# Brighton demolish Arsenal_ Man City are top _ Spurs lose again(M4A_128K)

An episode of [Footbal Beyond the Pitch](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/6821032841), 21 Oct 2026, 1 h 22 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/75863314/brighton_demolish_arsenal_man_city_are_top_spurs_lose_again_m4a_128k.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:03] Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the tifo football podcast brought to
[0:07] Speaker 1: you by ea sports fc 27 today i'm joined by
[0:11] Speaker 1: reuben pinder i'm in a different chair yeah how does
[0:13] Speaker 1: it feel um yeah weird do you like it yeah
[0:17] Speaker 1: okay it's nice because i don't have to do this
[0:19] Speaker 1: when i answer your questions all the time as i
[0:21] Speaker 1: do when i'm sat over there weird but nice yeah
[0:23] Speaker 1: it's good okay He's felt that before.
[0:25] Speaker 2: Kaya Kynak.
[0:26] Speaker 3: The way Ruben was, it looked like you were lifting
[0:28] Speaker 3: your leg up to let a little fart out, I think,
[0:30] Speaker 3: out the side. That's kind of the posture, I would say. Well,
[0:32] Speaker 3: what a grotesque start.
[0:34] Speaker 1: Now, a lot of people complained that we talked mainly
[0:36] Speaker 1: about poo in Ring for Analysis on Saturday's episode, but
[0:38] Speaker 1: we've already there. We're already there with the poo.
[0:41] Speaker 2: Particles, at least. With farts. Now, speaking of farts, he's
[0:44] Speaker 2: German football correspondent for The Athletic. It's Seb Stafford-Bloor. And
[0:47] Speaker 2: I'm Joe Devine. All right, how's it going? It's going well.
[0:49] Speaker 1: Plus Steve Hankey's here. I told you not to mew.
[0:54] Speaker 2: That was meant to be a fart. That was meant
[0:56] Speaker 2: to be a fart. You know, the sort of curious ones.
[0:57] Speaker 2: You're like.
[0:58] Speaker 1: That's the same noise that you make when you mew.
[1:01] Speaker 1: I was going to do seagull, but then I started
[1:03] Speaker 1: to fart. Oh, God.
[1:05] Speaker 2: Scroogey. Okay.
[1:07] Speaker 1: Something definitely got cut and it was two people here
[1:10] Speaker 1: making fart noises. We do not need that. Now, what
[1:13] Speaker 1: did we talk about on today's show? Well, we start
[1:15] Speaker 1: on the South Coast to discuss Brighton's fantastic victory over Arsenal,
[1:19] Speaker 1: but inevitably we end up talking about seagulls trying to
[1:22] Speaker 1: steal potato-based snacks.
[1:23] Speaker 2: That's right. We do talk about that. We also question football.
[1:26] Speaker 1: What animal arsenal would be if Brighton are indeed seagulls?
[1:29] Speaker 1: We don't really land on an answer there, do we?
[1:31] Speaker 1: I think we do, but it's not very satisfactory. I
[1:33] Speaker 1: thought my giraffe shout deserved more attention.
[1:35] Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, I didn't.
[1:42] Speaker 1: Did Brighton's tactical gamble pay off? And should other teams
[1:45] Speaker 1: roll the dice like this against the Gunners? Well, we
[1:47] Speaker 1: discussed that too. We speak about Fabian Herzler's calculated comments
[1:50] Speaker 1: in press conferences. I attempt some of these to rile
[1:53] Speaker 1: Seb up. That's very exciting. We play a little game,
[1:55] Speaker 1: don't we? Where you see right through the game to
[1:59] Speaker 1: the vicious comment that I intended. Then we play the Rondo.
[2:02] Speaker 1: Very exciting Rondo. Not very competitive. Worth saying that. Not
[2:06] Speaker 1: at all competitive. but an exciting rondo nonetheless. After the rondo,
[2:10] Speaker 1: we speak about the goal fest that was Man City-Sundland.
[2:13] Speaker 1: Brian Robbie scoring a hat-trick through the City defence, not
[2:17] Speaker 1: enough to secure a point for the Black Cats. I
[2:20] Speaker 1: left a pause there because I assumed Steve was going
[2:22] Speaker 1: to mew. Thank you for not mewing, Steve. Spurs enter
[2:27] Speaker 1: the international break at the Premier League's bottom. But were
[2:29] Speaker 1: there any signs of hope for the fans of the
[2:32] Speaker 1: Lily Whites?
[2:33] Speaker 2: At the Premier League's bottom feels very different to saying
[2:35] Speaker 2: at the bottom of the Premier League. Goodness me.
[2:38] Speaker 1: And then we come to an end with ein kleines
[2:41] Speaker 1: bisschen of Bundesliga.
[2:42] Speaker 2: Is that right, Seb? Can you read that for me
[2:43] Speaker 2: in German? Ein kleiner bisschen of Bundesliga? Yeah, you wouldn't
[2:47] Speaker 2: say Kleinambition. What would you say? Because that's like kind
[2:50] Speaker 2: of saying the same thing. So you just say ein
[2:51] Speaker 2: bisschen Bundesliga. A bit of Bundesliga. Ein bisschen... Otherwise you're
[2:55] Speaker 2: saying a small bit of Bundesliga. It's not really... It's
[2:58] Speaker 2: a tautology. Right. Ein bisschen of Bundesliga. Ein bisschen Bundesliga.
[3:02] Speaker 2: Ein bisschen Bundesliga. They don't have of in German. No,
[3:05] Speaker 2: you can just use the, you just roll straight into it.
[3:07] Speaker 1: I translated directly a little morsel, which I guess is
[3:10] Speaker 1: where the repetition comes in.
[3:12] Speaker 2: Yeah. Morsels are never big. A little, little. Germans wouldn't
[3:15] Speaker 2: be that floral with the.
[3:17] Speaker 1: Anyway, on Thursday, I'm joined by Kaya, Alex Barker and
[3:19] Speaker 1: Colin Miller. There's a ring for analysis out on Saturday.
[3:21] Speaker 2: Which is just audio. A really great one. It's very good.
[3:24] Speaker 1: It's got Seb on that one. It's a very special guest.
[3:25] Speaker 1: And there's no live stream on Sunday, of course, because
[3:27] Speaker 1: it's international break. So don't look out for that.
[3:29] Speaker 2: Well, there we go. I think that's everything, Steve, isn't it?
[3:32] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[3:33] Speaker 2: OK, enjoy the show.
[3:43] Speaker 1: Well, where else to begin, of course, than Brighton 3.
[3:48] Speaker 1: Nil Arsenal, goodness me, the Premier League champions, humbled on
[3:51] Speaker 1: the south coast as Brighton and Hove Albion beat them
[3:54] Speaker 1: emphatically with uncharacteristic defensive errors. defining Arsenal's overall performance. Now,
[3:59] Speaker 1: Brighton enter the international break third in the Premier League
[4:01] Speaker 1: and current top scorers with 16 goals in just five
[4:05] Speaker 1: games after the game Mikel Arteta. You look confused, Kaya.
[4:09] Speaker 2: I'm upset. Oh, right.
[4:11] Speaker 1: Is your confused face the same as your upset face?
[4:13] Speaker 1: I guess I found that out now, yeah.
[4:14] Speaker 2: You look like this, you'll be going... I think I
[4:16] Speaker 2: started off angry. A furrowed brow. Yeah, a furrowed brow
[4:20] Speaker 2: of despair.
[4:21] Speaker 4: Yeah, okay.
[4:22] Speaker 2: That's okay.
[4:22] Speaker 1: Well, Mikel Arteta was similarly despairing. He said after the
[4:26] Speaker 1: game he was, quote, extremely disappointed.
[4:29] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[4:30] Speaker 1: But first of all, we have to congratulate Brighton for
[4:32] Speaker 1: the victory. He said they deserve it. They were the
[4:34] Speaker 1: better team. He continued, we didn't respect any principle of
[4:38] Speaker 1: play that you have to get out of those man-to-man situations,
[4:40] Speaker 1: which put us always on the back foot. So it
[4:43] Speaker 1: was very difficult to control the game. That's what Mikel
[4:44] Speaker 1: Arteta said. And of course, for Arsenal, it's four wins
[4:47] Speaker 1: from five games. They go into the international break second
[4:50] Speaker 1: and three points behind. 100% record. Manchester City, after their
[4:54] Speaker 1: 5-3 victory over Sunderland on Sunday. Kaya, bit of a
[4:58] Speaker 1: surprise this one. Perhaps not that Brighton won, but that
[5:01] Speaker 1: Brighton won as, quote, emphatically as they did.
[5:04] Speaker 2: Yeah. What happened? Arsenal got pecked.
[5:07] Speaker 1: Right.
[5:07] Speaker 2: By the seagulls. By the seagulls, yeah. Vicious pecking. It
[5:10] Speaker 2: was vicious. They arrived on the south coast with chips.
[5:13] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[5:13] Speaker 2: No one had informed them not to do that.
[5:15] Speaker 3: I saw a seagull once take an entire ice cream
[5:18] Speaker 3: from someone's hand.
[5:19] Speaker 4: Really?
[5:19] Speaker 2: With the cone as well. It was very impressive. You've
[5:21] Speaker 2: got to be... So I grew up on the coast.
[5:23] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[5:24] Speaker 1: And you've got to be firm with seagulls. In fact,
[5:26] Speaker 1: I was on the south coast on Friday. And I
[5:29] Speaker 1: had some, well, they weren't chips. They were smashed potatoes
[5:33] Speaker 1: because that's just the kind of class of person I am. Delicious, salty,
[5:36] Speaker 1: smashed potatoes. And there was a baby seagull and a
[5:39] Speaker 1: mother seagull hovering around. And I made sure they knew
[5:44] Speaker 1: with my body language that they were to get fucked.
[5:47] Speaker 1: And all of my potatoes were absolutely fine. They were
[5:49] Speaker 1: all for me to eat and I ate them all.
[5:51] Speaker 3: This does sound a bit like Michael Arteta's sort of
[5:53] Speaker 3: pretty much teen talk.
[5:54] Speaker 2: Right.
[5:54] Speaker 3: All the metaphors that he uses, I can see that
[5:56] Speaker 3: being done.
[5:57] Speaker 2: He loves body language. He does love it. Hiding chips
[5:59] Speaker 2: in his players' pockets. Yes, yes, yes. As they get
[6:01] Speaker 2: off the bus and the seagulls come down and get them.
[6:03] Speaker 2: Encouraging problem solving. Yeah, yeah. Ha, ha, ha. What happened
[6:06] Speaker 2: though on the game?
[6:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, Arsenal turned up in good form, probably expecting to
[6:11] Speaker 3: win with some comfort. But Brighton were in better form,
[6:16] Speaker 3: I think, at the minute. They played really, really well.
[6:19] Speaker 3: They played well against Man United just before. And they
[6:23] Speaker 3: came into this game with a clear game plan as
[6:25] Speaker 3: to how they wanted to topple Arsenal, which was press
[6:28] Speaker 3: and press and press and press and press. And they
[6:30] Speaker 3: did not stop for 90 minutes.
[6:32] Speaker 2: And normally.
[6:34] Speaker 3: The difficulty with that strategy is A, you have to
[6:36] Speaker 3: be really brave to do it. which Brighton were, and
[6:38] Speaker 3: they did it really, really well. You have to be
[6:40] Speaker 3: really coordinated to do it as well, which again, they were,
[6:43] Speaker 3: which is impressive from Herzl as well, given that they
[6:45] Speaker 3: had quite a lot of turnover in the summer. There
[6:47] Speaker 3: are a lot of players going out and quite a
[6:48] Speaker 3: few coming in as well. So the way they've been
[6:51] Speaker 3: able to establish those relationships so quickly is really impressive.
[6:54] Speaker 3: And then also, when I say brave, you need to
[6:57] Speaker 3: be coordinated.
[6:59] Speaker 1: They very much are like seagulls in that sense. I
[7:02] Speaker 1: know we were joking before, but come to think of it, yeah,
[7:05] Speaker 1: they peck, they're aggressive, I mean, they do act in
[7:08] Speaker 1: groups as well.
[7:09] Speaker 2: They coordinate.
[7:10] Speaker 1: Sometimes you'll see one seagull distracting the prey while the
[7:13] Speaker 1: other steals the chips of the prey.
[7:15] Speaker 2: Yeah. You know?
[7:16] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[7:16] Speaker 2: Very impressive. And Arsenal got their chips stolen well and truly.
[7:20] Speaker 2: If Arsenal were an animal.
[7:21] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[7:22] Speaker 2: What animal would they be? Good question. Obviously, at the moment,
[7:26] Speaker 2: they'd be quite a big animal. Yeah.
[7:28] Speaker 1: But maybe one that is stupid enough to get pecked
[7:31] Speaker 1: by some seagulls.
[7:32] Speaker 2: I mean... That sounds like a human, to be fair.
[7:35] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[7:35] Speaker 2: Are Arsenal a human?
[7:36] Speaker 3: Arsenal.
[7:37] Speaker 2: Are Arsenal the human of the Premier League? That doesn't
[7:40] Speaker 2: sound right. That doesn't sound good.
[7:41] Speaker 4: No.
[7:41] Speaker 2: I don't know. Any ideas, Sam? Like a physical one. No?
[7:44] Speaker 2: You haven't got any ideas, have you? No, I feel
[7:46] Speaker 2: like if I were to express them, somehow that would backfire.
[7:49] Speaker 2: I'd say something bad, the internet would dislike it, and
[7:53] Speaker 2: my week would become a lot longer than it needs
[7:54] Speaker 2: to be.
[7:55] Speaker 1: I think they might be sort of like a rhinoceros,
[7:57] Speaker 1: you know, in the sense that they're incredibly formidable, and
[8:00] Speaker 1: yet also sort of being hunted to extinction.
[8:04] Speaker 2: Well, no, because the rhinoceros, well, sure, that bit, but
[8:07] Speaker 2: don't they kind of need a seagull-like... pal to clean
[8:13] Speaker 2: their backs they have that symbiotic relationship.
[8:16] Speaker 1: So it doesn't really work here I don't think no
[8:17] Speaker 1: that doesn't work a hippo no because again similarly they
[8:20] Speaker 1: have the friendly birds what kind of animal do birds hate.
[8:25] Speaker 2: Humans. Humans. Do you know what? I think Arsenal are
[8:28] Speaker 2: the humans of the Premier League. Yeah. I didn't like
[8:30] Speaker 2: to say it, but I think it might be true.
[8:32] Speaker 4: When I was in America during the World Cup, I
[8:34] Speaker 4: got shat on by a bird for the first time
[8:36] Speaker 4: in my life.
[8:36] Speaker 2: An American bird?
[8:37] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[8:38] Speaker 2: What kind of bird was it? Just a dirty New
[8:39] Speaker 2: York pigeon. A pigeon?
[8:41] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[8:41] Speaker 1: Wow.
[8:42] Speaker 2: And I imagine that's how the Arsenal defenders felt during
[8:44] Speaker 2: this game. Whereabouts on your body? Kind of. upper torso,
[8:48] Speaker 2: shoulder down. So it missed the head. Missed the head.
[8:51] Speaker 2: That's pretty lucky, I would say.
[8:53] Speaker 3: I got in... I was in Dublin. I was just
[8:55] Speaker 3: coming out of the Guinness Factory. I'd been for a
[8:56] Speaker 3: tour there.
[8:57] Speaker 2: That's good fun, that.
[8:58] Speaker 3: It was great fun until I got pooed on by
[9:00] Speaker 3: a seagull on my face. But it managed to like...
[9:03] Speaker 3: hit my sunglasses oh but just like go inside the
[9:07] Speaker 3: sunglasses so that the gap in between my eye and
[9:09] Speaker 3: the sunglasses so it could have been blind you didn't
[9:12] Speaker 3: do it.
[9:12] Speaker 2: You're quite you're quite an accident prone person yeah i
[9:16] Speaker 2: i don't know you all that well yet sort of
[9:18] Speaker 2: most of if i was asked to describe you or
[9:20] Speaker 2: lean on anecdotes like that and the sunburns i've ever
[9:24] Speaker 2: seen it was i really loved it could have been
[9:26] Speaker 2: blinding It could have been blinding. Yeah.
[9:30] Speaker 3: I also got mildly sunburned again on holiday last week.
[9:33] Speaker 2: No, you didn't.
[9:35] Speaker 1: I did.
[9:35] Speaker 2: But it wasn't as bad this time. You careless fool. Yeah.
[9:38] Speaker 2: I fell asleep on the beach again. Oh, my God.
[9:40] Speaker 2: Stop falling asleep on the beach. The first time, I
[9:43] Speaker 2: feel sympathy. The second time, I lose a bit of
[9:45] Speaker 2: respect for you.
