# 10.) Beyond The Cameras: Reality TV, Blended Families, & Hard Truths With Jess Cimato and Erica Rose

An episode of [Love, Darlene: Stepmom Life & Blended Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/6802500786), 19 Oct 2026, 55 min.

Audio: https://api.riverside.com/hosting-analytics/media/1e2b583b7029d1f67a8380af66a13457ad688433c5e8af03cc4518cbd9778cb6/eyJlcGlzb2RlSWQiOiI1MTI0MTEyNy0yZGRlLTQ0MDEtODhmYi1iMDMwNWVlMjEyNDciLCJwb2RjYXN0SWQiOiJiZjFlY2JiNS0zNDFmLTRhNGQtOWZhNy0zMGEzMjc4NmEyZDkiLCJhY2NvdW50SWQiOiI2YTc3NmExYzllNjAxZDY2OTQzOTY2NTMiLCJwYXRoIjoibWVkaWEvY2xpcHMvNmFkNjYwYjkyMTA5NjhjYThiMjQ2N2UxL2RhcmxlbmUtc3Bhcmtzcy1zdHVkaW8tMjAyNi0xMC0xOV9fMjAtMzAtNy5tcDMifQ==.mp3

You may recognize them from VH1's You're Cut Off! or Bravo's Below Deck Sailing Yacht, but there's so much more to Jess Cimato and Erica Rose Sanders than what you've seen on television! With 16 years of friendship between them, these two have experienced reality TV, personal growth, marriage, motherhood, and some unexpected chapters along the way. This week, they're pulling up a chair at the kitchen table for a conversation that goes well beyond the cameras. Jess shares her experience navigating life as a newly married stepmom, while Erica brings her perspective as a family-law attorney. Together, we unpack the realities of blended families, co-parenting, boundaries, adult conflict, and what it really means to put children first. We also talk about friendship, public perception, the importance of extending grace, and why healthy relationships require more than simply being right. And yes, we get into a little reality TV along the way! 👀 Whether you're a biological parent, stepparent, or simply someone learning to navigate complicated relationships, there's something in this conversation for you. Pull up a chair. The kitchen table is open! 💗 🎙️ Love, Darlene | New episodes every Monday Connect with Jess: @jesscimato Connect with Erica Rose: @ericatherose @slayingdownthelaw @rosesanderslaw

## Transcript

speaker-0: Hey girl, welcome to Love Darlene. I am so glad that you're here. This is where we have the real conversations about stepmom life and blended families. You know, the beautiful, the complicated, ugh, the so uncomfortable, and everything else in between. We're gonna laugh, we're gonna cry, but we're gonna learn. We're gonna look at things from different perspectives, and sometimes We might have to lovingly call ourselves out too. So if you've ever thought, somebody, please tell me that I am not the only one, you're exactly where you need to be, because girl, we've got some things to talk about. Hey y'all, welcome back to Love Darlene, where we pull up a chair and have the conversations that sometimes make us uncomfortable and remind each other that we're not navigating this thing called life alone. Now, today's conversation is a little different, and I'm truly excited about it. I'm joined by two women who have known each other for 16 years. You may recognize them from VH1's You're Cut Off or Bravo's Below Deck Sailing Yacht. They've even hosted a podcast together called Cutting Loose. But today we're going beyond reality television. We're talking friendship, marriage, blended families, and what happens when real life looks a whole lot different from what people see on television. Jess Samato and Erica, welcome to the kitchen table.
speaker-2: Thank you
speaker-1: Thank you for having us.
speaker-0: Yeah. I'm so excited to have you guys. It's such an honor. I'm just beside myself. but before we start, let's just tell the viewers like who you guys are on screen and off screen and where you guys are in your lives right now.
speaker-2: Chescu goes first.
speaker-1: Yeah. so who I am on screen is pretty much very accurate of who I am off of screen. I'm a very black and white person. what I mean by that is with me, like if there is a gray area, I'm speaking it out loud. I really hold no hunches. but but I'm a very fair person in like on screen and off screen and You know, I'm a nurse, I am a stepmom, I'm a wife. So there's two totally different sides to me.
speaker-0: Love it. Okay, Erica.
speaker-2: Almost like she's a Gemini, but so my husband's a Gemini. Sometimes I feel like they're like, anyway. so hey girl, it was so good. It's so good to meet you. I'm so grateful at Jess for bringing us all three together. And I don't even know what to say about myself, truly. If I always say if someone wants to know more about me, they can Google me. Literally. Like actually though. Sometimes I wonder what I'm doing if I ask my Googly eye to. See if he's current. I'm reading this book called The Laws of Human Nature. But I think that's the best thing I could use. I haven't opened it yet, but I ordered it. So that counts 'cause it's like I'm I'm absorbing in the energy of it like next to me right now. But I think that's the best way that I could describe myself.
speaker-0: Okay. Well I love it. But like aren't you practicing family law too?
speaker-2: I left that to I had to get I actually do mass tort litigation. So I was doing family law for like a while, but then I moved on to other things 'cause I like to keep it going. My husband and I have a law firm together called the Rose Sanders Law Firm, PLLC down here. It's all across Texas, so it's not just Houston. All across Texas. and we collaborate with my good friend of mine in LA. She's a l a California attorney, but we're all across Texas. we're based in Houston. Our office is right next door to my favorite Joel Osteen at Lakewood Church. Literally, it brings us the best energy. and yeah, I'm married. I'm a mom. My daughters are eight and ten, which I'm loving this era. I love it. And at the same time, not when they assault each other and on the highway. It's that's why it's exhaust. It's like a fun moment. They're both on competitive cheerleading. Anyways, I'm gonna move on because I could talk about my kids for like this whole time and like y'all can keep up with my kids and me on Instagram. And I don't miss that. But yeah, I could talk talk about my kids like all day.
speaker-0: How long have you been practicing law?
speaker-2: Nine years.
