# The Bully Pulpit with Joe Dallas

An episode of [Bible Answer Man Podcast with Hank Hanegraaff](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/569236334), 16 Jul 2026, 28 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72950273/9e7d5d53_284d_4866_a7ba_5669fca91b07.mp3

On today’s Bible Answer Man broadcast (07/16/26), Hank interviews Joe Dallas on his article in the Christian Research Journal, “The Bully Pulpit: When Gay Teens Commit Suicide, Are Preachers to Blame?”

## Transcript

[0:07] Speaker 1: From Charlotte, North Carolina. You are listening to the Bible
[0:10] Speaker 1: answer Man broadcast with Hank Hanagraph, president of the Christian
[0:14] Speaker 1: Research Institute. The reason the Bible answer Man is on
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[0:49] Speaker 1: was pre recorded, and now here's your host, Hank Anagraph.
[0:53] Speaker 2: I want to talk today about the subject of homosexuality. Unfortunately,
[1:00] Speaker 2: in the Christian Church there are people with huge platforms
[1:08] Speaker 2: speaking out against homosexuality in a way that is unbefitting
[1:16] Speaker 2: to Christians. Benny hen is just such an example.
[1:23] Speaker 3: The Lord also tells me to tell you in the
[1:25] Speaker 3: mid nineties about nine four ninety five, no other than
[1:29] Speaker 3: that God will destroy the homosexual community of America. But
[1:41] Speaker 3: he will not destroy it with what many minds have
[1:46] Speaker 3: thought him to be. He will destroy it with fire.
[1:52] Speaker 3: And many will turn and be saved, and many will
[1:56] Speaker 3: rebel and be destroyed.
[1:58] Speaker 2: And this is precisely what I'm talking about. Let me
[2:02] Speaker 2: point out what was particularly distasteful about that clip. The
[2:08] Speaker 2: words of Benny Hin were disgusting, disturbing, but even more
[2:17] Speaker 2: disturbing was the applause from so called Christians to what
[2:24] Speaker 2: he was saying. He was predicting the demise of homosexuals
[2:32] Speaker 2: and people who take the sacred name of Christ upon
[2:36] Speaker 2: their lips applauded. There's a huge story here, and there's
[2:44] Speaker 2: no one better to tackle that story than Joe Dallas.
[2:51] Speaker 2: He's written an article for the Christian Research Journal. It's
[2:53] Speaker 2: called the Bully Pulpit. When gayteenes commit suicide, our preachers
[2:59] Speaker 2: to blame? Well, can we say they're completely blameless? When
[3:05] Speaker 2: you hear a clip like that from a man like
[3:10] Speaker 2: Benny Hen. On the other hand, the question is is
[3:14] Speaker 2: it really fair to target Christians to say that the
[3:19] Speaker 2: rash of teen suicides is a direct result of Christians
[3:27] Speaker 2: communicating an anti homosexual message. There are people who have
[3:36] Speaker 2: big profiles. Kathy Griffin is a good example on Larry
[3:41] Speaker 2: King saying this very thing. Listen to this, do you
[3:44] Speaker 2: think Kathy that society heterosexual society looks the other way.
[3:49] Speaker 4: Look, let's cut the crap. I think that the way
[3:52] Speaker 4: that we had trickled down economics in the eighties, this
[3:54] Speaker 4: is trickled down homophobia. And I really want people to
[3:57] Speaker 4: connect the dots. And that's why I believe there's a
[4:00] Speaker 4: connection between prop eight Don't Ask, Don't Tell and now
[4:04] Speaker 4: the string of teen suicides. It's almost sanctioned to bully
[4:07] Speaker 4: gay people and treat them as second class citizens. And
[4:11] Speaker 4: I get very nervous when the parents of these so
[4:13] Speaker 4: called bullies defend them saying, oh, kids will be kids.
[4:17] Speaker 4: When you find out that the teen suicide rate is
[4:19] Speaker 4: four times higher for a gay person, think about how
[4:23] Speaker 4: tragic suicide is, period, But why would you want to
[4:26] Speaker 4: make it four times higher? And for what these kids
[4:29] Speaker 4: are just being themselves. Well, I think a lot of
[4:31] Speaker 4: the so called religious leaders play into it, and the
[4:34] Speaker 4: politicians certainly aren't doing enough. There's a lot of very
[4:37] Speaker 4: right wing conservative people but absolutely sanction this behavior, and
[4:41] Speaker 4: there's a lot you can do to finally put a
[4:42] Speaker 4: stop to it.
