# Targeted: Discrimination in the U.S. Military

An episode of [TheThinkingAtheist](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/412308695), 17 Jun 2025, 1 h 03 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/mgln.ai/e/711/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/66551559/podcast810_militarydiscrimination.mp3

Fueled by Trumpian rhetoric, American "patriots" often invoke the name of God as they seek to prohibit others from serving in the armed forces. NOTE: Due to a technical oversight (my error), this week's audio is a bit overmodulated. It'll be corrected for next week. Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/thethinkingatheist--3270347/support.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: We understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's
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[0:10] Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through.
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[0:24] Speaker 1: Wish and working together for a more rational world.
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[0:32] Speaker 2: Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way.
[0:35] Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
[0:43] Speaker 1: Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
[0:57] Speaker 2: In this country, until the year nineteen ninety three, military
[1:01] Speaker 2: policy strictly forbade non heterosexuals from serving in the armed
[1:07] Speaker 2: forces nineteen ninety three, which is pretty much yesterday in
[1:14] Speaker 2: this country's history, and then in ninety three the don't ask,
[1:19] Speaker 2: don't tell policy was implemented. Now, this only restricted non
[1:24] Speaker 2: heterosexuals from serving if they were open about their sexuality
[1:30] Speaker 2: and sexual identity. So the vibe was hush, hush, keep
[1:35] Speaker 2: it under your hat. Sure, it's nobody's business, but if
[1:40] Speaker 2: you are in some way public, especially if you're public
[1:44] Speaker 2: about maybe I don't know a relationship or you're expressing
[1:47] Speaker 2: yourself and what we consider to be a provocative way,
[1:51] Speaker 2: then you can be investigated by military superiors. Don't Ask,
[1:57] Speaker 2: Don't Tell was repealed in twenty eleven, allowing homosexuals and
[2:03] Speaker 2: bisexuals to openly serve in the United States. In twenty thirteen,
[2:09] Speaker 2: in the Supreme Court decision United States versus Windsor, the
[2:13] Speaker 2: military was required to offer similar benefits to homosexual relationships
[2:19] Speaker 2: as they did to heterosexual ones, fully equal treatment legally
[2:25] Speaker 2: to their partners and families. From nineteen sixty to twenty sixteen,
[2:30] Speaker 2: there was a blanket ban on all transgender people from
[2:35] Speaker 2: enlisting and serving in the military that was struck on
[2:38] Speaker 2: the first of January twenty eighteen. Transgender individuals were allowed
[2:44] Speaker 2: to serve in their identified or assigned gender upon completing transition.
[2:51] Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen, the first openly gay head of any
[2:56] Speaker 2: service in the military was a guy named Eric Fanning.
[3:00] Speaker 2: He became the twenty second Secretary of the Army in
[3:05] Speaker 2: San Francisco. On the sixteenth of August twenty sixteen, the
[3:08] Speaker 2: USNS Harvey Milk was officially named a Navy ship, which
[3:14] Speaker 2: was christened at a ceremony in San Francisco. Harvey Milk,
[3:19] Speaker 2: the openly gay civil rights leader, had served as a
[3:23] Speaker 2: diving officer in the Navy from nineteen fifty one to
[3:26] Speaker 2: nineteen fifty five. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is having that
[3:31] Speaker 2: ship renamed. He says, we are not interested in naming
[3:34] Speaker 2: ships after activists, despite the fact that Harvey Milk was
[3:39] Speaker 2: a Navy lieutenant who served during the Korean War and
[3:44] Speaker 2: became the first to openly gay man elected to public
[3:47] Speaker 2: office in California before he was assassinated one year later.
[3:52] Speaker 2: This guy was awarded posthumously the Presidential Medal of Freedom
[3:56] Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine, and yet Pete Hegseth said, no,
[4:01] Speaker 2: I want you to strike Harvey Milk from that ship
[4:04] Speaker 2: and we will name it something else. Other ships targeted
[4:09] Speaker 2: in the same way, including the John Lewis class vessels,
[4:12] Speaker 2: which were named for Supreme Court Justice third Good Marshal
[4:16] Speaker 2: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Harriet Tubman. This is all
[4:21] Speaker 2: framed as an anti woke, anti DEI effort to restore
[4:26] Speaker 2: military greatness. This administration today has argued trans service members
[4:34] Speaker 2: have a false gender identity, which conflicts with the Armed
[4:38] Speaker 2: Forces standards of integrity. They are negatively impacting the military's lethality, readiness,
[4:45] Speaker 2: and cohesion. A June sixth deadline was sent for active
[4:51] Speaker 2: duty transgender service members to volunteer to leave and get
[4:57] Speaker 2: some benefits, and then trans people would be forced out
[5:01] Speaker 2: or quote involuntarily separated. Reserve members have until July the seventh.
[5:10] Speaker 2: Here's a short clip, and I'm going to play a
[5:11] Speaker 2: lot more from Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, IRAQ war veteran.
[5:19] Speaker 2: She was talking about Trump's removal of trans people from
[5:22] Speaker 2: the armed forces. This is from two months ago on
[5:25] Speaker 2: CBS Chicago.
[5:26] Speaker 4: Illinois Senator in a rock war veteran Tammy Duckworth reacts
[5:30] Speaker 4: this morning to President Trump's tweet that transgender people will
[5:33] Speaker 4: no longer be allowed to serve in the US military.
[5:37] Speaker 5: When I was bleeding to death in my helicopter after
[5:39] Speaker 5: that RPG ripped through the cockpit of the aircraft and
[5:42] Speaker 5: an American came to save my life, it didn't matter
[5:45] Speaker 5: to me if they were gay, if they were straight,
[5:47] Speaker 5: if they were transgendered. It only mattered that they wore
[5:49] Speaker 5: the uniform of the United States Military.
[5:52] Speaker 2: As much as I hate to read anything supposedly written
[5:56] Speaker 2: by Donald Trump and posted on the Trump at Administration's
[6:00] Speaker 2: White House page. We know Trump didn't write anything. I'm
[6:04] Speaker 2: about to read, and I'm just going to do a
[6:06] Speaker 2: few short sections. But we know it wasn't him because
[6:09] Speaker 2: these are complete sentences, coherent thoughts, as tragic as they are.
[6:14] Speaker 2: Nothing's in all caps, and at no point does he
[6:17] Speaker 2: call anybody horse face. The purpose of the military is
[6:22] Speaker 2: a clear mission to protect the American people and our
[6:25] Speaker 2: homeland as the world's most lethal and effective fighting force.
[6:30] Speaker 2: Success in this existential mission requires a singular focus on
[6:35] Speaker 2: developing the requisite warrior ethos, and the pursuit of military
[6:40] Speaker 2: excellence cannot be diluted to accommodate political agendas or other
[6:45] Speaker 2: ideologies harmful to unit cohesion. Recently, however, the armed forces
[6:52] Speaker 2: have been afflicted with radical gender ideology to appease activists
[6:57] Speaker 2: unconcerned with the requirements of military serve like physical and
[7:01] Speaker 2: mental health, self lessness, and unit cohesion. Jesus Pete Budages
[7:08] Speaker 2: served as the nineteenth US Secretary of Transportation from twenty
[7:12] Speaker 2: twenty one to twenty twenty five. He also was a mayor.
[7:17] Speaker 2: He was the thirty second mayor of South Bend, Indiana.
[7:21] Speaker 2: He is also a former Navy officer. Budajees is one
[7:25] Speaker 2: of my favorite people in the world. I wish you
[7:28] Speaker 2: would run for president. And I know a lot of
[7:30] Speaker 2: people are having conversations about how electable he is. But
[7:34] Speaker 2: he's just so smart and he's so good at what
[7:37] Speaker 2: he does. And then he goes on Fox News and
[7:41] Speaker 2: sits down in the crosshairs as everybody tries to ambush him,
[7:45] Speaker 2: and he just wipes the floor with him. It's awesome. Anyway.
[7:50] Speaker 2: He was an intelligence officer in the US Navy Reserve,
[7:54] Speaker 2: became a lieutenant. He was mobilized and deployed to Afghanistan
[7:58] Speaker 2: for seven months and twenty four team Beat the bootash
[8:02] Speaker 2: Ash of course, is gay and has a husband. He
[8:06] Speaker 2: was on a talk show recently and he was talking
[8:09] Speaker 2: about how labels don't really matter all that much in
[8:13] Speaker 2: the arena of combat.
[8:14] Speaker 6: I mean, again, I think back to the military, like
[8:17] Speaker 6: if I was getting in a vehicle to go outside
[8:19] Speaker 6: the wire, like the other people getting in the vehicle
[8:22] Speaker 6: with me definitely did not care if I was a
[8:26] Speaker 6: Republican or a Democrat, or like what country my dad
[8:28] Speaker 6: immigrated from, or if I'm going to home to a
[8:31] Speaker 6: girlfriend him. I'm really excited for the next hour. We're
[8:36] Speaker 6: going to talk about molt about Like all they wanted
[8:42] Speaker 6: to know obviously was that they could trust me to
[8:44] Speaker 6: do my job same thing, you know, vice versa, because
[8:46] Speaker 6: we're trusting each other every time we went outside the wire.
