# Mel Gibson is a Mess!

An episode of [TheThinkingAtheist](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/412308695), 21 Jan 2025, 1 h 17 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/mgln.ai/e/711/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/63692115/podcast783_melgibsonv2.mp3

Mel Gibson is on the circuit promoting his latest movie, "Flight Risk." His January 9th stop was The Joe Rogan Experience. Yet instead of talking film, Mel expounded on the crucifixion, evolution, Fauci, Ivermectin, RFK Jr., and an 8000-year-old Earth. Seth has thoughts about Mel's thoughts. The Joe Rogan Interview Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/thethinkingatheist--3270347/support.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: The Thinking Atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
[0:09] Speaker 1: an idea.
[0:10] Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through the.
[0:13] Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I
[0:19] Speaker 1: tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not
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[0:24] Speaker 1: a wish and working together for a more rational world.
[0:29] Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.
[0:32] Speaker 3: Truth, Fusian wisdom will come to you that way.
[0:35] Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
[0:43] Speaker 1: Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
[0:56] Speaker 2: Just a few days ago, the actor director Mel Gibson
[1:00] Speaker 2: appeared on the Joe Rogan Podcast and it went pretty
[1:05] Speaker 2: much as you and I might expect. And I'm going
[1:09] Speaker 2: to play some clips and do some commentary on that interview.
[1:13] Speaker 2: I mean, two hours and twenty minutes of what. He
[1:16] Speaker 2: was promoting his new film starring Mark Wahlberg, a movie
[1:20] Speaker 2: called Flight Risk. Mel Gibson is an enigma because you
[1:27] Speaker 2: know he has been in the past such a beloved figure.
[1:31] Speaker 2: You know, there was a time like mel Gibson, he
[1:33] Speaker 2: was just the man. If there was a mel Gibson movie,
[1:36] Speaker 2: you wanted to go see it. He seemed like really
[1:38] Speaker 2: good people. And then the headlines came out about all
[1:42] Speaker 2: of the homophobic things that he was saying and what
[1:44] Speaker 2: he used the N word, and he was verbally and
[1:47] Speaker 2: even physically abusive, and it was just one example after
[1:51] Speaker 2: another example of awful behaviors. And you know, it really
[1:56] Speaker 2: came to a head twenty almost twenty years ago, so
[2:00] Speaker 2: the whole world was talking about it. Hollywood had kind
[2:04] Speaker 2: of cast him off, and yet here he is, and
[2:08] Speaker 2: he's still around, and he still has a career, and
[2:11] Speaker 2: he's still making millions of dollars for the system and
[2:14] Speaker 2: for himself. And you know, there's a legitimate question about
[2:18] Speaker 2: how is this happening? Is there a double standard? Would
[2:22] Speaker 2: people abide or allow or excuse this kind of thing
[2:27] Speaker 2: from another actor who may not have had, you know,
[2:30] Speaker 2: the road Warrior, leather clad bad boy lethal weapon image.
[2:34] Speaker 2: You know what if Tom Hanks had been on record
[2:37] Speaker 2: doing and saying the things that Mel Gibson has done
[2:40] Speaker 2: and said, and especially in light of this new interview
[2:43] Speaker 2: that he just did for Joe Rogan, I want to
[2:45] Speaker 2: spend a show talking about Mel Gibson. I'm going to
[2:49] Speaker 2: take a few detours here and there, and we're going
[2:52] Speaker 2: to elaborate and investigate. And then later on in the broadcast,
[2:57] Speaker 2: because Mel tries to talk about fossils, I'm going to
[3:00] Speaker 2: bring in a palaeontologist. You probably already know who it's
[3:04] Speaker 2: going to be, but we're going to do that later
[3:07] Speaker 2: in the broadcast. Okay, First, a quick primer on the
[3:11] Speaker 2: life of the man. Mel Gibson born in New York
[3:14] Speaker 2: on the third of January nineteen fifty six. He moved
[3:18] Speaker 2: with his parents to Sydney, Australia when he was twelve,
[3:21] Speaker 2: studied acting at the National Institute of Dramatic Art, and
[3:25] Speaker 2: his first film changed his life. Of course, we're talking
[3:29] Speaker 2: about the nineteen seventy nine George Miller classic Mad Max,
[3:33] Speaker 2: for which mel Gibson was paid the staggering sum of
[3:39] Speaker 2: nine thousand dollars. That's about forty grand in today's money.
[3:43] Speaker 2: But still compare that to the twenty five million dollars
[3:48] Speaker 2: he was paid for starring in The Patriots twenty one
[3:52] Speaker 2: years later. And you and I know the landmark Gibson films,
[3:57] Speaker 2: The Road Warrior, Lethal Weapon, Maverick, the Austin winning Brave Heart.
[4:01] Speaker 2: We were soldiers. Beyond directing Brave Heart. He's also directed Apocalypto,
[4:07] Speaker 2: Hecksaw Ridge, The Man Without a Face, and most notoriously
[4:12] Speaker 2: two thousand and four is The Passion of the Christ,
[4:16] Speaker 2: which is a torture porn depiction of Jesus getting the
[4:20] Speaker 2: shit kicked out of him for almost two hours. It
[4:23] Speaker 2: was a film shown not just in theaters, but it
[4:26] Speaker 2: was sort of paraded around and displayed in churches. It
[4:29] Speaker 2: became the highest grossing R rated film in history at
[4:33] Speaker 2: that time, six hundred million dollars globally, more than half
[4:37] Speaker 2: of that revenue domestically. And Oh Joy. Mel Gibson is
[4:43] Speaker 2: filming a sequel for a twenty twenty six release, The
[4:48] Speaker 2: Resurrection of the Christ, And of course Jesus Christ in
[4:52] Speaker 2: those movies is played by actor Jim Cavesl, who is
[4:56] Speaker 2: several crackers short of a sharkuterie if you will. He
[5:01] Speaker 2: is a QAnon conspiracy theorist. He also starred in the
[5:04] Speaker 2: child sex trafficking movie which is definitely not a documentary
[5:09] Speaker 2: about Tim Ballard, the film The Sound of Freedom, and
[5:13] Speaker 2: he's just way out there. So he was Jesus in
[5:15] Speaker 2: two thousand and six, and he will be Jesus in
[5:18] Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. Back to mel Gibson, it is estimated
[5:23] Speaker 2: that two day, the sixty seven year old actor, producer, director,
[5:27] Speaker 2: studio owner and real estate investor has a personal net
[5:31] Speaker 2: worth of about four hundred and twenty five million dollars.
[5:35] Speaker 2: And the big blow up, the one everybody was talking about,
[5:38] Speaker 2: happened almost twenty years ago two thousand and six. But
[5:42] Speaker 2: mel Gibson's controversial behavior was nothing new. Nineteen eighty three,
[5:47] Speaker 2: he was in Toronto for a movie shoot. He was
[5:50] Speaker 2: driving intoxicated, pulled over and Toronto banned him from driving
[5:56] Speaker 2: a car for three months. The nineteen nineties were right
[6:00] Speaker 2: with accusations of homophobia. Mel Gibson did an interview in
[6:05] Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one with the Spanish newspaper where he was
[6:08] Speaker 2: asked about homosexuality, and he told the paper this quote,
[6:12] Speaker 2: they take it up the ass. This is only for
[6:15] Speaker 2: taking a shit. He protested that anyone would ever perceive
[6:19] Speaker 2: him as gay. Quote Do I look like a homosexual?
[6:23] Speaker 2: Do I talk like them? Do I move like them?
[6:28] Speaker 2: The nineteen ninety five depiction of Edward the Second in
[6:32] Speaker 2: Braveheart became another lightning rod as Glad formerly the Gay
[6:37] Speaker 2: and Lesbian Alliance against defamation criticized it for being a
[6:42] Speaker 2: homophobic caricature. LGBT people protested the film for that reason.
[6:49] Speaker 2: Mel's response was suspiciously devoid of empathy. He said, I'll
[6:55] Speaker 2: apologize when hell Freeze is over. They can fuck off.
[7:00] Speaker 2: A few months after that, when he'd finally calmed down,
[7:02] Speaker 2: Mel Gibson met with GLAD representatives and apparently smoothed over
[7:08] Speaker 2: some troubled waters. Two thousand and six made global headlines Malibu, California.
[7:14] Speaker 2: It was reported that Mel Gibson was arrested on suspicion
[7:18] Speaker 2: of drunk driving. The arresting officer, La County Sheriff Deputy
[7:23] Speaker 2: James Mee and Officer me documented that Mel was just
[7:27] Speaker 2: ranting like a madman. Gibson said to the officer, quote
[7:31] Speaker 2: fucking Jews. The Jews are responsible for all the wars
[7:36] Speaker 2: in the world. Are you a Jew? Officer me also
[7:41] Speaker 2: wrote that mel Gibson repeatedly threatened him, saying that he
[7:46] Speaker 2: owns Malibu and would spend all of his money to
[7:49] Speaker 2: quote get even. Days later, mel Gibson apologized, saying that
[7:54] Speaker 2: he had acted like someone completely out of control, and
[7:58] Speaker 2: then he spoke about his disease of alcoholism. He later
[8:03] Speaker 2: made a longer, more elaborate apology to the Jewish community
[8:07] Speaker 2: for his antisemitic remarks. He acknowledged quote vitriolic and harmful words.
[8:13] Speaker 2: He said there should be no tolerance for those who
[8:15] Speaker 2: expressed those kinds of hateful remarks. Now it's interesting here
[8:20] Speaker 2: because Mel Gibson's father, Hutton Gibson, was a Holocaust denier.
[8:28] Speaker 2: Hutton told The New York Times magazine that the Holocaust
[8:31] Speaker 2: was fabricated. It was a plot to hide a secret
[8:36] Speaker 2: deal between Hitler and financiers to move Jews from Germany
[8:41] Speaker 2: into the Middle East. He also denied that Osama bin
[8:45] Speaker 2: Laden was behind nine to eleven. The planes that struck
[8:49] Speaker 2: the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were not occupied,
[8:53] Speaker 2: but rather they were all operated by remote control. And
[8:58] Speaker 2: there's a lot of suspicion that Mel's fond opinions heavily
[9:01] Speaker 2: influenced his son's. We can only speculate Mel Gibson's racism
[9:06] Speaker 2: and abusive behaviors would continue to surface. And I'm going
[9:10] Speaker 2: to play some disturbing audio here. July of twenty ten,
[9:15] Speaker 2: Mel was dating the Russian singer and songwriter Oaksana Grigorieva,
[9:20] Speaker 2: they'd been together for three years. They had a daughter
[9:23] Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine. Things were so intense and
[9:27] Speaker 2: awful at home that Oaksanna secretly recorded one of her
[9:31] Speaker 2: conversations with mel. The first clip Gibson expressing his disapproval
[9:38] Speaker 2: about the way his girlfriend dressed.
[9:41] Speaker 4: I don't work around in outside clothes.
[9:43] Speaker 5: I stayed awful more go out of Republican. It's a
[9:46] Speaker 5: fucking embarrassment to me. You look like a fucking bitch
[9:49] Speaker 5: on heat. And if you get raped by a pack
[9:51] Speaker 5: of nats, lily your phone all right, because you provoked it.
[9:56] Speaker 5: You are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake foo.
[10:00] Speaker 5: Do you feel you have to show off? I don't
[10:02] Speaker 5: like it. I don't want that woman. I don't want shoe.
[10:06] Speaker 5: I don't believe you anymore. I don't trust you. I
[10:10] Speaker 5: don't rob you.
[10:12] Speaker 2: The next clip, here, Gibson uses the slur wet back
[10:17] Speaker 2: when talking about Oaksana's live in housekeeper.
[10:21] Speaker 5: I will fire if she is at your house, I
[10:24] Speaker 5: will make it known and fire her.
[10:26] Speaker 6: Fine a reporter to the fucking people that takes fucking
[10:30] Speaker 6: money from the webback.
[10:31] Speaker 2: Okay, and this last segment, this is from the same call,
[10:35] Speaker 2: mel Gibson makes a death threat.
