# Paul Murray Live | 11 October

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 11 Oct 2026, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/0928eb88-b468-4d94-b6d0-b4e000befdc2/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Despite prices going down it's actually getting harder to buy a home, the minister for freebies can't escape the travel expenses saga. Plus, Prince Harry is booed at a rugby match. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you, James. Welcome to
[0:09] Speaker 1: the show here on a Sunday night. It's always good
[0:11] Speaker 1: to have your company. Here's what's coming up. I thought
[0:14] Speaker 1: it had never been a better time to be a
[0:16] Speaker 1: first home buyer, but despite prices going down, it's actually
[0:20] Speaker 1: getting harder to buy a home. I'll tell you more
[0:22] Speaker 1: about that soon. Lee Hanson and Christian Abram will be
[0:25] Speaker 1: in for the panel. Plenty to get through for the
[0:27] Speaker 1: week ahead. And Mark Dolan will be live from the
[0:30] Speaker 1: UK with all the latest news over there, including Prince
[0:33] Speaker 1: Harry being booed at a rugby match. And just a reminder,
[0:37] Speaker 1: the next Paul Murray Live Our Town is in Carartha
[0:41] Speaker 1: in Western Australia on Sunday, the 25th of October. So
[0:44] Speaker 1: if you want tickets to be in the audience, email
[0:47] Speaker 1: your first and last name to ourtownatnews24. com. au. That's on the
[0:52] Speaker 1: screen there, ourtownatnews24. com. au. Paul would love to see you in Carartha. Now,
[0:59] Speaker 1: Annika Wells, the Communications Minister, as we know, she likes
[1:03] Speaker 1: a taxpayer-funded business. flight. She's been in a bit of
[1:06] Speaker 1: trouble about that over the past year or so. So,
[1:10] Speaker 1: air miles Annika, as she is. And you'll recall that
[1:13] Speaker 1: she had to repay more than $ 10, 000 for expenses that
[1:17] Speaker 1: she shouldn't have claimed, including taking her husband to the
[1:20] Speaker 1: AFL grand final. And one of the trips that was
[1:23] Speaker 1: questioned was to Adelaide last year to go to the
[1:26] Speaker 1: birthday party of the wife of the South Australian health
[1:30] Speaker 1: minister at the time, Chris Picton. She claimed nearly $ 4, 000
[1:35] Speaker 1: for airfares for that trip on the basis that she
[1:38] Speaker 1: had a quote-unquote sideline meeting with Mr Picton at the
[1:42] Speaker 1: party that she said was at 7.45pm, which meant it
[1:46] Speaker 1: was too late for her to fly home.
[1:48] Speaker 2: Were you conceived that you planned this trip knowing it
[1:53] Speaker 2: was your friend's 40th birthday party?
[1:57] Speaker 1: No, this is a work trip.
[2:00] Speaker 3: I met with my South Australian counterpart in part about SASI,
[2:03] Speaker 3: the South Australian Sport Institute, where we just opened a
[2:06] Speaker 3: parry unit. Part of my work as sports minister is
[2:09] Speaker 3: going to all.
[2:09] Speaker 1: Yes, Andrew.
[2:10] Speaker 2: Annika Wells, this looks like a scenario where you want
[2:13] Speaker 2: to attend your friend's birthday, so you put a couple
[2:16] Speaker 2: of official engagements around it. You wouldn't be Robin Caruso
[2:19] Speaker 2: in the world of politics to have done that, by
[2:21] Speaker 2: the way. But I put that to you now.
[2:27] Speaker 3: I had four official engagements. I visited the local new
[2:30] Speaker 3: federal member for Sturt.
[2:34] Speaker 1: Now, I must say, it's terribly convenient when there's a
[2:37] Speaker 1: birthday bash to go to and the husband of the
[2:39] Speaker 1: person whose birthday you're going to happens to be the
[2:41] Speaker 1: Health Minister of South Australia. And so you can have
[2:44] Speaker 1: a meeting because, of course, if you're having a meeting,
[2:47] Speaker 1: then it's official ministerial business. And that means you can say, well,
[2:51] Speaker 1: the taxpayer has to pay for my flights and accommodation
[2:53] Speaker 1: because I was there doing work. And, of course... That's
[2:57] Speaker 1: exactly what she said, as you saw there, and a
[3:00] Speaker 1: spokesperson for Mr Picton has backed up this account of events.
[3:04] Speaker 1: But the Sunday Telegraph has managed to get its hands
[3:06] Speaker 1: on Mr Picton's diary. It was obtained by the Coalition
[3:10] Speaker 1: under Freedom of Information laws. And nowhere in Mr Picton's
[3:14] Speaker 1: diary does it say that he had a meeting with
[3:17] Speaker 1: Annika Wells on June 7 last year, which was the
[3:21] Speaker 1: date of the birthday bash. Mr Picton's diary is blocked
[3:24] Speaker 1: out from 5pm for personal affairs. Nowhere is there a
[3:29] Speaker 1: mention of a meeting with Annika Wells. Now, you'd think
[3:32] Speaker 1: if you were having an official meeting that it would
[3:35] Speaker 1: be put in your ministerial diary, would at least be
[3:39] Speaker 1: noted down somewhere. I mean, these are very busy people.
[3:43] Speaker 1: They've got a lot of stuff to do, a lot
[3:44] Speaker 1: of people to meet. They don't just waste their time willy-nilly.
[3:48] Speaker 1: I would have thought that if Annika Wells wanted to
[3:51] Speaker 1: meet with the Health Minister of South Australia that she
[3:54] Speaker 1: would have made a phone call, made an appointment. be
[3:56] Speaker 1: written down in the diary. Minister probably requires some sort
[4:00] Speaker 1: of reminder or record of what he needs to do.
[4:03] Speaker 1: This is from the Sunday Telegraph. Ms Wells travelled from
[4:06] Speaker 1: Brisbane to Adelaide on Friday, June 6, and returned on Sunday,
[4:10] Speaker 1: June 8, last year for a visit to a school
[4:13] Speaker 1: and a meeting with Trade Minister Don Farrell. On Saturday,
[4:16] Speaker 1: June 7, she said she had a meeting scheduled with
[4:19] Speaker 1: Mr Picton before the birthday party for his wife, her friend,
[4:23] Speaker 1: Connie Bleferi. In the explanation to the IPEA, that's the
[4:27] Speaker 1: parliamentary mob that looks after this stuff, Ms Wells claimed
[4:31] Speaker 1: this scheduled meeting was delayed after the meeting with Mr
[4:34] Speaker 1: Farrell overran. However, excerpts from Mr Picton's diary obtained under
[4:39] Speaker 1: FOI do not show any meeting with Ms Wells. An
[4:43] Speaker 1: entry for a meeting at 3pm is marked personal and
[4:46] Speaker 1: as a result the information is blocked out. The diary
[4:49] Speaker 1: excerpts show Mr Picton's only official engagement was a media
[4:53] Speaker 1: event on ambulance ramping at the new Women's and Children's
[4:56] Speaker 1: Hospital in the middle of the day. Now, that doesn't
[5:00] Speaker 1: necessarily mean that they didn't have an official meeting. And,
[5:04] Speaker 1: of course, Ms Wells stands by her version of events.
[5:07] Speaker 1: But you have to say it's rather interesting that it
[5:10] Speaker 1: doesn't appear in the diary. And it's rather convenient that
[5:13] Speaker 1: you would be able to have a meeting with a
[5:15] Speaker 1: minister at the birthday party of your friend. And this
[5:19] Speaker 1: is a large part of the problem. It just doesn't
[5:22] Speaker 1: look good. Maybe it is technically legitimate, but it just
[5:26] Speaker 1: looks dodgy. It just shows a fundamental lack of respect
[5:31] Speaker 1: for the people who are picking up the tab, which
[5:33] Speaker 1: is you and me, the taxpayer. I mean, you show
[5:36] Speaker 1: a fundamental disrespect for the electorate, for the people of Australia.