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-2: I'm excited 'cause nine years is like a really good number in numerology, so I'm like, yes.
speaker-0: Yes, it is. It's really
speaker-2: Wow.
speaker-0: I'm so excited. Thank y'all. Okay, so you two have known each other for sixteen years. How did that friendship develop and what has kept you two connected?
speaker-2: Okay, girl, you keep you tell the story 'cause she actually hated me at first and I told her we were best friends waiting to happen.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Well, yeah, we we met originally on the show You're cut off on VH One. and we were just completely opposite at first glance. And as you can see, we're very we're very different people. But sometimes opposites attract. but but Erica's heart's very pure. So, you know, I I'm I'm attracted to people.
speaker-2: With yours is too pure finally. I'm what? Yours heart's actually really pure too. You just had a top you were young when you've been through a lot, so you had to tap shall it on you.
speaker-1: Yes, definitely. So yeah, and I'm I have that whole like Italian jersey stereotype thing that I like keep alive and wear as like a badge of honor. So, you know, meeting this like blonde, blue eyed Texan, I was like, Stay away.
speaker-0: Ha ha ha.
speaker-2: We like left. We went to like we got with the night, we really bonded in my mind. She wasn't here for it. Was when we went camping. And my daughter Aspen does not believe me. And I'm like, girl, you can w like my kids. It's annoying because you have to watch it on like YouTube streaming. I don't know. So like Aspen, like, she's watched our below deck episode and she loved that for us. So has my husband. And he's like, it's hard to w I understand why he didn't realize he knows Jess, but he didn't realize it was the same her that was on your cutoff because First of all, like I don't know if y'all can have someone el else to watch it, but it I watched them some days like I did before on like YouTube streaming. But like it's boring for my kids to watch it. It was like recorded from someone's cell phone. Like I don't know. So Aspen doesn't believe me that we had to go camping. Girl, tell her about that time. I had fun, but they were all freaking out.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's just a lot of different personalities in a campground with no like, you know, ba with all these women with no basic survival instincts, just drinking and wanting to fight each other. So a nightmare.
speaker-0: So then how did you guys like build that connection? Was was it is a situation that happened? And you're like, I like this girl.
speaker-2: She needs to tell that story 'cause I was already friends with her in my mind when we were there. She just didn't
speaker-1: Well, I think it comes down to like almost like trauma bonding. After being on TV, you experience a different a a whole different world. You're you're open to horrible criticism from people that that have never met you. They're they're come they're condensing three or four months of filming into 60 minutes of TV time and highlighting all the drama. And that really leaves you vulnerable to the the viewers. And they're Very abusive and they're very invasive. And while you do sign up for that, sometimes it's hard to hear the opinions of people that you don't know and they're so strong on their opinions. She was also on The Bachelor. So I think like having somebody that has been through this and is going through it with me and understands what it's like to be ridiculed by some and then loved by others, and then having her fans hate me and my fans hate her. You know, it was it was just something we connected on.
speaker-2: Yeah, I guess that is what she's saying makes sense now. Like I didn't read the shit going down because I was in law. I didn't have time for that. But and back then it wasn't you had to like go seek it out back then. Like you know what I mean? but yeah, I guess when she was saying like her fan tatomy and vice versa, that could make sense because at this I didn't read the comments actually though, 'cause I just didn't. But we were really different back then. But I s like I said, I knew we'd be friends. The truth is she had some toxicas her side back then. We're not calling anyone out. We were all going through different things and Jess was going through her own journey. And, you know, we were not like we are we're her and I were both authentic, but like when we were on our own with our life coach is when we are both the most authentic, I think. Like that's when I rewatched it as a grown up. Like I wasn't grown back then. I read we watched it and I saw Jess's like private sessions with the life coach, Laura Barron, in a different light. But I could tell there was a kind hearted side to her. And I knew she had been through something really hard. and so I just gave her a lot of grace. She didn't seem mean spirited. I can pick up energy fields. She wasn't mean. She was just you know, chaotic in a happy way that was funny to me. And
speaker-1: I can a happy way.
speaker-2: mean. It's just different. So I didn't really mind however she was feeling.
speaker-0: So what I'm gathering is you, Erica, didn't really pay a whole lot of attention to the comments and stuff on social media. Is that accurate?
speaker-2: Accurate because it wasn't like we didn't have Instagram yet, right, girl? So it wasn't like
speaker-1: We did. We did have Instagram. It was the beginning.
speaker-2: I wasn't even on it yet, so that's okay. But they weren't like hating on me. I don't they it wasn't as aggressive, I would say. Who knows?
speaker-0: Okay, so then so Jess, you read the comments and everything online and like you said it was people were brutal. What have people assumed about you that could be further from the truth?
speaker-1: For me, I mean, if we're talking about back in 2010 on that, people just assumed that I was. I mean, in fairness to the viewers, the show was called You're Cut Off. So it's highlighting nine girls who are supposedly living off of their parents and, you know, or their husbands in some instances, and not working and being spoiled princesses. So I can understand how that's interpreted.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: But I think people just thought I was like a reckless, wild, unmanageable individual who had no like morality whatsoever and that I really could care less about anybody around me or how my actions affected other people. But you know, that was really not the truth. I'm I I care too much.
speaker-0: How do you view yourself now in regards to like comments? Cause I'm sure people still comment on things years later. Do you care as much?