[4:44] Speaker 2: I've asked Joe to make sense of all of this.
[4:47] Speaker 2: Joe Dallas wrote the article again the bully pulpit for
[4:50] Speaker 2: the Christian Research journe But I also want Joe Dallas
[4:53] Speaker 2: to make sense of this for us on the Bible
[4:57] Speaker 2: answer Man broadcast. This is a huge issue. You you have
[5:01] Speaker 2: stories of homosexuals who have been bullied. The testimonies are growing.
[5:06] Speaker 2: There's a story here, and we must make sure that
[5:12] Speaker 2: in this process we end up reaching rather than repelling. Again,
[5:16] Speaker 2: no one better to tackle this subject than Joe Dallas.
[5:21] Speaker 2: Is always good to have you on the broadcast.
[5:23] Speaker 5: Thank you, and as always good being with you, Hank.
[5:26] Speaker 2: Joe, how do we make sense of this? On the
[5:28] Speaker 2: one hand, you have a major quote unquote evangelical voice
[5:35] Speaker 2: who says that God is going to kill all homosexuals
[5:39] Speaker 2: and the response from the pews is applause. On the
[5:43] Speaker 2: other hand, you have someone like Kathy Griffin who is
[5:46] Speaker 2: in a sense saying, connect the dots. If you do,
[5:49] Speaker 2: you're going to find out this points directly at the
[5:52] Speaker 2: Christian world.
[5:54] Speaker 5: I think extremism breeds extremism, Hank. Yes, there are extreme
[6:02] Speaker 5: voices in the body of Christ, and I'm with you.
[6:05] Speaker 5: I'm much more disturbed by the Christians who applauded when
[6:10] Speaker 5: they heard that homosexuals were going to die than I
[6:14] Speaker 5: was by Benny Hinn's statement, which was ludicrous and irresponsible,
[6:18] Speaker 5: But it chills me every time I hear a tape
[6:21] Speaker 5: of that and listen to people who seem to be
[6:24] Speaker 5: celebrating the idea that homosexuals will die. That is an unchristlike,
[6:30] Speaker 5: really abhorrent position to take. However, it's also I think
[6:37] Speaker 5: politically expedient for many gay activists to find any way
[6:43] Speaker 5: possible to either silence or at least discredit the church
[6:48] Speaker 5: at large. And I think that when I listen to
[6:52] Speaker 5: Kathy Griffin's comments that you played earlier, and many others, really,
[6:57] Speaker 5: I think that we're entering into a time when the
[7:02] Speaker 5: traditional viewpoint on homosexuality that is based on a serious
[7:07] Speaker 5: reading of scripture, that viewpoint is going to be indicted
[7:11] Speaker 5: as being dangerous if those who hold that viewpoint can't
[7:17] Speaker 5: be persuaded to compromise it. So I think for a
[7:21] Speaker 5: couple of decades now we've seen attempts to persuade traditional
[7:26] Speaker 5: believers to compromise their position. By and large, that's not happening.
[7:31] Speaker 5: So the next step, then is to silence the people
[7:34] Speaker 5: who hold that position by promoting the idea that that
[7:38] Speaker 5: position is dangerous, because, after all, Hank, who on earth
[7:42] Speaker 5: wants to see teenagers of any kind committing suicide? It's
[7:46] Speaker 5: an unspeakable thing. And so if gay activists can persuade
[7:53] Speaker 5: the culture that the reason young homosexuals kill themselves is
[7:58] Speaker 5: because the church makes them feel be ad about themselves,
[8:02] Speaker 5: then I think the culture by and large will consent
[8:06] Speaker 5: to the silencing of the church, whether it's through lawsuits
[8:10] Speaker 5: or hate crime legislation, or even criminal measures in the
[8:14] Speaker 5: interest of saving life. And so I think what we're
[8:18] Speaker 5: basically seeing is an attempt to silence an unpopular viewpoint
[8:25] Speaker 5: that is in fact a biblically based viewpoint.
[8:28] Speaker 2: Let's talk practicality here for just a few moments. You
[8:31] Speaker 2: quote Eminem in this article, and I actually had considered
[8:35] Speaker 2: reading your quote on the air as an introduction to
[8:39] Speaker 2: this broadcast, and then in conversations with some of my staff,
[8:44] Speaker 2: we began to realize, Wow, if I did that, I
[8:47] Speaker 2: might put the Christian Research Institute into a very precarious position.
