# Cholesterol...You Have One Job

An episode of [TheThinkingAtheist](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/412308695), 20 May 2025, 1 h 05 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/mgln.ai/e/711/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/66099774/podcast804_cholesteroljob.mp3

Among the rest of the rants and calls, this week we're fantasizing about the fatty deposits clogging orange cells...and the implications if Captain Comb-over finally seizes up. James Fell's article, "When He Dies" Brain science article Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/thethinkingatheist--3270347/support.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
[0:09] Speaker 1: an idea.
[0:10] Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through the.
[0:13] Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I
[0:19] Speaker 1: tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not because.
[0:22] Speaker 2: I put my hand on a book and made a.
[0:24] Speaker 1: Wish and working together for a more rational world.
[0:29] Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.
[0:32] Speaker 2: Truth Fusian wisdom will come to you that way.
[0:35] Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
[0:43] Speaker 1: Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
[0:56] Speaker 2: I almost had to start this show late because an
[1:00] Speaker 2: I amuse myself by the way, there was a lawnmower
[1:04] Speaker 2: going next door. The reason the lawnmower was going next
[1:08] Speaker 2: door is because of me, and I must tell you
[1:10] Speaker 2: this story as I wait for the switchboard to populate.
[1:15] Speaker 2: So there's this empty lot right next to our home
[1:19] Speaker 2: and the builder or the owner of the lot doesn't
[1:24] Speaker 2: like to mow it. And I get it. We've had
[1:27] Speaker 2: a lot of rain and sometimes the grass gets tall
[1:30] Speaker 2: and its first world problems. Totally, I'm not that person,
[1:34] Speaker 2: but it was insane. It was like three feet tall
[1:39] Speaker 2: and out of control and so and this is a
[1:44] Speaker 2: chronic thing. And so I went on the neighborhood's Facebook page,
[1:49] Speaker 2: and the neighborhood does have like a community page, and
[1:53] Speaker 2: I posted an image which I had photoshopped. So I
[1:56] Speaker 2: went out with my phone. I took a picture of
[1:58] Speaker 2: the overgrown lot, and I came back here into photoshop
[2:02] Speaker 2: and I put a bunch of Riesei's monkeys photoshopped an
[2:09] Speaker 2: entire troop of Reesei's monkeys that were all frolicking around
[2:14] Speaker 2: this overgrown lot in the grass and the weeds. It
[2:17] Speaker 2: was actually pretty impressive. I was pretty happy with my work,
[2:20] Speaker 2: considering I did it on the fly. And I posted
[2:24] Speaker 2: it and I tagged the lot owner because I'm a
[2:27] Speaker 2: jerk apparently, and I said, I'm not saying that the
[2:31] Speaker 2: lot next door is overgrown and out of control, but
[2:34] Speaker 2: a troop of Riese's monkeys has taken up residence there
[2:39] Speaker 2: and all the screeching is making it hard to sleep
[2:42] Speaker 2: at night. Everybody had a big laugh first thing. This morning,
[2:50] Speaker 2: mowers are out there. That's just awesome. And honestly, in
[2:55] Speaker 2: this sounds kind of well, maybe it doesn't. Maybe you
[2:57] Speaker 2: get this another reason I don't like for them to
[3:01] Speaker 2: let it overgrow. It is because we have a ton
[3:04] Speaker 2: of bunnies in the neighborhood, a lot of rabbits. They're everywhere.
[3:08] Speaker 2: They like to get in our little garden and they
[3:11] Speaker 2: live behind the trees and they're frolicking here and there.
[3:13] Speaker 2: And you know, some people say they eat the plants. Hell,
[3:16] Speaker 2: I don't care. They're bunnies. They're little rabbits, so cute.
[3:20] Speaker 2: But the rabbits like to take up residents and in
[3:22] Speaker 2: the tall grass, and so when they wait till it's
[3:26] Speaker 2: three plus feet, sometimes the bunnies cannot get out of
[3:30] Speaker 2: the way of the mower. And I'm going to spare
[3:32] Speaker 2: you the details. But it's as bad as you would think,
[3:34] Speaker 2: because I stumble upon the aftermath when I'm walking Linus.
[3:38] Speaker 2: Totally gruesome, totally avoidable. So part of me is like,
[3:42] Speaker 2: save the bunnies. Moh the damn lawn occasionally. Anyway, that's
[3:47] Speaker 2: my first world problem and easy amusement today. So if
[3:50] Speaker 2: you ever need someone to photoshop some reesius monkeys into
[3:54] Speaker 2: your neighborhood, just call me. If I'm not busy, if
[3:59] Speaker 2: I'm not too big, I will do that. I have
[4:03] Speaker 2: been reading and by the time this show airs, the
[4:06] Speaker 2: headline will be a few days old. I've been reading
[4:09] Speaker 2: about our director of the National Institute of Health who
[4:13] Speaker 2: has been swimming with his family in fecal water. It's awesome.
[4:21] Speaker 2: It's awesome. What better metaphor could there be for our times?
[4:27] Speaker 2: As posted on NBC News on the twelfth of May,
[4:32] Speaker 2: Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior posted
[4:37] Speaker 2: photos of himself and his grandchildren swimming in waters known
[4:42] Speaker 2: to be contaminated during a Mother's Day hike in Rock
[4:46] Speaker 2: Creek Park. In one of the photos from Sunday, Kennedy
[4:51] Speaker 2: is seen fully submerged in the water with his grandchildren
[4:54] Speaker 2: swimming in spite of an ongoing National Park Service advisory
[5:00] Speaker 2: against coming in contact with the water in the Washington
[5:04] Speaker 2: d C. Park quote due to high bacteria levels. The
[5:10] Speaker 2: same notice as swimming and waiting are not permitted due
[5:13] Speaker 2: to health risks. Stay out of the water to protect
[5:17] Speaker 2: stream banks, plants, and animals, and keep you and your family,
[5:22] Speaker 2: including pets, safe from illness. Rock Creek has high levels
[5:27] Speaker 2: of bacteria and other infectious pathogens that make swimming, waiting,
[5:32] Speaker 2: and other contact with the water hazard to human and
[5:36] Speaker 2: pet health, and there are photos of our FK Junior
[5:43] Speaker 2: and his grandchildren swimming in fecal matter. What better metaphor
[5:49] Speaker 2: for our times? FYI, Because of popular demand, that drawing
[5:57] Speaker 2: that I did for the Recovering from Real re Leigion
[6:00] Speaker 2: fundraiser last year, the drawing of my cat that Matt
[6:04] Speaker 2: Dillahunty tattooed to his leg when we reached a fundraising goal,
[6:11] Speaker 2: it is now merchandise. Somebody's like, put that on a
[6:15] Speaker 2: T shirt and I would buy it. And I couldn't
[6:17] Speaker 2: believe it. This was months ago. Are you kidding me? Yes? Please,
[6:21] Speaker 2: I must have this. They said, Well, I have made
[6:25] Speaker 2: an update finally to the Thinking Atheist store, the online store.
[6:29] Speaker 2: Go to the Thinkingatheist dot com and you'll see the
[6:33] Speaker 2: store tab and so I've added some stuff to it.
[6:36] Speaker 2: I've got the Thinking Atheist logo mug. The slogan says,
[6:40] Speaker 2: assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. I have T shirts.
[6:45] Speaker 2: There is a sweatshirt and oh my god, look at it.
[6:48] Speaker 2: It's cat and you can get the shirt in gray
[6:54] Speaker 2: or in white. I cannot believe people want to buy it,
[6:57] Speaker 2: but of okay, I made it available and it's on
[7:00] Speaker 2: a mug. Now you know, some people are like, well,
[7:04] Speaker 2: I'm going to pay eight bucks for a mug or
[7:06] Speaker 2: ten bucks and these are fourteen fifteen, sixteen. I can't
[7:10] Speaker 2: remember what the prices are. I ain't getting rich on
[7:13] Speaker 2: the store, you know what I'm saying. But the nature
[7:15] Speaker 2: of the beast is is that the provider, the fulfillment house,
[7:21] Speaker 2: takes their cut and then then the rest goes to me.
[7:25] Speaker 2: So there's like a wholesaler retailer retailer kind of thing.
[7:29] Speaker 2: So you know, it's not are they super cheap?
[7:31] Speaker 3: No?
[7:31] Speaker 2: Are they super expensive? Note, but you have to think
[7:34] Speaker 2: of it in terms of supporting the channel and the
[7:37] Speaker 2: work and getting some swag along the way. So here
[7:40] Speaker 2: I am showing you. I've got the mugs, I've got
[7:42] Speaker 2: t shirts, I've got cat I've got a tote bag.
[7:47] Speaker 2: Oh look a mousepat stainless steel water bottle and all
[7:52] Speaker 2: that the Thinkingatheist dot com and then you click the
[7:56] Speaker 2: store tab. I didn't put the thing thinking Atheists on
[8:01] Speaker 2: the products themselves. And it's not because I'm a coward.
