# Grace Out Loud | The Christian Journey Episode 2

An episode of [🎙 Grace Out Loud](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/6794405665), 13 May 2026, 25 min.

Audio: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/b15hms2i7xcvzxpo/yt_video_fRKWpS5dIr0.mp4

Welcome to Grace Out Loud, the podcast for honest conversations about faith that you don’t always hear on a Sunday morning. In this second part of our series, The Christian Journey, we move from the history books to real life as Katie and Dom share their own personal faith stories and testimonies. If you’ve ever wondered how to find your purpose outside of your career or how to handle seasons of doubt in your faith, this episode is for you. In This Episode, We Discuss: Ancestors vs. Descendants: A fun "would you rather" on meeting the people who made us or the generations to come. The Search for Meaning: Why humans are naturally drawn to transcendence and asking the "bigger questions" about why we are here. Identity Beyond the Job: Katie shares her journey from being a reporter in the NHL to discovering who she is as a person with a relationship with Jesus. Belonging Without Earning It: Dom reflects on his transition from being "nominally Catholic" to finding a youth group community that welcomed him before he ever felt "cool" enough to fit in. Wrestling with God: Dealing with the "trapdoor" moments of losing your faith and why the struggle, much like Jacob's in the Bible, is often the point of growth. Answering the Call: How Dom decided to become a pastor and how Katie pivoted into digital storytelling for the church. #christianfaithjourney #FindingYourPurpose #RelationshipwithGod #DealingwithDoubt #PersonalTestimony #IdentityinChrist

## Transcript

[0:03] Wherever you go,
[0:05] >> \[music\]
[0:05] >> wherever you stay,
[0:07] don't you forget that love is always
[0:09] coming your way.
[0:11] No matter how far,
[0:13] how broken you are,
[0:15] >> \[music\]
[0:15] >> don't you forget that love is always
[0:17] coming your way.
[0:18] >> What's up everybody? Welcome to Grace
[0:21] Out Loud, our podcast for conversations
[0:23] about things that you don't always hear
[0:25] on Sunday because Dom, we can't talk
[0:27] about everything.
[0:28] >> just not enough time.
[0:28] >> There's not enough time. I'm Katie, he's
[0:30] Dom, and we are continuing our series on
[0:33] the Christian journey. Today, talking
[0:35] about what's your faith journey. So,
[0:37] this will be a great opportunity. We're
[0:39] not getting into the nitty-gritty. We
[0:41] don't have to be fully nerdy this
[0:42] episode. We're talking about our own
[0:43] personal stories. I want to hear about
[0:46] your journey to become a pastor, all
[0:47] that and more. So, we will get to that,
[0:49] but first, as always, we're going to
[0:51] start off with a little fun, start off
[0:53] with an icebreaker. And on the topic of
[0:55] journeys and traveling
[0:58] >> Ooh, okay.
[0:58] >> back in time, maybe, or to the future.
[1:01] So, would you rather go back in time to
[1:04] meet your ancestors or go forward to
[1:07] meet your descendants. I switched it up
[1:09] this week. We have a would you rather.
[1:11] >> Wow, okay. That
[1:13] is like, am I optimistic that like there
[1:18] is a like I'm seeing a really good
[1:20] future
[1:20] >> That's true.
[1:21] You don't know what you're going to get.
[1:23] >> I think right now, I would say I want to
[1:25] meet my descendants.
[1:26] >> You want to One, because I'm hoping
[1:27] we'll have like flying cars and this
[1:28] stuff.
[1:29] >> Yeah, yeah. That'll be really cool.
[1:30] >> I like it.
[1:31] >> Like I've been to the Italian
[1:33] countryside and it's beautiful, but like
[1:35] I have never seen a car fly and I want
[1:37] to see that.
[1:38] >> so you're you're you're going for the
[1:39] future. You want to see the future Doms
[1:42] of the world.
[1:43] I'm actually going to go back cuz I I
[1:46] don't know. I feel like I've never been
[1:48] someone that's dove in a lot to like
[1:50] >> Your ancestral tree, okay.
[1:52] >> like I I I'm not on what is it,
[1:53] ancestry.com, right? I've never done the
[1:55] like my tree stuff. So, I would be
[1:57] curious I would be curious to go back to
[1:59] that.