speaker-1: So I well using below deck, we both Eric and I were on two seasons of Below Deck. and with that came comments. And surprisingly enough, the world was pretty kind to me on both seasons. Yeah. I think people liked my stance. I think that I came off reasonable, even though a tad bit aggressive. They felt that I was witty. And I was like, my God, thank God they didn't hate me. Because watching it, I hated myself. I was like, my God. Yes, I I was like, just please get off the screen. Like I hated hearing my voice. I hated my my dramatizations of everything. So I was very critical of myself. So I was like bracing for impact, but Surprisingly, people were pretty kind to me. So of course you get a couple of people who are like, Who is this shithead? Get her out of here. But you know, they they were majority good comics.
speaker-0: People really do, regardless of what they may put out there, they do love honesty. And they love people who are brutally honest because we have so we're surrounded by so many people who just wanna like, no, you're so great. You're this, you're that. Like, no, call that out. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Okay, so let's kind of talk about motherhood for you, Jess. Okay. you and I first connected on Instagram and I we were just talking about like the stepmom experience and the things that come with it and You know, now you're newly married. I did see that on Instagram. So congratulations. Thank you. and now you're truly navigating the blended family life. So what has been the biggest adjustment to becoming a stepmom?
speaker-1: I think the biggest adjustment for me is kind of just like finding my footing in an already perfectly scaped world. So my husband, you know, he has been single for six years. And, you know, him not ever having somebody be in his life as a full-time partner, he adapted to being a single father. And his routines were concrete and everything was just so in place. And even the relationships with his ex, they had like this, however, you want if you want to use the word cohesive or just a mutual understanding for how things go, everything was already in place. And then I came in, and it was like there was an adjustment all around on the kid's end, on his ex's end, on his end and my end, not having any children of my own, figuring out what is appropriate, what's not appropriate. Do I sit back? Do I speak up? And and again, just, you know, reflecting back and saying like I'm a very open, honest person, it's hard for me to do that. So when I see something happening, I'm like, wait, hold up, hold up, hold up. We're that's not happening here. And I I kind of battled with, you know, is this my place? Is this not my place?
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-2: Here for her journey. When y'all are done, I'm gonna make a testament that she won't even remember about her like manifesting this for herself.
speaker-0: She did. I don't remember. So so Jess, when you talked about like it was an adjustment for everybody, who do you think had the hardest adjustment? Like, you know, we talk about the kids and it's a new routine, a new kind of shift for them. Was it harder for them or do you think it was the hardest for?
speaker-1: I think it may I I I want to say it was harder for the kids, but I feel like again, I it's hard for me to gauge because I have nothing to reference it off of, like no prior experiences, but just I I thought that they were going to have the most difficult time adjusting, but I think in retrospect it was probably me who had the most difficult time adjusting, you know, getting used to you know. the kids having spring break and them being home with me for s you know, five days straight with no, yeah, and my husband's at work and they are just chaotic. I it was like, I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. Like it was it was very challenging for for me, you know, trying to navigate that aspect. I was like, Jesus take the wheel. I don't know what to do at all.
speaker-0: Right, right. So what do you wish someone would have told you before you became a stepmom?
speaker-1: I think I wish somebody would have told me, there's no book, there's no rule book, there is no detailed directions to follow. And it's really a case by case basis, and just go in and observe everything. And you know, don't don't be afraid to to speak up because speaking up sometimes makes the situation better.
speaker-0: Right. I a hundred percent agree with you. Like a lot of my viewers struggle to speak up. And I was one of those a few years ago because you don't want to cause issues already in a dynamic that was existing before you, but also you're being brought into this dynamic. And so if you don't speak up for yourself, who else is?
speaker-1: That's right. It's a hundred percent right.
speaker-2: Like how old are your k your kids? I don't like to say step kids like all the bonus bon I my friend Kayla says bonus mom. But anyway, how darling and you too, like when you became the bonus mom or met the kids, how old were they?
speaker-1: Four and six.
speaker-2: That's such a age. How how are they like six and eight now? Get ready for eight and ten. But Darlene, how old are yours?
speaker-0: So I have twin bo so when I met my husband, I have twin boys. So they were four when I met him and his daughter was seven.
speaker-2: no. It is the do my friends tell me the challenges. That's why I have like friends that are you know, and they say the challenges is the girls when they're not when like a four year old girl, that's beautiful. They say it's the girls get sassy like once they turn I don't know, every kid's different, but like the twin boys, I was like, I love that for you and then I hear there's a girl and I'm not I'm not trying to pick and choose, but I'm saying like I always think a big challenge and a beautiful challenge would be I'm not I'm not a boy mom and but I think my friends that do a great job raising sons is beautiful because You're teaching them how to treat a woman right, you know? That's ri that I wouldn't know how to do that. So that's amazing. Yeah.
speaker-0: And we were very fortunate because they were so young. So she was the only child and then my boys, I didn't have any other kids outside of them. So they immediately called her s big sister. She said those were her little brothers. And we we truly blended our family very quickly because of I think because of how young they were.
speaker-1: Well, it's
speaker-2: Yeah. It's like that. for sure, even in family law. But honestly, the work I did in family law was mostly it was too sad for me and that's why I got out of it. I'll do divorces if there's no f if there's no kids involved, but and with those assets, I'll divide that up easily. But I didn't like dealing with CPS. Not about me, but I'm saying like I did it in a good way. My client got custody of his kids because they CPS wasn't called on him, it was called on his baby mama.
speaker-0: So I'm so glad you brought this up because you were the next person I was gonna ask the question to when it comes to what you saw in your in your situations when you were practicing. Because a lot of a lot of stepmoms see we call them biomoms who are very high conflict and are always trying to withhold the kids or make it difficult for dad. What did you see a lot when you were dealing with these? Co parenting divorce situations.