[8:49] Speaker 3: To be clear, I was not into like a combat
[8:51] Speaker 3: or maneuver.
[8:51] Speaker 2: You know.
[8:51] Speaker 6: My job was just to like drive them safely to
[8:53] Speaker 6: where they needed to go. But that that could be scared.
[8:55] Speaker 6: It does have risk, and not everybody should be in
[9:01] Speaker 6: the military, but like everybody should be in environments where
[9:05] Speaker 6: you know people as people first.
[9:08] Speaker 2: Now much has been said about the warrior ethos. Pete
[9:12] Speaker 2: hag Seth, Defense secretary and former Fox News Weekend Houst
[9:17] Speaker 2: talks a lot about the warrior ethos. I went to
[9:20] Speaker 2: the US Army website just to find out what that is,
[9:24] Speaker 2: and there's a page about the values of the US
[9:29] Speaker 2: Army warrior ethos. I will always place the mission first.
[9:33] Speaker 2: I will never accept defeat, I will never quit, I
[9:36] Speaker 2: will never leave a fallen comrade. There's a soldier's creed.
[9:42] Speaker 2: Let's see what it says. I'm an American soldier, I'm
[9:45] Speaker 2: a warrior and a member of a team. I serve
[9:47] Speaker 2: the people of the United States. I live the Army values.
[9:51] Speaker 2: I will always place the mission first. I will never
[9:53] Speaker 2: accept defeat. I will never quit. I will never leave
[9:56] Speaker 2: a fallen comrade. I am disciplined, physically and mentally, tough,
[10:01] Speaker 2: trained and proficient, and my warrior tasks and drills. I
[10:05] Speaker 2: always maintain my arms, my equipment, and myself. I'm an expert,
[10:10] Speaker 2: and I'm a professional. I stand ready to deploy, engage,
[10:15] Speaker 2: and destroy the enemies of the United States of America
[10:18] Speaker 2: in close combat. I'm a guardian of freedom and the
[10:22] Speaker 2: American way of life. There are other creeds. I see
[10:26] Speaker 2: an NCO creed, a ranger creed, the Army song, the
[10:29] Speaker 2: oath of enlistment. I'm going to spare you all those,
[10:31] Speaker 2: but you get it. I will be loyal, I will
[10:34] Speaker 2: train hard. I will never leave a man or a
[10:37] Speaker 2: woman behind. So why in the world wouldn't LGBT people
[10:42] Speaker 2: be able to serve without being discriminated against? And don't
[10:46] Speaker 2: kid yourself. All non headeroes are in the crosshairs. They're
[10:50] Speaker 2: starting with trans people, but it's not about just trans people.
[10:53] Speaker 2: This is about people who are non HEATERO and the
[10:57] Speaker 2: eventual charge to remove them, probably as somebody waves that
[11:02] Speaker 2: American flag and screams the name of God again on
[11:07] Speaker 2: the warrior athos. This is US Representative Sarah Jacobs of
[11:13] Speaker 2: the fifty first Congressional District of California. She was just
[11:18] Speaker 2: recently at a House Armed Services Committee hearing and she
[11:21] Speaker 2: was speaking to defend Secretary Pete Hegseth.
[11:25] Speaker 3: Check this out, Secuary heg Seth.
[11:27] Speaker 7: As you probably know, today is National Women's Veterans Day,
[11:31] Speaker 7: and in your confirmation hearing and in subsequent conversations, you've said,
[11:37] Speaker 7: and I'm quoting you, now, women in our military have
[11:39] Speaker 7: and continue to make amazing contributions across all aspects of
[11:43] Speaker 7: our battlefield, and that women were some of the best
[11:45] Speaker 7: soldiers you served with. Do you still stand by those statements? Yes, great,
[11:50] Speaker 7: thank you. As you probably know, I represent San Diego,
[11:54] Speaker 7: the biggest military community in the country, so I meet
[11:57] Speaker 7: with countless service members all the time. And with your
[12:00] Speaker 7: focus on emphasis on merit and standards, I wanted to
[12:04] Speaker 7: tell you about three incredible women in our military. So
[12:08] Speaker 7: the first woman is a major responsible for advanced collective
[12:12] Speaker 7: war fighting training. Her officer evaluation report rates her as
[12:16] Speaker 7: most qualified, and some of the comments included are, and
[12:20] Speaker 7: I'm quoting now, she lives the Army values and demonstrates
[12:24] Speaker 7: the warrior ethos daily. She rates within the top five
[12:27] Speaker 7: percent of officers I've encountered in eighteen years of military service.
[12:32] Speaker 7: The second woman is an aviator with a record of
[12:35] Speaker 7: over fifty combat missions, including deployments to Iraq in Afghanistan.
[12:39] Speaker 7: Two quotes from her most recent fitness report in April
[12:43] Speaker 7: quoting again, people excel under her leadership and she has
[12:48] Speaker 7: my strongest possible recommendation for promotion. The third woman is
[12:53] Speaker 7: an instructor for an Army ROTC battalion. According to her
[12:57] Speaker 7: evaluation report, her overall performance was rated at far exceed standards,
[13:02] Speaker 7: and the comments include she is undoubtedly within the top
[13:05] Speaker 7: five percent of non commission officers I've worked with in
[13:08] Speaker 7: my twenty two years of service. Given their stellar qualifications
[13:13] Speaker 7: and accomplishments, and their record of surpassing standards, I assume
[13:17] Speaker 7: that you agree that the Pentagon and the Services should
[13:19] Speaker 7: do everything they can to retain women like these.
[13:22] Speaker 2: Correct.
[13:24] Speaker 8: I would commend the major, the aviator, and the instructor
[13:28] Speaker 8: for their service.
[13:29] Speaker 3: Great.
[13:29] Speaker 7: I'm glad you agree. Because I also believe we should
[13:32] Speaker 7: be recruiting and retaining the very best and brightest in
[13:34] Speaker 7: our country to serve in the military. And yet you
[13:38] Speaker 7: are actually kicking out these three highly qualified service members
[13:42] Speaker 7: solely because of their identity. These are trans women, and
[13:45] Speaker 7: you are using the very same arguments that have been
[13:49] Speaker 7: used against desegregating the military, or allowing women to serve,
[13:53] Speaker 7: or allowing.
[13:54] Speaker 3: Gay people to serve.
[13:55] Speaker 7: And in all those cases those arguments were wrong. So
[13:59] Speaker 7: I think it's clear that this is actually not about
[14:02] Speaker 7: standards or and I'm quoting you again, an equal, unwavering,
[14:06] Speaker 7: gender neutral, merit based system, because if it were, you
[14:10] Speaker 7: would be keeping these women in. Instead, you are the
[14:13] Speaker 7: one injecting culture wars into the military, and it's at
[14:17] Speaker 7: the detriment of our military readiness and national security. Now,
[14:21] Speaker 7: General Kin, i'd like to turn to you.
[14:23] Speaker 3: Should be clear, these are these are men who think
[14:25] Speaker 3: they're women. These are women.
[14:27] Speaker 7: I'm happy to educate you on, uh, these are men.
[14:30] Speaker 2: What we've identified is that there's mental health issues. I'd
[14:33] Speaker 2: like to leave system.
[14:33] Speaker 3: I'd like to turn to General or detrimental to readiness.
[14:36] Speaker 4: And that's the determination that we've made and that we
[14:38] Speaker 4: stand behind gender to.
[14:39] Speaker 7: Forces, and so you don't don't You don't trust your
[14:42] Speaker 7: commanding officers to be able to evaluate the people under
[14:45] Speaker 7: them to decide if this, if that were true, wouldn't
[14:48] Speaker 7: that show up in their fit reps? And yet these
[14:50] Speaker 7: fit reps are from the last three months, and all
[14:53] Speaker 7: of their commanding officers say that they exceed standards.
[14:57] Speaker 2: Here are the words of Commander Emily Shilling, a US
[15:01] Speaker 2: naval aviator who was also an out transgender woman.
[15:06] Speaker 3: Look, I just want to keep serving.
[15:07] Speaker 8: I'm at nineteen and a half years, I have sixty
[15:10] Speaker 8: combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm a certified test
[15:13] Speaker 8: pilot flown over twenty one airframes at seventeen hundred flight
[15:17] Speaker 8: hours in aircraft like the F eighteen that you saw
[15:19] Speaker 8: on top Gun two.
[15:21] Speaker 3: I just want to keep doing my job.