[2:00] >> The Gossians So, the Gossians the
[2:01] Gossians are German and then my mom's
[2:03] side super Italian. I actually think I
[2:05] still do have like second cousins who
[2:07] are in like living in Italy. So, that
[2:10] part would be neat. I would probably
[2:11] focus on that side and go back to see
[2:13] what was going on back you know, the
[2:15] Italians.
[2:15] >> where they're from?
[2:16] >> food. I
[2:18] north the northern yeah.
[2:20] >> I know my ancestors are from Genoa.
[2:22] >> Oh.
[2:22] >> Yeah.
[2:23] >> See, I that's why I'm so bad about this.
[2:24] Like that's why I should probably go
[2:26] back and figure it out because I don't
[2:27] know anything. I want to know more. I
[2:29] think it'd be interesting. All right.
[2:31] So, we're talking about journeys.
[2:32] Obviously, we talked about the Christian
[2:34] journey our last episode and how we got
[2:36] to where we are in Christianity how that
[2:38] all began.
[2:40] But today I want to talk about the
[2:41] journey in terms of finding faith and
[2:44] how that journey looks. So, when you
[2:46] think about why people find faith how
[2:49] they do it and maybe what draws people
[2:51] to the idea of faith what kind of comes
[2:53] to mind?
[2:54] >> Oh, that's a good question. Um well, I
[2:56] mean
[2:57] I think that you know, um we were just
[2:59] talking about this with Brian. Um not
[3:02] sure if that episode's aired yet.
[3:03] >> No, that's a special surprise episode.
[3:05] It's coming but we did have we we have a
[3:07] sneak peek. So, don't worry.
[3:08] >> Perfect. Well,
[3:08] >> Pastor Pastor Brian coming soon.
[3:10] >> We kind of talked about how people um
[3:12] have always wanted transcendence. You
[3:14] know, I think humans have always like
[3:16] looked up at the sky and been like,
[3:18] "What is going on here? I'm a very small
[3:20] piece of the puzzle. What is out there?"
[3:22] And we start asking those questions you
[3:24] ask the bigger questions of why am I
[3:26] here? Who put me here?
[3:27] >> Mhm.
[3:28] >> And so, I think searching for meaning is
[3:31] one thing that attracts a lot of people
[3:32] the Christian faith. Yeah. I also think
[3:34] community that's what attracted me to
[3:37] the Christian faith um is having a
[3:39] loving nurturing caring community that
[3:42] acts different from the communities that
[3:46] you see in the world and maybe um acts
[3:48] the way that you would would hope that
[3:51] life looked like. So I think like
[3:53] community, transcendence, finding
[3:55] meaning. I also think at some points,
[3:58] you know, we come to the end of
[4:00] ourselves and we we hit rock bottom.
[4:02] We're like, "I just don't know where to
[4:03] go from here."
[4:05] Um
[4:05] and I think that the gospel is very
[4:07] powerful
[4:09] in all of those moments, right? What
[4:11] about you? What do you think?
[4:11] >> Yeah, absolutely. I like that you said
[4:13] community cuz I think for me that's
[4:15] definitely what has always drawn me into
[4:17] finding places to to worship, to to
[4:20] finding people of of faith. Um I move a
[4:23] lot. Like when I was, you know, when I
[4:25] was in broadcasting
[4:26] I mean, my goodness, I lived in like
[4:28] seven different states over the course
[4:29] of like five or six years. And the one
[4:31] thing that I could always count on
[4:33] whenever I would move is finding a
[4:34] church. And knowing that if I went
[4:36] there, I would be able to find young
[4:38] people. I would be able to find people
[4:40] of similar beliefs and just find some
[4:42] type of a an a network, right? To to
[4:44] feel supported by. And so I think if
[4:46] nothing else, it's a great starting
[4:48] point for anybody that's just in a place
[4:51] of transition to know that no matter
[4:52] where you are, you're going to be able
[4:53] to find a church. And that's super
[4:55] comforting. So for me that's not
[4:57] necessarily what brought me to faith,
[4:58] but I know that that's a big part of
[5:00] continuing my faith is always seeking
[5:02] out community.