[8:54] Speaker 2: Eminem can say it, but I can't say it. And
[8:57] Speaker 2: I started thinking, you know what, there's a lot of
[8:59] Speaker 2: credence to that concern. We really have to watch exactly
[9:04] Speaker 2: what language is used on a broadcast, because if we're
[9:09] Speaker 2: not prudent, wise a serpent gentle as doves, we could
[9:14] Speaker 2: end up being a huge target unnecessarily.
[9:19] Speaker 5: I'm glad you're thinking that way, Hank. I think we
[9:21] Speaker 5: all need to take that seriously. Jesus said, by your words,
[9:25] Speaker 5: you're going to be justified. By your words, you're going
[9:29] Speaker 5: to be condemned. And I don't know of any issue
[9:32] Speaker 5: where words become more like minefields than this particular issue.
[9:37] Speaker 5: But you know, you bring up eminem. This is a
[9:39] Speaker 5: guy I'm not familiar with. I looked up his lyrics
[9:42] Speaker 5: and I couldn't believe what I was reading. And I'll
[9:45] Speaker 5: tell you why I couldn't believe it. This guy is popular, Okay.
[9:50] Speaker 5: I mean, this is a Grammy Award winning music artist
[9:56] Speaker 5: who puts out the most repulsive, violent, obscene lyrics, spewing
[10:03] Speaker 5: out a hatred of homosexual people and yet openly gay.
[10:09] Speaker 5: Elton John does duets with him and his CDs cell
[10:14] Speaker 5: and the Mega millions, and he gets by with that
[10:18] Speaker 5: with impunity. Now what we have to ask ourselves is, hey,
[10:23] Speaker 5: who is influencing teens to commit violence? If anybody is
[10:27] Speaker 5: influencing them. Is it the preacher down the street who
[10:31] Speaker 5: says that marriage is for a man or a woman,
[10:34] Speaker 5: or is it the popular rap artist who sings about
[10:38] Speaker 5: how much he would like to do violence to homosexual people.
[10:43] Speaker 5: To me, this is a no brainer.
[10:45] Speaker 2: We're going to be talking about that on the other
[10:46] Speaker 2: side of the break. That's precisely the question I when
[10:49] Speaker 2: I asked Joe Dallas, what's happening with respect to what
[10:53] Speaker 2: is being pumped incessantly into the minds of our teens.
[10:57] Speaker 2: We'll be right back with that question. Please don't tell that.
[11:00] Speaker 1: Dial Pastor Martin Nimoler spent the last seven years of
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[11:12] Speaker 1: and I did not speak out because I was not
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[11:18] Speaker 1: I did not speak out because I was not a
[11:21] Speaker 1: trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I
[11:24] Speaker 1: did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
[11:27] Speaker 1: Then they came for me, and there was no one
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[15:07] Speaker 1: Now back to the Bible answer Man broadcast and your
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[15:12] Speaker 2: Thank I much, Randy, And I'm talking to Joe Dallas.
[15:14] Speaker 2: He is my go to guy whenever we talk about
[15:17] Speaker 2: this particular subject. Of course, he is literate in many
[15:21] Speaker 2: other areas as well, but on this area we need
[15:26] Speaker 2: a voice of reason that we can learn from. And Joe,
[15:31] Speaker 2: one of the things that I appreciate about your life
[15:34] Speaker 2: and ministry is not just your message, but the manner
[15:40] Speaker 2: in which you model the communication of the message. And
[15:46] Speaker 2: that's one of the things I want you to address.
[15:49] Speaker 2: How significant our rhetoric is, how important it is to
[15:57] Speaker 2: reach as opposed to read, how significant it is for
[16:03] Speaker 2: christian not to isolate a group as though these people
[16:09] Speaker 2: ought to be destroyed, as opposed to seeing all people
[16:16] Speaker 2: as being those that need the redeeming power of Christ.
[16:22] Speaker 5: Yes, if I can make this very personal for a minute, Hank.
[16:26] Speaker 5: As you know, and we've talked about this before on
[16:29] Speaker 5: your show, I was an active member of the gay
[16:33] Speaker 5: community from nineteen seventy eight to nineteen eighty four, and
[16:38] Speaker 5: I went into that community as a backslit in christian
[16:43] Speaker 5: I joined the Progate Church and promoted for many years
[16:48] Speaker 5: the idea that homosexuality and Christianity were compatible. Looking at
[16:54] Speaker 5: it now, I can see I was in rebellion. I
[16:57] Speaker 5: was also very deceived. But I will tell you this,
[17:01] Speaker 5: at that time, there were so many Christians speaking about
[17:05] Speaker 5: this issue with an almost obsessively harsh tone. You know,
[17:12] Speaker 5: when they talked about mini sins, they'd get somewhat excited
[17:15] Speaker 5: when they talked about this one big gobilistic and I
[17:19] Speaker 5: would hear sometimes the most outrageous things said by Christian leaders,
[17:25] Speaker 5: things like all homosexuals are child molesters, or all homosexuals
[17:32] Speaker 5: are wildly promiscuous and dangerous people. And here's the bottom line, Hank.
