# NFL Daily 32: Ranking General Managers

An episode of [NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/680904259), 5 Jun 2026, 1 h 39 min.

Audio: https://pdrl.fm/91be81/podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/claritaspod.com/measure/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/9ce11dad-e86a-444f-ba83-ae27003475be/4ab3d787-d5f2-4498-9239-b45f015dd1e1/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=deff018f-4b51-4501-937c-ae27003475d1

Gregg Rosenthal and Jourdan Rodrigue rank the 32 general managers around the NFL. Find out who comes in at first, where the likes of John Schneider, Brett Veach, Les Snead, and Howie Roseman land, and who has room to move up the NFL Daily 32 General Manager rankings. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcasts See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:04] Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're on a heater this week.
[0:07] Speaker 1: I'm Greg Rosenthal talking to my friend Jordan Rodrieg who
[0:11] Speaker 1: is across the city of Los Angeles as votes are
[0:14] Speaker 1: tabulated in our local races, and ready to decide the
[0:18] Speaker 1: most important race. Yes, that's the race to be the
[0:20] Speaker 1: best general manager, as decided by NFL Daily of the
[0:24] Speaker 1: Year twenty twenty six. It is time for the g
[0:28] Speaker 1: M draft. Yes, it's a draft. Jordan, get nervous.
[0:33] Speaker 2: Damn it.
[0:36] Speaker 3: Look the way we're going.
[0:37] Speaker 1: To structure this, we could talk a little bit about
[0:39] Speaker 1: how you decided to order your GMS. We're making it
[0:42] Speaker 1: less of a power ranking, which we've kind of done
[0:44] Speaker 1: in the past at least when it comes to GMS specifically,
[0:46] Speaker 1: but just wanting to be consistent with what we're doing
[0:49] Speaker 1: at the end of each week. It's called the NFL
[0:51] Speaker 1: Daily thirty two. It's our regular series. Different positions were ranking.
[0:55] Speaker 1: We did coaches, that was you me and Ali. Ali
[0:58] Speaker 1: and I have done positions and this GMS, and we're
[1:00] Speaker 1: going to keep the parameters the same, which is just
[1:02] Speaker 1: who would we want running our fictional team.
[1:05] Speaker 3: And in the.
[1:06] Speaker 1: Past I used to say, well, they've got to have
[1:07] Speaker 1: two drafts to even qualify. If we're saying who could
[1:11] Speaker 1: be running our team, Nolan Teasley, who's been running the
[1:14] Speaker 1: Vikings for exactly forty eight hours, is eligible.
[1:18] Speaker 3: So he's gonna be one of the guys.
[1:19] Speaker 1: Ran to Nolan, and I think compared to every other
[1:23] Speaker 1: one that we do in terms of the NFL Daily
[1:25] Speaker 1: thirty two series, Jordan, I'm just speaking for myself. This
[1:30] Speaker 1: one is based moron vibes. The ranking is less important
[1:34] Speaker 1: to me because I think luck and just unknowable factors
[1:39] Speaker 1: matter so much more that I can't know about that,
[1:43] Speaker 1: especially after the first eight or ten or so. I
[1:46] Speaker 1: you know, it's not that important to me where they're slotted.
[1:49] Speaker 1: But a fun excuse to talk about where these front
[1:51] Speaker 1: offices are at.
[1:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.
[1:53] Speaker 4: One of the things that people forget all the time,
[1:56] Speaker 4: and us included sometimes, but I think we're pretty good
[1:59] Speaker 4: about it. Is like being a GM in the NFL.
[2:02] Speaker 4: You like, you're basically thinking, if I am thirty to
[2:07] Speaker 4: thirty five percent successful at one of the key elements
[2:11] Speaker 4: of my profession, which is drafting, then I keep my job.
[2:15] Speaker 4: And getting to that thirty to thirty five percent is
[2:19] Speaker 4: way harder than you would think in terms of hit
[2:23] Speaker 4: rate for prospects, and even that seems like such a
[2:27] Speaker 4: low bar, but it's not. It's so so difficult. And then,
[2:31] Speaker 4: like you mentioned, so many machinations behind the scenes that
[2:36] Speaker 4: this is fun because we we think about it similarly
[2:40] Speaker 4: and then sometimes differently in certain ways too. Like for me,
[2:44] Speaker 4: when I was going through and putting my tears together,
[2:47] Speaker 4: I was looking a lot at infrastructure.
[2:50] Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest roles of.
[2:51] Speaker 4: A GM is how they build out their scouting and
[2:54] Speaker 4: identification process and staff. Do they have a quote unquote
[2:58] Speaker 4: tree that are are the people in their building coveted
[3:02] Speaker 4: by other buildings? Is their process sound, does their process
[3:06] Speaker 4: make sense? And is it continuous enough to have built
[3:10] Speaker 4: up a little bit of data like It's just that
[3:12] Speaker 4: to me was really huge. Can they scout talent like that?
[3:16] Speaker 2: That was a huge part of it, And.
[3:17] Speaker 3: It's such a hard thing to evaluate.
[3:19] Speaker 1: Doing this exercise, I didn't want to, but ultimately probably
[3:22] Speaker 1: did too much punish the people who had their jobs longer.
[3:25] Speaker 1: And I think it goes to something that I've started
[3:27] Speaker 1: to believe more strongly as I cover the lead longer
[3:31] Speaker 1: that luck it's a bigger factor in front office work
[3:35] Speaker 1: than anything else, and that should be obvious. Obviously it's
[3:38] Speaker 1: a factor when you're a player, but your tape is
[3:41] Speaker 1: out there on film. We can evaluate it. Everyone can
[3:43] Speaker 1: evaluate it differently, but you can see it. And I
[3:46] Speaker 1: think the longer timeline that every front office and every
[3:49] Speaker 1: GM has, the closer they are to average, because the
[3:54] Speaker 1: ones who start out draft and hot, they usually can't
[3:57] Speaker 1: keep it going that hot. You know, you aggress to
[4:00] Speaker 1: the mean in a more aggressive way. And obviously there's
[4:04] Speaker 1: some that are great at trades and some are great
[4:06] Speaker 1: at free agency. But for the most part, over a
[4:08] Speaker 1: longer timeline, to me, there's less of a difference of
[4:11] Speaker 1: all these front offices. But it's going to be fun
[4:13] Speaker 1: to talk about who like who would be our style
[4:16] Speaker 1: of who we would want running our team. So I'm
[4:18] Speaker 1: going to give you the first choice and or the
[4:21] Speaker 1: second choice. Actually I will give you the choice which
[4:23] Speaker 1: choice you want, just so you can't say, I, you know,
[4:26] Speaker 1: stack the deck in any way that you don't want
[4:28] Speaker 1: to do whatever you want.
[4:29] Speaker 3: Take one, R two.
[4:30] Speaker 4: Yeah, I was listening to one of the great Chris
[4:33] Speaker 4: Pabona's points that he learned and about winning arguments or
[4:37] Speaker 4: not winning arguments against you.
[4:39] Speaker 2: Greg. So I'm just I just want that said.
[4:43] Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll go with the first pick because I feel
[4:46] Speaker 4: like the first pick is is.
[4:47] Speaker 2: I feel like the top five are pretty obvious.
[4:50] Speaker 4: To be honest, before we start, I do want you
[4:54] Speaker 4: to share with the listener. We did package a couple
[4:57] Speaker 4: of these together. Some of these it's impossible separate the
[5:01] Speaker 4: general manager from the coach, either because they are so
[5:04] Speaker 4: collaborative or because we understand the coach has significant say
[5:09] Speaker 4: in the overall draft and talent identification operation. I don't
[5:13] Speaker 4: want to put you on the spot, but would you
[5:14] Speaker 4: be able to share who those people are?
[5:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we'll get through them. We'll get into him
[5:19] Speaker 3: as we go.
[5:19] Speaker 1: But Mike Rabel Elliott Wolf is the one that made
[5:23] Speaker 1: me realize we have to do it this way because
[5:24] Speaker 1: it just didn't feel right. Even though Elliott Wolf is
[5:26] Speaker 1: the one at the podium, I think Mike Rabel has
[5:29] Speaker 1: more power. So there's a handful of coach GM combos
[5:33] Speaker 1: that were including including Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch, Sean
[5:37] Speaker 1: McVay and Les Sneid, Brett Veach and Andy Reid, and
[5:41] Speaker 1: so some of them will be combinations, and then some
[5:44] Speaker 1: like who I'm guessing is going to be your number
[5:46] Speaker 1: one overall pick, are just pure gms there themselves.
[5:51] Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, the Cult of Howie Roseman is my first
[5:55] Speaker 4: overall pick.
[5:57] Speaker 2: And it's not just that.
[5:59] Speaker 4: I would want him running my team for the foreseeable future.
[6:03] Speaker 4: It's just that he has such a track record of
[6:05] Speaker 4: doing it at such a high level. The Eagles, the
[6:08] Speaker 4: way that the Eagles have been built over the last decade,
[6:14] Speaker 4: maybe a little bit less, but certainly the last you know,
[6:17] Speaker 4: seven five to seven years, it's one of the best
[6:20] Speaker 4: rosters we've seen in I mean, we will be talking
[6:24] Speaker 4: about these rosters in the like the in historical context,
[6:28] Speaker 4: like twenty years from now, if you and I are
[6:30] Speaker 4: still lucky enough to be podcasting at that time. And
[6:33] Speaker 4: he has a sound process that is always changing. Been
[6:38] Speaker 4: fortunate to talk to a couple of people in that
[6:40] Speaker 4: building over the last couple of years, and the way
[6:43] Speaker 4: that they're constantly evolving how they think about talent identification
[6:47] Speaker 4: but continuing to build data within their existing scouting and
[6:51] Speaker 4: draft and free agency infrastructure is fascinating. Always looking for loopholes,
[6:56] Speaker 4: always looking for edges, and advantages. They do this thing
[7:00] Speaker 4: where you know that he's going to be talking to
[7:02] Speaker 4: every team about every player in the entire free agency
[7:07] Speaker 4: or trade period and still can more often than not
[7:10] Speaker 4: get the things he wants done, even though everybody in
[7:13] Speaker 4: the league knows that he's going to do it.
[7:15] Speaker 2: And I like that. It is very, very.
[7:19] Speaker 4: Difficult to exist within that building because especially on the
[7:23] Speaker 4: front office side, because of the way it's built. It
[7:26] Speaker 4: is Howie Roseman at the very top, and then a
[7:29] Speaker 4: ton of executives and pro personnel and scouting director people
[7:35] Speaker 4: who are fighting to be second essentially and or fighting
[7:41] Speaker 4: to be third in some cases, and fighting to climb.
[7:45] Speaker 4: And he the way that he builds it, it's like
[7:49] Speaker 4: he loves to get the best out of people. It's
[7:52] Speaker 4: very Mike Shanahan in my opinion. He likes to get
[7:54] Speaker 4: the best out of people without them ever quite knowing
[7:57] Speaker 4: where they stand, and making a really challenging and competitive
[8:01] Speaker 4: environment to get the best out of people. So that
[8:04] Speaker 4: is not easy to do in every building. It certainly
[8:07] Speaker 4: can't happen in every building, but in that one it
[8:09] Speaker 4: works and I really like it, and I would want
[8:12] Speaker 4: Howie Rosemand running my team.
[8:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if it's always the most fun
[8:16] Speaker 1: place to work. You mentioned the competition. Who's battling for
[8:19] Speaker 1: two or three probably the most common answer, And even
[8:21] Speaker 1: in that building, I think they would have recognized over
[8:22] Speaker 1: the last few years it was Alec Hallaby's and he
[8:25] Speaker 1: just left and so you know, is how he a
[8:28] Speaker 1: Halliby merchant. Now what I wanna think about them is
[8:32] Speaker 1: when I say, like everyone regresses to the mean over
[8:34] Speaker 1: the longer timeline.
[8:35] Speaker 3: For the GMS.
[8:35] Speaker 1: Of course, Howie Roseman has had plenty of misses. You
[8:38] Speaker 1: mentioned like thirty five percent is a great hit rate,
[8:40] Speaker 1: Like they've had big time mistakes. But to be honest,
[8:42] Speaker 1: like since the Jalen Rager pick, the drafts have been
[8:46] Speaker 1: on a heater. I think, like even a Jalen Hurts pick,
[8:49] Speaker 1: which was so underrated and not people were a fan of,
[8:53] Speaker 1: Like people kind of forget what a great pick that was.
[8:56] Speaker 1: But the main reason I have him easily high is
[8:59] Speaker 1: I just think he's always been ahead of the rest
[9:01] Speaker 1: of the game in terms of getting early extensions done
[9:07] Speaker 1: with your great talent, in terms of the line play
[9:11] Speaker 1: that they've always valued at just an extreme level, always
[9:15] Speaker 1: planning the head of drafting positions you're already good at
[9:18] Speaker 1: and planning a couple of years in advance. You know,
[9:21] Speaker 1: they started then zigging when other teams are zagging by
[9:24] Speaker 1: paying like linebacker and running back, which was the thing
[9:26] Speaker 1: that they weren't gonna do when it comes to like
[9:28] Speaker 1: Zack Bond and Saquon Barkley. So just always a little
[9:31] Speaker 1: ahead of the game. Hard to argue with with what
[9:34] Speaker 1: they've done. I'm gonna go number two, which is where
[9:36] Speaker 1: it gets interesting. I agree, there's probably a solid top
[9:38] Speaker 1: five or six. Maybe we do have the same names.
[9:41] Speaker 1: I decided, like the whole point of this is to
[9:43] Speaker 1: win championships. How he's got too. John Schneider's got to,
[9:48] Speaker 1: and so I'm gonna give him the love in this
[9:50] Speaker 1: scenario that he's on.
[9:51] Speaker 3: Just this big of a heater. It is outrageous.
[9:55] Speaker 1: If you start with the twenty twenty two draft, and
[9:57] Speaker 1: I'm gonna read the names off from that draft, Charles
[10:00] Speaker 1: cross Boy, Mafe, Kenneth Walker, Abe Lucas, Kobe Bryant, Tyreek
[10:04] Speaker 1: Will and what an outrageous draft that is. But then
[10:07] Speaker 1: he follows it up with Devin Witherspoon and JSN. Maybe
[10:09] Speaker 1: the best one to two in the first round combination
[10:13] Speaker 1: we've seen and Derek Hall and Zach Scharbaday in that draft,
[10:16] Speaker 1: you know, followed by Byron Murphy and helping to choose
[10:20] Speaker 1: Mike McDonald.
[10:21] Speaker 3: As his coach. That is just a heater.
[10:24] Speaker 1: And I think he's built the depth of this defense,
[10:27] Speaker 1: particularly for Mike McDonald, the Gino Smith decision, getting Darnold.
[10:31] Speaker 3: All of that is to John Schneider's.
[10:34] Speaker 1: Credit, who if we did this exercise five years ago,
[10:37] Speaker 1: would probably been in the middle of the pack. And
[10:39] Speaker 1: he kind of speaks to what I was talking about.
[10:41] Speaker 1: Over a long enough timeline, these guys go up and down.
[10:43] Speaker 1: He was as hot as could be, got as cold
[10:45] Speaker 1: as could be. But the fact that he's now done
[10:47] Speaker 1: it with two different coaches, two different regimes, you know,
[10:51] Speaker 1: I want to give him some love. Even though offensive
[10:53] Speaker 1: line has been an issue that's kind of the one
[10:55] Speaker 1: big negative and interesting this year. He was willing, I think,
[10:58] Speaker 1: to take a little bit of a that back in
[11:00] Speaker 1: terms of his aggression. Would you have to do as
[11:02] Speaker 1: a GM You can't go all agro all the time.
[11:05] Speaker 1: Giving John Schneider his love at number two.
[11:07] Speaker 2: I absolutely love this.
[11:09] Speaker 4: I'm gonna be Honest, Greg, I was thinking about putting
[11:13] Speaker 4: him at one as my pick because to your point,
[11:16] Speaker 4: he is at a peak right now, you know, like
[11:19] Speaker 4: you aptly said, GMS go through peaks and valleys, and
[11:23] Speaker 4: this is a very high peak for him because I
[11:27] Speaker 4: think that he really understood the dynamic and the preferences
[11:32] Speaker 4: of the head coach that he brought in, not in
[11:34] Speaker 4: a way that you saw a lot of these successful teams,
[11:38] Speaker 4: especially last couple of seasons, have the overhang GM take
[11:42] Speaker 4: a total back seat. It was still John Schneider's roster
[11:45] Speaker 4: and he built it as such. But he really understood
[11:49] Speaker 4: with Mike McDonald how they wanted to build this very
[11:54] Speaker 4: very aggressively, but still not over overshoot or overcompensate where
[11:59] Speaker 4: maybe they didn't need to, and I think that it
[12:02] Speaker 4: was masterfully done. He also has rebuilt or retooled without
[12:08] Speaker 4: being like a bad football team in his time. I mean,
[12:12] Speaker 4: he's had these historically good rosters that we do talk
[12:18] Speaker 4: about within the historical context of the sport that have
[12:20] Speaker 4: shaped the sport in different ways. He figures out a
[12:23] Speaker 4: way to do it, and like you mentioned, with multiple
[12:26] Speaker 4: different coaches. It also is a building where I think
[12:31] Speaker 4: I don't think it's not getting hired out of because
[12:35] Speaker 4: for the most part, Nolan Teasley, who was a Seahawks AGM,
[12:38] Speaker 4: just got hired by the Vikings. It's not getting not
[12:41] Speaker 4: hired out of because people don't think they're very good.
