# We_re Back Baby_ _ Tifo Football Podcast(M4A_128K)

An episode of [Footbal Beyond the Pitch](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/6821032841), 26 Oct 2026, 1 h 07 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/75998681/we_re_back_baby_tifo_football_podcast_m4a_128k.mp3

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## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the TIFO Football Podcast. I'm Joe
[0:06] Speaker 1: Devine and I'm delighted to be joined today by JJ Bull,
[0:10] Speaker 1: the Bullard.
[0:10] Speaker 2: Hi JJ. Yes.
[0:12] Speaker 1: Did you have a lovely Christmas and New Year?
[0:14] Speaker 2: No. No, okay.
[0:15] Speaker 1: Well here also joining us is Jonathan Dog-McKenzie.
[0:18] Speaker 2: Hi John. Hello.
[0:19] Speaker 1: And how was your festive season?
[0:20] Speaker 3: It was wonderful.
[0:21] Speaker 1: Wonderful indeed, of course. Mine was too, thanks for asking. Now,
[0:25] Speaker 1: no Seb Stafford-Blaw today, he's still recovering from six years
[0:29] Speaker 1: of working at TIFO. he's got two weeks off and
[0:32] Speaker 1: he'll be back next week I think to join us
[0:35] Speaker 1: very exciting but lots going on in the podcast today
[0:40] Speaker 1: for us to discuss where else to start but with
[0:42] Speaker 1: Southampton circling the relegation drain there very exciting Manchester United
[0:48] Speaker 1: bit of a resurgence for them 100% victory since the
[0:51] Speaker 1: restart so we'll talk about that today Chelsea yes in
[0:56] Speaker 1: 10th place facing the reality of being a normal club
[1:00] Speaker 1: Very confusing.
[1:01] Speaker 4: Yes.
[1:02] Speaker 1: And of course, I'm just delaying time for Steve Hankey
[1:04] Speaker 1: to write out slowly what's happening during the episode. And
[1:07] Speaker 1: I can see that City and Holland, some different opinions
[1:09] Speaker 1: about whether he should be in the team or not.
[1:11] Speaker 2: No one says that.
[1:12] Speaker 1: I don't know.
[1:13] Speaker 2: That's not what we talk about.
[1:13] Speaker 1: But we talk about Man City and Erling Haaland and
[1:16] Speaker 1: other things as well.
[1:17] Speaker 2: I don't even care. It doesn't even matter.
[1:18] Speaker 1: If you're listening to this podcast, then, you know, you probably...
[1:23] Speaker 1: We've already listened to it before. Only a small percentage
[1:25] Speaker 1: of people listening will be listening for the first time.
[1:28] Speaker 1: And if that's you and you're new, f * *
[1:29] Speaker 1: * off. And you know what? That wouldn't have had
[1:34] Speaker 1: to have happened, Steve Hange, if you were a better producer.
[1:37] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:38] Speaker 2: But anyway, I will leave you.
[1:41] Speaker 4: No, no. No.
[1:42] Speaker 2: No, that's not what I do.
[1:43] Speaker 5: If you want to retain new people to watch your
[1:46] Speaker 5: podcast with excellent football information, you can get a lot
[1:49] Speaker 5: of it by reading The Athletic.
[1:51] Speaker 2: Keep going. And if you go to.
[1:53] Speaker 5: Theathletic.com forward slash TIFO right now, whoa, baby, you can
[1:58] Speaker 5: read all sorts of things. Like today I read David
[2:02] Speaker 5: Ornstein's Bit.
[2:04] Speaker 2: Let's see what's at the top of all things.
[2:06] Speaker 3: Well, we've just announced that we are.
[2:07] Speaker 2: Oh, David Onstein's Monday column.
[2:09] Speaker 1: Fantastic.
[2:09] Speaker 3: We've just announced that we are covering Spanish football to
[2:13] Speaker 3: a more greater degree.
[2:14] Speaker 2: That's right.
[2:15] Speaker 1: The Athletic has hired some incredible writers to cover Barcelona
[2:19] Speaker 1: and Real Madrid.
[2:19] Speaker 3: Mario Cortegana.
[2:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, Mario Cortegana.
[2:21] Speaker 3: Guillermo Rai. Yeah. Lea Cerveo Herrero.
[2:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, Herrero. There we go. Perfect. That's fantastic.
[2:28] Speaker 1: And also Paul Byers, who was covering Manchester region for
[2:31] Speaker 1: us before. but there's a bunch of amazing pieces if
[2:34] Speaker 1: you're already an Athletic subscriber I should say and you
[2:37] Speaker 1: follow one of the Premier League teams you can now
[2:38] Speaker 1: expect that kind of depth of coverage for Barcelona and
[2:43] Speaker 1: Real Madrid too which is very very exciting and here's
[2:46] Speaker 1: a fun thing that's top of my list Manchester City
[2:49] Speaker 1: the chameleon team who are always one step ahead we
[2:52] Speaker 1: talk about that in today's episode there we go okay
[2:55] Speaker 1: delightful and of course Dermot Corrigan I should say as
[2:58] Speaker 1: well who's been a long time La Liga correspondent for
[3:00] Speaker 1: the Athletic still around Doing us great stuff. Thank you, Dermot,
[3:04] Speaker 1: for all of your service.
[3:05] Speaker 2: But I will leave you now in.
[3:06] Speaker 1: The warm hands and the cool embrace of España. Well,
[3:13] Speaker 1: I'm delighted to say that we're joined first by Jacob Tanswell,
[3:16] Speaker 1: with an N. I've been calling him Jacob Tanswell for
[3:20] Speaker 1: months now.
[3:20] Speaker 2: Very embarrassing for me. But Jacob, thanks for joining us.
[3:23] Speaker 2: Hope you're well.
[3:24] Speaker 4: I'm all good, thank you.
[3:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good.
[3:25] Speaker 1: All good, unlike Southampton, who we're going to start the
[3:27] Speaker 1: show by discussing. Southampton, terrible team. having a terrible time,
[3:32] Speaker 1: isn't that? It's fair to say, isn't it? There's a
[3:34] Speaker 1: few things we want to talk about today, but can
[3:36] Speaker 1: you start me off by telling me why their lost
[3:40] Speaker 1: Nottingham Forest was sort of so dispiriting?
[3:42] Speaker 4: Do you know, I was going to write that it
[3:44] Speaker 4: was worse than the 2-9-0s, especially the first one against Leicester.
[3:48] Speaker 4: I just thought maybe that's recency bias, maybe it's just
[3:50] Speaker 4: my emotions. And a week on, I can safely say
[3:53] Speaker 4: it was worse than the 9-0s because Southampton were just
[3:56] Speaker 4: an absolute mess. They were booed at the end, but
[4:00] Speaker 4: what was so disappointing was just how tactically shambolic they were.
[4:03] Speaker 4: You know, Nottingham Forest was sitting deep towards the end
[4:06] Speaker 4: and Slampton's three centre-backs just kept pumping it forward. I
[4:09] Speaker 4: think they were 75 long balls, according to Opto, which
[4:11] Speaker 4: was just staggering. And Nathan Jones only changed shape twice,
[4:15] Speaker 4: which by his levels and by his standards, that's not many,
[4:18] Speaker 4: because he gets bright and he changed shape five times. So, yeah,
[4:21] Speaker 4: he didn't do much to change that. And the whole
[4:23] Speaker 4: general performance was just, was littered by mistakes and just,
[4:26] Speaker 4: you know, grave errors and that just spoke of a
[4:29] Speaker 4: team that's probably going to get relegated as well.
[4:31] Speaker 1: Wow okay well that's pretty damning indictment also long ball
[4:33] Speaker 1: is not necessarily something you would associate with with a
[4:36] Speaker 1: southampton team but we'll come back and talk about nathan
[4:38] Speaker 1: jones a little bit later um sport public though who
[4:41] Speaker 1: are the owners of southampton took over about a year
[4:43] Speaker 1: ago uh what what is their long-term plan and does
[4:48] Speaker 1: it include relegation.
[4:50] Speaker 4: I don't think it includes relegation, no. They carried out
[4:52] Speaker 4: a significant overhaul in players in the summer because they
[4:56] Speaker 4: thought they could improve and build on it. And you've
[4:58] Speaker 4: got to remember, at this time last year, Southampton had
[5:00] Speaker 4: just beaten Brentford, Rasmus Ankersen's old team, and they were
[5:03] Speaker 4: trying to get into the top 10. So this was
[5:05] Speaker 4: in the plan. And since then, they've overhauled the existing squad.
[5:10] Speaker 4: They've got a lot off the old guard, off the
[5:12] Speaker 4: wage bill. Jack Stephens is on loan. Nathan Redman's gone.
[5:15] Speaker 4: They've put in these players, and these 10 players who are,
[5:18] Speaker 4: look quite good. You know, Romeo Lavia, Armal Belakotchap, Gavin Bozzini,
[5:21] Speaker 4: who's only young. But they haven't been supplemented by the experience.
[5:25] Speaker 4: And the experienced players they have got aren't performing. I
[5:27] Speaker 4: think if you look at James Ward-Prowse, poor old Ward-Prowse,
[5:30] Speaker 4: he's just there trying to do everything. And the burden
[5:33] Speaker 4: on him is more than probably any other player in
[5:36] Speaker 4: a middle into lower Premier League club at the moment.
[5:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
[5:39] Speaker 1: Rasmus Angerson, John, remind us who he is because I
[5:42] Speaker 1: remember we made a video about this when the takeover
[5:44] Speaker 1: happened about a year ago. Some people were quite excited
[5:47] Speaker 1: about it. Took conversations about data, for example.
[5:51] Speaker 2: Why was that?
[5:52] Speaker 3: Yeah, Erasmus Ankson is a Danish chap who played football
[5:55] Speaker 3: for Midgeland, I think, who are one of the big
[5:57] Speaker 3: teams that everyone talks about in terms of the teams
[6:00] Speaker 3: that have gone through the data revolution. Ended up at Brentford.
[6:04] Speaker 3: I think he became the director of football or someone
[6:06] Speaker 3: high up at Midgeland and came to Brentford to be
[6:09] Speaker 3: one of the co-directors there as well and moved on
[6:12] Speaker 3: to Southampton recently. So the idea is, you know, bring
[6:15] Speaker 3: in a guy who oversaw the turnover of Brentford, made
[6:20] Speaker 3: Brentford the team that they are. But I guess, for me,
[6:23] Speaker 3: the interesting thing is that a lot of the times
[6:25] Speaker 3: when these sorts of things happen, you take a club
[6:27] Speaker 3: who are maybe further down the league pyramid, you're able
[6:30] Speaker 3: to implement the structures, the infrastructures that you want early on,
[6:35] Speaker 3: and you're given the time then to put things in place,
[6:38] Speaker 3: move things along quite slowly, whereas this is a very
[6:41] Speaker 3: different kind of project, right? It's a club that has
[6:43] Speaker 3: a new a new ownership, has a new structure of
[6:46] Speaker 3: people who are making the decisions at the club. And
[6:49] Speaker 3: they've got to this point where they've just overhauled everything
[6:53] Speaker 3: in a very short space of time. I know that
[6:55] Speaker 3: Rasmus Hankerson is someone who does a lot of, I
[6:57] Speaker 3: don't want to say motivational speaking, he does a lot
[7:01] Speaker 3: of presentations to big corporations. And I was having a
[7:06] Speaker 3: look at some of the things that he's done. He's
[7:07] Speaker 3: written a book and one of the chapters is, if
[7:09] Speaker 3: it's not broken, have a think about maybe breaking it.
[7:15] Speaker 3: which I think maybe changed my opinion of what's going
[7:19] Speaker 3: on at Southampton, because that almost looks as though that's
[7:22] Speaker 3: what they've done. They've sort of taken a model and
[7:24] Speaker 3: they've said, right, the problem with this model is that
[7:26] Speaker 3: we've sort of stagnated. We need to change things up.
[7:29] Speaker 3: And that could be the catalyst for, I guess, a
[7:31] Speaker 3: more positive change. And as Jacob's saying, what that's looked
[7:36] Speaker 3: like is taking a style, a club that had a
[7:38] Speaker 3: very specific style of football. They brought in Ralph Hasenhuttle,
[7:42] Speaker 3: who was obviously, from the Red Bull stable, maybe not
[7:46] Speaker 3: the most classic of Red Bull coaches, but it did
[7:49] Speaker 3: seem as though they wanted to bring in that style
[7:50] Speaker 3: of play, like really aggressive, intense, high pressing, so that
[7:54] Speaker 3: you can almost gain the system, right? You can bring
[7:56] Speaker 3: in players who are going to be overlooked in the
[7:57] Speaker 3: market because they have intensity rather than maybe technical ability.
[8:02] Speaker 3: Bring that in, see if it works in the Premier League.
[8:03] Speaker 3: And I suppose the idea is that you're sort of
[8:07] Speaker 3: able to run a club fairly cheaply in the Premier League,
[8:10] Speaker 3: get benefits that you might not get from the amount
[8:14] Speaker 3: of money that you're spending and see how long you
[8:16] Speaker 3: can go for.
[8:17] Speaker 2: And they went for a long time.
[8:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, it worked.
[8:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, it did work.
[8:20] Speaker 3: And I think now the big question is, once you've
[8:23] Speaker 3: reached that point and you've realised the ceiling for that
[8:25] Speaker 3: is you're going to be in a relegation battle every season,
[8:28] Speaker 3: but you'll probably survive. The question is, well, how do
[8:33] Speaker 3: we move on to the next step where we're not
[8:34] Speaker 3: in that relegation battle every season? And it felt like
[8:37] Speaker 3: to me in the summer that the decision made was, well,
[8:40] Speaker 3: let's try and move from this style of football to
[8:43] Speaker 3: maybe a more possessional, heavy style of football. And to
[8:45] Speaker 3: do that, rather than bringing in players at the peak
[8:47] Speaker 3: of their game who have all of these abilities, start
[8:49] Speaker 3: gambling on bringing players in who are younger in academy systems,
[8:53] Speaker 3: namely the Manchester City Academy. And they kept on Haas
[8:58] Speaker 3: and Hüttl, obviously, but the idea, I think, was that
[9:00] Speaker 3: he just changed up the way that he was playing.