[5:04] >> One of the biggest reasons that people
[5:06] leave the church is actually because
[5:07] they move and they try to get plugged in
[5:10] and then it just doesn't stick. And
[5:12] they're like, "Well, this isn't part of
[5:13] my life anymore, you know?" That's why
[5:15] having like a a church that's so
[5:16] community focused is so important. So
[5:19] >> So for you as a as a pastor, obviously
[5:21] especially having worked in Connections
[5:22] for a long time, you're meeting people
[5:24] at that threshold.
[5:25] What are some of the reasons or you
[5:27] know, main conversations of you know,
[5:29] people expressing you know, how they
[5:31] found us or why you know, they they they
[5:33] \[clears throat\] sought out coming to
[5:35] church, why they sought out a faith?
[5:36] >> Um the the
[5:39] a big reason is people are are brought
[5:41] here by their friends and family.
[5:44] Like some people really are like brought
[5:48] by their loved ones who want them to
[5:49] experience the Christian journey, right?
[5:52] >> Yes, yeah.
[5:52] >> Um and sometimes they want it and
[5:56] sometimes they don't and receive an
[5:58] unexpected like really beautiful
[6:00] surprise of like, oh, this is what I
[6:01] really really really need.
[6:03] >> I think the vast majority of people are
[6:05] looking for community. People um are
[6:08] looking for connection. People are
[6:09] looking for belonging. Most people when,
[6:12] you know,
[6:13] they come to our church or like, I I
[6:15] really want to make some friends. I
[6:17] really want to connect with people.
[6:19] Um
[6:20] And then there are um a ton of moments
[6:23] where people just have like a lot of big
[6:25] questions in life, you know? Like we do
[6:27] Alpha and that's just a really good
[6:29] space for people to
[6:31] ask all of their questions. And a lot of
[6:34] the things that we hear are, you know,
[6:35] some people are Christians were
[6:37] Christians a long time ago and are not
[6:40] anymore and they're like, I have a lot
[6:42] of issues with the church. Why does this
[6:44] happen, you know?
[6:45] >> Um or they're like they're asking
[6:47] questions about
[6:49] um
[6:50] what what makes Christianity different
[6:52] than any other religion, you know? Um
[6:55] it's a lot of different things. Yeah.
[6:56] >> And they should watch this podcast cuz
[6:58] we talk about that.
[6:59] >> do. I was going to say I think I'm
[7:00] repeating us.
[7:00] >> We're killing it. Um
[7:02] okay, I want to talk about your faith
[7:05] journey cuz I find it interesting
[7:07] because you took it, you know, not just
[7:09] to a place of personal faith, but you
[7:10] you made it your career, right? Which is
[7:12] a very amazing commitment. So, I want to
[7:15] know first just about your faith
[7:16] journey, kind of how did you come to
[7:18] faith? Um and then we'll talk about how
[7:20] you became Pastor Don.
[7:23] >> Of course.
[7:23] >> Um
[7:24] >> yeah, a little a little like tidbit
[7:27] about like faith journey testimony, some
[7:29] people call it testimony.
[7:30] Um here's something that like bugs me
[7:32] about people share testimonies. Um
[7:35] one is like if your life wasn't super
[7:37] horrible, it's like less valuable. Like
[7:40] that's kind of like the mentality around
[7:42] testimony sometimes.
[7:43] >> I relate it to when you're trying to
[7:45] write a really meaningful college like
[7:48] college essay for
[7:50] for an application and they're like tell
[7:51] us something that was like crazy about
[7:52] your life or changed your life. You're
[7:53] like
[7:54] >> \[gasps\]
[7:54] >> I'm I I I'm just pretty boring. I I
[7:57] don't know. I I mean I just really want
[7:58] to go to school here.
[7:59] >> And some people think that their story
[8:00] is less valuable if
[8:02] >> But it's not. Yes. Just because you
[8:03] didn't Anyways.
[8:04] >> Yeah. And then the second is I think
[8:06] sometimes people make their testimony or
[8:08] their faith journey like here is the one
[8:10] point from my faith journey. And it's
[8:12] like that's not how life works. Like you
[8:14] don't It all isn't all directed to one
[8:15] answer.
[8:16] >> like every person's is going to come to
[8:18] this booming voice from the skies
[8:20] opening and that's okay.
[8:21] >> So what I usually say when I share this
[8:24] is um your faith journey is uh important
[8:28] because it involves your story and how
[8:31] Jesus was involved.
