# Simply Catholicism is the Answer - Bishop Barron's Daily Sermon

An episode of [Daily Sermons With Bishop Robert Barron](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/6783446284), 12 Jul 2026, 29 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72754538/simply_catholicism_is_the_answer.mp3



## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Well, sure, I'm a culture warrior and I'm a culture
[0:02] Speaker 1: celebrator at the same time, because I've got a mind
[0:07] Speaker 1: and heart big enough to take in both these elements.
[0:10] Speaker 1: The trouble with these warring factions in their self regarding
[0:15] Speaker 1: stupidity is that they can't make that move. Cardinal George
[0:19] Speaker 1: understood this, and all the figures I mentioned understood this,
[0:23] Speaker 1: and that's the equilibrium that we're losing today, I fear,
[0:27] Speaker 1: and why we need someone like him to remind us.
[0:38] Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Word on Fire Show. I'm Brandon Vat,
[0:42] Speaker 2: the host and the senior publishing director at Word on Fire.
[0:45] Speaker 2: The Catholic Church seems locked in constant disagreement, often between
[0:50] Speaker 2: so called liberal Catholics and conservative Catholics. But is there
[0:54] Speaker 2: a third way to lead us out of this quagmire? Well,
[0:58] Speaker 2: the late Cardinal Francis George offered a compelling answer, and
[1:02] Speaker 2: it's one that we'll discuss today with one of his
[1:05] Speaker 2: great mentees, Bishop Robert Baron, who joins us now from Rochester, Minnesota. Bishop,
[1:10] Speaker 2: good to see you.
[1:11] Speaker 1: Hey, Brandon, always good to see you.
[1:14] Speaker 2: It is a new year, which means a new season
[1:16] Speaker 2: of our Bishop Baron Presents series. You've been recording a
[1:19] Speaker 2: number of these, which we're going to roll out if
[1:21] Speaker 2: they haven't already rolled out already. I wanted to ask
[1:24] Speaker 2: you about a couple that you recently recorded. One was
[1:26] Speaker 2: with the great father Joseph Fessio. Tell us about that discussion.
[1:31] Speaker 1: It was delight Yeah. Of course, he's the founder of
[1:33] Speaker 1: Ignacious Press and a man who personally knew Amrey de
[1:36] Speaker 1: Lubac and Hansers von Baltazar and Joseph Rotzinger, and it
[1:40] Speaker 1: is probably the one in our country most responsible for
[1:42] Speaker 1: bringing their thought into the mainstream. So we talked a
[1:46] Speaker 1: lot about those relationships. I found that fascinating. What was
[1:49] Speaker 1: it like to be with Baltazarre and what was it
[1:52] Speaker 1: like to be in a seminar with Rotzinger. The story
[1:56] Speaker 1: I found very moving. Was he the older Amrey de Lubac.
[1:59] Speaker 1: He was as the old man at this time, and
[2:02] Speaker 1: Fescio had arrived in Paris after the long journey. He
[2:04] Speaker 1: wanted to say mass. He's in the Lubauq's apartment where
[2:08] Speaker 1: there's a small chapel, and he said, next to him,
[2:11] Speaker 1: knelt Cardinal de Lubac, humbly serving his mass and so
[2:16] Speaker 1: I just love those stories, and we those and many more.
[2:20] Speaker 1: I was able to get out of father Fessio. So
[2:22] Speaker 1: I loved it.
[2:23] Speaker 2: So if that one hasn't already aired, we'll be sure
[2:25] Speaker 2: to share it on YouTube, and then we'll add the
[2:27] Speaker 2: audio here to the podcast. Second discussion you had was
[2:30] Speaker 2: with another interesting man named Roe Kanna. He is a
[2:33] Speaker 2: congressman from your previous state of California. Tell us more
[2:37] Speaker 2: about him and how that conversation went.
[2:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the representative from I think it's District seventeen
[2:42] Speaker 1: in California the Congress, and it's basically Silicon Valley, so
[2:47] Speaker 1: in his district Apple and Google and Facebook. And he's
[2:51] Speaker 1: become a prominent figure on the national scene, often appearing
[2:55] Speaker 1: on programs and commenting. He's a Democrat, of course, and
[2:58] Speaker 1: holds some positions that I would have, you know, very
[3:00] Speaker 1: strong disagreement with. In other ways, I think he finds
[3:03] Speaker 1: common ground with Catholic social teaching. So we knocked that
[3:07] Speaker 1: around quite a bit. I liked him personally very much,
[3:09] Speaker 1: and we had a really lively conversation. And this way
[3:13] Speaker 1: I put it with him, I said, I want to
[3:14] Speaker 1: just talk to you, not as a liberal or conservative,
[3:17] Speaker 1: but as someone representing Catholic social teaching. So it was
[3:22] Speaker 1: I think a pretty compelling conversation.