[9:01] Speaker 3: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but would you
[9:03] Speaker 3: agree with that? The idea was bring in Haas and Hüttl,
[9:05] Speaker 3: see if he can play this sort of style of play.
[9:08] Speaker 3: And if not, move him on, bring someone else in.
[9:10] Speaker 4: And one of the key things as well is that
[9:11] Speaker 4: Harsens will start the season with a back three. I
[9:13] Speaker 4: think they clearly just got completely ground down by the
[9:16] Speaker 4: amount of goals they were conceding, the easy goals, because
[9:19] Speaker 4: when the press wouldn't work, which is around the wintertime,
[9:21] Speaker 4: they were getting played through every single time. And I
[9:23] Speaker 4: think Salampton in the summer, they brought in Ruben Sellers,
[9:25] Speaker 4: who's an assistant coach, who's quite pragmatic. He focuses a
[9:28] Speaker 4: lot on structure, defensive shape. And they thought, if we
[9:30] Speaker 4: can go to a back three, then we'll stop conceding,
[9:32] Speaker 4: we'll be harder to beat, and then we'll still win.
[9:35] Speaker 4: sometimes press and then we'd be a generally more consistent,
[9:37] Speaker 4: more effective team because throughout Haas and O'Toole's tenure, they
[9:40] Speaker 4: would go on great runs of form but then they
[9:42] Speaker 4: would go on these horrendous runs of form and I
[9:44] Speaker 4: think they tried to cut out that inconsistency but in
[9:47] Speaker 4: cutting out that inconsistency, you've lost all the high-octane press,
[9:51] Speaker 4: you've lost all the entertainment and all the good parts
[9:53] Speaker 4: of Southampton really.
[9:55] Speaker 1: You talked about relegation there which does seem sort of
[9:58] Speaker 1: on the cards this season given that Southampton are currently
[10:01] Speaker 1: bottom of the table. And it doesn't seem there's an
[10:04] Speaker 1: obvious route out of them. Burnley, though, are an example
[10:07] Speaker 1: of a team that have been relegated and doing rather
[10:08] Speaker 1: well this season. And you suggested last week in conversation, John,
[10:12] Speaker 1: that maybe it's a good opportunity for a reset. Jacob,
[10:16] Speaker 1: with Southampton, do you think that is a possibility or
[10:20] Speaker 1: would it be very bad? You know, it's more like
[10:23] Speaker 1: an evidence sort of situation if they were to be relegated.
[10:25] Speaker 4: I think it's a good point, but the only caveat
[10:27] Speaker 4: to say is that the reset actually happened in the summer.
[10:29] Speaker 4: They signed 10 players. They let go of 12. They
[10:31] Speaker 4: wanted the reset then. They did want it in the championship.
[10:34] Speaker 4: And their whole model is basically buy to eventually sell on.
[10:38] Speaker 4: And they know that the only way they're going to
[10:39] Speaker 4: be sustainable is through selling the likes of Romeo Lavia,
[10:42] Speaker 4: through Armao Belacoccia. And if they go down, they'll get
[10:44] Speaker 4: good money, but they're not going to get anywhere near
[10:46] Speaker 4: the amount they would get if they were still in
[10:47] Speaker 4: the Premier League.
[10:48] Speaker 2: Okay, fine. Let's talk about Nathan Jones then. John, what
[10:51] Speaker 2: do you think so far? Four games?
[10:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, the impression I'm getting from Southampton fans is that
[10:56] Speaker 3: it's very hard to tell exactly what his style of
[11:00] Speaker 3: play is. And I think I've heard you, Jacob, saying
[11:01] Speaker 3: that whenever you've pushed him on this, he sort of
[11:03] Speaker 3: talks about flexibility being his predominant characteristic, which... Again, when
[11:09] Speaker 3: you're working in a team where everything's going wrong, going right, sorry,
[11:13] Speaker 3: working in a club where everything's working out for you
[11:16] Speaker 3: and you have the ability to be flexible, obviously it's
[11:18] Speaker 3: a really, really powerful upside to have. I mean, is
[11:22] Speaker 3: this not the lesson we've learned from Graham Potter, right?
[11:25] Speaker 3: He coached Brighton to a point where his team were
[11:28] Speaker 3: supremely flexible in different phases of play. He's gone into
[11:32] Speaker 3: Chelsea and his players don't have the ability to move
[11:34] Speaker 3: between those those sorts of systems as he wants them to,
[11:37] Speaker 3: and it's not been working out for him. So I
[11:40] Speaker 3: think this is the difficulty with these sorts of managers
[11:43] Speaker 3: is that you have to accept that when you bring
[11:45] Speaker 3: them in, if there is going to be an upside,
[11:47] Speaker 3: it's going to be a fairly long and painful upside,
[11:50] Speaker 3: which I just don't think Southampton can afford right now.
[11:53] Speaker 3: They have to get someone in who's just going to
[11:55] Speaker 3: be able to immediately change things around and get them
[11:58] Speaker 3: to a point where they're able to start getting points
[12:01] Speaker 3: on the board. So yeah, I think that's the problem
[12:04] Speaker 3: that has arisen here.
[12:06] Speaker 5: Well, the other thing with Southampton is that if you
[12:08] Speaker 5: have any team and you bring in loads of new players.
[12:11] Speaker 2: Where's that noise? It's like a bumblebee driving a train.
[12:14] Speaker 1: For listeners, we're in a new studio today, and so
[12:16] Speaker 1: we're hearing all new noises. Do you know how when
[12:18] Speaker 1: you move into a new house and you go to
[12:20] Speaker 1: bed late at night and then the house sort of
[12:21] Speaker 1: moves and you wonder how many ghosts there are?
[12:23] Speaker 2: It's a bit like that, isn't it?
[12:24] Speaker 5: I was thinking we should probably apply that same thinking
[12:26] Speaker 5: where if something's not broken, you should break it.
[12:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[12:30] Speaker 5: I would do all sorts of things. That's why I
[12:31] Speaker 5: burned my house down last night. Maybe it'll be bigger
[12:33] Speaker 5: when I get back home.
[12:34] Speaker 2: That's right, yeah.
[12:36] Speaker 5: Anyway it's going to burn down the house right so
[12:38] Speaker 5: Southampton's got all new players so like Arsene Wenger always
[12:41] Speaker 5: talked about three or four key players is about all
[12:44] Speaker 5: you can really change because it takes a while for
[12:45] Speaker 5: them to gel and you see that all the time
[12:47] Speaker 5: now if you get if you're at the bottom end
[12:49] Speaker 5: of the Premier League and then you sign all these
[12:51] Speaker 5: new players and they don't gel enough you lose your
[12:53] Speaker 5: momentum you lose confidence so then it's very hard to
[12:56] Speaker 5: try and drive any sort of momentum and cohesion to
[12:59] Speaker 5: get these high pressing teams working I think you see
[13:00] Speaker 5: with Liverpool just now like totally devoid of confidence so
[13:03] Speaker 5: it doesn't work all of a sudden and it's got
[13:05] Speaker 5: to be cohesive and have all the chemistry all the
[13:08] Speaker 5: little bits and pieces working like in Breaking Bad where
[13:11] Speaker 5: he's making that what is he making?
[13:13] Speaker 2: What was it?
[13:14] Speaker 5: Not crack meth meth right he makes it to like
[13:19] Speaker 5: 99% purity or something whereas other people are like 97
[13:21] Speaker 5: and that's fine but what you need is 99 to
[13:23] Speaker 5: make it work because otherwise you lose 1-0 to Crystal
[13:25] Speaker 5: Palace yeah right excuse me so they've got that going
[13:29] Speaker 5: on for a start then you put the manager who
[13:32] Speaker 5: um i don't know enough about nathan jones it's about
[13:34] Speaker 5: called luton jones that's a good name for someone right
[13:37] Speaker 5: so luton jones comes in and i don't know exactly
[13:38] Speaker 5: what all these bits and pieces are but i haven't
[13:40] Speaker 5: watched some swithampton it looks like you talked about in
[13:43] Speaker 5: your articles um about long balls lots of long balls
[13:46] Speaker 5: it reminds me a lot of watching um aberdeen under
[13:49] Speaker 5: derrick mckinnis a long time ago when when They were
[13:51] Speaker 5: a decent team, but not really. Had players who should
[13:55] Speaker 5: be able to beat teams worse than them, but aren't
[13:56] Speaker 5: actually that good. And he would always hit long balls.
[13:59] Speaker 5: It's like straightforward and try and chase up with the
[14:01] Speaker 5: second ball. It makes it look loose all the time.
[14:04] Speaker 5: And eventually you start to like, what's he doing? And
[14:06] Speaker 5: then the players lose confidence and then the whole thing
[14:07] Speaker 5: starts to fall apart and you look rubbish. And it
[14:09] Speaker 5: looks a bit like that already after about four games.
[14:12] Speaker 5: And the idea being, when you get the ball forward quickly,
[14:14] Speaker 5: these long balls... You chase it up. Why would you
[14:16] Speaker 5: mess around passing it at the back if you're not
[14:17] Speaker 5: great at it? You can just get forward, chase it up.
[14:20] Speaker 5: It works sometimes and you get the energy. But then
[14:22] Speaker 5: if it doesn't work for two games in a row
[14:23] Speaker 5: when you join a club, you start going, this is rubbish.
[14:26] Speaker 5: Lose confidence, players don't believe in it. And then you've
[14:28] Speaker 5: got the players who aren't gelled, cohesive in the brand
[14:31] Speaker 5: new team squad, don't really care about it because they've
[14:33] Speaker 5: only just joined. The manager's trying to figure out who
[14:35] Speaker 5: they are. Jones has played by the looks of things
[14:37] Speaker 5: about four or five different shapes. in his game so far?
[14:39] Speaker 4: I think he's changed a lot more than that. I
[14:41] Speaker 4: think I counted nine in the first three.
[14:43] Speaker 2: Is that right? Just for starting line-ups and looking at it. Oh, yeah.
[14:45] Speaker 5: Yeah, like 4-3-1, kind of generic. If you want to
[14:49] Speaker 5: play like... So Hasenhut always played with that 4-4-2 or 4-2-2-2,
[14:53] Speaker 5: but you play through the middle and your width comes
[14:54] Speaker 5: from full-backs, then that leaves you exposed at the back
[14:56] Speaker 5: if he gets turned over. So then the defensive midfielders
[14:59] Speaker 5: weren't really covering those wide spaces either. So you change
[15:02] Speaker 5: to back three, you get better coverage at the back
[15:03] Speaker 5: and you've got your width coming from wing-backs, but that's
[15:06] Speaker 5: all your width comes from the wing-backs rather than the
[15:07] Speaker 5: forward players. So then they've got this mismatched sort of
[15:11] Speaker 5: squad of players that I don't think are very good
[15:13] Speaker 5: players really. So you expect them to be at the
[15:15] Speaker 5: bottom end of the team, of the league. And it's
[15:19] Speaker 5: basically burn it down. I saw you nodding a lot.
[15:22] Speaker 5: Not specifically at the burn it down bit. I saw
[15:24] Speaker 5: you nodding as JJ was talking. Do you agree with him?
[15:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, I do.
[15:28] Speaker 4: And what's so staggering to me is that Sport Republic, Rasmus,
[15:31] Speaker 4: talks about alignment. Alignment, like most Premier League clubs, is
[15:34] Speaker 4: the buzzword at the moment. And I went to see
[15:36] Speaker 4: the B team on Friday. And they were still playing 4-2-2-2,
[15:40] Speaker 4: the same as Ralph. To be clear, that's a team
[15:42] Speaker 4: of Bs.
[15:43] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[15:44] Speaker 4: And, you know, the two number 10s into the red zone,
[15:47] Speaker 4: you know, even the coach was shouting everything that Ralph
[15:49] Speaker 4: would be. And they're going to try and make the
[15:52] Speaker 4: step up into Joneses, who ultimately, he wants to play
[15:54] Speaker 4: a 3-5-2. He wants five centre-backs in by the end
[15:56] Speaker 4: of this window. And he doesn't want to play out
[15:58] Speaker 4: from the back because Southampton centre-backs, apart from Sileta Sarr,
[16:02] Speaker 4: aren't very good at breaking the lines with their passes.
[16:03] Speaker 4: They want to play long. The issue is, when you
[16:05] Speaker 4: do play long, you've got Shea Adams up top, who's
[16:07] Speaker 4: quite good for his height, considering he's 5'9, winning those balls,
[16:10] Speaker 4: but they haven't got the energy in behind them now.
[16:12] Speaker 4: Stuart Armstrong, Mohamed Ali Younousi have been there for a long,
[16:14] Speaker 4: long time. They're getting on a little bit, and I
[16:17] Speaker 4: don't feel they've still got the same vigour they used
[16:19] Speaker 4: to have. The two number 10s that time, they were
[16:22] Speaker 4: quite new, quite enterprising. They would, especially the top six teams,
[16:27] Speaker 4: they would trouble them because they would have a lot
[16:28] Speaker 4: of energy, they would press, they would counter-press really well,
[16:31] Speaker 4: but it just feels like everything's just a little bit
[16:34] Speaker 4: off at the moment, you know, that happened probably towards
[16:36] Speaker 4: the end of Hasminton's reign, but it's happening now. I
[16:38] Speaker 4: think the press is just a little bit off. And
[16:40] Speaker 4: so when they do try and press, you know, sporadically now, it's.
[16:43] Speaker 2: Not quite working.