[9:45] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[9:46] Speaker 3: I looked at myself and I was like, I cannot
[9:47] Speaker 3: believe you've done this again.
[9:49] Speaker 2: Yeah. The shower afterwards wasn't nice. He's done it again. Yeah, exactly.
[9:53] Speaker 2: I'm very disappointed in you. I'm disappointed in myself.
[9:56] Speaker 1: Well, when my father put down his latest dog, he
[10:00] Speaker 1: went to the park afterwards that they used to walk
[10:03] Speaker 1: in and he sat on a bench and cried. And
[10:05] Speaker 1: then a seagull, not a seagull, a pigeon pooed on
[10:08] Speaker 1: his head. And he said, that's the dog. And then
[10:11] Speaker 1: he stopped crying and was happy. So sometimes a seagull
[10:15] Speaker 1: or any kind of bird pooing on your head.
[10:17] Speaker 2: Supposed to be good luck, isn't it?
[10:18] Speaker 1: Can be a good thing. In the case of Arsenal,
[10:21] Speaker 1: as Ruben just mentioned, also perhaps falling asleep on the beach. Yeah.
[10:26] Speaker 1: Their game was riddled, as Arteta mentioned, with technical errors.
[10:29] Speaker 1: Was it just a bad day, do you think? Or
[10:31] Speaker 1: are they in fact terrible players, which we haven't noticed?
[10:33] Speaker 1: I don't think they're terrible players.
[10:35] Speaker 3: I think there was a thing where Mikel Arteta had
[10:40] Speaker 3: filled a lineup going into this game that I think
[10:41] Speaker 3: most people would have described, apart from William Saliba being
[10:44] Speaker 3: out as Arsenal's first choice lineup and the arrival of
[10:47] Speaker 3: Bruno Guimaraes in the summer. Most people expect there's going
[10:49] Speaker 3: to be a double pivot with him and Declan Rice.
[10:52] Speaker 3: And Bruno Guimaraes and Declan Rice is great when they're
[10:54] Speaker 3: looking at the opposition goal. When they've got their back
[10:56] Speaker 3: to play, they do have some, I think, weaknesses comparatively.
[10:59] Speaker 3: Their technical level isn't as high. It's really good, but
[11:01] Speaker 3: it's not as high as I think other players in
[11:04] Speaker 3: the Arsenal squad. And so up until this game, Miles
[11:07] Speaker 3: Ouskelly has been partnering Declan Rice in the midfield. And
[11:10] Speaker 3: that's worked quite well for Arsenal because they kind of
[11:12] Speaker 3: offset each other's skills. And Miles Ouskelly reminds me a bit,
[11:15] Speaker 3: I think some other people have said this already, but
[11:17] Speaker 3: of Remember Moussa Dembele, the Spurs one, or as far
[11:20] Speaker 3: as I'm concerned, the Fulham one?
[11:22] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[11:23] Speaker 3: And his ability to sort of resist the press and
[11:26] Speaker 3: his strength and his kind of bravery when it came
[11:29] Speaker 3: to kind of baiting the press and then just jinking
[11:30] Speaker 3: away from it. Lewis Skelly's got that in his locker
[11:33] Speaker 3: and Bruno Guimaraes doesn't have that to the same extent.
[11:36] Speaker 3: But I understand why Bruno played because he was.
[11:38] Speaker 2: And he cost £ 70 million. And he cost £ 70 million.
[11:40] Speaker 2: And Lewis Skelly is an academy kid. And they bought
[11:43] Speaker 2: him and actually were prepared to let Lewis Skelly go.
[11:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, especially don't talk about that bit. But I think
[11:48] Speaker 3: there's an interesting thing to be had there where Arsenal...
[11:51] Speaker 3: It's quite rare that teams are that brave against Arsenal.
[11:56] Speaker 3: They tend to sit off. They tend to be a
[11:58] Speaker 3: bit more passive and they don't tend to do it
[12:00] Speaker 3: as well in terms of the high press.
[12:01] Speaker 1: Sure.
[12:02] Speaker 3: So does anyone remember the last time Arsenal got beaten?
[12:04] Speaker 3: It's been quite a while, I know, but does anyone
[12:06] Speaker 3: remember that game?
[12:06] Speaker 2: It wasn't Villa.
[12:07] Speaker 3: Man United beat them last season, didn't they?
[12:10] Speaker 2: It was later than that. Well, we're not counting the
[12:15] Speaker 2: Champions League final. No, that doesn't count. Because that was
[12:17] Speaker 2: a draw. I remember they lost that quite badly. Was
[12:20] Speaker 2: it the League Cup final?
[12:21] Speaker 3: It wasn't the League Cup final. Oh, they lost that
[12:22] Speaker 3: one quite badly as well, didn't they? They always fight
[12:25] Speaker 3: on me.
[12:26] Speaker 2: It was Bournemouth. Bournemouth. Another team who ran all over you.
[12:29] Speaker 2: With Alex Scott scoring. Exactly.
[12:31] Speaker 3: And that kind of team who've got lots of legs
[12:34] Speaker 3: get after you and force you to play with your
[12:36] Speaker 3: back to I think there's kind of a little bit
[12:39] Speaker 3: of a blueprint that Fabian Hertz has stumbled across. And
[12:41] Speaker 3: then with the Bruno Gimaraes coming into midfield as well,
[12:44] Speaker 3: Arsenal didn't really have an antidote to it. And normally
[12:47] Speaker 3: when Arsenal are pressed that high, they try and go
[12:48] Speaker 3: long to avoid it. But when they did that, Brighton
[12:51] Speaker 3: had Luka Vuskovic and Pascal Strauch who were just winning
[12:54] Speaker 3: all the duels. So I don't know if it's a
[12:56] Speaker 3: long-term issue for Arsenal because I don't know how many
[12:58] Speaker 3: of those kind of games they're going to face. But
[12:59] Speaker 3: I wonder if teams will see that and think, right,
[13:01] Speaker 3: we can be more brave against Arsenal. Let's go for
[13:03] Speaker 3: it and go after them a bit more. But you
[13:05] Speaker 3: have to be really, really good, which is what Brighton want.
[13:07] Speaker 4: On that midfield partnership, it's just occurred to me that
[13:11] Speaker 4: both of.
[13:11] Speaker 2: Them are like... Excellent players. This is Guimaraes and Rice.
[13:14] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[13:15] Speaker 4: But both of them have also been moved from the
[13:18] Speaker 4: deepest midfield role to a more advanced one. Rice, when
[13:22] Speaker 4: he first joined and there was seemingly the plan to
[13:24] Speaker 4: play Havertz as one of the eights and Rice as six.
[13:27] Speaker 4: And then that got reshuffled, hence the Zibamendi signing. And
[13:31] Speaker 4: at Newcastle, Bruno Guimaraes got pushed to a more advanced
[13:34] Speaker 4: role and Tenali was the one tucking in as the sixth.
[13:37] Speaker 4: And I guess that was more to make use of Guimaraes,
[13:41] Speaker 4: which is a funny word to say, attacking qualities rather
[13:44] Speaker 4: than defensive deficiencies. But if they are both kind of
[13:48] Speaker 4: slightly more attack-minded, box-to-box, like to carry the ball players,
[13:54] Speaker 4: whether this will become a bit of a blueprint for
[13:56] Speaker 4: how to nullify their early build-up.
[13:58] Speaker 2: Who's the distributor in that pairing? That's the fair question.
[14:02] Speaker 2: Because if you have Zubin Mendy in there, sure. Ruben
[14:06] Speaker 2: just mentioned Tenali at Newcastle. If you're working the ball
[14:09] Speaker 2: out from... Who isn't really much of that either. Not really.
[14:12] Speaker 2: He's quite lateral at times. But then if you're trying
[14:15] Speaker 2: to play from deep and you're playing against a pressing side,
[14:18] Speaker 2: who's comfortable receiving the ball with their back to the
[14:21] Speaker 2: play and then playing out? Mars Lewis Skelly. Exactly that.
[14:24] Speaker 2: Or Zubin Mendy. I think you'd want him in there.
[14:27] Speaker 2: So that's a tricky one. Has anyone started calling them
[14:31] Speaker 2: Gima Rice yet? I feel something. They haven't. They haven't?
[14:34] Speaker 2: But they should have done. But is this the first
[14:35] Speaker 2: time they've started together in a prem?
[14:37] Speaker 1: Yes.
[14:37] Speaker 2: So there you go. That's time. You've coined it. Gima Rice.
[14:40] Speaker 2: Gima Rice.
[14:41] Speaker 1: Gima Rice. Gima Rice. They're not quite good in a
[14:45] Speaker 1: double pebble.
[14:46] Speaker 2: Or Rice Rice.
[14:47] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[14:47] Speaker 2: Rice Rice Bruno. Okay, well, we're going to pick up
[14:51] Speaker 2: on a bunch of things that Kaya said, actually.
[14:53] Speaker 1: First off, Ruben, let's come to you. Now, John, who's
[14:56] Speaker 1: absent today, he made his Did You Notice video this week,
[15:00] Speaker 1: which incidentally publishes on the Athletic social media channel. So
[15:03] Speaker 1: if you want to go and watch it, you can do.
[15:05] Speaker 1: But the thing he focused on was that actually came
[15:06] Speaker 1: from this game. It was about Brighton's press that Kaya
[15:10] Speaker 1: was just referring to. He called it a gamble. So
[15:12] Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious because Kaya's kind of set it
[15:14] Speaker 1: up as a possibility that other teams could learn from
[15:17] Speaker 1: this blueprint and perhaps Brighton have in and of themselves.
[15:20] Speaker 1: John thinks it's also a bit of a gamble, though.
[15:22] Speaker 2: What does he mean? Well, as he....
[15:26] Speaker 4: As he said many times, every tactic involves a trade-off, right?
[15:31] Speaker 4: If you lean into doing one thing, it means you
[15:33] Speaker 4: do less of a different thing.
[15:34] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[15:34] Speaker 4: Or you just move risk around, I suppose. So, you know,
[15:38] Speaker 4: if you park the bus and play in a low block,
[15:40] Speaker 4: then you risk not scoring any goals, but whatever. So
[15:44] Speaker 4: the risk here, I guess, is that what John was
[15:46] Speaker 4: explaining to us yesterday was that quite often teams will
[15:51] Speaker 4: try to press quite aggressively when Arsenal are building from
[15:54] Speaker 4: their goalkeeper.
[15:55] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
[15:56] Speaker 4: And then once Arsenal get through that first wave of pressure,
[15:59] Speaker 4: the opposition will kind of accept, they'll kind of cede
[16:03] Speaker 4: control and be like, okay, fair enough, they got through that.
[16:05] Speaker 1: Once they're in settled possession. Settled possession is the term
[16:07] Speaker 1: he likes to use, yeah. And then they'll maybe drop
[16:10] Speaker 1: off and form something of a mid-block and wait for
[16:13] Speaker 1: other opportunities to pounce.
[16:14] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[16:15] Speaker 4: But Brighton seemingly just kind of did it relentlessly, constantly.
[16:20] Speaker 4: And that took Arsenal by surprise. You could see, like,
[16:23] Speaker 4: I think in the first five minutes of the game,
[16:25] Speaker 4: Raya has... gone he's tried to go semi long to
[16:28] Speaker 4: like a fullback california timber but he's gone out of
[16:31] Speaker 4: play he's done that two or three times in the
[16:32] Speaker 4: first five ten minutes yeah and then you and then
[16:35] Speaker 4: you can sense the atmosphere kind of heats up and
[16:37] Speaker 4: the arsenal players start to not panic sure but they
[16:40] Speaker 4: are surprised at how much they're being pressed kind of
[16:44] Speaker 4: in their own third or in the middle of the
[16:45] Speaker 4: pitch because they're not used to it and um like
[16:47] Speaker 4: i say i it was a 3 p.m kickoff so
[16:49] Speaker 4: i wasn't able to watch the game in a full 90.
[16:52] Speaker 4: But from the highlights, it seemed like everything was just
[16:54] Speaker 4: relentless pressing. And the distances between the Brighton players were
[16:58] Speaker 4: always so good. Nobody was ever doing it too far
[17:00] Speaker 4: away from anybody else. So it was so effective in
[17:04] Speaker 4: if the first guy doesn't get to the ball, then
[17:06] Speaker 4: the guy receiving it will be under so much pressure. And...
[17:10] Speaker 4: What's more impressive about this is that Brighton are missing, like,
[17:14] Speaker 4: as always at Brighton, key players leave. You know, Welbeck left,
[17:18] Speaker 4: Routere is injured, Mitoma's injured, or Routere came back but
[17:21] Speaker 4: has been missing.
[17:23] Speaker 2: Belaber left.
[17:24] Speaker 4: Belaber left. They were playing, they arrested Yalkue because he's
[17:29] Speaker 4: only 5'7. Van Hecker. Yeah, well, Van Hecker left.
[17:32] Speaker 1: They arrested him because he's only 5'7. Yeah, and they
[17:35] Speaker 1: played Chema Andres. That doesn't seem like a fair reason
[17:37] Speaker 1: to arrest someone because they're short. When you play in Arsenal.
[17:40] Speaker 1: You won the physicality.
[17:41] Speaker 2: Sorry, when you said they rested, you mean they subbed him? No, no.
[17:44] Speaker 2: They rotated him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you said rested him,
[17:47] Speaker 2: I was like, they've rested him because he's short, so
[17:49] Speaker 2: he's tired. It's like a discriminatory action. No, that's not
[17:53] Speaker 2: what I mean. He's 5'7. He'll be too tired to
[17:55] Speaker 2: play the next game. We must rest him. They rotated
[17:58] Speaker 2: him for tactical reasons. He's not knackered.
[18:01] Speaker 4: And it worked because, you know, like I said, every
[18:03] Speaker 4: time the ball went long, they got Vuskovic at the back.
[18:05] Speaker 2: Yeah. And Arsenal.
[18:07] Speaker 1: So the trade, the gamble here, though, the trade-off is
[18:09] Speaker 1: that Okay, it's surprising, but if Arsenal manage to play
[18:14] Speaker 1: through that continued pressure, then they're way more likely to score, right?
[18:18] Speaker 1: Because they're much more open. And it's a tiring thing
[18:21] Speaker 1: to do. Teams will often press in spurts of intensity
[18:28] Speaker 1: and then they'll have 10 minutes of more passive play
[18:30] Speaker 1: and then go really aggressive again because to do that
[18:34] Speaker 1: constantly is really... really difficult especially pascal gross is just
[18:39] Speaker 1: an absolute joke like my strength.
[18:41] Speaker 4: It really pains me to pour all of this praise
[18:43] Speaker 4: on brighton but like he's 35 he runs more than
[18:46] Speaker 4: anybody else but he's not even quick right but he's
[18:49] Speaker 4: played as a 10 at 86 and at right back
[18:51] Speaker 4: over the course of his two brian stints sure and
[18:54] Speaker 4: he's just ridiculously calm and ruthless and two-footed he kind
[18:59] Speaker 4: of reminds me like He's got an Adam Lallana-esque two-footedness
[19:03] Speaker 4: about him.
[19:04] Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the prettiest Cruyff turns in football as well. Yeah, yeah.
[19:08] Speaker 2: It's quite slow, but it's very artistic.
[19:11] Speaker 4: But he runs at like the same pace constantly. He's
[19:14] Speaker 4: got one gear, but it's like just about quick enough.
[19:17] Speaker 2: Yeah. And he struts around like a kind of... Like
[19:23] Speaker 2: somebody playing... Here's the hatred coming up. No, no, no.
[19:26] Speaker 2: Struts around like... As soon as you think he is. No,
[19:29] Speaker 2: it's more praise. Shoulders up.
[19:30] Speaker 4: He's like... Like somebody playing years above their age group.
[19:33] Speaker 4: Kind of like playing with a bunch of kids, like
[19:36] Speaker 4: a dad. In a sense, he is playing years above
[19:38] Speaker 4: the age group. Well, yeah, because his midfield partners are
[19:41] Speaker 4: like 19.
[19:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. If you look at... So Ruben made the
[19:44] Speaker 2: point about sort of the physical challenge of playing this Brighton.
[19:47] Speaker 2: If you turn it around and... you're on the other
[19:50] Speaker 2: side of the ball against them and you look at, okay,
[19:52] Speaker 2: so Pascal Gross and Kema Andres is a midfield pairing.
[19:55] Speaker 2: By the way, I thought Kema Andres might have made
[19:57] Speaker 2: a really good Arsenal player last summer.
[19:59] Speaker 1: Right.
[19:59] Speaker 2: Because he's got the kind of the physicality and the
[20:01] Speaker 2: technical ability.
