# Man Utd_s mentality_ why Spurs will be fine _ Newcastle aura(M4A_128K)

An episode of [Footbal Beyond the Pitch](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/6821032841), 21 Oct 2026, 1 h 24 min.

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## Transcript

[0:03] Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Tifo Football Podcast. I'm Joe
[0:08] Speaker 1: Devine and today I'm delighted to be joined by Ruben Pinder.
[0:12] Speaker 2: Hello Joe.
[0:12] Speaker 1: Alright buddy, how's it going?
[0:13] Speaker 2: Very well, thank you.
[0:14] Speaker 1: We've got Colin Miller here. Hello Joe. Hello there. And
[0:17] Speaker 1: we're joined by Tom Harris.
[0:19] Speaker 2: Hello.
[0:19] Speaker 3: Hello.
[0:19] Speaker 1: Now, what did... Oh, plus Steve Hankey's here. Hello! There
[0:22] Speaker 1: he is. Now, what did we talk about on today's episode? Well,
[0:26] Speaker 1: Manchester United overcame the Tractor Boys Ipswich Town to get
[0:31] Speaker 1: their first points on the board. We try and contextualise
[0:34] Speaker 1: this a little bit and we look at what Ipswich
[0:36] Speaker 1: can offer in the league this season. The Tigers did
[0:39] Speaker 1: another mauling. They came for tea again. There was a
[0:45] Speaker 1: fair bit of talk about tigers in the middle. Did
[0:47] Speaker 1: you know I went to a zoo the other day?
[0:49] Speaker 1: Did I tell everyone?
[0:51] Speaker 2: Which zoo?
[0:51] Speaker 1: I went to Hertfordshire Zoo.
[0:53] Speaker 2: I think you did this bit last week. Did I?
[0:55] Speaker 1: Did I do the Hertfordshire Zoo bit last week?
[0:56] Speaker 3: I think that was just a conversation.
[0:58] Speaker 1: Just a conversation.
[0:59] Speaker 3: We didn't commodify that particular conversation.
[1:01] Speaker 1: Would you like to now? Yeah, why not? It's a
[1:03] Speaker 1: lovely zoo. I saw a tiger there.
[1:06] Speaker 2: Were the tigers happy? And that was a small inclusion.
[1:09] Speaker 1: It was eating a large chunk of meat. And I
[1:15] Speaker 1: was with a small child and the small child said, oh,
[1:17] Speaker 1: it's pulled a bone out of the meat. And I said, well,
[1:20] Speaker 1: safety first, you know. Anyway, Hertfordshire Zoo, lovely spot. There's
[1:25] Speaker 1: a huge animatronic dinosaur area as well. And I squeezed myself.
[1:30] Speaker 1: Imagine this. I squeezed myself into a tiny children's train
[1:34] Speaker 1: to go around and I got sprayed by an animatronic dinosaur.
[1:38] Speaker 1: So everything was fine. Anyway, the Tigers came to tea.
[1:41] Speaker 1: That's right. Oh, yes. But what was that beloved children's
[1:45] Speaker 1: book metaphor for? That's going to be completely lost on
[1:48] Speaker 1: many people, isn't it? Anyway, this took a turn. We
[1:51] Speaker 1: talked about Hull. Then we played a rondo. Can Ruben
[1:53] Speaker 1: achieve an untainted second victory this time around? Stick around
[1:58] Speaker 1: for the rondo to find out. Afterwards, we moved on
[2:01] Speaker 1: to spurs and mentality. Do they have any? Unsure. Although
[2:06] Speaker 1: we are sure that Julian Alvarez doesn't want to join
[2:09] Speaker 1: Arsenal because he called Miguel Adeta to tell him. Which
[2:14] Speaker 1: is just such a funny thing to hear. Newcastle's transformation
[2:18] Speaker 1: that's happened very quickly hasn't it or at least we
[2:20] Speaker 1: think so under the aura farming Matthias Geisler ah he
[2:24] Speaker 1: looks like he gives good hugs writes Steve although he
[2:26] Speaker 1: did a little chest banging didn't he a lovely bit
[2:29] Speaker 1: of chest banging more transformation in the Premier League this
[2:31] Speaker 1: time at Liverpool with Andoni Arreola and we talk about
[2:34] Speaker 1: the return of the traditional winger and then we speak
[2:36] Speaker 1: about Liam de Lappe can Liam de Lappe establish roots
[2:40] Speaker 1: and grow at Nottingham Forest writes Steve oh that's that
[2:44] Speaker 1: one's bad Steve.
[2:45] Speaker 3: I was going to go for tricky, but no, tricky, tricky.
[2:47] Speaker 4: One thing I omitted from the Liam de Lappe chat
[2:51] Speaker 4: that I'll throw in now.
[2:52] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
[2:52] Speaker 4: Quite nice that, obviously, I mentioned his part in the
[2:55] Speaker 4: goal or the move that led to the penalty. Nice
[2:58] Speaker 4: that it came from a throw-in, you know?
[3:01] Speaker 1: Right, yeah, because it's like his dad.
[3:03] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[3:03] Speaker 2: Right, yeah.
[3:04] Speaker 1: No, I like that as well. And then we end
[3:06] Speaker 1: on talking a little bit about Manchester City in Crystal Palace,
[3:09] Speaker 1: that game. I learned a fun historical fact that Crystal
[3:11] Speaker 1: Palace was a real palace. I guess not a palace,
[3:15] Speaker 1: but it was a real building that burned down. We
[3:17] Speaker 1: read an article from a London Fire website. That bit's
[3:21] Speaker 1: very good. Now, there we go. We're back on Thursday
[3:24] Speaker 1: as well. I'm joined by John, JJ and JPB, all
[3:27] Speaker 1: the Js. There's Ring for Analysis out on Saturday this week.
[3:31] Speaker 1: On Sunday, we're live streaming again after Arsenal, Chelsea. Oh,
[3:33] Speaker 1: that's a big one, isn't it? We've got Jack rejoining
[3:36] Speaker 1: us for that episode on Sunday as well, so that
[3:38] Speaker 1: will be good. And, oh, by the way, if you're
[3:41] Speaker 1: watching us on YouTube, please subscribe. And if you're listening
[3:45] Speaker 1: to us on any other platform, please subscribe and leave
[3:49] Speaker 1: a comment. You know? Anything else we could ask them
[3:52] Speaker 1: to do?
[3:52] Speaker 2: Discord.
[3:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[3:54] Speaker 1: Oh, they can join the Discord if they want. Oh,
[3:56] Speaker 1: I should have said. Suggest a Rondo. I got the
[3:59] Speaker 1: Rondo today. I forgot to write down the name of
[4:00] Speaker 1: the person. I got the Rondo today from the Discord.
[4:03] Speaker 1: And that person was... Oh yes, that was JSG26. Thanks
[4:09] Speaker 1: for your rondo, JSG. Well, where else to begin, of course,
[4:22] Speaker 1: than with Manchester United 5-2. Ipswich Town, a Bruno Fernandes hat-trick,
[4:29] Speaker 1: helped turn this game into an ultimately comfortable win, or eventually,
[4:33] Speaker 1: for Man Utd after they went behind in.
[4:35] Speaker 2: The first half.
[4:36] Speaker 1: It was far from a perfect performance, I think it's
[4:38] Speaker 1: worth saying, but it's the first time United have scored
[4:40] Speaker 1: five goals in a game since 2021. How about that? Now,
[4:44] Speaker 1: Michael Carrick said after the game, the biggest thing today
[4:48] Speaker 1: was the mentality of the boys to overcome setbacks. The
[4:51] Speaker 1: mentality and the stubbornness really pleased me, which I think, Ruben,
[4:56] Speaker 1: was probably very important given that they lost their opening
[4:59] Speaker 1: game to Hull. Although, as it transpires, Hull are going
[5:03] Speaker 1: to win the league. Yeah, But maybe, you know, as
[5:06] Speaker 1: we say, like, there were elements of this performance that
[5:09] Speaker 1: weren't great, but it was, I think, regardless, it's nice
[5:13] Speaker 1: to have a 5-2 emphatic win after losing to Hull.
[5:16] Speaker 4: Yeah, I still have my concerns. But, yeah, when Ipswich
[5:22] Speaker 4: took the lead, you start to worry.
[5:24] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[5:25] Speaker 4: Or, you know, the opposite for many fans who quite
[5:27] Speaker 4: enjoy Manchester United doing badly, but.
[5:30] Speaker 1: Particularly because they hadn't really created any chances at that point,
[5:32] Speaker 1: which was the same as the whole game.
[5:33] Speaker 4: Yeah, and they just looked really vulnerable. And then the
[5:36] Speaker 4: momentum of the game seemed to be helped by that
[5:39] Speaker 4: slightly weird Harry Maguire own goal handball decision.
[5:42] Speaker 1: Right.
[5:43] Speaker 4: But yeah, once they kind of settled having even the scoring,
[5:49] Speaker 4: they looked really good in moments, especially like attacking big
[5:52] Speaker 4: spaces as the profiles of attackers that they have really
[5:55] Speaker 4: like to do. And Bruno Fernandes, when he plays like that,
[6:00] Speaker 4: They've always got a chance. But it could have been
[6:03] Speaker 4: very different had they not kind of arrested that if
[6:06] Speaker 4: they hadn't equalized so quickly and that Ipswich had been
[6:10] Speaker 4: able to like have a 1-0 lead for a bit longer.
[6:13] Speaker 4: You wonder how panic might have set in because the
[6:17] Speaker 4: performance against Hull was like really, really poor. But no,
[6:21] Speaker 4: it was good attacking performance in the end, like you say.
[6:24] Speaker 1: Well, this is also why I started with the quote
[6:26] Speaker 1: about mentality, because you often hear footballers saying, it doesn't
[6:30] Speaker 1: matter how you score them, you just have to get
[6:32] Speaker 1: some goals and then it helps reset you mentally. The
[6:34] Speaker 1: reason I started with that is because I thought they
[6:37] Speaker 1: were incredibly fortunate for some of their goals. I mean,
[6:39] Speaker 1: the first one we mentioned there, the one that helped
[6:40] Speaker 1: them equalise so quickly, there was a very unfortunate defensive slip,
[6:46] Speaker 1: which resulted in the opening. No, there was still a
[6:48] Speaker 1: fair amount to do and it was a good goal,
[6:49] Speaker 1: but that was what really ultimately created the opportunity.
[6:54] Speaker 4: And wasn't it really early on? Was it at nil-nil
[6:56] Speaker 4: when Enciso ran through 1v1 and Lammons made that save?
[6:59] Speaker 4: So like, you know, fine margins.
[7:01] Speaker 1: There was that. The goal you mentioned already, which technically
[7:04] Speaker 1: by the rules shouldn't be disallowed, but I think you
[7:07] Speaker 1: can't find someone that doesn't think they should probably change
[7:09] Speaker 1: that rule. I don't know.
[7:11] Speaker 4: It's one of those rules where every time they tweak
[7:13] Speaker 4: the handball rule, it kind of sounds more logical on paper.
[7:16] Speaker 4: And then in practice, it just like outrages everybody.
[7:19] Speaker 2: Do you think it's handball?
[7:20] Speaker 1: Yes.
[7:21] Speaker 4: Okay.
[7:21] Speaker 1: His arms are like on his chest. I think it's
[7:23] Speaker 1: not handball, but I think if it's a goal immediately,
[7:26] Speaker 1: then it's handball.
[7:27] Speaker 2: Wait, this is the worst rule in football, right? No,
[7:30] Speaker 2: the goal's fine to stand by the rules, but the
[7:33] Speaker 2: reason it's the worst rule is because whether it's a
[7:35] Speaker 2: handball or not, is determined by what happens after the event.
[7:39] Speaker 2: That's insane, right? If the player scores the goal, it's
[7:43] Speaker 2: a handball. If he doesn't score the goal or if
[7:45] Speaker 2: he passes and somebody else scores, it's not.
[7:47] Speaker 1: Is it insane though? Yeah, I think it is.
[7:49] Speaker 4: But don't we want more common sense? They've used that
[7:53] Speaker 4: wording because they don't want somebody to handle the ball
[7:58] Speaker 4: and then immediately score having benefited from that handball, right?
[8:04] Speaker 4: And this is like a.
[8:06] Speaker 4: Annoying implementation of that rule but generally i think you
[8:11] Speaker 4: can kind of i don't i don't want to see
[8:13] Speaker 4: that goal disallowed really but i think the wording of
[8:15] Speaker 4: why it has stood obviously jars with.
[8:18] Speaker 2: People but i think i think the reason that that
[8:20] Speaker 2: rule exists and it's bad is that a defender can't
[8:23] Speaker 2: just sort of clear it into somebody's hand and they
[8:25] Speaker 2: can score straight away right and that that is ruled
[8:28] Speaker 2: out but that's as a result of the defender rather
[8:31] Speaker 2: than the attacking player, right? But it's a VAR decision, right?
[8:34] Speaker 2: Because it's a VAR, it's a black and white decision.
[8:37] Speaker 2: If that ball was either going in from Maguire or
[8:39] Speaker 2: it was going wide, and that's ultimately how you end
[8:42] Speaker 2: up with the outcome. Now, I said it's the worst
[8:43] Speaker 2: rule in football. I think it is based on the
[8:45] Speaker 2: reasons in which it's in place. I think it's very
[8:48] Speaker 2: helpful if you're a VAR official or the on-field referee,
[8:51] Speaker 2: you can sort of just lean on that. But I
[8:53] Speaker 2: don't think that's necessarily a good way of determining justice.
[8:58] Speaker 2: I don't mean like handball never will be. There will
[9:00] Speaker 2: always be a bit of argument either way. But I
[9:02] Speaker 2: think with that, making it black and white based on
[9:05] Speaker 2: something that happens after, I just find that quite strange.
[9:07] Speaker 2: Because when you say... It's been given because Maguire's shot
[9:11] Speaker 2: was bad. Whereas if his shot was better, it wouldn't
[9:14] Speaker 2: have been given. That's when you start to think it
[9:16] Speaker 2: feels ridiculous. I'm not sure it was a shot.
[9:19] Speaker 1: I think it might have been a cross.
[9:20] Speaker 2: It's definitely a shot.
[9:21] Speaker 1: It was a shot.
[9:21] Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's just a terrible one. I think he's
[9:24] Speaker 4: quite a big problem, actually. You saw, like we mentioned
[9:27] Speaker 4: Nsiso's run really early on that Laman saved that 1v1.
[9:31] Speaker 4: With the midfield that United fielded, Mainu and Tielemans, both
[9:37] Speaker 4: excellent players in their own right. combination it's not the
[9:39] Speaker 4: most athletic double pivot pairing and that combined with I
[9:44] Speaker 4: don't know how they've ended up another season with Maguire
[9:47] Speaker 4: starting at the back but in a very in a
[9:49] Speaker 4: much more end-to-end transitional league having that lack of acceleration
[9:57] Speaker 4: in those central areas leaves them really really vulnerable because
[10:00] Speaker 4: like at Villa Tielemans was played a bit further forward
[10:05] Speaker 4: and kind of not not as prolific with goals and
[10:09] Speaker 4: assists but kind of similar to like how Bruno Fernandes
[10:11] Speaker 4: kind of plays with like a really solid base of
[10:14] Speaker 4: normally it would be Anana and Kamara maybe behind him
[10:17] Speaker 4: and now he's being asked to do um deeper build-up
[10:21] Speaker 4: stuff but also it is playing like you know when
[10:24] Speaker 4: they lose the ball he's having to stop those uh
[10:26] Speaker 4: those counter-attacks and that wasn't what he had to do
[10:28] Speaker 4: at villa um so while they've replaced casimiro with a
[10:33] Speaker 4: better passer.
[10:34] Speaker 1: And a faster more athletic player somehow yes it's a
[10:37] Speaker 1: low bar not as tall and strong it's a low
[10:39] Speaker 1: bar but he could he can still move more than casimiro.
[10:42] Speaker 4: Can he can but he's still slow sure um It's
[10:45] Speaker 4: very weird, though, because he wears the same number as well.
[10:47] Speaker 4: So when you watch it on TV at a distance,
[10:49] Speaker 4: it looks like the same guy. But yeah, so those
[10:51] Speaker 4: are my concerns with United, despite the fact that, yes,
[10:53] Speaker 4: I'm sure the fans watching this episode are screaming, but
[10:56] Speaker 4: we won.
[10:57] Speaker 1: Well, indeed they did. I will say the other goal
[11:00] Speaker 1: that I thought was a bit fortunate was the fourth
[11:02] Speaker 1: goal with Bruno Fernandes, which was the result of two
[11:06] Speaker 1: or three incredible deflections and it just fell to his feet.
[11:10] Speaker 1: It was the kind of goal that would be scored
[11:11] Speaker 1: against me in a video game, you know, like with
[11:14] Speaker 1: that feeling of, oh. This is typical.
