# Paul Murray Live | 18 December

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 18 Dec 2025, 50 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/e8f8a44d-40fa-4075-9b95-b3b700c93496/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Five men 'headed for Bondi' detained by heavily armed police on busy Liverpool Street in Sydney. Plus, Anthony Albanese was a no-show at the funeral of 10-year-old Bondi attack victim Matilda because his office did not reach out to attend. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: From the Skying Insetter.
[0:02] Speaker 2: This is Paul Murray Live, Good Evening, waglot of other
[0:07] Speaker 2: special edition of Paul Murray Live. This is how we
[0:10] Speaker 2: end our year together. But tonight again we focus on
[0:13] Speaker 2: the situation in and around Bondi. Some very big things
[0:17] Speaker 2: have happened. We'll go live there in a moment or
[0:19] Speaker 2: two time. As you know this program, we are pro
[0:22] Speaker 2: cop why because they run towards danger all day every day.
[0:25] Speaker 2: It is not as significant sometimes as what has been
[0:29] Speaker 2: dealt with in the past few days, but obviously the
[0:32] Speaker 2: danger that they run towards each and every day often
[0:35] Speaker 2: goes unheralded. Well. A perfect example about why we're pro
[0:38] Speaker 2: cop played out in Sydney's Southwest just before sunset, when
[0:44] Speaker 2: five men allegedly headed for Bondi were confronted quite dramatically
[0:51] Speaker 2: by police. Those people have been arrested and, as they say,
[0:55] Speaker 2: helping with inquiries. We learned today that two of the
[1:00] Speaker 2: men laid down on the road directly behind the stop vehicle,
[1:04] Speaker 2: while others appeared to have been detained on a footpath.
[1:08] Speaker 2: Why the men were traveling to bond it is still
[1:09] Speaker 2: not known. Images taken following the arrest show two men
[1:14] Speaker 2: clad in black on their knees, hands in zip ties
[1:18] Speaker 2: behind their backs effectively handcuffed police. At five o'clock they
[1:22] Speaker 2: confirmed that the operation was underway on George Street in Liverpool.
[1:26] Speaker 2: Thankfully no ongoing risk to the community. Rubber bullets appeared
[1:30] Speaker 2: to have been fired during this confrontation. Photo showing a
[1:35] Speaker 2: smashed section of windscreen. A second video shows what appears
[1:39] Speaker 2: to be a second arrest of a man traveling in
[1:41] Speaker 2: another car, this one with Victorian number plates, and that
[1:45] Speaker 2: incident happened near a service way. When there's more information
[1:49] Speaker 2: throughout the night, and I do expect a little more
[1:51] Speaker 2: from the police in the next little while, we'll obviously
[1:53] Speaker 2: pass it on. The good situation is that it is
[1:56] Speaker 2: a safe situation where the arrest has happened in Liverpool
[1:59] Speaker 2: and a safe situation right now in Bondi, which brings
[2:02] Speaker 2: us to a very big thing that happened today. To me,
[2:08] Speaker 2: it is quite amazing that the police have been able
[2:10] Speaker 2: to do all of the relative technical work that needed
[2:14] Speaker 2: to be done in and around the crime scene within
[2:17] Speaker 2: four days. The beach is now reopen, it's reopen for swimming.
[2:23] Speaker 2: All of the barricades have gone and people are even
[2:26] Speaker 2: walking over and pausing at times. But the bridge where
[2:31] Speaker 2: much of this tragedy emanated from, people are able to
[2:34] Speaker 2: come and go, no restrictions, no candles, no memorials, no
[2:40] Speaker 2: messages at all. Instead, it's all been reopened some of
[2:44] Speaker 2: the people who were at Bondo Beach today as it
[2:47] Speaker 2: basically is back to normal. Now. Remember Sunday night is
[2:50] Speaker 2: when all of the madness took place. Fifteen lives are lost,
[2:55] Speaker 2: and by Thursday night there is no signs of the
[2:58] Speaker 2: tragedy whatsoever, apart from the flowers just down the road
[3:01] Speaker 2: in the middle of the beach of the Bondai Pavilion.
[3:04] Speaker 3: It took me ten minutes to come, like, stand here,
[3:07] Speaker 3: a sense of God here, looked over my iver was
[3:10] Speaker 3: dropped to my knees.
[3:12] Speaker 2: Now, this may be what normally happens after an event,
[3:16] Speaker 2: certainly one that would involve say a fatal car accident,
[3:19] Speaker 2: potentially something that's happened in home or shootings, but there
[3:23] Speaker 2: is to me just an odd feeling about how open
[3:28] Speaker 2: the area has become. We'll talk to Jonie Seal in
[3:30] Speaker 2: a second, who's in and around Bondai, But essentially there
[3:33] Speaker 2: are virtually no signs of what took place just a
[3:38] Speaker 2: few days ago. Now, whether this is about trying to
[3:41] Speaker 2: return things to normal as soon as possible, this is
[3:44] Speaker 2: somewhat understood. But the idea that there is no at
[3:48] Speaker 2: this moment sort of intermediate memorial or intermediate marking of
[3:54] Speaker 2: what took place, right down to the details that even
[3:57] Speaker 2: the picnic Tables Council provided. They are all exactly as
[4:02] Speaker 2: they were on Sunday, and you considered them from right now.
[4:08] Speaker 4: A moment of reflection for some of the police officers
[4:11] Speaker 4: who faced evil on this bridge. Then minutes later, the
[4:15] Speaker 4: crime scene tape came down and the pathway to one
[4:18] Speaker 4: of the world's most famous beaches was open again. The
[4:22] Speaker 4: bridge was where the alleged gunman took aim less than
[4:25] Speaker 4: forty meters from the crowd. Then there was the spot
[4:28] Speaker 4: where Ahmed el Ahmed made his move, and the tree
[4:31] Speaker 4: that shielded the police officer who took one of them down.
[4:35] Speaker 4: Bullet holes now filled with clay.
[4:38] Speaker 2: It's extraordinary, right How again, I'm not suggesting that it's disrespectful,
[4:42] Speaker 2: or it's a desecration of the area, or that the
[4:44] Speaker 2: area needed to be hemetically sealed for weeks and months
[4:47] Speaker 2: to come but it is pretty amazing how fast we move.
[4:53] Speaker 2: I've talked a few times about how particularly the Sunday
[4:57] Speaker 2: night to Monday night felt like a week worth of
[5:00] Speaker 2: events had all been constantined from memorials and speeches and
[5:05] Speaker 2: politicians visits and even normally at major news events, your
[5:09] Speaker 2: six pm news is are coming live, Well, they only
[5:12] Speaker 2: were there for one day. Same with the breakfast shows
[5:15] Speaker 2: in terms of their hosts, and either they were back
[5:17] Speaker 2: to HQ or they were off the holidays. Again, I'm
[5:19] Speaker 2: not saying that this is insensitive. It's just about the
[5:22] Speaker 2: speed with which either modern life moves or the need
[5:26] Speaker 2: to reopen one of the most public spaces in the
[5:28] Speaker 2: country has taken place. Again, We'll talk to Janey about
[5:31] Speaker 2: what that feels like. It does feel odd to me.
[5:34] Speaker 2: It's good that things get back to normal, it's good
[5:36] Speaker 2: that the place is reclaimed for all citizens of Australia
[5:41] Speaker 2: and all visitors to it. But can you know what
[5:43] Speaker 2: you think about this? Obviously today more funerals have taken place.
[5:48] Speaker 2: In the Jewish tradition, they have to happen as soon
[5:50] Speaker 2: as possible. For obvious investigative reasons, things have been dragged out,
[5:55] Speaker 2: perhaps a day or two days longer than would otherwise
[5:59] Speaker 2: be the case. And you saw the extremes of whom
[6:02] Speaker 2: has been taken from us, including an eighty seven year
[6:05] Speaker 2: old man, and of course survived the Holocaust. It was
[6:09] Speaker 2: taken on Bondi Beach. The youngest, of course, little Matilda,
[6:15] Speaker 2: named after the beauty of the country that is Australia,
[6:18] Speaker 2: after a family came here from Ukraine looking for peace.
[6:22] Speaker 2: Matilda's funeral particularly emotional for the most obvious of reasons.
[6:26] Speaker 2: His son of what happened at that funeral. Today we
[6:29] Speaker 2: have to continue. Right now, we have to grieve this
[6:35] Speaker 2: Eastleavecreak has time to cry.
