# Paul Murray Live | 15 July

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 15 Jul 2026, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/28eb7f88-12fb-4bd5-bed4-b48800cee62f/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Business chiefs demand Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan to call a royal commission into the ‘rotten’ building industry, Anthony Albanese announces sweeping AI reforms. Plus, calls for the government to cut tobacco excise intensify. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live, fascinating stuff.
[0:06] Speaker 2: Welcome on the mank where it is opinion and heart
[0:09] Speaker 2: opinion where we have on lots of issues here this evening.
[0:12] Speaker 2: My name's Paul Murray. Thank you very much for watching.
[0:14] Speaker 2: A reminder not this Sunday. Next Sunday is the start
[0:17] Speaker 2: of what is going to be a very big week
[0:18] Speaker 2: here at sky News. The last day of us as
[0:22] Speaker 2: sky News will be celebrating with our town in Armadale.
[0:25] Speaker 2: If you would like to join us, please do so.
[0:27] Speaker 2: Come to the Central West, New South Wales, join us
[0:30] Speaker 2: in the New England Sunday, the twenty sixth of July. Please,
[0:34] Speaker 2: spots are limited. There's about twenty left, so get in now. Okay,
[0:37] Speaker 2: don't wait. Ourtown at sky news dot com dot you,
[0:39] Speaker 2: ourtown at skynews dot com dot you. The next day,
[0:41] Speaker 2: sky News becomes News twenty four. The night after, Pauline
[0:44] Speaker 2: Hanson will be taking questions and a please Explain session.
[0:48] Speaker 2: It's the latest version of Ask Me Anything. It'll be
[0:51] Speaker 2: her in the studio, live studio audience plus questions around
[0:54] Speaker 2: the country. So it is one heck of a week
[0:56] Speaker 2: that starts not this but next Sunday without Now, first
[1:01] Speaker 2: the scandal that is the big build in Victoria. It
[1:05] Speaker 2: has gone on for too long, it has cost way
[1:08] Speaker 2: too much money, and apparently corruption may well have affected
[1:11] Speaker 2: something like fifteen billion dollars in the overall blowout in
[1:15] Speaker 2: the cost to the Victorian taxpayer.
[1:18] Speaker 1: But if you ask the premiere and.
[1:20] Speaker 3: So whether it's a hospital, school or a tunnel, we
[1:24] Speaker 3: have seen that through inflationary pressures. Inflationary pressures that includes
[1:29] Speaker 3: the supply of materials and also worker wages, they've gone
[1:34] Speaker 3: up over the past twelve years, and that also includes
[1:37] Speaker 3: the period of the pandemic. Now that's not corruption, that's inflation.
[1:43] Speaker 2: That's not fifteen billion dollars sixty minutes. Their reporter and
[1:48] Speaker 2: Nick mackenzie has been on it and many many times
[1:52] Speaker 2: has gone back to the world because it is the
[1:53] Speaker 2: story that keeps on reporting the allegations of the money trail,
[1:57] Speaker 2: an example of which would be.
[1:59] Speaker 4: This, despite Tony Chacconi's denials.
[2:03] Speaker 1: He has paid me Gatto more than.
[2:05] Speaker 4: Thirty times, over one million dollars in total, with multiple
[2:10] Speaker 4: payments in twenty twenty six. We've also learned Chacconi is
[2:15] Speaker 4: one of at least two big billed Gatto payers who've
[2:19] Speaker 4: separately made donations and other payments totaling tens of thousands
[2:24] Speaker 4: of dollars to the Victorian Labor.
[2:26] Speaker 1: Party and the CFMAU. But why would they do that.
[2:31] Speaker 5: We'll have a guess it's for exactly the same reason.
[2:35] Speaker 5: The point is that they want the connections with the
[2:37] Speaker 5: Labor Party the same way that they wanted with the CFMU.
[2:41] Speaker 5: There's a strong connection between the Labor Party, the CFMU
[2:44] Speaker 5: and the building industry.
[2:45] Speaker 2: Well left, right and center, regardless of how people plan
[2:48] Speaker 2: to vote in November, yet again, a vital opportunity for
[2:51] Speaker 2: Victoria to save itself or keep the pain going for
[2:55] Speaker 2: another four years. An extreme majority want a royal commission.
[3:00] Speaker 2: In the Resolve political monitor published in the Age, seventy
[3:04] Speaker 2: one percent of people want a royal commission into the
[3:08] Speaker 2: big build into the CFMEU. Jess Wilson, of course, has
[3:13] Speaker 2: been on this program saying that it will be one
[3:14] Speaker 2: of the first orders of business if she becomes Premier
[3:17] Speaker 2: by the end of the year.
[3:18] Speaker 1: Today she repeated it.
[3:21] Speaker 6: So I say to Victorians, the Premier might want to
[3:23] Speaker 6: grind it out, but I know you don't. You want change,
[3:27] Speaker 6: You want to clean up the crime and corruption in
[3:28] Speaker 6: this state. And that's exactly what I will do. I
[3:31] Speaker 6: will implement a royal commission. I will clean up Victoria
[3:35] Speaker 6: and ensure that taxpayer money is respected.