[12:44] Speaker 2: He just can keep his people.
[12:46] Speaker 4: People want to stay working for him for as long
[12:49] Speaker 4: as they can because people like working for John Schneider.
[12:52] Speaker 4: When we talk about internal dynamics, they are some The
[12:56] Speaker 4: staff is one of the most well respected team of
[12:59] Speaker 4: scouts and talent evaluators in the entire league, and they
[13:03] Speaker 4: like being there. And I think that it is a
[13:06] Speaker 4: really fascinating case study in not only how to build
[13:08] Speaker 4: a roster, but how to build out and develop your
[13:12] Speaker 4: own internal people over a long period of time. I
[13:16] Speaker 4: cannot say enough good things about what he's done the
[13:18] Speaker 4: last couple of years. And yeah, he was close to
[13:20] Speaker 4: being my top choice.
[13:22] Speaker 1: And look, we say wins losses is not a quarterback
[13:27] Speaker 1: stat necessarily, I do think it is a GM stat.
[13:30] Speaker 1: In sixteen seasons, he's one hundred and sixty one and
[13:33] Speaker 1: ninety nine in the regular season. You know, with obviously
[13:35] Speaker 1: Carol deserves a ton of the credit for a lot
[13:37] Speaker 1: of the team building. But now that we've seen Schneider
[13:40] Speaker 1: do it with someone else, only one losing season for
[13:42] Speaker 1: the Seahawks to your point of always staying competitive since
[13:45] Speaker 1: twenty twelve, so that kind of speaks for itself. You
[13:49] Speaker 1: are up with number three.
[13:51] Speaker 2: Well, shocking everybody.
[13:54] Speaker 4: I'm going to go less Sneed slash Sean McVay, and
[13:56] Speaker 4: this is one of the pairings that we decided would
[13:59] Speaker 4: work together because the two of them are in really
[14:03] Speaker 4: lockstep collaboration and certainly they have their their compromises that
[14:08] Speaker 4: they make over certain parts of the process. I've mentioned
[14:11] Speaker 4: it on this show. I've written about this a lot.
[14:12] Speaker 4: Sean McVay always has in the lion's share of the
[14:17] Speaker 4: say and who eventually they do pick with whatever their
[14:20] Speaker 4: first pick is.
[14:20] Speaker 2: Going to be.
[14:21] Speaker 4: But to build these and in compliment less Need really
[14:25] Speaker 4: understands the types of players that Sean McVay wants. They
[14:28] Speaker 4: go get them. They often capitalize on maybe market inefficiencies elsewhere.
[14:32] Speaker 4: Early on it was building a team around middle to
[14:36] Speaker 4: late middle round picks and complement to superstars. Then they
[14:40] Speaker 4: went to the super Bowl, they won a super Bowl.
[14:43] Speaker 4: Then their roster a lot of injuries in that year,
[14:46] Speaker 4: as well, signing the wrong free agent veteran free agents
[14:48] Speaker 4: and being real top heavy in that in that regard,
[14:52] Speaker 4: then crashed in twenty twenty two and then rebuilt in
[14:54] Speaker 4: totality through twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four with
[14:57] Speaker 4: two of the of the best draft classes we seen
[15:01] Speaker 4: in a long time consecutively, and that really rebuilt them
[15:06] Speaker 4: into playoff and contending status. And certainly they understood each
[15:11] Speaker 4: other and how to do these things, and that was
[15:15] Speaker 4: a part of their success. Is their communication with each
[15:17] Speaker 4: other less need is a big reason why Sean McVay
[15:20] Speaker 4: did not leave coaching. The support that he gave him
[15:23] Speaker 4: during that time and just the camaraderie and they consider
[15:28] Speaker 4: each other as brothers at this point, really leaned on
[15:31] Speaker 4: him during that dark period. And I just think we
[15:35] Speaker 4: have seen this team be so aggressive and they've been
[15:39] Speaker 4: so clear that they want to try to win a
[15:42] Speaker 4: Super Bowl on every single season, even when they're considered
[15:45] Speaker 4: to be rebuilding, even in twenty three when everybody was
[15:48] Speaker 4: laughing at the roster because there was like forty three
[15:52] Speaker 4: players on it at one point, they have been clear
[15:56] Speaker 4: that they want to compete every single season. There are
[15:59] Speaker 4: not many teams that exist in that state of mind.
[16:02] Speaker 4: These two have done it for a decade at this
[16:04] Speaker 4: point are almost a decade. I just think they do
[16:08] Speaker 4: things differently, but in a way that's successful, and so
[16:11] Speaker 4: I would definitely want them if I had, like if
[16:14] Speaker 4: I had a lot of maybe like anxiety medication and
[16:18] Speaker 4: like ways to relax outside of being in the building
[16:23] Speaker 4: like they would, I would be wanting to kind of
[16:25] Speaker 4: live on that live wire with them.
[16:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Less is a great counterbalance, and I
[16:31] Speaker 1: love that point. You made it that he helped to
[16:32] Speaker 1: keep Sean McVay, and look, Less needs record before Sean
[16:36] Speaker 1: McVay is a very big before and after he was
[16:40] Speaker 1: there with Jeff Fisher and everything changed. They're ninety two
[16:43] Speaker 1: and fifty seven in the regular season Sinceean McVay got
[16:46] Speaker 1: there in ten and six in the playoffs, and they
[16:47] Speaker 1: made it happen their way.
[16:48] Speaker 3: They do things differently. You get a few.
[16:50] Speaker 1: Extra points for entertaining me with the Jalen Ramsey trade,
[16:53] Speaker 1: with the Stafford trade, and like you said, they've identified
[16:57] Speaker 1: and I think they're great identifying the people in their
[16:59] Speaker 1: front and then like they couldn't have made this Miles
[17:02] Speaker 1: Garrett trade and new contract.
[17:05] Speaker 3: We'll mention that on Monday.
[17:06] Speaker 1: But they gave Miles Garrett a nice raise according to
[17:09] Speaker 1: Mike Florio on Friday or on Thursday, rather a like
[17:13] Speaker 1: a five and a half million dollars race.
[17:14] Speaker 3: So we'll get the details on that.
[17:16] Speaker 1: But they couldn't have done it unless they nailed all
[17:18] Speaker 1: those defensive line picks, including Jared Verse, but also Byron
[17:22] Speaker 1: Young and Kobe Turner. That is tough to do. They're
[17:25] Speaker 1: at number three. Part of their coaching tree is where
[17:27] Speaker 1: I'm going for four. Brad Holmes is my pick. I
[17:34] Speaker 1: give him more credit because they took over a traditionally
[17:41] Speaker 1: brutal ownership group to win with. I think they still
[17:44] Speaker 1: have obstacles that they are in the same way that
[17:48] Speaker 1: Duke Tobin has obstacles in Cincinnati. I believe the Lions
[17:53] Speaker 1: regime has obstacles. Now you can say, okay, it's different.
[17:56] Speaker 1: Now it's different because Brad Holmes helped to hire Dan Campbell,
[17:59] Speaker 1: and Dan Campbell helped to hire the people that he
[18:03] Speaker 1: did the drafts have. You know, the twenty three draft
[18:06] Speaker 1: was obviously epic. Jamier Gibbs and Brian Branch and you know,
[18:12] Speaker 1: Jack Campbell and Sam Laporta. But before that, like it
[18:15] Speaker 1: was Aiden Hutchinson and Jamison Williams and Kirby Joseph, it
[18:18] Speaker 1: was Pine Sewell and Eli McNeil and a Monra and
[18:21] Speaker 1: Derek Barnes. You really can't draft any better to start
[18:25] Speaker 1: your regime. It hasn't been as good the last couple
[18:27] Speaker 1: of seasons, but the Jared Goff trade I give them
[18:29] Speaker 1: a ton of credit.
[18:30] Speaker 3: Obviously they knew Jared Goff well.
[18:32] Speaker 1: They've poured a ton of resources into the defensive line
[18:35] Speaker 1: without enough I think coming back to them and the
[18:38] Speaker 1: secondary is like, eh, it's been at cornerback, especially with
[18:42] Speaker 1: Terry and Hardold.
[18:42] Speaker 3: It's not all perfect.
[18:44] Speaker 1: They they've started at points you feel like they're really
[18:47] Speaker 1: feeling themselves with some of their picks. Giving up picks
[18:50] Speaker 1: for Giovanni Manu and Isaac Daslaw in the draft.
[18:53] Speaker 3: We'll see.
[18:54] Speaker 1: Tuslav might work out, But I think overall, when you
[18:56] Speaker 1: look at the team, they have an identity. If if
[18:59] Speaker 1: you told me he's running my team, I would feel
[19:03] Speaker 1: really good about it. Brad Holmes, I'm not going to
[19:06] Speaker 1: punish him too much for the last draft or two.
[19:08] Speaker 4: Yes, I like this. I like this for a lot
[19:12] Speaker 4: of reasons because Brad Holmes was he took the scouts
[19:20] Speaker 4: of all scouts path to this and he built skills
[19:24] Speaker 4: and really invested in skills along the way that applied
[19:28] Speaker 4: to the modernization or the growing modernization of the league,
[19:31] Speaker 4: especially when the big data wave came through several years ago,
[19:36] Speaker 4: and then also when some of these processes became a
[19:39] Speaker 4: little bit more technologically oriented, including using GPS data. He
[19:43] Speaker 4: was one of the first people who was using GPS
[19:46] Speaker 4: data to evaluate play speed versus forty times. He was
[19:50] Speaker 4: looking at market and efficiencies at non premium positions behind
[19:55] Speaker 4: the scenes way before a lot of other teams were
[19:57] Speaker 4: doing that and really influenced the RAMS during that his
[20:00] Speaker 4: time with them. I think that he applies this really
[20:03] Speaker 4: modern style of thinking alongside his NFS scouting background, and
[20:09] Speaker 4: NFS scout basically their job back in the still but
[20:13] Speaker 4: especially back in the day, was to write the initial
[20:15] Speaker 4: scouting reports for every player that was draft eligible as
[20:19] Speaker 4: a baseline package for the teams to then go and
[20:22] Speaker 4: choose who they were going to go evaluate on a
[20:24] Speaker 4: deeper level once the cycle hit for that draft class.
[20:27] Speaker 4: So he has this really good eye and understanding of
[20:30] Speaker 4: what needs to be identified in talent. But he also
[20:33] Speaker 4: combines it with this like if I like a guy,
[20:36] Speaker 4: I'm picking him, which I kind of dig I think
[20:38] Speaker 4: that's just a good energy to have if it works
[20:41] Speaker 4: in your building.
[20:42] Speaker 2: And he also really balances Dan Campbell quite well.
[20:45] Speaker 4: They both have this weird going to work as hard
[20:49] Speaker 4: as it takes to get this done the right way,
[20:51] Speaker 4: no matter what it takes mentality.
[20:53] Speaker 2: They're a really good partnership.
[20:55] Speaker 4: I like that it's been a successful partnership despite what
[20:58] Speaker 4: must have been a huge strain in the early years.
[21:01] Speaker 4: And so I agree, I think he's great here. Would
[21:04] Speaker 4: I would be happy if he was running my team.
[21:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, you said you had a solid top five, so well,
[21:09] Speaker 1: we'll see who is in your first tier here. But
[21:13] Speaker 1: I think a commonality with three of the first four.
[21:15] Speaker 1: I would say John Schneider is a pretty traditional guy,
[21:17] Speaker 1: although you know what, he picks the guys he wants to.
[21:19] Speaker 1: He's a more traditional background, but these guys all go
[21:22] Speaker 1: for their guys. Is that true about the end of
[21:24] Speaker 1: your first tier?
[21:25] Speaker 3: Number five?
[21:27] Speaker 4: Yeah, I this is tough for me because I, well,
[21:30] Speaker 4: my first tier is more than five. I did have this,
[21:33] Speaker 4: this was my top five or the first four that
[21:36] Speaker 4: we've picked. These were my top all my top choices too.
[21:40] Speaker 4: I'm actually going to go with an example of probably
[21:45] Speaker 4: our first real coach player combination that where the coach
[21:51] Speaker 4: we know has a significant say in how the team
[21:54] Speaker 4: is built. And I believe the GM does not get
[21:57] Speaker 4: enough credit, and that's Sean Payton and George Peyton. I
[22:01] Speaker 4: think that George Payton is criminally underrated as a talent evaluator.
[22:07] Speaker 4: I think that George Payton is criminally underrated as a
[22:11] Speaker 4: blend of old school scouting and modernization of process, the
[22:15] Speaker 4: Broncos have one of the most advanced internal scouting systems
[22:19] Speaker 4: in the entire NFL.
[22:21] Speaker 2: An eternal scouting system.
[22:22] Speaker 4: Is where basically it's a living It's a living program
[22:26] Speaker 4: that assembles, gathers, aggregates, and then you can manipulate all
[22:31] Speaker 4: of the data that you've ever gotten through all your
[22:33] Speaker 4: player evaluations. The longer you have it in one building
[22:36] Speaker 4: as the same operation in the same language, the more
[22:40] Speaker 4: data you have to basically bounce other evaluations off of
[22:43] Speaker 4: what becomes your control group. That is, George Payton has
[22:47] Speaker 4: meticulously helped build that with his staff over time and
[22:50] Speaker 4: really champions a data driven approach to looking at picks,
[22:56] Speaker 4: looking at talent, looking at markets, while also really holding
[23:00] Speaker 4: true to his roots. People like working with him. His
[23:02] Speaker 4: scouts are solid and they build well. I like how
[23:06] Speaker 4: these teams are built. His teams are built. It's offensive
[23:09] Speaker 4: line oriented, it's defensive line oriented. It's star players at
[23:13] Speaker 4: premium positions, especially on defense, where you need to have
[23:17] Speaker 4: a high enough floor for all of your variability. That
[23:19] Speaker 4: comes when you've changed coaches over and over again, when
[23:22] Speaker 4: you have a rookie quarterback on offense and then enter
[23:25] Speaker 4: Sean Payton who wants things done a certain way, and
[23:29] Speaker 4: George Peyton does not have the ego to sit there
[23:31] Speaker 4: and say, well, you know, George Peyton is the example
[23:35] Speaker 4: of the overhang GM that when it.
[23:37] Speaker 2: Works, it really, really, really really works.
[23:40] Speaker 4: There's a reason why Minnesota was sort of looking around,
[23:43] Speaker 4: maybe they could pry him loose. He got a contract
[23:45] Speaker 4: extension in Denver. I think he's so solid, and again
[23:49] Speaker 4: I think he is like enormously underrated in this league.
[23:52] Speaker 1: That's fair and not by the Broncos who liked him
[23:55] Speaker 1: enough to keep them when Sean Payton arrived. Despite the
[23:59] Speaker 1: first big thing he did in Denver, was make one
[24:02] Speaker 1: of the worst trades in NFL history, which was for
[24:04] Speaker 1: Russell Wilson and his drafting and clearly how he manages.
[24:08] Speaker 3: The building and you gave great insight to that.
[24:11] Speaker 1: Was a big part of that. I mean his first
[24:12] Speaker 1: draft is Patrick Sirtan and Quinn Minors. That team that too,
[24:15] Speaker 1: all pros.
[24:16] Speaker 4: That team would have been sunk forever if they didn't
[24:20] Speaker 4: pivot off of that entire staff and that trade as
[24:24] Speaker 4: quickly as they did, absorbed the dead money of it,
[24:27] Speaker 4: and then also draft incredibly well behind all of that
[24:30] Speaker 4: chaos and mess to your point, So.
[24:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, Nick Bonito was a second round pick. The offensive
[24:36] Speaker 1: line George Peyton built it. For context that he's been
[24:39] Speaker 1: there since twenty twenty one, and so I totally agree.
[24:43] Speaker 1: He was in my top seventh. I think I had
[24:46] Speaker 1: him six or seventh, but I'm glad you left me
[24:48] Speaker 1: Jason light here, our guy.
[24:50] Speaker 2: I was going to pick him too, who I had fifth.
[24:53] Speaker 1: He just doesn't really miss on first round picks. You
[24:55] Speaker 1: have to go back to Joe Tryon Choyanka. But for
[24:58] Speaker 1: the most part, look, when he had an elite quarterback,
[25:02] Speaker 1: they win a Super Bowl and they're a Super Bowl
[25:04] Speaker 1: contender every year. When you have Baker, you're a very
[25:08] Speaker 1: good team. You're not great and so, but you're close to.
[25:13] Speaker 2: Joe's voice in my head. Greg never a chance.