[8:32] >> Yeah.
[8:32] >> And whether whatever happened in that
[8:35] story doesn't make it any more valuable
[8:37] or less valuable. Um it is infinitely
[8:39] valuable because it's yours and because
[8:41] Jesus is involved.
[8:42] >> Um I love that.
[8:43] >> Yeah. So
[8:45] with that said um I was not raised in a
[8:47] Christian home. You know, we were um we
[8:49] were like Catholic nominally Catholic um
[8:52] um which really just means like I'm
[8:54] super Italian, right?
[8:55] >> Yes. We've done that one. Yes. I love
[8:57] it.
[8:58] >> But we never really went to church a
[8:59] ton. Um
[9:01] and I didn't have
[9:04] the most positive relationship with
[9:07] religion.
[9:08] >> Mhm.
[9:08] >> Um I viewed it as a set of rules.
[9:10] >> Yeah.
[9:11] >> Um
[9:12] But you know, middle and high school
[9:13] survival of the fittest and when you're
[9:15] not like the most fit kid, um it's kind
[9:17] of tough.
[9:18] >> Yeah.
[9:18] >> So I didn't really have a lot of friends
[9:20] and I didn't feel a sense of belonging
[9:23] at home. So I felt like there was like
[9:24] nowhere that I like fit, right?
[9:27] >> Right.
[9:27] >> Um and so the one friend that I did have
[9:29] invited me to his youth group um and he
[9:32] was like, "Do you want to come to this?
[9:34] There's pizza and video games." And I
[9:35] was like, "Oh yeah, absolutely. Like
[9:36] I'll do that. Like, where is it? I don't
[9:38] know, but I'll go." Yeah. Um
[9:40] But, like, I experienced a group of
[9:42] people who were happy just because I
[9:45] walked in the door.
[9:46] And everywhere else in the world, you
[9:48] know, you have to be smart, you have to
[9:51] be cool, you have to be funny, you have
[9:53] to be successful, you know? Um you like
[9:55] earn your belonging. And so,
[9:57] experiencing a place where it's like,
[9:59] "Oh, I am welcome here simply because I
[10:02] walked in the door." That was so
[10:05] remarkably different. And I was like,
[10:06] "What what these people have, like, I
[10:08] want." Um
[10:10] and it wasn't until like continuing to
[10:12] go and hearing uh my youth pastor talk
[10:14] about how um
[10:16] you know, Christianity is a relationship
[10:19] with Jesus, not a set of rules. Um
[10:23] and I think there's a lot of nuance
[10:24] there, but that was like
[10:26] >> basic
[10:27] >> Yeah, just completely a huge shift for
[10:29] me. Um that that God loved me just as I
[10:33] was and wanted a relationship with me.
[10:35] Um and like I wanted that like
[10:38] drastically changed my life, you know? I
[10:41] was kind of like a punk. I, you know,
[10:44] put others down cuz I felt put down. And
[10:46] when Jesus got a hold of my life, I
[10:48] didn't want to do that anymore. I just
[10:49] wanted to give people that sense of
[10:52] welcome that I had. Um so, yeah, I would
[10:54] say that's me. What what about you? I
[10:55] would love to hear your
[10:56] >> That's amazing. Thank you for sharing
[10:57] that.
[10:58] >> Anytime.
[10:58] >> That was really good. I would say mine
[11:00] was
[11:01] very different in the sense that I was
[11:04] always driven by athletics. And so, I am
[11:09] incredibly competitive, and so I found a
[11:12] sense of
[11:13] belonging through sports, a sense of
[11:15] identity through sports. I was always
[11:17] involved in some team.
[11:19] Um and that didn't always mean that it
[11:20] was easy. I still I mean, I had to
[11:22] transfer high schools. I I struggled
[11:24] from a friendship standpoint because
[11:25] again, I was not interested in the
[11:27] things that made you cool at that time.
[11:30] But, being in sports at least helped,
[11:31] right? You You had that basic level
[11:33] group. I would say that for me, my
[11:35] journey really evolved when being in
[11:39] sports and being at the top of my game
[11:41] or ultimately at the top of my career as
[11:44] I continued as a broadcaster, when I
[11:46] didn't have that is when I started to
[11:48] realize who am I without being on a
[11:53] team, who am I without being a captain,
[11:55] who am I without being
[11:56] a reporter in the NHL and covering
[11:59] hockey. Like
[12:00] all of those things are just my job. You
[12:03] know, being an athlete was a job, being
[12:04] a reporter was a job, and so
[12:06] >> who am I really? Yeah.