[3:38] Speaker 2: Now, if nothing nothing else comes out of the Victorian election,
[3:41] Speaker 2: the circuit breaker that is needed is a change of government.
[3:45] Speaker 2: At virtually every level of Victorian bureaucracy, there's a thing
[3:49] Speaker 2: called gray corruption. Now this is not about money changing hands,
[3:53] Speaker 2: but it's about any and every opportunity over the past
[3:55] Speaker 2: thirty years for a job to be appointed by the
[3:57] Speaker 2: government has some sort of connection back to the government.
[4:01] Speaker 1: That's not my theory.
[4:02] Speaker 2: That's the theory of the former ombudsman who has come
[4:05] Speaker 2: out very publicly, and I'll get to her comments in
[4:07] Speaker 2: a moment or two time. But the reference to grinding
[4:10] Speaker 2: it out is a reference again to a headline story
[4:14] Speaker 2: about the internals inside the Labor Party that, of course,
[4:18] Speaker 2: the government is the one that can call a royal commission.
[4:21] Speaker 2: It is that government that will choose the terms of references,
[4:24] Speaker 2: and it would be the government that would ultimately pick
[4:27] Speaker 2: the person who would look at it. But even if
[4:29] Speaker 2: you were trying to skew that process, you couldn't because
[4:32] Speaker 2: even somebody with a remit to look the other way
[4:35] Speaker 2: would of course see what everyone else can. It goes
[4:39] Speaker 2: on to say that resisting the calls from integrity experts
[4:42] Speaker 2: and a push within Labour's own parliamentary ranks to establish
[4:45] Speaker 2: an independent, well resourced inquiry, the Victorian Premier told a
[4:48] Speaker 2: meeting of a front bench at the start of the
[4:52] Speaker 2: month that royal commissions were not an effective way to
[4:54] Speaker 2: bring about cultural change. This is the reason why seven
[4:58] Speaker 2: out of ten people are not getting what the state
[5:01] Speaker 2: and the country demands, and that's a royal commission where
[5:04] Speaker 2: there is nowhere to hide. Three sources who attended the
[5:07] Speaker 2: meeting and are not permitted to speak publicly said that
[5:12] Speaker 2: there was a cabinet debate but it was promptly shut down.
[5:15] Speaker 2: One to three ministers. Well, they of course said that
[5:19] Speaker 2: the Premier was doing the right thing. This was not
[5:21] Speaker 2: the way to bring around cultural change.
[5:23] Speaker 1: So it never got out of first gear.
[5:25] Speaker 2: Seven out of ten wanted, but the government, knowing what
[5:29] Speaker 2: it will discover, is trying to grind it out. A
[5:34] Speaker 2: minister president at the meeting said the premiers key message
[5:36] Speaker 2: to colleagues was we've got to grind this out again
[5:40] Speaker 2: the argument of the person who claims it's not corruption,
[5:43] Speaker 2: it's inflation that has cost the Victorian taxpayers fifteen billion dollars.
[5:48] Speaker 2: This is not to build it. This is the on
[5:51] Speaker 2: top of right, let alone all of the other allegations,
[5:54] Speaker 2: let alone everything that has been exposed in the media
[5:57] Speaker 2: and is known about this project. The Premier again holding
[6:03] Speaker 2: to this line of no royal commission because you see
[6:06] Speaker 2: her game is that if she can survive the parliamentary
[6:10] Speaker 2: process until parliament rises, then she gets to hold onto
[6:13] Speaker 2: her job by frankly scaring Victoria about one nation and
[6:17] Speaker 2: the Liberal Party, hoping that everyone in Victoria will simply
[6:20] Speaker 2: forget about the reality of administration under the Labor Party
[6:25] Speaker 2: with both her and Daniel Andrews.
[6:28] Speaker 3: Now again, there are bodies, independent agencies who have the
[6:33] Speaker 3: ability to investigate these matters.
[6:36] Speaker 2: And dn'tver forget when it comes to the Corruption Commission
[6:41] Speaker 2: that Premier her Treasurer effectively cut the funding to that organization.
[6:47] Speaker 2: By their own admission, they are saying because they don't
[6:50] Speaker 2: have the resources, they can't do the inquiries, which of
[6:52] Speaker 2: course means too many continue to get off scott free.
[6:56] Speaker 2: The divide in Victoria is no longer left and right.
[6:59] Speaker 2: It is like it is around the country. If you
[7:00] Speaker 2: are paying attention, there is only one possible outcome of
[7:04] Speaker 2: this upcoming Victorian election, and that is that there's got
[7:08] Speaker 2: to be a circuit breaker. If you're not paying attention, well,
[7:10] Speaker 2: then of course you'll be dazzled by the work from
[7:13] Speaker 2: Home debate, told lies about one nation and the Libs
[7:18] Speaker 2: and their evil plans for cut cut, cut, cut, cut,
[7:20] Speaker 2: in all the usual garbage. Again, my appeal to Victorians
[7:23] Speaker 2: is the same as four years ago, and the same
[7:25] Speaker 2: as four years ago and the same as four years before.
