# Paul Murray Live | 12 November

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 12 Nov 2025, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/ab67cda0-d09d-4fbf-9297-b39300baf94e/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

ASIO spy chief Mike Burgess sounds the alarm on Chinese state-backed hackers, Jacinta Allan's misplaced pride over new crime laws. Plus, economist Warren Hogan warns the RBA will raise the cash rate next year. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live. Well,
[0:06] Speaker 1: good evening, Welcome to the show.
[0:07] Speaker 2: I'm James Macpherson filling in for Paul Murray in the
[0:10] Speaker 2: man Cave. Coming up on tonight's program, I will in
[0:13] Speaker 2: a shadow war with China. It sounds like it if
[0:16] Speaker 2: you listen to azo Spy Chief Mike Burgess today.
[0:19] Speaker 1: I'll get into that with my panel.
[0:21] Speaker 2: Plus, if you are hoping for a rate cut next year,
[0:24] Speaker 2: think again. Economist Warren Hogan will join me to talk
[0:27] Speaker 2: about why the RBA is likely to raise them. And
[0:31] Speaker 2: wait until you see how Channel seven is promoting Elbow's
[0:35] Speaker 2: upcoming wedding. I'm not sure whether Lucy's Ellick and Stephen
[0:38] Speaker 2: Conroy will laugh or cry when I show them.
[0:41] Speaker 1: We'll get all to all of that shortly.
[0:43] Speaker 2: But first, another day in Melbourne, another solemn vow from
[0:47] Speaker 2: Premier just into Allen to get tough on crime, except
[0:50] Speaker 2: this time she really means it, apparently the fifteenth time's
[0:54] Speaker 2: a charm. Let's walk through today's performance press conference, which began,
[0:59] Speaker 2: shall we say way unconventionally, I'm.
[1:02] Speaker 3: Going to start this morning's press conference a little bit differently.
[1:06] Speaker 2: And I thought, oh good, she's finally going to take
[1:09] Speaker 2: responsibility and apologize for turning Victoria into the set of
[1:14] Speaker 2: Mad Max.
[1:15] Speaker 1: Beyond bail Reform. Who was kidding?
[1:18] Speaker 3: I'm going to start by reading an excerpt of one
[1:21] Speaker 3: of the many emails I have received as Premier about
[1:25] Speaker 3: the impact that violent youth crime has on its victims.
[1:30] Speaker 2: Well, how moving she's discovered. Victims now call me cynical,
[1:34] Speaker 2: but what I heard her read was less an email
[1:38] Speaker 2: about youth crime and more a cry for help from
[1:41] Speaker 2: someone living under Labour's soft on crime experiment. It was
[1:44] Speaker 2: an email from a woman whose husband was stabbed three
[1:48] Speaker 2: times when a young person armed with a knife that hadn't,
[1:51] Speaker 2: for reasons will never be able to fathom, been placed
[1:54] Speaker 2: in one of Jainta Ellen's machete bins. Here's the email's conclusion.
[2:00] Speaker 3: This is only my family's story, there are hundreds more.
[2:04] Speaker 3: My husband should be working, enjoying life, not doing therapy
[2:08] Speaker 3: exercises every hour. My son should be outside going for
[2:12] Speaker 3: a run, not laying on the couch frustrated and angry.
[2:17] Speaker 3: I implore you to consider the gravity of this situation
[2:21] Speaker 3: by placing yourself in my shoes.
[2:25] Speaker 1: To be sure.
[2:26] Speaker 2: A heartbreaking letter and one that deserves an apology followed
[2:30] Speaker 2: by a resignation letter attached to it, because let's not
[2:33] Speaker 2: forget it was labor that watered down bail laws, championed
[2:37] Speaker 2: jail as a last resort and insisted Melbourne was perfectly
[2:41] Speaker 2: safe right up until the machete started out numbering my
[2:44] Speaker 2: key cards. Now, instead of apologizing, justinto Allen does that
[2:49] Speaker 2: I Feel your pain routine, which, to be fair, she's
[2:52] Speaker 2: had plenty of practice at it's quite shameless.
[2:55] Speaker 3: I today want to acknowledge as premiere that everyone of
[2:59] Speaker 3: these violent youth crimes has a victim.
[3:03] Speaker 1: Groundbreaking. The woman's practically a philosopher.
[3:06] Speaker 2: This is why she's premiere because she can discern that
[3:09] Speaker 2: crimes produce victims amazing stuff.
[3:13] Speaker 3: There was more a family that has had their life disrupted,
[3:17] Speaker 3: a person that was shaken, a person who was hurt,
[3:21] Speaker 3: and we are all horrified by these violent, brazen youth
[3:25] Speaker 3: crimes and the devastating impact they have on its victims.
[3:30] Speaker 2: Well, I think victorians are horrified by violent crime. The
[3:34] Speaker 2: premiere I suspect she's horrified by polling. But if the
[3:38] Speaker 2: premiere is horrified by brazen, violent crimes or the horror
[3:43] Speaker 2: must have only occurred to her last night, because she
[3:46] Speaker 2: spent the best part of a month telling us how
[3:48] Speaker 2: safe Melbourne is.
[3:50] Speaker 3: The CBD of Melbourne is safe, and I wish to
[3:53] Speaker 3: reiterate that the Melbourne CBD is safe. Melbourne's CBD is safe.
[4:01] Speaker 2: Well, that aged like fine milk left on a sin
[4:03] Speaker 2: killed a tram, didn't it.
[4:05] Speaker 3: Police tell us that this is a new type of
[4:07] Speaker 3: crime that constantly requires new interventions.
[4:12] Speaker 2: I love how she pretends the crime crisis is new.
[4:15] Speaker 2: She pretends all of this crime has just you know,
[4:18] Speaker 2: come out of nowhere. But let's go with her assertion
[4:21] Speaker 2: that Victoria is seeing a new type of crime, by
[4:24] Speaker 2: which she means children acting up. The question then has
[4:27] Speaker 2: to be asked, who let it get to this point?
[4:30] Speaker 1: Premiere?
[4:31] Speaker 3: There are no easy solutions here.
[4:35] Speaker 2: There are no easy solutions. But the MASHETI bins. You
[4:39] Speaker 2: mean to say they weren't the silver bullet? After all
[4:43] Speaker 2: months of collecting gardening tools from the suburbs, and somehow
[4:46] Speaker 2: crime persisted. Who could have predicted? Here's the actual easy solution.
[4:52] Speaker 2: Enforce the law, den I bail to repeat offenders and
[4:55] Speaker 2: stop handing out sympathy cards instead of sentences. But When
[5:00] Speaker 2: just Into Alan says there's no easy solutions, she means
[5:03] Speaker 2: no solutions I'm willing to implement.
[5:07] Speaker 3: We know that children as parents, we know that children
[5:10] Speaker 3: need to face consequences when they do the wrong thing,
[5:14] Speaker 3: and so consequences also must apply in the justice system.
[5:19] Speaker 2: I really like the way just Into Alan talks as
[5:21] Speaker 2: a parent. It's the old I'm in this with you routine. Anyway,
[5:26] Speaker 2: kids need consequences when they do the wrong thing. Ah,
[5:30] Speaker 2: does she just realize this or does she think Victorians
[5:33] Speaker 2: don't know? She's so keen to point out that kids
[5:36] Speaker 2: need consequences. Someone in her office has arranged for her
[5:40] Speaker 2: to stand in front of a backdrop with the words
[5:42] Speaker 2: serious consequences printed on it. It's like she believes that
[5:46] Speaker 2: if she states the bleeding obvious, but with a serious
[5:48] Speaker 2: face and a grave tone, we'll all be very impressed.
[5:53] Speaker 1: So go ahead and be impressed.
[5:56] Speaker 3: There are too many victims and not enough consequences.
