# Grace Out Loud Ep. 4 — What is Salvation?

An episode of [🎙 Grace Out Loud](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/6794405665), 14 Apr 2026, 21 min.

Audio: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/cteyf2yryi2z3e7p/yt_video_yw0zehQrjuU.mp4

What is Salvation? | Grace Out Loud: Episode 4 In the final installment of our Faith Basics series, we’re tackling the "big one": Salvation. It’s a topic that could take five minutes or ten years to unpack, but we’re diving into the heart of what it means to be "saved," the reality of the Kingdom of God, and why our imagination matters when we think about the afterlife. We move past the fiery layers of Dante’s Inferno and look at what the Bible actually says about heaven and hell—focusing on the concepts of unity versus separation. Plus, we explore C.S. Lewis’s "The Great Divorce," the "Already/Not Yet" nature of God's Kingdom, and a very important discussion about whether red pandas and dolphins (and our beloved pets) make the cut for eternity. In This Episode, We Discuss: The Dinner Party Icebreaker: From Morgan Freeman’s voice to Adam Sandler’s comedies. Hell vs. Gehenna: Distinguishing between pop culture’s version of the afterlife and the biblical reality of separation. Orientation Over Labels: Why following Jesus is more about the direction you’re facing than which "circle" you’re in. The Already/Not Yet: How the Kingdom of God is present in our communities today while we wait for its completion. Pets in Heaven: C.S. Lewis’s perspective on the immortality of our animals and the "Rainbow Bridge."

## Transcript

[0:03] Wherever you go,
[0:05] wherever you stay,
[0:07] don't you forget that love is always
[0:09] coming your way.
[0:11] No matter how far,
[0:13] how broken you are,
[0:15] don't you forget that love is always
[0:17] coming your way.
[0:19] What is up everyone? Welcome to Grace
[0:21] Out Loud.
[0:23] >> Episode four?
[0:23] >> Episode four, and we are so happy that
[0:26] you're here joining us for this podcast
[0:28] about conversations about faith that you
[0:31] don't hear on Sundays. We are talking
[0:33] about all of the good things, but right
[0:35] now we are actually in the final
[0:37] episode, episode four, but our final
[0:38] episode in our series on faith basics.
[0:42] And Dom, we've been, you know, really
[0:44] just breezing over some easy subjects to
[0:46] kick things off. Talking about, you
[0:47] know, the Bible, the resurrection. So,
[0:49] why not one more quick topic to just go
[0:53] through salvation. Probably something
[0:57] that we could spend
[0:57] >> wrapped up in five minutes.
[0:58] >> five minutes or 10 years. If you really
[1:01] want to break it down, there's a lot of
[1:02] ways to approach this.
[1:04] Um, but before we get into that, as
[1:05] usual, we've got a fun little icebreaker
[1:07] that kind of ties into our whole theme
[1:08] today. So, if you could have dinner with
[1:10] three famous people, alive or dead, who
[1:14] would they be? Hm. Um, so, the number
[1:18] one, obviously, like you have to say
[1:19] Jesus, right?
[1:20] >> Yes.
[1:21] Our faith podcast and you don't say
[1:22] Jesus, now you're in trouble. Um,
[1:25] there's an artist that I really like
[1:27] that a lot of artists have been really
[1:29] impacted by that actually died in 2022.
[1:32] His name's Kim Jung Gi and he's like a
[1:33] very, very prolific artist. He only
[1:36] draws with pen and ink and his like
[1:38] knowledge of how to draw is incredible.
[1:41] So, probably him um, and then like
[1:44] I don't know why.
[1:46] I don't even watch a lot of his movies,
[1:47] but Morgan Freeman. I It's just the
[1:49] first name
[1:50] >> alone. You could just sit there the
[1:51] whole dinner and let him read the menu
[1:53] and it would be incredible.