[15:23] Speaker 2: Of course, we've got Project twenty twenty five, which was
[15:26] Speaker 2: authored by people who have been declaring LGBT marriage non heterosexuality,
[15:32] Speaker 2: these unholy unions between the sodomites. These are markers for
[15:37] Speaker 2: America's moral collapse. Remember back when Trump said I don't
[15:42] Speaker 2: know anything about it, I don't really care, and then
[15:46] Speaker 2: you watch his administration how many people that are part
[15:50] Speaker 2: of the Trump White House are also critical parts of
[15:53] Speaker 2: Project twenty twenty five. Just a few days ago, the
[15:56] Speaker 2: Southern Baptist Convention just passed a resolution supporting a concerted
[16:01] Speaker 2: effort to repeal same sex marriage. As we approach the
[16:07] Speaker 2: ten year anniversary of that historic decision by the Supreme
[16:11] Speaker 2: Court which required states to issue marriage licenses to same
[16:16] Speaker 2: sex couples and to recognize same sex marriages. Oh no,
[16:21] Speaker 2: the Southern Baptist Convention says it is now going to
[16:24] Speaker 2: commit all of its powers, are much of its powers
[16:28] Speaker 2: to building a coalition of anti gay marriage proponents. And
[16:33] Speaker 2: here we go again. By the way, this was a
[16:39] Speaker 2: story that broke Actually I saw it on Hemmet Meta's
[16:41] Speaker 2: Friendly Atheist sub stack about a guy who works in
[16:46] Speaker 2: it for the Oklahoma state governments. Turns out he's also
[16:52] Speaker 2: a preacher. You know what kind of a church he
[16:56] Speaker 2: preaches for? Try the new independent fund Dementalist Baptists. Now
[17:01] Speaker 2: you've heard about, or maybe you've heard about hate preacher
[17:04] Speaker 2: Stephen Anderson. He's probably the most famous. These guys are
[17:08] Speaker 2: the ones who stand in front of a podium on
[17:10] Speaker 2: a small stage and they've got like a wheat Field
[17:13] Speaker 2: Mural behind them, and they've got maybe one hundred people
[17:17] Speaker 2: in their immediate local congregation. Most of their audience is
[17:22] Speaker 2: on social media. They broadcast this hate everywhere and they
[17:26] Speaker 2: go hard I mean they are hardline Old Testament. God
[17:30] Speaker 2: wants to rain sulfur and pain and death on LGBT people,
[17:35] Speaker 2: and we are so glad that is what they are.
[17:39] Speaker 9: Like.
[17:39] Speaker 2: Okay, this is the preach sermons all the time about
[17:43] Speaker 2: and celebrate the potential execution of non heterosexual people. Oh lookie,
[17:49] Speaker 2: there's a guy who works it for the state of Oklahoma.
[17:54] Speaker 2: His name is Dylan oz I guess that's how you
[17:57] Speaker 2: say it, Awes. He preaches at a church called Anchor
[18:02] Speaker 2: Baptist Church part time. So I got a state job
[18:07] Speaker 2: over here, and now I'm going to go over to
[18:08] Speaker 2: Anchor Baptist Church and I'm going to preach my sermons
[18:11] Speaker 2: calling for executing gay people. In fact, the government should
[18:15] Speaker 2: execute gay people. Quote, they should be lined up against
[18:18] Speaker 2: the wall and shot in the back of the head.
[18:20] Speaker 2: That's what God teaches, That's what the Bible says. He
[18:24] Speaker 2: says homosexuals are pedophiles. He says sodomites are responsible for
[18:29] Speaker 2: school shootings. Gay people are full of disease. They are predators.
[18:35] Speaker 2: He uses the f slur for non heterosexuals. They should
[18:40] Speaker 2: get a bullet in their brain. This guy working for
[18:44] Speaker 2: the government in an it capacity, the state of Oklahoma
[18:49] Speaker 2: paying this man, and it took his fellow state workers
[18:54] Speaker 2: how long to find out or figure out or even
[18:57] Speaker 2: care that he was doing it. This is part of
[18:59] Speaker 2: a larger movement against anyone and everyone who is not white,
[19:03] Speaker 2: conservative Evangelical Protestant, probably male Christian nationalists. Of course, we
[19:10] Speaker 2: cannot ignore the racial aspect of discrimination in the armed forces,
[19:14] Speaker 2: especially knowing Donald Trump's administration working hard to restore the names,
[19:19] Speaker 2: the reputations, and the monuments to racist war generals, Confederate icons, etc.
[19:28] Speaker 2: Their statues removed from public squares. He wants them back.
[19:32] Speaker 2: He wants military bases renamed for these Confederate racists. Really,
[19:40] Speaker 2: and CBS this morning, they had a feature just a
[19:43] Speaker 2: few years ago on how we still see the echoes
[19:46] Speaker 2: the footprint of race based discrimination throughout the American military.
[19:51] Speaker 10: In a twenty nineteen survey, more than half of people
[19:54] Speaker 10: of color serving in uniform said they had personally witnessed
[19:58] Speaker 10: white nationalism or racism in the military. According to the
[20:01] Speaker 10: Defense Department, around seventeen percent of US troops identify themselves
[20:06] Speaker 10: as black. We spoke with several former active duty service
[20:09] Speaker 10: members of different races and religions about their experiences.
[20:13] Speaker 11: And as a black woman, I had to wonder, Okay,
[20:16] Speaker 11: is this happening because I have overis or is it
[20:18] Speaker 11: because I have melany.
[20:19] Speaker 10: Ten year Army veteran Mary Tobin says racism in the
[20:23] Speaker 10: ranks often isn't camouflaged. But as a student leader at
[20:27] Speaker 10: West Point, Tobin had to inspect cadet's rooms.
[20:30] Speaker 11: You come in with a white glove and of course
[20:33] Speaker 11: you check for dirt, and.
[20:34] Speaker 10: She quickly found a red flag.
[20:36] Speaker 3: Two white men who were roommates.
[20:38] Speaker 11: I walked in and there was a very large Confederate flag.
[20:42] Speaker 11: I saw the flag. I looked at them, They looked
[20:44] Speaker 11: at me, and I could tell they were trying to
[20:47] Speaker 11: get a reaction out of me. That happened two more times,
[20:50] Speaker 11: and finally I had a discussion with them and told
[20:54] Speaker 11: them about how that felt for me as a black
[20:56] Speaker 11: woman from the South, coming into the room every inspection
[20:59] Speaker 11: is seeing that flo It hurt me dearly.
[21:02] Speaker 10: Now nearly two decades later, the Confederate flag is no
[21:06] Speaker 10: longer allowed at West Point, but Tobin says reminders of
[21:09] Speaker 10: that painful past remained.
[21:11] Speaker 11: One example is the name of a barracks named after
[21:14] Speaker 11: General Lee.
[21:15] Speaker 3: I lived in that.
[21:16] Speaker 2: In those barracks at West Point, there's Lee Barracks, There's
[21:19] Speaker 2: Lee Gate, There's Lee Rod, there's Roberty Lee Housing Area.
[21:23] Speaker 3: Enough.
[21:25] Speaker 2: Donald Trump very recently speaking at Fort Bragg, I find
[21:29] Speaker 2: it interesting that a five time draft dodger, commander bone
[21:33] Speaker 2: Spurs likes to play soldier. I just find that fascinating. Anyway,
[21:38] Speaker 2: he's speaking at Fort Bragg. He said, can you believe
[21:40] Speaker 2: they changed that name in the last administration for a
[21:44] Speaker 2: little bit? Fort Bragg is in that's the name, and
[21:48] Speaker 2: Fort Braggitt shall always remain. That's never going to be
[21:52] Speaker 2: happening again. Of course, Fort Bragg was named to honor
[21:55] Speaker 2: the Confederate General Brexton Bragg. It was renamed Fort La Liberty,
[22:00] Speaker 2: and now it has reverted. Trump has said the original
[22:04] Speaker 2: names will be restored to Fort Gordon in Georgia, Fort
[22:08] Speaker 2: ap Hill in Virginia, Fort Hood in Texas, Fort Lee
[22:12] Speaker 2: in Virginia, Fort Pickett in Virginia, Fort Polk in Louisiana
[22:18] Speaker 2: and Fort Rucker in Alabama. By the way, military dot
[22:23] Speaker 2: Com revealed that there was a pre screening for soldiers
[22:30] Speaker 2: as a requirement to attend Donald Trump's speech. Here's a
[22:35] Speaker 2: clip from WRL News.
[22:38] Speaker 4: Steve Bainen is a national security correspondent for Military dot Com.
[22:42] Speaker 4: Manon looked into who was chosen to sit behind the president.
[22:46] Speaker 4: Internal communication within the eighty second Airborn Division outlined specific directives.
[22:52] Speaker 4: Those include soldiers sitting in the bleachers are to be
[22:55] Speaker 4: fit and not look fat, and soldiers with political views
[22:59] Speaker 4: in opposite dition who don't want to be there need
[23:02] Speaker 4: to get swapped out well.
[23:03] Speaker 12: But even when a step further, there was a Trump
[23:07] Speaker 12: merchandise shop, this whole like pop up shop, it's called
[23:12] Speaker 12: a campaign three sixty five that was selling T shirts
[23:16] Speaker 12: and shosh keys and all sorts of memorabilia.
[23:19] Speaker 4: In a statement to WRIL, an eighteenth Airborne Corps spokesperson wrote,
[23:24] Speaker 4: the Army does not endorse political merchandise or the views
[23:27] Speaker 4: it represents. The vendor's presence is under review to determine
[23:31] Speaker 4: how it was permitted and to prevent similar occurrences in
[23:35] Speaker 4: the future.
