# When Your Kids Don't Need You Anymore

An episode of [Best Life Pending with Steph De Sousa & Chrissy Hearn](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/6806116018), 25 Oct 2026, 31 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/8a91b3ea-7269-45c7-af4a-b4b4000720d1/541b631d-58cb-4d32-b742-b4ea005cff69/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e767cf02-fafa-4c28-b85a-b4b400072512

What happens when your kids grow up and your role as a parent starts to change? Chrissy and Steph get honest about empty nests, the never-ending mental load, parenting regrets and the challenge of letting adult children make their own mistakes. Plus, why it's time to stop judging yourself for the parent you were and give yourself a little grace. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: A Poche production. And action. I'm Chrissy Hearn.
[0:14] Speaker 2: And I am Steph DeSouza. And our podcast is Best
[0:18] Speaker 2: Life Fending. Do you want to be my wing woman?
[0:23] Speaker 1: Being nice to yourself.
[0:24] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[0:25] Speaker 1: Don't be so hard on yourself. Yeah. We are now
[0:28] Speaker 1: on our eighth episode.
[0:30] Speaker 2: And we haven't been cancelled.
[0:31] Speaker 1: We haven't. Well, that's always a great thing not to
[0:33] Speaker 1: be cancelled.
[0:33] Speaker 2: I know, because, you know, I do live in fear
[0:35] Speaker 2: of that. Do you? That my mouth will one day
[0:38] Speaker 2: cancel me.
[0:39] Speaker 1: Do you really?
[0:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because sometimes I say things that I
[0:43] Speaker 2: just shouldn't. Well, in my head I do. I try
[0:47] Speaker 2: and stop them from coming out loud.
[0:49] Speaker 1: See, I reckon that's come with age because I used
[0:52] Speaker 1: to say whatever came to my mind. I would open
[0:55] Speaker 1: my mouth and it would flow out. I have no
[0:57] Speaker 1: edit button from the brain to the mouth. And now
[1:00] Speaker 1: I find myself going, Christine, I don't know if really
[1:04] Speaker 1: you need to say that.
[1:06] Speaker 2: I don't want to edit myself out. I want to
[1:08] Speaker 2: say it out loud.
[1:09] Speaker 1: See, I think to myself, no, if you say that, Christine, no.
[1:12] Speaker 2: If there was no consequences, I would say it out loud.
[1:16] Speaker 1: You'd just say whatever came to mind. It's just because
[1:18] Speaker 1: the consequences.
[1:19] Speaker 2: I don't want to hurt anybody.
[1:20] Speaker 1: Oh, God, no. Absolutely not.
[1:21] Speaker 2: It's just sometimes I have fairly strong opinions. That need filters.
[1:24] Speaker 1: Oh, I love that you've got strong opinions.
[1:26] Speaker 2: I do.
[1:26] Speaker 1: But it's not looked upon as a good thing for
[1:28] Speaker 1: a woman to have strong opinions. No, no. People don't
[1:31] Speaker 1: like women having strong opinions.
[1:33] Speaker 2: Okay. I just need to say one word and how
[1:35] Speaker 2: much it infuriates me. Okay.
[1:38] Speaker 1: And drum roll, please.
[1:39] Speaker 2: Karen.
[1:40] Speaker 1: Kaz.
[1:41] Speaker 2: Oh, I hate that word being used in a derogatory manner. Yeah.
[1:46] Speaker 2: It honestly makes my skin crawl, makes me so mad
[1:49] Speaker 2: because it's just a way of putting us in our place.
[1:51] Speaker 2: You know, we are completely off track. It's got nothing
[1:54] Speaker 2: to do with our current episode.
[1:55] Speaker 1: But I think that's the beauty of what we're doing.
[1:58] Speaker 1: We are two women having a chat about things that
[2:01] Speaker 1: are of interest to us and I'm sure everybody else
[2:04] Speaker 1: that is listening.
[2:04] Speaker 2: I have even noted podcasts of our own age and
[2:10] Speaker 2: generation and vibe, I would say, using the word Karen.
[2:15] Speaker 2: And I just think, why are you doing that? It's derogatory.
[2:18] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[2:19] Speaker 2: I hate it.
[2:20] Speaker 1: Got to put people in their boxes, don't they? They
[2:22] Speaker 1: have to go, no, no, you go back down there
[2:25] Speaker 1: and hop in your box.
[2:26] Speaker 2: What is Karen? Definition of Karen. It's a middle-aged woman
[2:29] Speaker 2: that has.
[2:30] Speaker 1: Anger management issues.
[2:31] Speaker 2: No, she doesn't. She's got opinions. She's got an opinion. Okay.
[2:37] Speaker 2: I think there are.
[2:38] Speaker 1: I think my Karen and your Karen are very different.
[2:40] Speaker 2: Oh, really?
[2:41] Speaker 1: Yeah. My Karen is the ones that are just whinging
[2:43] Speaker 1: about the dogs that's just gone on the neighbour's grass
[2:47] Speaker 1: and banging on the door.
[2:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there are those people, but I think
[2:51] Speaker 2: it is used to stop middle-aged women from having strong
[2:55] Speaker 2: opinions because we don't want to be called a Karen.
[2:56] Speaker 1: All right. So, okay, now back to the.
[2:58] Speaker 2: Back to subject.
[2:59] Speaker 1: Task in hand. Now that we've had our little... Are
[3:01] Speaker 1: you feeling a bit better now, babes?
[3:03] Speaker 2: You've got that off your chest? I'm feeling a bit
[3:04] Speaker 2: fired up.
[3:05] Speaker 1: That's great. So what are we doing today? What are
[3:06] Speaker 1: we talking? What are we feeling today? Episode seven? Eight, mate.
[3:09] Speaker 1: We're on eight. Oh, fire out.
[3:10] Speaker 2: Why do I keep saying that?
[3:11] Speaker 1: See, brain. We're eight, mate.
[3:13] Speaker 2: Brain gone. Empty nests, children leaving the house.
[3:16] Speaker 1: Okay.
[3:17] Speaker 2: And not needing us anymore.
[3:19] Speaker 1: Right. Okay. Thoughts, feelings and emotions?