[8:05] Speaker 2: It's strategic because I like the idea of the logo
[8:09] Speaker 2: and the slogan as conversation starters. I've had people who
[8:13] Speaker 2: have contacted me, and they said, look, my religious parents
[8:17] Speaker 2: came over and we had coffee, and I served them
[8:21] Speaker 2: coffee in a thinking Atheist mug with your logo on
[8:25] Speaker 2: one side the thinking person icon with the A in it,
[8:29] Speaker 2: and then the other side it said assume nothing, question everything,
[8:32] Speaker 2: and start thinking. And my religious family members said, wow,
[8:36] Speaker 2: that's awesome. I think we should all be thinking. So
[8:43] Speaker 2: they were drinking heathen brew. I just thought that was awesome.
[8:47] Speaker 2: I just thought that was awesome. So anyway, the Thinkingatheist
[8:53] Speaker 2: dot com and then click on the shop icon taking
[8:58] Speaker 2: your calls on whatever subject is on your mind. The
[9:02] Speaker 2: number is in the show titled just dial me up
[9:05] Speaker 2: or use the weblink and let's talk. I've got nine
[9:08] Speaker 2: zero four Juno. Welcome Juno. Can you hear me?
[9:13] Speaker 4: Yes? I can. How you doing?
[9:15] Speaker 2: I'm well, let's talk what's on your mind?
[9:18] Speaker 3: So I spent a lot of time yesterday on Blue Sky,
[9:21] Speaker 3: consuming far too much political content and had a bit
[9:27] Speaker 3: of a revelation this morning as a result of that,
[9:30] Speaker 3: and I'm hoping you can poke some holes in my hypothesis.
[9:35] Speaker 4: My idea is.
[9:37] Speaker 3: Well, for me, the standard for holding a public office
[9:42] Speaker 3: is being able to demonstrate empathy at that scale. So
[9:47] Speaker 3: if you want to be a mayor, you need to
[9:50] Speaker 3: be able to demonstrate having empathy for your entire city.
[9:54] Speaker 3: If you want to be president, then you need to
[9:58] Speaker 3: be able to hold the entire nature in.
[10:00] Speaker 4: Your heart at once.
[10:02] Speaker 3: The revelation I had this morning was that I hold
[10:05] Speaker 3: the same standard to claims of deities, because to me,
[10:12] Speaker 3: the Christian God at the very least does not demonstrate
[10:16] Speaker 3: empathy for his creation. Does that make sense?
[10:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. I'm not sure if gods would be
[10:22] Speaker 2: required to be empathetic. Isn't our history or mythology rather
[10:26] Speaker 2: filled with the stories of angry gods?
[10:30] Speaker 3: True? Yeah, and that's basically you know, a reason I
[10:33] Speaker 3: am an atheist. Yes, And I was really just hoping that,
[10:37] Speaker 3: you know, I gonna have somebody to bounce the idea
[10:39] Speaker 3: off of, to like find the hold and because it
[10:41] Speaker 3: feels too simple, you.
[10:43] Speaker 2: Know, Oh, I think it's probably one piece of the
[10:46] Speaker 2: much larger puzzle. But would I expect a benevolent father
[10:53] Speaker 2: to act with benevolence? Would I want empathetic behaviors and
[10:57] Speaker 2: attitudes from an all powerful greed maure? Yeah, I certainly would.
[11:01] Speaker 2: I would take that over the cruelty and the vengefulness
[11:04] Speaker 2: and the judgment and the bigotry and the jealousy and
[11:08] Speaker 2: the hate and all that stuff. So, I mean, I
[11:10] Speaker 2: don't know that your position is flawed. I think it's
[11:13] Speaker 2: probably a much broader question. But this is certainly a
[11:16] Speaker 2: piece of that conversation. Sure, fair enough, all right, I think,
[11:19] Speaker 2: thanks Juno. Yep, all right, We'll see you soon. Thanks.
[11:23] Speaker 4: Bye.
[11:25] Speaker 2: Was it Elon Musk who said that empathy was a problem.
[11:28] Speaker 2: We see the oligarchs who were saying that. This is
[11:31] Speaker 2: an article from March of this year. Americans are still
[11:35] Speaker 2: in the dark about the scope and scale of what
[11:38] Speaker 2: Elon Musk is doing with DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency,
[11:43] Speaker 2: which isn't an official department, by the way, which is
[11:47] Speaker 2: working to drastically shrink the size of government by aiming
[11:51] Speaker 2: to cut a trillion or more dollars in government spending.
[11:54] Speaker 2: By the way, Sentences like that are examples of how
[11:57] Speaker 2: the media is failing us. That is from CNN. I'm sorry,
[12:04] Speaker 2: drastically shrink the size of government. I mean, this is messaging, right,
[12:11] Speaker 2: It's not about shrinking government. This is taking a machete
[12:16] Speaker 2: to critical civil service jobs. Science universities, the stuff that
[12:24] Speaker 2: societies need to function without consideration, and then wielding a
[12:28] Speaker 2: chainsaw on a stage wearing Hollywood sunglasses, gleefully saying that
[12:33] Speaker 2: you have you and your unelected dogebro minions who have
[12:40] Speaker 2: no security clearances and are largely acting in the shadows.
[12:45] Speaker 2: You've just given them access to six trillion dollars in
[12:48] Speaker 2: treasury funds and the social security information of three hundred
[12:52] Speaker 2: and sixty million American citizens. So I'm screaming at news
[12:57] Speaker 2: outlets like CNN, going Jesus Christ, do your job. They're
[13:01] Speaker 2: not working to drastically shrink the size of government with cuts.
[13:08] Speaker 2: This is a coup. It's a power grab. It is
[13:12] Speaker 2: a blatant violation of our norms, our laws, our constitution.
[13:16] Speaker 2: As the invertebrates in Congress sit there and allow it
[13:20] Speaker 2: all to take place. Do you guys see that four
[13:24] Speaker 2: hundred million dollar plane that Katar just gave to Donald Trump?
[13:30] Speaker 2: The memes are awesome, and Colter, conservative fire brand, goes
[13:36] Speaker 2: on social media and says, well, nobody griped whenever the
[13:39] Speaker 2: president was given the gift of the Statue of Liberty
[13:43] Speaker 2: my friends, and somebody rightly responded, Yeah, but he didn't
[13:49] Speaker 2: take the Statue of Liberty with him when he left office, right,
[13:55] Speaker 2: and that was a gift to the nation, not to
[13:57] Speaker 2: one dude. Meanwhile, Trump is telling everybody that austerity should
[14:02] Speaker 2: be the order of the day. Why should your children
[14:05] Speaker 2: play with thirty dolls when you could cut back with
[14:08] Speaker 2: the rising costs of everything from groceries to other items
[14:13] Speaker 2: to your mortgage everyday bills. Why in the world should
[14:17] Speaker 2: your children have thirty dolls when they could play with
[14:19] Speaker 2: only two. It's time for you to cut back. Oh
[14:23] Speaker 2: what a lovely half a billion dollar plane that is Jesus,
[14:30] Speaker 2: this blows my mind. Caitlin at nine seven zero, Hi,
[14:36] Speaker 2: are you there?
[14:37] Speaker 4: Yes? In here?
[14:38] Speaker 2: Welcome? What's on your mind?
[14:41] Speaker 5: I guess what I'm struggling with right now is that
[14:44] Speaker 5: even if people who disagree with what's going on don't
[14:47] Speaker 5: talk about it. I live in kind of a wealthy,
[14:49] Speaker 5: white suburban town.
[14:51] Speaker 3: And nobody ever wants to discuss what's going on.
[14:54] Speaker 4: It brings me down.
[14:54] Speaker 5: They tell me they don't watch the news.
[14:56] Speaker 2: Hang on, I'm hearing that there is an echo on
[14:59] Speaker 2: the haulers, So I'm going to make a switch here.
[15:01] Speaker 2: Can you still hear me?
[15:02] Speaker 4: Caitlin, it's a kid.
[15:04] Speaker 2: Okay, maybe that's better for everybody. My apologies.
[15:08] Speaker 5: It sure seems like we're leading to a place that
[15:10] Speaker 5: the only option is violence. And I'm not under any
[15:12] Speaker 5: illusions that we would win that kind of scenario.
[15:16] Speaker 4: I know that you just give a good speech about
[15:18] Speaker 4: what you do.
[15:19] Speaker 3: To find hope, but are you having any success building
[15:22] Speaker 3: community with people who do want to take more action
[15:25] Speaker 3: or that are even willing discuss what's going on.
[15:27] Speaker 2: I found what you have found. There are some people.
[15:31] Speaker 2: I always reference my tennis team because outside of the
[15:34] Speaker 2: thinking atheist community, my tennis community is who I see
[15:37] Speaker 2: the most of because I'm on like five teams, you know,
[15:40] Speaker 2: and I'm always on the court, and it's small talk.
[15:43] Speaker 2: We don't talk about the heavy stuff when we're waiting
[15:46] Speaker 2: to go out and warm up and play the match.
[15:48] Speaker 2: But I am well aware that there are magas all
[15:52] Speaker 2: over the place, and they used to be a little
[15:55] Speaker 2: more bold and vocal. And I don't think I'm projecting
[16:01] Speaker 2: when I say that they've gone strangely mute, like they're uncomfortable.
[16:07] Speaker 2: They're like, well, I can't really defend the guy. The
[16:10] Speaker 2: guy says, well, I don't know if I'll defend the Constitution, right,
[16:14] Speaker 2: he says In the ABC News interview, He's like, I
[16:17] Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, that's a lawyer thing. The man
[16:21] Speaker 2: took his oath, the presidential oath, to defend the constitution,
[16:25] Speaker 2: he tells the Atlantic. I run the country and the world.