[10:39] Speaker 4: I'm shutting you.
[10:39] Speaker 5: I'll put you on rose. Do you understand that I'm
[10:44] Speaker 5: capable of it? Do you understand that?
[10:47] Speaker 2: Shortly after that audio was released to the public, mel
[10:50] Speaker 2: Gibson did an interview with Deadline. He said the tapes
[10:55] Speaker 2: were heavily edited, he had been having a bad day
[10:59] Speaker 2: and some people needed context to understand what was going on. Hey,
[11:04] Speaker 2: we've all had times in a relationship when we've said
[11:07] Speaker 2: things that were awful and that we didn't really mean.
[11:10] Speaker 2: I'm normally a good person. It was that kind of thing.
[11:13] Speaker 2: The same year, he pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor
[11:17] Speaker 2: battery charge against Oaksaka Grigoryeva, secured a restraining order. In
[11:23] Speaker 2: twenty ten, mel Gibson put on a three year probation,
[11:28] Speaker 2: given community service, He paid a four hundred dollars fine,
[11:32] Speaker 2: and he was ordered to attend a year of anger
[11:35] Speaker 2: management training. Now around that same time, mel Gibson was
[11:40] Speaker 2: doing a live TV interview with wg in's Dean Richards
[11:45] Speaker 2: about his then new movie called Edge of Darkness, and
[11:49] Speaker 2: this was supposed to be like his recovery movie or
[11:53] Speaker 2: his return to Hollywood type movie. He'd spent almost half
[11:56] Speaker 2: a decade kind of shunned by the business after this
[12:00] Speaker 2: stuff had come to light, but he was slowly climbing
[12:03] Speaker 2: his way back. This new Martin Campbell film was releasing.
[12:07] Speaker 2: Dean Richards asked mel Gibson about his reputation is troubled past?
[12:12] Speaker 2: You know, what were his thoughts? Had he done any reflection?
[12:16] Speaker 2: And what I find most interesting is the lack of
[12:18] Speaker 2: empathy and self analysis, self reflection in mel Gibson's response.
[12:25] Speaker 2: And then, of course there's the word at the end
[12:28] Speaker 2: what Mel called Dean before the camera feed cut. Here's
[12:33] Speaker 2: the clip.
[12:33] Speaker 7: Do you feel like you're a different person, maybe a
[12:36] Speaker 7: better person than you were five years ago?
[12:39] Speaker 8: Four years ago?
[12:40] Speaker 7: I mean everything that we've read about you, you've gone
[12:42] Speaker 7: through a lot of ups and downs in the past
[12:44] Speaker 7: few years.
[12:46] Speaker 8: Oh yeah, yeah, five, four or five years. Yeah, it's been.
[12:48] Speaker 4: Hey, it's a real roller coaster ride. You know, I
[12:51] Speaker 4: think I'm the same person I always was, except for
[12:54] Speaker 4: people as they go. Time teaches and you know, you
[12:59] Speaker 4: learn as you go.
[13:00] Speaker 7: So, hey, you think, do you think that the public
[13:03] Speaker 7: will perceive you any differently after all that's been in
[13:06] Speaker 7: the news about you?
[13:10] Speaker 4: What are you referring to specifically.
[13:12] Speaker 7: Referring to the you know, the drinking problems, referring to
[13:17] Speaker 7: what's been called the anti Semitic rant, referring that's all
[13:21] Speaker 7: those things.
[13:21] Speaker 8: You know, you know what I'm talking about, is it? Okay?
[13:24] Speaker 4: So that's almost four years ago, dude, I mean I've
[13:28] Speaker 4: moved on. I guess you haven't.
[13:30] Speaker 7: Well, I'm just I'm just wondering if you think that
[13:32] Speaker 7: the public has has moved on and will perceive you
[13:34] Speaker 7: in the same light.
[13:36] Speaker 8: Well, I certainly hope.
[13:37] Speaker 4: So, you know, it is a while back, and you
[13:39] Speaker 4: know I've done all the necessary maya kulpas.
[13:42] Speaker 8: So let's move on, dude, Come on.
[13:48] Speaker 7: Edge of Darkness opens today. It's good to see you
[13:51] Speaker 7: back in the saddle and doing what you do best.
[13:54] Speaker 7: Thanks a lot for joining us. Now take care, bye, asshole.
[14:01] Speaker 2: Okay, that was roughly fifteen years ago, and despite all
[14:06] Speaker 2: of the many red flags, somehow Mel Gibson has enjoyed
[14:11] Speaker 2: a comeback. He is climbing back up the wrung. Hollywood
[14:15] Speaker 2: has thrown out the welcome Matt welcome back to Hollywood.
[14:18] Speaker 2: There was an award ceremony in Los Angeles a while back.
[14:23] Speaker 2: Robert Downey Junior asked Mel Gibson to present Robert a
[14:28] Speaker 2: special award. He was going to be given some kind
[14:31] Speaker 2: of award for trophy for something, and to give the award.
[14:35] Speaker 2: Robert Downey Junior wanted Mel Gibson to do the honors
[14:40] Speaker 2: because mel had been a part of Robert Downey Junior's
[14:44] Speaker 2: own recovery from dark days. Here's what he said.
[14:48] Speaker 3: Actually, I asked Mel to present this award to me
[14:51] Speaker 3: for a reason, because when I couldn't get sober, he
[14:55] Speaker 3: told me not to give up hope, and he urged
[14:57] Speaker 3: me to find my faith didn't have to be his
[15:01] Speaker 3: or anyone else's, as long as it was rooted in forgiveness.
[15:06] Speaker 3: And I couldn't get hired, so he cast me in
[15:11] Speaker 3: the lead of a movie that was actually developed for him,
[15:14] Speaker 3: and he kept a roof over my head, and he
[15:15] Speaker 3: kept food on the table, and most importantly, he said
[15:20] Speaker 3: that if I accepted responsibility for my wrongdoings, and if
[15:24] Speaker 3: I embraced that part of my soul, it was ugly
[15:28] Speaker 3: hugging the cactus, he calls it.
[15:32] Speaker 2: He said that if I hugged the.
[15:33] Speaker 3: Cactus long enough, I'd become a man of some humility.
[15:38] Speaker 3: And that my life would take on a new meaning.
[15:41] Speaker 3: And I did, and it worked. All he asked in
[15:45] Speaker 3: return was that someday I helped the next guy in
[15:50] Speaker 3: some small way. It's reasonable to assume that at the
[15:54] Speaker 3: time he didn't imagine the next guy would be him, or.
[16:03] Speaker 2: That someday was tonight.
[16:07] Speaker 3: So anyway, on the special occasion, and in light of
[16:10] Speaker 3: the recent holidays, including Columbus Day, I humbly ask that
[16:15] Speaker 3: you join me unless you are completely without sin, in
[16:17] Speaker 3: which case you picked.
[16:18] Speaker 2: The wrong industry.
[16:22] Speaker 3: And forgiving my friend his trespasses, offering him the same
[16:25] Speaker 3: clean slate you have me, and allowing him to continue
[16:28] Speaker 3: his great and ongoing contribution to our collective art without shame.
[16:33] Speaker 3: He's hugged the cactus long enough.
[16:38] Speaker 2: Now My problem here is that nowhere, And send me
[16:42] Speaker 2: an example if you've got it, because I really want
[16:45] Speaker 2: to know. But I haven't found an interview, a place,
[16:50] Speaker 2: a segment, an instance, whatever where mel Gibson has really
[16:54] Speaker 2: focused and said I was a horrible person with destructive
[16:59] Speaker 2: idea and I'm so very sorry. That's that's I'm not
[17:04] Speaker 2: hearing that. I mean, he'll say something horrible and say, well,
[17:08] Speaker 2: I'm temperamental, and I've got alcoholism, and there are a
[17:10] Speaker 2: lot of problems, and I'm really sorry, and then I'll
[17:12] Speaker 2: meet with some people. But I mean, overall there have
[17:14] Speaker 2: been pockets of remorse, but mostly I think his attitude
[17:19] Speaker 2: has been what we heard in the wg In piece
[17:22] Speaker 2: and it's yesterday's news. Why can't people just get over it? Asshole? Right,
[17:29] Speaker 2: Well that's a problem. And I'm saying this is somebody
[17:32] Speaker 2: who has loved Mel gibson movies ever since The Road Warrior,
[17:39] Speaker 2: a masterpiece film. I have rooted for mel Gibson to
[17:43] Speaker 2: just bust out of this insanity, you know, to overcome
[17:47] Speaker 2: it and to recover and to make things right. I
[17:51] Speaker 2: have ached for the day that Mel Gibson would say
[17:54] Speaker 2: just a few sentences and then commit himself to living
[17:58] Speaker 2: out those deckslarations, coming forward and saying I was wrong,
[18:03] Speaker 2: I was hateful, I was a racist, I was a homophobe,
[18:06] Speaker 2: I was an abuser. I'm broken. It is understandable why
[18:12] Speaker 2: moral people would want nothing to do with who I
[18:15] Speaker 2: have been and maybe even who I am. I am
[18:18] Speaker 2: now from this moment going to commit to the rescue
[18:22] Speaker 2: of my mind and my heart so that my legacy
[18:26] Speaker 2: isn't going to be one that is anti humanity. I
[18:31] Speaker 2: pledge I promise to make myself accountable in my journey.
[18:35] Speaker 2: I'm going to try to earn trust for those who
[18:38] Speaker 2: will generously give it. They don't owe me trust, they
[18:42] Speaker 2: don't even owe me forgiveness. But I'm going to put
[18:45] Speaker 2: myself out there and try to earn it wherever I can.
[18:49] Speaker 2: And I'm going to use my tremendous wealth and influence
[18:53] Speaker 2: and power to advocate for the people that I have
[18:57] Speaker 2: harmed for so many dec I'm not trying to buy forgiveness.
[19:02] Speaker 2: I simply want to demonstrate my sincere desire to be
[19:08] Speaker 2: the better man. Oh my goodness, I think a lot
[19:12] Speaker 2: of people, many people would respond cautiously, but respond positively
[19:19] Speaker 2: to this. I mean, how many agents of hate and
[19:22] Speaker 2: harm have emerged and then committed themselves to the better way.
[19:27] Speaker 2: I always like to go back to the people who
[19:29] Speaker 2: were white supremacists, people who were part of the KKK,
[19:34] Speaker 2: and somehow they had an epiphany and they busted out
[19:36] Speaker 2: and then committed the rest of their lives to love
[19:39] Speaker 2: and acceptance and egalitarian, humanitarian values. Their legacy was not
[19:45] Speaker 2: going to be one of hate but of rescue. I mean,
[19:48] Speaker 2: it's possible, right, But with mel Gibson, it always seems
[19:51] Speaker 2: like everybody else is doing the stretching toward him instead
[19:57] Speaker 2: of him having an evolution. And then just a few
[20:01] Speaker 2: days ago, Mel Gibson was the featured guest on the
[20:05] Speaker 2: Joe Rogan Podcast talking about the new film that he
[20:09] Speaker 2: has directed called Flight Risk, and in just over two hours,
[20:16] Speaker 2: mel Gibson and Joe Rogan demonstrated again why we simply
[20:21] Speaker 2: can't have nice things. I'm going to talk about it
[20:27] Speaker 2: and play some audio in just a second, talking here
[20:38] Speaker 2: about mel Gibson, his problematic past, but more recently his
[20:43] Speaker 2: appearance on the Joe Rogan Show. Now, I want to
[20:47] Speaker 2: preface this first clip from the Rogan broadcast, episode number
[20:51] Speaker 2: two two five four, where as they were talking about
[20:55] Speaker 2: the California wildfires that have been unbelievable, just monumental, horrifically bad.
[21:02] Speaker 2: Mel Gibson's house burned down, but he and Joe Rogan
[21:07] Speaker 2: had opinions. Here we go, so.
[21:10] Speaker 9: Things are more dangerous now?
[21:12] Speaker 8: I think they are?
[21:13] Speaker 9: Yeah, I think so for sure.
[21:14] Speaker 8: Yep.
