# The trap of win-lose thinking (and how to escape it) | John Mackey

An episode of [TED Business](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/470622782), 16 Mar 2026, 13 min.

Audio: https://sphinx.acast.com/p/open/s/675727607205a5bc68e57057/e/69989764240b4a2d75d2dcbd/media.mp3

What do you get when you combine a major flood and near-bankruptcy? For Whole Foods cofounder John Mackey, the answer reshaped his business into a household name. He takes us back to the night his first store was destroyed, showing how shifting from a win-lose mindset to a "win-win-win" worldview helped him achieve success — and why it can work for you, too. After, Modupe teases what she would add to improve John's "win-win-win" perspective. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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