speaker-2: I will say my two favorite clients, I got in joint custody, but yeah, I became friends with this lawyer after the fact because she was like all th she was thinking she was gonna slay down the law with me in court just because she was board certified, but I did see exactly what you're saying about. You know what I mean? And I didn't like it. I'll be on the side of justice no matter what. And my male clients seemed to respect me better for some reason. But my female clients would respect Charles better. And so it would be like we were a good team that way. I don't think it's ever I think everyone and also the Texas family law courts, they just care about the best interests of the kids. And that's all I cared about. But things as a I am a mother and so n I none of my clients were doing the bad things. Then they got fired if it was them. Anyways, they weren't doing that. But I'm saying at one time I represented a toxic male, literally, that I went to middle school with. And he only wanted Charles to represent him and Chuck was like busy with the car accident case that day. And but other than that, like I just got out of that industry because my I did my time. You know what I'm saying? Like I served this I went with lots of law. And it too sad for me sometimes. Like you were talking about the toxicness. I can't I can't fix everyone else. And my clients, I they were good. But I'm d you can you can pick and choose your clients when you win private practice. Hey babe, do you have anything to add? Well you can ask the same questions.
speaker-0: Yeah, like, you know, a lot of my platform are for step like step parents, particularly step moms. And so we see a lot of situations where mom is being super difficult and making things hard for dad and the stepmom. And so, like, what did you see that maybe could be advice to step parents in situations like that or tips to parents who are dealing with a co parent that is difficult?
speaker-2: I mean, like if you're a step it depends on what age that you get in with the child, you know, because like a lot of step parents, they're expected to, you know, help out with the kids, but have h help out and like be a father of the kids, but when it's discipline time, you know, they're not gonna let the stepdad really do anything. So you know it just comes down to having you have to have an agreement on discipline. You have to have an agreement. And
speaker-1: But that's
speaker-2: then I've seen a lot of like moms getting very jealous. You know, then like they bring then they wanna bring a lawsuit. And the as a lawyer you're not. I've seen that. I've seen like they get pissed off when the man brings another woman when the r a man brings another woman in. All ki all kinds of shenanigans.
speaker-0: Okay. Any tips for us step moms out there? Any tips for the stepmoms out there that are dealing with this, maybe in court or getting ready to do with this. Check out the
speaker-2: Take out their words and say both.
speaker-0: word step. Sorry. No. Bonus parents.
speaker-2: Bonus, bonus.
speaker-0: Because you know, because online just can attribute to this. Even reading my comments, people are just like, You're just a stepmom or you're just the that
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: dad sleeps with. You are no significant to these kids, whatever. Like people are nasty when it comes to stepmoms. And it's that's why I am passionate about this, because we deal with a lot.
speaker-2: They're just jealous, number one.
speaker-0: Can I ask you both is it? Ask you both the question then does the do the courts like that the kids have a good relationship with their bonus parents or do they not care?
speaker-2: No, they care in Texas. I can't we can't speak for other states. I mean sometimes
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-2: when one of the parents hopped into a relationship during the divorce. Well we don't do that in Texas. There that's illegal here. So I don't know. I don't know who's up. If our clients is doing that, then they're vacant. That's why We never had any five Yeah. So none of them. I haven't. Anyways, how is it like is it different where y'all live?
speaker-0: I th from what I have dealt with personally, as long as the communication is primarily between the parents, what my husband gives me authority to do is what my husband gives me authority to do and mom can't, you know, say otherwise unless I'm harming the kids, which I'm not.
speaker-2: chest, what's it like in New Jersey? 'Cause I feel like I'm like worried for you 'cause it feels like kinda toxic.
speaker-1: So New Jersey is a very fair state. they do not like favor mom or dad in the instance of, you know, custody and parental like custodial time. They're they're very fair. If unless there's a situation, you know, preventing mom from having primary custody or joint custody, you know, they keep it they keep it fifty fifty. yeah, they it's they try to keep it really fair in New Jersey. And as far as like parent like co-parents, like as like myself, for example, they're not against that at all. I feel like they kind of yeah, it it's it's, you know, dynamic families and they're blended families and, you know, it's it's good. It's as long as, you know, stepmom and stepdad are of sound mind and they're helping raise, you know, good children with morals and, you know, everything that comes with raising a child, then the the court system doesn't Really get involved in that. Yeah.
speaker-0: Okay, so Jess, I do have a question for you because you said there was an adjustment when you came into the picture for everybody. How is your relationship with your bonus kids' mom?
speaker-1: So surprisingly, surprisingly, it has gotten better, but it was it it was rough for a while. It started out well in in the very beginning. and I think it was because I don't think she thought that I would actually marry her ex. And I I d I don't think there was that that fear, like I I don't think she thought I would be permanent. I thought maybe, you know, she's a nice girl, she's a you know, this is his girlfriend. It is what it is, type of thing. and then as my husband and I got serious, which we did quickly, we we I moved in quickly, he proposed quickly, we got married quickly. it I think things started to shift a little bit between him and her. And I think that was because he started to like stand up for himself a little bit more and have a little bit more I don't want to say backbone because he is a very strong individual, but I think he, you know the expression pick and choose your battles, you know, for the sake of peace. I think he was doing that a little bit less because he had me in his corner. But by default, I was the reason for it. I became the sole issue with them having issues. So it was like, you know, ever since you started dating her, ever since you got with her, now we're fighting and now we're this and now we're that. And it's like, I don't know. I can't speak on it, but I have this I have an inkling that it wasn't always rainbows and butterflies, you know. Right. But now you have somebody that we you can blame for the the arguments. So it's I'm just an easy target.
speaker-0: Absolutely.