[20:02] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[20:03] Speaker 2: That group can cut through you with their passing pretty easily.
[20:07] Speaker 2: And so you're working hard to kind of get out
[20:08] Speaker 2: of your own zone. But also when you don't have
[20:10] Speaker 2: the ball, you're trying to shut gaps between your lines,
[20:13] Speaker 2: which they will invariably find. It must be like mentally
[20:16] Speaker 2: pretty exhausting to play against them because that's a... yeah
[20:19] Speaker 2: like it's a just looking at it it's it's really
[20:22] Speaker 2: well equipped to pick holes in any team that has
[20:24] Speaker 2: sort of chemistry problems I think.
[20:26] Speaker 1: On that point though is this a blueprint that is
[20:29] Speaker 1: followable by any other team other than Bournemouth I mean
[20:31] Speaker 1: can I mention Bournemouth were the last team to beat
[20:33] Speaker 1: Arsenal I feel like okay cool this is maybe a
[20:36] Speaker 1: way you could beat Arsenal if you surprise them doing
[20:38] Speaker 1: it but I can't imagine that many other teams being
[20:41] Speaker 1: able to do this.
[20:42] Speaker 2: No I mean I was watching it and because I
[20:44] Speaker 2: was outside England I was able to watch 90 minutes
[20:46] Speaker 2: in my when I was watching I didn't have I
[20:49] Speaker 2: wasn't thinking, oh, here's how you beat Arsenal. I think
[20:52] Speaker 2: my takeaway was Arsenal's standards are a little bit lower
[20:55] Speaker 2: than I expect them to be here. So if you
[20:56] Speaker 2: look at, okay, so the first two goals, lovely, brilliant goals,
[21:00] Speaker 2: great strikes. But then you watch the actions of several
[21:03] Speaker 2: Arsenal defenders involved and you're thinking, where's the aggression? Where's
[21:07] Speaker 2: that sort of the competitiveness that you've come to expect
[21:10] Speaker 2: in those duels wasn't there. The third goal was about
[21:13] Speaker 2: as un-Arsenal a goal to concede as possible because it's
[21:16] Speaker 2: just a very simple set piece, which Kemmer scores at
[21:18] Speaker 2: the back post. And it's just, there's no contest. He's
[21:21] Speaker 2: free on the edge of the six-yard box. And so
[21:24] Speaker 2: I don't think you're going to have coaches up and
[21:27] Speaker 2: down the country thinking, right, this is how we're going
[21:28] Speaker 2: to do it. It's going to be, how do you
[21:31] Speaker 2: compete with Arsenal? Because I think that's the key, right?
[21:34] Speaker 2: They're talented in a lot of ways, but they're also...
[21:38] Speaker 2: kind of a devil of a team in a way, right?
[21:40] Speaker 2: Like they're nasty, they're nuggety, they can play, they're disciplined,
[21:44] Speaker 2: they're defensively really, really good. They can find goals in
[21:48] Speaker 2: games where they're not playing particularly well. Like they're all
[21:50] Speaker 2: the things you needed to be for a champion. I mean,
[21:53] Speaker 2: this is sort of two gritted teeth as a compliment,
[21:56] Speaker 2: but yeah, there's no, there's no eureka moment for the
[21:59] Speaker 2: rest of the league here.
[22:00] Speaker 4: They also kind of lack really extreme pace. Arsenal, like
[22:06] Speaker 4: they have quick-ish players. Like Saka and Solace. Solace is quick.
[22:12] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[22:12] Speaker 4: Yeah, but none of them are like a solution to...
[22:16] Speaker 4: So like when they went long, you can go over
[22:19] Speaker 4: if you've got quicker, but they don't quite have attackers
[22:22] Speaker 4: with that blistering pace like, say, Martinelli had. That was
[22:24] Speaker 4: a really useful attribute that he had, whereas... now their
[22:27] Speaker 4: attacking players are all much more suited to when they
[22:30] Speaker 4: have a team penned back rather than just trying.
[22:32] Speaker 1: To go over back isn't kai habits though like suspiciously
[22:35] Speaker 1: one of the fastest forwards in.
[22:37] Speaker 2: The league maybe over a long distance.
[22:39] Speaker 1: I feel like he's sneakily he's quite languid he's got
[22:41] Speaker 1: really elegant so you think like you you see him
[22:45] Speaker 1: you see him move and you're thinking that's not very
[22:47] Speaker 1: quick because it makes it he makes it look quite
[22:49] Speaker 1: effortless i think he's one of those guys.
[22:50] Speaker 4: Didn't he have a really good chance when he like
[22:53] Speaker 4: spooned it with his right foot. Yeah, I think he
[22:56] Speaker 4: had more time than he realized. He could have taken
[22:58] Speaker 4: it on his stronger left, but he tried to just
[23:00] Speaker 4: do it on his right and then went straight into Verbruggen.
[23:02] Speaker 4: But that would have only made it 3-1.
[23:03] Speaker 2: And actually at 1-0, I think that was the Odegaard
[23:07] Speaker 2: chance where they broke really, really well. It's a great counterattack,
[23:10] Speaker 2: just missing a finish at the right point. But there
[23:13] Speaker 2: were moments for them to get back in the game.
[23:15] Speaker 2: But it also seemed as if once they got to 2-0,
[23:18] Speaker 2: it was a, we've got a 3-0 international break. A
[23:21] Speaker 2: three-week international break. The game's kind of lost. And I
[23:24] Speaker 2: feel like Arteta's... We've won our last seven. Well, yeah.
[23:27] Speaker 2: And I also think Arteta's the kind of guy who
[23:29] Speaker 2: every now and again probably doesn't hate it when his
[23:32] Speaker 2: team drops a bad performance because it means he can
[23:34] Speaker 2: get into a few players and make life uncomfortable and
[23:37] Speaker 2: create a little bit of tension. Reaffirm the Fogina standards.
[23:41] Speaker 2: A little bit because he's... Everything we know about him and,
[23:44] Speaker 2: you know, Atletico published some great pieces about his diligence
[23:47] Speaker 2: and how meticulous he is. He enjoys challenging players and
[23:52] Speaker 2: a bad result like this where people are trying to
[23:54] Speaker 2: write them off. Come on, that's kind of catnip to
[23:56] Speaker 2: someone like Arteta, surely.
[23:58] Speaker 1: Well, also, it's worth saying, I mean, I'll reread a
[24:00] Speaker 1: bit of that quote I read at the beginning after
[24:02] Speaker 1: the game. Obviously, he was extremely disappointed.
[24:04] Speaker 2: He said.
[24:04] Speaker 1: We didn't respect any principle of play that you have
[24:08] Speaker 1: to get out of those man-to-man situations, which put us
[24:10] Speaker 1: on the back foot always. So, you know, referring to
[24:12] Speaker 1: Ruben's point about the pressing, it doesn't seem like it
[24:16] Speaker 1: is a scenario where Mikel Arteta has to go back
[24:19] Speaker 1: to the drawing board and rewrite the system. It seems
[24:22] Speaker 1: more like he believes that all of the... they have
[24:27] Speaker 1: all the structures in place in order to get through
[24:30] Speaker 1: situations like.
[24:30] Speaker 2: That, but the players didn't play well. It's a pretty
[24:32] Speaker 2: good quote, Joe, to talk about they didn't respect the principles,
[24:36] Speaker 2: because I think that's absolutely right. I think that they were...
[24:38] Speaker 2: This is a bit of a proper football manner.
[24:41] Speaker 1: Do it.
[24:42] Speaker 2: Say it. But they got out-battled.
[24:45] Speaker 3: Right.
[24:45] Speaker 2: They were out-battled. Out-thought and out-thought. Out-thought and out-thought. They
[24:49] Speaker 2: weren't out-thought. No, they weren't out-thought. They were just out-battled.
[24:52] Speaker 2: It was just... There was a few percentage points down
[24:57] Speaker 2: on what you'd expect from them. Yeah, fair enough. And
[24:59] Speaker 2: also Brighton are really good. Brighton are really good. And
[25:02] Speaker 2: this is not like... I sometimes feel like we're still
[25:04] Speaker 2: stuck in that trap that you had in the 90s where...
[25:07] Speaker 2: a team like Arsenal shouldn't lose to a team like
[25:10] Speaker 2: Brighton therefore when they do you have to re-evaluate everything
[25:12] Speaker 2: it's just not the case anymore Brighton are taking names
[25:15] Speaker 2: yeah but you know Brentford just smashed Chelsea on Friday
[25:18] Speaker 2: night as well on that note.
[25:19] Speaker 4: It's a hat trick for Herzl of home wins against
[25:22] Speaker 4: the reigning Premier League champions I'm taking this from Andy
[25:25] Speaker 4: Naylor's piece across each of his three seasons having been
[25:28] Speaker 4: Man City in 24 and Liverpool in the March of this.
[25:30] Speaker 2: Year yeah Very cool. Hell of a statistic.
[25:32] Speaker 1: Also, I like it because it didn't hurt to get
[25:35] Speaker 1: really pissed off after the last Arsenal game last season
[25:38] Speaker 1: where he said there's only one team that came here
[25:40] Speaker 1: to play football. So being able to back it up
[25:42] Speaker 1: a year later is quite cool.
[25:44] Speaker 4: I do find it funny and slightly immature when managers
[25:47] Speaker 4: get that Cassie in press conferences but like he did
[25:49] Speaker 4: have a point that was one of the biggest that
[25:51] Speaker 4: was one of the all-time time wasters wasn't it right as.
[25:54] Speaker 2: A hazard is this guy like he has that in
[25:57] Speaker 2: his personality and he always has done from let's do
[25:59] Speaker 2: her so because it was we'll jump ahead is what
[26:01] Speaker 2: it was one of the questions because but simply because
[26:03] Speaker 2: I have friends and acquaintances who support big six teams
[26:08] Speaker 2: who were talking about her so love this weekend you
[26:10] Speaker 2: know who kind of you where you think I actually
[26:13] Speaker 2: maybe come next summer and Maybe he's a name on
[26:16] Speaker 2: the lips of big six fans. I don't know.
[26:19] Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like premature to me on the
[26:22] Speaker 1: basis that.
[26:25] Speaker 2: He's 23.
[26:25] Speaker 1: He's 21 years old or whatever he is. He struggled
[26:29] Speaker 1: at times last season with Brighton. I'm very happy that
[26:32] Speaker 1: he seems to be doing well. And it's exciting for
[26:34] Speaker 1: the league that Brighton are so good this summer. But also,
[26:36] Speaker 1: it's partly because of that temper. Yeah. And like the
[26:41] Speaker 1: way that he, he reminds me in that sense, a
[26:43] Speaker 1: little bit of Ruben Amorim in that, you know, one
[26:47] Speaker 1: of the things, one of the criticisms you could make
[26:48] Speaker 1: of Ruben Amorim, despite being very entertaining, was that maybe
[26:51] Speaker 1: he handled the media wrong when he got into a
[26:54] Speaker 1: bigger position at a club like Manchester United. Can you
[26:57] Speaker 1: imagine Fabian Herzler managing a big six team?
[27:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I think he's, so his path through the game,
[27:05] Speaker 2: obviously St. Pauli to Brighton is, There's not a lot
[27:09] Speaker 2: of exposure to big club environments or big media markets there.
[27:13] Speaker 1: No.
[27:13] Speaker 2: Even when he was at St. Pauli.
[27:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, you first you get Seb Stafford-Blood and then you
[27:17] Speaker 1: get Liam Tharm and both of those things.
[27:19] Speaker 2: Are pretty straightforward. This is not being Paxman, right? These
[27:23] Speaker 2: are friendly people. Yeah. But in terms of his ability
[27:28] Speaker 2: to grow into a role, to develop, yeah, absolutely. He's
[27:31] Speaker 2: technically capable of doing it. Do you think he's got
[27:34] Speaker 2: the personality for it? I think it's one of those
[27:37] Speaker 2: where you just have to wait for him to do it.
[27:39] Speaker 2: So he's combustible. When in his first season as a
[27:43] Speaker 2: senior head coach, I think he was yellow carded seven
[27:46] Speaker 2: times by February. Yeah, it kept happening, didn't it? Yeah,
[27:51] Speaker 2: there was actually a DFB-Pokal game against Fortuna Dusseldorf where
[27:55] Speaker 2: he got sent off and... he had to go into St.
[27:59] Speaker 2: Paddy's quite small grounds. He just went in with the fans.
[28:02] Speaker 2: They scored a very late equalizer in that game and
[28:04] Speaker 2: he was sort of celebrating among the fans and sort
[28:06] Speaker 2: of trying to give it to the opposition fans on
[28:08] Speaker 2: the other side of the ground. He's a very entertaining
[28:10] Speaker 2: guy in its passion for the game. But he's a
[28:13] Speaker 2: sort of person who, he's a little bit Marmite-ish because
[28:18] Speaker 2: he can be quite bullish. So if you have a
[28:21] Speaker 2: bad result as a big team and there's that mandatory
[28:24] Speaker 2: period of introspection afterwards where everyone wants to analyze it,
[28:27] Speaker 2: He's the kind of guy I think that would be
[28:29] Speaker 2: quite matter of fact about what he thinks and that
[28:31] Speaker 2: could put some noses out of joint. But then it's
[28:35] Speaker 2: not fair to judge him until he does it because
[28:38] Speaker 2: he's a smart enough person that he would know to
[28:41] Speaker 2: adapt himself around the scale of the challenge and the job.
[28:44] Speaker 2: So if he was to go and coach Manchester United,
[28:46] Speaker 2: for instance, that you would probably see a slightly different
[28:49] Speaker 2: Fabian Hetzler because... he has the self-awareness to adjust. And
[28:53] Speaker 2: then it would all go terribly wrong, but it wouldn't
[28:54] Speaker 2: be his fault. In the same way that he's done
[28:57] Speaker 2: it already, because going from, you can see, he never
[28:59] Speaker 2: managed in the Bundesliga. He got promoted into it from
[29:02] Speaker 2: the Zweite Bundesliga and then immediately left. So to go
[29:05] Speaker 2: from coaching St. Pauli to go to Brighton, that is
[29:09] Speaker 2: a quantum leap in itself. And being exposed to the
[29:12] Speaker 2: Premier League environment, that is a huge, huge difference. And
[29:15] Speaker 2: he managed it. Also, being as young as he is,
[29:18] Speaker 2: you have to... Yeah.
[29:19] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[29:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[29:30] Speaker 4: On the rest is football um talking about how last
[29:33] Speaker 4: season at times maybe he over complicated the tactics and
[29:36] Speaker 4: players like milner i think he referenced we're telling him
[29:39] Speaker 4: this so he kind of simplified it back down but
[29:41] Speaker 4: without compromising on his principles of just counter pressing is
[29:45] Speaker 4: is everything seems to be his favorite thing but you
[29:47] Speaker 4: do have to have a bit of that humility so
[29:50] Speaker 4: that players like why it always reminds me of like
[29:53] Speaker 4: avb at chelsea yeah struggling to get like Terry and
[29:57] Speaker 4: Lampard and Jock were onside.
[29:58] Speaker 2: Yeah. So he seems quite good at that.
[30:00] Speaker 1: That would be my main concern, I suppose, for him
[30:02] Speaker 1: at a big six team. Obviously, this is a premature
[30:04] Speaker 1: conversation anyway, but it's just because it's come to mind
[30:07] Speaker 1: this weekend. I also worry that Brighton, I don't want
[30:13] Speaker 1: to denigrate the achievements of Brighton because it's incredible.
[30:18] Speaker 3: I do.
[30:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, you want to. It's incredible. Same with Brentford. But
[30:24] Speaker 1: there's the joke with Brentford that the coaches are made
[30:28] Speaker 1: to look good by Brentford, by the environment that they're in.
[30:32] Speaker 1: Part of me does wonder that about Brighton on the
[30:35] Speaker 1: basis of like.
[30:36] Speaker 2: Potter. Yeah. Deserving. Right. Like, it does.
[30:38] Speaker 1: I do wonder somewhat... Not to say that Fabian Herzog
[30:42] Speaker 1: isn't a great coach, but more to say that he's
[30:45] Speaker 1: in the perfect environment in which to succeed.
[30:48] Speaker 2: It's going to be a factor.
[30:48] Speaker 1: And if you put him in a toxic environment... I
[30:51] Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not sure.
[30:53] Speaker 2: Do you not make that the responsibility of a hiring
[30:55] Speaker 2: club though? Because if you're looking to replace a coach
[30:59] Speaker 2: and you're looking to install a new one, part of
[31:01] Speaker 2: your job there is to understand why someone has succeeded
[31:04] Speaker 2: in a different environment. And I think if you take
[31:08] Speaker 2: a coach out of, say for instance, take a coach
[31:11] Speaker 2: out of Brentford and you fail to replicate what's allowed
[31:13] Speaker 2: him to succeed, It doesn't make him a bad coach.
