# Paul Murray Live | 15 October

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 15 Oct 2025, 50 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/7a0d6125-b9fb-4980-8225-b37700beffd3/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Net Zero debate diving the nation, EV lobby calls for 2035 petrol car sale ban, Australian birth rate hits record low. Plus, will peace hold in the Middle East? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: And the Sky Center. This is Paul Murray Live.
[0:06] Speaker 2: Thank you, Sherry, I was running when they think jacket
[0:08] Speaker 2: had gone. She of course halves it, halves it again
[0:10] Speaker 2: and then it'll fit her all right. Now, lots to
[0:13] Speaker 2: get to tonight, including I want to tell the woke
[0:15] Speaker 2: is why Australia is not jumping into every possible and
[0:19] Speaker 2: free available electric vehicle.
[0:22] Speaker 1: Now you know I'm a petrol head.
[0:23] Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that I am anti ev. I'll
[0:26] Speaker 2: explain why that matters and why I think Australians are
[0:29] Speaker 2: not quite doing what.
[0:30] Speaker 1: They have been told to do.
[0:32] Speaker 2: We'll have a chat to analysee Nielson, our dear friend
[0:34] Speaker 2: in the United States. There's a lot going on, including
[0:37] Speaker 2: the fact that remember, by about this time next week
[0:40] Speaker 2: we're going to have a meeting between the Australian Prime
[0:42] Speaker 2: Minister and the President of the United States. Is it
[0:44] Speaker 2: going to be a blow up or is it going
[0:45] Speaker 2: to be a bit of.
[0:46] Speaker 1: A love feast. We'll have a chat to Anlys about that.
[0:48] Speaker 2: You would have noticed by now that Susan Lee goes
[0:50] Speaker 2: to Victoria mentions there's one or two problems with crime
[0:54] Speaker 2: and the Premier turns it into a whole Oh she's
[0:56] Speaker 2: anti Victorian. Please please surely Victorians for for it, but
[1:00] Speaker 2: labors leading in the past. A reminder we not this Sunday,
[1:03] Speaker 2: but next Sunday are going to be in Belconnen in
[1:06] Speaker 2: the act for our next our town.
[1:07] Speaker 1: It mon't just be specifically about Bett belconom.
[1:09] Speaker 2: There's lots of other things to celebrate around the wider
[1:12] Speaker 2: region and that's what we will do. Join us if
[1:14] Speaker 2: you would like to come along, free tickets. Ourtown at
[1:16] Speaker 2: sky news dot com dot you Ourtown at skynews dot
[1:19] Speaker 2: com dot au. Now there is one topic that is
[1:23] Speaker 2: discussed an awful lot in Australia.
[1:27] Speaker 3: Net zero net zero to zero net zero, net zero,
[1:30] Speaker 3: net zero.
[1:31] Speaker 2: Net zero, net zero, net zero, net zero, net zero.
[1:34] Speaker 1: Net zero.
[1:36] Speaker 2: And sometimes I have a little feeling that I wish
[1:38] Speaker 2: that we had a net zero target on talking about
[1:41] Speaker 2: the politics of net zero. But the Prime Minister seems
[1:45] Speaker 2: to believe that if you do not believe in everything
[1:47] Speaker 2: he is doing, then somehow you wish to doom the planet.
[1:52] Speaker 2: Now you know how many documentaries and how many guests
[1:55] Speaker 2: and all of the evidence that we have put on
[1:57] Speaker 2: the table here in sky News Primetime about the common
[2:01] Speaker 2: sense about the idea that Australia is one percent of
[2:03] Speaker 2: the world's problem, and countries like China who are more
[2:06] Speaker 2: than thirty times the climate problem. Australia is going at
[2:10] Speaker 2: a slower pace than we are trying to do. But
[2:13] Speaker 2: the Prime Minister wants you to ignore all of that.
[2:16] Speaker 2: He wants it to get down to a very simple
[2:17] Speaker 2: bumper sticker, and frankly, it's one that is enough to
[2:21] Speaker 2: seal the deal for many Australians. Not you, not me,
[2:25] Speaker 2: But this is his line.
[2:27] Speaker 4: If you get rid of net zero, you are saying
[2:30] Speaker 4: climate change is not real.
[2:33] Speaker 2: Not true at all, not true at all. It is
[2:39] Speaker 2: and has always been about the cost of transition for
[2:42] Speaker 2: as long as I've sat here for the best part
[2:43] Speaker 2: of fifteen years. In fact, for fifteen years I've talked
[2:46] Speaker 2: about this, the cost of transition. How much does it
[2:49] Speaker 2: take to go from one power system to another? Not
[2:53] Speaker 2: just in the trillions of dollars that are required to
[2:55] Speaker 2: build a new system, but what is the flow and
[2:57] Speaker 2: effect to the customer?
[2:58] Speaker 1: What we will know what is right now?
[3:00] Speaker 2: What does it mean in terms of the industrialization, in
[3:03] Speaker 2: terms of agriculture, in terms of transport. All of those
[3:06] Speaker 2: conversations and also, you know that for the entirety of
[3:09] Speaker 2: the fifteen years I have not been pretending nothing to
[3:11] Speaker 2: see here. You can't have bid into people on the
[3:12] Speaker 2: planet without significant environmental effects and multiple, multiple industrial revolutions.
[3:19] Speaker 2: The question is by what margin and at what speed
[3:21] Speaker 2: should Australia be trying to outpace countries that are far
[3:25] Speaker 2: dirtier than we are. We have spent a lot of
[3:29] Speaker 2: time in the past few days talking about this opinion poll,
[3:32] Speaker 2: including conversation that we had because of Mars last night.
[3:34] Speaker 2: It's about a Blobe's skyews, dot com dot au. It
[3:37] Speaker 2: shows that there is no majority support for Australia sticking
[3:41] Speaker 2: to the current emissions target of need zero by twenty fifty.
[3:45] Speaker 2: It's basically the same number who say the coalition should
[3:47] Speaker 2: drop it as the number who say that they shouldn't.
[3:50] Speaker 2: And that conversation which we have been talking about is
[3:53] Speaker 2: because about a quarter of the electric is now sitting
[3:55] Speaker 2: in the don't know. As cost told us last night,
[3:58] Speaker 2: the younger you go will don't know is not about
[4:01] Speaker 2: whether it should happen or not. It's just about it
[4:03] Speaker 2: is this is net zero the best way to deliver
[4:05] Speaker 2: action on climate change. But we've talked about it uphill
[4:08] Speaker 2: and down there. Well, another opinion poll has dropped.
[4:12] Speaker 1: Don't worry.
[4:12] Speaker 2: You don't have to follow the colors follow the details here.
[4:14] Speaker 2: I just want to show you as it was presented
[4:17] Speaker 2: today on the nine newspaper news websites. Now, as opposed
[4:23] Speaker 2: to should Australia have a net zero taget by twenty fifty?
[4:25] Speaker 1: You know half a dozen words we get.
[4:27] Speaker 2: Some within the party would love to dump net zero
[4:30] Speaker 2: by twenty fifty emissions commitment, citing its cost and that
[4:33] Speaker 2: no other country is on track to meet it, while
[4:35] Speaker 2: others would prefer to keep it. Do you support or
[4:38] Speaker 2: oppose Australia's continuing commitment to net zero by twenty fifty?
[4:42] Speaker 2: I mean, I've already fallen asleep halfway through the question,
[4:45] Speaker 2: and I'm reading the question to you on television.
[4:48] Speaker 1: Now.
[4:49] Speaker 2: Importantly, you need to note here that the biggest number
[4:52] Speaker 2: of people responding to this survey say no stick with
[4:55] Speaker 2: net zero by twenty fifty forty four percent. Okay, those
[4:58] Speaker 2: who say dump it twenty two two? We can all
[5:01] Speaker 2: do o MAT's meaning not many of the so called undecided's.
[5:04] Speaker 2: The gray area would simply need to fall in favor
[5:08] Speaker 2: of the target for it to get majority support. But
[5:11] Speaker 2: the picture does change a little. You see, if you
[5:15] Speaker 2: have a look at the support for net zero by
[5:17] Speaker 2: twenty fifty, it is just a majority position held by
[5:20] Speaker 2: labor voters. It is not a majority position held by
[5:23] Speaker 2: coalition voters. But even then there is thirty eight who
[5:27] Speaker 2: say keep, thirty one who say drop. Unsurprisingly Greens, and
[5:32] Speaker 2: by the way, who are the thirty one percent of
[5:34] Speaker 2: Greens who somehow don't like the highest emissions targets we've
[5:37] Speaker 2: ever had in the country. And of course, unsurprisingly one
[5:39] Speaker 2: nation voters, their biggest groups nut bugger, get rid of it.
