# 670: Brad and Ian Frost on Their New Design Tokens Course

An episode of [ShopTalk](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/493890455), 23 Jun 2025, 1 h 08 min.

Audio: https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/167887a0-ac00-4cf9-bc69-b5ca845997db/episodes/5b9f4ad3-5938-4d5b-9dce-3bc4bd229498/audio/25c49bd8-9d47-46ff-bc30-16b04070284b/default_tc.mp3?nocache

Show Description Brad and Ian stop by to chat about their new course, The Complete Guide to Design Tokens, what happens if you don't use design tokens on projects, what the ideal outcome is for building and designing with design tokens, how many colors is enough, what about refactoring, and does Figma or code win the argument? (Brad and Ian did give us a 20% discount code for the course: SHOPTALKSHOWISAWESOME) Listen on Website Watch on YouTube Guests Brad Frost Guest's Main URL • Guest's Social Design system consultant, web designer, speaker, writer, musician, and artist located in beautiful Pittsburgh, PA. Ian Frost Guest's Main URL • Guest's Social Front-end architect, technical lead, and consultant who loves to help level up developers. Links • Design Tokens Course with Brad Frost and Ian Frost • Dotdash Meredith - America's Largest Digital & Print Publisher • Nord Design System • React Aria • Style Dictionary | Style Dictionary

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