[3:22] Speaker 2: Thoughts, feelings and emotions.
[3:23] Speaker 1: Well, you want to bring them all back now that
[3:25] Speaker 1: they're all leaving.
[3:26] Speaker 2: Well, I'm kind of in, I'm in the weeds of this.
[3:29] Speaker 2: I'm in smack bang in the middle of it. Okay.
[3:32] Speaker 2: Because I am about to have my youngest one not
[3:35] Speaker 2: leave the nest, but he's about to go on a
[3:38] Speaker 2: European vacay when he finishes school in about three months' time.
[3:41] Speaker 2: He will not be home for Christmas.
[3:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, that ouchy.
[3:45] Speaker 2: That's a bit ouchy. It'll be my first Christmas without him.
[3:49] Speaker 2: And you know what's really frustrating is this is the
[3:51] Speaker 2: first Christmas that everybody else is going to be home.
[3:55] Speaker 1: There you go.
[3:56] Speaker 2: Grandbabies, everything. And he's not going to be there. But, like, really,
[4:01] Speaker 2: it doesn't matter because we'll still have a fabulous time.
[4:03] Speaker 2: But it's just the thought of it is a bit like,
[4:06] Speaker 2: I don't love that.
[4:07] Speaker 1: It's all about change, isn't it? I'm not a fond person.
[4:10] Speaker 1: I don't like a lot of change. I find change
[4:12] Speaker 1: really difficult.
[4:14] Speaker 2: Oh, do you?
[4:14] Speaker 1: I love it. No, I can't cope. I need everything
[4:16] Speaker 1: to be in its place, like pigeonholed in its box.
[4:20] Speaker 1: So this year I've held the reins of Christmas forever. Ever, ever, ever.
[4:25] Speaker 2: What do you mean?
[4:26] Speaker 1: Well, I've done Christmas.
[4:27] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
[4:27] Speaker 1: So everyone comes to me. Yeah. Because when the boysies
[4:30] Speaker 1: were little, I would say, no, I'm not putting my
[4:33] Speaker 1: kids in the car to be driven here, there and
[4:35] Speaker 1: everywhere to see family. This is their home. They're going
[4:38] Speaker 1: to open their presents. You come to us. So this year,
[4:43] Speaker 1: Maxie and his beautiful partner, they're doing Christmas. So I'm
[4:47] Speaker 1: not doing the setup of the table. I'm not doing
[4:50] Speaker 1: the mad dash to get all the fruit veggies. I'm
[4:53] Speaker 1: not doing any. I'm just turning up. The control is gone.
[4:57] Speaker 2: And how do you feel about it?
[4:59] Speaker 1: Well, I'm ready, to be honest. Oh, yeah?
[5:01] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[5:02] Speaker 1: No, I'm tired. I'm ready. I'm happy to hand over that.
[5:05] Speaker 1: It was a long process for me because it was
[5:07] Speaker 1: like Christmas is my thing. It's my vibe. I love it.
[5:10] Speaker 1: We have so much fun. Christmas Eve, the boysies come in.
[5:14] Speaker 1: We lock down. Yeah, okay. We lock down.
[5:17] Speaker 2: That's beautiful.
[5:18] Speaker 1: We get the games out. I fucking hate board games
[5:21] Speaker 1: because I'm at the kitchen bench cooking, preparing, getting everything.
[5:25] Speaker 1: And I'm getting sluzzled. They're getting sluzzled. We're having a
[5:27] Speaker 1: great time.
[5:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[5:29] Speaker 1: But no, not this year. We're doing something different. I'm okay.
[5:33] Speaker 1: I'm good with it.
[5:33] Speaker 2: Really? I'll be interested to get your feedback and thoughts
[5:36] Speaker 2: and emotions after it. I know.
[5:38] Speaker 1: We could be in the corner rocking backwards and forwards
[5:40] Speaker 1: and going never fucking again.
[5:41] Speaker 2: No. But I get it.
[5:42] Speaker 1: We get over it. Like you get over things. What
[5:46] Speaker 1: are you over? Apart from Karen's, that word Karen being used.
[5:51] Speaker 2: I'm over. I'm going to say this out loud.
[5:54] Speaker 1: Here we go. Are we getting cancelled? Do you want
[5:56] Speaker 1: to edit?
[5:57] Speaker 2: No, we're not getting cancelled. I just think, I don't
[5:59] Speaker 2: know whether people who may listen to this may appreciate this.
[6:03] Speaker 2: I am over being somebody else's babysitter when they're an adult.
[6:10] Speaker 2: Other adults that use me and my brain instead of
[6:15] Speaker 2: using their own, that does my head in. I don't
[6:17] Speaker 2: need to think for you.
[6:18] Speaker 1: Okay. So what I'm hearing is you don't like being
[6:20] Speaker 1: the memory vault. You don't want to be the one
[6:23] Speaker 1: that thinks for them.
[6:25] Speaker 2: I don't want anybody else's mental load anymore. I'm done
[6:29] Speaker 2: with the mental load. I never used to even think
[6:32] Speaker 2: about it. I just did it. But now I've reached
[6:36] Speaker 2: a point in my life where I'm like, I'm done
[6:38] Speaker 2: with this mental load. I'm just not doing it anymore.
[6:41] Speaker 2: It's just everyday stuff. When I say to.
[6:44] Speaker 1: My family, for example. Give us an example.
[6:46] Speaker 2: When I say, what would you like for dinner tonight?
[6:49] Speaker 2: And they go, I don't know. That is the last
[6:53] Speaker 2: thought ever. They give that. Yeah.
[6:55] Speaker 1: And I reckon the women that are listening right now
[6:58] Speaker 1: are going, yes. Yeah. Because it's every day. It's relentless.
[7:03] Speaker 2: Yes. But that's the last thought that my family or
[7:06] Speaker 2: anybody's family give that, apart from the person that has
[7:10] Speaker 2: to cook dinner every night. And I can tell you,
[7:13] Speaker 2: I ask that question probably five nights a week.
[7:16] Speaker 1: So you're still cooking Monday to Friday?
[7:18] Speaker 2: Yes.