[1:55] Go to like Olive Garden or with a giant
[1:57] menu and like Morgan just The Cheesecake
[1:59] Factory. Yeah, there you go.
[2:01] >> The whole dinner he just read that menu
[2:02] that's like 10 pages long. I love it.
[2:04] Okay, so you those are very good ones.
[2:05] >> you? What about you? Um
[2:07] So I was thinking about this and I want
[2:09] to sound like so interesting and be
[2:11] like, oh yes, this historical person or
[2:13] this and then I'm just like, you know
[2:14] what? What if I just am honest with
[2:16] myself and I say Jesus,
[2:18] >> Mhm.
[2:19] Will Ferrell Yep.
[2:20] >> and Adam Sandler
[2:22] because
[2:23] comedy movies are like 90% of what I do
[2:25] when I'm not working. They're always on
[2:27] in our house. I love it.
[2:28] >> your favorite Adam Sandler movie? Oh,
[2:31] that's a really, really difficult
[2:32] question.
[2:33] >> Because Cindy and I just watched Click
[2:35] and it's good.
[2:36] >> Yeah. No, that's not bad. I mean
[2:37] >> great movie. I feel like you have to
[2:39] just say Happy Gilmore because it's just
[2:42] Is it a hockey movie? Is it a golf
[2:44] movie? What is it? Um but Billy Madison
[2:46] is also excellent. I really like the old
[2:48] schools. I think they actually came in a
[2:50] box together with like both
[2:52] both VHS tapes were in there.
[2:54] >> the same character and made like three
[2:56] different movies off of that.
[2:57] >> Yeah. The other one that I would say um
[2:59] and I think this just came to my mind as
[3:00] I mentioned the word hockey but Herb
[3:02] Brooks who coached the 1980 Miracle on
[3:05] Ice team. Uh I would absolutely kill to
[3:08] have a dinner conversation with him.
[3:09] >> That's a good answer.
[3:10] >> That would be really neat.
[3:10] >> Good answer. Okay, good stuff. So
[3:12] obviously talking about all these
[3:13] wonderful figures in life, all these
[3:15] crazy things that we could imagine,
[3:17] what's one thing we spend more time than
[3:18] anything imagining?
[3:20] What's it going to be like after this?
[3:22] Salvation. But this is a topic that has
[3:25] so many different layers um and I just
[3:27] want to start it off by kind of
[3:30] giving us a verse to sort of just set
[3:31] the tone.
[3:32] One of the most popular of all time. You
[3:34] see it at sporting events. John 3:16
[3:37] through 18.
[3:38] Uh for God so loved the world that he
[3:41] gave his only son that whoever believes
[3:43] in him should not perish but have
[3:45] eternal life. For God did not send his
[3:48] son into the world to condemn the world
[3:50] but in order that the world might be
[3:51] saved through him.
[3:53] Whoever believes in him is not
[3:55] condemned, but whoever does not believe
[3:57] is condemned already because he has not
[3:59] believed in the name of the only Son of
[4:02] God. So, again, such a powerful verse
[4:06] says so much about
[4:08] who God is, why Jesus came, what he did
[4:10] for us, what it means moving forward for
[4:13] us, this concept of eternal life. So,
[4:16] how do we break this down as Christians,
[4:19] as believers?
[4:20] >> Yeah, absolutely.
[4:21] I think it's helpful to start off saying
[4:23] no one has this 100% figured out. I
[4:25] think that provides like an even playing
[4:27] field for everyone. And I'd love to hear
[4:29] what you think.
[4:30] But a lot of the imagery that we get of
[4:33] the afterlife doesn't come from the
[4:35] Bible, it comes from things like Dante's
[4:37] Inferno
[4:39] and and other things that just aren't in
[4:41] the Bible. When Jesus talks about the
[4:44] afterlife, he oftentimes will use um
[4:48] things that his audience, that that were
[4:50] living at that time, knew about. So,
[4:52] sometimes we'll translate hell
[4:55] or Gehenna as hell, and that's just the
[4:57] the city dump. It's where people would
[4:59] throw their trash. Um
[5:01] uh but overall, it was a place of
[5:02] separation, right? And then
[5:05] when we we think about heaven,
[5:08] Jesus uses a lot of metaphorical,
[5:11] symbolic imagery
[5:13] that doesn't give us like a clear
[5:15] picture.
