# Paul Murray Live | 24 February

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 24 Feb 2026, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/a57c3eb0-8cf4-46c1-9e35-b3fb00bd47eb/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

The Bondi Royal Commission begins, the double standards of the left. Plus, dissecting the latest political polls. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:06] Speaker 1: What an extraordinary ninety minutes of television. Like you, I'm
[0:10] Speaker 1: taking a deep breath and we all collectively now let
[0:14] Speaker 1: some of that breath out. Charry Markson and the team
[0:20] Speaker 1: have worked all summer on the most comprehensive retelling of
[0:24] Speaker 1: the day and the horrible weeks that have followed. Again
[0:29] Speaker 1: to her and her team, it's a phenomenal piece of
[0:32] Speaker 1: journalism with insights that I never seen before and certainly
[0:38] Speaker 1: have not been seen anywhere else on television. About fifty
[0:42] Speaker 1: different people were kind enough with their time, and Charry
[0:46] Speaker 1: spend plenty of time with those people. What you saw
[0:49] Speaker 1: on television was incredible. What you'll read in the book,
[0:52] Speaker 1: of course, will be even more so with even more
[0:55] Speaker 1: of that information as those victims families. What about the
[0:58] Speaker 1: story too of Kelly Sloane and you opposition leader who
[1:01] Speaker 1: was at the Huneker evented Dover Heights on the other
[1:04] Speaker 1: side of the Eastern Suburbs and then she ended up
[1:08] Speaker 1: being in one of the Jewish community ambulances. Unbelievable stories.
[1:13] Speaker 1: And all of these people have stories that of course
[1:17] Speaker 1: fifteen ended on that day, but all of their families.
[1:23] Speaker 1: I just want to say, on behalf everyone who's just
[1:24] Speaker 1: watched that littlelone, everyone who has lived it with you,
[1:27] Speaker 1: Strength and love to you, a beautiful little girl till
[1:30] Speaker 1: his sister, My goodness, Strength and love to you. Australia
[1:36] Speaker 1: is with you, and Australia will never forget what happened
[1:41] Speaker 1: to you, why it happened to you, and the forever
[1:48] Speaker 1: effects of that day as we were all getting ready
[1:52] Speaker 1: for a traditional relaxing time of the year, and of
[1:55] Speaker 1: course it was all chattered one Sunday night. Lot in
[2:00] Speaker 1: what we've just seen that I could easily replay for you.
[2:05] Speaker 1: But there was one particular moment that stood out to
[2:08] Speaker 1: me as yet again a reminder to all of us,
[2:12] Speaker 1: regardless of who we are, what we are, what we believe,
[2:16] Speaker 1: what we don't believe, where we come from, whether we
[2:19] Speaker 1: live in the busiest, most global part of the busiest
[2:25] Speaker 1: city like a Bondi, or if you live on acreage
[2:29] Speaker 1: right at the back of the sticks all over the country,
[2:32] Speaker 1: it is how fast life changes, about what our assumptions
[2:36] Speaker 1: are for tomorrow and for next week and for the
[2:38] Speaker 1: rest of our lives, and the reality, as it was
[2:41] Speaker 1: for those fifteen that life can end so quickly now
[2:48] Speaker 1: because there are gunshots. In this I will be telling everyone,
[2:53] Speaker 1: as we always do, to be careful and this stuff
[2:56] Speaker 1: can be distressing, but I want you to pay attention
[3:00] Speaker 1: to again, how the Rabbi the Bondi Rabbi as he
[3:06] Speaker 1: was known, was standing there with one of his best
[3:08] Speaker 1: mates and telling a joke, telling a joke in a park,
[3:12] Speaker 1: telling a joke in a park with family and friends,
[3:16] Speaker 1: telling a joke in a park with family and friends,
[3:18] Speaker 1: looking out on the ocean. Think about the last time
[3:20] Speaker 1: you did that, and how in a split second that
[3:25] Speaker 1: moment was the last of his life.
[3:28] Speaker 2: One of the key organizers of the Kannaka by the
[3:31] Speaker 2: Sea event was Rabbi Eli Schlanger. At six point forty two,
[3:36] Speaker 2: the Rabbi was sharing a joke with his friend Menachim
[3:39] Speaker 2: Dadon when they heard the first shot.
[3:42] Speaker 3: He look at me and he was smiling. He said
[3:44] Speaker 3: to him, Menachem, you know when I'm taking one step
[3:46] Speaker 3: back my father and lay said he niedish, my sugar,
[3:49] Speaker 3: take three steps back. And as he said that, this
[3:52] Speaker 3: was the.
[3:53] Speaker 2: First shot, what did you say to Rachel.
[3:55] Speaker 3: Really straight away? And we went down. So after ten
[3:59] Speaker 3: or maybe fifteen bullet was quite for three seconds, so
[4:03] Speaker 3: both of us stood up and our bailey took left
[4:05] Speaker 3: and I took hie.
[4:09] Speaker 2: That split second decision which way to run is the
[4:12] Speaker 2: difference between life and death.
[4:15] Speaker 1: If like me, you want as many people to see
[4:18] Speaker 1: what you have just seen tonight as possible, skynews dot
[4:22] Speaker 1: com dot Au subscribe become a member there. It is
[4:26] Speaker 1: just five dollars. But more importantly, we have a link
[4:29] Speaker 1: at the top of the page where you are able
[4:31] Speaker 1: to share the documentary with people, share it with family,
[4:36] Speaker 1: share it with friends, watch it with people as soon
[4:41] Speaker 1: as possible or when the moment comes. Because again, all
[4:44] Speaker 1: of us are them, and all of us could have
[4:48] Speaker 1: been them. It's a beach on a Sunday where you're
[4:54] Speaker 1: telling a joke with your friend or holding your child's hand,
[4:57] Speaker 1: and life can change forever. Sky news dot com dot
[5:01] Speaker 1: is where you would be able to get a copy
[5:03] Speaker 1: of that incredible piece of journalism, that incredible piece of filmmaking,
[5:08] Speaker 1: and it will be available there for the next of
[5:11] Speaker 1: the wi skynews dot com dot Au. Now, if you're
[5:14] Speaker 1: a first time view at of the program, let me
[5:16] Speaker 1: introduce myself. My name is Paul Murray and this is
[5:17] Speaker 1: an opinion show. So my opinion, is pretty dark on
[5:23] Speaker 1: what is supposedly the forum in which we're supposed to
[5:27] Speaker 1: learn more about what took place and what we are
[5:30] Speaker 1: supposed to learn, which is more about the wider hate
[5:35] Speaker 1: that brought us to this moment. Now, the Prime Minister
[5:39] Speaker 1: was very clear that he did not want a royal
[5:41] Speaker 1: commission into the events that you have just seen. He
[5:45] Speaker 1: didn't want to for a whole bunch of obvious political reasons. Australians,
[5:50] Speaker 1: regardless of what opinion poll a majority of which did
[5:52] Speaker 1: not approve of the way that he handled things in
[5:54] Speaker 1: those immediate days and weeks, in part because of his
[6:00] Speaker 1: intrajutants to want to give what the community, what the
[6:04] Speaker 1: fifteen family members wanted, which was a royal commission. Now,
[6:09] Speaker 1: they knew that there would be a potential criminal trial
[6:11] Speaker 1: that of course will play out. There would be potentially
[6:15] Speaker 1: a coroner's inquest, there will be many inquiries. But the
[6:19] Speaker 1: idea of a royal commission at the federal level is
[6:22] Speaker 1: one where any and all questions can be asked. But remember,
[6:28] Speaker 1: the Prime Minister didn't want a royal commission into what
[6:32] Speaker 1: you have just seen. The government is committed to making
[6:36] Speaker 1: sure that we can't wait years for answers. We need
[6:40] Speaker 1: to get on with any changes that are required. But then,
[6:45] Speaker 1: of course the Prime Minister relented. The Prime Minister made
[6:48] Speaker 1: a decision, only an obvious decision, which was to have
[6:51] Speaker 1: that Royal Commission, something that should have been committed to
[6:54] Speaker 1: within days when that became the obvious thing to have
[6:58] Speaker 1: a look at. Hence why I not so kindly in
[7:01] Speaker 1: this stage jokingly refer to him as each way albo again,
[7:04] Speaker 1: somebody who fought again something and now wants to turn
[7:06] Speaker 1: around and get praise for how quickly they put this
[7:08] Speaker 1: whole thing in place. Well, unbelievably, today we had the
[7:11] Speaker 1: first public hearings of the Royal Commission. If you have
[7:15] Speaker 1: missed Andrew Bolt's commentary earlier this evening, I suggest you
[7:18] Speaker 1: don't have a look about the ceremonial things at the
[7:20] Speaker 1: start of all of this, and will give you an
[7:22] Speaker 1: insight into just how deep this Royal Commission. Probably will
[7:26] Speaker 1: not go on the significant questions that need to be
[7:29] Speaker 1: asked in and around, specifically things like radical Islam. But
[7:33] Speaker 1: again we will all wait, watch and see. The gut
[7:36] Speaker 1: punch Today, though, is that the Royal Commissioner has said
[7:41] Speaker 1: that no eye witnesses. Basically, many, if not all, of
[7:45] Speaker 1: the people that you've just seen on air in that film,
[7:48] Speaker 1: in that documentary will be asked to give evidence to
[7:51] Speaker 1: the Royal Commission. Now, the Royal Commission is of course
[7:55] Speaker 1: prompted by the event at Bondi. It was called for
[8:00] Speaker 1: by the fifteen families. It was called for by the
[8:03] Speaker 1: wider community who saw what happened before their own eyes
[8:06] Speaker 1: to those fifteen people. The wider questions of anti Semitism
[8:12] Speaker 1: is where the Prime Minister decided to broaden things. But
[8:16] Speaker 1: unbelievably today to hear that the Royal Commission will not
[8:20] Speaker 1: hear from any eye witness for the supposed reason of
[8:24] Speaker 1: trying to protect the criminal proceedings which are alleged against
[8:29] Speaker 1: one of the alleged shooters is extraordinary. I'll explain why.