[25:16] Speaker 1: Well okay, my bed, but I think he just does
[25:20] Speaker 1: a great job of supporting the roster and the coaches,
[25:23] Speaker 1: you know, Ruben Bay in this last year, which I
[25:25] Speaker 1: really like. I tried not to give too much credit
[25:27] Speaker 1: for this last draft because who knows how it'll work,
[25:29] Speaker 1: but Abuca Graham Barton was a great pick, Tristan worse,
[25:31] Speaker 1: and then I just think that the offensive line, they've
[25:34] Speaker 1: been really deliberate and they have a way of doing
[25:39] Speaker 1: things and been very good at that. The defensive line,
[25:41] Speaker 1: they've put a lot into Klijah Kanti and Vitave out Look,
[25:43] Speaker 1: he gets credit for those guys, he's been there forever
[25:46] Speaker 1: not as good, but I think they do build kind
[25:48] Speaker 1: of Seahawks style.
[25:49] Speaker 3: A group doesn't use maybe.
[25:51] Speaker 1: Trades and free agency quite as well or as much
[25:55] Speaker 1: as these top guys, and maybe that's a little bit
[25:57] Speaker 1: of a separation why they haven't been able to get
[25:59] Speaker 1: over the top.
[26:00] Speaker 3: But overall I feel really good with him running my team.
[26:04] Speaker 4: I mean, they did in a big way when Tom
[26:06] Speaker 4: Brady won a Super Bowl that's still there that everybody
[26:09] Speaker 4: still sort of like forgets about because it happened in
[26:11] Speaker 4: the COVID season. But yeah, I think the Jason light
[26:15] Speaker 4: is awesome. I mean, I agree with you in terms
[26:19] Speaker 4: of being like a top six, top seven pick.
[26:21] Speaker 2: Here. People might be surprised to know that he's.
[26:24] Speaker 4: Doing all of this, and they are doing all of
[26:26] Speaker 4: this actually without having a very advanced internal system and
[26:31] Speaker 4: without having a lot of the sort of technologically minded
[26:35] Speaker 4: approaches to this process itself, and a lot of teams
[26:38] Speaker 4: are shifting toward just consistent.
[26:41] Speaker 2: Consistent would be the word that I use.
[26:42] Speaker 4: And he finds they find the guys that they like
[26:46] Speaker 4: and they keep them. And that's part of the reason
[26:48] Speaker 4: why they're not as active in free agency or in
[26:50] Speaker 4: the trade market is because they draft the guys that
[26:53] Speaker 4: they want, they develop them, they extend them, and they
[26:56] Speaker 4: keep them for a long period of time.
[26:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, and look he's done that with this coach too.
[27:01] Speaker 1: Have they under patients slightly? I do think they're a
[27:04] Speaker 1: little better on paper than they've been on the field.
[27:07] Speaker 1: But you can see his work, all right, Who do
[27:09] Speaker 1: you have for number seven?
[27:11] Speaker 2: Number seven?
[27:12] Speaker 4: This was tough for me. I think I'm really I
[27:17] Speaker 4: think I'm gonna go with Nick Cassario here because it's
[27:22] Speaker 4: just a really well built team. It's a really well
[27:24] Speaker 4: built team. The defense really is. It's one of the
[27:28] Speaker 4: most special groups we've seen in this league in a
[27:32] Speaker 4: really long time, and every player compliments each other. Every
[27:36] Speaker 4: position group has a clear identity not only with the
[27:39] Speaker 4: players traits themselves, but also then how those traits can
[27:43] Speaker 4: come to life within the scheme. Every position group fits
[27:46] Speaker 4: in within a larger picture. That's incredibly difficult to do.
[27:49] Speaker 4: I've often knocked someone who will be low on my
[27:51] Speaker 4: list Joe Shane in being able to draft and identify
[27:55] Speaker 4: like blue chip talent, but has no understanding or doesn't
[27:59] Speaker 4: seem to have a clear of like how to put
[28:00] Speaker 4: them all together in a cohesive space. Nick Cassirio does
[28:04] Speaker 4: have that vision. We can knock him, I think a lot.
[28:07] Speaker 4: For the offensive line and how that's been just a
[28:10] Speaker 4: real problem for them over the last couple of years,
[28:12] Speaker 4: but it's also something that they've worked. They've clearly put
[28:15] Speaker 4: in some thought and time to try to to try
[28:19] Speaker 4: to fix and to try to address, and then they
[28:22] Speaker 4: got the quarterback. They did not sway through all the
[28:25] Speaker 4: noise that year when it was Rice Young and c J.
[28:28] Speaker 2: Stroud and Anthony Richardson. CJ.
[28:30] Speaker 4: Stroud was their guy and they stuck with it. And
[28:33] Speaker 4: I like how they also pay their guys, or they're
[28:36] Speaker 4: starting to pay their guys early, which I appreciate. I
[28:38] Speaker 4: just think overall, it's an incredibly solid, well built team.
[28:42] Speaker 4: They've He's got GM candidates right underneath him in Chris
[28:45] Speaker 4: Blanco and James Lipfort who was up for the Minnesota
[28:48] Speaker 4: job this year, Dj Debick as well. These are This
[28:52] Speaker 4: is just a really well built staff. It's a really
[28:54] Speaker 4: well built scouting operation, and the roster is as good
[28:58] Speaker 4: as it gets in this league.
[29:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, if you look at the team that he took over,
[29:04] Speaker 1: I mean they didn't have a first or a second
[29:07] Speaker 1: with the first team he took because Bill O'Brien had
[29:09] Speaker 1: burned those picks. He doesn't get a ton of credit,
[29:12] Speaker 1: but he should for the Deshaun Watson trade. It's not
[29:15] Speaker 1: just that the Browns gave up a good contract, but man,
[29:17] Speaker 1: they extracted a lot of value.
[29:20] Speaker 3: For Deshaun Watson.
[29:21] Speaker 1: And then even though he didn't have a first or
[29:22] Speaker 1: a second, you know, he got in that draft Nico
[29:24] Speaker 1: freaking Collins and you know, America's best backup quarterback trade
[29:28] Speaker 1: Mark Davis Mills, you know, as a third round pick,
[29:30] Speaker 1: which is a nice pick, and then you know you
[29:33] Speaker 1: had Stingley and Petrie in the next draft. You just
[29:35] Speaker 1: keep adding guys to Toe and CJ. And obviously the
[29:37] Speaker 1: Willy Anderson trade has has worked out. Lassiter in Bullock
[29:40] Speaker 1: like really every year they've pushed it forward with more talent.
[29:44] Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned getting the deals done early. The
[29:47] Speaker 1: Daniel Hunter trade, I think has worked really well, and
[29:51] Speaker 1: it's just been a it was a franchise that was
[29:53] Speaker 1: always careening in different directions and you feel, even though
[29:57] Speaker 1: they came from two different kind of trees, a really
[30:00] Speaker 1: good partnership between Casario and Demico Ryan. So that that
[30:05] Speaker 1: was my next pick. I think I'm, you know, doing
[30:07] Speaker 1: the first time I'm going to go off my own board.
[30:09] Speaker 1: It was just like, well this is from here on. Well, no,
[30:12] Speaker 1: I'm not quite at the end of the top my
[30:14] Speaker 1: tier by.
[30:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still in Tier one.
[30:16] Speaker 3: It gets sort of vibe eszy.
[30:18] Speaker 1: I'm past my Tier one at this point, but I'm
[30:22] Speaker 1: gonna take Joe Hortiz just cause I like what's going
[30:25] Speaker 1: on with the Chargers. Like I this is one where
[30:28] Speaker 1: it's less about the resume and more about do I
[30:30] Speaker 1: feel good with him running my organization. I like everything
[30:33] Speaker 1: that they've done. For the most part. With Harbaugh, I
[30:35] Speaker 1: think they have an identity of who they want to be.
[30:38] Speaker 1: I mean, you look at the draft at Joe All
[30:41] Speaker 1: and Lad McConkie. Uh, you know both those picks. Well,
[30:45] Speaker 1: the Maconukie pick was popular, but Joe Alt not necessarily,
[30:48] Speaker 1: and then you're getting guys that can be developed a
[30:50] Speaker 1: little later with tarheeb Still and cam Hart. You bring
[30:54] Speaker 1: in Punaford, who gives you a lot of value, and
[30:56] Speaker 1: then you know he leaves unfortunately, but you still have
[30:59] Speaker 1: Tier Tart there. Like, I do feel like they have
[31:01] Speaker 1: an identity, They have an idea of what they want
[31:03] Speaker 1: to do. The interior offensive line hasn't been great this year,
[31:07] Speaker 1: but I think for what they've done in a two
[31:09] Speaker 1: plus year period, it's obviously in combination with Jim Harbaugh,
[31:13] Speaker 1: I think he's kind of taken the Ravens model, who was, yeah,
[31:16] Speaker 1: you know, obviously the guy or one of the guys
[31:19] Speaker 1: I was thinking of right here, that was the guy
[31:21] Speaker 1: Eric Dicosta was a guy higher on my board.
[31:23] Speaker 3: I'll just give it away. I think they've taken it.
[31:25] Speaker 1: And maybe it's just I haven't seen the like the
[31:27] Speaker 1: bat the lull, But I just like everything they've done,
[31:30] Speaker 1: and I feel good about the Chargers.
[31:32] Speaker 4: They remind me of and it's to your point, Joe Erties,
[31:36] Speaker 4: of this tree like they remind me of the Ravens before.
[31:42] Speaker 2: Eric DaCosta took over.
[31:44] Speaker 4: I guess not in a not necessarily to Ericdcosta. You
[31:47] Speaker 4: could see a little bit of the process shift or
[31:50] Speaker 4: the vibe the truly the vibe shift honestly between you know,
[31:56] Speaker 4: in his time there so far. But they remind me
[31:58] Speaker 4: of those like vintage Ravens teams, of how well built
[32:03] Speaker 4: they were and how they do have a very clear
[32:06] Speaker 4: identity and understanding of what they want to do. One
[32:09] Speaker 4: thing I loved that the Chargers did this year that
[32:11] Speaker 4: I think more teams should do, just selfishly speaking, is
[32:15] Speaker 4: they gave us a lot closer of a look in
[32:17] Speaker 4: terms of their content, at how they draft. They gave
[32:20] Speaker 4: us a much closer look at the types of things
[32:24] Speaker 4: that they do, how they build their boards, how they
[32:29] Speaker 4: talk to each other in the draft room. Like, I
[32:31] Speaker 4: just thought that it was refreshing to see everybody speaking
[32:36] Speaker 4: from the same alphabet. Right, you can really tell how
[32:39] Speaker 4: much editing a team has to do with their in
[32:41] Speaker 4: house content during the draft, before and after and sort
[32:45] Speaker 4: of like relative to how functional that group actually is together.
[32:50] Speaker 4: And it just seems like everybody knows exactly what they're
[32:53] Speaker 4: about internally. And I like that they've built rebuilt this
[32:56] Speaker 4: offensive line. You know, obviously the injuries are a luck.
[32:59] Speaker 4: Things can't really factor in or help. I like what
[33:03] Speaker 4: they've done to build this really multiple he understands like
[33:07] Speaker 4: the old school new school blend of personnel, of trying
[33:13] Speaker 4: to be as multiple as possible with old school prototypical.
[33:18] Speaker 2: Types of players. And I just I really like how
[33:21] Speaker 2: they're built.
[33:22] Speaker 3: Hey, they look good getting off of bus.
[33:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, look good getting off of bus. Filled the doorway.
[33:26] Speaker 3: I want.
[33:27] Speaker 1: I'm starting to hear the grumbling from some of the
[33:30] Speaker 1: teams that we haven't I know, in my head, I
[33:32] Speaker 1: just thought, you know one specifically, will you take.
[33:38] Speaker 3: Brett Beach, Andy Reid off the board?
[33:40] Speaker 4: Brett Beach, that's my next pick. Yeah, Brett Veach. We
[33:43] Speaker 4: talked about this, We did a probably.
[33:45] Speaker 3: Should have taken a math. They probably should have taken
[33:46] Speaker 3: a meth.
[33:47] Speaker 2: That's okay, Well, you'll get to hear it, not me,
[33:49] Speaker 2: you know.
[33:49] Speaker 4: So we we did a really fun episode a couple
[33:54] Speaker 4: of months ago before the draft about which teams we
[33:57] Speaker 4: would trust to draft for us and Brettveach and Andy Reid,
[34:02] Speaker 4: but specifically Brettveach was in, like I think our top five.
[34:06] Speaker 4: He absolutely this team is just trustworthy. That's the best
[34:10] Speaker 4: way I can put it. They're trustworthy in their process,
[34:13] Speaker 4: They're trustworthy in how they build their roster. Yes, it
[34:17] Speaker 4: helps to have Patrick Mahomes, but yes, they also drafted Patrick.
[34:21] Speaker 2: Mahomes when other teams passed on him.
[34:24] Speaker 4: And they've been able to walk this line of keeping
[34:28] Speaker 4: these more antiquated or more and more antiquated stars happy
[34:34] Speaker 4: and contributing while also trying to almost build out from
[34:38] Speaker 4: underneath them a roster that is functional. You can criticize
[34:42] Speaker 4: the receiver the receiver rooms over time. I think a
[34:45] Speaker 4: lot of what we talk about internal things that we
[34:48] Speaker 4: can't possibly see. I'd be curious how much of the
[34:51] Speaker 4: conversation year to year does rely on the ability of
[34:56] Speaker 4: Patrick Mahomes and what he can make happen, and whether
[34:59] Speaker 4: they can capital on him being a market inefficiency in
[35:03] Speaker 4: a good way leading to them maybe being less resource
[35:06] Speaker 4: heavy at certain positions. I don't know that that always
[35:09] Speaker 4: sustains into a player's like late twenties and thirties, so
[35:13] Speaker 4: they might have to readjust how they think about that.
[35:16] Speaker 4: And I think they He works really well with the
[35:18] Speaker 4: head coach. It's just a really solid, solid group. I
[35:22] Speaker 4: love that they trust Steve Spagnolo too. On the other side,
[35:26] Speaker 4: to Steve Spagnolo says these are traits I need and
[35:30] Speaker 4: I want in a player. Brett Veach goes out and
[35:32] Speaker 4: gets them, and that's exactly what a GM coach partnership
[35:35] Speaker 4: is supposed to do.
[35:37] Speaker 2: It just works to me.
[35:39] Speaker 1: Probably underrated them a little bit here. Look, if you
[35:43] Speaker 1: look at the record, we're saying that we don't think that.
[35:45] Speaker 1: We think it's more about the coaching and the quarterback
[35:48] Speaker 1: at homes, which Veach gets credit for. But you know,
[35:52] Speaker 1: we're talking about moving forward. I think the recent drafts,
[35:56] Speaker 1: the recent free agency moves, some of the offensive line decisions,
[35:58] Speaker 1: which they did a great job of fixing after that
[36:01] Speaker 1: Buck Super Bowl, I mean, incredible job fixing. He gets
[36:04] Speaker 1: credit for that, but it's gotten a little stale. The
[36:06] Speaker 1: car Loftis contract and thing has bugged me, but maybe
[36:10] Speaker 1: too much. Maybe this is a little bit of me
[36:13] Speaker 1: and my feelings about have they done enough for Patrick
[36:17] Speaker 1: Mahomes and giving a lot of credit to the coaches.
[36:19] Speaker 1: All right, let's go to DaCosta is gonna be next
[36:22] Speaker 1: on my list. I was thinking about him last night.
[36:24] Speaker 1: I was thinking number we are at number nine here
[36:28] Speaker 1: or number ten. We'll take a break here after DaCosta.
[36:32] Speaker 1: The last three drafts haven't been great. The twenty two draft,
[36:36] Speaker 1: you know, which you know they don't know, was incredible.
[36:39] Speaker 1: You know, you get Linderbaum, you get Kyle Hamilton back
[36:43] Speaker 1: in those drafts. The Derek Henry move was really inspired.
[36:46] Speaker 1: I think the Rokwan Smith trade at the time. They
[36:49] Speaker 1: definitely have a style. They're very good adding around the margins.
[36:52] Speaker 1: I think for like late veterans, a guy like a
[36:56] Speaker 1: Chadobio Wuzier who just like helped him out last year
[36:59] Speaker 1: for very little money. Those type of signings they're fantastic at.
[37:03] Speaker 1: The drafts have been less so similar to the Brett veach,
[37:07] Speaker 1: you know, have they totally maximized Lamar Jackson. Technically that's
[37:11] Speaker 1: an Azzie Newsome draft pick that was like his last draft.
[37:15] Speaker 1: Then again, you know they've gone seventy six and forty
[37:17] Speaker 1: one in the quote unquote DaCosta era, they have won
[37:20] Speaker 1: a lot of games, and I think it's an overall
[37:22] Speaker 1: like sound process. How they do most things, like their drafts,
[37:26] Speaker 1: make sense to me, which is why I'm okay. And
[37:30] Speaker 1: I actually I give him credit for how he handled
[37:32] Speaker 1: the Max Crosby thing.
[37:35] Speaker 3: I'm fine with that.
[37:36] Speaker 1: I don't care how it happened, and then he addressed
[37:39] Speaker 1: it afterwards. Do what you think is right, not what
[37:42] Speaker 1: you think is going to be popular or makes you popular.
[37:45] Speaker 1: So I'm good with DaCosta.