[6:39] Speaker 1: With all of the belief, with all.
[6:41] Speaker 2: Of our intellectualizing it, nothing will help. The sorrow is
[6:46] Speaker 2: too great to bear. But ultimately we have to go
[6:49] Speaker 2: on and this is the only way to respect those
[6:52] Speaker 2: that were taken away from us. The memorials, of course
[6:55] Speaker 2: continue and will for the next few days, this being
[6:58] Speaker 2: the fifth night of the multi night festival of Huneker,
[7:02] Speaker 2: which is about lighting candles in order to bring light
[7:05] Speaker 2: to darkness. And there is no place in the world
[7:07] Speaker 2: that needs that light over darkness than Bondo right now.
[7:10] Speaker 2: But as you can see with the pictures that we
[7:12] Speaker 2: are getting. What started off as just a couple of
[7:16] Speaker 2: tributes is of course now become an absolute important place.
[7:20] Speaker 2: I would imagine the crowds which have been big all
[7:22] Speaker 2: week will surge on a Friday and into Saturday and Sunday,
[7:28] Speaker 2: particularly that week on we're hearing some plans for bigger memorials.
[7:32] Speaker 2: You'll see all of that, of course, live on Sky
[7:34] Speaker 2: News all the way through tomorrow the weekend, and of
[7:37] Speaker 2: course full coverage as everything unfolds. As you know, the
[7:43] Speaker 2: Prime Minister was nowhere near these funerals. He has been
[7:47] Speaker 2: nowhere near the ones that have taken place yesterday, nowhere
[7:50] Speaker 2: near the ones that have taken today, and my guess
[7:53] Speaker 2: is nowhere near the ones that will happen in the
[7:54] Speaker 2: next few days. Understandably, people are frustrated and just outright
[8:00] Speaker 2: angered that this bloke is nowhere near it because he's
[8:03] Speaker 2: too much of a coward to turn up and cop
[8:06] Speaker 2: it for the local community of which he in part
[8:09] Speaker 2: has othered for the past two years.
[8:12] Speaker 5: Where is our prime Minister, Where is he showing the courage,
[8:16] Speaker 5: Where is he seeing the whites of the eyes of
[8:18] Speaker 5: a mother that just and father that buried their child.
[8:22] Speaker 2: Now, this was a question that was asked in a
[8:24] Speaker 2: couple of different ways of the Prime Minister. I wanted
[8:27] Speaker 2: you to be able to hear the full question and
[8:29] Speaker 2: the full word salad. This bloke does not know how
[8:32] Speaker 2: to answer this question multiple days into this because he
[8:35] Speaker 2: knows that any answery offers is not the appropriate one. Now, understandably,
[8:39] Speaker 2: if a family says please don't come anywhere near this,
[8:42] Speaker 2: well then you can understand why the Prime Minister is
[8:44] Speaker 2: nowhere near it. But there's some reporting that I'll bring
[8:47] Speaker 2: you in a moment or two his time, which will
[8:48] Speaker 2: do more than raise an eyebrow and may well raise
[8:51] Speaker 2: your blood pressure. He is the back and forth in
[8:53] Speaker 2: the courtyard today.
[8:56] Speaker 6: Arthur Massacre, John Howard went to rallies. He engaged face
[8:59] Speaker 6: to face in the commune. Even after the bushwise Scott
[9:02] Speaker 6: Morrison went down to the South coast and got some
[9:06] Speaker 6: tough feedback. My question is why haven't you attended any
[9:10] Speaker 6: of the funerals. Why have you been saying that you
[9:11] Speaker 6: weren't invited. Generally, the process is that the Prime Minister's
[9:14] Speaker 6: office reaches out to the families and asks permission respectfully
[9:17] Speaker 6: to attend and will you be returning to Bondai to
[9:20] Speaker 6: meet with victims face to face, even if that means
[9:23] Speaker 6: receiving some really tough criticism.
[9:25] Speaker 7: I have done that.
[9:26] Speaker 3: I was in I haven't just been down in Bondai
[9:31] Speaker 3: on Monday morning when at what is now the Large
[9:36] Speaker 3: Memorial very early on, I met with police. I've met
[9:40] Speaker 3: with members of the community. I've been to homes in Bondai.
[9:44] Speaker 3: Just on Tuesday, I visited the home of Rabbi Mendel Castell,
[9:50] Speaker 3: met with families grieving going through complete trauma, and I
[9:58] Speaker 3: understand that wo I met with the families there and
[10:04] Speaker 3: have spoken to them. I certainly you know I respect
[10:09] Speaker 3: the wishes of families. I respect the wishes of families,
[10:17] Speaker 3: and I will continue continue to engage with the community.
[10:21] Speaker 3: I met with the community leaders and members last night.
[10:25] Speaker 3: On the night before, I was with grieving families as
[10:28] Speaker 3: well and community leaders at Admiralty House. Each and every day,
[10:33] Speaker 3: I've met face to face with people who are going
[10:38] Speaker 3: through the worst of grieving processes as well, and I'll
[10:44] Speaker 3: continue to engage with them.
[10:47] Speaker 2: I mean, the stuff so dishonest. There are fifteen key
[10:52] Speaker 2: families and all of them report the same thing that
[10:54] Speaker 2: there has not been interaction. There of course, have been
[10:58] Speaker 2: labor people front and center. We've seen Chris Mins, including
[11:02] Speaker 2: reading a poem on the behalf of Matilda's family at
[11:05] Speaker 2: her funeral today. He's been in attendance at most of them.
[11:09] Speaker 2: He's been openly invited to attend all of them. Tanya Plebersek,
[11:13] Speaker 2: who of course, in a political sense, is a factional
[11:16] Speaker 2: enemy of the Prime minister. While she was there today,
[11:21] Speaker 2: Samantha Maiden, who was the one asking the question, put
[11:24] Speaker 2: it in to print at news dot com dot are
[11:27] Speaker 2: you about why the prime minister specifically is not there.
[11:33] Speaker 2: Prime minist Anthony Albernezi was a no show at the
[11:35] Speaker 2: funeral of ten year old Bondi attack victim Matilda because
[11:40] Speaker 2: his office did not reach out to attend. Unbelievable, noting
[11:46] Speaker 2: that her parents were upset with the government over the
[11:48] Speaker 2: fatire to tackle anti Semitism. News dot com dot Au
[11:51] Speaker 2: understands that Matilda's grandparents live in Miss Piblosi's electorate and
[11:55] Speaker 2: she reached out to offer her condolences and accepted an
[11:58] Speaker 2: invitation to attend as a market of beat for the
[12:00] Speaker 2: little girl. Government sources have also confirmed what mister Albinezi
[12:03] Speaker 2: declined to say at today's press conference he did not
[12:05] Speaker 2: attend because he did not request to attend, a reflection
[12:09] Speaker 2: of the fact that his attendants might have upset the family.
[12:12] Speaker 2: What a disgrace. Now again, every one of the families
[12:15] Speaker 2: has the opportunity to turn around and angrily dismiss the
[12:18] Speaker 2: Prime Minister, to have no interest whatsoever in having the
[12:21] Speaker 2: Prime Minister there. But what a lack of courage and
[12:24] Speaker 2: a show of coward as it is from the Prime
[12:26] Speaker 2: Minister that he doesn't even offer his hand. Now it
[12:30] Speaker 2: may well be slacked away, he may well be booed,
[12:34] Speaker 2: but the idea that he didn't even extend it. Instead,
[12:37] Speaker 2: it's all arm's length, early morning media appearances hundreds of
[12:41] Speaker 2: kilometers away today to try to react to the events
[12:48] Speaker 2: of Sunday night, selective photo ops with very little notice
[12:54] Speaker 2: for the media. This is all about the appearance of
[12:56] Speaker 2: being involved in it, as opposed to, as we know,
[12:59] Speaker 2: when it is politic lear vintageous to be around things
[13:01] Speaker 2: like ex tropical cyclone Alfred oh all day every day. Now,
[13:07] Speaker 2: Scott Morrison knew what he was going to cop when
[13:10] Speaker 2: he turned up to those fires on the South coast.
[13:13] Speaker 2: He had the courage to turn up. John Howard knew
[13:16] Speaker 2: what he would cop when he was confronting his own base.