[21:15] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[21:15] Speaker 9: We were just talking about the wildfire situation and how
[21:19] Speaker 9: crazy it is that they spent twenty four billion dollars
[21:23] Speaker 9: last year on the homeless. Yeah, and what are they
[21:26] Speaker 9: spent on preventing these wildfires?
[21:29] Speaker 8: Zero zip zip.
[21:31] Speaker 4: And in twenty nineteen, I think Newsom said, you know,
[21:33] Speaker 4: I'm going to take care of the forest and maintain
[21:35] Speaker 4: the forests and do all that kind of stuff.
[21:37] Speaker 8: He didn't do.
[21:37] Speaker 9: Anything, didn't do anything. And then on top of that,
[21:39] Speaker 9: they cut the water off.
[21:40] Speaker 4: Yeah that's right. Yeah, it's all funny. And then I
[21:43] Speaker 4: think all our tax dollars probably went for Gavin's hair jail.
[21:46] Speaker 2: Okay, so just about everything that was said there is
[21:50] Speaker 2: a lie, and Governor Gavin Newsom isn't screwing around with
[21:53] Speaker 2: these people. He's got an entire page of refutations to
[21:56] Speaker 2: like the Sean Hannity, Donald Trump, Fox News lie is
[22:00] Speaker 2: about forest mismanagement and the reservoirs are empty, and you know,
[22:05] Speaker 2: there's not enough water for southern California and some of
[22:08] Speaker 2: it's being deliberately burned as part of a conspiracy to
[22:12] Speaker 2: make cheap apartment land. I mean, there's a whole ton
[22:14] Speaker 2: of stuff going out there. And so he's got this
[22:18] Speaker 2: page titled California fire Facts. And if I can just
[22:23] Speaker 2: digress for just a second. I want to read something
[22:26] Speaker 2: about the California wildfires. I know this is a Melt
[22:29] Speaker 2: Gibson themed show, but if they're going to talk about California,
[22:32] Speaker 2: I thought I would share this, which posted on the
[22:35] Speaker 2: tenth of January. The poster's name is Lauren Sinnott. She's
[22:39] Speaker 2: a historian who lives in Point Arena, California. Her post
[22:44] Speaker 2: went viral. She said, I've learned a lot in the
[22:47] Speaker 2: last few days about the LA fires and why this
[22:50] Speaker 2: is happening. Local LA media and some of my MSNBC
[22:54] Speaker 2: news shows have been really informative. Laurence O'Donnell has a
[22:58] Speaker 2: home in LA and he gave an impassion presentation tonight
[23:02] Speaker 2: for the scientific specifics and especially good sources. Daniel Swain
[23:07] Speaker 2: the UCLA climatologist. You can find him at weatherwest dot
[23:12] Speaker 2: com and on social media. What is happening in LA
[23:16] Speaker 2: is to fire as a blizzard is to snow, as
[23:20] Speaker 2: a hurricane is to rain. This is all about the
[23:25] Speaker 2: wind and the California climate and climate change. Number one,
[23:30] Speaker 2: A lot of people who don't live here also don't
[23:33] Speaker 2: understand the Mediterranean climate. For six months of the year,
[23:37] Speaker 2: we do not have rain. This can create very dry conditions.
[23:42] Speaker 2: The other six months should contain significant amounts of rain.
[23:47] Speaker 2: Number two. The vegetation around La is brushy with smaller trees.
[23:53] Speaker 2: During our six months without rain, this vegetation becomes very dry,
[23:58] Speaker 2: even if and especially when there has been a lot
[24:01] Speaker 2: of rain in the preceding winter. A lot of rain
[24:04] Speaker 2: makes the vegetation grow. Then in the summer it all
[24:08] Speaker 2: dries out. That happened during the last couple of years,
[24:11] Speaker 2: so there's a lot of fuel for fire, and it
[24:14] Speaker 2: doesn't stay moist and shady as in a tall, dense
[24:18] Speaker 2: redwood forest or in a Midwestern or Eastern forest where
[24:22] Speaker 2: rain occurs during the summer. In southern California, it all
[24:27] Speaker 2: just dries out every summer, no matter how much rain
[24:31] Speaker 2: came in the preceding winter. Number three. For most of
[24:35] Speaker 2: the year, coastal California gets a lot of moisture laden
[24:38] Speaker 2: cool wind coming from the Pacific Ocean and blowing onto
[24:43] Speaker 2: the land. However, that changes during part of the year
[24:47] Speaker 2: in southern California, typically from October to January. This is
[24:53] Speaker 2: when the Santa Ana winds blow in the other direction.
[24:57] Speaker 2: The Santa Ana winds are what is creating the situation.
[25:01] Speaker 2: These are high dry winds coming from California's inland desert
[25:06] Speaker 2: areas blowing out toward the sea. Number four. What can
[25:12] Speaker 2: help prevent catastrophic fires is the fact that typically by
[25:16] Speaker 2: the time the Santa Ana winds start, the dry half
[25:20] Speaker 2: of the year is ending and rains come. That is
[25:24] Speaker 2: happening less consistently now. When the long dry season extends
[25:29] Speaker 2: into October and November and December, as has happened in
[25:34] Speaker 2: southern California this year, all of that voluminous dry vegetation
[25:39] Speaker 2: from the previous wet years is overlapping with the Santa
[25:43] Speaker 2: Ana winds. This is a recipe for disaster number five.
[25:49] Speaker 2: When winds blow at these high speeds with gusts up
[25:52] Speaker 2: to one hundred miles an hour, as happened in La
[25:56] Speaker 2: on Tuesday, fire is inevitable and can be stopped. Planes
[26:02] Speaker 2: and helicopters cannot fly to drop water or retardant from
[26:06] Speaker 2: the air, Sparks and embers will be blasted across even
[26:10] Speaker 2: an extensive, densely built urban area. Fires on that wind
[26:15] Speaker 2: are like a blowtorch and can't be stopped. Number six.
[26:21] Speaker 2: Only when the wind dies down can effective firefighting happen,
[26:25] Speaker 2: and even then the wind can return. This is what
[26:28] Speaker 2: firefighters and residents are battling in LA right now. This
[26:33] Speaker 2: is how entire neighborhoods can be burned in one night,
[26:37] Speaker 2: in multiple locations, creating conditions firefighters can't stop, can only
[26:43] Speaker 2: suppress until the conditions change, like waiting out a hurricane,
[26:48] Speaker 2: a hurricane of fire. And there's a PostScript, and I'm
[26:53] Speaker 2: going to take the time to read it for you.
[26:55] Speaker 2: The water for LA comes from local ground water and
[26:59] Speaker 2: three big areas, the southern Coastal Mountains via the California Aqueduct,
[27:05] Speaker 2: the Sierra Nevadas via the La Aqueduct, and the Rocky
[27:09] Speaker 2: Mountains via the Colorado River Aqueduct. The Pacific Palisades is
[27:14] Speaker 2: fed by a thirty six inch line that flows by
[27:18] Speaker 2: gravity from the Stone Canyon Reservoir, itself supplied by the
[27:24] Speaker 2: LA Aqueduct. The larger lower Stone Canyon Reservoir has a
[27:28] Speaker 2: capacity of three point three eight billion gallons, and together
[27:33] Speaker 2: the reservoirs operated by the Los Angeles Department of Water
[27:37] Speaker 2: and Power have a capacity of four point one billion gallons.
[27:42] Speaker 2: Because of the abundant rainfall during the two previous winters.
[27:46] Speaker 2: The reservoirs were full except for one, the one hundred
[27:51] Speaker 2: and seventeen million gallons Santa Ynez Reservoir, which had been
[27:55] Speaker 2: closed months earlier for repair. Its capacity of the total
[28:00] Speaker 2: is two point eighty five percent. Officials say it may
[28:04] Speaker 2: have helped to some extent with a pressure issue had
[28:06] Speaker 2: it been online, but not enough to make a difference.
[28:10] Speaker 2: The horrible circumstance of fire hydrants not producing sufficient water
[28:15] Speaker 2: is sometimes happening, but not because there is not enough
[28:18] Speaker 2: water stored. The two previous winters brought a good amount
[28:22] Speaker 2: of rain. Major reservoirs are full, but the water must
[28:26] Speaker 2: be accessed. The pipes that bring water into neighborhoods scale
[28:30] Speaker 2: down from max size into systems that often involve smaller
[28:34] Speaker 2: tanks and basins that must be pumped full at times.
[28:38] Speaker 2: Electricity has been turned off in many areas, and electricity
[28:43] Speaker 2: powers the system that keeps the water pressurized. It's an
[28:48] Speaker 2: issue of lack of pressure, not lack of water, and
[28:52] Speaker 2: aircraft that can scoop up water even from the ocean
[28:56] Speaker 2: can't fly in heavy winds. Basically, municipal water systems are
[29:01] Speaker 2: designed to fight more limited fires in a house or
[29:05] Speaker 2: a block. These are raging wildfires brought into the city
[29:10] Speaker 2: where they normally wouldn't occur by the wind. I ran
[29:15] Speaker 2: this by some geologists and of course some resident friends
[29:18] Speaker 2: of mine in California, and they said, yeah, these things
[29:22] Speaker 2: check out. I found it quite impressive. Joe Rogan and
[29:26] Speaker 2: Mel Gibson apparently oblivious, as they both obviously are, about
[29:32] Speaker 2: the Jesus Story, the Bible, and Christianity, the entire religion.
[29:37] Speaker 2: Joe Rogan asking Mel Gibson about the upcoming sequel to
[29:42] Speaker 2: the Passion of the Christ, So.
[29:44] Speaker 9: Are you doing this with historians as well? You're trying
[29:47] Speaker 9: to make it young.
[29:48] Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, historical stuff.
[29:49] Speaker 4: Well, I regard the Gospels as history.
[29:52] Speaker 8: It's a verifiable history.
[29:53] Speaker 4: Some people say, oh, it's a fairy tale, he never exists,
[29:56] Speaker 4: but he did. And there are other accounts, verifying historical
[30:00] Speaker 4: accounts outside the biblical ones that also bear this up
[30:04] Speaker 4: that yes, he did exist.
[30:06] Speaker 8: And the other aspect of that is that the all.
[30:11] Speaker 4: The evangelists, the apostles who went out there, every single
[30:16] Speaker 4: one of those guys died rather than deny their belief.
[30:21] Speaker 4: And nobody dies for a lie.
[30:23] Speaker 8: Nobody.
[30:25] Speaker 4: So that's part of what I'm doing. It's like showing
[30:29] Speaker 4: nobody dies for a lie.
[30:31] Speaker 2: Okay, all of those things are untrue. I mean, was
[30:36] Speaker 2: there a guy named Jesus? Very possibly, But the first
[30:41] Speaker 2: reference outside the Bible to Jesus was what Josephus in
[30:46] Speaker 2: the Antiquities we're talking about roughly seventy years after the
[30:51] Speaker 2: alleged cracive fixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the
[30:55] Speaker 2: whole Well, they wouldn't have died for a lie. Thing
[30:58] Speaker 2: references what could be fictional characters in the story. So
[31:03] Speaker 2: you know, oh yeah, Matthew, Mark Luke and John Yeah,
[31:06] Speaker 2: they died in the story, Which means, what if you're
[31:09] Speaker 2: right about a character that dies, that makes the character
[31:12] Speaker 2: am the story real? It's such lazy non reasoning. And
[31:17] Speaker 2: of course Joe Rogan is just sitting over there looking
[31:19] Speaker 2: like a piece of awestruck furniture, going.
[31:22] Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, Well, the resurrection is the one that is
[31:26] Speaker 9: the most difficult for people to swallow. Yes, this is
[31:30] Speaker 9: the one that requires the most.
[31:32] Speaker 4: Faith, the most faith in the most belief. Yeah resurrection. Yeah,
[31:36] Speaker 4: who gets back up three days later after he gets
[31:39] Speaker 4: murdered in public?
[31:41] Speaker 8: Who gets back up under his own power? Buddha didn't
[31:45] Speaker 8: do that shit.