[5:16] Um and so what we know is when he talks
[5:19] about uh
[5:22] being saved, it's being with God. It's
[5:24] being in right relationship with God.
[5:26] There's nothing separating us. Our sin
[5:28] doesn't separate us from God anymore.
[5:31] That he's taken that and we are one with
[5:34] him.
[5:35] And we can have that right now, and we
[5:37] can have that one day when he comes
[5:39] again.
[5:41] And the opposite is true
[5:43] for hell. It's separation.
[5:46] It is not being with God. It is being
[5:49] disconnected from God
[5:51] in a lot of the ways that our world is
[5:53] right now.
[5:55] But that bleakness that is communicated
[5:59] is a lack of unity with the source of
[6:02] our life, which is Jesus. Yeah. Well,
[6:05] and I mean you mentioned it and this is
[6:06] something that you had brought up when
[6:07] we were, you know, planning to talk
[6:09] about this concept through this episode,
[6:10] but Dante's hell versus the Bible's hell
[6:13] and you just I mean you really just kind
[6:15] of nailed it there. Separation I think
[6:16] is obviously the key word for it, but
[6:19] the fact that we have this super vivid
[6:21] depiction of not just one
[6:24] area of hell, but levels and layers and
[6:27] it's I I I think it leads us to as
[6:29] humans
[6:31] just kind of naturally start creating
[6:33] our own images for both and and kind of
[6:35] how does that sort of translate into the
[6:38] reality? Yeah. Well, I think there's
[6:40] like a lot of wishful thinking when it
[6:42] comes into it, right? Like
[6:44] but some of it's kind of scary like
[6:46] Uh when I was like younger I was like
[6:48] and asked my teachers like what is
[6:49] heaven like? And they're like, "Well,
[6:50] we'll be worshipping for like a million
[6:51] years." And I'm like, "I don't like
[6:54] singing." That that like and it would
[6:56] scare me. But everyone's Yeah, but
[6:58] that's kind of like how it's like, "Oh,
[6:59] everyone's heaven and hell are
[7:01] different."
[7:02] Because because we play forever might
[7:03] not be
[7:05] heavenly for you.
[7:07] >> But I think like since eternity isn't
[7:10] something that we can comprehend and
[7:11] we're not meant to comprehend it,
[7:13] we as people create our own images,
[7:16] right?
[7:17] We place our own hopes and our own wants
[7:19] in what it will look like, which is
[7:20] natural and I'm sure there's some
[7:22] some truth to that.
[7:24] It's actually why I like C.S. Lewis, so
[7:26] I brought my big C.S. Lewis book,
[7:29] complete classics.
[7:30] But he has a book called The Great
[7:31] Divorce. Yeah. And what I love about
[7:34] C.S. Lewis is he thinks that imagination
[7:38] can be just as true as nonfiction. And
[7:41] that's why he writes fantasy. that's why
[7:43] he
[7:44] um you know wrote wrote Narnia. But he
[7:45] has this book called The Great Divorce,
[7:48] which is an imaginative retelling of the
[7:51] afterlife. It's literally
[7:53] um somebody a character's dream about
[7:55] what the afterlife will look like. Wow.
[7:57] And in this story, there's a guy who's
[8:00] coming up from hell to see what heaven
[8:03] is like. What he finds out is that
[8:06] hell is too small for heaven to fit in.