[5:44] Speaker 2: But this is the bit I wanted to show you
[5:45] Speaker 2: because I find this bit fascinating. Which is just forty
[5:49] Speaker 2: three percent of uncommitted voters, the people.
[5:51] Speaker 1: Who still two would have bit ears.
[5:53] Speaker 2: Out put themselves in the category where they haven't decided
[5:56] Speaker 2: which way they're going to fall. They say keep it,
[6:00] Speaker 2: percent say dump. At thirty nine percent are in the
[6:02] Speaker 2: mystery zone, thirty seven percent in the marginal seats, but
[6:05] Speaker 2: again close to fifty who say keep it. I show
[6:08] Speaker 2: you all of this because I don't want anyone to
[6:09] Speaker 2: be flying blind about the data and which way some
[6:13] Speaker 2: of the opinion polls are going. I'm not trying to
[6:15] Speaker 2: lead the party in one direction or another. This ain't church,
[6:19] Speaker 2: It's a TV show and I'm just giving you the
[6:21] Speaker 2: latest info so you can help have the conversations whenever
[6:25] Speaker 2: they come up in your house. But the latest version
[6:30] Speaker 2: of the climate fight, which has been had and has
[6:32] Speaker 2: been somewhat distracted by the events overseas in the past
[6:35] Speaker 2: couple of days, has to do with a battle about cars.
[6:39] Speaker 2: And for once, I'm not talking about the great battle
[6:41] Speaker 2: of cars that was on the track this weekend. Down
[6:45] Speaker 2: the inside comes paining again by side by side with
[6:48] Speaker 2: a tiny bit of contact. This is going to be
[6:51] Speaker 2: a drag race to the bottom.
[6:52] Speaker 1: This by change the lead in the red.
[6:54] Speaker 5: Coat papast one thousand pain has just barely got the
[6:57] Speaker 5: nose in front.
[6:58] Speaker 2: Who is going to be braved own? And of whether
[7:01] Speaker 2: or not going can be a beneficiary?
[7:03] Speaker 1: This is absolutely crazy.
[7:06] Speaker 2: I still know the result, but I'm leaning in yes,
[7:08] Speaker 2: any excuse, you know, I'll find a way. No, not
[7:12] Speaker 2: a conversation about supercars, but a conversation about whether australia
[7:15] Speaker 2: Is future on the road is electric or hybrid and petrol?
[7:22] Speaker 2: Now you know that those who believe that evs are
[7:24] Speaker 2: the total and soul future try to sell it to
[7:27] Speaker 2: us in a whole bunch of different ways. Now, this
[7:29] Speaker 2: is the point where I have to be very very clear.
[7:31] Speaker 2: I am not each way albow on this issue. I
[7:33] Speaker 2: am just a car lover, and I know that there
[7:36] Speaker 2: are great advantages the acceleration and all the rest of it,
[7:39] Speaker 2: and some of the speeds that are coming out of
[7:40] Speaker 2: EV's at the moment not unbelievable. But I also know
[7:44] Speaker 2: the majority of Australians would like the choice and if
[7:46] Speaker 2: they want to go somewhere, they want to go to
[7:47] Speaker 2: a hybrid as they move their way from petrol or
[7:50] Speaker 2: diesel or whatever works for you. You see, I'm libertarian on
[7:54] Speaker 2: this issue, which means you do you as long as
[7:57] Speaker 2: your choice doesn't hurt somebody else. And given them reality
[8:00] Speaker 2: that Australia is only twenty seven million people, the car
[8:03] Speaker 2: choice is in Indonesia with more than three hundred million people,
[8:07] Speaker 2: means more than anything we can possibly do to the environment,
[8:10] Speaker 2: let alone. Once you start to move to populations like
[8:13] Speaker 2: India where no, not every one of their billion people
[8:17] Speaker 2: has a car, or the same as China, but still
[8:19] Speaker 2: hundreds and hundreds of millions of people making choices about
[8:23] Speaker 2: cars will have more effect.
[8:24] Speaker 1: On the environment.
[8:26] Speaker 2: So again, you do you if you want to either
[8:30] Speaker 2: show off or you think there's better performance this way
[8:32] Speaker 2: or that way. I don't care if you want to
[8:34] Speaker 2: get around in one of those giant American.
[8:36] Speaker 1: Trucks with those beautiful hips.
[8:38] Speaker 2: Or you want to zip around in the smallest little
[8:41] Speaker 2: electric thing that we'll run out of battery in two case,
[8:44] Speaker 2: I don't care.
[8:45] Speaker 1: You do you?
[8:46] Speaker 2: It's a great joy of being a car lover. But
[8:49] Speaker 2: this week we're being told that all petrol vehicles must
[8:52] Speaker 2: go within ten years by who, the electric vehicle lobby. This,
[8:58] Speaker 2: in part is what they were telling us in the
[9:00] Speaker 2: air just a couple of days ago that put simply,
[9:02] Speaker 2: they say no more petrol cars to be sold in
[9:04] Speaker 2: Australia from twenty thirty five.
[9:08] Speaker 6: What we've proposed is a very reasonable measure, which is
[9:11] Speaker 6: that after twenty thirty five, if you buy a petrol
[9:14] Speaker 6: or diesel vehicle, you should be allowed to register it
[9:17] Speaker 6: because it's going to be that bad for an environment.
[9:19] Speaker 7: What we're saying instead is that people should be given
[9:22] Speaker 7: a long.
[9:23] Speaker 6: Range of sight and know that's where the direction is going,
[9:25] Speaker 6: so they can make the change their behavior.
[9:29] Speaker 1: Don't you love this?
[9:29] Speaker 2: It's a very reasonable proposition. You can buy a petrol car,
[9:32] Speaker 2: but you won't be able to register it.
[9:36] Speaker 1: Now again, that's the.
[9:37] Speaker 2: Electric vehicle lobby. It is in their business interest. What's
[9:41] Speaker 2: just environmental but business interest for you to buy more
[9:44] Speaker 2: electric vehicles. Great again, why do they want a ban
[9:51] Speaker 2: on all petrol vehicles not to be sold in this
[9:55] Speaker 2: country from twenty thirty five?
[9:58] Speaker 7: It's actually very reasonable.
[10:00] Speaker 6: What we're saying is that we know that by twenty
[10:02] Speaker 6: thirty five we need to have decarbonized our transport fleet
[10:05] Speaker 6: because can't stay in our environment, in our fleet.
[10:08] Speaker 7: From up to ten to fifteen years. In order to be.
[10:11] Speaker 6: Able to live in an environment where there are temperature
[10:14] Speaker 6: increases in our environment does change, we do need to
[10:17] Speaker 6: take carbon diox out of the air.
[10:19] Speaker 7: That's the fundamental principle.
[10:20] Speaker 1: I mean, it's all just so very reasonable.
[10:23] Speaker 2: Don't you love the way that this is sort of
[10:25] Speaker 2: a very polite way that somebody walks into your office
[10:28] Speaker 2: and says, so, look, we think you should be out
[10:31] Speaker 2: of business. Look we're giving you a ten year heads
[10:33] Speaker 2: up on it, so you can get as much out
[10:35] Speaker 2: of as possible, but then done very reasonable. Now, obviously
[10:39] Speaker 2: if there is a climate emergency, people would be arguing
[10:42] Speaker 2: this should be happening maybe in five years, two years,
[10:44] Speaker 2: three years, one year, but no way, very reasonable proposition.
[10:48] Speaker 2: Now this has already become the policy of places like
[10:51] Speaker 2: the Act which are not going to have combustion engines.
[10:55] Speaker 2: No petrol sales that I think kicks in from the
[10:57] Speaker 2: twenty thirty or the very early thirties. I think people
[11:02] Speaker 2: might find a way to cross the border to keep
[11:05] Speaker 2: buying petrol cars if that's what they want to do. Again,
[11:08] Speaker 2: you do you, you do you right, And the electric
[11:13] Speaker 2: market is growing in Australia. I'm not stupid enough to
[11:16] Speaker 2: think that it is not something people are starting to embrace.
[11:19] Speaker 2: And again, at some point in time, will I own one.
[11:22] Speaker 2: Maybe I looked at one of those electric mokes because
[11:25] Speaker 2: I thought it'd be fun and a good smoking car,
[11:27] Speaker 2: and then somebody told me the price tags more than
[11:30] Speaker 2: one hundred grand.
[11:31] Speaker 1: No, No, I can pick.
[11:33] Speaker 2: One up of unique cars or car sales for a
[11:37] Speaker 2: lot less than that. Anyway, you need to see this, though,
[11:40] Speaker 2: which is despite the fact that we are being pushed
[11:43] Speaker 2: towards electric vehicles and again you do you.