[5:41] Speaker 1: I know it's easy to get carried away and do
[5:44] Speaker 1: things that you otherwise wouldn't do when someone else is
[5:47] Speaker 1: paying the bill because you don't have to think about
[5:49] Speaker 1: the state of your finances or your bank account. But
[5:52] Speaker 1: the question should really be, Would I be upset if
[5:56] Speaker 1: I gave someone my credit card and they did this,
[5:59] Speaker 1: you know? Am I kind of taking the piss here?
[6:02] Speaker 1: And if the answer is yes, then don't do it.
[6:06] Speaker 1: But it's the sense of entitlement among some politicians that
[6:10] Speaker 1: they just think it doesn't matter. They have very little
[6:13] Speaker 1: regard for the electorate. I mean, you sometimes get the
[6:17] Speaker 1: impression that they'd prefer we didn't exist because it would
[6:21] Speaker 1: make their job a hell of a lot easier. But
[6:23] Speaker 1: without us, they don't get the money. So it's a
[6:26] Speaker 1: bit of a problem. I mean, how hard is it
[6:29] Speaker 1: just to do the right thing? And when I say
[6:32] Speaker 1: do the right thing, I don't just mean do what's
[6:34] Speaker 1: within the rules. I mean, do what is morally the
[6:39] Speaker 1: right thing to do. It's the same as all the
[6:41] Speaker 1: other polys who got caught out using the family reunion
[6:45] Speaker 1: travel to fly partners and children and whatever around the
[6:48] Speaker 1: place in circumstances where they probably really should have been
[6:51] Speaker 1: paying out of their own pocket. You know, it might
[6:55] Speaker 1: have been within the rules, but it's not within the
[6:57] Speaker 1: spirit of the thing. It's kind of taking the mickey.
[7:00] Speaker 1: I mean, Sarah Hansen-Young, for instance, spent nearly $ 50, 000 of
[7:05] Speaker 1: our money on 78 family reunion flights between Adelaide and
[7:09] Speaker 1: Canberra for her husband who works as a lobbyist. I mean,
[7:14] Speaker 1: it might be well within the rules, but it's just
[7:17] Speaker 1: plainly wrong. You're a politician. You earn well above the
[7:21] Speaker 1: average wage. Your husband is a lobbyist who would also
[7:24] Speaker 1: be earning well above the average wage. You could have
[7:28] Speaker 1: afforded to buy the flights and pay for them yourself.
[7:31] Speaker 1: But you chose to charge the taxpayer because you could.
[7:36] Speaker 1: That's the problem here. It's the same problem that Annika
[7:39] Speaker 1: Wells has with the birthday party. You know, it's... Very
[7:43] Speaker 1: convenient that at the same time as she has to
[7:45] Speaker 1: be in Adelaide for official meetings, there's a birthday party
[7:48] Speaker 1: for a friend of hers and she has a meeting
[7:51] Speaker 1: at that birthday party. And because the meeting finished at 7.45pm,
[7:55] Speaker 1: she couldn't possibly get a flight back to Brisbane. So, oh, no,
[7:59] Speaker 1: she had to stay at her friend's birthday party, which
[8:02] Speaker 1: means she had to spend another night in Adelaide and
[8:04] Speaker 1: she had to charge the taxpayer for it. I mean,
[8:07] Speaker 1: that should be the point where in your head you go...
[8:11] Speaker 1: I'll pay for the accommodation tonight or I'll contribute some
[8:15] Speaker 1: money to the cost of the airfare as well, because
[8:17] Speaker 1: I wasn't just here on business. I was also here
[8:20] Speaker 1: for personal reasons. That's the right thing to do. That's
[8:25] Speaker 1: what would show respect for you and me, the people
[8:28] Speaker 1: who ultimately paid the bill. But we're told that because
[8:32] Speaker 1: it's within the rules, nothing wrong has happened. Well, the
[8:36] Speaker 1: question isn't really about the rules. It's about what's the
[8:39] Speaker 1: right thing to do personally. And on that count, Annika
[8:43] Speaker 1: Wells has clearly failed. Whether or not she sees that,
[8:48] Speaker 1: who knows? Now, remember that campaign? It won't be easy
[8:53] Speaker 1: under Albanese. If only we'd heeded the warning, eh? Now,
[8:57] Speaker 1: I thought housing was meant to be getting more affordable.
[9:00] Speaker 1: I mean, that's why Jim Chalmers made all those changes
[9:03] Speaker 1: to taxes around housing, right? Well, that's allegedly what it's
[9:15] Speaker 1: all about. I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do
[9:18] Speaker 1: with wanting to make more money out of tax because
[9:20] Speaker 1: you have budget black holes and you need to fill
[9:22] Speaker 1: them because government spending is too high. Not that at all.
[9:27] Speaker 1: But house prices have, of course, been coming down, which
[9:30] Speaker 1: isn't good news for someone who's, you know, got most
[9:33] Speaker 1: of their money tied up in their home. It's not
[9:35] Speaker 1: good news for recent first homebuyers. but watching their investment
[9:39] Speaker 1: currently go backwards and potentially falling into negative equity. But
[9:43] Speaker 1: the thing is that it's not actually making housing more affordable.
[9:47] Speaker 1: Houses are still getting more unaffordable, despite the fact that
[9:51] Speaker 1: the prices are coming down because the interest rates keep
[9:54] Speaker 1: going up. New data from Canstar shows that to buy
[9:58] Speaker 1: a median-priced property in Sydney, a house that is, you
[10:02] Speaker 1: need an income of $ 245, 000 a year to not fall
[10:08] Speaker 1: into mortgage stress. Now, that's obviously combined income. So if
[10:12] Speaker 1: you're a couple, you need 245 grand a year total
[10:13] Speaker 1: to in order to live comfortably in a median-priced home.
[10:19] Speaker 1: If you're single, you've basically got no hope. Now, that's
[10:23] Speaker 1: up $ 11, 000 from what it was last year. It's actually
[10:27] Speaker 1: getting even worse in Brisbane. You need $ 185, 000 to buy
[10:32] Speaker 1: a median-priced property there, which is, of course, a bit
[10:35] Speaker 1: better than Sydney. But that's an increase of $ 30, 000, just
[10:39] Speaker 1: over 30 grand on what you needed last year. Because,
[10:43] Speaker 1: of course, every time the interest rates go up, your
[10:46] Speaker 1: buying power reduces. You need to put aside more of
[10:49] Speaker 1: your income in order to be able to pay to
[10:52] Speaker 1: put a roof over your head. And yet we have
[10:55] Speaker 1: the Treasurer here expecting us to be grateful for what
[11:00] Speaker 1: he's doing to allegedly make housing more affordable and get
[11:03] Speaker 1: you into a home, your first home. But the reality
[11:06] Speaker 1: is it's actually just getting harder. But don't worry, Tanya
[11:10] Speaker 1: Plibersek thinks things are great.
[11:13] Speaker 4: There's never been a better time to be a first
[11:15] Speaker 4: home buyer.
[11:16] Speaker 3: Not in my lifetime has there been a better time
[11:19] Speaker 3: to be a first home buyer in Australia.
[11:23] Speaker 5: Seriously.
[11:25] Speaker 1: I mean, every time she or the Prime Minister or
[11:28] Speaker 1: the Treasurer opens their mouths to talk about the cost
[11:31] Speaker 1: of living, they are talking absolute bull. I mean, they're
[11:36] Speaker 1: actively making the cost of living worse and expecting us
[11:41] Speaker 1: to be grateful for it. I mean, whatever happened to
[11:44] Speaker 1: that saying, intergenerational equity? In the lead up to the
[11:48] Speaker 1: federal budget, we heard constantly from the Prime Minister and
[11:52] Speaker 1: the Treasurer about intergenerational equity.
[11:56] Speaker 6: Intergenerational equity. Intergenerational fairness. Intergenerational equity.
[12:00] Speaker 7: Intergenerational equity.
[12:03] Speaker 1: And that was the basis upon which they made all
[12:06] Speaker 1: these tax changes. Because basically what they were saying was
[12:09] Speaker 1: that baby boomers have had it too good for too long.