[8:34] Speaker 1: But you need to hear it from her first.
[8:37] Speaker 4: An individual has been charged with a terrorism offense.
[8:43] Speaker 5: The trial of that.
[8:44] Speaker 4: Individual will be the occasion to lead evidence of the attack.
[8:50] Speaker 4: This Commission must do its work without risking any prejudice
[8:55] Speaker 4: to that criminal proceeding. Leading evidence of the Commission from
[9:01] Speaker 4: people who may be witnesses in the criminal proceeding want
[9:06] Speaker 4: to create that risk and for that reason it.
[9:09] Speaker 6: Will not occur.
[9:12] Speaker 1: Now, as you can say, breaking news below us, he
[9:14] Speaker 1: is the Prime Minister has been evacuated from the Prime
[9:17] Speaker 1: minister or residence, the primary one in Australia, which is
[9:21] Speaker 1: in Canberra and is the Lodge. This is due to
[9:24] Speaker 1: a safety and security concern. We've got reporters that are
[9:28] Speaker 1: trying to work out exactly what the nature of this
[9:31] Speaker 1: is and what the emergency response is as well. But
[9:34] Speaker 1: the idea that anyone is knowing about what is happening
[9:39] Speaker 1: right now is pretty extraordinary. In fact, the Prime Minister's
[9:42] Speaker 1: office is now confirming what are those early reports. The
[9:45] Speaker 1: Prime Minister, due to security reasons, has been evacuated from
[9:49] Speaker 1: the lodge. We've got reporters in Canberra who will join
[9:52] Speaker 1: us in a moment or two time. Emergency vehicles are there,
[9:56] Speaker 1: including the police of course, the Australian Federal Police, part
[10:00] Speaker 1: of the local policing force, but obviously part of the
[10:02] Speaker 1: protectorate of the Australian Prime Minister. But an extraordinary moment
[10:08] Speaker 1: that we are living right now, which is that as
[10:11] Speaker 1: they are investigating this situation, the Prime Minister has been
[10:15] Speaker 1: moved to another secure location. There is no further detail
[10:20] Speaker 1: about whether family was with him or anyone else at
[10:23] Speaker 1: the lodge. But as we speak right now at about
[10:26] Speaker 1: what twelve minutes past nine Canberra time, is that we
[10:31] Speaker 1: are learning that the Prime Minister, due to security threats,
[10:34] Speaker 1: has been moved from the lodge now for obvious reasons. Again,
[10:38] Speaker 1: just will tell you the news, then we get to
[10:39] Speaker 1: opinion later. But this is a frightening and completely unacceptable
[10:43] Speaker 1: situation that is playing out right now. I hope the
[10:46] Speaker 1: Prime Minister is safe. I hope that he's able to
[10:48] Speaker 1: communicate with his family. We understand that he is in
[10:51] Speaker 1: a secure location, so presumably would be able to do so.
[10:56] Speaker 1: But that is an incredible escalation in the way our
[11:00] Speaker 1: country has worked in the past and how we live
[11:03] Speaker 1: in the existence of what it is. Right now, our
[11:05] Speaker 1: reporter Camridden is on his way to the scene. We
[11:08] Speaker 1: will have him on as soon as we are able
[11:11] Speaker 1: to get him in front of a camera, and of
[11:13] Speaker 1: course we will continue to update every moment of this
[11:16] Speaker 1: the second that we know more. The Prime Minister has
[11:18] Speaker 1: been evacuated from his home, the Prime minister real home
[11:21] Speaker 1: in the lodge in Canberra. Now I understand that The
[11:26] Speaker 1: threat was received at about six pm Canberra time, so
[11:31] Speaker 1: again about three and a quarter hours ago. Now police
[11:36] Speaker 1: are apparently informing our newsroom, who are informing me right now,
[11:40] Speaker 1: is that there is no threat to the wider community
[11:43] Speaker 1: and they are simply trying to inspect the property of
[11:47] Speaker 1: the Prime Minister's office prime Minister's home right now. But
[11:51] Speaker 1: again as we speak, Prime Minister has been evacuated from
[11:53] Speaker 1: the lodge due to security reasons. Emergency services are looking
[11:57] Speaker 1: over the property after a threat was received to the
[12:01] Speaker 1: safety of the Prime Minister in his home. This is
[12:04] Speaker 1: unbelievable in his home on a Tuesday night in Canberra.
[12:10] Speaker 1: The threat is three hours old. When we know more,
[12:12] Speaker 1: I will of course get straight back to it. But
[12:16] Speaker 1: as I was saying about the Royal Commission, what I
[12:19] Speaker 1: find difficult to accept about the Royal Commissioner being in
[12:24] Speaker 1: a position where the Royal Commissioner is saying they can't
[12:27] Speaker 1: collect any sort of evidence whatsoever in public because somehow
[12:31] Speaker 1: it would be prejudicial to a trial. It just doesn't wash.
[12:34] Speaker 1: Because as if you're seen on our air for the
[12:37] Speaker 1: past ninety minutes, there are plenty of eyewitnesses accounts and
[12:41] Speaker 1: these are communities that want to tell a story, they
[12:45] Speaker 1: will no doubt do so in the criminal proceedings, but
[12:46] Speaker 1: they can also do so at a coronial proceeding. Now,
[12:51] Speaker 1: remember what is happening at the criminal level is that
[12:53] Speaker 1: we are still in the early days, but there is
[12:55] Speaker 1: no jury that has been impaneled. The expectation is that
[13:00] Speaker 1: it's only a couple of months before a report is
[13:02] Speaker 1: to be prepared for the government about the incident. So
[13:06] Speaker 1: I don't understand how eyewitnesses can speak to television cameras.