[37:47] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[37:47] Speaker 4: My only thing on all that was if they saw
[37:50] Speaker 4: something that concerned them enough, like absolutely, you should not
[37:53] Speaker 4: move forward if you are that concerned. And when I
[37:56] Speaker 4: was talking to a couple of sources around the league
[37:59] Speaker 4: in the app math of that, it was like, oh, yeah,
[38:02] Speaker 4: that's just they're so so conservative with their medicals. I
[38:05] Speaker 4: mean they always have been. There were stories of them
[38:08] Speaker 4: doing this with with maybe non premiere players in the past.
[38:13] Speaker 4: What I will say is, you don't get to that
[38:16] Speaker 4: agreement and then you don't like have it leaked throughout
[38:20] Speaker 4: the entire stratosphere of the media if there's anything in
[38:25] Speaker 4: your intel gathering that says, hey, we should maybe be
[38:27] Speaker 4: more worried about this, and there should have been something
[38:30] Speaker 4: in their intel gathering because he was actually actively injured
[38:33] Speaker 4: when they made this, not.
[38:35] Speaker 1: As proud as the moment. That's why I need to
[38:38] Speaker 1: give him a good pr pat on the back here.
[38:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's fine.
[38:41] Speaker 4: Yeah, whatever life goes on, these things happen like stuff
[38:45] Speaker 4: like this will happen around the league all the time.
[38:48] Speaker 4: He just drew the straw on it being his moment
[38:52] Speaker 4: to sort of be like the main character in this
[38:53] Speaker 4: in this case.
[38:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I don't mind this pick here.
[38:57] Speaker 3: I could.
[38:57] Speaker 4: I could have debated him maybe being in my tier too,
[39:00] Speaker 4: just because of those draft classes over the last couple
[39:03] Speaker 4: of years. I haven't necessarily loved how they've built their
[39:06] Speaker 4: receivers room either. But it's the same thing we just
[39:09] Speaker 4: talked about with the Chiefs is getting a huge bump
[39:12] Speaker 4: from Lamar Jackson being you know, the quarterback of the
[39:15] Speaker 4: team and making things happen. I really appreciate that they
[39:20] Speaker 4: did not care about Derrick Henry's age.
[39:22] Speaker 2: They thought this is still.
[39:23] Speaker 4: Going to be an enormous addition for us, and it was,
[39:27] Speaker 4: And I like I could see more. I could use
[39:31] Speaker 4: more draft and development on the defensive side as well.
[39:35] Speaker 4: So I think when we've seen holes in their roster
[39:38] Speaker 4: and their team building process, they've been gaping, glaring holes
[39:41] Speaker 4: that have been real problems for the team. What I
[39:44] Speaker 4: would like in a GM is to raise the floor
[39:46] Speaker 4: a little bit, to have enough depth in certain positions
[39:49] Speaker 4: to where it's not quite so rock bottom when it's bad.
[39:53] Speaker 4: But you know, I think they're doing as always, it's
[39:56] Speaker 4: the Ravens. They do a really solid job.
[39:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, and look they when.
[40:02] Speaker 1: I think their floor is reasonably high because they do
[40:05] Speaker 1: have a tendency to win even when Lamar Jackson is
[40:07] Speaker 1: not out there. It's just it's more solid than great.
[40:10] Speaker 1: He's definitely not at Ozzie Newsom's level. We're getting in
[40:12] Speaker 1: the Vibes part of the draft. Let's take a quick break.
[40:14] Speaker 1: We're through the top ten. We will be back in
[40:16] Speaker 1: a minute.
[40:28] Speaker 3: Back on NFL Daily, the episode that.
[40:32] Speaker 1: Jordan is going to get the most feedback from people
[40:36] Speaker 1: around the league not being happy where they got drafted.
[40:40] Speaker 3: I don't want to hear it.
[40:41] Speaker 2: I hide it from you. I shield all of it
[40:43] Speaker 2: from you. Greg.
[40:45] Speaker 1: All you guys are doing is evaluating these incredible professional
[40:49] Speaker 1: young men all day and draftees and ranking them and
[40:53] Speaker 1: shorting them. And that's what you guys in the front
[40:56] Speaker 1: offices have to deal with for one off season. Afternoon,
[41:00] Speaker 1: we are through the top ten. You are up with
[41:03] Speaker 1: the eleventh pick.
[41:04] Speaker 3: Jordan.
[41:04] Speaker 4: Yes, I I'm going John Lynch, Kyle Shanahan combination Dame.
[41:11] Speaker 3: That's who I had no listen.
[41:13] Speaker 4: I know that this last draft was controversial. I understand that.
[41:17] Speaker 4: I also would present the argument that it is really
[41:20] Speaker 4: really hard to draft completely when you are as top
[41:24] Speaker 4: heavy as the forty nine ers still are. Somehow, after
[41:28] Speaker 4: all of these years, you are drafting clearly with one
[41:31] Speaker 4: foot in understanding. You need depth, which means you're not
[41:34] Speaker 4: going to get complete players, which means you're looking for
[41:36] Speaker 4: maybe two traits in one player that compliment like the
[41:40] Speaker 4: starting guy on the roster who's one hundred years old.
[41:43] Speaker 4: And you're also trying to figure out long term projections
[41:47] Speaker 4: in a much more risky way for players who will
[41:50] Speaker 4: eventually take over on a quite uncertain timeline. Because you
[41:54] Speaker 4: do not know when these players will actually finally be done.
[41:57] Speaker 4: We've seen this year over year over year over year.
[42:00] Speaker 2: Oh all that.
[42:01] Speaker 4: Being said, I think they win games. Kyle Shanahan is
[42:05] Speaker 4: a huge X factor here, and he's one of our
[42:07] Speaker 4: combination dynamics that we've decided upon previous to the show,
[42:12] Speaker 4: and I think rightfully so, they work well together, They're
[42:15] Speaker 4: good partners to each other. They win a hell of
[42:17] Speaker 4: a lot of games. They're always competitive, they have an identity.
[42:21] Speaker 4: A lot of that does come from Kyle Shanahan, but
[42:23] Speaker 4: a lot of that infrastructure that's behind the scenes are
[42:27] Speaker 4: really really advanced research and development.
[42:31] Speaker 2: Program.
[42:32] Speaker 4: Also, their scouting department incredibly well respected across the league.
[42:36] Speaker 4: And yes, this draft, we all were raising our eyebrows
[42:41] Speaker 4: at it. But to my first point, it just the
[42:44] Speaker 4: way that they're built right now, and for better or
[42:46] Speaker 4: for worse, the way that they are built right now,
[42:49] Speaker 4: it makes it incredibly difficult to project long term with
[42:53] Speaker 4: your draft picks that are already difficult to project long term.
[42:56] Speaker 4: So I kind of respect that they're at least trying
[42:59] Speaker 4: to go get the grain in some ways.
[43:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, they just gave a promotion to Quescia dofa mensa
[43:04] Speaker 1: who's also part of that front office. They look they've
[43:07] Speaker 1: always drafted pretty against the grain. They're pretty far off
[43:10] Speaker 1: the consensus sport. The drafts have been almost uniformly bad
[43:14] Speaker 1: since one of the worst draft trades of the last decade,
[43:17] Speaker 1: which was the Trey Lance trade. And so this is
[43:20] Speaker 1: we're getting into the portion of the draft where it's
[43:22] Speaker 1: it's hard to separate front office from GM.
[43:24] Speaker 3: Is Kyle just making it look better.
[43:27] Speaker 1: Kyle Shannan the coach, making Kyle Shannon the GM look
[43:30] Speaker 1: better like his dad once did. Actually, the twenty four
[43:32] Speaker 1: draft with Pearsall and then the cornerback Ronaldo Green, Dominic
[43:35] Speaker 1: Pooni at guard, and Mustafa at Savi. That's a good draft.
[43:38] Speaker 1: So it hasn't all been bad. I don't give you
[43:40] Speaker 1: much credit for Purdy because you Pad, you know, he
[43:42] Speaker 1: was the last pick.
[43:42] Speaker 3: Of the draft. Yeah, you did.
[43:43] Speaker 2: That's more there.
[43:44] Speaker 1: That's more coaching and Purty, not drafting. But they have
[43:48] Speaker 1: done great work in trades. I like the Audigie Zua trade.
[43:51] Speaker 1: I like the Trent William I mean, I love love
[43:52] Speaker 1: the Trent William trade is one of the best trades
[43:54] Speaker 1: of the of the century. You got Mike Evans over there,
[43:57] Speaker 1: and so I think they're in a very similar and
[44:00] Speaker 1: I had him right next to Brian Gudacunz as guys
[44:03] Speaker 1: who I think are elevated certainly by the coaching, and
[44:06] Speaker 1: it's kind of tough to separate them too. So that's
[44:09] Speaker 1: my pick who's coming up next. But I think ultimately, yeah,
[44:14] Speaker 1: like record does matter, and there's still those stats that
[44:18] Speaker 1: like Matt Lafleur has the best winning percentage over the
[44:21] Speaker 1: first eight years of any you know, it's like six
[44:23] Speaker 1: fifty still, and like that's all with Brian gudacun so
[44:25] Speaker 1: they have been a pair. The problem with Gutacunts is
[44:29] Speaker 1: he's been better in the middle rounds than he has
[44:31] Speaker 1: in the front, which you don't love like some of
[44:33] Speaker 1: the early picks Jordan Morgan, Lucas van Ness, even Matthew
[44:36] Speaker 1: Gold and Quai Kway Walker like we'll see with Matthew Gold,
[44:39] Speaker 1: like we'll see with some of those. But then again,
[44:41] Speaker 1: you did get Tucker Kraft and Jayden Reid and Romeo
[44:44] Speaker 1: Dobs and Zach Toms like an all pro in the
[44:47] Speaker 1: in the middle rounds. The defense in general, I think
[44:50] Speaker 1: they've had a less consistent idea of how to build
[44:54] Speaker 1: and less successful. And they've put a lot of resources there,
[44:58] Speaker 1: but they've won. They've won a lot, and I just
[45:00] Speaker 1: think the process, like I know what it makes sense
[45:05] Speaker 1: to me. I think it's very traditional. He likes the
[45:07] Speaker 1: big heightweight, speed guys. I kind of know what I'm
[45:11] Speaker 1: getting there with Brian Guda Kuan's Maybe they're not and
[45:14] Speaker 1: maybe you'll get to this given as many resources from
[45:17] Speaker 1: their organization, and so they're playing a little bit with
[45:19] Speaker 1: the hand tied behind their back.
[45:22] Speaker 4: Yes, it's less of a place where you think, Okay,
[45:25] Speaker 4: all of my assistant coaches, because I've been able to,
[45:28] Speaker 4: like you know, hand select and because I can pay
[45:31] Speaker 4: them a lot of money, are going to be hugely
[45:35] Speaker 4: influential on the types of picks. It's actually a building
[45:38] Speaker 4: where you hear that, unlike some of these other pairings
[45:42] Speaker 4: that the head coach maybe does not have as much
[45:44] Speaker 4: say in that entire process. Still a collaboration, but less
[45:48] Speaker 4: so a dynamic where you're thinking about, Okay, it's McVeigh
[45:53] Speaker 4: picks too too out well, you know what I mean,
[45:54] Speaker 4: Like you're just not it's just not that way, right,
[45:57] Speaker 4: And so I think that it's really because I trust,
[46:01] Speaker 4: I trust the Packers. I trust the Packers and Brian
[46:03] Speaker 4: Gutikins to always have really, really, a really solid roster.
[46:07] Speaker 4: I trust them to be able to identify specific positions
[46:10] Speaker 4: tight end as one of them. And this year I appreciated,
[46:13] Speaker 4: or excuse me, this past year, I really appreciated that
[46:16] Speaker 4: they did go out of type a little bit, not
[46:19] Speaker 4: just with the receiver pick, but also with the Parsons trade. Like,
[46:22] Speaker 4: I appreciated that they were a little bit bolder than
[46:25] Speaker 4: we've seen them be in past years, even.
[46:28] Speaker 1: The Banks signing Aaron Banks at guard and the Nate
[46:30] Speaker 1: Hobbs signings which both turned into lot L's right now
[46:34] Speaker 1: Hobbs isn't even on the team anymore. But you're right,
[46:37] Speaker 1: I think they started to kind of get out of
[46:38] Speaker 1: their Ted Thompson just draft and develop.
[46:41] Speaker 3: It's just you can't just do that now.
[46:44] Speaker 1: But I still give them credit for a pick I
[46:46] Speaker 1: liked back on the time at the time, Jordan Love,
[46:49] Speaker 1: which has really set up this entire era. All Right,
[46:52] Speaker 1: you are next with thirteen.
[46:55] Speaker 2: Don't yell at me. I'm going, Well, I'm going Will
[46:59] Speaker 2: McLay and the Dallas Cowboys and the Johns.
[47:02] Speaker 3: Is here yell at you for that.
[47:04] Speaker 1: We are calling it though, Will McClay slash Jones family
[47:08] Speaker 1: because I do feel like they have a part in
[47:10] Speaker 1: all this.
[47:11] Speaker 3: I hear you.
[47:12] Speaker 1: I had him very close. They are only two spots away,
[47:14] Speaker 1: so I had him like fourteenth. You have them thirteen.
[47:17] Speaker 2: They were the.
[47:17] Speaker 4: Top of my second tier, so closer to like eleven
[47:20] Speaker 4: twelve for meific and specific specifically Will McLay because you
[47:27] Speaker 4: said it right in your open here. To do that
[47:30] Speaker 4: job with the Jones family also in the mix is
[47:34] Speaker 4: like one of the most has got to be one
[47:36] Speaker 4: of the most complicated things to do in the NFL,
[47:40] Speaker 4: and he's done it really, really well.
[47:42] Speaker 2: I trust his eye for talent.
[47:43] Speaker 4: I trust the way that they have their analytics and
[47:47] Speaker 4: technology infrastructure behind all of it. I trust the prototypes
[47:52] Speaker 4: and the traits that they're looking for. I trust the
[47:54] Speaker 4: vision of the overall team belt. I would argue that
[47:58] Speaker 4: often coaching has been what is held this roster back.
[48:01] Speaker 4: And I would also argue that, yes, we saw the
[48:04] Speaker 4: defense be a total disaster at the start of last
[48:06] Speaker 4: season for Matt eberflu under Matt Eberflus, but changing the
[48:11] Speaker 4: coach and also moving into a much more aggressive approach
[48:15] Speaker 4: with how they were going to build following the trade
[48:19] Speaker 4: of Micaeh Parsons, which you could argue was ownership driven,
[48:22] Speaker 4: not general manager driven. So separating will McClay from that, specifically,
[48:26] Speaker 4: Will McClay has to figure out a way to build
[48:28] Speaker 4: the pieces back together and put everything back together. And
[48:31] Speaker 4: I think not just with the Quinn Williams move, but
[48:33] Speaker 4: also with just some of the little tweaks and adjustments
[48:36] Speaker 4: they made through the entirety of that defense. It's just
[48:41] Speaker 4: to me, really shows problem solving in real time in
[48:45] Speaker 4: an awesome way.
[48:46] Speaker 2: Their scouts are extremely well respected.
[48:48] Speaker 4: I know I've said that about a few of these
[48:50] Speaker 4: top teams around the league. They keep their scouts, which
[48:53] Speaker 4: is also really telling to me. Their scouts aren't trying
[48:55] Speaker 4: to jump ship every couple of years. And also they
[48:59] Speaker 4: know how to draft offensive linemen. That is so huge
[49:02] Speaker 4: to me. They just know what they're looking for an
[49:05] Speaker 4: offensive lineman and it's usually a guy named Tyler.
[49:08] Speaker 2: But they know what they're doing. They have an identity.
[49:11] Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
[49:13] Speaker 3: I just want to see if that keeps up.
[49:15] Speaker 1: I mean, they are the best of the twenty first
[49:18] Speaker 1: century at that you know, until the last few years.
[49:22] Speaker 1: Like we'll see how the Tyler Booker and Guitten picks
[49:25] Speaker 1: turn out long term. I don't think they feel totally
[49:27] Speaker 1: comfortable there. I hated the Parsons trade. I hated the
[49:30] Speaker 1: Yosa Odigizua trade, the Gary trade.
[49:32] Speaker 3: I didn't.
[49:33] Speaker 1: It was like, Okay, it's very tough to separate these two,
[49:36] Speaker 1: which is why I think they're in the middle, because
[49:38] Speaker 1: I hear you that McLay is making up for kind
[49:42] Speaker 1: of sometimes the mess that the contract negotiators make. The
[49:46] Speaker 1: George Pickens trade was great, ultimately, when you I feel
[49:50] Speaker 1: like they're often ping ponging back and forth, you're not
[49:52] Speaker 1: exactly sure what the overall plan is. And ultimately, if
[49:55] Speaker 1: you're the Jones family specifically, you had Tony Romo and
[49:59] Speaker 1: Dak Prescott served into your lap two of the best
[50:04] Speaker 1: quarterbacks literally of all time that were not taken in
[50:08] Speaker 1: the first three rounds. And I don't think you've really
[50:11] Speaker 1: maximized how incredible it was that you fell into those
[50:14] Speaker 1: guys because you wanted Paxton Lynch, not Dak, and Tony
[50:18] Speaker 1: Romo is just like an undrafted guy that Parcels brings
[50:21] Speaker 1: in them, you know, and you didn't really maximize either
[50:24] Speaker 1: of those windows, and I think they've helped you prop
[50:28] Speaker 1: them up. And yet I had him right around here.