[11:45] Speaker 1: There's a point to all this story by the way
[11:47] Speaker 1: you do you.
[11:49] Speaker 2: They're going okay, but they're not dominating right. In fact,
[11:52] Speaker 2: EVA is now account for just twelve percent of all
[11:56] Speaker 2: of the new vehicles that are sold, which is up
[11:58] Speaker 2: from nine percent.
[12:00] Speaker 1: Just last year.
[12:01] Speaker 2: Great, awesome, cool, But here's the bit. EV's only make
[12:04] Speaker 2: up two percent of all of the cars on Australian roads.
[12:07] Speaker 1: Now.
[12:08] Speaker 2: I don't know what the EV Council's position is. If
[12:10] Speaker 2: you've got forbid to earn a used car and didn't
[12:12] Speaker 2: buy anything in the past couple of years, whether you
[12:14] Speaker 2: slowly we surely won't be able to register it from
[12:17] Speaker 2: ten years away. I don't know.
[12:18] Speaker 1: Nobody ever talks about this issue.
[12:22] Speaker 2: But very interestingly, the case that was being made today
[12:27] Speaker 2: as to why perhaps Australia is not jumping in the
[12:30] Speaker 2: nearest EV is not buying one any time soon comes
[12:34] Speaker 2: from two really important pieces of information.
[12:37] Speaker 1: The very same.
[12:38] Speaker 2: People who did the polling about all of that net
[12:40] Speaker 2: zero stuff that I showed you before. The Resolve political
[12:43] Speaker 2: monitor appearing in the Channel nine newspapers and news websites
[12:47] Speaker 2: show the thirty five percent of people are going to
[12:51] Speaker 2: buy a petrol or diesel vehicle. Next, twenty one percent
[12:54] Speaker 2: on a hybrid vehicle. You put that together, you're at
[12:56] Speaker 2: fifty six percent. Say, yep, they're all in on the
[13:02] Speaker 2: idea of an electric vehicle.
[13:04] Speaker 1: Others are unsure, et cetera, et cetera. But can I
[13:07] Speaker 1: just say to.
[13:08] Speaker 2: The electric vehicle evangelists who believe that if we do
[13:12] Speaker 2: not make the transition, then somehow Australians want to do
[13:16] Speaker 2: their worst for the environment, or government policy must be
[13:20] Speaker 2: put in place to change the way things work. Perhaps
[13:23] Speaker 2: the biggest reason why people that have been lifelong petrol
[13:27] Speaker 2: heads like myself have not made the transition yet was
[13:32] Speaker 2: also covered today by an interesting piece of information in
[13:36] Speaker 2: the Australian Financial Review.
[13:39] Speaker 1: You see, the reason.
[13:41] Speaker 2: Many people are not buying them is because they don't
[13:45] Speaker 2: know what you can sell them for.
[13:48] Speaker 1: In five or ten years.
[13:49] Speaker 2: You see, of course, in the olden days, if you
[13:51] Speaker 2: used to buy a camerio Kerala Falcon on that erar,
[13:56] Speaker 2: you'd be able to buy it for a certain amount.
[13:58] Speaker 2: Probably you know, rolls back a little bit in the
[14:01] Speaker 2: first couple of years that it's kind of half priced,
[14:03] Speaker 2: but then eventually they're still running pretty good. And I
[14:05] Speaker 2: remember my first car being the little Gemini that was
[14:09] Speaker 2: still rolling around for thousands of dollars. It was still
[14:12] Speaker 2: quite approachable and it still would be able to do
[14:14] Speaker 2: plenty of clicks. But because the technology hasn't been around
[14:17] Speaker 2: for long enough, we don't know what the resale market is.
[14:20] Speaker 2: So before we say we must change the rules, let's
[14:23] Speaker 2: actually get the evidence about what the resale market is like.
[14:26] Speaker 2: And then surprise, surprise, families around Australia may start doing
[14:30] Speaker 2: it if they think they're not going to do all
[14:32] Speaker 2: their money and that there are people who want to
[14:35] Speaker 2: buy an electric vehicle that's got fifty or one hundred
[14:38] Speaker 2: and thousand or maybe even one hundred and fifty thousand
[14:41] Speaker 2: k's on the clock. Again, back to the Financial Review,
[14:45] Speaker 2: This is a response to what I was seeing here,
[14:47] Speaker 2: because these people, with their very reasonable propositions, need to
[14:51] Speaker 2: know the facts that an EV built last year on average,
[14:55] Speaker 2: held seventy eight percent of its value on the secondhand market.
[15:00] Speaker 2: That's all right, compared to ninety four point three percent
[15:03] Speaker 2: for a car with an internal combustion engine.
[15:06] Speaker 1: Maybe that's why people haven't bought an EV yet.
[15:08] Speaker 2: Maybe that's why people should think twice before we start
[15:11] Speaker 2: changing the laws, telling them what we are or aren't
[15:13] Speaker 2: going to be doing in five or ten years time.
[15:15] Speaker 2: This is put together by the people who sell cars,
[15:18] Speaker 2: and they don't care what car they sell the Australian
[15:22] Speaker 2: Automative Dealer Association. For older vehicles, the discrepancy is even
[15:27] Speaker 2: more severe. An EV built in twenty nineteen held an
[15:31] Speaker 2: average of only forty one point nine percent of its
[15:34] Speaker 2: original purchase value. Well, the internal combustion engine ICE or
[15:39] Speaker 2: hybrid passenger cars retain seventy five point two percent of
[15:44] Speaker 2: their value. So it's a long way to go to
[15:48] Speaker 2: make a very simple point, but I wanted to put
[15:50] Speaker 2: some data there before people just say you're denying claim
[15:53] Speaker 2: a change. No, I'm dealing with the reality that, apart
[15:57] Speaker 2: from buying a house, buying a car is probably the
[16:01] Speaker 2: biggest purchase most people in Australia make. Some people are
[16:05] Speaker 2: lucky enough to be able to pay it in cash.
[16:08] Speaker 2: Many will lease and hope that they never have to
[16:10] Speaker 2: get to that balloon payment. Others will, of course slowly
[16:13] Speaker 2: but surely pay it off fire alone, which means at
[16:16] Speaker 2: some point you are planning to trade it in or
[16:19] Speaker 2: you are planning to sell it, and you would like
[16:22] Speaker 2: to know that as much value as possible is kept
[16:25] Speaker 2: in the car. So at the end of the day,
[16:27] Speaker 2: the hip pocket is going to be the decide here
[16:30] Speaker 2: because the environment will of course, Remember, even if Australia
[16:33] Speaker 2: does everything all of these green groups want to do,
[16:35] Speaker 2: will still be affected by what happens in China, what
[16:38] Speaker 2: happens in Russia, what happens in India, what happens in
[16:41] Speaker 2: the United States, what happens in.
[16:42] Speaker 1: The Third world. But of course every time you point
[16:45] Speaker 1: that out, you Denia.
[16:48] Speaker 2: Please, Now, let's have a chat about beautiful babies, right,
[16:53] Speaker 2: beautiful bubbers. I've been lucky enough to have three in
[16:56] Speaker 2: my life, two beautiful girls that get to cuddle each
[16:59] Speaker 2: and every day. And you know, that new baby in
[17:02] Speaker 2: the family one of the greatest things that can happen
[17:04] Speaker 2: to a family. All Right, I'm patting here because I'm
[17:06] Speaker 2: hoping to show you some babies at some moment in
[17:08] Speaker 2: time here. All right, Oh wow, baby's cool.
[17:10] Speaker 1: Now.
[17:11] Speaker 2: The thing is, if you don't have enough babies in
[17:14] Speaker 2: your country, then there's only one way to keep the
[17:17] Speaker 2: population growing, and that is of course immigration, and that
[17:22] Speaker 2: leads to more people than ever before. We symbolize this
[17:26] Speaker 2: by lots of people in a busy street. It's the
[17:28] Speaker 2: best metaphor we can possibly show you without somebody writing
[17:31] Speaker 2: me a letter of complaint. Well, we learned today that
[17:35] Speaker 2: Australia's birth rate is in a world of trouble, which
[17:38] Speaker 2: means fewer babies, more immigration. Australia's fertility rate has collapsed
[17:45] Speaker 2: to its lowest level on record, forcing the country to
[17:47] Speaker 2: rely more heavily on immigration to expand the population as
[17:51] Speaker 2: parents increasingly choose to have children when they're older. This
[17:55] Speaker 2: is not made up by some far right wing group. Instead,
[17:59] Speaker 2: it's the far right wingers of the Australian Bureau of Statistics.