[16:44] Speaker 5: That sort of counter-press idea, I think that it's very
[16:46] Speaker 5: hard to work at Premier League level as you have
[16:48] Speaker 5: amazing players. Like watching back City versus Chelsea from, was
[16:52] Speaker 5: it the FA Cup yesterday?
[16:53] Speaker 2: We were filming this on Monday, just so you know.
[16:55] Speaker 2: Like watching that back....
[16:58] Speaker 5: City's press was really funny because Chelsea could hardly get out.
[17:01] Speaker 5: It was so aggressive, so high up the pitch and
[17:03] Speaker 5: so well coordinated with amazing players who both understand what
[17:06] Speaker 5: they've been coached to do. They also know exactly where
[17:08] Speaker 5: to go and what makes sense because great footballers have
[17:10] Speaker 5: that innate thing. But Chelsea were able to get out
[17:13] Speaker 5: of it a couple of times because they have amazing
[17:15] Speaker 5: players who are able to pass away with short bits
[17:17] Speaker 5: and pieces. I think Southampton don't have the players who
[17:19] Speaker 5: are good enough to be able to pass their way
[17:21] Speaker 5: out of a really high press. So get rid of
[17:23] Speaker 5: that if you're playing against a team who presses well
[17:25] Speaker 5: and a lot of teams press really high.
[17:26] Speaker 2: It's a really... sensible way to create chances or win
[17:30] Speaker 2: the ball back further away from your own goal.
[17:31] Speaker 1: That's like mine and John's Rocket League tactics.
[17:34] Speaker 2: Is that right?
[17:34] Speaker 1: We're not good enough to play out from the back
[17:36] Speaker 1: so we yeet it long and then sometimes we get
[17:38] Speaker 1: on the end of it and score a goal.
[17:40] Speaker 5: I watch teams do this constantly in Scotland. This is
[17:42] Speaker 5: what a lot of them have to do because they
[17:43] Speaker 5: don't have the technical ability to play out from the
[17:45] Speaker 5: back but they also don't have to play against teams
[17:46] Speaker 5: who are technically good at pressing because no one seems
[17:49] Speaker 5: to be able to coach that very well in Scotland.
[17:50] Speaker 5: Celtic aside, maybe Rangers for a bit. I don't think
[17:52] Speaker 5: even they're that good at it. Celtic's really good at it.
[17:55] Speaker 5: And you see the problems. So then you just bypass
[17:57] Speaker 5: that 20, 30 second phase of play where you build
[18:01] Speaker 5: slowly backwards around your goalkeeper until he launches it anyway.
[18:03] Speaker 2: Just get it forward from the start. Go forward.
[18:05] Speaker 5: But at Premier League level, everyone's... Remember when Guardiola came
[18:07] Speaker 5: in and they were struggling with second balls? He said
[18:09] Speaker 5: that's what they focused loads of time on. Like, all
[18:11] Speaker 5: managers will have done that. All these coaches who are
[18:13] Speaker 5: younger come through and have heard that. And then you
[18:15] Speaker 5: put the ball... You shell the ball to Shea Adams
[18:18] Speaker 5: and then he tries to take it down. But you've
[18:20] Speaker 5: got players who will have the timing ready to go.
[18:22] Speaker 5: Then as soon as the ball comes towards them, snap,
[18:23] Speaker 5: you go in, win the ball, and then you've got
[18:25] Speaker 5: it back and you won't be able to play with it.
[18:26] Speaker 1: It's a really good point, though. We had a conversation,
[18:28] Speaker 1: John and I, with a friend of ours the other
[18:29] Speaker 1: day about... It was after the Arsenal-Newcastle game. We were
[18:33] Speaker 1: talking about differing responses to time-wasting. And our friend loves time-wasting,
[18:38] Speaker 1: says it's one of the best things in the sport.
[18:40] Speaker 2: I said, why?
[18:41] Speaker 1: He said, because it's a great leveller. It means that
[18:43] Speaker 1: teams who don't have as good players... have a chance
[18:47] Speaker 1: against teams that do and you underestimate but when you
[18:50] Speaker 1: hoof it long put the ball in the air push
[18:52] Speaker 1: people around suddenly it does level out the playing field
[18:55] Speaker 1: a little.
[18:56] Speaker 5: Bit because the balls are on the ground so you
[18:57] Speaker 5: don't have to worry about your technical issues and you
[18:59] Speaker 5: just get big hoofers up the top you get a
[19:01] Speaker 5: couple of freezers up there get the ball in and
[19:04] Speaker 5: you just like it works like Aberdeen managed to make
[19:07] Speaker 5: it work for ages I asked Eric McInnes like why
[19:09] Speaker 5: he does that And I was quite nervous asking the
[19:11] Speaker 5: question because I knew he'd bite back. Like when you
[19:13] Speaker 5: ask managers certain questions, it was a one-on-one situation, like
[19:16] Speaker 5: in a nice little room. So it's not like in
[19:18] Speaker 5: a press conference where you can maybe hide in the
[19:20] Speaker 5: crowd or whatever. But like sitting next to him, I said, okay,
[19:23] Speaker 5: I'll just ask a last question.
[19:25] Speaker 2: Why is it?
[19:25] Speaker 5: So it seems sometimes, this is a question I asked him,
[19:27] Speaker 5: it seems sometimes when you're watching the games back, you
[19:30] Speaker 5: get quite annoyed when your players launch it from the
[19:32] Speaker 5: back towards the forwards. And I don't think for a
[19:35] Speaker 5: second that's what you're trying to make them do all
[19:37] Speaker 5: the time.
[19:37] Speaker 2: But why is it?
[19:38] Speaker 5: Are you annoyed when they do that or are you
[19:39] Speaker 5: trying to get them to put the ball forward? And
[19:41] Speaker 5: he responds with a bit of a bite and said
[19:43] Speaker 5: that people ask him all the time, why are they
[19:45] Speaker 5: always hitting long balls we're not hitting long balls we're
[19:47] Speaker 5: putting the ball where the space.
[19:48] Speaker 2: Is and I'm like it.
[19:51] Speaker 5: Kind of makes sense what you're saying but I don't
[19:53] Speaker 5: want to push you on this because I'm not going
[19:55] Speaker 5: to be able to leave the room happy. I just
[19:56] Speaker 5: want him to like me.
[19:57] Speaker 1: I guess the difference between where the space is and
[19:59] Speaker 1: hitting a long ball is if the ball actually goes
[20:01] Speaker 1: to the space. At which point, the manager can't be
[20:04] Speaker 1: held responsible if the players can't kick it to the
[20:06] Speaker 1: right place.
[20:07] Speaker 2: I just disagree with that fundamentally because I want to
[20:09] Speaker 2: control the ball. I want to keep it, but I
[20:11] Speaker 2: see the limitations. Very controlling sort of character, isn't he? Yeah,
[20:14] Speaker 2: I need control of everything. Well, listen, before we let
[20:17] Speaker 2: you go, Jacob, From the company? From the company, yeah.
[20:21] Speaker 1: I've liked what you said here. I thought he was
[20:24] Speaker 1: good too, but listen, the decision's out of my hands.
[20:26] Speaker 1: There are a couple of other teams. Down there or thereabouts.
[20:30] Speaker 1: We've got Wolves in 19th currently on 14 points, just
[20:34] Speaker 1: two ahead of Southampton. Everton on 15, West Ham on 15,
[20:40] Speaker 1: Bournemouth on 16, Nottingham Forest 17. I mean, Leicester and
[20:43] Speaker 1: Leeds also on 17 as well. So, you know, you're
[20:45] Speaker 1: within five points of 13th if you're a Southampton fan.
[20:48] Speaker 1: Can you think of three teams out of that six
[20:51] Speaker 1: that might be worse over the next, what, four or
[20:54] Speaker 1: five months in Southampton? Because, I mean, that's where we
[20:57] Speaker 1: are now, isn't it? It's a who, if not them,
[21:00] Speaker 1: then who?
[21:01] Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I'm struggling.
[21:02] Speaker 4: I think I've seen Bournemouth a little bit in the
[21:04] Speaker 4: last couple of weeks and they seem sort of blowing
[21:05] Speaker 4: up at the moment. Similar to Southampton, they don't really
[21:08] Speaker 4: have a system or a defined style of play. And just, sorry,
[21:10] Speaker 4: just to touch on a direct style of play, as
[21:12] Speaker 4: simplistic as this may have seemed and all the tactical
[21:15] Speaker 4: nuance out the window... It was in August when Slamton
[21:18] Speaker 4: thought to themselves, hold on, we've got a keeper that
[21:20] Speaker 4: can kick really long and we've got a share of
[21:22] Speaker 4: them who's half decent at holding up. Why don't we
[21:24] Speaker 4: just hoof it all the time? And now they won
[21:26] Speaker 4: 2-1 that day and since then they've really just used
[21:28] Speaker 4: it all the time and all the coaches were just
[21:30] Speaker 4: completely taken by the Gavin Bozzini's kicking range. So that's
[21:34] Speaker 4: how Slamton play and I think similarly with Bournemouth they
[21:36] Speaker 4: haven't really got a system so I think they're probably
[21:39] Speaker 4: vulnerable and Everton of course they can blow a gasket
[21:42] Speaker 4: can't they?
[21:42] Speaker 1: Sure, of course with Everton I suppose there's always the
[21:44] Speaker 1: manager situation which may potentially changes at some point between
[21:48] Speaker 1: now and the end of the season.
[21:49] Speaker 2: We don't know. I think Forrest will fall into that.
[21:51] Speaker 2: You think Forrest? Yeah. Too many players at once.
[21:54] Speaker 3: The interesting thing is that Southampton are only three points
[21:56] Speaker 3: off getting out of the relegation zone, which is probably
[22:00] Speaker 3: why they wouldn't be too scared of just pulling the
[22:03] Speaker 3: plug on Nathan Jones, right?
[22:05] Speaker 1: No.
[22:05] Speaker 3: You kind of feel as though when it comes down
[22:07] Speaker 3: to probably two or three wins and you're comfortable in
[22:10] Speaker 3: this division early on, Is it worth taking the risk,
[22:14] Speaker 3: I think?
[22:14] Speaker 2: Well, indeed.
[22:15] Speaker 5: I've got to break Nathan Jones.
[22:20] Speaker 1: As people online keep reminding us all, we are not
[22:22] Speaker 1: halfway through the season yet. We're at 17, 18 games played,
[22:26] Speaker 1: one more until we get there. So there's still time
[22:29] Speaker 1: and a run of two or three victories, of course.
[22:31] Speaker 1: can see you all the way to glory. Let's take
[22:33] Speaker 1: a break now. And when we come back, Jacob Tanswell
[22:37] Speaker 1: will have magically disappeared. Okay, we're back from the break now.
[22:39] Speaker 1: We're back from the break.
[22:40] Speaker 2: That was a break. It was a lovely break. Had
[22:41] Speaker 2: a nice time. Did you enjoy that break, John?
[22:43] Speaker 3: I enjoy all of the breaks I get to spend
[22:45] Speaker 3: with you, Jim.
[22:45] Speaker 1: Well, that's very nice of you to say so. Now, listen,
[22:48] Speaker 1: let's talk about Manchester United now, various different points of
[22:53] Speaker 1: topic here because of course they have a 100% winning
[22:57] Speaker 1: rate since the restarts yes very impressive and but as
[23:00] Speaker 1: John you point out relatively easy run of fixtures their
[23:04] Speaker 1: games you'd be expecting them to win we can talk
[23:07] Speaker 1: about that now yes yes.
[23:09] Speaker 3: They are games they would be expected to win but
[23:12] Speaker 3: I think we talked about this with us at the
[23:13] Speaker 3: beginning of the season right which was Everyone was saying, well,
[23:16] Speaker 3: how good are Arsenal? They've only beaten teams you'd expect
[23:18] Speaker 3: them to win against. But you have to think about
[23:21] Speaker 3: it in terms of the aggregate, right? You would expect
[23:23] Speaker 3: them to win most of these games most of the time,
[23:25] Speaker 3: but to win all of them is getting towards impressive.
[23:28] Speaker 3: But yeah, Man United have moved around, turned a corner?
[23:32] Speaker 3: They've moved around a corner.
[23:34] Speaker 2: They've moved around a corner.
[23:38] Speaker 3: Is that a good thing?
[23:39] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[23:40] Speaker 3: They've certainly turned a corner from the beginning of the season, right,
[23:42] Speaker 3: where they were losing to teams that they should have
[23:46] Speaker 3: been winning against. And, yeah, I think they're now at
[23:51] Speaker 3: that level of stability where you can start saying, right,
[23:53] Speaker 3: where do we find the problems to fix? Where are
[23:56] Speaker 3: the profiles that we need to make this team better? Obviously,
[23:58] Speaker 3: in January, they will do some of that stuff. But
[24:02] Speaker 3: in the summer, they've now, under Eric Ten Hag, I think,
[24:04] Speaker 3: got a solid basis from which to start improving. And that's,
[24:07] Speaker 3: That's the first hurdle for any manager at these sorts
[24:09] Speaker 3: of clubs to get over, and he's done really well
[24:11] Speaker 3: on that.
[24:11] Speaker 2: Absolutely.
[24:11] Speaker 1: They are Tenhagian now, I believe. And one key element
[24:16] Speaker 1: of the Tenhagian nature, do you think that's going to catch?
[24:18] Speaker 1: That's like a Game of Thrones thing, doesn't it? Tenhagians
[24:21] Speaker 1: rode the dragons in old Valyria.
[24:23] Speaker 2: Yeah. It sounds like he could live on one of
[24:26] Speaker 2: the realms. Yes, in God of War.
[24:30] Speaker 1: One of the nine realms of God of War. Are
[24:32] Speaker 1: they not called realms in.
[24:34] Speaker 2: Lord of the Thrones Game of Thrones Lord of the.
[24:36] Speaker 3: Thrones Thrones of the Flies Thrones of the.