[11:16] Speaker 2: And talking about a video game finish, the Mbwemo miss
[11:19] Speaker 2: from the Rashford Cross, which you have to watch it
[11:23] Speaker 2: several times to see how it didn't go in. I
[11:26] Speaker 2: think Ruben's concerns are right, but I think that team
[11:29] Speaker 2: selection yesterday was sort of by design. There was no
[11:31] Speaker 2: Andre Santos, and then obviously Carlos Buleba isn't fit yet,
[11:35] Speaker 2: and that'll change the dynamic. But I think with Michael
[11:38] Speaker 2: Carrick especially, from a tactical point of view... I think
[11:41] Speaker 2: he kind of like, look, we're at home, we can
[11:44] Speaker 2: take these risks and we'll still score goals, which is
[11:46] Speaker 2: obviously what happened. The physicality issues are there. But I
[11:49] Speaker 2: kind of want to go back to that quote you
[11:50] Speaker 2: brought up about him bringing up the mentality and how
[11:53] Speaker 2: players responded, because I think that's quite important to how
[11:56] Speaker 2: his position is as Manchester United's coach, his temperament. He
[12:00] Speaker 2: obviously went through a lot as a player. He understands
[12:03] Speaker 2: what the club have gone through as a coach as well.
[12:04] Speaker 2: But he always tones things down, certainly publicly. I think
[12:08] Speaker 2: he'll have a different message to the players after the
[12:10] Speaker 2: whole defeat, but I think he's very much a guy
[12:13] Speaker 2: that will impress conferences when he's talking to the media.
[12:15] Speaker 2: He'll be quite boring. He won't generate any noise. He'll
[12:18] Speaker 2: settle things down. He'll make sure that Manchester United don't
[12:21] Speaker 2: get too high or too low off the back of
[12:23] Speaker 2: any individual results. And even, I think, you know, after
[12:26] Speaker 2: that defeat at Hull, Manchester United were obviously very poor
[12:28] Speaker 2: in that game. They looked like they just weren't ready.
[12:31] Speaker 2: They weren't conditioned well enough physically, but... I think that
[12:35] Speaker 2: you look at the reaction in the media and it
[12:37] Speaker 2: was almost like Manchester United, are they in crisis kind
[12:39] Speaker 2: of talk. Whereas I think that's why he's so important
[12:42] Speaker 2: because of the club that they are and the media
[12:45] Speaker 2: that they generate. It's just very important for him to
[12:47] Speaker 2: internally dial that down a bit. And I think that's
[12:50] Speaker 2: what he's done. And I think the players they've signed
[12:51] Speaker 2: as well kind of speak to that. Like they're all
[12:53] Speaker 2: relatively low profile players. I think in general, in that context,
[12:57] Speaker 2: there's no superstars being signed. The transfer fees have been
[13:01] Speaker 2: dialed in quite a bit by United too. So I
[13:03] Speaker 2: think it's more a case of let's try to keep
[13:05] Speaker 2: things level-headed because there just hasn't been enough of that.
[13:08] Speaker 2: In fact, any of it for quite a while in
[13:10] Speaker 2: United's recent history. I think that was out of everything
[13:13] Speaker 2: which happened under Ruben Amorim. That was maybe one of
[13:16] Speaker 2: the biggest things that after any defeat, he would come
[13:18] Speaker 2: out with this quote. they just seem to make things
[13:20] Speaker 2: so much worse.
[13:21] Speaker 1: Right, yeah.
[13:22] Speaker 2: If I'm an external point of view, like in.
[13:23] Speaker 1: Guys, this is the worst thing that has ever happened.
[13:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like you're the worst players. Am I the
[13:28] Speaker 2: worst manager? They might be the worst players. Are you
[13:29] Speaker 2: the worst fan?
[13:30] Speaker 1: I think I'm the worst manager.
[13:31] Speaker 2: It's just that sort of stuff. That sort of stuff
[13:34] Speaker 2: is really damaging.
[13:35] Speaker 4: Actually, did you see that clip of Ruben Amorim in...
[13:38] Speaker 4: Where was it? It was after United played Milan in
[13:41] Speaker 4: pre-season and he walked past some United journalists who he's
[13:45] Speaker 4: obviously like familiar with from his time there. And he
[13:48] Speaker 4: was like, oh, your job must be a lot more
[13:50] Speaker 4: boring now. Yes, and that's the point you're making, right?
[13:52] Speaker 4: Carrick's doing that intentionally.
[13:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And I did say this last season that, yeah,
[13:57] Speaker 2: Manchester United will probably be better in European competition this
[14:01] Speaker 2: year because the type of team they'll be playing will
[14:04] Speaker 2: leave that space, as Ruben mentioned. And I think if
[14:07] Speaker 2: you give Manchester United space and time to play into
[14:10] Speaker 2: and to play vertically, they're probably one of the best
[14:13] Speaker 2: teams in Europe overall.
[14:14] Speaker 3: Right?
[14:14] Speaker 2: If you don't give them that space, they've got issues.
[14:16] Speaker 4: That's what Mboma was so good at at Bramford. So
[14:19] Speaker 4: he's a big space player. Rashford kind of suits that
[14:21] Speaker 4: more as well.
[14:22] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I was going to ask you, Tom,
[14:26] Speaker 1: because something we talked about after the Hull game was
[14:28] Speaker 1: the question of whether or not Man Utd have been, quote,
[14:31] Speaker 1: found out. You know, Michael Carrick had the benefit of
[14:34] Speaker 1: recovering from everything that, you know, was happening under Amarim
[14:37] Speaker 1: last season, but also unshackling Man Utd in an attacking
[14:41] Speaker 1: sense a little bit and catching teams by surprise. they
[14:44] Speaker 1: obviously performed very well. And then there was a long
[14:47] Speaker 1: summer where Premier League coaches were able to spend a
[14:49] Speaker 1: little bit more time looking at Man United and seeing
[14:50] Speaker 1: what they were doing. John suggested, obviously, it's far too
[14:54] Speaker 1: early from last week to say whether this is just
[14:56] Speaker 1: the case or not with Hull. But based on the
[14:58] Speaker 1: way that Hull played against Manchester United, there was that question.
[15:02] Speaker 1: Have they been found out a little bit? Did you
[15:03] Speaker 1: see anything from the Ipswich game which made you think
[15:07] Speaker 1: the same? Or, you know, can we learn anything about
[15:10] Speaker 1: Man United's chances for the rest of the season from
[15:12] Speaker 1: this game?
[15:13] Speaker 3: Yes and no. I think with the whole game, you know,
[15:16] Speaker 3: there is a blueprint there. If you want to kind
[15:18] Speaker 3: of frustrate Manchester United, you can sit deep, you can
[15:21] Speaker 3: squeeze a space in between the lines, you won't allow
[15:23] Speaker 3: Fernandes to get on the ball, you were stopping Vermo
[15:25] Speaker 3: from making those runs, all of those things, fine. But
[15:28] Speaker 3: I think in the Premier League, not a lot of
[15:29] Speaker 3: teams are going to want to do that. And I think.
[15:34] Speaker 1: Someone's just hammering. I think it's a Man United fan.
[15:38] Speaker 1: Stop telling them about the plan! Anyway, let's stop now.
[15:42] Speaker 3: Yeah, not a lot of teams in the Premier League
[15:45] Speaker 3: are going to want to do that. And I think
[15:47] Speaker 3: Ipswich are a good example, right? Because if you look
[15:49] Speaker 3: at how they recruited in the summer, they brought players
[15:51] Speaker 3: in to be able to play this kind of snappy,
[15:54] Speaker 3: aggressive out of possession shape. They kind of were in
[15:57] Speaker 3: a bit of a mid-block. They were looking to press high.
[15:59] Speaker 3: They got midfielders in Lukic and Florentino Luiz, who was
[16:03] Speaker 3: on the bench today. Marcelino Nunes was very energetic as well.
[16:06] Speaker 3: The two wingers, I think you've got Maeda, who was
[16:09] Speaker 3: up and down, very snappy. Fatah, who had that moment
[16:13] Speaker 3: where he got away for the opening goal. And Siso,
[16:15] Speaker 3: moments of magic. Even right at the end, he was
[16:17] Speaker 3: the one who nipped in and kind of won the
[16:19] Speaker 3: ball for the second goal. Emerson can run the channel.
[16:22] Speaker 3: So they've got players and they've built a team to
[16:24] Speaker 3: kind of survive in that more kind of end-to-end frenetic game.
[16:27] Speaker 3: And even though they did have the opportunity to go
[16:29] Speaker 3: to Old Trafford and maybe sit back a little bit,
[16:31] Speaker 3: they didn't want to do that. I think they wanted
[16:32] Speaker 3: to prove that they can, you know, they can compete.
[16:35] Speaker 3: And I think to be fair, that first half, it
[16:37] Speaker 3: was a statement from Ipswich. I think a lot of
[16:38] Speaker 3: people would have come away from that thinking maybe they're
[16:41] Speaker 3: a bit better than we thought, you know, we maybe
[16:42] Speaker 3: give them credit for. So I can understand why O'Neill
[16:45] Speaker 3: did that. But then I think it started to unravel
[16:48] Speaker 3: a little bit and maybe they should have retreated a
[16:50] Speaker 3: little bit after that.
[16:51] Speaker 1: Then it unraveled a lot.
[16:52] Speaker 3: It unraveled a lot.
[16:53] Speaker 2: It really did.
[16:53] Speaker 3: I think the rain kind of really added to that
[16:55] Speaker 3: kind of feeling of catastrophe. But yeah, it's one of
[16:58] Speaker 3: those where United are in this position where they can't,
[17:00] Speaker 3: you know, most teams aren't going to want to see
[17:03] Speaker 3: the initiative in the Premier League. So they can make
[17:05] Speaker 3: the most of that, I think.
[17:06] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[17:08] Speaker 3: So yeah play like Hull but who's going to want
[17:11] Speaker 3: to do that really Chelsea.
[17:13] Speaker 2: I think Chelsea on the basis of what we saw yesterday.
[17:19] Speaker 1: I think there's also one of those scorelines one of
[17:21] Speaker 1: maybe many so far in the Premier League that disguise
[17:24] Speaker 1: a deeper truth about the game there we go now
[17:26] Speaker 1: one of those deeper truths although it's not that deep
[17:30] Speaker 1: is that Futawa who you mentioned absolutely skinned Luke Shaw
[17:34] Speaker 1: for that first had him on toast had him on
[17:36] Speaker 1: toast And I felt a bit sorry for Luke Shaw
[17:40] Speaker 1: in that moment. And I thought everything about that move
[17:42] Speaker 1: reminded me of that thing that Gary Neville said just
[17:45] Speaker 1: before he retired.
[17:46] Speaker 4: Do you remember who was skinning Gary Neville in that game?
[17:49] Speaker 2: No, who was it?
[17:50] Speaker 4: Was it January 2011? Jerome Thomas from West Brom.
[17:55] Speaker 1: There you go. So maybe, and not to criticise Fatao,
[18:00] Speaker 1: but maybe this is a similar moment. Will people remember?
[18:03] Speaker 1: It wasn't like it's Cristiano Ronaldo or something. But I
[18:06] Speaker 1: don't know, I felt as though Fatao was able to
[18:09] Speaker 1: create separation from him far too easily. And then Luke Shaw,
[18:13] Speaker 1: I think a bit of poor decision-making to then get
[18:15] Speaker 1: dragged back in in the way that he did, at
[18:16] Speaker 1: the speed that he did, and then immediately beaten again,
[18:18] Speaker 1: which is like, here's a physical mismatch too. I feel
[18:21] Speaker 1: like everything went wrong. And we know that they were
[18:24] Speaker 1: interested in looking for left-backs earlier in the window. We
[18:27] Speaker 1: saw that there were reports linking them to Lewis Hall.
[18:30] Speaker 1: Do they need to sign a left-back before the window closes?
[18:33] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, they have a couple of right-footed full-backs
[18:36] Speaker 4: who can play there, but I always, when you have
[18:39] Speaker 4: an inverted winger ahead of them, I always think that
[18:41] Speaker 4: kind of can make your attacking shape too narrow and
[18:46] Speaker 4: can be quite unhelpful. It's not really, we should say
[18:49] Speaker 4: it's not a sly on Shaw. Like, I think it's
[18:52] Speaker 4: unsurprising that he is at this level now.
[18:54] Speaker 1: I don't think anyone would have expected Shaw and Rashford
[18:57] Speaker 1: to be the left-sided.
[18:58] Speaker 4: Well, it reminded me, I realised this yesterday when I
[19:00] Speaker 4: saw them like linking up on the left wing together. That,
[19:03] Speaker 4: that left side would have started for united exactly 10
[19:06] Speaker 4: years ago under jose yeah and even maybe the season
[19:10] Speaker 4: before that yeah um although that was when shaw was
[19:12] Speaker 4: injured but you know same uh whatever uh so yes
[19:15] Speaker 4: i think they do need a left back um i
[19:17] Speaker 4: don't know who that will be because um eisler hat
[19:22] Speaker 4: was like kind of put on the spot by peter
[19:23] Speaker 4: schmeichel in some post game or yeah interview and Schmeichel
[19:30] Speaker 4: mentioned the Lewis Hall link so then Jaisner had to
[19:32] Speaker 4: kind of laugh and say no chance so now Newcastle
[19:34] Speaker 4: can't sell him because they make their manager look stupid
[19:36] Speaker 4: if they do.
[19:37] Speaker 1: Yeah I don't know does anyone else think that they
[19:39] Speaker 1: definitely need one definitely don't need one they'll be fine
[19:41] Speaker 1: i'm overreacting.
[19:43] Speaker 2: I think that they will bring one in um but
[19:46] Speaker 2: it might be like a loan deal situation or or
[19:49] Speaker 2: a player who's more of a prospect to provide a
[19:51] Speaker 2: bit of backup i think i think it is interesting
[19:53] Speaker 2: you mentioned the rashford stuff because they obviously do have
[19:55] Speaker 2: a chemistry those two players um in an attacking sense
[19:58] Speaker 2: in a defensive sense i think they are exposed quite a.
[20:00] Speaker 1: Bit they've also got chemistry in the defensive sense.
[20:02] Speaker 2: Yeah it's just to not do it not well not
[20:04] Speaker 2: the right one but i think yeah i mean i
[20:07] Speaker 2: think for a fullback you do need some defensive support
[20:10] Speaker 2: sometimes from the players that are ahead of you. I
[20:12] Speaker 2: don't think Luke Shaw got that a lot against Ipswich
[20:14] Speaker 2: and I think that would be an issue. We've mentioned
[20:17] Speaker 2: United's physicality, maybe Luke Shaw's physicality as well. You don't
[20:20] Speaker 2: want him on one-on-ones quite a lot. I have seen
[20:23] Speaker 2: the Barcelona left-back, Alejandro Balde, mentioned as a potential loan deal.
[20:27] Speaker 2: I don't know if that's going to happen. Has he
[20:29] Speaker 2: fallen out of favour at Barca? I think there's kind
[20:31] Speaker 2: of like an understanding, isn't there, that he might not
[20:34] Speaker 2: get the first team minutes that he wants. Who's starting
[20:37] Speaker 2: for them now? And Balde has had quite a good
[20:40] Speaker 2: relationship with Marcus Rashford at Barcelona, obviously, last year. So
[20:44] Speaker 2: I think that could make sense. But yeah, he's sort
[20:49] Speaker 2: of a guy that could be fine for Barcelona in
[20:51] Speaker 2: La Liga, but... maybe in Champions League, they do.
[20:54] Speaker 4: Rotate a little bit as well. Like Nelson Samedo when
[20:56] Speaker 4: he was at Barcelona.
[20:58] Speaker 1: Is it Joao Cancelo who's starting?
[20:59] Speaker 3: Cancelo Espart, I believe, has started the season in the academy.
[21:02] Speaker 3: He's played a little bit.
[21:05] Speaker 2: He can sort of play everywhere. But Barcelona's players, especially
[21:08] Speaker 2: under Hansi Flick, they tend to move them about quite
[21:11] Speaker 2: a lot.
[21:11] Speaker 4: It feels like Barcelona signed Joao Cancelo every single transfer.
[21:14] Speaker 2: I don't think so.
[21:17] Speaker 3: Nusay Ahmad Rawi, I mean, at the World Cup, remember
[21:19] Speaker 3: when he kind of played left-back for Morocco and turned
[21:21] Speaker 3: into this unbelievable defender. I think he was making kind
[21:24] Speaker 3: of 10-plus clearances per game, some big tackles. Whether he's
[21:27] Speaker 3: a kind of temporary solution, I'm not sure.
