# This is Fine: Shattered Friendships in the Time of Trump

An episode of [TheThinkingAtheist](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/412308695), 11 Feb 2025, 1 h 23 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/mgln.ai/e/711/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/64256414/podcast787_thisisfine.mp3

Relationships are splintering in the shadow of current events. But "can we disagree and be friends?" That question and plenty of your calls. VIDEO of this podcast Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/thethinkingatheist--3270347/support.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: The Thinking Atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
[0:09] Speaker 1: an idea.
[0:10] Speaker 2: The population of atheists in this country is going through the.
[0:13] Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I
[0:19] Speaker 1: tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not
[0:22] Speaker 1: because I put my hand on a book and made
[0:24] Speaker 1: a wish and working together for a more rational world.
[0:29] Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness, Truth, fusion,
[0:32] Speaker 2: wisdom will come to you that way.
[0:35] Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
[0:43] Speaker 1: Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
[0:50] Speaker 2: Before I go to the phones, I mentioned this on
[0:54] Speaker 2: a previous broadcast on the Line. I was asked at
[0:57] Speaker 2: the last second to fill in as co host with
[0:59] Speaker 2: fort Valci, and after what was like a forty minute
[1:04] Speaker 2: series of rants between him and me, we started taking calls,
[1:10] Speaker 2: and you know, the calls almost broke me. You know,
[1:15] Speaker 2: I'm saying apologist calling in to speak about the most bizarre, disjointed,
[1:20] Speaker 2: disconnected stuff, most of them having a hard time even
[1:23] Speaker 2: starting the point, like I need this series of vowelsand
[1:27] Speaker 2: consonants to come together to take me to the end
[1:30] Speaker 2: of a sentence. You wouldn't think it would be that difficult,
[1:33] Speaker 2: and yet apparently it is. At the end of that
[1:36] Speaker 2: three and a half hours, I almost went out and
[1:39] Speaker 2: threw myself into the road. End it all right? And
[1:43] Speaker 2: then I come back here and oh, oxygen complete sentences.
[1:47] Speaker 2: It's lovely. But I was talking about I was an
[1:51] Speaker 2: argument between me and someone that I know and have
[1:55] Speaker 2: known casually and the tennis community in my city for
[1:59] Speaker 2: ten years at least, and it's always been pleasant. You know, hey,
[2:05] Speaker 2: it's great to see it. We played against each other,
[2:07] Speaker 2: it's always laughter and all that stuff, nothing but goodwill.
[2:11] Speaker 2: This person is hardcore, drank the kool aid maga and
[2:19] Speaker 2: we got into a discussion. It began as a discussion,
[2:25] Speaker 2: and I was just that day, as they say, if
[2:27] Speaker 2: you'll forgive me, I was just fresh out of focks
[2:30] Speaker 2: to give right, behold the field in which I grow
[2:35] Speaker 2: my fucks, and see that it is barren, okay, And
[2:43] Speaker 2: it was just I'd just come off the latest jaw
[2:46] Speaker 2: droppingly mind bogglingly horrifying headline, and I just said, how
[2:53] Speaker 2: dare these people, how dare they help light the MULLETIV
[3:00] Speaker 2: cocktail for the arsonist and then cheer him as he
[3:04] Speaker 2: burns it all down, and I know this is what
[3:07] Speaker 2: many of these people want. Well, he's our guy. We
[3:10] Speaker 2: put absolute trust in him. He is the great Savior
[3:14] Speaker 2: who has been anointed and appointed by our heavenly Savior,
[3:18] Speaker 2: and we are giving him the keys. We trust him
[3:21] Speaker 2: to burn it down and then he will build the
[3:23] Speaker 2: new world in our image or the image of our
[3:26] Speaker 2: God or religion or whatever. Bizarre, bizarre to watch these
[3:34] Speaker 2: people bang their bibles and invoke Jesus Christ while they
[3:38] Speaker 2: are enabling cruelty to the extreme, grift and corruption, predation
[3:44] Speaker 2: to the extreme. And I'm like, look, how can you
[3:48] Speaker 2: say that you support someone who is the antithesis of
[3:52] Speaker 2: the greatest teachings of Jesus Christ. It's the ultimate hypocrisy.
[3:58] Speaker 2: And she responds did with some screed about, well, the
[4:02] Speaker 2: immigrants are coming across the border to everything we have.
[4:07] Speaker 2: Aren't you worried about this encroachment on our great nation?
[4:11] Speaker 2: And I think there may have been a reference to
[4:13] Speaker 2: the deep state, or I mean this classic Fox news ism,
[4:17] Speaker 2: NEWSMAXA and and that kind of thing. It's obvious that
[4:22] Speaker 2: this person has been locked in a narrow conduit of
[4:25] Speaker 2: propaganda and disinformation. And we do not share the same reality.
[4:31] Speaker 2: And I'll admit I was not at my best. I
[4:34] Speaker 2: was not building bridges that day. I was in and
[4:37] Speaker 2: I was at the I was at the end of
[4:39] Speaker 2: my tether. And then she said this. You know, I'm
[4:45] Speaker 2: mature enough to be able to be in the same
[4:48] Speaker 2: room with someone I disagree with and still be friends.
[4:57] Speaker 2: Have you noticed that that sentiment usually comes down from
[5:00] Speaker 2: someone who is in the position of privilege. Have you
[5:05] Speaker 2: noticed the person who says, well, we should be able
[5:07] Speaker 2: to disagree and be friends. That person is usually not
[5:11] Speaker 2: in the crosshairs. So I respond, You have no idea
[5:15] Speaker 2: what it's like to be profiled as a person of
[5:18] Speaker 2: color ask in the street to show your ID because
[5:22] Speaker 2: of your ethnicity. You have no idea what it's like
[5:26] Speaker 2: to be called a predator or a pedophile lurking around
[5:31] Speaker 2: bathrooms because of your sexuality. You have no idea what
[5:37] Speaker 2: it's like to have a child ripped out of your
[5:39] Speaker 2: arms because you've been vilified as the evil immigrants, someone
[5:44] Speaker 2: who has been likely escaping oppression in another part of
[5:48] Speaker 2: the world, trying to find sanctuary and safety somewhere else.
[5:51] Speaker 2: You have no idea what that is like. You are
[5:55] Speaker 2: operating from a position of absolute privilege. People who worship
[6:01] Speaker 2: a different faith or no faith at all, who are
[6:03] Speaker 2: now watching the shadow of Christian nationalism looming over us.
[6:09] Speaker 2: Talking about Trump right now, who's wanting to establish some
[6:12] Speaker 2: other body that talks about religious liberty. We know they're
[6:16] Speaker 2: not talking about liberty for all religions or none. We
[6:20] Speaker 2: know this is a Christian power play, right He's pandering
[6:23] Speaker 2: to the evangelicals. I'm trying to explain, how in the
[6:28] Speaker 2: world can you be okay with Elon Musk totally unsupervised,
[6:34] Speaker 2: running rampant behind closed doors. He and like five college
[6:38] Speaker 2: kids nobody even knows until recently, with access to six
[6:44] Speaker 2: trillion dollars in federal treasury money, our social security numbers,
[6:50] Speaker 2: classified information. Somebody rightly said on Blue Sky they said,
[6:55] Speaker 2: you realize now these five college kids are prime targets
[7:00] Speaker 2: for Russian recruitment. And at first I kind of brush
[7:04] Speaker 2: that off is hyperbole, you know, it sounds like a
[7:06] Speaker 2: conspiracy theory, that's far fetched. And then I had breakfast
[7:09] Speaker 2: and thought about it. These kids and their kids running around,
[7:17] Speaker 2: one of them's got like a background in hacking, are
[7:21] Speaker 2: approached by the Russian government in secret and they say, Okay,
[7:27] Speaker 2: tell you what, here's twenty million dollars and we will
[7:30] Speaker 2: relocate you to a part of the world where you
[7:33] Speaker 2: cannot be extradited and you will be set up for life.
[7:37] Speaker 2: You can be a little mini musk. We'll do that
[7:40] Speaker 2: for you. All you have to do is give is
[7:42] Speaker 2: just a few pieces of classified information. I don't think
[7:47] Speaker 2: that's all that far fetched. All of these examples things
[7:53] Speaker 2: that if Biden or anyone else had done these overreaches
[7:57] Speaker 2: of power, my friend would have been livid. She would
[8:00] Speaker 2: have torn her Fox News T shirt. There would have
[8:02] Speaker 2: been tears of indignation. But now she's cheering. She's a cheerleader.
[8:07] Speaker 2: How could you Well, you know, I'm big enough to
[8:13] Speaker 2: be in the room with someone I disagree with and
[8:16] Speaker 2: be friends. You know what disagreement is between friends? Types
[8:22] Speaker 2: of salad dressing. Are you a Ford person or a
[8:26] Speaker 2: Chevy person? Chiefs are eagles at the Super Bowl? How
[8:34] Speaker 2: do we fix education in this country? I mean even
[8:38] Speaker 2: the more complex important discussions. What should the nature of
[8:42] Speaker 2: the structure of government be? We can talk about that.
[8:45] Speaker 2: We can disagree on, philosophy or even theology. Is the
[8:48] Speaker 2: regd what does that God look like and still be
[8:51] Speaker 2: friends a great Many of the people in my life
[8:53] Speaker 2: who I know and love are deeply religious, But I
[8:59] Speaker 2: am to enable an arsonist to burn it down and
[9:02] Speaker 2: hurt people. Is not a disagreement on opinion. It is
[9:06] Speaker 2: a clash of values. How am I supposed to high
[9:11] Speaker 2: five with and break bread with somebody who is actively
[9:16] Speaker 2: harming other people, who has enabled and empowered they they're
[9:20] Speaker 2: eating the dog's guy. All of that is messaging to
[9:25] Speaker 2: other and dehumanize human beings who are not white evangelical
[9:30] Speaker 2: American Christian nationalists. How can these people look at the
[9:38] Speaker 2: oligarchs and somehow believe that the billionaires give a shit
[9:43] Speaker 2: what happens to them. Oh, yes, they have come in
[9:47] Speaker 2: with all of their wealth and power, but they're really
[9:50] Speaker 2: an advocate for me, the little person. You think Donald
[9:54] Speaker 2: Trump or Elon Musk give one single rats ass about
[9:58] Speaker 2: people who make sixty thousand dollars a year. Do you
[10:03] Speaker 2: honestly think they care? They're blind as a bat. Now.
[10:08] Speaker 2: I understand the power of indoctrination and cultural bubbles, thought bubbles.
[10:13] Speaker 2: I get it. I understand. Hell I came out of
[10:16] Speaker 2: that culture anyway, But I don't think I'm getting myself
[10:19] Speaker 2: too much credit when I say that even when I
[10:21] Speaker 2: was a Christian, there is no way I would not
[10:25] Speaker 2: have seen this train coming. I remember when Oral Roberts,
[10:30] Speaker 2: the televangelist, was doing his campaigns. This was back in
[10:35] Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties. Now, for those who don't know who
[10:37] Speaker 2: Oral Roberts was, just real fast. He was a tent
[10:42] Speaker 2: revival preacher and a faith healer. That's kind of how
[10:45] Speaker 2: he came to prominence. And he would go and he
[10:47] Speaker 2: would erect these big tents, and he would take the
[10:49] Speaker 2: stage and he would have people come forward and he
[10:51] Speaker 2: would pray he over their infirmed bodies, and lo and behold,
[10:55] Speaker 2: the power of God came down and they walked again,
[10:58] Speaker 2: and they threw their medicines way and praise Jesus. James Randy,
[11:02] Speaker 2: the Great Skeptic, did an entire book called The Faith Healers,
[11:07] Speaker 2: which exposed people like Oral Roberts who were traveling around
[11:11] Speaker 2: with actors who would go from place to place, tent
[11:16] Speaker 2: to tent. They would stage it, or they would bring
[11:20] Speaker 2: in people who weren't like double amputees, but just somebody
[11:25] Speaker 2: who may have had a bad back that day. Get
[11:28] Speaker 2: him all ramped up, get the endorphins going. They stand up.
[11:32] Speaker 2: There's a big hug, Thank you Jesus. By the way,
[11:34] Speaker 2: here's an offering plate. Oral Roberts came forward and he said, look,
[11:39] Speaker 2: if you don't give me this amount of money and
[11:41] Speaker 2: the millions of dollars to do whatever, God appeared to
[11:46] Speaker 2: me and he told me that I would no longer
[11:48] Speaker 2: have any use on this planet and he would kill me.