[8:10] And that's why people can't come down
[8:13] there. It is It is just too small. They
[8:14] can't um they can't fit. It's It's more
[8:18] uh true, more real, um more solid than
[8:23] than can ever be imagined. Um and what I
[8:26] like about that is he's honest in that
[8:28] this is an imaginative retelling. We
[8:30] don't know what it's going to be like.
[8:32] Um and there's just some great
[8:33] theological concepts that he talks
[8:35] about. So, plug for The Great Divorce.
[8:37] It's a good book. Yes, I'll be bringing
[8:39] C.S. Lewis into the conversation as we
[8:41] wrap this up a little bit later as well.
[8:43] Um but I want to talk about something
[8:45] else that This was something I didn't
[8:47] really know anything about and started
[8:48] Googling because you had prompted me
[8:50] with a topic idea, and that is this
[8:52] concept of already not yet.
[8:55] >> Yes. And as I started reading it, it
[8:57] started to make perfect sense. But this
[8:59] concept of the kingdom of God and the
[9:01] kingdom being present now, but will only
[9:04] be completely physically and visibly
[9:05] completed when Jesus returns, salvation
[9:08] and how we are saved through
[9:11] justification, but we're waiting for our
[9:12] final liberation through glorification,
[9:15] and then sanctification that is just,
[9:17] you know, that continuous battle with
[9:19] sin currently until the not yet arrives,
[9:22] and where we all are as believers in
[9:23] this world that relies upon our faith,
[9:26] you know, our the gift of the Holy
[9:27] Spirit. So,
[9:29] talk to me a little bit about the
[9:30] already not yet.
[9:31] >> Sure. Um I think the The Bible Project
[9:34] has a good They have a really good video
[9:36] on this. So, Their videos are awesome.
[9:38] >> Yeah, plug for the Bible Project. Um
[9:40] but they they talk about it um like the
[9:43] kingdom. And that's the thing Jesus
[9:45] talks about the most. Uh more than
[9:47] anything else he talks about the kingdom
[9:48] of God is here. It is with you right
[9:50] now. That him coming and being on Earth
[9:53] brings the kingdom. And so when we are
[9:57] saved, when we are united with God, um
[10:01] we become little pockets of the kingdom.
[10:04] And we can create this countercultural
[10:06] community that while our base needs are
[10:10] like
[10:11] help me survive, help me live, make me
[10:13] the best person. Um the kingdom
[10:15] community actually looks for the
[10:17] interest of others. Um they love one
[10:19] another, they forgive one another, they
[10:21] share their their resources.
[10:24] Um
[10:25] And the depiction we get and most of
[10:27] most importantly they're founded on
[10:29] Jesus and united with God.
[10:31] >> But the depiction we get is these little
[10:32] pockets of kingdom communities that
[10:35] slowly um start to impact the world
[10:38] around them. And uh in Acts we get the
[10:42] clearest depiction of this. It says all
[10:44] of the believers were in one mind. They
[10:46] were united with with Jesus and they
[10:47] took everything they had, they put it in
[10:49] the middle, and then they dispersed it.
[10:52] Um so that there was no one who had
[10:54] need. Yeah. And so this community loves
[10:56] one another. They do not uplift
[10:58] themselves first and foremost. They care
[11:00] for one another.
[11:01] Um they advocate for a more just, more
[11:03] whole world. And that's what it means to
[11:07] live in the kingdom now. Um but it also
[11:10] means that we can look ahead because the
[11:12] world isn't perfect. And our kingdoms
[11:14] aren't perfect. Um
[11:15] if you've ever been at to a church,
[11:17] you're like, oh man, they are not doing
[11:18] it 100% right, right? Yeah, everybody's
[11:20] got, you know, flaws, right?
[11:22] >> why we um we have grace with one
[11:24] another, but we look to a a perfect
[11:28] future that is not yet arrived and seek
[11:30] to get there. Um that's the the not yet.