[3:25] Speaker 2: Well, today I want to talk with you about one
[3:27] Speaker 2: of your mentors and heroes, Cardinal Francis George. Cardinal George
[3:31] Speaker 2: passed away back in twenty fifteen, at least it was
[3:34] Speaker 2: so almost eight years ago, but like many great figures,
[3:38] Speaker 2: his words continue to resonate years after his death. In fact,
[3:42] Speaker 2: every few months I see him quoted or you know,
[3:44] Speaker 2: an old homily or an old article. And there's one
[3:47] Speaker 2: that's currently making the rounds about this divide between conservative
[3:52] Speaker 2: Catholics and liberal Catholics. It stems back to some observations
[3:56] Speaker 2: he made in two thousand and four. At that time
[3:59] Speaker 2: he was just arch Bishop Francis George. In fact, he
[4:02] Speaker 2: gave this homily, which i'll quote from in a minute,
[4:04] Speaker 2: and the very next day it was announced that he
[4:06] Speaker 2: would be Cardinal Francis George. So this is right during
[4:09] Speaker 2: that transition. Before we get to his comments, though, tell
[4:12] Speaker 2: us for those who don't know Cardinal George, a little
[4:14] Speaker 2: bit about him. Who was he?
[4:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a great man and, as you say,
[4:18] Speaker 1: a great mentor. To me. He was an Oblate of
[4:20] Speaker 1: Mary Immaculate. He's from Chicago. He's a Chicago native. Became
[4:23] Speaker 1: a member of the Oblates of Mary Maculut, which is
[4:25] Speaker 1: a missionary order. But he was drawn very early into
[4:28] Speaker 1: academic work. He loved the life of the mind and books,
[4:31] Speaker 1: and he taught it. He got a doctorate at Tulane
[4:34] Speaker 1: University and then taught for many years in Omi institutions
[4:37] Speaker 1: and universities. Then he became a high ranking official in
[4:42] Speaker 1: Themi world, ending up in Rome. I think he was
[4:44] Speaker 1: called the Vicar of the Order, and in that capacity
[4:47] Speaker 1: he traveled the world. He also got a second doctorate
[4:50] Speaker 1: when he was in Rome. So very accomplished man, both
[4:53] Speaker 1: intellectually and pastorally. And then he was during the John
[4:56] Speaker 1: Paul two years he was drawn into the life of
[4:58] Speaker 1: a bishop. He became bishop of Yakima, Washington, was there
[5:03] Speaker 1: for a short time, and then he was for even
[5:05] Speaker 1: shorter time in Portland, Oregon. He was archbishop there for
[5:08] Speaker 1: about nine months. And then Joseph Burning died, the man
[5:12] Speaker 1: who ordained me to the priesthood many years ago, and
[5:15] Speaker 1: so Chicago was open, and he had emerged by that
[5:18] Speaker 1: time as a as a candidate. So he was made
[5:20] Speaker 1: Archbishop of Chicago in nineteen ninety seven, and then I,
[5:26] Speaker 1: you know, pretty quickly fell in with him because I
[5:28] Speaker 1: was a professor at the seminary and we shared a
[5:30] Speaker 1: lot of you know, similar intellectual interests and all that,
[5:33] Speaker 1: and I always enjoyed his company. And then he also
[5:36] Speaker 1: the one that drew me into this more evangelical work.
[5:39] Speaker 1: He felt that there was a need following John Paul
[5:42] Speaker 1: the Second to evangelize the culture. And so in many ways,
[5:46] Speaker 1: I've argued he's like the grandfather of War on Fire
[5:48] Speaker 1: because he's the one who inspired me to do this work.
[5:53] Speaker 1: And I've just gosh, Brandon in so many ways. I'll
[5:57] Speaker 1: go back to him. I'll say, we know, as Cardinal
[5:59] Speaker 1: George said, well, you know there'll be a debate. Yeah,
[6:02] Speaker 1: Cardinal George really resolved this, or Cardinal George saw this
[6:05] Speaker 1: more clearly. So he's someone that has just stayed very
[6:09] Speaker 1: much in my mind at heart over the years. And
[6:11] Speaker 1: then it's ironic he died in the spring of twenty fifteen,
[6:15] Speaker 1: I think April. I was named a bishop two months
[6:18] Speaker 1: later three months later, and then went to California, So
[6:22] Speaker 1: I he never knew me as a bishop. It happened
[6:26] Speaker 1: right after he died, but I've always felt that he's
[6:29] Speaker 1: sort of accompanied me during these years.