[16:29] Speaker 3: You know.
[16:30] Speaker 2: In the wake of a lot of this type of stuff,
[16:32] Speaker 2: I have noticed that the magas in my circle have
[16:36] Speaker 2: become a little less vocal. Self care remains a challenge,
[16:41] Speaker 2: which is why people need to go right now and
[16:44] Speaker 2: find the speech that I just released to YouTube called
[16:48] Speaker 2: Dissent is Our Duty. I took about ten minutes and
[16:53] Speaker 2: detailed some reasons to be encouraged. And these aren't fabricated.
[16:58] Speaker 2: They're not false. It's not pie in the sky, but
[17:01] Speaker 2: they are genuine things that are happening throughout the United
[17:04] Speaker 2: States that do give us reason to think that maybe
[17:08] Speaker 2: it's not all going to get flushed down the toilet.
[17:12] Speaker 2: Maybe there is some reason to hope. And in the meantime,
[17:16] Speaker 2: I think being an activist and fighting for what we
[17:20] Speaker 2: think is right and speaking out for the good, I
[17:23] Speaker 2: think that's good medicine. Just don't forget self care. Caitlin
[17:27] Speaker 2: don't forget to take care of you. Okay, too true.
[17:30] Speaker 5: And I appreciated that speech, and I appreciate your time.
[17:33] Speaker 2: I hope you have a good rest of your day.
[17:34] Speaker 2: You bet, you take care of yourself, Kaitlyn, Bye bye.
[17:37] Speaker 2: I enjoy doing live presentations. Something unique about having that
[17:43] Speaker 2: immediate feedback with a live audience. You know, if I
[17:47] Speaker 2: say something here, then I might get an email within
[17:50] Speaker 2: the hour or the next day. If I say something
[17:54] Speaker 2: that I think is funny, I don't know if anybody
[17:56] Speaker 2: else is laughing at all. I mean when you hear
[17:58] Speaker 2: about the recis monk who have been photoshopped in the
[18:01] Speaker 2: field next to me, I may be cracking up, but
[18:04] Speaker 2: I don't know if anybody else is. Maybe I'm just
[18:06] Speaker 2: amusing myself. But if I do the material, or if
[18:10] Speaker 2: I show something, if I'd have shown that photo to
[18:12] Speaker 2: a live audience, I would immediately know how it went over.
[18:16] Speaker 2: So anyway, I really do enjoy the chance plus to
[18:19] Speaker 2: connect with people. Speaking of conventions, I am going to
[18:23] Speaker 2: be on the road, helelp me pull up my own
[18:25] Speaker 2: calendar because I can never remember Seth Andrews dot come.
[18:33] Speaker 2: I am going to be speaking at Wichita Oasis going
[18:37] Speaker 2: to Kansas on June the first, that's a Sunday morning
[18:41] Speaker 2: at eleven. I'll be at the Nanocon event in Nashville,
[18:46] Speaker 2: the Nashville Nuns Conference July twenty sixth. Baja Cohn August eighth, ninth,
[18:53] Speaker 2: and tenth in Sarnia, Ontario. And I mentioned earlier that
[18:58] Speaker 2: getting through customs in to Canada and back was the
[19:02] Speaker 2: easiest I've ever gotten through customs. So if you're heading
[19:05] Speaker 2: from the States to Canada for the event, don't sweat
[19:08] Speaker 2: it all right. I wouldn't want to be somebody else
[19:10] Speaker 2: coming down here. But if you're in the States going
[19:14] Speaker 2: to Canada and back, I wouldn't sweat that at all.
[19:16] Speaker 2: That was piece of cake. And I'm looking forward to
[19:18] Speaker 2: going back to Sarnia, one of my favorite events of
[19:21] Speaker 2: the year. Details on these and other events the Thinkingatheist
[19:25] Speaker 2: dot com slash events Okay and beautiful people. We have
[19:32] Speaker 2: many more calls to take and many more conversations to have,
[19:36] Speaker 2: and we will continue right after this. Appreciate your support
[19:49] Speaker 2: so much on Patreon. Thank you for I don't know
[19:53] Speaker 2: whatever your partnership entails, whether it's a buck a show
[19:57] Speaker 2: or a buck a month, whatever, if you would like
[19:59] Speaker 2: to s bored me and the work Patreon dot com
[20:03] Speaker 2: slash Seth Andrews six one two. I don't see a name.
[20:10] Speaker 2: Who's this?
[20:12] Speaker 4: This is a Seth Nelson Seth. You will believe it
[20:15] Speaker 4: a fellow Seth.
[20:16] Speaker 2: There used to not be very many of us. I've
[20:19] Speaker 2: met more and more as I've gotten older, and I've
[20:21] Speaker 2: seen a few famous Seth's out there. Seth Rogan, Seth Myers,
[20:25] Speaker 2: et cetera. What's on your mind, Seth? What do you
[20:28] Speaker 2: want to talk about?
[20:29] Speaker 4: Well, first, I would like to talk a little bit
[20:31] Speaker 4: about Trump. And I found a very really good article
[20:36] Speaker 4: that shared a Facebook that was called the Warning Was Real.
[20:40] Speaker 4: Trump's Executive Order confirms the move towards martial law by
[20:44] Speaker 4: Tony Pentomali and I just want to read the last
[20:49] Speaker 4: paragraph because I had something to say about it. He says,
[20:54] Speaker 4: Trump counts on your passivity. He counts on your fatigue.
[20:59] Speaker 4: That's why he moved in burst a flurry of orders,
[21:02] Speaker 4: each more authoritarian than the last, until the norm becomes submission.
[21:07] Speaker 4: We must not submit. The first time around, Trump tested
[21:11] Speaker 4: the waters by Faye Square, Portland Muslim band family separation.
[21:16] Speaker 4: This time he isn't testing, he's executing. The streets are
[21:21] Speaker 4: being militarized, Civilian oversight is being gutted, law enforcement is
[21:26] Speaker 4: being deputized as the federal government's domestic army, and the
[21:31] Speaker 4: groundwork for invoking the Insurrection Act is already finished. If
[21:35] Speaker 4: Trump formally declares it, there will be no need for
[21:38] Speaker 4: panic because the tanks, the raids, the silencing, the descent,
[21:42] Speaker 4: and the crushing of opposition will already be in place.
[21:45] Speaker 4: That is not a future threat, This is a present reality.
[21:49] Speaker 4: Sneak resist now, not next month, not after the next outrage,
[21:54] Speaker 4: not after the next court loss. Now. Now, I would
[21:59] Speaker 4: disagree with one thing. I think protesting is speaking won't
[22:04] Speaker 4: do much of anything now because people are already being
[22:08] Speaker 4: punished for descent. It's essentially thought crimes. Especially with Trump's
[22:12] Speaker 4: anti Christian bis initiative. People are being sent to a
[22:16] Speaker 4: foreign consecration camp with no due process for protesting genocide
[22:20] Speaker 4: and gaza. And yeah about due process. Freedom, speech is gone,
[22:24] Speaker 4: freedom assembly is gone, freedom the press is gone. I mean,
[22:28] Speaker 4: if people don't believe that we are dealing with focal
[22:31] Speaker 4: o flaxis government being put in place, you're delusional, because
[22:35] Speaker 4: we're looking at the form of it, the squash descent
[22:38] Speaker 4: to punish anyone who doesn't fall in mine. And as
[22:42] Speaker 4: much as I'd like to see Trump die before its terminal,
[22:45] Speaker 4: I don't think we can wait for that. And no
[22:49] Speaker 4: people who say, oh, we should kill him, no one
[22:53] Speaker 4: tyrants death isn't going to help. There needs to be
[22:56] Speaker 4: a clean swip of the entire house full of traders
[22:59] Speaker 4: to our country, Trump, beth Elon, RFK, et cetera, the
[23:03] Speaker 4: majority of the Drumans administration and the Christian nationalist people
[23:07] Speaker 4: in power. I think we need to find a way
[23:09] Speaker 4: to sentence them all the death, the way the treaders
[23:12] Speaker 4: have often been dealt with in history, send a message,
[23:15] Speaker 4: if not by our own country. Let's get some black
[23:18] Speaker 4: ops soldiers from any allies we have left, or just
[23:21] Speaker 4: from the Simony and Adam take care of it. We
[23:23] Speaker 4: can't let this get any further. Trump is so found
[23:27] Speaker 4: that Putin, he's setting us up to be taken over
[23:30] Speaker 4: by Putin.
[23:32] Speaker 2: All right, let me jump in. I have to strongly
[23:35] Speaker 2: stand against any call for assassinations. This is not how
[23:39] Speaker 2: we solve the problem. It's no different than Roger Stone
[23:42] Speaker 2: saying that you know the enemies of Trump should be assassinated.
[23:46] Speaker 2: That's not our solution. And I resist any call to
[23:51] Speaker 2: go out and execute the entire freaking Republican Party, or
[23:54] Speaker 2: the sick of fans, or the mags or whatnot. I
[23:57] Speaker 2: think they have sacrificed their humanity. We can sacrifice ours.