[6:01] Speaker 1: Well, let that sink in.
[6:03] Speaker 2: I'd argue the Victorian labor government has not had enough consequences.
[6:07] Speaker 2: Maybe next to you when the election comes to you.
[6:10] Speaker 2: So let's recap. She's told us that crimes rather have
[6:14] Speaker 2: victims She's told us that people are horrified at crime
[6:18] Speaker 2: and assured us that, despite all evidence to the contrary,
[6:20] Speaker 2: her government is too. She's told us that she's a parent,
[6:25] Speaker 2: and she's told us that kids need consequences. In other words,
[6:29] Speaker 2: she's prattled on about absolutely nothing, and then, finally, belatedly,
[6:35] Speaker 2: she comes to her big idea.
[6:38] Speaker 3: Victoria will introduce adult time for violent crime, where the
[6:44] Speaker 3: courts will treat children for these crimes like adults, where
[6:48] Speaker 3: jail will be more likely and sentences will be longer.
[6:54] Speaker 2: That is such a great idea. Truly, it's a great idea.
[6:57] Speaker 2: I can't believe Justinto Allen came up with it. Except
[7:01] Speaker 2: she didn't, did she. The Victorian liberals suggested this long ago,
[7:04] Speaker 2: and the Queensland LNP will. They've actually done it in Queensland.
[7:09] Speaker 2: They call it adult crime adult time. Just Into Ellen's
[7:13] Speaker 2: gone with adult time violent crime, so it's quite different
[7:17] Speaker 2: and unique to her personally. I'd like to see actual
[7:20] Speaker 2: time for any crime. I can make up rhyming slogans too.
[7:24] Speaker 2: See here's my problem. If the courts won't jail violent adults,
[7:29] Speaker 2: what makes just Into Ellen think they'll suddenly jail fourteen
[7:32] Speaker 2: year olds? That's not policy, that's whiplash.
[7:36] Speaker 3: By making this shift to the adult court, it significantly
[7:40] Speaker 3: increases the maximum length of sentences that will apply in
[7:45] Speaker 3: the children's court. The maximum sentencing length is three years
[7:49] Speaker 3: for any offense. In the county court, they can currently
[7:53] Speaker 3: impose sentences of up to twenty five years for aggravated
[7:56] Speaker 3: home invasion or aggravated carjacking. Our plan for adult time
[8:01] Speaker 3: for violent crime these offenses will carry a life sentence.
[8:07] Speaker 2: It wasn't that long ago that the Victorian Labor government
[8:10] Speaker 2: wanted the age of criminal responsibility.
[8:13] Speaker 1: Raised to fourteen.
[8:15] Speaker 2: Now they're boasting that they could impose lifetime jail terms
[8:19] Speaker 2: on fourteen year olds.
[8:21] Speaker 3: Will also be changing the priorities for the court to consider.
[8:25] Speaker 3: Community safety must and will come first in all sentencing decisions.
[8:30] Speaker 3: And we will also be removing the principle of jail
[8:34] Speaker 3: as a last result, as a last resort, because for
[8:37] Speaker 3: some crimes it just shouldn't be.
[8:40] Speaker 2: Ah Now, remember when Justinto Allen was saying that Victoria
[8:43] Speaker 2: is facing a new kind of brazen, violent youth crime. Well,
[8:47] Speaker 2: the reason we've got this new kind of youth crime
[8:50] Speaker 2: is because the Labor government insisted for so long on
[8:53] Speaker 2: the principle of jail as a last resort, and for
[8:56] Speaker 2: the Premier to have to announce that community safety must
[8:59] Speaker 2: and will will come first, Well that should have been
[9:02] Speaker 2: a given, shouldn't it. The problem she will continue to
[9:06] Speaker 2: have is the Victorian courts have taken upon themselves to
[9:09] Speaker 2: say that community safety might be best served by keeping
[9:13] Speaker 2: youth offenders out of jail so they don't become hardened criminals.
[9:18] Speaker 2: Until just In Allen gets the law, the police, and
[9:20] Speaker 2: the courts all on the same page, nothing is going
[9:24] Speaker 2: to change, including these insufferable press conferences where she announces
[9:30] Speaker 2: new tough on crime policies, only to repeat it all
[9:32] Speaker 2: again a few weeks.
[9:34] Speaker 3: Hence, this is the following list of the brazen and
[9:38] Speaker 3: violent crimes that will be subject to adult time for
[9:41] Speaker 3: violent crime Aggravated home invasion, home invasion intentionally causing injury
[9:48] Speaker 3: in circumstances of gross violence, including machete crimes, recklessly causing
[9:54] Speaker 3: injury in circumstances of gross violence, aggravated carjacking, aggravated burglary,
[10:01] Speaker 3: serious and repeated, Armed robbery serious and repeated.
[10:06] Speaker 1: Now I know what you're thinking.
[10:07] Speaker 2: Is she describing the list of crime subject to the
[10:10] Speaker 2: new laws or is she describing Tuesday on a Melbourne morning.
[10:15] Speaker 3: We will be introducing a bill to the Parliament to
[10:19] Speaker 3: bring about adult time for violent crime before the end
[10:22] Speaker 3: of this parliamentary year. I want adult time for violent
[10:26] Speaker 3: crime to commence as soon as possible.
[10:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't to send to Allan promised last year
[10:32] Speaker 2: that she would introduce a bill to the Victorian Parliament
[10:34] Speaker 2: to ban the wearing of face masks at protests, only
[10:38] Speaker 2: now to have a watered down version of that. So
[10:41] Speaker 2: forgive me if I don't pop the champagne just yet,
[10:45] Speaker 2: and you'll put it before the parliament this year, right,
[10:48] Speaker 2: So when will it come into effect?
[10:51] Speaker 3: We must send a very clear message and must indeed
[10:54] Speaker 3: deliver the serious consequences that need to come as a
[10:58] Speaker 3: result from people who commit these violent crimes. And it's
[11:03] Speaker 3: from listening to victims of these horrific attacks that I'm
[11:08] Speaker 3: determined to do everything I can to keep them and
[11:11] Speaker 3: our community safe.
[11:13] Speaker 2: I'm determined I'll do everything I can must deliver. So
[11:18] Speaker 2: then a journalist asked the Victorian Premier whether this legislation
[11:22] Speaker 2: to be brought to parliament by the end of the
[11:24] Speaker 2: year had been written yet and to answer, not yet.
[11:30] Speaker 2: Now I'd say something on that, but whatever I say,
[11:32] Speaker 2: I don't think it'll be better than Liberal leader Brad
[11:35] Speaker 2: Batten's response.
[11:37] Speaker 4: This is the absolute highlight of the absolute this government
[11:41] Speaker 4: feeds the community. I'm sorry you can't come out with
[11:44] Speaker 4: a media release and not have the legislation written to
[11:48] Speaker 4: protect Victorians.
[11:50] Speaker 1: That is an absolute joke. He's right, it's a joke.
[11:54] Speaker 2: Just into Ellen's tough on crime legislation is like her
[11:57] Speaker 2: economic policy, imaginary and self congratulate. In other words, it's
[12:01] Speaker 2: business as usual in Victoria. Well, now, a quick update
[12:09] Speaker 2: from COP thirty, where the only thing more dangerous than
[12:12] Speaker 2: the carbon emissions are the lies, the hypocrisy, and the
[12:15] Speaker 2: smell of sanctimony so thick it could cause its own
[12:18] Speaker 2: greenhouse effect. Let's start with the hypocrisy, and who better
[12:22] Speaker 2: to headline this year's festival of false virtue than California
[12:26] Speaker 2: Governor Gavin Newsome. Here he was in Brazil yesterday complaining
[12:31] Speaker 2: that the US President hadn't shown up. Because nothing says
[12:35] Speaker 2: climate leadership like flying ten thousand kilometers across the planet
[12:39] Speaker 2: to complain that someone else didn't.