[50:32] Speaker 1: I have Vrabel and Elliot Wolf next here at fourteen.
[50:37] Speaker 3: Elliot Wolf said this.
[50:38] Speaker 1: May not be a sustainable model this week, like how
[50:40] Speaker 1: they've gone about their first years, which is a hilarious
[50:43] Speaker 1: thing for a GM to say. That said, they've already
[50:46] Speaker 1: delivered like a super Bowl here the only Belichick starter's
[50:49] Speaker 1: Super Bowl appearance. Sorry, the only Belichick starters left there.
[50:53] Speaker 1: Mike go Wenu who just took a huge pay cut,
[50:55] Speaker 1: Hunter Henry, Christian Barmore, Christian Gonzales, and Marcus Jones.
[50:59] Speaker 3: Free agency last year was great. This year looks fun.
[51:03] Speaker 1: The first draft was a fiasco after Drake May the
[51:06] Speaker 1: second one, eh, like Rabel doesn't have a long history
[51:11] Speaker 1: of collaborating well, like he's gotten into fights. But they
[51:14] Speaker 1: are going to be a team that attacks problems. I
[51:16] Speaker 1: think if we're here in the middle of this draft,
[51:21] Speaker 1: here's a team that's that's going for it and using
[51:24] Speaker 1: the resources they were given and it's worked really well
[51:27] Speaker 1: so far, so to me, I feel like they shouldn't
[51:30] Speaker 1: go it far fall any further.
[51:31] Speaker 4: Yeah, go back in for the listeners, so I don't
[51:34] Speaker 4: ramble egregiously during a shorter segment. I don't want to
[51:39] Speaker 4: go back over all the points we made in our
[51:42] Speaker 4: recent episode about the AJ Brown trade. But it goes
[51:47] Speaker 4: to be said that when you can't we are making
[51:50] Speaker 4: up for a lack of something in one phase of
[51:53] Speaker 4: your team build. In this case, their draft classes, especially
[51:56] Speaker 4: those Belichick ones they had to make up for, and
[51:58] Speaker 4: then some so so draft class over the last couple
[52:00] Speaker 4: of years too. When you're making up for a dearth there,
[52:05] Speaker 4: you have to overspend elsewhere. And I think strategically they've
[52:07] Speaker 4: done a good job of understanding where they need to
[52:11] Speaker 4: make up for things, and then that will have to flip.
[52:13] Speaker 4: Eventually they'll have to start really drafting.
[52:15] Speaker 1: Well, yeah too, Wolf's point. They will have to get
[52:18] Speaker 1: a more sustainable model. But you're also living here in
[52:21] Speaker 1: the present where you have a young elite quarterback on
[52:23] Speaker 1: a rookie contract trying to take advantage of it. You
[52:26] Speaker 1: have number fifteen.
[52:28] Speaker 4: I'm going Dan Morgan here, okay, And here's the thing
[52:32] Speaker 4: you forgot about him in your initial email.
[52:35] Speaker 1: I sent an email with all the candidates, and I
[52:39] Speaker 1: think I wrote thirty one different GMS and forgot Dan Morgan.
[52:43] Speaker 3: That's on me. I have an NFL Daily Guest.
[52:47] Speaker 2: Yes, a couple of these guys have been in a
[52:49] Speaker 2: full daily guest. That's pretty cool.
[52:50] Speaker 4: The thing that I have come to understand about Dan Morgan,
[52:55] Speaker 4: I did not know much about him when he was
[52:57] Speaker 4: the assistant GM with under Scott Fitter. Those were some
[53:02] Speaker 4: bad rosters, and then the Matt Rule era prior to
[53:04] Speaker 4: that just a disaster in terms of talent relative to
[53:09] Speaker 4: the competitiness of the rest of the league.
[53:11] Speaker 2: Just really bad.
[53:12] Speaker 4: Right, So you're kind of similar to the Wolf Frable combination.
[53:16] Speaker 4: You're talking about making up for gap years essentially in
[53:20] Speaker 4: your entire depth chart and in your entire roster build,
[53:25] Speaker 4: and also making up for the lack of continuity in
[53:28] Speaker 4: that building over time, where when Ron Rivera and Marty
[53:33] Speaker 4: Hernie left, you're not only behind in terms of now
[53:36] Speaker 4: you're changing out your entire coaching and scouting staff, and
[53:39] Speaker 4: scouting staffs take a while to build out into continuity.
[53:43] Speaker 4: You're also making up for the fact that they were
[53:46] Speaker 4: so behind in terms of the technology they were using,
[53:50] Speaker 4: in terms of the internal scouting databases and systems that
[53:53] Speaker 4: they were using in terms of understanding shifts and markets
[53:57] Speaker 4: in the league itself and trying to they had to
[54:00] Speaker 4: start so much further from square one than I think
[54:03] Speaker 4: a lot of people realize. And that's what Dan Morgan
[54:06] Speaker 4: ultimately said about doing when he finally took over. And
[54:10] Speaker 4: what I liked about what he did was he did
[54:13] Speaker 4: it without an ego, meaning he brought in brand Tillis,
[54:17] Speaker 4: they have Dave you know, they hired Dave Canalis, and
[54:19] Speaker 4: then they brought in Eric Eager, who was formerly a
[54:22] Speaker 4: Pro Football focus back in its glory days. And it's
[54:27] Speaker 4: all these people that are filling gaps that Dan Morgan
[54:30] Speaker 4: is saying, I don't know how to do this. It's
[54:31] Speaker 4: not my forte. I need to build a team where
[54:34] Speaker 4: people who do understand how to build out this analytical infrastructure,
[54:38] Speaker 4: how to build out like the depth chart of the
[54:41] Speaker 4: front office is going to be super important. Since then,
[54:45] Speaker 4: I've come to appreciate his just his flat out talent identification.
[54:49] Speaker 4: I think he's got an eye for it. I think
[54:51] Speaker 4: he's growing up quote unquote. I don't mean to sound
[54:53] Speaker 4: patronizing there because he's he's an adult, but I think
[54:56] Speaker 4: he's growing up in the job in a really cool
[54:58] Speaker 4: way where he is a total collaborator, but you can
[55:01] Speaker 4: still see his identity points on the team they're building.
[55:04] Speaker 4: And I think the Panthers year over year have gotten
[55:07] Speaker 4: so much more of a turned so much more into
[55:10] Speaker 4: a complete team, pivoted into capitalizing where they've needed to
[55:14] Speaker 4: capitalize financially, but then drafting well relatively well behind it
[55:19] Speaker 4: could still see this receiver's room come together a little
[55:21] Speaker 4: bit better. But I've really appreciated what they've done.
[55:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, I had him a little lower, a handful of
[55:27] Speaker 1: spots lower. They were still outscored by seventy points this
[55:30] Speaker 1: last year, and they're entering year three. They're just more
[55:33] Speaker 1: like I got to see it. Like their first draft
[55:34] Speaker 1: was not good. It was Lagett and Jonathan Brooks, which
[55:37] Speaker 1: was a gamble at the time that didn't make a
[55:39] Speaker 1: lot of sense and hasn't worked out because of injury.
[55:41] Speaker 1: But that was the reason why people were surprised that
[55:44] Speaker 1: they took him. But Mike Mike Jackson, great move, McMillan,
[55:47] Speaker 1: great move to me. And I love the free agent
[55:50] Speaker 1: signings that they made this offseasons. To me, it's just like,
[55:52] Speaker 1: let's see how this year goes and I'll evaluate them.
[55:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet I'm betting on upside for that, Yeah,
[55:57] Speaker 2: for sure.
[55:58] Speaker 1: And I think that's where it's like, it's not just
[56:00] Speaker 1: on the record, it's who we'd be comfortable and that's
[56:03] Speaker 1: why I process for you. I think makes a lot
[56:06] Speaker 1: of sense you'd have him here. I like Omar Khan,
[56:08] Speaker 1: another NFL Daily guest. He was someone who landed higher
[56:11] Speaker 1: on this list. He's the Steelers GM than I expected.
[56:14] Speaker 1: I actually had him I think eleventh on my board
[56:17] Speaker 1: and pretty good first two drafts with Joey Porter and
[56:21] Speaker 1: Fatanu and Zach Fraser, the center, Darnagh Washington, Nick Herbig,
[56:26] Speaker 1: Mason McCormick. Those are a lot of hits for a
[56:28] Speaker 1: couple drafts. Up front, the DK and Pittman trades. He
[56:32] Speaker 1: inherited this great defensive line. The secondary is all his
[56:36] Speaker 1: and we'll kind of see on that, but you know
[56:38] Speaker 1: it's Ramsey and Brisker and Jamel Dean. I bumped up
[56:42] Speaker 1: maybe a few spots just because the Nick Herbig and
[56:44] Speaker 1: Darnah Washington extensions over the last couple of days or
[56:46] Speaker 1: two of the most team friendly, forward thinking best deals
[56:49] Speaker 1: I've seen. He might be even higher if it wasn't
[56:52] Speaker 1: for the quarterback situation, which you know they bear some
[56:55] Speaker 1: responsibility with. I know the coaching is part of that,
[56:57] Speaker 1: but overall, I actually think he's done an underrated job
[57:01] Speaker 1: since he took over in Pittsburgh.
[57:03] Speaker 4: This is actually the reason, first of all, I would
[57:05] Speaker 4: have put him higher, and I would have also picked
[57:08] Speaker 4: him over my pick of Dan Morgan had they not
[57:12] Speaker 4: been just sort of like dragged around in kind of
[57:17] Speaker 4: an embarrassing way by their quarterback situation over the last It's.
[57:21] Speaker 3: A black guy.
[57:21] Speaker 1: It's a black mark on everything, which is why I
[57:24] Speaker 1: think he falls the sixteen. Yeah, if not for a
[57:26] Speaker 1: pretty good resume otherwise.
[57:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's like I think that the Steelers, I
[57:31] Speaker 4: think they're super well built in most areas, but it's
[57:35] Speaker 4: so obvious to everybody, including themselves, that they are a
[57:39] Speaker 4: quarterback away but not just but not the one that
[57:42] Speaker 4: they keep chasing after, you know, not Rogers, not the
[57:46] Speaker 4: one that they keep letting just like string them along.
[57:48] Speaker 4: And frankly, it's a it is an organization with such
[57:51] Speaker 4: history and truly depth in its front office. He's got
[57:55] Speaker 4: Andy Wheedel on his staff, who's awesome, like they they
[57:58] Speaker 4: are so and yet they just let this sort of
[58:02] Speaker 4: happen to them, and it just to me.
[58:04] Speaker 2: It is not It doesn't match up.
[58:08] Speaker 4: The vibes do not match up in what I feel
[58:10] Speaker 4: like they could the potential they could reach, versus the
[58:13] Speaker 4: one they're willing to settle for. So that's where I'm
[58:15] Speaker 4: That's where I'm like, you know, I'm on the phone
[58:18] Speaker 4: talking to talking to one of my good girlfriends about
[58:21] Speaker 4: her ex and how not to go back to them.
[58:23] Speaker 4: You know what I mean, Like you have so much
[58:24] Speaker 4: more potential, girl, you got this?
[58:26] Speaker 3: You know?
[58:27] Speaker 1: No, they they win now team They're pretty well built
[58:31] Speaker 1: up front, I think, on both sides of the line
[58:33] Speaker 1: of the ball, which is a great place to start.
[58:36] Speaker 1: And yet I have a feeling you're gonna go This
[58:39] Speaker 1: is my guest with another NFL Daily guest here at
[58:42] Speaker 1: number seventeen.
[58:43] Speaker 3: That could be wrong.
[58:46] Speaker 4: This is This one was tough for me because I
[58:50] Speaker 4: think you would have thought that I was going to
[58:52] Speaker 4: go James Gladstone here. No, oh really, because I'm going
[58:56] Speaker 4: to go Braindon Bean.
[58:57] Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that is an NFL Daily guest, but also
[59:00] Speaker 1: not the one I was thinking of.
[59:01] Speaker 2: Interesting, who did you think I was going to go for?
[59:03] Speaker 1: Well, we'll have to see if I take him next.
[59:06] Speaker 3: No, I probably will, I'll actually wait.
[59:08] Speaker 2: Damn it, No, that was actually my next time my list.
[59:11] Speaker 2: I scrolled down. No that I scrolled down too far.
[59:14] Speaker 3: I got him, I got him, damn it. No, No,
[59:17] Speaker 3: it's fine.
[59:18] Speaker 1: We could do them as a combination Brandon Bean and
[59:20] Speaker 1: Ryan Poles, Ben slash bed to Johnson seventeen and eighteen
[59:23] Speaker 1: and whatever order you want.
[59:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, okay, so yeah, I think right, So.
[59:28] Speaker 3: That's not true because I don't want Brandon Bean.
[59:29] Speaker 4: Well, I think Ryan Poles should be well, it's still
[59:31] Speaker 4: my pick, and I think Brandon, I think Ryan Poles
[59:33] Speaker 4: should be here at what's seventeen?
[59:37] Speaker 3: Eric wrote, Brandon Bean down after you drafted.
[59:40] Speaker 2: You know what, you know what?
[59:40] Speaker 4: This is a good lesson for I think it's a
[59:42] Speaker 4: really good lesson for you not interrupting me before the
[59:46] Speaker 4: point has has finished, because if not for your interjection,
[59:49] Speaker 4: I never would have realized that I totally forgot Ryan Poles.
[59:53] Speaker 4: My point was not finished. So now I still have
[59:55] Speaker 4: I'm on the clock still, so now I'm going to
[59:57] Speaker 4: draft Ryan Poles and Ben Johnson.
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: So I think, to me, Ben Johnson.
[1:00:03] Speaker 4: Gets a lot of the pop here as well, And
[1:00:06] Speaker 4: this is one of those where I was emailing back
[1:00:07] Speaker 4: and forth with you last night about making sure that
[1:00:11] Speaker 4: those two were kind of ruled as a combination. I
[1:00:13] Speaker 4: think that Ryan Poles handled the entrance of Ben Johnson
[1:00:18] Speaker 4: into their atmosphere incredibly well, like I think that he
[1:00:22] Speaker 4: is George Payton level handling this well in terms of
[1:00:27] Speaker 4: the ability and in some cases probably the ego, and
[1:00:31] Speaker 4: then also the vision of the head coach in being
[1:00:37] Speaker 4: an overhang GM who is understanding, truly understanding, not doing
[1:00:41] Speaker 4: the politicking, not doing the game of throne stuff, truly
[1:00:44] Speaker 4: understanding the coach's vision and then setting about applying for it.
[1:00:48] Speaker 4: I like the aggressiveness that they went about resetting their
[1:00:52] Speaker 4: offensive line. I like the moves that they made at receiver,
[1:00:55] Speaker 4: especially in the draft. They're really going to continue to
[1:01:00] Speaker 4: plenish the tight end position year over year, and I
[1:01:03] Speaker 4: trust that they can identify guys in the secondary too.
[1:01:07] Speaker 4: The big hole for this team has been pass rush.
[1:01:10] Speaker 4: But we sort of talked about this even when you
[1:01:12] Speaker 4: know Dennis Allen first got there, even in the late
[1:01:15] Speaker 4: stages of Eberflus over there. It just has been a
[1:01:18] Speaker 4: team that's really seemed more comfortable, built to cover first
[1:01:22] Speaker 4: and to cover the rush. So I'm interested to see
[1:01:25] Speaker 4: how they handle it. They are clearly waiting to see
[1:01:27] Speaker 4: whether a couple of their guys take another step forward
[1:01:30] Speaker 4: or that's been the company line out.
[1:01:31] Speaker 2: Of that building. But I like what they've built.
[1:01:34] Speaker 4: I like that they're buying in believing in the quarterback,
[1:01:38] Speaker 4: that they're trusting what they have, they're building around him,
[1:01:41] Speaker 4: They're raising their floor in every single way, and I
[1:01:43] Speaker 4: like the collaboration between coach and NGM.
[1:01:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, he gets a big bump from Ben Johnson because
[1:01:50] Speaker 1: it's looked better in terms of the decision making and
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: in terms of maximizing your offensive talent. Poles deserve some credit.