[13:09] Speaker 1: Here on Sky News, they've spoken to media outlets in
[13:13] Speaker 1: great detail, like sixty minutes, including of course the hero
[13:19] Speaker 1: who was able to confront one of the government. And
[13:24] Speaker 1: then of course there's the ABC as well. They're reporting
[13:27] Speaker 1: on top of the seven point thirty program, their four
[13:30] Speaker 1: Corners program. And this is just what you've seen on
[13:32] Speaker 1: television in these longer pieces of journalism, as opposed to
[13:37] Speaker 1: everything that you've seen almost every day since those shots
[13:40] Speaker 1: rang out that Sunday evening. Now, again, the decision had
[13:44] Speaker 1: been made to frankly narrow the Royal Commission. But the
[13:49] Speaker 1: idea that, of course this Royal Commission, which remember had
[13:52] Speaker 1: been called after the alleged shooter was already in custody,
[13:56] Speaker 1: but today is the day that we start to learn
[13:58] Speaker 1: that there's going to be no further and deeper evidence.
[14:02] Speaker 1: That's quite odd. But also part of this too is
[14:07] Speaker 1: that remember, before the Royal Commission was announced, the Prime
[14:09] Speaker 1: Minister made a claim that a quicker review, which was
[14:13] Speaker 1: to be done by a former ambass of the United
[14:15] Speaker 1: States and significant intelligence figure, was going to be the
[14:20] Speaker 1: independent Commonwealth Review into Australia's federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies.
[14:24] Speaker 1: It would be the first time that had been taking
[14:26] Speaker 1: place in many decades, and it was looking into the
[14:29] Speaker 1: potential failures around who knew what and when. But the
[14:34] Speaker 1: reality is that what we were told at the time
[14:37] Speaker 1: was that this inquiry would be linked with the Royal Commission.
[14:41] Speaker 1: But my expectation is that we're going to end up
[14:43] Speaker 1: with an awful lot of redacted pages of evidence if
[14:46] Speaker 1: we ever end up seeing any of it. Why because
[14:49] Speaker 1: as we learn again today from the bench of the
[14:52] Speaker 1: Royal Commission, is that much of the intelligence community's evidence
[14:57] Speaker 1: to be given in public in the Royal Commission is
[14:59] Speaker 1: going to to be delayed. Now I understand that they're
[15:02] Speaker 1: obviously national security matters where sometimes things have to go
[15:05] Speaker 1: what they say in camera, which is to boot the
[15:08] Speaker 1: public out, boot the reporters out. So the Royal Commissioner
[15:10] Speaker 1: is able to get some information. But let's be very
[15:13] Speaker 1: clear about what the expectations were about a Royal commission
[15:16] Speaker 1: into what had taken place in Bondi. The expectation of
[15:20] Speaker 1: a Royal commission into what had taken place in Bondi
[15:24] Speaker 1: was who knew what and when? Who failed? Who was
[15:27] Speaker 1: told directly of the threats to the specific community, and
[15:31] Speaker 1: who failed to act let alone. How did we get
[15:35] Speaker 1: to a scenario where those initial protests that took place
[15:38] Speaker 1: the night after October the seventh, these, of course have
[15:40] Speaker 1: nothing to do with people's views when it came to
[15:45] Speaker 1: the government's response in Israel, the IDs response in Israel
[15:49] Speaker 1: for the many two years after. These were people who
[15:51] Speaker 1: were channing where's the Jews? So the intelligence stuff mightn't
[15:56] Speaker 1: see the light of day because they need to put
[15:58] Speaker 1: it through our legal process to work out whether he
[16:00] Speaker 1: can see the light of day. There won't be a
[16:02] Speaker 1: single eye witness in relation to the event that the
[16:05] Speaker 1: thing is supposedly all about. Again, this is why from
[16:09] Speaker 1: the Commissioner herself.
[16:12] Speaker 6: Intelligence agencies that might have made material available to an
[16:18] Speaker 6: internal review without the need for getting legal advice found
[16:23] Speaker 6: it necessary to consider questions of public interest immunity, statutory
[16:29] Speaker 6: non disclosure provisions, and legal professional privilege when faced with
[16:35] Speaker 6: a requirement to produce the same material to an independent
[16:40] Speaker 6: royal commission.
[16:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, we've going to reporters about a join us say
[16:44] Speaker 1: in relation to what's taking place when it comes to
[16:46] Speaker 1: the lodge cam readin all joints literally in the next
[16:48] Speaker 1: couple of seconds from Campbell, what we put him on
[16:50] Speaker 1: the line. One further point to all of this, this
[16:53] Speaker 1: is not what people expected when it came to this
[16:55] Speaker 1: royal commission. A royal commission is meant to be the
[16:58] Speaker 1: highest example we have of no stone left unturned. To
[17:03] Speaker 1: be told that there are brick walls before you even
[17:06] Speaker 1: get to the stones is something that is politely deeply disappointing.
[17:14] Speaker 1: But when, of course, there were forces that never wanted
[17:17] Speaker 1: it to take place at the start, of course, they
[17:21] Speaker 1: had never turned around and said that one of the
[17:22] Speaker 1: reasons why this should be in place was because of
[17:26] Speaker 1: the failure to be able to get the victims to
[17:28] Speaker 1: be able to speak to it. None of that was used,
[17:30] Speaker 1: of course, as any sort of a piece of information. Again,
[17:35] Speaker 1: I fear for where this thing is going to go.
[17:37] Speaker 1: It should be fulsome every single rock should be overturned,
[17:41] Speaker 1: every single detail should be there. But it looks like
[17:43] Speaker 1: we are not going to get even well a sizable portion,
[17:47] Speaker 1: maybe even half of what this thing should have been.
[17:50] Speaker 1: Let's go back to Camberra. Now. Cam Redden is one
[17:52] Speaker 1: of our federal political reporters. But let's talk about the
[17:55] Speaker 1: national security event that is unplaying and unfolding right now
[18:00] Speaker 1: outside the lodge. Cam tell us about the threat that
[18:03] Speaker 1: was delivered to the Prime Minister and the decision to
[18:06] Speaker 1: move him from the lodge for his own safety. Yeah,
[18:09] Speaker 1: I get a Paul.
[18:09] Speaker 7: I'm standing outside the lodge at the moment, and as
[18:11] Speaker 7: you can understand, this is quite a secure handling of
[18:15] Speaker 7: the information coming out of this. But what we do
[18:17] Speaker 7: know is that the Prime Minister has been evacuated from
[18:20] Speaker 7: the lodge, that there was a security concern of some kind,
[18:24] Speaker 7: the nature of which has not been described by anyone,
[18:27] Speaker 7: including the police at this stage, and he's been taken
[18:30] Speaker 7: to another location away from the lodge while that is
[18:32] Speaker 7: being dealt with, And just the last minute or so,
[18:35] Speaker 7: we have received a statement from the AFP, all of
[18:38] Speaker 7: which confirms that a search is ongoing at the moment
[18:42] Speaker 7: that that's commenced and it's still happening, but they say
[18:45] Speaker 7: there is no current threat to the community or public safety.
[18:48] Speaker 7: So there's a small number of visible police around here, Paul,
[18:51] Speaker 7: that no lights or sirens or anything of that nature.
[18:54] Speaker 7: We don't know whether the Prime Minister is at this stage,
[18:56] Speaker 7: but we're thought he's been taken to a different location
[18:59] Speaker 7: while this search is ongoing.
[19:01] Speaker 1: Can you tell us about some of the information here
[19:03] Speaker 1: about how we got to this being known publicly? Was
[19:07] Speaker 1: the media aware of this because of the response of
[19:10] Speaker 1: emergency services and thus there has been the confirmation from
[19:14] Speaker 1: the Prime Minister's office. Tell us about the information flow
[19:17] Speaker 1: that has taken place since the threat was apparently received
[19:20] Speaker 1: about three hours ago six o'clock local time.
[19:24] Speaker 7: Well, the news traveled, honestly, just through back channels, Paul,
[19:27] Speaker 7: and I don't see that to be suspicious about where
[19:30] Speaker 7: the information comes. Bit of mouth of all things at
[19:34] Speaker 7: the pub is how I found out about it, having
[19:36] Speaker 7: a soda water on a quiet night. But what happened
[19:38] Speaker 7: here was somebody suggested that there was a bit of
[19:41] Speaker 7: activity outside the lodge, that there was some movement, and
[19:44] Speaker 7: then after making some calls, that's what we've confirmed has happened.