[21:29] Speaker 1: He's also someone lacking physicality, though, I would say, at
[21:32] Speaker 1: this stage of his career. It seemed like he might
[21:34] Speaker 1: leave in the summer as well and then didn't. They
[21:38] Speaker 1: should sign a left-footed left-back. They should sign a left-footed left-back. Okay,
[21:42] Speaker 1: a little bit prescient there. throwing forward to our conversation
[21:47] Speaker 1: about same-sided wingers that we'll come to later. Before we
[21:49] Speaker 1: do that, though, let's talk about, well, not specifically about
[21:53] Speaker 1: Coventry 0-1 Hull, but Colin, you wanted to talk about
[21:56] Speaker 1: Hull because there's been, as we see here, there's been
[21:59] Speaker 1: a second mauling in the Premier League, a vicious mauling,
[22:03] Speaker 1: and this time Frank Lampard got it, you know?
[22:05] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[22:06] Speaker 1: And Hull City are second in the... No, it's a
[22:08] Speaker 1: lovely story so far, isn't it? And I mean to
[22:10] Speaker 1: patronise them when I say it that way. It's a
[22:12] Speaker 1: lovely story. But you think it's cool.
[22:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. In terms of Tiger conservation stories, it's probably
[22:21] Speaker 2: right up there.
[22:22] Speaker 1: Can they be conserved for another year in the Premier League? Tigers. Yeah.
[22:27] Speaker 1: They've earned their stripes.
[22:30] Speaker 2: Something like that. That's good.
[22:31] Speaker 3: I like that.
[22:32] Speaker 1: Don't pull their tail because of the children's book. You
[22:35] Speaker 1: know that one?
[22:36] Speaker 2: No, but seriously, they did get mauled.
[22:38] Speaker 1: Come to the tea party with the tiger. Anyway, you
[22:41] Speaker 1: have to talk to.
[22:42] Speaker 2: Stop us going. It is one of the better children's books.
[22:45] Speaker 2: Certainly in my upbringing, it was inspirational.
[22:47] Speaker 4: My mum hated that story when I was a kid,
[22:49] Speaker 4: but we had it on a cassette.
[22:50] Speaker 2: In the car.
[22:51] Speaker 1: The tiger that came to tea.
[22:52] Speaker 4: Yeah, I think she hated the narration or something.
[22:55] Speaker 2: The ending kind of... made it all fall apart a
[22:57] Speaker 2: little bit. It could have been brought together a little bit.
[22:59] Speaker 1: What happens at the end?
[23:00] Speaker 2: I think they just go out for tea as a family.
[23:02] Speaker 1: Do they kill the tiger?
[23:03] Speaker 4: What's the tiger a metaphor for?
[23:05] Speaker 3: Death.
[23:06] Speaker 2: Is it? I don't know.
[23:07] Speaker 1: It's usually a good chance.
[23:08] Speaker 4: Somebody say something that was a metaphor for alcoholism or something.
[23:12] Speaker 1: The tiger that came to tea. The tiger who came
[23:15] Speaker 1: to tea.
[23:16] Speaker 2: Okay.
[23:17] Speaker 1: Okay. Now, of course, I should tell you that this
[23:20] Speaker 1: is the Google AI.
[23:21] Speaker 2: Thanks for the caveat.
[23:23] Speaker 1: While author Judith Kerr maintained that The Tiger Who Came
[23:26] Speaker 1: to Tea is simply a silly bedtime story about a
[23:28] Speaker 1: hungry animal, literary critics and readers have proposed slash decided,
[23:33] Speaker 1: I'm saying, several striking metaphors. Now, here's one. That happened
[23:45] Speaker 1: quicker than usual.
[23:50] Speaker 3: Wow.
[23:51] Speaker 1: Something got cut. Something was cut there. Anyway, it was about...
[23:57] Speaker 1: What's next? Oh, yes, Hull. We didn't even start talking
[24:01] Speaker 1: about Hull. Because of the tiger mauling. Now, that's right.
[24:07] Speaker 1: Tell us about Hull, Connor. Connor, fuck! God damn it!
[24:15] Speaker 1: Keep getting his name wrong. I've known you for years.
[24:18] Speaker 1: All right, let's do this again. Let's do this again.
[24:21] Speaker 1: Something was cut there. We didn't even start talking about
[24:24] Speaker 1: Hull yet. Colin, tell us about this Tiger mauling.
[24:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, so Hull City have made a strong start to
[24:34] Speaker 2: the season, Jim. They've won their first two games, but
[24:36] Speaker 2: most notably, they've done it by keeping two clean sheets.
[24:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[24:39] Speaker 1: No goals conceded.
[24:40] Speaker 2: No goals conceded.
[24:41] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[24:41] Speaker 3: Zero.
[24:41] Speaker 1: Zero.
[24:42] Speaker 2: And when you look at that number last year, Colselli
[24:44] Speaker 2: conceded 66 goals in the championship season. Now that was
[24:48] Speaker 2: the 20th worst defense in the championship. But what's even
[24:52] Speaker 2: more striking is that their XG against was much worse.
[24:55] Speaker 1: Oh really?
[24:56] Speaker 2: It should be like 81, 82, which was the second
[24:58] Speaker 2: from worst defense in the championship. By chance is conceded.
[25:02] Speaker 1: And so, given that they still got promoted, they must have.
[25:04] Speaker 2: Had a thrilling attack. Yes, I remember how they got promoted.
[25:06] Speaker 1: How did they get promoted again?
[25:07] Speaker 2: It was to do with the Southampton... Oh.
[25:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, that was Hull.
[25:10] Speaker 2: I forgot about that. They benefited from that. Right. So,
[25:14] Speaker 2: they thought, well, we probably do need to tighten it
[25:17] Speaker 2: up at the back. They actually did this during the
[25:19] Speaker 2: playoff final against Middlesbrough, which they also won with a
[25:22] Speaker 2: clean sheet. It was that they moved to a back five.
[25:24] Speaker 2: And it was assumed that that was going to be
[25:26] Speaker 2: like a kind of one-off, this is to get a
[25:28] Speaker 2: promotion and then we're going to sort of revisit things
[25:30] Speaker 2: in the season. And during pre-season, they went back to
[25:32] Speaker 2: a back four.
[25:33] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[25:34] Speaker 2: Which kind of threw Manchester United off because after Manchester
[25:36] Speaker 2: United got beat by Hull, Bruno Fernandes came out after
[25:39] Speaker 2: the match. We just weren't expecting them to set up
[25:41] Speaker 2: like this because they played a back four all summer
[25:44] Speaker 2: and we just weren't ready for it. They didn't get
[25:45] Speaker 2: the time and space that they thought they would get
[25:47] Speaker 2: on the ball. Man United were completely thrown. I think
[25:49] Speaker 2: that played into that opening day defeat quite a lot.
[25:52] Speaker 2: And they didn't react to that, of course, but Hull
[25:54] Speaker 2: had that game plan and they were so ruthless with it, right?
[25:58] Speaker 2: They were so dogmatic with their approach to the United
[26:01] Speaker 2: game and with the Coventry game too. You sort of
[26:04] Speaker 2: think Coventry have felt a promoted side. It's a different dynamic.
[26:06] Speaker 2: You're not going to have the same maybe intensity that
[26:09] Speaker 2: you would have for that opening day, that first game back.
[26:11] Speaker 2: You're playing one of the best teams in the league.
[26:13] Speaker 2: This is more of a, these are the games that
[26:14] Speaker 2: are going to determine whether Hull stay up or not.
[26:16] Speaker 2: The games against teams who are also promoted or who
[26:19] Speaker 2: might be battling against relegation but they had exactly the
[26:21] Speaker 2: same setup they went with the back five and they
[26:23] Speaker 2: didn't really concede very many big chances I think I
[26:26] Speaker 2: think the sort of the stats against them were similar
[26:28] Speaker 2: to the United game and that there was they gave
[26:30] Speaker 2: up a lot of possession they gave up a lot
[26:32] Speaker 2: of half chances but because of that that defense they
[26:34] Speaker 2: had and their unwillingness to move out at all it
[26:37] Speaker 2: just didn't allow Coventry any space now I think I
[26:40] Speaker 2: think Coventry are an interesting opposition in this case because
[26:43] Speaker 2: obviously they are a better team in the sense that
[26:46] Speaker 2: they won the league last year. They've obviously invested quite
[26:48] Speaker 2: heavily too, albeit maybe they've got more to bring in.
[26:51] Speaker 2: But Frank Lampard, maybe the criticism that he would have
[26:54] Speaker 2: had is that this is all well and good playing
[26:57] Speaker 2: the way Coventry did in the championship. But when you
[26:59] Speaker 2: get promotion, do you need to then adapt? Because you're
[27:01] Speaker 2: not the protagonist in games anymore. You're always going to
[27:04] Speaker 2: be the underdog or you will be in 90, 95%
[27:06] Speaker 2: of your matches.
[27:07] Speaker 4: That is why I think teams that come up through
[27:09] Speaker 4: the playoffs... I don't know if the numbers back this up.
[27:13] Speaker 4: I'm sure Duncan could tell us. But anecdotally, teams who
[27:18] Speaker 4: come up through the playoffs, I find, tend to be
[27:20] Speaker 4: better at adapting to Premier League football.
[27:22] Speaker 1: That's interesting.
[27:23] Speaker 4: Than the ones that piss the league. You know when
[27:26] Speaker 4: Norwich used to come up every season playing lovely passing
[27:28] Speaker 4: football and then just come bottom? Palace came up in sixth,
[27:32] Speaker 4: scraped into the playoffs, played the most horrible football to
[27:35] Speaker 4: watch for that first season under Pulis, and then grew
[27:37] Speaker 4: from there.
[27:38] Speaker 1: That's interesting. I think that's an interesting point. And also,
[27:40] Speaker 1: I love the way you spat Duncan's name out the
[27:42] Speaker 1: side of your mouth.
[27:43] Speaker 5: Duncan.
[27:43] Speaker 1: Duncan.
[27:44] Speaker 2: No, I love Duncan.
[27:45] Speaker 1: Duncan Alexander.
[27:46] Speaker 2: No, we love Duncan.
[27:47] Speaker 1: No, I know. I just like the way... Tom's boss, yeah?
[27:50] Speaker 1: Tom's boss?
[27:51] Speaker 2: Yeah. That's true.
[27:52] Speaker 1: He's your line manager, right?
[27:53] Speaker 3: He is.
[27:53] Speaker 1: Duncan. Anyway.
[27:55] Speaker 4: That is classic Lampard, though, isn't it? Good in the Championship,
[27:58] Speaker 4: bad in the Premier League.
[27:59] Speaker 2: I think so. I think there's an element. I think
[28:01] Speaker 2: with Frank Lampard, I don't want to talk too much
[28:03] Speaker 2: about Coventry as it's a conversation about holes. But Frank
[28:05] Speaker 2: Lampard is a very, very good coach and a very
[28:08] Speaker 2: good manager getting the club together, right? And getting that
[28:11] Speaker 2: sort of feel-good spirit. But when the going's good, he's great.
[28:14] Speaker 2: I think that when that dynamic changes a little bit,
[28:17] Speaker 2: then there's questions. But I think for Hull, this is
[28:20] Speaker 2: why it's so interesting, because they've literally just completely changed
[28:22] Speaker 2: their setup and the way they play because they're in
[28:24] Speaker 2: the Premier League. They've just done a complete... Like what
[28:27] Speaker 2: Leeds did last year. Yeah, I think so. I think
[28:30] Speaker 2: this is possibly more striking in the sense that this
[28:33] Speaker 2: feels more dogmatic. This feels more... We have total humility
[28:37] Speaker 2: in these games and we're going to set up like
[28:39] Speaker 2: this and it's up to you to break us down. Again,
[28:41] Speaker 2: their goal was a counter-attacking goal in this game rather
[28:43] Speaker 2: than a set piece, but that's obviously going to be
[28:45] Speaker 2: the sort of template that they're going to have this season.
[28:47] Speaker 2: Louis Coyle and Ryan Giles, or Giles, have been two
[28:53] Speaker 2: players who pretty much spent their entire career in the
[28:55] Speaker 2: EFL and the Championship. I think Giles had a bit
[28:57] Speaker 2: of a flutin' in the Premier League a couple of
[28:59] Speaker 2: years ago. but they offer so much energy and they're
[29:02] Speaker 2: perfect for that wing-back system. It is a wing-back system,
[29:05] Speaker 2: but they play slightly deeper, I think. But those roles
[29:07] Speaker 2: are so important when you're playing that formation. Obviously, Ollie McBurney, again,
[29:11] Speaker 2: not somebody who you associate as being a sort of
[29:13] Speaker 2: natural Premier League level player.
[29:15] Speaker 1: But he can do it here.
[29:17] Speaker 2: But that role of just running a lot and making
[29:20] Speaker 2: players uncomfortable.
[29:21] Speaker 1: And being a total dick, right? It's perfect.
[29:24] Speaker 2: Just constantly complaining to the referee, right? That energy is actually...
[29:29] Speaker 2: Those are the unseen things that you can't really measure
[29:32] Speaker 2: through data.
[29:33] Speaker 4: People slightly underrate his quality as a footballer, don't they?
[29:36] Speaker 4: Because of all the kind of aggression that comes with it.
[29:40] Speaker 4: Or associate kind of assuming that he's just a bit
[29:43] Speaker 4: of a clogger. But in the United game, I didn't
[29:45] Speaker 4: watch the Coventry.
[29:47] Speaker 1: He was great.
[29:48] Speaker 4: In the United game, he had some really nice dribbles
[29:50] Speaker 4: and was just constant nuisance, wasn't he? But Hull have
[29:53] Speaker 4: also spent fairly big on some new defenders, right?
[29:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a club record signing at the time,
[30:00] Speaker 2: and it was a club record seal for Rayo Vallecano.
[30:03] Speaker 1: This is proving to be a lovely segue into the Rondo, but.
[30:06] Speaker 6: Do carry on. You've got my interest, Nigel. He was
[30:13] Speaker 6: excellent against United, but again, he was brought in. He
[30:16] Speaker 6: made mistakes last year. He got sent off twice. He's
[30:18] Speaker 6: quite a raw defender, but when you're in a back three...
[30:21] Speaker 6: That kind of rawness can be covered because you've always
[30:24] Speaker 6: got players around you. It's just about closing space and
[30:26] Speaker 6: blocking shots. And Hull are very, very good at that. Look,
[30:29] Speaker 6: the one caveat to all this is that I think
[30:31] Speaker 6: now opposition teams are going to get wise to this
[30:34] Speaker 6: sooner rather than later. They're going to figure out, you know,
[30:36] Speaker 6: we need to find a way around this. We know
[30:38] Speaker 6: what they're going to do. Is this going to be inflexible?
[30:41] Speaker 6: And it could fall apart from there. But look, let's
[30:43] Speaker 6: not play this down. Everyone said, oh, we're going to
[30:46] Speaker 6: get relegated. We're going to finish bottom. They've won two games.
[30:48] Speaker 6: That's as many as Southampton did. a couple of years
[30:51] Speaker 6: ago and they still got 36 games to go. They're
[30:53] Speaker 6: one short of Sheffield United from the season before that.
[30:55] Speaker 6: So teams can come up and just really struggle and
[30:57] Speaker 6: they're not. So I think that's important.
[30:59] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Colin mentioned it, but they are a
[31:01] Speaker 3: fascinating kind of data case study as well because they
[31:03] Speaker 3: have massively overperformed at each end since the start of
[31:06] Speaker 3: last season. So if you look at the expected goal numbers,
[31:09] Speaker 3: the quality of chances they've conceded, they've been expected to
[31:12] Speaker 3: concede around 85.6 goals, so 86 goals. They've only conceded 66.
[31:16] Speaker 3: So that's an overperformance of nearly 20, which is, almost
[31:20] Speaker 3: double the overperformance of any team in that in that
[31:22] Speaker 3: time so obviously that's good goalkeeping solakis i think it
[31:25] Speaker 3: seems to be another good signing the goalkeeper he was
[31:27] Speaker 3: pretty good against coventry it's divine intervention presumably as well
[31:31] Speaker 3: yeah and then going the other way so i'm not
[31:33] Speaker 3: talking about myself just to be clear although i could
[31:36] Speaker 3: intervene if i wanted to but going the other way
[31:38] Speaker 3: as well they've um they've scored around 10 goals more
[31:41] Speaker 3: than expected so they're finishing really well going the other
[31:44] Speaker 3: way so it's a case of yeah they're they're You know,
[31:47] Speaker 3: they're in a kind of hot streak at the moment.
[31:49] Speaker 3: It's how they got into the Premier League. That's how
[31:51] Speaker 3: they started in the Premier League. But then how long
[31:53] Speaker 3: can it actually go on for?
[31:54] Speaker 1: Either that or they've got a really deep... What's the
[32:00] Speaker 1: word I'm trying to... What's the word I'm trying to
[32:03] Speaker 1: find here? Oh, yes. Either that or they've got a
[32:06] Speaker 1: large stock of Felix Felicis. You know what I'm saying?