[31:46] Speaker 9: Right, you know, so you believe that was a real event, Yeah,
[31:51] Speaker 9: I do. Yeah, what brought you to that belief? Is
[31:54] Speaker 9: this something you've always had or is it something you
[31:57] Speaker 9: studied it and you've come to this conclusion because the
[32:00] Speaker 9: historical accounts?
[32:01] Speaker 4: And yes, I think as a child, you know, one
[32:06] Speaker 4: accepts things on faith because you know, you're raised by
[32:08] Speaker 4: people who are nice to you and they believe it.
[32:11] Speaker 4: And my dad was a pretty smart guy. And I
[32:13] Speaker 4: still have that faith. But as I got older, I
[32:17] Speaker 4: came to it through intellect and through reading and putting
[32:20] Speaker 4: things together in accounts.
[32:22] Speaker 8: And then occurrence is like in my own life, you know.
[32:26] Speaker 4: I mean, just recently they've verified the Shroud of Turin.
[32:29] Speaker 8: Have you seen that.
[32:30] Speaker 9: I've been reading about it, and I know that there's
[32:33] Speaker 9: some contention, there's some some discussion and debate about it.
[32:36] Speaker 9: But they used to think that it was only a
[32:39] Speaker 9: couple hundred years old. Yeah, and now they've changed that.
[32:43] Speaker 8: Yeah, they've said no, it's back then.
[32:44] Speaker 9: They also don't understand how it was made, which to
[32:47] Speaker 9: me is very fascinating because it's not paint, it's not
[32:51] Speaker 9: they don't know what caused the image itself, and how
[32:54] Speaker 9: that technology would have even been available. It wasn't a
[32:58] Speaker 9: couple thousand.
[32:59] Speaker 4: Years ago an intense light i mean atomic to leave
[33:04] Speaker 4: almost like a photographic imprint on a piece of cloth.
[33:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm I'm sorry.
[33:10] Speaker 6: The Shroud of Turin. You gotta be shitting me, right,
[33:17] Speaker 6: The Shroud of Turin has it's like flat Earth. It
[33:21] Speaker 6: has been debunked for so long that very few people
[33:24] Speaker 6: even talk about it anymore.
[33:27] Speaker 2: Where was it dated like the early or wait, the
[33:30] Speaker 2: late fourteenth century. Even bishops and priests in the Catholic
[33:35] Speaker 2: Church we're talking about how it's a bunch of crap.
[33:37] Speaker 2: It was a sleight of hands. You know, this wasn't
[33:40] Speaker 2: the actual shroud that Jesus was entombed in. I mean,
[33:45] Speaker 2: if the Roman Catholic Church says it's fake and that's
[33:49] Speaker 2: the official position, and mel Gibson identifies as a Catholic,
[33:54] Speaker 2: why are we talking about the Shroud of Turin? And again,
[33:57] Speaker 2: Joe Rogan is just sitting over there kind of nodding
[33:59] Speaker 2: and smiling like a bobblehead.
[34:01] Speaker 9: It's wild. Pull that up, pull the shroud to turn up.
[34:04] Speaker 9: Oh yeah, it's wild to look at because it's it's
[34:06] Speaker 9: so interesting.
[34:07] Speaker 4: Yeah, and you can see it that it depicts a
[34:12] Speaker 4: first century Hebrew male because the hairstyle was from the
[34:15] Speaker 4: first century and a Hebrew hairstyle. That he was about
[34:19] Speaker 4: six feet tall, that he was completely scourged all over
[34:22] Speaker 4: his body, he was crucified.
[34:27] Speaker 9: The one on the left is the one on the
[34:28] Speaker 9: right is just like an artistic rendition.
[34:31] Speaker 2: That's the face.
[34:31] Speaker 9: Yeah, click on that one, the face, the face. Yeah,
[34:34] Speaker 9: that's good enough. Get that large. That's fucking crazy. Yeah, yeah,
[34:38] Speaker 9: what is the latest on that, Jammy? Can you see?
[34:41] Speaker 9: Like I was trying to get that two different articles
[34:45] Speaker 9: from within the last six.
[34:46] Speaker 4: Months, opposite of course, didn't know which one sounded the
[34:50] Speaker 4: most accurate.
[34:51] Speaker 9: Well, it's such a crazy thing to even try to verify.
[34:56] Speaker 9: What are you, like, what are you saying. You're saying
[34:58] Speaker 9: that this is really the shroud that Jesus was covered in.
[35:01] Speaker 9: So you're saying Jesus historically absolutely did exist, and we
[35:06] Speaker 9: think that this is the shroud that covered them. Just
[35:08] Speaker 9: that alone, people incredulity. People's immediately they're their hackles raise
[35:14] Speaker 9: like wait a minute, wait, wait a minute, and they're
[35:16] Speaker 9: just instead of like looking at it, objectively. They don't
[35:19] Speaker 9: almost always want to look at it from a point
[35:21] Speaker 9: of view of disproving it immediately, dismissing it immediately.
[35:24] Speaker 4: But that's you know, that's science, isn't it. You have
[35:26] Speaker 4: to say, you know, you play the devil's advocate.
[35:29] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, somebody explained to these two people how science
[35:33] Speaker 2: actually works. Hey, so and so, bring up an image
[35:37] Speaker 2: and put it on the screen. Let's take a look
[35:38] Speaker 2: at it. Wow, that's really impressive. So much mystery. Well,
[35:43] Speaker 2: you know, those scientists are off like skeptical. That's what
[35:48] Speaker 2: scientists are supposed to be. And then you go and
[35:51] Speaker 2: you test and you retest and you're verifying your peer review.
[35:54] Speaker 2: And you know what I'm saying, the way these people
[35:57] Speaker 2: treat quote unquote facts, I don't care if he's a
[36:01] Speaker 2: nice guy or whatever. In real life, Joe Rogan is
[36:03] Speaker 2: one of the dumbest dudes on the planet. And the
[36:07] Speaker 2: fact that he is so widely popular, to me, it
[36:09] Speaker 2: blows my mind. The fact that people get their data
[36:14] Speaker 2: or whatever you want to call it, from the Joe
[36:16] Speaker 2: Rogan Show. They learn about the world. They're learning about
[36:20] Speaker 2: the world from Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson. Somebody somebody,
[36:25] Speaker 2: I need a tranquilizer.
[36:27] Speaker 9: Are you aware of Graham Hancock. Oh?
[36:29] Speaker 5: No.
[36:29] Speaker 9: Graham Hancock is a sort of a historian that has
[36:34] Speaker 9: a very uh he's got a series on Netflix. He's
[36:37] Speaker 9: a fascinating guy and his career started because he was
[36:42] Speaker 9: investigating this, these accounts in Ethiopia of the Ark of
[36:48] Speaker 9: the Covenant and that they believe the Ark of the
[36:50] Speaker 9: Covenant is in this one church that's protected by all
[36:54] Speaker 9: these monks that wind up getting cataracts and radiation disease
[36:58] Speaker 9: and sickness, and they think that it's because they're protecting
[37:02] Speaker 9: this Arc of the Covenant, this actual thing, that it's
[37:05] Speaker 9: an actual physical thing that's there.
[37:07] Speaker 8: And if you touch it you get example to you.
[37:09] Speaker 9: Yeah, and that even being in its presence fucks these
[37:12] Speaker 9: people up.
[37:12] Speaker 8: Maybe maybe.
[37:20] Speaker 6: Joe Rogan with a straight face, is invoking pseudo scientists
[37:26] Speaker 6: and host of Angent Apocalypse.
[37:29] Speaker 2: On Netflix, Gram Hancock. Now, let me give you just
[37:33] Speaker 2: a little bit of background on Graham Hancock, because he's
[37:37] Speaker 2: a piece of work. He believes this. The world suffered
[37:42] Speaker 2: a massive ecological disaster after comets struck the Earth about
[37:47] Speaker 2: thirteen thousand years ago, Okay, and during those supposed impacts.
[37:53] Speaker 2: There was floods and temperature drops and climate craziness and
[37:57] Speaker 2: all kinds of geological term that cause civilizations to just disappear,
[38:03] Speaker 2: civilizations that you and I don't know about and that
[38:07] Speaker 2: our historians refuse to acknowledge. One of those civilizations is
[38:13] Speaker 2: and I shit you not, the Lost City of Atlantis.
[38:20] Speaker 2: And according to Hancock, it is the Lost City of
[38:24] Speaker 2: Atlantis or the survivors from that helped to introduce everything
[38:28] Speaker 2: from agriculture, architecture, astronomy, art, math, and basic civilization to
[38:35] Speaker 2: hunter gatherers who could then evolve into the human beings
[38:39] Speaker 2: that you and I see today. It's all because of
[38:42] Speaker 2: the Lost City of Atlantis. So now Joe Rogan is
[38:46] Speaker 2: using this man as his source on the Arc of
[38:49] Speaker 2: the Covenant. This stems back to a book that was
[38:51] Speaker 2: published in nineteen ninety two called The Sign and the Seal,
[38:54] Speaker 2: The Quest for the Lost Arc of the Covenant, and
[39:00] Speaker 2: historians and geologists and archaeologists have examined his claims, and
[39:08] Speaker 2: I would suspect they are still laughing their asses off.
[39:12] Speaker 2: I mean, this is just wacky, wacky stuff. And Joe
[39:16] Speaker 2: Rogan is like, well, you know, they think it might
[39:19] Speaker 2: be buried in a church somewhere, and the evidence is
[39:23] Speaker 2: that people around seem to be getting strangely sick. You
[39:28] Speaker 2: and I are thinking, oh, people get sick. Maybe there's
[39:31] Speaker 2: a bad ground water pollution in the air of virus.
[39:35] Speaker 2: Joe Rogan says, maybe it's the arc of the Covenant.
[39:41] Speaker 2: Dare I play even more examples from the Joe Rogan
[39:45] Speaker 2: Mel Gibson interview. Oh yes, I will we continue next.
[39:56] Speaker 2: I think about all of the most popular podcasters, communicators, entertainers,
[40:01] Speaker 2: people on this world who have become household names that
[40:04] Speaker 2: we have showered with influence and wealth. When I look
[40:09] Speaker 2: at Joe Rogan and I think why we're talking about
[40:14] Speaker 2: Rogan again, Because he had Mel Gibson on his broadcast
[40:19] Speaker 2: just a few days ago. Mel was addressing his alcoholism
[40:25] Speaker 2: and some of the mistakes of his past. He was
[40:27] Speaker 2: speaking in the context of forgiveness from God.
[40:31] Speaker 4: You have to be able to accuse yourself and understand
[40:38] Speaker 4: that there is it's a great deal of mercy involved
[40:40] Speaker 4: in the fact that I believe that God sent his
[40:46] Speaker 4: son down to tell us, Okay, I'm going to ransom
[40:50] Speaker 4: you people from your fallen nature, and I'll give you
[40:54] Speaker 4: a roadmap on how to do it. It's an interesting
[40:58] Speaker 4: fact to note that the first canonized saint, you know
[41:04] Speaker 4: who it was the first ever confirmed canonization.
[41:07] Speaker 8: As a saint.
[41:08] Speaker 4: He was Dismiss. You know who Dismiss was. No, he
[41:12] Speaker 4: was hanging. He was the thief on the cross next
[41:14] Speaker 4: to Jesus, and he says to him, you're gonna be
[41:18] Speaker 4: okay this day, you'll be with me. I'm baptized, criminal
[41:24] Speaker 4: all that stuff.
[41:25] Speaker 2: So wow, okay, I guess he was speaking colloquially or something.
[41:30] Speaker 2: The first canonized saint was sainted by Pope John the
[41:36] Speaker 2: fifteenth That was in nine to ninety three CE, Saint
[41:41] Speaker 2: Ulrich of Augsburg. It wasn't a guy named Dismiss who
[41:49] Speaker 2: was hanged, Like, how do you know his name? And
[41:52] Speaker 2: why is his name Dismiss?
[41:54] Speaker 5: Oh?
[41:54] Speaker 2: Lookie. Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson want to talk about evolution.