[12:13] Speaker 1: And young people are being locked out of the housing market,
[12:15] Speaker 1: and so we have to do something to shake things
[12:17] Speaker 1: up and move around the capital so young people can
[12:20] Speaker 1: get into property. And sure, it's a noble goal. We
[12:24] Speaker 1: do clearly have a housing affordability problem in this country,
[12:27] Speaker 1: and we have done for a long time. And so
[12:31] Speaker 1: doing things that might be able to help young people
[12:33] Speaker 1: get into the market is good. Of course it's good.
[12:36] Speaker 1: But this hasn't worked. It's getting harder. to be a
[12:40] Speaker 1: first home buyer, not easier. And somehow this intergenerational equity
[12:45] Speaker 1: line has just completely disappeared. The government seems to have
[12:50] Speaker 1: forgotten about it. Well, let's talk about intergenerational equity. Because,
[12:54] Speaker 1: of course, a large part of the reason that interest
[12:57] Speaker 1: rates are going up, which is making housing more unaffordable,
[13:00] Speaker 1: is that inflation is too high. And a lot of
[13:03] Speaker 1: that comes down to government spending. The government is spending
[13:06] Speaker 1: too much money. Now, of course, a lot of that
[13:09] Speaker 1: money comes from you and me. They tax us to
[13:12] Speaker 1: high heaven, which is what these property taxes are actually
[13:15] Speaker 1: all about, and winding back negative gearing. It's really about
[13:18] Speaker 1: making more money for the government. But yes, they get
[13:21] Speaker 1: money from us, but they also borrow a lot of money.
[13:25] Speaker 1: And who will end up paying that money back? Well,
[13:28] Speaker 1: I can tell you it won't be the people who
[13:29] Speaker 1: are borrowing it today. It has to be paid back
[13:32] Speaker 1: at some point. At the very least, you have to
[13:34] Speaker 1: keep servicing the loans and And that money will come
[13:37] Speaker 1: out of the pockets of the next generations. The government
[13:41] Speaker 1: spending today and saying it can deal with the problem tomorrow. Actually,
[13:46] Speaker 1: not really tomorrow, much further down the line into the future.
[13:50] Speaker 1: But they're whacking the cost on the credit card and
[13:52] Speaker 1: spending too much money, which is driving up inflation, which
[13:55] Speaker 1: has been driving up interest rates. And it makes it
[13:58] Speaker 1: harder for young people to buy their first home. And
[14:01] Speaker 1: then what they're going to do is they're going to
[14:03] Speaker 1: hand that credit card or the bill from the credit
[14:06] Speaker 1: card to the same young people and say, now you've
[14:09] Speaker 1: got to go and pay it off for us. Now
[14:11] Speaker 1: is that for intergenerational equity? The actions of the government
[14:15] Speaker 1: today are making it actively more difficult for young people
[14:20] Speaker 1: to enter the housing market. And they are the people
[14:23] Speaker 1: who will then be expected to pay for the consequences,
[14:26] Speaker 1: literally pay for the consequences. This is what the Albanese
[14:30] Speaker 1: government is doing to young people. That is the intergenerational
[14:35] Speaker 1: equity that we should really be talking about. I mean,
[14:38] Speaker 1: we now have more than a trillion dollars of debt.
[14:42] Speaker 1: One trillion dollars. And to think that John Howard and
[14:46] Speaker 1: Peter Costello got it nearly down to zero. And then
[14:50] Speaker 1: we have one trillion dollars in debt. And it's the
[14:54] Speaker 1: kids who have to pay it off. So they get
[14:57] Speaker 1: screwed twice by the government. Whenever you think of intergenerational equity,
[15:02] Speaker 1: I should say, that is what you should think about.
[15:05] Speaker 1: What are we leaving to the taxpayers of tomorrow? At
[15:09] Speaker 1: the moment, we're leaving a hell of a lot of
[15:11] Speaker 1: government spending and high levels of debt. And all of
[15:14] Speaker 1: that is actively keeping young people out of the housing market.
[15:19] Speaker 1: And of course, one of the things that the Albanese
[15:22] Speaker 1: government wants to do to recoup a bit of cash
[15:25] Speaker 1: is sell off defence assets. I'm sure you would have
[15:27] Speaker 1: heard about Victoria Barracks in Sydney, the historic Victoria Barracks
[15:31] Speaker 1: that the federal government wants to sell off. There's been
[15:34] Speaker 1: a lot of opposition to that. And there was a
[15:36] Speaker 1: demonstration today at Balmoral Beach in Sydney against the sale
[15:40] Speaker 1: of HMAS Penguin, which is a Navy base nearby Middlehead.
[15:45] Speaker 1: More than 1,000 people turned out for this. And one
[15:48] Speaker 1: of the people who spoke at the rally today was
[15:50] Speaker 1: Peter Garrett. Of course, he is a former Labor minister.
[15:54] Speaker 1: And he's not the only Labor person who's been speaking
[15:57] Speaker 1: out about this. Former Prime Minister Paul Keating is one
[16:00] Speaker 1: of them. The New South Wales Premier Chris Minns has
[16:02] Speaker 1: been quite strident. in his criticism of the potential sale
[16:06] Speaker 1: of Victoria Barracks, and he's trying to fight against that.
[16:09] Speaker 1: But Mr Garrett basically nailed exactly what's going on with
[16:12] Speaker 1: this whole thing at this rally today. He said the
[16:15] Speaker 1: opposition to the sell-off should be bipartisan, which it should,
[16:19] Speaker 1: and he stated really the bleeding obvious, which is that
[16:22] Speaker 1: the government is just doing this, and I mean selling
[16:25] Speaker 1: off defence assets, which are obviously the last things we
[16:28] Speaker 1: should be flogging, to make a quick buck. He said...
[16:32] Speaker 1: They should be accepting that a plan to flog off
[16:34] Speaker 1: public land to buttress a defence budget is very, very
[16:38] Speaker 1: poor politics. It smacks of laziness, of process, it lacks
[16:42] Speaker 1: proper funding preparation and it shows a contempt for the
[16:46] Speaker 1: voting public and an amazing lack of awareness of the
[16:49] Speaker 1: qualities of the lands that are to be sacrificed for
[16:53] Speaker 1: temporary budget relief. And he said that it was not
[16:56] Speaker 1: up to a group of defence bureaucrats and cost cutters
[16:59] Speaker 1: to to come up with a plan to rein in
[17:01] Speaker 1: the defence expenditure of that department that historically, traditionally and
[17:05] Speaker 1: constantly exceeds its budgets on every single item of procurement
[17:10] Speaker 1: that has ever been undertaken. And it is almost bipartisan.
[17:14] Speaker 1: I mean, this demonstration today, of course, as I just said,
[17:18] Speaker 1: had Peter Garrett, David Shoebridge, the Greens leader, was there.
[17:22] Speaker 1: Liberal Senator Jess Collins was there. And as I mentioned before,
[17:26] Speaker 1: there is opposition from inside Labor. particularly the New South
[17:29] Speaker 1: Wales Labor Party. So almost everyone, except the federal government,
[17:34] Speaker 1: thinks it's a stupid idea to sell off defence assets
[17:37] Speaker 1: to raise a few billion dollars. I mean, it beggars
[17:41] Speaker 1: belief that before you even get the historical aspect of
[17:46] Speaker 1: all of this, which I'll come back to, it beggars
[17:48] Speaker 1: belief that at this time in Australia's history, a government
[17:53] Speaker 1: would seek to get rid of military bases. I mean,
[17:56] Speaker 1: you look at what's happening around the world, geopolitically, Things
[17:59] Speaker 1: are more unstable than they've been in quite some time.
[18:02] Speaker 1: We have a rising China that we know is a
[18:04] Speaker 1: threat to us. Conflict with China we could be drawn into.
[18:09] Speaker 1: Very real possibility, particularly if they decide to invade Taiwan.