[6:33] Speaker 2: Well again, the evening before he was named a cardinal,
[6:36] Speaker 2: he gave this homily at Old Saint Patrick's Church in Chicago.
[6:39] Speaker 2: I'm sure you're familiar with it. And then he later
[6:42] Speaker 2: expanded that homily into an article for Commonweal. The article
[6:45] Speaker 2: was titled how Liberalism Fails the Church. But don't let
[6:49] Speaker 2: the title deceive you. He takes equal critical shots at
[6:52] Speaker 2: both liberal, conservative, liberal and conservative Catholicism. But let's start
[6:57] Speaker 2: with the liberal critique he makes. I'm going to quote
[6:59] Speaker 2: a little bit that length here about a paragraph. He says,
[7:02] Speaker 2: we are at a turning point in the life of
[7:04] Speaker 2: the church in this country. Liberal Catholicism is an exhausted project,
[7:10] Speaker 2: essentially a critique, even a necessary critique at one point
[7:14] Speaker 2: in our history. It is now parasitical on a substance
[7:18] Speaker 2: that no longer exists. End quote. So Cardinal George describes
[7:23] Speaker 2: liberal Catholicism as a necessary critique at one point in
[7:27] Speaker 2: our history. What's he referring to? What's it critiquing?
[7:30] Speaker 1: Right? See that statement is famous as typical Cardinal George
[7:33] Speaker 1: it needs a lot of unpacking. I think what he
[7:36] Speaker 1: means is this go back before the Council. He and
[7:40] Speaker 1: I shared a lot of the same heroes. Thomas Merton
[7:44] Speaker 1: and Dorothy Day and Hemri de Lubac and Joseph Ratzinger
[7:47] Speaker 1: and Orizon Baltasar and Carol boy Tiwa. All of those
[7:51] Speaker 1: figures I just mentioned would have been seen in nineteen
[7:53] Speaker 1: fifty let's say, as liberals. That's to say, they were
[7:57] Speaker 1: critical of certain elements within the Preconciliar Church, especially in
[8:02] Speaker 1: regard to liturgy, in regard to mission, in regard to ecclesiology.
[8:07] Speaker 1: Now think of the Second Vatican Council, where a lot
[8:10] Speaker 1: of these figures were players and their thought was influential
[8:14] Speaker 1: at shaping the council. Cardinal George was a man very
[8:18] Speaker 1: much of that tradition. It seems to me he would
[8:21] Speaker 1: have liked Preconciliar liberalism because he would have seen it
[8:25] Speaker 1: as a necessary criticism of certain elements within the Preconciliar
[8:29] Speaker 1: Church that needed criticizing. And then he would have recognized
[8:33] Speaker 1: Vatican Two as this wonderful moment when the Church in
[8:37] Speaker 1: its missionary alon, the Church in its proper self, understanding
[8:41] Speaker 1: its call to universal holiness, the role of the laity,
[8:45] Speaker 1: all of those great themes. He would have said, yes, yes,
[8:49] Speaker 1: Now fast forward to the church where I came of age.
[8:53] Speaker 1: He's a young priest by that time, but I'm a
[8:55] Speaker 1: kid coming of age. That a certain form of liberalism
[8:59] Speaker 1: predured for the Council that was now a counterproductive because
[9:04] Speaker 1: it's become parasitical upon a substance that no longer existed.
[9:08] Speaker 1: In other words, the excesses and problems of the previously
[9:12] Speaker 1: recharched had been solved in many ways by Vatican two.
[9:16] Speaker 1: But if the liberal critique continues as it did, it
[9:20] Speaker 1: was now counterproductive. And it was, as he put it there,
[9:23] Speaker 1: parasitical upon a substance that no longer exists, and it
[9:27] Speaker 1: was not able he felt to carry forward the great
[9:32] Speaker 1: project of Catholicism. It had become a sort of self referential,
[9:38] Speaker 1: self destructive, critical position. So I think that's what he
[9:44] Speaker 1: means when he says that.