[31:16] Speaker 2: It makes you a bad hirer. Totally.
[31:18] Speaker 1: Which is why the definition here wouldn't be, let's say
[31:20] Speaker 1: Fabian Hölzler did go to a big six team and failed.
[31:23] Speaker 1: It wouldn't mean he was a bad coach. It would
[31:24] Speaker 1: mean that it was a bad pick.
[31:26] Speaker 2: There would be a very, very reductive conversation that would say, yeah,
[31:29] Speaker 2: he's a bad coach, can't handle it.
[31:32] Speaker 1: But assuming that it doesn't say anything about him specifically,
[31:36] Speaker 1: then what do you think the result would be? If
[31:37] Speaker 1: you picked him out of Brighton today and dropped him
[31:39] Speaker 1: in a big six team?
[31:41] Speaker 2: It depends on which big six team we're talking about. Chelsea.
[31:44] Speaker 4: Chelsea.
[31:45] Speaker 2: Well, actually, I don't want to do this too literally
[31:49] Speaker 2: because it's quite antagonistic to Brighton fans, given the history.
[31:53] Speaker 2: Don't worry about Brighton fans. He's... He's a modern coach
[31:57] Speaker 2: in the sense that he understands that a head coach
[31:59] Speaker 2: is not a king within a football club. And I
[32:02] Speaker 2: still think there are coaches around who want to muscle
[32:05] Speaker 2: their clubs around their personality. So a good example, Thomas
[32:08] Speaker 2: Tuchel at Bayern Munich didn't work because he wanted Bayern
[32:11] Speaker 2: Munich to be about Thomas Tuchel, which can never be.
[32:14] Speaker 2: Herzl is someone who understands that a head coach in
[32:17] Speaker 2: the modern game is an employee. I suspect that's one
[32:20] Speaker 2: of the reasons why he works at Brighton because there's
[32:22] Speaker 2: a slot for a head coach. You drop in, you
[32:24] Speaker 2: do your job, you are.
[32:27] Speaker 2: Part of the recruitment conversation to an extent but not
[32:30] Speaker 2: the be all and end all of it and certain
[32:33] Speaker 2: clubs even at top six level are built that way
[32:35] Speaker 2: Chelsea being one of them I mean they've got four
[32:37] Speaker 2: sporting directors And counting, I guess, yeah. So it really
[32:42] Speaker 2: does depend because there's no such thing anymore as a
[32:44] Speaker 2: big six environment. They're all different. Yeah. He wouldn't get
[32:48] Speaker 2: the United midfield pressing like he got the Brighton midfield,
[32:50] Speaker 2: would he? Well, I'm not sure that anyone would. No, exactly.
[32:54] Speaker 3: Maybe he could, though, because there's Carlos Balaba there now.
[32:56] Speaker 3: That's an overlap. But I also think the prickliness element
[33:00] Speaker 3: of him is kind of To an extent, a little
[33:02] Speaker 3: bit overblown as well, because obviously we see him on
[33:04] Speaker 3: the touchline, we see what he's like. But going back
[33:06] Speaker 3: to what started this conversation off with the Arsenal stuff
[33:08] Speaker 3: from the last season where he was complaining and saying
[33:11] Speaker 3: there's only one team that wants to play football. That
[33:13] Speaker 3: felt like a calculated strategy. So going into the game,
[33:16] Speaker 3: he was talking about time wasting, time wasting. And there
[33:18] Speaker 3: was kind of a thing around the league completely unfounded
[33:21] Speaker 3: that Arsenal were time wasting at times last season. And, oh,
[33:24] Speaker 3: I thought you guys would pick up on that.
[33:25] Speaker 2: As Steve writes. Yeah, exactly.
[33:27] Speaker 3: But, yeah, and he was aware of that and he
[33:30] Speaker 3: wanted to make the game as difficult as possible for Arsenal.
[33:33] Speaker 3: And it was quite smart and it did make, it
[33:34] Speaker 3: was a horrible game. And in a way, the performance
[33:37] Speaker 3: wasn't that different from what we saw on Saturday. It's just,
[33:40] Speaker 3: Arsenal got an early goal that was quite fortunate because
[33:43] Speaker 3: it was a mistake from Bart Brubruggen and then they
[33:44] Speaker 3: could defend for the rest of the game. They didn't
[33:46] Speaker 3: get that early goal on Saturday and then they got
[33:49] Speaker 3: pecked with two goals late in the first half.
[33:51] Speaker 2: Exactly that. These guys, they don't say anything by accident.
[33:55] Speaker 2: So when someone like Herzl says that, he's doing it
[33:58] Speaker 2: knowing what the response to it is going to be.
[34:01] Speaker 2: There are very few head coaches... With very few examples
[34:04] Speaker 2: now where you see someone say something, you think, oh God,
[34:06] Speaker 2: you're going to regret that because that's a heat of
[34:07] Speaker 2: the moment comment that's going to backfire. Right. Sometimes a
[34:10] Speaker 2: strategic comment doesn't go the way a coach wants it to. Yeah.
[34:13] Speaker 2: That comment, that was just, he knows what he's doing.
[34:16] Speaker 2: He's a very, very intelligent person, very intense, but he's also...
[34:20] Speaker 2: you know, exactly the sort of person that would have
[34:22] Speaker 2: gamed that out in his mind. They can be very
[34:24] Speaker 2: subtle as well, can't they? Should we play a quick game?
[34:26] Speaker 2: Come on. I'm going to make three statements.
[34:29] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[34:29] Speaker 1: You tell me which one of them is designed to
[34:31] Speaker 1: upset you and which ones are just normal statements, okay?
[34:35] Speaker 2: Well, when you say normal, like, what do you mean? Well,
[34:37] Speaker 2: about performance. Okay. So, for example, statement number one. Yeah.
[34:41] Speaker 2: I think you're doing quite a good job on the
[34:43] Speaker 2: podcast today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. There's a lot to
[34:45] Speaker 2: unpack in that. Do you want me to evaluate them
[34:47] Speaker 2: one by one? No, I'm going to say them. Yeah, okay.
[34:50] Speaker 1: The second one is I appreciate the time that you've
[34:53] Speaker 1: given us today. Yeah.
[34:54] Speaker 2: Okay.
[34:55] Speaker 1: The third one, I think you look very ugly. Which
[34:58] Speaker 1: one do you think it was that was supposed to
[35:00] Speaker 1: upset you the most?
[35:01] Speaker 2: So, am I factoring in our.
[35:04] Speaker 2: Relationship we've known each other a long time right i
[35:07] Speaker 2: think it's the first one because you are quite well
[35:13] Speaker 2: exactly you are playing with my natural insecurity.
[35:16] Speaker 1: That's right yeah and you have no insecurity about your
[35:18] Speaker 1: ugliness that's just that's that that was spent two.
[35:21] Speaker 4: Years ago his ego is completely dependent on how well
[35:24] Speaker 4: he speaks so by throwing a quite oh No, 100%.
[35:28] Speaker 2: Such a powerful word. Very, very potent word. Powerful.
[35:33] Speaker 1: Quite, quite, quite indeed. Now, listen, before we move on
[35:35] Speaker 1: from Brighton, this is a quote from Liam Tharm's piece
[35:39] Speaker 1: he wrote after the game. Centre-back Luka Vujkovic stood out
[35:42] Speaker 1: for his aerial brilliance. This is, of course, in the
[35:44] Speaker 1: Arsenal game. Brighton's forwards knew they could press relentlessly because
[35:47] Speaker 1: they had a backline more than capable of winning long
[35:50] Speaker 1: balls from David Ryan. Now, Seb, you thought that Vujkovic
[35:53] Speaker 1: might struggle a little bit in the Premier League.
[35:55] Speaker 2: So far.
[35:57] Speaker 1: so so good in fact i've it's already prompted people
[36:00] Speaker 1: online to say he's better than van hecker already you
[36:03] Speaker 1: know what do you think.
[36:04] Speaker 2: I so last year he played at the base of
[36:06] Speaker 2: a back three uh for a very deep sitting hamburg
[36:10] Speaker 2: team and that put the emphasis on his aerial ability
[36:14] Speaker 2: his one-on-one defending kind of very sort of uh fundamental
[36:17] Speaker 2: parts of his game we should say he was on
[36:19] Speaker 2: loan from spur he was on loan from spur and
[36:20] Speaker 2: then he went to hamburg and then he was sold
[36:23] Speaker 2: by spurs yes There were times last season where his
[36:27] Speaker 2: lack of acceleration, not speed, acceleration and his body control
[36:32] Speaker 2: were found wanting and they were exposed. And I remember thinking,
[36:38] Speaker 2: if he goes to the Premier League next season, there
[36:40] Speaker 2: are going to be some moments like that where he's
[36:41] Speaker 2: going to take some criticism and have to adapt to
[36:44] Speaker 2: that and withstand some negativity. Hasn't happened so far.
[36:50] Speaker 4: And.
[36:51] Speaker 2: I'm delighted to be proved wrong. He seems to have
[36:53] Speaker 2: settled really, really well. Then with hindsight, I think knowing
[36:58] Speaker 2: what I do about how diligent he is about self-improvement,
[37:01] Speaker 2: how much time he puts into video analysis, he would
[37:04] Speaker 2: last season, there were times when before he was about
[37:07] Speaker 2: to go onto the pitch for a warmup, he'd be
[37:09] Speaker 2: on the phone to his video analyst talking about what
[37:12] Speaker 2: Union Berlin were going to do from certain crossing positions.
[37:15] Speaker 2: He is a student of the game. How old is he?
[37:17] Speaker 2: I think he's either just turned 20 or about to.
[37:21] Speaker 4: That feels like last minute cramming for an exam though.
[37:23] Speaker 4: Can you not have that conversation the day before?
[37:25] Speaker 2: He is very invested in his career and improvement. And
[37:30] Speaker 2: even those athletic things, he's been working with an athletic
[37:32] Speaker 2: coach for a very, very long time. Do you remember
[37:37] Speaker 2: Nikola Vlasic?
[37:38] Speaker 1: No.
[37:39] Speaker 2: Yeah. His dad is a former, I think, decathlete, but very,
[37:43] Speaker 2: very famous Croatian athletic trainer.
[37:47] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[37:47] Speaker 2: So he's worked with him. And so he's been working
[37:50] Speaker 2: on things like turning circle, body position, foot position, acceleration.
[37:53] Speaker 2: And so actually... it's no surprise that he's adapted to
[37:57] Speaker 2: the challenge and brilliant.
[37:59] Speaker 4: But like I was saying earlier about environments and coaches,
[38:02] Speaker 4: the same applies to players, right? Where we've seen a
[38:04] Speaker 4: centre-back who did really well at Brighton go to Spurs
[38:07] Speaker 4: and like not do terribly, not do brilliantly.
[38:08] Speaker 2: I think Van Hecke's been pretty good for Spurs. Yeah,
[38:10] Speaker 2: he's been fine, right? But like the team are not
[38:12] Speaker 2: performing as you would hope. Yeah. so everyone says Vuskovic
[38:15] Speaker 2: is great.
[38:16] Speaker 4: Yeah but then if Vuskovic had stayed at Spurs and
[38:18] Speaker 4: was playing where Van Hecke was playing now right he
[38:20] Speaker 4: may have been exposed he might have been doing fine
[38:23] Speaker 4: but the hype would not you know what I mean
[38:25] Speaker 4: like the environment it's contextual for sure.
[38:27] Speaker 2: I think also Luka Vuskovic wanted to play and he
[38:30] Speaker 2: wanted guarantees about his first team selection And for better
[38:34] Speaker 2: or worse, Roberto de Zerbi wasn't willing to give them
[38:36] Speaker 2: to him. He wanted to play.
[38:38] Speaker 4: Do you think that's related to the profile thing you
[38:40] Speaker 4: were mentioning earlier about him playing kind of in a
[38:41] Speaker 4: deep defense in the middle of a back three rather
[38:43] Speaker 4: than like confident on ball?
[38:45] Speaker 2: Possibly also, I think Roberto de Zerbi, given sort of
[38:49] Speaker 2: the nature of his career, Is he going to be
[38:52] Speaker 2: Tottenham coach in three years? I don't know. Right. So
[38:54] Speaker 2: it's not necessarily, you're not investing in a younger, longer
[38:57] Speaker 2: term guy.
[38:57] Speaker 1: He also has to win now. They spent 400 million pounds.
[39:01] Speaker 1: I don't think you can guarantee that a 19 year
[39:02] Speaker 1: old gets to start in defence for a team like Spurs.
[39:05] Speaker 2: I also think, and I'm guessing this is theory it's
[39:08] Speaker 2: not based on information but if you were if you
[39:11] Speaker 2: were Luka Viscovic and you had your eyes on one
[39:13] Speaker 2: day playing for Real Madrid or Bayern Munich then it's
[39:17] Speaker 2: going to be harder to move to one of those
[39:20] Speaker 2: clubs from Tottenham where there is a bit more financial
[39:23] Speaker 2: muscle than it would be from Brighton or a club
[39:26] Speaker 2: that as and when it's time for a player to
[39:28] Speaker 2: move on they're very happy to do a deal that's
[39:31] Speaker 2: their model that's fine so maybe there's a strategic path
[39:35] Speaker 2: through the game aspect I don't know if that's true
[39:37] Speaker 2: that's just my I like it my guessing.
[39:39] Speaker 1: I like it as an idea okay there we go
[39:41] Speaker 1: that was Arsenal nil three Brighton or the other way
[39:44] Speaker 1: around let's have a quick break and when we return
[39:46] Speaker 1: we will play a rondo with no cheating.
[39:53] Speaker 2: Has there been cheating? There's been cheating. Can someone explain
[39:56] Speaker 2: the cheating to me? Well, I can explain. And now,
[39:58] Speaker 2: by the way, Steve, we're back from the break now,
[40:00] Speaker 2: just in case you didn't know that little tiny pause there.
[40:02] Speaker 2: That was the break.
[40:03] Speaker 1: Now, there has been cheating, Seb. There's been two bouts
[40:07] Speaker 1: of cheating. One very cynical.
[40:09] Speaker 2: Did they both involve JJ? No, no, no.
[40:12] Speaker 4: No, he just gets handy clues on a plate and
[40:14] Speaker 4: still gets the answers wrong.
[40:16] Speaker 1: One bout of cheating was very cynical. The other was
[40:18] Speaker 1: just an innocent perusal of the list by accident from me.
[40:22] Speaker 1: I accidentally looked at the list in one game, and
[40:24] Speaker 1: then I immediately recused myself from the game. So it
[40:27] Speaker 1: was momentary cheating that didn't result in any kind of victory.
[40:30] Speaker 2: The cheating.
[40:31] Speaker 1: The cheating is from this little cheater over here. They
[40:34] Speaker 1: call him the little cheater Ruben Pinder.
[40:36] Speaker 2: He gets away. He's got a very sort of true
[40:38] Speaker 2: bit angelic face. You don't suspect him of being. You
[40:41] Speaker 2: think he's a little angel.
[40:43] Speaker 4: What I wanted to do was, I can't remember the topic.
[40:45] Speaker 2: You wanted to look up the answers. Classic cheating.
[40:48] Speaker 4: It was like record signings or something. And I wanted
[40:50] Speaker 4: to remind myself which teams existed in the Premier League. Yeah,
[40:52] Speaker 4: he wanted to look at the teams, which is part
[40:55] Speaker 4: of the answer, unfortunately.
[40:56] Speaker 2: Sure.
[40:56] Speaker 4: However, on last week's Thursday episode, Our guest Hamza was
[41:01] Speaker 4: writing down answers with a pen.
[41:02] Speaker 1: Well, now we don't know that he was doing that.
[41:04] Speaker 2: We know he was writing down. I thought he was
[41:06] Speaker 2: using a pen. Yeah, he was using a pen. Nobody
[41:08] Speaker 2: flagged him.
[41:08] Speaker 1: No, because Hamza's a lovely, innocent man.
[41:10] Speaker 2: Hamza, is that Hamza from the Times?
[41:12] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[41:12] Speaker 2: Excellent, Jano. Excellent, fantastic.
[41:14] Speaker 1: He was probably taking notes about a future story that
[41:17] Speaker 1: he was going to work.
[41:18] Speaker 2: On as opposed to notes from the run.
[41:19] Speaker 1: Snatched it from under your nose. Yeah, whereas we know
[41:21] Speaker 1: that you were cheating. So, you're still the only person
[41:24] Speaker 1: here that's called cheater. Yeah, there's no benefit of the
[41:26] Speaker 1: doubt after all this time.