[19:47] Speaker 7: So in terms of what happens from here, there's this
[19:50] Speaker 7: search ongoing. We expect some update in the next little
[19:54] Speaker 7: while and if we get more information about that, we'll
[19:56] Speaker 7: bring it to you. Of course, a few hours ago, Paul,
[19:58] Speaker 7: the Prime Minister, was sitting in a lodge for an
[19:59] Speaker 7: hour doing a podcast that was live streams and there
[20:03] Speaker 7: were plenty of comments on there as you can imagine,
[20:06] Speaker 7: giving some feedback about that. So a couple of hours
[20:09] Speaker 7: ago it was all hunky dory. Sometime between now and
[20:12] Speaker 7: then in the mid afternoon is when this threat has
[20:16] Speaker 7: been noticed or notified or they've become aware of it,
[20:19] Speaker 7: and there was enough concern about it to then remove
[20:21] Speaker 7: the Prime Minister from his place of residence where he
[20:23] Speaker 7: does leave here in Canberra even in non sitting weeks,
[20:26] Speaker 7: to then take into a different place, and a few
[20:28] Speaker 7: more cars that were done marks and they have police
[20:31] Speaker 7: officers just coming and going at the moment, but not
[20:33] Speaker 7: a great deal of activity and not a great deal
[20:35] Speaker 7: of clarity about the nature of that's either at this stage.
[20:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, now, look again, this is an opinion show. I'm
[20:42] Speaker 1: very strong about it, but I am also absolutely united
[20:46] Speaker 1: with any and every person in the community who believes
[20:49] Speaker 1: that any threat of violence towards the people you disagree
[20:51] Speaker 1: with politically is absolutely disgraceful. Obviously, the full force of
[20:56] Speaker 1: the Federal Police and all intelligence agencies will be to
[21:00] Speaker 1: work back as to the source of the threat, and
[21:02] Speaker 1: I certainly hope that they're able to work that out
[21:05] Speaker 1: very quickly. It also sits in a wider environment where
[21:09] Speaker 1: we have been told either by the politicians themselves because
[21:12] Speaker 1: of the threats that they are receiving due to things
[21:15] Speaker 1: like social media. We've also heard it from security agencies
[21:19] Speaker 1: about the number of personal threats that are made towards MPs.
[21:24] Speaker 1: The Prime Minister has spoken previously about being the subjects
[21:29] Speaker 1: of threats of violence. Now this has happened to multiple politicians,
[21:32] Speaker 1: multiple leaders, over a long period of time. Of recent times,
[21:36] Speaker 1: when Australia has been in and out of wars, these
[21:39] Speaker 1: things have become heightened experiences. But certainly people are willing
[21:44] Speaker 1: to talk more publicly about what they have to deal with.
[21:47] Speaker 1: If you choose to be a member of Parliament or
[21:50] Speaker 1: are honored enough to become a prime minister. Absolutely right.
[21:55] Speaker 7: The AFA has said on the record call that the
[21:57] Speaker 7: number of threats they receive or they are aware of
[22:00] Speaker 7: that get reported to them by MP's at all levels
[22:03] Speaker 7: Stayton Fedral are in the hundreds every year and they
[22:06] Speaker 7: do regular reporting on that. And the nature of those
[22:09] Speaker 7: threats vary from somebody hurling abuse on social media to
[22:13] Speaker 7: the sort of one that we've now seen tonight where
[22:15] Speaker 7: the Prime Minister has needed to be evacuated. Now it
[22:18] Speaker 7: goes without saying there's plenty of security around the movements
[22:21] Speaker 7: of the Prime Minister of Australia. It's a very well
[22:23] Speaker 7: known place where he lives. He says openly that he
[22:25] Speaker 7: lives in the lodge in Canberra. But we don't know,
[22:28] Speaker 7: as I say, the nature of this particular threat. I'm
[22:30] Speaker 7: sure that certainly by the morning poor we'll be able
[22:33] Speaker 7: to say a little bit more about exactly what's leads
[22:35] Speaker 7: to this.
[22:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, canw for obvious reasons. Anyone who's ever
[22:38] Speaker 1: seen it with their own eyes when you go to Canberra,
[22:41] Speaker 1: you know that it is quite a large grounds. Relatively
[22:44] Speaker 1: small property, but a large grounds obviously surrounded by all
[22:48] Speaker 1: forms of security, both seen and unseen. It is the
[22:51] Speaker 1: equivalent of the White House in terms of the lodgings
[22:56] Speaker 1: of our country's leaders. So it is one of the
[22:58] Speaker 1: safest buildings for anyone to be in, let alone the
[23:01] Speaker 1: Prime Minister who lives there, as you say, twenty for
[23:05] Speaker 1: seven when he's in Canberra, he uses that as his base.
[23:07] Speaker 1: He doesn't live in Kurrabilly House as several other Prime
[23:11] Speaker 1: ministers of recent times have. Cam, if you know anymore,
[23:14] Speaker 1: jump on the line, and of course we'll discuss it
[23:16] Speaker 1: live on the air again. That breaking news which Cam
[23:19] Speaker 1: Reddan brings us from outside the lodge right now, not
[23:21] Speaker 1: under lights and sirens, but there are plenty of emergency
[23:24] Speaker 1: vehicles that are around the lodge after receiving a threat
[23:27] Speaker 1: to the safety of the Prime minister. The Prime Minister
[23:29] Speaker 1: is currently in an alternative safe location in Canberra. The
[23:33] Speaker 1: threat that was received six o'clock local times. We move
[23:36] Speaker 1: in about three and a half hours later is when
[23:38] Speaker 1: we now know about it. Publicly after there was some
[23:42] Speaker 1: egalized that were able to spot some of the movement
[23:45] Speaker 1: of emergency vehicles towards the lodge that then quickly made
[23:49] Speaker 1: its way towards news outlets. The news outlets, we're they're
[23:51] Speaker 1: able to confirm it with the Prime Minister's office and
[23:54] Speaker 1: we're able to speak to a reporter as we have
[23:56] Speaker 1: in real time. Again, I'm a passionate bloke and I'm
[23:59] Speaker 1: a person who I've can get very focused about the
[24:02] Speaker 1: rights and wrongs of certain politicians. But any and every
[24:06] Speaker 1: example of somebody taking it too far, taking it too
[24:09] Speaker 1: threats which are given online or in this case, something
[24:11] Speaker 1: that results in a threat to the safety of a politician,
[24:14] Speaker 1: it is not acceptable. It is not appropriate. It is
[24:16] Speaker 1: not in the name of the people who disagree with
[24:19] Speaker 1: any form of politician in this country. We live in
[24:22] Speaker 1: a country where the people who lead it must be
[24:25] Speaker 1: safe and must be able to move amongst us, as
[24:28] Speaker 1: of course they so seemingly effortlessly do it. We'll have
[24:31] Speaker 1: more as it comes to hand here on Sky News
[24:39] Speaker 1: twenty nine minutes past nine o'clock Canberra time, where about
[24:42] Speaker 1: three and a half hours ago, a security threat was
[24:47] Speaker 1: discovered and it was a threat towards the security of
[24:50] Speaker 1: the Prime Minister, which is why he was evacuated from
[24:52] Speaker 1: the lodge. He is now in a safe location and
[24:56] Speaker 1: security officials are currently combing the property. I've got an
[25:00] Speaker 1: expert on how these moments work from the inside. We'll
[25:02] Speaker 1: get to them in a moment. In the meantime, again,
[25:05] Speaker 1: we continue on with our discussion of the news of
[25:07] Speaker 1: the day. James Ashby, of course, is Paulin Hanson's right
[25:10] Speaker 1: hand man. All in there when it comes to one Nation,
[25:12] Speaker 1: Linda Scott labored with bootstraps and Linda, certainly the Prime
[25:15] Speaker 1: Minister is reaching out to as many as he can
[25:17] Speaker 1: to tell people he is okay, he is in a
[25:20] Speaker 1: safe location.