[9:46] Speaker 2: He continues in this article from Commonweal, which I'll include
[9:50] Speaker 2: a link to this in the show notes so you
[9:51] Speaker 2: can read the whole thing, but he says it liberal
[9:55] Speaker 2: Catholicism has shown itself unable to pass on the faith
[9:59] Speaker 2: and integrity, and therefore, in fostering the joyful self surrender
[10:04] Speaker 2: called for in Christian marriage and consecrated life and ordained priesthood,
[10:09] Speaker 2: it no longer gives us life. Pretty harsh assessment. Do
[10:13] Speaker 2: you still find that true? Today's is liberal Catholicism fully exhausted,
[10:18] Speaker 2: unable to pass on life?
[10:20] Speaker 1: Yes, in the measure that remains a critical project. It
[10:25] Speaker 1: doesn't articulate well the substance of the faith. It doesn't
[10:29] Speaker 1: do what John Paul the second did so admirably. John
[10:32] Speaker 1: Paul was able to hold up the kind, the beating
[10:37] Speaker 1: heart of the faith, and to hold up the beauty
[10:39] Speaker 1: and truth and goodness of Catholicism, and to propose it
[10:43] Speaker 1: as a compelling option in the international conversation. The liberalism
[10:48] Speaker 1: that the cardinals complaining about here is again one that's
[10:50] Speaker 1: become fussily turned in in a hypercritical spirit, always ready
[10:55] Speaker 1: to see the limitations and negativity. Well, see that inspire
[11:00] Speaker 1: people to give their lives to something. You know that
[11:04] Speaker 1: what's that famous line Cardinal Dolan always quotes to the people.
[11:09] Speaker 1: You know, they're not going to give their lives for
[11:11] Speaker 1: a question mark. They give their lives for an exclamation point.
[11:14] Speaker 1: You know that if what you're holding up is basically
[11:17] Speaker 1: a critical negative position, people aren't going to give their
[11:23] Speaker 1: lives to that, Which is why I've argue for years
[11:25] Speaker 1: Catholic liberalism never gives rise to great vocations. Vocations don't
[11:30] Speaker 1: flourish under a liberal regime. John Paul the Second got that,
[11:36] Speaker 1: mind you, And I think I'm anticipating your next point.
[11:38] Speaker 1: Mind you, that's a preconciliar liberal who got it. Rothzinger,
[11:44] Speaker 1: that's a preconcilior liberal who got it. Baltasar, preconcilior liberal
[11:50] Speaker 1: who got it. De Lubac, preconcilior liberal. All those people
[11:54] Speaker 1: would have been seen by the conservative establishment of the
[11:57] Speaker 1: fifties as sort of radical figures. But they, to my mind,
[12:01] Speaker 1: I think the Cardinal George's mind too, legitimately criticized elements
[12:05] Speaker 1: that were problematic within preconciliary Catholicism and thereby liberated and
[12:12] Speaker 1: gave expression to what was rich and beautiful within it.
[12:15] Speaker 1: If all you do is continue in the negative tradition
[12:18] Speaker 1: without bringing forward the positive, you're going to get this
[12:22] Speaker 1: lifeless form that the cardinal's complaining about.
[12:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk more about that lifeless form, Because as
[12:30] Speaker 2: he continues, he not only has words against liberal Catholicism,
[12:34] Speaker 2: but some sharp words for forms of conservative Catholicism as well.
[12:38] Speaker 1: And it's very important people miss that in his analysis.
[12:42] Speaker 2: Go ahead, and again, I think because of the headline.
[12:44] Speaker 2: I don't know if the headline came from him or
[12:46] Speaker 2: from an editor, but the headline just mentions how liberalism
[12:50] Speaker 2: fails the church without mentioning this follow up part that
[12:53] Speaker 2: he says, so quote, let me let me read it
[12:56] Speaker 2: to Yeah, he says, quote. The answer, however, is not
[12:58] Speaker 2: to be found in a type of conservative Catholicism obsessed
[13:02] Speaker 2: with particular practices and so sectarian and its outlook that
[13:07] Speaker 2: it cannot serve as a sign of unity of all
[13:09] Speaker 2: peoples in Christ. It makes the same error as liberals
[13:13] Speaker 2: and an excessive preoccupation with the Church's visible government. Now,
[13:18] Speaker 2: I do want to point out that he's criticizing here
[13:21] Speaker 2: a type of conservative Catholicism, not whole cloth. But what
[13:24] Speaker 2: type is he referring to here?
[13:27] Speaker 1: Can I make reference Brandon to a hero that he
[13:29] Speaker 1: and I have in common, and this cardinal Luctige of Paris.
[13:33] Speaker 1: When I was a doctoral student many years ago in Paris,
[13:36] Speaker 1: he was the archbishop and Cardinal George deeply admired LUCYJ.