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: Also had a lot of fortune for getting Caleb Williams
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: in the first place. That trade, it was a great trade,
[1:02:01] Speaker 1: the DJ more trade. But you know, lucky that that
[1:02:04] Speaker 1: you got the number one overall pick. But look that
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: pick got you Ben Johnson, So you get a little
[1:02:08] Speaker 1: bit of credit for that. But ultimately twenty six and
[1:02:10] Speaker 1: forty two, if we're if we're looking at records since
[1:02:12] Speaker 1: Poles took over, but some good trades Jonah Jackson sweat
[1:02:16] Speaker 1: Montes sweat. The Joe Toney trade was fantastic. There are
[1:02:19] Speaker 1: a lot of good moves Brad Burry and Devin Bush
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: this offseason. I like, you know, he's gotten very heavy
[1:02:25] Speaker 1: in the secondary Ryan Poles over the years. I won't
[1:02:27] Speaker 1: take Brandon Bean. I guess I might as well stick
[1:02:29] Speaker 1: to my my board. Plus, I can tell from behind
[1:02:32] Speaker 1: the glass Eric doesn't want Brandon Bean to get trafted
[1:02:34] Speaker 1: this high. Anyways, I'll go Adam Peters here. This is
[1:02:39] Speaker 1: where I mean, we are deep into the vibes, like
[1:02:44] Speaker 1: luck and vibes, because I don't think the record is great.
[1:02:49] Speaker 1: He's coming from San Francisco. He presents well. He had
[1:02:53] Speaker 1: three second round picks, and to you know, he had
[1:02:57] Speaker 1: well five picks between the second and third rounds his
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: first draft, and those picks Jerry Newton and Mike Sandrastill,
[1:03:03] Speaker 1: Ben Sinnett, Brandon Coleman, Luke McCaffrey. That does not look
[1:03:07] Speaker 1: like what you want to start out your process. Obviously,
[1:03:09] Speaker 1: you made a lot of good moves to have that
[1:03:13] Speaker 1: great first season. You were really aggressive trading picks away,
[1:03:16] Speaker 1: which is forty nine ers style to get Larrymie Tunsel.
[1:03:19] Speaker 1: Free agency was younger and looks more promising this year.
[1:03:23] Speaker 1: I just want to see it out and I have
[1:03:25] Speaker 1: sort of a vague belief in him, kind of like
[1:03:28] Speaker 1: you do in Dan Morgan that like, okay, if it
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: was I feel like this will work out better long term.
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: Yeah. I like the pick.
[1:03:36] Speaker 4: I mean maybe a little high based on relative to
[1:03:40] Speaker 4: that first draft class was just that set I mean
[1:03:43] Speaker 4: truly that set them back. But this offseason was really
[1:03:46] Speaker 4: strong for them. I think that they didn't panic on
[1:03:49] Speaker 4: certain players. You know that there were guys who were
[1:03:52] Speaker 4: available that maybe would not have been the right fit,
[1:03:54] Speaker 4: whether it was by age especially, you know, like at receiver,
[1:03:58] Speaker 4: you know, huge, just got the sense that they were
[1:04:02] Speaker 4: being a little bit more aggressive in certain spots but
[1:04:04] Speaker 4: being taking a little bit more of a patient approach
[1:04:06] Speaker 4: in others.
[1:04:07] Speaker 2: It's a huge season for them.
[1:04:09] Speaker 4: It's a huge sort of prove it year for a
[1:04:12] Speaker 4: lot of people over in that building. And I think
[1:04:15] Speaker 4: that Adam Peters, for his part, has done enough to
[1:04:18] Speaker 4: sort of have the type of offseason that maybe sets
[1:04:22] Speaker 4: the table a little bit cleaner for the rest of them.
[1:04:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, they went for it was an older roster. They
[1:04:28] Speaker 1: kind of did what they could best to win. We'll
[1:04:32] Speaker 1: see if it works out long term. He's probably well,
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: this is unfair, but everyone is in like a potential
[1:04:39] Speaker 1: contract year and has job security questions when you're running
[1:04:41] Speaker 1: a front office. But I do feel like he might
[1:04:43] Speaker 1: be the first one we've even taken where it's like, man,
[1:04:45] Speaker 1: if this season went super sideways, you never know it
[1:04:48] Speaker 1: is new ownership there. But that was our pick at
[1:04:51] Speaker 1: number eighteen. Polls was at seventeen, it was your Adam Peters,
[1:04:56] Speaker 1: yes at eighteen, and you've got nineteen.
[1:05:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a little Peter's is a little high
[1:05:03] Speaker 2: to me. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go James Gladstone
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: here at what is it nineteen?
[1:05:10] Speaker 3: Oh so Bean who almost got taken by you before
[1:05:13] Speaker 3: now is well, I was.
[1:05:14] Speaker 2: Not in a tier.
[1:05:15] Speaker 4: I was like, not in a teer. You have to
[1:05:17] Speaker 4: see my notes. My notes are kind of a mess
[1:05:19] Speaker 4: right now. But yeah, I'm gonna go James Gladstone. This
[1:05:25] Speaker 4: is I admit one er bias coming through because I
[1:05:28] Speaker 4: know how he works and I understand his process because
[1:05:31] Speaker 4: of the year that I spent with the Rams scouting
[1:05:33] Speaker 4: department when he was their director of pro Scouting or
[1:05:37] Speaker 4: director of Scouting and Scouting strategy, and so I just
[1:05:40] Speaker 4: I understand the way that he's trying to go about
[1:05:44] Speaker 4: doing this. I could do maybe without some of the
[1:05:51] Speaker 4: the commentary from that building, you know, I say this
[1:05:55] Speaker 4: respectfully knowing that you know, we have a lot of
[1:05:58] Speaker 4: listeners over there, but I all so say that, like
[1:06:02] Speaker 4: they won a lot of games in their first year
[1:06:05] Speaker 4: altogether as a staff, they started rebuilding in totality a
[1:06:10] Speaker 4: ton of the processes that were there in place before,
[1:06:13] Speaker 4: and I don't think that that was any small feat
[1:06:16] Speaker 4: to do that. They're resetting and rebuilding out part of
[1:06:19] Speaker 4: the scouting staff as well. They kept on some of
[1:06:21] Speaker 4: the ones that were there last year that was not
[1:06:23] Speaker 4: going to be sort of a long term thing for
[1:06:26] Speaker 4: them to do.
[1:06:27] Speaker 2: Didn't really have a.
[1:06:29] Speaker 4: Full draft draft, off season, draft class when he first
[1:06:34] Speaker 4: came on. So I think relative to the timeline of everything,
[1:06:38] Speaker 4: that whole group did very very well. I think they
[1:06:41] Speaker 4: think about things in an extremely modern way, and perhaps
[1:06:45] Speaker 4: the messaging and the way they explain it. It's also
[1:06:51] Speaker 4: hard being clipped out, I think in the social media era.
[1:06:55] Speaker 4: I think if people were going to go listen to
[1:06:56] Speaker 4: them speak in a meeting, it would make a lot
[1:06:58] Speaker 4: more sense than maybe what we're seeing x Eternally, I
[1:07:01] Speaker 4: like the way they think about football. I appreciate the
[1:07:04] Speaker 4: way that they think about football, and that he thinks
[1:07:06] Speaker 4: about football and about building rosters and about building complete
[1:07:10] Speaker 4: rosters and working with the coach specifically. I think that
[1:07:13] Speaker 4: is a duo that works as well together as any
[1:07:15] Speaker 4: in the league. And himself and Liam Cohen, And I'm
[1:07:19] Speaker 4: drafting off of potential here because I believe in that guy,
[1:07:22] Speaker 4: and I believe in what they're doing over there, and
[1:07:24] Speaker 4: I will continue to pound that drum until they prove
[1:07:27] Speaker 4: me otherwise.
[1:07:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, basically the same area I had him, Adam like
[1:07:31] Speaker 1: one more pick further. They get a little wild, you
[1:07:34] Speaker 1: got you got to be willing to get a little
[1:07:35] Speaker 1: wild with them. But I like the Jacoby Meyer trade.
[1:07:37] Speaker 1: I like the cole Van Lannon extension. Letting go of
[1:07:40] Speaker 1: Devin Lloyd hurt my feelings.
[1:07:43] Speaker 2: Look, they Dan Morgan got him, and you still forgot
[1:07:45] Speaker 2: Dan Morgan.
[1:07:47] Speaker 1: They they they spent a lot on Patrick McCarry and
[1:07:50] Speaker 1: Robert Hainsey on the offensive line, and it was like eh.
[1:07:53] Speaker 1: And then Gladstone, unlike most of the GMS, gets no
[1:07:56] Speaker 1: credit for Liam Cohen because Liam Cohen was hired before him,
[1:07:59] Speaker 1: and I do think kind similar to we were talking
[1:08:00] Speaker 1: about with the forty nine Ers and Packers, like how
[1:08:02] Speaker 1: much is coaching, how much is front office?
[1:08:04] Speaker 3: It's so early, we don't really know.
[1:08:06] Speaker 1: One guy who's had the longest resume possible to just
[1:08:09] Speaker 1: show his work and you probably thought would go even further.
[1:08:14] Speaker 1: I just had to think about the talent that Chris
[1:08:16] Speaker 1: Ballards had over em and not let him go any further.
[1:08:20] Speaker 1: Because the record isn't great, and record is a GM
[1:08:23] Speaker 1: stat it's seventy and seventy eight, one and two in
[1:08:25] Speaker 1: the playoffs on a long timeline, and yet like the
[1:08:29] Speaker 1: offensive line drafting and the offensive line succession plan, like
[1:08:34] Speaker 1: Chef's Kiss, the defense has often been pretty bad, and
[1:08:39] Speaker 1: they've invested a lot into the defensive line without enough return.
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: Although the Buckner trade and who am I forgetting Grover
[1:08:47] Speaker 1: Stewart like moves were really good. They've been better about
[1:08:50] Speaker 1: getting veterans in there versus drafting.
[1:08:52] Speaker 3: The Sauce trade was wild.
[1:08:53] Speaker 1: It's a little crazy on defense, but for the most part,
[1:08:56] Speaker 1: I think they've had a good infrastructure, which that's why
[1:08:58] Speaker 1: they were able to succeed so much with even a
[1:09:01] Speaker 1: Daniel Jones level quarterback last year. And I think if
[1:09:04] Speaker 1: you look at their rosters over a long enough timeline,
[1:09:06] Speaker 1: they've been solid, they have been great, and that's why
[1:09:09] Speaker 1: he's getting drafted twentieth. But I don't think he's quite
[1:09:11] Speaker 1: as bad as like angry Colts fans think either.
[1:09:14] Speaker 4: I know, and I I gotta be honest, if you
[1:09:18] Speaker 4: just took away the quarterback stuff, which is big, that's
[1:09:21] Speaker 4: you have to factor that in. That's no, that's no excuse.
[1:09:24] Speaker 4: But if you took away the quarterback stuff over the years,
[1:09:27] Speaker 4: you could look at most position groups on his rosters
[1:09:29] Speaker 4: and be like, yeah, okay.
[1:09:32] Speaker 1: At one point he was getting ranked so high in
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: my old like GM rankings and stuff.
[1:09:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think it because of that.
[1:09:39] Speaker 4: I think it's a return maybe a little bit more
[1:09:41] Speaker 4: back to that now that and and you know, rest
[1:09:45] Speaker 4: in peace to Jim Mersay, but a lot of those
[1:09:47] Speaker 4: decisions were Jim Mersey directly meddling with the process as well,
[1:09:52] Speaker 4: inclusive to you know, hiring Jeff Saturday for example, and
[1:09:56] Speaker 4: then the Anthony Richardson selection and all of these types
[1:09:59] Speaker 4: of things. I think that in terms of their the
[1:10:03] Speaker 4: depth of their scouting and assistant GM staff and their
[1:10:06] Speaker 4: personnel staff.
[1:10:07] Speaker 2: It's one of the best in the league.
[1:10:08] Speaker 4: They're almost too top heavy, similar to the Eagles, where
[1:10:13] Speaker 4: there's just so many titles now because you can't promote
[1:10:16] Speaker 4: people any higher.
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: Like they just they're so top heavy.
[1:10:19] Speaker 4: And because they've had this continuity people like working for
[1:10:23] Speaker 4: Chris Ballard, they don't lose a lot of people year
[1:10:26] Speaker 4: over year, and they're really good balance of old school
[1:10:30] Speaker 4: scouting and new technology and they kind of just let
[1:10:32] Speaker 4: people be who they are in that process.
[1:10:35] Speaker 2: The example I.
[1:10:36] Speaker 4: Could give some of the reporting I did this last
[1:10:38] Speaker 4: year is like, yeah, they do have one of the
[1:10:40] Speaker 4: best internal scouting system programs in the NFL.
[1:10:43] Speaker 2: Also, just because they like it.
[1:10:45] Speaker 4: They're also one of the teams that still has the
[1:10:48] Speaker 4: twenty foot tall room twenty foot wall room covered in
[1:10:52] Speaker 4: magnets and player profiles that they move around with a
[1:10:55] Speaker 4: giant library ladder. So like, just because they like it,
[1:10:58] Speaker 4: and it's like it's so to me, they just blend
[1:11:00] Speaker 4: a lot of that new school old school and I
[1:11:02] Speaker 4: think they're walking an interesting line there. Got to get
[1:11:05] Speaker 4: the quarterback right right.
[1:11:08] Speaker 1: He needs to win this year. He is very much
[1:11:10] Speaker 1: on the hot seat. After a decade there in Indianapolis.
[1:11:13] Speaker 1: Let's take one more break and we will wrap up
[1:11:17] Speaker 1: with the gms that will be the maddest.
[1:11:19] Speaker 3: After this proceedings back on NFL Daily. It's a little freaky, Jordan.
[1:11:32] Speaker 1: These first twenty names thaken where my first twenty and
[1:11:36] Speaker 1: then you know we've been of like mine, most of
[1:11:38] Speaker 1: these picks have been similar, at least in terms of
[1:11:42] Speaker 1: where you put them.
[1:11:43] Speaker 3: Who do you have at twenty one?
[1:11:44] Speaker 1: We're wrapping up with the bottom twelve front office gms.
[1:11:49] Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't mean you're not doing a great job.
[1:11:51] Speaker 1: You just you know, there's other great people and there.
[1:11:53] Speaker 4: You've made it here, you're doing fine. Yeah, Okay, I
[1:11:57] Speaker 4: have basically one single statement to make about this next pick.
[1:12:03] Speaker 4: I'm going with Andrew Berry here.
[1:12:05] Speaker 2: I am going.
[1:12:07] Speaker 4: I'm going with Andrew Berry as someone who has sunk
[1:12:11] Speaker 4: down pretty much to the lower tier in my mind
[1:12:15] Speaker 4: of what this exercise normally would be, and especially two
[1:12:20] Speaker 4: years ago and previously because of the decision that he
[1:12:25] Speaker 4: helped facilitate, at the very least at quarterback, the contract
[1:12:29] Speaker 4: for Deshaun Watson in the midst of sexual assaults, very
[1:12:33] Speaker 4: credible sexual assault allegations that led to a league investigation
[1:12:37] Speaker 4: and a suspension after the league investigated.
[1:12:43] Speaker 2: The turnover.
[1:12:46] Speaker 4: Continually on the coaching staff, the talk about how this
[1:12:51] Speaker 4: is a really advanced analytical group, but we never quite
[1:12:54] Speaker 4: saw what that would apply to and it certainly didn't
[1:12:57] Speaker 4: apply to wins over the years. I put him here
[1:13:00] Speaker 4: now because over the last two seasons, I think we
[1:13:05] Speaker 4: are starting to see a little bit more of who
[1:13:08] Speaker 4: Andrew Berry A Wants to be and b is going
[1:13:10] Speaker 4: to be as as a general manager. The draft classes
[1:13:14] Speaker 4: the last two and I'm counting this recent one, I
[1:13:17] Speaker 4: liked this recent one a lot. The last two draft classes,
[1:13:20] Speaker 4: in my mind, have been outstanding. He also has finally
[1:13:24] Speaker 4: done the thing that he has talked about as an
[1:13:27] Speaker 4: analytically minded practice four years, which is shed a high
[1:13:32] Speaker 4: asset player who is maybe getting a little bit older,
[1:13:35] Speaker 4: leaning into more of the rebuild that the rest of
[1:13:37] Speaker 4: their roster is, and turning that player into more pick
[1:13:41] Speaker 4: capital as they continue continue to dig themselves out of
[1:13:46] Speaker 4: the absolute dead weight whole of their own creation that
[1:13:50] Speaker 4: was bringing in Deshaun Watson.
[1:13:52] Speaker 2: So he is the architect of.
[1:13:54] Speaker 4: That mistake and all of the ripple effect of it
[1:13:58] Speaker 4: He also, I think, in especially the last two years,
[1:14:02] Speaker 4: has done a very nice job of maybe finally starting
[1:14:05] Speaker 4: to see daylight on the other side. And I appreciate
[1:14:08] Speaker 4: that type of process driven action, and I'm drafting on
[1:14:12] Speaker 4: potential here as well.
[1:14:14] Speaker 1: Look, they won eleven games twice in the Andrew Berry era.
[1:14:17] Speaker 1: My issue is more, even if you take out Watson,
[1:14:21] Speaker 1: which I don't, I have him as a bottom two
[1:14:23] Speaker 1: or three GM. The biggest problems that were of their
[1:14:27] Speaker 1: own creation, like the offensive line last year having like
[1:14:30] Speaker 1: some of the worst contracts in the league because of
[1:14:32] Speaker 1: their offensive line. Watson plays into that because of how
[1:14:35] Speaker 1: they had to move around money and everything. And then
[1:14:37] Speaker 1: I'm not giving him too much credit until the draft classes,
[1:14:41] Speaker 1: which I agree look great on paper, and I like
[1:14:42] Speaker 1: the process and which is why he could get, you know,
[1:14:45] Speaker 1: taken this high as because of process, they still have
[1:14:48] Speaker 1: to just do it.