[24:39] Speaker 1: Flies I even know these things I'm just obviously so
[24:41] Speaker 1: ill well anyway listen one of my points here was
[24:43] Speaker 1: that one of the things making them such a Tenhagian
[24:47] Speaker 1: team is this has to stop James is the purchase
[24:50] Speaker 1: of Casimiro Casimiro who's been Casimiro very very impressive for.
[24:56] Speaker 5: Them hasn't he Yeah, I mean, we sort of thought
[24:58] Speaker 5: he might be because he's part of one of the
[25:01] Speaker 5: greatest teams of all time that won the Champions League,
[25:04] Speaker 5: what is it, 25 times?
[25:05] Speaker 2: I think 34.
[25:06] Speaker 5: 34 times, yeah. So we had a bit of a
[25:10] Speaker 5: suspicion he might be good. I've always really liked watching Casemiro,
[25:12] Speaker 5: but what I think is interesting about what he's doing
[25:14] Speaker 5: at Man United is it is different to what he
[25:16] Speaker 5: did at Real Madrid, which is natural because I think
[25:19] Speaker 5: I did a video on Tifo IRL about the importance
[25:22] Speaker 5: of what he does. And it's not just defending deep,
[25:25] Speaker 5: making all interceptions there, but he helps fill in the
[25:27] Speaker 5: gaps everywhere else higher up the pitch, which is talking
[25:29] Speaker 5: about the things we talked about at Southampton and trying
[25:31] Speaker 5: to stop people early on. He's really important for that
[25:34] Speaker 5: because United can press well. They're getting better at it now.
[25:36] Speaker 5: But then you've got Casemiro that just fills in the blanks.
[25:38] Speaker 5: And Eric Ten Hag, Karl Anka told me this, Ten
[25:41] Speaker 5: Hag says he was the cement between the stones. And
[25:44] Speaker 5: I think it's a really nice phrase. because it kind
[25:46] Speaker 5: of explains what I think he does. He's just always
[25:49] Speaker 5: there in the right gaps to stop things. And often
[25:53] Speaker 5: he doesn't actually touch the ball, but he affects play
[25:55] Speaker 5: by being in a position that stops someone running into
[25:57] Speaker 5: that position or playing a pass through that position. It
[26:00] Speaker 5: makes me think that, I think it's important when you
[26:02] Speaker 5: play five-a-side, the shape's the most important thing for me
[26:05] Speaker 5: when you're, so you just constantly move no one's playing
[26:08] Speaker 5: striker no one's playing defender you just constantly move all the.
[26:10] Speaker 1: Time it's interesting you say that because of course it's
[26:12] Speaker 1: a good opportunity for me to plug the video that
[26:14] Speaker 1: we released over the christmas which is a video about
[26:17] Speaker 1: walking football uh where we went to go and play
[26:20] Speaker 1: against my uncle's walking football team uncle mick and uncle
[26:23] Speaker 1: damien old rascals as they are in harlow essex um
[26:27] Speaker 1: and uh interestingly of course there's five six players in
[26:29] Speaker 1: a walking football team you said shape uh the position
[26:33] Speaker 1: is less important, but I remember that you did regularly
[26:35] Speaker 1: shout at me for not being in the right place.
[26:38] Speaker 5: Yeah, well, the thing is you can, you should be
[26:40] Speaker 5: multi-positional during these five-a-side games.
[26:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, you want me to be multi-positional.
[26:45] Speaker 5: Yes, so I think everyone else has played it, like
[26:46] Speaker 5: basically you need, how do I describe this? I think
[26:50] Speaker 5: you should always play, you've got five players in the team.
[26:53] Speaker 5: The way I've learned it doing coaching badges was that
[26:55] Speaker 5: you should have basically, you want a diamond because the
[26:57] Speaker 5: diamond squishes up and becomes different shapes.
[26:59] Speaker 2: You've got one in defence, but actually it's three. But
[27:01] Speaker 2: also it can be two.
[27:02] Speaker 5: It's always moving, but it relies on the players understanding
[27:06] Speaker 5: how that works at the time. And I'm not saying
[27:08] Speaker 5: that anyone else in our walking football team wouldn't have
[27:10] Speaker 5: been clued up on that straight away or understood the
[27:12] Speaker 5: intricacies of what I wanted to be able to do.
[27:14] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[27:15] Speaker 5: But it's why I like to just stand in the
[27:16] Speaker 5: places that people aren't during five-a-side games.
[27:18] Speaker 3: I think he's indirecting me here.
[27:19] Speaker 1: It seems that way, doesn't it?
[27:21] Speaker 2: Well, that's what I like doing. I like standing like,
[27:23] Speaker 2: we play five-a-side sometimes, John.
[27:24] Speaker 3: We do, it's good. Yeah, I enjoy playing.
[27:26] Speaker 2: If we had.
[27:27] Speaker 1: Decided, have we agreed upon who's the better footballer between
[27:29] Speaker 1: the two of you?
[27:30] Speaker 5: I think we're different footballers. John does lots on the ball,
[27:33] Speaker 5: you're a lot off it. Yeah, I do a lot
[27:35] Speaker 5: off it as well. Also off the pitch. This is
[27:39] Speaker 5: the way the modern football is going, right? If you
[27:41] Speaker 5: start off just assuming you have 11 players who do things,
[27:45] Speaker 5: obviously you'll get a certain amount of upside. But if
[27:48] Speaker 5: you can make it so that you're adding players in attack,
[27:51] Speaker 5: so you're trying to get overloads in attack, or having
[27:54] Speaker 5: players who are going to add to the defense as well,
[27:56] Speaker 5: you're almost tricking the system into having more players in
[28:00] Speaker 5: different phases. So, for example, pressing is a really good
[28:02] Speaker 5: example of that, right? One of the things we see
[28:03] Speaker 5: when teams press at the moment is they try and
[28:05] Speaker 5: split the pitch in half, force everyone to one side,
[28:08] Speaker 5: because what you can then do is you can go
[28:10] Speaker 5: player for player on players on one side and ignore
[28:12] Speaker 5: players on the other. So you're generating a situation where
[28:14] Speaker 5: you're actually playing almost like a man to man system
[28:17] Speaker 5: without having all the players being marked man to man.
[28:20] Speaker 5: Everything in football is going that way, I think. How
[28:22] Speaker 5: do you work the system so that you get advantages
[28:25] Speaker 5: in attack and defence, which make it seem like you've
[28:27] Speaker 5: got more players than you actually have?
[28:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, very interesting. And also, just on Castamere, I was
[28:32] Speaker 1: going to say, I'm so sorry, I'm just smiling.
[28:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, giggling away over there.
[28:35] Speaker 1: I'm giggling away watching the plan, watching Steve Hankey come
[28:37] Speaker 1: up with such a lovely little segue for me. Possibly
[28:42] Speaker 1: aggressively typing it in the plan there. He says, speaking
[28:44] Speaker 1: of attacking players... That's his segue there. That's not what
[28:47] Speaker 1: I wrote, though, is it?
[28:48] Speaker 3: Hmm?
[28:49] Speaker 2: That's not what I wrote. Well, it's pretty much.
[28:50] Speaker 1: It's in essence what you wrote, Steve.
[28:52] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[28:52] Speaker 1: He says, speaking of adding players in attack. Yes. Will
[28:56] Speaker 1: Man United do that in this window? Let's say, if
[28:58] Speaker 1: you want to hear more about JJ Bull on Casemiro,
[29:00] Speaker 1: you should watch that video on Tifo IRL. And, of course,
[29:02] Speaker 1: watch the walking football video, too. But speaking of strikers... Yeah.
[29:07] Speaker 5: Strike.
[29:08] Speaker 1: We weren't speaking of them. Links to Val Veghorst.
[29:11] Speaker 2: Val Veghorst.
[29:13] Speaker 1: Fame, of course, from the World Cup for that fantastic
[29:17] Speaker 1: free kick routine. One of my favourites during the World Cup.
[29:20] Speaker 1: He's been linked to Manchester United, which is a surprise
[29:23] Speaker 1: to some, less of a surprise to others, I suppose.
[29:25] Speaker 2: What's going on there? Well, he's a Burnley player. He's
[29:27] Speaker 2: been loaned at Besiktas.
[29:28] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[29:29] Speaker 5: And now Manchester United want him. there's a lot of
[29:31] Speaker 5: noise that Vincent Aboubakar who's been let go from the.
[29:35] Speaker 3: Club that Ronaldo's just joined.
[29:37] Speaker 5: Has actually happened El Nasser so it might be that
[29:40] Speaker 5: he ends up going to Besiktas and then Weghorst comes
[29:44] Speaker 5: to be a number nine bit of an all he's
[29:47] Speaker 5: like a complete I'd say like a complete four he's
[29:49] Speaker 5: a target man but he's also he can do other
[29:51] Speaker 5: bits and pieces six foot six isn't he he's a
[29:53] Speaker 5: big tall lad he's good his positioning's quite good off
[29:55] Speaker 5: the ball positioning's quite good at getting into places to
[29:57] Speaker 5: score yeah.
[29:58] Speaker 2: He can hold a ball up, which is important. He
[30:00] Speaker 2: can drop in.
[30:01] Speaker 5: He's probably like just a fridge-freezer version of Tadic a
[30:04] Speaker 5: little bit.
[30:05] Speaker 2: He can drop in. I think John will probably know
[30:07] Speaker 2: more about him than I do.
[30:08] Speaker 1: A short-term Tadic, 30 years old, 10 goals in 21
[30:11] Speaker 1: appearances in all competitions on loan at Besiktas so far
[30:14] Speaker 1: this season. I mean, he seems like a sort of
[30:16] Speaker 1: Ten Hagian player.
[30:19] Speaker 3: I can hear them laughing through there. They're just goading
[30:21] Speaker 3: you on.
[30:22] Speaker 1: They like it.
[30:22] Speaker 3: I will not put up with this. Yeah, we just
[30:24] Speaker 3: put out an IRL video for sensible transfers for Manchester
[30:27] Speaker 3: United and we talked about how Manchester United under Ten
[30:30] Speaker 3: Hag will want a fairly classic number nine, right? We
[30:34] Speaker 3: talked about three different things that Ten Hag will be
[30:36] Speaker 3: looking for from his number nine. He's going to look
[30:38] Speaker 3: for a box present, so someone who is going to
[30:40] Speaker 3: be able to get goals, is going to be able
[30:42] Speaker 3: to offer something if teams are sitting... in a lowish
[30:44] Speaker 3: block so you can find him and you can score
[30:47] Speaker 3: in those situations as well.
[30:48] Speaker 1: He'll use your presence from a box as well. Yeah,
[30:50] Speaker 1: presence from inside of the box. That's number one. Someone
[30:53] Speaker 1: long walks on the beach.
[30:55] Speaker 3: That's right, yeah. Dreamy candlelit dinners. And also, they want
[31:00] Speaker 3: a nine who's going to pin defences. And when we
[31:02] Speaker 3: say pin defences, it's, you know, you're... And that's why
[31:05] Speaker 3: I think you should vote for me.
[31:07] Speaker 2: Like you've got your thumb hand, yeah. You put pins
[31:10] Speaker 2: in them. Yeah, pins in. Go on then. Go on then.
[31:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, pinning defences.
[31:14] Speaker 2: Don't allow our.
[31:15] Speaker 1: Repeated interruptions to stop you from making the point that
[31:17] Speaker 1: you were. Because actually it sounded like a good point.
[31:20] Speaker 1: And the narrative inside of my head is going, stop
[31:22] Speaker 1: talking and let him make the good point.
[31:25] Speaker 2: We're done now. Yeah, we're done.
[31:26] Speaker 3: Pinning defences.
[31:27] Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear what you're going to say.
[31:29] Speaker 2: I can't wait. What is it you're going to say?
[31:31] Speaker 3: Three points. What was the first one again?
[31:33] Speaker 2: Let's start again.
[31:34] Speaker 3: We do this when we are gaming together. I do
[31:37] Speaker 3: this to you and you get really annoyed. But that's
[31:39] Speaker 3: in a private situation. We're now in the full view
[31:42] Speaker 3: of the public.
[31:43] Speaker 1: Box presence was the first one.
[31:45] Speaker 3: Box presence.
[31:45] Speaker 2: Number two was... Pins and people.
[31:48] Speaker 3: Putting pins and people. Pinning defences. So essentially making sure
[31:51] Speaker 3: that you've got someone on the line of the defence,
[31:53] Speaker 3: creating space in front of the defence by forcing the
[31:57] Speaker 3: defence back.
[31:58] Speaker 2: With pins.
[31:58] Speaker 3: With pins. Yeah. he will also be doing that right
[32:02] Speaker 3: so he will be able to generate.
[32:04] Speaker 1: Space we just don't know whether he's actually joining or.
[32:07] Speaker 3: Not yeah yeah sure Ericsson and Fernandes obviously really creative
[32:12] Speaker 3: players if he can create space around the edge of
[32:15] Speaker 3: the box by pulling the defence back that's going to
[32:17] Speaker 3: be a good thing the other thing is hold up
[32:19] Speaker 3: play that JJ's already mentioned yeah Eric Ten Haag wants
[32:22] Speaker 3: that Eric Ten Haag became famous for that team which
[32:24] Speaker 3: had Tadic as a false nine but actually all the
[32:27] Speaker 3: way through that Eredivisie season he was using like Klaus-Jan
[32:30] Speaker 3: Huntelaar as a more traditional nine. Other players as well,
[32:34] Speaker 3: I think they had Kasper Dolberg as well. And then
[32:36] Speaker 3: obviously the second iteration of that team had Sebastian Allaire in,
[32:39] Speaker 3: who's again another sort of Vau-Veghorst type player.
[32:42] Speaker 2: West Ham legend.
[32:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think we're going to talk about Anthony
[32:46] Speaker 3: a little bit, but when Anthony was at Ajax with
[32:49] Speaker 3: Sebastian Allaire, he would cut inside onto his left foot,
[32:52] Speaker 3: cross the ball to the back post, and Sebastian Allaire
[32:54] Speaker 3: would score.