[13:40] Speaker 1: In fact invited him to munderline when I was a
[13:42] Speaker 1: professor there. Anyway, LUSTYJ wrote an article he was a priest,
[13:49] Speaker 1: he was a priest of Paris, wrote an article where
[13:51] Speaker 1: he said, a plague on the liberal house. So he
[13:55] Speaker 1: was sharing all of John Paul's and the cardinals' concerns
[13:58] Speaker 1: about liberalism. But in the French context he also said,
[14:02] Speaker 1: a plague on the conservative house that simply wants to
[14:04] Speaker 1: identify the church with the a regime, you know, the
[14:08] Speaker 1: pre revolutionary France, monarchical France, that culture from let's say
[14:14] Speaker 1: the eighteenth and early nineteenth century, the triumphalistic political culture
[14:19] Speaker 1: of that era. And he said, a plague on the left,
[14:23] Speaker 1: a plague on the right, and let's go with you
[14:27] Speaker 1: know this vibrant, beautiful, true, culturally engaged Catholicism. Well, this
[14:33] Speaker 1: was an obscure priest right in Paris, writes this letter.
[14:36] Speaker 1: It appeared someplace. Well, it came to the attention of
[14:39] Speaker 1: John Paul a second, who was newly elected pope at
[14:42] Speaker 1: that time, and he said, he's my man, and he
[14:45] Speaker 1: very quickly raised him to I think he was Bishop
[14:47] Speaker 1: of Ordeon for a short time, and then it came open.
[14:51] Speaker 1: He made him arch Bishop of Paris, and I think
[14:54] Speaker 1: that's very much the Cardinal George's trajectory is. Yes, he
[14:59] Speaker 1: didn't like liberalism for all the reasons we've been saying,
[15:01] Speaker 1: but he also again put Cardil George in the American context.
[15:06] Speaker 1: He didn't want a Catholic Conservatism that simply identified itself
[15:11] Speaker 1: with a particular cultural form, call it the the America
[15:15] Speaker 1: of the nineteen fifties or the liturgical practice of the
[15:19] Speaker 1: Preconcilior time. He thought that's what rendered Catholicism incapable of
[15:25] Speaker 1: engaging the wider culture, of being a really player on
[15:28] Speaker 1: the world stage. It became again a fussy, inward looking
[15:33] Speaker 1: nostalgia for a lost cultural form. And the point is
[15:38] Speaker 1: Catholicism is meant to transcend all the cultures and therefore
[15:42] Speaker 1: able to engage all the cultures. It doesn't get hyper
[15:46] Speaker 1: identified either with eighteenth century Oenciinte regime France or nineteen
[15:51] Speaker 1: fifties America. It has a vibrant transcendence, and he saw
[15:56] Speaker 1: it in Vatican Two. He saw it especially in John
[16:01] Speaker 1: Paul the Second again Preconcilior liberal man of the Council
[16:06] Speaker 1: par excellence. But Cardinal George saw in John Paul the
[16:09] Speaker 1: Second exactly this. I'm always allowed to say middle Path
[16:14] Speaker 1: because that sounds bland. I don't mean in a bland way.
[16:17] Speaker 1: But he saw this neither this nor that, not conventional liberalism,
[16:23] Speaker 1: not conventional culturally determined conservatism, but this vibrant and what's
[16:28] Speaker 1: his phrase, simply Catholicism. Now, George loose dj voytiwa Rotzinger
[16:36] Speaker 1: de Lubac. That's what they all saw. They all got that.
[16:41] Speaker 1: Now I'm going to bring myself briefly into this conversation.
[16:45] Speaker 1: Years and years ago in Chicago, we had this jamboree
[16:49] Speaker 1: out on Navy Peer, if people know in Chicago, this
[16:51] Speaker 1: beautiful Peer that goes out into Lake Michigan. And we
[16:54] Speaker 1: had this gathering of Catholics and the big event was
[16:57] Speaker 1: Cardinal George and Andrew Greeley. Greely of the time was
[17:01] Speaker 1: a very prominent probably the most famous Catholic in America.