[25:21] Speaker 8: Look, it's very disturbing news tonight that we've obviously heard
[25:24] Speaker 8: there's been a security thread at the lodge. I reached
[25:26] Speaker 8: out to the Prime Minister just to check that he
[25:28] Speaker 8: was okay, and you know, he's gotten back to me
[25:30] Speaker 8: straight away to say that he is. And that's a
[25:33] Speaker 8: very wonderful thing to hear. But I've just come from
[25:37] Speaker 8: a very angry and heated meeting here this evening in
[25:40] Speaker 8: the Inner City. I do want to say, and I've
[25:42] Speaker 8: said this before, I appreciate people feel upset, but we've
[25:45] Speaker 8: just got to turn the temperature down. You know, Australia
[25:48] Speaker 8: should be it must be a safe country where people
[25:52] Speaker 8: can debate ideas. I've been coming on here for years
[25:55] Speaker 8: and arguing against people who I don't agree with, and
[25:58] Speaker 8: James and I rarely agree on anything. But we can
[26:01] Speaker 8: must have these really civil conversations in a calm way,
[26:04] Speaker 8: and we can't have situations where the Prime Minister of
[26:08] Speaker 8: this country is evacuated from his own home where he
[26:12] Speaker 8: lives as the nation's leader, as a security threat because
[26:16] Speaker 8: people disagree.
[26:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to be on more than a unity
[26:19] Speaker 1: ticket there. I mean, James, you've obviously seen upfront the
[26:22] Speaker 1: situation with Pauline and about what she has received over
[26:25] Speaker 1: the years, no doubt what you have received over the years. Again,
[26:28] Speaker 1: I'm glad the Prime minister's safe. I'm glad that they
[26:30] Speaker 1: were able to intercede into all of this and that
[26:32] Speaker 1: he's safe. And again, we can have very we can
[26:36] Speaker 1: have great blues as Australians when it comes to the
[26:39] Speaker 1: direction of the country, but when it starts to get personal,
[26:42] Speaker 1: and it starts to get interpersonal in terms of the
[26:44] Speaker 1: threats of violence, that we're all going to be absolutely
[26:47] Speaker 1: united that anyone doing that stuff, I don't want them
[26:51] Speaker 1: to be out and about amongst us.
[26:55] Speaker 9: Look, I completely agree the safety of any elected official,
[26:58] Speaker 9: whether it be the Prime Minister or Lower House backbencher,
[27:02] Speaker 9: should be the focus of any elected member of Parliament,
[27:06] Speaker 9: and that goes for state and federal I might just say, though,
[27:10] Speaker 9: this is a government that has removed the safety and
[27:13] Speaker 9: security to some of the most high profile people in
[27:17] Speaker 9: this country. On the opposite side, Peter Dutton had his
[27:20] Speaker 9: safety removed once he was out, and yet he is
[27:24] Speaker 9: still very recognizable. And Pauline Hansen, I know of late
[27:28] Speaker 9: the Department has quibbled at putting sufficient security in and
[27:33] Speaker 9: around her house and there's no greater target, no greater,
[27:37] Speaker 9: more recognizable person than her. And I know she hates
[27:40] Speaker 9: me saying this, but I do fear for her safety
[27:43] Speaker 9: at times, and I think to myself, when you are
[27:46] Speaker 9: vocally outspoken on certain things and the Prime Minister's allowed
[27:49] Speaker 9: his view just like Pauline is, they should all be protected.
[27:53] Speaker 9: And I really hope that tonight should be a reminder
[27:56] Speaker 9: to this Prime minister beef up the security of all
[28:00] Speaker 9: members of Parliament who have that profile and are at risk.
[28:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, but I would also say sorry just once that,
[28:05] Speaker 1: but I would also say too, and I of course
[28:07] Speaker 1: completely agree. It's also really important as well. When you
[28:09] Speaker 1: gave that example about Peter Dutton, we know, of course
[28:12] Speaker 1: there is a person currently before the courts in and
[28:15] Speaker 1: around there were matters to do with the election campaign,
[28:19] Speaker 1: his security and the bubble it was around him from
[28:21] Speaker 1: when he was the minister to then opposition leader. Again,
[28:24] Speaker 1: I think that any significant person, when it comes to
[28:27] Speaker 1: an elected person who needs that extra bull cup, they
[28:31] Speaker 1: should be able to receive that bulk up. And if
[28:34] Speaker 1: this is a moment that gives renewed focus to that,
[28:36] Speaker 1: then I think that's going to be exactly what needs
[28:39] Speaker 1: to happen. All right, guys, I'm about to get that
[28:40] Speaker 1: security expert in a second, so I do want to
[28:42] Speaker 1: try to get to some of the other news that
[28:44] Speaker 1: we had planned to discuss here, Linda. The Royal Commission
[28:48] Speaker 1: was called after the alleged government was already in custody,
[28:53] Speaker 1: the presumption being and of course even by the time
[28:55] Speaker 1: that it was announced we knew that he was going
[28:59] Speaker 1: to live, even thus was going to go towards a
[29:02] Speaker 1: judicial process. Yet today we learned that the reason why
[29:06] Speaker 1: none of the eye witnesses that we've seen on television
[29:08] Speaker 1: tonight will be able to appear before the Royal Commission
[29:11] Speaker 1: is because of a concern that it would somehow be
[29:13] Speaker 1: some judicy towards the judicial process in the around again
[29:18] Speaker 1: the alleged government, hence the term alleged being used. I
[29:23] Speaker 1: don't quite understand that, because obviously you've seen huge pieces
[29:27] Speaker 1: of journalism, including what we putwere at this evening, and
[29:30] Speaker 1: a community that wants to speak. There is no jury
[29:35] Speaker 1: that has been in paneled, there are charges that have
[29:38] Speaker 1: been laid. Do you think that this is an area
[29:42] Speaker 1: that the Royal Commission We surprised that this is where
[29:44] Speaker 1: they went this morning, which was to say, even though
[29:46] Speaker 1: this is supposedly about Bondai, no one from Bondai is
[29:50] Speaker 1: going to be here to tell us about what happened
[29:52] Speaker 1: at Bondi.
[29:53] Speaker 8: I mean, here's what I think about Australia's judicial system.
[29:55] Speaker 8: It's strong and robust and full of incredibly clever people
[29:59] Speaker 8: like back Virginia Bell, who are there to do the
[30:03] Speaker 8: right thing by the law. It is the case that
[30:06] Speaker 8: when many alleged crimes occurred, people may want to speak
[30:09] Speaker 8: about it. Media organizations choose to broadcast these things, but
[30:14] Speaker 8: it is also the case that the law has to
[30:16] Speaker 8: follow a process, so understand.
[30:18] Speaker 1: I think it very important if the system is.
[30:21] Speaker 8: As reach matter for the Royal Commission, and it's a
[30:24] Speaker 8: matter for the people who preside over that, and I understand.
[30:26] Speaker 1: But when you are really really.
[30:28] Speaker 8: Important that we respect the legal judicial process here to
[30:32] Speaker 8: get the outcome, that is just And I don't think
[30:35] Speaker 8: anyone would argue with not having a process, that is just.
[30:40] Speaker 1: All I'm saying here is that I think that there
[30:42] Speaker 1: should have been and if this was the roadblock that
[30:46] Speaker 1: was always going to be the roadblock, I think it
[30:47] Speaker 1: should have been discussed and flagged a lot louder and
[30:50] Speaker 1: a lot earlier than today, because I certainly know some
[30:53] Speaker 1: of the reaction in some of the community that wanted
[30:56] Speaker 1: to be there and expected their moment. I just think
[30:59] Speaker 1: this can be managed, can I say?
[31:01] Speaker 8: I mean you and I again of Ben debating for
[31:03] Speaker 8: a long time, right, it's really important that we come
[31:06] Speaker 8: on here and we turn down the temperature and we
[31:07] Speaker 8: get the facts right. James, you know that security.