[11:33] >> The not yet is Jesus coming back and
[11:35] that's part of why I think it's
[11:37] important to think about these things
[11:39] and it's sort of like you know, the
[11:41] human condition that you want to live in
[11:43] and the way that you want to prepare
[11:45] yourself to to be ready for him. I think
[11:48] we joke about it like if you're having
[11:50] like a big family gathering and your mom
[11:51] is like screaming at you to clean your
[11:53] room and you're like, "Why do I have to
[11:54] clean my room? No one's going to go
[11:55] upstairs. Like why would they why would
[11:57] they go check what my closet looks like?
[11:58] That's weird, right?" But it's kind of
[12:01] just the the idea of being fully
[12:03] prepared, living in a way and having a
[12:06] heart and a and a mind and a soul that
[12:08] is prepared for for that moment. A
[12:10] perfect
[12:11] preparation for the perfect person
[12:13] coming and and just the way that maybe
[12:16] we have to approach the concept of being
[12:18] ready for salvation.
[12:19] >> Yeah. Yeah, and so if I could talk a
[12:22] little bit here about how I used to view
[12:24] it and how I view it now. Um and this is
[12:26] a concept I'm stealing from Brian
[12:28] Wilkerson. Yes. Uh-huh. Copyright.
[12:30] Copyright. Trademark. Copyright. Thank
[12:32] you, Brian. But he he kind of said this
[12:35] and it really clicked for me, but um I
[12:37] used to view it and maybe a diagram will
[12:40] help, but I used to view it as
[12:41] >> We'll get you a diagram.
[12:42] >> Yes. Um there's a circle and in that
[12:44] circle is Jesus and the people with
[12:47] Jesus are in that circle. Yeah. And our
[12:49] job is to get everybody outside that
[12:51] circle in into
[12:53] Yeah.
[12:53] >> the the box, right?
[12:55] I don't view it that way anymore. Now, I
[12:57] think we are all living life and Jesus
[12:59] is here.
[13:01] And some of us are oriented directly at
[13:04] him. Some of us are oriented kind of
[13:06] towards him, a little bit away, and some
[13:07] of us are oriented in the opposite
[13:09] direction.
[13:11] My job is to be so oriented towards
[13:13] Jesus that I am I'm focusing and
[13:15] fixating on living like him, on
[13:18] following him. Yeah. And in doing that,
[13:21] the people around me will hopefully say,
[13:23] "What does that person have? That seems
[13:25] like a full way to live. Um, and by by
[13:29] being pointed towards Jesus, I'm much
[13:31] more concerned with him than of how
[13:33] everyone else is living.
[13:35] Um,
[13:36] and so I have a verse that I think kind
[13:38] of encapsulates that. Um, it's from
[13:40] Matthew. It's in Matthew 7. Okay. And it
[13:42] says, "Do not judge or you two will be
[13:44] judged. For in the same way you judge
[13:46] others, you will be judged, and with the
[13:47] measure you use, it will be measured to
[13:49] you. Why do you look at the speck of
[13:51] sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no
[13:53] attention to the plank in your own eye."
[13:55] And what I the reason I say that is
[13:58] because I think it's human to want to
[14:00] separate ourselves into different camps,
[14:03] and to to different circles.
[14:04] >> Yeah. Um,
[14:06] but what Jesus did is any line that we
[14:08] drew in the sand, he crossed it and went
[14:10] to the other direction.
[14:12] Um, and so if we think of it more as we
[14:14] need to be oriented towards Jesus, that
[14:17] helps us be less concerned with where
[14:19] other people are at and just more
[14:20] concerned with with God.