[1:14:48] Speaker 3: The point is to win games. So I had him Flower.
[1:14:51] Speaker 2: I just don't think. I just don't think he's a
[1:14:53] Speaker 2: bottom of the league GM.
[1:14:55] Speaker 3: Fair. Brandon Bean is next on my list.
[1:14:58] Speaker 1: Is it's hard to separate his vision and from McDermott.
[1:15:02] Speaker 1: He's done a great job building the offensive line, which
[1:15:05] Speaker 1: I think he deserves credit when you talk about the
[1:15:08] Speaker 1: lack of weapons, you know, for Josh Allen on the outside,
[1:15:10] Speaker 1: I mean he has had weapons in terms of James
[1:15:13] Speaker 1: Cook and that offensive line. So the drafts have been
[1:15:16] Speaker 1: uneven out at best. I would say overall flat out
[1:15:19] Speaker 1: poor the last few years. The best player from their
[1:15:21] Speaker 1: last three drafts is probably Dalton Kincaid. It's not great.
[1:15:24] Speaker 1: Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyder probably the defining moves of
[1:15:27] Speaker 1: this entire run, and that was like in their first offseason,
[1:15:30] Speaker 1: and that was a lot of McDermott. So it's tough
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: to you know, separate things out. The DJ Moore trade
[1:15:36] Speaker 1: was gross to me, but I will give him some
[1:15:39] Speaker 1: credit for doing all the winning.
[1:15:41] Speaker 3: And he likes a solid player.
[1:15:44] Speaker 1: I just think he likes solidly like I feel like
[1:15:49] Speaker 1: he aims for B minuses a lot and that's what
[1:15:52] Speaker 1: he gets.
[1:15:53] Speaker 4: Also got the quarterback, you know also also but you
[1:15:57] Speaker 4: know then probably I think, in my opinion, was a
[1:15:59] Speaker 4: little too stubborn about developing out that receiving corps around
[1:16:04] Speaker 4: the quarterback or not doing so over the years and
[1:16:09] Speaker 4: people we love to see everything now and obviously one
[1:16:14] Speaker 4: of the best players we've ever seen in the NFL.
[1:16:17] Speaker 4: But Josh Allen was a risk at that pick, and
[1:16:20] Speaker 4: he was up drafting for potential kind of player, and
[1:16:25] Speaker 4: they got it right, and you can't. That's not enough
[1:16:28] Speaker 4: to just get that right at this point in the NFL,
[1:16:30] Speaker 4: with so many good quarterbacks and so many good teams
[1:16:33] Speaker 4: and coaches who give you an advantage schematically, that's not enough.
[1:16:36] Speaker 4: You have to do more and constantly do more. So
[1:16:39] Speaker 4: very interested to see how this year goes in Buffalo.
[1:16:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely, I definitely took away points from him
[1:16:47] Speaker 1: just for the palace intrigue and the grossness of it all.
[1:16:51] Speaker 2: We're on Vibes ultimately, We're on Vibe Ross.
[1:16:53] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:16:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:16:53] Speaker 1: The rosters ultimately have been pretty solid over the years,
[1:16:57] Speaker 1: so we're we're punishing him appropriately, I think, but would
[1:17:01] Speaker 1: have felt bad if he went any further.
[1:17:02] Speaker 4: You have twenty three now I am punishing and also rewarding,
[1:17:07] Speaker 4: I think appropriately, the first season and a half of
[1:17:12] Speaker 4: this guy, John Spytech, who I'm going to put next,
[1:17:16] Speaker 4: in part because what a disaster of a first year.
[1:17:21] Speaker 2: You know, you talk about palace intrigue, but.
[1:17:25] Speaker 4: There's a lot of push and pull that can happen
[1:17:27] Speaker 4: when you come into a job as a first year
[1:17:32] Speaker 4: GM and the head coach that you're paired with is
[1:17:37] Speaker 4: an absolute legend, and navigating that coach's vision while also
[1:17:44] Speaker 4: trying to understand what your own is while also trying
[1:17:47] Speaker 4: to put together a roster that had really just been
[1:17:52] Speaker 4: very talent poor for the last couple of seasons, really
[1:17:56] Speaker 4: really complicated needle to thread, and it didn't work, which
[1:17:59] Speaker 4: is why we're seeing kind of the after Why we
[1:18:02] Speaker 4: saw the after effects of what we did, Pe Carroll
[1:18:04] Speaker 4: getting fired and a lot of the people that he
[1:18:07] Speaker 4: brought in are now no longer in the building. I
[1:18:11] Speaker 4: believe in John Spytech's background, first of all in Denver,
[1:18:15] Speaker 4: but then also with Jason light for ever and working
[1:18:20] Speaker 4: with that draft and develop type of internal mentality.
[1:18:24] Speaker 2: I would say John Spytech wants to take.
[1:18:26] Speaker 4: A little bit more of a modern approach to what
[1:18:29] Speaker 4: their internal procedure looks like and their internal scouting system
[1:18:32] Speaker 4: and data and all those types of things. And I
[1:18:34] Speaker 4: think he had a hell of an off season. I
[1:18:36] Speaker 4: think the Raiders had a hell of an off season.
[1:18:38] Speaker 4: I think that for the first time really since he
[1:18:41] Speaker 4: got there a couple of years ago. You can actually
[1:18:44] Speaker 4: see what this team is trying to accomplish and what
[1:18:47] Speaker 4: they're going for. It really helps to have the number
[1:18:49] Speaker 4: one overall pick getting a step forward out of last
[1:18:53] Speaker 4: year's draft class, which we're not really sure whether they
[1:18:55] Speaker 4: will take a step forward or not, but they could.
[1:18:58] Speaker 4: If they do, then I think we're looking at the
[1:19:00] Speaker 4: first two years of this specifically John spy Tech tenure
[1:19:03] Speaker 4: in a different lens than maybe we were at the
[1:19:05] Speaker 4: end of last season.
[1:19:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a weird amount of confidence in him.
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: Steven the Trainer is going to be mad that spy
[1:19:13] Speaker 1: Tech even went this low. The Raiders, you know, and
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: their fans are so confident in this offseason. But one
[1:19:18] Speaker 1: thing I've also learned is my evaluations of which off
[1:19:21] Speaker 1: seasons are good or not are meaningless. It is very
[1:19:25] Speaker 1: hard to predict, and so if they end up actually
[1:19:28] Speaker 1: having a bad offseason, which is very possible, then it's
[1:19:33] Speaker 1: oh for two here for spy Tech.
[1:19:35] Speaker 3: But I like that pick there.
[1:19:38] Speaker 1: All right, it's time for the off season ride along
[1:19:40] Speaker 1: presented by Toyota. I'm feeling bad for just the situation
[1:19:45] Speaker 1: that Duke Tobin inherited, so I'm just going to go
[1:19:47] Speaker 1: Duke Tobin. The drafts have been pretty bad since Jamar Chase,
[1:19:49] Speaker 1: but I am going to give him credit for the
[1:19:53] Speaker 1: the mid of last decade when he was doing so
[1:19:56] Speaker 1: much better in terms of drafting, and I just think
[1:19:59] Speaker 1: they he's he's playing with a.
[1:20:01] Speaker 3: Lot against him.
[1:20:03] Speaker 1: The offensive overhaul in terms of the offensive line, like,
[1:20:07] Speaker 1: did they get it to average?
[1:20:08] Speaker 3: Is that enough?
[1:20:09] Speaker 1: Obviously the defensive problems over the last few years have
[1:20:12] Speaker 1: been pretty rough. They wait a little too long to
[1:20:14] Speaker 1: address something that's a big problem when in Cincinnati.
[1:20:18] Speaker 4: Uh yeah, fair, all of that's fair. And then they
[1:20:21] Speaker 4: also still and that's this is more of an ownership problem,
[1:20:24] Speaker 4: but still they they have not really relative to the
[1:20:28] Speaker 4: rest of the league staffed out their different talent ID departments,
[1:20:32] Speaker 4: scouting personnel, those types of things.
[1:20:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not happening.
[1:20:35] Speaker 1: That's almost weirdly why I give Tovin like credit or
[1:20:37] Speaker 1: credit trying to make it work despite all that.
[1:20:40] Speaker 3: But I hear you.
[1:20:40] Speaker 4: That's I also think maybe to be a little bit
[1:20:43] Speaker 4: fair too. It gets really complicated when you're trying to
[1:20:46] Speaker 4: serve the franchise quarterback in totality, Like it's pretty clear
[1:20:52] Speaker 4: all the things that they've done pretty pretty clear about,
[1:20:55] Speaker 4: you know, wanting to make sure that Joe Burrow is happy.
[1:20:58] Speaker 2: Now.
[1:20:58] Speaker 4: On the other hand, you know some of the things
[1:21:00] Speaker 4: that come out of that building about players being onhappy,
[1:21:03] Speaker 4: Trey Hendrickson and the way that his process went down,
[1:21:06] Speaker 4: the things that he was unhappy with. Just from an
[1:21:08] Speaker 4: interpersonal perspective, you know, those kinds of things tend to
[1:21:13] Speaker 4: knock someone down a little bit more too.
[1:21:15] Speaker 2: But I think that's a tough spot to be in.
[1:21:17] Speaker 4: You're not going to get resources to do the things
[1:21:19] Speaker 4: you want to do, and also you're trying to keep
[1:21:22] Speaker 4: one of the best quarterbacks in football happy enough to
[1:21:24] Speaker 4: continue to like lead your team. That's also pretty a
[1:21:28] Speaker 4: difficult line line to walk.
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: And that was the off season ride along presented by
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: Toyota because when people are the destination, your ride is important.
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: Learn more at toyota dot com and find the vehicle
[1:21:40] Speaker 1: that fits your people.
[1:21:42] Speaker 4: I'm I'm I'm feeling kind of bad for the combination
[1:21:45] Speaker 4: of John Harbaugh and Joe Shane.
[1:21:49] Speaker 2: They are pretty low on this list. I actually I
[1:21:55] Speaker 2: might put Harbaugh's name first here honestly because.
[1:21:58] Speaker 3: That's how I wrote it.
[1:21:59] Speaker 4: Yeah, because Joe Shane, who just got extended by the Giants,
[1:22:06] Speaker 4: and Harbaugh has sort of taken on what seems to
[1:22:10] Speaker 4: be a little bit more of a facilitator role with
[1:22:13] Speaker 4: John Harbaugh coming in and listen, when you hire a
[1:22:15] Speaker 4: coach like that, and we talked about it at length,
[1:22:18] Speaker 4: so I don't have to get too much into it now,
[1:22:20] Speaker 4: when you hire a coach like that, yes, the expectation
[1:22:23] Speaker 4: is that that is what is going to happen. He
[1:22:25] Speaker 4: is going to come in and no matter how much
[1:22:27] Speaker 4: posturing you put out through the media, that guy is
[1:22:29] Speaker 4: going to be in charge. And so what I think
[1:22:31] Speaker 4: the Giants did really well this offseason was executing that
[1:22:36] Speaker 4: vision and going through and trying to build with whatever
[1:22:40] Speaker 4: they could as much as they could with the resources
[1:22:43] Speaker 4: they had, build this into more of a John Harbaugh
[1:22:46] Speaker 4: look like team, right, And so if that was the
[1:22:49] Speaker 4: plan in the process, I think they'ved so far achieved
[1:22:51] Speaker 4: that process.
[1:22:52] Speaker 2: And so I would put them here.
[1:22:54] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:22:55] Speaker 1: My question for Harbaugh is more just like how much
[1:22:58] Speaker 1: better will it be?
[1:22:59] Speaker 3: Because it's new.
[1:23:00] Speaker 1: We've seen him kind of in that Ravens model where
[1:23:03] Speaker 1: it is very front office focused for the most part.
[1:23:06] Speaker 1: I like, you know, their draft and what they did
[1:23:09] Speaker 1: this offseason. I mean didn't blow me away or anything.
[1:23:12] Speaker 1: It's not like Joshine hasn't had some good draft picks,
[1:23:16] Speaker 1: but he had a lot of them, and I think
[1:23:18] Speaker 1: the self scouting was poor, so I'm with you. I
[1:23:21] Speaker 1: put Harbaugh first there, which probably bumps him up a
[1:23:23] Speaker 1: couple spots. I had him lower, but whatever. John Eric
[1:23:27] Speaker 1: Sullivan is next on my list. Hey, they have a plan,
[1:23:33] Speaker 1: not about this year. That's the easy part.
[1:23:35] Speaker 3: I like the move. The picks we'll see, but who knows.
[1:23:40] Speaker 1: It's hard to give him too much credit when they're just,
[1:23:43] Speaker 1: you know, inheriting stuff from the previous regime. But everything
[1:23:45] Speaker 1: they've done process wise so far has made sense to me.
[1:23:51] Speaker 2: A year from now, I cannot wait. I just a
[1:23:55] Speaker 2: lot can happen.
[1:23:56] Speaker 4: I might get unlucky here in terms of my take
[1:23:58] Speaker 4: and standing ten toes down on my take of what
[1:24:01] Speaker 4: they're doing, which is following again the sprint rebuild blueprint
[1:24:04] Speaker 4: that I've talked way too much about.
[1:24:05] Speaker 2: At this point, they've.
[1:24:07] Speaker 4: Done everything the way that they need to to correctly
[1:24:11] Speaker 4: adhere to a plan like that.
[1:24:13] Speaker 2: A lot of things could happen.
[1:24:14] Speaker 4: People can get injured, things, you know, whatever is going
[1:24:17] Speaker 4: to happen. But in terms of identifying their plan sticking
[1:24:22] Speaker 4: to their plan, I really really like it. And I
[1:24:24] Speaker 4: think also that there's some really underrated players over on
[1:24:27] Speaker 4: that roster that more people will be talking about this
[1:24:31] Speaker 4: year if they are at all going to watch Dolphins games,
[1:24:34] Speaker 4: which who knows, but like will I know.
[1:24:37] Speaker 2: I will.
[1:24:37] Speaker 4: I volunteered for a lot of them last year because
[1:24:40] Speaker 4: I really thought they were fun to watch last year
[1:24:42] Speaker 4: in a lot of ways.
[1:24:43] Speaker 2: So yeah, I like what they're doing. I don't mind
[1:24:46] Speaker 2: it at all.
[1:24:47] Speaker 4: I actually put him lower because he's the first a
[1:24:49] Speaker 4: first year guy, you know, like I put the first
[1:24:51] Speaker 4: year guys lower, So because I've relative to like actually
[1:24:56] Speaker 4: following through on a plan, Like I love it.
[1:24:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, I had them a handful of spots over the harbor,
[1:25:01] Speaker 1: Like I actually kind of trust this for an office
[1:25:04] Speaker 1: who's been doing it this way more than Harbaugh, necessarily
[1:25:08] Speaker 1: just because Harbard he's been in the league long time.
[1:25:10] Speaker 1: He's a coach like it. So but again we're at
[1:25:13] Speaker 1: the final sort of speed round here of the last six,
[1:25:16] Speaker 1: so we're off vibes, as we said, all right, you're
[1:25:19] Speaker 1: at twenty seven.
[1:25:20] Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going Darren Moogie here a lot of vibes basings.
[1:25:24] Speaker 4: I like his background. I think that he comes from
[1:25:26] Speaker 4: a solid background in obviously in Denver, and I think
[1:25:29] Speaker 4: that this is a long term vision that they're so
[1:25:34] Speaker 4: far following the steps pretty well, trading off of, you know,
[1:25:38] Speaker 4: high profile players to recoup draft capital, lifting the floor
[1:25:45] Speaker 4: in a lot of ways, not only to walk the
[1:25:47] Speaker 4: line of compromising with your head coach who you are
[1:25:50] Speaker 4: you know, maybe not sure about, but certainly not trying
[1:25:53] Speaker 4: to just move out of the building like anyone wants
[1:25:56] Speaker 4: something to work, right, that's the best case scenarios of
[1:25:59] Speaker 4: something really does end up working with the coach that
[1:26:02] Speaker 4: they've invested in and hired. So raising the floor in
[1:26:06] Speaker 4: some ways with some of the cash spending that they
[1:26:08] Speaker 4: went out and did in free agency, but really stockpiling
[1:26:11] Speaker 4: a lot of these picks to specifically build rebuild this
[1:26:14] Speaker 4: roster in a much more slower and methodical build, but
[1:26:19] Speaker 4: one that I think the Jets really really need and
[1:26:22] Speaker 4: to really recreate some of that infrastructure is super important
[1:26:25] Speaker 4: about after all of the turnover that they've had over
[1:26:28] Speaker 4: the last couple of years.
[1:26:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, on paper, his moves have been pretty solid in drafts.
[1:26:32] Speaker 1: You know this one looks promising. We'll see, but you know,
[1:26:34] Speaker 1: armand Membu and Mason Taylor as their first two, they've
[1:26:38] Speaker 1: they had a lot of good trades around the margins
[1:26:40] Speaker 1: Adie Mitchell, Harrison Phillips, Juan Briggs, Jarvis Browne. I like
[1:26:44] Speaker 1: those moves where he's just like slightly upgrading the roster.