[24:01] Speaker 2: I want to know, from your perspective, if the free
[24:05] Speaker 2: press is under attack, and if descent is being squashed,
[24:10] Speaker 2: why would the free press speaking freely and protest in
[24:14] Speaker 2: the streets not be a message of defiance against the tyrants.
[24:18] Speaker 2: Wouldn't that type of protest and dissent be important?
[24:23] Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm not saying it's not important. That's not
[24:26] Speaker 4: my issue. I'm just saying that if it's being punished,
[24:30] Speaker 4: then how can we then what it feels like this
[24:36] Speaker 4: set isn't enough, you know what I mean?
[24:39] Speaker 2: Well, I don't think lawlessness is the answer. I mean,
[24:42] Speaker 2: some people think we need to storm the best steel.
[24:45] Speaker 2: I myself think that is I just don't think we
[24:50] Speaker 2: beat them by becoming them. And this is a hot
[24:52] Speaker 2: button conversation. A lot of people are like, well, they're
[24:55] Speaker 2: in the gutter. We're going to have to get in
[24:57] Speaker 2: the gutter to deal with them one on one. To
[25:00] Speaker 2: I face to face. I just I resist the idea
[25:04] Speaker 2: that as we have been condemning all of the violence
[25:08] Speaker 2: against our fellow human beings, that then we begin to
[25:11] Speaker 2: excuse it in our own camp. And I think there
[25:14] Speaker 2: is merit to nonviolent protest. I think when sixty Minutes
[25:18] Speaker 2: does a fearless expose of the protection racket that's being
[25:22] Speaker 2: run by the Trump administration, even as CBS is being
[25:26] Speaker 2: sued by the Trump White House, that defiance is important,
[25:31] Speaker 2: and I think it gives courage and power to other
[25:34] Speaker 2: disseminators of information and investigative reporters out there. I think
[25:38] Speaker 2: when five million people show up for the April fifth
[25:41] Speaker 2: Hands Off demonstration, there is messaging taking place. This impacts
[25:46] Speaker 2: the perspectives and perhaps empowers other people to stand up
[25:50] Speaker 2: at the local, regional, state, and national level. I think
[25:53] Speaker 2: it sends a message to their elected representatives, holy shit,
[25:57] Speaker 2: you better not ignore us. I mean, we've seen the
[26:00] Speaker 2: people at the town hall meetings, the Republicans, the mag is,
[26:03] Speaker 2: the Trump sick of fans come out and they try
[26:05] Speaker 2: to sell the party line, and even his own constituents
[26:08] Speaker 2: or her own constituents are standing up and going this
[26:12] Speaker 2: is a bunch of bullshit, and they're doing it so
[26:14] Speaker 2: much that the elected representatives are walking out of the
[26:17] Speaker 2: room because they can't handle it or don't want to.
[26:20] Speaker 2: And I think there is merit to that make them squirm,
[26:23] Speaker 2: make them uncomfortable. I think there is such a thing
[26:25] Speaker 2: as good trouble. I don't think assassinating the people we
[26:29] Speaker 2: oppose is going to fix it.
[26:30] Speaker 4: That's just me, I'm hearriet, I just I just feel
[26:36] Speaker 4: it's really hard to feel like the protest is going
[26:40] Speaker 4: to help when they're actively you know, no, I get it,
[26:43] Speaker 4: just when they can actively punish it, when they can
[26:46] Speaker 4: actively find you out and go and go, oh, nope,
[26:51] Speaker 4: you're going to jail.
[26:52] Speaker 2: Well, let me say this much in my defense, if
[26:55] Speaker 2: I may, I have seen enough of a resistance at
[27:00] Speaker 2: the judicial level to make me think that perhaps the
[27:03] Speaker 2: courts aren't going to totally fail us, that they may
[27:07] Speaker 2: come in and begin doing a proper defense of the
[27:11] Speaker 2: letter of the law. Even the Supreme Court. But John
[27:13] Speaker 2: Roberts at the Helm is starting to shift a little bit.
[27:16] Speaker 2: You can see there's some resistance. There's infighting within Maga
[27:21] Speaker 2: cult and to a degree that infighting that internal civil
[27:24] Speaker 2: war may actually help us. I know there's a lot
[27:27] Speaker 2: of stuff that is happening, but I sure would like
[27:30] Speaker 2: to see more of it. I'd like to see it louder.
[27:32] Speaker 2: I don't want to see us go out and set
[27:34] Speaker 2: fire to the houses of those we oppose. I just
[27:37] Speaker 2: don't think that's the solution to our problem. The challenge is,
[27:41] Speaker 2: I don't know what the solution is. It's messy, it's sticky.
[27:45] Speaker 2: I wish I had a better answer for you. But
[27:46] Speaker 2: that's just my perspective, and I know our audience welcomes
[27:49] Speaker 2: yours as well and shares your frustration.
[27:52] Speaker 4: Well, thank you for talking to me.
[27:53] Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
[27:54] Speaker 4: I'm so sorry if I come across as kind of
[27:57] Speaker 4: sounding like I'm like some kind of violent line lunatics. No, no, no, no,
[28:02] Speaker 4: I get it.
[28:03] Speaker 2: I mean I feel it. Some people have said somebody
[28:07] Speaker 2: needs to take Donald Trump out. Remember when he was
[28:10] Speaker 2: at that big outdoor events and the bullet grazed to
[28:14] Speaker 2: bosedly grazed his ear. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but
[28:17] Speaker 2: even now, that story just doesn't wash. Like his ear
[28:20] Speaker 2: healed up within twenty four hours, there's something wrong with it.
[28:23] Speaker 2: And then he's you know, selling shot glasses with bullets
[28:27] Speaker 2: in him. Meanwhile, no one's talking about the firefighter who
[28:30] Speaker 2: took a bullet and died at the scene. It's the
[28:32] Speaker 2: whole thing's obscene. But there were a lot of folks
[28:34] Speaker 2: that were like, man, just a few inches and we'd
[28:38] Speaker 2: have been rid of him. And I'm like, no, no,
[28:41] Speaker 2: he would have been a martyr.
[28:42] Speaker 4: And then yes, that is something I genuinely thought myself,
[28:47] Speaker 4: is that it is if you take him. That's one
[28:50] Speaker 4: of the things I worried about, is because there's so
[28:54] Speaker 4: many people on the MAGA side that just worship this
[28:58] Speaker 4: guy that we would make him out of him if
[29:01] Speaker 4: he's gone. Well, but I do still wonder why did
[29:04] Speaker 4: the guy bother to double tap? He would he would
[29:08] Speaker 4: have he would have done it.
[29:11] Speaker 2: I'm uncomfortable one of us is getting a visit from
[29:15] Speaker 2: the Secret Service before this is all over. Dude, I'm
[29:19] Speaker 2: one of those guys who thinks, is it James Fell
[29:22] Speaker 2: who said cholesterol you have one job? That's how I
[29:27] Speaker 2: feel about it. You know, when he's doing a live
[29:30] Speaker 2: press conference, all of a sudden, you know, he grabs
[29:33] Speaker 2: his chest and it's over. If it had if it's
[29:36] Speaker 2: going to happen. I think it has to happen that way.
[29:38] Speaker 2: You just reminded me of a piece that James published
[29:40] Speaker 2: that I'm going to have to read for everybody. Just
[29:43] Speaker 2: know that a lot of folks share your frustration. I'm
[29:45] Speaker 2: this is a forum where you con vent in safety anytime.
[29:48] Speaker 4: Okay, seth okay, yeah, I just I'm just saying, like,
[29:52] Speaker 4: if the guy actually wanted to succeed, why he could
[29:55] Speaker 4: have Why did he only fire one?
[29:58] Speaker 2: I get it, I get it, all right, all right,
[30:02] Speaker 2: that's all right, all right, thanks for Collins. We'll see
[30:05] Speaker 2: you later.
[30:06] Speaker 5: All right.
[30:07] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm you know, I'm not that guy, and I
[30:11] Speaker 2: know the emotional part of us, you know, I know it.
[30:16] Speaker 2: Just it would feel good. Let me find that post
[30:20] Speaker 2: by James Fell. Okay, yes, here it is. Oh I
[30:23] Speaker 2: must read this for you. It'll take me probably ten minutes.
[30:28] Speaker 2: But it's written with such James Fell type verbiage that
[30:32] Speaker 2: I think you will be interested in it. It posted
[30:36] Speaker 2: May the thirteenth, nine forty five a m. On his
[30:40] Speaker 2: Facebook page. It's titled when he Dies, he said. Eloquent
[30:46] Speaker 2: quotes tend to find their way to more famous mouths
[30:50] Speaker 2: and are often altered in the process you've likely read
[30:54] Speaker 2: I've never wished a man dead, but I have read
[30:57] Speaker 2: some obituaries with great pleasure and seen it attributed to
[31:02] Speaker 2: Mark Twain. The original quote did not arise until more
[31:05] Speaker 2: than two decades after Twain's death, and reads I have
[31:09] Speaker 2: never killed anyone, but I have read some obituary notices
[31:13] Speaker 2: with great protraction. It was written by Clarence Darrow, the
[31:18] Speaker 2: lawyer who defended John Scopes for teaching evolution back in
[31:22] Speaker 2: nineteen twenty five. The adapted version is far more relatable.