[23:36] Speaker 2: Pretty unbrand for Donald Trump. To bring a freaking gift shop.
[23:39] Speaker 2: But the whole idea is that the military is non partisan,
[23:43] Speaker 2: non political. They represent all Americans. After the break standing by,
[23:50] Speaker 2: I've got somebody with an insider's perspective. Soon he'll be
[23:54] Speaker 2: outside the military because he's getting the boot. Doctor Ben
[23:58] Speaker 2: Hamilton is a doctor, science educator, and atheist activist. We're
[24:04] Speaker 2: going to talk to Ben next. I want a frontline,
[24:14] Speaker 2: firsthand perspective specific to the military. My first choice right
[24:20] Speaker 2: at the top of my list, Doctor Ben Hamilton, who
[24:24] Speaker 2: joins me here, Hey, Don, thanks for coming.
[24:27] Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me on Big Fan.
[24:30] Speaker 2: Tell everybody real fast kind of who you are and
[24:32] Speaker 2: what you do.
[24:33] Speaker 9: Yeah. So, I am a Doctor of Osteopath of Medicine AKADO,
[24:37] Speaker 9: equivalent to an MD in the United States. I'm currently
[24:41] Speaker 9: on administrative leave with the military, have been with them
[24:44] Speaker 9: for two years in the army as a physician. But
[24:47] Speaker 9: I'm also on the Internet doing shows like Medical Myths,
[24:50] Speaker 9: The Transatlantic Collin Show, and Talk Heathen. Because I'm also
[24:55] Speaker 9: a transperson and an outspoken atheist.
[24:57] Speaker 2: Here on this platform, trans people have been a convenient
[25:00] Speaker 2: villain among many other villains for the culture. Certainly this
[25:04] Speaker 2: administration give me your perspective on current events. I know
[25:08] Speaker 2: it's a broad question, but what's the vibe. How are
[25:10] Speaker 2: you feeling?
[25:11] Speaker 3: The vibe is definitely toxic.
[25:14] Speaker 9: It's definitely an angle of us not being wanted, and
[25:18] Speaker 9: they know how to play the game to get their
[25:21] Speaker 9: objective across without actually following the steps. It's very much
[25:25] Speaker 9: let's try to get all of them out as quickly
[25:28] Speaker 9: as possible with as little legal intervention throughout the way.
[25:33] Speaker 2: Tell me about this ban. I will call it a ban.
[25:37] Speaker 2: They call it what a voluntary resignation of transgender people
[25:42] Speaker 2: from the military. Is that what they're calling it.
[25:45] Speaker 9: Yeah, it's absolutely wild, they're calling it it. So there's
[25:49] Speaker 9: a voluntary separation and involuntary separation. Typically, if you volunteer
[25:55] Speaker 9: to separate, that's a big no no, you don't do that.
[25:58] Speaker 9: That's like you're giving up or commission, you're giving up
[26:01] Speaker 9: your contract. It's like it's a breach of contract normally
[26:04] Speaker 9: if you do that. But in this case, it's better
[26:08] Speaker 9: to voluntarily separate. Essentially, if you out yourself as a
[26:13] Speaker 9: transperson and you say, okay, I will leave, they will
[26:17] Speaker 9: give you two times separation pay. If you're greater than
[26:20] Speaker 9: six years of service, they will wipe your contract so
[26:24] Speaker 9: you don't owe any more time. They'll let you keep
[26:27] Speaker 9: all of your retention bonuses prior to February twenty twenty five,
[26:31] Speaker 9: and you will be guaranteed an honorable discharge. On the
[26:35] Speaker 9: flip side if you don't out yourself, if they go
[26:39] Speaker 9: through your medical records, which is what they're threatening to do,
[26:42] Speaker 9: is to go through people's medical records, have their doctors
[26:45] Speaker 9: out them as having a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and
[26:48] Speaker 9: in that case, you will be booted. They're saying that
[26:51] Speaker 9: you'll get your regular separation pay again, only if you're
[26:55] Speaker 9: six years or past that. Anyone before that does not
[26:58] Speaker 9: get anything, and presumably you're going to have to owe
[27:01] Speaker 9: back whatever money they gave you, and possibly like financial recoupment,
[27:07] Speaker 9: like in my case, they paid for medical school, which
[27:10] Speaker 9: is about three hundred thousand dollars that I would owe them,
[27:13] Speaker 9: so if I involuntarily separated, they would make me probably.
[27:17] Speaker 3: Pay that back. It's blackmail, absolutely, it absolutely is.
[27:21] Speaker 9: And the weird thing about this too is they are
[27:23] Speaker 9: framing this legally as it's not a ban on trans people,
[27:27] Speaker 9: it's a ban on gender dysphoria. They're trying to say
[27:31] Speaker 9: it's a medical reason. However, they're not giving us a
[27:35] Speaker 9: medical discharge. They're not going about it the way they
[27:38] Speaker 9: would for any other medical condition. And if they want
[27:42] Speaker 9: to say that gender dysphoria is equivalent to depression, anxiety,
[27:47] Speaker 9: et cetera, there are ways already for people with severe
[27:52] Speaker 9: depression to either stay in or get out of the military.
[27:55] Speaker 3: That's already set up in the system.
[27:57] Speaker 9: But to make matters worse as well, it's not just
[28:00] Speaker 9: if you currently have gender dysphoria, it's if you have
[28:04] Speaker 9: ever had gender dysphoria or if you have ever attempted
[28:08] Speaker 9: to change your sex.
[28:09] Speaker 2: And that's how they are defining it gender dysphoria. How
[28:14] Speaker 2: would you define that for this audience.
[28:16] Speaker 9: Yeah, gender dysphoria essentially best described as like an incoherence
[28:21] Speaker 9: between your sex and how you identify with your sense
[28:25] Speaker 9: of self and sis gender people can also have gender dysphoria.
[28:29] Speaker 9: So if you are a male and you get a
[28:32] Speaker 9: hair transplant, that is gender affirming care because the idea
[28:36] Speaker 9: of looking more masculine alleviates some distress related to perceived gender.
[28:42] Speaker 9: So people who get breast augmentations that's also usually to
[28:46] Speaker 9: alleviate gender dysphoria. So it's that discomfort we get when
[28:50] Speaker 9: people misidentify what our gender is.
[28:53] Speaker 2: I just at the beginning of the show was reading
[28:56] Speaker 2: from the official White House page and it it also
[29:00] Speaker 2: made some I won't even say implications. It just set
[29:04] Speaker 2: out right something about wanting to restore unit cohesion and
[29:09] Speaker 2: dedication and bravery encourage the messages that people who are trans.
[29:15] Speaker 2: And you and I both know that it's going to
[29:17] Speaker 2: then spill into all non heteros. But the idea is
[29:21] Speaker 2: that you can't be courageous, you can't have a cohesive unit,
[29:25] Speaker 2: a family bond, you might leave a man or woman behind.
[29:30] Speaker 2: That's the message, right.
[29:32] Speaker 9: Yeah, which is hilarious because we have throughout my networking
[29:36] Speaker 9: within the trans military community, we have kernels who are
[29:40] Speaker 9: in theater that are getting pulled from their units. You
[29:43] Speaker 9: have people who have multiple combat deployments, you people with
[29:47] Speaker 9: multiple achievement awards. You're pulling people with high levels of skill,
[29:52] Speaker 9: You're pulling senior leaders, You're pulling people with decades upon
[29:56] Speaker 9: decades of experience that it takes a long time, lot
[30:00] Speaker 9: of money to produce people of that caliber. And you're
[30:03] Speaker 9: pulling them because you think that they are going to
[30:05] Speaker 9: cause disruption. However, when asked in the court cases like
[30:10] Speaker 9: how many people were causing these disruptions, they couldn't give
[30:14] Speaker 9: any data on it. And it would seem that if
[30:16] Speaker 9: people were causing a disruption that would be known, we
[30:20] Speaker 9: would know about it.
[30:21] Speaker 2: You realize you and I both have the same challenge.
[30:24] Speaker 2: You can't really control who's in your comments section. I'm
[30:27] Speaker 2: not sure that you really want to unless you get
[30:29] Speaker 2: abuse of people in there. But this has become such
[30:32] Speaker 2: a hot button political football. One side over here saying
[30:36] Speaker 2: transphobe and the other side over here is screaming gender cult.
[30:40] Speaker 2: You've heard that one, right, This is an ideological thing.
[30:43] Speaker 2: You're just part of a cult. Maybe you are broken
[30:45] Speaker 2: in some way. How do you deal? How do you
[30:47] Speaker 2: respond or do you respond to those kinds of accusations?
[30:51] Speaker 3: Oh?
[30:51] Speaker 9: Yeah, most of the time I don't respond to them.
[30:54] Speaker 9: I'd stay clear of my comment section. But obviously I'm
[30:58] Speaker 9: on a call in show where people'll talk to us
[31:00] Speaker 9: about trans issues, and a lot of it is bridging
[31:04] Speaker 9: this gap of just humanizing people. I think a lot
[31:08] Speaker 9: of what this ideology war comes down to is us
[31:13] Speaker 9: versus them and human or not human. And for some reason,
[31:17] Speaker 9: if we can make trans people seem less human, then
[31:20] Speaker 9: they're way easier to fight against. And I think a
[31:24] Speaker 9: lot of people just don't understand that trans people are
[31:26] Speaker 9: just people.
