, and now I'll
[52:35] Speaker 3: go in and be like, Okay, I'll dig in.
[52:37] Speaker 2: So I have two things for you. We saw Madmen
[52:40] Speaker 2: during the pandemic. I never saw a single episode when
[52:43] Speaker 2: I was on TV, like, Wow, this is amazing TV.
[52:46] Speaker 2: And if you're a documentary fan, the Billy Joel documentary,
[52:51] Speaker 2: I saw Joe. We're like three quarters the way through.
[52:54] Speaker 2: It's it's just amazing.
[52:55] Speaker 3: And I'm a big Billy Joel fan, And yeah, I
[52:59] Speaker 3: thought it was. And again it's to me, it's just
[53:01] Speaker 3: it's history and people, right. You just kind of just
[53:04] Speaker 3: love learning about people. And then especially for me, it's
[53:08] Speaker 3: I'm in awe of folk of people who could do
[53:09] Speaker 3: things I can't write, like, I'm in awe of a
[53:12] Speaker 3: billy Joel when you hear about his process and what
[53:14] Speaker 3: he does, and you're like, it's hard not to get inspired.
[53:16] Speaker 2: By absolute hundred percent. Our final two questions, what sort
[53:20] Speaker 2: of advice would you give to a recent college grad
[53:24] Speaker 2: interested in the career in investing?
[53:27] Speaker 4: You know the advice I give everybody coming out of school.
[53:30] Speaker 4: And you know, I think they're waiting to hear for
[53:33] Speaker 4: some kind of special nugget on how they're going to
[53:35] Speaker 4: get ahead doing models or what deals, And I'm like,
[53:38] Speaker 4: do do the easy things really well? Like I did
[53:42] Speaker 4: this intuitively not knowing how important it was, which was
[53:46] Speaker 4: I came into Wall Street. You know they're not going
[53:48] Speaker 4: to give I was fresh out of school. They weren't
[53:49] Speaker 4: going to give me a big client. They weren't give
[53:51] Speaker 4: me a big model. But you know what if someone
[53:53] Speaker 4: said I need copies, I ran and did copies. You
[53:55] Speaker 4: know I could do that that I can do, Hey, book,
[53:58] Speaker 4: book a restaurant for a client dinner. Hey, don't worry
[54:01] Speaker 4: about it. I got it.
[54:03] Speaker 3: So to me, it's like early life is never going
[54:05] Speaker 3: to be that easy in your career than when you're
[54:07] Speaker 3: first out of school. Don't come in day one thinking
[54:10] Speaker 3: about how do I get on, how do I start
[54:13] Speaker 3: traveling and meet clients and work the big deals. It's
[54:15] Speaker 3: like do the little things really really well? That is
[54:19] Speaker 3: how they're going to be able to judge you early on.
[54:22] Speaker 2: Good advice And our final question, what do you know
[54:25] Speaker 2: about the world of investing today? You wish you knew
[54:29] Speaker 2: thirty five or so years ago when you were first
[54:31] Speaker 2: starting out.
[54:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it goes back to the when I
[54:36] Speaker 3: start I first started learning those lessons of don't pay
[54:39] Speaker 3: attention to the noise, pay attention to what really matters,
[54:43] Speaker 3: so you know earlier on. It's hard not to get
[54:45] Speaker 3: emotional about investing sometimes, it's a hard even not to
[54:49] Speaker 3: get completely kind of you know you and I watch
[54:52] Speaker 3: for this in RPMs, like pms can fall in love
[54:55] Speaker 3: sometimes even with companies, stocks and even management teams that
[54:59] Speaker 3: ability to now say hey, and all these cases be objective.
[55:03] Speaker 3: Tell remind yourself, be good at knowing what you don't know,
[55:07] Speaker 3: Take emotion off, focus on what really should matter, not
[55:10] Speaker 3: all the noise that's surrounding it.
[55:12] Speaker 2: So interesting, jose thank you for being so generous with
[55:16] Speaker 2: your time. We have been speaking with jose Manaiah. He's
[55:19] Speaker 2: global head of B and Y Investments and Wealth, managing
[55:23] Speaker 2: two point two trillion dollars. If you enjoy this conversation, well,
[55:28] Speaker 2: be sure and check out any of the five hundred
[55:30] Speaker 2: and fifty we've done over the past eleven years. You
[55:34] Speaker 2: can find those at Bloomberg iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever
[55:40] Speaker 2: you get your podcasts from. Be sure to check out
[55:43] Speaker 2: my new book How Not to Invest The ideas, numbers,
[55:48] Speaker 2: and behaviors that destroy wealth and how to avoid them
[55:51] Speaker 2: How Not to Invest at your favorite bookseller. I would
[55:55] Speaker 2: be remiss if I do not thank the crack team
[55:57] Speaker 2: that helps put these conversations together each week. And I
[56:01] Speaker 2: really mean this. Alexis Noriega and Anna Luke are my producers.
[56:05] Speaker 2: Sean Russo is my researcher. Sage Bauman is the head
[56:10] Speaker 2: of podcasts at Bloomberg. I'm Barry Retaults. You've been listening
[56:14] Speaker 2: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

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