[14:22] When you talk about that, it makes me
[14:23] think of first just like how do we take
[14:28] such a beautiful concept, but truly make
[14:30] it apply to everyday life, right? Cuz
[14:32] hearing that it sounds
[14:35] great. It sounds so simple, right? Like
[14:37] if I'm just living in a way that is
[14:39] going to inspire others and they're
[14:40] going to see what I'm doing, but it's
[14:42] not that easy, right? It it I mean
[14:45] that's the human existence. But we could
[14:47] talk about that for another episode. Um,
[14:49] but just
[14:50] I don't know, being part of a church
[14:51] community right here working at Grace
[14:53] Chapel. Like what are what are the the
[14:55] ways that on any given Sunday you can
[14:57] have that impact. We talk a lot about
[14:59] the concept of, you know, preparing for
[15:01] the kingdom, making disciples.
[15:04] >> Yeah. But maybe it doesn't always have
[15:06] to go that far. Maybe it's just living a
[15:09] life that people can see from afar and
[15:12] be influenced by without even realizing
[15:13] it.
[15:14] >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I I think it's a
[15:16] both and. Like we have we have to if we
[15:18] love Jesus, we're going to talk about
[15:20] him. And we're going to tell people
[15:21] about him. But, um, I think there is
[15:24] some emphasis that we can place on on
[15:27] living like Jesus and being less focused
[15:30] on how others act and more focused on
[15:33] how aligned are we with God.
[15:37] Yeah. I like it. Now, what What do you
[15:39] think?
[15:40] I I agree with you. I think it's one of
[15:42] those things that's just so hard to
[15:44] to do. And then And one of the series
[15:47] that we're going to have coming up on
[15:48] this podcast that I'm really looking
[15:49] forward to. I've already kind of
[15:50] scripted it out. It's going to be called
[15:52] um
[15:52] when it's hard to Christian. And I feel
[15:55] like this conversation is going to be
[15:57] awesome for all of that. Little plug for
[16:00] the future to keep you guys keep you
[16:02] guys coming back and tuning in. Um but I
[16:04] am looking forward to breaking down what
[16:06] it's like to live a life that's worthy
[16:09] of salvation, but also acknowledge the
[16:11] fact that it's really just hard to be
[16:12] human all a lot of the time. And being a
[16:16] follower of Jesus and living a life that
[16:18] is, you know,
[16:20] aligned with what he would want, right?
[16:23] So, we'll save that one for another day,
[16:25] but I I definitely I like the concept
[16:28] ultimately that we will have a beautiful
[16:29] diagram to highlight
[16:31] Let's all just try to angle ourselves
[16:33] like a plant that is seeking the
[16:35] sunlight. We We need to be pointing
[16:37] towards Jesus, okay? If I could
[16:40] put a little close on that, maybe the
[16:42] diagram. But, Jesus has completed the
[16:45] work.
[16:46] We can rest in the fact that
[16:49] it's all about him and what he did and
[16:52] there's nothing that can separate us
[16:54] from the love of God. I think we covered
[16:56] a lot of it bunch, right?
[16:58] That's That's a really good final note.
[17:00] Okay, so the final
[17:02] conversation I want to have, and I
[17:03] didn't ask you this icebreaker cuz we
[17:05] got so into our conversation about
[17:07] famous people, so I'm going to throw it
[17:08] in now and then we'll we'll
[17:10] we'll see if it makes any sense with my
[17:11] final discussion for you. But, if you
[17:13] could have any exotic animal as a pet,
[17:15] what would it be? Um I would say a red
[17:18] panda because they're very cute.
[17:20] >> goofy. And they have no um they have no
[17:23] survival instinct, so they just like
[17:25] fall over if you see videos of them.
[17:27] >> very goofy. I like it. Um, I would
[17:29] probably pick a really impractical one
[17:31] and that would be a dolphin, which would
[17:33] require me to live on the water or have
[17:35] like a casual like SeaWorld type setup
[17:37] in my backyard.
[17:38] >> dolphins are villains. I think they're
[17:40] bullies. No, because they Have you ever
[17:42] seen Flipper? They save the boys from
[17:45] the shark.
[17:45] >> All right, I'll watch Flipper. Watch
[17:47] Flipper.