[31:27] Speaker 2: Most people have never killed a fellow human, so it
[31:30] Speaker 2: sets few a part to assert this. But in our
[31:33] Speaker 2: highly divisible society, many a pearl clutcher wishes to proclaim
[31:38] Speaker 2: that they've never wished anyone dead. I've wished him dead
[31:43] Speaker 2: every fucking day for the last decade, and I will
[31:48] Speaker 2: dance a motherfucking last boy Scout jig when it finally happens.
[31:54] Speaker 2: What happens after he dies depends on both the how
[31:57] Speaker 2: and the when. Let us begin with when don't hold
[32:02] Speaker 2: your breath despite being demented as fuck and incapable of
[32:07] Speaker 2: spewing more than a semicogent word salad and frequently doing
[32:11] Speaker 2: the lowie body lean. He appears relatively hail When humans
[32:17] Speaker 2: have access to the best healthcare on the planet, we
[32:20] Speaker 2: don't die easy. He's still ambulatory and can still cheat
[32:24] Speaker 2: at golf. Expecting him to drop dead in the next
[32:28] Speaker 2: year is the most wishful of thinking. They'll pump him
[32:32] Speaker 2: full of drugs to keep his cholesterol in, blood pressure
[32:35] Speaker 2: and check, and he'll likely keep on destroying democracy for
[32:39] Speaker 2: years to come. In my non medical, but unfortunately experiential opinion,
[32:46] Speaker 2: he appears at least five years away from becoming undeniably
[32:50] Speaker 2: enfeebled to the point of needing long term care, at
[32:54] Speaker 2: which point he'll probably last another five or so years.
[32:58] Speaker 2: Sorry to be the bearer Vadnue, but I expect it
[33:01] Speaker 2: will be another decade before he finally kicks. But what
[33:06] Speaker 2: if it happened sooner. I know plenty of people would
[33:10] Speaker 2: love the two Amo sexuals to security of the free state,
[33:15] Speaker 2: the motherfucker, but the fallout would be a nightmare. Do
[33:19] Speaker 2: you want a martyr, because that's how you get a
[33:22] Speaker 2: martyr and a civil war. The killer could have Maga
[33:26] Speaker 2: tattooed on his eyeballs and the cult would still say
[33:30] Speaker 2: he was a Democrat. The cult is violent and deranged.
[33:35] Speaker 2: It wouldn't be an organized state versus state, let's use
[33:38] Speaker 2: capital letters civil war, but rather an ongoing and horrific
[33:43] Speaker 2: uprising that would give the new couchfucker in chief overwhelming
[33:48] Speaker 2: authority to militarily oppress everyone. The cult already considers him
[33:54] Speaker 2: a demigod, getting jfkaid with having standing next to Jesus
[34:00] Speaker 2: and proclaiming a new Holy Quaternity root for KFC not
[34:06] Speaker 2: two two three. We want McDonald's doing the job, not Macbeth.
[34:12] Speaker 2: A lightning bolt during a live speech would be nice
[34:15] Speaker 2: if we're looking for a lottery win. Marjorie Taylor Green
[34:19] Speaker 2: would surely blame the Jewish space laser, but it would
[34:23] Speaker 2: be nonetheless poetic. I myself would like a massive schemic
[34:28] Speaker 2: event that didn't kill him, but seriously gort his ass,
[34:33] Speaker 2: unable to walk or speak, but just flail and drool.
[34:37] Speaker 2: It would go a long way to breaking the spell
[34:39] Speaker 2: as he withered. Considering how much suffering he has caused.
[34:43] Speaker 2: I don't blame those who wish suffering be returned upon him,
[34:48] Speaker 2: but his lingering moment is not my motivation. As I mentioned,
[34:52] Speaker 2: it's about breaking the spell and not making him a martyr,
[34:56] Speaker 2: a dead before he hits the ground. Heart attack might
[35:00] Speaker 2: do partial work of martyring him, as the cult would
[35:03] Speaker 2: likely proclaim that we were the cause of it by
[35:06] Speaker 2: being so mean to him. He gave his life for
[35:10] Speaker 2: the office, and those dirty demon rats did everything they
[35:14] Speaker 2: could to prevent him from making things greatly racist again,
[35:19] Speaker 2: and his tremendous, bigly heart finally could take no more
[35:23] Speaker 2: giving and giving and giving, and it gave out. Some
[35:28] Speaker 2: would surely proclaim it was poison, but it wouldn't lead
[35:32] Speaker 2: to war the way an assassin's bullet would. I'll take
[35:37] Speaker 2: the massive mitocardial infarction, but a stroke would be better.
[35:41] Speaker 2: A lingering enfeeblement would help shut the followers the fuck
[35:45] Speaker 2: up more than a quick death. If you believe me, morbid,
[35:49] Speaker 2: I care the square roots of fuck all. James Fell's
[35:55] Speaker 2: writing style, it reminds me of Sybe Relliant. It just
[35:58] Speaker 2: makes me laugh. He's one of the the worst men alive,
[36:01] Speaker 2: and the world will be a better place when he's
[36:04] Speaker 2: gone because there isn't another cult leader ready to take
[36:07] Speaker 2: his place, and he didn't build a structure to last
[36:11] Speaker 2: beyond himself. L Ron Hubbard was a cult leader, but
[36:15] Speaker 2: he built scientology to last beyond his death and created
[36:20] Speaker 2: a system that keeps people locked into it. Same for Mormonism.
[36:25] Speaker 2: Joseph Smith created a church before being martyred, so there
[36:29] Speaker 2: was a powerful leader in Brigham Young waiting in the
[36:32] Speaker 2: wings to keep it going. MAGA may be a cult,
[36:36] Speaker 2: but Project twenty twenty five isn't a holy book, and
[36:39] Speaker 2: there's no church or initiation or rituals to continue to
[36:43] Speaker 2: bind people together beyond his death. It's just red hats
[36:48] Speaker 2: and a stupid four word saying that loosely binds people
[36:52] Speaker 2: together via shared hatreds. The real power is in the
[36:57] Speaker 2: worshiping of one man. So long as he's not made
[37:01] Speaker 2: a martyr, the cult won't last long past his demise
[37:05] Speaker 2: or significant debilitation. The GOP remains beholden to his every
[37:10] Speaker 2: whim because of the power of the cult, Every lawmaker
[37:14] Speaker 2: craves the retention of their power and their privilege more
[37:18] Speaker 2: than anything else, and defying the cult leader incurs the
[37:23] Speaker 2: wrath of the followers, resulting in political death. His followers
[37:28] Speaker 2: won't care near as much if lawmakers defy a newly
[37:32] Speaker 2: installed captain guyliner because they don't worship him. The perceived
[37:38] Speaker 2: strong man who is seen as both an every man
[37:42] Speaker 2: as well as an exceptional man is rare. Indeed, such
[37:46] Speaker 2: a leader is viewed as a man of the people,
[37:49] Speaker 2: and to go against him is to be an enemy
[37:52] Speaker 2: of the people. Such rulers are uncommon, but when they arise,
[37:56] Speaker 2: they can bind tens of millions together in a com
[38:00] Speaker 2: and hateful cause. Currently, there is no number two piece
[38:04] Speaker 2: of shit to whom the torch can be passed, no
[38:08] Speaker 2: institutionalization of this cult of hatred to keep them all
[38:12] Speaker 2: in Thrall. Things will not miraculously be all better if
[38:17] Speaker 2: the fatty deposits in his blood vessels suddenly stop the
[38:20] Speaker 2: transport of oxygen to his brain, but they would still
[38:25] Speaker 2: be better. Some proclaim things would not improve at all,
[38:29] Speaker 2: or perhaps even get worse under the reign of Vladimir
[38:32] Speaker 2: Futon creating his own Ottoman empire. But I don't see it.
[38:38] Speaker 2: Worm Tongue doesn't have legions of adoring fans who are
[38:42] Speaker 2: sofa king willing to taze their balls to death while
[38:47] Speaker 2: storming the capitol in his name, then neither does anyone else.
[38:52] Speaker 2: Speaking of January sixth, what would have been most preferable
[38:56] Speaker 2: was him rotting in a prison cell. But the ass
[39:00] Speaker 2: dragging Merrick Garland due processed America right out of due process.
[39:06] Speaker 2: The power of the hate cult is what got us
[39:09] Speaker 2: into this mess. America was never great. It experiences varying
[39:14] Speaker 2: degrees of in shitification, and right now it's at peak
[39:19] Speaker 2: shitty and getting more excremental each day. A couple of
[39:25] Speaker 2: clogged arteries could set the nation on a path towards
[39:28] Speaker 2: something a bit less made of poop. Come on, cholesterol,
[39:36] Speaker 2: James Fell, he cracks me up. He's got a book
[39:40] Speaker 2: that came out a few years ago where he chronicles
[39:44] Speaker 2: various moments in history in his own unique and often
[39:47] Speaker 2: profane way. In the book is appropriately titled On this
[39:51] Speaker 2: day in History, shit went down. And I would have
[39:55] Speaker 2: paid real money to be given the chance to narrate
[39:58] Speaker 2: that sucker, because I would have totally void for him.