[13:19] Speaker 2: That is the test of the Prime Minister is to
[13:22] Speaker 2: go into not hostile ground because it's Australia. He's free
[13:25] Speaker 2: to be able to go everywhere and he should be
[13:27] Speaker 2: welcomed everywhere. But the idea that he's not even trying
[13:31] Speaker 2: to bridge a gap here tells you everything about a
[13:34] Speaker 2: person who is absolutely obsessed with the sense of self image,
[13:39] Speaker 2: surrounded by a collection of people who are all employed
[13:42] Speaker 2: to puff up that image. We've learned a lot about
[13:45] Speaker 2: Anthony Abernezy in the past week, not a lot of
[13:50] Speaker 2: it any people would particularly like. And then there was
[13:55] Speaker 2: the managing of the Prime Minister delivering a footballers apology. Now,
[14:02] Speaker 2: this is what he said back in March of twenty
[14:07] Speaker 2: twenty two. It was famously a big FU to the
[14:10] Speaker 2: big bad evil Scott Morrison. This is what he promised
[14:13] Speaker 2: when he was talking about his own potential leadership of
[14:15] Speaker 2: the country.
[14:17] Speaker 3: If I'm Prime Minister, I won't go missing when the
[14:21] Speaker 3: going gets tough, or post for photos and then disappear
[14:26] Speaker 3: when there's a job to be done.
[14:29] Speaker 2: But of course he has become exactly that.
[14:35] Speaker 3: If I'm Prime Minister, I won't go missing when the
[14:38] Speaker 3: going gets tough, or post for photos and then disappear
[14:43] Speaker 3: when there's a job to be done.
[14:47] Speaker 2: Now, rather than simply saying sorry, sorry for not seeing
[14:51] Speaker 2: things as seriously as they are, he's trying to get
[14:53] Speaker 2: credit tonight for reacting. But of course the reacting has
[14:58] Speaker 2: only happened because fifteen people have been murdered. That's extraordinary. Now.
[15:05] Speaker 2: The idea that everything that was in the Seagal report
[15:07] Speaker 2: would have prevented what took place, Who knows, but it
[15:10] Speaker 2: certainly as a statement would have shown as the intention
[15:14] Speaker 2: of where the Prime Minister is. He has become everything
[15:17] Speaker 2: that he claimed not to be, from transparency to this
[15:21] Speaker 2: fulling engaging. He wants to walk around like he's the
[15:25] Speaker 2: big tough guy while simultaneously saying there's a new politics
[15:29] Speaker 2: where we are not too muscular about things. You can
[15:32] Speaker 2: see the calculations in every move that he's making at
[15:35] Speaker 2: the moment, and maybe it's just because I know the game,
[15:41] Speaker 2: but I can see someone playing it as the Prime
[15:43] Speaker 2: Minister is out and about, And of course he couldn't
[15:46] Speaker 2: say sorry, because sorry would mean either an admission of
[15:50] Speaker 2: failure or would somehow give the people that he so
[15:52] Speaker 2: politically hates a win. Well, i'll give you the tip
[15:56] Speaker 2: as a person who politically is not a fan of
[15:58] Speaker 2: this Prime minister. It is not about a win. It
[16:01] Speaker 2: is about a Prime minister understanding that he trying to
[16:04] Speaker 2: play both sides of the fence. Well, he got caught
[16:07] Speaker 2: on the barbed wire. This was as close as the
[16:11] Speaker 2: Prime Minister comes in what I refer to us a
[16:13] Speaker 2: footballers apology, you know, those sorry if I offended you,
[16:17] Speaker 2: rather than I'm really sorry for what I did. That's
[16:20] Speaker 2: what I thought the Prime Minister was doing today.
[16:23] Speaker 3: Governments aren't perfect. I'm not perfect.
[16:27] Speaker 2: Again, like a footballer with those incensere almost gunpoint apologies
[16:34] Speaker 2: to the fans. I'm sorry for the upset the course
[16:37] Speaker 2: I'm putting my hand up on.
[16:38] Speaker 8: You know I shouldn't have done.
[16:40] Speaker 7: A club would also like to apologize unreservedly.
[16:43] Speaker 9: I am in no way of victim, but by going away,
[16:45] Speaker 9: it's giving me the space to reflect.
[16:47] Speaker 7: Apologies to the funds. There's any good enough for this club.
[16:53] Speaker 2: Now. I apologize for the metaphor given the circumstances, but
[16:55] Speaker 2: you understand how instancy those things are. They don't think
[16:58] Speaker 2: they're sorry, and the Prime Minister probably does think is perfect.
[17:02] Speaker 2: It is just not hard to say when I look
[17:05] Speaker 2: back at the past two years, we should have gone
[17:08] Speaker 2: harder and faster. See the word sorry isn't in there.
[17:12] Speaker 2: But I'm not perfect is not sorry. I'm not perfect
[17:16] Speaker 2: is a crumb, a crumb of accountability. But as you know,
[17:25] Speaker 2: the announcements today we're all about trying to say that
[17:28] Speaker 2: the government is finally acting now. They don't get any
[17:31] Speaker 2: credit for finally acting because remember, the only reason they
[17:34] Speaker 2: are acting and the only reason they are doing what
[17:37] Speaker 2: they are doing, is because fifteen people died. But it
[17:41] Speaker 2: is incredible the number of people that want to turn
[17:43] Speaker 2: around and pretend that something major has happened today. Of
[17:48] Speaker 2: course much of the media no interest in pointing that out. Instead,
[17:51] Speaker 2: it's just the progression in the story and the Prime
[17:53] Speaker 2: Minister's finally got it.
[17:56] Speaker 8: The Prime Minister has unveiled sweeping new laws to crush
[17:59] Speaker 8: hate speeds, wh and extremism.
[18:01] Speaker 5: Among new laws and new aggravated hate speech evans targeting
[18:05] Speaker 5: preachers or leaders promoting violence, increase penalties for promoting violence,
[18:10] Speaker 5: particularly online, and listing organizations promoting hate.
[18:14] Speaker 2: The PM announcing new measures to combat hate.
[18:16] Speaker 7: Speech, announcing new powers to deal with hate preachers, reject
[18:21] Speaker 7: their visas, apply tougher penalties.
[18:24] Speaker 2: Again the promise didn't do this last week because he
[18:26] Speaker 2: wanted to. He's done it this week because he has to.
[18:30] Speaker 2: And of course the detail is not there because nobody's
[18:32] Speaker 2: been working on the detail. They're not going to be
[18:35] Speaker 2: recalling parliament because there is no detail. This was all
[18:39] Speaker 2: about trying to quarterize a political wound rather than try
[18:44] Speaker 2: to prevent the spread of antisemitism around Australia. Now, let's
[18:50] Speaker 2: go through some of this stuff here. Right, They want
[18:53] Speaker 2: to make it easier to reject visas or to boot
[18:57] Speaker 2: people out of the country for hate or division. Now
[19:02] Speaker 2: you automatically think that that's going to be a hate preacher. Well,
[19:04] Speaker 2: remember previously justification for keeping people out like Donald Trump
[19:08] Speaker 2: Junior has been hate. So all of this stuff is
[19:11] Speaker 2: not about anti semitism. All of this is about the
[19:13] Speaker 2: generic standard of hate, Tougher penalties for anyone who is
[19:18] Speaker 2: spreading hate or violence, a task force to look into
[19:24] Speaker 2: the education system when it comes to their role in
[19:26] Speaker 2: anti semitism, Harder rules to fight racism in university and
[19:30] Speaker 2: to set up a website for more information about how
[19:33] Speaker 2: people can fight it online. Now, can I just say
[19:36] Speaker 2: about the hate preacher stuff. If there is a tweaking
[19:40] Speaker 2: that means many of the people that we've all seen
[19:42] Speaker 2: on our screens get caught, excellent. But if people are
[19:46] Speaker 2: going to use the defense of I'm just reading from
[19:49] Speaker 2: the text, then you know what's going to happen here.
[19:54] Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of faith there's going to
[19:55] Speaker 2: be a big change here, but we'll debate it at
[19:56] Speaker 2: a moment or twoth time. Let's go to Joni Sel
[19:58] Speaker 2: who is in Bondai. You've lived and loved that part
[20:01] Speaker 2: of Australia for a really long time. You've done excellent
[20:05] Speaker 2: reporting from the memorial. But am I the only one
[20:08] Speaker 2: who is just noting that it's amazing that within four
[20:12] Speaker 2: days everything is back open, including the place where people
[20:17] Speaker 2: died and the place where people's lives were being taken from.
[20:23] Speaker 10: Yeah, Paul, you are right, just one or two locked
[20:27] Speaker 10: off parts here, just the car parks in front of us.