[7:19] Speaker 1: Okay. So you're cooking for the family.
[7:21] Speaker 2: Which I like.
[7:21] Speaker 1: Which you love.
[7:22] Speaker 2: I enjoy the cooking.
[7:22] Speaker 1: You love it. Love it. Love it.
[7:24] Speaker 2: But sometimes I would like somebody else to say, hey, Ma,
[7:27] Speaker 2: let's have spaghetti bolognese for dinner tonight. And I'll go, fantastic.
[7:33] Speaker 2: I'm going to make that for you. Because that takes
[7:35] Speaker 2: that mental load off me of having to think.
[7:37] Speaker 1: About what it is. Yeah, exactly about what you've got
[7:39] Speaker 1: to do.
[7:39] Speaker 2: And I know it's my job and blah, blah, blah.
[7:42] Speaker 2: That was just the first thing that came into my head.
[7:43] Speaker 2: But There's other things.
[7:46] Speaker 1: See, Ricardo is now doing all the cooking.
[7:48] Speaker 2: That's wonderful.
[7:49] Speaker 1: Right. So I don't even have that in my brain anymore.
[7:53] Speaker 1: He'll say to me, what do you feel like? I say, mate,
[7:55] Speaker 1: whatever you cook me, just whatever. I'm over it.
[7:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[7:59] Speaker 1: And I've lost my mojo. I actually used to be
[8:01] Speaker 1: a really, really good cook.
[8:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[8:03] Speaker 1: And I was very into it. I'd go get the
[8:06] Speaker 1: beautiful fresh produce. I'd be lining up in the Haberfield
[8:10] Speaker 1: shops for my bread and my ricotta and everything like that.
[8:13] Speaker 1: I just have no desire to cook anymore. Yeah, just
[8:16] Speaker 1: couldn't be asked. That and vacuum the floor. I have
[8:19] Speaker 1: no desire to vacuum anymore.
[8:20] Speaker 2: Oh, did you used to like vacuuming?
[8:21] Speaker 1: Well, it was something that I would do.
[8:23] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[8:24] Speaker 1: And now I get my robo vac to do it.
[8:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. See, that's the other thing. Let's
[8:29] Speaker 2: use vacuuming for an example. If I ask someone in
[8:33] Speaker 2: my house to vacuum the floor, they will 100% vacuum
[8:36] Speaker 2: the floor for me.
[8:37] Speaker 1: Really?
[8:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, like they'll do it.
[8:39] Speaker 1: No probs.
[8:40] Speaker 2: Yep, no probs. Go and grab the vacuum cleaner and
[8:42] Speaker 2: they'll vacuum it. But they wouldn't think to vacuum the floor.
[8:45] Speaker 1: Oh, no, they're not going to think. Oh, mum would
[8:48] Speaker 1: love me to just run the vacuum over.
[8:50] Speaker 2: That mental load of having to vacuum the floor is
[8:53] Speaker 2: on me.
[8:53] Speaker 1: Would never if he saw a dish in the dishwasher
[8:56] Speaker 1: or the sink. I mean, there's things.
[8:57] Speaker 2: That he does do. Like, there's things that he does do. Like,
[9:00] Speaker 2: and he's, like, don't get me wrong, he's a bloody
[9:02] Speaker 2: good man.
[9:03] Speaker 1: Good on you, Nev.
[9:04] Speaker 2: Not hating on Nev.
[9:05] Speaker 1: Not at all. We love our men.
[9:06] Speaker 2: But I just think it's just a position that women
[9:11] Speaker 2: accept and do everything. is all of these little incidental things.
[9:15] Speaker 2: Girl jobs, boy jobs. Incidental things that create a mental load.
[9:19] Speaker 2: And our mental load is so much bigger than any
[9:22] Speaker 2: man's mental load. I, hand on heart, don't think that
[9:27] Speaker 2: Rick worries about the boysies.
[9:29] Speaker 1: As much as I worry about the boysies. And that's
[9:31] Speaker 1: not to say he doesn't love the boysies. God, he's
[9:34] Speaker 1: obsessed with our kids. Yeah. I feel that I have
[9:37] Speaker 1: such a connection with my boysies. I know what they're
[9:39] Speaker 1: thinking and feeling before they're even able to articulate it. Yeah,
[9:42] Speaker 1: that's amazing.
[9:43] Speaker 2: I love that.
[9:44] Speaker 1: And I think to myself, oh, Charlie, what is he doing? Max, oh, Jack.
[9:48] Speaker 1: And Rick will go, well, what are you worried about?
[9:50] Speaker 1: I'm worried about this. He goes, no, they're all right.
[9:53] Speaker 2: No, they're not.
[9:54] Speaker 1: She'll be right, mate.
[9:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. And they probably would be. And we're probably worrying needlessly.
[9:59] Speaker 1: Absolutely. But it's very different mothering, parenting an adult child.
[10:06] Speaker 1: Like you've got to have your boundaries in. I don't
[10:08] Speaker 1: know if you, I mean, it sounds like you've got
[10:10] Speaker 1: boundaries in, but. Oh, yeah, I do.
[10:11] Speaker 2: I definitely do. And yeah, I guess my situation's a
[10:14] Speaker 2: bit different. Noah is Nev's son and my other three
[10:19] Speaker 2: have another dad. So I've talked about being separated and
[10:23] Speaker 2: remarried and blah, blah, blah before. So when I was
[10:26] Speaker 2: raising my older three, it was a very different situation
[10:30] Speaker 2: because if they didn't like what I did or my
[10:34] Speaker 2: boundaries or my rules, they'd just go to their dads.
[10:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.
[10:38] Speaker 2: And there have been times with my boys where I've
[10:42] Speaker 2: been completely disconnected from my boys for periods of time.
[10:45] Speaker 2: And I've had to put up. Really, really, really strong
[10:49] Speaker 2: boundaries to protect myself.
[10:51] Speaker 1: Yes.
[10:52] Speaker 2: Because it's been so incredibly hurtful and really, really difficult.
[10:56] Speaker 2: One of them in particular was really off the rails.