[12:07] >> Yes, and I started to realize that like
[12:09] my entire identity centered only around
[12:11] that and it started to feel really
[12:13] overwhelming and very lonely. And when
[12:17] you don't have confidence in those
[12:18] things, then you have confidence in
[12:20] nothing. And I am a confident person,
[12:22] but I was losing it when I lost that
[12:23] identity. And it led me to
[12:28] kind of
[12:29] have that moment of like self-reflection
[12:31] of like what am I doing? And so that's
[12:33] when \[clears throat\] I really leaned
[12:35] into God and figuring out what what was
[12:39] our relationship, what was my purpose
[12:41] for him, not my purpose for
[12:43] a career and and just kind of separating
[12:46] that and and figuring out ultimately
[12:48] that there was so much more
[12:50] to being alive than just whatever you
[12:55] were doing on a work day, right? I would
[12:56] introduce myself to people about my job
[12:59] first thing out of my mouth would be
[13:01] what I was doing for a career. And now
[13:03] I'm who I am. I'm I'm Katie and I can
[13:06] introduce myself knowing that I have a
[13:08] relationship with Jesus and that is
[13:10] actually the most important thing. And
[13:12] so that was really what drove me. And it
[13:14] and it required me really losing a lot
[13:16] of those things
[13:18] to have to do that work, right? And and
[13:21] and and ways that I wasn't at times
[13:23] ready to lose them, but they were they
[13:25] they taken from me and in some ways I
[13:27] feel like ultimately that was God
[13:29] forcing me
[13:30] >> Mhm.
[13:30] >> to meet him and to to think more about
[13:33] who I was in that way and and what my
[13:36] relationship with him was like and how
[13:38] that mattered more than who I was
[13:40] on TV.
[13:41] >> So.
[13:42] >> And now you kill it as Katie the person
[13:44] and as Katie
[13:45] >> the online host and podcast.
[13:46] >> host and \[laughter\] podcast, yeah.
[13:48] Katie the storyteller.
[13:49] >> Yes. That was great. Well, thank you for
[13:52] sharing. I'm glad we got to share that.
[13:53] Hopefully everyone that's watching
[13:55] you know, feels
[13:56] like you know, wherever you are in your
[13:58] life that you have a good story to tell
[13:59] because like you said Dom that the most
[14:01] important thing about a testimony is
[14:03] that Jesus is a part of it. All right.
[14:05] So, let's talk about on the topic of
[14:08] careers even though I just said how
[14:10] important it is not to focus on just
[14:12] that. \[laughter\] You became a pastor.
[14:14] >> I did.
[14:15] >> So, how'd that happen?
[14:16] >> Well, it's kind of funny.
[14:18] Um and I want to hear how Katie
[14:22] became the online storyteller.
[14:24] >> Yes.
[14:25] >> Anyway, um yeah, no, I
[14:27] uh well, I like very much idolized my
[14:30] youth pastor.
[14:31] >> Yeah.
[14:31] >> And originally I wanted to be a teacher
[14:32] and I was like, you know, my youth
[14:33] pastor is just like a teacher but about
[14:36] Jesus and he just gets to have fun. He
[14:39] comes to youth group, he has fun, he
[14:40] plays games, he goes on these fun
[14:42] retreats.
[14:42] >> that.
[14:43] >> I I was telling that to another group of
[14:44] like ministers and they were like,
[14:46] there's a spreadsheet in there somewhere
[14:48] that he doesn't \[laughter\] know about
[14:49] and I was right. Um there are
[14:51] spreadsheets still.
[14:53] But no, I was like I you know, started
[14:55] to think about if that's what I wanted
[14:57] to do.
[14:59] And I was praying about it. I'm not like
[15:01] a huge God told me kind of person.
[15:04] >> Yes. Okay.
[15:05] >> But I felt this um this sense that this
[15:09] is what I
[15:11] had to do in order to be fulfilled.
[15:14] >> Mhm.