[20:30] Speaker 10: But other than that, Paul, Yeah, you're right, pretty much
[20:33] Speaker 10: everything is open. We're down at the beach at about
[20:35] Speaker 10: midday to day, and I mean it's been a beautiful day.
[20:39] Speaker 10: Probably think it would have been more packed than what
[20:41] Speaker 10: it was. We spoke to some people at the local shop,
[20:45] Speaker 10: Glory Days Is there is their cafe. We spoke to
[20:48] Speaker 10: the manager and he said that he had his locals
[20:52] Speaker 10: back there and they got the ticket approval to bring
[20:55] Speaker 10: back everybody. A lot of people from overseas. We chatted
[20:58] Speaker 10: to them as well, and you know, he just wanted
[21:00] Speaker 10: to make it a safe space. So yeah, it does
[21:02] Speaker 10: look like it's starting to get back to what Bondai
[21:05] Speaker 10: used to be.
[21:05] Speaker 2: Paul, Yeah, I don't know if you can see from
[21:08] Speaker 2: the hosting position. I know you can see from obviously
[21:10] Speaker 2: walking around and you've been doing plenty of that, but
[21:13] Speaker 2: just that idea that that breach is reopened the memorialize
[21:18] Speaker 2: The memorial is of course a little further down, and
[21:21] Speaker 2: that's because the other areas were sealed off. I don't
[21:25] Speaker 2: know what plan there is for either that floral arrangement
[21:27] Speaker 2: to move up or that remains the same and then
[21:29] Speaker 2: on the eighth day or the ninth day. But again,
[21:33] Speaker 2: it's interesting that you haven't seen a whole bunch of
[21:36] Speaker 2: people with chalk or people with flags or anything. There
[21:39] Speaker 2: seems to be of these very early hours that people
[21:43] Speaker 2: are aware of what's happened there, but they don't want
[21:45] Speaker 2: a physical reminder of it.
[21:49] Speaker 10: Yes, indeed, we have certainly heard a lot of sirens
[21:53] Speaker 10: today over the last few days, the choppers, they have
[21:57] Speaker 10: settled down. But I mean, you're right, you've been here
[21:59] Speaker 10: for the three decades, Paul, and since October seven, twenty
[22:04] Speaker 10: twenty three, there have been quite a few choppers circling
[22:08] Speaker 10: around at night and all sorts of early hours of
[22:11] Speaker 10: the morning. But yes, recently, of course, since Sunday night.
[22:16] Speaker 10: I mean when we were here on Sunday night, you
[22:18] Speaker 10: could hear paul A basically saying if anybody isn't an
[22:22] Speaker 10: emergency worker, can you please leave? That was just frightening.
[22:25] Speaker 10: And to see so many police cars I counted them
[22:28] Speaker 10: when I was just standing there. Couldn't get in at
[22:31] Speaker 10: the time, and there was at least twenty five police cars,
[22:34] Speaker 10: twenty five ambulance and that was just in one small view.
[22:39] Speaker 10: So again there are a lot of police here still.
[22:42] Speaker 10: But behind me, Paul, that the vigil. We had the
[22:46] Speaker 10: funerals today, Matilda being the youngest ten year old and
[22:51] Speaker 10: I didn't go to the funeral, but we've been here
[22:53] Speaker 10: and there was so many people, hundreds of people. They
[22:57] Speaker 10: all sang walsing Matilda, and the people leading the song
[23:00] Speaker 10: asked everybody to lift their phones up to light their
[23:05] Speaker 10: torch and it was very, very moving. And I just
[23:08] Speaker 10: spoke to a couple of the community members that no
[23:12] Speaker 10: Matilda and that were at the funeral, and basically they
[23:15] Speaker 10: said that she was born in Australia.
[23:18] Speaker 9: She was from a.
[23:19] Speaker 10: Ukrainian family, but the first family member to be born
[23:23] Speaker 10: in Australia. And I think you've been telling your viewers
[23:26] Speaker 10: about why they chose Matilda the name, because they wanted
[23:29] Speaker 10: it to be one of the most Australian names. But
[23:32] Speaker 10: they said they were very grateful. I'm going to get
[23:33] Speaker 10: more information on this, but they said that they were
[23:35] Speaker 10: grateful because their son was in Australia and not in
[23:39] Speaker 10: Ukraine fighting. So it's just heartbreaking, isn't it. Just the
[23:45] Speaker 10: youngest and of course fifteen innocent lives lost.
[23:48] Speaker 2: Jennie, so many with injuries. Still, yeah, Jennie woman, colleagues
[23:51] Speaker 2: for a long time, friends, for all of that time.
[23:53] Speaker 2: You're a person of incredible skill that we've seen on camera,
[23:56] Speaker 2: but your empathy has been really important for all of
[23:58] Speaker 2: this as well, So thank you for what you been
[24:00] Speaker 2: able to share as a Bondo local but also a
[24:03] Speaker 2: person who is very much connected to the people of
[24:06] Speaker 2: that area. So thank you for your coverage. It'll of
[24:08] Speaker 2: course continue in the next lit a while. Otherwise we'll
[24:10] Speaker 2: see you back at breakfast in twenty twenty six. For
[24:13] Speaker 2: everyone watching us on scot on his regional thank you
[24:15] Speaker 2: DLLA all right now. Also worth mentioning now is that
[24:19] Speaker 2: the hot takes are starting, not just the hot takes
[24:23] Speaker 2: about the Prime minister, but now the lefty hot takes
[24:25] Speaker 2: are starting to push back. Remember when John Howard was
[24:28] Speaker 2: very clear about how he disapproved of how this prime
[24:30] Speaker 2: minister has handled things.
[24:32] Speaker 3: We've got a mean things and the Australian people are
[24:36] Speaker 3: not stupid.
[24:37] Speaker 1: They can work out of phony.
[24:39] Speaker 3: They can work out when they're being treated to weezel words.
[24:43] Speaker 2: Well, the opinion section of the Channel newspapers does not
[24:46] Speaker 2: approve Howard has gone too far in his comments. John
[24:50] Speaker 2: Howard's contribution with his focused criticisms of Albanezi was unbecoming
[24:55] Speaker 2: for a former prime minister. The effect of his intervention
[24:59] Speaker 2: was to give a sense to the coalition to go
[25:01] Speaker 2: full boar at, politicizing Bondai, slagging off the man in
[25:05] Speaker 2: trusted with trying to steer the nation through this powerful,
[25:09] Speaker 2: difficult moment, whether you like him or not, will ultimately
[25:12] Speaker 2: not help Howard's cider politics. It will hurt it. Our
[25:19] Speaker 2: political dialogue apparently has become too vicious. According to an
[25:22] Speaker 2: opinion piece in the age, our world is changing in
[25:27] Speaker 2: many ways. We can't ignore it any longer. The peaceful
[25:29] Speaker 2: world Australia and similar countries have enjoyed for the past
[25:31] Speaker 2: few generations is in danger of giving way to the
[25:33] Speaker 2: new age of savagery. This, of course, is because of language.
[25:39] Speaker 2: In this new age of savagery, we must now change
[25:42] Speaker 2: the way we think. We have to start remembering the
[25:44] Speaker 2: darkness humanity is capable of, and stop being so blase
[25:48] Speaker 2: about the potential murderous consequences of the things we say.
[25:53] Speaker 2: We are entering an era where we are likely to
[25:55] Speaker 2: start thinking historically again. Regarding Pauline Hamm and Barnaby Joyce
[26:01] Speaker 2: attending the vigil in Bondi, this set off someone at
[26:04] Speaker 2: The Guardian at the Bondo visual paul In and Barnaby
[26:07] Speaker 2: turned tragedy and opportunism. It is inexcusable. Having listened to
[26:12] Speaker 2: Hanson's self aggrandizing comments, I was still taken aback to
[26:16] Speaker 2: hear her quip as she moved through the crowd to
[26:18] Speaker 2: leave them memorial. The next time, I might wear an
[26:21] Speaker 2: Israeli flag into the Parliament and see what they do
[26:23] Speaker 2: to turn this tragedy, which goes to what the writer
[26:27] Speaker 2: this person quotes has called the schism in the soul
[26:29] Speaker 2: of our nation into a pantomime as Pauline and Barnaby
[26:36] Speaker 2: want to do. Is inexcusable about Andrew Hasty His response,
[26:40] Speaker 2: particularly via social media. Guess what it's set off The Guardian.