[18:13] Speaker 1: And so why right now would you be doing anything
[18:18] Speaker 1: to do away with defence bases that are there to
[18:21] Speaker 1: help protect Australians? I mean, it's just insane. We need
[18:25] Speaker 1: everything we can get our hands on. in terms of
[18:28] Speaker 1: defence right now. We need to be spending more money
[18:30] Speaker 1: on defence. Of course, Donald Trump has been trying to
[18:33] Speaker 1: push for that for some time. We need to be
[18:35] Speaker 1: more self-reliant. And so throwing away defence bases right now
[18:40] Speaker 1: to make a quick buck is about the dumbest thing
[18:43] Speaker 1: you could do. But this is what happens when you
[18:46] Speaker 1: have a government that spends too much money and can't
[18:49] Speaker 1: seem to slow down that spending. And of course, it
[18:52] Speaker 1: knows that it can only tax people so much before
[18:54] Speaker 1: they revolt. And so now they're desperately trying to do
[18:57] Speaker 1: anything they can to pull some money back. But they're
[19:00] Speaker 1: choosing absolutely the wrong places to do it. I mean,
[19:05] Speaker 1: you'd think they'd be talking about disused places. Well, they're not.
[19:08] Speaker 1: Victoria Barracks in Sydney is still in use. There are
[19:11] Speaker 1: people there. Soldiers are being evicted for an operating army base,
[19:16] Speaker 1: from an operating army base, I should say, by Christmas
[19:20] Speaker 1: because the government wants to sell it. You can't tell
[19:23] Speaker 1: me that that makes sense in any way. And of course,
[19:26] Speaker 1: there's the historical aspect as well. This is our military history,
[19:31] Speaker 1: symbols of our nation and the strength of our nation.
[19:34] Speaker 1: They are ornaments to the people who have served and
[19:36] Speaker 1: the people who still serve this nation, to the people
[19:39] Speaker 1: who have died in the process of serving this nation.
[19:43] Speaker 1: They're not just buildings or pieces of land. On one hand,
[19:47] Speaker 1: they're strategic assets that we ought to keep because they
[19:51] Speaker 1: are useful to us. But on the other hand, they're
[19:54] Speaker 1: also of great cultural and historical value. It doesn't mean
[19:58] Speaker 1: that Victoria Barracks will be razed if it was sold,
[20:01] Speaker 1: but the point is that these are public lands that
[20:04] Speaker 1: have served us well and ought to remain in public hands.
[20:08] Speaker 1: You know, I know a lot of things have been
[20:10] Speaker 1: privatised and sold off and whatever over the years, primarily
[20:13] Speaker 1: because governments wanted the cash. But the only problem with
[20:16] Speaker 1: using that as a strategy in this situation is that
[20:20] Speaker 1: there are only so many assets you can sell. If
[20:23] Speaker 1: you keep privatising and selling everything, well, eventually you'll have
[20:28] Speaker 1: nothing left to privatise or sell. And what's the strategy then?
[20:32] Speaker 1: Once there's nothing left to flog off, how do you
[20:35] Speaker 1: make money? I guess the answer is that they just
[20:38] Speaker 1: take it from us or they just go and borrow
[20:40] Speaker 1: more money, put it on the credit card. I hope
[20:42] Speaker 1: we can all just come back to it later. But
[20:44] Speaker 1: this is really indicative of the short-sighted nature of this
[20:48] Speaker 1: government spending. They know they have budget problems. That's why
[20:52] Speaker 1: they were to sell off these assets. That's why they
[20:54] Speaker 1: had to wind back negative gearing. That's why they had
[20:57] Speaker 1: to tax family trusts. That's why they had to change
[21:00] Speaker 1: capital gains tax. None of it is about intergenerational equity,
[21:04] Speaker 1: as I mentioned before. It's all about the fact that
[21:07] Speaker 1: the government is spending too much money and they don't
[21:09] Speaker 1: have enough of it. So they better get some more
[21:12] Speaker 1: somewhere else. And to go back to that intergenerational equity point,
[21:16] Speaker 1: once this government's flogged off all the assets, what's the
[21:20] Speaker 1: next generation going to do next time? The issue isn't
[21:24] Speaker 1: that the government doesn't have enough money. It's that it's
[21:27] Speaker 1: spending too much money. If it stopped spending so much money,
[21:32] Speaker 1: it wouldn't have to go looking for more. And maybe
[21:34] Speaker 1: inflation would cool down a bit and interest rates would
[21:37] Speaker 1: stop going up, which funnily enough would be a good
[21:40] Speaker 1: thing for the government. Now, Paul often does a segment
[21:45] Speaker 1: on this program while you were at work and he
[21:49] Speaker 1: shows you some of the stupid things that politicians are
[21:52] Speaker 1: putting on social media. And I thought after the Prime
[21:57] Speaker 1: Minister went on the Bush Barbie podcast, Bush Deep it's called,
[22:02] Speaker 1: as if he didn't know things were going to go awry,
[22:05] Speaker 1: that he might swear off the social media for a
[22:08] Speaker 1: little bit. Certainly swear off making jokes on social media
[22:12] Speaker 1: for a little bit, because that didn't work too well
[22:14] Speaker 1: for him. And there's a lot of stuff going on
[22:16] Speaker 1: at the moment. I mean, it's been a pretty horrible week,
[22:20] Speaker 1: I think, for the government overall. The cost of living
[22:23] Speaker 1: is well and truly back on the agenda. Seems to
[22:26] Speaker 1: be biting a bit. We had multiple polls last week
[22:30] Speaker 1: showing that people are holding the federal government responsible for
[22:34] Speaker 1: high inflation and therefore interest rates going up. Not as
[22:37] Speaker 1: they say, what's going on overseas. I would have thought
[22:40] Speaker 1: the Prime Minister's got a fair bit on his mind
[22:42] Speaker 1: at the moment. Some real issues that he needs to
[22:46] Speaker 1: be working on, thinking about whether or not he gets
[22:48] Speaker 1: rid of his treasurer. What's he going to do about
[22:51] Speaker 1: the economy? People are angry. But no, the Prime Minister...
[22:56] Speaker 1: has found time to go and do comedy sketches. Take
[22:59] Speaker 1: a look at this.
[23:01] Speaker 6: Are you nervous? Nah, I'm pretty good with parents. What
[23:04] Speaker 6: did you say he does again? Uh, he's his own boss. Right,
[23:07] Speaker 6: like what I'm going to be with my crypto course. Hello, darling.
[23:13] Speaker 3: Dad!
[23:15] Speaker 6: And who's this? Dad, this is my boyfriend, James. Well,
[23:18] Speaker 6: nice to meet you, mate. You are meeting me?
[23:23] Speaker 7: Bear in mind, I'm very protective of my daughter. And
[23:27] Speaker 7: if you break her heart, I can reinstate your hex debt.
[23:33] Speaker 6: So good to see you. So good to see you too.
[23:39] Speaker 6: Brought to you by the Australian Government Swag.
[23:44] Speaker 1: That's what the mob called swag on the beat. Now,
[23:47] Speaker 1: I have to admit, it is actually kind of funny.
[23:50] Speaker 1: But Of all the things the Prime Minister has to
[23:53] Speaker 1: do at the moment and to worry about, he's going
[23:57] Speaker 1: around doing social media skits like that. And I'm not
[24:01] Speaker 1: trying to say that politicians have to be 100% serious
[24:04] Speaker 1: all the time. And I'm not trying to say that
[24:07] Speaker 1: the Prime Minister shouldn't be able to have fun as
[24:10] Speaker 1: well as do his job. I mean, God, everyone needs
[24:13] Speaker 1: a break every now and again. But I would have
[24:16] Speaker 1: thought of all the priorities for the Prime Minister at
[24:18] Speaker 1: the moment... That would be pretty low on the list.
[24:22] Speaker 1: But he's gone out and he's done that. I don't
[24:24] Speaker 1: know whether he thinks it works for him. Maybe he thinks, well,
[24:28] Speaker 1: it puts him in front of young people who are
[24:31] Speaker 1: following this stuff on social media. I don't know. I
[24:34] Speaker 1: don't know what the strategy is. But I have to say,
[24:38] Speaker 1: after a week where interest rates went up, people are hurting.