[7:27] Speaker 2: That you deserve better, You're worth better. There is a
[7:32] Speaker 2: chance to find better. The opportunity comes in November. The
[7:36] Speaker 2: government simply thinks they can grind it out. Fifteen billion
[7:40] Speaker 2: dollars up in smoke. The reporting couldn't be clearer and
[7:44] Speaker 2: the choice couldn't be more obvious about what certainly the
[7:49] Speaker 2: Victorian Labor Party needs to do. But as if they
[7:51] Speaker 2: care what I think, but hopefully they care what you
[7:53] Speaker 2: think if you're watching us in Victoria tonight. Meantime, as
[7:58] Speaker 2: I mentioned before, the former boss of the Corruption Commission
[8:00] Speaker 2: in Victoria, the former ombudsman in Victoria. Knowing how the
[8:04] Speaker 2: system works, they too have said let's have a royal commission.
[8:07] Speaker 2: They are with the seventy one percent of people, including
[8:10] Speaker 2: by the way majority of Labor voters in Victoria, who
[8:13] Speaker 2: say we need the Royal commission. Business today has said
[8:16] Speaker 2: they need the Royal Commission, the Premier, the political staff
[8:22] Speaker 2: and what's left off. I stand with Dan Will they
[8:24] Speaker 2: just say grind it out. It doesn't matter, unbelievable. Integrity
[8:27] Speaker 2: only matters when it applies to the other side, not
[8:30] Speaker 2: your side. And speaking of there is a window of
[8:35] Speaker 2: opportunity for the Labor Party to potentially save itself from
[8:38] Speaker 2: the worst version of what might be coming in November,
[8:41] Speaker 2: and that is to get rid of the anchor that
[8:43] Speaker 2: is the Premier. Now, there's been a lot of reporting
[8:48] Speaker 2: in the past couple of days about a whole series
[8:50] Speaker 2: of polls, but there is one pole in particular that's
[8:52] Speaker 2: worth talking about here. It's been done by Trades Hall,
[8:55] Speaker 2: the union movement, the very machine of Labor, the working
[9:00] Speaker 2: part of the Labor Party, and it has shown a
[9:03] Speaker 2: three way contest one nation at twenty seven percent, Labour
[9:07] Speaker 2: twenty six percent, the Libs of twenty six percent, the
[9:09] Speaker 2: Greens at thirteen and other at eight. Now put simply,
[9:14] Speaker 2: the reality of the maths here is that you can
[9:16] Speaker 2: see with the Liberal and One Nation vote there's clearly
[9:20] Speaker 2: more than fifty percent that are ready for the change.
[9:23] Speaker 2: The question, of course is who ends up on top.
[9:26] Speaker 2: If it's the Liberals that end up on top, will
[9:27] Speaker 2: the preference discipline be there for One Nation voters or
[9:31] Speaker 2: will part of them go back to Labor. Again, if
[9:33] Speaker 2: you are telling a Polster you're willing to break up
[9:35] Speaker 2: with the government, you need to do it not just
[9:37] Speaker 2: with what you do with number one, but where you
[9:39] Speaker 2: put number two. And there is a move on right
[9:42] Speaker 2: now amongst those who can see what is coming to
[9:46] Speaker 2: try to do something about it. Reporting this evening that
[9:49] Speaker 2: is worth telling you about from the Australian Financial Review
[9:52] Speaker 2: is that this polling, which again doesn't come from the
[9:54] Speaker 2: far right, doesn't come from outside the tent, it comes
[9:56] Speaker 2: from inside the tent, says that Labor and the Coalition
[10:00] Speaker 2: would be reduced to just twenty five seats in the
[10:03] Speaker 2: Victorian Parliament. One Nation could get as many as nineteen
[10:06] Speaker 2: if a state election were held today, Underscoring the seismic
[10:09] Speaker 2: shift of politics. Ahead of the November State Pole, the
[10:12] Speaker 2: Tradeshall Commission poll show that Labor was likely to finish
[10:15] Speaker 2: on top on election nineteen two and seventy two of
[10:20] Speaker 2: the eighty eight seats that's sorry finished in the top two.
[10:24] Speaker 2: So either they win or they're the ones that will
[10:26] Speaker 2: be beaten by coalition or one nation Coalition likely to
[10:30] Speaker 2: finished in the top two in forty nine seats, and
[10:32] Speaker 2: given that the election is shaping a genuine three way contest,
[10:35] Speaker 2: the Pole also presented scenarios in which each party would
[10:39] Speaker 2: end up in the top three, highlighting the importance of
[10:41] Speaker 2: preference flows. So again, if you are somebody who wants
[10:45] Speaker 2: to change the government, you cannot preference the government. The
[10:48] Speaker 2: government has to go last, yes, even after the Greens.