[26:44] Speaker 2: Andrew Hasty revealed conservative liberals true immigration agenda in the
[26:48] Speaker 2: aftermath of the Bondai terror attack. The real question is
[26:51] Speaker 2: who were we letting into our country? Hasty told Andrew Cleeril
[26:55] Speaker 2: here on Sky News, ending in one sentence any pretense
[26:58] Speaker 2: that his grievances may have been purely numerical. That's what
[27:02] Speaker 2: it's always about racism, isn't it When you discuss immigration
[27:06] Speaker 2: and then remember a few weeks ago, I showed you
[27:08] Speaker 2: the work of genius from somebody who was suggesting that
[27:12] Speaker 2: blokes and toxic masculinity, that the Melbourne Cup was worth
[27:15] Speaker 2: having a crack at. Men are losing their social power
[27:20] Speaker 2: and in austrating the Melbourne Cup is becoming one of
[27:22] Speaker 2: the last safe spaces for them. It's one of the
[27:25] Speaker 2: rare days where men are encouraged to put on their chinos,
[27:28] Speaker 2: button ups and R. M. William boots and live their
[27:31] Speaker 2: best male fantasies. Well, the same person has now realized
[27:34] Speaker 2: that blokes are not as bottom of the barrel as
[27:38] Speaker 2: she may well have previously suggested about those in and
[27:40] Speaker 2: around the Melbourne Cup. Not all men incredible detail in
[27:43] Speaker 2: Bondo shooting. If what happened over the weekend made you
[27:47] Speaker 2: more scared of the senseils violence men can be capable of,
[27:50] Speaker 2: can be capable of. I don't blame you what, but
[27:55] Speaker 2: I do think we should take some solace in the
[27:57] Speaker 2: fact that the vast majority of men caught up in
[27:59] Speaker 2: the horrors behaved selflessly and heroically. The way so many
[28:04] Speaker 2: men behave during the horrific event is a testament to
[28:06] Speaker 2: the fact that they are always more good men than bad. Well,
[28:09] Speaker 2: that also applies to the Melbourne Cup mate. I usually
[28:13] Speaker 2: think the phrase not all men is a bit redundant.
[28:15] Speaker 2: It allows most men to assume they are good guys
[28:18] Speaker 2: and stops them from examining their own behavior bullshit. But
[28:22] Speaker 2: there's something significant about seeing all the viral brave acts
[28:25] Speaker 2: by Aussie blokes. And this is one occasion when we
[28:29] Speaker 2: need to be reminded that it isn't all men fed
[28:35] Speaker 2: some of the hot takes. They'll keep coming and they'll
[28:37] Speaker 2: get louder in the next few days while those of
[28:39] Speaker 2: us are not in a position to be on need
[28:40] Speaker 2: to push back. But don't worry. I'll save them all
[28:43] Speaker 2: up and I'll push back from the day. We're back
[28:44] Speaker 2: in the chair in just a couple of weeks. Time
[28:47] Speaker 2: quick break back with more lots to talk about here
[28:49] Speaker 2: on Paul Murray Live. Thank you so much for watching
[28:51] Speaker 2: again live pictures coming to us from BONDI is that
[28:55] Speaker 2: the fifth night of the vigil It continues unbelievably, Can
[28:58] Speaker 2: you believe it? Sunday night, everything that took place, and
[29:00] Speaker 2: by Thursday night Bridge reopen and no sign of what
[29:04] Speaker 2: has taken place. Again, I'm not suggesting that it's intensitive.
[29:07] Speaker 2: It is just a little odd in the timing. Just me.
[29:10] Speaker 2: Can you know what you think want to see big week,
[29:16] Speaker 2: big emotions, big issues, and plenty to talk about it
[29:18] Speaker 2: with two big hearted blokes of course, Roscadelle Center from
[29:21] Speaker 2: New South Wales representing the National Party, and our dear
[29:23] Speaker 2: friend who's probably not getting the advice to the people
[29:27] Speaker 2: that he normally would is none of them, Joe Hildebrand.
[29:30] Speaker 2: Of course, thank you lads for joining us. Joe, I'm
[29:34] Speaker 2: not going to harp on it all not I just
[29:35] Speaker 2: want to get you to take which is how everything's
[29:39] Speaker 2: been reopened, the idea. You know, we've seen natural disasters
[29:43] Speaker 2: where it's only the people from the street who can
[29:45] Speaker 2: go back, and then it's a couple of days. Just
[29:47] Speaker 2: again the haste of this week, and obviously I understand
[29:50] Speaker 2: the funerals are in line with faith. It's pretty extraordinary
[29:54] Speaker 2: that not even full week and across the bridge back
[29:57] Speaker 2: at the picnic tables. If it was my family, I'd
[30:00] Speaker 2: probably be a bit ick about it. But what do
[30:02] Speaker 2: you think, Yeah.
[30:03] Speaker 1: It's a really hard one. I'd like you.
[30:06] Speaker 11: I feel like this has been just an incredibly high
[30:09] Speaker 11: intensity period of time. And because it is Jewish law
[30:13] Speaker 11: that you have to have the funerals and the body
[30:15] Speaker 11: has to go on its way within twenty four hours
[30:19] Speaker 11: of a death, you've had this horrible situation where you've
[30:22] Speaker 11: had this horrible sort of mass casualty, and then you've
[30:26] Speaker 11: had all these people very very quickly mourned, memorialized. It
[30:31] Speaker 11: has moved incredibly quickly, I guess. I mean, I'm writing
[30:36] Speaker 11: this big piece about Bondai and Sydney and it's kind
[30:39] Speaker 11: of nature and how it is such a sort of
[30:42] Speaker 11: joyous place and a sort of democratic place.
[30:44] Speaker 2: If you like the cities within cities, the Behavia.
[30:47] Speaker 11: But it's also said that the beach is the most
[30:48] Speaker 11: democratic place in Australia because you can rock up with
[30:51] Speaker 11: your beer gut hanging out, you can bring your own
[30:54] Speaker 11: snags and chuck them on a barbecue. You know, you
[30:56] Speaker 11: can't know exactly you can't, you know, Unlike European beaches
[31:00] Speaker 11: or whatever. There's no one at the door telling you
[31:01] Speaker 11: you've got to book a sedan chair, and so it
[31:05] Speaker 11: is a place where everyone can come, and it's a
[31:06] Speaker 11: place you only go because you want to go there.
[31:09] Speaker 11: It's a place you only go for pleasure. And that's
[31:11] Speaker 11: different to as much as I love the Harbor Bridge
[31:13] Speaker 11: and the Opera House and by god, I do. But
[31:15] Speaker 11: you know that's the place you drive over a new
[31:18] Speaker 11: morning grind and you pay your toll and get stuck
[31:20] Speaker 11: in grid like and you go to the off function,
[31:22] Speaker 11: or you pay two hundred bucks to put on a
[31:23] Speaker 11: monkey suit and go to you know, I Eat or
[31:26] Speaker 11: whatever Bondai Beach is somewhere you just go because it's
[31:29] Speaker 11: a beautiful day and you're happy to be alive. And
[31:31] Speaker 11: that's what made the attack so ultra, ultra horrific. Well,
[31:36] Speaker 11: it was so visceral that these were families gathering in
[31:38] Speaker 11: the beautiful sunshine, and then you had these people who
[31:41] Speaker 11: just wanted to hate and destroy. And maybe Bondi is
[31:44] Speaker 11: just hurrying to get that back. They just want to
[31:47] Speaker 11: get that back. They want to sort of get that stain.
[31:51] Speaker 11: Maybe stains the wrong word, but lift the cloak.
[31:54] Speaker 1: Of that and sadness.
[31:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, ross again. I don't want to spend all night.
[31:59] Speaker 2: This will be the last time I mention it. But
[32:01] Speaker 2: just your thoughts about it just sort of bloke to
[32:03] Speaker 2: bloke with people who are, no doubt debating this from
[32:06] Speaker 2: one side of the landry and to the other.
[32:07] Speaker 9: Right now, I think Joe's words were great, but I
[32:12] Speaker 9: think it's the bridge where these people were. I'm happy
[32:15] Speaker 9: that's been Go and wipe your feet on it. Go
[32:17] Speaker 9: and spit where these people were, Go and do you
[32:19] Speaker 9: worst point. You know, celebrate that. What I'd like to
[32:22] Speaker 9: see is where the people fell, where the victims were.