[31:28] Speaker 2: Well, you and I could spend a whole lot of
[31:30] Speaker 2: time over here. Let's draw back. Let me draw back
[31:32] Speaker 2: to the military. How do your fellow soldiers treat you?
[31:36] Speaker 2: How have your fellow soldiers treated transgender people, non binary,
[31:43] Speaker 2: LGBT people, non heteros, How are they approached and what
[31:47] Speaker 2: is often considered to be kind of a hardline, chest
[31:50] Speaker 2: thumping masculinity culture.
[31:52] Speaker 9: Yeah, in my experience, it's been overwhelmingly positive. I think
[31:57] Speaker 9: most commands want to keep unit cohesion and the best
[32:00] Speaker 9: way to do that is by respecting everybody.
[32:03] Speaker 3: For the past several years, the.
[32:05] Speaker 9: Army has had initiatives in place for equal opportunity, and
[32:09] Speaker 9: they have at least they previously had a mandatory training
[32:13] Speaker 9: that everybody had to go to about hey, don't discriminate
[32:15] Speaker 9: against other people. And of course you have a couple
[32:18] Speaker 9: here and there are people that will tough and puff
[32:20] Speaker 9: about it, but for the most part, commands are very respectful.
[32:24] Speaker 9: My command has always been like, they've been willing to
[32:29] Speaker 9: let me be a hee him and wear the clothes
[32:31] Speaker 9: that I wear, and they've been completely respectful. My unit
[32:34] Speaker 9: has not made a huge deal out of it at
[32:36] Speaker 9: all until now. But even after the band went in
[32:39] Speaker 9: place where they said, hey, you can't use the improper
[32:43] Speaker 9: pronouns for people, meaning you're supposed to call people by
[32:45] Speaker 9: their birth sex, my command never switched. They never started
[32:49] Speaker 9: misgendering me, and from my perspective, there was no issue
[32:54] Speaker 9: with me integrating into the unit like anybody else. I
[32:57] Speaker 9: was treated exactly the same way.
[33:00] Speaker 2: Be a bit of a cliche, but in my mind,
[33:02] Speaker 2: I'm thinking, you know, the bunks at boot camp and
[33:05] Speaker 2: the showers, may these conversations that are being had when
[33:09] Speaker 2: it comes to trans people, etc.
[33:12] Speaker 9: Yeah, it's awkward because per the regulation, you have to
[33:16] Speaker 9: use facilities based on your gender marker in the system
[33:21] Speaker 9: which it was that you could change that and then
[33:24] Speaker 9: as soon as you change your gender marker you were
[33:26] Speaker 9: able to bunk with whoever you identified with. In my case,
[33:31] Speaker 9: my gender marker never changed because I had some reasons
[33:35] Speaker 9: for not fully changing that yet, largely related to like
[33:39] Speaker 9: fitness tests and like body composition, which gets really sticky.
[33:43] Speaker 9: But so I've been bunking with the women and using
[33:47] Speaker 9: the facilities of women. But a lot of time when
[33:51] Speaker 9: there was another option to use a gender neutral space,
[33:54] Speaker 9: my command would offer for me to use that space.
[33:57] Speaker 9: So there are certain accommodations that can be made. It's
[34:00] Speaker 9: not always guaranteed, but that is probably the hardest thing
[34:03] Speaker 9: is if your gender marker wasn't changed, that you still
[34:06] Speaker 9: had to abide by those rules.
[34:09] Speaker 2: At the Weekend Reason conference that I recently attended in Canada,
[34:14] Speaker 2: doctor Aaron DeVore is an internationally recognized leader in transgender
[34:20] Speaker 2: studies and he's been studying and teaching about this stuff
[34:23] Speaker 2: since the early nineteen eighties. He brought up a point
[34:26] Speaker 2: from the stage I hadn't considered as much because I'm
[34:29] Speaker 2: you know, I've got an outside in perspective. But it
[34:32] Speaker 2: wasn't just about the discomforts of people who were in
[34:36] Speaker 2: the bunks and the showers when a transgender person comes in,
[34:39] Speaker 2: But it's also about the safety and well being of
[34:41] Speaker 2: the transgender person, right, I mean, how much do you
[34:45] Speaker 2: feel like am I going to get my ass kicked?
[34:48] Speaker 2: Are they going to Is there going to be physical harm?
[34:50] Speaker 2: Will there be other consequences when you enter something like that,
[34:53] Speaker 2: especially in a close quarters unit like that. Are these
[34:57] Speaker 2: conversations you've had in your own head.
[34:59] Speaker 9: Yes, And from my side, it's a bit less risky
[35:04] Speaker 9: being in women's spaces. I've noticed that cisgender women are
[35:08] Speaker 9: way less likely to at least engage in violence.
[35:11] Speaker 13: On that.
[35:11] Speaker 9: I've had kind of some awkward times where people are like,
[35:14] Speaker 9: this is the women's storm, and I'm like, I have
[35:17] Speaker 9: to be here. But other than that, like once I
[35:19] Speaker 9: told them they were pretty cool. But I think a
[35:22] Speaker 9: lot of the danger comes from the men's barracks, especially
[35:25] Speaker 9: with regard to trans women. They're the highest risk for violence,
[35:29] Speaker 9: specifically because of cis gender men and their desire to
[35:33] Speaker 9: prove their masculinity with physical violence.
[35:36] Speaker 3: So I would have a lot more.
[35:38] Speaker 9: Of those fears, honestly if I was in the male
[35:41] Speaker 9: dorms than if I was in the female But I've
[35:44] Speaker 9: definitely had those thoughts, and especially like even outside the military,
[35:48] Speaker 9: going into men's bathrooms, I do have that thought quite frequently.
[35:53] Speaker 2: You're worried that somebody who has very primitive ideas of
[35:57] Speaker 2: what manhood is is going to who then become somehow
[36:01] Speaker 2: threatened by somebody who is not quite like them or
[36:05] Speaker 2: who doesn't validate their idea. You know, Donald Trump is
[36:08] Speaker 2: that way very much. You know, He's always sort of
[36:10] Speaker 2: expressing outwardly this this notion of masculinity, the warrior culture.
[36:16] Speaker 2: And of course you and I are like five deferments,
[36:19] Speaker 2: you know, Commander bone Spurs. What's the military saying? This
[36:24] Speaker 2: is a broader question. What are people in the armed
[36:27] Speaker 2: forces saying about all this bullshit, whether it's the you know,
[36:31] Speaker 2: the Kim Jong un type parades and him walking around
[36:35] Speaker 2: playing soldier? Does anybody talk about this?
[36:38] Speaker 9: The people that I've talked with are really not in
[36:41] Speaker 9: favor of all this going on. I guess the side
[36:44] Speaker 9: of the military that I've been on with, you know,
[36:47] Speaker 9: being medical and then also my current unit, if you will,
[36:50] Speaker 9: is the is a chemical unit, so kind of the
[36:53] Speaker 9: nerdy side. But I know from the more combat arm
[36:57] Speaker 9: side of things, they can be a bit more conservative,
[37:01] Speaker 9: and by a bit, I mean a lot more conservative.
[37:04] Speaker 9: I personally haven't heard anything specifically about their view on
[37:07] Speaker 9: the parades and everything, but there are some pretty hardcore Trumpers,
[37:11] Speaker 9: like in the force.
[37:13] Speaker 3: I've been fortunate not to run into them.
[37:15] Speaker 2: A whole lot, So all transgender people are out period.
[37:21] Speaker 9: Well, anyone that has come out of the closet at all.
[37:24] Speaker 9: There's technically this is something interesting. There technically is a waiver,
[37:29] Speaker 9: but it's not a real waiver. It's just in there
[37:31] Speaker 9: for legal reasons because it says that you can stay
[37:35] Speaker 9: in if you've never had a diagnosis of gender dysphoria
[37:39] Speaker 9: and if you've never had medical intervention on the grounds
[37:42] Speaker 9: of being trans. So basically, if you're in the closet,
[37:46] Speaker 9: you're fine. So basically, the waivers only there to protect
[37:49] Speaker 9: people who are not actually trans.
[37:52] Speaker 2: So if someone has had gender reassignment surgery and is
[37:55] Speaker 2: totally under everybody's radar, they could skate through. Do you
[38:00] Speaker 2: think they could be under that radar and finish out
[38:03] Speaker 2: whatever term in the military they wanted to finish.
[38:06] Speaker 9: They possibly could if the administration does not go through
[38:11] Speaker 9: their medical records, which of course is a breach of HIPPA.
[38:14] Speaker 9: They should not be allowed to do this. Doctors should
[38:16] Speaker 9: not be outing anybody to anybody, like there's that confidentiality
[38:20] Speaker 9: that you're supposed to have, and really the only job
[38:23] Speaker 9: of military medicine should be hey, are you able to
[38:27] Speaker 9: do your job or not, but if they're going to
[38:29] Speaker 9: use the medical system against people, that could be one
[38:32] Speaker 9: way that they would be outed. It would take a
[38:34] Speaker 9: while probably for them to be dug up like that,
[38:38] Speaker 9: but I think this administration may be barbaric enough to
[38:42] Speaker 9: go through with that.