[31:11] Speaker 1: Decisions should still I suggested both.
[31:14] Speaker 8: James, James, you know that security decisions of elected members
[31:18] Speaker 8: are not personal decisions as the Prime Minister, the decisions
[31:21] Speaker 8: of the police and theready.
[31:23] Speaker 9: Let's go what we discussed.
[31:25] Speaker 1: Makeup.
[31:26] Speaker 8: You've had fake arguments.
[31:28] Speaker 1: Guy, I'm going to jump in here on both of you.
[31:30] Speaker 3: Here.
[31:30] Speaker 1: I understand what's going on, but I'm going to take over, right,
[31:33] Speaker 1: which is obviously I know what's at the bottom of
[31:36] Speaker 1: the screen, and obviously I know that I don't want
[31:39] Speaker 1: to do anything that takes attention away from the seriousness
[31:42] Speaker 1: of the moment.
[31:43] Speaker 3: Right.
[31:43] Speaker 1: The discussion I'm trying to have is in conjunction with
[31:46] Speaker 1: live and breaking news, which James just brings me to.
[31:50] Speaker 1: If this was always a roadblock, I just think it
[31:52] Speaker 1: should have been telegraphed a lot louder and a lot sooner,
[31:56] Speaker 1: because this was quite a surprise, and I can go
[31:58] Speaker 1: and pull the footage from all the six pm u
[32:00] Speaker 1: U tonight that it was a surprise to the reporters
[32:02] Speaker 1: who were covering it as well.
[32:05] Speaker 8: This is about the real commission and the Justice Judge decision.
[32:11] Speaker 9: Listen, I just want to make a point on this.
[32:13] Speaker 9: There is a just pathway here, and that is to
[32:16] Speaker 9: let those people who may have witnessed things at Bondai
[32:19] Speaker 9: Beach have their say in camera, and for those people
[32:22] Speaker 9: who are unfamiliar with the terminology of what that means.
[32:25] Speaker 9: It means no cameras in camera means no cameras. Their
[32:30] Speaker 9: evidence could not be viewed publicly. These people should not
[32:34] Speaker 9: be shut down. They've just got as much to say
[32:36] Speaker 9: as what anybody else does in this raw commission into
[32:40] Speaker 9: anti Semitism. And look, this is a government that didn't
[32:43] Speaker 9: want this royal Commission to begin with. We know that,
[32:46] Speaker 9: and now they are putting as many obstacles in the
[32:49] Speaker 9: way with a cherry pick justice that will discriminate on
[32:54] Speaker 9: those people who have something genuine to add to This
[32:57] Speaker 9: raw commission is very important and I just think people
[33:00] Speaker 9: like Linda and the Prime Minister are dismissing these very
[33:03] Speaker 9: important people's statements.
[33:04] Speaker 1: All right, Well again I understand all of the emotion
[33:07] Speaker 1: that is around tonight. Again, the conversation I'm trying to
[33:10] Speaker 1: have is two concurrent ones that don't overlap. And again
[33:15] Speaker 1: that's where we've tried to be. I'm going to leave
[33:17] Speaker 1: it there because I want to get to our security expert. Again.
[33:19] Speaker 1: I love the debate. It's always done respectfully and we
[33:22] Speaker 1: always make sure that again, anyone who wants to take
[33:26] Speaker 1: it too far in terms of the online stay away
[33:28] Speaker 1: from these people. They're my friends. I love them very much.
[33:30] Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the conversation right now with
[33:33] Speaker 1: David Craig is a former AFP detective superintendent. Hebe across
[33:36] Speaker 1: in part what is taking place now. Now, hopefully this
[33:40] Speaker 1: is at the most benign end of things, where something
[33:43] Speaker 1: was received at six point thirty. They'll search the property.
[33:45] Speaker 1: There's nothing to be seen at all, but for something
[33:47] Speaker 1: to be considered credible enough for the Prime Minister to
[33:50] Speaker 1: have been removed from the lodge and taken to a
[33:52] Speaker 1: secure location. There's a matter of protocol about that, but
[33:55] Speaker 1: also it's an insight into the potential seriousness of the threat.
[33:59] Speaker 1: Is that correct?
[34:01] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[34:01] Speaker 5: One hundred sent Paul. I mean, this isn't some online
[34:05] Speaker 5: threat that doesn't have a lot of credibility. There must
[34:08] Speaker 5: be some corroboration to it for them to act this way.
[34:12] Speaker 5: I mean, I have been a bodyguard for three different
[34:15] Speaker 5: prime ministers, not Anthey, Alban easy. But this is a
[34:20] Speaker 5: significant move and they wouldn't be doing it less there
[34:22] Speaker 5: was a credible threat.
[34:25] Speaker 1: Now, also, David, what I'm fascinated he is again to
[34:29] Speaker 1: as much of the process as you can discuss, and
[34:32] Speaker 1: again we don't want to telegraph and get people with
[34:35] Speaker 1: bad intentions to learn anything from discussions. But give me
[34:38] Speaker 1: an idea about that process of when the threat is
[34:42] Speaker 1: received and then the Prime Minister being moved. One imagines
[34:47] Speaker 1: that obviously to be urgent, as we saw before, say,
[34:50] Speaker 1: I think it was Julia Gillard remember a few years
[34:53] Speaker 1: ago where there was a protectorate moment that was happening
[34:55] Speaker 1: before our eyes. But again, what would happen behind the
[34:58] Speaker 1: scenes in terms of the moving of the Prime Minister
[35:01] Speaker 1: from wherever he was in his own home.
[35:04] Speaker 5: Well, there'll be the initial response will be a contingency
[35:08] Speaker 5: planning response to make sure that the government has continuity
[35:12] Speaker 5: that in case something happened to the Prime Minister, and
[35:16] Speaker 5: god forbid that would happen, that the government can perform
[35:20] Speaker 5: its executive duties that it needs to for the Australian community.
[35:25] Speaker 5: The promise will be moved very swiftly. They will have
[35:28] Speaker 5: a number of plans and depending on the objective or
[35:33] Speaker 5: the vector of the threat, those plans will be enacted
[35:36] Speaker 5: and the response will be appropriate.
[35:39] Speaker 1: Now I'm just reading here from a statement which is
[35:42] Speaker 1: essentially a confirmation of what we've been talking about, including
[35:45] Speaker 1: even in the past couple of minutes here, but it
[35:46] Speaker 1: says from the AFP that at six pm today the
[35:49] Speaker 1: AFP responded to an alleged security incident within the Act.
[35:53] Speaker 1: A thorough search of a protection establishment was undertaken, that,
[35:56] Speaker 1: of course, being the lodge. Nothing suspicious was located. A
[36:00] Speaker 1: new piece of information, but important to note there is
[36:02] Speaker 1: currently no threat to the community or public safety. Further
[36:05] Speaker 1: information we've provided at an appropriate time. Again give us
[36:09] Speaker 1: an idea about the next stages here where there's an
[36:13] Speaker 1: investigation which will have started immediately. Obviously we don't know
[36:18] Speaker 1: how the threat was delivered. Presumably in the modern world
[36:22] Speaker 1: it would becoming electronically, and there's a whole collection of
[36:25] Speaker 1: ways that we can start to look our way back.
[36:28] Speaker 1: Is the Australian situation similar to what we imagine to
[36:32] Speaker 1: be like a protector at around say the Israeli president
[36:35] Speaker 1: when he was here, or an American president, which is
[36:38] Speaker 1: we're pretty good at being able to dig back through
[36:42] Speaker 1: what may have happened this evening or what has happened
[36:44] Speaker 1: this evening.
[36:45] Speaker 5: Oh look, I'm sure the fact that there has been
[36:48] Speaker 5: a threat and that he's been evacuated means that to me,
[36:52] Speaker 5: not knowing any more than you do right now, Paul.