[32:26] Speaker 9: Let's celebrate that by putting something there. Let's put some
[32:28] Speaker 9: flower beds, celebrate life, do something colorful, do something there
[32:31] Speaker 9: where these people were.
[32:32] Speaker 7: So they've forgotten, but let's do it in a LifeWay.
[32:34] Speaker 9: Let's do something that brings out that joy, because they
[32:37] Speaker 9: should never be forgotten. The things that we'd lost. A
[32:39] Speaker 9: ten year old girl patting in a petting zoo. My
[32:41] Speaker 9: wife was in tears over that. No connection. It is
[32:44] Speaker 9: just a horrible thing. And we can't just move on
[32:47] Speaker 9: and eraise all points. So, but we can't fill in
[32:49] Speaker 9: the holes in trees with clay and the bullet holes.
[32:52] Speaker 9: We need to memory this in a way that the
[32:54] Speaker 9: families would like. And I go to the bridge and
[32:57] Speaker 9: do you worse.
[32:58] Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, inevitably that that's the case. Once we sort
[33:01] Speaker 2: of get to the six months, three months, twelve months,
[33:04] Speaker 2: that will no doubt be part of the picture. But
[33:07] Speaker 2: between now and then, a great Ozzie summer with people
[33:09] Speaker 2: being able to freely move around Bondo Beach. All right,
[33:12] Speaker 2: let's move off that to a more contestable area. Joe,
[33:14] Speaker 2: Why has Albo screwed this up so badly?
[33:18] Speaker 11: I think the I think obviously, as he himself has admitted,
[33:23] Speaker 11: his response to anti Semitism has not has been has
[33:27] Speaker 11: been as forthright and as strong and as clear as
[33:31] Speaker 11: it could have been, It just was just a little
[33:33] Speaker 11: bit equivocal. And I think Penny Wong didn't help that
[33:36] Speaker 11: by coming out right after October seven and talking about proportionality,
[33:40] Speaker 11: and I think ever since that that sort of cast
[33:43] Speaker 11: the prism through what all future government action would be seen.
[33:46] Speaker 2: So I just I want to ask what I know
[33:48] Speaker 2: as a series of questions that are going to get
[33:50] Speaker 2: what you're about to.
[33:51] Speaker 1: Say, right, go, go, Yeah.
[33:54] Speaker 2: Part of his personality is this digging right idea that
[33:57] Speaker 2: wherever he stands, he digs in and you don't give
[34:00] Speaker 2: the other guy I win and all of that. Is
[34:02] Speaker 2: this where this issue eventually got because there's isi fi
[34:05] Speaker 2: frustrating watching Is that? Is it again? Somebody just watching
[34:09] Speaker 2: every little movement he makes, which is not the average person.
[34:12] Speaker 2: I'm hard marking every one of them. But did this
[34:14] Speaker 2: become one of those things where it's like, mate, they
[34:16] Speaker 2: keep banging on about it at the Sky News prime
[34:18] Speaker 2: time and the Libs are all in on this. I'm
[34:20] Speaker 2: not going near this, bugger and bugger, bug I don't think.
[34:23] Speaker 1: I don't think it's really goad.
[34:24] Speaker 11: I think I think I think Elbow's approach to politics
[34:27] Speaker 11: has always been, you know, you solve all the little
[34:30] Speaker 11: pieces and you fix all the little things at a time,
[34:33] Speaker 11: and hopefully you get to where you want to be
[34:35] Speaker 11: and the big stuff sort of takes care of itself.
[34:37] Speaker 11: And his natural instinct is to always just take the
[34:41] Speaker 11: heat out of any situation, whether it's a blow torch
[34:44] Speaker 11: on him over travel, wroughts or whatever, or whether it's
[34:46] Speaker 11: something really tragic.
[34:47] Speaker 2: And so again will be getting back to that, I'm
[34:49] Speaker 2: sure you will.
[34:50] Speaker 11: But so again, I'm honestly I'm not. I haven't's going
[34:54] Speaker 11: to him, but I get from what I know of him.
[34:56] Speaker 11: So again he puts out this statement, you know, saying, look,
[35:00] Speaker 11: we're aware of what's happening in Bond. I just follow
[35:02] Speaker 11: police director makes it and try to stay safe. And
[35:05] Speaker 11: so he would just say the most sort of banal
[35:07] Speaker 11: and kind of anodyne thing, trying to just sort of
[35:11] Speaker 11: calm things down, take the heat out of it.
[35:13] Speaker 1: You haven't even mentioned anti semitism. You haven't even mentioned that.
[35:17] Speaker 11: Chris Mens, of course, by contrast, immediately instinctively understands that
[35:21] Speaker 11: that is the first thing he needs to acknowledge. And
[35:23] Speaker 11: so I think people are looking for Albow to give
[35:27] Speaker 11: this grand sort of speech that will make everything okay
[35:30] Speaker 11: and sum up the suffering of a nation. And he's
[35:33] Speaker 11: not really that kind of guy.
[35:34] Speaker 2: I think that for a bloke who is as skilled
[35:36] Speaker 2: in the muscle memory of politics, he knows how to
[35:39] Speaker 2: play a natural disaster, this is something different. Yes, but
[35:44] Speaker 2: you know, ext tropical psycho and now for it all day,
[35:46] Speaker 2: every day right this time. It's in and out in
[35:48] Speaker 2: the morning, and a lot of management around things. And Ross.
[35:51] Speaker 2: I think that's what I find frustrating here is this
[35:54] Speaker 2: isn't about the politics, right, the guy's sailing in the polls,
[35:58] Speaker 2: It's not about that. It's just about sometimes there are
[36:01] Speaker 2: people who you know, are singing a song and sometimes
[36:05] Speaker 2: other people are just reading the music.
[36:07] Speaker 9: You get my point, It's because there is nothing behind him,
[36:13] Speaker 9: you know. Let's be honest, let's not be careful and
[36:15] Speaker 9: these are my views, not the views of the party. Necessarily,
[36:17] Speaker 9: the labor left which he comes from, is hates Israel.
[36:20] Speaker 9: They've been slowly not taking steps to shut down his hatred.
[36:25] Speaker 7: But no, no, but hasn't taken steps.
[36:28] Speaker 9: His government and the far left are too blame for
[36:32] Speaker 9: creating this culture of hate that is tolerated in Australia.
[36:35] Speaker 7: And so when you're finally caught.
[36:36] Speaker 9: With your hands in the cookie jar with a horrible response,
[36:39] Speaker 9: and you know they have weaponized people all over Australia.
[36:43] Speaker 9: They weaponized Britney and exploited her for the women vote.
[36:45] Speaker 9: They're doing horrible things for the country of Australia for
[36:48] Speaker 9: the city vote, and they let the Jewish people suffer
[36:50] Speaker 9: for the Muslim vote. When your hands in the cookie jar,
[36:53] Speaker 9: and you know you've got some some skin in the game.
[36:56] Speaker 9: He has no answers because he's got a whole room
[36:58] Speaker 9: full of spin doctors, but no one doing the.
[37:00] Speaker 7: Right policy to keep Australia safe.
[37:02] Speaker 9: And this is why he's not out there saying what
[37:03] Speaker 9: he's doing and what we can do, because he doesn't
[37:06] Speaker 9: know what to do when it gets tough. He's great
[37:08] Speaker 9: with the focus groups, great with the messaging, but where
[37:11] Speaker 9: is the policy that is making Australia safer? Where is
[37:14] Speaker 9: Australia the policy that keeps all of these young people,
[37:18] Speaker 9: you know that stuff, at all these old people, survivors
[37:20] Speaker 9: of the Holocaust alive. It isn't there because he's all
[37:24] Speaker 9: about getting elected and not about building a better Australia.
[37:26] Speaker 9: And he's been found out and this is what's really there.
[37:29] Speaker 9: He doesn't know what to do because he's being caught
[37:32] Speaker 9: short and for the first time, you know, he can't
[37:34] Speaker 9: be blame for a psychone, he can't be blamed for
[37:35] Speaker 9: anything like this, but he's got some skin in the
[37:38] Speaker 9: game on this, and he doesn't know what to do.
[37:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again watching the reaction and again there's
[37:44] Speaker 2: no time machine here, right, but sort of I'm not perfect.