[10:55] Speaker 2: That is the only way to guarantee a change of government,
[10:58] Speaker 2: a circuit breaker, opportunity for great corruption to be blown
[11:02] Speaker 2: away and for a serious royal commission to go into
[11:06] Speaker 2: what is an absolute disgrace the big build and the
[11:09] Speaker 2: politicians that have looked the other way while plenty have
[11:13] Speaker 2: got away with an unspeakable crime against the taxpayers of
[11:19] Speaker 2: the city and the state that they apparently love. Meantime,
[11:23] Speaker 2: got to stick with Victoria here for a second, because
[11:25] Speaker 2: I can't pretend it's not a problem for the Libs,
[11:28] Speaker 2: because of course More Redeeming.
[11:29] Speaker 1: It just keeps ongoing, It just keeps on going. Now,
[11:33] Speaker 1: More Redeeming.
[11:33] Speaker 2: You remember the CCTV footage that came out the police
[11:37] Speaker 2: suggesting that there was no evidence of a crime being
[11:43] Speaker 2: committed here.
[11:44] Speaker 1: Well, as you know, courts have been involved.
[11:47] Speaker 2: The Liberal Party obviously wants to say and rule a
[11:50] Speaker 2: line under this and go win, lose or draw. You're
[11:52] Speaker 2: not coming around for another run after the next election.
[11:55] Speaker 2: ABC reports that More Redeeming is written to the Liberal
[11:57] Speaker 2: state executive trying to hold on to her candidacy.
[12:01] Speaker 1: Remember, of course, she.
[12:01] Speaker 2: Lost pre selection and then the person who won the
[12:03] Speaker 2: pre selection fell over, so she ended up getting preselection
[12:06] Speaker 2: again by default. In a statement of the party state
[12:09] Speaker 2: executive this week, Miss Deming continued to allege that she
[12:12] Speaker 2: was grabbed, held and pulled with force that caused me
[12:15] Speaker 2: pain and distress. Miss Deming has accepted that mister guy
[12:19] Speaker 2: did not put her in a headlock, but said she
[12:21] Speaker 2: would not apologize for making the allegation in good faith.
[12:25] Speaker 2: Now she claims that all of this was supposed to
[12:27] Speaker 2: happen behind closed doors. I cannot apologize for using the
[12:30] Speaker 2: party's confidential complaint process. I should not be subject to
[12:34] Speaker 2: public vilification or professional retaliation for doing so all the
[12:39] Speaker 2: HR buzz words. In her letter, she proposed a joint
[12:43] Speaker 2: statement in which the party would make very clear that
[12:47] Speaker 2: mister Guy's actions were only ever intended as a friendly
[12:51] Speaker 2: gesture in a noisy environment.
[12:55] Speaker 1: I should, of course point out.
[12:56] Speaker 2: About the CCTV wasn't talking about evidence, so we're just
[12:58] Speaker 2: suggesting no further investor gation. My apologies not realizing that
[13:03] Speaker 2: misdeeming who has PTSD was experiencing pain, fear or distress.
[13:08] Speaker 2: It's pretty obvious what the Liberal Party wants to do.
[13:10] Speaker 2: It's pretty obvious that a party, a club, whatever club
[13:13] Speaker 2: that may be, has the right to decide if you
[13:15] Speaker 2: continue on as a member or not. But until that
[13:17] Speaker 2: is solved, there is again a question mark about whether
[13:20] Speaker 2: there will be a change of government in Victoria. And
[13:23] Speaker 2: for mine, the need for the change in Victoria is
[13:26] Speaker 2: greater than any one individual who may be standing in
[13:29] Speaker 2: the way of willweight watching sea together.
[13:31] Speaker 1: But the process rolls on now when it comes to mass.
[13:35] Speaker 2: Migration, and there are many who are offended by the
[13:38] Speaker 2: idea or pretend that I'm trying to speak code. Let
[13:41] Speaker 2: me spay very clearly what I'm saying. Since this government
[13:45] Speaker 2: came to power, hundreds of thousands, nay more than a
[13:47] Speaker 2: million people have come into the country. Nine to only
[13:50] Speaker 2: six eighteen million people lived in Australia. Now it's twenty
[13:52] Speaker 2: eight million people. By the next forty years or so.
[13:55] Speaker 2: The expectation is that that goes up to forty million.
[13:59] Speaker 2: We'll just keep doubling and doubling and doubling and doubling
[14:01] Speaker 2: and doubling, and it's all great.
[14:02] Speaker 1: It's all wonderful for culture.
[14:05] Speaker 7: Now.
[14:05] Speaker 2: Of course I don't speak about it from diversity is
[14:09] Speaker 2: our strength or a fight against diversity is our strength.
[14:11] Speaker 2: But we're always told that the reason why every single
[14:14] Speaker 2: potential que in our society from a rental place to
[14:18] Speaker 2: when you call triple O needs to extend because it's
[14:22] Speaker 2: great for the country. You know, we have a simple
[14:26] Speaker 2: reality that if you're talking about building houses, twenty eight
[14:30] Speaker 2: percent of people in building and plumbing worker born overseas.
[14:34] Speaker 8: In the economy. One of the ways that we're dealing
[14:37] Speaker 8: with that is in skilled.