[18:02] Speaker 2: They put out some numbers today showing that the fertility
[18:04] Speaker 2: rate ferral to one point four eight berts per woman,
[18:08] Speaker 2: the lowest since records have begun.
[18:09] Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty one.
[18:12] Speaker 2: This is despite the fact that actually was a little
[18:14] Speaker 2: increase in the number of babies that were born last year.
[18:17] Speaker 2: It's up by almost two percent to two hundred and
[18:19] Speaker 2: ninety twenty three hundred and eighteen little beautiful bubbers. But
[18:24] Speaker 2: the reality is, if you don't have the babies and
[18:27] Speaker 2: you don't have government policies that encourage people to have
[18:29] Speaker 2: the babies. Well then, of course for the great Ponzi scheme,
[18:33] Speaker 2: that is the Australian federal.
[18:34] Speaker 1: Budget, which needs to grow.
[18:36] Speaker 2: The amount of people that are paying tax in order
[18:39] Speaker 2: to pay for all of the promises that it has
[18:41] Speaker 2: made to people as they have voted election after election
[18:44] Speaker 2: after election after election. Well, as I said, the only
[18:48] Speaker 2: option is bust them in, fly them in. Let's get
[18:51] Speaker 2: more people to hit the streets as hard as possible.
[18:54] Speaker 2: And the reality is is that while to talk about
[18:57] Speaker 2: this through race and culture is only going to get
[18:59] Speaker 2: yourself in trouble talking about it in the reality of
[19:03] Speaker 2: eight hundred people recently turned up to a rental inspection
[19:08] Speaker 2: for one unit in Bondi, but one hundred and fifty
[19:11] Speaker 2: people have turned up to a rental that was available
[19:14] Speaker 2: in Ipswich. That is why Australia has to tap the
[19:18] Speaker 2: brakes at some point the Ponzi scheme. And I was
[19:21] Speaker 2: talking about this with Dick Smith the other night. The
[19:25] Speaker 2: nature of the Ponzi scheme is that the triangle can
[19:30] Speaker 2: I need to do that. The pyramid just keeps getting
[19:31] Speaker 2: bigger and bigger and bigger. But it has to have
[19:32] Speaker 2: a bigger and bigger base. The design of the system
[19:36] Speaker 2: is that it requires more people to be tipped into it.
[19:38] Speaker 2: Hence why you go from eighteen million people who we
[19:41] Speaker 2: hear thirty years ago twenty eight million now on our
[19:43] Speaker 2: way towards forty in thirty years from now. Do you
[19:47] Speaker 2: think the Rhodes Hospital, schools all the rest of it
[19:49] Speaker 2: are ready for forty million people in Australia. Well, I
[19:53] Speaker 2: don't have to guess, because the Institute of Public Affairs,
[19:56] Speaker 2: the people who of course supported that wonderful documentary and
[19:59] Speaker 2: doesn't it make you feel good to be an Aussie
[20:01] Speaker 2: about Australia history by the former Prime Minister Toney Abbitt
[20:04] Speaker 2: available now it's going to use dot com dot a.
[20:06] Speaker 2: You can sign up share it with you mate just
[20:07] Speaker 2: five bucks a month. Well sixty percent of Australians now
[20:11] Speaker 2: believe that immigration is too high. Seven percent say it's
[20:16] Speaker 2: too low. These people obviously work for Treasury. Thirty three
[20:20] Speaker 2: percent say man kind of you know, I don't really
[20:22] Speaker 2: want to talk about it. This is very interesting when
[20:25] Speaker 2: you start to have a look at the numbers by age.
[20:29] Speaker 2: In fact, every single age group from eighteen to sixty
[20:33] Speaker 2: five just pay attention to the top line, the majority
[20:36] Speaker 2: of which, with a slight.
[20:39] Speaker 1: Closeness there twenty five to thirty four.
[20:40] Speaker 2: But essentially the biggest number in every single group is
[20:43] Speaker 2: that it is too high. Interestingly, should Australia pause immigration?
[20:48] Speaker 2: Now I'm not talking about turning it down, I talk
[20:50] Speaker 2: about turning it down. This is a question of it.
[20:52] Speaker 2: Should we press pause? Seventy one percent of people up
[20:56] Speaker 2: eleven percent since the last time they were asked a
[20:58] Speaker 2: couple of years ago. Now, I believe Australia should pause immigration,
[21:03] Speaker 2: But God forbid anyone ever actually makes that point, because,
[21:08] Speaker 2: of course, we know that the Labor Party in particular
[21:10] Speaker 2: desperate to shut this conversation up because they need the
[21:13] Speaker 2: Ponzi scheme to keep going. Why because, by their own
[21:16] Speaker 2: admission an Intergeneration report, Australia is in budget deficit for
[21:21] Speaker 2: the next forty years.
[21:23] Speaker 1: So even when Australia.
[21:24] Speaker 2: Had forty forty five or even fifty million people living
[21:28] Speaker 2: in it right now, the federal budget would still be
[21:31] Speaker 2: running in deficit. Why because of the promises made that
[21:34] Speaker 2: no one can pay for. This year, we will go
[21:37] Speaker 2: over one t four trillion dollars debt, which will eventually
[21:42] Speaker 2: become one point one, one point two, one point five,
[21:45] Speaker 2: one point seven, eventually another two or a total of
[21:49] Speaker 2: two trillion dollars debt. That's not off in the nevern never,
[21:52] Speaker 2: that's in the reality of most likely how long this
[21:55] Speaker 2: labor mob is going to be sticking around. Australians have
[21:58] Speaker 2: to demand more of our politics. But of course, the
[22:04] Speaker 2: triangle of dependence, which I'll discuss next in Victoria, is
[22:08] Speaker 2: one of the reasons why this problem.
[22:10] Speaker 1: Keeps getting worse.
[22:12] Speaker 2: Perhaps the only way to guarantee that the immigration situation
[22:16] Speaker 2: gets dealt with some degree is for more people to
[22:18] Speaker 2: have more kids earlier, not seven hundred, not sending everyone
[22:22] Speaker 2: back to the kitchen, just the idea that very simply
[22:25] Speaker 2: a decision not to have kids or a decision to
[22:28] Speaker 2: only have one does mean that for the population to grow,
[22:33] Speaker 2: it's going to be more people coming in. And they're
[22:35] Speaker 2: not coming in as babies. They're coming in as people
[22:37] Speaker 2: who will compete with you for a house with you,
[22:40] Speaker 2: for a job with you, for a TRIPLEO system that
[22:44] Speaker 2: in Victoria is stuffed. In fact, remember just a couple
[22:51] Speaker 2: of weeks ago, when any conversation about the TRIPLEO system
[22:55] Speaker 2: and its failures, particularly when it came to Optus headline
[23:00] Speaker 2: news and anyone who could get near a microphone was
[23:03] Speaker 2: yelling as loud as they could because the Triplo system
[23:06] Speaker 2: did not work on one of out three major phone companies.
[23:11] Speaker 4: Optus failed its customers, failed its obligations and needs to
[23:18] Speaker 4: do better.
[23:18] Speaker 8: That advice that Optors gave to both my office and
[23:22] Speaker 8: AKMA on Thursday afternoon was clearly incorrect.
[23:26] Speaker 2: It was inaccurate, and it was misleading.
[23:29] Speaker 4: Optis have failed their customers and they need to be
[23:33] Speaker 4: transparent about these measures. ACMA will certainly make it review.
[23:37] Speaker 3: And their right to be white hot angry with OPTAs
[23:41] Speaker 3: about their catastrophic failure in this situation.
[23:45] Speaker 2: And remember she was losing sleep and all of it,
[23:47] Speaker 2: but then she's a new minute. You remember that up
[23:49] Speaker 2: and down? Well I noticed today duck, egg, zero, buggerall
[23:55] Speaker 2: nothing tumbleweeds about the Victorian government and how its TRIPLEO
[24:00] Speaker 2: system is going.
[24:01] Speaker 1: Now.
[24:02] Speaker 2: Remember before the last Victorian state election, the problems of
[24:05] Speaker 2: the TRIPLEO system led to thirty three deaths, or at
[24:08] Speaker 2: least more than thirty deaths, but they re elected them.
[24:11] Speaker 1: Why what about this story?
[24:14] Speaker 2: Victoria hit with a Triplo critical outage after computer system
[24:18] Speaker 2: crashes due to a power outage. Why what happened? Who
[24:24] Speaker 2: is responsible? Which CEO must be dragged before? Which minister
[24:28] Speaker 2: to be told? Why is there not a backup generator?