[40:02] Speaker 2: I should have volunteered. I'm sure I don't even know
[40:05] Speaker 2: who he had narrated, but you know, that sounds like
[40:08] Speaker 2: a project I'd like to be a part of because
[40:10] Speaker 2: it's fun to read. As you can tell, I really
[40:12] Speaker 2: enjoy myself when I read his material on the show,
[40:15] Speaker 2: Him and the Sybabe. Can I link that I'll throw
[40:19] Speaker 2: it in the throw it in the chat, and I'll
[40:25] Speaker 2: mail try to remember to go back and put it
[40:27] Speaker 2: in the show notes when in the broadcast goes out,
[40:31] Speaker 2: Robert has posted and eurysm twenty twenty eight. Yeah, I
[40:36] Speaker 2: think that's a better solution. I've got four three four.
[40:41] Speaker 2: Thank you so much for calling the show. Who's this?
[40:45] Speaker 4: Hey said?
[40:45] Speaker 5: This is Tim. I actually talked to you a couple
[40:48] Speaker 5: of weeks ago. I'm so happy that I got this
[40:50] Speaker 5: part of the show because it kind of falls into
[40:52] Speaker 5: line of what you guys were talking about. I told
[40:54] Speaker 5: you while back, I came from someplace that was very conservative,
[40:57] Speaker 5: that made Oklahoma looks secular. Actually live in Lynchburg, Virginia.
[41:01] Speaker 5: I grew up literally next door to Jerry Folwell. I
[41:04] Speaker 5: knew him on a first name basis, all that kind
[41:07] Speaker 5: of stuff. And I think of like Trump. And I'm
[41:10] Speaker 5: going to push back on a little of something you
[41:12] Speaker 5: said in the last time we talked, where you said
[41:14] Speaker 5: I asked you about Mosca, Menicome and knowing the enemy,
[41:18] Speaker 5: and I'm going to push back. I don't necessarily know
[41:21] Speaker 5: if Trump is the enemy. I think Trump is more
[41:23] Speaker 5: of the mouthpiece of the enemy. Which is bad ideology.
[41:26] Speaker 5: And I think growing up I was in IFB church
[41:31] Speaker 5: and we had a lot of splits in church. The
[41:33] Speaker 5: way you get the split is not by going after
[41:35] Speaker 5: the pastor. It's by picking off the low hanging fruit
[41:39] Speaker 5: and getting people on your side and hey, the pastor
[41:41] Speaker 5: is wrong on this. And I think that that would
[41:44] Speaker 5: be in addition to peaceful protest. I think that would
[41:47] Speaker 5: be a great way. I know you've helped me come
[41:49] Speaker 5: out and tell my family I'm an atheist, and my
[41:52] Speaker 5: wife said, I'm an atheist. I mean many different things.
[41:55] Speaker 5: I think that we need to have conversations with people
[41:59] Speaker 5: because them isn't necessarily the person, it's the idea. I mean,
[42:03] Speaker 5: look at Chay Gavara, like you said about if somebody
[42:06] Speaker 5: was to do something to the president. You can kill
[42:08] Speaker 5: a man, you can't kill an idea. And I just
[42:11] Speaker 5: wanted to see what your thoughts were on it.
[42:14] Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure I understand which part you're pushing
[42:17] Speaker 2: back on. What was the statement I made when you
[42:19] Speaker 2: disagree with your statement?
[42:21] Speaker 5: When you got off, I said, you know I talked
[42:23] Speaker 5: to you about Naska and Menicum and knowing thy enemy
[42:25] Speaker 5: and your ending of it. You were talking about is
[42:28] Speaker 5: Trump my enemy? And you kind of seem to go
[42:29] Speaker 5: back and forth, and your final statement was Trump is
[42:32] Speaker 5: your enemy. And when I said, you really made me
[42:36] Speaker 5: think about it, like, you know, well, is this person
[42:38] Speaker 5: really my enemy? I think he's just a mouthpiece. I
[42:41] Speaker 5: think he's just the person that's out there spewing ideas,
[42:45] Speaker 5: and it's the people that give him the power. It's not.
[42:48] Speaker 5: I mean, Jerry fall would would have been nothing if
[42:50] Speaker 5: his church was small. So I feel like we can
[42:54] Speaker 5: combat the ideology more than we can necessarily combating the people.
[42:59] Speaker 5: If that makes sense.
[43:00] Speaker 2: I'm not sure I can divorce the two. If I'm
[43:04] Speaker 2: a person who is bigoted because I have anti LGBT ideas,
[43:11] Speaker 2: then if I may be a toxic person, I may.
[43:17] Speaker 2: Maybe I'm brainwashed. There could be a number of reasons
[43:20] Speaker 2: that I have the belief that I have. But if
[43:24] Speaker 2: you know I am an agent of anti democracy, if
[43:28] Speaker 2: I am a proponent of cruelty and all those types
[43:31] Speaker 2: of things because I have bad ideas, then I, as
[43:34] Speaker 2: a human being, must be opposed. I mean that is
[43:38] Speaker 2: that fair?
[43:39] Speaker 5: I think that I think that sometimes and I've noticed
[43:43] Speaker 5: this with people, is we tend to talk past each other,
[43:48] Speaker 5: and instead of going after the big topics, you know,
[43:51] Speaker 5: start challenging people in the small ones that jet from
[43:54] Speaker 5: cutter is do you feel like that's a good idea?
[43:57] Speaker 5: Should we take something like that?
[43:59] Speaker 2: You know?
[44:00] Speaker 5: And sometimes you can slowly bring people around. If you
[44:03] Speaker 5: just drop a frog in hot water, they jump right
[44:05] Speaker 5: back out. You got to you can't just go in
[44:08] Speaker 5: there and say, well, you know, Trump's a terrible person.
[44:10] Speaker 5: But I've even noticed in my community Lynchburg, Virginia, the
[44:13] Speaker 5: most Christian place you can be, I've even noticed some
[44:17] Speaker 5: people opening up to well, I don't really like this,
[44:21] Speaker 5: you know, and I, yeah, that's not a great idea,
[44:24] Speaker 5: And I think that's how we open the door. But
[44:26] Speaker 5: I think that a lot of times when we go
[44:28] Speaker 5: for the real, hard hitting issues, we talk past each other.
[44:32] Speaker 5: And I feel like we need to start with those
[44:34] Speaker 5: small issues where people aren't so defensive, and work our
[44:37] Speaker 5: way up to those bigger and bigger issues, because a
[44:40] Speaker 5: lot of times when you hit a hard issue with
[44:42] Speaker 5: somebody and I don't like Trump, their immediate reaction is
[44:45] Speaker 5: to get defensive and feel like you're attacking them personally.
[44:48] Speaker 5: But if you start with how do you feel about
[44:50] Speaker 5: this particularly anti Christian bias policy or this do you
[44:54] Speaker 5: feel like Christians are persecuted? And by the way, I'm
[44:57] Speaker 5: also the guy that wrote you letter. I'm pushing for
[44:59] Speaker 5: this all across the internet. The Young Holy Trinity needs
[45:02] Speaker 5: to be in the White House face.
[45:05] Speaker 2: Well, I think you and I agree. I think you know.
[45:08] Speaker 2: I gave a speech last year about how identity beliefs
[45:12] Speaker 2: and people hold on to many of these ideas for
[45:14] Speaker 2: emotional reasons, Identity branded onto them, often from youth. People
[45:19] Speaker 2: can be the proponents of bad ideas while also be
[45:22] Speaker 2: the victims of bad ideas. And I've been doing a
[45:25] Speaker 2: little bit of the same. When Donald Trump said he
[45:28] Speaker 2: didn't know if he would defend the Constitution, that was
[45:32] Speaker 2: actually a question that I asked of someone who was
[45:35] Speaker 2: a Trump supporter, and it was a way in. It wasn't,
[45:39] Speaker 2: oh my god, this man's an enemy of the Constitution.
[45:42] Speaker 2: I said, did you hear that interview that he did
[45:45] Speaker 2: on ABC where he said he didn't know if he
[45:48] Speaker 2: would defend the United States Constitution while the presidential oath
[45:52] Speaker 2: says that this is one of his main jobs. Did
[45:55] Speaker 2: you see that and what's your perspective? And it shifts
[45:58] Speaker 2: the burden onto them without making them feel unsafe.
[46:02] Speaker 5: I think you and I agree, oh absolutely, one hundred percent.
[46:07] Speaker 5: One that I've used just in the last day or
[46:09] Speaker 5: two is the suspension of habeas corpus. Most people have
[46:13] Speaker 5: no idea what that is, and they're looking at it
[46:16] Speaker 5: from this perspective of who we want to use this on? Immigrants? Yeah,
[46:20] Speaker 5: but that applies to us too, and it's one of
[46:23] Speaker 5: those you know, where does the madness stop at that point?
[46:26] Speaker 5: And sometimes you can bring people around on those small ideas.
[46:29] Speaker 5: And I think we as individuals, yes, protest is good, civilized, peaceful,
[46:35] Speaker 5: Let's get on the media. Let's let the media know
[46:37] Speaker 5: there is another side out there. But I also think
[46:40] Speaker 5: it can start with just talking to somebody, one person.
[46:43] Speaker 5: If we can get one person more on our side,
[46:47] Speaker 5: you know.
[46:47] Speaker 4: Think about it.