[14:38] Speaker 9: Migration, construction apprentices, and there is a responsible role for
[14:43] Speaker 9: skilled migration in that as well.
[14:46] Speaker 2: But as I have told you, regardless of what they say,
[14:49] Speaker 2: is the reason why more people need to come in
[14:51] Speaker 2: this year as opposed to last year, and more next
[14:54] Speaker 2: year than the year after.
[14:55] Speaker 1: And when you look back in five years, it's million people,
[14:58] Speaker 1: and when it's ten years it's two million people. What happened?
[15:00] Speaker 1: Where did all this happen?
[15:02] Speaker 2: Well, the reality is, of course, it is all about
[15:04] Speaker 2: the federal budget. Now I've told you this for years,
[15:07] Speaker 2: and while people want to pretend that I'm dog whistling
[15:09] Speaker 2: or being a racist or making some sort of special
[15:12] Speaker 2: statement about people from other countries, anyone who's paid attention
[15:15] Speaker 2: to me over the many many years we've been together,
[15:18] Speaker 2: you know that my concern is about the numbers, not
[15:21] Speaker 2: about the makeup. That's the reality. Well, the Parliamentary Budget Office,
[15:25] Speaker 2: who've been on fire this week, well they have.
[15:27] Speaker 1: Built the cats.
[15:28] Speaker 2: They have told the truth that the reason why they
[15:31] Speaker 2: always go for higher migration is because they want more tax.
[15:36] Speaker 2: And they want more tax because as the population gets bigger,
[15:40] Speaker 2: the population gets older and the population gets more expensive.
[15:43] Speaker 2: So for every one person who moves into retirement you
[15:47] Speaker 2: need two people to be able to pay for themselves
[15:50] Speaker 2: and to pay for the person who is now retired.
[15:53] Speaker 2: And according to the Parliamentary Budget Office, any cuts to
[15:56] Speaker 2: Australia's overseas migration intake will cost the federal budgets bottom line,
[16:00] Speaker 2: the country deeper into debt or don't you love it,
[16:02] Speaker 2: debt matters now, So to avoid a trillion dollars becoming
[16:07] Speaker 2: at one and a half trillion dollars or two trillion dollars,
[16:09] Speaker 2: which it's going to anyway, because we're in budget deficit
[16:13] Speaker 2: until the twenty sixties. That's according to the Intergenerational Report
[16:16] Speaker 2: that I've talked about a lot. I repeat a lot
[16:18] Speaker 2: of this stuff because you've got to it matters. They
[16:22] Speaker 2: bet that you will change the subject, complicating the equation
[16:27] Speaker 2: for political parties as they promised to significantly slow the
[16:29] Speaker 2: flow of migrants into the country.
[16:31] Speaker 1: Let's get into the numbers.
[16:32] Speaker 2: Fresh costings released from the Independent Parliamentary Budget Office today
[16:37] Speaker 2: sorry yesterday, show the budget's underlying cash balance would improve
[16:41] Speaker 2: by eighty billion dollars in a decade if we increase
[16:45] Speaker 2: the number of migrants by forty thousand a year. Now
[16:48] Speaker 2: there was three hundred thousand last year, So we're talking
[16:51] Speaker 2: three hundred and forty thousand next year, next year, next year,
[16:55] Speaker 2: next year, next year, over the next ten years, and unsurprisingly,
[17:00] Speaker 2: the forty thousand a year becomes four hundred thousand on
[17:04] Speaker 2: top of all of those other numbers that are there.
[17:08] Speaker 2: But if you cut migration by forty thousand, then you
[17:10] Speaker 2: deteriorate the budget bottom line by seventy nine billion dollars.
[17:16] Speaker 2: And remember how I've often told you that one of
[17:18] Speaker 2: the reasons why they want somebody to come in who
[17:21] Speaker 2: is at working age rather than someone in your family
[17:25] Speaker 2: having a baby, is that the government doesn't get tax
[17:28] Speaker 2: from babies. Yet, they don't get tax from toddlers. They
[17:31] Speaker 2: don't get tax from kids, they don't get tax from
[17:34] Speaker 2: high school students. They don't even get tax from university
[17:37] Speaker 2: students unless, of course they're working. And if they're earning
[17:40] Speaker 2: under forty thousand dollars or fifty thousand dollars, now they
[17:44] Speaker 2: don't get any tax whatsoever. Thinks the tax free threshold.
[17:47] Speaker 2: So the reason why you have to have skilled migrants
[17:49] Speaker 2: and hundreds of thousands and increase that number, and increase
[17:52] Speaker 2: that number, and you have to increase the number to
[17:54] Speaker 2: match last year's up to see how it just it's
[17:56] Speaker 2: a Ponzi scheme. Is because and I quote again the
[18:02] Speaker 2: reason higher overseas migration improves federal coffers is that migrants
[18:06] Speaker 2: are generally younger and arrive in Australia at working age
[18:11] Speaker 2: after most of their education costs have been covered, meaning
[18:14] Speaker 2: they deliver more in personal income, tax and economic activity
[18:18] Speaker 2: than they cost the government in spending over time.