[41:27] Speaker 2: That's right. You knew the rules and you decided to
[41:29] Speaker 2: break them.
[41:29] Speaker 1: Now, the rules here are that Ruben has to close
[41:31] Speaker 1: his laptop because he's a known cheater. You can keep
[41:33] Speaker 1: yours open because you've.
[41:34] Speaker 2: Done nothing wrong. I'm just on Brighton Arsenal. No, I
[41:36] Speaker 2: believe you. I believe you. You've done nothing wrong. Unless
[41:38] Speaker 2: it's a Rondo specifically about this game. It isn't. You'll
[41:42] Speaker 2: be fine. All 22 players who started. Well.
[41:45] Speaker 1: Okay, here's how the Rondo works. I ask a question
[41:47] Speaker 1: that has multiple correct answers. We go around in a circle.
[41:50] Speaker 1: We give correct answers.
[41:51] Speaker 2: If we give incorrect answers.
[41:52] Speaker 1: were rejected from the Rondo. If we give an answer
[41:54] Speaker 1: that's already been given, active listening, were rejected from the Rondo.
[41:59] Speaker 1: Today's category is as follows. Can I write them down
[42:02] Speaker 1: as their answer?
[42:02] Speaker 2: No, you can't.
[42:03] Speaker 1: There'll be no writing down of anything. What I'm looking for...
[42:06] Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to. Teams, Premier League teams that have
[42:09] Speaker 1: finished 20th in the Premier League since the 2000-2001 season.
[42:15] Speaker 1: There are 16 correct answers because obviously.
[42:18] Speaker 2: There are multiples. Why are we drawing the line at 2000-2001?
[42:22] Speaker 1: Because I didn't want to do any research before that.
[42:26] Speaker 1: Eight extra years takes me quite a long time.
[42:28] Speaker 2: Actually very convenient for me because that's when my footballing
[42:30] Speaker 2: brain gained consciousness.
[42:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, and people don't care about what happened in 1993.
[42:34] Speaker 1: You know those people that say, oh, football existed before 92.
[42:38] Speaker 2: No, it didn't. And also it didn't exist before 2000.
[42:40] Speaker 2: So shut up. Okay.
[42:42] Speaker 4: That's actually a legit point to make that it's irrelevant
[42:46] Speaker 4: before 92, but not for the reason people think, not
[42:48] Speaker 4: the invention of the Premier League, the bad pass rule.
[42:51] Speaker 3: Different sport. Different sport completely. Harder to Google answers from
[42:55] Speaker 3: the 90s as well, I think.
[42:56] Speaker 2: That's true, isn't it? It's harder to cheat in the
[42:58] Speaker 2: early days. Now... As a senior member of this podcast,
[43:03] Speaker 2: I strongly disagree, but I'm going to kind of bite
[43:06] Speaker 2: down on that. You go along with it anyway.
[43:07] Speaker 1: Now, Seb, let's begin with you. Please give me the
[43:09] Speaker 1: name of a team that's finished 20th since and including
[43:12] Speaker 1: the 2000-2001 season.
[43:13] Speaker 2: I want to take something obvious off the table. I'll
[43:15] Speaker 2: go Derby County. Yes, Derby County. You can have 2007-2008.
[43:17] Speaker 2: That's absolutely correct. You look like you're going to say
[43:21] Speaker 2: something else. I have a question. Yes. If a team finished,
[43:25] Speaker 2: if it happened to a team twice, can you have
[43:28] Speaker 2: the team? No, no, no.
[43:30] Speaker 1: One team, multiple instances, and it counts as one answer.
[43:33] Speaker 1: So there are teams on here that have done it
[43:35] Speaker 1: multiple times, but there's still only one.
[43:37] Speaker 2: Answer, can't there? Sunderland. Sunderland are a correct answer. They've
[43:41] Speaker 2: actually done it three times. 2002, 3, 5, 6, and 16, 17. Okay. Ruben?
[43:42] Speaker 2: I have Reading, please.
[43:43] Speaker 1: Reading?
[43:43] Speaker 2: Yes.
[43:49] Speaker 1: He's not a correct answer. As soon as he can't cheat,
[43:52] Speaker 1: he's immediately out of it.
[43:54] Speaker 2: Unbelievable. Unbelievable, isn't it?
[43:56] Speaker 1: After all that conversation about cheating. Wow.
[44:00] Speaker 2: I panicked. That is so bad. We will take Huddersfield Town.
[44:06] Speaker 2: You can have Huddersfield Town.
[44:07] Speaker 1: No, the reason I'm laughing is because I know that
[44:09] Speaker 1: it will actually hurt Rupert.
[44:11] Speaker 2: It's not for show. I'm fuming. He will talk about
[44:14] Speaker 2: it in the office. Okay, Kyle, back to you. Portsmouth. Yeah,
[44:18] Speaker 2: Portsmouth in 9-10. You can have that. Okay, Seb, back
[44:21] Speaker 2: to you. Burnley. burnley is not a correct answer not
[44:26] Speaker 2: under company not.
[44:27] Speaker 1: A correct answer no no even under company i think
[44:31] Speaker 1: they were 19th.
[44:31] Speaker 2: You finished he finished 20th.
[44:33] Speaker 1: Don't say it i nearly just said it yeah okay
[44:36] Speaker 1: i'm ruling out southampton because i think it was southampton
[44:39] Speaker 1: finished 20th so you can't you.
[44:40] Speaker 3: Can't include them as well southampton yeah 24 25 also
[44:41] Speaker 3: 0405 and 22 23 so i take them I was
[44:47] Speaker 3: thinking of the 0405 team. There are many, many correct
[44:50] Speaker 3: answers left. Would you like a clue, Kaya?
[44:52] Speaker 4: No.
[44:53] Speaker 2: Oh, God, I've got one. Because I know the clue.
[44:55] Speaker 2: The answer is yes. Do you want a clue? I'd
[44:56] Speaker 2: love a clue, Joe. The clue is that you know
[44:58] Speaker 2: all of these teams. The answer.
[45:00] Speaker 1: is what for 2006-7 now he didn't know that because
[45:04] Speaker 1: it was 2006-7 you couldn't possibly remember that year because
[45:07] Speaker 1: you were only 9 you were 9 years old but
[45:10] Speaker 1: congratulations Kaya is named Rondo Del Rey in a not
[45:13] Speaker 1: particularly competitive that was poor that was bad QPR on
[45:16] Speaker 1: there QPR are on there. That's the hooped team I
[45:22] Speaker 1: was thinking of.
[45:24] Speaker 2: Norwich? I wasn't sure.
[45:25] Speaker 3: Norwich are on there plenty.
[45:27] Speaker 1: Every time they come up. They did it in 2019-20.
[45:31] Speaker 1: Obviously came straight back up and then immediately did it
[45:33] Speaker 1: again in 21-22.
[45:35] Speaker 2: Good for them.
[45:36] Speaker 1: Other answers you could have had. Wolves have done it
[45:38] Speaker 1: three times. West Ham have done it once. West Bromwich
[45:41] Speaker 1: Albion have done it twice. Sheffield United, of course, have
[45:44] Speaker 1: done it fairly recently, 23-24. Leicester City did it in 0-1-0-2.
[45:50] Speaker 1: Cardiff did it in 13-14. The first answer on this list,
[45:54] Speaker 1: the first correct one was Bradford City. That was in 2000-2001.
[45:57] Speaker 1: And Aston Villa did it in 2015-16, which is really awful.
[46:02] Speaker 4: That was the season that Jolien Lescott tweeted a photo
[46:06] Speaker 4: of a car.
[46:07] Speaker 2: Right. And do you remember that? The pocket dial. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[46:12] Speaker 2: When fans were giving him shit for playing terribly. Kim
[46:14] Speaker 2: Sherwood was their manager. They had Adama Traore and a
[46:18] Speaker 2: young Jack Grealish. Wow. And Idrissa Gueye. How about that?
[46:21] Speaker 2: They had some not bad players in that team. It's
[46:23] Speaker 2: kind of amazing what they've done to turn it around
[46:25] Speaker 2: in 10 years. Well, they kept hold of Grealish when
[46:27] Speaker 2: they went down and he brought him back up.
[46:29] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[46:30] Speaker 2: Incredible. Incredible work. Okay, right. There we go.
[46:33] Speaker 1: That was the Rondo. Well done to Kaya, who's been
[46:35] Speaker 1: named Rondo del Rey. Now, Man City 5, 3 Sunderland,
[46:40] Speaker 1: as Sam Lee wrote in his match piece for The Athletic,
[46:42] Speaker 1: 8 goals, 1 opposition hat-trick, and one pulsating Premier League victory.
[46:48] Speaker 1: That's a very concise match report, isn't it? That's the
[46:51] Speaker 1: end of it, yeah.
[46:52] Speaker 2: That's nice, yeah.
[46:53] Speaker 1: Manchester City brushed off setback after setback to win an
[46:55] Speaker 1: exhilarating encounter against Sunderland. Now, Brian Brobbey, of course, is
[46:58] Speaker 1: the player who scored that impressive hat-trick for the visitors,
[47:01] Speaker 1: but the hosts outscored them, including a cheeky near-post free-kick
[47:05] Speaker 1: goal from Enzo Fernandez.
[47:07] Speaker 2: So Steve, this paragraph. I wrote this. No. I wrote it.
[47:11] Speaker 1: I'm really in Steve's voice. I'm in his head. No,
[47:14] Speaker 1: if it was Steve, it would be much.
[47:16] Speaker 2: Worse than this. Outscored is a Steve-ism.
[47:19] Speaker 1: No, the biggest Steve-ism in here is visitors and hosts.
[47:23] Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing Steve says. I've tried to
[47:25] Speaker 1: stick true to the soul of his voice. The free
[47:28] Speaker 1: kick was cheeky.
[47:30] Speaker 2: It was cheeky. It was cheeky, wasn't it? Bad goalkeeper.
[47:33] Speaker 1: It would have included the black cats. It would have
[47:34] Speaker 1: included the blue mooners or something.
[47:37] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[47:40] Speaker 4: Well, it was once in a blue moon that City
[47:42] Speaker 4: conceded four expected goals.
[47:44] Speaker 2: That's true.
[47:45] Speaker 4: I think I heard on the TV that's the first
[47:46] Speaker 4: time they've ever conceded that much expected goals.
[47:49] Speaker 1: Really? It was kind of crazy because every time Sunderland scored,
[47:52] Speaker 1: they appeared to score from a 1xG chance according to
[47:55] Speaker 1: the way the game evolved.
[47:56] Speaker 2: The first probably goal was really nicely taken. Yeah. Yeah,
[47:58] Speaker 2: really good. He surprised me. I thought he showed up
[48:03] Speaker 2: at RB Leipzig from our accent and nobody was hanging.
[48:05] Speaker 2: Did you actually pronounce it Air B Leipzig, Seb? You do,
[48:07] Speaker 2: thank you. Just to let you know. I wasn't sure.
[48:09] Speaker 2: It might help you a little bit. I get flack
[48:11] Speaker 2: for doing that. Really? Yeah, when I say Air B,
[48:12] Speaker 2: people are like, oh, it's Red Bull. It's not because
[48:14] Speaker 2: it's Rasenball Sport. Of course it is. It's not Red Bull.
[48:17] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[48:17] Speaker 2: And we should intentionally call it Rasenball. I get people
[48:21] Speaker 2: shouting at me for it.
[48:22] Speaker 4: Right.
[48:23] Speaker 2: Which people? German people or English people?
[48:25] Speaker 1: English.
[48:25] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[48:26] Speaker 4: But surely the Rasenball thing is like a convenient way of.
[48:30] Speaker 2: Not calling it Rasenball. Of course it is. But it
[48:32] Speaker 2: is still the truth. That is their official name. If
[48:34] Speaker 2: you were to pronounce it in German, Air B is correct.
[48:36] Speaker 2: But then people go, stop it. Now, I support Air B.
[48:40] Speaker 2: I like Air B. Okay.
[48:41] Speaker 1: All right.
[48:42] Speaker 2: So this is me now. Like I've been so beaten
[48:45] Speaker 2: down by criticism that it's changing my habits. Anyway, he
[48:48] Speaker 2: turned up in Leipzig.
[48:50] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[48:51] Speaker 2: He ducked it there. and nobody's having him didn't really
[48:54] Speaker 2: rate him as a player didn't think that he kind
[48:57] Speaker 2: of had the personality to adapt it made no impression
[48:59] Speaker 2: whatsoever in the bundesliga and that was kind of the
[49:01] Speaker 2: moment thinking right well you're never coming back to this
[49:04] Speaker 2: level he's been great he's he's amazing he's an exemplary
[49:07] Speaker 2: target man yeah pretty good at the world cup as
[49:09] Speaker 2: well yes he was who do you play for the
[49:11] Speaker 2: world cup holland holland the netherlands right yeah there we
[49:15] Speaker 2: go how about that anyway uh here's what enzo maresca
[49:17] Speaker 2: said about the game to be honest i prefer to
[49:19] Speaker 2: win 1-0 than 5-3, but I expected a very difficult game.
[49:22] Speaker 1: I enjoyed that quote. I threw that one in there
[49:24] Speaker 1: because I'm sure it's true of all coaches. They would
[49:26] Speaker 1: all prefer to win 1-0 than 5-3, except list a
[49:30] Speaker 1: coach that wouldn't.
[49:31] Speaker 2: Andrew Postacoglu.
[49:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's true. I feel like there's two
[49:34] Speaker 1: types of coaches, isn't there? There's coaches that would prefer
[49:36] Speaker 1: to win 1-0 and then there's coaches that wouldn't mind
[49:39] Speaker 1: winning 5-3. I feel like Ole Gunnar Solskjaer would have
[49:42] Speaker 1: preferred to win 5-3.
[49:43] Speaker 2: Yeah. Or like anyone in theory that's taken the Man
[49:47] Speaker 2: United job. Kevin Keegan. Kevin Keegan. Ferguson was quite... 3-2
[49:51] Speaker 2: rather than 1-0.
[49:52] Speaker 1: I think he I think he would have preferred 1-0
[49:54] Speaker 1: though he was always about the um throwing all the
[49:56] Speaker 1: attackers and then sort of that's true but that was
[49:59] Speaker 1: back in a time when no one actually scored in
[50:01] Speaker 1: football because it was much easier to play okay I
[50:04] Speaker 1: think that's the thing you're supposed to say to upset
[50:05] Speaker 1: my fans yeah it's very different back in the day
[50:09] Speaker 1: anyway what happened in this game who watched this.
[50:11] Speaker 2: Game I have seen most of it okay what happened
[50:16] Speaker 2: Manchester City won.
[50:17] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[50:17] Speaker 2: They scored five times. It was actually five. As Steve writes. Yeah.
[50:21] Speaker 2: In a pulsating encounter. I think. We were doing a
[50:24] Speaker 2: round table for the Athletic this morning and we were
[50:27] Speaker 2: asked to pick which of the new head coaches this
[50:29] Speaker 2: season in the Premier League have had a good run.
[50:31] Speaker 2: I think Maresca's in the conversation. I mean, he's won
[50:33] Speaker 2: 100% of his games. It's not just that, but he's
[50:37] Speaker 2: reconfigured the midfield. Enzo's in. Elliot Anderson's in. NJ is
[50:41] Speaker 2: part of the attacking midfield. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Young player.
[50:46] Speaker 2: And he's made it work. Five wins out of five.
[50:48] Speaker 2: And he's also made it work within the shadow of Guardiola,
[50:51] Speaker 2: which has got to be as difficult a succession as
[50:54] Speaker 2: you can possibly imagine.
[50:54] Speaker 4: So is it unfair to say that he's doing a
[50:55] Speaker 4: slot then and like benefiting from... He's obviously benefiting a
[50:59] Speaker 4: bit from the structure that Guardiola's imposed. But like you say,
[51:02] Speaker 4: so many new players, they're not like just going to
[51:06] Speaker 4: automatically click.
[51:07] Speaker 2: I don't think it's unfair to say that because I
[51:08] Speaker 2: think this is a thing, right? When the season after
[51:11] Speaker 2: a successful coach leaves tends to be okay, I don't
[51:14] Speaker 2: know if that stands up to any scrutiny. It's just
[51:17] Speaker 2: something I've said out loud. But I think it depends
[51:20] Speaker 2: on transfers, doesn't it? Like, you know, the thing with Slott...
[51:24] Speaker 2: It might be true.
[51:25] Speaker 1: I don't know. The thing with Slott was that there
[51:29] Speaker 1: was relatively little squad change and unrest between Klopp and him.
[51:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, that was it, wasn't it?
[51:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, whereas the following season, they brought this... Isak, Ekotike,
[51:38] Speaker 1: they completely changed everything at which point.