[32:09] Speaker 1: Potterheads out there. Hey, pot pots. Any other pot pots
[32:13] Speaker 1: in the room? Is that like a lucky spell thing? Yeah.
[32:15] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[32:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[32:17] Speaker 1: Anyway, that's the end of the first bit there. Let's
[32:21] Speaker 1: have a break now. And when we come back, we'll
[32:22] Speaker 1: play Rondo. Yes, what a delightful break. Oh, I should
[32:29] Speaker 1: have said before the break, though. I should have said before.
[32:31] Speaker 1: I was going to make an excellent point about Hull.
[32:34] Speaker 1: I'll make it so quickly.
[32:35] Speaker 2: Watch this now.
[32:36] Speaker 1: They've got Villa coming up, Chelsea, Newcastle, Everton, Fulham. Brentford,
[32:40] Speaker 1: they're going to play all the other Premier League teams,
[32:42] Speaker 1: just FYI.
[32:44] Speaker 2: Twice.
[32:44] Speaker 1: Throwing forward to a future part of this show, we're
[32:47] Speaker 1: going to talk about Newcastle a little bit later. And
[32:50] Speaker 1: something I think interesting about that team is how well
[32:53] Speaker 1: they've played so far against the specific type of opposition
[32:56] Speaker 1: that they've played. Whereas when they come up against maybe
[32:59] Speaker 1: teams who are a little smaller than them, maybe they'll
[33:01] Speaker 1: have to play differently. The nice thing about being Hull
[33:04] Speaker 1: is that it's only ever one way, isn't it? They
[33:06] Speaker 1: play against Coventry, another promoted team, who are a bigger,
[33:09] Speaker 1: better team than they are. So I like the notion
[33:11] Speaker 1: that you can just approach it in exactly the same
[33:13] Speaker 1: way every time. No need to change anything up. Now,
[33:18] Speaker 1: let's play a rondo. Here we go. I've sort of
[33:21] Speaker 1: mentioned already, I've broken the silence over today's rondo already.
[33:24] Speaker 1: What I'm looking for in today's rondo... is as follows.
[33:27] Speaker 1: I'm looking for each Premier League team's record signing. Each
[33:32] Speaker 1: Premier League team's record signing.
[33:33] Speaker 3: Joe, we should say, sorry to, before they get going,
[33:35] Speaker 3: we should say at some point on the show, we
[33:37] Speaker 3: have on Discord and elsewhere, about the last rondo of
[33:40] Speaker 3: these type of shows.
[33:41] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point, Steve.
[33:44] Speaker 1: Because what happened, wasn't it? What happened? was that Ruben,
[33:48] Speaker 1: the baby boy pinder, who, and I'll revive his nickname
[33:51] Speaker 1: just for today because he acted like a baby last week,
[33:53] Speaker 1: didn't he? Like a big baby. We had Jack on,
[33:56] Speaker 1: a debutante, Jack, and I forgot, it's my fault too,
[33:59] Speaker 1: I put my hands up, I forgot to give Jackie's
[34:01] Speaker 1: debutante's grace.
[34:02] Speaker 4: When the referee gives you a penalty that you think
[34:04] Speaker 4: is soft, do you complain?
[34:05] Speaker 2: No.
[34:06] Speaker 1: When the referee gives you hay... Do you make hay?
[34:09] Speaker 1: Is that how hay works?
[34:11] Speaker 2: That's the expression.
[34:11] Speaker 1: When the referee gives you sunshine, you make hay. Anyway,
[34:14] Speaker 1: Ruben revealed over lunch afterwards that he did notice, but
[34:17] Speaker 1: he seized the victory anyway.
[34:19] Speaker 4: Do you know why, though? Because I would have said, no, no,
[34:23] Speaker 4: you get a Davy Thomas Grace, but I had instinctively
[34:25] Speaker 4: already said the correct answer for the team that he
[34:28] Speaker 4: was looking for.
[34:28] Speaker 3: Sure.
[34:29] Speaker 1: It's an even more cynical season, I would say, on
[34:32] Speaker 1: that basis. I'd already given him the answer, so therefore
[34:35] Speaker 1: I stole it back. Anyway, of course that's rescinded. Of
[34:38] Speaker 1: course it is. Kaya's been crying all week about it, saying,
[34:41] Speaker 1: I'm the only one who's won two Rondos. You've got
[34:43] Speaker 1: your chance today. There's no debutantes here, okay? You can
[34:46] Speaker 1: strike with no fear, Ruben.
[34:48] Speaker 4: I'm less confident on this subject.
[34:51] Speaker 1: As you're thinking about it, each Premier League team's record signing,
[34:53] Speaker 1: I'll remind the audience that here's how the rondo works.
[34:55] Speaker 1: I ask that question, we go round in a circle,
[34:57] Speaker 1: we get correct answers. If we get incorrect answers, the
[35:00] Speaker 1: answerer is ejected from the rondo. If I hear an
[35:03] Speaker 1: answer that's already been given, which is a huge problem
[35:06] Speaker 1: in these parts, active listening. Okay, that person is also ejected.
[35:12] Speaker 1: And the final person standing is named Rondo Del Rey. Now,
[35:17] Speaker 1: let's begin with you.
[35:18] Speaker 5: Colin Alexander Izak at Liverpool well Alexander Izak at Liverpool
[35:24] Speaker 5: obviously is a correct answer and I like the way
[35:27] Speaker 5: that you framed that I would like club as well
[35:29] Speaker 5: as player okay Tom.
[35:31] Speaker 3: Yeah this is tough um I'll go Elliot Anderson, Manchester City.
[35:35] Speaker 1: Elliot Anderson for Manchester City is the correct answer. Of course,
[35:38] Speaker 1: 135 million euros I've got here.
[35:40] Speaker 4: I was genuinely trying to think of who theirs would
[35:42] Speaker 4: be and his name.
[35:43] Speaker 2: Did not end up on there.
[35:45] Speaker 1: Ruben. Now, normally you're very, very good at one of those.
[35:48] Speaker 1: At least you've got Palace in here.
[35:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that one.
[35:51] Speaker 4: I'm going to save it though. Morgan Rogers at Chelsea.
[35:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good one. Morgan Rogers, 138 million euros.
[35:58] Speaker 1: I think he might be the biggest name on the list.
[36:00] Speaker 1: He is. Yeah, okay. Collins?
[36:04] Speaker 2: I think I know the Palace one.
[36:06] Speaker 1: Steal it. Thieve it from underneath him.
[36:08] Speaker 2: I'm 90% sure. I don't want to get it wrong,
[36:10] Speaker 2: but I'm going to go for it because of Ruben's
[36:13] Speaker 2: antics last week. I think I'm going to use his antics.
[36:16] Speaker 2: Is it Jorgen Strand-Leiser?
[36:20] Speaker 1: It is. 49.7 million euros. Well done. You took his
[36:22] Speaker 1: legs out from under him. Lovely job. Now, what are
[36:25] Speaker 1: you doing on the internet there? What are you doing
[36:26] Speaker 1: on the internet?
[36:27] Speaker 2: Looking at a list of Premier League teams.
[36:29] Speaker 1: Is that okay? I don't know that that's allowed. I
[36:31] Speaker 1: think that's any information. I think that's very... God, this
[36:34] Speaker 1: guy really wants to cheat.
[36:36] Speaker 2: He's not cheating to look at a list.
[36:38] Speaker 1: It is cheating to look at anything.
[36:41] Speaker 2: Anything.
[36:41] Speaker 1: Okay, fine.
[36:42] Speaker 2: Well, I've closed my laptop now.
[36:43] Speaker 1: Okay, Tom?
[36:44] Speaker 3: Oh, for this team, I'll stop between two. But I
[36:46] Speaker 3: think Sandra Tonali is Tottenham's reputating.
[36:50] Speaker 1: That is true. Sandra Tonali is Tottenham's. Also, something I
[36:53] Speaker 1: only noticed today, Tottenham now the final alphabetical team in
[36:56] Speaker 1: the Premier League because all the.
[36:58] Speaker 4: W teams are gone. Yeah, we need to get that back.
[37:00] Speaker 1: We've got to get some W teams back up for sure. Okay, Ruben,
[37:03] Speaker 1: over to you.
[37:04] Speaker 3: Gosh.
[37:05] Speaker 1: You can't even think of any Premier League teams.
[37:09] Speaker 2: Declan Rice at Arsenal.
[37:10] Speaker 1: There you go. That was a good one.
[37:11] Speaker 3: That was a good one.
[37:12] Speaker 1: Okay, Colin.
[37:14] Speaker 2: It has gone back quite a bit, but Paul Pogba
[37:16] Speaker 2: at Manchester United.
[37:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the older ones on the list. Paul Pogba,
[37:18] Speaker 1: 105 million euros.
[37:19] Speaker 2: Correct, Tom. Ten years ago, though. Weird that they haven't, anyway.
[37:24] Speaker 3: Hopefully, I was listening to Colin. Is it Nobel Mendy
[37:27] Speaker 3: at Hull City?
[37:27] Speaker 1: Nobel Mendy, there you go. I'm surprised you didn't start
[37:30] Speaker 1: with the Hull City one.
[37:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought maybe they'd re-signed since then. I knew
[37:34] Speaker 2: your monthly cup.
[37:35] Speaker 5: No, no, no, it was true.
[37:36] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[37:36] Speaker 2: Ruben?
[37:38] Speaker 1: Liam de Lappe at Nottingham Forest. Yes, Liam de Lappe
[37:40] Speaker 1: is the new Nottingham Forest signing. 52.5 million euros, record signing.
[37:45] Speaker 2: Money well spent.
[37:46] Speaker 1: Colin?
[37:50] Speaker 2: Oh, it's getting hard now.
[37:51] Speaker 1: It's getting hard now.
[37:53] Speaker 2: I think Sangari at Brentford.
[37:57] Speaker 1: Mamadou Sangari is the record signing. 48 million euros. Well done. Now,
[38:02] Speaker 1: quite a lot of them have obviously been from this
[38:04] Speaker 1: summer as well, so that's good. Tom?
[38:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm in trouble now.
[38:07] Speaker 1: Would you like a clue? If.
[38:11] Speaker 2: If that's allowed.
[38:12] Speaker 1: You know all of these teams and players.
[38:14] Speaker 3: How did I fall for that?
[38:16] Speaker 2: Every week.
[38:19] Speaker 3: I'm going to have to go for one I'm not
[38:20] Speaker 3: sure of now. I will go for Sunderland and I
[38:22] Speaker 3: will go for Enzo Le Fay.
[38:26] Speaker 1: It's not Enzo Le Fay. Oh, no, I'm not supposed
[38:29] Speaker 1: to say who it is. I'm not supposed to say
[38:31] Speaker 1: who it is. Okay, I won't say, but I'm sorry, Tom.
[38:34] Speaker 1: You're out of the rondo. Right, Ruben, over to you.
[38:38] Speaker 4: Trying to mentally go through the teams that we've done
[38:41] Speaker 4: because I have been actively listening.
[38:42] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, there are 10 teams remaining, I can tell you.
[38:45] Speaker 3: Okay.
[38:45] Speaker 1: You've been through half of them.
[38:46] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[38:48] Speaker 1: He's not making enough noise.
[38:53] Speaker 4: Can I have.
[38:58] Speaker 2: At Newcastle United.
[39:00] Speaker 3: Yes.
[39:03] Speaker 2: Is it Nico Gonzalez?
[39:04] Speaker 1: No, it's not. It's not Nico Gonzalez.
[39:06] Speaker 2: I just literally went for the most recent guy I
[39:08] Speaker 2: could think of.
[39:09] Speaker 4: It's not.
[39:09] Speaker 1: It's not. You're out.
[39:10] Speaker 2: Am I going to kick myself when I.
[39:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, probably.
[39:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[39:14] Speaker 1: Okay, Colin, if you can get this correct, you will
[39:17] Speaker 1: be named Rondo Del Rey.
[39:22] Speaker 2: I'm not 100% sure anymore. Okay. I want to go
[39:26] Speaker 2: to Aston Villa.
[39:27] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[39:29] Speaker 2: I think it might be Nicholas Jackson.
[39:32] Speaker 1: Has that happened?
[39:33] Speaker 2: Yes.
[39:35] Speaker 1: It has, hasn't it?
[39:36] Speaker 2: Has it happened?
[39:37] Speaker 1: According to Transfermarkt, it had not happened at the time
[39:43] Speaker 1: when I looked at their record signings. Because I remember
[39:47] Speaker 1: that fee being £ 65 million.
[39:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, he has signed.
[39:50] Speaker 1: Okay, okay. In which case, transfer mark simply for whatever
[39:53] Speaker 1: reason has not updated. I had here Johan Manzambi for
[39:57] Speaker 1: 60 million.
[39:57] Speaker 6: Euros, but Nicholas Jackson was 65 million pounds.
[40:00] Speaker 1: Okay, in which case, congratulations, Colin.
[40:03] Speaker 4: Is that higher or lower than 60 million euros?
[40:06] Speaker 2: Do the conversion.
[40:07] Speaker 1: 65 million pounds is definitely higher.
[40:08] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, sorry. I'm clutching his drawers.
[40:11] Speaker 1: As a man who frequently goes to away days in Europe,
[40:14] Speaker 1: I would expect you to know that by now. But anyway,
[40:16] Speaker 1: now let's clap for Colin. Yes, well done, Colin. Well done.
[40:19] Speaker 1: A second win for Colin of the season.
[40:21] Speaker 3: A second win.
[40:22] Speaker 1: What did you say?
[40:22] Speaker 3: A second Rondo win.
[40:23] Speaker 1: It's a second win for now more than Ruben.
[40:26] Speaker 2: Look at that. Two out of two.
[40:27] Speaker 1: Two out of two as well. Very impressive. Kai has
[40:30] Speaker 1: lost some, but he's been on. So I would say
[40:31] Speaker 1: that means you're currently leading in the leaderboard. How about that?
[40:35] Speaker 1: The Sunderland player that you could have had was Habib Diarra.
[40:38] Speaker 3: I never would have got that.
[40:39] Speaker 1: 31 million euros. The Newcastle player was Alexander Izak.
[40:42] Speaker 4: Really?
[40:43] Speaker 2: All that time ago?
[40:44] Speaker 1: 77 million euros. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah, it was.
[40:47] Speaker 1: Bournemouth was Evan Nielsen, you could have had. Any guesses
[40:51] Speaker 1: for Brighton and Hove Albion?
[40:52] Speaker 2: Ruta, Jorginho Ruta.
[40:54] Speaker 1: It was until they signed Luka Vuskovic, the top of
[40:57] Speaker 1: the centre-back.
[40:58] Speaker 2: Of course, how could I forget that?
[40:59] Speaker 1: This summer, 54 million euros. Coventry was Caleb Yerenke, 27
[41:08] Speaker 1: million euros. Everton's is the oldest on this list. Gylfi
[41:12] Speaker 1: Sigurdsson still, 49.4 million euros. That's like, what's that? 10,
[41:18] Speaker 1: 11 years ago. Fulham, you could have had two names
[41:22] Speaker 1: for Fulham. Kevin, you could have had, or Gonzalo Garcia.
[41:25] Speaker 1: They bought both of them for 40 million euros.
[41:28] Speaker 4: I thought about Gonzalo Garcia.
[41:31] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[41:31] Speaker 2: I thought about him. Yeah. And then I just didn't
[41:33] Speaker 2: go with him.
[41:34] Speaker 1: Well, Ipswich and Leeds, both were players that were signed
[41:37] Speaker 1: in the summer. One of them mentioned already, Julio Enciso. Yeah. 30.5
[41:41] Speaker 1: million euros. And then for Leeds.
[41:42] Speaker 3: Trafford.
[41:43] Speaker 1: Goalkeeper.
[41:43] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[41:44] Speaker 1: I think it's the only goalkeeper on our list.
[41:45] Speaker 4: Have you noticed that James Trafford is one of many
[41:47] Speaker 4: goalkeepers now sporting this weird top knot? It's not weird,
[41:51] Speaker 4: but it's strange that they've all done it at the
[41:53] Speaker 4: same time. It's like little ponytail Leeds. David Raya, Alison,
[41:57] Speaker 4: also doing it. Very Beckham when he joined Madrid.
[42:00] Speaker 1: It's pretty old-fashioned though, isn't it? I feel like we
[42:03] Speaker 1: went past that.
[42:03] Speaker 2: It's a bit COVID-y. It's like, lads, get your hair cut.
[42:06] Speaker 1: How about that? Well, there we go. That was the Rondo.
[42:08] Speaker 1: Congratulations to Colin, who's obviously the best at the Rondo
[42:11] Speaker 1: and better than everyone else who's played it and certainly
[42:13] Speaker 1: better than all the people in this room. There we go. Okay, now,
[42:17] Speaker 1: let us move on to discuss Tottenham Hotspur 0-1. To
[42:21] Speaker 1: Newcastle United, yes, that's right, the Sandro Tonali derby ended
[42:26] Speaker 1: in Newcastle's favour as goals from.