[17:03] Speaker 1: You know, more liberal, the Cardinals seems more conservative. Well
[17:07] Speaker 1: they I was brought in as kind of a third wheel,
[17:11] Speaker 1: you know this thing, and I made my little points,
[17:13] Speaker 1: but it was a very interesting I remember that exchange
[17:16] Speaker 1: very well, because I think the two of them substantially
[17:20] Speaker 1: agreed on the very points we're making right now. And
[17:24] Speaker 1: it was at that meeting that for the first time
[17:26] Speaker 1: I said, I like preconcilior liberals. I tend not to
[17:31] Speaker 1: like postconcilior liberals. And it's making this same point, and
[17:37] Speaker 1: that set the tone for a lot of my own
[17:41] Speaker 1: work and my own thinking. So people have been following me,
[17:44] Speaker 1: let's say, especially in the in the Francis era, when
[17:46] Speaker 1: there's been so much polarized debate, And watch the moves
[17:50] Speaker 1: I've been making. Where did I learn them? I learned
[17:52] Speaker 1: them from LUCTYJ. I learned them from Cardinal George. I
[17:55] Speaker 1: learned them from Vatican Two. I learned them from Voiitiwa.
[17:58] Speaker 1: I'm trying to make the same moves. Right of a
[18:01] Speaker 1: plague on both your houses. I'm for Vatican Two. I'm
[18:05] Speaker 1: for simply Catholicism. I still think Brandon, it's the lively
[18:11] Speaker 1: issue that we're facing today.
[18:13] Speaker 2: Used a phrase that Cardinal George himself used in this
[18:16] Speaker 2: famous article, namely simply Catholicism. He says, quote, what's the answer.
[18:22] Speaker 2: The answer is simply Catholicism, and all its fullness and depth.
[18:26] Speaker 2: A faith able to distinguish itself from any culture, and
[18:30] Speaker 2: yet able to engage and transform them all right. A
[18:33] Speaker 2: faith joyful in all the gifts that Christ wants to
[18:36] Speaker 2: give us, and open to the whole world that he
[18:39] Speaker 2: died to save. The Catholic faith shapes a church with
[18:42] Speaker 2: a lot of room for differences and pastoral approach, for
[18:45] Speaker 2: discussion and debate, for initiatives as various as the peoples
[18:50] Speaker 2: whom God loves. But more profoundly, the faith shapes a
[18:54] Speaker 2: church which knows her Lord and knows her own identity.
[18:58] Speaker 2: A church able to distinguish between what fits into the
[19:01] Speaker 2: tradition that unites her to Christ and what is a
[19:04] Speaker 2: false start or a distorting thesis. A church united here
[19:08] Speaker 2: and now because she is always one with the Church
[19:10] Speaker 2: throughout the ages and with the saints in heaven. What
[19:14] Speaker 2: do you make of that stirring cry for simply Catholicism.
[19:17] Speaker 1: We could do several shows unpacking that. I'll just mention
[19:22] Speaker 1: that very first thing I think he says it's transcendent
[19:26] Speaker 1: to any culture and therefore able to engage every culture.
[19:31] Speaker 1: The danger with a conservatism that hyper identifies with a
[19:35] Speaker 1: particular cultural form is just that is, it becomes limited
[19:38] Speaker 1: to that form authentic simply, Catholicism in a way transcends
[19:44] Speaker 1: all the cultures, and therefore it can engage them all
[19:47] Speaker 1: up and down the centuries and now across the world. Again,
[19:50] Speaker 1: look at John Paul the second World Youth Day. World
[19:53] Speaker 1: Youth Day is not just a nice jamboree for kids.
[19:56] Speaker 1: It's embodying this very principle and said, the kids coming
[20:01] Speaker 1: from all across the world with their individual flags. Great,
[20:04] Speaker 1: your individual cultures, but the Church transcends all those cultures
[20:09] Speaker 1: and therefore is able to engage all of them. The
[20:12] Speaker 1: reason why, if you just stay at the at the
[20:14] Speaker 1: level of politics, you're never going to find peace because
[20:17] Speaker 1: of the flags while we start fighting with each other.
[20:20] Speaker 1: But the Church transcends every culture and therefore engages every culture.
[20:25] Speaker 1: That's that's the answer. And see, we've had this civil
[20:30] Speaker 1: war Brandon for the past sixty years after Vatican two,
[20:34] Speaker 1: and John Paul and company who articulated this vision found
[20:39] Speaker 1: found the way past the war, and sadly it's been
[20:44] Speaker 1: revived in recent years. The civil war has gotten more
[20:46] Speaker 1: intense because I think we've forgotten this principle that he
[20:52] Speaker 1: gave eloquent expression to.
[20:55] Speaker 2: I love How Cardinal George closes this article, he references
[20:59] Speaker 2: the very pope you just did, John Paul the Second,
[21:01] Speaker 2: who was the pope at the time that he gave
[21:03] Speaker 2: this homily and wrote the article. He says, quote the
[21:06] Speaker 2: current PBS series on Pope John Paul the Second. There
[21:09] Speaker 2: was a documentary called John Paul the Second, the Millennial Pope.