speaker-2: So I had to I'm just letting y'all know an ex wife is gonna be a problem, whether or not they had kids. Meanwhile there's some other girl running around out the inner world with the legal name of Erica Sanders. Yeah. So that's why when you ask me my name, that's why I'm just saying that what y'all are dealing with with a toxic ex wife, I'm dealing with it too. So my heart goes out to y'all.
speaker-0: So you don't have to ha what you're saying is you don't have to have kids to deal with exes that are conflict or have conflict. So Jess, you were saying that you were easy to blame because things were shifting. That's something that we as stepmoms hear a lot. You know, things are fine. And so she came into the picture, but I believe strongly that a lot of times when that is said, it's because dad just did what mom requested, you know. And when dad says no for the first time, it's kinda like, Wait, why? Why are you saying no? Like you would have always said yes. Like it's never been an issue before. So now that you've been in the picture long enough and she's like, Okay, she's here, they're married, have things gotten better?
speaker-1: Yes, they have. And, you know, I I do have to give her credit. in the sense that, you know, I I don't have any kids of my own. Okay. I do have an ex husband and my my dog is with my ex husband and his girlfriend sees my dog. And I in my heart, I'm like, she's around my dog. So I can't imagine. So I can't imagine. my child being loved and hugged and, you know, all that from another woman. But also, you know, I'm thankful, and I can only use my dog as a reference, but I'm thankful she's good to my dog. I'm thankful that her heart is good and her intentions are good. So from a a stepmom's point of view, before we got good, it was like, don't you realize that you could have a a lunatic a lunatic in in your child's life. who doesn't care, doesn't care if she's washed and dressed, if their hair is done, if you know, if anything. And, you know, for me, I really, really, really wanted to not just be, hey, I'm here, I'll do what you need me to. I really wanted my husband and the and the girls to feel like I cared. Like I wanted to take the time to my daughters are biracial. my stepdaughters are biracial, my daughters are biracial. and their hair texture is a lot different than anything that I am familiar with. And, you know, I it was important to me to learn how to manage their hair in the right way. And, you know, I think that I think his ex notices stuff like that. That's why I bring that up. That's so
speaker-2: My kid, she's a nurse. Like I'm just saying, what is if someone's upset, like they just don't have a grateful spirit. Like one of my friends, who was a stepmom, she's a teacher and like that the other mom like loved her. She's like, I know my like she was so excited about it. I'm friends with both the moms too, and they're friends with each other. But that's what we want to see out here in the world is women supporting other women. I w you know, like and that's sad. We call it a toxica down here in Texas. I don't know if you heard of that word. It's a Spanish word for a toxic person, but We could all be a toxica. I've been one before, I know that about myself. But I'm not gonna make assumptions. But if someone's not appreciating another woman or man or whoever it is and respecting them as a human that's giving help for their children, that's stupid. You know what I mean? And that's a toxica and that's not on you.
speaker-0: Do you think some people can be toxic for forever? Because what I've recognized with people if they are toxic is that they don't know how to take accountability. And that's a big issue. Let's talk about that because that's a another thing that I see a lot. Because there are step moms that will speak to me and they've been with dad for years and they're still having issues with their husband or their partner's ex. And so like what do you think is the issue? Cause naturally I thought, okay, it's a new woman in the kids' life. It's gonna take an adjustment, you know, are they gonna be here for a while? But then over time they are there for a while and now they're married. So what is your issue still?
speaker-2: She's jealous. Have you never listened to Megan the Stallion? She's from Houston. She's like
speaker-0: Mm.
speaker-2: I love her too. Like my favorite song is Girls in the Hood. Because literally ever since I like when she says like ever since 16, whatever, been having a job, this that's real. But like when she's like, These bitches mad mad, they wanna hurt me. It's jealousy. You're running around. I mean man, dude. It's not even it's odd.
speaker-1: I don't I don't think that I don't think that you're technically wrong. I mean, I I think that with you know, a biological mom who is, you know, even in another relationship with with kids of her own in her new marriage or new relationship, if there's still animosity or there is still tension, there has to be something a little bit more there than just the pull for. these are my kids and that no, because you would at one point be like, you know what? Thank God I get a little break. Thank God I have another individual of sound mind helping me raise my kids who is a, you know, again, not a hardened criminal, has a career, has an education, you know, comes from a good family. Like these are things
speaker-0: Jess.
speaker-1: that are hard to find in in the world now as it is. But to have that person be involved in raising your children, I think that's a big benefit. And you know, I think when you allow that behavior to to continue on for years and years and years, it might just stem from a level of jealousy that a biological mom is not come to terms with, or there's still feelings for dad. Absolutely.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: that that's what it is. I and I can only I will speak to that on a tiny little part because my mother, when she married my father, He had a seven year old from a prior marriage. My
speaker-2: I didn't know.
speaker-1: mother went, yes, my mother went through the mill with his ex-wife.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: My mom didn't have it easy at all. She was very spiteful. And I and I look at what I have heard from my mother growing up, and I look at my current situation. And to be honest, I thank God that, you know, my husband's ex is. the way she is, because we can communicate with each other. If there is a problem and we're angry about something, we can s
speaker-0: Wait, she talks to you? What? We
speaker-1: She talked
speaker-0: got people out in these streets blocking people, okay? She talks to you.
speaker-1: And she does. We it it it took a little bit to get where we are now, but I could literally and I'm not kidding you, if I had if there was a fight going on, I'm gonna go extreme. If there was something insane going on and my life was on the line and I needed somebody to help jump in and like s I could call her.
speaker-2: Whoa. That's beautiful.