[11:53] Speaker 2: You must give the money or God is going to
[11:56] Speaker 2: take my life. Because it's obvious I am of no
[11:59] Speaker 2: earthly good. Now, even in the church, bullshit meters were
[12:05] Speaker 2: going off, danger right, gripter con man, horseshit, and I
[12:16] Speaker 2: was right there. My parents met at Oral Roberts University.
[12:20] Speaker 2: They knew the man. These were theologian level believers. They
[12:23] Speaker 2: were so pissed at me for saying that Oral Roberts
[12:28] Speaker 2: was full of crap. But even as a devout believer,
[12:32] Speaker 2: I knew I saw that coming. Remember when he said
[12:34] Speaker 2: he saw the nine hundred foot tall Jesus. He had
[12:37] Speaker 2: a vision and he wanted to build this place called
[12:39] Speaker 2: the City of Faith. It's going to be a hospital
[12:44] Speaker 2: where the sick can come and get care. Why would
[12:48] Speaker 2: a faith healer need a hospital, all right, hospital your
[12:55] Speaker 2: faith healer? Okay, So Jesus appeared to him nine hundred
[12:59] Speaker 2: feet tall, which was three hundred feet taller than the building.
[13:04] Speaker 2: Jesus wanted Oral Roberts to build the six hundred foot
[13:07] Speaker 2: tall City of Faith. Oh, send me your money. We're
[13:11] Speaker 2: going to build this mecca for the sick. They built it,
[13:17] Speaker 2: gaudy monstrosity, and the thing went bankrupt. Why in the
[13:24] Speaker 2: world would a God ordained building not be solvent? Why
[13:29] Speaker 2: can God not pay the bills for the hospital? And
[13:33] Speaker 2: so now it's office space. It's office space. You want
[13:37] Speaker 2: to know how I know that because the Christian radio
[13:40] Speaker 2: station I worked at for ten years occupied the fifty
[13:44] Speaker 2: ninth floor of that building as office space. And I
[13:50] Speaker 2: saw that coming. So I'm convinced I would have seen
[13:53] Speaker 2: the grifter, right. I would have seen the oligarch, I
[13:56] Speaker 2: would have seen the con man. I would have seen
[13:58] Speaker 2: the predator. I don't think I'm giving And I'll bet
[14:00] Speaker 2: many of you who were believers would have been the
[14:02] Speaker 2: same way. And you would have looked and in the
[14:05] Speaker 2: love of Jesus, in the spirit of the Lord, you
[14:07] Speaker 2: would have said, what the actual fuck? He was hot?
[14:18] Speaker 2: And what I got back was this is a mandate
[14:22] Speaker 2: of the people. He's doing God's good work. They were impressed.
[14:29] Speaker 2: They're impressed by like the photo of Donald Trump in
[14:31] Speaker 2: front of the church. He does not attend waiving the Bible.
[14:34] Speaker 2: He does not read. That's all they needed to see, right,
[14:36] Speaker 2: because that was marketing messaging. That's all they needed. And
[14:39] Speaker 2: they were like, yes, he's the man of God. Perhaps
[14:44] Speaker 2: he'll read to us out of two Corinthians Jesus. And
[14:54] Speaker 2: then then came the inevitable. When things continue to escalate,
[15:00] Speaker 2: I was called a Satanist. I'm a Christian. You know,
[15:05] Speaker 2: I love Jesus. I'm a Christian as if that's an
[15:09] Speaker 2: insulator against damaging and destructive and stupid ideas. And this
[15:14] Speaker 2: is often what happens when conversations become emotional, and I'm
[15:18] Speaker 2: a Christian. And what that does is to separate critics
[15:22] Speaker 2: into the other category. Well, if you're not of Jesus,
[15:25] Speaker 2: who are you of? You are of the great Satan
[15:29] Speaker 2: beels above the devil who has come to steal, kill
[15:32] Speaker 2: and destroy not just me, but all the Democrats and
[15:35] Speaker 2: everybody who stands against even the Christians, you know, even
[15:38] Speaker 2: those who are believers who are standing against Trump are
[15:40] Speaker 2: standing against God's will and his appointed savior, his proxy
[15:44] Speaker 2: on earth. Therefore, they are in league with Satan. And
[15:47] Speaker 2: I responded, I wondered how long it would be before
[15:50] Speaker 2: somebody invoked the devil they stomp off. That friendship is
[15:59] Speaker 2: over and I don't feel any sense of loss. Isn't
[16:03] Speaker 2: that weird? I mean, it's not like we hung out.
[16:06] Speaker 2: We never went to dinner, but it was always pleasant.
[16:10] Speaker 2: But I just came to the point where I'm like,
[16:15] Speaker 2: how could you? How can you? I don't know. There
[16:28] Speaker 2: are several people that Natalie and I used to connect
[16:31] Speaker 2: with that we just we just can't pick up the phone.
[16:36] Speaker 2: Dinner invitations come in, we say no, I think you know,
[16:39] Speaker 2: we'll catch you next time. We have physically disconnected. I
[16:45] Speaker 2: just cannot be in the same physical space. And there
[16:48] Speaker 2: were some who were like, well, Seth just wants to
[16:50] Speaker 2: be in an echo chamber, just being petty, and maybe
[16:53] Speaker 2: those things are true. I'm human, or maybe I simply
[16:59] Speaker 2: don't want a glad hand and yuck yuck it up
[17:04] Speaker 2: with somebody who has put a convicted felon, arsonist predator
[17:09] Speaker 2: Kahn in pretty much a totalitarian chair and sat back
[17:15] Speaker 2: and cheered him as he sets fire to the entire
[17:18] Speaker 2: goddamn thing. I can't be in this. I cannot. I
[17:26] Speaker 2: hit a wall. I just can't. I don't know how
[17:30] Speaker 2: to even how do we even stop it? I haven't
[17:34] Speaker 2: seen many organizations or organized efforts. There have been a
[17:36] Speaker 2: few protests, but and we get overwhelmed. All right, I've
[17:41] Speaker 2: contacted my congress people. But beyond that, what do we do?
[17:47] Speaker 2: What can we do? I know there are there are
[17:51] Speaker 2: tens of millions of people who are jaw dropping, They
[17:54] Speaker 2: are alarmed to the nth degree, And all we need
[17:58] Speaker 2: is where do we go? Oh, how do we keep
[18:03] Speaker 2: the people out of the treasury? What do we do
[18:05] Speaker 2: now that our private personal information, social security and all
[18:10] Speaker 2: of these other things, all of the money and the
[18:12] Speaker 2: passwords and the classified documents have been sort of perused
[18:15] Speaker 2: by Elon and his minions. Now, what do we do
[18:17] Speaker 2: the whole thing's compromise? What can we do? I don't know?
[18:22] Speaker 2: And I get overwhelmed by it, And then I want
[18:25] Speaker 2: to go and walk into the forest and make canoes,
[18:28] Speaker 2: you know. I want to play cat videos on TikTok,
[18:31] Speaker 2: and I want to just sit in the corner, rock
[18:33] Speaker 2: back and forth and pat my dog. You ever feel
[18:35] Speaker 2: that way? And I think that's what they want. They
[18:37] Speaker 2: want to overwhelm us so that we blink ourselves out
[18:40] Speaker 2: of the equation, which gives them even more latitude to
[18:43] Speaker 2: do whatever. I'm sorry, I am so sorry for going on.
[18:49] Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. I can't sleep at night. I've been
[18:55] Speaker 2: waking up at three in the morning. I can go
[18:57] Speaker 2: to sleep pretty quickly, but then I wake up about
[19:03] Speaker 2: three three thirty every night. My mind is a hard
[19:08] Speaker 2: drive spinning, and I sit and think about all the
[19:14] Speaker 2: stuff that may have happened in the last few hours,
[19:17] Speaker 2: and I get worked up, and I can feel the
[19:20] Speaker 2: vein on my forehead and my muscle's tense, and my
[19:23] Speaker 2: heart starts to race. And then I think, well, I'm
[19:25] Speaker 2: not going to get up because it's three four in
[19:27] Speaker 2: the morning, four thirty, but I can't sleep. What am
[19:30] Speaker 2: I going to do? And by the time I have
[19:32] Speaker 2: five o'clock hits and I actually do get out of bed,
[19:35] Speaker 2: I am so off. I'm so worked up, I'm so angry. Ugh,
[19:47] Speaker 2: tell me I'm not the only one. Tell me I'm
[19:51] Speaker 2: not the only one. I think friendships are ending all
[19:56] Speaker 2: over the country, maybe around the world. I think it's
[20:00] Speaker 2: critical mass. We can disagree about philosophy and theology, we
[20:06] Speaker 2: can't disagree about this something else. This is something else.
[20:13] Speaker 2: You give an arsonist the keys to my house. That's
[20:18] Speaker 2: not friendship. Lots of show still to come, so many callers.
[20:25] Speaker 2: We will do that next. Thanks for your support. As
[20:35] Speaker 2: a patron. You can get this show early and commercial
[20:38] Speaker 2: free Patreon dot com, slash Seth Andrews. I've got is
[20:47] Speaker 2: it Ali? At eight four to three? That's me, Hi Ali?
[20:51] Speaker 2: Thanks for calling? What do you think and what's on
[20:53] Speaker 2: your mind?
[20:55] Speaker 3: Just wanted to share something I guess kind of lighter.
[20:58] Speaker 3: I've got a boss who is super MAGA supporter, and
[21:02] Speaker 3: he usually says a bunch of crazy, racist, sexist stuff,
[21:06] Speaker 3: but this week he said something just more really funny stupid,
[21:11] Speaker 3: and me and my husband have been laughing about it
[21:13] Speaker 3: all week, so I thought i'd share.
[21:14] Speaker 2: Okay, I want to hear funny stupid, all right.
[21:17] Speaker 3: So he is clearly one of those that's on some
[21:22] Speaker 3: message boards that I don't see. So he's just in
[21:24] Speaker 3: his own world, kind of like your friend where it's like,
[21:27] Speaker 3: don't even know what he's on. But he came in
[21:29] Speaker 3: this week and he said, get this, I just found
[21:33] Speaker 3: out broccoli is not God made. And I didn't really
[21:38] Speaker 3: know how to respond to it.
[21:40] Speaker 4: At first.
[21:41] Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not sure what you're trying to
[21:43] Speaker 3: tell me. And he goes off on this big speel
[21:45] Speaker 3: about GMO and how broccoli is just modified, manipulated, man
[21:50] Speaker 3: made caulieflower and all this stuff, and I'm just looking
[21:54] Speaker 3: at him like, do you not have you never heard
[21:58] Speaker 3: of agriculture, not understand how agriculture works? So yeah, me
[22:03] Speaker 3: and my husband have been laughing all week. BROCCOLI's not
[22:06] Speaker 3: God made?
[22:07] Speaker 2: Is there now a broccoli boycott? As he refused to
[22:11] Speaker 2: eat the broccoli because it is not of God.
[22:14] Speaker 3: I don't know what podcast or meme or what he
[22:18] Speaker 3: stumbled across, but it's he only eats hot dogs anyways,
[22:21] Speaker 3: they don't put brocol The funny thing to me is
[22:26] Speaker 3: like he's over here just completely like mind blown because
[22:31] Speaker 3: you've found out about agriculture. I guess that broccoli is
[22:34] Speaker 3: from cauliflowers. I wonder how much his mind would be
[22:38] Speaker 3: blown if he knew that God was man made? WHOA, Like,
[22:44] Speaker 3: we're just in different worlds. It's it's hard to have
[22:46] Speaker 3: a conversation.
[22:47] Speaker 2: Ali. Do you remember that old Ray Comfort video that
[22:51] Speaker 2: he did with Kirk Cameron and he I may have
[22:54] Speaker 2: to pull the audio up, but he was talking about
[22:58] Speaker 2: how God made the banana perfectly for human beings. It
[23:01] Speaker 2: was created just for us. Look, it fits perfectly in
[23:04] Speaker 2: your hand. It was very foul like, of course, when
[23:06] Speaker 2: he was holding it up.