[15:15] >> And I don't think everyone has that. I
[15:17] don't think you're more or less valuable
[15:19] if you don't but that's just what I
[15:20] experienced. I was like, I can't really
[15:22] picture myself doing anything else.
[15:23] >> Yeah.
[15:23] >> Um and that's kind of when I decided
[15:27] like, okay, I um
[15:29] thinking about going into ministry.
[15:30] >> Mhm.
[15:31] >> And then there was this big conference
[15:32] and at it they like, you know, it's such
[15:35] a youth group thing, but they're like,
[15:36] at the end they say, "Stand up if you
[15:38] chose to follow Jesus at this
[15:39] conference." And the people stand up and
[15:40] everyone claps.
[15:41] >> Yeah.
[15:41] >> And then they say, "Stand up if you
[15:42] decide to go into ministry." And
[15:44] everyone's
[15:45] they stand up
[15:45] >> Yeah.
[15:46] >> and everyone claps. And then the person
[15:48] said, "Would you stay standing if that
[15:50] was the last applause that you got?" And
[15:52] everyone's like, "Oh, wow."
[15:53] >> Wow.
[15:54] >> kind of this idea that it's a thankless
[15:56] job. And I want to say,
[15:57] >> Yeah.
[15:58] >> people are very thankful of \[laughter\]
[15:59] pastors. People are so appreciative
[16:02] >> Yes.
[16:02] >> and um and
[16:04] >> But it was it was kind of a cool
[16:05] experience of like, will you still do
[16:07] this if it's not all fun and games, if
[16:10] it's not um yeah, just like having fun,
[16:13] having playing video games and having
[16:15] pizza with with people you love.
[16:17] >> Yeah, when it's not for like the glory
[16:19] of
[16:19] >> Yeah.
[16:19] >> for yourself.
[16:20] >> Yeah, any type of attention either,
[16:21] right?
[16:22] >> was kind \[clears throat\] of like a, oh,
[16:23] I I wonder if this is still something
[16:25] that I want to do. And I prayed about it
[16:27] and continued to uh want to do it. So,
[16:30] went to seminary um
[16:32] and met, you know, some of my closest
[16:34] friends, met my wife and um I have loved
[16:36] it. So.
[16:37] >> That's awesome.
[16:37] >> Yeah.
[16:38] >> Very cool.
[16:38] >> What about you? How did how did Katie
[16:40] become the online host {slash} creative
[16:43] storyteller?
[16:44] >> Well,
[16:44] >> Is that your job \[laughter\] description?
[16:46] I'm sorry.
[16:48] >> We People have reached out to me.
[16:49] They're like, "Hey, we're going to make
[16:50] you like a business card. Like, what
[16:51] should we call you? Or like, what should
[16:52] we put on the website?" It's changed.
[16:53] It's evolved. But that's kind of the
[16:55] best part about this job is that I get
[16:57] to wear all these different hats and be
[16:59] useful everywhere. But yes, when I
[17:00] applied for the job, it was a
[17:02] um what was it? A digital storyteller, I
[17:05] believe, and content creator, something
[17:07] along those lines. So,
[17:09] for me,
[17:10] I knew that I wanted to keep using the
[17:12] skills that I have. I wouldn't be
[17:14] fulfilled if
[17:16] I just took like a 9-to-5 and was doing
[17:17] something completely different. Like,
[17:19] you know, there is there's a level of
[17:21] vanity in it because like I really do
[17:22] like being on camera and you have to
[17:24] have a little bit of, you know, the
[17:26] confidence to to enjoy that. Um, I do
[17:29] like I like being seen, but I wanted to
[17:32] do it in a way that was more meaningful,
[17:34] right? And that was where I was
[17:36] wrestling with what job exists that I
[17:38] can still feel like I'm using the gifts
[17:40] and talents that God gave me,
[17:41] recognizing that, you know, he made me
[17:43] good at this for a reason. What is that
[17:45] reason? Uh, I'm still figuring it out to
[17:48] be completely honest, you know, it's not
[17:49] perfect, but when I saw this job, it
[17:52] checked so many boxes of
[17:54] being meaningful, making a difference,
[17:57] but still fulfilling who I am and
[17:59] knowing that I'm going to use these
[18:01] skills in a different way.