[46:47] Speaker 5: If everybody out there who's on the opposition of the
[46:50] Speaker 5: Republican Party, if we can at every five people, you
[46:53] Speaker 5: get one more person, well that's enough to sway the
[46:55] Speaker 5: balance of power. So I think that one of the
[46:58] Speaker 5: things we could do is just try to be more
[47:01] Speaker 5: willing to approach people and talk to things about it.
[47:05] Speaker 2: If you can convert one in five. I want your autograph.
[47:09] Speaker 4: I know that was a.
[47:14] Speaker 2: Run for you need to run for some high office
[47:17] Speaker 2: or starter religion ors. You've got more power than I've
[47:20] Speaker 2: ever seen, but I appreciate your kindness. Kindness is not weakness,
[47:25] Speaker 2: Consideration is not being a sellout. And you know, a
[47:28] Speaker 2: lot of times I think the high profile public figures
[47:31] Speaker 2: deserve when we go hard after him. And I think
[47:34] Speaker 2: there's utility in ridiculing people in power who are using
[47:37] Speaker 2: that power to oppress. We're essentially stripping them of the
[47:41] Speaker 2: seriousness that they want to embrace for themselves. But in
[47:44] Speaker 2: the one on ones, I agree, I don't walk in
[47:47] Speaker 2: and say fuck you, maga. If the goal is to
[47:51] Speaker 2: try to open their minds or bring them out of
[47:55] Speaker 2: the cult, it's going to cause them to double down, lockdown,
[47:59] Speaker 2: fight flight, or freeze. We have to provide more of
[48:03] Speaker 2: a I know people hate it when I say this,
[48:05] Speaker 2: but we have to create an atmosphere where there is
[48:07] Speaker 2: a little more safety, where they can have those moments
[48:10] Speaker 2: of consideration while being confronted with opposing ideas. And so
[48:15] Speaker 2: I mean there's merit to that. So I think you
[48:17] Speaker 2: and I largely line up on that.
[48:19] Speaker 5: My friend, well, growing up in an IFB church, you know,
[48:22] Speaker 5: we were taught homosexuality was wrong. I met a guy
[48:26] Speaker 5: who was homestid. The guy's great, He's a wonderful human being,
[48:30] Speaker 5: and I realized that the only reason I felt that
[48:33] Speaker 5: way is because that's what I was raised in. That's
[48:35] Speaker 5: what my parents taught me to be. I mean, you
[48:37] Speaker 5: can probably relate to this. I know a lot of
[48:39] Speaker 5: people that are racist just because their family is racist.
[48:42] Speaker 5: They can't provide a good reason for not liking a
[48:45] Speaker 5: group of people. And I think that that's part of
[48:48] Speaker 5: the problem is a lot of these people have been
[48:50] Speaker 5: indoctrinated in this idea, coming up. These young voters, you know,
[48:54] Speaker 5: the twenty somethings, the thirty somethings were raised by people
[48:58] Speaker 5: that had this ideology. But when you approached them directly,
[49:01] Speaker 5: they can't really give you a good reason other than
[49:04] Speaker 5: this is the way I was raised.
[49:06] Speaker 2: It's an identity, it's unconsidered, and it's often human nature.
[49:11] Speaker 2: Tribalism is links back to our primate past. We are
[49:15] Speaker 2: all meat covered skeletons. Who are you know, for better
[49:19] Speaker 2: and worse? Evolutionarily linked to our primate past. And I
[49:23] Speaker 2: think understanding tribalism and how that type of thing happens
[49:27] Speaker 2: is important, and I think it will help tool us
[49:29] Speaker 2: up for conversations we're having with other tribes as well.
[49:33] Speaker 2: I appreciate your call, my friend. It was some pleasure
[49:36] Speaker 2: to speak to you again.
[49:36] Speaker 4: Keep doing the good work, sir.
[49:38] Speaker 2: All right, thanks for calling. I'm releasing a video maybe
[49:42] Speaker 2: next month or the month after with Drew McCoy, who
[49:46] Speaker 2: is the host of Genetically Modified Skeptic, and he has
[49:50] Speaker 2: been speaking a lot about how he approaches believers with
[49:56] Speaker 2: kindness whenever possible. And you know, Drew's got this really relaxed,
[50:02] Speaker 2: kind of an easy way about him. You know, he
[50:04] Speaker 2: puts people at ease, at rest, he makes them feel calm.
[50:08] Speaker 2: And some people oppose his approach because they think it's weak,
[50:12] Speaker 2: and we were talking about that, and I just don't
[50:14] Speaker 2: think kindness is weakness. Often kindness is strength. I'm not
[50:18] Speaker 2: saying we sing kumbbai Ya with racists, but I do
[50:23] Speaker 2: think we have to walk in as creatures of consideration
[50:26] Speaker 2: to figure out, well, how did this happen? What is
[50:29] Speaker 2: their background, what are the gears in the machine, How
[50:33] Speaker 2: do we fix the machine? How can we empower them?
[50:36] Speaker 2: To do some self reflection because it has happened. You're
[50:39] Speaker 2: listening to somebody who came out of a Fox News
[50:42] Speaker 2: rush Limbaugh and Coulter Jesus is a capitalist conservative evangelicalism
[50:48] Speaker 2: and I escaped. Maybe there's hope for other people as well.
[50:51] Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying. And I think it's fair. Okay,
[50:55] Speaker 2: this seems like an appropriate time to get into some
[50:58] Speaker 2: of the science regards beliefs in the brain. We've been
[51:01] Speaker 2: talking a lot about why we bring facts to people
[51:05] Speaker 2: and people just don't care. There is a professor at
[51:09] Speaker 2: the University of Connecticut, doctor Keith Belizi. He is a
[51:14] Speaker 2: professor of gerontology in the Department of Human Development and
[51:18] Speaker 2: Family Sciences, and he pends an article for the college
[51:22] Speaker 2: called Cognitive Biases and Brain Biology help explain why facts
[51:28] Speaker 2: don't change minds. So I'm going to read that for
[51:31] Speaker 2: you in just a second. From the University of Connecticut,
[51:42] Speaker 2: Professor of Human Development and Family Sciences, doctor Keith Belizi
[51:47] Speaker 2: wrote a piece about beliefs the brain and why facts
[51:51] Speaker 2: just seem to bounce off people when we are bringing
[51:55] Speaker 2: good data to them and then we get mad frustrated.
[51:59] Speaker 2: Maybe it's the word why isn't this making a dent?
[52:02] Speaker 2: He wrote a piece called Cognitive biases and brain biology
[52:06] Speaker 2: help explain why facts don't change minds? Let me read this,
[52:12] Speaker 2: we'll get some science. Doctor Belizi says this facts First
[52:18] Speaker 2: is the tagline of a cn IN branding campaign, which
[52:22] Speaker 2: contends that once facts are established, opinions can be formed.
[52:27] Speaker 2: The problem is that while it sounds luckiable, this appealing
[52:32] Speaker 2: assertion is a fallacy not supported by research. Cognitive psychology
[52:39] Speaker 2: and neuroscience studies have found that the exact opposite is
[52:43] Speaker 2: often true. When it comes to politics. People form opinions
[52:47] Speaker 2: based on emotions such as fear, contempt, and anger, rather
[52:52] Speaker 2: than relying on facts. New facts often do not change
[52:56] Speaker 2: people's minds. I study human developp in public health and
[53:01] Speaker 2: behavior change. In my work, I see firsthand how hard
[53:05] Speaker 2: it is to change someone's mind and behaviors when they
[53:09] Speaker 2: encounter new information that runs counter to their beliefs. Your worldview,
[53:16] Speaker 2: including beliefs and opinion, starts to form during childhood as
[53:20] Speaker 2: you're socialized within a particular cultural context. It gets reinforced
[53:26] Speaker 2: over time by the social groups you keep, the media
[53:30] Speaker 2: you consume, and even how your brain functions. It influences
[53:34] Speaker 2: how you think of yourself and how you interact with
[53:38] Speaker 2: the world. For many people, a challenge to their worldview
[53:42] Speaker 2: feels like an attack on their personal identity and can
[53:46] Speaker 2: cause them to harden their position. Here's some of the
[53:50] Speaker 2: research that explains why it's natural to resist changing your
[53:54] Speaker 2: mind and how you can get better at making these shifts.
[54:00] Speaker 2: In an ideal world, rational people who encounter new evidence
[54:05] Speaker 2: that contradicts their beliefs would evaluate the facts and change
[54:08] Speaker 2: their views accordingly, but that's generally not how things go
[54:12] Speaker 2: in the real world. Partly to blame is a cognitive
[54:16] Speaker 2: bias that can kick in when people encounter evidence that
[54:20] Speaker 2: runs counter to their beliefs. Instead of reevaluating what they've
[54:25] Speaker 2: believed up until now, people tend to reject the incompatible evidence.
[54:31] Speaker 2: Psychologists call this phenomenon belief perseverance. Everyone can fall prey
[54:38] Speaker 2: to this ingrained way of thinking. Being presented with facts,
[54:43] Speaker 2: whether via the news, social media, or one on one
[54:46] Speaker 2: conversations that suggest their current beliefs are wrong, causes people
[54:52] Speaker 2: to feel threatened. This reaction is particularly strong when the
[54:56] Speaker 2: beliefs in question are aligned with your political and personal identities.