[23:08] Speaker 5: Behold the atheist's nightmare. Now, if you study a well
[23:11] Speaker 5: made banana, you'll find on the far side through are
[23:14] Speaker 5: three ridges. On the close side two ridges. If you
[23:17] Speaker 5: get your hand ready to grip a banana, you'll find
[23:19] Speaker 5: on the far side there are three grooves. On the
[23:21] Speaker 5: close side two grooves. The banana and the hand are
[23:24] Speaker 5: perfectly made, one for the other. You'll find the maker
[23:27] Speaker 5: of the banana, or Mighty God, has made it with
[23:29] Speaker 5: a non slip surface. It has outward indicators of inward
[23:33] Speaker 5: contents green too early, yellow, just right, black, too late. Now,
[23:38] Speaker 5: if you go to the top of the banana, you'll find,
[23:40] Speaker 5: as with the soda can makers, they place to tab
[23:43] Speaker 5: at the top. So God has placed a tab at
[23:45] Speaker 5: the top. When you pull the tab, the content stone
[23:48] Speaker 5: squirt in your face. You'll find the wrapper, which is
[23:50] Speaker 5: by it of gradable, has perforations. Notice how gracefully it
[23:55] Speaker 5: sits over the human hand. Notice has a point at
[23:57] Speaker 5: the top for ease of entry. It's just the right
[23:59] Speaker 5: shape the human mouth. It's chewy, easy to digest. It's
[24:03] Speaker 5: even curved towards the face to make the whole process
[24:06] Speaker 5: so much easier.
[24:07] Speaker 2: And somebody had to tell right comfort, Hey, dude, this
[24:11] Speaker 2: is not a banana as found in nature. This has
[24:15] Speaker 2: been genetically manipulated by human beings to provide the banana
[24:20] Speaker 2: that we have today. And he had to go back
[24:21] Speaker 2: and red face. He had to go back and reverse himself.
[24:25] Speaker 2: It's kind of that kind of deal, isn't it.
[24:27] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[24:28] Speaker 3: I think that they're picturing the cartoon picture of like
[24:33] Speaker 3: the garden of Eden, and there's broccoli and there's bananas
[24:36] Speaker 3: in the garden, and it all makes sense in their head,
[24:39] Speaker 3: I think, is where they're at. It's hard to respond sometimes.
[24:43] Speaker 3: I got to collect myself before I say something, because
[24:45] Speaker 3: he is my boss and I love my gal Allie.
[24:48] Speaker 2: I've never before thought about broccoli growing in the garden
[24:51] Speaker 2: of Eden. You know, It's always for me, been like
[24:54] Speaker 2: it's God made the fruit right. It was always the
[24:57] Speaker 2: apple and the orange and the lemon trees and maybe
[25:00] Speaker 2: a few azaleas. But I never thought about broccoli in
[25:03] Speaker 2: the gardens. So now I got that mental image.
[25:06] Speaker 3: Well, it wasn't there. It wasn't there. Satan made it
[25:09] Speaker 3: so Satan.
[25:10] Speaker 2: Well you all right, spiels abouts broccoli is out to
[25:14] Speaker 2: get you, and it's coming for your children, probably across
[25:17] Speaker 2: the border. It's it's deep state. Broccli Ali, thanks for
[25:21] Speaker 2: the warning, thanks for the call.
[25:25] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[25:25] Speaker 2: Let's see you later. Oh they're afraid of Broccli. What
[25:31] Speaker 2: can you do with these people? I mentioned this in
[25:35] Speaker 2: a speech that I'm giving. I just finished writing it.
[25:38] Speaker 2: I think it's going to be a good one. I'm
[25:40] Speaker 2: giving it at the Florida Freethought Conference, which is coming
[25:43] Speaker 2: up in Orlando the weekend of March fourteenth, fifteenth, and sixteenth.
[25:47] Speaker 2: Free flow flo dot org get tickets. I hope to
[25:51] Speaker 2: see you there. Forest Valcai and a bunch of other speakers.
[25:54] Speaker 2: Kate Cohen's going to be there. But I'm talking. There's
[25:57] Speaker 2: a slide that shows a receipt eight and the total
[26:01] Speaker 2: is six dollars and sixty six cents. Now, I shit,
[26:05] Speaker 2: you not. There are people who when they go to
[26:08] Speaker 2: a store and they buy something candy bar and a
[26:11] Speaker 2: pop or whatever, and this total comes to six six six,
[26:15] Speaker 2: they will not make the purchase. They will say hang
[26:19] Speaker 2: on to the cashier, and they will go get a
[26:22] Speaker 2: pack of gum or some tic tax or or a
[26:26] Speaker 2: bag of chips, to some other product to get the
[26:30] Speaker 2: number to not be sixty sixty six. They're terrified of
[26:35] Speaker 2: store receipts. There is a woman in California. There was
[26:40] Speaker 2: a series of sixes at the end of her credit
[26:42] Speaker 2: card number. She called and complained because the credit card
[26:47] Speaker 2: company had given her the Devil card and she did
[26:50] Speaker 2: not want to make purchases, likely because she bought into
[26:54] Speaker 2: an end time scenario. Right, This has got to be
[26:57] Speaker 2: the mark on the beast. There's thrice sex is at
[26:59] Speaker 2: the end of my credit card number. You got to
[27:01] Speaker 2: be shitting me. It's a terrified, terrified demographic. Seven seven three.
[27:09] Speaker 2: I don't see a name. Hi, who's this.
[27:12] Speaker 7: I'm sorry, it's Tonny again.
[27:14] Speaker 6: Can you hear me?
[27:15] Speaker 2: Fey Oh, I'm so glad it's you. Now. You are
[27:18] Speaker 2: as clear as can be. Thanks for your patience. Let's
[27:21] Speaker 2: talk what's on your mind.
[27:23] Speaker 7: Yes, I was just letting you know that I'm also angry,
[27:26] Speaker 7: and I also wake up with worry and stuff like that,
[27:30] Speaker 7: and I'm not really sure how to deal with the anger.
[27:34] Speaker 7: And I was just mentioning that I'm part of like
[27:37] Speaker 7: at least four marginalized groups. I'm a woman, I'm black,
[27:42] Speaker 7: I'm bisexual, and I'm an atheist.
[27:45] Speaker 8: So it's a lot to deal with.
[27:48] Speaker 7: And when Trump was elected, I befriended anyone who voted
[27:53] Speaker 7: for him that was on my friend's list, which, yeah,
[27:56] Speaker 7: I did have Trump supporting friends because I'm like a
[28:01] Speaker 7: kind person and I was trying to convince them and like.
[28:05] Speaker 8: Help them understand.
[28:07] Speaker 7: And it's I've just been like kind of I felt
[28:11] Speaker 7: devastated that night and since then, like any like news
[28:16] Speaker 7: story I see, or like anytime anybody says let's just
[28:20] Speaker 7: all get along. It's just like a rage that I
[28:23] Speaker 7: haven't experienced in a really long time.
[28:25] Speaker 8: And I'm normally just like a happy, upbeat, optimistic person.
[28:30] Speaker 7: So this anger is new, and I really don't know
[28:34] Speaker 7: how to deal with it.
[28:35] Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, well it makes us human, and I'm
[28:40] Speaker 2: actually relieved that I don't. I mean, I feel I'm
[28:45] Speaker 2: up to minds. Maybe you get this. Part of me
[28:48] Speaker 2: thinks I need to be the adult in the room,
[28:52] Speaker 2: and then part of me thinks, screw these people and
[28:55] Speaker 2: the harm they're doing. And then I go back and think, well,
[28:59] Speaker 2: do I really want to be in the business of
[29:00] Speaker 2: changing minds? Am I going to give up on this demographic?
[29:03] Speaker 2: I was once, you know, brainwashed and had some horrible ideas.
[29:07] Speaker 2: I was a bigot against gay people and lots of
[29:09] Speaker 2: other things. And then I switch and say, how obvious
[29:13] Speaker 2: does the harm have to be? These people are unreachable.
[29:17] Speaker 2: We're just gonna have to steamroll over them because whoever
[29:21] Speaker 2: can convince them is going to be a better person
[29:23] Speaker 2: than I am. I go back and forth and back
[29:26] Speaker 2: and forth all day. Do you relate to that, Connie.
[29:29] Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that makes
[29:35] Speaker 7: sense to me. Lately it's been a lot more like
[29:37] Speaker 7: screw these people. Yeah no, but yeah, definitely. I just
[29:43] Speaker 7: don't know how to deal with it. It's it's rough, and
[29:46] Speaker 7: I guess it's good to just hear that other people
[29:48] Speaker 7: deal with it too.
[29:50] Speaker 6: Yeah, well, yeah, let me do this.
[29:53] Speaker 2: I don't want this to sound sacraine at all, but
[29:56] Speaker 2: whatever happens, you are. You're safe here in this community,
[30:02] Speaker 2: and you're loved and honored and valued here on this
[30:04] Speaker 2: show and with the people who are watching and listening,
[30:07] Speaker 2: and you're not the only one who's afraid for the future.
[30:10] Speaker 2: But we're not going down without a fight, and we
[30:12] Speaker 2: got your back. Okay, Connie, Okay, thank you, all right,
[30:16] Speaker 2: big hug.
[30:17] Speaker 8: We'll tell you later. Yeah.
[30:20] Speaker 2: Oh, are you there? I'm sorry. I thought you were done.
[30:21] Speaker 2: You were saying goodbye. Was there anything else you wanted
[30:24] Speaker 2: to offer up?
[30:25] Speaker 7: Well, just any strategies that you might have.
[30:30] Speaker 2: I am I'm failing you, Connie. I have no idea
[30:35] Speaker 2: beyond activism, beyond not giving up. The only thing that
[30:39] Speaker 2: I have been working through is this emotional desire to
[30:42] Speaker 2: disconnect and say screw it, which is the worst thing,
[30:46] Speaker 2: and it's what they want. And so despite the fact
[30:50] Speaker 2: that I'm not sleeping, and then I feel like my
[30:53] Speaker 2: jaws clenched all the time, and I cannot believe this
[30:56] Speaker 2: is happening, and I know the rest of the world
[30:59] Speaker 2: is feeling the same way. The only thing I know
[31:02] Speaker 2: to do is to remain engaged, and I'm trying to
[31:05] Speaker 2: remain engaged. Beyond I need to post the latest outrage
[31:10] Speaker 2: on Facebook. I'm trying to be engaged in a way
[31:13] Speaker 2: where I am contacting the people who represent my state.
[31:17] Speaker 2: I am contacting people at the federal level. You know,
[31:21] Speaker 2: let's all add our voices to that. If there's a
[31:24] Speaker 2: protest nearby or even within driving one hundred miles driving distance,
[31:29] Speaker 2: I want to be a part of that. I'll show
[31:30] Speaker 2: up with my placards. I want to be visible. I
[31:33] Speaker 2: want to engage in a way that is more than
[31:36] Speaker 2: just I hit, like and share on social media. That's
[31:41] Speaker 2: been how I've been engaging, but it hasn't been cathartic
[31:45] Speaker 2: in any way. Mostly it's just the only thing I
[31:47] Speaker 2: know to do. I don't have any wisdom for you.
[31:50] Speaker 2: Maybe somebody in the chat would have some, so let's
[31:53] Speaker 2: see what they have to say.
[31:54] Speaker 7: Okay, okay, but that is actually a lot of wisdom,
[31:57] Speaker 7: and that is actually really helpful.
[32:00] Speaker 8: So thank you.
[32:01] Speaker 2: Really, that was an accident, Connie. That was an accident.
[32:05] Speaker 2: That's just I just bumped into that wall inadvertently. All right,
[32:09] Speaker 2: Well you are greatly loved, Connie. You hang in there,
[32:11] Speaker 2: all right, all right, have a good day. I fall
[32:15] Speaker 2: into that. You know, you spend all day raging on Facebook,
[32:18] Speaker 2: and I know I've got to post some stuff I'll
[32:20] Speaker 2: post on my personal or on the Thinking Atheist page necessarily.
[32:24] Speaker 2: Here's what's going on. We need to be well informed.