[37:49] Speaker 2: I'm not perfect. Is the most you get out of
[37:51] Speaker 2: him is just the contritions are wrong word, but even
[37:56] Speaker 2: just a little sign of yeah, I didn't nail this
[37:59] Speaker 2: one right. And the stakes are obviously so high, but
[38:02] Speaker 2: also it's this scenario where Joe there is such there's
[38:09] Speaker 2: such high stakes in all of this, So to me,
[38:14] Speaker 2: the sort of wanting to balance everything out or everything's equal. Well,
[38:18] Speaker 2: the truth is that thousands of people were marching, and
[38:20] Speaker 2: where as we know, the day after October seventh, the
[38:23] Speaker 2: purpose was that the opera house was going to get
[38:25] Speaker 2: lit up. You'll also noticed that the opera house was
[38:27] Speaker 2: lit up for one night, not the remainder of Huniker
[38:30] Speaker 2: one night, because the fear, of course is, oh, if
[38:33] Speaker 2: it becomes a beacon and then everyone comes. So again
[38:35] Speaker 2: it's this thing about a full throatedness that all of
[38:39] Speaker 2: those things they announced today, Okay, fine, fair enough, but
[38:42] Speaker 2: two weeks ago, two months ago, instead, none of it happened.
[38:45] Speaker 2: And hence why they have no detailed today. It's got
[38:47] Speaker 2: no work's been done on it.
[38:48] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[38:48] Speaker 11: I think part of the problem is if you don't
[38:50] Speaker 11: have enough sort of historical depth, and you do not
[38:54] Speaker 11: understand the history of anti Semitism throughout Western civilization and
[38:59] Speaker 11: never mind and civilization, then you simply, you simply do
[39:04] Speaker 11: not realize how profoundly you know what might look to
[39:08] Speaker 11: other people as you know, you know, a couple of
[39:11] Speaker 11: cars banged up or a business set on fire to
[39:13] Speaker 11: in the suburbs, if you know what has happened to
[39:16] Speaker 11: Jews in.
[39:16] Speaker 1: The past and way before Nazi Jurneah.
[39:18] Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you think, holy crap, that is
[39:21] Speaker 11: the first warning, which is the canary in the cold.
[39:23] Speaker 1: We must have a lid on this straight away.
[39:25] Speaker 11: And if you are ideologically driven, you think, oh, well,
[39:27] Speaker 11: that's nothing compared to you know, thirty thousand children or whatever,
[39:31] Speaker 11: blah blah blah blah.
[39:32] Speaker 1: And again so you get this ideological.
[39:34] Speaker 11: We're not minimizing that either day. But of course we're
[39:36] Speaker 11: not minimalizing that. But the idea that you know, because
[39:39] Speaker 11: people are dying over here, it's okay to kill people
[39:41] Speaker 11: over there. That is terrorist logic, and that is exactly
[39:44] Speaker 11: what they do. That is what they trade on. They
[39:46] Speaker 11: trade on people who have nothing to do with those
[39:48] Speaker 11: debts except maybe shared their their religion, apart from the
[39:53] Speaker 11: fact that you know, in the same way that you
[39:54] Speaker 11: know isis would kill Americans who had nothing to do
[39:57] Speaker 11: with the war in Iraq because they just didn't like it.
[39:59] Speaker 11: So you have to but look again, in Albow's defense,
[40:03] Speaker 11: he did, he did come out with this policy stuff.
[40:05] Speaker 11: He's had to stay away from the funerals because he
[40:07] Speaker 11: knows that it would be inflammatory and I wouldn't want
[40:09] Speaker 11: heckels and booze it might be offering at least even
[40:13] Speaker 11: if if the hand gets slapped. Yeah, maybe, but I think,
[40:16] Speaker 11: you know, I think the hard left and we have
[40:18] Speaker 11: to remember as well, he is being accused from the left,
[40:21] Speaker 11: from the hard left, of being complicit in genocide.
[40:23] Speaker 2: Well bugger them. These are the same people who are
[40:25] Speaker 2: voting against the exactly labor.
[40:29] Speaker 1: I hate these people some all my heart.
[40:32] Speaker 11: But again he's being accused of being implicit and genocide
[40:35] Speaker 11: by the left, and he's being accused of being complicit
[40:37] Speaker 11: in terror.
[40:38] Speaker 2: But this is also the way he plays which I'm
[40:39] Speaker 2: always the reasonable one in the middle. He just got
[40:41] Speaker 2: this one wrong. That's get the last. Because thank you
[40:45] Speaker 2: very much, Joe, thank you very much, and we'll see
[40:47] Speaker 2: you again next year. Merr Christmas to both of you,
[40:49] Speaker 2: and you have happy Christmas. Back when more. The Libs
[40:51] Speaker 2: have also come forward today saying Parliament should be recalled,
[40:54] Speaker 2: and there's whole bunch of ideas that they won on
[40:56] Speaker 2: the table. One of the key people behind all that
[40:59] Speaker 2: will join a snack. All right, let's talk about the
[41:06] Speaker 2: Liberal parties and coalition's response to all of this. They
[41:09] Speaker 2: want Parliament to be recalled. Opposition leader Susan Lee was
[41:12] Speaker 2: there with a collection of shadow ministers, a whole bunch
[41:15] Speaker 2: of very concrete ideas. We'll get to them in a second,
[41:18] Speaker 2: but here's her showing far more passion than the Prime
[41:21] Speaker 2: Minister has on the urgency of needing to change the
[41:24] Speaker 2: country after the actions of Sunday.
[41:28] Speaker 8: This is not the time for excuses. The Prime Minister
[41:31] Speaker 8: failed to listen and the Prime Minister failed to act,
[41:35] Speaker 8: and we demand that the Parliament is recalled to pass
[41:40] Speaker 8: legislation to eradicate anti Semitism and counter violent extremism. A
[41:46] Speaker 8: show of genuine leadership cannot be delayed any further. The
[41:50] Speaker 8: time for words is finished and the Albanese government must
[41:55] Speaker 8: act decisively to keep Jewish Australians and all Australian safe.
[42:01] Speaker 2: Jonathan Dunham joins us now. Of course, it's the Shadow
[42:04] Speaker 2: Home Affairs, a spokesperson who joins us now from Hobart. Geez,
[42:07] Speaker 2: what a week you've had obviously been in and around
[42:10] Speaker 2: all of this, but also today coming forward with some
[42:12] Speaker 2: concrete stuff. You guys have done some serious policy stuff
[42:15] Speaker 2: and serious thinking in the past week or so. To
[42:18] Speaker 2: be commended, mate, of all of those different ideas, I
[42:21] Speaker 2: want to pluck through a couple of them. One is
[42:24] Speaker 2: that essentially, if there are any groups in Australia that
[42:28] Speaker 2: are involved in anti Semitism which are funded by universities
[42:31] Speaker 2: or government grants, if they are proven to be so,
[42:34] Speaker 2: you're going to yank their funding.
[42:38] Speaker 12: Well, Paul, good to be with you, and yeah, absolutely
[42:40] Speaker 12: we are. I mean, how on earth we can have
[42:42] Speaker 12: a government that thinks it's okay to take that finite resource,
[42:46] Speaker 12: taxpayers money and hand it out to organizations, be they
[42:49] Speaker 12: arts or education institutions that sit idly by and sometimes
[42:54] Speaker 12: even foster anti Semitic activity. I mean the universities that
[42:58] Speaker 12: allowed these encampments and all sorts of activities to take
[43:02] Speaker 12: place on campus, marginalizing Jewish university students, and we caught
[43:07] Speaker 12: up with a heap of them over the last four days.
[43:10] Speaker 12: The fact that they are getting taxpayers money with no consequences,
[43:14] Speaker 12: no penalties whatsoever, allowing this sort of behavior to happen
[43:17] Speaker 12: has to stop. That is the kind of stuff that
[43:19] Speaker 12: needs to happen. It's kind of stuff the Seagull Report
[43:22] Speaker 12: recommended six months ago, and the PM and the government
[43:24] Speaker 12: have sat idly by and done nothing with it. So
[43:28] Speaker 12: that's why we came up with this plan, and that
[43:30] Speaker 12: element is just one of the parts of the plan.
[43:33] Speaker 2: With the government suggesting that they want to go after
[43:35] Speaker 2: hate preachers, I think you guys are a lot stronger
[43:38] Speaker 2: and more detail on how to go after the hate preachers.
[43:41] Speaker 2: Can I just get to the heart of what might
[43:42] Speaker 2: be difficult here, which is if somebody says they are
[43:47] Speaker 2: just taking a literal interpretation of a holy text and
[43:52] Speaker 2: they are reading it, Surely that is going to be
[43:55] Speaker 2: their defense, isn't it, regardless of whether it's well any
[43:59] Speaker 2: form of radical preacher.