[42:01] Speaker 9: What are your thoughts on evolution?
[42:03] Speaker 4: M hm, wow, eh, the Darwin thing.
[42:12] Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't really go for it.
[42:15] Speaker 4: No, Yeah, I say age dinosaurs. You know what did
[42:20] Speaker 4: they turn into? I mean things became extinct at some point.
[42:25] Speaker 4: I don't think I was some kind of like, you know,
[42:30] Speaker 4: legless thing that crawled out of the ocean.
[42:32] Speaker 8: I don't think I came from that. I think I
[42:34] Speaker 8: was created.
[42:36] Speaker 9: Do you think other things were legless things that came
[42:39] Speaker 9: out of the ocean. Do you think, like multi celled
[42:42] Speaker 9: organisms came out of single celled organisms and there was
[42:45] Speaker 9: some sort of a natural selection and random mutation and
[42:50] Speaker 9: it led to everything else but us.
[42:52] Speaker 4: Sure, look a gain of function, right, you can like
[42:57] Speaker 4: you can make stuff happen, and I'm sure stuff did happen.
[43:01] Speaker 8: But I think it's all part of creation. I think
[43:04] Speaker 8: it's all ordered.
[43:05] Speaker 4: I think anyone left anything left to itself without some
[43:08] Speaker 4: kind of intelligence behind it will devolve into chaos, and
[43:13] Speaker 4: so that there has to be some big intelligence that
[43:15] Speaker 4: orchestrates everything. Not that we don't have chaos in the world,
[43:19] Speaker 4: but I think that's our own making. Yeah, I'm just
[43:21] Speaker 4: not totally convinced. I feel it, and I can't really.
[43:25] Speaker 8: I'm sorry. I can't intellectually tell.
[43:27] Speaker 4: You why I don't believe an evolution, but I don't.
[43:31] Speaker 4: It's just a feeling. I don't think I was some
[43:33] Speaker 4: ape or. I don't think my ancestors were. I think
[43:37] Speaker 4: they had to be pretty smart to survive.
[43:39] Speaker 9: So what do you think all these pre human hominids
[43:41] Speaker 9: are that they keep discovering.
[43:44] Speaker 8: Like, tell me what a prehuman hominy.
[43:46] Speaker 9: Like australiapithet is or some of the other human like
[43:50] Speaker 9: creatures that never made it, like Denisovan's neantals.
[43:54] Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, stuff like that.
[43:55] Speaker 4: Okay, Well, they've got something called zynganthropists, you remember him,
[43:59] Speaker 4: no zinganthropist man, and he was like.
[44:02] Speaker 8: He look kind of like this, but he was like.
[44:04] Speaker 4: They looked at it and they did some core samples
[44:07] Speaker 4: on it, and it was put out there by people
[44:11] Speaker 4: advocating evolution, and they discovered that it was a human
[44:14] Speaker 4: skull attached to the jaw of an ape.
[44:17] Speaker 9: Oh I do remember?
[44:18] Speaker 8: So it was a hop Yeah.
[44:19] Speaker 9: There's been some hoaxes, yeah, yeah, but there's also been
[44:23] Speaker 9: real stuff.
[44:24] Speaker 2: Really yeah, ah, somebody fakes something once. So no, no, no,
[44:29] Speaker 2: the conversation continues and it just doesn't get any better.
[44:32] Speaker 2: But I got to play this. Here we go.
[44:33] Speaker 9: You know, Australia pithecus. There's a bunch of different you know,
[44:38] Speaker 9: the Lucy skeleton, there's a bunch of different pre human hominids.
[44:42] Speaker 8: Yeah, maybe there were monkeys, I don't know.
[44:44] Speaker 9: Yeah, well there was they're similar to us, just not
[44:47] Speaker 9: where we are. They're on the road to becoming what
[44:50] Speaker 9: it means to be a human being.
[44:52] Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
[44:53] Speaker 9: What do you think those are?
[44:54] Speaker 4: I don't know. They could be animals, or they could
[44:58] Speaker 4: be like look at today, I mean, you can get
[44:59] Speaker 4: some skido can bite you, and your kid can be
[45:02] Speaker 4: born with a malformed skull or something.
[45:04] Speaker 8: It's like, you know, they have those, you know.
[45:07] Speaker 9: Yeah, but this is like a like a genetic thing
[45:11] Speaker 9: like they've done, They've mapped the genome of these creatures.
[45:14] Speaker 8: They're different.
[45:15] Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I don't know how to explain those, Joe,
[45:19] Speaker 4: I don't know.
[45:20] Speaker 9: But but you do think that human beings were created
[45:23] Speaker 9: by God?
[45:24] Speaker 8: I do.
[45:25] Speaker 9: When do you think that happened?
[45:27] Speaker 8: When?
[45:28] Speaker 4: Probably and not that long ago?
[45:31] Speaker 8: Really?
[45:31] Speaker 9: No, not really, Like what do you mean by not
[45:33] Speaker 9: that long ago?
[45:34] Speaker 4: Probably only about eight thousand years ago?
[45:37] Speaker 9: Really? Yeah, So what do you think things like go
[45:39] Speaker 9: Beckley tape are when they find these constructions that are
[45:43] Speaker 9: dated carbon dated to eleven thousand plus years old?
[45:46] Speaker 4: I question carbon dating?
[45:48] Speaker 9: Really, Yeah, that's a lot simpler.
[45:52] Speaker 4: Well, yeah, they they're Yeah, there's a lot of money
[45:54] Speaker 4: in in you know, claims and.
[45:58] Speaker 2: Okay, I took kind of a bunny traggler. Earlier in
[46:00] Speaker 2: the show, Ryan, we spend ten twelve fifteen minutes talking
[46:03] Speaker 2: about climate change, and because this is a podcast with
[46:08] Speaker 2: no rules, where we make the rules. So I'm going
[46:10] Speaker 2: to take another detour and spend I don't know, ten
[46:13] Speaker 2: fifteen minutes doing what mel Gibson did not do. I'm
[46:18] Speaker 2: going to talk to everybody's favorite palaeontologist, host of the
[46:22] Speaker 2: Gutzig Gibbon Channel, Eric, Thanks for being here. What do
[46:27] Speaker 2: you think about this, this fake fossil disproving evolution?
[46:32] Speaker 10: Well, this is you know, this is a this is
[46:34] Speaker 10: this is a classic, right, like this is a card
[46:36] Speaker 10: that gets pulled. It's like I was covering Doug Wilson
[46:39] Speaker 10: a couple of weeks, a couple of months ago now
[46:41] Speaker 10: and the sort of hoax of this particular specimen, which
[46:45] Speaker 10: we'll talk about in a minute, because there's some issues
[46:47] Speaker 10: with even how Melkison brings it to the table. Shocking,
[46:51] Speaker 10: I know, but this is like a this is your
[46:53] Speaker 10: starter deck, This is your creationist starter deck argument saying
[46:56] Speaker 10: that all of human evolution is invaludated because of a hoax,
[46:59] Speaker 10: of a single hoax when people bring it up. I
[47:02] Speaker 10: tend to just say, okay, like, if you're going to
[47:05] Speaker 10: say that a hoax within a field invalidates that field,
[47:09] Speaker 10: we don't have any fields left. And in fact, I'm
[47:12] Speaker 10: going to gesture madly to Biblical antiquity, which is notorious
[47:17] Speaker 10: for having people faking ancient artifacts, you know, from the
[47:20] Speaker 10: body parts of the Apostles or Marry to the shroud
[47:24] Speaker 10: of Turin, to the Ark of the Covenant that the
[47:27] Speaker 10: Ethiopians say that they have. I don't think that mel
[47:30] Speaker 10: Gibson would agree that the Ethiopians have the Ark of
[47:32] Speaker 10: the Covenant, and yet that wouldn't invalidate his faith, would it.
[47:36] Speaker 10: It is selectively weaponized to discount things that he finds uncomfortable.
[47:42] Speaker 10: Now the hoax in question he gets wrong. Shocking, What
[47:46] Speaker 10: how is that possible? Mel Gibson not being an expert
[47:48] Speaker 10: on the stuff that he talks that he chooses to
[47:50] Speaker 10: talk about. On Joe Rogan, I wish I had the confidence.
[47:54] Speaker 2: I take it. You're not a Rogan fan.
[47:57] Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm not a Rogan fan.
[48:00] Speaker 2: Can say it, you can say it.
[48:01] Speaker 4: Come on, yes, I'm not.
[48:03] Speaker 10: A Rogan fan. And you know it sucks because originally
[48:07] Speaker 10: me and Joe we united on our love for chimpanzees.
[48:10] Speaker 10: Joe loves chimps. He loves talking about how crazy chimps
[48:13] Speaker 10: are and how cool they are and how like us
[48:14] Speaker 10: they are. And I can meet in the middle with
[48:16] Speaker 10: him on that for sure, not even meet in the middle.
[48:18] Speaker 10: I'm fully on his side love chimps. But the problem
[48:20] Speaker 10: with Joe Rogan is that he he takes every conspiracy
[48:24] Speaker 10: theory and really every position of every guest that he
[48:27] Speaker 10: has on the show, hook line and sinker, and he
[48:30] Speaker 10: does exactly zero research for anything prior to having people on,
[48:34] Speaker 10: and he picks the things that he chooses to believe
[48:38] Speaker 10: exclusively based on vibes. In my opinion, he uses the
[48:42] Speaker 10: rule of cool to decide what to believe about the
[48:44] Speaker 10: world like and reality, which I find disconcerting. And this
[48:49] Speaker 10: kind of stuff has consequences. I'm sure you know that
[48:51] Speaker 10: Graham Hannacock was on Joe Rogan's show a while background Hancock,
[48:55] Speaker 10: he's a big Atlantis guy, you know, believes that these
[48:59] Speaker 10: ancient civilists had this technology that's just incomprehensible to today,
[49:03] Speaker 10: and it's been lost to us that civilization extends far
[49:06] Speaker 10: deeper into the past than what legitimate archaeology seems to suggest.
[49:10] Speaker 10: And he had a debate with a friend of mine,
[49:12] Speaker 10: Flint Nibble on Joe Rogan a couple of months ago
[49:15] Speaker 10: quh like a year ago now, and Flint absolutely curbs
[49:18] Speaker 10: domed Graham, right because Flint is an actual archaeologist and
[49:21] Speaker 10: he does this work every day, and he was nice
[49:25] Speaker 10: about it, right, Like Flint was not rude or dismissive
[49:28] Speaker 10: or whatever, Like he entertained everything that that Handcock had
[49:30] Speaker 10: to say, but you know, he'd put him down. And
[49:34] Speaker 10: Joe Rogan's audience even recognized that this went completely in
[49:37] Speaker 10: Flint's favor. So in response to this, Joe Rogan the
[49:41] Speaker 10: you know, less amicable of Joe Rogan's fans, and then
[49:44] Speaker 10: all of Graham Hancock's fans, which I don't know if
[49:46] Speaker 10: you know this, but the ancient Aliens, the Atlantis, the
[49:49] Speaker 10: race realist guys, those folks that fandom if you will,
[49:52] Speaker 10: they're absolutely relentless, like they will ruin your life if
[49:55] Speaker 10: they can, using social media doc saying like everything. So
[49:59] Speaker 10: they he did like a targeted harassment campaign against Flint
[50:02] Speaker 10: that carries on to this day and was exacerbated by
[50:05] Speaker 10: the fact that Joe, because he didn't like the idea
[50:07] Speaker 10: of that Atlantis not being real, decided to have Graham
[50:10] Speaker 10: Hancock back on the show, not invite Flint dibble and
[50:14] Speaker 10: basically reignite and call Flint a liar on the show
[50:18] Speaker 10: in so many words, with he's not even there to
[50:20] Speaker 10: defend himself. Right, first of all, he's not lying, but
[50:22] Speaker 10: second of all, he's not even there to defend himself.
[50:24] Speaker 10: It is really a poor showing in my opinion, especially
[50:27] Speaker 10: for somebody like Joe Rogan, who stands as if he's
[50:30] Speaker 10: like this, this sort of beacon of like I'm an everyman.