[18:03] Um, and that's certainly how I pitched
[18:05] myself, but it's it's always it's always
[18:08] changing. Um, but that was something
[18:09] that just really drew it to me was that
[18:11] um, and I I I I prayed a lot about it. I
[18:14] was reading a book called like Your
[18:15] Purpose Is Calling, which I really
[18:17] enjoy. I'll share that with you guys
[18:18] sometime, but um,
[18:21] and when I interviewed and I it was one
[18:23] of those things where I was just like,
[18:24] "God, if this is right for me,
[18:25] you know, just just make it too good to
[18:28] deny." And and it it became that. And
[18:30] and it just became something that I knew
[18:31] I had to to try and I had to do. Um, but
[18:34] it's a very unique path and
[18:37] >> \[laughter\]
[18:37] >> I know like with I think the biggest
[18:39] challenge when taking it was explaining
[18:41] to like friends and family who only knew
[18:43] me as hockey Katie. Like, "What are you
[18:46] doing? You're working? Okay. All right.
[18:49] But you're still on camera, so that's
[18:50] great. You're doing And now all the
[18:52] things that I post on my Instagram that
[18:53] was hockey related are now church
[18:55] related and they still like and share."
[18:58] So, when we first started posting
[19:00] things, there was like the Katie bump we
[19:02] called it where all of my people from
[19:03] sports world were liking all of our
[19:06] Grace Chapel content. They're like, "Are
[19:08] we really doing a good job or is this
[19:09] just all of my followers from \[laughter\]
[19:11] my other life?"
[19:12] >> It's both.
[19:13] >> It's
[19:13] >> good. It's good. We'll take the love
[19:15] anyway we can get it. Um I love that.
[19:18] All right. Well, let's wrap up this
[19:19] conversation. There's so many good
[19:20] things to talk about.
[19:22] What was maybe a moment on your faith
[19:24] journey, and everybody has these. Maybe
[19:26] it was while you were deciding to be a
[19:28] pastor or as you were going through
[19:29] seminary, but was there ever like a
[19:31] challenge in that journey? Was there
[19:33] ever a moment you questioned, you know,
[19:35] >> 100%.
[19:36] >> Yeah.
[19:37] >> Um yeah, I mean like I said this once uh
[19:40] bit ago, um but like I feel like I will
[19:43] always be kind of like a doubtful
[19:44] skeptical person. Like since I wasn't
[19:46] like super religious growing up, it's
[19:48] still bizarre to me that like
[19:50] I would be considered religious, which
[19:51] is like really bizarre because I'm a
[19:53] pastor. And I know how silly that
[19:55] sounds, but um
[19:57] yeah, I mean like I think um when life
[20:00] gets hard, it causes us to question
[20:01] things.
[20:02] >> And I had a moment um in college where I
[20:07] really like lost my faith. A lot of
[20:10] people who've went through that talk
[20:12] about this trapdoor feeling where it
[20:14] literally feels like a trapdoor is
[20:16] pulled out from under you.
[20:17] >> Yeah.
[20:17] >> And I was at this concert. I remember
[20:20] like looking around, everyone was having
[20:22] so much fun, and I like looked up into
[20:24] the sky. Um yeah, calling back to people
[20:27] look up at the stars.
[20:28] >> Mhm.
[20:29] >> And what would usually give me comfort,
[20:30] um the sense that like God is big and
[20:32] wonderful, I had this thought where I
[20:34] realized I will never know with 100%
[20:37] certainty that God exists. And that was
[20:40] kind of the trapdoor moment.
[20:41] >> Yeah.
[20:41] >> And I was like, "Wow, I don't believe
[20:45] this anymore. This is bizarre."
[20:46] >> Yeah, you're like, "What what am I
[20:47] doing?"
[20:48] >> Yeah, and so I need to have the good
[20:50] ending cuz I went to church the next
[20:51] day.
[20:52] >> And my pastor was preaching a message,
[20:55] and \[clears throat\] he
[20:56] talked about um
[20:58] like essentially the same exact thing.
[21:01] Like he had a moment where he questioned
[21:04] everything, lost his faith, and how God,
[21:07] like, essentially moved in his life to
[21:10] bring him to a deeper place.
[21:12] >> Mhm.
[21:12] >> I was like, "Oh my gosh, that's exactly
[21:14] what I'm going through."