[32:27] Speaker 2: Here's the latest encroachment on human rights. Here's the latest
[32:31] Speaker 2: strategy by Christian nationalist. Here's the latest batshit law that
[32:34] Speaker 2: they're trying to put in. Here's what's going to happen
[32:37] Speaker 2: at the Supreme Court when the religious charter school case
[32:40] Speaker 2: eventually ends up before a stacked court that's been taken
[32:44] Speaker 2: over in a hostile way by the zealots. Here, here, here,
[32:48] Speaker 2: and here. I think there is some of that that
[32:51] Speaker 2: must be done, But I do think that we can
[32:54] Speaker 2: easily fall into the trap where that's all we do
[32:57] Speaker 2: all day, raging, raging, raging, raging, raging. But I don't
[33:01] Speaker 2: think like share like share is going to get us there.
[33:05] Speaker 2: We are going to have to engage in a more
[33:07] Speaker 2: personal and strategic level with elected officials and with the
[33:11] Speaker 2: culture that we live in. I think we need to
[33:14] Speaker 2: be unignorable, right And what does that look like. I'm
[33:19] Speaker 2: still working that out in my own mind. I don't
[33:22] Speaker 2: know necessarily what that looks like, but I want to
[33:26] Speaker 2: be a thorn in these people's side. I want to
[33:28] Speaker 2: make it inconvenient and unpleasant to hurt other people, don't you.
[33:36] Speaker 2: I want them to feel real grief and pain whenever
[33:41] Speaker 2: they cause pain on other people. I want an action, reaction,
[33:44] Speaker 2: series of consequences. Do I know what those consequences are?
[33:48] Speaker 2: I don't know. I need someone to help organize it
[33:51] Speaker 2: so I can be a part of it, because I'm
[33:53] Speaker 2: not big or strong enough or smart enough to do it.
[33:58] Speaker 2: I'm frustrated with the Democratic Party. There were many people
[34:01] Speaker 2: who've been speaking out and beyond by the way some Republicans.
[34:05] Speaker 2: But where's the organized effort. Where is the immediate response
[34:10] Speaker 2: en mass to the shock and all campaign that has
[34:12] Speaker 2: been wheelded against this. More has to happen, and more quickly.
[34:16] Speaker 2: What does that look like? I'm overwhelmed. I'm not going
[34:19] Speaker 2: to go off on a tangent again. Sorry about that.
[34:24] Speaker 2: Let's see Alan at two four zero. Thanks for your patience.
[34:29] Speaker 2: Are you there?
[34:30] Speaker 9: I am great to talk to you, if you'll excuse me,
[34:33] Speaker 9: I'm not going to talk about current of enter politics,
[34:35] Speaker 9: so we can get off of those miserable topics for
[34:40] Speaker 9: a second. And I just had an observation for you
[34:42] Speaker 9: and wanted to get your thoughts on it. I was
[34:44] Speaker 9: listening to your show a.
[34:45] Speaker 10: Little while back.
[34:46] Speaker 9: You did a show dedicated to Carl Sagan, I think
[34:50] Speaker 9: it was on the anniversary of his death, and you
[34:52] Speaker 9: played a lot of audio of his and something he
[34:54] Speaker 9: said struck me, and I just wanted to get your
[34:56] Speaker 9: thoughts on My thoughts on it, which were that there
[34:59] Speaker 9: were there is one particular.
[35:00] Speaker 10: Thing he said.
[35:01] Speaker 9: I don't want us to take him out of context
[35:03] Speaker 9: because I don't think it fully reflects his beliefs based
[35:06] Speaker 9: on everything else he said, but there was there was
[35:09] Speaker 9: somewhere where he made a statement along the lines of
[35:12] Speaker 9: what you often used to hear of science explains the how,
[35:16] Speaker 9: but religion explains the why. And there's not a quote
[35:19] Speaker 9: of what he said, but it's.
[35:20] Speaker 4: Along those lines.
[35:21] Speaker 9: It was kind of just seeding the source of morality,
[35:25] Speaker 9: you know, to say, well, science isn't you know, isn't
[35:28] Speaker 9: primarily for someone with that And there's plenty of other
[35:30] Speaker 9: quotes of his where he said otherwise, So I don't
[35:32] Speaker 9: think I think that was sort of situational in whatever
[35:34] Speaker 9: conversation he was having at that moment. But the thing
[35:37] Speaker 9: it made me realize is in a combination of things
[35:39] Speaker 9: I've heard from you and a lot of things from
[35:41] Speaker 9: Forest Balcai. Is what I don't hear as often as
[35:44] Speaker 9: I think maybe I should is science taking credit for
[35:50] Speaker 9: under starting to understand the source of morality. So I
[35:53] Speaker 9: think when you hear debates and counter apologetics and things
[35:56] Speaker 9: like that from a few decades ago, that was kind
[35:59] Speaker 9: of where atheism seemed to be, to say, you need
[36:02] Speaker 9: to look at science to explain how things work, but
[36:05] Speaker 9: we're not, you know, but can we don't have the
[36:08] Speaker 9: explanations for those deep answers. And I think, like so
[36:10] Speaker 9: many other things, like the origin of species, like the
[36:14] Speaker 9: mechanics of the planets, science has advanced to where actually
[36:19] Speaker 9: it can explain that, and we should be letting people
[36:21] Speaker 9: know that. We should be saying we have a better
[36:24] Speaker 9: explanation for morality than religion does through evolutionary biology, that
[36:28] Speaker 9: we're a social species, that you know that we can
[36:29] Speaker 9: observe moral behavior in other species, things that you jealousy
[36:34] Speaker 9: and sharing and all those other empathy and right. But
[36:37] Speaker 9: I just don't hear that come up as often as
[36:40] Speaker 9: I wish I did, because I think it's a point
[36:42] Speaker 9: in the column for science and Atheism that we should
[36:44] Speaker 9: be taking credit for. I just wanted to get your thoughts.
[36:47] Speaker 2: I think I may have had the same thought when
[36:49] Speaker 2: I was putting it together. It's a little bit of
[36:51] Speaker 2: Stephen Jay Gould and Carl Sagan, who I continue to
[36:56] Speaker 2: just marvel at all these years after his death. But
[37:01] Speaker 2: I think when he was communicating that kind of thing,
[37:05] Speaker 2: he may have been strategic about it. This is my inference.
[37:09] Speaker 2: I don't know, but I'm not clairvoyant, you know, But
[37:12] Speaker 2: I think he was trying to say that people have
[37:15] Speaker 2: long used religion because they are meaning seekers. But I
[37:20] Speaker 2: don't think Carl Sagan believed that religion filled a hole
[37:25] Speaker 2: that science had left, you know. Reading the rest of
[37:28] Speaker 2: his work, I think, you know, he thought, there is
[37:33] Speaker 2: enough awe and wonder, and we are learning enough answers
[37:37] Speaker 2: through science, the scientific method, curiosity, wonder, explorations of ourselves
[37:42] Speaker 2: and into the cosmos. This is good enough, you know,
[37:45] Speaker 2: it's wonderful enough. But I was interested in his life.
[37:50] Speaker 11: The language is that in that time, like you said,
[37:56] Speaker 11: it was tactical. It was in that time that was
[37:58] Speaker 11: the conversation he could have with the resistance to trying
[38:02] Speaker 11: to say we can explain morality.
[38:04] Speaker 9: Too, would have derailed. Yeah, I'm not saying he believed
[38:08] Speaker 9: that religion adequately explained morality and science didn't. But it
[38:12] Speaker 9: was more like it was a snapshot of that time,
[38:14] Speaker 9: because that quote was probably from at least twenty years ago,
[38:17] Speaker 9: if not more. And I think if that same conversation
[38:20] Speaker 9: we had today, if he were here, I think he
[38:21] Speaker 9: would probably have a different answer. And I think the
[38:25] Speaker 9: active atheists who are engaging camera apologetics and things should
[38:28] Speaker 9: now be boldly saying that answer of you don't even
[38:31] Speaker 9: have that religion doesn't even have the explanation for morality
[38:34] Speaker 9: that science.
[38:35] Speaker 2: Now, I think that's more than fair Gould, Stephen doctor
[38:39] Speaker 2: Gould was. He took it a lot further. He said
[38:43] Speaker 2: that religion and science didn't overlap. They were two lanes
[38:48] Speaker 2: that didn't intersect, and he spoke about it like we
[38:52] Speaker 2: may have needed both and they didn't really affect each other.
[38:55] Speaker 2: And I totally disagree. And I'm an admire admirer. I'm
[38:59] Speaker 2: an admirer of Stephen J. Goule's work right, one of
[39:03] Speaker 2: the premier scientists of his time, But this idea that
[39:07] Speaker 2: I would need religion. We understand why religions developed. We
[39:11] Speaker 2: understand we were filling blanks. We're meaning makers, we're alleviating fears.
[39:15] Speaker 2: We understand we're self medicating with religious mythologies and fairy
[39:20] Speaker 2: tales and stories of a happy ending. We get that.
[39:23] Speaker 2: But do I think we need religion in this enlightenment
[39:27] Speaker 2: to solve our problems and to provide meaning.
[39:31] Speaker 10: No.
[39:31] Speaker 2: I think now we are the meaning makers, and I
[39:33] Speaker 2: think Sagan. Yeah, you and I agreed that Sagan was there,
[39:37] Speaker 2: but he was measuring his language in front of a
[39:39] Speaker 2: mixed crowd so that he could perhaps better communicate science
[39:44] Speaker 2: without putting people off. I don't know that seems fair.
[39:48] Speaker 9: Yeah, okay, great, And so I guess in the context
[39:53] Speaker 9: of the show so far, I guess we could look
[39:55] Speaker 9: at this as something this movie in the right direction
[39:58] Speaker 9: the conversation. Today, science has better explanations for more things,
[40:02] Speaker 9: clearly than even a couple decades ago. And that's where
[40:06] Speaker 9: I mentioned Forrest, you know, kind of putting that together,
[40:08] Speaker 9: where he says, you know, will a biology textbook from
[40:11] Speaker 9: a decade or two ago is already it's not wrong,
[40:14] Speaker 9: but it's so incomplete that it's out of date, and
[40:16] Speaker 9: I think it's it's an example we should use of
[40:18] Speaker 9: the idea that science is just going to keep taking
[40:21] Speaker 9: pieces of the God of the gaps away. And it's
[40:25] Speaker 9: as you go through history, each of these things, and
[40:27] Speaker 9: it does seem to me from the little I know
[40:29] Speaker 9: that really this idea of moral behavior being explained really
[40:33] Speaker 9: in the scientific evolutionary sense, is a pretty recent thing,
[40:36] Speaker 9: that it's really being thoroughly understood, and you know, it
[40:39] Speaker 9: won't be the last thing, and we should keep reminding
[40:42] Speaker 9: people of that, like the materialist and scientific view is
[40:45] Speaker 9: actually providing answers.
[40:48] Speaker 2: That's good stuff. Man, Thanks for a great call. You're
[40:50] Speaker 2: much appreciated.
[40:52] Speaker 4: Yeah, great to talk to you.
[40:53] Speaker 2: Thanks Casual Later el I pull this up quickly. Carl
[40:58] Speaker 2: Sagan on the meaning of life. He said, in the
[41:02] Speaker 2: past few decades, the United States and the Soviet Union
[41:05] Speaker 2: have accomplished something that unless we destroy ourselves first, will
[41:09] Speaker 2: be remembered a thousand years from now.
[41:11] Speaker 10: Now.
[41:11] Speaker 2: Again, this was written decades ago, and I would be
[41:15] Speaker 2: curious to see what Sagan said about the current state
[41:18] Speaker 2: of affairs regarding Russia. But he had I think a
[41:21] Speaker 2: very optimistic view that what if the superpowers came together
[41:24] Speaker 2: and combine technological forces to achieve great things unless we
[41:29] Speaker 2: destroy ourselves first. Will be remembered a thousand years from now.
[41:32] Speaker 2: The first close up explorations of dozens of other worlds together,
[41:37] Speaker 2: we found much out there that is magnificent, instructive, and
[41:41] Speaker 2: of practical value. But we found no trace, no hint
[41:44] Speaker 2: of life. The Earth is an anomaly in all the
[41:48] Speaker 2: Solar System. It is, as far as we know, the
[41:51] Speaker 2: only inhabited planet. We humans are one among millions of
[41:56] Speaker 2: separate species who live in a world burgeoning. We're flowing
[42:00] Speaker 2: with life, and yet most species that ever were are
[42:04] Speaker 2: no more. After flourishing for one hundred and fifty million years,
[42:08] Speaker 2: the dinosaurs became extinct, every last one. No species is
[42:13] Speaker 2: guaranteed its tenure on this planet, and humans, the first
[42:17] Speaker 2: beings to devise the means for their own destruction, have
[42:21] Speaker 2: been here for only several million years. We are rare
[42:25] Speaker 2: and precious because we are alive, because we can think,
[42:29] Speaker 2: we are privileged to influence and perhaps control our future.