[50:32] Speaker 10: You know, everybody gets to have a voice.
[50:34] Speaker 11: And it rubs me the wrong way that the guy
[50:36] Speaker 11: that you like lost the debate and so you have
[50:38] Speaker 11: a rematch, but there's only one of the two parties there.
[50:41] Speaker 11: I don't like that hashtag Joe Rogan just wants to
[50:45] Speaker 11: have conversations doesn't work for me. It's interesting me either, Right,
[50:50] Speaker 11: A conversation usually has more than one person, and usually
[50:53] Speaker 11: you're having a conversation. He likes to say that he
[50:55] Speaker 11: has these conversations with people who disagree with him, and
[50:58] Speaker 11: you know, moving back to the smell, Gibson thing he
[51:00] Speaker 11: does disagree with mal like. To his credit, I have
[51:02] Speaker 11: seen Joe Rogan stand up for what he believes in
[51:06] Speaker 11: in opposition to his opponent on the show twice. Once
[51:09] Speaker 11: was with Tucker Carlson when Tucker Carlson evolution was fake,
[51:12] Speaker 11: and once was with Mel Gibson when Mel Gibson says
[51:15] Speaker 11: evolution is fake. So we'll give him a single point
[51:17] Speaker 11: for that, but that's not going to be enough for
[51:19] Speaker 11: me to overturn the rest of the damage that he's
[51:22] Speaker 11: done to this. I'll say it to the scientific literacy
[51:26] Speaker 11: of this nation.
[51:27] Speaker 10: I like, I do believe Seth that that we've reached
[51:30] Speaker 10: a point where it's like, you know, there's an old
[51:32] Speaker 10: joke twenty thirty years ago or whatever where people are like, yeah,
[51:36] Speaker 10: we're we're discussing climate change, right, we have a PhD
[51:38] Speaker 10: scientist here, and then we also have like cousin Joe
[51:40] Speaker 10: from down the road, and we're going to give them
[51:42] Speaker 10: equal time. And it's like that was the joke and
[51:45] Speaker 10: that they're using that as the rubric for how to
[51:47] Speaker 10: have these conversations now on places like Fox and places
[51:51] Speaker 10: like Joe Rogan, who had Karence Howard the guy who
[51:55] Speaker 10: says one times one is two multiple times on the show.
[52:00] Speaker 10: He's been on there more than once.
[52:02] Speaker 2: Like the actor Tarren Toward say that he had some
[52:05] Speaker 2: sort of a like magical brain power and he could
[52:08] Speaker 2: like move objects and shit, I mean the guy.
[52:10] Speaker 10: Is just the guy is bananas, man. I mean he yeah,
[52:13] Speaker 10: he thinks that he started being conscious in his mother's womb.
[52:17] Speaker 10: The guy's office rocker.
[52:19] Speaker 2: But you say that Joe Rogan pushes back, and I agree,
[52:23] Speaker 2: But he pushes back in the way where he's like, wow,
[52:26] Speaker 2: well what about But I didn't hear a lot of conviction.
[52:30] Speaker 2: You say that Rogan, to be fair, is actually saying, nah,
[52:34] Speaker 2: that this may not be true, and we need to
[52:36] Speaker 2: give him props for that, you think, I mean, props
[52:38] Speaker 2: may not be the word, Erica.
[52:40] Speaker 10: Really, we can give him props for it in the
[52:43] Speaker 10: same way that we could give gosh, like, let's pick
[52:47] Speaker 10: someone like comically evil just to contrast it, right, Well,
[52:50] Speaker 10: you can give him props for that in the same
[52:51] Speaker 10: way that you could give Hitler props for being an
[52:53] Speaker 10: animal lover. You know, he loved dogs who sweep to
[52:55] Speaker 10: his dogs. It's like, yeah, that's great, but you're also
[52:57] Speaker 10: doing all this other really bad stuff. I am not
[52:59] Speaker 10: in any way saying that this is on that same
[53:01] Speaker 10: level or even in the same stratosphere. But what I
[53:04] Speaker 10: am saying is Brugen has done a lot of He's
[53:06] Speaker 10: had a lot of looney opinions, and he's had a
[53:09] Speaker 10: lot of bad opinions, and he's let a lot of
[53:10] Speaker 10: people who do not know what they're talking about kind
[53:12] Speaker 10: of steamroll them on the show, pushing back one time
[53:16] Speaker 10: out of all of those other times. And as you said,
[53:18] Speaker 10: it's not even really a pushback, it's more like incredulous.
[53:21] Speaker 10: You really don't think evolution is really.
[53:23] Speaker 2: You know, which, no, I look forward to the Graham
[53:26] Speaker 2: Hancock fans saying Erica says that Joe Rogan is like Hitler.
[53:31] Speaker 10: I enjoy them that I'm sure that's going to happen,
[53:34] Speaker 10: which in no way do I think that that is
[53:37] Speaker 10: even a little bit of the case. That's why I said,
[53:39] Speaker 10: comically juxtaposed that we won't care though Graham Hancock fans
[53:42] Speaker 10: are reasonilar to the Robert Sepper fans, which is to
[53:44] Speaker 10: say that they won't listen to what I'm saying. They'll
[53:46] Speaker 10: be like, well, she's a woman, and then they like
[53:49] Speaker 10: to say that I'm Jewish. I'm not Jewish, but they
[53:51] Speaker 10: will say that I'm Jewish, and for those two reasons,
[53:54] Speaker 10: I can't be trusted.
[53:55] Speaker 2: That fits right into the Mel Gibson thing. He's not
[53:58] Speaker 2: a huge fan of the Jewish. Apparently either history is
[54:01] Speaker 2: given any indication. So before I get back to playing
[54:04] Speaker 2: some more, Mel, the fake jawbone thing was a real hoax.
[54:10] Speaker 2: This is an example of somebody who was just lying.
[54:14] Speaker 2: Is that correct?
[54:15] Speaker 10: Yeah, let's dissect this. I'll be as brief as I
[54:18] Speaker 10: can be. So in the early nineteen hundreds, when human
[54:22] Speaker 10: evolution was really coming into full swing, not even full swing,
[54:26] Speaker 10: that's not even the way it was in its burgeoning right, Like,
[54:29] Speaker 10: people were just beginning to start to investigate paleontology, and
[54:32] Speaker 10: in fact, you know, prior to this, Darwin lamented and
[54:34] Speaker 10: on the Origin of Species that the fossil record was
[54:37] Speaker 10: just remarkably incomplete, and the reason for this was because
[54:40] Speaker 10: paleontology wasn't a thing yet. Darwin would live to see
[54:42] Speaker 10: the discovery of archaeopterics and Neanderthals, which was great and
[54:46] Speaker 10: validated his hypothesis. He got to see that and he
[54:48] Speaker 10: was like, you know, check. That's awesome. But compared to
[54:51] Speaker 10: where we were in the nineteen hundreds we had when
[54:55] Speaker 10: Piltdown was discovered, we had about I think it was
[54:58] Speaker 10: like three maybe four hominine we have over twenty five
[55:02] Speaker 10: now if you're being strict. So there's a pretty big
[55:05] Speaker 10: difference between where we were at paleontologically at that time.
[55:09] Speaker 10: So this was proposed by Charles Dawson, not Darwin, but Dawson.
[55:13] Speaker 10: He proposes Piltdown Man as this proof that humans evolved
[55:17] Speaker 10: in Britain, right. He says he discovered it in the UK,
[55:20] Speaker 10: and it's a human skull. It looks it's got some
[55:22] Speaker 10: primitive aspects to it, you know, large canine teeth, kind
[55:25] Speaker 10: of prognaphic like things of that nature. And at the
[55:28] Speaker 10: time people were like, oh okay, like yeah, this, I
[55:30] Speaker 10: guess this checks out kind of and they called the
[55:32] Speaker 10: Piltdown Man. The Piltown Man would be shown to be
[55:36] Speaker 10: a hoax on the part of Charles Dawson in the
[55:38] Speaker 10: nineteen forties, so about thirty years later. And part of
[55:42] Speaker 10: what made that come to light was that several people
[55:46] Speaker 10: were suspicious of it from day one. And the reason
[55:48] Speaker 10: for this was very simple. When the Pilton Man was discovered,
[55:51] Speaker 10: people immediately flocked to the area where it was found
[55:53] Speaker 10: quote unquote found, and they searched there for their entire
[55:56] Speaker 10: lives and found nothing else, not even a tooth. At
[55:59] Speaker 10: that same time, folks like Eugene Dubois had triggered paleoanthropology
[56:03] Speaker 10: being done in Indonesia. Raymond Dart was down in South
[56:07] Speaker 10: Africa and people just kept pulling up hominin bone after
[56:10] Speaker 10: hominin bone after hominin bone, and they started to find
[56:13] Speaker 10: them in ways that was contrasting to what we saw
[56:16] Speaker 10: with Piltdown. Right, So Philton was supposed to be this
[56:18] Speaker 10: early hominin, and they're discovering Australopithecus africanus in South Africa
[56:22] Speaker 10: in the form of Raymond Dart, and he's the one
[56:24] Speaker 10: who sort of named it. And it's got a small
[56:26] Speaker 10: brain but like human like teeth, and it's clearly walking
[56:29] Speaker 10: on two feet, whereas pilt Down looked like the opposite.
[56:32] Speaker 10: It looked like it had a big brain but was
[56:33] Speaker 10: probably like a knuckle walker or whatever. That was what
[56:35] Speaker 10: was proposed that big brains evolved first. In reality, we
[56:38] Speaker 10: know by pedalism evolved first. So anyways, in the nineteen forties,
[56:42] Speaker 10: paleion anthropologists finally get to look a piltdown Man right,
[56:45] Speaker 10: Like they actually get to get it from the folks
[56:47] Speaker 10: who were studying it and get a better look at it,
[56:50] Speaker 10: and they're like, yeah, this is an orangutan jaw and
[56:52] Speaker 10: a human skull and chimpanzee teeth. Make to look as
[56:55] Speaker 10: if it's older than it is. So you hear that
[56:58] Speaker 10: and you're like, oh my God, like that doubt on
[57:00] Speaker 10: every single other fine in paleoanthropology, and the people who
[57:04] Speaker 10: found this hoax thought the same thing. So every single
[57:08] Speaker 10: other find was ridiculously scrutinized to the same degree that
[57:13] Speaker 10: Piltdown was. And everything one held water because the stratigraphy,
[57:19] Speaker 10: in the teponomy and the morphology was all like put
[57:22] Speaker 10: under a microscope to see if this stuff really came
[57:25] Speaker 10: from where people said it was. And then there was
[57:27] Speaker 10: the little fact where we kept pulling them up out
[57:29] Speaker 10: of the ground over and over and over again. So
[57:32] Speaker 10: Piltown Man is, to our knowledge, the only hoax in paleoanthropology,
[57:38] Speaker 10: and it was perpetrated and successfully so for over two decades,
[57:42] Speaker 10: and then people found out. Anthropologists found out, not creationists,
[57:47] Speaker 10: not layman, not people who dug down into the depths
[57:50] Speaker 10: of the secret cabal of anthropology and discovered that they
[57:53] Speaker 10: were they were being lied to, right. It was other anthropologists,
[57:56] Speaker 10: it was other anatomous, it was other biologists, other pealeontologists
[57:59] Speaker 10: who this out. And that's science working as it should.
[58:03] Speaker 10: And as I said earlier, if you want to point
[58:05] Speaker 10: to a hoax and say that in validates a field,
[58:07] Speaker 10: all of paleontology is gone. The amount of dinosaur hoaxes
[58:10] Speaker 10: that have existed, the amount of hoaxes in physics, or
[58:13] Speaker 10: in archaeology or in biblical antiquity, as I said earlier,
[58:18] Speaker 10: is going to invalidate everything, because since the dawn of time,
[58:20] Speaker 10: people have tried to use fakes to elevate their status.