[12:42] Speaker 5: I literally came out here. I'm stunned. I'm just stunned.
[12:47] Speaker 5: I got four kids. The hell's going on in my
[12:50] Speaker 5: country now? One person from the administration just to show
[12:55] Speaker 5: any respect to any of you, forget politics, disrespect.
[13:00] Speaker 2: We're in Brazil, so to save the planet from deadly emissions.
[13:04] Speaker 2: Gavin Newso flu ten thousand k's to drive for miles
[13:08] Speaker 2: on a four lane highway freshly cut through the middle
[13:10] Speaker 2: of the Amazon Forest to whine that Trump didn't do
[13:14] Speaker 2: the same thing. And then came the lies. Newsome, who
[13:18] Speaker 2: treats truth like California treats water with chronic mismanagement, spent
[13:23] Speaker 2: a great deal of time telling anyone who would listen
[13:26] Speaker 2: that he understands how urgent the climate crisis is because well,
[13:30] Speaker 2: the fires that tore through La earlier this year.
[13:33] Speaker 6: You're seeing it across the spectrum right now.
[13:36] Speaker 5: In my state included, which is one of the most
[13:38] Speaker 5: blessed and cursed states as it relates to climate. We're
[13:42] Speaker 5: on the tip of the sphere of climate change, simultaneous
[13:46] Speaker 5: droughts and simultaneous floods.
[13:50] Speaker 6: The hearts are getting a lot harder, The dry is dryer.
[13:53] Speaker 5: You saw one of the most devastating wildfires in American
[13:56] Speaker 5: history in the middle of winter in Los Angeles in January,
[14:02] Speaker 5: one hundred mile hour winds attached to.
[14:05] Speaker 1: Fire moving stuff.
[14:08] Speaker 2: If it were true, except the Los Angeles fires weren't
[14:12] Speaker 2: caused by climate change at all, unless climate change now
[14:15] Speaker 2: goes by the name of Jonathan Rednick, the man who
[14:18] Speaker 2: allegedly started the blaze.
[14:21] Speaker 7: Good morning, I'm Bill Seely, the acting United States Attorney
[14:25] Speaker 7: for the Central District of California. Today we are announcing
[14:29] Speaker 7: the arrest of twenty nine year old Jonathan Rinderneckt for
[14:33] Speaker 7: igniting a fire that ultimately burned down the Pala Seats
[14:37] Speaker 7: earlier this year, killing twelve people, destroying more than sixty
[14:41] Speaker 7: eight hundred structures, both homes and businesses, and damaging over
[14:46] Speaker 7: one thousand more buildings.
[14:48] Speaker 2: Not global warming, just good old fashioned alleged arson. But
[14:52] Speaker 2: don't let that ruin a good time in Brazil. Newsome
[14:55] Speaker 2: went to Brazil to brag about all the money he's
[14:58] Speaker 2: spending to fight climate change. Never mind that the Palisades
[15:02] Speaker 2: fire was made worse because he'd cut funding to the
[15:06] Speaker 2: fire department. Still, Newsom's hardly Robinson Crusoe in the carbon
[15:10] Speaker 2: hypocrisy stakes.
[15:11] Speaker 1: Here's the British Prime Minister.
[15:13] Speaker 8: Today is the first day of cop and the UK
[15:16] Speaker 8: is really stepping up here. I'm here as Prime Minister,
[15:19] Speaker 8: We've got Prince of Wales here, and what we're determined
[15:22] Speaker 8: to show is that climate change is for real. It
[15:25] Speaker 8: impacts all of us.
[15:28] Speaker 2: Or Keir Starmer and Prince William had determined to show
[15:30] Speaker 2: that climate change is real.
[15:37] Speaker 6: The time for partnership, protection and progress is now. We
[15:41] Speaker 6: know what is at sake, we know what must be done.
[15:46] Speaker 2: Well, if you know what's at stake, why are you
[15:48] Speaker 2: flying on private jets? And if you know what must
[15:51] Speaker 2: be done, it's called zoom. When they start taking sailing
[15:56] Speaker 2: ships to these conferences, well then oh listen.
[15:59] Speaker 1: Until then, the.
[16:00] Speaker 2: Only thing hotter than the planet is the sheer volume
[16:03] Speaker 2: of hypocrisy burning in Brazil this week, and honestly, if
[16:07] Speaker 2: they could harness that energy, they might actually power something useful.
[16:15] Speaker 1: Well.
[16:15] Speaker 2: Liberal MPs flew into Canberra today for a five hour
[16:18] Speaker 2: meeting on what they'll do with net zero. This is
[16:22] Speaker 2: the existential question that's occupied them since Susan Lee took
[16:25] Speaker 2: leadership of the party back in May, and then she
[16:29] Speaker 2: immediately announced that all of their policies were up for grabs.
[16:33] Speaker 9: As I have often said, our policies are up for review,
[16:36] Speaker 9: but our values are not.
[16:38] Speaker 2: So for the past six months, we haven't known where
[16:41] Speaker 2: they stand on energy policy. Well, Dan teen emerged from
[16:45] Speaker 2: today's marathon climate confessional to announce that they'll make an
[16:48] Speaker 2: announcement tomorrow.
[16:51] Speaker 10: You can all be rest assured that by around midday
[16:55] Speaker 10: tomorrow you will very clearly know what our.
[16:59] Speaker 11: Energy and emission's reduction policy is. As a Liberal party.
[17:05] Speaker 2: I suppose we've waited this long, so what's another twenty
[17:08] Speaker 2: four hours. I'm not sure exactly what the Liberal Party
[17:11] Speaker 2: stands for these days, but I know they stand for process.
[17:16] Speaker 10: Colleagues really appreciated the process. They thought that it was
[17:21] Speaker 10: fantastic that we could all come together and debate the
[17:25] Speaker 10: issues in this way.
[17:28] Speaker 2: Oh, they thought the process was fantastic. Except that's not
[17:32] Speaker 2: what some MPs were saying this morning when they arrived
[17:35] Speaker 2: for the meeting.
[17:36] Speaker 12: How are you feeling about the meeting today?
[17:39] Speaker 6: We should have this four years ago.
[17:43] Speaker 2: But back to the process, which makes quantum physics easy
[17:46] Speaker 2: to understand by comparison.
[17:48] Speaker 11: What's going to happen from here?
[17:51] Speaker 10: Obviously, this was part of the process that we've been
[17:55] Speaker 10: undertaking a four part process. It started with obviously forming
[18:02] Speaker 10: a working group under the auspices of Susan and of David.
[18:07] Speaker 10: We've had those discussions obviously, I've been having discussions one
[18:11] Speaker 10: on one with my colleagues. There's also been the process
[18:15] Speaker 10: that Simon Kennedy and Jane Hume have led.
[18:19] Speaker 11: What will follow.
[18:20] Speaker 10: After today is that I will prepare a submission that
[18:24] Speaker 10: will go to the Shadow Ministry at nine o'clock tomorrow morning,
[18:29] Speaker 10: and then myself and Susan will stand up after that
[18:33] Speaker 10: Shadow Ministry and formally announce our policy. And that policy
[18:39] Speaker 10: will have come out of that very robust and rigorous process.
[18:45] Speaker 2: I can hardly wait to vote for these guys. You
[18:48] Speaker 2: almost need a PhD In quantum physics to follow that,
[18:51] Speaker 2: except quantum physics occasionally produces something measurable. Now it's being
[18:56] Speaker 2: reported that seventeen Liberal MPs spoke in favor of net zero,
[19:00] Speaker 2: twenty fifty, well, twenty eight spoke against it. Nevertheless, Dante
[19:04] Speaker 2: and insisted the party room was united.