[42:34] Speaker 2: We have an obligation to fight for life on Earth,
[42:36] Speaker 2: not just for ourselves, but for all those humans and
[42:40] Speaker 2: others who came before us, and to whom we are
[42:43] Speaker 2: beholden and for all those who, if we are wise enough,
[42:48] Speaker 2: will come after. There is no cause more urgent than
[42:52] Speaker 2: to survive, to eliminate on a global basis, the growing
[42:55] Speaker 2: threats of nuclear war, environmental catastrophe, can collapse, and mass starvation.
[43:03] Speaker 2: These problems were created by humans and can only be
[43:06] Speaker 2: solved by humans. Oh, Carl Sagan, he is greatly missed.
[43:14] Speaker 2: Let's see Ray at three zero one high. Are you there?
[43:19] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[43:19] Speaker 7: Here, Hi, Seth?
[43:20] Speaker 4: How are you?
[43:21] Speaker 2: I'm good? What's on your mind?
[43:22] Speaker 4: Heard? How you? I wanted to talk about a couple
[43:26] Speaker 4: of things, but mainly the thing on top of my
[43:28] Speaker 4: mind is blamed the current situation. I was talking to
[43:31] Speaker 4: a friend who's also a liberal more or less, and
[43:35] Speaker 4: he started talking about how the MS messed up because
[43:38] Speaker 4: they had elite's lips during the campaign and it turned
[43:42] Speaker 4: people off. And I was thinking, where does that come from?
[43:47] Speaker 4: And I remember that that was a right when talking
[43:49] Speaker 4: point from right when media all over the place, and
[43:52] Speaker 4: how it's really bs because you know, first of complain
[43:57] Speaker 4: about price as and then they don't care about the
[43:58] Speaker 4: price egg. You know, we're at a point where the
[44:02] Speaker 4: goalpost moves and the standards triple and there's just no
[44:07] Speaker 4: arguing with them to a large degree. My point is,
[44:11] Speaker 4: I get very frustrated what I hear right wing talking
[44:15] Speaker 4: points being used by the people who you're shocked by
[44:18] Speaker 4: all this to trying to sign blame. It's like it's
[44:20] Speaker 4: a sign that we've been overwhelmed by right wing messaging.
[44:24] Speaker 2: Now I wrote a blog about this. I'm going to
[44:26] Speaker 2: read it in fact here in just a second. You
[44:29] Speaker 2: and I have seen a lot of second and third
[44:31] Speaker 2: guessing after Trump one any one, not just the electoral vote,
[44:37] Speaker 2: but the popular vote, and the tendency in many cases
[44:40] Speaker 2: was to blame ourselves or to point fingers in our
[44:44] Speaker 2: own camp. And there were problems, right, I mean, it's
[44:49] Speaker 2: of course that we're going to be problems, things that
[44:51] Speaker 2: should have been done differently. But the truth is the
[44:54] Speaker 2: oligarchs went in and through Fox News and the Washington
[44:58] Speaker 2: Post and right wing talk radio and in the church
[45:04] Speaker 2: circuit and all these other places, people were mass targeted
[45:08] Speaker 2: with disinformation campaigns. They were sold fear and conspiracy. And
[45:14] Speaker 2: this was a long term, decades long, targeted effort to
[45:19] Speaker 2: essentially stage a coup. And I'm going to call it
[45:21] Speaker 2: a coup to present a hostile takeover by a minority
[45:26] Speaker 2: class of the United States government. So you have we
[45:30] Speaker 2: always done a good job of do we do a
[45:33] Speaker 2: good job of recognizing that it was a threat? Now
[45:37] Speaker 2: not as much, but the campaign itself, I don't think
[45:40] Speaker 2: we lost. And the right wing talking point that I
[45:43] Speaker 2: heard was, well, she wants to talk only about trans
[45:47] Speaker 2: people and bathrooms and that kind of thing. And if
[45:49] Speaker 2: you listen to any of her speeches, she wasn't talking
[45:52] Speaker 2: as much about that. She was talking about stuff that
[45:54] Speaker 2: affected everyday Americans, right right.
[45:58] Speaker 4: But they didn't nobody when they heard it. They didn't
[46:01] Speaker 4: hear it. So my thought is, whatever somebody starts bring
[46:04] Speaker 4: up right wing talking points to say that, I'm just
[46:06] Speaker 4: trying to analyze what we did. I think we should
[46:09] Speaker 4: remind them who's really to blame. Mitch McConnell was the
[46:12] Speaker 4: one guy who could have got the Republicans to convict
[46:15] Speaker 4: Trump during the second impeachment. Instead, he dragged it out
[46:19] Speaker 4: and he let him go. And that's my constitution could
[46:23] Speaker 4: have stopped him from running again. If they convicted him
[46:24] Speaker 4: and said, hey, you can't hold office again, that's where
[46:28] Speaker 4: the blame goes. That's what would have stopped our current
[46:32] Speaker 4: reality from happening. Maybe somebody else would have filled his shoes.
[46:36] Speaker 4: I doubt it. But that's whenever I hear somebody say
[46:39] Speaker 4: the stupid right wing talking points, I remind them, no,
[46:43] Speaker 4: the people who are causing it are to blame. The
[46:45] Speaker 4: Republicans are to blame. That's where you've got to push back.
[46:50] Speaker 2: I like it. Thanks for the call, Ray, I'm going
[46:53] Speaker 2: to segue over to this blog and increase the amount
[46:56] Speaker 2: of hate mail that I'm getting after this broadcast, and
[46:59] Speaker 2: I'm not going to get give him your phone number though.
[47:01] Speaker 2: I'll take the heat on this one. Okay, Ray, I'll
[47:03] Speaker 2: take it. I'm the target. Thanks, all right, be good
[47:06] Speaker 2: and we'll see you later. I wrote something that said
[47:10] Speaker 2: we didn't lose the election because quote Dems failed. On
[47:16] Speaker 2: January twenty fifth, twenty twenty five, my friend Gail Jordan
[47:20] Speaker 2: wrote a Facebook post that struck a nerve. She said this,
[47:24] Speaker 2: if I hear one more podcast or read one more
[47:27] Speaker 2: substack about the work Dems have to do on our messaging,
[47:30] Speaker 2: I'm gonna scream this thing that happened in this election
[47:34] Speaker 2: is not on us. There was nothing broken about our
[47:36] Speaker 2: messaging or our messenger say they were imperfect all you like.
[47:42] Speaker 2: He was pro union, pro LGBTQ plus, pro choice, pro
[47:46] Speaker 2: middle class, pro Ukraine. It was as strong and central
[47:50] Speaker 2: a Democratic Party message as we have had, and she
[47:53] Speaker 2: delivered it flawlessly. Half of this country fails in one
[47:58] Speaker 2: or more of these three buckets myths or uninformed, resentful, wealthy,
[48:03] Speaker 2: or power hungry. There is no message or candidate who
[48:07] Speaker 2: can speak to voters who have chosen to forego reality
[48:12] Speaker 2: and who want the narrative to be xyz and therefore
[48:15] Speaker 2: it is xyz. They're justifying Nazi salutes and defending violent felons.
[48:21] Speaker 2: What the hell messaging can break through that this will
[48:25] Speaker 2: end only when they themselves feel the pain of being played,
[48:29] Speaker 2: and the rest of us get to suffer along until
[48:32] Speaker 2: that happens. And I jumped in that she is absolutely correct.
[48:37] Speaker 2: Those expecting a perfect campaign apparently think humans can be gods.
[48:42] Speaker 2: But the lie that Kamala Harris, a terrific candidate, lost
[48:47] Speaker 2: because of fringe lib wocused on Americanism or whatever. That
[48:52] Speaker 2: message was carefully manicured and massively funded by the opposition
[48:57] Speaker 2: billionaires behind outlets like Fox News and ECTS, called and
[49:02] Speaker 2: weaponized entire media cultures, radical Christian lobby groups, and shadow
[49:08] Speaker 2: puppeteers like Leonard Leo schemed for decades unconstitutionally giving voter
[49:15] Speaker 2: guides to churchgoers as pastors spouted Christian nationalist sermons and
[49:20] Speaker 2: demonized Trump's opposition. Dear Leader allegiance was labeled patriotic duty,
[49:27] Speaker 2: especially for the often heavily armed target demographic people easily
[49:33] Speaker 2: activated by tribal symbols and xenophobic rhetoric. Religious tendencies toward
[49:39] Speaker 2: authoritarianism and holy war narratives further rallied the flock. All
[49:45] Speaker 2: it took was a performative prayer in the Bible in
[49:48] Speaker 2: my hand photo op to seal the deal. An epidemic
[49:52] Speaker 2: of American ignorance herded the many to blindly follow the few.
[49:57] Speaker 2: How can one expect on inform vote by those who
[50:01] Speaker 2: don't understand how the rest of the world works, from
[50:05] Speaker 2: vaccines to evolution, to climate science to tariffs. Note that
[50:09] Speaker 2: right now, twenty five percent of polled Americans don't know
[50:14] Speaker 2: that the Earth orbits the Sun. And finally, Harris was
[50:20] Speaker 2: very much a champion for inclusion, equality, fairness, and a
[50:24] Speaker 2: melting pot nation with a place for all, But her
[50:27] Speaker 2: campaign messaging led with reproductive rights, tax breaks for young families,
[50:33] Speaker 2: job creation, and other mainstream issues that would actually benefit
[50:38] Speaker 2: those who were not born with silver spoons, Fox News Newsmax,
[50:43] Speaker 2: Elon Musk, etc. Told their myopic masses that the radical
[50:48] Speaker 2: left Democratic Party loved border rapists, wanted the murder babies,
[50:54] Speaker 2: would have your kid's gender changed in home room New Only. Selfishism,
[51:01] Speaker 2: used DEI programs to persecute white people, sought laws to
[51:06] Speaker 2: make religion illegal, plan to strip every citizen of every firearm,
[51:12] Speaker 2: and hated America. Elon Musk himself posted atheism left in
[51:18] Speaker 2: empty space. Secular religion took its place, but left the
[51:23] Speaker 2: people in despair, childless hedonism sans care. Maybe religion's not
[51:30] Speaker 2: so bad to keep you from being sad our self
[51:35] Speaker 2: flagellation over the election loss takes focus away from the
[51:39] Speaker 2: power of the oligarchs, the Christian nationalism machine, history revisionists
[51:44] Speaker 2: and their platformers, and the overall sad state of indoctrinated, dismissive, lazy,
[51:50] Speaker 2: and or bigoted and cruel Americans. Introspection is always wise,
[51:57] Speaker 2: but Kamala lost because Trump was an easy mark for
[52:02] Speaker 2: empty promises and scary monologues about the traitorous and dangerous
[52:07] Speaker 2: others in my hearts. And I am in conflict about
[52:12] Speaker 2: this because people have children with no say, But I
[52:16] Speaker 2: will admit to wanting Trump cult to feel consequences for
[52:20] Speaker 2: what it has done. Already, magas are starting to realize
[52:25] Speaker 2: their healthcare policies are on the bubble. Critical immigrant workers
[52:29] Speaker 2: might disappear from their companies. Grocery prices might spike. Tech
[52:34] Speaker 2: bros care more about power and expensive toys than struggling citizens.
[52:40] Speaker 2: Chest Beating military conflicts might put American sons and daughters
[52:44] Speaker 2: on the front lines. Important public services might be less
[52:49] Speaker 2: available in emergencies, and the smoke in their nostrils might
[52:53] Speaker 2: be coming from their own burning houses if the rabid
[52:58] Speaker 2: gorilla they unleashed turns on them. My sympathy centers are
[53:03] Speaker 2: pretty much numb. I only hope these people haven't taken
[53:08] Speaker 2: the rest of us down with them. Anyway. That was
[53:12] Speaker 2: my two cents, And if you haven't subscribed to my
[53:17] Speaker 2: sub stack, it ain't much. But it's a forum where
[53:22] Speaker 2: I'm able to maybe share in print form what I
[53:25] Speaker 2: sometimes talk about on the air, and maybe you can
[53:28] Speaker 2: relate to some of it, and you know if you
[53:30] Speaker 2: want to share it. I've got links to all the
[53:32] Speaker 2: references that I made to the right wingers who were
[53:34] Speaker 2: saying and doing. I've got links to all those things
[53:37] Speaker 2: I did my fact checking. I brought receipts. I bring
[53:43] Speaker 2: the podcast, You bring the wisdom. We talk more with
[53:47] Speaker 2: our callers after this. Thank you so much for listening again.