[58:25] Speaker 10: The nice thing about science is that it is quite
[58:27] Speaker 10: literally structured to find those examples and beat those people
[58:31] Speaker 10: down and out of academia so they can stop lying
[58:33] Speaker 10: to people. So now we come to what mel Gibson did.
[58:37] Speaker 10: Mel Gibson references the piltdown, but he calls it something
[58:40] Speaker 10: that is completely different. He doesn't get the hoax right.
[58:44] Speaker 10: He says that zinganthropists was hoaxed.
[58:46] Speaker 9: Seth.
[58:46] Speaker 10: This is a completely different thing that was not a hoax,
[58:50] Speaker 10: that is a legitimate hominin that still stands to this day,
[58:53] Speaker 10: of which we have multiple specimens of it. So the
[58:57] Speaker 10: way this went down is that Leaky's right, famous paleothropologist
[59:01] Speaker 10: Mary and Lewis were in Tanzania, right They're doing their
[59:04] Speaker 10: work at old of I Gorge, really famous site, and
[59:07] Speaker 10: they discovered some previous inklings that there were maybe hominins there.
[59:12] Speaker 10: This was back in the nineteen forties, nineteen fifties, nineteen
[59:14] Speaker 10: sixties that they did a lot of this work there.
[59:16] Speaker 10: So one morning Lewis's is feeling sick, so Mary goes
[59:19] Speaker 10: out there and they're searching around and that's when they
[59:21] Speaker 10: discover this hominin skull a cranium and they look at it.
[59:25] Speaker 10: It's the first primitive looking hominin at that site, and
[59:28] Speaker 10: they're like, well, there's tools at this site and this
[59:31] Speaker 10: hominin is at this site, so I guess this hominin
[59:33] Speaker 10: must have made these tools, right, and it's one of
[59:35] Speaker 10: our first toolmakers. They call it xinganthropists. But very shortly
[59:38] Speaker 10: afterwards they discover Homo habilists at this same site. And
[59:42] Speaker 10: the contrast here is really important because zinganthropists has a
[59:45] Speaker 10: small brain and big teeth, And when they first pulled
[59:48] Speaker 10: it up, everybody was like, do we really think that
[59:50] Speaker 10: an ape with a brain this small was capable of
[59:52] Speaker 10: making these types of tools? That was the question. They
[59:55] Speaker 10: were being scientists and saying is that possible? And then
[59:58] Speaker 10: they discover Homo habilists afterwards, same field season, if memory
[1:00:02] Speaker 10: serves it might have been around that same time, within
[1:00:04] Speaker 10: like a year or something. They pull up Homo habilist,
[1:00:07] Speaker 10: much bigger brain, much more advanced teeth, and they're like, okay,
[1:00:10] Speaker 10: well we have two hominins at this site, one with
[1:00:12] Speaker 10: a big brain, one with a small The bigger one
[1:00:14] Speaker 10: probably made the tools, and so the toolmaker's identity changed
[1:00:17] Speaker 10: from being xinganthropists to being Homo habalyus. Right, so being
[1:00:22] Speaker 10: a member of our genus and xinganthropists eventually would become paranthropists.
[1:00:27] Speaker 10: So Ginganthipis is a defunct name. It's known as paranthropists
[1:00:30] Speaker 10: now because of ic Zen rules. So what mel Gibson
[1:00:34] Speaker 10: did is he took regular science operating as it normally does,
[1:00:38] Speaker 10: where you have a question and you discover an answer
[1:00:41] Speaker 10: to it, and he mistook that example for a separate
[1:00:46] Speaker 10: time where science was also working as it should. Piltdown
[1:00:51] Speaker 10: was like twenty years before even in Gingentthrapis and Paranthrapis
[1:00:54] Speaker 10: and this whole thing at old of I even happened.
[1:00:56] Speaker 10: He swapped them around, doesn't even know that that's what
[1:00:59] Speaker 10: he did. Thinks that the situation with the Zindra turned
[1:01:02] Speaker 10: out to be a hoax when it demonstrably didn't. This
[1:01:05] Speaker 10: is a hominin that still exists to this day that
[1:01:08] Speaker 10: we still teach in class. It has a different name, right,
[1:01:10] Speaker 10: But he just completely botches the entire story. Now, Rogan's
[1:01:15] Speaker 10: not off the hook because he says Australia pithecus in
[1:01:18] Speaker 10: this conversation and can't remember what home on the letty is.
[1:01:21] Speaker 10: Even though this guy is supposed to be interested in
[1:01:24] Speaker 10: this subject, he can't even get the basics right. So
[1:01:26] Speaker 10: you've got two Yahoo's here discussing a topic that they
[1:01:29] Speaker 10: have no business discussing. And I don't say no business
[1:01:32] Speaker 10: discussing because they're not experts. I say no business discussing
[1:01:35] Speaker 10: because they didn't even bother to do a Google search
[1:01:37] Speaker 10: before having this chat.
[1:01:39] Speaker 2: Maybe it was one of the early hominins that was
[1:01:41] Speaker 2: under the shouter of turn you know that was lying
[1:01:43] Speaker 2: under there.
[1:01:44] Speaker 10: Too, or in the ark of the Covenant.
[1:01:46] Speaker 2: I think you could be the Covenant. Yeah, well, you
[1:01:49] Speaker 2: and I could talk for an hour about a lot
[1:01:51] Speaker 2: of this stuff, but I wanted to camp out on
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: mel Gibson's specific claim about the fake and how somehow
[1:01:56] Speaker 2: that disproves all of paleontology and evolutionary biology and human
[1:02:01] Speaker 2: ancestry and everything else. You know, the great philosopher, scientists,
[1:02:04] Speaker 2: the great thinker, mel Gibson is parading around the media
[1:02:08] Speaker 2: beyond Rogan all of these high profile platforms.
[1:02:12] Speaker 10: It's so unbelievably frustrating. And the part that really gets
[1:02:15] Speaker 10: me is that in this clip, mel Gibson says something
[1:02:19] Speaker 10: along the lines of like, yeah, like, I'm not educated
[1:02:22] Speaker 10: in this, I'm not well versed in this. I haven't
[1:02:25] Speaker 10: looked into it, and he straight up says, but I
[1:02:27] Speaker 10: just kind of feel I just kind of feel like
[1:02:30] Speaker 10: it's Lee.
[1:02:31] Speaker 2: Can explain it, Erica, you know, I just I just
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: kind of know in my heart it feels like the kind.
[1:02:37] Speaker 10: Of thing that would be satirized one hundred years ago
[1:02:40] Speaker 10: in a book like how on Earth are we at
[1:02:43] Speaker 10: this point? And these people are as you said this
[1:02:46] Speaker 10: isn't a conversation that someone's having down.
[1:02:48] Speaker 5: At the bar.
[1:02:49] Speaker 10: That's fine, you're allowed to ask questions, you're allowed to
[1:02:51] Speaker 10: chat about this. But when we elevate them to the
[1:02:53] Speaker 10: same level as experts in a field, who are experts
[1:02:56] Speaker 10: for a reason, right we can't all be experts in everything.
[1:03:00] Speaker 10: That's one of the wonders of human society is that
[1:03:01] Speaker 10: we pick roles for people to have, and we all
[1:03:04] Speaker 10: become experts in our given area, and then we rely
[1:03:06] Speaker 10: on the expertise of others in areas that were not experts. Rightly,
[1:03:09] Speaker 10: I don't know anything about my car, which is why
[1:03:11] Speaker 10: I take it to a mechanic. But it's like when
[1:03:14] Speaker 10: you're treating people who have no business talking about the
[1:03:17] Speaker 10: subject at the same level as an expert. Boy, we're
[1:03:21] Speaker 10: hadn't got a dark path?
[1:03:23] Speaker 2: Well. I spoke to an astrophysicist friend of mine, doctor
[1:03:26] Speaker 2: Dan Bancheldor, about multiverse theory, and in my alternate universe,
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: I would air drop you into the Rogan studio at
[1:03:34] Speaker 2: the moment of that conversation, Erica, I would pay one
[1:03:36] Speaker 2: thousand dollars to see that go down.
[1:03:39] Speaker 10: I would love so much. I would love more than
[1:03:43] Speaker 10: anything if I had the opportunity to go into a rogan,
[1:03:45] Speaker 10: I would do it and I would be like, what
[1:03:47] Speaker 10: are I would level with him, you know, I would
[1:03:49] Speaker 10: be like, what are you doing? You know you're your treat?
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like this, you would and I would be
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: there for it. We would kickstart that, we'd fundraise, we
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: could get you, you know, because they do that right.
[1:04:02] Speaker 2: I'll pay you a million dollars if you'll sit down
[1:04:05] Speaker 2: with RFK junior doctor Peter Hotez, which is a whole
[1:04:10] Speaker 2: other conversation. Okay. Our interaction is always a series of digressions, Erica,
[1:04:15] Speaker 2: And that's a good thing, except when I'm trying to
[1:04:17] Speaker 2: focus on the subject and i just want to like
[1:04:20] Speaker 2: keep you for another three hours. But I'm going to
[1:04:22] Speaker 2: let you go and I'm going to get back to
[1:04:23] Speaker 2: profiling the Gibson interview. You and I, I think are
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: going to try to talk again, maybe in a few
[1:04:28] Speaker 2: weeks about the actual evolution of the human animal from
[1:04:32] Speaker 2: earlier ancestors, because you did a speech a while back
[1:04:36] Speaker 2: kind of connecting those dots, because we always say, well,
[1:04:38] Speaker 2: you know, we evolved from lower primates, but we don't
[1:04:42] Speaker 2: know how or why, and the creation is certainly don't
[1:04:44] Speaker 2: know how or why. So I'm going to have you
[1:04:46] Speaker 2: spell it out for us.
[1:04:47] Speaker 10: I'd love that. I'd love to do like a you know,
[1:04:50] Speaker 10: structured in a way that it's like, all right, if
[1:04:52] Speaker 10: you watch this show, you will understand the basics. Like
[1:04:55] Speaker 10: if you watch this show, you will walk away and
[1:04:57] Speaker 10: you will know at least the basics of this subject,
[1:05:02] Speaker 10: which is my dream is that everybody would know the basics.
[1:05:05] Speaker 2: Oh, I send an email out to Mel Gibson's people,
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: maybe he'll join us. Listen in they're saying, hey, here's
[1:05:10] Speaker 2: a link. Mail, here's a link Erica, You're amazing. Thanks
[1:05:14] Speaker 2: for a jumping out of your day to humor me
[1:05:16] Speaker 2: on mail.
[1:05:17] Speaker 10: Okay, it's always my pleasure to talk about this kind
[1:05:19] Speaker 10: of stuff. Set, thanks for having me in.
[1:05:22] Speaker 2: Just second, I'm going to come back to that eight
[1:05:24] Speaker 2: thousand year number for the age of humankind in relation
[1:05:29] Speaker 2: to a fascinating article about something archaeologists dug up in Germany.
[1:05:34] Speaker 2: We continue with more on Mel next. Okay, we're talking
[1:05:43] Speaker 2: about Mel Gibson and all kinds of crazy claims, specifically here.
[1:05:49] Speaker 2: Before I get into the rest, he had referenced his
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: perspective on the age of human kind.
[1:05:57] Speaker 9: But you do think that human beings were created?
[1:06:00] Speaker 2: Thank god, I do.
[1:06:01] Speaker 9: When do you think that happened?
[1:06:03] Speaker 8: When? Probably and not that long ago? Really? No, not
[1:06:08] Speaker 8: really what do you mean?
[1:06:09] Speaker 9: But not that long ago?
[1:06:11] Speaker 4: Probably only but eight thousand years ago?
[1:06:13] Speaker 9: Really?
[1:06:13] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[1:06:15] Speaker 2: Hey, Mel, did you hear about those German archaeologists who
[1:06:21] Speaker 2: unearthed something that was dated accurately dated to twenty eight
[1:06:26] Speaker 2: thousand years ago, like more than three times longer than
[1:06:31] Speaker 2: what you say the oldest age of human beings might be.