[42:28] Speaker 2: The Les Ferdinand derby.
[42:29] Speaker 1: The Les Ferdinand derby. Yeah.
[42:32] Speaker 5: The.
[42:33] Speaker 1: The... Stephen Carr? The Stephen Carr derby. Stephen Carr derby,
[42:37] Speaker 1: what a shout that is. The Stephen Carr derby ended
[42:40] Speaker 1: in Newcastle's favour as goals from Anthony Alanga and Johan Wisser,
[42:45] Speaker 1: both in my fantasy team, thank you very much, continued
[42:49] Speaker 1: with an impressive start to the season. for the much
[42:52] Speaker 1: changed magpies right steve now for tottenham that's two losses
[42:55] Speaker 1: from two the inverse of colin's score to start the
[42:59] Speaker 1: season although they were largely fine in the game and
[43:01] Speaker 1: panic is far from needed i've added that bit there
[43:03] Speaker 1: just as a sort of tone setter because i feel
[43:06] Speaker 1: somewhat you know we discussed earlier the notion that immediately
[43:09] Speaker 1: after man united lost the hull which was pretty bad
[43:11] Speaker 1: on the opening day of the season there were crisis
[43:13] Speaker 1: talks everywhere I feel as though for Spurs, crisis talks,
[43:17] Speaker 1: perhaps not so much needed after this game, but let's see.
[43:20] Speaker 1: Maybe other people will have different opinions. Now, this was
[43:22] Speaker 1: Roberto Di Zerbi's summary of the game. He said, you
[43:25] Speaker 1: can't buy mentality in the transfer market. What do you
[43:29] Speaker 1: think he means by that, Colin?
[43:30] Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, but you... Is that not one
[43:32] Speaker 2: of the qualities that you assess in a player? Isn't
[43:35] Speaker 2: that why they bought Andy? Their mentality of what they
[43:37] Speaker 2: will bring to the club, right? Isn't that why they
[43:39] Speaker 2: bought Andy Robertson?
[43:40] Speaker 1: I thought so.
[43:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, Conor Gallagher.
[43:42] Speaker 1: It's certainly what Chelsea said they were doing with Jordan
[43:44] Speaker 1: Henderson and Danny Welbeck. You know, experience, mentality. I don't know.
[43:49] Speaker 1: It is strange. I think perhaps maybe it's one of
[43:51] Speaker 1: those lost in translation quotes. Maybe what he means is
[43:53] Speaker 1: you can't. by mentality as an abstract concept and place
[43:57] Speaker 1: it onto a pre-existing team.
[43:59] Speaker 2: But is that not what he as a coach as
[44:01] Speaker 2: well is kind of hyped up to bring to players?
[44:04] Speaker 2: Like his intensity and how much he believes in his
[44:07] Speaker 2: players and coaches them and makes them better than what
[44:10] Speaker 2: they are. I think with Deserby there's a little bit
[44:14] Speaker 2: of a myth but some of that is based on
[44:16] Speaker 2: reality as well. Is that common that he can't buy mentality?
[44:21] Speaker 2: How are the players... who have come in and how
[44:24] Speaker 2: the players that are playing, how are they going to
[44:26] Speaker 2: feel about that? I talked about Michael Carrick earlier playing
[44:29] Speaker 2: things down. This kind of feels like a comment that
[44:30] Speaker 2: just sort of, I mean, it might be a distraction,
[44:33] Speaker 2: but if you're a player, I don't think I'd be
[44:35] Speaker 2: very happy hearing that.
[44:36] Speaker 4: Spurs managers do this a lot though, don't they? It
[44:39] Speaker 4: feels like a very, it's not quite as explosive as
[44:41] Speaker 4: that famous Antonio Conte rant where he like just destroyed
[44:45] Speaker 4: the club. But it is a little bit like one
[44:50] Speaker 4: could infer from this comment that he's saying that my
[44:54] Speaker 4: talents and some new signings are not enough to transform
[44:58] Speaker 4: the culture of this club where they are so used
[45:01] Speaker 4: to losing. You know, Jack Pippert wrote last season about,
[45:05] Speaker 4: it sounds so obvious, but like they need to get
[45:07] Speaker 4: out of the habit of losing. Back to back 17th
[45:09] Speaker 4: place finishes. It's like a few nice new players doesn't
[45:13] Speaker 4: change that kind of familiarity of, that kind of intangible
[45:18] Speaker 4: head goes down when you're a goal down kind of thing,
[45:21] Speaker 4: which is his job to fix, but he's not been
[45:23] Speaker 4: there very long.
[45:24] Speaker 1: No, fair enough. Well, I mean, I thought, Tom, I
[45:27] Speaker 1: thought Spurs were rubbish against Brentford in that first game.
[45:30] Speaker 1: I thought this was quite a different game, though, despite
[45:32] Speaker 1: what the scoreline suggests. What do you think?
[45:34] Speaker 3: No, I agree with that. I was just going to
[45:35] Speaker 3: say on the last point, it's kind of without precedent, really,
[45:38] Speaker 3: isn't it, that a team who avoid relegation twice, narrowly,
[45:41] Speaker 3: can then spend that amount of money? So it is
[45:43] Speaker 3: quite an interesting kind of psychological thing to see, and
[45:45] Speaker 3: maybe that's what kind of deserve he's getting at. Yeah.
[45:48] Speaker 3: But yeah, no, I thought they were a lot better
[45:49] Speaker 3: this game. I think Deserby did say afterwards that they
[45:52] Speaker 3: created better chances. Obviously, he would say that. But I
[45:55] Speaker 3: do think that there were moments where they built up
[45:57] Speaker 3: really nicely. I thought with Van de Ven back in
[45:59] Speaker 3: the team, the back line looked a little bit more stable.
[46:01] Speaker 2: For the fans.
[46:02] Speaker 1: Just to be clear. Fake Dutch people in the comments
[46:08] Speaker 1: might tell you that that's wrong. Don't listen to them.
[46:10] Speaker 1: They're not really Dutch. Okay.
[46:12] Speaker 3: How am I saying his... But what about....
[46:17] Speaker 1: Oh. Like, imagine you're Dracula saying... And then say... And
[46:22] Speaker 1: that's against. Don't listen to Dutch people. They are lying.
[46:29] Speaker 3: Well, he, I think, has quite a good game. I
[46:33] Speaker 3: thought there was a really nice move early on when
[46:36] Speaker 3: Matty's tail drawn, quite a good save out of the goalkeeper.
[46:39] Speaker 3: He kind of cut inside and curled it towards the
[46:40] Speaker 3: top corner. And that all came from Spurs doing as
[46:43] Speaker 3: they want to do under Derby, baiting the Newcastle press,
[46:46] Speaker 3: got the ball out to Van Hecker. He kind of
[46:48] Speaker 3: played a really nice pass through the lines into Marmouch
[46:50] Speaker 3: who had dropped. They didn't have that last weekend at Brentford.
[46:53] Speaker 3: Marmouch turns, finds Matty's tail and then off he goes.
[46:55] Speaker 3: And that was a good chance. And they had quite
[46:57] Speaker 3: a few moments where, yeah, Van Hecker was able to
[46:58] Speaker 3: find those passes forward. So, you know, again, I kind
[47:02] Speaker 3: of said this last week. I think they were better
[47:05] Speaker 3: this week and I think they will continue to get better.
[47:08] Speaker 3: But I do think, you know, you can talk about
[47:10] Speaker 3: tactics here. But that mentality thing is definitely a big
[47:13] Speaker 3: issue and it's something that they're going to need a
[47:16] Speaker 3: big win pretty soon, I think, to start to get
[47:18] Speaker 3: over that, to be honest.
[47:19] Speaker 1: I think, I mean, we've sort of touched on this
[47:21] Speaker 1: notion of Spurs maybe being fine or not already. I
[47:25] Speaker 1: do think this conversation becomes about definitions, really. I talked
[47:29] Speaker 1: to our friend of the podcast, producer Nathan Clark from
[47:33] Speaker 1: the Extra Inch podcast the other day and I was
[47:36] Speaker 1: in WhatsApp and I said, oh, watching the game, I
[47:38] Speaker 1: think Spurs will be fine. And he said, I don't
[47:40] Speaker 1: think they will. And then it just turned out we
[47:42] Speaker 1: had different definitions of fine. My definition of fine is
[47:47] Speaker 1: not being relegated for a start. It's not being in
[47:49] Speaker 1: the same situation you were in last season. It's finishing
[47:52] Speaker 1: in the top 10 and sort of looking as though
[47:54] Speaker 1: you've put that problem of losing every home game behind you.
[47:59] Speaker 1: On the basis of watching the performance against Newcastle, I
[48:02] Speaker 1: think that's the case. His point was that you can't
[48:04] Speaker 1: spend £ 400 million or whatever and not finish in the
[48:07] Speaker 1: top six. But my question to that, which I will
[48:10] Speaker 1: ask the room now, is just hypothetically, if we gave
[48:13] Speaker 1: Fulham £ 400 million to spend in one summer all at once,
[48:18] Speaker 1: and then we said, just lob those players on top
[48:20] Speaker 1: of your pre-existing squad, would we expect them to finish
[48:23] Speaker 1: in the top six? I'm not sure that we would.
[48:26] Speaker 1: So I wonder if, you know, the point I'm making is,
[48:28] Speaker 1: are Spurs starting from a position further back than we
[48:30] Speaker 1: maybe are giving them credit for or not? What do
[48:34] Speaker 1: you think, Colin?
[48:35] Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to tie this into a point that
[48:37] Speaker 2: I want to make on Tottenham.
[48:40] Speaker 1: He's running for office.
[48:42] Speaker 2: Tottenham, where are they as a club? What club are they?
[48:46] Speaker 2: What are their ambitions? We talk about, do they want
[48:49] Speaker 2: to qualify for the Champions League? Do they want to
[48:51] Speaker 2: maybe just push for a European spot? Would that be
[48:53] Speaker 2: quite a good season? Where are they? And what I
[48:56] Speaker 2: want to say on this is, where are Tottenham? Because
[48:59] Speaker 2: Tottenham are not a club who are going to attract
[49:03] Speaker 2: the very, very best players. They're just not. Manchester City
[49:07] Speaker 2: might be, Liverpool might be, Chelsea, Manchester United, they're all
[49:10] Speaker 2: naturally above Tottenham in the pecking order for signings. So
[49:14] Speaker 2: we can look at the players Tottenham bring in and
[49:17] Speaker 2: we can be like, well, they are good players, of
[49:19] Speaker 2: course they are. but what sort of players are they
[49:22] Speaker 2: they're not the players that Brentford or Brighton or even
[49:24] Speaker 2: Bournemouth would be signing and I think the reason for
[49:27] Speaker 2: that is that they have a market they have like
[49:28] Speaker 2: their own market they always go externally they have a
[49:31] Speaker 2: scouting network and sort of player data models and everything
[49:34] Speaker 2: else that we've talked about it at length which is
[49:37] Speaker 2: kind of like ahead of others, right? So that's how
[49:39] Speaker 2: they continually reinvent themselves. So Tottenham don't shop in that market, okay?
[49:43] Speaker 2: And they don't really shop in the market where the
[49:45] Speaker 2: very elite players go either. So where does that leave them?
[49:49] Speaker 2: Everyone knows Tottenham have a lot of money. They're a
[49:51] Speaker 2: very rich club and everyone now knows that they're willing
[49:53] Speaker 2: to spend that money this year. So it almost feels
[49:56] Speaker 2: like they're going into the players they attract are neither
[50:00] Speaker 2: really here nor there in the sense that they're not
[50:02] Speaker 2: up-and-coming stars. They don't really provide an environment where those
[50:05] Speaker 2: players can just sort of immediately come into and be
[50:07] Speaker 2: okay because the structure and the culture is already there.
[50:10] Speaker 2: And we talked a little about that already. But they're
[50:13] Speaker 2: also not going to be able to buy the player's
[50:15] Speaker 2: that they would absolutely love to sign because they're slightly
[50:18] Speaker 2: out of reach.
[50:19] Speaker 1: I feel like Sandra Tonali is maybe the exception to
[50:22] Speaker 1: this simply because other big teams were also interested in him.
[50:25] Speaker 1: But he is a little older.
[50:27] Speaker 2: So this is interesting though because ahead of the season,
[50:30] Speaker 2: Newcastle have lost Tonali and Gordon and Bruno Guimaraes and
[50:33] Speaker 2: they lost Isaac last year. But the kind of counter-argument
[50:36] Speaker 2: to that is, well, yeah, that's true. Newcastle are actually
[50:38] Speaker 2: maybe in a similar position to Tottenham, but all those
[50:40] Speaker 2: players wanted to leave Newcastle. They didn't see themselves being
[50:43] Speaker 2: there for a couple of years. As a coach and
[50:46] Speaker 2: as a club environment, you don't want players there who
[50:49] Speaker 2: maybe kind of think, I don't really care if I
[50:51] Speaker 2: move on somewhere else. I feel like that might be
[50:53] Speaker 2: a case with a lot of these Tottenham players at
[50:55] Speaker 2: the minute that I think Sandro Tonali kind of ultimately
[50:58] Speaker 2: wants to go back to Italy. I think he's actually
[51:00] Speaker 2: come out and said that as recently as this summer,
[51:02] Speaker 2: that that's kind of like his long-term ambition. He's a
[51:04] Speaker 2: very good player in the right structure and environment and
[51:07] Speaker 2: he corrects an issue that Tottenham had last season. But
[51:10] Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily sure When you spend 100 million points
[51:14] Speaker 2: on a player like that, what motivation does he have
[51:17] Speaker 2: to make a point? Because he doesn't really have to
[51:20] Speaker 2: prove himself because he's already been kind of proved by
[51:22] Speaker 2: the fee and that fee can also weigh him down.
[51:25] Speaker 2: He's obviously being paid a.
[51:26] Speaker 3: Lot of money.
[51:27] Speaker 2: He's in the best league in the world but at
[51:30] Speaker 2: a club who there's really no expectations for winning trophies
[51:33] Speaker 2: or even challenging for the top three or four like that.
[51:35] Speaker 2: I think that's established that's kind of out of reach.
[51:37] Speaker 2: So what is his ambition? What's motivating him? And this
[51:41] Speaker 2: is the sort of... It should be to drag them
[51:43] Speaker 2: back up. Yeah, but this is like the one or
[51:46] Speaker 2: two percent that is missing from a club like Tottenham.
[51:49] Speaker 2: And we've seen it Tottenham have a bigger budget and
[51:52] Speaker 2: a bigger scope than West Ham did before them and
[51:54] Speaker 2: even Everton five or six years ago where they spend
[51:57] Speaker 2: loads and loads of money but they don't really ever
[51:59] Speaker 2: seem to get any better because they're not shopping in
[52:03] Speaker 2: either of those two markets Everton's a great comparison they
[52:05] Speaker 2: were the best to the rest for ages you know
[52:07] Speaker 2: when they took Walcott and Iwobi from Arsenal and they
[52:11] Speaker 2: would maybe nab Ashley Williams from Swansea and to bolster
[52:15] Speaker 2: their defence and Schneidlin from Southampton but they would just
[52:19] Speaker 2: stay the same and Exactly. And it's like, these are
[52:20] Speaker 2: all good players individually. And there might be some sort
[52:23] Speaker 2: of cohesion between them. But ultimately, there's no thread that
[52:27] Speaker 2: is strong enough to kind of maintain itself. And when
[52:29] Speaker 2: you're like, if you were to put Tottenham in, say,
[52:32] Speaker 2: La Liga or Serie A, they would be in one
[52:34] Speaker 2: of the top positions because they're one of the richest clubs.
[52:36] Speaker 2: But in the Premier League, they're not. So you can
[52:37] Speaker 2: spend all this money. and not necessarily be successful, and
[52:41] Speaker 2: you can struggle game to game.
[52:43] Speaker 4: And this is why I struggled in the Rondo, because
[52:45] Speaker 4: fees just keep going up, but the quality of the
[52:47] Speaker 4: player doesn't. So it's just recency bias, really.
[52:49] Speaker 3: Right, right, right.
[52:50] Speaker 1: You're looking for the best player, but actually, no, it's
[52:52] Speaker 1: just the most recent player.
[52:53] Speaker 2: And by the way, this sort of idea was slightly
[52:55] Speaker 2: inspired by somebody half, I think half-jokingly, last season whenever
[53:00] Speaker 2: West Ham were getting relegated and we were like, well,
[53:02] Speaker 2: as a sort of character club in the Premier League,
[53:04] Speaker 2: there's not really a need for a West Ham anymore
[53:06] Speaker 2: because Tottenham have kind of taken the position of West Ham, right?