speaker-1: I could call her. She would be there. I won't. And let me tell you I'm telling you, she would be there. She would be there. And and that is the reason where I mean it took time to get here. But again, that's where I say I can see from her point of view where. And let me get it straight. It's not perfect. There are days that I'm like, I'm gonna rip my hair out. Like, you know, there's things that I'm like, I don't agree with this, I don't agree with that. But I am grateful overall because. I saw what my mom went through, like and it's just and what other people go through and I'm I'm grateful. I am.
speaker-0: So glad you said that because I think a lot of people online just assume one thing about blended families and it's always negative. And when it comes to moms and stepmoms, and like it's always stepmom trying to overstep, and if it's always moms being bitter, when actuality it's just the person. So your mom's experience is completely different from yours because you're dealing with different people in different stages of their lives. So if you haven't done the healing, if you haven't done the work. It's going to show in when your co parent has a partner. Because if you think about it, it should be about the kids and it should be super simple. We all love these kids, right? So what's the issue?
speaker-1: That's a thing. And when when you know stepmom and biological mom are fighting, that rolls over into dad's custodial time and then mom's custodial time. And then it's just really affecting it's just affecting the kids. And and it's not about it's not about us at a certain point, you know, it's about what is in the best interest of the kids. And I think that, you know, when you can and again, I I do want to say one thing. I I can't speak for every stepmom's place. But I will say that my husband made my transition as a stepmom and made my transition into this entire world, even with with dealing with his ex and and you know, with the kids. He made that seamless for me. And I think because of that, and how he laid the groundwork down and the communication he did with his ex to show me respect and not tolerate any nonsense. Because again, let me clarify, it was not always easy. he did not tolerate that and he helped me and it it
speaker-0: You can you give examples? Cause I'm sure I can hear a stepmom saying, like, well, what did he do? How did that happen? You know, how did he make it easy for you to transition into this role?
speaker-1: Yeah. So when he asked me to move in, he said to me, this is your home now. And that means everything is yours. And then he had a conversation with his girls, you know, right in front of me. And he said, This is now Jessica's home. And if Jessica says you don't do something or you are to do something, you don't question it. And
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: he was a a huge, huge you know, contributor and how these kids now respect me. And if it wasn't for him doing that, and and it doesn't happen overnight, we're talking about a a four-year-old at the time and a six-year-old at the time, you know, like that it that takes consistency. And he was extremely consistent. He was extremely patient. And when things did get toxic with his ex and, you know, there was arguments between her and I, or, you know, him and her about me. And, you know. He really just, he A, tried to always handle it appropriately. It wasn't like we're we didn't want to go to war. We're we're gonna talk. But if it needed to, he brought it there. He brought it from a five to a 10 and he wasn't afraid. You know? So I think just all of that combined made me feel confident. And Again, it's just like leading it, you know, imagine like there is, you know, four feet of snow outside and you need to get to the the outhouse. I don't know why I'm using the outhouse, but you're looking at you're looking at it that that trek and you're like, How am I gonna do this? But if there's somebody in front of you shoveling the walkway for you, you're like, I got this. I can it's no problem. It I can do this easily. And that's essentially what my husband did for me in this.
speaker-0: Love that. Okay, so Erica, hearing your girl, hearing your friend talk about this, right? Is this Yes, is this the kind of things that you would you were you would talk about when you're dealing with parents that were going through divorce, like post-divorce and how to be amicable, or was it strictly just let's handle this?
speaker-2: I was on one person's side of the team, don't forget, because I was their advocate. So I had
speaker-0: Absolutely.
speaker-2: my client was out there doing I was annoyed. So honestly, I've seen it all, but no matter what, my I really was always keeping in mind the best interest of the kids and then I preferred mediation. When it was litigation, it was only the times that I ha that my client was the right one and we won. Or we got what he wanted both times. But otherwise I preferred mediation. My I my favorite female client, I love this hoe. She's on a hoe. But anyways, it was just funny. I do love this girl. I love her. But she's off in Florida. Anyway, I just loved her because she was so selfless as a mom. And she just really cared about her kids doing what was best for them. She was just, you know, she was just so healthy about it. So I'm just letting you know there is hope for a woman out there. But usually it's when she finds herself another it's usually I will say this. The one that I in my experience as a divorce lawyer, the one that walked away, the other one's mad. So if the like in some situations, like I would represent the what whoever my client was, they had to be the one to walk away because they were then we go out to drinks, we were celebrating, we're happy. I never represented the person that like got left because that was like they were always mad. And so I'm just letting you know always about that. that's why I got out of Family Law truly, and moved on. It's like I did my time. You know, I helped these I helped I did my time.
speaker-0: I'm done. This is too much.
speaker-2: So like I might be like tough, but dealing with CPIs and alleged allegations of not my client, thank God.
speaker-0: Okay, well let me ask you this though. Let me ask you this, Erica. How can parents protect their children from the adult conflict when they're going through divorce and post divorce? Best
speaker-2: In Texas we have
speaker-0: advice.
speaker-2: it's sad that y'all don't have this down there. We have something called an amicus attorney in Texas that's designed for that reason. So when parents are getting a divorce in Texas, there's the mom's lawyer, there's with kids. If the in high conflict situations, even if it's not a divorce, we file modifications in custody. amicus attorneys are appointed only when necessary. But an amicus usually they're always appointed mostly. I d I can't really talk about like I don't know all the rules, but an amicus attorney is something Sometimes it's called the guardian ad light and and like I said, that person
speaker-0: That we have here in South Carolina.