[1:26:48] Speaker 1: He would have probably been higher for me if not
[1:26:51] Speaker 1: for just one withering thing that always stuck in my
[1:26:57] Speaker 1: set in my head from someone in the league about him,
[1:27:00] Speaker 1: where they said, oh, he's not a guy. It was like, oh, guy,
[1:27:05] Speaker 1: that's the worst thing I've ever heard. But it's so
[1:27:09] Speaker 1: far on paper, I think, I think it's it's been
[1:27:11] Speaker 1: pretty good.
[1:27:12] Speaker 4: I'm going to touch you offline and see you figure
[1:27:14] Speaker 4: out who said that one. That's crazy.
[1:27:16] Speaker 1: Wow, it's crazy. Yeah, it's stuck in my head so much.
[1:27:19] Speaker 1: I had to put it in my notes. Look, we're
[1:27:24] Speaker 1: getting into it. I know Saints fans are going to
[1:27:31] Speaker 1: be mad, and yet if I go by my board,
[1:27:35] Speaker 1: it's awesome for it. Next, this is so this is rough.
[1:27:43] Speaker 1: You know what my heart, my heart wants what it
[1:27:45] Speaker 1: wants here. I will take Mickey off the board. Mickey
[1:27:48] Speaker 1: Loomis and Jeff Ireland if we were doing a slash.
[1:27:51] Speaker 1: I think is as active and insistent GM as.
[1:27:55] Speaker 3: There is in the league. Maybe is more of the GM.
[1:27:58] Speaker 1: I mean, look, he since John Payton's gone, they've won
[1:28:00] Speaker 1: seven games, nine games, five games in six games. That's
[1:28:04] Speaker 1: pretty rough. They're always looking at the offensive line. Look
[1:28:07] Speaker 1: the Banks picked last year. The Banks and Fuaga combination
[1:28:11] Speaker 1: could be really spicy. You kind of know what you're getting.
[1:28:13] Speaker 1: They like the big, strong, like end players. Chase Young
[1:28:16] Speaker 1: was a fined recently. They had that seventeen draft class.
[1:28:20] Speaker 1: But the drafts, you know, it's been a while, just
[1:28:22] Speaker 1: process wise. All the trading up for players and never
[1:28:26] Speaker 1: trading back kills me. But that's why he's at twenty eight.
[1:28:32] Speaker 1: And I did find some positives. I think the ceiling
[1:28:35] Speaker 1: of this team, it's very New Orleans. The ceiling of
[1:28:38] Speaker 1: this team is actually quite high, especially on offense.
[1:28:43] Speaker 3: It is a boom or bus roster.
[1:28:45] Speaker 1: But if you look at the line and the talent
[1:28:47] Speaker 1: and just what they've put together the last couple of years,
[1:28:49] Speaker 1: you can't see a vision.
[1:28:51] Speaker 4: I like how in your response to yourself about why
[1:28:55] Speaker 4: you picking Mickey Lumin, you also gave yourself a little
[1:28:58] Speaker 4: bit of a compliment.
[1:29:00] Speaker 2: I did find some positive in there too. Also, by
[1:29:02] Speaker 2: the way.
[1:29:03] Speaker 1: Well I'm saying now we're on like the bottom five,
[1:29:06] Speaker 1: and so it's like you can find positives for sure.
[1:29:09] Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to go Ian Cunningham and Matt Ryan. Really,
[1:29:13] Speaker 4: the majority reason why I picked this is I really
[1:29:17] Speaker 4: trust Ian Cunningham's background. He was the number two to
[1:29:21] Speaker 4: Ryan Poles for their tenure together in Chicago, but before
[1:29:25] Speaker 4: that he worked for the Eagles, and before that he
[1:29:27] Speaker 4: worked for the Ravens, and I think that the combination
[1:29:31] Speaker 4: of himself and Matt Ryan is really promising. Matt Ryan,
[1:29:35] Speaker 4: you know, I heard some chatter right when he was
[1:29:38] Speaker 4: taking that job, which seemed to be custom built for him,
[1:29:42] Speaker 4: about how he was one of the rare people who
[1:29:47] Speaker 4: could go in and tell the owner that he was
[1:29:49] Speaker 4: wrong about making a certain decision, or could speak up
[1:29:53] Speaker 4: and the owner would was maybe empowered to speak to
[1:29:58] Speaker 4: his boss, essentially in ways that maybe other people in
[1:30:02] Speaker 4: that building in previous years had not felt. And it's
[1:30:04] Speaker 4: not it's Arthur Blank has a great reputation, is like
[1:30:07] Speaker 4: a genuinely you know, we think billionaires are bad obviously,
[1:30:10] Speaker 4: but has a genuine reputation of being a pretty solid guy, right,
[1:30:14] Speaker 4: and but still the power dynamics at play are crazy
[1:30:18] Speaker 4: when it comes to some disagreeing with an owner who
[1:30:22] Speaker 4: does have a strong opinion about one thing or another
[1:30:25] Speaker 4: in that building. And so I like the potential here,
[1:30:28] Speaker 4: And like I said, I trust Ian Cunningham's background, I
[1:30:30] Speaker 4: trust the potential, and so I'm fine drafting on potential here.
[1:30:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, I had them thirty one.
[1:30:37] Speaker 1: I had Andrew Barry thirty two, just partly because there's
[1:30:40] Speaker 1: no track record with these two to base it on.
[1:30:43] Speaker 1: And I'm just a little confused about what's going on there.
[1:30:45] Speaker 1: The moves that they made this offseason are confusing to me,
[1:30:48] Speaker 1: Like this was a good this was a pretty good
[1:30:50] Speaker 1: team last year. And yeah, they're they're adding a lot
[1:30:53] Speaker 1: of a lot of people. Well, we'll see how it
[1:30:56] Speaker 1: plays out. Some of the trades, like a roorer row
[1:30:59] Speaker 1: even that trade seem weird to me. The TUA, we'll see.
[1:31:02] Speaker 1: It's fine, they're taking a step back. Is it too
[1:31:03] Speaker 1: much Matt Ryan?
[1:31:04] Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know if I love that.
[1:31:06] Speaker 1: I hope it's more Ian Cunningham, But Matt Ryan's at
[1:31:09] Speaker 1: the top of the list. We're splitting Harris here I
[1:31:12] Speaker 1: have should I guess I'll go Austin for it here.
[1:31:16] Speaker 1: The drafts have been solid enough. They haven't been great,
[1:31:19] Speaker 1: but they haven't been bad. Paris Johnson, you know, you
[1:31:21] Speaker 1: could pick nits about that will Anderson trade if you
[1:31:23] Speaker 1: if you look back now. But they moved around the board,
[1:31:26] Speaker 1: you know, Paris Johnson, Garrett Wilson, Michael Michael Wilson rather
[1:31:30] Speaker 1: than Garrett Williams. The next year they had the extra
[1:31:33] Speaker 1: first and they didn't really make good use of it
[1:31:36] Speaker 1: with Darius Robinson and Max Melton. You inherited Kyler Murray's
[1:31:40] Speaker 1: contract like six month months before you got hired.
[1:31:43] Speaker 3: Which was tricky.
[1:31:45] Speaker 1: But you also hired Jonathan Gannon also and already threw
[1:31:48] Speaker 1: him overboard another front office. That's, you know, playing in
[1:31:52] Speaker 1: a difficult situation. Just look at the franchises record since
[1:31:56] Speaker 1: the same name has been owning that team throughout and
[1:31:59] Speaker 1: so that that needs to be considered.
[1:32:02] Speaker 3: But that's also why he fell this far.
[1:32:06] Speaker 2: All of it makes sense.
[1:32:08] Speaker 4: My pick at thirty one, I'm making in part because
[1:32:14] Speaker 4: I really do want to make this pick, but also
[1:32:16] Speaker 4: because I'd like to make a point.
[1:32:17] Speaker 2: So I'm using him almost as a vessel.
[1:32:19] Speaker 4: To make a point that I'd like to make Nolan Teasley,
[1:32:22] Speaker 4: I'm putting at thirty one. I know he's been on
[1:32:24] Speaker 4: the job for two days. This is the thing. I
[1:32:26] Speaker 4: trust his background, I really do. I trust how long
[1:32:29] Speaker 4: he's worked with John Schneider are number two on this list.
[1:32:32] Speaker 4: I trust the vision there. I really I think that
[1:32:36] Speaker 4: he is a lot more analytically minded than the team
[1:32:39] Speaker 4: is like selling right now because they're trying to overcorrect
[1:32:41] Speaker 4: from the perception that koes Udofo Menso was too analytically minded.
[1:32:46] Speaker 2: Nolan Teasley is as well.
[1:32:47] Speaker 4: He helped build the scouting system that Seattle uses. The
[1:32:51] Speaker 4: other point that I wanted to make is I loved
[1:32:53] Speaker 4: you and Patrick Sporgan or Brazinski episode like via Brazinski,
[1:32:57] Speaker 4: it was so fun to listen to you guys like
[1:32:59] Speaker 4: roll with that bit.
[1:33:00] Speaker 2: I will also.
[1:33:00] Speaker 4: Say the vikings in Totality are built in a way
[1:33:04] Speaker 4: where the same people have been making the same decisions
[1:33:08] Speaker 4: for a long number of years, including when Quasi do
[1:33:12] Speaker 4: Famensa was the GM there and was not able to
[1:33:15] Speaker 4: bring in an entire staff of people around him to
[1:33:18] Speaker 4: build through whatever that vision may have been.
[1:33:21] Speaker 2: Yes, criticize the draft picks, all of that stuff.
[1:33:23] Speaker 4: Fine, that's fair, But Nolan Teasley, I am very curious
[1:33:28] Speaker 4: to see who is actually going to come with him,
[1:33:30] Speaker 4: if anybody, because you're basically saying, you're changing the narrative
[1:33:34] Speaker 4: around a GM candidate optically, and you're saying, but actually
[1:33:39] Speaker 4: the entire infrastructure that got us into this mess in
[1:33:42] Speaker 4: the first place is still the same. So I'm just
[1:33:45] Speaker 4: very curious about how this goes. And I buy Nolan
[1:33:49] Speaker 4: Teasley as a GM. I also think that he'll work
[1:33:53] Speaker 4: really well with Kevin O'Connell. We'll have to see, obviously,
[1:33:57] Speaker 4: but I am fascinated by that dynamic because again, there
[1:34:01] Speaker 4: was a different narrative attached to this candidate and this
[1:34:05] Speaker 4: higher but the infrastructure of the team and the organization
[1:34:08] Speaker 4: and the people in the front office have has stayed
[1:34:11] Speaker 4: the same.
[1:34:12] Speaker 2: So very very curious about all of that.
[1:34:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be a good situation for a GM
[1:34:16] Speaker 1: to walk into with an established head coach there and
[1:34:20] Speaker 1: established front office. He just got to fit in, you know,
[1:34:23] Speaker 1: both him and Mike who's thirty, Yeah, who's.
[1:34:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, who's been there?
[1:34:28] Speaker 1: The child breakers via Brazinski and so yes, the man
[1:34:32] Speaker 1: who succeeded Chad Brinker. Running the Titans is Mike Borganzi.
[1:34:35] Speaker 1: You know, these guys at the end, for the most part,
[1:34:37] Speaker 1: just got punished because we don't know their track record yet.
[1:34:40] Speaker 3: Even the moves that they made this offseason.
[1:34:43] Speaker 1: We want to see if they look as good on
[1:34:44] Speaker 1: the field as on paper. I think their off season
[1:34:47] Speaker 1: for the most part with the Titans has made sense,
[1:34:50] Speaker 1: like it's been a solid offseason. Borganzi comes from the
[1:34:53] Speaker 1: Chief's tree, and yeah, he is the latest winner of
[1:34:57] Speaker 1: a Titan's power struggle, and it's not his fault. That's
[1:35:00] Speaker 1: how the organization has gone for a while. And I
[1:35:04] Speaker 1: think it really points out looking at Loomis and Austin
[1:35:06] Speaker 1: Ford at the end here in Mouji and some of
[1:35:08] Speaker 1: the other guys this exercise more than any of the others.
[1:35:13] Speaker 1: I don't really believe there's that big of a difference
[1:35:15] Speaker 1: between most of the front offices. They do things in
[1:35:18] Speaker 1: a different way, but I'm saying in the results of
[1:35:21] Speaker 1: what they get in terms of acquiring talent, I think
[1:35:25] Speaker 1: comparing it to even coaches, which is, you know, the
[1:35:28] Speaker 1: most passive thing we're going to rank the rest of
[1:35:30] Speaker 1: them is all just players. Which is they're the ones
[1:35:33] Speaker 1: on the field, they're active. I think the difference of
[1:35:36] Speaker 1: great coach, you know, coaches is less than people make
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: it out.
[1:35:39] Speaker 3: To me.
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: I really think that's the case with front offices, that
[1:35:42] Speaker 1: it's very situational and like there's not as big a
[1:35:46] Speaker 1: difference to me, at least I'm just speaking for myself,
[1:35:49] Speaker 1: not for you, between spot twelve and spot thirty on
[1:35:52] Speaker 1: this list than there would be on the.
[1:35:54] Speaker 4: Other list, I'd say similar to a lot of people,
[1:35:57] Speaker 4: a lot of these guys who do build out their
[1:35:59] Speaker 4: first round draft boards every year. Once you hit fifteen
[1:36:03] Speaker 4: to seventeen, there is pretty much a big pool of
[1:36:07] Speaker 4: people who still have to be determined right or that
[1:36:11] Speaker 4: are sort of similar in a lot of ways. Where
[1:36:14] Speaker 4: I do very much disagree with you is the coach
[1:36:16] Speaker 4: is the edge and advantage with the coach because more
[1:36:18] Speaker 4: so than at GM, the coach's language and the coach's
[1:36:22] Speaker 4: process is ingrained throughout every piece of the building, far
[1:36:25] Speaker 4: more so other than perhaps the Howie Roseman, that coach
[1:36:30] Speaker 4: is really the entire roadmap basically for the building, and
[1:36:38] Speaker 4: certainly if he's a talented a talented coach. So I
[1:36:41] Speaker 4: do think the influence and the advantage can be greater,
[1:36:44] Speaker 4: and similarly, the failure can be greater too, So I
[1:36:50] Speaker 4: do think that's a difference maker.
[1:36:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, I was trying to and I spoke poorly, do
[1:36:55] Speaker 1: it on a sliding scale where the coach would be
[1:36:57] Speaker 1: somewhere in between the GM in the play, and it's crazy.
[1:37:00] Speaker 3: I just think people don't.
[1:37:02] Speaker 1: They're uncomfortable with the idea that luck determines so much
[1:37:06] Speaker 1: of everything in life, certainly of a game where the
[1:37:10] Speaker 1: ball isn't round, like, just so much of it as luck.
[1:37:13] Speaker 1: And to me, the players so much of their career
[1:37:17] Speaker 1: is based on luck too. But the sliding scale, to
[1:37:20] Speaker 1: me is the GMS. I think you can make the
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: argument the majority of their careers, Like if I'm weighing
[1:37:28] Speaker 1: all the factors, I think luck is the most important one.
[1:37:31] Speaker 3: Unfortunately you can.
[1:37:33] Speaker 1: It's it's kind of like, you know, professional gamblers, they
[1:37:36] Speaker 1: try to control like the thirty percent that they can control,
[1:37:40] Speaker 1: and that's the best that you can control, and most
[1:37:42] Speaker 1: of the rest, it's like just put the chips out
[1:37:45] Speaker 1: and hope, hope they go well and hopefully people enjoyed
[1:37:49] Speaker 1: our NFL Daily thirty two.
[1:37:51] Speaker 4: You know what, some probably did and some probably didn't,
[1:37:54] Speaker 4: and we will hear about it.
[1:37:57] Speaker 3: Hopefully.
[1:37:58] Speaker 2: I mean, people can't fun doing it doing pease.
[1:38:01] Speaker 3: I did too, because it just gets you thinking about.
[1:38:03] Speaker 2: How are you going to rage bit people on social
[1:38:06] Speaker 2: media this time?
[1:38:07] Speaker 3: Greg? I won't. I will try not to. We will
[1:38:11] Speaker 3: see you on Monday. It'll be a shock show.
[1:38:15] Speaker 1: We're always doing the news and like I mentioned, a
[1:38:18] Speaker 1: couple of contracts hit that music.
[1:38:19] Speaker 3: Thank you, Jordan.
[1:38:20] Speaker 1: Great to have you back this week for two really
[1:38:22] Speaker 1: strong episodes. The GM one everyone go check out our
[1:38:26] Speaker 1: Garrett AJ Brown inside the Garrett Trade episode. Was really
[1:38:30] Speaker 1: proud of all the episodes this week, so hopefully you
[1:38:33] Speaker 1: guys liked them too, and we'll be back with another
[1:38:35] Speaker 1: big week four shows next week on NFL Daily.
[1:38:38] Speaker 3: We'll see you them

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