[32:56] Speaker 1: With extra space in order to do so, presumably because
[32:58] Speaker 1: Allaire had pushed the backwards line further back.
[33:01] Speaker 3: Sure, he's also just a big boy. So, yeah, I
[33:04] Speaker 3: think if he does join, we'll see Valveco scoring a
[33:07] Speaker 3: lot of back post headers from Anthony Crosses.
[33:09] Speaker 2: Okay.
[33:09] Speaker 1: Well, I do want to talk about Anthony. Before we
[33:11] Speaker 1: do that, though, some great throwback names that Steve has
[33:16] Speaker 1: left here in the plan for us from the current
[33:19] Speaker 1: Turkish Super League goal scoring charts this season as a
[33:21] Speaker 1: side note top goal scorer in the Turkish Super League
[33:24] Speaker 1: goal scoring charts as a side note right now and
[33:26] Speaker 1: Valencia of course who if he hadn't been injured during
[33:28] Speaker 1: the World Cup may indeed have continued that fine scoring
[33:31] Speaker 1: run other names we have here fabio barini remember fabio barini.
[33:35] Speaker 3: Yeah liverpool fame yeah it's like the game isn't it
[33:38] Speaker 3: it's hadji right the second score is he the guy
[33:40] Speaker 3: who came up for the us and scored that really
[33:41] Speaker 3: random goal where it bounced off his leg and went
[33:44] Speaker 3: over the goalkeeper.
[33:44] Speaker 1: So no i didn't read his name because i didn't
[33:46] Speaker 1: know who he was.
[33:47] Speaker 3: If only we had a producer who could tell us
[33:48] Speaker 3: if that was true or not.
[33:50] Speaker 1: Now five minutes later we'll come back and let you
[33:53] Speaker 1: know when steve's finally managed to google that Other names
[33:56] Speaker 1: we have here, Wout Weghorst, of course, Michy Batshuayi, and
[33:59] Speaker 1: Baffertimby Gomez. Yeah, I like Baffertimby Gomez. He's a fantastic player,
[34:02] Speaker 1: isn't he?
[34:03] Speaker 3: Of course, a lot of problems for Manchester United back
[34:04] Speaker 3: in the day, didn't he?
[34:05] Speaker 2: Very much so. Well, there we go. Wasn't that fun?
[34:08] Speaker 1: Now, listen, let's talk about Anthony quickly, because there appears
[34:11] Speaker 1: to be a lot of sort of dialogue, let's say, regarding.
[34:15] Speaker 2: Discourse. Discourse, regarding.
[34:17] Speaker 3: Tenhagian discourse.
[34:19] Speaker 2: Tenhagian discourse.
[34:20] Speaker 1: Well, no, anti-Tenhagian discourse, it would appear. It seems as
[34:23] Speaker 1: though Anthony, very one-footed player, has earned a kind of
[34:29] Speaker 1: reputation as a bit of an easy hit for people,
[34:33] Speaker 1: just to say he's rubbish because he can only play
[34:36] Speaker 1: with one foot. Now, as a left-handed person myself, someone
[34:39] Speaker 1: very aware... of how.
[34:41] Speaker 3: Very one-handed very very one-handed you can be you're actually
[34:44] Speaker 3: quite ambidextrous aren't you.
[34:46] Speaker 2: Uh only when i know no i'm not no um
[34:54] Speaker 2: good lord um.
[34:56] Speaker 1: What was I saying?
[34:57] Speaker 2: Wow, you've really broken yourself on that one. Anthony's all right.
[35:01] Speaker 5: We were in harmony there, did you hear that?
[35:05] Speaker 2: Oh, were we? Anthony scored a goal with his right foot.
[35:08] Speaker 2: He scored a goal with his right foot.
[35:09] Speaker 1: The point I'm making is that most of the discourse
[35:12] Speaker 1: around Anthony so far seems to be, he can only
[35:14] Speaker 1: play with one foot. Having said that, He's played something
[35:17] Speaker 1: like 10 games. He's scored four goals or five now,
[35:20] Speaker 1: is it? Mostly with that one foot. Mostly doing the
[35:23] Speaker 1: same thing that people don't really seem to be able
[35:25] Speaker 1: to stop as.
[35:25] Speaker 2: Easily given that he's scored four goals. I think I
[35:27] Speaker 2: know why people don't like him.
[35:28] Speaker 1: But also, I do want to hear it, but also
[35:31] Speaker 1: he played for Ten Hag before. He seems to do
[35:33] Speaker 1: an awful lot off the ball that isn't referenced at
[35:36] Speaker 1: all in these conversations about why people don't like him.
[35:40] Speaker 1: But what do you think the issue is, JJ?
[35:42] Speaker 5: Because when he gets the ball wide, you're excited because
[35:44] Speaker 5: it's a winger. And it's not because it's Man United
[35:46] Speaker 5: and you think, right, Giggs is going to run past everyone.
[35:48] Speaker 5: But he gets the ball wide on the wing. He
[35:51] Speaker 5: can't go past people. He doesn't really have that pure
[35:54] Speaker 5: speed to do it. And he's playing against defenders who
[35:57] Speaker 5: are all really good 1v1. So you just can't really
[35:59] Speaker 5: dribble past. So you have to go backwards. It looks
[36:01] Speaker 5: like you've got no creativity or ideas or whatever. but
[36:04] Speaker 5: there's loads of examples when Anthony there's a I was
[36:06] Speaker 5: trying to think what it was it was when I
[36:09] Speaker 5: was doing the Macassar Miro research there's like a little
[36:11] Speaker 5: spell of play that I think shows how well Anthony
[36:14] Speaker 5: plays in that team and how he just moves into
[36:17] Speaker 5: positions where he needs to be like fill in the
[36:18] Speaker 5: gaps that you're meant to in the ten high game
[36:21] Speaker 5: system but he receives the ball and the half turn
[36:24] Speaker 5: is back to well not half turn it was back
[36:25] Speaker 5: to goal but knows exactly what's behind him spins between
[36:27] Speaker 5: two players which then allows him to put a ball
[36:29] Speaker 5: through for Fernandes and a run from out to in
[36:31] Speaker 5: which gets a chance on goal, which United wouldn't be
[36:34] Speaker 5: able to do with the players they previously had there.
[36:36] Speaker 5: What they started doing as well is getting Bruno Fernandes,
[36:38] Speaker 5: I'm just trying to say his name properly, where he
[36:40] Speaker 5: goes out wide to the right, so you get two
[36:42] Speaker 5: different angles of crossing, you've got the two curves, two
[36:46] Speaker 5: different curves, easier to describe this as you're watching it
[36:49] Speaker 5: on the podcast version on YouTube.
[36:52] Speaker 2: You've just drawn curves with your fingers.
[36:54] Speaker 5: Yeah and you can't hear that but if I do
[36:55] Speaker 5: it more no if you do it more vigorously yeah
[36:58] Speaker 5: maybe it'll work but maybe that's another thing as well
[37:00] Speaker 5: different angles to get the ball in it but he's
[37:02] Speaker 5: a decent player you just can't not every player can
[37:05] Speaker 5: score 25 goals a season not every player if his
[37:09] Speaker 5: return this season is like 8 goals and 7 assists
[37:11] Speaker 5: that's quite good which is.
[37:13] Speaker 1: Expensive for us seems like it might be though I
[37:15] Speaker 1: mean also John it's not just what a player does
[37:17] Speaker 1: on the ball right like Ten Haag clearly wants to
[37:20] Speaker 1: play in a certain way and seemingly believes that Anthony
[37:24] Speaker 1: offers something to that the players already at Manchester United don't.
[37:27] Speaker 1: What do you think that would be if it's not
[37:29] Speaker 1: just cutting inside and shooting with the left foot?
[37:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, one of the biggest impacts I think
[37:33] Speaker 3: Eric Ten Haag has had is being able to implement
[37:37] Speaker 3: a form of pressing which has improved them in games
[37:40] Speaker 3: where they might not usually have as much control. So
[37:44] Speaker 3: now Manchester United are much better at pressing in the
[37:45] Speaker 3: final third. It means against teams who maybe would cause
[37:49] Speaker 3: them a lot of problems if they ended up just
[37:50] Speaker 3: being forced further and further back and they're able to
[37:53] Speaker 3: stop that and Anthony is really important to their forward
[37:55] Speaker 3: press so Anthony is very good in those situations I
[38:00] Speaker 3: like to describe as hybrid pressing when you've got a
[38:02] Speaker 3: player who's going to go man for man on different
[38:05] Speaker 3: players in different scenarios so if the ball's on one
[38:08] Speaker 3: side of the field he'll be responsible for one player
[38:11] Speaker 3: if the ball's on the other side he is responsible
[38:13] Speaker 3: for the other and he has to almost sit between
[38:14] Speaker 3: those two players and read which player to go to
[38:16] Speaker 3: in any given moment Manchester United don't have anyone else
[38:20] Speaker 3: who can read the play quite so well at this.
[38:22] Speaker 1: Point It's a job that isn't entrusted to any other
[38:25] Speaker 1: player currently.
[38:26] Speaker 3: Sure I think they could use like Alanga is fairly
[38:29] Speaker 3: good but the thing with Anthony is he's worked with
[38:32] Speaker 3: Eric Ten Hag for a number of seasons now right
[38:34] Speaker 3: so you're not only going to bring in a player
[38:36] Speaker 3: who you know what their upside is going to be
[38:38] Speaker 3: in possession but he is also a player who understands
[38:42] Speaker 3: those sorts of hybrid systems so that Ten Hag can
[38:45] Speaker 3: bring him in he was excellent for example in both
[38:47] Speaker 3: the the Spurs and Chelsea games, which a lot of
[38:49] Speaker 3: people saw as being a really big turning point for
[38:52] Speaker 3: the Eric Ten Hag system as well. So I think that, yeah,
[38:56] Speaker 3: he's probably one of the best wingers in terms of
[38:59] Speaker 3: out-of-possession stuff in the league as well. People aren't going
[39:01] Speaker 3: to focus on that as much because people don't focus
[39:04] Speaker 3: on the out-of-possession stuff as much. But I think that's
[39:05] Speaker 3: been a really important aspect to the way that they play.
[39:09] Speaker 1: It's good to hear that, though, because whilst I don't
[39:11] Speaker 1: seek to only defend Anthony, I don't really care about that.
[39:14] Speaker 1: What I do care about is when all of a
[39:17] Speaker 1: sudden it seems like everyone is allowed to just go, oh,
[39:20] Speaker 1: we can only shoot with one foot and therefore he's
[39:22] Speaker 1: * * * *, which just seems like too easy
[39:25] Speaker 1: a hit for me to want to allow people to
[39:27] Speaker 1: get away with.
[39:27] Speaker 2: We said it early. Yeah, now we've moved on to
[39:29] Speaker 2: a new one.
[39:30] Speaker 1: Thing.
[39:30] Speaker 3: I think it's worth saying as well that wing dynamics
[39:33] Speaker 3: are an important aspect of what wingers can do and
[39:36] Speaker 3: we've talked a lot about how Diogo Dalot is playing
[39:38] Speaker 3: a fairly, I said Dalot and you're going to be like,
[39:41] Speaker 3: it's Dalot, isn't it?
[39:41] Speaker 2: I didn't say anything.
[39:42] Speaker 3: You looked at me though with those judgmental eyes.
[39:44] Speaker 2: I live inside your head.
[39:45] Speaker 3: Diogo Dalot has been playing a really interesting role in
[39:50] Speaker 3: that team. He likes to attack very centrally. There's almost
[39:53] Speaker 3: times where he looks like he's playing a 10 position.
[39:55] Speaker 3: And I think that is a downside to Anthony's game
[39:58] Speaker 3: because I think, as JJ said, if you get him
[40:01] Speaker 3: 1v1 isolated against fullbacks, he doesn't look as dangerous as
[40:05] Speaker 3: he could do. But as soon as you start getting
[40:06] Speaker 3: players around him, it then becomes a lot easier for
[40:09] Speaker 3: him to get in to hit the bylines behind, et cetera,
[40:11] Speaker 3: et cetera. And so I think that there's definitely something
[40:14] Speaker 3: going on with the players around him at the moment.
[40:16] Speaker 3: They're not getting those players around him and they're not
[40:17] Speaker 3: seeing that upside from him.
[40:19] Speaker 2: But when they sign Sancho for loads of money, he
[40:21] Speaker 2: just doesn't get in the team. I remember that, yeah.
[40:25] Speaker 2: I do remember that. He's meant to be in that position,
[40:26] Speaker 2: isn't he?
[40:27] Speaker 1: I'm curious to see what happens with that over the
[40:29] Speaker 1: next year or two. I feel like that is, with
[40:33] Speaker 1: the team doing well, with lots of the players doing well,
[40:35] Speaker 1: with Rashford's red-hot form at the moment, Casemiro, as you mentioned.
[40:39] Speaker 2: Why are you smiling? Because I said red-hot. We didn't
[40:42] Speaker 2: say it in your Joe Devine voice. You did it
[40:44] Speaker 2: like a normal... Do you know why? It's being in
[40:46] Speaker 2: front of this... Oh, it's an eye-watering amount they paid
[40:48] Speaker 2: for Jadon Sancho, isn't it?
[40:49] Speaker 1: It's being in front of this big podcast microphone in
[40:52] Speaker 1: a podcast studio makes me go, with their red-hot form
[40:55] Speaker 1: at the moment. It's interesting to see what will happen
[40:57] Speaker 1: with the Jadon Sancho story over the next.
[41:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[41:00] Speaker 1: Now, listen, let's read now Steve's, one of Steve's... No,
[41:06] Speaker 1: he's got the Hadji Wright answer. Oh, the Hadji Wright answer. Yeah,
[41:09] Speaker 1: that was only 10 minutes, wasn't it?