[53:57] Speaker 2: This week, we aren't kind of doing a and terry
[54:00] Speaker 2: about the world around this next week, I'm going to
[54:03] Speaker 2: be speaking with author and investigative journalist Katherine Stewart, the
[54:07] Speaker 2: author of a new book called Money Lies in God.
[54:11] Speaker 2: She's done a deep dive into the money players, the
[54:14] Speaker 2: power players, the decades long effort to take over the government,
[54:20] Speaker 2: and her interview and book are going to blow your mind.
[54:23] Speaker 2: That's coming up next week. Alan in Virginia seven five
[54:30] Speaker 2: seven high Are you there?
[54:32] Speaker 4: Yes? Hi? How you doing?
[54:34] Speaker 2: I'm well? What's on your mind? Alan?
[54:36] Speaker 4: Well? I mean, you know, it's kind of strange how
[54:40] Speaker 4: this election has changed how we feel, like just recently
[54:43] Speaker 4: with our steps, you know, getting ready to graduate, kind
[54:47] Speaker 4: of confused like most tune to be graduated eighteen year
[54:50] Speaker 4: olds can be, and what to do now? Because I
[54:53] Speaker 4: ain't gonna lie. We considered, hey.
[54:55] Speaker 12: What about the military, but no, we don't want him
[54:58] Speaker 12: nowhere near it. Now, you know, these people in George,
[55:02] Speaker 12: it's just what do you do? You know, you relieve
[55:05] Speaker 12: he's smandling the partment of education a guy who's graduating
[55:09] Speaker 12: with then where do you go? Now?
[55:12] Speaker 2: You know? You know what I've heard a lot of
[55:14] Speaker 2: is well, we want to return the power to the states.
[55:18] Speaker 2: And I think one of the refutations to that is
[55:22] Speaker 2: is two plus two equal four in California, but two
[55:26] Speaker 2: plus two then equals five in Kentucky. Right, I mean
[55:31] Speaker 2: this idea that there are not standardized curriculum and even
[55:37] Speaker 2: science based studies of things being taught to our children
[55:41] Speaker 2: because each individual state, which might be managed by a
[55:44] Speaker 2: theocrat zealot like my own governor, or Greg Abbott in
[55:47] Speaker 2: Texas or wherever, right, they're going to insert Moses and
[55:51] Speaker 2: the Ten Commandments in religious mythology, Christian mythology into their
[55:55] Speaker 2: textbooks and teach them as history, science, geography, all that type.
[56:00] Speaker 2: I just think to myself, it's almost like the human
[56:03] Speaker 2: rights conversations we have about reproduction. Why is it immoral?
[56:07] Speaker 2: Is it illegal for a woman to have control over
[56:10] Speaker 2: her body on this side of the borderline, but when
[56:13] Speaker 2: she drives over here, now she can be put in prison.
[56:17] Speaker 2: And I just don't want to live in that world.
[56:18] Speaker 2: I think human rights are human rights. Education is education,
[56:22] Speaker 2: no matter where the borderline is drawn. And I'm terrified
[56:26] Speaker 2: of these sort of red state zealot theocrat politicians and
[56:31] Speaker 2: their constituents who are going to say two plus two
[56:34] Speaker 2: equals five and the rest of us are going to
[56:37] Speaker 2: have to deal with these people moving forward. Is they
[56:39] Speaker 2: help shape the world? I share your fears out and
[56:41] Speaker 2: I don't have a solution though, And.
[56:44] Speaker 12: See where I'm from is deeply a red county. However,
[56:49] Speaker 12: thank goodness that we have enough people up north and
[56:52] Speaker 12: Virginia that give these people what they need and they
[56:55] Speaker 12: even though they don't even see it. What's irritating to
[56:58] Speaker 12: me grew up in Colorado, and I know the education
[57:03] Speaker 12: that I got in public school to what these kids
[57:06] Speaker 12: got is so different. Right where I'm at, the county
[57:10] Speaker 12: i'm at is literally where the net turner uprising was,
[57:13] Speaker 12: And how many of these people don't know that and
[57:16] Speaker 12: I did in fifth grade in Colorado. It just blows
[57:19] Speaker 12: my mind, you know. And I hear I'm talking about
[57:23] Speaker 12: they need these Confederate that's us to do about the Confederacy.
[57:26] Speaker 12: I'm like, you don't even know about your own history.
[57:29] Speaker 12: That you has nothing to do with your history.
[57:32] Speaker 4: You know, it was what you were taught, and it's
[57:36] Speaker 4: just like this ignorant to not want to learn boggles me.
[57:40] Speaker 2: I think they want simple, and I think they want saviors,
[57:44] Speaker 2: and they want saviors that look like them. I think
[57:47] Speaker 2: they want a world that looks like them and you
[57:49] Speaker 2: and I want a world that looks like all of us.
[57:51] Speaker 2: I don't think it's all that complicated, but apparently for
[57:54] Speaker 2: some people it is. I share your fears, man, I
[57:56] Speaker 2: share your fears. So is your steps un graduated or
[58:01] Speaker 2: is that happening in May or June? Is that coming up?
[58:04] Speaker 4: Yeah? That's coming up? And excitement and fear.
[58:09] Speaker 2: Do you remember back when you and I were seniors
[58:12] Speaker 2: approaching the final months. I don't know about you, but
[58:14] Speaker 2: I was so ready to bust out, like I am done.
[58:17] Speaker 2: It's been twelve years. Give me the test, give me
[58:20] Speaker 2: the finals, let me just let me break free. Do
[58:23] Speaker 2: you remember that feeling of liberation just over the horizon.
[58:27] Speaker 10: Oh?
[58:27] Speaker 2: Absolutely?
[58:28] Speaker 12: At that point in fact, I was already signed up,
[58:31] Speaker 12: Rey go, and I went to the military. I joined
[58:34] Speaker 12: the Navy, and I wouldn't take back that Tom I served,
[58:38] Speaker 12: and I wish he had.
[58:40] Speaker 4: That same option. You know, Ah, I don't know.
[58:45] Speaker 2: Maybe some of the other nations on Earth that developed countries,
[58:49] Speaker 2: you know, maybe Japan can help teach us stuff whenever
[58:52] Speaker 2: we've dumbed everything down all the way down to the bottom.
[58:55] Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll see what happens. I don't know.
[58:57] Speaker 2: You and I can carpool do a place where they're
[59:00] Speaker 2: teaching actual science and history. Maybe we can support it
[59:05] Speaker 2: in that way. Alan, Well, congrats to your step son.
[59:08] Speaker 2: Thanks for the call.
[59:10] Speaker 4: All right, Well, thank you very much, and enjoy your
[59:13] Speaker 4: show and keep going on and keep watching.
[59:16] Speaker 2: Keep going if you will, take care, Alan, see you later,
[59:19] Speaker 2: all right, thank you, bye bye. There was an HBO
[59:23] Speaker 2: documentary that came out years ago and it was called
[59:28] Speaker 2: Doubting No, it was called Questioning Darwin, and they sat
[59:34] Speaker 2: down with a pastor I don't remember his name, and
[59:38] Speaker 2: he admitted that if God told him two plus two
[59:41] Speaker 2: equaled five, he would accept that wholesale and trust that
[59:47] Speaker 2: God figured it out somewhere else.
[59:50] Speaker 13: If somewhere within the Bible. I were to find a
[59:52] Speaker 13: passage that said two plus two equals five, I wouldn't
[59:58] Speaker 13: question what I'm reading the Bible.
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: I would believe it.
[1:00:02] Speaker 13: Accept it as true, and then do my best to
[1:00:04] Speaker 13: work it out and to understand it.
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: God's got a reasoning somewhere where it does make sense,
[1:00:10] Speaker 2: and two plus two equals five, perfectly willing and happy
[1:00:15] Speaker 2: to suspend reality as a matter of faith. What do
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: you do with that? What happens when he starts teaching
[1:00:24] Speaker 2: children in the Sunday schools of his church? Hey, kids,
[1:00:28] Speaker 2: if God says two plus two is five, right, and
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: then they go out as minnows. They grow up into
[1:00:34] Speaker 2: the world unprepared for the world. They are not the
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: duplus two is five is four. Oh God, I almost
[1:00:42] Speaker 2: got indoctrinated myself. Someone purge, purge all that from me.
[1:00:46] Speaker 2: I literally went back into the religious bubble. My fault,
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: my fault. I must be I must be liberated many
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: at five one four. You've been very kind to wait
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: on me. Are you there?
[1:01:00] Speaker 3: How are you?
[1:01:02] Speaker 8: I'm in Canada, I'm in I'm in Quebec, and uh,
[1:01:06] Speaker 8: I'm just keeping track of I'm like I feel like
[1:01:09] Speaker 8: I'm like part of what's going on in your country,
[1:01:13] Speaker 8: and and I just have a lot of compassion for
[1:01:17] Speaker 8: what happened, Like I just that old that little talk
[1:01:20] Speaker 8: I just wanted to wait in a little bit about
[1:01:22] Speaker 8: Kamala Harris liked what Heather Cox Richardson said that she
[1:01:26] Speaker 8: ran a campaign that was so old timey inclusive that
[1:01:31] Speaker 8: she was using the choice of Tim Walls, she says,
[1:01:34] Speaker 8: with an excellent choice because even though he's a Democrat,
[1:01:38] Speaker 8: the Republicans would be really related to him because he
[1:01:43] Speaker 8: had a lot of Republican values. He was out there
[1:01:46] Speaker 8: farming and doing things on your own. And the old
[1:01:48] Speaker 8: conservative she was, she was going for an old conservative deal,
[1:01:52] Speaker 8: and she felt Heather Cox Richardson felt that that was genius,
[1:01:57] Speaker 8: that she just was trying to bring every body in,
[1:02:00] Speaker 8: like forget about the two parties, just say whatever we
[1:02:04] Speaker 8: can save. And I thought, wasn't that. I just thought
[1:02:08] Speaker 8: it was original ver as I just wanted to blame
[1:02:11] Speaker 8: on that can blame the Democrats thing, because I also
[1:02:15] Speaker 8: think that bs. But I also love talking about conversation
[1:02:20] Speaker 8: and how the more these people with their you know,
[1:02:23] Speaker 8: you say the brick wall mines, the more they insist
[1:02:28] Speaker 8: on the black is white and up those down and
[1:02:31] Speaker 8: word salad like Harry even said, somebody said that Kamala
[1:02:34] Speaker 8: Harris said words about I'm like, are you listening? Like
[1:02:38] Speaker 8: where are your like? Never mind what you're reading or
[1:02:41] Speaker 8: the Bible or whatever. You can't even hear somebody saying
[1:02:44] Speaker 8: something rational to you. And then this whole they appropriate
[1:02:48] Speaker 8: the language. I do a lot of checking, you know,
[1:02:51] Speaker 8: when I'm having conversation with somebody, I'm always making sure
[1:02:54] Speaker 8: that I say the stick to the facts because of
[1:02:58] Speaker 8: how dangerous. I see what how's dangerous that is?
[1:03:01] Speaker 4: I want to put that out there for you.
[1:03:03] Speaker 8: What do you think?
[1:03:04] Speaker 4: So you in on the love?
[1:03:07] Speaker 2: No, no, no, you're absolutely right. Look let's call it
[1:03:09] Speaker 2: what it is. And how about you and I agree
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: many I convinced one of the reasons that there was
[1:03:15] Speaker 2: such resistance to Kamala Harris is that she was not
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: white and she was not male. I think it's racism
[1:03:21] Speaker 2: and sexism infecting many of the narratives, the propaganda mills
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: that were turning people against her. They wouldn't say that.
[1:03:27] Speaker 2: They're the same types of people who say, well, you know,
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: I'm not a racist, but and then they say something
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: that's racist. I think there's a ton of that. I
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: don't know, racism, sexism. Many do you think we're you
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: think that's close?