[10:59] Speaker 2: I still had Noah at home and Noah was still
[11:03] Speaker 2: very little. And I had to say, actually, buddy, you
[11:06] Speaker 2: can't live here anymore.
[11:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, wow.
[11:07] Speaker 2: Because I cannot have Noah exposed to that. 100% if
[11:13] Speaker 2: you want to follow these rules.
[11:15] Speaker 1: Yep. Love you.
[11:16] Speaker 2: Love you. You can stay and you can be here
[11:18] Speaker 2: and I'll support you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[11:20] Speaker 2: But if you can't.
[11:21] Speaker 1: But isn't that just tough love? Like isn't that just
[11:24] Speaker 1: saying I love you, want you, but you have to
[11:27] Speaker 1: toe the line. Yeah.
[11:29] Speaker 2: It's hard to watch though.
[11:30] Speaker 1: Oh, and go through. I have no understanding of that.
[11:33] Speaker 1: I can imagine as a mother you want your kids
[11:35] Speaker 1: to be with you, but if their behaviours are such
[11:38] Speaker 1: that it's impacting somebody else.
[11:39] Speaker 2: Yes, and you have no control because the other parent
[11:44] Speaker 2: is allowing those things to happen and doesn't have those boundaries.
[11:49] Speaker 2: So therefore, where are they going to go? They're going
[11:51] Speaker 2: to go where the fun stuff is.
[11:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course.
[11:53] Speaker 2: And they're allowed to do all of that stuff. Like,
[11:55] Speaker 2: I get that. I know why. I mean, as a teenager,
[11:58] Speaker 2: if I had.
[11:58] Speaker 1: Options, I would have done the same thing. Absolutely.
[12:01] Speaker 2: 110%.
[12:02] Speaker 1: Easy straight.
[12:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, would have done the same thing. I guess for
[12:06] Speaker 2: context for this conversation, their father has passed away. So
[12:09] Speaker 2: he passed away 10 years ago now. That has changed
[12:13] Speaker 2: the dynamic and the relationship and all that kind of stuff.
[12:15] Speaker 2: My relationship had already repaired with my boys and I
[12:18] Speaker 2: was seeing them all again and that kind of stuff.
[12:20] Speaker 2: They just had to get over that teenage.
[12:22] Speaker 1: Whir that they do.
[12:24] Speaker 2: I think I'm much better at boundaries because of that.
[12:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, see? See, my boysies, each and every one of
[12:31] Speaker 1: them are completely different.
[12:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[12:33] Speaker 1: So I parent each one differently, even though they're from
[12:37] Speaker 1: the same house.
[12:38] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[12:38] Speaker 1: And I'm now trying to really be a parent that's,
[12:42] Speaker 1: what is it that you want to get from this, Max?
[12:45] Speaker 1: Or Charlie, what choices are you making? Like, are these
[12:48] Speaker 1: the choices? You know, don't forget. trying to prompt them
[12:51] Speaker 1: into being a bit more thinking about things. Because I'm
[12:55] Speaker 1: so impulsive. I grew up impulsive. I would make the
[12:59] Speaker 1: worst mistakes. And it would be like, oh, fuck, what
[13:02] Speaker 1: did I do that for? My mum especially was, once
[13:06] Speaker 1: my father and her split up and, you know, we
[13:08] Speaker 1: were very fractured and stuff, she was in survival. She
[13:11] Speaker 1: just had to survive and we never went without. But
[13:14] Speaker 1: it was tough for her. Yeah. And I don't know
[13:16] Speaker 1: if she had the capacity to work as a mentor.
[13:21] Speaker 1: It was just survival. Yeah. She didn't have it to give,
[13:24] Speaker 1: love her. Sorry, mum, you were great, but, you know,
[13:26] Speaker 1: things were.
[13:26] Speaker 2: Oh, no, but, like, life happens, right? It's just kind
[13:29] Speaker 2: of the way it goes. Darby says, it's quite funny,
[13:32] Speaker 2: she goes, I want Noah's mum. Noah's mum's really cool.
[13:35] Speaker 1: Oh, really?
[13:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm a very different parent now than what
[13:39] Speaker 2: I was. But I had to be strict. I was
[13:43] Speaker 2: the extreme of their dad.
[13:45] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[13:45] Speaker 2: Because I felt like I had to be. They had
[13:49] Speaker 2: this parent over here. And I felt like I had
[13:52] Speaker 2: to be the opposite to that. I probably didn't in
[13:55] Speaker 2: order to them have a balance.
[13:58] Speaker 1: So that other parent was the fun time, give time,
[14:01] Speaker 1: and you were the.
[14:01] Speaker 2: Relax, yeah. Plus also, I felt like I had to
[14:05] Speaker 2: give them a very strong work ethic because.
[14:08] Speaker 1: Okay.
[14:09] Speaker 2: There wasn't that over there. I had to make sure
[14:11] Speaker 2: they went to school, had to make sure they wore
[14:13] Speaker 2: their uniforms. I had to, you know, like all those
[14:15] Speaker 2: kinds of things because over here that wasn't happening. Felt
[14:18] Speaker 2: like I had to be the opposite to that. So...
[14:21] Speaker 2: I wasn't actually the parent that I wanted to be
[14:23] Speaker 2: with them.
[14:23] Speaker 1: Really?
[14:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, because I had to, I felt like I
[14:26] Speaker 2: had to, in order for them to have a balanced childhood,
[14:28] Speaker 2: I had to be this person. So I feel like
[14:32] Speaker 2: with Noah, I have been able to be the parent
[14:35] Speaker 2: that I wanted to be. And also, I've had a
[14:38] Speaker 2: supportive partner.
[14:39] Speaker 1: And what's that? What's that parent been?
[14:41] Speaker 2: That parent is involved, engaged. Because there was abuse issues
[14:47] Speaker 2: with the past parent and we separated when the kids
[14:51] Speaker 2: were quite young, he would isolate me from the kids'
[14:57] Speaker 2: friends and the kids' friends' parents from the school, from everything.
[15:01] Speaker 2: So I wasn't able to be involved in a lot
[15:04] Speaker 2: of that stuff with those kids. And also for my
[15:08] Speaker 2: own safety, I had to be away from that parent.