[24:33] Speaker 2: This story again described by the Age as triple zero
[24:36] Speaker 2: dispatches forced to.
[24:37] Speaker 1: Use pen and paper during an hour's long outage.
[24:41] Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, the Optus one was outrageous because the
[24:43] Speaker 2: phone wouldn't connect. But this is now regardless of whether
[24:46] Speaker 2: you call from Optus, Telstra, Boost, Ossie, braun Band, Vodaphone, TPG.
[24:54] Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of all of.
[24:55] Speaker 2: Them, right that if you actually got connected to Tripolo,
[24:58] Speaker 2: it'll be hang on just one second.
[25:00] Speaker 1: And hang on.
[25:02] Speaker 2: I got a thing here, Yeah, okay, hang on? Sorry
[25:06] Speaker 2: what okay?
[25:07] Speaker 1: Where are you? Uh huh yep, hang.
[25:10] Speaker 2: On, hang on, just gonna check it. That was a
[25:14] Speaker 2: system that was playing out. That's my producer, by the way,
[25:16] Speaker 2: for that one screen capping. Now, the thing is that
[25:19] Speaker 2: was what was playing out in Victoria yesterday. Unbelievable, right,
[25:26] Speaker 2: The Triple O system, if you got through to it,
[25:28] Speaker 2: was so broken. The same system that previously, when it
[25:31] Speaker 2: is broken, has led to thirty three people losing their
[25:33] Speaker 2: lives has broken again.
[25:37] Speaker 1: And the same government.
[25:39] Speaker 2: Who was re elected promised to make it better. Well,
[25:41] Speaker 2: guess what, it's the same and the same system kills people.
[25:48] Speaker 2: It Will you hear a single person who was blowing
[25:51] Speaker 2: up about optors saying anything about the Victorian government. Of course,
[25:57] Speaker 2: not nothing to see here, minor story. Obviously, the opposition
[26:01] Speaker 2: did their best in Victoria.
[26:02] Speaker 1: Today.
[26:04] Speaker 3: It is a concern that people might not be able
[26:06] Speaker 3: to get through or that cause are delayed because we're
[26:09] Speaker 3: having to rely on pencil and paper in the modern age.
[26:12] Speaker 7: That's just not good enough.
[26:15] Speaker 2: And perhaps even more depressing than the lack of reaction
[26:19] Speaker 2: to this pretty critical situation. Latest opinion poll about the
[26:23] Speaker 2: Victorian election shows Labour gonna win. Can you believe it now?
[26:29] Speaker 1: Again? You know, do you live in Victoria.
[26:31] Speaker 2: You've got to change people's minds here, right, But perhaps
[26:34] Speaker 2: one of the reasons why Labor is always going to
[26:36] Speaker 2: stay in power is because of what I have grilled
[26:40] Speaker 2: as a point, as a design intention of the center
[26:44] Speaker 2: left and particularly in Victoria, is the triangle of dependence.
[26:51] Speaker 2: I mentioning this quickly last night, but I wanted to
[26:53] Speaker 2: take some time here at the top. The reason the
[26:56] Speaker 2: government always gets re elected is because the amount of
[27:00] Speaker 2: people who get welfare from the government, the people employed
[27:03] Speaker 2: by the government, or the people who the government is
[27:05] Speaker 2: the biggest client of the private business means you never
[27:07] Speaker 2: rock the boat. And this fact and this triangle is
[27:12] Speaker 2: being strengthened by the day in Victoria because employer groups
[27:17] Speaker 2: warned the economy that Victoria's economy is in decay, with
[27:20] Speaker 2: nine out of ten jobs created backed by the government.
[27:27] Speaker 2: Triangle of dependence is not just alive in Victoria. It
[27:29] Speaker 2: is so strong that even when the triple o system
[27:34] Speaker 2: may result in people using posted notes and a sticker
[27:39] Speaker 2: and a pen that they found randomly down the back
[27:41] Speaker 2: of a couch in order to send an ambulance to you.
[27:46] Speaker 2: And then when once that ambulance gets to you, you
[27:48] Speaker 2: go to a hospital and you don't go straight into
[27:50] Speaker 2: the hospital because of course there's too many people waiting.
[27:52] Speaker 2: But don't talk about it. Just keep voting, just keep
[27:56] Speaker 2: doing the right thing. Extraordinary, It truly is.
[28:02] Speaker 1: All right.
[28:03] Speaker 2: We haven't done this for a couple of days, and
[28:04] Speaker 2: I know you like it, which is our little look
[28:06] Speaker 2: at some of the nonsense being put up by politicians
[28:08] Speaker 2: on social media. I like to call this while you're working,
[28:10] Speaker 2: because you're working hard, you're paying taxes to help pay
[28:13] Speaker 2: for politicians like this.
[28:17] Speaker 7: Hey, Nick, do you ever use Discord?
[28:19] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[28:20] Speaker 7: Mate, I'm the gaming Senator.
[28:22] Speaker 5: Well, Discord's just had a major data bridge, millions of
[28:25] Speaker 5: users data including age verification documents. You are kidding, not kidding,
[28:31] Speaker 5: and we're still our government is pressing ahead with their
[28:34] Speaker 5: age verification plans. Absolutely cooked policy.
[28:37] Speaker 7: David, We've got to res form this whole idea.
[28:44] Speaker 2: Or politicians like this Guardian better the ear.
[28:48] Speaker 9: Big issue, big thoughts.
[28:50] Speaker 4: Well, I'm thinking that I have to look at the
[28:53] Speaker 4: bush Turkey because they're constantly in my backyard trying.
[28:56] Speaker 9: To get the chickens food.
[28:58] Speaker 1: But I do love the Corolla because they're so cheeky.
[29:00] Speaker 3: How about you? Well, every year I go for the
[29:02] Speaker 3: tawny promo is always the bride'smaid, never the bride.
[29:07] Speaker 8: I was a bridesmaid nine times, so I have some sympathy.
[29:10] Speaker 2: Don't show it, don't show it, don't show it, don't
[29:13] Speaker 2: show it.
[29:14] Speaker 1: Well, this one.
[29:24] Speaker 2: Stop may stop alas we will keep an eye on
[29:26] Speaker 2: them each and every night. A little dose of sanity
[29:29] Speaker 2: we try to deliver before you. At the start of
[29:30] Speaker 2: each and every additional Pulmurray Live, we continue it into
[29:33] Speaker 2: a conversation which we'll get to in one middle two time,
[29:36] Speaker 2: including about the former Premier of Western Australia, Martin mcgow
[29:39] Speaker 2: and charming as ever.
[29:40] Speaker 1: Isn't he such a charmer? We'll wait till your work
[29:42] Speaker 1: out what he did today, and we're going to.
[29:44] Speaker 2: Talk about the politics of marijuana. It matters in Victoria,
[29:49] Speaker 2: unsurprisingly or.
[29:50] Speaker 1: In a second.
[29:56] Speaker 2: So much watch wherever you happen to be. Just responding
[29:58] Speaker 2: to again my producers go, hang, I'm did you just
[30:00] Speaker 2: show most thing? Yes, I did this little thing on
[30:02] Speaker 2: the phone before. Anyway, let us continue with the great
[30:05] Speaker 2: show as always Christian McSweeney is he in a conversation
[30:07] Speaker 2: with none other than Stephen Conroy. They're both here to
[30:10] Speaker 2: help and if you pay real close attention, squint there
[30:12] Speaker 2: in Melbourne, Hello lovelies, love you to see you. So
[30:14] Speaker 2: today we had the Victorian premier doing the lefty mind trick.
[30:19] Speaker 2: There is nothing to see here, there is no problem.
[30:21] Speaker 2: Melbourne is safe wherever you happen to go, morning, noon
[30:23] Speaker 2: or night. And the federal opposition leader is playing the
[30:28] Speaker 2: state opposition leader by talking about crime in Victoria today,
[30:32] Speaker 2: he's some of the back.
[30:32] Speaker 3: And forth Melbourne has gone from the most livable city
[30:37] Speaker 3: to the crime capital of Australia.
[30:39] Speaker 9: That's just purely politics, right. We all remember when the
[30:42] Speaker 9: previous leader of the Opposition, when he was a minister,
[30:46] Speaker 9: he came to town making some of the most outrageous
[30:48] Speaker 9: claims about Melbourne and safety issues in Melbourne. So we're
[30:52] Speaker 9: seeing from the current leader of the Opposition that she's
[30:55] Speaker 9: following this same anti Victorian pattern of behavior.
[30:58] Speaker 2: All right, let me put it this to you, Stephen.