[38:43] Speaker 2: And if they are seen to have been dishonest, bad agents, etc.
[38:47] Speaker 2: Then they get kicked out and they get no benefits.
[38:50] Speaker 2: They get you know, there's nothing, and they say you
[38:53] Speaker 2: owe all the debt of the moneies that we paid
[38:56] Speaker 2: for and then they're really hosed.
[38:58] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[38:58] Speaker 9: Absolutely, So it's it's a big risk for somebody taking
[39:03] Speaker 9: that route.
[39:04] Speaker 2: What's your intuition. I know it's a subjective opinion, but
[39:07] Speaker 2: you've got an insider's view. Are all non headeros next?
[39:13] Speaker 3: I think so.
[39:14] Speaker 9: And I think it's kind of a toss up whether
[39:17] Speaker 9: it's going to be gay people next or if it's
[39:19] Speaker 9: going to be women next. But one of the two
[39:22] Speaker 9: groups is definitely going to be next on the chopping block.
[39:25] Speaker 9: We're already seeing steps to try to remove women from
[39:29] Speaker 9: combat arms specialties, so trying to keep women in an
[39:32] Speaker 9: admin role, and I could see that going to trying
[39:34] Speaker 9: to keep women out of the military in general.
[39:37] Speaker 2: So one of the common things that we're hearing out
[39:39] Speaker 2: there is that the male primate is largely going to
[39:44] Speaker 2: be bigger in frame, more muscle mass, more physical strength. Therefore,
[39:50] Speaker 2: it should be males in the arena of combat. It
[39:53] Speaker 2: should be men who are the warriors out on the
[39:57] Speaker 2: front lines for defending the country and defeating our enemies,
[40:01] Speaker 2: and women are simply too weak.
[40:03] Speaker 9: How would you respond to that, Yeah, I would say
[40:05] Speaker 9: that you can't base decisions about an individual on averages.
[40:10] Speaker 9: This is an ecological fallacy, and I like to use
[40:12] Speaker 9: this for the trans people in sports argument as well.
[40:15] Speaker 9: You have an average that people will cite. However, people
[40:19] Speaker 9: span that entire range of what is humanly possible, and
[40:23] Speaker 9: you have to make these decisions based on the individual.
[40:25] Speaker 9: So if you have super super able bodied women that
[40:29] Speaker 9: are completing ranger school, that are completing jump school, that
[40:32] Speaker 9: are doing all these things that are required to do
[40:34] Speaker 9: some high speed jobs in the military, why are you
[40:37] Speaker 9: going to say that they shouldn't be allowed to do it.
[40:40] Speaker 9: They are meeting the same standards as men. So why
[40:42] Speaker 9: are you penalizing those people who do meet the qualifications
[40:46] Speaker 9: and saying that, well, but the average is lower than you.
[40:50] Speaker 9: So you must be within that average.
[40:53] Speaker 2: You pass the test, you met the requirement. That seem's
[40:57] Speaker 2: pretty basic to me. Ben, what happens to you next
[41:01] Speaker 2: they're kicking you out? You're a physician, What do you
[41:04] Speaker 2: go into private practice?
[41:05] Speaker 7: What?
[41:06] Speaker 9: So? I'm still in the midst of my training, so
[41:11] Speaker 9: I completed my internear, but I still have to get
[41:15] Speaker 9: board certified. I'm technically licensed to practice independently. However, most
[41:20] Speaker 9: insurances don't like to cover physicians that are not board certified.
[41:24] Speaker 9: So my plan is essentially to figure out these next
[41:28] Speaker 9: basically as next year, reapply to residency on the civilian side,
[41:32] Speaker 9: and then go live the rest of my life and
[41:34] Speaker 9: be happy as a civilian physician.
[41:36] Speaker 2: You think we're going to see a reversal, Let's say,
[41:39] Speaker 2: if we're not burning cinders by the midterms and then
[41:44] Speaker 2: finally it just seems like twenty twenty eight just seems
[41:47] Speaker 2: like next century to me. But do you have any
[41:52] Speaker 2: intuition that maybe there will be a course correction down
[41:55] Speaker 2: the way? Maybe you know, in my lifetime. I don't know.
[41:57] Speaker 2: What are your thoughts?
[41:59] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[41:59] Speaker 10: I know.
[42:00] Speaker 9: So as far as this administration, there are Dems trying
[42:03] Speaker 9: to pass a bill preventing discrimination within the military against
[42:08] Speaker 9: gender identity. I don't think that's going to pass. I'm
[42:10] Speaker 9: not hopeful that's going to pass. If we have a
[42:13] Speaker 9: great midterm election, maybe they'll bring that again and maybe
[42:18] Speaker 9: we'll see that overturned.
[42:19] Speaker 3: I still think it's unlikely.
[42:21] Speaker 9: I think it's unlikely that the Supreme Court is going
[42:23] Speaker 9: to intervene in any positive way. So I think more
[42:26] Speaker 9: than likely what will happen is we will get kicked out.
[42:30] Speaker 9: The next administration will come in, they may try to
[42:34] Speaker 9: reverse the executive order, and most of the trans.
[42:37] Speaker 3: People will say, fuck off. I don't want to come back.
[42:40] Speaker 2: It's funny. You can burn a house down in fifteen minutes,
[42:44] Speaker 2: but it takes like, you know, six months to rebuild it,
[42:47] Speaker 2: and I feel like the damage being done is just
[42:49] Speaker 2: so intense. The rebuilding is going to be such a
[42:53] Speaker 2: long game. Doctor Ben Hamilton of the Medical Myths Channel,
[42:58] Speaker 2: also co host of Talk Heath and the Transatlantic Collins Show.
[43:02] Speaker 2: For your insigner's perspective, you are much appreciated. I'm sorry
[43:06] Speaker 2: that what is happening is happening, but you certainly have
[43:09] Speaker 2: supporters and family here, and this is information that helps
[43:13] Speaker 2: us at least to be better informed as we move forward.
[43:16] Speaker 2: So thanks for being here.
[43:18] Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
[43:20] Speaker 2: On the subject of women in the military. Now I
[43:23] Speaker 2: mentioned Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, elected back in twenty sixteen.
[43:29] Speaker 2: She's an Iraq War veteran, Purple Heart recipient and former
[43:33] Speaker 2: Assistant Secretary of the United States Department of Veteran Affairs.
[43:39] Speaker 2: She was among the first of a handful of Army
[43:41] Speaker 2: women to fly combat missions during Operation Iraqi Freedom. She
[43:45] Speaker 2: served in the Reserve Forces for twenty three years before
[43:48] Speaker 2: retiring as a lieutenant colonel in twenty fourteen. Again, she
[43:52] Speaker 2: is in the Senate. And for anybody who thinks she
[43:55] Speaker 2: was a dei hire even all those decades ago, she
[44:00] Speaker 2: was the co pilot of a UH sixty Blackhawk helicopter
[44:04] Speaker 2: when she was struck by an RPG. The aircraft went down.
[44:08] Speaker 2: She lost her right leg near the hip and her
[44:11] Speaker 2: left leg below the knee. She was the first American
[44:14] Speaker 2: female double amputee from the Iraq War that injury sustained
[44:19] Speaker 2: back in two thousand and four. Today she is a
[44:22] Speaker 2: senator and a few years ago and if you won
[44:25] Speaker 2: an example of the culture shift from inclusivity a country
[44:30] Speaker 2: in a military that looks like all of us to exclusivity,
[44:34] Speaker 2: that sort of has that caricature of what the warrior is.
[44:38] Speaker 2: This is Senator Duckworth from five years ago. She was
[44:43] Speaker 2: on stage speaking to an audience at the Elliott School
[44:47] Speaker 2: of International Affairs.
[44:49] Speaker 5: When I was in flight school, I was only female
[44:52] Speaker 5: in my particular class, and the instructors would come up
[44:56] Speaker 5: to me all the times. Do you have any other
[44:58] Speaker 5: women that you know that would apply to military flights?
[45:01] Speaker 5: We to become helicopter pilots because women make better natural
[45:03] Speaker 5: pilots than men. On Day one has to do with
[45:05] Speaker 5: multitasking ability. You get a guy and you tell them
[45:08] Speaker 5: to take that bridge or take that outlet.
[45:10] Speaker 3: Machine gun's nest. He's like laser focus. He's going to
[45:13] Speaker 3: do that.
[45:13] Speaker 5: But if you need someone who can fly the aircraft
[45:15] Speaker 5: that takes both hands posed feet, listen to three different
[45:18] Speaker 5: radio shadows, read the map, talk to your crew in
[45:20] Speaker 5: the back, so you talk through the aircraft over there
[45:23] Speaker 5: and make sure you don't get lost.
[45:24] Speaker 2: You want a woman.