[41:11] Speaker 3: How long?
[41:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, about that, about that.
[41:14] Speaker 1: It's a slow computer and really heavy keys on my laptop,
[41:17] Speaker 1: I think. Well, listen, you might even need to remind
[41:19] Speaker 1: people what we were talking about. So do you want
[41:22] Speaker 1: to do that now?
[41:23] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
[41:23] Speaker 1: So the question was, Hadji Wright, was he the American
[41:25] Speaker 1: who scored the unusual goal for the USA against the
[41:28] Speaker 1: Netherlands in the World Cup?
[41:30] Speaker 4: Yes.
[41:31] Speaker 2: Do you know what's a funny thing? It's called a laptop,
[41:34] Speaker 2: a computer. Yeah, I do that. Because a computer is
[41:37] Speaker 2: like a... Well, no, that's a desktop. No, a computer
[41:40] Speaker 2: is like a thing you get in a room that
[41:42] Speaker 2: you go into. No, no, the computer.
[41:43] Speaker 1: It's either on the desktop or it's on the laptop.
[41:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[41:48] Speaker 3: Do you know what I like? I like when people
[41:49] Speaker 3: refer to computers as supercomputers.
[41:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that too.
[41:52] Speaker 3: Opta, is it Opta or is it 538? One of
[41:54] Speaker 3: the big... and they're like, oh, supercomputer thinks this. It's
[41:58] Speaker 3: just a computer, isn't it?
[41:59] Speaker 1: It's a normal supercomputer. And you're always glitching.
[42:03] Speaker 5: Speaking of supercomputers, for the next answer you ask me,
[42:05] Speaker 5: shall I get ChatGPT to write my answer?
[42:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good idea. Let's try that. Now listen,
[42:10] Speaker 2: here's Steve's segue. I'll read it just as it's written.
[42:15] Speaker 1: From one team who might be getting a striker, that
[42:17] Speaker 1: would have worked if we hadn't talked about the Haji
[42:19] Speaker 1: Wright thing.
[42:20] Speaker 3: He's a striker, to be fair.
[42:21] Speaker 1: Haji Wright is a striker, and the USA might be
[42:23] Speaker 1: getting him from one team who might be getting a
[42:27] Speaker 1: striker again it doesn't work to another who might be
[42:30] Speaker 1: better without the best striker in the world ellipsis but
[42:34] Speaker 1: also Chelsea before that ellipsis I have confused myself that's
[42:39] Speaker 1: what Steve said final ellipsis before all of that ellipsis
[42:44] Speaker 1: a break ellipsis that's this quality work right there wow
[42:49] Speaker 1: yeah it's returning from a break now it was a
[42:51] Speaker 1: lovely break wasn't it Chelsea a 10th JJ, some would
[42:57] Speaker 1: call that a surprise.
[42:59] Speaker 2: Yes, well, I think they need to break it first. Right,
[43:02] Speaker 2: before they can fix it. And they're doing quite a
[43:04] Speaker 2: good job of it. So maybe that was the thing.
[43:06] Speaker 1: It does seem like that terrible form, been knocked out
[43:09] Speaker 1: of both domestic cups by Manchester City. Of course, Chelsea
[43:12] Speaker 1: just lost two games in a row in three days
[43:14] Speaker 1: to Manchester City, one of the Premier League. Oh no,
[43:16] Speaker 1: was it one of the League Cup and then one
[43:17] Speaker 1: of the FA Cup?
[43:19] Speaker 5: It was in the Premier League and then the FA
[43:20] Speaker 5: Cup in close succession. There's a real thing with Graham Potter.
[43:23] Speaker 5: So when you take over as a manager at a
[43:25] Speaker 5: new club, I don't think it matters who you are.
[43:28] Speaker 5: I think you, and this sounds so stupid, but you
[43:30] Speaker 5: have to win the first few games. Otherwise, people are
[43:33] Speaker 5: just like, huh?
[43:34] Speaker 2: You want to take people with you. This is worse
[43:36] Speaker 2: than it was before. I don't like this. And then
[43:38] Speaker 2: it's just, I mean.
[43:40] Speaker 1: It's funny when you say that. I often think in
[43:41] Speaker 1: many ways, the worst thing about football is the fans.
[43:45] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
[43:46] Speaker 1: And I know that's not what you're supposed to say.
[43:48] Speaker 1: You're supposed to say, as everyone says, because also it's
[43:52] Speaker 1: the best thing. And that's true, right? It only exists
[43:55] Speaker 1: because of. Its purpose is only to serve.
[43:58] Speaker 2: I appreciate all of that.
[44:00] Speaker 1: But when you look at it from the perspective that
[44:02] Speaker 1: we do on a day-to-day basis, it does seem that
[44:05] Speaker 1: large groups of people make rash decisions together that maybe
[44:09] Speaker 1: don't deserve to be considered.
[44:11] Speaker 2: But I think also it's like the players will then.
[44:15] Speaker 5: Their employer, the new manager comes in. So they'll be thinking, well,
[44:18] Speaker 5: we'll see what this guy's about. Imagine like, imagine you died, right?
[44:22] Speaker 5: And then we broke all your bones. And then I-
[44:25] Speaker 5: Before or after? Like during this podcast, I'm going to
[44:27] Speaker 5: break all your bones right now.
[44:28] Speaker 2: Before I die? Yeah. Oh Christ.
[44:30] Speaker 3: Is that why he died?
[44:32] Speaker 2: Is that why?
[44:33] Speaker 5: I've just had a weird couple of weeks, right? So then,
[44:36] Speaker 5: so then, right? So you're a boneless person. And you
[44:39] Speaker 5: can't run T4 anymore. So then I'll be like, JJ
[44:42] Speaker 5: steps up.
[44:42] Speaker 2: Here I come, right? Wait, I haven't got... Hang on,
[44:44] Speaker 2: I haven't got any... You're not here anymore. You're gone.
[44:46] Speaker 2: I'm dead. You're gone. You're in the shadow realm.
[44:47] Speaker 3: So you've killed Jode so you can run T4.
[44:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[44:50] Speaker 3: It's probably not the best form.
[44:51] Speaker 4: To admit this.
[44:52] Speaker 2: No, no, not so I can do it, but it's
[44:52] Speaker 2: just like... Right? So then I step up and say,
[44:55] Speaker 2: everyone's then looking to me for leadership. Yeah. And then
[44:58] Speaker 2: if I make a couple of stupid errors... Which is likely. Yeah,
[45:02] Speaker 2: it's very likely.
[45:03] Speaker 5: Then they'd be like, I don't know this guy, he
[45:06] Speaker 5: should be the one in charge, even though everything else
[45:07] Speaker 5: to do is actually really smart.
[45:09] Speaker 2: Well, exactly.
[45:09] Speaker 1: And in that situation, heightened situation, the crowd of people around,
[45:14] Speaker 1: because they would gather together, and they'd start to... They'd
[45:17] Speaker 1: be quiet murmurings. They'd make reasonable points. They'd be like, well,
[45:19] Speaker 1: he's a friend of ours and we should give him
[45:21] Speaker 1: some time. And then you'd hear a voice from.
[45:22] Speaker 2: The back going, let's stamp him in the heart. And
[45:24] Speaker 2: someone goes, oh, everyone's voice is welcome here.
[45:27] Speaker 1: And anyway, my point is more just that, you know,
[45:30] Speaker 1: if 30,000 people think something emotionally, is that.
[45:37] Speaker 2: Well, I think we talked about this in the podcast before.
[45:39] Speaker 2: I just.
[45:40] Speaker 5: I think it's important in like Chelsea, there's a certain
[45:43] Speaker 5: thing you associate with certain clubs and Chelsea are with superstars,
[45:47] Speaker 5: with all money and like the drama comes along with it.
[45:51] Speaker 5: And Tuchel, I think probably some of the stuff he did,
[45:52] Speaker 5: like you think of him on the touchline, he was
[45:54] Speaker 5: like a Tasmanian devil a lot, just spinning around and
[45:58] Speaker 5: sending people flying into the air.
[46:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, just like Taz. That's what he did, like Taz.
[46:02] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[46:03] Speaker 2: And that's never a good reference for the kids.
[46:04] Speaker 5: And so, um, Hey, so that's, there's something about that, right?
[46:08] Speaker 5: And the fans often want to see themselves in the
[46:11] Speaker 5: manager on the sidelines because they want to be in charge.
[46:13] Speaker 2: And see what's all going on.
[46:14] Speaker 5: And Chuko was this crazy dramatic, uh, kind of figure
[46:18] Speaker 5: on the touchline that would over act things and make
[46:21] Speaker 5: it look nuts. I think a lot of it's probably
[46:23] Speaker 5: performative on purpose because it helps deal with psychology of
[46:26] Speaker 5: how you manage this group of superstars. So they see
[46:28] Speaker 5: that this guy looks mad, but he's not. He's totally
[46:31] Speaker 5: in control of everything he's doing. But it seems mad
[46:33] Speaker 5: and you've got to listen to this guy because, oh
[46:34] Speaker 5: my God, we've won games and this guy knows what
[46:36] Speaker 5: he's talking about. And even though he's asking us to
[46:37] Speaker 5: do crazy, like, loads of loads of work and training
[46:40] Speaker 5: all these things I don't really understand I'll go with
[46:42] Speaker 5: it whereas Potter seems very reserved methodical and almost like
[46:47] Speaker 5: he's been given a good chance to go up to
[46:48] Speaker 5: Chelsea it's a little bit different he's not brought in
[46:50] Speaker 5: this superstar rolling a Ferrari and saying let's roll boys
[46:54] Speaker 5: like he's walked in going.
[46:55] Speaker 1: Oh it's nice to meet you he's not smoking a
[46:56] Speaker 1: cigar exactly holding a grenade exactly yeah yeah so like
[47:01] Speaker 1: and I think that's probably relevant because the players will
[47:04] Speaker 1: all know who he is and respect him as a
[47:06] Speaker 1: professional because that's what they'll do but there'll be a
[47:08] Speaker 1: certain a certain difference of profile that he has to
[47:12] Speaker 1: Tuchel now it's not to say that they don't have
[47:15] Speaker 1: the same ability of being coaches but a lot of
[47:18] Speaker 1: what a manager is is the psychology of it and
[47:20] Speaker 1: whereas Potter has studied psychology I think he's human behaviour
[47:23] Speaker 1: is one of the things he's graduated with.
[47:25] Speaker 3: He did a masters and focused on that.
[47:27] Speaker 5: So he'll know how to do that but then that's
[47:29] Speaker 5: all very well learning the theory but applying it to
[47:31] Speaker 5: these super millionaires like to get to the level those
[47:33] Speaker 5: Chelsea players are at you've got to be you've got
[47:36] Speaker 5: to have a certain kind of mind that's very hard
[47:37] Speaker 5: to control even if you know how to and I
[47:39] Speaker 5: think Tuchel just had that natural aura about him it's
[47:41] Speaker 5: maybe it was a thing and we're seeing it with
[47:43] Speaker 5: Chelsea now is like how do you rev up players
[47:45] Speaker 5: to get going if you're still tweaking things the same
[47:48] Speaker 5: way we're talking it's hard to get that going right.
[47:50] Speaker 3: So much does come down to results though right if
[47:52] Speaker 3: if Thomas Tuchel hadn't won that Champions League final I
[47:55] Speaker 3: don't think he'd have lasted as long as he did
[47:57] Speaker 3: because that trajectory that we're still seeing Chelsea on right
[48:00] Speaker 3: now was happening certainly the beginning of this season, right? And,
[48:04] Speaker 3: you know, there was always that sense of, oh, Thomas
[48:08] Speaker 3: Tuchel came in, he made Chelsea defensively sound and he
[48:12] Speaker 3: was going to make them better going forward. And it just,
[48:14] Speaker 3: it never really happened.
[48:16] Speaker 5: I thought it seems well when Tuchel was there because
[48:18] Speaker 5: he looked back at it a bit with, it's almost
[48:20] Speaker 5: romantic to look back on what he did because he
[48:21] Speaker 5: won Champions League and so you think it was amazing.
[48:23] Speaker 5: But I remember thinking early on, like the players will
[48:26] Speaker 5: get so tired of this constant energy and that sort
[48:29] Speaker 5: of thing. I can't see how that would last longer
[48:31] Speaker 5: than a year and a half.
[48:32] Speaker 3: Two at the moment. So much of it does come
[48:33] Speaker 3: down to results, though, and I think that's why you're correct, Joe,
[48:36] Speaker 3: and it's interesting with the Chelsea fans because it's not
[48:38] Speaker 3: only that fans expect results. It's that Chelsea fans, since 2003,
[48:44] Speaker 3: when Roman Abramovich came in, have been conditioned to think
[48:47] Speaker 3: in a certain way about what successful performance from a
[48:51] Speaker 3: team looks like, right? And that is, oh, well, we
[48:54] Speaker 3: can solve problems through bringing in elite managers... on really
[48:57] Speaker 3: eventually short contracts because they bring in a manager to
[49:02] Speaker 3: manage all of these really expensive assets that they have.
[49:04] Speaker 3: And if it doesn't work, then they just bring someone
[49:05] Speaker 3: else in. And now they've just flipped a switch. They've
[49:08] Speaker 3: got new owners in. And those owners have said, we're
[49:10] Speaker 3: going to try and do things sustainably.
[49:12] Speaker 2: We're going to hire a process coach.
[49:14] Speaker 3: Yeah. And it seems to me that a lot of
[49:16] Speaker 3: the Chelsea fans are just simply cannot have the patience
[49:19] Speaker 3: for that sort of approach to work and so they're
[49:22] Speaker 3: in this situation as a.
[49:23] Speaker 2: Club perhaps they can have the patience they're just not
[49:25] Speaker 2: used to.