[51:41] Speaker 2: Fringepan Kirk has.
[51:42] Speaker 1: And they sold a bunch of players as well. And
[51:44] Speaker 1: at that point, things started to shake a little bit.
[51:47] Speaker 1: So I feel like in that sense, Maresca has done
[51:49] Speaker 1: an even better job.
[51:50] Speaker 2: Lost Rodri.
[51:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
[51:51] Speaker 2: Because they lost Rodri without whom.
[51:54] Speaker 1: Man City, we've all agreed, have been nowhere near as
[51:57] Speaker 1: good for the last five years whenever he's not playing.
[52:00] Speaker 1: So to not have him at all and to be winning,
[52:02] Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I think the interesting thing about
[52:03] Speaker 1: this game, for example, is that they shipped three goals. Now,
[52:06] Speaker 1: I don't know when the last time they did that was.
[52:08] Speaker 1: It was probably a long time ago.
[52:09] Speaker 2: You said Community Shield. Community Shield. I've probably got something
[52:13] Speaker 2: right now. Sorry, in a real game. I meant in
[52:15] Speaker 2: a real game. At the Etihad, it might be against
[52:19] Speaker 2: Postacogli's Spurs.
[52:20] Speaker 3: Was it the Fulham game? They had like a 5-4
[52:22] Speaker 3: against Fulham. You should know this.
[52:24] Speaker 2: Quite recently. Yes, of course.
[52:25] Speaker 4: The 5-4.
[52:25] Speaker 3: Yes, I remember that. They were 5-1 up and it
[52:27] Speaker 3: finished 5-4. Sorry, I don't have any stats written down.
[52:29] Speaker 2: You're cheating again, aren't you? No, it's fine.
[52:31] Speaker 1: But the other point that you already raised at the
[52:33] Speaker 1: fact that they conceded 4xg within the game. I'm wondering
[52:37] Speaker 1: if this is a slightly new... version of Manchester City
[52:41] Speaker 1: John has kind of tempered us by saying oh we
[52:44] Speaker 1: shouldn't you know get too stuck on comparing Enzo Maresca
[52:47] Speaker 1: and Pep Guardiola or saying that they are exactly the
[52:50] Speaker 1: same person exactly the same coach I suppose my what
[52:55] Speaker 1: I'm excited about is the notion that if Man City
[52:59] Speaker 1: are the direct competitors to Arsenal for the Premier League
[53:02] Speaker 1: title could it be that on the one hand we
[53:05] Speaker 1: have Arsenal who still want to remain dogged and athletic
[53:08] Speaker 1: and to keep scorelines low and to you know not
[53:11] Speaker 1: compromise in any way uh in the way that they
[53:14] Speaker 1: won the league last season and on the other hand
[53:16] Speaker 1: we might we have manchester city who i don't know
[53:18] Speaker 1: i mean at least in this game they won it
[53:20] Speaker 1: by outscoring their opponent in a an incredibly fun game
[53:24] Speaker 1: that it turns out none of us actually watch.
[53:25] Speaker 3: Yeah but i think maresca has said that he doesn't
[53:28] Speaker 3: want that right as you did say that yeah and
[53:31] Speaker 3: his start kind of reminds me a bit of his
[53:33] Speaker 3: start at chelsea where Chelsea had been a really fun
[53:36] Speaker 3: team under Poch, but deeply flawed. And then when Maresca
[53:39] Speaker 3: came in, he kept a lot of those bits that
[53:42] Speaker 3: had made Chelsea so fun. And then eventually over time,
[53:44] Speaker 3: I think it was around the new year, he started
[53:46] Speaker 3: to kind of properly get his principles of play into Chelsea.
[53:49] Speaker 3: And then I think we started to see them become
[53:50] Speaker 3: a little bit more controlled, which was effective, but I
[53:53] Speaker 3: don't think the fans found it particularly great. And in
[53:55] Speaker 3: answer to what you were saying, were they going to
[53:56] Speaker 3: be the fun alternative to Arsenal? I don't quite think
[54:00] Speaker 3: so yet because I don't think that's what Maresca wants
[54:02] Speaker 3: in the long run. I think he wants... As John
[54:04] Speaker 3: said a few times, that sort of 22-23 tactical meta
[54:07] Speaker 3: of more control, more sort of, yeah, controlling the game
[54:11] Speaker 3: through the ball and not necessarily having these kind of
[54:14] Speaker 3: basketball matches where they go back and forth and they
[54:16] Speaker 3: concede three times after they scored almost straight away. I
[54:18] Speaker 3: don't think that's what they want. And yeah, I think
[54:21] Speaker 3: it's sort of, there's a boat on the Manchester City badge,
[54:26] Speaker 3: which I didn't know until I looked it up the
[54:28] Speaker 3: other day. And Maresca has got his team. Staying afloat.
[54:33] Speaker 3: He's got them staying afloat, but also they're kind of
[54:35] Speaker 3: sailing through choppy.
[54:36] Speaker 2: Waters right now. Sailing through choppy waters. And he wants
[54:39] Speaker 2: a lot calmer seas, I would say.
[54:40] Speaker 1: Right.
[54:41] Speaker 2: So that's his end goal. He wants to change the weather.
[54:43] Speaker 2: He wants to steer the ship. Like the government. Exactly.
[54:46] Speaker 3: Wow.
[54:47] Speaker 4: Do you want a little OptaJoe stat quiz from this game?
[54:50] Speaker 2: Yes, please.
[54:51] Speaker 4: Brian Brobbey was the first player to score a hat-trick
[54:54] Speaker 4: but end up on the losing side in a Premier
[54:56] Speaker 4: League match since December 2007. When, who did it, for whom?
[55:00] Speaker 2: 2007? Wow.
[55:01] Speaker 1: Has it really been that long since that's happened?
[55:03] Speaker 2: Hat-trick on the losing side, yeah.
[55:04] Speaker 1: Wow.
[55:05] Speaker 2: Can we have a clue?
[55:07] Speaker 4: Yes.
[55:07] Speaker 2: No, no, no.
[55:07] Speaker 1: No need for a clue. We know this player. Was
[55:10] Speaker 1: it a game between Man United and Tottenham?
[55:12] Speaker 2: No, it was a game between Blackburn and Wigan.
[55:15] Speaker 1: Oh, in which case I don't know who it is.
[55:16] Speaker 1: Is it Charlton Zogbia? No, but he did play for both. No,
[55:19] Speaker 1: he didn't play for Blackburn, did he? Jason Scotland.
[55:22] Speaker 2: It was... Henry Camara. Roque Santa Cruz.
[55:26] Speaker 1: Ah!
[55:26] Speaker 2: Roque Santa Cruz. December 2007.
[55:27] Speaker 4: That's almost 20 years, mate.
[55:29] Speaker 2: That's crazy. Didn't he move to City? Yeah. He was
[55:32] Speaker 2: one of their... He was an Adebayor signing.
[55:34] Speaker 1: Right.
[55:35] Speaker 2: Yeah. What does that mean? It means we've got money,
[55:38] Speaker 2: we're going to make this. Is it a good idea?
[55:39] Speaker 2: Don't know. Proved not to be a good idea. Adebayor
[55:42] Speaker 2: was a good player, though. He was, but not at City.
[55:44] Speaker 1: Nah.
[55:44] Speaker 2: He was a very good player at Spurs, not Arsenal. Well,
[55:48] Speaker 2: there we go. That was Man City. Very exciting. Can
[55:50] Speaker 2: I also say one more thing on Man City?
[55:51] Speaker 3: Is it about boats? It's not about boats this time.
[55:54] Speaker 3: But the way they conceded their goals was quite interesting.
[55:56] Speaker 3: And it's a bit of a theme in the sense
[55:58] Speaker 3: that Enzo Maresca wants his teams to defend kind of
[56:01] Speaker 3: on the edge of the box. That's where he sets
[56:02] Speaker 3: the lineup. Because to quote him, things happen in the box.
[56:06] Speaker 3: That's a direct quote from Enzo Maresca.
[56:08] Speaker 2: Incredible.
[56:08] Speaker 3: And all three of Brighton's goals kind of felt like
[56:12] Speaker 3: they exploited that quite well. And that's something that I've
[56:15] Speaker 3: noticed a few times a city when they've conceded chances
[56:18] Speaker 3: is if you kind of get runners coming from out
[56:20] Speaker 3: to in and uh, in behind like that. And then
[56:23] Speaker 3: you just get a center forward kind of moving into
[56:24] Speaker 3: the typical center forward in between the post position. They
[56:27] Speaker 3: can give up some quite high XG chances. And they
[56:30] Speaker 3: did that in the community shield. They've done that in
[56:32] Speaker 3: other games as well. And three times today, I mean,
[56:35] Speaker 3: that's like, I'm sorry, three times on Sunday. That's, that's
[56:37] Speaker 3: a big issue at the heart of their defense.
[56:40] Speaker 2: Muneo just curved his run through the back line and
[56:42] Speaker 2: none of them went with him.
[56:43] Speaker 3: Same with, I think, is it Angulo for the third goal? Um,
[56:46] Speaker 3: the Ecuadorian guy. So that, that's, yeah, that's a, uh,
[56:50] Speaker 3: A seeming flaw that they do, I think, have to fix.
[56:53] Speaker 3: And it could have been a fourth goal as well
[56:54] Speaker 3: if it wasn't for the Ruben Diaz miraculous clearance off
[56:57] Speaker 3: the line. So that does seem a big hole in
[57:00] Speaker 3: the side of their ship.
[57:01] Speaker 1: Well, both teams chasing the title there early on, conceding
[57:05] Speaker 1: three goals in the same game week. One of them
[57:07] Speaker 1: scoring five, though. So, you know, that was the other
[57:10] Speaker 1: one scoring none and getting pecked to death by vicious birds. Now,
[57:15] Speaker 1: Spurs 2, 3 Aston Villa. This was one of the
[57:18] Speaker 1: more interesting games of the weekend, wasn't it? Five games
[57:20] Speaker 1: into the Premier League season, of course, and Spurs go
[57:22] Speaker 1: into the international break. Bottom of the table. This, incidentally,
[57:26] Speaker 1: is what my rondo was based on. Currently, Spurs are
[57:29] Speaker 1: 20th after the 3-2 defeat at home to Aston Villa,
[57:32] Speaker 1: but they have scored two goals now, which is nice.
[57:35] Speaker 1: So they've broken that duct. Roberto de Zerbi said after
[57:38] Speaker 1: the game, football is like life. Either you are stronger
[57:42] Speaker 1: or you lose. quite enjoyed that what does that mean
[57:45] Speaker 1: what does that mean is he talking about death i don't.
[57:49] Speaker 2: Know it's a bit game of thronesy isn't it.
[57:51] Speaker 1: I think it is a little bit game of thronesy
[57:53] Speaker 1: yeah i think the important thing is to not question
[57:55] Speaker 1: it just nod and say.
[57:56] Speaker 2: Yes sure so okay robotic.
[57:58] Speaker 1: And then carry on Una Emery's team, however, showed some
[58:00] Speaker 1: promise with the goals from new signings, Nicholas Jackson and
[58:03] Speaker 1: Johan Manzambi, plus some sensational saves from Zion Suzuki in
[58:07] Speaker 1: this game that I think probably made all the difference
[58:10] Speaker 1: to the outcome. Aston Villa going to the break outside
[58:12] Speaker 1: the relegation zone, of course, with much work to do still, though.
[58:16] Speaker 2: Sebastian Spurs. Yes.
[58:20] Speaker 1: I'm a bit torn on what I learned from this game.
[58:23] Speaker 1: Is this more proof that Spurs will be fine? Because
[58:25] Speaker 1: they were pretty good in the game, at least in
[58:28] Speaker 1: the first half they were. Or is it more proof
[58:30] Speaker 1: that they're bad? Or is it more proof of both
[58:32] Speaker 1: of those things?
[58:33] Speaker 2: It's kind of proof of both of those things. So
[58:35] Speaker 2: there are some conflicting issues from this game. The charitable
[58:39] Speaker 2: points first. Spurs got quite unlucky. Yes. Sonya with the
[58:42] Speaker 2: first goal because it was conceded with. Mickey van de
[58:44] Speaker 2: Ven had to go off with an injury to his cheekbone. Yeah,
[58:47] Speaker 2: Mickey van de Ven. Mickey... That's just how we say
[58:50] Speaker 2: it on the TV podcast. Okay, cool. Just say it
[58:53] Speaker 2: back to me. Fontevent. Fontevent, there you go. Did I
[58:55] Speaker 2: do it? Okay. That's right. Well done, good job. Which
[58:58] Speaker 2: is pretty unlucky because the goal came immediately. Andy Robertson
[59:01] Speaker 2: made a bizarre mistake. And when he kept the ball in. Yeah,
[59:06] Speaker 2: that was very strange. When he's going out for corners,
[59:08] Speaker 2: you either just accept that... clear it, or keep it
[59:11] Speaker 2: under control. You have to do one or the other.
[59:12] Speaker 2: You cannot do what he did. He just kicked it
[59:15] Speaker 2: straight to a Villa player and they scored. It's pretty bad.
[59:17] Speaker 2: So it's pretty unlucky. You're right. Zion Suzuki played very,
[59:19] Speaker 2: very well. Made a really excellent save, particularly from Archie Gray.
[59:23] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[59:24] Speaker 2: And then from Savio as well. Made two really good saves.
[59:26] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[59:27] Speaker 2: Spurs could actually probably have been two up by the
[59:29] Speaker 2: time Villa scored.
[59:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if you replayed this game 10 times,
[59:33] Speaker 1: they would have won it seven.
[59:35] Speaker 2: But this would be to ignore the big Spurs flaw
[59:38] Speaker 2: at the moment, which is that see the same counter adversity.
[59:42] Speaker 2: There is an emotional response, a really negative emotional response
[59:44] Speaker 2: to it, whereby all the things that have been said
[59:47] Speaker 2: about Spurs over the past six months seem to get
[59:49] Speaker 2: louder in the heads of the Spurs players. Everything becomes
[59:52] Speaker 2: rushed and desperate. There's anxiety, basic things start to break
[59:56] Speaker 2: down and you have to fix that. You can't just
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: keep saying we've been unlucky because that's football, right? Bad
[1:00:03] Speaker 2: things happen to you during games. You have to respond
[1:00:05] Speaker 2: to them. You can be unlucky all the time, right?
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: So good example, Brighton scored against Arsenal, really nice Pascal
[1:00:13] Speaker 2: Gross goal. That's just something that happened. What you do
[1:00:17] Speaker 2: from there on to respond to it is your business.
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: Arsenal in this instance didn't respond well to it. And
[1:00:23] Speaker 2: Tottenham the same, right? You concede an unlucky goal, but
[1:00:25] Speaker 2: you have to come back from it. And there is
[1:00:27] Speaker 2: still at that point, I think about 50 minutes, 55
[1:00:30] Speaker 2: minutes left. You're playing pretty well. You're moving the ball nicely.
[1:00:34] Speaker 2: You are actually creating chances, even if you're not taking them.
[1:00:36] Speaker 2: And there's no real reason for the panic, but this
[1:00:40] Speaker 2: is a challenge. You have to get rid of the panic.
[1:00:41] Speaker 2: You have to get rid of the panic.
[1:00:42] Speaker 1: So this, those panic moments were interesting to me because it,
[1:00:46] Speaker 1: to me, it looked like, uh, that they were so
[1:00:50] Speaker 1: desperate to win back the ball and.
[1:00:52] Speaker 2: Do a good thing. They left themselves completely open. It
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: was hectic. The tactical structure departed. There was a, particularly
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: when they pressed for the ball. it was very careless
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: in terms of what kind of space was being left behind.
[1:01:07] Speaker 2: You saw in the second half, especially Villa breaking away
[1:01:10] Speaker 2: pretty regularly, which was alarming. Villa are a vulnerable side
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: in themselves at the moment. They came into this game
[1:01:17] Speaker 2: with one point. They might have been bottom of the
[1:01:20] Speaker 2: Premier League table at the end of this weekend had
[1:01:22] Speaker 2: they not won. So this was a chance to beat
[1:01:25] Speaker 2: a weak opponent. And even against them, there was the collapse.
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: What I do think though is there are, There are
[1:01:31] Speaker 2: some good things happening within the Spurs side. I think
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: the ball movement in midfield has become a lot better. Yeah.
[1:01:36] Speaker 2: I think... The chance creation is good.
[1:01:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:01:39] Speaker 2: Sandra Denali played pretty well. Savio played pretty well. Mm-hmm.
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: Omar Mamouch was marginally improved from before. Just needs to
[1:01:45] Speaker 2: score a goal. Just needs to score a goal. Dominic
[1:01:48] Speaker 2: Solanke is not playing well. That needs to be fixed.