[44:03] Speaker 12: Yeah, I think you're right. There are going to be
[44:05] Speaker 12: people that try it on. It's a fight I think
[44:07] Speaker 12: we need to have though. If you're going to have
[44:10] Speaker 12: people standing up in study centers like the Al Medina
[44:14] Speaker 12: Dhawa Center and read a text and claim that it
[44:16] Speaker 12: is just a religious text, but I think you don't
[44:20] Speaker 12: have to go much further to demonstrate the intent behind
[44:23] Speaker 12: the person reading the text is to incite certain behaviors
[44:28] Speaker 12: in others and hatred toward cohorts of people in our community.
[44:32] Speaker 12: I think we just have to be bold about this
[44:34] Speaker 12: and call it out for what it is.
[44:36] Speaker 1: Yes, there will always.
[44:37] Speaker 12: Be a legal defense.
[44:38] Speaker 2: Some people will deploy.
[44:39] Speaker 12: I'm sure we'll see that sadly with the perpetrators of
[44:43] Speaker 12: the acts on Sunday, they will have a defense lawyer
[44:46] Speaker 12: defending their actions. That's how the system works here. But
[44:48] Speaker 12: it doesn't mean we shouldn't have hard laws toughen them
[44:51] Speaker 12: up so that we can actually go after these characters
[44:53] Speaker 12: and straighten out some of the kinks in our society.
[44:56] Speaker 2: There's a particular court case that's playing out in Victoria.
[44:59] Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask you to respond to it.
[45:00] Speaker 2: It's just me explaining to people the way that obviously
[45:03] Speaker 2: the role of the judiciary plays in all of this
[45:06] Speaker 2: is that there was a court case which is playing
[45:07] Speaker 2: out as we speak, where the prosecutors have been told
[45:10] Speaker 2: to show more intent behind somebody using the term all
[45:17] Speaker 2: Zionists terrorists. Those form of words in and of themselves
[45:23] Speaker 2: do not prove what prosecutors are trying. That, again, is
[45:26] Speaker 2: playing out as we speak. I'm asking you to comment
[45:28] Speaker 2: on it. But in a general issue, aren't we in
[45:31] Speaker 2: a difficult scenario here where unless the parameters are absolutely
[45:35] Speaker 2: clear in the legislation, it's obviously open to the interpretation
[45:40] Speaker 2: from the independent branch, that is the judiciary. When you
[45:43] Speaker 2: get to things like meaning and intent.
[45:48] Speaker 12: Yeah, and our friends in the judiciary, of course, do
[45:51] Speaker 12: have a unique way of interpreting things a lot of
[45:53] Speaker 12: the time. I think your viewers would certainly be of.
[45:56] Speaker 2: That view too.
[45:57] Speaker 12: But that's why we want to have a standalone an
[46:00] Speaker 12: act that defines the Airah definition of anti Semitism, so
[46:04] Speaker 12: that we can clearly codify what it is that we
[46:07] Speaker 12: want to stamp out. And when you have that standalone
[46:10] Speaker 12: act and it filters through every bit of Commonwealth legislation
[46:14] Speaker 12: and then hopefully states follow suit and territories too, you
[46:17] Speaker 12: can actually then provide that guide to the judiciary so
[46:22] Speaker 12: they can't deviate too far off the reservation and make
[46:24] Speaker 12: excuses for terrible behavior. And that's how we'll tackle the
[46:28] Speaker 12: funding issue as well with universities and arts institutions as well.
[46:31] Speaker 12: Just got to be clear outline exactly what anti semitism
[46:35] Speaker 12: is and then people know what we're dealing with and
[46:38] Speaker 12: what the threshold is and how to battle it.
[46:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean criticisms of individuals, not governments. All of
[46:43] Speaker 2: that stuff is again part of the debate and discussion
[46:46] Speaker 2: to be had, right, but again in the same way,
[46:48] Speaker 2: we know the difference between the CCP and the people
[46:51] Speaker 2: of the Chinese Republic. We know the same when it
[46:54] Speaker 2: comes to this last one here and again, all of
[46:56] Speaker 2: these are sort of far more complicated issues at times
[46:59] Speaker 2: for my brain about how you get the words right.
[47:01] Speaker 2: But I reckon the reason you're not coming back to
[47:03] Speaker 2: parliament next week is because no work's been done. And
[47:05] Speaker 2: what the government announced today they were I mean, remember
[47:09] Speaker 2: when the Prime Minister first stood up, it was all
[47:11] Speaker 2: about guns. There was no follow up, No we'll get
[47:13] Speaker 2: back to you later in the week, not we've got
[47:14] Speaker 2: a whole bunch of stuff to come. Reality was he's
[47:17] Speaker 2: got to a press conference a day before the beginning
[47:20] Speaker 2: of the week when Australia starts to tune out for
[47:22] Speaker 2: a little while. There's no detail behind any of what
[47:25] Speaker 2: he said today, is there, And that's why you're not
[47:26] Speaker 2: coming back to parliament.
[47:29] Speaker 1: That is exactly right.
[47:30] Speaker 12: They literally have a press release, there's no drafted legislation.
[47:34] Speaker 12: They've not shared any of that with us, And that's
[47:36] Speaker 12: exactly us not why we're coming why we're.
[47:38] Speaker 2: Not coming back to parliament.
[47:39] Speaker 12: But I mean it does indicate how seriously or not
[47:43] Speaker 12: they've taken this issue over the last six months. They've
[47:45] Speaker 12: had the report from Gillian Siegel outlining exactly what they
[47:49] Speaker 12: need to do. What they could have done is then
[47:51] Speaker 12: gone off to the Attorney General's Department or whoever they said,
[47:53] Speaker 12: please draft laws to give effect to this. They clearly
[47:56] Speaker 12: haven't and that is the problem here. So what we
[48:00] Speaker 12: saw today was a bit of window dressing and hopefully
[48:02] Speaker 12: I'll get them through to Christmas and then they can
[48:04] Speaker 12: breathe a sigh of relief and hope the world's forgotten
[48:06] Speaker 12: about it. But I'll tell you what, Paul, we will
[48:08] Speaker 12: not be letting people forget about this. I doubt the
[48:10] Speaker 12: people of BONDI I doubt the Jewish community. I doubt
[48:13] Speaker 12: you guys are going to let Australia forget about this.
[48:15] Speaker 12: When we go back to Parliament whenever they're ready.
[48:18] Speaker 2: I will be.
[48:18] Speaker 12: Pursuing this issue on into the future for the people
[48:21] Speaker 12: that have been so badly let down by this government
[48:23] Speaker 12: on this issue.
[48:23] Speaker 2: One hundred percent. There'll be plenty of think pieces between
[48:26] Speaker 2: now and then that to do so somehow will be nefarious. No,
[48:30] Speaker 2: it's because it is the obvious consequence to what's taking place.
[48:34] Speaker 2: Just a few days ago. Thank you made really appreciated
[48:36] Speaker 2: it all the best to you and your family for Christmas.
[48:38] Speaker 2: Thank you, Jonathan. All Right, quick break back with more here,
[48:41] Speaker 2: our last bit of Paul Murray Life for twenty and
[48:43] Speaker 2: twenty five and then the late debate five minutes away.
[48:51] Speaker 2: All right, Before I'm done for the year, I just
[48:53] Speaker 2: want to say thank you to the people who make
[48:55] Speaker 2: this show possible. To Lucy and sas they are my
[48:59] Speaker 2: right hand, better half of my brain. Our production team.
[49:03] Speaker 2: Thank you so much. To Tim who's on the ones
[49:04] Speaker 2: and twos, and all the technical people it means a
[49:07] Speaker 2: world to me. To everyone who helps put the Our
[49:09] Speaker 2: Town shows together, to my bosses, to Mark and Paul,
[49:12] Speaker 2: thank you for all the endless support. Of course, we
[49:14] Speaker 2: had a fifteen year anniversary celebration, which means I had
[49:18] Speaker 2: a chance to thank family and friends there, But as always,
[49:21] Speaker 2: and most importantly, thank you for the loyalty that you
[49:24] Speaker 2: show to me. Without you, none of this is possible
[49:27] Speaker 2: and I get to live my dream, which happens even
[49:29] Speaker 2: bigger and even better next year. Have a wonderful break.
[49:32] Speaker 2: We'll see you in a couple of weeks. Hudd

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