[24:43] Speaker 1: As I said earlier, housing is only getting more unaffordable.
[24:47] Speaker 1: despite the fact that they're trying to tell us things
[24:49] Speaker 1: are getting better. I don't know. It just doesn't seem
[24:52] Speaker 1: like a good look. I'm not sure this is the
[24:55] Speaker 1: time to be making jokes. Again, I'm not saying that
[24:58] Speaker 1: politicians shouldn't be able to make jokes or do fun things.
[25:02] Speaker 1: But right now, I'm just not sure that it's doing
[25:06] Speaker 1: what he thinks it's doing. All right, coming up after
[25:09] Speaker 1: the break, we'll get into it all with the panel.
[25:10] Speaker 1: Josh Frydenberg thinking about a return to politics. That and
[25:14] Speaker 1: more in a moment. Thanks for being here on Sunday Night.
[25:20] Speaker 1: Thank you for being with me. Caleb Bond in for
[25:22] Speaker 1: Paul for the week. Joining me now for the panel,
[25:24] Speaker 1: One Nation National Executive Member Lee Hanson, an independent candidate
[25:28] Speaker 1: for Frankston in Victoria. Kristen Abraham, good to see you both. Lee,
[25:33] Speaker 1: Josh Frydenberg, of course, is putting out his new book.
[25:37] Speaker 1: Shari has an interview with him tomorrow night. Shari Markson,
[25:40] Speaker 1: of course, right here on News 24. Part of his blitz.
[25:46] Speaker 1: He's talking about maybe a return to politics at some stage.
[25:51] Speaker 1: And I assume you'll have read the piece in The
[25:53] Speaker 1: Australian today or this weekend, an excerpt from his book
[25:58] Speaker 1: where he's talking about, you know, basically the Liberal Party's
[26:01] Speaker 1: in a lot of trouble and we need to find
[26:04] Speaker 1: a way forward. Otherwise, after the next federal election, if
[26:07] Speaker 1: we don't do anything, you know, the coalition will basically
[26:10] Speaker 1: be kaput. The libs are done. And more or less
[26:13] Speaker 1: what he's suggesting is some kind of Middle Road. But
[26:18] Speaker 1: I'm not sure. That's kind of what got the Libs
[26:22] Speaker 1: and the Coalition into this mess in the first place
[26:26] Speaker 1: and has helped boost your party, One Nation. So I'm
[26:29] Speaker 1: not quite sure what he thinks he's able to bring
[26:32] Speaker 1: to the table.
[26:35] Speaker 8: It's going to be interesting, Caleb, if he does, you know,
[26:39] Speaker 8: come out a little bit later down the track that
[26:40] Speaker 8: he's planning on returning to politics.
[26:43] Speaker 4: I think he's right that the Coalition are in trouble.
[26:45] Speaker 4: Both uniparties are.
[26:47] Speaker 8: And obviously that's why people have turned to One Nation
[26:50] Speaker 8: for results, for outcomes, because they haven't seen that from
[26:54] Speaker 8: the two major parties.
[26:55] Speaker 4: You know, should Josh return to politics?
[26:57] Speaker 8: I think it's an indicator purely because the coalition has
[27:01] Speaker 8: dropped considerably in the polls.
[27:03] Speaker 4: And, you know, who else is there?
[27:05] Speaker 8: Is there signs that potentially, you know, with such the
[27:09] Speaker 8: drop in the polls and Josh, you know, toying with
[27:12] Speaker 8: potential return, that Angus's job's on the line?
[27:15] Speaker 4: I don't know.
[27:15] Speaker 8: We can read between many lines here. But do I
[27:18] Speaker 8: think he can save the party if he returns? I
[27:21] Speaker 8: think that ship has sailed, sadly. I think people have
[27:24] Speaker 8: lost complete trust and.
[27:25] Speaker 4: Confidence in the coalition.
[27:26] Speaker 8: Again, why the rise in One Nation and away from
[27:29] Speaker 8: the uniparty system? So we'll just have to wait and
[27:32] Speaker 8: see what his intentions are.
[27:35] Speaker 1: Indeed. I mean, Christian, I think he still has a
[27:38] Speaker 1: lot of good to bring to public life. I wouldn't
[27:41] Speaker 1: mind seeing him back in politics, to be perfectly frank.
[27:43] Speaker 1: But the idea that the Liberal Party, in order to
[27:47] Speaker 1: find a way forward, kind of has to take the
[27:50] Speaker 1: middle ground, I'm not sure who's in that middle ground anymore.
[27:55] Speaker 1: Because all of this, and it's happened overseas before it's
[27:58] Speaker 1: come to Australia, but there's a fundamental reaction to the
[28:02] Speaker 1: fact that politics... has been done the same way it's
[28:05] Speaker 1: always been done. And it's not working for people. And
[28:08] Speaker 1: so people are looking elsewhere. I mean, to some degree,
[28:12] Speaker 1: he felt that himself. He lost his seat to Monique Ryan.
[28:15] Speaker 1: The Teals came to town, right? And you know this
[28:18] Speaker 1: very well in Melbourne. So do we end up with
[28:21] Speaker 1: more of the same, which is what people are rejecting
[28:24] Speaker 1: or not?
[28:27] Speaker 9: I'm for democracy in general. So I think anyone that
[28:30] Speaker 9: can come across strong and opposition.
[28:34] Speaker 1: The more the.
[28:34] Speaker 9: Merrier, right, for us to keep people accountable. I do
[28:37] Speaker 9: think that Josh Frydenberg gives an ability of strength. Angus
[28:42] Speaker 9: Taylor kind of came out as opposition leader and he
[28:45] Speaker 9: seemed like he had confidence, but it looks like the
[28:48] Speaker 9: leadership of the Liberal Party has kind of weaned that
[28:50] Speaker 9: away from him. So whatever the puppet masters are doing
[28:54] Speaker 9: at the top of the Liberal Party with Angus Taylor
[28:56] Speaker 9: at the moment, clearly he's too weak to kind of
[28:58] Speaker 9: stand for it and maybe the Liberal Party is over
[29:01] Speaker 9: or maybe Josh Frydenberg could come in and clean it
[29:04] Speaker 9: out a little bit and maybe it might save them
[29:06] Speaker 9: a little bit, but you can't walk it back fully.
[29:09] Speaker 9: The rise of One Nation... as Lee said, is there.
[29:15] Speaker 1: Speaking of Angus Taylor, he was on Outsiders this morning.
[29:19] Speaker 1: He was questioned about Josh Frydenberg's suggestion that the GST
[29:24] Speaker 1: should be increased. Take a look.
[29:26] Speaker 5: We will not be raising the GST in the middle
[29:30] Speaker 5: of a cost-of-living crisis. That we won't do. We will
[29:34] Speaker 5: oversee the biggest cut to immigration in the history of
[29:36] Speaker 5: this country. We will get energy to be affordable again.
[29:40] Speaker 5: We will axe Labor's toxic taxes.
[29:43] Speaker 1: Now, whether or not it's GST, Lee, I think we
[29:46] Speaker 1: do as a country need to have A genuine discussion, though,
[29:49] Speaker 1: about real tax reform. You know, there's been a lot
[29:52] Speaker 1: of fiddling around the edges, and, of course, we know
[29:54] Speaker 1: what the Albanese government has done in terms of taxes,
[29:57] Speaker 1: which is, you know, we want to make more money, basically.
[30:01] Speaker 1: But we should have a genuine discussion about real tax reform,
[30:06] Speaker 1: because it's been a long time since anyone has really
[30:10] Speaker 1: had the guts to do it.
[30:13] Speaker 4: Absolutely, we should.
[30:15] Speaker 8: And that's what One Nation's calling for. You know, we
[30:17] Speaker 8: need to reduce taxes. We need genuine reform and look at.
[30:20] Speaker 4: It at all angles.
[30:21] Speaker 8: 100% correct on that, Caleb. However, do I trust that
[30:26] Speaker 8: the Coalition can do this when they haven't achieved this
[30:28] Speaker 8: when they were actually in government and power before?
[30:31] Speaker 1: No.