[21:15] >> And you needed to hear it at that exact
[21:17] moment.
[21:18] >> so, like, my faith looks so different
[21:19] afterwards, but um yeah, the fact that
[21:22] God was there, God was with me,
[21:25] um
[21:26] even in the uncertainty, right? Um I
[21:28] think that is um I think that's like
[21:31] a place where God has been really
[21:33] consistent in my life. That like even in
[21:35] the uncertainty, even when there are no
[21:37] answers to a lot of our questions, um
[21:40] like he is there and he's with us. Um
[21:42] yeah. What about you?
[21:43] >> Amen, that's good. I would say my
[21:47] my questions came more in the form of
[21:49] challenges, and it was sort of I think I
[21:52] I kind of alluded to this earlier, but
[21:53] it was an opportunity to
[21:56] either lean into it further and to
[21:58] embrace that God was putting me through
[22:00] these struggles and challenging my
[22:02] entire identity to its core, because he
[22:04] wanted to draw me closer,
[22:06] or it could have just set me into a
[22:08] spiral where I say, "Why are all these
[22:11] bad things happening?" And I go the
[22:13] completely opposite direction. And in
[22:15] this case, I did lean into it. But it
[22:18] it's it's just kind of a good moment to
[22:21] to realize that so many people don't
[22:24] lean into it, and to understand that
[22:26] he's going to keep trying. And and and
[22:29] sometimes the way he tries to bring you
[22:31] into it might not be the way you want it
[22:34] to look.
[22:34] >> Yeah.
[22:35] >> And for me, certainly, having my whole,
[22:37] you know, kind of career feel like it
[22:39] was falling apart in a way, leading me
[22:41] to something greater,
[22:43] if you don't if you don't appreciate
[22:45] that God is in it, then you may not
[22:48] get out of it what you need. And I think
[22:51] that's huge.
[22:51] >> I think that like on top of that, I
[22:53] think that the wrestling is the point.
[22:55] Like there's this story in the Bible of
[22:58] um Jacob, and he's like at a crossroads
[23:01] in his life.
[23:03] Um and this it's described as like this
[23:06] man this like angel of the Lord or
[23:08] something it starts like wrestling with
[23:09] him and like they wrestle all night.
[23:11] >> Yeah.
[23:11] >> Um and Jacob
[23:14] uh said like kind of gets this guy in a
[23:15] grapple and it's like I will not let you
[23:17] go until you bless me. And that whole
[23:19] time it was God. And it's like what does
[23:22] this story mean? And for me I and that
[23:25] um I think that
[23:26] that the wrestling um the struggling and
[23:30] the you know the growing but like not
[23:32] having all the answers wrestling with
[23:34] these questions of like coming to these
[23:37] crossroads. Like I think the wrestling
[23:39] is the point and those are the moments
[23:40] where we meet God right? Yeah.
[23:43] >> That's awesome. Oh and it's like the
[23:44] seasons even in between where you feel
[23:46] like nothing is happening
[23:48] something \[clears throat\] is happening.
[23:49] And I went through that was my kind of
[23:51] struggle in between where I where I was
[23:53] and where I am now was the time
[23:56] of the wandering and and wondering and
[23:58] that's again where you can make a choice
[24:00] to feel like
[24:02] it doesn't feel like he's here so he
[24:03] must not be or he is and I just have to
[24:06] stick with it and keep trusting. And
[24:08] that that can be the hardest part when
[24:10] nothing feels like it's happening.
[24:11] Almost like sometimes when you're
[24:12] struggling
[24:14] at least something's going on.
[24:16] It's like when there's absolutely
[24:17] nothing happening and you're just like
[24:19] floating.
[24:20] >> What am I doing? Yeah.
[24:20] >> Yes and that is that part is sometimes
[24:23] the scariest but
[24:25] This was great. Today we definitely went
[24:27] a little bit less nerdy and got real.
[24:30] Um one of this is my favorite episode
[24:32] for sure that we've done and we will
[24:33] continue to tell great stories and we'll
[24:35] have guests join us and share more about
[24:37] their lives and their faith. But Tom
[24:39] that does it for what's your faith
[24:41] journey. Thank you everyone for watching
[24:43] as always we will be back with more on
[24:45] the Christian journey in our next
[24:47] episode.
[24:48] >> \[music\]

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