[17:38] Speaker 5: Every time I heard that, that made it so much
[17:41] Speaker 5: easier for me to tell myself I was right, because
[17:45] Speaker 5: the people who believed homosexuality was wrong so often spoke
[17:50] Speaker 5: in such unreasonable ways that it made it so easy
[17:54] Speaker 5: for me to ignore their position on homosexuality and to
[17:58] Speaker 5: believe that I was in the right place. So believe me,
[18:01] Speaker 5: when people go off on tangents and homosexuals, I'm not
[18:06] Speaker 5: talking about calling homosexuality a sin. I'm talking about the
[18:10] Speaker 5: kind of statement you played earlier by Benny Hint, and
[18:13] Speaker 5: there are many other statements like that from many other people.
[18:17] Speaker 5: Every time a Christian makes a remark like that, it
[18:21] Speaker 5: confirms in the homosexual's mind the rightness of what he's doing.
[18:27] Speaker 2: Let's talk for a moment about the power of social
[18:31] Speaker 2: media as well as eminem, and he is not alone.
[18:35] Speaker 2: There are all kinds of lyrical attacks on homosexuals that
[18:40] Speaker 2: have been features of rap and hip hop music for decades.
[18:45] Speaker 2: So the question that you answer in the Christian Research Journal.
[18:49] Speaker 2: A question I'd like to have you answer on the
[18:51] Speaker 2: broadcast as well is who is more likely to be
[18:55] Speaker 2: influencing disturbed, violent prone teens The conservative clergyman down the
[19:03] Speaker 2: block whose church most adolescents avoid, or the man at
[19:09] Speaker 2: the microphone many teens pay to listen to.
[19:16] Speaker 5: Well, there you have it. I think the answer is
[19:18] Speaker 5: self evident because, as I tried to show in this article,
[19:21] Speaker 5: hank A, statistics show that today's teenagers are far less
[19:28] Speaker 5: likely to be influenced by the church than they are
[19:32] Speaker 5: by popular music or by their peers. So the only
[19:37] Speaker 5: way I could see blaming the church for stirring up
[19:42] Speaker 5: hatred against homosexuals would be if the church had tremendous
[19:49] Speaker 5: clout with teenagers today. You know, if the majority or
[19:53] Speaker 5: even half of today's teens were listening very carefully to
[19:57] Speaker 5: what Bible teachers on the radio were saying and what
[20:00] Speaker 5: their local preacher is saying, and if the local preacher
[20:05] Speaker 5: or Bible teacher was in fact saying that people should
[20:10] Speaker 5: go out and commit violent acts against homosexuals, then I
[20:13] Speaker 5: would say, absolutely the church is responsible for these suicides.
[20:18] Speaker 5: But neither one of those scenarios is happening. Number one,
[20:22] Speaker 5: despite the fact that there are extreme things that have
[20:25] Speaker 5: been said from the pulpit that should not be said
[20:28] Speaker 5: against homosexuals, the fact is, the vast majority, and I
[20:32] Speaker 5: mean the vast majority of preachers and teachers who teach
[20:38] Speaker 5: the traditional view on sexuality are certainly not saying we
[20:41] Speaker 5: should go out and beat up homosexual people. To say
[20:46] Speaker 5: something is a sin is not, by any stretch, the
[20:50] Speaker 5: same as saying that you should go out and mistreat
[20:54] Speaker 5: the person who commits that sin. And I think common
[20:57] Speaker 5: sense tells us that. So first that message, which has
[21:00] Speaker 5: not by a large gone out. Secondly, kids unfortunately are
[21:06] Speaker 5: not by and large listening as much to the church
[21:10] Speaker 5: as they are to other voices. So when you break
[21:13] Speaker 5: down these accusations that preachers are responsible for influencing teenagers
[21:19] Speaker 5: to bully their gay schoolmates and as a result, their
[21:23] Speaker 5: gay schoolmates are committing suicide, it's illogical, it's unsubstantiated, it
[21:29] Speaker 5: is simply and completely not true.