[36:55] Speaker 5: But it sounds like that must have been possible for
[36:58] Speaker 5: a security breach on the lodge, right Otherwise they wouldn't
[37:02] Speaker 5: be evacuating him. A search would identify nothing, But the
[37:07] Speaker 5: fact that he was evacuated first means that someone possibly
[37:10] Speaker 5: had access to the lodge. Now, again, you know, I'm
[37:14] Speaker 5: running on fairly scanned information, but I'm just telling you
[37:17] Speaker 5: the way it is.
[37:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and that's really important because for obvious reasons,
[37:22] Speaker 1: there's the logical discussion that we're having right now, which
[37:26] Speaker 1: is perimeter fence, multiple senses, multiple cameras, guards that are
[37:31] Speaker 1: seeing all of that in terms of a physical entrance
[37:34] Speaker 1: to the place. Otherwise, again, as I was mentioning before,
[37:38] Speaker 1: potentially things like social media, email and all the rest
[37:41] Speaker 1: of it. But again, as you say, the urgency may
[37:44] Speaker 1: well suggest something very close to what you're saying as
[37:47] Speaker 1: an example of what may well have happened here. All
[37:50] Speaker 1: last question here, which is similar to what I just
[37:53] Speaker 1: asked cam Redden before. The AFP have told us about
[37:57] Speaker 1: the ever increasing number of threats that elected people in
[38:00] Speaker 1: this country are receiving. Does it concern you about how
[38:03] Speaker 1: much of it and do we need to throw more
[38:08] Speaker 1: physical bodies at it, more guards, more physical barriers even
[38:14] Speaker 1: around relatively low risk but still important elected officials in
[38:20] Speaker 1: this country.
[38:22] Speaker 5: It's a very good question, Paul, But I think it
[38:25] Speaker 5: comes back to the whole social cohesion. I mean, when
[38:28] Speaker 5: you have a government that has been so blase with security,
[38:32] Speaker 5: and I'm certainly not saying that Anthony Albertize deserves a
[38:36] Speaker 5: threat like, nothing like that whatsoever. I've protected Paul Bob
[38:41] Speaker 5: Hawk and Pauline Handsome, so if you look at the
[38:43] Speaker 5: spectrum there, I'll put my life on the line for
[38:45] Speaker 5: those two politicians. This is more about whether or not
[38:50] Speaker 5: we allow social cohesion to get to so fractured that
[38:54] Speaker 5: we feel like or some people, unscrewed people feel like
[38:58] Speaker 5: they need to take some violence into their own hands,
[39:01] Speaker 5: as we've seen in America and we've seen previously in
[39:03] Speaker 5: other countries. It's not the case. We are a democracy.
[39:07] Speaker 5: Regardless of what you think about Anthony Albersi or any
[39:10] Speaker 5: other politician. Violence is not the answer. And it's very
[39:15] Speaker 5: disappointing to think that it got to this point. I
[39:17] Speaker 5: and my heartfelt sympathia with mister Alberanzi and his family at.
[39:22] Speaker 1: The moment, mine too. Thank you very much, really appreciated, David.
[39:25] Speaker 1: We'll look forward to talking to you again when we
[39:27] Speaker 1: know more when the sun comes up again. The Prime
[39:30] Speaker 1: Minister is in a secure location, thankfully after a scenario
[39:34] Speaker 1: where nothing has been found at the lodge. There was
[39:37] Speaker 1: this threat that had happened about three and a bit
[39:40] Speaker 1: our three and three quarter hours ago, about six local time,
[39:43] Speaker 1: and thankfully the Prime Minister is safe and the systems
[39:46] Speaker 1: seem to have worked at this point. Very good news,
[39:49] Speaker 1: quick break. More in a moment here on Paul Murray Live.
[39:51] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for watching on Scots. Thank you
[39:57] Speaker 1: so much for watching. Now. Tomorrow morning is when the
[40:01] Speaker 1: full details are going to be released. Every couple of
[40:03] Speaker 1: tuesdays of the sky News Pulse. This is an opinion
[40:06] Speaker 1: poll which is put out by the Yugov organization who
[40:09] Speaker 1: got it very down close in the twenty twenty five election,
[40:12] Speaker 1: and they are looking into tonight one nation voters and
[40:16] Speaker 1: potential voters. But to make it official, I've got a
[40:19] Speaker 1: press play how exciting now our little preview of it
[40:28] Speaker 1: on the Tuesday night before it's released tomorrow morning at
[40:31] Speaker 1: sky news dot com. That a you half of all
[40:33] Speaker 1: of Australians are considering voting for one nation. We rather
[40:36] Speaker 1: talking about first preference or maybe putting it in as
[40:40] Speaker 1: number two question, would you ever seriously consider voting for
[40:43] Speaker 1: one nation? Fifty two percent No, forty eight percent say yes,
[40:48] Speaker 1: important tonight here Now I was going to stand up
[40:50] Speaker 1: and dog and pony here, but due to breaking news,
[40:53] Speaker 1: we'll bring it up in the screen as you can
[40:54] Speaker 1: see here on the other side of the man cave.
[40:57] Speaker 1: In terms of by party affiliation, what's interesting to note
[41:01] Speaker 1: here is twenty percent of Labor voters would be willing
[41:05] Speaker 1: to consider the vote for one nation, fifty four percent
[41:08] Speaker 1: of Coalition voters, fifteen percent of Green's voters. Could you
[41:12] Speaker 1: believe fifteen percent of Green's voters are potential one nation people?
[41:17] Speaker 1: What's the most important reason to consider voting for one nation?
[41:20] Speaker 1: Forty two percent of people say because they have no
[41:23] Speaker 1: further confidence in the political parties, the policies of one nation,
[41:27] Speaker 1: the leadership of Pauline Hansen, the addition of Barnaby Joyce.
[41:30] Speaker 1: But again pretty obviously they're dissatisfaction with the existing system. Now,
[41:34] Speaker 1: my reading of this, and again a sort of inside
[41:37] Speaker 1: liberals view that top number as great. These are winnable
[41:41] Speaker 1: people to win back. Now. I think this is the
[41:43] Speaker 1: people who are not winnable back because they've gone bugger
[41:46] Speaker 1: the system. You've done it your way for how long?
[41:48] Speaker 1: Bugger it? Time to change. But that's just my view.
[41:50] Speaker 1: We'll all find out together. As for liberal voters, forty
[41:52] Speaker 1: five percent are there when it comes to confidence in
[41:55] Speaker 1: the parties. As for the overall issues, the most important
[41:59] Speaker 1: is cost of living by an absolute country mile, followed
[42:01] Speaker 1: by immigration and housing affordability. Which party is best to
[42:06] Speaker 1: handle immigration? It will not surprise you. It's going to
[42:09] Speaker 1: be one nation at twenty nine percent, the government back
[42:12] Speaker 1: at twenty percent, and which is the party best on
[42:14] Speaker 1: cost of living? This is why Labor's vote has not changed,
[42:17] Speaker 1: because it is Labor who are leading that. This is
[42:19] Speaker 1: where if the coalition actually wants to get anywhere near
[42:22] Speaker 1: getting back in the fight, they've got to have an
[42:23] Speaker 1: answer on cost of living, not point at the fire.
[42:26] Speaker 1: Come up with a way to put it out. Twenty
[42:28] Speaker 1: five to twenty two, one nation at thirteen. It's not
[42:30] Speaker 1: his pole. His will be out in the Financial Review
[42:33] Speaker 1: Because samarus My plants to mention that a bit earlier
[42:35] Speaker 1: in the show, give you a few minutes to digest
[42:37] Speaker 1: and talk about a couple of other issues. But again
[42:39] Speaker 1: it's a U gub pole. They've been pretty good at
[42:40] Speaker 1: the last election Redbridge which is up and has been
[42:44] Speaker 1: excellent as well. That is up in the Financial Review soon,
[42:46] Speaker 1: he joins us. Now, now again this picture, because we
[42:50] Speaker 1: are at this moment now where the Liberal Party has
[42:52] Speaker 1: changed its leader wall to wall coverage. They can't pretend
[42:55] Speaker 1: I'll have to take a couple of months before they
[42:57] Speaker 1: get one point back. The Morgan pole, well, it's the
[43:00] Speaker 1: only one that's publicly come out to say they got
[43:02] Speaker 1: three and a bit percent primary back. That's what you're
[43:06] Speaker 1: paying attention to in your own cycles here about whether
[43:09] Speaker 1: the Libs have found signs of life, because even if
[43:12] Speaker 1: it's three and a half percent, that's hardly a new
[43:14] Speaker 1: leader bounce.