[18:23] Speaker 1: That's the point.
[18:26] Speaker 2: Now they like to pretend, oh, we need one hundred
[18:30] Speaker 2: thousand more people with skills, because we don't have enough
[18:33] Speaker 2: people who have the skills for the population that has
[18:37] Speaker 2: gone from eighteen million to twenty eight people in the
[18:39] Speaker 2: twenty eight million in the past of thirty years, before
[18:43] Speaker 2: again in the next thirty years we go up by
[18:46] Speaker 2: another ten fifteen million people. But the truth is it's
[18:52] Speaker 2: all about this. You see, the government by running deliberately
[18:58] Speaker 2: spending more money than they earn in any one year,
[19:01] Speaker 2: means this problem only gets worse. If they ever actually
[19:06] Speaker 2: balance a budget will then theoretically the need for that
[19:11] Speaker 2: migration to help fix the whole goes away. So of
[19:16] Speaker 2: course you have the Labor Party with this constant obsession
[19:19] Speaker 2: and largely the Liberal Party for way too long, constant
[19:21] Speaker 2: obsession that the only thing that can grow the country
[19:24] Speaker 2: is more people coming into the country, not as kids,
[19:26] Speaker 2: not as teenagers, not as students, but as people old
[19:30] Speaker 2: enough to have a job and to pay income tax.
[19:33] Speaker 2: That is not a country. That is a Ponzi scheme.
[19:37] Speaker 2: We have an opportunity to tap the brakes, and I
[19:41] Speaker 2: love the sensitivity. Or if we tap the brakes, will
[19:43] Speaker 2: go deeper into deficit. We are one t four trillion
[19:47] Speaker 2: in it now. The idea of being able to slow
[19:52] Speaker 2: the growth, meaning that you don't have to keep spending
[19:56] Speaker 2: more next year, more, the year after, more, the year
[19:58] Speaker 2: after more, the year after because the total the number
[20:01] Speaker 2: is slowing, seems to me to be the way to go.
[20:04] Speaker 2: But of course, you know to even bring any of
[20:06] Speaker 2: this up at a dinner party.
[20:08] Speaker 1: Best.
[20:10] Speaker 2: As for the p of himself today, he was back
[20:12] Speaker 2: at his old university, Sydney University. You would have heard
[20:14] Speaker 2: by now that he was making a big speech about
[20:17] Speaker 2: AI and among other things, he says that Australian copyright
[20:21] Speaker 2: will be protected by him because he understands the twenty
[20:25] Speaker 2: first century wrote.
[20:27] Speaker 8: Let me make this crystal clear, not everything produced in
[20:31] Speaker 8: Australia is up for grabs, not at all. Australian writers, musicians,
[20:38] Speaker 8: artists and journalists must retain ownership and control of their work.
[20:45] Speaker 8: Our laws will spell that out plane as day. An
[20:50] Speaker 8: artist creative endeavor is their work and their property. No
[20:55] Speaker 8: company should use Australian books, music, art or news to
[20:59] Speaker 8: build or train without the artist's control, and that includes
[21:04] Speaker 8: the artist's control of the price and value of their work.
[21:08] Speaker 1: Anything less is theft.
[21:12] Speaker 2: We'll see what happens here. But he also talks about
[21:15] Speaker 2: data centers. This is increasingly a worry for many a suburb.
[21:18] Speaker 2: You will have noticed what used to be a block
[21:20] Speaker 2: of something now just becomes a giant block of nothing
[21:23] Speaker 2: with not too many people working in it and of
[21:25] Speaker 2: course wearing away, sucking up the power, drinking up as
[21:28] Speaker 2: much water as possible. Well, he's got a bold idea
[21:31] Speaker 2: for that.
[21:33] Speaker 8: We'll create a legal obligation for the next generation of
[21:36] Speaker 8: large scale data centers to underwrite new power supply, to
[21:41] Speaker 8: pay their full share of grid connection so no costs
[21:44] Speaker 8: are passed on to homes or businesses, and to put
[21:49] Speaker 8: at least as much energy into our grid as they
[21:52] Speaker 8: take out of it. To build new renewable generation and
[21:56] Speaker 8: firming to strengthen our national energy resilience and ensure that
[22:02] Speaker 8: data centers do not increase power prices for Australians.
[22:07] Speaker 2: No, because, of course you've already been doing that by
[22:10] Speaker 2: of course moving to the network that even the COSIRO
[22:12] Speaker 2: came out today and suggested is going to cost us
[22:14] Speaker 2: a little more money than the existing network which has
[22:17] Speaker 2: been around when it comes to good old fashioned coal fire,
[22:21] Speaker 2: which apparently is the cheaper option in the next little while.
[22:24] Speaker 2: But that report doesn't matter. That report doesn't matter, right,
[22:26] Speaker 2: that was official report around today. You've hednyone else talk
[22:28] Speaker 2: about it. So what will there be.
[22:30] Speaker 1: The windmills on the top of these things? No, will
[22:32] Speaker 1: there be solar panels on these things? Probably?