speaker-2: is supposed to be the one, at least in my experiences. And they've been good ones with the the amicus I worked with as attorneys have been good. And one's a male, one's a female, both really cared. Cause they were they were and are the child slash teenager, however old they may be. That's their attorney. And they're there to do what's best for them. And I've seen them advocate. And say step one of them, their their own self was a stepmom. And she was like, it's so healthy to do that. Like she was like, she had a special as a stepmom herself. You know, she had a place in her heart about that. And you know, but at the end of the day, lawyers are people. That's what an advocacy is. And being a family law attorney was so important. But I'm raising my own daughters out here in the world, and they need me too. So that's why I switched into a new field of law personally. But I'll say about Jess. She can have like everywhere we go on any trip or time we've been, she always gets every girl to like her. Not in a weird way, but like she I mean very
speaker-0: She's a likable person.
speaker-2: likable. She could
speaker-1: Thank you.
speaker-2: probably have like your own sessions. Like she could become a certified like life coach. I don't know, she could become your friend, but she can probably like tell you how to win over this this mom. I don't know her anything. I'm not gonna call her I don't know anything about her at all. But I feel like Jess could really help you do that. That's my opinion on that.
speaker-0: Well, let me make it clear, we don't have any issues in my situation. Like my bonus daughter turned sixteen last week. my gosh.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: yes. And so we're so things like the things are calming down in a sense of like communication. Like, do we still have issues that come up? Absolutely. but I have taken the step of just not communicating with mom and just leaving that up to my husband.
speaker-2: her back one of my clients daughters was having a problem with the stepmom but she did call my client's daughter a hoe and down she really she actually slat shamed her for taking birth control when she was fifteen and her mom that was her client and her mom's decision. But the good news in Texas when a child slash teen is older than twelve or older, they are allowed to meet privately with the judge in his or her chambers and tell them. And I think that's beautiful. So I actually have a lot of respect for the Texas family courts guys, other states listening out there. You should follow our examples. They really yeah, I think what they don't they make it so it's not problematic and
speaker-0: Say this though, I I divorced in Tennessee and at the time my kids had just turned two years old. Yeah. And I felt pressured because his lawyer was a male, my lawyer was a male, and they were just trying to wrap it up. They didn't want it to go further. The only thing that I remember that they did or required us to do as we were divorcing with children was to take these online classes. And it was a waste of time because who's really who's really I mean, I took it seriously because I was just like, my gosh, what am I doing? But it's just it wasn't enough. Like the stuff that I know now, I wish I could have told Darlene that what, wow, ten years ago. You know what I'm saying? So it's just I wish I wish there was more that people can offer in the the courts for parents. And kind of prep them for post divorce and what it's like to prepare for those things and making sure to put the kids first. I don't think everybody really thinks about that. And you're fortunate to have Jess in your life so she can give you like a sense of stepmom experience. But there are people who have no experience with blended families. Love her.
speaker-2: You're like, you girl. She's that girl. So she'll be here for you, also. For real. She's like that. Like she'll be here to give you advice. And so it's a meant to be that y'all met. And she asked me to come on with you guys today. I'm happy to be like part of y'all moment, like as a lawyer, letting you know that. But just knowing her for the last 17 years, like she really is that way. Like, like I said, I was friends with her before she was friends with me. But anyways, like literally that. I was like, I was like so I'm just saying she just really is that. She'll let you know, like I feel like y'all should be together like like privately offline, honestly. That's you should be together. Yeah. And I will say that Texas does a great job when they when there's kids, they put them away in the chambers like behind closed doors. And that's good. I was saying with the actual
speaker-0: Very good.
speaker-2: Yeah, like it's this is sometimes all advice for parents. Like, like I've been asking my Google AI like honestly, like, you know, girls can be like, even having two daughters, like they're like, you know, it's just women can be women. We are all women. We know how we all we all know that none of us is our per I know that I'm not a perfect person at all. And that's for sure. so just give the person some grace. pray for her. I don't have any other types of advice just about how to get along with her. Do you? I really don't. Like I'm out of I'm just like the kind that would rather fight with someone sometimes. That's why I'm a litigator, you know. So Jess, what would you say? I don't know how to get along with people. Like if someone being rude, ignore them, but you can't do that as a mom, so I don't I don't know. Okay.
speaker-0: Okay, but I do have like the kitchen table hot take that I wanna do before we close for the session. I'm gonna throw out a few situations and I want both of your perspectives. you don't have to agree with each other or me. All right. So I'm gonna throw the first one. Should a bio mom have to approve a new stepmom's involvement?
speaker-2: The court should I don't
speaker-1: Think so.
speaker-2: that's up for the court to decide.
speaker-0: answer. I'm gonna steal that. It's up to the courts to decide.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's up to I think I think it's up to the the dad. Like whoever is the s the spouse or the the the partner of that person, it doesn't what if you're not living in these four walls then what you say really doesn't it how can it how could it hold water?
speaker-0: Absolutely. That's how I think about it too. Okay, next next scenario. Should step parents be included in school events and extracurricular activities? Yeah. Sorry,
speaker-2: Are
speaker-0: bonus parents. Okay. So
speaker-2: I just call them parents, you know, there's no I don't like these horrible sound like words. Of course they should be involved, I think. Think
speaker-0: Yeah. I've
speaker-2: they should be involved too. But the answer is yes. And it makes it better for everyone, including the kids. I would love to have an extra helper around y'all, someone come I wish my husband's ex wife would take a more active role.
speaker-0: Okay, handle these cuts. Alrighty. Can a bio parent set rules for what happens in the other household, which kind of goes back to what we said about approving a stepmom's involvement?
speaker-1: N not in my household. It's just not gonna happen. I mean, there can be things like you wanna give the kids vitamins that they take on my time. Yes, easily. Right. But if you are or we wanna limit like electronic time, yes. But if you're gonna say like we're gonna punish her for this that happened at my house and it's gonna, you know, roll over into your custodial time, no. N right things like that, or or rules like what goes what works in our house, works in our house for a reason.