[31:02] Speaker 2: We know crime matters, but does it matter electorally in
[31:05] Speaker 2: Victoria Because I remember before the last election there was
[31:08] Speaker 2: a spike. We know it's got worse in the past
[31:10] Speaker 2: four years. But the triangle of dependence, good luck breaking
[31:13] Speaker 2: that anytime soon.
[31:16] Speaker 10: Well, look, I think the problem for sus knows there's
[31:18] Speaker 10: plenty of federal issues that she should be talking about,
[31:22] Speaker 10: and I think her buying into, you know, clearly a
[31:27] Speaker 10: state government issue, it makes her look a bit silly.
[31:31] Speaker 10: What it does, though, I expose, is just how bad
[31:33] Speaker 10: the Victorian lebrals are taking up and holding a government
[31:38] Speaker 10: to account it all And as we always say, you know,
[31:42] Speaker 10: you get your best government with your best opposition, and
[31:46] Speaker 10: when you've got a government an opposition that is so bad,
[31:50] Speaker 10: then some of the issues that should be dealt with quicker, faster,
[31:54] Speaker 10: stronger tend to not be dealt with in that way.
[31:58] Speaker 10: I mean the issues around I'm Victoria. Clearly the Police
[32:02] Speaker 10: Commissioner has come out and said the new Police Commision said,
[32:05] Speaker 10: my job haslet more cops on the beak. My job
[32:07] Speaker 10: is to reorganize and so that we can deal more
[32:11] Speaker 10: with more uniforms on the street. And that's the Victorian
[32:14] Speaker 10: Police Commission just appointed by the Victorian government. So I
[32:17] Speaker 10: think there is an acknowledgment by the government in a
[32:20] Speaker 10: subtle way that this is an issue that they need
[32:23] Speaker 10: to be firmer and tougher in. They've made bail law changes,
[32:28] Speaker 10: changing the laws around the machetes. People might say they've
[32:32] Speaker 10: done it too slow, but they're starting to move to
[32:36] Speaker 10: quarterize that issue politically, especially with the announcement by the
[32:39] Speaker 10: Victorian Police Commissioner. But Susan the jumping in and just
[32:43] Speaker 10: injury is right to point to Peter Dutton made out
[32:46] Speaker 10: ragious statements.
[32:48] Speaker 2: It wasn't safety go to a restaurant about buying from
[32:53] Speaker 2: five six years ago.
[32:54] Speaker 1: I mean, look, I get it right.
[32:55] Speaker 2: And the reality is when anyone comes into town who
[32:59] Speaker 2: is not of the town, and then we get the
[33:00] Speaker 2: whole carry on. We'll get Tom McGowan in a moment
[33:03] Speaker 2: or two time. But CHRISTI central question, right, central question.
[33:07] Speaker 1: It's a disgrace. What's happening.
[33:09] Speaker 2: It's a disgrace. What's happening when Tripolo is down to
[33:12] Speaker 2: pens and paper and corruption commissions are saying we need
[33:16] Speaker 2: more power, but an opinion poll comes out and tells
[33:19] Speaker 2: us they're on their way back. How the heck does
[33:22] Speaker 2: it keep happening?
[33:26] Speaker 3: Well, Steven's right to say you get your best government
[33:28] Speaker 3: when you get your best opposition. And if that's his
[33:30] Speaker 3: rationale for the state of the governments that we've got
[33:35] Speaker 3: eventually and in Victoria, perhaps perhaps he's right. Because we're
[33:38] Speaker 3: scraping the mud with the government and the opposition. It's
[33:40] Speaker 3: not much further down the puddle. But I will say,
[33:44] Speaker 3: look crime in Victoria, Yes, it is an issue. I've
[33:47] Speaker 3: seen some polling from Redbridge to the polling for the
[33:49] Speaker 3: finn Reviewers saying that it wasn't in that it's a
[33:53] Speaker 3: top five issue, but it wasn't compared to cost of living.
[33:58] Speaker 3: I think it is if you narrow it to Melbourne,
[34:00] Speaker 3: and certainly if you narrow it to the suburbs that
[34:02] Speaker 3: are competitive for the Victorian election. The Coalition is polling
[34:08] Speaker 3: ahead of Labor, but of course Labor has a thirteen
[34:12] Speaker 3: percent green vote on their side. Not to mention here
[34:15] Speaker 3: in Victoria, we have a number of minor parties like
[34:18] Speaker 3: Animal Justice and the Socialist Alliance that got quite a
[34:21] Speaker 3: bit of percentage of the vote that preference to the
[34:23] Speaker 3: left as well. So yes, the Coalition is right to
[34:26] Speaker 3: talk about crime. It is an issue in those seats
[34:28] Speaker 3: that are competitive. But don't be too excited about the
[34:32] Speaker 3: poll results because you can't lift your You really need
[34:35] Speaker 3: to work hard to lift your vote that thirteen to
[34:39] Speaker 3: sixteen percent to counteract the grains and those minor party
[34:42] Speaker 3: preferences that put you ahead of Labor. You don't have
[34:46] Speaker 3: that preference partner on a left or a right flank,
[34:49] Speaker 3: So don't get too excited with chatting about crime Liberal
[34:53] Speaker 3: Party in Victoria. There's a lot of other things to
[34:56] Speaker 3: talk about that we should.
[34:58] Speaker 2: Be completely but it is extraordinary right that anyone who's
[35:03] Speaker 2: aware of how Australian politics has worked for a long
[35:05] Speaker 2: period of time, right, labor, liberal, whatever, right, the concept
[35:09] Speaker 2: of I don't feel safe normally results in some sort
[35:12] Speaker 2: of a change politically the idea of that O. Look,
[35:15] Speaker 2: I don't like it, but I live with it because
[35:17] Speaker 2: the other one's not woke enough. That sort of speaks
[35:19] Speaker 2: to perhaps bigger and deeper issues.
[35:22] Speaker 1: That are going on.
[35:22] Speaker 2: But again, you know, pay free votes, see what happens
[35:24] Speaker 2: all Right, Now, I want to talk about the peace
[35:28] Speaker 2: deal of the past couple of days, right, And while
[35:30] Speaker 2: I understand that some people have heard an awful lot
[35:32] Speaker 2: about all of this over the past couple of days,
[35:34] Speaker 2: there is something a different version of the question that
[35:36] Speaker 2: I want to ask, right, which is, Stephen, is peace
[35:39] Speaker 2: going to hold right now? We don't know, nobody knows, right,
[35:42] Speaker 2: but my feeling is that, look, the celebrations of the
[35:46] Speaker 2: hostages coming home all makes sense. The signing of the
[35:49] Speaker 2: piece deal really important, right because theoretically sort of every
[35:54] Speaker 2: country that rings the area, with the exception of Iran
[35:58] Speaker 2: not an insignificant one, but have all committed to peace,
[36:01] Speaker 2: committed to the rebuilding of all of this really important?
[36:04] Speaker 1: Right?
[36:04] Speaker 2: But we're seeing two things that are happening now, Surprise, surprise,
[36:08] Speaker 2: Hammas didn't do what they promised to do, which was
[36:09] Speaker 2: to return every single hostage, living or dead.
[36:12] Speaker 1: Didn't happen.
[36:14] Speaker 2: And secondly, we're now seeing a scenario where Hamas is
[36:18] Speaker 2: brutally trying to get control back of the streets or
[36:22] Speaker 2: whatever minor dissidents there would be. And then of course
[36:25] Speaker 2: there's the other issues here, which is about the drming
[36:29] Speaker 2: of Hamas well that obviously happens by force and who
[36:32] Speaker 2: is the one who's behind it. So in a week
[36:34] Speaker 2: from now, are we still talking about peace, Stephen, or
[36:37] Speaker 2: are we getting close to some fracture where the only
[36:42] Speaker 2: thing that really changed is people being crossed over the border.
[36:49] Speaker 10: Look, now I struggle to say this given my views
[36:54] Speaker 10: on Donald Trump, but he does deserve congratulations where he's
[36:57] Speaker 10: got the process to even it is a force of
[37:01] Speaker 10: his will that got it to where it is. The
[37:07] Speaker 10: Stage one implemented. The whole world wants the whole plan
[37:12] Speaker 10: Stage two three onwards to succeed. But you can see
[37:17] Speaker 10: that Hamas have got no intention of being part of
[37:23] Speaker 10: Stage two onwards. They only exist to prosecute against the
[37:28] Speaker 10: State of Israel. They will kill any amount of Palestinians.
[37:33] Speaker 10: I mean, I look forward to those next Australian rallies
[37:35] Speaker 10: walking up the streets of Australia going free Palestine from Hamas,
[37:40] Speaker 10: Free Palestine from Hamas, because if they turning up now,
[37:44] Speaker 10: if they're turning up now to protest, and they are
[37:47] Speaker 10: revealing themselves to be fundamentally anti Semitic, they don't really
[37:51] Speaker 10: care about the Palatine Point. They just want the destruction
[37:53] Speaker 10: of the state of Israel.