[19:08] Speaker 11: We were united on many many things, just.
[19:13] Speaker 2: Not on the issue being debated today, at least according
[19:16] Speaker 2: to the numbers. Now, after counting up those who spoke,
[19:19] Speaker 2: four and against net zero.
[19:21] Speaker 1: There were still.
[19:22] Speaker 2: Four Liberal MPs whose position was unclear, which is ironic
[19:26] Speaker 2: since those forcing to have carried the day. The party's
[19:29] Speaker 2: position being at this point still unclear at least to
[19:33] Speaker 2: all of us, there were some clues though, as to
[19:36] Speaker 2: where they would eventually land.
[19:39] Speaker 10: The foundation principles were very clear that energy affordability must
[19:45] Speaker 10: come first and must be the focus.
[19:48] Speaker 11: Along with reliability.
[19:50] Speaker 10: And then the second principle is that we have to
[19:53] Speaker 10: be serious when it comes to addressing a mission's reduction
[19:57] Speaker 10: because we want to be able to show so very
[20:00] Speaker 10: clearly that this is an issue the whole party room
[20:03] Speaker 10: takes seriously and we want to do our part when
[20:06] Speaker 10: it comes to emissions reduction.
[20:09] Speaker 2: So they want cheaper energy, reliable power, and to save
[20:14] Speaker 2: the planet by lowering emissions. Sounds to me like they
[20:17] Speaker 2: want a weight loss diet that includes donuts, bacon, and.
[20:20] Speaker 1: A six pack.
[20:21] Speaker 2: When pressed for details on exactly what all that meant
[20:24] Speaker 2: and how discussions went, Dantine replied with this.
[20:28] Speaker 10: I always protected the sanctity of our party room.
[20:34] Speaker 1: Others were less devout.
[20:36] Speaker 2: Opposition communications spokesperson Melissa McIntosh went on the ABC News
[20:41] Speaker 2: right after the meeting, I think.
[20:43] Speaker 13: There's pretty much an agreement that we stay in Paris,
[20:46] Speaker 13: and there's unity in the party room that we do
[20:49] Speaker 13: need to be focused on climate change and we do
[20:52] Speaker 13: need to bring down emissions. This was purely about a
[20:56] Speaker 13: discussion around these unachievable targets that we've locked into. Did
[21:01] Speaker 13: discuss about Australia's opportunities for.
[21:05] Speaker 12: Our nation in the future.
[21:06] Speaker 13: We need to be also looking at other alternative power
[21:10] Speaker 13: options like clear are there.
[21:12] Speaker 2: So the Liberal Party will remain committed to the Powis
[21:15] Speaker 2: Agreement and convinced that emissions must be reduced in order
[21:18] Speaker 2: to combat climate change, but they'll avoid Chris Bowen's targets
[21:22] Speaker 2: that seem both clearly unachievable and causing electricity be unaffordable
[21:26] Speaker 2: and unreliable. It took six months for that. It'll all
[21:32] Speaker 2: be clear tomorrow. Well, we're going to go to a break.
[21:35] Speaker 2: But coming up shortly, Australia's spy chief Mike Burgess issues
[21:39] Speaker 2: his strongest warning yet over cyber espionage from foreign states.
[21:44] Speaker 2: And I'm want to show you how Channel seven are
[21:46] Speaker 2: promoting Elbow's upcoming nuptials. I cannot wait to see how
[21:50] Speaker 2: Lucy esz Ellick and Stephen Conroy react, that's next.
[22:00] Speaker 1: Back to the program now.
[22:01] Speaker 2: As I said before the break, the Liberal Party are
[22:03] Speaker 2: set to unveil their climate policy tomorrow at noon, after
[22:07] Speaker 2: a marathon meeting today at which conservatives like Angus Taylor
[22:10] Speaker 2: and Andrew Hasty pushed to scrapnet zero, while moderates warned
[22:14] Speaker 2: that doing so could cost votes. And now Jim Chalmers
[22:17] Speaker 2: has jumped in with a statement saying, and I quote, Cleaner, cheaper,
[22:22] Speaker 2: more reliable and increasingly renewable energy is the best way
[22:26] Speaker 2: to grow and strengthen our economy into the future, and
[22:29] Speaker 2: we call on the Coalition not to sacrifice that to
[22:32] Speaker 2: their right wing extremism. Joining me now to discuss is
[22:36] Speaker 2: broadcaster to Lucy's Elk and former Labor senator Stephen Conroy.
[22:41] Speaker 1: Welcome to you both, Lucy. I'll start with you.
[22:43] Speaker 2: I'm annoyed by how long this has taken the Liberal Party. Now,
[22:48] Speaker 2: am I mistaken? Or maybe process is really important?
[22:51] Speaker 9: Oh, you don't want to ask Steven about this issue
[22:53] Speaker 9: because he's so bettered down in this idea that he's
[22:56] Speaker 9: had to be a part of the process. And they
[22:58] Speaker 9: had to go through all of this and the consultation
[23:01] Speaker 9: and the listening tour and everything. I am frustrated with
[23:03] Speaker 9: how long it's taken, but only because it has been
[23:05] Speaker 9: such a debarcle stretching back to the disaster on May
[23:08] Speaker 9: three with the election result, and to now how things
[23:11] Speaker 9: have unfolded. I think so many of us have had
[23:13] Speaker 9: our views on what we think of Susan Lee as
[23:16] Speaker 9: the leader of this party, if she was the right
[23:18] Speaker 9: person for the job, or if it was just a
[23:20] Speaker 9: cosmetic decision to try and appease everybody who constantly complained
[23:24] Speaker 9: that the Liberal Party had an issue with women. But ultimately,
[23:28] Speaker 9: now when it comes to this, make your minds up.
[23:31] Speaker 12: Already enough is enough?
[23:33] Speaker 9: You have both, particularly for Susan Lee, who has been
[23:35] Speaker 9: in politics for over two decades, understands very well what
[23:39] Speaker 9: goes on when it concerns energy policy and what should
[23:43] Speaker 9: be the best pathway forward. If you don't know, by now,
[23:46] Speaker 9: we have serious and far bigger problems than what's already
[23:50] Speaker 9: going on with the factionism within this party.
[23:52] Speaker 1: And I think we do. That's a scary thing.
[23:54] Speaker 2: But Stephen, the weird thing to me about Susan Lee
[23:56] Speaker 2: talking about her leadership is I still don't know. May
[24:00] Speaker 2: you've heard and I missed it, but I still don't
[24:02] Speaker 2: know where she stands on the issue of net zero.
[24:06] Speaker 2: That doesn't sound like leadership to me.
[24:11] Speaker 14: Well, look, the first thing is that Susan isn't actually
[24:14] Speaker 14: one of the moderate left wingers. Susan wanted the job
[24:17] Speaker 14: a right winger was running against, and she was more
[24:21] Speaker 14: center right than a moderate left wing liberal. But the
[24:26] Speaker 14: left wingers didn't want Angus Taylor, so they got behind Susan.
[24:32] Speaker 14: And so she's caught between needing to try and keep
[24:35] Speaker 14: her base for leadership the moderate left wing liberals, but
[24:41] Speaker 14: she's always leaned more into the center right camp. So
[24:45] Speaker 14: the reason she's so conflicted is because she has to
[24:50] Speaker 14: keep those moderate liberals on board or her leadership's finished.
[24:54] Speaker 14: It probably is finished, but that's where her dilamera and
[24:57] Speaker 14: if you to take your words, are like a leadership.
[25:00] Speaker 14: But can I just say, as a labor a person
[25:03] Speaker 14: of forty plus years, I rejoice at watching the Liberal
[25:08] Speaker 14: Party absolutely self immolate where they decide that they don't
[25:13] Speaker 14: care what Liberal Party voters think.