[55:02] Speaker 2: It can feel like an attack on you if one
[55:05] Speaker 2: of your strongly held beliefs is challenged. Confronting facts that
[55:10] Speaker 2: don't line up with your worldview may trigger a backfire effect,
[55:15] Speaker 2: which can end up strengthening your original position and beliefs,
[55:19] Speaker 2: particularly with politically charged issues. Researchers have identified this phenomenon
[55:25] Speaker 2: in a number of studies, including ones about opinions toward
[55:29] Speaker 2: climate change mitigation policies and attitudes toward childhood vaccinations. There's
[55:37] Speaker 2: another cognitive bias that can get in the way of
[55:40] Speaker 2: changing your mind, called confirmation bias. It's the natural tendency
[55:45] Speaker 2: to seek out information or interpret things in a way
[55:49] Speaker 2: that supports your existing beliefs. Interacting with like minded people
[55:54] Speaker 2: and media reinforces confirmation bias. The problem with confirmation bias
[56:01] Speaker 2: is that it can lead to errors in judgment because
[56:04] Speaker 2: it keeps you from looking at a situation objectively from
[56:08] Speaker 2: multiple angles. A twenty sixteen Gallup poll provides a great
[56:13] Speaker 2: example of this bias. In just one two week period
[56:17] Speaker 2: spanning the twenty sixteen election, both Republicans and Democrats drastically
[56:23] Speaker 2: changed their opinions about the state of the economy in
[56:28] Speaker 2: opposite directions, and There's a chart that is posted in
[56:32] Speaker 2: the article rating the economy before and after the twenty
[56:37] Speaker 2: six election. Before Donald Trump was put in office, most
[56:42] Speaker 2: Republicans said the economy was getting worse. As soon as
[56:45] Speaker 2: he was elected, they said it was getting better. And
[56:49] Speaker 2: there was a somewhat similar reverse effect with the Democrats. Yeah,
[56:54] Speaker 2: doctor Belize writes, but nothing was new with the economy.
[56:59] Speaker 2: What had changed was that a new political leader from
[57:02] Speaker 2: a different party had been elected. The election outcome changed
[57:07] Speaker 2: survey respondents interpretation of how the economy was doing. A
[57:12] Speaker 2: confirmation bias led Republicans to rate it much higher now
[57:16] Speaker 2: that their guy would be in charge. Democrats the opposite.
[57:22] Speaker 2: Cognitive biases are predictable patterns in the way people think
[57:26] Speaker 2: that can keep you from objectively weighing evidence and changing
[57:30] Speaker 2: your mind. Some of the basic ways your brain works
[57:33] Speaker 2: can also work against you on this front. Your brain
[57:38] Speaker 2: is hardwired to protect you, which can lead to reinforcing
[57:42] Speaker 2: your opinions and beliefs even when they're misguided. Winning a
[57:47] Speaker 2: debate or an argument triggers a flood of hormones, including
[57:52] Speaker 2: dopamine and adrenaline, in your brain. They contribute to the
[57:56] Speaker 2: feeling of pleasure you get during sex, eating, roller coaster rides,
[58:02] Speaker 2: and yes, winning an argument. That rush makes you feel good,
[58:08] Speaker 2: maybe even invulnerable. It's a feeling many people want to
[58:12] Speaker 2: have more often moreover, in situations of high stress or distressed,
[58:19] Speaker 2: your body releases another hormone, cortissoul. It can hijack your
[58:25] Speaker 2: advanced thought processes, reason, and logic, what psychologists call the
[58:31] Speaker 2: executive functions of your brain. Your brain's amygdala becomes more active,
[58:36] Speaker 2: which controls your innate fight or flight reaction when you
[58:41] Speaker 2: feel under threat. In the context of communication, people tend
[58:46] Speaker 2: to raise their voice, push back, and stop listening when
[58:50] Speaker 2: these chemicals are coursing through their bodies. Once you're in
[58:54] Speaker 2: that mindset, it's hard to hear another viewpoint. The desire
[58:58] Speaker 2: to be right, combined with the brain's protective mechanisms, make
[59:03] Speaker 2: it that much harder to change opinions and beliefs, even
[59:07] Speaker 2: in the presence of new information. In spite of the
[59:12] Speaker 2: cognitive biases and brain biology that make it hard to
[59:15] Speaker 2: change minds, there are ways to short circuit these natural habits.
[59:22] Speaker 2: Work to keep an open mind, allow yourself to learn
[59:27] Speaker 2: new things, search out perspectives from multiple sides of an issue.
[59:33] Speaker 2: Try to form and modify your opinions based on evidence
[59:37] Speaker 2: that is accurate, objective, and verified. Don't let yourself be
[59:42] Speaker 2: swayed by outliers. For example, give more weight to the
[59:48] Speaker 2: numerous doctors and public health officials who describe the preponderance
[59:53] Speaker 2: of evidence that vaccines are safe and effective, and what
[59:57] Speaker 2: you give to one fringe doctor on a podcast to
[1:00:01] Speaker 2: suggest the opposite. Be wary of repetition, as repeated statements
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: are often perceived as more truthful than new information, no
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: matter how false the claim may be. Social media manipulators
[1:00:17] Speaker 2: and politicians know this all too well. Presenting things in
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: a non confrontational way allows people to evaluate new information
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: without feeling attacked. Insulting others and suggesting someone is ignorant
[1:00:32] Speaker 2: or misinformed, no matter how misguided their beliefs may be,
[1:00:37] Speaker 2: will cause the people you're trying to influence to reject
[1:00:41] Speaker 2: your argument. Instead, try asking questions that lead the person
[1:00:46] Speaker 2: to question what they believe. While opinions may not ultimately change,
[1:00:52] Speaker 2: the chance of success is greater. Recognize we all have
[1:00:57] Speaker 2: these tendencies and respectfully listen to other opinions. Take a
[1:01:01] Speaker 2: deep breath and pause when you feel your body ramping
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: up for a fight. Remember it's okay to be wrong
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: at times. Life can be a process of growth. And
[1:01:16] Speaker 2: again that's the article by doctor Keith Belizi of the
[1:01:19] Speaker 2: University of Connecticut, Cognitive biases and brain biology help explain
[1:01:25] Speaker 2: why facts don't change minds, And being along with you
[1:01:31] Speaker 2: on the front lines of many of these conversations and
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: having felt the frustrations of the brick wall brains, I
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: understand why you might not even want to start. I
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: found myself thinking nothing's going to make a dent. I've
[1:01:47] Speaker 2: for ten years have said, well, this will be the
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: breaking point, and it just wasn't. You know, oh, this
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: will cause people to wake up from the coma, and
[1:01:57] Speaker 2: it just wasn't.
[1:01:59] Speaker 4: And so I get it.
[1:02:01] Speaker 2: If you decide not to engage and perhaps focus on
[1:02:05] Speaker 2: other targets, for lack of a better word, other opportunities
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: out there. But if you do find yourself, if I
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: find myself in direct proximity to somebody who is holding
[1:02:18] Speaker 2: onto a horrible idea, maybe there's some information here about
[1:02:23] Speaker 2: brain science that might help us not only influence someone
[1:02:27] Speaker 2: else's thinking toward better perceptions, better ideas, but maybe even
[1:02:33] Speaker 2: make us more self reflective. We are all flawed, fallible
[1:02:38] Speaker 2: human beings, and we can all be wrong. In being
[1:02:41] Speaker 2: aware of that, I think is probably one of the
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: best defenses. Okay, a bonus show is coming up here
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: later this week. I recently guest hosted, or I was
[1:02:54] Speaker 2: a guest on the God Awful Movies broadcast with No Illusions.
[1:02:59] Speaker 2: He then right, and Eli Bosnik and these guys irreverently
[1:03:04] Speaker 2: review Christian movies, and Christian movies are not as bad
[1:03:10] Speaker 2: as you think they're worse. I mean, they're just so
[1:03:15] Speaker 2: bad they're actually epic. And the GAM the God Awful
[1:03:20] Speaker 2: Movies guys review Christian movies, and they were up to
[1:03:23] Speaker 2: like show five hundred, and they invited me back for
[1:03:28] Speaker 2: a nineteen eighty classic called The Second Coming, an apocalypse
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: film that again featured bunch of stuffy preachers selling fear,
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: and so we aired that show. I guess it's been
[1:03:42] Speaker 2: a couple of months, and I asked the guys if
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: I could rebroadcast it here because we have a lot
[1:03:48] Speaker 2: of audience members who haven't heard of GAM or haven't
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: yet been over there, and I just thought it'd be
[1:03:54] Speaker 2: fun to signal boost it. So you may have already
[1:03:57] Speaker 2: heard it on the other channel, but in a few
[1:03:59] Speaker 2: days for free to everybody, patrons, etc. It's going to
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: go out on this channel and it's big fun and
[1:04:09] Speaker 2: so that's coming up in just a few days. Just
[1:04:12] Speaker 2: something extra to listen to. And I will see you
[1:04:16] Speaker 2: back here officially next week. Be safe, take care, see
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: you soon.
[1:04:22] Speaker 1: Follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a
[1:04:25] Speaker 1: complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: t shirts featuring the Thinking Atheist logo, links to atheist
[1:04:33] Speaker 1: pages and resources, and details on upcoming free thought events
[1:04:36] Speaker 1: and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist dot com.

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