[53:09] Speaker 2: Being like this sort of disaffected fan base in a
[53:11] Speaker 2: new stadium with all these shiny things, but none of
[53:14] Speaker 2: it really works. I kind of think that's where Tottenham
[53:16] Speaker 2: are at the minute. I actually deservedly did a really
[53:18] Speaker 2: good job motivating them to stay up last year, but
[53:21] Speaker 2: it kind of feels like, oh, there's this big sigh
[53:23] Speaker 2: of relief. Oh, now we're spending a lot of money again.
[53:26] Speaker 2: But it's sort of like, what is the next step?
[53:28] Speaker 2: And it's so difficult to achieve that. So whenever we
[53:30] Speaker 2: talked about the record for East St. Gary at Brentford,
[53:32] Speaker 2: it's like, why did Tottenham not sign? Why didn't Man Utd?
[53:34] Speaker 2: It's like, well, for him, he's motivated to go into Brentford,
[53:37] Speaker 2: into his structure where he can hit the ground running,
[53:39] Speaker 2: prove himself. There's not massive talk around him. There's not
[53:41] Speaker 2: a massive fee around him. And he can sort of
[53:43] Speaker 2: go about his business quietly. You can make mistakes at
[53:45] Speaker 2: Brentford or Brighton or Bournemouth and not get the amplification
[53:49] Speaker 2: that you do even at a Tottenham, right? So that,
[53:52] Speaker 2: That is why it's difficult. So we can blame them
[53:55] Speaker 2: for maybe not being successful or having a pretty dodgy
[53:57] Speaker 2: transfer record. But I think it's because they operate within
[54:01] Speaker 2: conditions which make it really difficult to get that right.
[54:04] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[54:05] Speaker 2: Okay.
[54:05] Speaker 4: So no, Fulham would not finish in the top six
[54:07] Speaker 4: if they spent four.
[54:08] Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, exactly. I would say also, you know.
[54:11] Speaker 2: I've had a long-winded about saying that.
[54:13] Speaker 1: It was a disappointing weekend for Spurs fans, obviously. But
[54:15] Speaker 1: I'm sure they were hugely cheered by David Ornstein on TNT. saying,
[54:22] Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys saw this clip where
[54:24] Speaker 1: he's talking about Julian Alvarez and he says that Julian
[54:27] Speaker 1: Alvarez called Mikel Arteta to say he doesn't want to come.
[54:32] Speaker 1: Which I think is really funny. Mainly because I imagined
[54:35] Speaker 1: Steve's face when I heard that clip. Imagine calling a
[54:38] Speaker 1: manager and saying, yeah, I don't want to come. Thanks
[54:41] Speaker 1: for your interest, but I'm not interested. That was my
[54:44] Speaker 1: favourite moment of the weekend. There you go. And I'm
[54:46] Speaker 1: sure Spurs fans enjoyed that as well. So it's not
[54:48] Speaker 1: all bad, Spurs fans. Now, What about Newcastle? Very interesting
[54:52] Speaker 1: and exciting start to the season for Newcastle. Anthony Alanga,
[54:57] Speaker 1: Johan Wisse, very good for a second game. Nico Gonzalez
[55:01] Speaker 1: also had his debut, helped set up that first goal.
[55:06] Speaker 1: We sort of mentioned this idea before, Tom, that Newcastle
[55:08] Speaker 1: so far, fantastic against Liverpool, fantastic against Spurs, off the
[55:12] Speaker 1: back of a summer with presumably a very low mood
[55:16] Speaker 1: on the basis of the fact that you have all
[55:18] Speaker 1: these key players that have left. And people really weren't
[55:21] Speaker 1: expecting that much from them. Added to the fact that,
[55:23] Speaker 1: you know, I didn't even know who Matthias Jaisler was.
[55:26] Speaker 1: I feel like people didn't know who this guy was
[55:28] Speaker 1: before he arrived. So no one really knew what to expect.
[55:31] Speaker 1: And it's been, I would say, a pleasant surprise. However,
[55:35] Speaker 1: we talked before about the idea that so far they've
[55:38] Speaker 1: played very well against two bigger teams, arguably bigger, teams
[55:44] Speaker 1: who will want to take the initiative within games. I'm
[55:47] Speaker 1: very curious to see what this Newcastle side will look
[55:50] Speaker 1: like against teams who don't want to take the initiative,
[55:52] Speaker 1: who maybe sit in a lower block.
[55:54] Speaker 3: What do you think? I think that's been the problem
[55:57] Speaker 3: at Newcastle for a while now. I think even under
[55:59] Speaker 3: Eddie Howe, there were issues that I think because of
[56:02] Speaker 3: the culture around Newcastle, the fan base, the kind of
[56:05] Speaker 3: the idea of how they want to play, they always
[56:08] Speaker 3: have to be aggressive, right? That was the problem under
[56:10] Speaker 3: Eddie Howe, I think, is that when they were able
[56:12] Speaker 3: to attack spaces and counter-attack and be kind of playing
[56:16] Speaker 3: your face football, they were really good at it. When
[56:18] Speaker 3: they had to break down a little bit of a
[56:19] Speaker 3: lower block, they kind of ran out of energy a
[56:21] Speaker 3: lot of the times. I think I mentioned it last
[56:23] Speaker 3: week as well. There was a Sunderland home game last season. They,
[56:27] Speaker 3: you know, started really brightly, couldn't take their chances and
[56:30] Speaker 3: then just ran out of steam and Sunderland picked them
[56:32] Speaker 3: off on the break. Brentford did that to them as
[56:34] Speaker 3: well last season. So that is absolutely the problem and
[56:38] Speaker 3: absolutely the thing that we're going to have to wait
[56:39] Speaker 3: and see about. I think Nico Gonzalez is a good
[56:42] Speaker 3: signing in that regard. I think obviously he's got the
[56:45] Speaker 3: physicality as we've seen, but I think he is pretty
[56:47] Speaker 3: good on the ball. He's not going to replicate Bruno Guimaraes,
[56:50] Speaker 3: I don't think, in terms of that tempo setting ability,
[56:52] Speaker 3: but he is going to be able to thread the
[56:54] Speaker 3: ball through, look out to the wings and that kind
[56:56] Speaker 3: of thing. But yeah, I think they are so well
[56:59] Speaker 3: suited to playing on the break with the speed that
[57:01] Speaker 3: they have. It's how do they slow it down when
[57:04] Speaker 3: they need to. And I think that's where the kind of,
[57:07] Speaker 3: I say depth because they have lost a lot of players.
[57:10] Speaker 3: They don't have as much depth, I think, as they
[57:12] Speaker 3: would have hoped at this point. But they do have
[57:13] Speaker 3: a few other profiles on the bench. You know, Nick
[57:15] Speaker 3: Baltimore can come in.
[57:16] Speaker 2: They've got a nice range of strikers, haven't they? They do, yeah.
[57:18] Speaker 4: Like, Osula, Wisser and Baltimore all do kind of different things.
[57:21] Speaker 1: Exactly.
[57:22] Speaker 3: And I think that's what they'll be looking towards. But, yeah,
[57:24] Speaker 3: I mean, again, only two games early, but we heard
[57:27] Speaker 3: a lot of good things about him when he arrived.
[57:29] Speaker 3: A lot of coaches seem to respect him. And I
[57:31] Speaker 3: think the things we've seen so far, obviously, again, two
[57:33] Speaker 3: transitional performances, but Liam Thalma wrote a good piece on
[57:36] Speaker 3: The Athletic this morning about a kind of ploy that
[57:38] Speaker 3: they used when Anthony Alanga would tuck in, Nico Gonzalez
[57:42] Speaker 3: would get on the ball. And as soon as that happened,
[57:44] Speaker 3: Alanga in, the fullback on, and then a long ball
[57:47] Speaker 3: over the top. And that worked a couple of times,
[57:48] Speaker 3: worked for the first goal. So there were clearly ideas there.
[57:52] Speaker 3: But yeah, that is going to be the issue, isn't it?
[57:54] Speaker 4: I think it's a much better fit for Nico Gonzalez
[57:56] Speaker 4: having watched him kind of not do great at City.
[57:58] Speaker 1: I mean, I thought he did okay at City.
[58:00] Speaker 3: I think I don't really know what happened there, to
[58:02] Speaker 3: be honest. I feel like Guardiola and Maresca just didn't
[58:05] Speaker 3: fancy it. And he just didn't really get a fair chance.
[58:08] Speaker 3: Because I think one of City's big problems was, again,
[58:10] Speaker 3: being hit on the transition.
[58:12] Speaker 4: That's why it was a little bit of an emergency sign,
[58:15] Speaker 4: wasn't it?
[58:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it was unfair, for example, to
[58:18] Speaker 3: play Mark Gahey ahead of him in the opening weekend
[58:21] Speaker 3: last season.
[58:21] Speaker 4: I disagree, but.
[58:22] Speaker 1: Well.
[58:24] Speaker 3: I think unfair on Nico Gonzalez because I don't think
[58:26] Speaker 3: he's done anything wrong. I think he spoke very well
[58:28] Speaker 3: about City as well before he left the club. He
[58:29] Speaker 3: wanted to be there. He wanted to fight for his place.
[58:31] Speaker 3: Every time he played, he played well. He scored a
[58:33] Speaker 3: good winning goal in the FA Cup semi-final last year.
[58:35] Speaker 3: I think he's a very, very useful player and I
[58:37] Speaker 3: think he's somebody who will kind of grow in everybody's
[58:40] Speaker 3: kind of minds over the next couple of weeks because
[58:42] Speaker 3: people will realise that he is a good player and
[58:45] Speaker 3: City didn't really get the best out of him.
[58:46] Speaker 4: Seems a great signing in in the context of losing
[58:49] Speaker 4: to nali and bruno gimoresh kind of he has traits
[58:51] Speaker 4: of either of those players um and next to lewis
[58:56] Speaker 4: miley who now has a bigger opportunity to impress because
[59:00] Speaker 4: less competition.
[59:01] Speaker 1: Well speaking of replacing figures who were already there with
[59:04] Speaker 1: new characteristics matthias Geisler, pretty fucking cool, isn't he?
[59:07] Speaker 3: Dude's got aura.
[59:08] Speaker 1: He's got aura. And I feel as though Eddie Howe, okay,
[59:13] Speaker 1: good coach, you know?
[59:14] Speaker 4: He outsourced his aura to his assistant manager, though, and
[59:17] Speaker 4: that guy brought Diary of a CEO aura.
[59:20] Speaker 1: Right. No, that's exactly correct. Whereas Matthias Geisler, he did
[59:24] Speaker 1: a chest butt with one of his players when they
[59:26] Speaker 1: were substituted off.
[59:27] Speaker 4: That entire video... I'm not sure it's the same clip,
[59:30] Speaker 4: but there's like a, is it post-game celebration where he's
[59:33] Speaker 4: doing like a different celebration with each player?
[59:35] Speaker 2: I haven't seen this, no.
[59:37] Speaker 4: And the dap with Johan Wisser is just unreal.
[59:41] Speaker 1: Right. It reminds me of the thing that people always
[59:44] Speaker 1: used to say about Jose Mourinho at Porto and at Chelsea,
[59:47] Speaker 1: that he was young enough that he sort of instinctively
[59:50] Speaker 1: understood the players because he was really only one generation
[59:53] Speaker 1: removed from them versus managers who are maybe two generations
[59:57] Speaker 1: or in Roy Hodgson's case, three or four generations removed
[1:00:00] Speaker 1: from the players, who could never possibly hope to understand,
[1:00:02] Speaker 1: who were already 60 when they were born. Weird how
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: you never lose it. You never lose understanding. But no,
[1:00:08] Speaker 1: he seems like he just seems cool. I'm won over.
[1:00:13] Speaker 4: He's got decent CV as well, right? He won stuff
[1:00:16] Speaker 4: in Saudi Arabia, which a league that a lot of people,
[1:00:21] Speaker 4: myself included, kind of like to deride as being not
[1:00:24] Speaker 4: very competitive, but He won stuff in Saudi with a
[1:00:28] Speaker 4: team that wasn't the one that Ronaldo's on or the
[1:00:31] Speaker 4: one that Benzema's at. So, you know, positive signs for Newcastle. Also, like,
[1:00:37] Speaker 4: with all of their star players leaving, Bruno Guimaraes, Sandro Tonali, Isaac, Gordon,
[1:00:44] Speaker 4: all of them gone. There is now, like, a kind
[1:00:46] Speaker 4: of reset expectation.
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: There was a vacuum for personality as well.
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:00:50] Speaker 1: And he's just plunged right into it, hasn't he? Well,
[1:00:52] Speaker 1: I'm curious to see what else will happen. Let's take another...
[1:00:55] Speaker 1: Advertisement break. Speaking of aura. Yes, we're back from the break.
[1:01:02] Speaker 1: There we go. What a lovely break that was. Now,
[1:01:03] Speaker 1: let's speed through a couple more games before we finish
[1:01:06] Speaker 1: up today. Liverpool 2-2 Nottingham Forest. Now, Liverpool avoided defeat
[1:01:11] Speaker 1: late on for the second successive game as Victor Munoz
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: scored a late equaliser to deny Oliver Glasner's Nottingham Forest
[1:01:18] Speaker 1: a first victory of the season. Now, on balance... Liverpool
[1:01:22] Speaker 1: were perhaps a bit unfortunate in the game with a
[1:01:24] Speaker 1: couple of decisions, but they gave up over 2xG to Forest,
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: obviously a big chunk of that coming from a penalty,
[1:01:31] Speaker 1: in another not totally convincing performance. Antonio Arreola after the
[1:01:36] Speaker 1: game said, I think we have to blame the first half.
[1:01:39] Speaker 1: In the first half, we were being passive without the ball,
[1:01:42] Speaker 1: leaving a lot of distance. In the second half, we
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: were much more intense, much quicker on the ball. with
[1:01:47] Speaker 1: more of a sense of urgency. And it's taking Liverpool
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: a little while to adapt to what Areola wants. We
[1:01:54] Speaker 1: know that so far. We also know that Bradley Barker
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: is going to be arriving. I assume he will start
[1:02:00] Speaker 1: in the next game at the weekend. I don't know.
[1:02:03] Speaker 1: We know also that Areola said he wants his wingers
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: to be game changers. Do you think on the basis
[1:02:08] Speaker 1: of what you have seen of Liverpool so far this season,
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: what you know about Areola, does Bradley Barker... help with
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: that sense of intensity? I've never really thought of him
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: as hugely an out-of-possession player. But I don't know. Or
[1:02:23] Speaker 1: do you think this is just going to take a
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: bit of time for his ideas to bed in?
[1:02:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, I speak more generally because I didn't actually get
[1:02:32] Speaker 3: to see the game on the weekend. But Iriola more generally,
[1:02:35] Speaker 3: you know, I went to quite a few of the
[1:02:36] Speaker 3: first 10 games that he managed at Bournemouth. It took
[1:02:41] Speaker 3: all of those 10 games for him to finally get
[1:02:42] Speaker 3: his first win. And you could kind of see the
[1:02:44] Speaker 3: ideas slowly kind of bedding in and then, you know,
[1:02:47] Speaker 3: the pressing sequences were getting a little bit better game
[1:02:50] Speaker 3: by game until eventually it kind of clicked. I think
[1:02:52] Speaker 3: at Liverpool, they're nearly there, but it has gone a
[1:02:55] Speaker 3: little bit quicker than it did at Bournemouth in terms
[1:02:58] Speaker 3: of the understanding and in terms of you know, being
[1:03:00] Speaker 3: able to generate opportunities. And that partly is because they
[1:03:03] Speaker 3: do have, you know, game changers, as Iriola himself mentioned.
[1:03:07] Speaker 3: I think you've got Florian Wurz, you've got Alexander Izak.
[1:03:09] Speaker 3: They've not been in the greatest form, but they are
[1:03:11] Speaker 3: still can flick a switch and turn it on. And
[1:03:14] Speaker 3: I think that's the idea with Barcala. Obviously somebody with
[1:03:16] Speaker 3: a lot of speed, I remember actually going back to
[1:03:18] Speaker 3: his Rayo Vallecano team, he used to have a kind
[1:03:21] Speaker 3: of a winger on the right who would drift inside
[1:03:23] Speaker 3: and be a little bit more of a playmaker. And
[1:03:24] Speaker 3: then a winger on the left, Alvaro Garcia, who was
[1:03:26] Speaker 3: a little bit more of an up and down, straight
[1:03:28] Speaker 3: line runner. And I think maybe that's what they're going
[1:03:30] Speaker 3: for with, with Barcola. I think they do lose something
[1:03:33] Speaker 3: though if Gakpo goes because I do think Gakpo covers
[1:03:37] Speaker 3: a lot of positions. I think he chops inside and
[1:03:39] Speaker 3: shoots very well even though some people get a little
[1:03:41] Speaker 3: bit frustrated with that. He can come up with moments
[1:03:44] Speaker 3: as he did in that first week against Newcastle.