[45:27] Speaker 3: And they're disagreement, Yeah, so they stay found. So they're
[45:29] Speaker 3: always trying to get more women to ply, but the
[45:31] Speaker 3: women never apply. No, one was preventing the women from applying.
[45:34] Speaker 5: They just never apply because they never thought of themselves
[45:36] Speaker 5: as being pilots.
[45:39] Speaker 3: And I think that's what happens.
[45:41] Speaker 5: A lot among women and minority candid It's just that
[45:44] Speaker 5: you see certain images of what this person is and
[45:48] Speaker 5: you don't see your face in that position, of someone
[45:51] Speaker 5: who looks like you in that position. So then you
[45:54] Speaker 5: don't go after it because you don't think of that
[45:56] Speaker 5: as a possibility. And we have to break those barriers,
[46:00] Speaker 5: but then we have to be able to image that.
[46:02] Speaker 5: And so that's what I say to folks is you know,
[46:04] Speaker 5: just try it and if you fail, so what, get
[46:07] Speaker 5: back up and try it again. Try to be that ambassador.
[46:11] Speaker 5: There's no reason that an ambassador needs to be a
[46:13] Speaker 5: white man. An ambassador can be anyone. And in fact,
[46:16] Speaker 5: some of the best ambassadors we have with the ones
[46:18] Speaker 5: who have the cultural backgrounds for the countries that they're
[46:21] Speaker 5: going to represent.
[46:23] Speaker 2: But under the current regime, would women feel comfortable applying
[46:29] Speaker 2: to the armed forces? The Trump administration right now has
[46:34] Speaker 2: not a single woman in a four star general or
[46:38] Speaker 2: admiral leadership position, not one. We had the departure aka
[46:45] Speaker 2: firing of Admiral Linda Fagan. She was the first woman
[46:49] Speaker 2: to lead the Coast Guard. She was appointed by Biden
[46:52] Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty two. On Trump's first day in office,
[46:56] Speaker 2: she was fired. Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois said that
[47:01] Speaker 2: Fagan was more qualified to serve in her role than
[47:04] Speaker 2: Pete Hegseth is to be Defense Secretary. She said Trump
[47:09] Speaker 2: would rather appear anti woke than keep our military strong.
[47:14] Speaker 2: Admiral Fagan had had almost a forty year career. She
[47:18] Speaker 2: had served on all seven continents in high ranking roles
[47:22] Speaker 2: like Pacific Area Commander, District and Sector Commander, and Marine Inspector.
[47:28] Speaker 2: And while certainly she was a human being and her
[47:31] Speaker 2: tenures were far from perfect, this idea that she was
[47:35] Speaker 2: ill qualified for the position, and I think throwing DEEI
[47:40] Speaker 2: out there really exposed their hand. Well, no wonder Donald
[47:44] Speaker 2: Trump wanted her gone. Also this year, Pete Hegseth dismissing
[47:49] Speaker 2: Lieutenant General Jennifer Short, the senior military assistant to the
[47:54] Speaker 2: Secretary of Defense. She was a C one thirty navigator
[47:58] Speaker 2: and an eight ten pilot, served for less than a
[48:01] Speaker 2: year in her job, and she was handed her hat.
[48:06] Speaker 2: Also Talita Crossland, former head of the military's Defense Health Agency,
[48:11] Speaker 2: was forced to retire after a thirty two year career.
[48:15] Speaker 2: These are just a few examples. By the way, women
[48:19] Speaker 2: did not officially serve in the Armed forces until President
[48:23] Speaker 2: Harry Truman signed the Women's Armed Service Integration Act in
[48:27] Speaker 2: June of nineteen forty eight, which allowed women to have
[48:31] Speaker 2: permanent status in the Armed Forces. And here we are
[48:35] Speaker 2: seventy seven years later and going backwards. It seems I'm
[48:41] Speaker 2: going to play some kind of special for you to
[48:44] Speaker 2: finish out the last segment of the broadcast. I'd mentioned
[48:48] Speaker 2: civil rights activist and veteran the late Harvey Milk. Well,
[48:54] Speaker 2: he gave a historic speech and the words of that
[48:57] Speaker 2: speech were recreated in an epic way. I can't think
[49:01] Speaker 2: of a better way to climax the broadcast, so we
[49:04] Speaker 2: will play that for you next. Appreciate you so much.
[49:14] Speaker 2: Thank you for your support Patreon, becoming a YouTube member,
[49:20] Speaker 2: and buying swag on the Thinking Atheist store. I got
[49:25] Speaker 2: some cool mugs out there with the icon and the
[49:29] Speaker 2: slogan on it. Their tote bags and T shirts and mousepads,
[49:33] Speaker 2: and there's even a T shirt that has kat on it.
[49:36] Speaker 2: By Popular demand. Whenever you get the merch, you are
[49:40] Speaker 2: supporting me and the work, so everybody, hopefully everybody wins.
[49:45] Speaker 2: Just go to the Thinkingatheist dot com and you will
[49:48] Speaker 2: see on the tab at the top the word shop.
[49:52] Speaker 2: So do a little retail therapy, do a little shopping,
[49:55] Speaker 2: and thanks so much for the support. Today we are
[49:59] Speaker 2: talking about discrimination in the United States military. Now on
[50:05] Speaker 2: a related note, in Hungary, I know we're talking about
[50:09] Speaker 2: the States, but this matters. Donald Trump loves Victor Orbon,
[50:13] Speaker 2: the Prime Minister of Hungary, which has been a human
[50:17] Speaker 2: rights night. Mayre Orbon and his government have been waging
[50:22] Speaker 2: war on LGBT people across the board. They have banned pride,
[50:30] Speaker 2: even though people go out and hold pride events anyway,
[50:33] Speaker 2: they've banned. They pass this draconian law that said it
[50:37] Speaker 2: is illegal to hold pride and similar events. So the
[50:41] Speaker 2: right to assembly, free assembly, that's gone for a massive
[50:45] Speaker 2: demographic Hungary has also adopted a repressive law banning the
[50:50] Speaker 2: quote portrayal and promotion of LGBT content to children, which
[50:56] Speaker 2: means pretty much everywhere right where do you go where
[50:59] Speaker 2: there's there aren't kids. And these gay people and trans
[51:03] Speaker 2: people are a threat to our children. Now familiar does
[51:07] Speaker 2: that sound? We got Project twenty twenty five types, the
[51:10] Speaker 2: Christian nationalist types, the authoritarians, all of these people they
[51:14] Speaker 2: do what they do under the guys, Well, it's just
[51:17] Speaker 2: about protecting the most vulnerable among us. We must be
[51:22] Speaker 2: the gatekeepers and keep all the achy different, sodomite, wicked
[51:28] Speaker 2: people out right. That's essentially how they justify their hatred
[51:32] Speaker 2: and the laws that are built on that hatred. And
[51:34] Speaker 2: I just find it interesting because Donald Trump wants to
[51:38] Speaker 2: be the Victor Orbond of the United States of America.
[51:43] Speaker 2: How terrifying is that. I mentioned Harvey Milk earlier in
[51:49] Speaker 2: the broadcast. Well, he gave a famous speech way back
[51:53] Speaker 2: on Gay Freedom Day, the twenty fifth of June nineteen
[51:56] Speaker 2: seventy eight, and he gave this speech on the steps
[51:59] Speaker 2: of San frand Cisco City Hall. I was looking for
[52:02] Speaker 2: the speech and his words, and I couldn't find anything
[52:04] Speaker 2: that wasn't over produced with a bunch of music and
[52:08] Speaker 2: dramatic stuff, and many of those were mixed so that
[52:11] Speaker 2: you could not even really hear his voice very well.
[52:14] Speaker 2: But I stumbled upon a recitation of that speech given
[52:20] Speaker 2: by none other than the great actor sir Ian McKellen
[52:25] Speaker 2: for ten minutes. He recited word for word the Hope Speech.
[52:30] Speaker 2: This was posted word four word on the Elmeida Theater
[52:33] Speaker 2: YouTube page. And I'm going to finish the show with this.
[52:37] Speaker 2: Today Harvey Milk had been talking about how non heterosexuals
[52:42] Speaker 2: needed representation in our halls of power at the highest
[52:46] Speaker 2: levels of visibility, not just having advocates, but running themselves,
[52:52] Speaker 2: being out there themselves, engaging with influence for the purpose
[52:57] Speaker 2: of positive change themselves. And again it is is what
[53:01] Speaker 2: the Trump administration and the bigots out there are trying
[53:04] Speaker 2: to erase. What they're trying to knock out, what they're
[53:07] Speaker 2: trying to defeat, the humanization and celebration of gay people
[53:12] Speaker 2: at all levels of society, including and our government and
[53:16] Speaker 2: our armed forces. Let me leave you with this, Sir
[53:20] Speaker 2: Ian McKellen performing the Hope Speech given fifty years ago
[53:27] Speaker 2: in San Francisco by Harvey Milk.