[21:12] Speaker 2: He says, that documentary raises the question, is this a
[21:16] Speaker 2: pope for our times or against our times? The only
[21:21] Speaker 2: adequate answer is both. That is simply Catholicism. He says,
[21:26] Speaker 2: how much a pope and a bishop and a priest
[21:29] Speaker 2: and every Catholic be both for our times and against
[21:33] Speaker 2: our times? And how is that simple Catholicism?
[21:36] Speaker 1: And may I say, because you know, as you say
[21:37] Speaker 1: all this stuff, Brandon, I'm getting nostalogic in a way,
[21:40] Speaker 1: because anyone who's been paying attention to me at all
[21:42] Speaker 1: for the past ten years, they'll they'll understand, Oh, that's
[21:45] Speaker 1: that's where he's getting it from. That's what he's up to.
[21:49] Speaker 1: This has been the governing principle of word on fire,
[21:54] Speaker 1: and which is why, which is precisely why we get
[21:57] Speaker 1: attacked from both the left and the right. Is the
[22:00] Speaker 1: church for the culture, yes, which is why we look
[22:03] Speaker 1: for semina verbi every place. That's that's why I look
[22:07] Speaker 1: to movies, into TV, into the popular culture and reaching
[22:11] Speaker 1: out to cultural avatars, because yes, there are semina verbi everywhere.
[22:16] Speaker 1: There's a there's a self regarding stupid conservatism that would say,
[22:22] Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, no, no, no no, we just kind of
[22:23] Speaker 1: we have to withdraw into our fortress and everything in
[22:26] Speaker 1: the culture is bad. Well, no, that's a that's a
[22:29] Speaker 1: stupid position. At the same time, am I against the culture, Yes,
[22:33] Speaker 1: in many ways. I've written many articles and done videos
[22:37] Speaker 1: and written books about all the demonic and fallen aspects
[22:41] Speaker 1: of the culture, and the Church has to rail against
[22:44] Speaker 1: them from age to age. You know, look at today
[22:46] Speaker 1: with them abortion, euthanasia. John Paul named it correctly, the
[22:50] Speaker 1: culture of death, this kooky self invention culture that I've
[22:55] Speaker 1: been railing against. Cardinal George died before that really reached it.
[22:58] Speaker 1: It's it's hyph woke culture, and there's so many elements
[23:03] Speaker 1: of the culture that are deeply problematic, and so of
[23:05] Speaker 1: course we attack him. And that's why the left doesn't
[23:07] Speaker 1: like me. Oh he's a culture warrior. Well sure, I'm
[23:10] Speaker 1: a culture warrior and I'm a culture celebrator at the
[23:13] Speaker 1: same time, because I've got a mind and hard big
[23:18] Speaker 1: enough to take in both these elements. The trouble with
[23:20] Speaker 1: these warring factions in their self regarding stupidity is that
[23:25] Speaker 1: they can't make that move. Cardinal George understood this, and
[23:30] Speaker 1: all the figures I mentioned understood this, and that's the
[23:33] Speaker 1: equilibrium that we're losing today, I fear, and why we
[23:37] Speaker 1: need someone like him to remind us.
[23:40] Speaker 2: Let's close with a quest for that very reminder. Cardinal
[23:44] Speaker 2: George dies eight years ago. If he were still alive
[23:47] Speaker 2: today and he was witnessing, let's just stay within the church,
[23:51] Speaker 2: the skirmishes between the Catholics on the right Catholics on
[23:54] Speaker 2: the left, what do you think he would say?
[23:56] Speaker 1: He'd say, a plague on both your houses and let's
[23:58] Speaker 1: get back to simply Cathoism. And he'd say, you're both
[24:01] Speaker 1: playing a self destructive game. You're both self regarding. You're
[24:05] Speaker 1: both concerned more about your tribal identity than the church.
[24:09] Speaker 1: The church is a big as he said, you know,
[24:11] Speaker 1: and that quote you gave. It's a big institution, able
[24:14] Speaker 1: to take in a lot of different perspectives. It's a
[24:16] Speaker 1: both and tradition, not a stupid either or tradition. I
[24:21] Speaker 1: think that's what he would say, and that a plague
[24:24] Speaker 1: on both your houses and stop this silly tribal warfare
[24:28] Speaker 1: and recover the evangelical alon of an intelligently and beautifully
[24:34] Speaker 1: presented Catholicism. If I make bold to speak in his name, you.