[30:32] Speaker 8: Do the Australians want more broken promises from the Coalition
[30:35] Speaker 8: or the Labor government, which are only destroying the cost
[30:39] Speaker 8: of living and rising inflation in this country, and we
[30:41] Speaker 8: see increased taxes as it is? I don't have confidence.
[30:45] Speaker 8: Australians are sick of broken promises. And, again, this is
[30:47] Speaker 8: why they're turning away from the Coalition and the Labor Party,
[30:50] Speaker 8: because they do not have confidence that they can deliver this.
[30:54] Speaker 4: Hence why we want reform, and that's One Nation.
[30:58] Speaker 1: Indeed. Christian, what do you make of the suggestion that
[31:01] Speaker 1: GST ought to be increased?
[31:05] Speaker 9: Not a great start, though, for Josh Frydenberg disagreeing with
[31:09] Speaker 9: Angus Taylor. I don't think that GST should be increased
[31:13] Speaker 9: where we are at the moment. I completely agree that
[31:16] Speaker 9: we need a complete and utter tax reform. We are
[31:20] Speaker 9: taxed to the eyeballs at the moment. And if the
[31:23] Speaker 9: argument that Josh Frydenberg was going to make saying increase
[31:28] Speaker 9: GST and we'll reduce all the taxes, well, put the
[31:30] Speaker 9: goodwill forward first. Reduce the other taxes, whether that's income
[31:33] Speaker 9: tax or whatever that may be, and then maybe consider it,
[31:37] Speaker 9: but not in a cost of living crisis.
[31:41] Speaker 1: Indeed. Now, I showed this before. I'm going to show
[31:43] Speaker 1: it again, though, because it is kind of funny, but
[31:46] Speaker 1: the Prime Minister has been off doing comedy sketches. Have
[31:50] Speaker 1: a look.
[31:52] Speaker 5: Are you nervous?
[31:53] Speaker 6: Nah, I'm pretty good with parents. What did you say
[31:55] Speaker 6: he does again? He's his own boss. Right, like what
[31:58] Speaker 6: I'm going to be with my crypto course.
[32:03] Speaker 1: Hello, darling. Dad!
[32:06] Speaker 6: And who's this? Dad, this is my boyfriend, James. Well,
[32:09] Speaker 6: nice to meet you, mate. You are meeting me.
[32:12] Speaker 7: Bear in mind, I'm very protective of my daughter. And
[32:18] Speaker 7: if you break her heart, I can reinstate your hex debt.
[32:24] Speaker 6: So good to see you. So good to see you too.
[32:30] Speaker 6: Brought to you by the Australian Government Swag.
[32:35] Speaker 1: I must admit, Lee, it is amusing. But of all
[32:38] Speaker 1: the things for the Prime Minister to be doing at
[32:41] Speaker 1: the moment, I'm just not sure it washes.
[32:46] Speaker 8: You asked before you weren't quite sure on what the
[32:49] Speaker 8: strategy of this was, Caleb, earlier on in the segment. Look,
[32:54] Speaker 8: to me, it's clear that the Labor government and Anthony
[33:00] Speaker 8: Albanese is dropping in the polls, right?
[33:02] Speaker 9: So.
[33:03] Speaker 4: He's trying to come up with a new way to.
[33:05] Speaker 8: Relate and show that he's an individual, particularly to younger voters, right,
[33:10] Speaker 8: in the working class. And you do that through comedy.
[33:12] Speaker 8: But sadly, it's not the time or the place. This tactic,
[33:16] Speaker 8: you know, people are asking, where's our Prime Minister? When
[33:19] Speaker 8: interest rates are going through the roof, when inflation is high,
[33:21] Speaker 8: cost of living is high, we've got immigration, mass immigration
[33:25] Speaker 8: happening across Australia. And this is how our Prime Minister
[33:28] Speaker 8: chooses to spend his time? It's not the time for comedy.
[33:32] Speaker 8: It's the time for action. It's time for governing. And
[33:36] Speaker 8: that's what Australians want to see from their Prime Minister.
[33:39] Speaker 4: Not the next comedy stunt, you know. I'm not sure
[33:42] Speaker 4: who advises.
[33:43] Speaker 8: Him to do these, but after the last, what, the
[33:46] Speaker 8: Mellongate saga from his latest stint, wouldn't you kind of
[33:51] Speaker 8: learn from that lesson? So I'm a bit struggling as
[33:53] Speaker 8: to if I was his advisor or maybe I should
[33:56] Speaker 8: give some advice to his advisors. Concentrate on governing. Concentrate
[34:02] Speaker 8: on helping Australians with cost of living. That is the
[34:06] Speaker 8: major priority right now, not the next comedy stint. Sorry,
[34:09] Speaker 8: it doesn't get my tick of approval.
[34:12] Speaker 1: You would have thought he would have, you know, been
[34:13] Speaker 1: a bit gun-shy after the whole Mellon thing, as you say, Lee. And, Christian,
[34:18] Speaker 1: you know, it's quite apart from what One Nation does, which,
[34:22] Speaker 1: you know, the Please Explain cartoons, which are funny, but
[34:26] Speaker 1: they're also politically informative, right? They're about topics of the day.
[34:30] Speaker 1: There's actually useful information in there. It's satire of politics.
[34:36] Speaker 1: But that's not what... I mean, this is not political
[34:38] Speaker 1: at all. It's just an appearance on some... you know,
[34:41] Speaker 1: social media comedy group on Instagram. I'm not sure... Does
[34:47] Speaker 1: anyone actually look at anything like this, Christian, do you think,
[34:49] Speaker 1: and go, oh, yeah, well, now I think this guy's
[34:51] Speaker 1: a good prime minister?
[34:55] Speaker 9: I actually disagree. I think that was the most informative
[34:58] Speaker 9: Labor ad that they have ever put out. because they say,
[35:02] Speaker 9: you know, he's his own boss. Well, actually, you have
[35:05] Speaker 9: over 20 million bosses. You represent the people. And it
[35:08] Speaker 9: also shows that they use government legislation to target people
[35:13] Speaker 9: that they don't like. So I think there was a
[35:15] Speaker 9: Freudian slip there for people that were paying attention to it.
[35:19] Speaker 4: And it is informative. It is accurate. That is the
[35:22] Speaker 4: Labor Party.
[35:25] Speaker 1: Maybe they will come up with a policy to start
[35:27] Speaker 1: putting the HECS debt back on people they don't like.
[35:30] Speaker 5: Who knows?
[35:31] Speaker 1: It could be a hell of a lever to pull.
[35:32] Speaker 1: Speaking of pulling levers, finally, at the end of the week,
[35:35] Speaker 1: there was a lever pulled by the Treasurer when it
[35:38] Speaker 1: comes to the ATO and the banning of people using
[35:42] Speaker 1: credit cards to pay tax bills. But, Lee, they're not
[35:46] Speaker 1: actually getting rid of the ban. They're just delaying it.
[35:50] Speaker 1: So instead of it kicking in in November... it'll kick
[35:53] Speaker 1: in in June next year instead. So having taken all
[35:58] Speaker 1: this time to actually sort of wake up to the
[36:00] Speaker 1: fact that small business is upset about this, I'm not
[36:03] Speaker 1: sure what they're actually doing.
[36:08] Speaker 4: It's the backlash, Caleb.
[36:09] Speaker 8: They have absolutely copped it with yet another terrible decision
[36:13] Speaker 8: that they have enforced upon small businesses in this country.
[36:17] Speaker 8: And here's the thing, right? So $ 200 million a year
[36:21] Speaker 8: it will cost in card fees for the ATO. So
[36:25] Speaker 8: it's not good enough for the ATO to absorb this,
[36:27] Speaker 8: which is taxpayer funds, but yet they're quite prepared and
[36:31] Speaker 8: believe that small businesses should adopt this and absorb these fees.
[36:36] Speaker 4: So there's double standards here.
[36:38] Speaker 8: And the action that they need to take is not
[36:40] Speaker 8: delay it, but get rid of it.
[36:42] Speaker 4: Get rid of the red.