[1:03:45] Speaker 1: He played on the right in this game as well
[1:03:47] Speaker 1: and he created two of Liverpool's better chances with with right-sided,
[1:03:52] Speaker 1: right-footed crosses from the right, which we mentioned earlier, but
[1:03:56] Speaker 1: it's something that feels as though it's from a hark
[1:03:58] Speaker 1: and gone era. Maybe it's coming back. Liam Tharm said
[1:04:01] Speaker 1: he expected to come back this season. Yeah, maybe.
[1:04:03] Speaker 3: It briefly came up with Savio, actually, at Man City.
[1:04:05] Speaker 3: He played quite well, left-footer and left. But I've, yeah,
[1:04:09] Speaker 3: off the top of my head, I've not seen too
[1:04:10] Speaker 3: much of it. But yeah, I do think it's a risk,
[1:04:13] Speaker 3: Gakpo for Barkola, if that happens, because obviously he's incredibly
[1:04:16] Speaker 3: fast that is his probably his main attribute very skillful
[1:04:19] Speaker 3: in and around the area and can finish very well
[1:04:21] Speaker 3: but you know also just as we were saying with
[1:04:24] Speaker 3: Newcastle he is not as good as Gakpo is maybe
[1:04:28] Speaker 3: coming inside and shooting and kind of changing the game
[1:04:30] Speaker 3: with moments of magic from distance when he's up against
[1:04:33] Speaker 3: a low block then it does make them a little
[1:04:35] Speaker 3: bit more one-dimensional in that aspect but he's clearly I'd
[1:04:38] Speaker 3: say a more talented kind of player when it comes
[1:04:40] Speaker 3: to beating a man but not maybe as versatile as
[1:04:43] Speaker 3: someone like Gakpo.
[1:04:44] Speaker 1: Or maybe as much as a finisher we think as well.
[1:04:46] Speaker 4: Yeah he's more of a dribbler isn't he and the
[1:04:49] Speaker 4: missing ingredient sometimes has been finishing I guess so do
[1:04:53] Speaker 4: we expect Barclay to play on the right then or
[1:04:56] Speaker 4: the left because Victor Munoz prefers the left as well right.
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: I don't know we've talked about this before and I
[1:05:03] Speaker 1: feel as though no one.
[1:05:04] Speaker 2: Knows I think the expectation is Munoz will be on
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: the right more often than not that's where his goal
[1:05:10] Speaker 2: came from yeah I mean he also he's quite a
[1:05:14] Speaker 2: fun player he's far from the finished product I kind
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: of am slightly surprised he's starting for Liverpool but Because
[1:05:21] Speaker 2: I don't think he's at that level yet. I don't
[1:05:23] Speaker 2: think he's ready. I think this might be a little
[1:05:24] Speaker 2: too soon. But he does make things happen. Obviously, that
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: was a lovely turn and finish against Scores.
[1:05:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:05:29] Speaker 2: And obviously won the penalty against Newcastle as well in
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: the opening day. Yeah, the Liverpool stuff is weird though,
[1:05:33] Speaker 2: isn't it? Because when you bring in Barclay and the
[1:05:37] Speaker 2: money you're spending on him, he has to start. Isaac
[1:05:39] Speaker 2: has to start. Vert has to start because of the
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: status that they have. And I do think it is
[1:05:44] Speaker 2: an issue because Liverpool, for years and years and years,
[1:05:48] Speaker 2: especially in the Jurgen Klopp years, right, that they were
[1:05:50] Speaker 2: They always had this sort of planning ahead. Their recruitment
[1:05:54] Speaker 2: was so spot on. It was done at reasonable price points.
[1:05:57] Speaker 2: It felt very sustainable. Whereas the past, I would say
[1:06:02] Speaker 2: maybe two years, if not more, has almost been the
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: reversal of that. Every year they seem to be losing
[1:06:06] Speaker 2: players who contributed in a low key way. Even Luis Diaz. Yeah, well,
[1:06:12] Speaker 2: Luis Diaz was a huge loss. But even Darwin Nunez,
[1:06:15] Speaker 2: who was really derided, actually came up with some pretty
[1:06:17] Speaker 2: big moments for somebody who wasn't starting games. He accepted
[1:06:21] Speaker 2: that role as well, which is really important. Exactly, really
[1:06:24] Speaker 2: important squad players. Curtis Jones was another squad player who
[1:06:27] Speaker 2: I think is a bit of a loss who's not
[1:06:29] Speaker 2: really going to be replaced. And they seem to continually
[1:06:31] Speaker 2: be trying to catch up in multiple places and they're
[1:06:34] Speaker 2: not ahead of the game anymore. And then they kind
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: of overspend on players. And this is one of the
[1:06:39] Speaker 2: things that last year, whenever Liverpool didn't go for Barkley,
[1:06:41] Speaker 2: whenever there were links, one of the reasons that Liverpool
[1:06:44] Speaker 2: gave was, well, you know, we want to have a
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: pathway for Rio Ingram or to get more minutes, not
[1:06:48] Speaker 2: real Ingram or from what I see, none of them
[1:06:50] Speaker 2: looks like a really bright young player who does again,
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: make things happen, but he, he does need that. And
[1:06:54] Speaker 2: I'm kind of thinking that's a direct clash and you're not,
[1:06:57] Speaker 2: he's not going to be first choice at all. Right. Um,
[1:07:01] Speaker 2: I don't know, I just kind of think they've got
[1:07:02] Speaker 2: so many holes in that squad. And the holes aren't
[1:07:05] Speaker 2: an attack, but the balance of attack just feels wrong.
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: It feels like they're trying to shoehorn too many players
[1:07:11] Speaker 2: in and trying to force form and force connections that
[1:07:15] Speaker 2: aren't necessarily natural. I think they've got enough quality to
[1:07:18] Speaker 2: be kind of okay, as in have a similar season
[1:07:22] Speaker 2: to last year. But I'm not really sure, in terms
[1:07:25] Speaker 2: of the wider picture and the longer term, I don't
[1:07:28] Speaker 2: think it bodes overly well.
[1:07:30] Speaker 4: Speaking of wingers who play on their strong side, as
[1:07:33] Speaker 4: it were, Ismail Assar, and I'm not trying to fast
[1:07:36] Speaker 4: forward the conversation.
[1:07:37] Speaker 1: Or sell him to Liverpool.
[1:07:38] Speaker 4: Or sell him to Liverpool. But there have been links. Supposedly,
[1:07:43] Speaker 4: it's not close to being done, but Ismail Assar has
[1:07:46] Speaker 4: deleted all Crystal Palace content from his Instagram page.
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: Really?
[1:07:49] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:07:50] Speaker 4: You know when players throw tantrums like that to try
[1:07:51] Speaker 4: and force a move? So we'll see what happens there.
[1:07:54] Speaker 4: But he's been playing kind of as like a narrow
[1:07:57] Speaker 4: right-sided forward. for Palace but before that at Marseille and
[1:08:01] Speaker 4: Watford played as like a proper winger and he always
[1:08:03] Speaker 4: scores against Liverpool but I wonder if they would like
[1:08:07] Speaker 4: given the business that they've done in the last couple
[1:08:10] Speaker 4: of years whether Liverpool would or the fans would think
[1:08:13] Speaker 4: it's not glamorous enough for that it's too reasonable he's
[1:08:16] Speaker 4: too functional he's too good it makes too much sense.
[1:08:19] Speaker 1: Potentially so I think also looking back at previous years
[1:08:23] Speaker 1: and connecting them to this one Connor O'Neill wrote something
[1:08:25] Speaker 1: interesting in the Athletic about Liverpool which was to say
[1:08:28] Speaker 1: a vulnerability against long balls and difficulties unpicking low blocks
[1:08:32] Speaker 1: ultimately cost predecessor Arnaz Slot his job at the end
[1:08:35] Speaker 1: of last season. And Andoni Uriola ran into those same
[1:08:38] Speaker 1: problems again against Nottingham Forest on Saturday. So it's not just,
[1:08:42] Speaker 1: I think, you know, adapting over time and having the
[1:08:45] Speaker 1: right players and, you know, the squad learning how Andoni
[1:08:47] Speaker 1: Uriola wants to do things with his pressing sequences and
[1:08:50] Speaker 1: all these different patterns. It's also that there are, you know,
[1:08:52] Speaker 1: Liverpool had problems last year that they also still need
[1:08:55] Speaker 1: to solve with that same squad. So it'll be interesting
[1:08:57] Speaker 1: to see how those problems and those solutions pan out
[1:09:01] Speaker 1: over the course of the next few weeks. On the
[1:09:05] Speaker 1: other side of the field, Nottingham Forest, this was a
[1:09:07] Speaker 1: first point of the season for Forest after they lost
[1:09:09] Speaker 1: to Leeds, of course, in the opening weekend. Glasner still
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: getting his squad in place. There could be a couple
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: more arrivals, although Liam de Lappe did come on as
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: a substitute. We mentioned his name in the rondo earlier, Colin.
[1:09:23] Speaker 1: The 23-year-old moved to the city ground in a deal
[1:09:25] Speaker 1: worth an initial £ 45 million to Chelsea with another £ 5
[1:09:28] Speaker 1: million in potential add-ons. Oliver Glasner said, I am convinced
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: that he is the perfect player for us, which I'm
[1:09:34] Speaker 1: kind of convinced by as a statement. What do you think?
[1:09:38] Speaker 2: If you're a player, if you're Liam de Lappe and
[1:09:39] Speaker 2: you hear that, you're going to You're right, I am.
[1:09:43] Speaker 2: He's obviously had a difficult year, a very, very difficult year.
[1:09:46] Speaker 2: I saw him when he's playing for Chelsea. It doesn't
[1:09:50] Speaker 2: look like a Premier League footballer, right? But that fee,
[1:09:54] Speaker 2: that big fee that Forrest paid is based on what
[1:09:56] Speaker 2: he did at Ipswich. And we rewind 12 months. Manchester
[1:09:59] Speaker 2: United wanted him. A lot of other clubs were interested
[1:10:01] Speaker 2: in him as well. Because of what he brings, because
[1:10:04] Speaker 2: of the profile that he brings.
[1:10:05] Speaker 4: It was just an extra bit of context. It was
[1:10:08] Speaker 4: a great market opportunity given his release clause. It was
[1:10:11] Speaker 4: like 30 odd mil.
[1:10:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So it seemed like good value for money.
[1:10:15] Speaker 2: And he, so he brought goals for Epsom, I think
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: he scored 12 goals in a low scoring team in
[1:10:19] Speaker 2: that Premier League year. But he also brings a lot
[1:10:21] Speaker 2: more to the table. Goals aren't really what he's bought.
[1:10:23] Speaker 2: Even for the Nottingham Forest equaliser, the penalty decision, it
[1:10:26] Speaker 2: came from the end of the lap. Sort of quick
[1:10:28] Speaker 2: thinking from a throw in to release the fill back
[1:10:30] Speaker 2: in behind. He's obviously a player with pretty high football intelligence,
[1:10:33] Speaker 2: I think. And I think he is somebody that needs
[1:10:36] Speaker 2: a bit of confidence. The noise around Forest hasn't been
[1:10:39] Speaker 2: particularly high. This summer, obviously, they lost Elliot Anderson, brought
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: in Glasner early. I think really the only other signing
[1:10:45] Speaker 2: apart from De Lappe that's a real first-team player was Diamande. Obviously,
[1:10:49] Speaker 2: they brought in Schlaeger from RB Leipzig, but he was
[1:10:51] Speaker 2: a free agent. So there hasn't been a lot of
[1:10:53] Speaker 2: changes recently. So there's a settled team there. And again,
[1:10:56] Speaker 2: Daniel Munoz now. Yeah, I think those sign-ins are reasonable
[1:11:01] Speaker 2: and sort of sensible. And then you sort of see
[1:11:02] Speaker 2: that they've retained Morgan Gibbs-White, who I thought was really,
[1:11:06] Speaker 2: really good against Liverpool as a really high level player.
[1:11:09] Speaker 2: So yeah, I kind of think they'll be completely fine.
[1:11:11] Speaker 2: I think they're probably looking at it. Okay, it's a
[1:11:13] Speaker 2: slightly slow start, but I think they probably think we
[1:11:16] Speaker 2: can get top half.
[1:11:17] Speaker 4: I mean, they'll be completely fine until Glasner demands very
[1:11:20] Speaker 4: expensive signings in January and Marignac is sacked.
[1:11:22] Speaker 2: But do you know all about Glasner is that whenever
[1:11:25] Speaker 2: they do get into a groove, they can really get
[1:11:29] Speaker 2: that momentum.
[1:11:29] Speaker 4: And on the striker point, Jean-Philippe Mateta didn't look like
[1:11:32] Speaker 4: a Premier League striker before Glasner either. And then he
[1:11:34] Speaker 4: turned into a really good player and has now taken
[1:11:37] Speaker 4: a big dip. So yeah, I think Liam de Lappe
[1:11:39] Speaker 4: suits that team well. I think the problem with Chelsea,
[1:11:43] Speaker 4: especially under Maresca, was that they were too ball-dominant for
[1:11:46] Speaker 4: De Lappe to really do his thing. At Ipswich, he
[1:11:48] Speaker 4: was a bit of a battering ram, kind of charging
[1:11:50] Speaker 4: into big spaces, helping his team get out of the pitch.
[1:11:52] Speaker 4: And at Chelsea, they were trying to find him in
[1:11:54] Speaker 4: small pockets in the box, which wasn't really his thing.
[1:11:57] Speaker 4: So that's a good signing. um i hope they go down.
[1:12:01] Speaker 2: Yeah yeah nice.
[1:12:06] Speaker 3: I was just going to say do you think it
[1:12:07] Speaker 3: is a little bit of a recreation of that palace
[1:12:10] Speaker 3: front three and that you've got in doy who's somebody
[1:12:12] Speaker 3: who's kind of ismail assar like like the winger guy
[1:12:14] Speaker 3: the kind of functional inside forward you've got i guess
[1:12:17] Speaker 3: gibbs white and eza someone like that and then mateta
[1:12:20] Speaker 3: and and there's a really similar profile yeah the one
[1:12:24] Speaker 3: position that is slightly confusing to me in a moment
[1:12:26] Speaker 3: which you might be able to tell me more about
[1:12:28] Speaker 3: is James McAtee playing as one of the eights.
[1:12:31] Speaker 1: Yeah he played alongside Schlager in this game I thought
[1:12:34] Speaker 1: they were very good yeah I mean I didn't I
[1:12:37] Speaker 1: didn't watch it in full so I'm not sure but
[1:12:40] Speaker 1: they were very good I believe you but I believe
[1:12:43] Speaker 1: Tom Moore I always thought of McAtee as more like
[1:12:46] Speaker 1: a kind of floaty 10 maybe just his small stature
[1:12:48] Speaker 1: is confusing me but do you think he can play that.
[1:12:50] Speaker 3: Role Yeah, I mean, again, with a Palace comparison, maybe
[1:12:53] Speaker 3: a bit of a Kamada kind of role where he's
[1:12:55] Speaker 3: a bit of a floater. He's good on the ball,
[1:12:57] Speaker 3: but he's also kind of underrated in terms of his
[1:12:59] Speaker 3: strength and out of possession application, I think. So I
[1:13:02] Speaker 3: think that's the idea there. Yeah.
[1:13:04] Speaker 1: I always like it when someone compares someone I don't
[1:13:07] Speaker 1: know to someone I don't know. I just go, no, no, no.
[1:13:11] Speaker 1: It sounds right.
[1:13:12] Speaker 4: Speaking of De Lappe, actually, he made a really important
[1:13:14] Speaker 4: contribution to the moves that led to the penalty with
[1:13:18] Speaker 4: a really nice touch to keep the ball in play
[1:13:21] Speaker 4: and then the winner throw in and then take it
[1:13:23] Speaker 4: really quickly for Nico Williams, who, you know, got to
[1:13:27] Speaker 4: the ball first and then took a touch and went down.
[1:13:30] Speaker 4: It was one of those penalties that didn't feel there
[1:13:34] Speaker 4: was the Allison one right I don't think it's bad
[1:13:36] Speaker 4: he had his shot if you've had your.
[1:13:39] Speaker 2: Shot the shot was miles wide it wasn't.
[1:13:40] Speaker 1: Yeah I think if you've had your shot it doesn't
[1:13:43] Speaker 1: count the goalkeeper should be allowed to punch you in
[1:13:45] Speaker 1: the face and it should be fine.
[1:13:47] Speaker 4: Like on FIFA 98 but if he had not shot
[1:13:51] Speaker 4: with that touch and just kind of lifted it and
[1:13:54] Speaker 4: then was taken down the move's still going on so
[1:13:56] Speaker 4: that's penalty.