[22:34] Speaker 2: What will they really do? Well, of course they just
[22:36] Speaker 2: have to pay a bounty. So if you're watching us
[22:38] Speaker 2: in regional Australia, you will get the solo farms, you
[22:40] Speaker 2: will get the wind farms. Some artists have come out
[22:46] Speaker 2: and said great, good, nice to see. Let's see what
[22:48] Speaker 2: happens when it comes to the legislation. As for the opposition,
[22:52] Speaker 2: they are critical of the idea that all of this
[22:55] Speaker 2: isn't some new department. It is, well, a disk within
[22:59] Speaker 2: an office.
[23:01] Speaker 10: Well, I've got to say, what he is announced is
[23:04] Speaker 10: an office in an office inside his own office. He's
[23:07] Speaker 10: going to have another office and what is that office
[23:11] Speaker 10: going to do? I mean, honestly, the answer to this
[23:13] Speaker 10: is not more bureaucracy.
[23:16] Speaker 1: As for some other independent.
[23:18] Speaker 11: Voices little source on details, source and investment.
[23:23] Speaker 5: They're great ambitions, but they're going to put the money
[23:25] Speaker 5: behind to succeed with these ambitions.
[23:29] Speaker 2: Now, every now and then, I feel a responsibility that
[23:31] Speaker 2: when you've got something like a program like this, I've
[23:34] Speaker 2: got access to this microphone, access to your attention, that
[23:36] Speaker 2: sometimes you've got to talk about things that are overtly political.
[23:39] Speaker 2: They're always the red meat of team Red and Team blue.
[23:42] Speaker 2: And a perfect example of that.
[23:44] Speaker 1: Is a subject which hopefully you have.
[23:46] Speaker 2: No experience with, and hopefully you are learning the term
[23:49] Speaker 2: as I'm about to tell you, it's called sextortion. If
[23:52] Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about, then you know what
[23:54] Speaker 2: I'm about to say. If you don't know what I'm
[23:56] Speaker 2: talking about, well you need to really pay attention here. Extortion,
[24:00] Speaker 2: put simply, is a horrific crime where someone convinces young
[24:07] Speaker 2: people largely to end up taking an indecent image of
[24:11] Speaker 2: themselves and then the person is confronted by saying, if
[24:15] Speaker 2: you don't give us x thousand dollars, then we are
[24:17] Speaker 2: going to send this photo to everyone. You know, there
[24:21] Speaker 2: have been scenarios where people have taken their own lives
[24:23] Speaker 2: as a result of the embarrassment and the threat both
[24:27] Speaker 2: financially that they're not able to pay for and then
[24:29] Speaker 2: the potential embarrassment. Now, of course it's all of this
[24:31] Speaker 2: a crime, you bet you, but is it happening? Well, Sadly,
[24:35] Speaker 2: we've got some information from the e Safety Commissioner that
[24:37] Speaker 2: should concern everyone because more than two thousand complaints about
[24:41] Speaker 2: this specific thing of sexual extortion masses. This is not
[24:46] Speaker 2: revenge porn, but Australians have made more than two thousand
[24:49] Speaker 2: complaints about sexual extortion in just six months. Big tech
[24:53] Speaker 2: companies are accused of failing to address significant blind spots
[24:56] Speaker 2: in detecting abuse. Young Men eighteen to twenty four are
[25:00] Speaker 2: the most common victims among the sexual extortion complaints received
[25:05] Speaker 2: by the Online Safety Watchdog between the first of July
[25:08] Speaker 2: and December thirty one.
[25:09] Speaker 1: This year.
[25:10] Speaker 2: The Online Watchdog has launched an awareness campaign to inform
[25:13] Speaker 2: young men about the dangers and tactics used in sexual
[25:15] Speaker 2: extortion cases, including the use of videos featuring AI generated
[25:20] Speaker 2: women to hook victims. Now again, I won't get too
[25:23] Speaker 2: explicit about this, but if you have a younger person
[25:27] Speaker 2: in your world, you have to have a conversation with
[25:30] Speaker 2: them that you don't know who the stranger is on
[25:33] Speaker 2: the other end of the keyboard, and when they may
[25:36] Speaker 2: offer an image of themselves, there is absolutely no guarantee
[25:40] Speaker 2: that is a real person or a real image. And
[25:42] Speaker 2: even if that happens, do not return Serve under any circumstances.
[25:47] Speaker 2: Do not return Serve. Two thousand people have come forward
[25:53] Speaker 2: in six months saying this is a problem. Imagine the
[25:56] Speaker 2: thousands more who don't want to talk about it, who
[25:58] Speaker 2: don't want to get involved and may well have paid
[26:01] Speaker 2: the money. The website I'd love you to take down
[26:04] Speaker 2: if you can, so, I'll leave this up on the
[26:05] Speaker 2: screen right now is e safety dot gov dot AU,
[26:11] Speaker 2: ford slash newsroom, forward, slash what's on ford slash sex stortion,
[26:15] Speaker 2: or more importantly, just type in e safety dot gov
[26:18] Speaker 2: dot au and search the term sex stortion s e
[26:21] Speaker 2: x t O r t IO, n IF you are
[26:25] Speaker 2: somebody who's dealing with the stress of all of this. Please,
[26:27] Speaker 2: as always, our friends at Lifeline thirteen eleven fourteen their website.