[37:55] Speaker 1: So I.
[37:58] Speaker 10: Hope Donald Trump's plans were we work words.
[38:01] Speaker 2: Don't ever thought I'd.
[38:02] Speaker 10: Say my life, but I'm barracking for it. But like
[38:06] Speaker 10: all of us were watching these atrocities being committed in
[38:09] Speaker 10: the streets, and again to those protests, say every reasonable
[38:15] Speaker 10: Arab nation is behind this peace plane. There is no
[38:18] Speaker 10: support for Hamas, no support for what Hamas are doing.
[38:21] Speaker 10: But someone's got to put boots on the ground to
[38:24] Speaker 10: enforce the peace, which means they will end up being
[38:29] Speaker 10: in combat with the Hamas fanatics. And that is a
[38:34] Speaker 10: different step from you know, Israel doing it is one thing,
[38:39] Speaker 10: and they've obviously done it successfully, But we need to
[38:42] Speaker 10: see all those moderate Arab states plus others who are
[38:46] Speaker 10: willing to enforce the peace deal on the streets in
[38:53] Speaker 10: Palestine in the Gaza strip.
[38:55] Speaker 2: Now, just before I go, I did mention Mark McGowan,
[38:59] Speaker 2: so I'm going to get to him, which is so okay.
[39:02] Speaker 2: He was at some sort of event rah rah haha.
[39:05] Speaker 2: He's sitting there with Julie Bishop, you know, perfect example
[39:07] Speaker 2: of balance of left and right. But anyway, now let's
[39:10] Speaker 2: talk here. Which is that she said, Oh, you know,
[39:12] Speaker 2: what's the highlight of your career? She says, being the
[39:15] Speaker 2: President of the UN Security Council. Okay, well, being overruled
[39:19] Speaker 2: by Russia, France, China. Anyway, he says that he got
[39:23] Speaker 2: the trifecta and his highlight was that he kept Eddie
[39:27] Speaker 2: McGuire out of Western Australian and he wanted to make
[39:29] Speaker 2: it perfect. He wanted to make it permanent. He also
[39:31] Speaker 2: was able to keep David Kosh out and the former
[39:34] Speaker 2: Prime Minister Scott Morrison. Now, this wanker obviously goes down
[39:39] Speaker 2: well in the room and everyone has a little bit
[39:40] Speaker 2: of a giggle. And I understand the grand cultural difference
[39:42] Speaker 2: between the East and the West, but of course more
[39:44] Speaker 2: than happy for the East Coast states to be sending
[39:47] Speaker 2: their GST. But that can cross a border, but these
[39:50] Speaker 2: three people can't. As a proud Western Australian Christie, you
[39:54] Speaker 2: can say what I'm not allowed to say, because apparently
[39:56] Speaker 2: anyone not born in Western Australia is not allowed to
[39:58] Speaker 2: offer any criticism of of the Emperor.
[40:03] Speaker 3: Paul, Did you just open up argument about the GSTA
[40:06] Speaker 3: with someone from Western Australia as their birthright or national television?
[40:10] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[40:11] Speaker 2: Well, all I know is that when a former labor
[40:13] Speaker 2: staffer offered the current Prime Minister at a press conference
[40:16] Speaker 2: to write it on his arm, I get it. I
[40:19] Speaker 2: know it. But I'm just saying we're more than happy
[40:21] Speaker 2: for GSC. Money can move around nationally in lots of
[40:24] Speaker 2: different directions, but no people can cross the border. During wouflu.
[40:28] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, people died as a result of this. What
[40:31] Speaker 2: a hilarious joke. The blake that the young man who
[40:34] Speaker 2: killed himself because he couldn't get home, What a wonderful
[40:36] Speaker 2: wanker this man is.
[40:37] Speaker 7: All of that?
[40:38] Speaker 3: Please, all of that, And in all seriousness, I did
[40:41] Speaker 3: have friends return from overseas to Western Australia to see
[40:46] Speaker 3: their dying parents and still locked in hotel quarantine, and
[40:52] Speaker 3: there were no exceptions, and I myself did hotel quarantine
[40:55] Speaker 3: and had to show a mock customs that were set
[40:59] Speaker 3: up at Perth Airport passport and which had Western Australia
[41:02] Speaker 3: as my birthplace on it and tell people why I
[41:05] Speaker 3: wanted to enter the state. It was incredibly dystopian, the levels,
[41:09] Speaker 3: the fact that bented into Western Australia.
[41:13] Speaker 2: But it just looks what's what's not mentioned here, but
[41:17] Speaker 2: it's it's there.
[41:18] Speaker 3: Who said he was at Absolutely you said he was
[41:22] Speaker 3: at some event. That event was a Property Council event. Now,
[41:27] Speaker 3: property donations are banned everywhere else in Australia, not in
[41:31] Speaker 3: Western Australia. That's because the Labor Government under Mark McGowan
[41:35] Speaker 3: and to this day still under the Cook government won't
[41:38] Speaker 3: ban them. And in fact McGowan has gone and got
[41:40] Speaker 3: himself on the board of several property companies and fronts
[41:44] Speaker 3: up to the Property Council event. That also is a
[41:47] Speaker 3: bit of an in joke in Western Australia to go
[41:49] Speaker 3: with the COVID gag.
[41:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, well again, look again forgive me being able to
[41:54] Speaker 2: offer an opinion on an entire country. But the last
[41:56] Speaker 2: last time I checked, we are still one. Thank you
[41:59] Speaker 2: guys to appreciable, so you again very soon again. I
[42:01] Speaker 2: just the downside is the fact that these guys are
[42:05] Speaker 2: just they can waft in and out of these things
[42:07] Speaker 2: and do a gag I mentioned of Scott Morrison to
[42:10] Speaker 2: all the outrage. Anyway, you know how it works. Analyst
[42:12] Speaker 2: Neilson standing by for us in the United States. She
[42:15] Speaker 2: will steady the ship and bring a smile to all
[42:17] Speaker 2: about faces more in a moment here for Marie Life.
[42:19] Speaker 1: Thanks for watching.
[42:25] Speaker 2: Wonderful Analyst Neilson joins us now from the United States,
[42:28] Speaker 2: so much to discuss about what is taking place there.
[42:30] Speaker 2: It's like three o'clock in the morning, and I appreciate
[42:33] Speaker 2: you being up very early because as we go this
[42:36] Speaker 2: way with the clock, you go that way with the clock,
[42:38] Speaker 2: and you're getting colder as we roll on. So love
[42:41] Speaker 2: you to see you, mate, Love you to see you
[42:42] Speaker 2: all right now, something that might be an interest to
[42:45] Speaker 2: Australian viewers is to actually start to look forward about
[42:48] Speaker 2: a week when the Prime Minister is going to be
[42:50] Speaker 2: in Washington. Now, my view is anyone who is expecting
[42:54] Speaker 2: a Zelenski style dressing down with his arms being torn
[42:58] Speaker 2: off and being yell that it ain't going to happen,
[43:01] Speaker 2: all right. My view is that the Prime Minister knows
[43:04] Speaker 2: how to walk in and suck up. The President knows
[43:07] Speaker 2: how to sit back and take it. So I don't
[43:09] Speaker 2: expect any blow up in the Oval office. What are
[43:12] Speaker 2: you hearing about how the Americans are getting ready, if
[43:16] Speaker 2: at all, for this meeting next week.
[43:20] Speaker 8: Look, the sense I'm getting is this is very much
[43:22] Speaker 8: a checkbox exercise for the Americans. They've heard us really
[43:25] Speaker 8: complaining for a long time that we haven't been getting
[43:28] Speaker 8: this face to face meeting, that we haven't been getting
[43:30] Speaker 8: the love we got used to under the Biden administration,
[43:33] Speaker 8: that's for sure. And I think there was the initial
[43:36] Speaker 8: hesitation from the alban Easy side early on because of
[43:39] Speaker 8: that blow up. You don't know with Donald Trump, it
[43:42] Speaker 8: doesn't seem like that's on the cards at all. But
[43:45] Speaker 8: if he does say the wrong thing and it's the
[43:47] Speaker 8: wrong day, Trump doesn't hold back, and so I think
[43:50] Speaker 8: that's been the risk that they've been trying to mitigate
[43:52] Speaker 8: for some time. I think they're coming in pretty good,
[43:55] Speaker 8: having the Orchestra review come out as a pretty non
[43:59] Speaker 8: consequential moment in that agreement. But I think the important
[44:04] Speaker 8: thing for Albanesi is that he comes in and he
[44:06] Speaker 8: is deferential, but he does acknowledge that Orcast started under
[44:10] Speaker 8: the Trump administration, all those negotiations, and it was signed,
[44:14] Speaker 8: it was put into action by the Biden ad men,
[44:16] Speaker 8: but it doesn't mean it wasn't originally born under Trump.