[25:18] Speaker 9: I start paying to the middle energy bills, you'll come
[25:22] Speaker 9: over to the dark side is on the wrong side,
[25:25] Speaker 9: and we will get them.
[25:26] Speaker 12: You to the liberal predicting.
[25:29] Speaker 14: You have been predicting that since twenty thirteen with Tony Abbott.
[25:35] Speaker 14: But you can't ignore Lucy that Malcolm Turmbul, Scott Morrison,
[25:39] Speaker 14: Peter Darton all committed to twenty fifty net zero?
[25:45] Speaker 1: Are they?
[25:46] Speaker 6: And now you're going to side also you're going to.
[25:49] Speaker 9: Has also since acknowledged that it was a mistake. He's
[25:52] Speaker 9: also acknowledged it was a mistake, and we are allowed
[25:55] Speaker 9: to do that in politics.
[25:56] Speaker 12: In fact, it is more honorable. I don't break that
[25:59] Speaker 12: it is a mistake.
[26:01] Speaker 6: I don't want to break your heart.
[26:03] Speaker 14: But you're quoting a man who could couldn't stay as
[26:06] Speaker 14: Prime Minister of this country for more because he.
[26:08] Speaker 9: Had a disturbed individual like Mountain time Ball with his
[26:13] Speaker 9: knife out role to stab him in the back.
[26:17] Speaker 6: You trust miss Tony Abbott.
[26:19] Speaker 14: Did you, miss Tony Abbott, stabbing Malcolm Turbul in the
[26:23] Speaker 14: back somewhere in there?
[26:25] Speaker 6: Just not remember that?
[26:25] Speaker 1: And I think we all clear.
[26:28] Speaker 12: I can see that Malcolm.
[26:29] Speaker 14: The person that you are saying, the person you were
[26:33] Speaker 14: saying is the political purist that we should follow, couldn't
[26:37] Speaker 14: keep his job as Prime Minister Australia more than eighteen
[26:39] Speaker 14: months before his own party threw him out.
[26:41] Speaker 6: But he's the guy who want to take advice from
[26:43] Speaker 6: him back how to win an election in twenty twenty eight.
[26:45] Speaker 14: Well, Stephen, let me win thirteen to twenty fourteen he
[26:49] Speaker 14: was Prime minister. Your next election is twenty twenty eight.
[26:53] Speaker 14: You steel free to take the advice of someone who
[26:55] Speaker 14: couldn't keep his job for more than eighteen months.
[26:57] Speaker 2: Well, Stephen, the Treasurer Jim Charmers want the coalition to
[27:01] Speaker 2: take his advice.
[27:02] Speaker 1: He's calling them extremists if.
[27:04] Speaker 2: They reject net zero when his government is pushing renewables
[27:09] Speaker 2: that are sending bills through the roof.
[27:11] Speaker 1: Who's the extremist here?
[27:13] Speaker 14: Well, I think Gym is being soft. I think there
[27:15] Speaker 14: are a bunch of knuckle draggers. I mean, Australians overwhelmingly
[27:20] Speaker 14: want renewable energy. We have the highest, the highest per
[27:24] Speaker 14: capita solar panel installations in the world.
[27:28] Speaker 12: And how.
[27:31] Speaker 9: About that working out for Australian taxpayers and those who
[27:34] Speaker 9: are doing it tough?
[27:35] Speaker 6: Right now?
[27:36] Speaker 14: Steve, Where's where's your Where is your investment in coal
[27:39] Speaker 14: fired POWERstation? Matt Canniban, I love Matt. I think it's fantastic.
[27:42] Speaker 14: I just think he's wasting his political career. Matt Canavan
[27:45] Speaker 14: spent nine years, even when he was a senior cabinet
[27:49] Speaker 14: mister in charge of a fund that could fund this,
[27:51] Speaker 14: demanding that the Liberal National Parties coalition pay for a
[27:56] Speaker 14: new coal fire POWERstation. Nine years now you're trying to
[28:01] Speaker 14: say we want cold fire passtations to stay up longer.
[28:04] Speaker 14: I agree, but cal fire powerstations are on their last
[28:09] Speaker 14: legs because for nine years federally for I mean, most
[28:13] Speaker 14: of those closures were announced while the federal Liberal Party
[28:17] Speaker 14: were in government. You had Matt Keene in New South
[28:19] Speaker 14: Wales closing them down. You've got Chris the Premier of Queensland.
[28:25] Speaker 14: He actually is sticking with climate targets. Chris of Fay,
[28:28] Speaker 14: thank you. He's sticking with climate policy. The Tasmanian guy
[28:32] Speaker 14: is sticking with climate policy. Number of dragons in the
[28:35] Speaker 14: federal levels. The purity, Oh to be pure?
[28:37] Speaker 12: I love it, okay, So then explain to me.
[28:40] Speaker 6: Explain to me.
[28:41] Speaker 12: So explain to me.
[28:42] Speaker 9: Are we supposed to go all that all that way
[28:45] Speaker 9: back now, Stephen and try and blame the Liberal Party
[28:49] Speaker 9: for the existing energy problem at the moment, So the
[28:52] Speaker 9: Liberal Party of over a decade ago to blame for
[28:56] Speaker 9: my energy bills at the moment, which stem way over
[28:59] Speaker 9: one thousand dollars. Is it still their fault even after
[29:02] Speaker 9: we've had the Albanesi government in power for the last
[29:05] Speaker 9: three years.
[29:07] Speaker 6: Well, if your argument is that we coal fire power stations.
[29:10] Speaker 12: No, no, just answer the question is it still?
[29:13] Speaker 1: Is it still the is yes?
[29:15] Speaker 14: Because they closed down on the Liberals White. You don't
[29:19] Speaker 14: get to go if only we had more cal fire pawstations.
[29:22] Speaker 6: You and government, I if you.
[29:24] Speaker 14: Believe that coal fire power stations are the solution, why
[29:28] Speaker 14: did you let so many close?
[29:29] Speaker 12: Even I don't disagree with you. I disagree with you
[29:32] Speaker 12: on that point.
[29:33] Speaker 9: But the point that I want you to also specifically
[29:36] Speaker 9: acknowledge is that renewable energy is not helping the problem.
[29:40] Speaker 9: It is not the messiah as it's been described by
[29:44] Speaker 9: the Labor Party and the Albanesi government.
[29:48] Speaker 14: Just like the New South Wales government have extended the
[29:51] Speaker 14: life of a coal fire POWERstation, New South Wales correct
[29:54] Speaker 14: the best solution. We're building and supporting more gas coming.
[29:59] Speaker 6: Out of the ground.
[30:00] Speaker 14: That's actually what's going on at the moment. We're managing
[30:04] Speaker 14: the transition from coal gas ultimately, but gas is a
[30:09] Speaker 14: vital part of this equation and renewaballs into the future.
[30:13] Speaker 14: That's what Australians want to see. That's what they keep
[30:15] Speaker 14: voting for. That's what every poll, including the one handed
[30:18] Speaker 14: handed to the Liberal Party.
[30:21] Speaker 12: No, they said, no, that's here.
[30:23] Speaker 1: Here's what I Here's what I know, and that.
[30:25] Speaker 14: Is Liberal Party research is wrong.
[30:29] Speaker 1: Everybody want research is wrong.
[30:30] Speaker 11: Now.
[30:30] Speaker 1: Everyone wants their power bills to come down.
[30:33] Speaker 2: And I'm not convinced after what I've seen from the
[30:36] Speaker 2: Liberal Party today that they're going to offer that much
[30:39] Speaker 2: better than labor other than just a slower version of
[30:42] Speaker 2: what's already happening.
[30:43] Speaker 1: We'll watch tomorrow to see what they come up with.