[53:30] Speaker 13: About six months ago, Anisa Bryant, in her speaking to
[53:34] Speaker 13: God said that the droughts in California was because of
[53:38] Speaker 13: the gay people. On November the ninth, the day after
[53:44] Speaker 13: I got elected, it started to rain. On the day
[53:48] Speaker 13: I got sworn in. We walked to city Hall and
[53:50] Speaker 13: it was kind of nice, and as soon as I
[53:52] Speaker 13: said the word I do, it started to rain again.
[53:56] Speaker 13: It's been raining since then, and the people of San
[53:59] Speaker 13: Francisco figure the only way to stop it is to
[54:02] Speaker 13: do a recall petition.
[54:07] Speaker 2: So much for that.
[54:10] Speaker 13: Why are we here, why are gay people here? And
[54:17] Speaker 13: what's happening? Well, let's look at nineteen seventy seven. In
[54:23] Speaker 13: nineteen seventy seven, gay people had their rights taken away
[54:26] Speaker 13: from them in Miami. But you must remember that in
[54:30] Speaker 13: the week before Miami and the week after that, the
[54:34] Speaker 13: word of a sexual okay appeared in every single newspaper
[54:39] Speaker 13: in this nation, in articles both pro and con in
[54:43] Speaker 13: every radio station, every TV station, at every household. For
[54:48] Speaker 13: the first time in the history of the world, everybody
[54:52] Speaker 13: was talking about it, good or bad. Unless you have dialogue,
[54:59] Speaker 13: Unless you open the walls of dialogue, you can never
[55:02] Speaker 13: reach to change people's opinion. Once you have dialogue starting,
[55:06] Speaker 13: you know you can break down prejudice. In nineteen seventy
[55:11] Speaker 13: seven we saw a dialogue start. In nineteen seventy seven,
[55:16] Speaker 13: we saw a gay person elected in San Francisco. What
[55:20] Speaker 13: that is is a record of what happened last year.
[55:24] Speaker 13: What we must do is make sure that nineteen seventy
[55:27] Speaker 13: eight continues the movement. I know we're pressed for time,
[55:32] Speaker 13: so I'm going to cover just one more little point.
[55:35] Speaker 13: That is to understand why it is important that gave
[55:38] Speaker 13: people run for office and that gay people get elected.
[55:43] Speaker 13: I know there are many people in this room who
[55:46] Speaker 13: are running for Central Committee who again, I encourage you,
[55:50] Speaker 13: and there's a major reason why. If my non gay
[55:54] Speaker 13: friends and supporters in this room understand it, they'll probably
[55:57] Speaker 13: understand why I've run so often before I found made it.
[56:01] Speaker 13: You see, there is a major difference and it remains
[56:04] Speaker 13: a vital difference between a friend and a gay person,
[56:09] Speaker 13: a friend in office and a gay person in office.
[56:14] Speaker 13: Gay people have been slandered nationwide. We've been tired, and
[56:19] Speaker 13: we've been brushed with the picture of pornography. In Dade County,
[56:23] Speaker 13: we were accused of child molestation. It's not enough anymore
[56:31] Speaker 13: just to have friends represent us, no matter how good
[56:35] Speaker 13: that friend may be. The black community made up its
[56:39] Speaker 13: mind to that a long time ago that the myths
[56:42] Speaker 13: against blacks can only be dispelled by electing black leaders.
[56:45] Speaker 13: So the black community could be judged by the leaders
[56:47] Speaker 13: and not by the myths or black criminals. The Spanish
[56:51] Speaker 13: community must not be judged by Latin criminals or myths.
[56:55] Speaker 13: The Asian community must not be judged by Asian criminals
[56:58] Speaker 13: or myths. The Italian community must not be judged by
[57:01] Speaker 13: the mafia myths.
[57:04] Speaker 2: And the time has come and.
[57:06] Speaker 13: The gay community must not be judged by our criminals
[57:09] Speaker 13: and myths. Like every other group, we must be judged
[57:13] Speaker 13: by our leaders and by those who are themselves gay,
[57:16] Speaker 13: those who are visible. For invisible, we remain in limbo,
[57:25] Speaker 13: a myth, a person with no parents, no brothers, no sisters,
[57:30] Speaker 13: no friends who are straight, no important positions in employment,
[57:36] Speaker 13: a tenth of the nation supposedly composed of stereotypes and
[57:39] Speaker 13: would be seducers of children, and no offense meant to
[57:43] Speaker 13: the stereotypes. But today the black community is not judged
[57:48] Speaker 13: by its friends, but by its black legislators and leaders.
[57:51] Speaker 13: And we must give people the chance to judge us
[57:55] Speaker 13: by our leaders and legislators. A gay person and an
[58:00] Speaker 13: office can set a tone, can command respect not only
[58:03] Speaker 13: from the larger community, but from the young people in
[58:06] Speaker 13: our own community who need both examples and.
[58:10] Speaker 4: Hope.
[58:14] Speaker 13: The first gay people we elect must be strong. They
[58:17] Speaker 13: must not be content to sit in the back of
[58:19] Speaker 13: the bus. They must not be content to accept pabuable.
[58:22] Speaker 13: They must be above wheeling a dealing. They must be
[58:25] Speaker 13: for the good of all of us, independent and bought.
[58:30] Speaker 13: The anger and the frustrations that some of us feel
[58:32] Speaker 13: is because we are misunderstood, and friends can't feel the
[58:37] Speaker 13: anger and frustration. They can sense it in us, but
[58:40] Speaker 13: they can't feel it because a friend has never gone
[58:45] Speaker 13: through what is known as coming out. I will never
[58:52] Speaker 13: forget what it was like coming out and having nobody
[58:55] Speaker 13: to look up toward.
[58:58] Speaker 2: I remember the lack of hope.
[59:02] Speaker 13: And our friends can't fulfill it. I can't forget the
[59:07] Speaker 13: looks on faces of people who've lost hope, be they gay,
[59:10] Speaker 13: be the seniors, be they blacks looking for an almost
[59:12] Speaker 13: impossible job, be they latins trying to explain their problems
[59:16] Speaker 13: and aspirations in a tongue that's foreign to them. I
[59:20] Speaker 13: personally will never forget that people are more important than buildings.
[59:24] Speaker 13: I use the word I because I'm proud. I stand
[59:30] Speaker 13: here tonight in front of my gay sisters, brothers, and
[59:34] Speaker 13: friends because I'm proud of you. I think it's time
[59:39] Speaker 13: that we have many legislators who are gay and proud
[59:42] Speaker 13: of that fact and do not have to remain in
[59:44] Speaker 13: the closet. I think that a gay person upfront will
[59:47] Speaker 13: not walk away from a responsibility and be afraid of
[59:49] Speaker 13: being tossed out of office. After Date County, I walked
[59:55] Speaker 13: among the angry and the frustrated night after night, and
[59:57] Speaker 13: I looked at their faces. And in San Francisco, go
[1:00:01] Speaker 13: three days before Gay Pridday, a person was killed just
[1:00:04] Speaker 13: because he was gay.
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: And that night.
[1:00:10] Speaker 13: I walked among the sad and the frustrated at city
[1:00:12] Speaker 13: Hall in San Francisco. And later that night, as they
[1:00:14] Speaker 13: lit candles on castro streets and stood in silence, reaching
[1:00:20] Speaker 13: out was some symbolic thing that would give them hope.
[1:00:28] Speaker 13: These were strong people his face, as I knew from
[1:00:31] Speaker 13: the shop, the streets, meetings and people who I never
[1:00:35] Speaker 13: saw before, but I knew they were strong. But even
[1:00:41] Speaker 13: there he died hope. And the young gay people who
[1:00:47] Speaker 13: are coming out, and here Anita Bryant on television and
[1:00:50] Speaker 13: a story, the only thing they have to look forward
[1:00:54] Speaker 13: to is hope. And you have to give them hope,
[1:00:59] Speaker 13: Hope for a better world, Hope for a better tomorrow,
[1:01:02] Speaker 13: Hope for a better place to come to if the
[1:01:04] Speaker 13: presses at home.
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: Are too great.
[1:01:06] Speaker 13: Hope that all will be all right without hope, not
[1:01:12] Speaker 13: only gays, but the blacks, the seniors, the handicapped, the usses.
[1:01:18] Speaker 13: The usses will give up. And if you help elect
[1:01:23] Speaker 13: to the Central Committee and other offices more gay people,
[1:01:25] Speaker 13: that gives a green light to all who feel this enfranchise,
[1:01:29] Speaker 13: a green.
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: Light to move forward.
[1:01:31] Speaker 13: It means hope to a nation that has given up,
[1:01:34] Speaker 13: because if a gay person makes it, the doors are.
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: Open to everyone.
[1:01:42] Speaker 13: So if there is a message I have to give,
[1:01:44] Speaker 13: it is that I've found one overriding thing about my
[1:01:47] Speaker 13: personal election. It's the fact that if a gay person
[1:01:50] Speaker 13: can be elected, it's a green light.
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: And you, and you and you, you have to give
[1:01:59] Speaker 2: people hope. That's the speech, and that's the show. Go
[1:02:06] Speaker 2: out there and empower somebody today, and also empower yourselves.
[1:02:11] Speaker 2: Let's spread some hope and do some good. Thanks for listening.
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[1:02:19] Speaker 1: complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and
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