[1:03:39] Speaker 8: Oh yeah, Like as somebody who as a moderator, and
[1:03:43] Speaker 8: there are a lot of people who are support Trump thing,
[1:03:46] Speaker 8: I feel like I'm in danger every time I try
[1:03:49] Speaker 8: to bring in reality. This is so scary for these people.
[1:03:54] Speaker 8: They are like I think they're putting their fingers in
[1:03:56] Speaker 8: their ears, and you know, like the van Cova and
[1:03:58] Speaker 8: goes La La. I'm talking and there's one lady that
[1:04:04] Speaker 8: very educated person and has all the ingredients of being
[1:04:08] Speaker 8: able to have a conversation, and that she uses bad
[1:04:11] Speaker 8: against me. She's like like she's always saying, oh, you
[1:04:15] Speaker 8: don't know how to have a conversation. And one time
[1:04:18] Speaker 8: I was doing my fact checking while she was talking
[1:04:20] Speaker 8: about the La flyers, right, and I was fascinated by
[1:04:24] Speaker 8: she asked me about the red powder. So I went
[1:04:27] Speaker 8: and there's all this info about the red powder that
[1:04:30] Speaker 8: is the deterrent, the flame deterrent, and how California has
[1:04:34] Speaker 8: made it safer. It was not as safe. It had
[1:04:37] Speaker 8: chemicals that would poison the earth, so they would have
[1:04:40] Speaker 8: to deal on top of the horrible flame debris. What
[1:04:44] Speaker 8: had happened with the retardant? I'm sorry, he's in the
[1:04:47] Speaker 8: wrong word. So I was reading this to her. She
[1:04:50] Speaker 8: hung up on me. She comes back and she goes,
[1:04:54] Speaker 8: I don't want to be read to, I want to
[1:04:57] Speaker 8: have a conversation. And I'm like, wow, I'm like I
[1:05:03] Speaker 8: feel so I relate very strongly to you, like forget it.
[1:05:07] Speaker 8: But let's just forget it. Like my grandma said, you know,
[1:05:10] Speaker 8: she's I need too, and she's still and she didn't
[1:05:13] Speaker 8: want to ask her if she wanted to cook again.
[1:05:15] Speaker 8: She said, forget it. I don't want to cook again.
[1:05:18] Speaker 8: For me, I'm saying, forget it. No more conversations. Let's
[1:05:22] Speaker 8: just strengthen each other and not let ourselves be pulled in.
[1:05:26] Speaker 8: Like you said, it's the vortex of what.
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: No now you feel like it is a brick wall
[1:05:35] Speaker 2: brain one of the other things. Don't let me beat
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: the dead horse here. Many but one thing about people
[1:05:41] Speaker 2: primed into religious thinking and accepting mythology as fact is
[1:05:45] Speaker 2: I'm convinced they are much more easy targets for conspiracy theories.
[1:05:49] Speaker 2: So if you have come to believe that there's magical
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: things all around us and spirits and you know, demons
[1:05:56] Speaker 2: under every rock, and there's a holy war going on,
[1:05:59] Speaker 2: you know, the powers of good and evil. Then I
[1:06:02] Speaker 2: think if somebody comes along and spins a yarn about
[1:06:06] Speaker 2: something that's just out there crazy, be it the deep
[1:06:09] Speaker 2: State or trafficking children out of the basements of pizza
[1:06:13] Speaker 2: parlors in Washington, d C. Or Jewish space lasers or whatever,
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: there are people who are They're so primed to believe
[1:06:21] Speaker 2: the unbelievable that they become easy marks for conspiracy theories.
[1:06:25] Speaker 2: And that explains I think a lot of why people
[1:06:28] Speaker 2: jump on those bandwagons. I don't know, at what are
[1:06:32] Speaker 2: we going to do? Go home, Let's keep fighting, Okay, Minnie.
[1:06:34] Speaker 8: Well, I think we have to give up hope on
[1:06:38] Speaker 8: those people and let them go, and just our hope
[1:06:41] Speaker 8: has to do with us and how we can build
[1:06:43] Speaker 8: ourselves up. And it's possible. That's my hope. I think
[1:06:48] Speaker 8: because I've now I'm because of all the various marginalizations
[1:06:53] Speaker 8: that I've embraced lovingly, I don't have any nice people
[1:06:58] Speaker 8: in my Actually, Americans are the only people that give
[1:07:02] Speaker 8: me that feeling that it's going to be okay. Even
[1:07:04] Speaker 8: the people who are blocked off.
[1:07:07] Speaker 4: I just don't.
[1:07:10] Speaker 8: I don't feel hope for them, but I feel like
[1:07:12] Speaker 8: every every little thing is it has to do with
[1:07:16] Speaker 8: talking with you, guys. I think you're one of the people.
[1:07:18] Speaker 8: So thank you so much for your for your talk today.
[1:07:22] Speaker 8: I appreciate it.
[1:07:23] Speaker 2: Maybe mar of a rant many of but I so
[1:07:26] Speaker 2: appreciate you, and thanks for calling. Be safe, Okay, no,
[1:07:30] Speaker 2: I'd see you bye. I mean the people who believe
[1:07:33] Speaker 2: that we are descendants of a dirt man and a
[1:07:36] Speaker 2: rib woman in an enchanted garden with talking reptiles. Those
[1:07:40] Speaker 2: people are easy marks for a lot of bullshit. I
[1:07:44] Speaker 2: think fear has been weaponing and people are afraid. How
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: do people who say that no weapon formed against me
[1:07:50] Speaker 2: shall prosper. Every hair on my head has been numbered,
[1:07:54] Speaker 2: the great Protector has my back, the devil has no
[1:07:58] Speaker 2: dominion over me in the world. Are those people so
[1:08:01] Speaker 2: motivated by fear? Em They're afraid of everything? Terrified, demographic
[1:08:10] Speaker 2: And of course then the media goes in and stokes
[1:08:13] Speaker 2: that tweaks, that ramps it up, activates them. This is strategy.
[1:08:19] Speaker 2: Anyone else feel like the United States is right now?
[1:08:22] Speaker 2: Nineteen thirties Germany. I don't think it's hyperbole. I know.
[1:08:26] Speaker 2: I know someone's going to say, God, Whin's law. I
[1:08:29] Speaker 2: just don't think it's Hyperbally, you take people, you make
[1:08:33] Speaker 2: them afraid of the other, You call the other vermin.
[1:08:36] Speaker 2: You say we are going to restore national greatness. All
[1:08:40] Speaker 2: you must do is put your trust in me. You
[1:08:43] Speaker 2: use a democratic system to achieve power. Then you use
[1:08:47] Speaker 2: that power to dismantle democracy, and you rule absolutely, and
[1:08:53] Speaker 2: you destroy as much as you want and as many
[1:08:56] Speaker 2: people as you want. I just feel like it's nineteen thirties.
[1:08:59] Speaker 2: Two ceremony Abby in my hometown looks like a nine
[1:09:04] Speaker 2: one eight, Abbey, are you there?
[1:09:06] Speaker 4: Yeah?
[1:09:07] Speaker 2: Well you hear me? Are you a fellow Oki?
[1:09:10] Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm pretty close to the area.
[1:09:12] Speaker 10: You okay?
[1:09:12] Speaker 2: Cool? Well what's on your mind? Abby? What do you
[1:09:14] Speaker 2: want to talk about?
[1:09:15] Speaker 6: So and forgive me for someone over my words here,
[1:09:19] Speaker 6: but one thing I wanted to talk about is how
[1:09:22] Speaker 6: it feels like for a lot of people, truth isn't
[1:09:27] Speaker 6: important to them, and it's been like that for the
[1:09:30] Speaker 6: last eight years. It's just getting worse and worse. You know,
[1:09:36] Speaker 6: people just like on Facebook reposting stuff that's obviously not true,
[1:09:42] Speaker 6: where it's like you know, you can google it and
[1:09:44] Speaker 6: be like, well, that's that's just silly, you know. It's
[1:09:46] Speaker 6: like you don't even need to google it to know
[1:09:48] Speaker 6: that it's silly. And like one example, I don't know
[1:09:54] Speaker 6: if people remember this from a couple of months ago,
[1:09:58] Speaker 6: but that trend that people started and like saying that
[1:10:01] Speaker 6: like kids in public schools were using kitty litter as restaurants.
[1:10:05] Speaker 6: I don't know if anybody remembers I do that particular.
[1:10:08] Speaker 2: No, they were saying that kids are dressing up as
[1:10:10] Speaker 2: cats and going in and instead of using the toilets,
[1:10:13] Speaker 2: they're using cat litter. It's crazy.
[1:10:15] Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And it's like clearly any grown adult is
[1:10:20] Speaker 6: like that's that's obviously that's not happening.
[1:10:24] Speaker 10: But yet I've.
[1:10:26] Speaker 6: Had people try to tell me to my face that
[1:10:28] Speaker 6: that was true, and I'm just like.
[1:10:31] Speaker 2: No, please, And then you fear for the species. Right
[1:10:35] Speaker 2: then you think maybe the dinosaurs need to come back
[1:10:38] Speaker 2: and be the dominant species.
[1:10:41] Speaker 13: Right.
[1:10:42] Speaker 6: I feel like they're probably doing better than we are sometimes,
[1:10:46] Speaker 6: but it's terrifying, and it's happening on such a large
[1:10:50] Speaker 6: scale where adults are just eating this stuff up because
[1:10:56] Speaker 6: they want to other a group, you know, they want
[1:10:58] Speaker 6: to be like these people are this or that and
[1:11:03] Speaker 6: oh like another example was like about you know, hate
[1:11:07] Speaker 6: being more important than anything else to some people. Is like,
[1:11:11] Speaker 6: you know, I've had I'm a queer person, and you know,
[1:11:14] Speaker 6: I've had other people who are queer just random like
[1:11:17] Speaker 6: and Christians randomly to start, because you know, you'll be
[1:11:20] Speaker 6: in hospitality and people are kind of holding your hostage,
[1:11:24] Speaker 6: you know, and you have to be polite and smile,
[1:11:26] Speaker 6: and other queer people just starting to hate on trans
[1:11:31] Speaker 6: people for no reason, and it's like why why.
[1:11:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, and these people their vote counts just as much
[1:11:40] Speaker 2: as ours does. They have equals say, And I realized
[1:11:44] Speaker 2: that on the surface that sounds superior. And I don't
[1:11:47] Speaker 2: mean it that way, but when someone is informed about
[1:11:51] Speaker 2: the world and someone else over here has batshit crazy
[1:11:54] Speaker 2: ideas about the world and they have equal influence at
[1:11:57] Speaker 2: the voting box, it does make make me pause and think,
[1:12:01] Speaker 2: is there is some sort of a test people can
[1:12:04] Speaker 2: take to qualify, you know, is there some sort of
[1:12:07] Speaker 2: a measuring stick that we can use whether or not
[1:12:10] Speaker 2: you're informed about what you're voting about. I had somebody
[1:12:13] Speaker 2: I'm just vamping here abby. They told me they said, well,
[1:12:17] Speaker 2: I didn't know what half the stuff was on the ballot,
[1:12:20] Speaker 2: so I just looked for the names that I didn't like,
[1:12:23] Speaker 2: and I voted no like the names that audibly sounded wrong.
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: I'm think I don't like the sound of that. And
[1:12:29] Speaker 2: they just went through. These people are determining who the
[1:12:32] Speaker 2: judges are, and they're determining all these I just think
[1:12:36] Speaker 2: their vote counted just as much as mine.
[1:12:38] Speaker 6: And I guess what I'm trying to get at with
[1:12:40] Speaker 6: this call is that it's so disheartening and it makes
[1:12:44] Speaker 6: me so sad that for a lot of people, they
[1:12:48] Speaker 6: don't care about the facts and the truth anymore. It's
[1:12:52] Speaker 6: about what's entertaining, what's funny. What they think is like, oh,
[1:12:56] Speaker 6: this is real crazy, So I'm going to repeat it
[1:12:58] Speaker 6: just because it's entertaining. And it's like, and we know
[1:13:01] Speaker 6: this stuff. You know, we know the kids aren't getting
[1:13:04] Speaker 6: transd in school. You know, we know kids aren't peeing
[1:13:07] Speaker 6: in litter boxes at school, So why are people And
[1:13:12] Speaker 6: that's what's upsetting to me, and that there's just this
[1:13:15] Speaker 6: And it seems that it's a lot of it is
[1:13:17] Speaker 6: right wing Republicans and Christians. It seems like there's a
[1:13:21] Speaker 6: lot of overlap between those groups and people just repeating
[1:13:25] Speaker 6: stuff that's not true.