[30:46] Speaker 2: I want to ask you both about Anthony Albanese's upcoming wedding.
[30:52] Speaker 2: While the Coalition are arguing over policy, the PM is
[30:54] Speaker 2: preparing for his wedding to Jody Hayden.
[30:57] Speaker 1: It's tipped to take place just before Christmas.
[30:59] Speaker 2: Now check out how Channel seven promoting the story here.
[31:03] Speaker 1: It is the countdowns on for Australia's royal wedding. Lucy.
[31:09] Speaker 1: Channel seven have lost the plot, haven't.
[31:11] Speaker 12: They don't call it the royal Wedding.
[31:13] Speaker 9: I mean, look, do you know what at some point
[31:15] Speaker 9: where as human beings have to really tap into that fact.
[31:18] Speaker 12: Right.
[31:18] Speaker 9: We may disagree when it comes to politics, but I
[31:21] Speaker 9: still respect Anthony ALBERANIZI.
[31:23] Speaker 12: He's the Prime Minister.
[31:24] Speaker 9: Of our country and the fact that he's getting married,
[31:26] Speaker 9: I think is a wonderful occasion. But is it absolutely
[31:29] Speaker 9: insane to refer to it as the royal wedding? Is
[31:32] Speaker 9: it hyperbolic? Is it sensationalist? Is it stupid?
[31:35] Speaker 5: Yes?
[31:35] Speaker 12: It is. I'm sorry, with all due respect, it is
[31:38] Speaker 12: not a royal wedding.
[31:39] Speaker 2: Stephen, how do you think Elbow, a Republican would feel
[31:42] Speaker 2: about the fact he's having a royal wedding.
[31:47] Speaker 6: Well, I'm with Lucy on this one. Goodness, a royal wedding. Look,
[31:55] Speaker 6: let's be happy for Albau and Joe.
[31:58] Speaker 14: Good on them and everyone you know always enjoys a
[32:04] Speaker 14: wedding and those sorts of things. But to elevate it
[32:07] Speaker 14: to a raw wedding, well, I don't mean Albo and
[32:11] Speaker 14: Joe want that, but I'm one hundredercent agree with both
[32:16] Speaker 14: of you. The raw wedding concept really needs to die tomorrow.
[32:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, And just to be fair again, I know you
[32:23] Speaker 2: said this, Stephen, but it's not Elbow claiming he's having
[32:26] Speaker 2: a royal wedding. It's that's the way Channel seven hyping
[32:30] Speaker 2: it up.
[32:31] Speaker 6: All right.
[32:31] Speaker 2: Finally some common sense out of Victoria. I was talking
[32:33] Speaker 2: about it earlier, just into Allen announcing a dramatic crackdown
[32:37] Speaker 2: on violent youth crime, with offenders as young as fourteen
[32:39] Speaker 2: now facing adult courts. Life in prison will be the
[32:43] Speaker 2: maximum jail sentence for things like aggravated home invasion, aggravated carjacking,
[32:48] Speaker 2: other serious offenses will carry up to twenty to twenty
[32:51] Speaker 2: five years jail.
[32:52] Speaker 1: Here's some of what she said.
[32:54] Speaker 3: Victoria will introduce adult time for violent crime, where the
[33:00] Speaker 3: courts will treat children for these crimes like adults, where
[33:05] Speaker 3: jail will be more likely and sentences will be longer.
[33:09] Speaker 1: Lucy is Leck. Is this a good policy from the
[33:12] Speaker 1: Victorian premiere?
[33:13] Speaker 9: Of course it is, But why did it take her
[33:14] Speaker 9: so long to arrive to this point? I mean, you
[33:17] Speaker 9: have had this issue boiling over in Melbourne for some
[33:20] Speaker 9: time now, and people have been crying out, particularly victims,
[33:23] Speaker 9: for change in this space, for our courts to recognize
[33:26] Speaker 9: that serious punishments need to be handed out and I
[33:29] Speaker 9: tell you what, if I hear the word Dolly incapacts
[33:32] Speaker 9: the two words one more time, I think I'm going
[33:35] Speaker 9: to scream because we often refer to and I'm sure
[33:37] Speaker 9: that there will be a lot of human rights and
[33:39] Speaker 9: legal experts who will come out.
[33:40] Speaker 12: And travel there.
[33:41] Speaker 1: There are already is.
[33:42] Speaker 9: Of course, they're screeching as it is, But you know,
[33:45] Speaker 9: when you think about what's actually occurring there, and the
[33:47] Speaker 9: violence that is involved in these crimes, and the fact
[33:50] Speaker 9: that these are young children committing them, these are calculated crimes.
[33:55] Speaker 9: You cannot tell me that they are not aware of
[33:57] Speaker 9: what they're doing when they are masking their faces up,
[34:00] Speaker 9: rubbing knives, breaking.
[34:01] Speaker 12: Into people's homes, stealing cars.
[34:03] Speaker 9: These are horrific crimes of which there are serious consequences
[34:07] Speaker 9: for the victims, but as it stands, not for them.
[34:10] Speaker 9: The issue is now that I think we only have
[34:12] Speaker 9: about nine days left of Parliament for them to try
[34:16] Speaker 9: and be able to resolve this and get it through.
[34:18] Speaker 9: And I know that brad Batten was deeply insulted on
[34:20] Speaker 9: behalf of the victims because of this, because he felt
[34:23] Speaker 9: like it wasn't something that was handled in a more
[34:26] Speaker 9: thorough and efficient way. It seems like this is a
[34:28] Speaker 9: half baked legislation that hasn't been given even more thoughts.
[34:32] Speaker 9: So you know, it's is it too little too late?
[34:35] Speaker 9: I don't want to say that because they had to
[34:37] Speaker 9: do something, but too much has happened for us to
[34:41] Speaker 9: be able to see.
[34:41] Speaker 2: It's funny when you ask too little too late, because
[34:44] Speaker 2: you could ask that question from two fronts. Is it
[34:46] Speaker 2: too little too late to solve the crime crisis? And
[34:49] Speaker 2: might it be too little too late for Jacinta Allen Stephen?
[34:52] Speaker 2: Is this a sign that the next election isn't the
[34:54] Speaker 2: slam dunk? Maybe a lot of people are assuming it is.
[34:57] Speaker 2: She's done a complete backflip here.
[35:01] Speaker 14: Yeah. Well look, I mean, if the Liberal Party could
[35:03] Speaker 14: find a leader who could read right not dribble on camera,
[35:07] Speaker 14: they might be more competitive. But I just think that
[35:10] Speaker 14: the Allen governments have finally said enough is enough. They've
[35:15] Speaker 14: said the youth advocates and those legal aid or organizations,
[35:20] Speaker 14: they are just wrong.
[35:22] Speaker 6: The legal aid advocates do.
[35:24] Speaker 14: Not want to accept for these kids aren't from some
[35:27] Speaker 14: broken family where you know their parents have mistreated them
[35:31] Speaker 14: or whatever. This is part of an organized crime gang operation.
[35:37] Speaker 14: The crime gangs pay these kids to break into people's homes,
[35:41] Speaker 14: threaten them with machetes, steal the cars. What do they
[35:44] Speaker 14: think they're doing with the cars that are handing them back.
[35:46] Speaker 14: This is part of an organized crime ring who've been
[35:48] Speaker 14: exploiting the laws, and the Allen government has said enough
[35:53] Speaker 14: is enough and they want to see an end to it.
[35:57] Speaker 14: And that is a good thing and should be gratulated
[36:01] Speaker 14: the governments because those child advocates just will not accept
[36:07] Speaker 14: what is really going on, and they hide behind these
[36:11] Speaker 14: principles and want to pretend that organized crime is not
[36:14] Speaker 14: manipulating and paying these kids to go and do what
[36:17] Speaker 14: they've been doing.