[49:26] Speaker 3: It yeah yeah perhaps a lot of what i see
[49:28] Speaker 3: on twitter is people being like this isn't we're not
[49:31] Speaker 3: seeing any changes right now so therefore the whole process
[49:33] Speaker 3: is is valid we should at least be seeing some
[49:36] Speaker 3: change now and the.
[49:36] Speaker 5: Patience as well that that surely runs out really quickly
[49:39] Speaker 5: when you get to the point like you can be
[49:40] Speaker 5: patient with it if you're going to probably finish around
[49:42] Speaker 5: fourth when you start to really drop out and then
[49:44] Speaker 5: you're worried that your champions league place and the money
[49:46] Speaker 5: that brings and the prestige.
[49:47] Speaker 1: 10 points away from fourth right.
[49:49] Speaker 5: It's only 10 points right so they can it's still
[49:51] Speaker 5: more than half a season to go there's an.
[49:53] Speaker 3: Extra game i mean they've not had a window under
[49:55] Speaker 3: under potter despite the fact that it did seem as
[49:57] Speaker 3: though some of the players they brought in in the
[49:59] Speaker 3: summer were because they wanted to bring Potter in.
[50:01] Speaker 2: Right.
[50:01] Speaker 1: But well, we should contextualize this conversation as well. Uh,
[50:04] Speaker 1: we can talk more about Potter if we want to,
[50:06] Speaker 1: but we should talk about Chelsea's injury list right now
[50:08] Speaker 1: because N'Golo Kante, Rhys James, Wesley Fofana, Ben Chilwell, Armando Abroya, uh,
[50:14] Speaker 1: Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Raheem Sterling, Christian Pulisic, Edouard Mendy, and Pierre-Emerick
[50:18] Speaker 1: Aubameyang are all injured right now, which is a lot
[50:21] Speaker 1: of players and a lot of first team players there. Um,
[50:24] Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons why in the two
[50:26] Speaker 1: games against Manchester City recently, we've seen Graham Potter experiment
[50:28] Speaker 1: with some of Chelsea's youth players. Speaking of a kind
[50:31] Speaker 1: of identity and clash of identity with what the new
[50:34] Speaker 1: ownership and Graham Potter are doing now versus what came before,
[50:37] Speaker 1: it's a sort of odd experience, quite novel, to even
[50:39] Speaker 1: watch a Chelsea team, particularly in a big game, playing
[50:42] Speaker 1: youth players or playing players whose names I don't know.
[50:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, you're in this sort of weird zone
[50:50] Speaker 3: where Chelsea have brought in, they've got a horribly clunky squad.
[50:54] Speaker 3: They've got a lot of players who are sort of
[50:55] Speaker 3: throwbacks to that era where they would just spend money
[50:58] Speaker 3: and sort of hope it.
[50:59] Speaker 2: To the clunkers.
[51:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. And then even some of the
[51:04] Speaker 3: transfers that they brought in in the summer, like Raheem Sterling,
[51:07] Speaker 3: I think has just been one of the worst, badly
[51:10] Speaker 3: conceived transfers of the summer window for an elite side, really.
[51:15] Speaker 3: Because there's just not that joined up thinking. you're in
[51:19] Speaker 3: a situation where you've, you come into a squad, which
[51:21] Speaker 3: is sort of, sort of has all of these vestigial
[51:23] Speaker 3: remainders of like times past when they were just bringing
[51:26] Speaker 3: in players and, and hoping managers would sort out the
[51:28] Speaker 3: problems as they went. And then they're in this, this
[51:31] Speaker 3: situation now where they want this process manager to have
[51:34] Speaker 3: an immediate impact.
[51:35] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[51:36] Speaker 3: And, and, and turn things around. And I, like on
[51:39] Speaker 3: the one hand, I have sympathy for Chelsea fans because
[51:43] Speaker 3: the big gamble here is using a process coach at
[51:47] Speaker 3: that kind of club, right? Which, I have no doubt
[51:49] Speaker 3: that if you put Graham Potter in almost any club
[51:51] Speaker 3: in the Premier League and gave him three seasons, that
[51:54] Speaker 3: club would be in a better situation after three seasons
[51:56] Speaker 3: than when he arrived. But you can't just do that
[51:59] Speaker 3: with elite sides necessarily. It's never quite so simple as
[52:02] Speaker 3: that because there is that, I think, a more greater
[52:05] Speaker 3: need for immediate impact.
[52:06] Speaker 2: There's the requirement to finish minimum fourth.
[52:09] Speaker 3: So yeah, for me, this is all down to how much...
[52:13] Speaker 3: how brave is Todd Bowley going to be, right?
[52:16] Speaker 1: It's quite interesting, though, isn't it, when you put it
[52:18] Speaker 1: that way? Because what elite clubs in the Premier League
[52:21] Speaker 1: do is they maintain a wage bill and a payment
[52:24] Speaker 1: structure that requires them to finish in the top four.
[52:27] Speaker 1: And if they don't for a couple of seasons, it
[52:29] Speaker 1: starts to have a really negative impact. But that kind
[52:32] Speaker 1: of prevents them from ever really having these massive reshuffles
[52:35] Speaker 1: and resets. Like the requirement for a new manager for
[52:37] Speaker 1: a top four team is just completely different to any
[52:40] Speaker 1: other this is.
[52:41] Speaker 3: What man united are trying to do right now right
[52:43] Speaker 3: they've they've tried to restructure their wage bill and they
[52:45] Speaker 3: were trying to persuade david to take like 150 000
[52:49] Speaker 3: a week wage reduction to fit into this payment structure
[52:52] Speaker 3: but yeah it's really it's really tough to i think
[52:55] Speaker 3: manage a process system when you are coming out of
[52:58] Speaker 3: a system where they were whatever it was was it
[53:01] Speaker 3: a million every week or so that they were just
[53:04] Speaker 3: writing off his losses at Chelsea. It was a lot
[53:06] Speaker 3: of money.
[53:06] Speaker 2: It was a lot of money. I can't remember how much.
[53:07] Speaker 3: It was being written off every week. And yeah, it's
[53:10] Speaker 3: going to be tough to move from those things as well.
[53:13] Speaker 3: The other thing that I find fascinating about this is
[53:15] Speaker 3: that Graham Potter was really good when he came in
[53:16] Speaker 3: in terms of results, right? So they had the draw
[53:20] Speaker 3: against RB Salzburg, which was his opening game. And they
[53:23] Speaker 3: beat Crystal Palace 2-1. They beat AC Milan 3-0. They
[53:26] Speaker 3: beat Wolves 3-0. They beat AC Milan 2-0. They beat
[53:29] Speaker 3: Aston Villa 2-0. Then they had a couple of draws,
[53:31] Speaker 3: one against Brentford, one against Manchester United. They beat Salzburg.
[53:33] Speaker 3: The first loss under Graham Potter was that loss against Brighton.
[53:37] Speaker 3: And it felt like immediately at that point, they were like,
[53:39] Speaker 3: the fans were like, this isn't good enough.
[53:40] Speaker 1: Well, also, I mean, this is kind of around the
[53:42] Speaker 1: point where the injury crisis begins. I mean, is it
[53:45] Speaker 1: possible that we're having a huge conversation when actually that
[53:48] Speaker 1: bit in the middle where they've got like 11 significant
[53:51] Speaker 1: players injured is actually the main thing?
[53:54] Speaker 3: I think it is important. I just think that owners
[53:57] Speaker 3: of elite clubs are under so much pressure that you
[54:00] Speaker 3: can move a manager on after like, I mean, it's
[54:03] Speaker 3: obviously been a poor run since then, but it feels
[54:05] Speaker 3: like it was very, like, I don't know, it was
[54:09] Speaker 3: just a steep drop-off at that point.
[54:12] Speaker 2: Well, there we go.
[54:14] Speaker 1: Do you know what else is a steep drop-off, John?
[54:16] Speaker 1: People's belief that Manchester City are better with Erling Haaland.
[54:20] Speaker 2: Let's talk about this.
[54:21] Speaker 1: Of course, there was some interesting conversation about this over
[54:23] Speaker 1: the weekend and last week. Here's a tweet from OliWasRight.com.
[54:29] Speaker 2: I don't know who this is. Ollie was right. Do
[54:31] Speaker 2: you know who this is, John? No, I don't.
[54:33] Speaker 3: Ollie was not right.
[54:34] Speaker 2: Ollie was right.
[54:35] Speaker 1: It was a tweet with some interesting engagement. Haaland is
[54:37] Speaker 1: the best striker in the league, but City are better
[54:40] Speaker 1: without him. Today, they reverted to their normal levels of
[54:43] Speaker 1: composure and trance creation for multiple players. When Haaland plays,
[54:46] Speaker 1: they just try to feed him while ignoring other options. Now,
[54:51] Speaker 1: I'd love it if someone would just feed me.
[54:53] Speaker 2: That's all I'm thinking. Can someone feed me?
[54:57] Speaker 1: Can you explain to me I just don't think it's true.
[55:03] Speaker 5: I want to look a lot into it and look
[55:05] Speaker 5: at what different numbers will show, whether there's a different
[55:08] Speaker 5: share of goals or chances for other players. But part
[55:11] Speaker 5: of the problem they had before is that the 4-4-2
[55:14] Speaker 5: kind of shape that Guardiola worked on is a 4-2-4.
[55:16] Speaker 2: It's actually a 3-2-5. It always changes whatever.
[55:21] Speaker 5: It had no single striker, so the system worked because
[55:24] Speaker 5: they had no... actual striker there. They pressed really well.
[55:27] Speaker 5: They used Gabriel Jesus sometimes off of the left as
[55:29] Speaker 5: a pressing forward, sometimes the right as well. And then
[55:32] Speaker 5: you'd play Kevin De Bruyne through the middle with someone
[55:35] Speaker 5: like Foden. And all players rotate positions. It's very confusing
[55:38] Speaker 5: to play against. The structure looks out of possession like
[55:40] Speaker 5: a 4-4-2, but it does loads of different things in possession.
[55:43] Speaker 5: And they would create those same sort of chances where
[55:45] Speaker 5: you try and get the ball into wide areas and
[55:46] Speaker 5: you put them across the box into the penalty area.
[55:50] Speaker 2: And that's where you score from the penalty area. But
[55:52] Speaker 2: against big teams.
[55:54] Speaker 5: or against teams who are really good at defending, just
[55:55] Speaker 5: to have a load of momentum behind them, they can
[56:00] Speaker 5: block them down, they can stop them creating those chances,
[56:02] Speaker 5: they know what they're trying to do, so they can
[56:03] Speaker 5: kind of stop it, and then people were saying, well,
[56:05] Speaker 5: they need a big striker, because that's the difference. If
[56:07] Speaker 5: you give a penalty box poacher, you'll get someone who
[56:09] Speaker 5: can score the goals that then get you to the
[56:11] Speaker 5: next level. And I think we saw it in the
[56:12] Speaker 5: Champions League a lot, in different seasons, where if they
[56:15] Speaker 5: just had a player like Haaland in the past, just
[56:17] Speaker 5: trying to feed him, they probably would have won these
[56:18] Speaker 5: games putting the counter and stuff like that, rather than
[56:20] Speaker 5: having to try and intricately pass their way through the
[56:23] Speaker 5: entire pitch to get up the pitch to then create
[56:26] Speaker 5: a chance that someone's not there to score. But you
[56:28] Speaker 5: saw against Chelsea in the FA Cup, they won 4-0,
[56:31] Speaker 5: sure enough, there was a chance early on where I
[56:33] Speaker 5: think Cole Palmer, who's playing on the left side, was he?
[56:38] Speaker 5: He was on the left side anyway, but he shot
[56:40] Speaker 5: the ball into the near post side netting and he
[56:42] Speaker 5: had Foden just waiting for a tap-in. that if he'd
[56:46] Speaker 5: played the pass to Foden, Foden was probably in the
[56:48] Speaker 5: position that Haaland would have been in, and it would
[56:49] Speaker 5: be the same sort of goal. It's just that Haaland's
[56:51] Speaker 5: always in that right position. And I want to know
[56:53] Speaker 5: whether they've scored more goals this season than they had last.
[56:56] Speaker 5: There'll be something that we can look into eventually and
[56:58] Speaker 5: try and find out what it is. I'll do it
[56:59] Speaker 5: in a video IRL or something like that. Or maybe
[57:02] Speaker 5: John will. And then we can figure out what the
[57:04] Speaker 5: difference is. they're not worse with Holland in the team.
[57:09] Speaker 2: I don't think.
[57:09] Speaker 1: No.
[57:10] Speaker 5: They have a different threat, but they can play differently
[57:12] Speaker 5: with them in there. I don't think they can play
[57:13] Speaker 5: the same, exactly the same way with them in, but
[57:15] Speaker 5: that's the whole point of different footballers. They do different
[57:17] Speaker 5: things on the pitch.
[57:19] Speaker 3: Yeah, if you look at the underlying numbers, Manchester City
[57:21] Speaker 3: are putting up better numbers this season. They have a
[57:23] Speaker 3: player who's going to absolutely smash the Premier League goalscoring
[57:27] Speaker 3: record if he stays fit. I don't think you can
[57:29] Speaker 3: say off the back of that that Manchester City are
[57:33] Speaker 3: worse with Holland in the team. I think that's just a,
[57:37] Speaker 3: a nuts argument to make but it again it this
[57:41] Speaker 3: is the level of football that we've reached now there's
[57:44] Speaker 3: there's there's such fine margins that the difference between Arsenal
[57:48] Speaker 3: and I mean Man City are a better side than
[57:50] Speaker 3: Arsenal I'm happy to say that I don't think anyone
[57:54] Speaker 3: but Arsenal fans are going to get particularly.
[57:55] Speaker 2: Mad no there's enough of them I'm sure yeah.
[57:58] Speaker 5: There are a lot of them um you're breaking the
[58:00] Speaker 5: podcast start down again yeah.