[1:06:33] Speaker 2: Did you read about this because they unearthed an ancient
[1:06:39] Speaker 2: sex toy. They found a highly polished silt stone dildo
[1:06:48] Speaker 2: accurately dated to twenty eight thousand years Now, if human
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: beings weren't around to construct, human beings didn't exist to
[1:07:03] Speaker 2: fashion and implement a stone schlong, who did it? What
[1:07:11] Speaker 2: is it? Orangutans but the silver bag, gorilla spider monkeys.
[1:07:17] Speaker 2: Who in the world is making sex toys if it's
[1:07:20] Speaker 2: not human beings who were around twenty eight thousand years ago.
[1:07:24] Speaker 2: I just want to ask Mal. You know you might
[1:07:27] Speaker 2: dobble check your eight thousand year number, Okay, you know
[1:07:33] Speaker 2: they were going to talk about COVID nineteen and all
[1:07:35] Speaker 2: of the conspiracy theories. They are just going after doctor
[1:07:38] Speaker 2: Anthony Fauci. He certainly made some misstatements and mistakes, but
[1:07:43] Speaker 2: if you look at the whole of his life, how
[1:07:44] Speaker 2: in the world does doctor Anthony Fauci become the villain
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: in their story? And yet he is. But they love ivermectin,
[1:07:52] Speaker 2: the anti parasite medication commonly used in animals that was
[1:07:57] Speaker 2: said to be a great prevention and or treatment for
[1:08:00] Speaker 2: COVID during the height of the pandemic. Joe Rogan took it,
[1:08:05] Speaker 2: but so many people criticized him for popularizing it.
[1:08:10] Speaker 4: I mean I remember, you know, I think they were
[1:08:12] Speaker 4: giving you a grilling once for taking horse worm medicine.
[1:08:15] Speaker 9: Yeah. Funny, which, yeah, funny how that works?
[1:08:17] Speaker 8: Yeah, funny, how that works? Funny? How funny? How that
[1:08:19] Speaker 8: does work? Yeah.
[1:08:21] Speaker 9: What's really funny is how that was that a part
[1:08:25] Speaker 9: of the demise of mainstream media because people were like, well,
[1:08:29] Speaker 9: this is crazy, this doesn't make it, are you guys
[1:08:31] Speaker 9: really the news like what is this? Yes, I know
[1:08:34] Speaker 9: he seemed to be.
[1:08:35] Speaker 8: They seem to be complicit with a and you know,
[1:08:40] Speaker 8: you think, well why why?
[1:08:42] Speaker 9: Because of money? I think this is what we were
[1:08:44] Speaker 9: talking about before that there is good and evil, and
[1:08:46] Speaker 9: sometimes it manifests itself in a very clear and obvious way.
[1:08:50] Speaker 8: And I think that's what that was.
[1:08:51] Speaker 9: That was evil, that was putting people's lives second and
[1:08:55] Speaker 9: putting money first.
[1:08:57] Speaker 8: Well, I don't know why I found you still walking around?
[1:08:59] Speaker 9: How is that guy still walking around? If just people
[1:09:02] Speaker 9: understand the history of the AIDS crisis and what that
[1:09:05] Speaker 9: guy did.
[1:09:06] Speaker 2: Doctor Anthony Fauci, he was there front and center during
[1:09:11] Speaker 2: the AIDS explosion in the nineteen eighties. People were dying,
[1:09:15] Speaker 2: Nobody knew what was going on. It was a political
[1:09:18] Speaker 2: nightmare as everybody was pointing and blaming at homosexuals, etc.
[1:09:23] Speaker 2: Anthony Fauci, the virologist, the expert in his field, teaming
[1:09:28] Speaker 2: up with other virologists and immunologists over the course of
[1:09:32] Speaker 2: fifteen years to develop a prevention to save who knows,
[1:09:36] Speaker 2: I mean countless lives. It was Fauci who established multiple
[1:09:41] Speaker 2: HIV clinical trial networks, and for those who couldn't get
[1:09:45] Speaker 2: into the clinical trials, he made a work around so
[1:09:48] Speaker 2: that other people infected with AIDS could participate in experimental
[1:09:53] Speaker 2: treatments that were deemed safe enough to try Fauci made
[1:09:57] Speaker 2: that happen after an Admittedly you start with the LGBT community.
[1:10:02] Speaker 2: Fauci opened his ears, he opened his mind, and then
[1:10:05] Speaker 2: he opened his doors to AIDS activists, involving them in
[1:10:10] Speaker 2: the processes for creating better treatments, more humane treatments, and
[1:10:16] Speaker 2: for better messaging to the country and the rest of
[1:10:19] Speaker 2: the world about HIV. Imperfect, Yes, but he was an
[1:10:24] Speaker 2: indispensable figure in treating and preventing HIV and AIDS, and
[1:10:30] Speaker 2: he will be remembered in our history books as a
[1:10:33] Speaker 2: man who helped us save millions of lives. But oh no,
[1:10:37] Speaker 2: not on Rogan's podcast, not with mel Gibson. No, I
[1:10:40] Speaker 2: can't believe that guy's still walking around.
[1:10:43] Speaker 9: There's more information now available to people instantaneously than ever before.
[1:10:47] Speaker 9: You look it up on your phone instantly know, Oh,
[1:10:49] Speaker 9: I've rememted. And the guy who created it won the Nobel.
[1:10:51] Speaker 8: Prizec Yeah twenty fourteen, yeah.
[1:10:53] Speaker 9: Fifteen, Yeah, for use in human beings. Yeah, So what
[1:10:56] Speaker 9: the fuck is going on?
[1:10:57] Speaker 8: Yeah?
[1:10:58] Speaker 9: Like, how who's running this thing?
[1:11:01] Speaker 4: And it's harmless and it wasn't made for horses, it
[1:11:03] Speaker 4: was made for people, and then they used it for horses, right, right.
[1:11:07] Speaker 9: Well, it's like saying PENICILLINUS for horses because they use
[1:11:09] Speaker 9: that on horses too, Like that's stupid.
[1:11:11] Speaker 8: They told me it was from moldy bread.
[1:11:14] Speaker 9: That's where it was from.
[1:11:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Okay. Mister Gibson and mister Rogan, who I
[1:11:20] Speaker 2: am increasingly suspicious might be the same person and they
[1:11:24] Speaker 2: were just split in a lab decades ago and went
[1:11:27] Speaker 2: off to live separate lives and now have converged on
[1:11:30] Speaker 2: the Joe Rogan experience. Ivermectin has been around for decades.
[1:11:35] Speaker 2: It was originally created to treat animals. It wasn't developed
[1:11:41] Speaker 2: for use in humans and then transferred to animals. In
[1:11:45] Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, William C. Campbell won the Nope Belt Prize
[1:11:49] Speaker 2: in Physiology or Medicine for a version of ivermectin that
[1:11:54] Speaker 2: specifically treats infection caused by roundworm parasites. The derivative of
[1:12:01] Speaker 2: avermectin has dramatically lowered the instances of river blindness, elephantiasis,
[1:12:08] Speaker 2: and other parasitic diseases. Campbell did not win the Nobel
[1:12:14] Speaker 2: Prize because ivermectin was used to treat viruses. It is
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: an anti parasitic. The ivermectin used in humans is a
[1:12:24] Speaker 2: different formulation customized for humans. Mel Gibson Joe Rogan big
[1:12:31] Speaker 2: fans of RFK Junior, the brainworm infected anti vaxer, the
[1:12:37] Speaker 2: guy on record on video saying that no vaccine has
[1:12:41] Speaker 2: ever been proven to be effective. This is the guy
[1:12:45] Speaker 2: who has said in the past that the COVID virus
[1:12:48] Speaker 2: was bioengineered to target specific Jewish people and the Chinese,
[1:12:54] Speaker 2: and that lockdown mandates during the pandemic were the equivalent
[1:12:58] Speaker 2: of Nazi German. By the way, of course, RFK Junior
[1:13:02] Speaker 2: Donald Trump's pick to lead the Department of Health and
[1:13:06] Speaker 2: Human Services. Oh, Mel Gibson and Joe Rogan love them some.
[1:13:11] Speaker 2: RFK Junior and his book.
[1:13:14] Speaker 4: It's even with Rfk's book. And he's an amazing guy.
[1:13:17] Speaker 4: People say, oh, he's kooky, he's crazy. He's not crazy.
[1:13:20] Speaker 2: He's not.
[1:13:21] Speaker 4: He's one of the most erudite, you know. They say
[1:13:24] Speaker 4: he's an anti vaxxer.
[1:13:25] Speaker 9: He's not.
[1:13:25] Speaker 4: He's not like he's a very shrewd. He's never lost
[1:13:29] Speaker 4: a case. I don't think when he brings something to suit,
[1:13:32] Speaker 4: I don't think he's ever been defeated. But that book
[1:13:36] Speaker 4: is not just him it's him in about a thousand
[1:13:39] Speaker 4: highly qualified scientists and physicians commenting on the whole situation.
[1:13:44] Speaker 4: So when you read it, it's a pretty convincing document.
[1:13:48] Speaker 2: Perhaps mister Gibson might be equally, if not more impressed,
[1:13:52] Speaker 2: if he had read the recent headline about seventy seven
[1:13:55] Speaker 2: no Bel laureates who officially signed the letter urging the
[1:13:59] Speaker 2: Senate to projecked RFK Junior as the nominee for Health
[1:14:03] Speaker 2: and Human Services Secretary. Top tier elite scientists, prize winners
[1:14:09] Speaker 2: in the fields of medicine, chemistry, physics, and economics have
[1:14:12] Speaker 2: come together and say that he is unfit and he
[1:14:15] Speaker 2: would put people in jeopardy, rightly saying, maybe the guy
[1:14:19] Speaker 2: who lies about vaccines causing autism shouldn't be put in
[1:14:24] Speaker 2: charge of health. I do not see mel Gibson invoking
[1:14:29] Speaker 2: these guys. And there's a mention of hydroxy chloroquin in
[1:14:34] Speaker 2: the interview al spare you they just sort of pepper
[1:14:37] Speaker 2: that in there a little bit. By the way, hydroxy
[1:14:39] Speaker 2: chloroquin was popularized by a paper that published in twenty twenty.
[1:14:44] Speaker 2: That paper has officially been retracted because of ethical concerns
[1:14:50] Speaker 2: and problems with methodology. This guy at the IHU who
[1:14:54] Speaker 2: published the treatment paper about hydroxy chloroquin the anti malarial drug,
[1:15:00] Speaker 2: saying that it reduced the levels of virus in patients.
[1:15:03] Speaker 2: He only used a sample size of like thirty six
[1:15:06] Speaker 2: patients and they had a very short peer review time.
[1:15:11] Speaker 2: He submitted his paper on the sixteenth of March twenty twenty.
[1:15:14] Speaker 2: He published four days later. Subsequent testing was done in
[1:15:21] Speaker 2: other laboratories and oh lookie, no benefit was actually demonstrated.
[1:15:27] Speaker 2: So that paper about hydroxy chlora quinn being a treatment
[1:15:31] Speaker 2: for COVID is retracted. It's gone, it's debunked. It was
[1:15:35] Speaker 2: and remains absolute bullshits. Will mel Gibson fans and Joe
[1:15:41] Speaker 2: Rogan listeners actually find this out? I am not optimistic.
[1:15:49] Speaker 2: You get the idea. Mel Gibson is a mess and
[1:15:54] Speaker 2: the culture that props mel up remains a mess. And
[1:15:58] Speaker 2: I wanted to focus on that today. I watched the
[1:16:01] Speaker 2: entire two and a half hour Rogan mel Gibson interviews
[1:16:04] Speaker 2: so you don't have to, And I just brought the
[1:16:08] Speaker 2: soundbited goodies sound bit, the sound biteable. I brought the
[1:16:13] Speaker 2: goodies for you here, and I'm so glad you you
[1:16:17] Speaker 2: stuck with me, have a wonderful week. We'll call it
[1:16:20] Speaker 2: a show. I'll see you back here next time.
[1:16:22] Speaker 1: Follow the Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a
[1:16:25] Speaker 1: complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and
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