speaker-0: Right. So do you think that it's possible to have same rules in both homes? In both homes. Sorry.
speaker-1: I think it's I think it's I think it should be the goal. Yeah. I think it helps form you know, what's the word I'm looking for? Why can't it it it helps thank you. It helps form consistency and, you know, just a r regulatory actions inside of a house. If one person is saying this and the other person is saying that, kids are not gonna know they're too young to differentiate. So I think that it The goal should be that. Is it always? I don't think so.
speaker-0: Right. And and we should be okay about that.
speaker-1: Yeah, I because you can't mi you can't say what goes on in somebody else's house. It's just like you can't tell a stranger how to raise their kids. Like it once that you if you're if there is fifty fifty custody involved, I think that that is then it needs to be treated as two separate entities. But I think there should be some level of agreement. You know, obviously let's get the kids in let's try to keep the kids in bed between eight and nine o'clock. They have school to, you know, seven seven o'clock or whatever. Right. Let's you know, bathe the kids, you know, wash their hair once a week. However it is, like certain things. But but no, I I I think I think otherwise it's too hard, but it should you know.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What what would you say, Erica Erica? Sorry.
speaker-2: Since you retire she's a sixteen year old, I'm looking back to my dad. anyways, the point is like y'all like it just feels like, yeah, when they're teenagers, like the curfew, whatever y'all decide, like she can stay out till ten or eleven, whatever. I don't know the laws in other states. But anyways, it feels like everyone, even when they're married, needs to be on the same wavelength. And I mean, a lot of my kids' parents fr their friends at school moms act like we're co parenting together. So I do know that they feel that way. And when we're their kids are like spending the night, you know, they have to establish the boundaries. Like one time my daughter Aspen was off on a sleepover with a mom at the school who also happens to be my daughter Holland's teacher. Hello, that's weird. And so that day that mom texted me and she was upset because Aspen was back back at her house with the babysitter and the babysitter was saying, like, it's bedtime and it was summertime, girl. And yeah, during the summertime, so Aspen wasn't on her sleeping schedule. That's fine. Like she was getting ready for camp. But so the mom The mom texts me and she's like, my gosh, like my babysitter's freaking out because the babysitter had told Aspen and the other kid it was time for bed at like seven or something. Aspen's like, girl, in my house, we don't go to bed till nine. And so like my friend was fine. She just didn't want her babysitter quitting on her. And I feel that. But like I told her, like, you can't say that on a sleepover. The other moms at the school and I in the second grade, there's nine of us of the girl moms. And we had to co-parent together and be on the same rules. So I can, I can see what you're dealing with. I don't know how to get along with women. I'm still learning it every day. think I use other women's for advice on this one. And sometimes they stay out of it, which is also cute for them. like I respect him. Like she didn't reply like that. But anyways, it's like
speaker-0: And it's enlightened. The power of the internet for sure. Okay, so before we close the kitchen table, I want to ask you both one final question. If there's a woman listening right now who's entering a a blended family, trying to find her place or feeling like nobody understands what she's navigating, what would you want her to know?
speaker-1: Would want her to know that it is going to get hard. It is. And there are going to be days that you are going to cry and you are going to question why you're here and you know what is God's plan. But you have to just remember that where there is darkness, there is light. And everything. that goes up must come down. Ride it out with your new family and just take the good with the bad. Have patience in yourself. Have patience in the situation and trust in God's timing.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: That's really good. What about you, Erica? What would you say?
speaker-2: just call j hashtag just call Jess. Or you I c y'all can do that if she lets you. and then besides that I like a lot t a lot of things she said, give the person grace. Sometimes give them space. That's not good. I don't like to I don't give them space. Give them grace. Pray for them. but keep your sanity, whatever that means for you, whether that exercise yoga, going to church, wherever going to temple, You know, whatever that means for you personally, like literally everyone's different in the entire world. So whatever gives you strength and sanity and keeps you and your happiness and your glow and like your lifestyle, stay there. And for me this is a learning step every day in my life. And it's not even dealing with it's just dealing with women. It you know, not my kids, I love them, but I'm saying women my own age that are other moms and they have opinion you know, it's just dealing with other moms with opinions like Sometimes we can give better advice to others than we can do ourselves. To ourselves like sometimes my friend Jacqueline, like, just ignore her, girl. Like, don't react. And I like, Yeah, doesn't enter my energy field. And I'm letting you know like some of the struggles you're feeling, you're not alone. Find your tribe and I think Jess is the great girl to start with.
speaker-0: She's great, isn't she? thank you for saying all of that. both of you, Jess and Erica. can you please tell my listeners where they can find you?
speaker-1: So my Instagram is at just somato. Simple. First and last name.
speaker-0: Okay. What about you, Erica?
speaker-2: Mine is at Erica the Rose. Just type in Erica Rose Sanders. And then I also have a new one, but it's all in my bio. But it's called Slaying Down the Law. Like and I d I've trademarked it. So it's like Slit. My husband used to not know what sleigh meant. I started it like several years back. But it's like Slit A, like Slay Queen, like slaying down the law. Isn't that like I love that.
speaker-0: Anyway. Well, to to my listeners, I will put their information in the show notes so you can keep up with them. and so with that being said, the kitchen table is officially closed today. And I'll meet you back here next time. Please make sure to follow Love Darlene wherever you're listening so you don't miss the next conversation. And if something in this episode made you laugh, think or feel a little less alone. Leave a rating and a review. It helps more women find the show and join us around the kitchen table. You can also find me on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook for more stepmom and blended family conversations between episodes. Until next time, take what you need, protect your peace, and remember exactly who you are. Love, Darlene.

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