[24:39] Speaker 2: Know well it's time now for our listener question. If
[24:51] Speaker 2: you have a question for Bishop Baron, you can send
[24:53] Speaker 2: it in to us at the website Askbishop Baron dot com.
[24:56] Speaker 2: Today we have a question from a young girl in Cincinnati.
[24:59] Speaker 2: Her name is Amelia. She got a really thought provoking
[25:02] Speaker 2: question about Jesus. Here's Amelia's question.
[25:09] Speaker 3: Hello, my name is Amelia. I am sick to you, dude.
[25:13] Speaker 3: I am from Ccinnati, Ohio. My question is did Jesus
[25:17] Speaker 3: ever get sick? Thank you and God bless.
[25:21] Speaker 1: That's a good question. Did Jesus ever get sick? You know,
[25:26] Speaker 1: I don't know if I think I like that gustain
[25:29] Speaker 1: a quintness if they ever addressed that question. See this
[25:34] Speaker 1: proves the point I've often made that a child in
[25:37] Speaker 1: her innocence there is going to ask the most penetrating
[25:41] Speaker 1: and confounding questions. You'd have to get at it, Brandon,
[25:45] Speaker 1: how you know he's like us in all things? But
[25:48] Speaker 1: sin leaves to say, well, sure, then you know he
[25:51] Speaker 1: got sick. It's not a sin to be sick. Right.
[25:54] Speaker 1: On the other hand, is sickness to some degree a
[25:57] Speaker 1: function of the fallenness of the world, and therefore of sin.
[26:01] Speaker 1: So I suppose that if I were a clients, that
[26:03] Speaker 1: would be my you know, said Contra, and my respondio
[26:06] Speaker 1: and everything. You know, don't do sickness at the physical level.
[26:11] Speaker 1: But did he feel sorrow? Certainly, you know. And I
[26:15] Speaker 1: suppose you'd say, Adam before the fall wouldn't have experienced sorrow.
[26:19] Speaker 1: But Jesus clearly experiences that. He weeps, and he enters
[26:23] Speaker 1: into the anguish of people. And you could say that's
[26:26] Speaker 1: a result of sin, you know. So in that sense,
[26:30] Speaker 1: I'd be persuaded to say, yeah, he got physically sick,
[26:33] Speaker 1: But what's good. Honestly, I don't have a good answer.
[26:37] Speaker 1: I don't remember any of the great theologians addressing that
[26:40] Speaker 1: particular concern. So I got to think about that some more.
[26:43] Speaker 2: Well, listen, as we wind up here, I would like
[26:45] Speaker 2: to encourage you to join us for the upcoming twenty
[26:48] Speaker 2: twenty four Wonder Conference. We had our first ever Wonder
[26:52] Speaker 2: Conference a year ago. It focuses on topics relating to
[26:55] Speaker 2: faith in science. As you know, one of today's most
[26:58] Speaker 2: important evangelical tasks is to debunk the common myth that
[27:03] Speaker 2: faith and science are incompatible. Well, the Word on Fire
[27:06] Speaker 2: Institute's goal is to bring together renowned experts in physics, philosophy, theology,
[27:13] Speaker 2: and history to address this perceived gap and to show
[27:17] Speaker 2: how faith and science, properly understood are mutually illuminating, especially
[27:22] Speaker 2: on this year's topic of nature and the human body.
[27:26] Speaker 2: So the actual theme is recovering the natural, science and
[27:30] Speaker 2: the human Body. The conference is going to take place
[27:32] Speaker 2: August second through fourth, twenty twenty four, at the Rochester
[27:36] Speaker 2: Civic Center, so we're coming to Bishop Baron's backyard. Speakers
[27:40] Speaker 2: will include Bishop Baron, Heather Heying, John Verveiki, Jonathan Pagio,
[27:45] Speaker 2: Father Robert Spitzer, Abigail Favali, Ryan Anderson, and many more.
[27:50] Speaker 2: You can find out more details and sign up for
[27:52] Speaker 2: the conference by going to the website wordonfire dot org
[27:55] Speaker 2: slash Wonder. The first Wonder conference sold out very quickly,
[28:00] Speaker 2: so I do encourage you if you want to go
[28:02] Speaker 2: register asap again the website's word on fire dot org
[28:06] Speaker 2: slash Wonder Well, thanks so much for watching and listening.
[28:09] Speaker 2: We'll see you next time on the Word on Fire
[28:12] Speaker 2: Show

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