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: That moment where the ball came across to him. I
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: think it eventually led to one of those saves that
[1:01:56] Speaker 2: you mentioned from Savio. But the ball should have been
[1:02:00] Speaker 2: dispatched by Solanke. He seemed to be stuck in the mud.
[1:02:02] Speaker 2: The ball just seemed to roll onto his foot and
[1:02:06] Speaker 2: he just wasn't ready for it. Which, yeah, it looked
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: really bad. It didn't look good and his performance has
[1:02:12] Speaker 2: been way off for a long time. Do you think
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: Marmouch eventually takes the nine position as a result? Maybe,
[1:02:16] Speaker 2: but then I think until Javi Simons is back, I
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: think you need Marmouch to play off the left because
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: I don't think there's a better option off there. You also, like,
[1:02:24] Speaker 2: deserve he's got the chance to revive him, right? Yeah,
[1:02:27] Speaker 2: he does. And also, I think it's five games. It's
[1:02:30] Speaker 2: five games. I also think it doesn't take much for
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: Spurs not to become a good side, but to become
[1:02:36] Speaker 2: a competent one.
[1:02:37] Speaker 1: Yes.
[1:02:37] Speaker 2: And you're... Okay, so bottom of the table is an
[1:02:40] Speaker 2: ugly statistic, but two wins in your.
[1:02:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, I was kind of convinced by this game, the
[1:02:45] Speaker 1: first half of this game, that they're definitely not going
[1:02:46] Speaker 1: to get relegated.
[1:02:47] Speaker 2: Well... The problem with that, though, is that the first
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: half of this game was very similar to the first
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: half against Everton. I was also convinced by that that
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: they weren't going to get relegated. And by that. And
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: then all you have is a Newcastle pretty decent performance
[1:02:59] Speaker 2: and then a bad break. A really good move put
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: together by the opposition and then a goal that goes in.
[1:03:03] Speaker 2: Slightly pituitously, but a really well-taken goal.
[1:03:05] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:03:06] Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, everyone's anxious on the pitch,
[1:03:09] Speaker 2: in the stands, in the technical area. Totally. De Zerbe
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: didn't do a particularly good job of his subs. I
[1:03:13] Speaker 2: think that... Yeah. The longer that goes on, the harder
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: it gets. I think that's absolutely right. And also they,
[1:03:21] Speaker 2: they probably lost Pedro Porro for quite a few weeks now.
[1:03:23] Speaker 2: So Porro, there's some statistic doing the rounds about how,
[1:03:28] Speaker 2: when Spurs had adequate backup in the right back position
[1:03:31] Speaker 2: through Jed Spence, I think Porro had only missed about
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: five games and now, that they have sold Jed Spence
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: into Milan and have no recognised right back. Archie Gray
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: is a right back. He is a midfielder playing right back.
[1:03:43] Speaker 2: It depends how you look at it. I prefer my
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: way of looking at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is
[1:03:48] Speaker 2: that Archie Gray, a good young player, got a lot
[1:03:51] Speaker 2: to learn, got a lot of attributes, but not right back. Sure, sure, sure.
[1:03:54] Speaker 2: And take Pedro Parra out of that team and the
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: loss is pretty noticeable and now seems like a hamstring.
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: Stick to Nali out there. Do a job. Again, midfielder, but.
[1:04:05] Speaker 3: Feels like they're a little bit back to square one
[1:04:07] Speaker 3: in a sense of when Deserby took over. His first
[1:04:09] Speaker 3: press conference, I remember him saying, Tactics are kind of
[1:04:12] Speaker 3: irrelevant now. We don't need to do anything tactical. We
[1:04:14] Speaker 3: just need to raise the spirits and like get people
[1:04:16] Speaker 3: feeling themselves again. And that's almost, it worked towards the
[1:04:21] Speaker 3: end of the season. And in those final games, they
[1:04:23] Speaker 3: weren't great against Villa or they weren't great against Everton
[1:04:25] Speaker 3: on the final day.
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: They were good enough.
[1:04:27] Speaker 3: They were good enough. And you could see a little
[1:04:29] Speaker 3: bit of confidence coming back into them. And now the
[1:04:31] Speaker 3: season results wise has started so badly for them. It
[1:04:34] Speaker 3: kind of feels like their confidence has gone down. through
[1:04:36] Speaker 3: the floor again to the point where I thought, like
[1:04:38] Speaker 3: we said, they were good first half against Villa. And
[1:04:41] Speaker 3: then like you said, Seb, a well-worked move kind of
[1:04:43] Speaker 3: takes them apart. And then before you know it, their
[1:04:45] Speaker 3: confidence has gone through the floor again. And De Zerbi
[1:04:48] Speaker 3: probably is now thinking after a summer in which he's
[1:04:51] Speaker 3: had them in pre-season, he's had a chance to work
[1:04:53] Speaker 3: with them a bit on the training ground. He's brought
[1:04:54] Speaker 3: in players that he wants to bring in. He's probably thinking,
[1:04:56] Speaker 3: I'd quite like to do the tactics bit now, but
[1:04:59] Speaker 3: he's still having to manage the psychological aspect and he's
[1:05:01] Speaker 3: still having to try and motivate his players and lift them.
[1:05:04] Speaker 3: which is something that I think most people thought the
[1:05:06] Speaker 3: end of last season was kind of a short-term job.
[1:05:08] Speaker 3: And then you springboard from that onto the tactic side.
[1:05:10] Speaker 3: But he's still not got them into a position where
[1:05:13] Speaker 3: I think you can start building them. Because to play
[1:05:16] Speaker 3: deserby ball in the way that it worked at Brighton,
[1:05:18] Speaker 3: you need very confident players at the back and kind
[1:05:20] Speaker 3: of across the whole team. But Spurs haven't got that
[1:05:22] Speaker 3: at all right now. And things will go wrong with
[1:05:24] Speaker 3: deserby ball because it's inherently kind of risky. And when
[1:05:27] Speaker 3: those things do go wrong, you need to be able
[1:05:29] Speaker 3: to bounce back. And they're just not a team that
[1:05:30] Speaker 3: can handle that at all.
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: Do you think that a lot of this is solved
[1:05:33] Speaker 2: by having someone who can score goals? Because as soon
[1:05:36] Speaker 2: as you have the ability to score goals, you can
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: make mistakes. Whereas at the moment, it feels like this
[1:05:40] Speaker 2: is a team playing as though they know they can't
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: afford a mistake. Because as soon as they do, you're
[1:05:44] Speaker 2: inviting a team to sit in, drop deep and play
[1:05:47] Speaker 2: in a low block, which accentuates all the deficiencies that
[1:05:50] Speaker 2: exist already. And you're saying, okay, so if Dominic Solanke
[1:05:54] Speaker 2: is not playing well, what happens? you know, who plays
[1:05:58] Speaker 2: as a nine? Is it Mamouchi? He's not really a nine.
[1:06:01] Speaker 2: They should get Harry Kane back. That would be nice,
[1:06:03] Speaker 2: wouldn't it? That would be good. I just wonder whether
[1:06:06] Speaker 2: until it's tactical to an extent because it feels as
[1:06:10] Speaker 2: if the chances they need to create need to be very,
[1:06:13] Speaker 2: very good chances at the moment because they're not scoring.
[1:06:17] Speaker 2: They have scored now, which is good.
[1:06:19] Speaker 4: Sure.
[1:06:20] Speaker 2: That's a sort of get that statistic done, which alleviates
[1:06:23] Speaker 2: a modicum of pressure, I guess.
[1:06:24] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:06:25] Speaker 2: Next one is just to, you know, win a game.
[1:06:28] Speaker 2: And then that's all of the things done. Well, I
[1:06:30] Speaker 2: feel like they play Man United off the international break.
[1:06:32] Speaker 2: They're going to win that. Well, it's not so much that.
[1:06:35] Speaker 2: I think it's a good game for them because people
[1:06:37] Speaker 2: will just be talking negatively about them. There's no expectation.
[1:06:39] Speaker 2: Go to Old Trafford. Maybe you play well. For sure.
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: United are under a lot of pressure. Carrick's job is...
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: Maybe not in doubt, but it's not secure. I'm doubting it.
[1:06:48] Speaker 2: You're doubting it, sure. And then they have Coventry at
[1:06:51] Speaker 2: home and I think Ipswich afterwards. So it's a nice
[1:06:53] Speaker 2: little run. Obviously, everybody will have their fun because they
[1:06:56] Speaker 2: spend a lot of money and this is a banter
[1:06:58] Speaker 2: era of Premier League discourse. That's fine. That's what it is.
[1:07:01] Speaker 2: But I think there are some positives here if you
[1:07:03] Speaker 2: want to see them.
[1:07:04] Speaker 1: Sure.
[1:07:04] Speaker 2: But there is a big... which also needs to be addressed,
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: which is you've got to score goals, man. You've got
[1:07:11] Speaker 2: to score some goals.
[1:07:11] Speaker 1: You mentioned Coventry. Well done to Coventry for a way
[1:07:13] Speaker 1: win over Nottingham Forest. That's their first victory. I think
[1:07:17] Speaker 1: it was the game that ensured that Spurs go into
[1:07:19] Speaker 1: the international break. Bottom of the league. So there we go.
[1:07:23] Speaker 1: I was wondering, given that they hadn't scored a goal
[1:07:25] Speaker 1: or got any points or done anything, if there might
[1:07:28] Speaker 1: be a new derby there.
[1:07:29] Speaker 2: But maybe not. Maybe not.
[1:07:31] Speaker 4: Maybe not.
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: Right. Let's have a quick break. And when we come back,
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: we're going to talk about What are we talking about?
[1:07:39] Speaker 1: Right, now, yes, the Bundesliga. I'm looking for Bundesliga storylines, Seb.
[1:07:43] Speaker 2: I'm interested. Listen, look at me in the eyes. I've
[1:07:45] Speaker 2: not watched any Bundesliga. Look at me again.
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening. Look at me a third time.
[1:07:50] Speaker 1: You're doing a very good job.
[1:07:52] Speaker 2: Quite good. Quite good.
[1:07:54] Speaker 1: Now, the Bundesliga, of course, is only four games old
[1:07:57] Speaker 1: because they don't work as hard in Germany, and that's why....
[1:08:02] Speaker 2: Wow. You realise that... my German residency is always pending, right?
[1:08:09] Speaker 2: It's always up for debate. I'm working hard to get
[1:08:11] Speaker 2: it cancelled, so Seb's got to move back to London. Now, anyway, no, Germany,
[1:08:15] Speaker 2: I love you. Now, what am I asking you? That's right.
[1:08:20] Speaker 2: I genuinely have no idea.
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: It's only four games old, Seb, as we hit the
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: international break. And by Munich... Not top of the Bundesliga. Now,
[1:08:28] Speaker 1: there's nice. There's a surprise. Not top of the Bundesliga.
[1:08:30] Speaker 1: That honor, of course, goes to Borussia Dortmund, who have
[1:08:33] Speaker 1: a 100% record after four games under former Bayern coach
[1:08:36] Speaker 1: Niko Kovac. So, as a starting point, what I'm looking
[1:08:40] Speaker 1: for from you, I want the top three Seb Stafford
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: Bloor storylines from Germany that I should know about because
[1:08:46] Speaker 1: I've not been watching.
[1:08:47] Speaker 2: Okay. Let's start with Dortmund because that is interesting. Yeah,
[1:08:50] Speaker 2: number one. Because it's been like a thousand days since
[1:08:52] Speaker 2: they were top of the league and more than a
[1:08:54] Speaker 2: thousand days. And they're very good. So they went to
[1:08:57] Speaker 2: Stuttgart this weekend, 1-1-0 which is a difficult place to
[1:09:00] Speaker 2: go in the Bundesliga good Stuttgart team managed by Sebastian
[1:09:04] Speaker 2: Hoeneß won thanks to a Maxi Bayer goal courtesy of
[1:09:08] Speaker 2: a Joe Bellingham assist now that's interesting because Bellingham Bit
[1:09:12] Speaker 2: of a difficult time in Dortmund since he arrived in
[1:09:15] Speaker 2: the summer of 2025. He, obviously, big step up from
[1:09:19] Speaker 2: the championship to the Österbundsliga. That's a little bit of
[1:09:22] Speaker 2: a leap. And the criticism of him, firstly, is that
[1:09:25] Speaker 2: he's not his brother, which is pretty tricky because his
[1:09:27] Speaker 2: brother is one of the best players of the modern era.
[1:09:30] Speaker 2: That is tricky. Also, Joe Bellingham, unlike Jude, is quite
[1:09:34] Speaker 2: a conservative midfielder. He's a recycler of possession. He doesn't
[1:09:37] Speaker 2: produce a lot of, game-changing moments. He's more of a consolidator.
[1:09:42] Speaker 2: He also started the season with a very difficult performance
[1:09:45] Speaker 2: in the German Super Cup against Bayern, gave the ball
[1:09:47] Speaker 2: away a couple of times, surrendered a few chances, was
[1:09:49] Speaker 2: probably responsible for them losing the game, but really nice
[1:09:53] Speaker 2: ball across the box for, yeah, Bayern to score at
[1:09:56] Speaker 2: the back post and a 1-0 win, which is great. Also,
[1:10:00] Speaker 2: Dortmund are interesting. I know, obviously, Bayern Munich are extremely
[1:10:05] Speaker 2: strong and will likely win the league again this year,
[1:10:07] Speaker 2: but Dortmund have got a lot of range in their position.
[1:10:10] Speaker 2: So even in midfield, talks about Bellingham, they signed Joey
[1:10:12] Speaker 2: Firmin from PSV over the summer, who is a super player.
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: He's there. Marcel Sabitzer is still there. Felix Nemecha is
[1:10:20] Speaker 2: still there. They've got a nice sort of group in midfield.
[1:10:23] Speaker 2: Up front, Sergio Garcia is still there. Fabio Silva, remember
[1:10:27] Speaker 2: him from Wolves? He now plays for Dortmund. Doing a
[1:10:29] Speaker 2: pretty good job in sort of a bench role. Also,
[1:10:32] Speaker 2: Kos Karatsis, who was signed from Genk in Belgium. Right.
[1:10:36] Speaker 2: He is a super talented player. What does he play?
[1:10:38] Speaker 2: He's a sort of attacking midfield number 10 type. He's
[1:10:41] Speaker 2: battling for a place with Ethan Nwere, who's on loan
[1:10:45] Speaker 2: from Arsenal. So, Nwere was signed because in pre-season, Dortmund
[1:10:51] Speaker 2: signed a guy called Janis Constantelos from PAOK. And he did, unfortunately,
[1:10:57] Speaker 2: he did his cruciate ligament in his first, in his
[1:10:59] Speaker 2: home debut, which is just terrible for him. That's terrible.
[1:11:01] Speaker 2: It's a competitive Bundesliga debut. And so they needed a
[1:11:04] Speaker 2: solution because he was part of Dortmund's new creative, attractive
[1:11:08] Speaker 2: football plan. Immediately gone. So Manuari comes in. He's done
[1:11:12] Speaker 2: a pretty good job. He's given a couple of sort
[1:11:15] Speaker 2: of six, seven out of ten performances so far, but
[1:11:17] Speaker 2: he looks like a really good fit for this side. Okay.
[1:11:19] Speaker 2: And they look good. Has he got an obligation or
[1:11:22] Speaker 2: an option to buy? Straight loan. Arsenal have the option
[1:11:25] Speaker 2: to recall him in January.
[1:11:27] Speaker 1: So is it the kind of thing where you expect
[1:11:28] Speaker 1: that that guy from Genk might start to get more
[1:11:30] Speaker 1: minutes because there's no point in.
[1:11:32] Speaker 2: No, I expect him to get more minutes anyway because
[1:11:34] Speaker 2: Koretz is probably the longer term. Right. He's the one
[1:11:38] Speaker 2: that has the resale value in three years. Yeah. He's
[1:11:40] Speaker 2: just a lone player. He's a placeholder until Constantelis is
[1:11:43] Speaker 2: fit again. Okay. Very good player he is, but I
[1:11:46] Speaker 2: don't expect he'll stay. Is Wineri playing as a 10
[1:11:48] Speaker 2: or like off the right? He's playing as one of
[1:11:50] Speaker 2: two 10s.
[1:11:51] Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
[1:11:51] Speaker 2: So he's kind of... Oh, a 3-4-3.
[1:11:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:11:53] Speaker 2: Well, it's kind of a 3-2-3-1, I would say, or 3-3-3-1.