[15:11] Speaker 2: So if they were there, I couldn't be there. So
[15:15] Speaker 2: I couldn't be involved in that stuff. And I had
[15:18] Speaker 2: to work. I had to work full time. I had
[15:21] Speaker 2: to work hard in order to pay the bills. When
[15:26] Speaker 2: Noah came along, very different situation in that I had
[15:29] Speaker 2: a very supportive partner in Nev. Noah was very much planned.
[15:34] Speaker 2: So I was in a very different financial situation. I
[15:37] Speaker 2: was able to be involved and engaged in Noah's life.
[15:42] Speaker 2: I think it's just very different. And I think because
[15:44] Speaker 2: I've had that supportive partner, I don't have to be
[15:47] Speaker 2: as strict on Noah because I've got the backup.
[15:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.
[15:50] Speaker 2: If something goes wrong, I've got the backup. Also, Noah's
[15:52] Speaker 2: also a very different kid because he's got a different dad.
[15:55] Speaker 2: Noah is just a good kid. He's a bit of
[15:58] Speaker 2: a rule follower, you know, like he's not.
[16:00] Speaker 1: Compliant. I love a compliant child.
[16:03] Speaker 2: He doesn't have a rebellious bone in his body, really.
[16:06] Speaker 2: Like he really doesn't. And if I say no, he goes, okay.
[16:09] Speaker 2: So I don't feel like I have to be that.
[16:12] Speaker 1: You will not. And you're different in your age. Like
[16:15] Speaker 1: your ideas change and your parenting style and you reflect
[16:19] Speaker 1: on things and you go, I did that. I'm not
[16:21] Speaker 1: going to do that next time. I think that's really
[16:23] Speaker 1: important that you evolve as a parent all the time.
[16:26] Speaker 2: And I think my financial position is very different. I
[16:29] Speaker 2: was so broke back then and now I'm financially stable.
[16:34] Speaker 2: I can give the things to Noah that I couldn't
[16:36] Speaker 2: give to those kids. Like I can get a tutor
[16:38] Speaker 2: to support him because he needs help with whatever. I
[16:43] Speaker 2: can afford him to play whatever sport he kind of wanted.
[16:47] Speaker 2: I can give him extracurricular activities. You know, I can
[16:50] Speaker 2: do all of those things. I was a part-time worker,
[16:55] Speaker 2: not a full-time worker. So I could have kids over
[16:57] Speaker 2: for a play date and be involved and can make
[17:01] Speaker 2: connections with his friends' mums and, you know, all that
[17:04] Speaker 2: kind of stuff. I'd get to know his friends, which
[17:07] Speaker 2: I couldn't get to know with.
[17:08] Speaker 1: The other kids. And the other three kids, are they
[17:11] Speaker 1: like resentful of that or like, oh, do they give
[17:13] Speaker 1: you a hard time? It sounds like they're like a joke.
[17:17] Speaker 2: It's a joke. No, I think they get it.
[17:18] Speaker 1: They get it.
[17:19] Speaker 2: They get it.
[17:19] Speaker 1: See, that's great though that they get it.
[17:21] Speaker 2: They get it. Yeah, it's a very, very different situation.
[17:24] Speaker 1: Did it make you the unpopular parent half the time?
[17:27] Speaker 2: In the teenage years with the boys, yeah, which is
[17:30] Speaker 2: kind of why I lost them for a while. Yeah.
[17:33] Speaker 2: It's tough. That's really tough. It was awful. Like, it
[17:35] Speaker 2: was devastating. I hated it. It's the way it was.
[17:39] Speaker 2: And I think I'm very good at boundaries because I
[17:43] Speaker 2: can just switch off because it's a learned behavior. For
[17:46] Speaker 2: my own protection, I just had to do it.
[17:48] Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting, that whole self-protection thing? I never really
[17:53] Speaker 1: used to self-protect myself.
[17:55] Speaker 2: No?
[17:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I did.
[17:57] Speaker 2: Do you now?
[17:58] Speaker 1: I am now quite protective of myself.
[18:01] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. Yeah. How do you do that?
[18:03] Speaker 1: I just talk more to myself about my gut. Like
[18:07] Speaker 1: my gut feeling will be, they're not coming from a
[18:10] Speaker 1: genuine place. You need to be a little bit mindful
[18:13] Speaker 1: about that. And I think also too, that's come with maturity.
[18:17] Speaker 1: As a self-person pleaser, I want to make sure that
[18:21] Speaker 1: I'm pleasing everybody and I wouldn't necessarily listen to my gut.
[18:26] Speaker 1: I think that gut Tells me now quite loudly, hey, listen,
[18:30] Speaker 1: that's not going to be of benefit for you or hey, listen,
[18:33] Speaker 1: I know what you want, but that's not the way
[18:35] Speaker 1: to get it. Yeah. So protect yourself.
[18:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, we were talking before about
[18:41] Speaker 2: how you parent adult children. All my children are adults now.
[18:44] Speaker 2: Noah's 18 even though he's still at school. He's 18.
[18:47] Speaker 2: I am generous because I can afford to be now
[18:50] Speaker 2: with them. Like we go out for dinner, we pay.
[18:53] Speaker 2: You know, like the kids come over, they always take
[18:55] Speaker 2: home bags and bags of food and, you know, all
[18:57] Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, which is lovely.
[18:58] Speaker 1: Care packs. We do care packs. Yeah, absolutely.
[19:00] Speaker 2: I love to be able to do that. But I
[19:03] Speaker 2: do try and allow them to make their own decisions. Yeah.
[19:10] Speaker 2: There have been times where I have stepped in because
[19:12] Speaker 2: I've gone, you actually at the moment with your mental
[19:16] Speaker 2: state at the moment or where you're at, you are
[19:18] Speaker 2: not making a good decision and you actually cannot. You
[19:22] Speaker 2: are not in a position to be able to do
[19:23] Speaker 2: that where I've actually gone right and I've been very direct.
[19:26] Speaker 1: And have they said, mum, pull your head and I'm
[19:28] Speaker 1: doing what I want? Or do they go, okay, well,
[19:31] Speaker 1: I might just sit with that and make a decision
[19:34] Speaker 1: tomorrow about it?