[43:16] Speaker 10: Yeah. Look, I think they can change leaders all they want.
[43:20] Speaker 10: The fundamental problem, as we've seen in that report and
[43:23] Speaker 10: you guns findings, is that the two party systems, the
[43:27] Speaker 10: two party system in our country is under enormous stress.
[43:32] Speaker 10: An increasing number of Australians don't want Coles and wiworths
[43:36] Speaker 10: of politics anymore, and no amount of a spin no
[43:40] Speaker 10: amount of anything in that space is going to change
[43:42] Speaker 10: people's minds. Obviously, the political impact is overwhelming on the
[43:46] Speaker 10: coalition side. Hence I wouldn't rule out in the years
[43:51] Speaker 10: to come where we see a situation where one nation
[43:54] Speaker 10: is the major party competing against the Labor Party.
[43:57] Speaker 1: Now, obviously this is and I don't disagree right because
[44:02] Speaker 1: part of the Liberal Party to this point, he can
[44:04] Speaker 1: I argue it to be a strength by design or
[44:07] Speaker 1: election winning machine over the pus is this concept of
[44:10] Speaker 1: the broad tent right, Well, again, that's when the choice
[44:12] Speaker 1: of coke and pepsi, that is when it's Coles and woollies.
[44:14] Speaker 1: But when are you even talking about adding an aldi
[44:17] Speaker 1: Here we're talking about all of the different choices that exist,
[44:21] Speaker 1: from the local mayor who you like, to the Tiffany
[44:23] Speaker 1: Teel is being backed in by the billionaires, whatever version
[44:26] Speaker 1: of the Clive Palmer, the libertarian, even the Victorian socialists
[44:30] Speaker 1: who don't think that the Greens are lefty enough. But
[44:33] Speaker 1: speak to that idea about one nation becoming that major
[44:36] Speaker 1: opposition party. Does their strength come through clarity and the
[44:40] Speaker 1: fact that there is no internal debate between the left
[44:44] Speaker 1: and the right. Labor has it but it happens behind
[44:47] Speaker 1: closed doors, and then solidarity means they all go out
[44:50] Speaker 1: and Penny Wong has to pretencies against gay marriage in
[44:53] Speaker 1: the Libs. It's all played out in front of us
[44:55] Speaker 1: that there are lefty Libs and right wing Libs. But
[44:57] Speaker 1: we all know with one nation, there's Paula and the
[45:00] Speaker 1: people who agree with her.
[45:02] Speaker 10: Yeah, look at fundamental driver or all of this is
[45:05] Speaker 10: a sense by a growing number of Australians that the
[45:08] Speaker 10: political system is not servicing them. They've endured a pandemic,
[45:13] Speaker 10: they've come out of that, they've been hit by inflationary crisis.
[45:16] Speaker 10: They've had you know, numerous interest rate rises. They went down,
[45:22] Speaker 10: they're going up again. There's really no economic hope for
[45:27] Speaker 10: many Australians out there at the moment, and they're rejecting
[45:30] Speaker 10: the system. And that's fundamentally the core of the problem here.
[45:34] Speaker 10: And you know, I wouldn't rule out, for example, in
[45:38] Speaker 10: some states where the two major parties are really on
[45:41] Speaker 10: the nose, where we would see three four way contests
[45:45] Speaker 10: in multiple seats at state elections. You know, we probably
[45:50] Speaker 10: will see that at the end of the year in Victoria,
[45:51] Speaker 10: where we will see eighty eight different contests and projecting
[45:57] Speaker 10: a two party preferred vote in that environment fairly maintains
[46:02] Speaker 10: you probably want to be looking at how the Europeans
[46:06] Speaker 10: look at their politics, because I think we're heading there
[46:08] Speaker 10: pretty quickly.
[46:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel right that. Again, you know, Labor,
[46:13] Speaker 1: if it wants to form some form of a coalition,
[46:15] Speaker 1: can do it with Greens and teals the opportunity for
[46:17] Speaker 1: one nation to be able to do it with Libs,
[46:19] Speaker 1: Nats and again maybe you know the local mayor fascinating
[46:23] Speaker 1: to watch. Can I just ask you again about if
[46:26] Speaker 1: you're seeing any greater clarity around that concept of preferences,
[46:30] Speaker 1: because when they're sitting at twenty eight, twenty six, twenty three,
[46:33] Speaker 1: twenty two or twenty one, the band is either almost
[46:37] Speaker 1: thirty or almost twenty. I'm in a back in where
[46:39] Speaker 1: you are, where demos and where the pulse is, which
[46:42] Speaker 1: is closer to thirty that overall number. Again, with the
[46:46] Speaker 1: Yuga Pol suggesting forty eight percent of people willing to
[46:48] Speaker 1: vote for them, that means they'll vote number one or
[46:50] Speaker 1: give them their preferences. What does that tell you about
[46:54] Speaker 1: the viability not just of fighting, not just losing two
[46:58] Speaker 1: PP to Labor, but as you say, getting the seats
[47:01] Speaker 1: to be the most obvious non labor party in the parliament.
[47:06] Speaker 10: I mean they're polling right now across all of our polls,
[47:10] Speaker 10: whether it's Ours, whether it's your Guards, whether it's other
[47:12] Speaker 10: polsters as well well into the high twenties. If they're
[47:17] Speaker 10: polling an average across the country of that number, then
[47:21] Speaker 10: they are sitting thirty five to forty five percent in
[47:24] Speaker 10: a lot of seats in particularly regional Australia, so they
[47:27] Speaker 10: will be picking up seats. They will basically beat the
[47:31] Speaker 10: National Party and the Liberal Party as the major conservative
[47:36] Speaker 10: force in a number of regional electorates. Now the flip
[47:40] Speaker 10: side to that also is that they will have an
[47:41] Speaker 10: impact in outer suburban Australia as well, mainly again on
[47:46] Speaker 10: the coalition side, but there is some movement from labor
[47:49] Speaker 10: voters to one nation in out of suburban areas. Think
[47:53] Speaker 10: of Ipswich, Penrith, Melton, those areas where we're seeing that
[47:59] Speaker 10: movement occur.
[48:00] Speaker 1: Well and again in the yugov Again not your poll,
[48:02] Speaker 1: just literally what I'm showing the ankle on tonight is
[48:05] Speaker 1: when it comes to those labor voters that are willing
[48:08] Speaker 1: to even think about one nation again, what about twenty percent?
[48:12] Speaker 1: It was so again, that's where the preference game comes in.
[48:15] Speaker 1: If anyone can work out our fifteen percent of Greens
[48:17] Speaker 1: somehow have a way of connecting into one nation. I'm
[48:23] Speaker 1: fascinated to see. I do appreciate and cause, yeah, well
[48:26] Speaker 1: and that's it. And that's where again the Libs who think, oh,
[48:28] Speaker 1: you know, new code of paid and we're starting to
[48:30] Speaker 1: say the polite version, that's not going to work. If
[48:33] Speaker 1: Labour wants to turn around and say well we're really
[48:35] Speaker 1: helping with cost of living when it's four fifty of
[48:37] Speaker 1: bugger all. At the end of the day, that ain't
[48:39] Speaker 1: going to happen either. There's going to be some big
[48:41] Speaker 1: changes on the way. Do appreciate it, mate. We'll take
[48:43] Speaker 1: a break after that, the late debate. We're back on
[48:45] Speaker 1: the Telly tomorrow and I we're our special guest, of course,
[48:47] Speaker 1: is Meghan Kelly. See tomorrow

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