[58:03] Speaker 3: I won't be on next week um Manchester City are
[58:07] Speaker 3: a very good side, but very good sides can dominate
[58:09] Speaker 3: games and not win. Manchester City drew with Everton. Everton
[58:13] Speaker 3: had one shot from distance in the whole game. Manchester
[58:17] Speaker 3: City put up about pushing three, if not more, than
[58:21] Speaker 3: three xg yeah and they ended up drawing that yeah
[58:23] Speaker 3: they they ended up drawing that game and.
[58:26] Speaker 1: You think they've just been a bit unlucky across the
[58:27] Speaker 1: course of the season.
[58:28] Speaker 3: Yeah if you compare the results of arsenal and and
[58:31] Speaker 3: manchester city i'd say the differences between them are the
[58:34] Speaker 3: arsenal have had the runs of luck when they've when
[58:36] Speaker 3: they've needed them and manchester city haven't.
[58:38] Speaker 1: The runs of luck i get those often after i
[58:40] Speaker 1: have a curry of despair is that is that okay
[58:47] Speaker 1: I don't want it, but you've done it, though.
[58:48] Speaker 2: Go on, carry on.
[58:49] Speaker 3: So, yeah, we're at that sort of level where, you know,
[58:53] Speaker 3: the very finest margins are determining who's getting the results.
[58:57] Speaker 3: I think the interesting question is, like, how do City
[59:00] Speaker 3: play differently when they have Haaland and when they don't?
[59:02] Speaker 3: And I think there is an argument to be made.
[59:04] Speaker 3: And again, I have... This is just gut I've not
[59:06] Speaker 3: looked at anything on this but I think there's an
[59:08] Speaker 3: argument to be made that before Haaland arrived at Manchester
[59:12] Speaker 3: City Pep Guardiola is almost the most defensive manager in
[59:15] Speaker 3: the Premier League because he's all about control right he
[59:17] Speaker 3: would rather maintain possession in the final third yes he
[59:20] Speaker 3: wants to generate goal scoring chances but if that goal
[59:24] Speaker 3: scoring chance doesn't match up to them keeping the ball
[59:27] Speaker 3: and they end up turning the ball over and being
[59:29] Speaker 3: counted on. He's not going to want to do that.
[59:33] Speaker 3: Whereas I think when you have just the goated finisher
[59:37] Speaker 3: ever in Haaland in the box, you can be a
[59:40] Speaker 3: little bit less risk averse.
[59:42] Speaker 1: Are you saying he's the greatest of all time ever?
[59:45] Speaker 3: Yes.
[59:45] Speaker 2: Wow.
[59:47] Speaker 3: In terms of finishing, if you look at his numbers... Yeah,
[59:50] Speaker 3: of all time and ever... Yeah, both. It's just incredible,
[59:54] Speaker 3: isn't it? I've really covered all of the options.
[59:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Okay.
[59:59] Speaker 3: Anyway, getting back to my serious point that I was making. Yeah,
[1:00:03] Speaker 3: I think when you have a player of that sort
[1:00:05] Speaker 3: of ability in the box, probably better to be a
[1:00:08] Speaker 3: little bit less risk averse and just try and find
[1:00:10] Speaker 3: him because.
[1:00:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, he's going to score.
[1:00:11] Speaker 3: He's probably going to score.
[1:00:12] Speaker 2: There's different options.
[1:00:13] Speaker 5: Another thing as well is that people, like on that tweet,
[1:00:15] Speaker 5: maybe this guy is right as well with the idea
[1:00:17] Speaker 5: that they're just trying to feed him the whole time,
[1:00:18] Speaker 5: but it's the first season he's spent with them and
[1:00:21] Speaker 5: they'll have been looking like... You know, when you're trying
[1:00:23] Speaker 5: to hammer something into someone, you do it again and
[1:00:25] Speaker 5: again and again and again. You do it in the
[1:00:26] Speaker 5: games as well. Keep trying to feed Holland.
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: If my teammate... Give him meat.
[1:00:30] Speaker 3: Feed the goat and he will score.
[1:00:31] Speaker 1: If my teammate was eating so much that he was
[1:00:33] Speaker 1: on the route to absolutely obliterate the Premier League's one
[1:00:36] Speaker 1: season goal scoring record, I'd keep feeding him as much
[1:00:39] Speaker 1: as possible.
[1:00:40] Speaker 2: It just happens, right?
[1:00:41] Speaker 5: He's scoring goals, he's in the right position, and he
[1:00:44] Speaker 5: finishes really well, so that's why his numbers are massive.
[1:00:46] Speaker 5: It's not because they're only trying to score that only
[1:00:48] Speaker 5: one kind of goal. He's then scoring goals, which means
[1:00:51] Speaker 5: they can change the way they play after it.
[1:00:52] Speaker 3: They're also the most flexible team ever. They played Chelsea
[1:00:56] Speaker 3: in the last two games. In the first game, Guardiola
[1:01:00] Speaker 3: got things wrong, expected them to come out with a
[1:01:01] Speaker 3: back five and have this weird system where he had,
[1:01:04] Speaker 3: rather than an inverting full-back, he was sort of pushing...
[1:01:07] Speaker 3: between a centre-back position and a centre-midfield position. That didn't work,
[1:01:10] Speaker 3: so they switched it at half-time, went to a more
[1:01:12] Speaker 3: classic sort of inverting full-back system where the right-back was
[1:01:15] Speaker 3: inverting inside. The next game, they came out with a
[1:01:17] Speaker 3: left-back who inverted, didn't like that, and so went to
[1:01:20] Speaker 3: a classic sort of back four, flat four, so they
[1:01:22] Speaker 3: went 4-2-4. Like, that's all in the space of 180 minutes.
[1:01:26] Speaker 3: So I find it funny when people are like, oh,
[1:01:28] Speaker 3: you know... City are worse with with Haaland as though
[1:01:31] Speaker 3: it's just one size fits all with City it's like
[1:01:34] Speaker 3: either they're playing with City or it's not last night
[1:01:37] Speaker 3: was it last night they played without Gundogan for example
[1:01:39] Speaker 3: they played Foden in in a more central position they
[1:01:42] Speaker 3: had Cole Palmer on the left they had Sergio Gomez
[1:01:45] Speaker 3: is that his name yeah um Sergio Gomez yeah as
[1:01:49] Speaker 3: a as a left back and they haven't played him
[1:01:50] Speaker 3: much The whole setup was completely different. So you can
[1:01:54] Speaker 3: argue that City look better in a 4-2-4 structure if
[1:01:57] Speaker 3: you want, but they use so many different structures all
[1:02:00] Speaker 3: the time. They use so many different personnel in each
[1:02:02] Speaker 3: of those structures that, you know, it's not quite so
[1:02:04] Speaker 3: simple as being like, what are the games where Haaland
[1:02:06] Speaker 3: didn't play versus the ones where he did play? There's
[1:02:08] Speaker 3: a lot more going on than just.
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:02:10] Speaker 1: Take that, Twitter, you pieces of s * * *.
[1:02:13] Speaker 1: Oli was wrong there's.
[1:02:15] Speaker 5: One more interesting bit in Man City Guardiola was asked
[1:02:17] Speaker 5: how Foden doesn't start every single game or something like that.
[1:02:20] Speaker 1: Not that exact question how come Foden doesn't start every
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: single game.
[1:02:22] Speaker 5: Right and all players it matters so he talked about
[1:02:25] Speaker 5: how and this is another thing you think about like
[1:02:26] Speaker 5: Guardiola it says some games you focus on the tactics
[1:02:29] Speaker 5: some games it doesn't matter at all I think it's
[1:02:31] Speaker 5: interesting because it doesn't it's about how your players are
[1:02:34] Speaker 5: ready to play, who's ready to do different things in
[1:02:36] Speaker 5: different situations, who's feeling happy that week, who's had a
[1:02:39] Speaker 5: good week in training, all that sort of stuff. He's
[1:02:41] Speaker 5: got a manager, a locker room he called it, a
[1:02:43] Speaker 5: squad basically, of all these amazing players who could start
[1:02:46] Speaker 5: for any team in the world almost, and give them
[1:02:49] Speaker 5: all enough games, keep them fresh, keep them rotated so
[1:02:52] Speaker 5: they're ready to come in, but also hungry to play.
[1:02:54] Speaker 5: and play them in their right form and feed them
[1:02:57] Speaker 5: yes I know you want them to be hungry and
[1:02:58] Speaker 5: to be fed yes so then you've got Mahrez comes
[1:03:01] Speaker 5: in so at the start of the season Guardiola said
[1:03:03] Speaker 5: that Mahrez didn't look to be as best he wasn't
[1:03:07] Speaker 5: loving football as much as he should have done didn't
[1:03:08] Speaker 5: have that desire and wasn't in his best physical shape
[1:03:13] Speaker 5: and now you see like Mahrez has basically won that
[1:03:16] Speaker 5: that game they won 4-0 on the weekend I mean
[1:03:18] Speaker 5: the first goal was free kick it was amazing the
[1:03:21] Speaker 5: way the technique for that is unbelievable but Mahrez can
[1:03:23] Speaker 5: do that He's a brilliant, probably the best, I think
[1:03:26] Speaker 5: he's one of the best forwards you'll get in Europe
[1:03:28] Speaker 5: just now, but you don't think it because you don't
[1:03:30] Speaker 5: play every single game. He started loads of games on
[1:03:31] Speaker 5: the bench last season even.
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: Yeah. But still got loads of numbers.
[1:03:35] Speaker 5: And so you play Foden 22, three games a season,
[1:03:39] Speaker 5: you're much less than the risk that he gets injured
[1:03:42] Speaker 5: and is out for months and doesn't continue his development.
[1:03:44] Speaker 5: And I think confidence and momentum are two of the
[1:03:45] Speaker 5: most important things for players. You see like, Jadon Sancho
[1:03:49] Speaker 5: now was riding up at Borussia Dortmund really good, goes
[1:03:51] Speaker 5: to Man United and just has that bit of a fall.
[1:03:53] Speaker 5: And now they've sent him on training camps to try
[1:03:55] Speaker 5: and get him to get his confidence back and just
[1:03:58] Speaker 5: be more of the person he was. But it's very
[1:04:00] Speaker 5: hard to find that back again. So where does it
[1:04:01] Speaker 5: go to get that to a lower level? That's your
[1:04:03] Speaker 5: career stagnating and not going the way you want it to.
[1:04:05] Speaker 2: Well, indeed. I mean, it's an exercise in harmony, really,
[1:04:08] Speaker 2: isn't it? There we go. Fascinating stuff.
[1:04:10] Speaker 1: Now, Steve Hankey did remove this from the plan due
[1:04:13] Speaker 1: to timing issues, but I'm going to mention it anyway
[1:04:15] Speaker 1: because I think it's interesting. Roberto Martinez, John. sort of
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: falling up to Portugal there. He's been announced as the
[1:04:22] Speaker 1: new Portugal manager, leaving the Belgium job after quite some time.
[1:04:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, this is an interesting one, isn't it? Because he
[1:04:29] Speaker 3: hardly impressed with Belgium. But I wonder whether or not
[1:04:32] Speaker 3: we've now got to a point where most coaches, professional coaches,
[1:04:35] Speaker 3: want to be in the domestic game. So the dynamic
[1:04:39] Speaker 3: has changed between the country jobs being the really sought-after
[1:04:45] Speaker 3: employable options to A lot of coaches wanting to be
[1:04:48] Speaker 3: working full time, not just having these sort of patchy
[1:04:52] Speaker 3: schedules for their job. And also I think that's where
[1:04:55] Speaker 3: people now, they're going to make a name for themselves
[1:04:58] Speaker 3: in their career at the domestic level. So maybe it's
[1:05:00] Speaker 3: harder to employ people as international coaches and that's why.
[1:05:04] Speaker 1: Do you think it's a bit like being a kind
[1:05:07] Speaker 1: of foreign dignitary or diplomat to a country that has
[1:05:11] Speaker 1: a very, ordinary and secure relationship with your home country
[1:05:15] Speaker 1: and where your job is kind of just to attend
[1:05:17] Speaker 1: events and stuff there's not really much going on whereas
[1:05:20] Speaker 1: some of your friends might want to be at the
[1:05:21] Speaker 1: coalface of politics you know but you're pretty happy just
[1:05:24] Speaker 1: sort of going to wine tea parties yeah yeah i.
[1:05:27] Speaker 3: Think there's probably something in that as well and i
[1:05:29] Speaker 3: guess with martinez he's he's spanish right so he'll be
[1:05:32] Speaker 3: able to communicate probably with the portuguese players to a
[1:05:35] Speaker 3: degree he's.
[1:05:36] Speaker 1: Also uh is it fair to say an improvement on prior.
[1:05:40] Speaker 3: Coach tomato tomato yeah.
[1:05:45] Speaker 1: Of course in Spanish they say tomato and in Portuguese
[1:05:48] Speaker 1: they say tomato let's call the whole thing off well
[1:05:51] Speaker 1: indeed why don't we do that now listen that is
[1:05:53] Speaker 1: the end I think of today's TIFO football podcast what
[1:05:57] Speaker 1: a joy it's been a return for the new year
[1:06:01] Speaker 1: JJ Bull thanking you yes and of course thanks to
[1:06:04] Speaker 1: John McKenzie we look forward to welcoming back Herstaffer Bloor
[1:06:08] Speaker 1: after his break next week I think he's back next week.
[1:06:12] Speaker 1: You've broken him as well, have you? Have I broken him?
[1:06:14] Speaker 1: That's correct, I have, yes. And he's in the hospital.
[1:06:17] Speaker 1: But he'll be returning all patched up and wrapped up in.
[1:06:20] Speaker 2: Stronger. To be clear, Seb is not in the hospital.
[1:06:23] Speaker 1: He might be, we don't know.
[1:06:24] Speaker 2: We just don't know. He's fine. I'm sure he's fine, yeah.
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: Anyway, see you later. Back next week with more.
[1:06:37] Speaker 2: Ta-ra. Ta-ra. Thank you.

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