[1:12:01] Speaker 2: 3-4-2-1 is probably the fairest shape because you've got some
[1:12:03] Speaker 2: wingbacks in there. Also, let me mark your card with
[1:12:08] Speaker 2: Jean Godot. He's a wide centre-back that they signed from
[1:12:12] Speaker 2: RB Salzburg in the summer. They're actually called Red Bull Salzburg.
[1:12:16] Speaker 2: For fuck's sake. They actually are. He is terrific. He's
[1:12:25] Speaker 2: got a little bit to learn because he's still a teenager.
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: What's his first name? Jean Godot. Jean Godot. Do they
[1:12:31] Speaker 2: sing that? They do not in German. No, they don't
[1:12:33] Speaker 2: do that. That's a shame. I'm going to just cut
[1:12:35] Speaker 2: that straight off. Something got cut. No, it didn't. No,
[1:12:38] Speaker 2: it didn't. So, they're a good story. Bad story, Borussia Mönchengladbach.
[1:12:45] Speaker 2: This is number two now. This is number two. Okay,
[1:12:46] Speaker 2: storyline number two. Gladbach don't look like a big team,
[1:12:50] Speaker 2: but historically they really are. So, if you go back
[1:12:52] Speaker 2: into the 70s, they were Bayern Munich's direct rival. When
[1:12:55] Speaker 2: Bayern Munich were ascending to become what you know today
[1:12:58] Speaker 2: as Bayern Munich, Gladbach were their counterpoint. Yeah. Today, they
[1:13:03] Speaker 2: are in a little bit of a doom spiral. So
[1:13:05] Speaker 2: last season, they were hopeless this time last year and
[1:13:10] Speaker 2: sacked their head coach, Gerardo Siruiani, replaced him with Eugen
[1:13:14] Speaker 2: Polanski as a sort of interim who ended up getting
[1:13:17] Speaker 2: the job full time. He saved them from relegation, steadied
[1:13:20] Speaker 2: the ship. has been sacked or resigned weekend before last
[1:13:24] Speaker 2: because they have not won a game. They have not
[1:13:29] Speaker 2: got a point so far. This is historically their worst
[1:13:32] Speaker 2: start to the Bundesliga. Oh, wow. Yeah, they lost 5-0
[1:13:35] Speaker 2: to Freiburg. Yeah, they lost 5-0 to Freiburg. They lost
[1:13:39] Speaker 2: again at the weekend. They lost 3-4 twice. They look hopeless.
[1:13:46] Speaker 2: They might be about to appoint Alex Blasin, the former St.
[1:13:50] Speaker 2: Pauli head coach, very, very good coach, who should make
[1:13:53] Speaker 2: them better. But Klapac again. Sucking the drain, possibly. More
[1:13:58] Speaker 2: like Borussia Mönchens sad back. Right. Very nice. The thing is, right,
[1:14:02] Speaker 2: the reason this is an interesting point is because the
[1:14:05] Speaker 2: Bundesliga needs its big historical teams, its traditional Vereens, as
[1:14:09] Speaker 2: the Germans would say, because the league needs brands, right?
[1:14:13] Speaker 2: In a league which is dominated by Munich, it's great
[1:14:16] Speaker 2: to have Elfersburg and Heidenheim and Darmstadt and these teams
[1:14:19] Speaker 2: coming up, Paderborn, you've got their first win. this weekend.
[1:14:22] Speaker 3: Right.
[1:14:23] Speaker 2: But you need the big clubs with their history and
[1:14:26] Speaker 2: their fan bases and can ill afford to lose a
[1:14:29] Speaker 2: Gladbach in the same way that they could afford to
[1:14:31] Speaker 2: lose Schalke for a couple of years or they got
[1:14:34] Speaker 2: relegated twice. It's the same in France, right? With Lyon
[1:14:36] Speaker 2: and Marseille going through such terrible things. You need your
[1:14:38] Speaker 2: teams to be competitive. And Gladbach have got work to do.
[1:14:43] Speaker 2: And also they've, whilst, and this is a general point
[1:14:46] Speaker 2: about Bundesliga, a lot of German clubs are very good
[1:14:48] Speaker 2: at selling players, right? They're very good at identifying talent
[1:14:50] Speaker 2: and selling to the Premier League or higher up the
[1:14:52] Speaker 2: Bundesliga or wherever. Yeah. They're not as good at maintaining
[1:14:56] Speaker 2: the quality of the team on the pitch. And so
[1:14:59] Speaker 2: what you get is, a kind of situation where we
[1:15:01] Speaker 2: have diminishing returns. So you keep selling players, you buy
[1:15:04] Speaker 2: younger players to replace them, but then you don't keep
[1:15:07] Speaker 2: the younger player long enough for that player to become
[1:15:08] Speaker 2: a difference maker at the same standard. And so you
[1:15:11] Speaker 2: have a team that does this, this, this, and that
[1:15:13] Speaker 2: is Gladbach at the moment. They are not in a
[1:15:17] Speaker 2: good way at all. Third stand for Gladbach. Number three,
[1:15:20] Speaker 2: storyline number three. I want to talk about Bayern Munich. Oh.
[1:15:24] Speaker 2: This is a way of me crowbarring in a bit
[1:15:27] Speaker 2: of Ballon d'Or chat. Right. I do not have a vote.
[1:15:29] Speaker 2: My vote would go to Hurricane. Right. If so... I
[1:15:32] Speaker 2: was going to ask you that. Is there.
[1:15:34] Speaker 1: Anything in the scuffle, but because Alise and Kane seem
[1:15:37] Speaker 1: to be, you know, perhaps the two most likely to win.
[1:15:41] Speaker 2: Maybe. I would say Kane is one and Alise would
[1:15:47] Speaker 2: be two on that list. Okay. And then Roger is
[1:15:49] Speaker 2: the other player that we're hearing a lot about.
[1:15:51] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:15:51] Speaker 2: And then there's been a sort of, there's been a
[1:15:52] Speaker 2: bit of a campaign from Laminia Mal, obviously in the
[1:15:55] Speaker 2: Spanish media, where he was, a lot of Bayern Munich
[1:15:57] Speaker 2: fans have responded very poorly to, not necessarily what was
[1:16:01] Speaker 2: perceived as some anti-Harry Kane reaction, comments more he was
[1:16:05] Speaker 2: very dismissive of Bayern Munich I don't watch Bayern Munich
[1:16:08] Speaker 2: I'm not interested don't care about that it's like well
[1:16:10] Speaker 2: I mean that's fine but maybe watch Michael Issa he's
[1:16:14] Speaker 2: a pretty good player right like plays the same position
[1:16:17] Speaker 2: as you and has better numbers well I would say
[1:16:19] Speaker 2: if you were measuring and weighing Ballon d'Or candidacy I
[1:16:22] Speaker 2: would put Issa ahead of Lumi and Jamal like I think.
[1:16:25] Speaker 4: He's this is where the popularity contest element of it
[1:16:28] Speaker 4: comes in right because the Classico teams in Spain are
[1:16:32] Speaker 4: like globally more glamorous sure so mbappe and laminia mar
[1:16:37] Speaker 4: will be really high up the list despite the fact
[1:16:39] Speaker 4: that kane and elise like objectively have had much better.
[1:16:42] Speaker 2: Sure yeah i i also think it's it's sort of
[1:16:44] Speaker 2: it's a little bit of a tax on elise's reluctance
[1:16:47] Speaker 2: to play the media game yeah he's not a media
[1:16:49] Speaker 2: facing personality he doesn't want to talk about himself he
[1:16:51] Speaker 2: just wants to play and that's that's fine that's that's
[1:16:53] Speaker 2: his life he we don't own that part of his
[1:16:56] Speaker 2: life so yeah that's to be respected that's why I
[1:16:58] Speaker 2: haven't won any awards as well that's the only reason
[1:17:00] Speaker 2: you're not a promoter at all no not at all
[1:17:03] Speaker 2: I'll leave you with this and then I'll shut up
[1:17:04] Speaker 2: about Bundesliga at least they scored the best hat-trick I've
[1:17:07] Speaker 2: seen in a really long time against Union Berlin on
[1:17:09] Speaker 2: Friday night watch it if you haven't seen it especially
[1:17:12] Speaker 2: the third goal it's work of art absolutely he was a.
[1:17:16] Speaker 1: Real peach in the in the world cup i i
[1:17:18] Speaker 1: feel like pure shit just for michael lisa he's.
[1:17:21] Speaker 2: He is uh i i would vote for kane as
[1:17:24] Speaker 2: a as the ballon d'or winner in terms of sort
[1:17:26] Speaker 2: of the most entertaining player in germany at the moment
[1:17:29] Speaker 2: it's been at least say probably for uh a year
[1:17:31] Speaker 2: or two um the moments he's produced his highlight reels
[1:17:35] Speaker 2: are just yeah unbelievable Well, good for him. Good for Kane.
[1:17:38] Speaker 2: Let's see what happens with the Ballon d'Or. It's coming
[1:17:40] Speaker 2: around pretty.
[1:17:40] Speaker 1: Soon, isn't it?
[1:17:41] Speaker 2: Have a little watch of Michael Lisa. He's a pretty
[1:17:42] Speaker 2: good player. Yeah. Okay. He's a pretty good footballer. It's
[1:17:44] Speaker 2: time to do a little quiz before we finish.
[1:17:47] Speaker 1: Okay.
[1:17:48] Speaker 2: Now, let me tell you how the quiz works. I'm
[1:17:50] Speaker 2: going to give you five clues. Is it that you
[1:17:51] Speaker 2: ask questions and people give answers? You're such a dick.
[1:17:55] Speaker 2: I'm going to give five clues. You'll know I've closed
[1:17:57] Speaker 2: my laptop. Thank you for closing your laptop. I'm going
[1:18:00] Speaker 2: to give five. Would you like to interrupt as well, Kaya?
[1:18:02] Speaker 2: I'll close my laptop. There he goes. He's closed his laptop.
[1:18:04] Speaker 2: You have to interrupt so he knows his place. You
[1:18:06] Speaker 2: have to check his authority. Be brave, Kaya. I'm going
[1:18:10] Speaker 2: to give five clues. How many clues? Five. Thank you, Steve.
[1:18:15] Speaker 1: And where you decide to lock in your answer will
[1:18:17] Speaker 1: determine how many points you get.
[1:18:19] Speaker 2: Okay?
[1:18:20] Speaker 1: Clue number one. This player scored twice last week. Andy,
[1:18:25] Speaker 1: does anyone wish to submit an answer at this stage
[1:18:27] Speaker 1: to lock one in?
[1:18:28] Speaker 2: Last week as in the timeframe of all seven days
[1:18:32] Speaker 2: before yesterday. Just within the last seven days.
[1:18:34] Speaker 1: Okay.
[1:18:34] Speaker 2: Oh, so it could be across multiple games? Yes.
[1:18:38] Speaker 4: Ah.
[1:18:39] Speaker 2: That doesn't help. It's good to know. Okay. Right. No
[1:18:42] Speaker 2: locking answers.
[1:18:43] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:18:43] Speaker 1: Clue number two. This player has made over 200 appearances
[1:18:47] Speaker 1: for their current team.
[1:18:49] Speaker 2: Can I lock in?
[1:18:50] Speaker 1: You want to lock in yeah okay lock in there
[1:18:52] Speaker 1: you can't you can't how do I lock in you
[1:18:54] Speaker 1: have to whisper me whisper the answer whisper into the
[1:18:57] Speaker 1: mic okay Kaya has locked in at clue number two
[1:19:04] Speaker 1: clue number three his father played for a Sveita Bundesliga
[1:19:09] Speaker 1: team Now Seb's looking scared because he thinks, I should
[1:19:13] Speaker 1: know this one. That's exactly what I'm thinking. This has
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: been catered to me and I don't know the answer.
[1:19:16] Speaker 1: A current Spider Bundesliga team or he played in the
[1:19:18] Speaker 1: Spider Bundesliga? His father doesn't play for a current Spider
[1:19:21] Speaker 1: Bundesliga team because his father is retired. No, no, no,
[1:19:23] Speaker 1: but played for a team who are currently... I don't
[1:19:24] Speaker 1: know the answer to that question. When he was in...
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: When he was a player. When he was a player,
[1:19:28] Speaker 1: he played for a team that is now in the
[1:19:31] Speaker 1: Spider Bundesliga. I don't know where they were when he played. Okay,
[1:19:36] Speaker 1: no one's locking in.
[1:19:37] Speaker 2: Fine. Clue number four.
[1:19:39] Speaker 1: He's 35 years old. Lock in. We're all locking in.
[1:19:43] Speaker 2: We're all locking in. Okay. And the fifth clue, of course,
[1:19:46] Speaker 2: was that he played for Borussia Dortmund last season. Would
[1:19:49] Speaker 2: you like to say who it was? It's Pascal Gross.
[1:19:51] Speaker 2: Pascal Gross. That's right. Our FC 27 star of the week,
[1:19:54] Speaker 2: Pascal Gross, who you already kind of mentioned on the episode, Ruben.
[1:19:57] Speaker 4: I already mentioned his age. I already mentioned his age
[1:19:59] Speaker 4: because I Googled it yesterday.
[1:20:02] Speaker 2: He's been so good, hasn't he? Incredible.
[1:20:04] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:20:04] Speaker 2: Absolutely incredible. Runs all day. Very creative. Shoots at both feet.
[1:20:09] Speaker 2: A leader. Versatile.
[1:20:11] Speaker 1: I'm 35. If I could run that much, I would
[1:20:14] Speaker 1: be running more than I am now.
[1:20:16] Speaker 2: I've started running again. And my God. Really? It's not fun,
[1:20:20] Speaker 2: is it? No, I've lapsed into becoming a bit of
[1:20:23] Speaker 2: a sort of sloppy middle-aged type. No. I'm addressing my...
[1:20:27] Speaker 2: I'm addressing my trajectory. Did you like my no? No,
[1:20:30] Speaker 2: I didn't care for that. Did it make it feel
[1:20:32] Speaker 2: as though I was surprised? No. No, because I know
[1:20:36] Speaker 2: what you're trying to do, which kind of neuters the impact.
[1:20:39] Speaker 1: Watch.
[1:20:40] Speaker 2: Let's reverse it, okay?
[1:20:42] Speaker 1: What you said is like me saying like, yeah, yeah,
[1:20:44] Speaker 1: I've actually noticed that I'm a little bit unhealthy recently.
[1:20:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. No, I'm glad you've noticed that. We've been
[1:20:48] Speaker 2: talking about it for a long time. Boom. Touche. Kaya,
[1:20:58] Speaker 2: you locked in. Did you like what I did there?
[1:21:00] Speaker 2: I did. I liked it very much. Kaya, congratulations. You
[1:21:02] Speaker 2: locked in after two clues.
[1:21:03] Speaker 3: Yes.
[1:21:04] Speaker 2: You win the game. Thank you. Well done.
[1:21:06] Speaker 1: You are also my FC27 star of the week.
[1:21:09] Speaker 2: Yay. Was he right though? Did he lock in the
[1:21:11] Speaker 2: correct answer? He locked in the correct answer. Fair enough.
[1:21:12] Speaker 2: Imagine if it had been the wrong answer and that
[1:21:14] Speaker 2: was the response. It's just whoever goes first wins. Well,
[1:21:17] Speaker 2: there we go. Okay, that's the end of the show.
[1:21:19] Speaker 2: Ruben Pinder, thank you. Thank you. Seb Seferblor, thank you.
[1:21:21] Speaker 2: Thank you. Kaya Kynak, thank you. Dankeschön. And Steve was
[1:21:24] Speaker 2: here too. Dankeschön. That's right.
[1:21:26] Speaker 1: Now, on Thursday, I'm joined by Kaya's back. We've got
[1:21:28] Speaker 1: Alex Barker. We've got Colin Miller. There's Ring for Analysis
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: on Saturday. A very special guest.
[1:21:32] Speaker 2: Is that our one? Yeah, that's you, you big rubber
[1:21:35] Speaker 2: face git. That's a great, great episode. Very good. Massive.
[1:21:41] Speaker 2: Something got cut.
[1:21:42] Speaker 1: Wow. Wow.
[1:21:44] Speaker 2: Oh, baby.
[1:21:46] Speaker 4: Wow.
[1:21:47] Speaker 2: Anyway, no live stream. I just couldn't help it.
[1:21:50] Speaker 1: No live stream for a few weeks because of the
[1:21:52] Speaker 1: international break, of course. But three weeks a show should
[1:21:56] Speaker 1: keep you going. That's not what that sentence says.
[1:21:58] Speaker 2: And that's it. Did I miss anything?
[1:21:59] Speaker 1: No.
[1:22:01] Speaker 2: No? Incredible energy to enter the intro for. This is great.
[1:22:04] Speaker 2: See you on Thursday. you

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