[1:13:27] Speaker 2: Just because you are correct, you speak wisdom. You give
[1:13:32] Speaker 2: me hope that somebody's thinking out there, and I'm sure
[1:13:35] Speaker 2: many who are listening and watching feel the same, Abby,
[1:13:37] Speaker 2: You are not alone. Anything else.
[1:13:41] Speaker 6: No, that was basically I just had to express somewhere
[1:13:44] Speaker 6: that it's very upsetting that there are people who care
[1:13:47] Speaker 6: more about being entertained at potentially the cost of our democracy,
[1:13:52] Speaker 6: you know, because these people are letting that stuff influence
[1:13:54] Speaker 6: how they vote, and it's very upsetting. But like you said,
[1:13:58] Speaker 6: that their votes count just as much of ours, and
[1:14:00] Speaker 6: they're voting based on very silly at best and disturbing
[1:14:05] Speaker 6: at worst kinds of criteria.
[1:14:08] Speaker 2: Well, I got nothing else. I'm just sitting here. It's
[1:14:12] Speaker 2: a dark cloud, yeaming, but I'm going to try to
[1:14:14] Speaker 2: step out from an under it for a while today.
[1:14:17] Speaker 2: Maybe play a PC game, pet a dog, eat some nachos,
[1:14:22] Speaker 2: let's go find let's miss let's self medicate together. Okay, Abby, Right.
[1:14:27] Speaker 6: All right, Well thanks for letting me get that out.
[1:14:30] Speaker 2: You did good. We'll see you later. Oh we ain't
[1:14:35] Speaker 2: done yet. We will continue our broadcast in just a moment.
[1:14:45] Speaker 2: You haven't checked out my second podcast, True Stories with
[1:14:49] Speaker 2: Seth Andrews five to eight or nine minute vinnettes, releasing
[1:14:55] Speaker 2: three times a week, and it can be anything weird, history,
[1:14:59] Speaker 2: true crime, I'm funny, news stories, stuff that will amaze
[1:15:03] Speaker 2: and confound you. True Stories with Seth Andrews on all
[1:15:08] Speaker 2: major podcast apps, or visit the website True Stories podcast
[1:15:12] Speaker 2: dot com two two five. I can't make out the name.
[1:15:19] Speaker 2: Is it Mariyama? Yes, Hi, welcome. What's on your mind?
[1:15:25] Speaker 10: Oh my god? Okay, sorry, I can't believe you answer.
[1:15:31] Speaker 2: I take your time. You're doing fun.
[1:15:33] Speaker 10: Hi. I really like your shelfil I think you're so cool,
[1:15:36] Speaker 10: and I think you really put to words what a
[1:15:41] Speaker 10: lot of people feel. But we can't really articulate as
[1:15:44] Speaker 10: well as you do. So it's nice to have somebody
[1:15:48] Speaker 10: who's out there in the world saying what you said.
[1:15:51] Speaker 10: But anyway, thank you.
[1:15:55] Speaker 4: I don't know.
[1:15:55] Speaker 2: I was told my spiritual gift was the gift of
[1:15:58] Speaker 2: the gab. I'm not really sure how to receive that,
[1:16:01] Speaker 2: but I'm going to take it as a compliment, So
[1:16:04] Speaker 2: go ahead, Maryamo.
[1:16:05] Speaker 10: But I'll show you people who talk too much like
[1:16:09] Speaker 10: not in an offensive way. I just love people who
[1:16:12] Speaker 10: are just ty to boxes because I don't talk at all,
[1:16:14] Speaker 10: and people always tell me why are you so quiet?
[1:16:17] Speaker 2: But anyway, hang on, hang on, Mary. When someone tells
[1:16:22] Speaker 2: you you're too quiet, I want you to look them
[1:16:24] Speaker 2: in the eye and say, you know what, deep waters
[1:16:28] Speaker 2: run silently. It'll blow their mind, right, shallow waters there
[1:16:33] Speaker 2: were there the loud ones. Deep waters are the silent waters.
[1:16:37] Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I own it, Mariyama, go ahead, go ahead.
[1:16:42] Speaker 10: I'm not going to remember that, but thank you. You
[1:16:45] Speaker 10: worked in Christian radio, right I did? Okay, did you
[1:16:50] Speaker 10: ever hear any songs that were like bizarre or odd?
[1:16:54] Speaker 10: Because when I was younger, I don't know why it
[1:16:57] Speaker 10: happened like three times, but I would hear a song
[1:17:01] Speaker 10: and it would have some weird lyrics and I would
[1:17:03] Speaker 10: tell the people around me and they would think I
[1:17:06] Speaker 10: was lying about it. Like for instance, there's a song
[1:17:09] Speaker 10: called Shine by Newsboys, and one of the lines and
[1:17:12] Speaker 10: the song was the whole song was about like what
[1:17:16] Speaker 10: you're like shine before men, and it was talking about
[1:17:19] Speaker 10: how people will do strange things because of the light
[1:17:22] Speaker 10: of the Lord changing them and transforming them. And one
[1:17:25] Speaker 10: of the lines said it'll make a vegan barbecue hamster.
[1:17:30] Speaker 10: And I remember I was like, why would they say that?
[1:17:33] Speaker 10: And I told the people around me and they were like,
[1:17:35] Speaker 10: it's Newsboys. They wouldn't say something like that. You must
[1:17:39] Speaker 10: have heard it wrong. And I was like, no, that
[1:17:41] Speaker 10: is the lyric. And then Newsboys put out a song
[1:17:44] Speaker 10: called I think it was the Breakfast Song. The whole
[1:17:47] Speaker 10: song was weird. It was like Captain Crunch is waving
[1:17:52] Speaker 10: wait when the milk has turned and the toast is burned,
[1:17:57] Speaker 10: Captain Crunch is waving farewell when Duke one finds you
[1:18:01] Speaker 10: at this song, remind you that they don't serve breakfast
[1:18:04] Speaker 10: in Hell. I was like, what is this have to
[1:18:06] Speaker 10: do with the Bible or God?
[1:18:08] Speaker 4: What?
[1:18:08] Speaker 10: It was just so weird, and I wondered, have you
[1:18:11] Speaker 10: did anything stand out to you when you were like
[1:18:14] Speaker 10: on playing songs on radio, like what is this?
[1:18:18] Speaker 2: Oh? We had so many cornball lyrics, and some we
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: knew were corny, and some we thought, wow, that's really
[1:18:26] Speaker 2: cute and clever. There was an artist named Carmen and
[1:18:30] Speaker 2: he used to do all these spoken words songs, and
[1:18:33] Speaker 2: one of them was about Jesus and the devil in
[1:18:36] Speaker 2: a boxing ring and there was like a bell and
[1:18:40] Speaker 2: rocky music and you know, and they were punching each
[1:18:44] Speaker 2: other and Jesus of course knocks the devil out and
[1:18:47] Speaker 2: the devil falls down to the canvas. And when I
[1:18:49] Speaker 2: was a kid, we're like, yeah, man, Jesus beats the devil.
[1:18:54] Speaker 2: There was a Rich Mullen song which said faith without
[1:18:58] Speaker 2: works is like a screen door on a submarine. We're like, oh, yes,
[1:19:03] Speaker 2: that is so deep, so deep. I couldn't tell you
[1:19:05] Speaker 2: today what that's supposed to mean. You know how faith
[1:19:08] Speaker 2: of that works is like a screen door on a submarine.
[1:19:11] Speaker 2: We had a whole bunch of that kind of stuff
[1:19:13] Speaker 2: that blew our mind. There was a guy named Tony Okay.
[1:19:17] Speaker 2: He wrote a song called I Handle Snakes. It was
[1:19:19] Speaker 2: just a bizarre tune that we couldn't make sense of,
[1:19:22] Speaker 2: but we played it anyway. So yes, yes, I do
[1:19:25] Speaker 2: know examples of what you're talking about.
[1:19:28] Speaker 10: Oh wow. And I heard of Carmen because when I
[1:19:31] Speaker 10: was in like high school, they would play all these
[1:19:34] Speaker 10: like not well, they were documentaries, but they were so
[1:19:37] Speaker 10: old not okay, sorry, not old. They were from like
[1:19:40] Speaker 10: the eighties, and they had musicians from the eighties and nineties,
[1:19:45] Speaker 10: and it was meant to show us how rock and
[1:19:48] Speaker 10: roll was the devil. And that documentary changed my life,
[1:19:54] Speaker 10: but not in the way that they wanted, because ever
[1:19:56] Speaker 10: since then I found all these bands that I loved,
[1:20:00] Speaker 10: and one of them was Nine Inch Nails, And I
[1:20:03] Speaker 10: felt so bad at the time because I was like, wow,
[1:20:05] Speaker 10: I really missed the point. I felt so guilty. But
[1:20:08] Speaker 10: at the same time, I felt like, y'all are not
[1:20:11] Speaker 10: doing what you think you're doing when you demonize like
[1:20:14] Speaker 10: pop music and stuff, at least not from what I
[1:20:18] Speaker 10: could see. And Carman my mom, she grew up with
[1:20:22] Speaker 10: Carmen and she would tell me about how corny was
[1:20:26] Speaker 10: and I was like, I didn't know that. I thought
[1:20:28] Speaker 10: it was a joke that everybody was in on, but
[1:20:31] Speaker 10: I only saw it through the context of the documentary.
[1:20:35] Speaker 10: But anyway, I don't want to take up any more
[1:20:38] Speaker 10: of your time. Thank you for taking my call.
[1:20:40] Speaker 2: You did so well. For somebody who says that they
[1:20:43] Speaker 2: don't speak much and they're shy, you were a great
[1:20:45] Speaker 2: communicator and I appreciate your kind words of encouragement to me.
[1:20:49] Speaker 2: So we make each other's day, okay.
[1:20:52] Speaker 10: Thank you all.
[1:20:53] Speaker 2: Right, We'll see you later. I pulled that song up.
[1:20:56] Speaker 2: The Newsboys, a popular Christian group. Hold the milk, put
[1:21:01] Speaker 2: back the sugar. They are powerless to console. We're gathered
[1:21:05] Speaker 2: here to sprinkle ashes from our late friend's cereal bowl.
[1:21:10] Speaker 2: Breakfast clubbers say the motto that he taught us to repeat.
[1:21:14] Speaker 2: You will lose it in your gym class if you
[1:21:17] Speaker 2: wait till noon to eat back. When the chess club
[1:21:21] Speaker 2: said our eggs were soft every Monday, he'd say grace
[1:21:24] Speaker 2: and hold our juice. Aloft Oh. None of us knew
[1:21:27] Speaker 2: his checkout time would come so soon, But before his
[1:21:31] Speaker 2: brain stopped waving, he composed this tune. When the toast
[1:21:35] Speaker 2: has burned and all the milk has turned, and Captain
[1:21:38] Speaker 2: Crunch is waving farewell. When the big One finds you,
[1:21:42] Speaker 2: may this song remind you that they don't serve breakfast
[1:21:47] Speaker 2: in hell and say it together.
[1:21:52] Speaker 6: What the fuck.
[1:21:56] Speaker 2: That's all I got. I'm gonna have to end there.
[1:21:59] Speaker 2: I can't do any better than they don't serve breakfast
[1:22:03] Speaker 2: in hell. You are seen, you are heard, you are understood.
[1:22:12] Speaker 2: The chaos around us continues, but you and I are
[1:22:16] Speaker 2: feeling many of the same things. We are thinking many
[1:22:18] Speaker 2: of the same things, doing many of the same things.
[1:22:21] Speaker 2: Let us join together to do more, to do as
[1:22:24] Speaker 2: much as we can, try to stop the insanity and
[1:22:27] Speaker 2: the cruelty, and build the better world. Be safe. I'll
[1:22:30] Speaker 2: see you next time.
[1:22:31] Speaker 1: Follow the Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a
[1:22:35] Speaker 1: complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and
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[1:22:46] Speaker 1: and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist dot com.

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