[36:43] Speaker 8: Tape and the extra fees and the extra layers of
[36:47] Speaker 8: of taxation that they are killing our small businesses here
[36:50] Speaker 8: in Australia. Do the right thing. Stop killing small businesses.
[36:55] Speaker 8: We need to stand by them because this country needs
[36:58] Speaker 8: them and we can't survive without them.
[37:01] Speaker 1: I've been rather amazed, Christian, at just how badly this
[37:04] Speaker 1: whole thing has been pulled off by the federal government.
[37:08] Speaker 1: You know, it was a decision of the RBA, but
[37:11] Speaker 1: the federal government was selling it, and I played the
[37:13] Speaker 1: clip many times last week, of the Prime Minister saying, oh,
[37:16] Speaker 1: you know, your coffee will be cheaper tomorrow when you
[37:19] Speaker 1: wake up. None of it is true. And something that,
[37:23] Speaker 1: you know, could have, should have been an easy win,
[37:27] Speaker 1: you might say, while we're getting rid of credit card surcharges,
[37:30] Speaker 1: they've just bungled it so badly.
[37:34] Speaker 9: You couldn't make this stuff up, Caleb. It's just an
[37:37] Speaker 9: example of government mismanagement. And the ATO is a perfect
[37:41] Speaker 9: example of, you know, people having to absorb these costs
[37:44] Speaker 9: and at least they've intervened from an ATO perspective, but
[37:48] Speaker 9: businesses do not have the same opportunity. And I don't
[37:52] Speaker 9: know what, I guess, we expected, Caleb, because Jim Chalmers
[37:54] Speaker 9: has never really had a proper job. So, of course,
[37:58] Speaker 9: he couldn't think this through. And I do think that
[38:01] Speaker 9: people should be withdrawing their money on payday and using
[38:05] Speaker 9: that as cash and helping businesses out because they are
[38:09] Speaker 9: struggling so enormously.
[38:13] Speaker 1: Now, of course, last week we had a migration plan
[38:17] Speaker 1: put out by the Coalition. Of course, you want to
[38:20] Speaker 1: go a bit more aggressively on these things, Lee, than
[38:22] Speaker 1: the Coalition does, but to be fair, it is far
[38:26] Speaker 1: heavier than what Labor has been talking about.
[38:28] Speaker 6: Labor's off.
[38:29] Speaker 1: I don't know why they're going after backpackers. No-one really
[38:32] Speaker 1: complains about backpackers, but anyway. But we've learnt today that
[38:36] Speaker 1: one of the reasons we must keep migration so high
[38:39] Speaker 1: and have so many visas... allowed to come into the country,
[38:43] Speaker 1: according to Tony Burke, it's because it's too damn expensive
[38:46] Speaker 1: to get rid of them. Take a look.
[38:48] Speaker 10: If the coalition is saying they're going to massively ramp
[38:52] Speaker 10: up beyond what we're doing in terms of the detention
[38:57] Speaker 10: capacity in Australia, then they need to let us know
[39:00] Speaker 10: how many beds, how many compliance officers and where the
[39:03] Speaker 10: new detention centres are going. Because those sorts of numbers
[39:08] Speaker 10: that they're talking about, we are talking billions and billions
[39:11] Speaker 10: of dollars.
[39:12] Speaker 1: It's all just too expensive, Lee. Just let them keep coming.
[39:18] Speaker 8: I'd love to know what Tony Burke's projected costing is
[39:22] Speaker 8: for the taxpayer funds for the infrastructure for all the
[39:25] Speaker 8: mass immigration. So the billions and billions and billions of
[39:28] Speaker 8: dollars for how about the roads? How about the extra
[39:31] Speaker 8: hospital beds? How about the housing? How about all the
[39:33] Speaker 8: infrastructure we need through mass immigration? Has he created transparency
[39:37] Speaker 8: in regards to how much it's actually costing the taxpayer,
[39:42] Speaker 8: let alone the knock-on effects through increased homelessness, housing supply shortages,
[39:49] Speaker 8: you know, increased.
[39:50] Speaker 4: All these knock-on effects.
[39:52] Speaker 8: So, basically, what I heard here is it's simpler for
[39:55] Speaker 8: us to hide the reality and not tackle illegal immigrants,
[40:01] Speaker 8: but rather let's just keep the floodgates open. So, there's
[40:04] Speaker 8: no real transparency, no accountability here. It's just more deflected blame,
[40:08] Speaker 8: and that is all Labor know what to do.
[40:12] Speaker 1: I've got 20 seconds, Kristen. Your response?
[40:16] Speaker 9: I'm not interested in a half-cocked migration plan from the Coalition.
[40:20] Speaker 9: I think that they should have done the hard work
[40:23] Speaker 9: and I have concerns that the PBO can't cost from,
[40:25] Speaker 9: you know, both sides if Coalition asks for Labor's policy
[40:30] Speaker 9: to be costed. So, yeah.
[40:33] Speaker 1: Very fair point. Lee, Christian, good to see you both again.
[40:37] Speaker 1: All right, Mark Dolan's here after the break. Is Reform
[40:39] Speaker 1: UK running out of puff? More on that in a moment.
[40:46] Speaker 1: Caleb Bond in for Paul as ever on a Sunday.
[40:49] Speaker 1: Talk TV host Mark Dolan is with me. Mark, good
[40:51] Speaker 1: to see you, mate. Interesting piece I read over the
[40:55] Speaker 1: weekend talking about maybe two-party politics is back in the UK.
[41:00] Speaker 1: The headline, a return of two-party politics thanks to Greens
[41:03] Speaker 1: turning toxic and a reform party that has imploded. It
[41:08] Speaker 1: is interesting. It's in the Daily Mail there. It's interesting
[41:13] Speaker 1: looking at the opinion polls since Andy Burnham became Prime Minister,
[41:19] Speaker 1: there has been something of a revival for the Labor Party.
[41:23] Speaker 1: And I can't work out whether just changing the face
[41:27] Speaker 1: has done this or whether maybe it's, you know, some
[41:29] Speaker 1: of the scandal that reform has had to deal with
[41:32] Speaker 1: in recent months as well. But there has been a
[41:35] Speaker 1: turn back to the government.
[41:38] Speaker 6: Well, definitely.
[41:39] Speaker 11: We are experiencing what you might call the Burnham bounce because...
[41:43] Speaker 11: This is a guy, as our new prime minister, who's
[41:46] Speaker 11: better at politics than Keir Starmer. He speaks human. He's
[41:49] Speaker 11: quite presentable. But I think this is a short-term headwind
[41:53] Speaker 11: for Reform UK. And it's interesting that the Daily Mail
[41:56] Speaker 11: have decided to suggest that Farage's kind of star is waning. Well,
[42:02] Speaker 11: that's wishful thinking from a very established media outlet, which
[42:05] Speaker 11: historically has supported the Conservative Party. And they do have
[42:09] Speaker 11: a very compelling leader themselves in Kemi Badenoch. who has
[42:13] Speaker 11: shifted the party to the right. But really what's happening
[42:17] Speaker 11: in the UK on a number of fronts is approaching
[42:20] Speaker 11: a crisis. So the economy, I mean, at the moment,
[42:23] Speaker 11: the UK is almost $ 6 trillion in debt, right? Every day,
[42:28] Speaker 11: $ 600 million is being paid in interest. And the extraordinary
[42:33] Speaker 11: stat is that 80% of new borrowing is to cover
[42:36] Speaker 11: the cost of debt interest. So the economy's disaster. Inflation,
[42:40] Speaker 11: people are struggling, just like the people of Australia, as
[42:42] Speaker 11: you were discussing earlier. Then we've got open borders, illegal immigration,
[42:47] Speaker 11: the highest cost of energy in the developed world because
[42:50] Speaker 11: of net zero policies. So Caleb, it doesn't matter how
[42:53] Speaker 11: handsome Andy Burnham is, and it doesn't matter the extent
[42:56] Speaker 11: to which the Tories are staging a revival. The voters
[43:00] Speaker 11: at the election, they're going to want change and there's
[43:03] Speaker 11: only one person that represents that, and that's Farage. So
[43:06] Speaker 11: I would just say that, yes, he's had some challenges,
[43:09] Speaker 11: particularly in regard to the donations scandal, but ultimately I
[43:13] Speaker 11: still see Farage as the change candidate, and I think
[43:16] Speaker 11: he's underpriced politically at the moment.