[19:35] Speaker 2: The couple of times that I've done it, it's been accepted.
[19:39] Speaker 2: Because I feel like they've been in a position where
[19:41] Speaker 2: they've been out of control as well and they've needed
[19:43] Speaker 2: that help. But before I've done that step in, there's
[19:47] Speaker 2: been many attempts prior probably to help guide them to
[19:52] Speaker 2: that themselves.
[19:54] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[19:55] Speaker 2: Just watch them getting deeper and deeper and deeper.
[19:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want your kids.
[19:59] Speaker 2: No.
[19:59] Speaker 1: You want them to be living their best lives.
[20:01] Speaker 2: Yeah, you absolutely do. I have another, let's call it strategy,
[20:05] Speaker 2: I guess. If I see them making a mistake, And
[20:10] Speaker 2: I've tried the gentle parenting way.
[20:12] Speaker 1: Let's put that in the car park because I want
[20:14] Speaker 1: to talk about gentle parenting. Go for it.
[20:16] Speaker 2: I have a lot of opinions about it. This is
[20:18] Speaker 2: exactly what I'll say. I'll say it right. I'm just
[20:21] Speaker 2: going to tell you this once.
[20:22] Speaker 1: I'm just going to.
[20:23] Speaker 2: I'm just going to tell you once. I'm going to
[20:26] Speaker 2: say it and then you decide what you do with it.
[20:29] Speaker 2: You do it. I'll support you. You don't do it.
[20:31] Speaker 2: I'll support you. You love them, I love them. You
[20:33] Speaker 2: hate them, I hate them. You know, like I'm on board.
[20:35] Speaker 1: With whatever you do. I'm ready to put the tires down.
[20:37] Speaker 2: But I actually just have to tell you this because
[20:40] Speaker 2: from an outsider looking in, what you are doing is really.
[20:44] Speaker 1: You're going to blow your life up.
[20:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So I have done that a couple of times.
[20:50] Speaker 1: Has that been met with? It's been met.
[20:53] Speaker 2: With the intention of which I intend it to be,
[20:55] Speaker 2: which has been great. But it has the potential to go.
[20:59] Speaker 1: Oh, I think it was when you're trying to advise. Yeah.
[21:02] Speaker 1: Because it could come across. F you.
[21:05] Speaker 2: I'm out of here. See you later. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[21:07] Speaker 1: Because it can come across as you being meddling. Yeah.
[21:10] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[21:10] Speaker 1: Mum, I'm doing my own thing. Let me go. I'm fine. Yeah.
[21:13] Speaker 2: But sometimes you just watch it and you go, that's
[21:15] Speaker 2: a train crash about to happen and you need to stop.
[21:21] Speaker 2: And it's really hard to watch. It's hard to watch
[21:24] Speaker 2: and it's hard to let them do it. But they're
[21:25] Speaker 2: adults and If they want to do that, then you
[21:28] Speaker 2: just have to let them do it and that's really,
[21:30] Speaker 2: really difficult.
[21:31] Speaker 1: I always talk about what's your plan B.
[21:33] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's a good one too.
[21:35] Speaker 1: They really respond to that and I'll go, yeah, that's great,
[21:38] Speaker 1: but what's your plan B?
[21:39] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
[21:40] Speaker 1: So what's your backup plan?
[21:42] Speaker 2: Do they respond well to that?
[21:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, look, really, really well. Charlie has a companion cat
[21:47] Speaker 1: and his name is Salem. That cat has been really, really,
[21:51] Speaker 1: really good for Charlie. Charlie has quite bad anxiety and
[21:55] Speaker 1: he gets very anxious about things. And Salem got quite unwell. Now,
[22:00] Speaker 1: Charlie works full time, pays rent, all that, living his
[22:04] Speaker 1: best life. The vet said that the operation that Salem
[22:07] Speaker 1: needed was quite expensive.
[22:09] Speaker 2: Yes.
[22:10] Speaker 1: Okay. And I had to be gentle. Like, you've got
[22:12] Speaker 1: to be really careful with your wording because just one
[22:15] Speaker 1: word incorrect and it fucking blows everything up.
[22:17] Speaker 2: Okay.
[22:18] Speaker 1: And I said to him, okay, so Salem needs an operation.
[22:21] Speaker 1: I understand that. And it's quite a severe operation. He's
[22:25] Speaker 1: come off something and jumped down and broken a bit
[22:27] Speaker 1: of his hip. which they needed to go in and
[22:29] Speaker 1: shave off and do all those bits and pieces. It
[22:32] Speaker 1: was very expensive. And I said to him, okay, so
[22:35] Speaker 1: what's the cost? He told me what the cost was,
[22:38] Speaker 1: what procedure was, long-term, what it was going to look like.
[22:42] Speaker 1: And I said to him, I just want to ask you,
[22:44] Speaker 1: if Salem wasn't going to fully recover from this, what
[22:49] Speaker 1: are your choices? And he goes, are you asking me
[22:52] Speaker 1: if I'm going to put them down? I said, you
[22:54] Speaker 1: tell me what that looks like. He goes, mum. I
[22:58] Speaker 1: need you to know that I would never have Salem
[23:00] Speaker 1: in pain, even that I love him. Absolutely. I would never,
[23:05] Speaker 1: ever want him to be in pain. And of course,
[23:08] Speaker 1: I would make sure that he was put to sleep
[23:11] Speaker 1: in a humane way so that he could, yeah. And
[23:14] Speaker 1: I thought at that stage, that's fantastic. He's thought that
[23:18] Speaker 1: process instead of, oh, that's great. I'll just pay X
[23:21] Speaker 1: amount of dollars.
[23:21] Speaker 2: And everything will be fine.
[23:22] Speaker 1: It's going to be fine. No problems. He'd thought about
[23:24] Speaker 1: that plan B. Yeah.
[23:26] Speaker 2: I'm going to adopt that. What's your plan B?
[23:28] Speaker 1: Yeah. Love a plan B.
[23:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, because I had never really thought about that before. But, yeah,
[23:32] Speaker 2: I think that's a really good strategy too.
[23:34] Speaker 1: And it gets them thinking.