[1:13:56] Speaker 1: Well as we know from what happened with Harry Maguire
[1:13:59] Speaker 1: football is arbitrary and decisions don't have to line up
[1:14:03] Speaker 1: do they Anyway, speaking of arbitrary, Crystal Palace won for
[1:14:07] Speaker 1: Manchester City.
[1:14:08] Speaker 2: I wish we won.
[1:14:09] Speaker 1: For Manchester City. That's true. You wish you won. Manchester
[1:14:12] Speaker 1: City here fractured the fragile Crystal Palace, right, Steve?
[1:14:16] Speaker 2: Defence.
[1:14:17] Speaker 4: A very insensitive joke about a building that burnt down.
[1:14:20] Speaker 1: Is it? 19th century, let it go. I don't get it.
[1:14:25] Speaker 1: Was Crystal Palace a real building?
[1:14:26] Speaker 3: Yeah. Was it?
[1:14:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:14:28] Speaker 1: Did it burn down? Yeah. Was it made of crystals?
[1:14:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a big glass thing.
[1:14:33] Speaker 1: The Great Exhibition of 1830-something was there.
[1:14:36] Speaker 3: The World's Fair.
[1:14:37] Speaker 1: Let's have a quick read about this. The Crystal Palace Fire.
[1:14:40] Speaker 1: Is that it of 1936? No? Yeah. Okay, here we go.
[1:14:46] Speaker 1: Let's read this now. We're on londonfire.gov.uk.
[1:14:50] Speaker 4: If there's a website you can trust about fires in London,
[1:14:53] Speaker 4: it's that one.
[1:14:53] Speaker 1: The Crystal Palace Fire in 1936, one of London's greatest attractions,
[1:14:59] Speaker 1: caught fire. And was burned down. Now, visit Crystal Palace today,
[1:15:04] Speaker 1: and there are only hints of what you would have
[1:15:06] Speaker 1: found there a hundred years ago. At the north end,
[1:15:09] Speaker 1: you'll see sphinxes, steps, pillars, terraces, and arches. What you
[1:15:13] Speaker 1: won't see is the actual Crystal Palace. I didn't know
[1:15:17] Speaker 1: it was a real place. The actual Crystal Palace that
[1:15:19] Speaker 1: gave the area its name, fame, train station, football team,
[1:15:23] Speaker 1: and focal point. Wow, this looks like a really interesting page.
[1:15:27] Speaker 1: And there's some beautiful black and white photos on here.
[1:15:29] Speaker 1: People should read this article, by the way, on london-fire.gov.uk.
[1:15:35] Speaker 1: Crystal Palace Park, 1936. What about that?
[1:15:39] Speaker 2: But Steve's description was accurate. Is this it?
[1:15:43] Speaker 1: This is the Crystal Palace?
[1:15:45] Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's what is now just Crystal Palace Park
[1:15:48] Speaker 4: without that building there.
[1:15:49] Speaker 1: Right, how about that? There you go. Anyway, you learn
[1:15:52] Speaker 1: something new every day, don't you?
[1:15:53] Speaker 3: What were we talking about?
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: Oh, yes. We're saying they fractured the fragile Crystal Palace
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: defence four times. That's Manchester City to build some mini
[1:16:01] Speaker 1: momentum under Enzo Maresca. Much like against Everton, Palace carved
[1:16:06] Speaker 1: out opportunities but did not take them, leaving them winless
[1:16:11] Speaker 1: so far in the league. How about that? Well, do
[1:16:14] Speaker 1: you know what? I'm going to ask you a quick
[1:16:15] Speaker 1: Palace question first.
[1:16:17] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:16:18] Speaker 1: Because, well, I'm going to couch it. I'm going to
[1:16:20] Speaker 1: say something. Watch, you'll understand. Here it goes.
[1:16:24] Speaker 2: I understand.
[1:16:24] Speaker 1: Okay. The question, the overarching question is, have Palace's performances
[1:16:29] Speaker 1: been better than the two defeats in a row imply?
[1:16:32] Speaker 1: But what I'm going to say is, do you think
[1:16:36] Speaker 1: after two games of losing that they're going to get relegated?
[1:16:42] Speaker 1: Do you know what? There's a real relegate-y feel, isn't there?
[1:16:45] Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean by that? The feeling
[1:16:47] Speaker 1: of relegating.
[1:16:48] Speaker 2: However, we thought we were going to go down.
[1:16:51] Speaker 1: Did you know there was a fire?
[1:16:52] Speaker 4: In 2024, we started the season terribly. Didn't win until
[1:16:56] Speaker 4: late October, I think.
[1:16:57] Speaker 1: That's right.
[1:16:57] Speaker 4: And then won the FA Cup in 2025.
[1:16:59] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:16:59] Speaker 2: Same season.
[1:17:00] Speaker 1: So you think you'll win the Champions League?
[1:17:02] Speaker 2: Well, the Europa League.
[1:17:03] Speaker 1: The Europa League, yeah.
[1:17:05] Speaker 2: And then we'll be in the Champions League and the Championship. Oh, yeah.
[1:17:07] Speaker 1: You're in the Europa League, aren't you?
[1:17:08] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:17:09] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:17:09] Speaker 4: Booked my travel to Lyon yesterday.
[1:17:11] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:17:12] Speaker 1: That would be really nice.
[1:17:13] Speaker 2: In the John Texton Derby.
[1:17:15] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:17:16] Speaker 4: But no, we've also been linked with a central midfielder,
[1:17:19] Speaker 4: Urien Timber's twin brother, Quentin Timber, which obviously leads us
[1:17:23] Speaker 4: to have an incredible chant to answer your actual question of, we're.
[1:17:28] Speaker 2: Going down, but signing Timber.
[1:17:30] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:17:31] Speaker 3: Yeah. No.
[1:17:34] Speaker 4: Speaking about how good Hull have been earlier.
[1:17:36] Speaker 1: You've got to be scared, haven't you? Ipswich have already
[1:17:39] Speaker 1: won a game.
[1:17:39] Speaker 2: Coventry are shit.
[1:17:41] Speaker 1: You've got to find three teams that are worse than you,
[1:17:43] Speaker 1: and that's the real scary thing here, isn't it? Because
[1:17:46] Speaker 1: who are the other ones?
[1:17:47] Speaker 2: We spoke with Jack about Fulham last week, didn't we? Oh, God,
[1:17:50] Speaker 2: I know.
[1:17:51] Speaker 4: We've probably looked a bit worse than them. We've still
[1:17:53] Speaker 4: got work to do. So, yes, we could go down
[1:17:57] Speaker 4: this season, especially with all of those extra European games.
[1:18:00] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:18:01] Speaker 1: Spurs haven't got any wins yet.
[1:18:02] Speaker 4: Loads of teams are undercooked and it's very unpredictable. And
[1:18:05] Speaker 4: like Matt wrote in The Athletic, we did have some
[1:18:10] Speaker 4: chances in both of these games before conceding. Really early
[1:18:13] Speaker 4: on in the City game, Walton fizzed this incredible pass
[1:18:16] Speaker 4: to Nketiah. And Nketiah is not Sarr or Mateta. And
[1:18:21] Speaker 4: like the front three of Pino Nketiah and Stran Larsson
[1:18:24] Speaker 4: just doesn't quite feel... up to the level that would
[1:18:27] Speaker 4: have made more of those chances last season right with
[1:18:30] Speaker 4: sarah mattetta in good form but this might be the
[1:18:32] Speaker 4: front three that we have to play for a while right.
[1:18:35] Speaker 1: Did you think about spending 70 million euros on martinelli.
[1:18:38] Speaker 4: Well you see we'd already spent like 50 odd on
[1:18:40] Speaker 4: strand last january right having spent 35 on brennan johnson
[1:18:44] Speaker 4: and then swapped him for dwight McNeill.
[1:18:46] Speaker 1: Well, Spurs, who are 20th, having not scored any goals
[1:18:49] Speaker 1: yet and conceded five, they've spent £ 400 million. Is there
[1:18:52] Speaker 1: a reason that you can't do that?
[1:18:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have it.
[1:18:55] Speaker 3: Got it.
[1:18:55] Speaker 1: Understood.
[1:18:57] Speaker 4: But there's been a lot of change, like, you know,
[1:18:59] Speaker 4: Lacroix leaving, De Sassi's coming on loan, there's another defender
[1:19:02] Speaker 4: coming in on loan who's 18 years old, left-footed, from Atalanta,
[1:19:06] Speaker 4: forgotten his name.
[1:19:07] Speaker 3: Right.
[1:19:08] Speaker 1: One of those.
[1:19:08] Speaker 4: Chaddy Riyad has done his ACL again. So we need
[1:19:12] Speaker 4: a new left-footed defender. JD Cambo will probably move. Richards
[1:19:15] Speaker 4: has been playing in the middle. He's played on the
[1:19:17] Speaker 4: right before. We've got a new right wing back because
[1:19:19] Speaker 4: Munoz is off to Forest. There's so much change.
[1:19:21] Speaker 1: I like that there's still teams in the Premier League
[1:19:24] Speaker 1: that can buy players whose names you can just forget
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: at the beginning because you've never heard them before.
[1:19:28] Speaker 4: I'll remember it for next time. My laptop just died.
[1:19:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a lot of change. You're getting relegated.
[1:19:33] Speaker 2: Maybe.
[1:19:33] Speaker 1: What odds would you put on it?
[1:19:37] Speaker 2: Three, four to one.
[1:19:38] Speaker 1: Oh, God, that's quite, yeah.
[1:19:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:19:41] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[1:19:41] Speaker 2: I'm not a betting man.
[1:19:44] Speaker 1: Now, I wasn't planning on this in the.
[1:19:47] Speaker 1: The podcast, but I'd love to know after two games
[1:19:49] Speaker 1: who we think the relegated teams will be. Tom, relegated teams?
[1:19:54] Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
[1:19:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, I worry about Fulham, to be honest.
[1:19:58] Speaker 3: I like Hablo.
[1:19:59] Speaker 1: My boys. Did you know I'm a Fulham fan?
[1:20:01] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I can see from the script. Always have been.
[1:20:05] Speaker 2: He suits Fulham, doesn't he?
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, he does.
[1:20:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, see? Go on. But you're going down. I think
[1:20:12] Speaker 3: you might be going down as well.
[1:20:13] Speaker 1: And then, yeah.
[1:20:14] Speaker 2: Everton?
[1:20:14] Speaker 3: I'm going to go, no, I'm going to go Hull.
[1:20:17] Speaker 3: I don't think Hull can continue.
[1:20:18] Speaker 2: Really?
[1:20:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, get Hull. God, we're being too nice to Hull.
[1:20:22] Speaker 4: The data guy, the numbers will catch up with them
[1:20:26] Speaker 4: at some point.
[1:20:27] Speaker 1: Okay, that's fine.
[1:20:27] Speaker 3: What do you think, Colin?
[1:20:29] Speaker 2: I think it could be all three perimeter clubs.
[1:20:31] Speaker 3: Right.
[1:20:31] Speaker 2: I hope so. But I do think Fulham and Palace
[1:20:34] Speaker 2: are probably the two you can see getting dragged in.
[1:20:37] Speaker 1: Fulham are going to finish in the top half, guys.
[1:20:38] Speaker 1: There's nothing to worry about.
[1:20:39] Speaker 2: But I think with both of those clubs, they could
[1:20:42] Speaker 2: easily change their head coach within the next two to
[1:20:45] Speaker 2: three months and bring in players in January and things change.
[1:20:49] Speaker 1: I feel like on the basis of Fulham's transfer window,
[1:20:53] Speaker 1: I just don't think you can change the coach after
[1:20:55] Speaker 1: two or three months because they've bought all the players
[1:20:57] Speaker 1: they want. I mean, I feel like they're locked in to.
[1:21:01] Speaker 1: Alvaro Albaloa.
[1:21:02] Speaker 2: I think any Premier League club will panic midway through
[1:21:06] Speaker 2: a season if results are bad. And that's been the
[1:21:09] Speaker 2: one trend.
[1:21:09] Speaker 1: Okay.
[1:21:10] Speaker 2: I do fear for them a little bit.
[1:21:11] Speaker 1: Let's see. Just quickly on Man City, Tom. They won
[1:21:15] Speaker 1: the game with 72% possession. That was on Friday. I
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: think the only other team, we're speaking before the Arsenal game,
[1:21:21] Speaker 1: but the only other team over the weekend to win
[1:21:23] Speaker 1: a game with more possession was Man United. And as
[1:21:26] Speaker 1: we've discussed, that was kind of a weird game. in
[1:21:29] Speaker 1: this shifting new tactical landscape. It does seem early doors
[1:21:33] Speaker 1: that Enzo Maresca is going to stick to the kind
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: of Pep Guardiola consensus as opposed to maybe trying to
[1:21:40] Speaker 1: embrace chaos like a lot of these other managers are doing.
[1:21:42] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's fair to say. I think that
[1:21:44] Speaker 3: is the kind of manager he is. But I'd also
[1:21:46] Speaker 3: say that City do have players to do both. I
[1:21:49] Speaker 3: think when they're playing against a low block, dominating the ball,
[1:21:51] Speaker 3: there's Ryan Cherky, there's Phil Foden in kind of tight spaces.
[1:21:55] Speaker 3: You can bring Kovacic or Rico Lewis in if you
[1:21:57] Speaker 3: want to do that. But then if you want to
[1:21:58] Speaker 3: play more transition football, you've got Kusunov at the back
[1:22:01] Speaker 3: with a bit more pace. You've got Semenyo and O'Reilly.
[1:22:03] Speaker 3: You know, maybe Gakko comes into that. Haaland can play both.
[1:22:06] Speaker 3: You know, he can kind of be the striker in
[1:22:08] Speaker 3: the middle of a kind of congested area or he
[1:22:10] Speaker 3: can lead a counter-attack. So I think, yeah, horses for
[1:22:12] Speaker 3: horses a little bit. But I thought they looked really good.
[1:22:17] Speaker 3: I think there was an interesting kind of little bit
[1:22:19] Speaker 3: that Maresca seemed to do with Guardiola kind of playing
[1:22:21] Speaker 3: him as a number 10, pushing him up. And he
[1:22:23] Speaker 3: was alongside Chirky, which I thought worked pretty well.
[1:22:26] Speaker 2: That's mental, isn't it?
[1:22:27] Speaker 4: He was like a centre-back signed for 70-odd million pounds,
[1:22:30] Speaker 4: plays at left-back sometimes.
[1:22:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been played as number 10.
[1:22:33] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:22:34] Speaker 4: O'Reilly played as right-sided central.
[1:22:36] Speaker 2: Midfielder as well. He was up there. It's ridiculous how
[1:22:39] Speaker 2: they play.
[1:22:40] Speaker 3: There's a lot of stuff going on.
[1:22:42] Speaker 4: So many lefties on the pitch as well, I noticed.
[1:22:45] Speaker 2: I don't know if that matters.
[1:22:46] Speaker 1: No loosies though, eh? Lefty, loosey. Righty, tighty.
[1:22:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:22:51] Speaker 4: You know, Harlan scored an identical... Harlan scores the same goal.
[1:22:55] Speaker 2: Against us every single season.
[1:22:57] Speaker 4: It's that cross that he kind of backs into and
[1:23:00] Speaker 4: lets the header loop over the keeper.
[1:23:04] Speaker 1: Anyway, that's the end of the podcast. I'm pretty sure.
[1:23:07] Speaker 1: Have we missed anything, Steve?
[1:23:08] Speaker 3: No.
[1:23:09] Speaker 1: Oh, Fulham watch. No, we watched Fulham just a second ago.
[1:23:12] Speaker 1: These guys said some horrible shit about them and I
[1:23:14] Speaker 1: set them straight. Now, Colin Miller, thank you.
[1:23:17] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[1:23:17] Speaker 1: Tom Harris, thank you.
[1:23:18] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[1:23:19] Speaker 1: Ruben Pinder, thank you.
[1:23:20] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[1:23:20] Speaker 3: We will be.
[1:23:21] Speaker 1: Back on Thursday with John, JJ and Jack Pitbrook. All
[1:23:25] Speaker 1: the Js are there. There's a ring for analysis this
[1:23:27] Speaker 1: week on Saturday. I'm getting a text from Domino's. What
[1:23:29] Speaker 1: do they say? They say, bank holiday treat. Any size
[1:23:33] Speaker 1: pizza for £ 9. 99 when you buy any size. Well, get
[1:23:36] Speaker 1: out of it, Domino's. I'm at work. Maybe later.
[1:23:39] Speaker 2: You are going to do that.
[1:23:41] Speaker 1: And what is the other?
[1:23:43] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[1:23:43] Speaker 1: I've lost my place. See you later. Oh, Steve. Thanks
[1:23:47] Speaker 1: to Steve.
[1:23:47] Speaker 6: Yeah, bye.
[1:23:49] Speaker 1: See you later.

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