[17:48] I've always thought dolphins were
[17:49] awesome. They're super smart though, so
[17:50] maybe that would be a tough one. Like
[17:51] they would end up actually just like
[17:53] taking over my home and my life. Um, but
[17:55] the reason I ask this and we've
[17:57] obviously been having this whole
[17:58] discussion about
[17:59] salvation and what heaven's going to be
[18:01] like and everyone has their own image of
[18:03] that and of hell, but
[18:05] do dogs go to heaven, right? Do cats go
[18:09] to heaven, right? We There's the movie,
[18:10] right? All dogs go to heaven.
[18:12] >> Yeah. And I think this is where I have
[18:14] my pull from C.S. Lewis. It comes from
[18:17] the problem of pain and The Great
[18:18] Divorce, but he touches on his belief
[18:21] that pets will join us in our next life.
[18:23] He did not believe animals are
[18:26] inherently immortal and they don't have
[18:28] human souls, but rather that they can
[18:30] become that way in the immortality of
[18:32] their masters. That's from his writing,
[18:35] so
[18:36] I kind of just sort of summarize by the
[18:38] thought of, okay, well, if a pet is
[18:39] needed for a person's
[18:41] human happiness and a person's happiness
[18:44] in heaven, then maybe God will allow it
[18:46] in this beautiful kingdom. And there's,
[18:48] you know, having worked in animal
[18:49] rescue, there's a very popular concept
[18:51] of the Rainbow Bridge. Okay. And when a
[18:53] pet passes away, they go across the
[18:55] Rainbow Bridge and Oh. Again, ultimately
[18:58] I think this is a lot of just like human
[19:00] comforting ourselves, but I personally
[19:03] love the idea that they're all going to
[19:05] be there hanging out and waiting and
[19:07] that it heaven is this ultimately happy
[19:09] place and that for me Yeah. has to have
[19:12] dogs. Yeah, I mean like this is a dumb
[19:14] thought. I mean most of what I all
[19:15] everything I say is a dumb thought. I
[19:16] don't
[19:17] Grace Chapel-ify any of what I say, but
[19:19] I mean like I think a new a new creation
[19:22] um will have the creation that exists,
[19:25] right? Yeah. That's what I think. So
[19:26] that can also include red pandas and
[19:28] dolphins and all
[19:30] the exotic animals. Lots of good stuff.
[19:33] Yeah. Again, I think it's just I mean
[19:35] especially like
[19:37] when we think about a lot of the ways
[19:39] that Jesus spoke, he would talk about
[19:40] like a childlike faith. And I kind of
[19:42] think that when I think about heaven, I
[19:44] still go back to thinking about it
[19:45] almost the way that I would have as a
[19:47] kid. And the childlike me would just
[19:49] imagine this beautiful imagery
[19:51] surrounded by all of the things that
[19:54] made you happy, right? What's your
[19:55] favorite things in the world? That that
[19:56] would be there. Um but
[19:59] like you said earlier on, the ultimate
[20:01] point is that there's no separation from
[20:03] God. And if you're with God, then it
[20:07] won't matter what's there because you're
[20:08] with him. Yep. There we go. That's the
[20:10] best way to I think that's a good thing
[20:11] to end on. Yeah.
[20:13] That's all that That's a wrap. We solved
[20:14] salvation. No, we didn't, but we
[20:16] certainly had a great conversation about
[20:18] it. Um really good stuff as always, Dom.
[20:20] Thank you so much for chatting with me.
[20:22] We are wrapping up our series on faith
[20:24] basics. That is it. So we look forward
[20:27] to bringing you a new series very soon
[20:29] with episode 5 of Grace at Loud. Thank
[20:31] you as always for listening, for
[20:33] watching, for joining us, for being a
[20:35] part of our Grace Chapel community here
[20:38] with our podcast, Dom. Yeah. Yep. Thank
[20:40] you guys and we will see you all next
[20:42] time.
[20:44] love is always coming your way.

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