[36:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say the Labor government's been not admitting what's
[36:21] Speaker 2: been going on either, but finally maybe they've come to
[36:25] Speaker 2: their senses. Not on drug injecting rooms, though I must
[36:28] Speaker 2: point out the government's injecting room in North Richmond has
[36:32] Speaker 2: been controversial since its inception, mainly because it was set
[36:35] Speaker 2: up adjacent to a primary school. Well now the Yarra
[36:38] Speaker 2: Council have had enough and the petitioning just into Ellen
[36:41] Speaker 2: to move it, but she says the facility stays because
[36:44] Speaker 2: it's saving lives.
[36:45] Speaker 1: Lucy. This seems to be a theme with just.
[36:48] Speaker 2: Into Allen, whether it's people voting no to the voice,
[36:51] Speaker 2: yet she institutes a treaty. She repeatedly said there's no
[36:55] Speaker 2: problem in Melbourne, it's safe, while people were being victimized
[37:00] Speaker 2: by crime, and now she says an injecting room next
[37:03] Speaker 2: to a primary school. Don't care what the council say,
[37:06] Speaker 2: don't care what residents say.
[37:08] Speaker 1: It stays. Does she ever listen to people? Honestly, there's
[37:12] Speaker 1: nothing like.
[37:12] Speaker 12: Living in a democracy.
[37:13] Speaker 9: Is there in this country or in the state of
[37:16] Speaker 9: Victoria as it seems. And I'm just I'm so heartbroken
[37:19] Speaker 9: for these children who are exposed to this.
[37:22] Speaker 12: I know in particular that Shadow Minister for Mental Health
[37:24] Speaker 12: Emma Heeley said that some of these children are.
[37:27] Speaker 9: Exposed to drug dealing, sex acts that are actually being
[37:31] Speaker 9: performed dead bodies, and having someone.
[37:33] Speaker 12: Wield a machete on school grounds.
[37:36] Speaker 9: The question that I would love to ask the Premier
[37:38] Speaker 9: and anyone who is in storuch defense of these injecting rooms,
[37:42] Speaker 9: of which I am so highly opposed to. Right likewise,
[37:45] Speaker 9: with pill testing, drugs are illegal and it doesn't seem
[37:49] Speaker 9: to be solving the problem. It just seems to be
[37:51] Speaker 9: giving them a place where they can go and inject
[37:52] Speaker 9: themselves and continue to fuel this drug habit.
[37:55] Speaker 12: It is not solving the issue.
[37:57] Speaker 9: We can argue that prison also isn't solving the issue,
[37:59] Speaker 9: but at least it's getting them clean, and it's putting
[38:02] Speaker 9: them in an environment where there are consequences for taking
[38:04] Speaker 9: these illegal substances.
[38:06] Speaker 12: Remember, drugs are illegal.
[38:09] Speaker 9: The issue that I have with this is that we
[38:11] Speaker 9: are literally talking about these two these two buildings right
[38:16] Speaker 9: so the school as well as this injecting center. They
[38:19] Speaker 9: are no more than twenty five to thirty meters apart.
[38:23] Speaker 9: This never ever should have happened when it was introduced
[38:26] Speaker 9: in twenty eighteen. And the fact that Justinto Allan cannot
[38:29] Speaker 9: acknowledge that it is so inappropriate to have something like
[38:33] Speaker 9: this in close proximity to a school is just mind blowing.
[38:37] Speaker 2: So Stephen Conroy, maybe help us understand the mind of
[38:40] Speaker 2: just Into Allen. Why doesn't she see what seems to
[38:44] Speaker 2: be pretty obvious to I assume you certainly, Lucy, and I.
[38:49] Speaker 14: Well, look, first, you've got a little bit of history.
[38:53] Speaker 14: The Yarra Council has been run by Trots for as
[38:55] Speaker 14: long as I can remember, and they were barracking hard
[38:58] Speaker 14: for this.
[38:58] Speaker 6: They were pretty much still a different bunch of Trots.
[39:01] Speaker 14: A different bunch of Trots are still there. So I'm
[39:04] Speaker 14: quite shocked. I'm quite shocked. I've never been comfortable with
[39:08] Speaker 14: the venue. I don't think the government's arguments in the
[39:13] Speaker 14: past are stacked up. They said that it doesn't lead
[39:15] Speaker 14: to this, it doesn't lead to that, it doesn't lead to,
[39:18] Speaker 14: you know, being a honeypot if I could use that phrase,
[39:21] Speaker 14: and clearly it has so I think the government needs
[39:24] Speaker 14: to rethink the site.
[39:28] Speaker 6: It's become.
[39:29] Speaker 14: You know, when the local Trot council abandon you, you
[39:32] Speaker 14: really do need to start thinking, maybe I've got this wrong.
[39:35] Speaker 6: What you know?
[39:35] Speaker 9: The question, the ultimate question that needs to be asked
[39:37] Speaker 9: of this is would just senter Alan feel comfortable sending.
[39:40] Speaker 12: Her child to that school?
[39:41] Speaker 9: Of course not, would anyone feel comfortable living next to
[39:44] Speaker 9: one of these, including the Greens MPs who are rallying
[39:48] Speaker 9: and advocating for this.
[39:49] Speaker 1: We're going to go to a break.
[39:50] Speaker 2: But of course the reason she can have it there
[39:52] Speaker 2: is because her kids don't go to that school. Lisus,
[39:55] Speaker 2: Alex Stephen Conroy always enjoy catching up with you both.
[39:58] Speaker 1: Thanks for your time.
[39:59] Speaker 2: All right, if you are hope being for a rate
[40:01] Speaker 2: cut in the new year, you're going to be disappointed.
[40:04] Speaker 2: Economist Warren Hogan will explain why after this Welcome back
[40:14] Speaker 2: to the program. Well, it's the warning no Australian homeowner
[40:17] Speaker 2: wants to hear. Interest rates could be heading back up
[40:20] Speaker 2: as soon as May next year after months of rate
[40:23] Speaker 2: cuts and talk of economic soft landings. Economist Warren Hogan
[40:27] Speaker 2: says the Reserve Bank may have no choice but to
[40:30] Speaker 2: lift rates as government spending continues to fuel demand. The
[40:34] Speaker 2: RBA's latest update signals there's little room left for future cuts.
[40:39] Speaker 15: You might worry about how much remaining room there is
[40:42] Speaker 15: given that picture of capacity pressures. You might think the
[40:48] Speaker 15: economy is a little bit boxed in by our supply capacity.
[40:52] Speaker 2: And Warren Hogan says that's code for a rate hike
[40:56] Speaker 2: on the horizon. If that happens, it'd be a terrible
[41:00] Speaker 2: hit to millions of mortgage holders, just as cost of
[41:02] Speaker 2: living pressures were starting to ease. Joining me now is
[41:06] Speaker 2: the economist Warren Hogan. Warren, welcome to the program. You're
[41:10] Speaker 2: saying the next move from the RBA is probably up,
[41:15] Speaker 2: not down, even while business investments flat and growth is weak.
[41:19] Speaker 1: What's driving that call?
[41:22] Speaker 16: Yeah, good evening, James. It's really just a reading on
[41:26] Speaker 16: the underlying dynamics of the economy. That is, we are
[41:29] Speaker 16: now in a recovery after the big slowdown in consumer
[41:33] Speaker 16: spending in twenty three and twenty twenty four, and of
[41:37] Speaker 16: course that's translated into a pickup in business activity, and
[41:41] Speaker 16: the next phase should be a pick up in business
[41:44] Speaker 16: investment as confidence has started to improve. But the big
[41:48] Speaker 16: point and the big bit of information we got was
[41:51] Speaker 16: that higher inflation number for the September quarter, which shows
[41:54] Speaker 16: that the process of inflation falling has at the very
[41:59] Speaker 16: least stopped and stopped probably at the top of the
[42:01] Speaker 16: RBAS two to three percent target ban. And of course
[42:04] Speaker 16: inflation lags it comes after the economic cycle, So if
[42:08] Speaker 16: the economy keeps improving in the next year, you should
[42:12] Speaker 16: be expecting inflation to pick up, in which case the
[42:15] Speaker 16: RBA certainly has no room for cutting more and they
[42:18] Speaker 16: may be drawn into a few a few rate hikes.