[43:20] Speaker 1: Do you think it has actually hurt him, any of
[43:23] Speaker 1: the scandal stuff, or is it, like you say about Burnham,
[43:27] Speaker 1: basically just a headwind?
[43:30] Speaker 11: Yeah, I think that it's not a great look for
[43:32] Speaker 11: Nigel to receive... in the region of five million pounds
[43:35] Speaker 11: from a crypto billionaire as a gift. We'd all welcome
[43:39] Speaker 11: a gift like that, wouldn't we? And I certainly don't
[43:41] Speaker 11: think that's helped his brand. I think more of a concern, though,
[43:44] Speaker 11: because in many ways it's priced in that Nigel is
[43:47] Speaker 11: a bit of a rogue. He's never presented himself as perfect.
[43:50] Speaker 11: He smokes a cigarette.
[43:50] Speaker 5: He drinks a pint.
[43:52] Speaker 11: He's no angel. So his brand won't suffer so much
[43:55] Speaker 11: in regard to those allegations of sleaze. I think where
[43:57] Speaker 11: reform might have a problem, Caleb, is not being seen
[44:00] Speaker 11: as a serious party. And they were caught up in
[44:03] Speaker 11: that sting with Channel 4 News, who posed as, we
[44:07] Speaker 11: basically had an actor posing as somebody that was going
[44:10] Speaker 11: to invest in polling for the party. And it just
[44:13] Speaker 11: looked amateurish. So I think that's the biggest problem. I
[44:15] Speaker 11: think reform need to be seen as a serious party
[44:18] Speaker 11: for government. And at the moment, they've got a ways
[44:20] Speaker 11: to go on that.
[44:22] Speaker 1: Well, they're seemingly preparing for an early election, right? I mean,
[44:26] Speaker 1: Farage is now off on a, on a national tour.
[44:29] Speaker 1: He's basically in campaign mode. The suggestion seems to be
[44:33] Speaker 1: that he thinks you'll have an election potentially in May
[44:37] Speaker 1: next year. Burnham will go early. I mean, your terms
[44:42] Speaker 1: are normally five years in the UK, aren't they? It
[44:45] Speaker 1: would be quite.
[44:46] Speaker 6: Early to go.
[44:48] Speaker 11: Well, that's right, because Andy Burnham has at his disposal
[44:51] Speaker 11: three years in power and a massive majority. But I
[44:55] Speaker 11: think the calculation that Nigel's making is that Andy Burnham
[44:58] Speaker 11: is going to look at the balance sheet of the country,
[45:00] Speaker 11: see that the economy is going downhill and downhill fast,
[45:04] Speaker 11: and therefore possibly go to the country before the proverbial
[45:07] Speaker 11: hits the fan. And whilst there's still a degree of
[45:10] Speaker 11: popularity around Burnham. So I think that Nigel is right.
[45:13] Speaker 11: I think that a snap election is likely. And it's
[45:16] Speaker 11: going to be, Caleb, the most consequential election probably in
[45:21] Speaker 11: the United Kingdom since the 1970s. A, because as in
[45:24] Speaker 11: the 1970s, we're on the verge of economic collapse. But
[45:28] Speaker 11: not just that, our entire politics is shifting. And if
[45:31] Speaker 11: Andy Burnham does win the next election, it's likely he'll
[45:34] Speaker 11: form a coalition with the Greens, the Lib Dems and
[45:37] Speaker 11: the SNP, who are a very left-wing Scottish party. And
[45:41] Speaker 11: that could change the face of the country forever.
[45:45] Speaker 1: Oh, indeed. Or you could have a reform government, potentially,
[45:48] Speaker 1: or a reform and conservative coalition.
[45:51] Speaker 6: Well, you nailed it, and.
[45:52] Speaker 11: That's why it's huge, Caleb, and it's a yellow brick
[45:55] Speaker 11: road moment for the UK. And, of course, the problem
[45:58] Speaker 11: we've got is that the conservatives and reform agree on
[46:02] Speaker 11: almost everything. But right now they're fighting like rats in
[46:05] Speaker 11: a sack and they are cancelling each other out, which
[46:07] Speaker 11: is great news for the left. So, you know, what
[46:09] Speaker 11: the country needs, in my humble opinion, is some robustly
[46:13] Speaker 11: right-wing policies. We need border control. We need to drill
[46:16] Speaker 11: baby drill alongside renewables. We need to reduce the welfare budget,
[46:21] Speaker 11: which is now higher than the tax take of the country.
[46:24] Speaker 11: And those are all conservative policies. But the issue is
[46:27] Speaker 11: that we may get the opposite, which is more borrowing,
[46:30] Speaker 11: more tax and more decline.
[46:33] Speaker 1: Hey, quickly before we go, Mark, Prince Harry is going
[46:36] Speaker 1: to the rugby. He's been booed. Take a look at this.
[46:55] Speaker 1: The poor bagger, eh?
[46:57] Speaker 6: Awkward.
[46:58] Speaker 1: Awkward.
[46:58] Speaker 11: I mean, this is so bad because we know that
[47:01] Speaker 11: the Sussexes are a little controversial. Meghan, certainly, there's no
[47:05] Speaker 11: love lost between her and the British people. But for
[47:07] Speaker 11: Harry to go to a sporting event like this, this
[47:10] Speaker 11: was the Leicester Tigers match against Gloucester on Friday, to
[47:14] Speaker 11: get booed when he appears on the big screen is
[47:16] Speaker 11: a big problem. especially because Harry needs to make some money.
[47:20] Speaker 11: So he's got to be admired by the public and
[47:22] Speaker 11: by those corporations that sponsor Invictus. So his brand looks
[47:26] Speaker 11: quite tainted at the moment. It must have been quite humiliating.
[47:29] Speaker 11: I mean, the main issue is not really public anger.
[47:32] Speaker 11: He's not been booed that much, Caleb. The main thing
[47:35] Speaker 11: is that the British people have reacted exactly the way
[47:37] Speaker 11: the Australian people have. reacted to Harry and Meghan's fake
[47:40] Speaker 11: royal tour a few months ago, which is a shrug
[47:43] Speaker 11: of the shoulder. In fact, he should be quite happy
[47:45] Speaker 11: he was booed. At least people were paying attention. Most
[47:48] Speaker 11: of the time, they're just ignoring this couple.
[47:52] Speaker 1: Indeed, and I think the world is probably better if
[47:54] Speaker 1: we do. Mark Dolan, good to talk to you as always.
[47:56] Speaker 1: All right, it wouldn't be Paul Murray Live if we
[47:58] Speaker 1: didn't mention Bathurst and what a result it was. More
[48:01] Speaker 1: on that in a bit. Now, it is Paul Murray Live,
[48:08] Speaker 1: so it would be remiss of me not to mention Bathurst.
[48:11] Speaker 1: What a result it was today for Brodie Kostecki because,
[48:16] Speaker 1: can you believe it, Anton Di Pasquale ran out of fuel.
[48:20] Speaker 6: Run it out or win.
[48:21] Speaker 7: It's done.
[48:22] Speaker 1: It's done. He's run out of fuel.
[48:24] Speaker 6: It's done.
[48:24] Speaker 2: Brodie Kostecki goes through to the race lead on the.
[48:27] Speaker 1: Final lap and Anton Di Pasquale.
[48:30] Speaker 6: Has run out of fuel. It's a mountain boil over.
[48:34] Speaker 1: Extraordinary scenes. I mean, imagine going to Bathurst and then
[48:40] Speaker 1: you lose the race because you've run out of fuel.
[48:42] Speaker 1: Talk about bad luck. Thank you for joining me tonight.
[48:44] Speaker 1: I'll be back tomorrow. Here's Late Edition.

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