[23:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, it does.
[23:37] Speaker 1: And it's not you going, oh, mate, you fucking can't
[23:40] Speaker 1: do that. Like, you just cannot do that.
[23:43] Speaker 2: Well, you can't do that.
[23:44] Speaker 1: No.
[23:44] Speaker 2: Because they're adults. You can't do that. No. 100% can't
[23:47] Speaker 2: do that.
[23:48] Speaker 1: And I'm all in about a conversation. And Rick raising
[23:51] Speaker 1: the boysies, he was always, no, can't do that.
[23:54] Speaker 2: No.
[23:55] Speaker 1: And I would be like, yeah, but enter into the conversation.
[23:58] Speaker 1: Explain why.
[23:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[23:59] Speaker 1: Because it would do this, this and this. Don't just
[24:02] Speaker 1: give them a, no, that's not happening. Yeah. You've got
[24:04] Speaker 1: to have a conversation. People want to engage. And I
[24:07] Speaker 1: think you get a better response.
[24:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, 100% you do. So what have we learnt from
[24:11] Speaker 2: this little episode?
[24:13] Speaker 1: We've learnt that, you know what, we did okay raising
[24:16] Speaker 1: our kids. Yeah, we did. We worked hard at trying
[24:19] Speaker 1: to change things for them in a really positive way. Yeah.
[24:23] Speaker 1: And I think it's hard and I think we've done
[24:25] Speaker 1: a bloody good job. Yeah, it is.
[24:27] Speaker 2: Really difficult and I think if you are invested and
[24:31] Speaker 2: if you're even thinking about this stuff, that in itself
[24:34] Speaker 2: just makes you a good parent.
[24:36] Speaker 1: Oh, and look, This is our first time in this
[24:38] Speaker 1: world being a parent, being a human. Yeah. We're all
[24:41] Speaker 1: going to make mistakes. And it's such a new generation.
[24:44] Speaker 2: Like these guys are so different to us and the
[24:48] Speaker 2: next generation are going to be so different again that
[24:51] Speaker 2: I think our kids are going to do things so
[24:54] Speaker 2: completely different.
[24:55] Speaker 1: Absolutely.
[24:56] Speaker 2: Like gentle parenting.
[24:57] Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, don't even get me started on that. Because
[25:00] Speaker 1: this could be a whole bloody episode on its own,
[25:03] Speaker 1: let me just tell you quietly.
[25:05] Speaker 2: I know.
[25:05] Speaker 1: I know.
[25:06] Speaker 2: I think it's ridiculous.
[25:07] Speaker 1: So how were you raised as a child?
[25:10] Speaker 2: I would say strict. There was rules. There was rights
[25:15] Speaker 2: and wrongs. We were a very Catholic family.
[25:18] Speaker 1: Right.
[25:18] Speaker 2: So we were growing up with those morals. And my
[25:23] Speaker 2: parents were very much of the generation, like they're baby boomers.
[25:27] Speaker 2: I would say my parents were baby boomers. Not a
[25:29] Speaker 2: lot of, I guess, emotion. Like I would never be
[25:32] Speaker 2: critical of my parents' parenting ever. Absolutely. It's very, very
[25:37] Speaker 2: different to how I have parented my kids.
[25:40] Speaker 1: But I think that's normal though. I think every generation,
[25:43] Speaker 1: they want to do something different. Their parenting styles. Like
[25:47] Speaker 1: I know what my mum did. I wanted to do
[25:50] Speaker 1: something different. Yeah.
[25:51] Speaker 2: I am a good moral person with great values. I've
[25:57] Speaker 2: got lovely children that have great values and morals as well.
[26:01] Speaker 2: So my parents did, I think they did a great job.
[26:04] Speaker 1: Great job.
[26:05] Speaker 2: Yeah. You can always be critical looking back on somebody else, right?
[26:09] Speaker 1: Absolutely. On what they did.
[26:11] Speaker 2: But then when you look at the holistic picture, I mean,
[26:14] Speaker 2: I could list probably a million different things that I
[26:16] Speaker 2: would do differently to how my parents raised me. But
[26:20] Speaker 2: when you look at the big picture, they got the
[26:21] Speaker 2: same outcome as I've got. They just took a different
[26:24] Speaker 2: road because they had different influences and Had a different
[26:29] Speaker 2: parenting themselves.
[26:31] Speaker 1: But you're a good human with great morals. Exactly.
[26:33] Speaker 2: So really.
[26:34] Speaker 1: Hardworking.
[26:34] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[26:35] Speaker 1: They've instilled all of that into you. That's wonderful.
[26:38] Speaker 2: And if gentle parenting gets that same outcome, then.
[26:42] Speaker 1: Who are we to judge?
[26:43] Speaker 2: Who are we to judge? Personally, not a fan.
[26:46] Speaker 1: I just get sick of people putting labels on parenting.
[26:49] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
[26:50] Speaker 1: Gentle parenting. Yeah.
[26:51] Speaker 2: I think sometimes you just have to say, no, that's
[26:54] Speaker 2: not appropriate. Don't do that. Don't touch that. You're going
[26:58] Speaker 2: to break your neck. Don't do that. Gentle parenting, I think,
[27:01] Speaker 2: in my opinion, they wouldn't do that. But I think
[27:05] Speaker 2: sometimes that's just called for.
[27:06] Speaker 1: I get really frustrated when I hear parents go to
[27:09] Speaker 1: a child. please don't walk towards the road.
[27:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[27:14] Speaker 1: I just can't stand that.
[27:15] Speaker 2: I find that frustrating as well.
[27:16] Speaker 1: My kids never knew where my arm ended and their
[27:20] Speaker 1: hand began.
[27:21] Speaker 2: Because you always had a hold of it.
[27:22] Speaker 1: They were on me, touching me, whatever. And if they
[27:25] Speaker 1: were in danger, it would be, mate, no, you can't
[27:28] Speaker 1: do that.
[27:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, I might as well just do it myself.