[44:20] Speaker 8: I hope he's quite acknowledging of just what he's achieved
[44:23] Speaker 8: in the Middle East, because that was what we all wanted.
[44:26] Speaker 8: So he should be very happy that they've got this agreement.
[44:30] Speaker 8: And so I think it is a very quick trip.
[44:33] Speaker 8: I've been told just time and again Australia is not
[44:35] Speaker 8: a problem child. So that's why we don't get the attention.
[44:38] Speaker 8: And so that's kind of the sense I'm getting.
[44:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll get a bit of a sense that it's
[44:42] Speaker 2: going to be part of a busy day. It's certainly
[44:43] Speaker 2: not a repeat of the state visit where it was
[44:46] Speaker 2: multiple things in the back and forth and then let's
[44:48] Speaker 2: you know, and sort of the clinking of glasses that
[44:51] Speaker 2: happened with Morrison and Trump and with Albanezi and Biten. Okay,
[44:55] Speaker 2: and of course when eventually the media is around, Yes,
[44:58] Speaker 2: there'll be a couple of people that will want to
[44:59] Speaker 2: ask specific questions, probably from Australia's side, trying to get
[45:02] Speaker 2: a blow up happening. Reality is, most of the American
[45:05] Speaker 2: report is if that is the opportunity to talk to him,
[45:07] Speaker 2: they're going to talk about the government shutdown, because it
[45:09] Speaker 2: still is shutdown. It may be fixed in the next
[45:12] Speaker 2: couple of days. Likelihood that it's done in the next
[45:14] Speaker 2: five days, I don't know, we'll all find out together.
[45:17] Speaker 2: But that is actually the context in which the next
[45:20] Speaker 2: few days of American politics plays out, isn't it, Which
[45:22] Speaker 2: is about whether the government works or not, is open
[45:25] Speaker 2: or not?
[45:28] Speaker 8: Oh yeah, And look, this isn't going anywhere. Both sides
[45:31] Speaker 8: aren't talking to each other. And the problem is for
[45:33] Speaker 8: the Republicans and the Democrats. It's playing well for both
[45:36] Speaker 8: of them within their own bases. They're both blaming each
[45:38] Speaker 8: other and their supporters believe them, so there's really no
[45:40] Speaker 8: impetus for them to be coming back to the negotiating
[45:43] Speaker 8: table right now. Trump's enjoying having this moment because he's
[45:46] Speaker 8: doing a whole bunch of cuts and no one's doing
[45:48] Speaker 8: anything about it. He's cut twenty eight billion dollars worth
[45:51] Speaker 8: of contracts to different Democrat counties and states. So it's
[45:54] Speaker 8: a bit of an own goal on their side for
[45:56] Speaker 8: that part. But for the Democrats, they have nothing else
[45:59] Speaker 8: right now, They have no in the House and Senate.
[46:01] Speaker 8: This is the only thing they can dig their heels
[46:03] Speaker 8: in on. And for the most part, it's really just
[46:06] Speaker 8: government workers around places like DC that are suffering, and
[46:09] Speaker 8: so we haven't seen the kind of broader shutdowns that
[46:12] Speaker 8: we saw under the Obama administrations. That'll be going for
[46:15] Speaker 8: some time, and I think the press we'll be asking
[46:16] Speaker 8: about Russia Ukraine too. Now that the Middle East is sorted.
[46:20] Speaker 8: It seems like that's going to be the next focus.
[46:22] Speaker 8: Trump you said, get this done in one day, or
[46:23] Speaker 8: what's happening? And then the other thing will be this
[46:26] Speaker 8: is still going about getting the hostage remains back from Gaza,
[46:29] Speaker 8: and that's likely to escalate in the next few days.
[46:32] Speaker 8: And Trump's threatening force if US doesn't disarm and get
[46:35] Speaker 8: their act together to get these remains back. So I
[46:38] Speaker 8: think that'll be blowing up around the same time as well.
[46:40] Speaker 2: All right, Now, one that is very inside baseball, but
[46:42] Speaker 2: it really matters, right The Pentagon is introducing these weird
[46:48] Speaker 2: new rules that basically say you can't get a pass
[46:50] Speaker 2: to get inside the building to talk to anyone series
[46:55] Speaker 2: unless you agree to a whole bunch of stuff. What
[46:57] Speaker 2: are they trying to get people to do, because I
[46:59] Speaker 2: know basically one including Fox News are saying no, that's
[47:02] Speaker 2: too much.
[47:05] Speaker 8: Yeah, and Secretary of War now for the Department of
[47:10] Speaker 8: War when he came in, when they came in. When
[47:16] Speaker 8: he came in, he really cracked down on this initially
[47:19] Speaker 8: by taking away just physical space from outlets that he
[47:23] Speaker 8: saw as being anti American. And that's a big deal
[47:27] Speaker 8: for journalists when you're covering that round. You should have
[47:30] Speaker 8: like a landing spot where you can do your work
[47:32] Speaker 8: and then you can go out and meet with people
[47:34] Speaker 8: and have those conversations and being in the room, get
[47:36] Speaker 8: being in the building, you get that sense of who
[47:38] Speaker 8: you're talking to and everything. And so he'd already done
[47:41] Speaker 8: that crackdown and everyone kind of just grinned and bared it,
[47:44] Speaker 8: and so this is such a next level to say.
[47:46] Speaker 8: I think essentially the really bad part was you can't
[47:50] Speaker 8: solicit any information that's not verified to be released. And
[47:56] Speaker 8: that's really quite extraordinary because what does that even mean?
[48:00] Speaker 8: The thing that they could do with that is just
[48:01] Speaker 8: come down on anyone hard. And also I think it
[48:05] Speaker 8: was just very unclear about what the retribution would be
[48:08] Speaker 8: if you breach that, and that's really a scary thing
[48:10] Speaker 8: for someone to be signing up for in a defense space.
[48:14] Speaker 8: And look, Americans have the right to know the world,
[48:17] Speaker 8: has the right to know what the policy decisions are
[48:20] Speaker 8: that have been made there and the billions of dollars
[48:22] Speaker 8: of tax payer money they spend. So yeah, I think
[48:25] Speaker 8: this is Hagsith kind of fronting up. And this is
[48:28] Speaker 8: the first time we've really seen all the press start
[48:31] Speaker 8: to push back.
[48:32] Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean, it's just such a regime.
[48:34] Speaker 2: I mean, it's just democracy's ending. And you know that's
[48:37] Speaker 2: the MSNBC view of things. I know that you've spent
[48:40] Speaker 2: a lot of time in America when that's great, But.
[48:42] Speaker 1: I'm with you.
[48:43] Speaker 2: I agree with you.
[48:43] Speaker 1: It's ridiculous, right.
[48:44] Speaker 2: I mean also, you know, but Hanger wouldn't an official
[48:47] Speaker 2: source be the signal chat that he was in. Remember
[48:51] Speaker 2: when they were going after the hoodies a little bit.
[48:54] Speaker 8: Earl Elysa doesn't land Well, yeah, it's like coming out.
[48:57] Speaker 7: By the way guys work.
[48:58] Speaker 2: I know you've spent a lot of time in a
[48:59] Speaker 2: Maryora could refer to a workspace or an office as
[49:02] Speaker 2: a landing spot, a very American term. And I love it,
[49:06] Speaker 2: I love it, we love you.
[49:07] Speaker 8: That's very military, isn't it.
[49:08] Speaker 2: Landing spot?
[49:09] Speaker 1: Well, thank you, ma'am.
[49:10] Speaker 2: All right, we stand to attention missus Mattel as always.
[49:13] Speaker 2: Thank you. We'll see you very Seve. Good on your
[49:15] Speaker 2: mate at least Nielsen. They're our mate in the United States. Right,
[49:18] Speaker 2: quick break back with war here on Paul murray Law.
[49:25] Speaker 2: That is our cheffin, and I thank you very much
[49:27] Speaker 2: for watching a reminder about Bell Connry. If you'd like
[49:30] Speaker 2: to join us Sunday night for our town.
[49:32] Speaker 1: It is ourtown.
[49:32] Speaker 2: It'sky News dot com dot au. I promised Frayer, I'll
[49:35] Speaker 2: give you nineteen seconds back tomorrow night.

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