[42:21] Speaker 16: If inflation starts rising up towards four percent, that's all
[42:25] Speaker 16: remains to be seen, and of course we could still
[42:27] Speaker 16: get rate cuts if something terrible happens in the economy,
[42:30] Speaker 16: but it wouldn't be a good reason for rate cuts.
[42:33] Speaker 2: I've got to ask you, is the RBA starting to
[42:36] Speaker 2: run out of patients with Canberra's big spending budgets, and
[42:39] Speaker 2: of course the public service continues to grow, which puts
[42:43] Speaker 2: pressure on wages. There's only so much the RBA can
[42:47] Speaker 2: do to keep inflation under control, is there not? The
[42:50] Speaker 2: government has to take some responsibility.
[42:53] Speaker 6: Certainly.
[42:54] Speaker 16: We've seen one of the biggest shifts up in the
[42:57] Speaker 16: presence of government in our economy in fifty years, and
[43:00] Speaker 16: this has been going on for about eight years, but
[43:02] Speaker 16: we've really seen it pick up in the last three
[43:04] Speaker 16: or four years. And of course we are in a
[43:07] Speaker 16: completely different demographic situation to the fifty years before the pandemic,
[43:13] Speaker 16: where we now have structural labor shortages. So the government's
[43:17] Speaker 16: out there actively competing with the private sector and to
[43:19] Speaker 16: your point, and that creates wage pressures eventually. So the
[43:22] Speaker 16: government does have a role or responsibility if this does
[43:26] Speaker 16: go from bad to worse in terms of business costs
[43:29] Speaker 16: and inflation. But of course the RBA would never come
[43:33] Speaker 16: out and say that. They've got to be very careful
[43:35] Speaker 16: with the words they choose. But that is a reality
[43:38] Speaker 16: of the situation and why governments all around Australia need
[43:42] Speaker 16: to really reign in their recurrent spending. They should knock
[43:46] Speaker 16: themselves out with investment, because that's the point the Deputy
[43:50] Speaker 16: governor you just had up on was making. The capacity
[43:53] Speaker 16: can be increased in our economy through investment and infrastructure
[43:57] Speaker 16: in new facilities, new technology. But we've started from a
[44:01] Speaker 16: point of little spare capacity, so any increase in spending,
[44:05] Speaker 16: whether it's consumer or business spending, could potentially put inflation
[44:09] Speaker 16: presses in there.
[44:10] Speaker 2: And of course, if wages keep rising because it's a
[44:14] Speaker 2: tight labor market, the government are employing plenty of people
[44:16] Speaker 2: that the private sector then cannot. If wages keep rising
[44:20] Speaker 2: without productivity gains, the government doesn't produce anything. Well, is
[44:25] Speaker 2: that the inflation fus We should all be really watching
[44:28] Speaker 2: wage growth?
[44:30] Speaker 16: Well, it is. It's the biggest cost in the economy.
[44:32] Speaker 16: And the reality is is that business costs never really
[44:36] Speaker 16: fell much belower five percent growth rate at any stage
[44:40] Speaker 16: in the last few years. The leg down in inflation
[44:43] Speaker 16: consumer prices from four to three was because business margins
[44:48] Speaker 16: were squeezed. They're now finding a bit more demand and
[44:52] Speaker 16: a bit more scope to protect margins and pass on
[44:55] Speaker 16: those costs. And it's normal business activity to pass on
[44:59] Speaker 16: your cost to consume. And of course if we just
[45:02] Speaker 16: start picking up without any productivity offset, then it's just
[45:05] Speaker 16: going to see those business costs intensify. And so yeah,
[45:09] Speaker 16: this is not a good position to be standing in
[45:11] Speaker 16: if you want to see the economy expand we'd have to.
[45:14] Speaker 1: Go to a break in just a moment.
[45:16] Speaker 2: But I did want to ask you before we go
[45:17] Speaker 2: to the break, what kind of pain are we talking
[45:20] Speaker 2: about for average mortgage holders?
[45:21] Speaker 1: If rates go up?
[45:24] Speaker 16: Look, if the RBAS moves early and quick and decisively,
[45:28] Speaker 16: I think we can get away with two, three or
[45:30] Speaker 16: four rate hix back to where we were. The longer
[45:33] Speaker 16: the later they leave it, the more inflation gets embedded,
[45:36] Speaker 16: the more we risk a late eighties type situation, which
[45:38] Speaker 16: is something we all want to avoid.
[45:40] Speaker 2: We absolutely want to avoid that. I can remember the
[45:43] Speaker 2: late eighties. Warren Hogan, thanks for joining me tonight.
[45:46] Speaker 1: We're still to come.
[45:47] Speaker 2: The Russians unveil their first AI powered humanoid robot.
[45:51] Speaker 1: Let's just say it doesn't quite go as well as
[45:54] Speaker 1: that hopes. That's coming up.
[46:02] Speaker 2: Well, Russia unveiled its first AI powered humanoid robot this week.
[46:07] Speaker 2: They had the robot walk out on stage to the
[46:09] Speaker 2: soundtrack from the film at Rocky, which was a bit
[46:12] Speaker 2: of a stretch. The robot looked less like a champion
[46:16] Speaker 2: than a geriatric that had consumed way too much vodka.
[46:19] Speaker 1: Take a look.
[46:32] Speaker 2: And then well then it did exactly as you would
[46:34] Speaker 2: expect a robot that had been drinking vodka off stage
[46:38] Speaker 2: to do. Or, as Freileitch just told me, maybe it
[46:56] Speaker 2: wasn't a humanoid robot. Maybe it was Joe Biden, I thought,
[46:59] Speaker 2: pulling a curtain across the stage to save the robots
[47:02] Speaker 2: dig that he was a nice touch. Meanwhile, in Los Angeles,
[47:06] Speaker 2: they were hosting the thirty fifth Housekeeping Olympics.
[47:10] Speaker 1: That's right, It's a thing.
[47:35] Speaker 2: That looks to me like a whole lot of humans
[47:37] Speaker 2: trying to prove their worth before Russia's humanoid robots sobers
[47:41] Speaker 2: up and takes their jobs. The thing I'm sure of
[47:44] Speaker 2: is that no one in my house will ever win
[47:46] Speaker 2: a medal in those games. All right, One last thing,
[47:50] Speaker 2: you know, in life, they say timing is everything. We'll
[47:54] Speaker 2: check out this shot from La Lakers player Luca Donkik.
[48:00] Speaker 12: For Dodgit his sixth charm Los Angeles.
[48:04] Speaker 1: The Lakers called time out. Dudgetspired it just because he's
[48:10] Speaker 1: an inner painter. Incredible shot.
[48:13] Speaker 2: The only problem he threw that just after his coach
[48:17] Speaker 2: had called a time out.
[48:19] Speaker 1: Maybe the greatest shot of.
[48:21] Speaker 2: All time, not to count poor guy still made the
[48:25] Speaker 2: highlight surreillance gone viral all around the world.
[48:28] Speaker 1: So that's the main thing.
[48:30] Speaker 2: Speaking of time, that's all I've got. But coming up
[48:33] Speaker 2: right now.
[48:33] Speaker 1: Is the Late Debate. Good Night,

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