[21:32] Speaker 2: Sorry to Joe Dallas. The article in the Christian Research
[21:36] Speaker 2: Journal titled the Bully Pulpit. When gay teens commit suicide,
[21:41] Speaker 2: our preachers to blame. Joe want to get to the
[21:43] Speaker 2: other side of this issue for a moment. Churches are
[21:47] Speaker 2: changing rapidly. It is in vogue today in mainline evangelical churches,
[21:56] Speaker 2: just like in mainline liberal church is to now say
[22:02] Speaker 2: that the Bible's view on homosexuality is outdated. We have
[22:08] Speaker 2: evolved to a point of recognizing that the message should
[22:14] Speaker 2: be liberated from the biblical teaching such that we recognize
[22:20] Speaker 2: we've moved on, Truth has moved on, and we should
[22:23] Speaker 2: take a new position. Talk about the shift within the
[22:27] Speaker 2: church with respect to a message on homosexuality and how
[22:31] Speaker 2: it can actually hurt the very people we're trying to reach.
[22:35] Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a strange shift, isn't it, Because the people
[22:39] Speaker 5: who are promoting it, by and large, are not promoting
[22:42] Speaker 5: such a shift in other areas. Now. I know there
[22:46] Speaker 5: are emergent teachers and more liberal teachers who promote a
[22:51] Speaker 5: general shift away from the whole concept of Biblical authority
[22:55] Speaker 5: and so forth. But among a number of allegedly concerned leaders,
[23:01] Speaker 5: why the shift is only in this area where they're
[23:04] Speaker 5: basically saying that either the Bible does not really condemn
[23:10] Speaker 5: homosexual behavior, or it's at least ambiguous enough on the
[23:15] Speaker 5: subject that we shouldn't make an issue of it, and
[23:19] Speaker 5: you'll hear more and more evangelical leaders saying that the
[23:24] Speaker 5: Bible is really silent on homosexuality, so we should be
[23:28] Speaker 5: as well, or that it's such a vague and secondary
[23:32] Speaker 5: issue that we can just agree to disagree. But really
[23:35] Speaker 5: within the church body, hey, if you're engaging in sexual
[23:40] Speaker 5: relationships with the same sex or with the opposite sex,
[23:44] Speaker 5: it's all the same. God loves you. Let's all just
[23:46] Speaker 5: be together. And this is a growing trend that's being
[23:51] Speaker 5: supported by names that are very familiar to all of us.
[23:55] Speaker 5: And as I said, Hank, we're going to see more.
[23:57] Speaker 2: Of this, Joe. One of the issues whose that I'm
[24:01] Speaker 2: concerned with is the trend within our youth that homosexuality
[24:08] Speaker 2: is okay. It's just an alternate, viable lifestyle. It's okay.
[24:15] Speaker 2: And the moment you hear someone speak out against it
[24:21] Speaker 2: as though the Bible condemns it in a very specific,
[24:25] Speaker 2: nonambiguous way, that person is dated.
[24:30] Speaker 5: What do you think, Well, that too is the trend.
[24:33] Speaker 5: Of course, we know that this upcoming generation are today's
[24:38] Speaker 5: adolescents and young adults, is largely a post Christian generation
[24:44] Speaker 5: in that they largely have abandoned the idea of the
[24:48] Speaker 5: authority of scripture and the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as
[24:53] Speaker 5: being the only way to the Father. And so when
[24:57] Speaker 5: you drop those basic prem of a Christian worldview, you're
[25:02] Speaker 5: going to probably take a very broad view of just
[25:04] Speaker 5: about everything. And that is a generation largely hugely influenced
[25:10] Speaker 5: by television, which is largely hugely pro gay in its position,
[25:16] Speaker 5: and so to a generation raised with essentially a pro
[25:21] Speaker 5: gay viewpoint in the culture, the idea of speaking against
[25:25] Speaker 5: homosexuality seems to them to be akin to the racism
[25:32] Speaker 5: of the early sixties and nineteen fifties that predated the
[25:36] Speaker 5: Civil rights movement. So we've certainly got our work cut
[25:40] Speaker 5: out in striving to articulate in a calm and reasonable
[25:44] Speaker 5: way the Biblical position on human sexuality. Because the teens
[25:49] Speaker 5: of today, I think, would listen to what you and
[25:52] Speaker 5: I have said so far hang and just be rolling
[25:55] Speaker 5: their eyes thinking where did these Neanderthals come from? It
[26:00] Speaker 5: really is a very different world, and it's changed very quickly.
[26:04] Speaker 2: Thanks to Joe, thanks for tuning in. We'll see next
[26:07] Speaker 2: time with more.
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