[27:31] Speaker 1: See, when Max was born and I went to the
[27:33] Speaker 1: Plunkett nurse or Caratani nurse, she said to me, don't
[27:36] Speaker 1: raise him useless. I've raised all my kids useless. Oh,
[27:39] Speaker 1: have you? Because I'm a control freak. I hate things
[27:42] Speaker 1: lying around. Yeah. I mean, the clothes, the bedrooms, that's fine,
[27:46] Speaker 1: but no, useless.
[27:47] Speaker 2: I think that's why my kids call me a strict parent,
[27:50] Speaker 2: because they had no choice but to do that. I
[27:53] Speaker 2: had three little kids, a very unsupportive partner, and then
[27:56] Speaker 2: separated and on my own for a fairly significant amount
[28:00] Speaker 2: of time before Nev moved in and, you know, we
[28:03] Speaker 2: got married and had no blah, blah, blah. And I
[28:04] Speaker 2: was broke as a badger.
[28:05] Speaker 1: You needed to survive and have them toe the line.
[28:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, and they did. They 100% did. Like if I said,
[28:12] Speaker 2: pick that up, they would pick it up. If I said,
[28:14] Speaker 2: for example, if we ever went out for dinner, which
[28:17] Speaker 2: we very rarely did, but if we went out for dinner,
[28:19] Speaker 2: those kids sat, they used their knives and forks, they
[28:23] Speaker 2: used their manners, they did all... All the things that
[28:25] Speaker 2: they were supposed to. My kids were not the ones
[28:27] Speaker 2: that were running around the table.
[28:28] Speaker 1: No, no. And that drives me insane.
[28:31] Speaker 2: And they always said pleases and thank yous.
[28:32] Speaker 1: Yes, very important.
[28:33] Speaker 2: You know, they knew their place. If I was talking
[28:35] Speaker 2: to another parent, they weren't going, mum, mum, mum, mum, mum.
[28:38] Speaker 2: They were standing there and they were waiting until I
[28:40] Speaker 2: finished that conversation. Because they knew if they didn't.
[28:44] Speaker 1: I would have gone, wait. Yeah, and I think people
[28:47] Speaker 1: now are raising their kids for adult conversations.
[28:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[28:51] Speaker 1: I don't like that. I want my kids, or they did,
[28:53] Speaker 1: were raised with kids. They weren't raised with adults, with
[28:56] Speaker 1: adult conversations and little opinions. We'd have conversations about topics,
[29:00] Speaker 1: but there wouldn't be any of no.
[29:03] Speaker 2: And if I said no, the answer was no.
[29:05] Speaker 1: Exactly right.
[29:06] Speaker 2: And they accepted that, I think because I was consistent.
[29:10] Speaker 2: So if I said no, I meant no and I
[29:12] Speaker 2: followed through and I did that. It was just kind
[29:14] Speaker 2: of what it was. It was just how I operated.
[29:17] Speaker 2: But I had to. Yeah.
[29:18] Speaker 1: God, yes. You're in survival.
[29:19] Speaker 2: So that's what makes me strict, I think.
[29:22] Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like Noah's got the better end of
[29:24] Speaker 1: the stick. Noah's got a better parenting. Different.
[29:27] Speaker 2: I would say better, purely for situational reasons. Absolutely.
[29:29] Speaker 1: Can't help that.
[29:31] Speaker 2: Anyway, yeah. I've learned heaps. Anyway, that's it.
[29:33] Speaker 1: So what are you advising the peoples about today, the wingers?
[29:37] Speaker 1: What are you going to give them as their challenge?
[29:39] Speaker 2: I've thought of a challenge. Should you choose to accept it?
[29:41] Speaker 2: because you don't have to. You can tell me to
[29:43] Speaker 2: get stuffed if you like. is to forgive yourself for
[29:48] Speaker 2: the things that maybe you have been criticising yourself for
[29:52] Speaker 2: when it comes to your parenting style.
[29:55] Speaker 1: Oh, so do you think that we actually give ourselves
[29:57] Speaker 1: a hard time on our parenting?
[29:59] Speaker 2: I do. I think if we look back and reflect
[30:01] Speaker 2: and we have regrets... And we maybe think, oh, I
[30:04] Speaker 2: could have done that better. Maybe I could have parented better.
[30:07] Speaker 2: I could have done things differently. Or we've done something
[30:11] Speaker 2: maybe with our kids that we have regrets about. I
[30:15] Speaker 2: think everybody probably has some regrets when it comes to
[30:18] Speaker 2: parenting in their kids. And I think maybe let's move on.
[30:21] Speaker 1: I think the shame, the parenting shame is big.
[30:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think regret and the shame is the same thing.
[30:28] Speaker 1: Because I, hand on heart, think I tried my absolute
[30:31] Speaker 1: guts out. I never got it right all of the time,
[30:34] Speaker 1: but I still tried.
[30:35] Speaker 2: But you did get it right because you look at
[30:37] Speaker 2: the whole picture and you've got great boys, right?
[30:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got great boys.
[30:40] Speaker 2: Maybe we just stop doing that.
[30:43] Speaker 1: And I think you have to because you could be
[30:45] Speaker 1: beating yourself up over the most trivial things and at
[30:48] Speaker 1: the end of the day, we are all humans trying
[30:51] Speaker 1: our very best and we need to give ourselves a
[30:53] Speaker 1: bloody break.
[30:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
[30:55] Speaker 1: So I reckon that's a great challenge. Yeah. The challenge is?
[30:59] Speaker 2: Forgive yourself.
[31:00] Speaker 1: Just to say you're okay. You're okay. You've done okay.
[31:03] Speaker 2: It's a move on.
[31:03] Speaker 1: Well done. I like it.
[31:05] Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you very much.
[31:06] Speaker 1: Giving yourself permission. Permission.
[31:07] Speaker 2: Okay.
[31:07] Speaker 1: Okay.
[31:08] Speaker 2: Episode nine.
[31:09] Speaker 1: I'm really passionate about this one because I bloody love clothes.
[31:14] Speaker 1: I love fashion. I love all things fashion. Yes.
[31:18] Speaker 2: So next week we're going to talk about fashion in
[31:20] Speaker 2: your 50s.
[31:21] Speaker 1: Can't wait. I'm so excited.
[31:23] Speaker 2: See you next week.

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