[26:31] Speaker 2: If that's the way that a young person prefers to communicate,
[26:34] Speaker 2: is Lifeline dot org that are you, And as always,
[26:36] Speaker 2: please tattoo this into your brain. Kids Helpline one one hundred,
[26:39] Speaker 2: double five one one hundred, one hundred double five one
[26:41] Speaker 2: eight hundred and every single person from literally all the
[26:45] Speaker 2: way up into your late teens.
[26:48] Speaker 1: Kids Helpline dot com dot.
[26:49] Speaker 2: AU, kids Helpline dot com dot Not pleasant, but important
[26:53] Speaker 2: to talk about because we don't want anyone in our
[26:55] Speaker 2: lives to be.
[26:56] Speaker 1: Caught in this horrible trap.
[27:00] Speaker 2: I want to prove you something that'll come up in
[27:01] Speaker 2: the next couple of days. It is Donald Trump promising
[27:03] Speaker 2: a megabig super important, big news speech. It is of course,
[27:07] Speaker 2: all to do with what I assume he is going
[27:10] Speaker 2: to say is further proof about what he claims happened
[27:13] Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty election.
[27:15] Speaker 1: Now I don't.
[27:15] Speaker 2: Understand why he keeps going back to this. Well, he
[27:17] Speaker 2: did return to the presidency. In fact, if the twenty
[27:19] Speaker 2: twenty election went the way that he wanted to, he
[27:21] Speaker 2: would have been out of the presidency by the end
[27:24] Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four. Instead, he is going to be
[27:26] Speaker 2: around until January the twentieth. At midday in twenty twenty nine,
[27:32] Speaker 2: he will be giving a speech on Friday at eleven am.
[27:35] Speaker 2: You can see it all here on Sky News. Some
[27:39] Speaker 2: of the suggestions here is that he is again going
[27:43] Speaker 2: to talk about elections, and he says that our country
[27:45] Speaker 2: has to shape up. In fact, he was talking up
[27:47] Speaker 2: the speech. This will be a primetime national address scene
[27:50] Speaker 2: coast to coast and around the world on Friday.
[27:54] Speaker 7: You give us sort of a sneak peek about what
[27:55] Speaker 7: she looks back and how well I'm.
[27:57] Speaker 11: Only say it will concern that subject, and will couple
[28:00] Speaker 11: of other things to say, so, but I'd rather save it.
[28:03] Speaker 11: But it's really big news. It's really really big news,
[28:09] Speaker 11: and our country has to shape up. But that's what
[28:13] Speaker 11: we're going to be talking about Thursday. Is it doesn't
[28:17] Speaker 11: get bigger because without free and fair elections, you don't
[28:20] Speaker 11: have a country. We'll be discussing other things too, but
[28:23] Speaker 11: it's going to be a very big announcement.
[28:25] Speaker 1: You you know, a like Trump. But I hate this stuff.
[28:28] Speaker 2: I have always hided this stuff from January sixth all
[28:30] Speaker 2: the way through to today. It shouldn't be what he's
[28:32] Speaker 2: doing with the johnt mega find that is the presidency
[28:35] Speaker 2: about the realities. He's been talking about it a lot recently,
[28:38] Speaker 2: in fact, saying in candid how many times in the
[28:40] Speaker 2: past month since.
[28:43] Speaker 12: That particular day June fourth, Okay, best we could find
[28:46] Speaker 12: Jamal Trump's talked about rigged elections in at least eighteen
[28:49] Speaker 12: different interviews or speeches, eighteen okay, which is just stunning.
[28:55] Speaker 2: Now, rather than the Democrats sitting back when the President
[28:58] Speaker 2: might the statement and then reacting to the statement, they
[29:00] Speaker 2: are of course turning a win into a loss. You
[29:03] Speaker 2: have AOC who could potentially either be vice president or
[29:06] Speaker 2: the president, or at least the Democratic nominee for either
[29:09] Speaker 2: of those positions. In twenty twenty eight, she says that
[29:13] Speaker 2: TV stations simply shouldn't air the president, that they should
[29:16] Speaker 2: cancel the president's speech.
[29:19] Speaker 7: Many news outlets oftentimes we receive transcripts, and I think
[29:24] Speaker 7: that we have an ethical obligation to not air things
[29:28] Speaker 7: that undermine our elections that are not rooted in evidence
[29:33] Speaker 7: and fact.
[29:36] Speaker 2: Now, if you believe that a speech is about to
[29:38] Speaker 2: be full of lies. Well, it's up to the broadcaster
[29:40] Speaker 2: if they want to to put a whole bunch of
[29:42] Speaker 2: facts on the screen in real time, or to respond
[29:44] Speaker 2: to the speech straight after the speech. But the idea
[29:46] Speaker 2: of not hearing from the President because you don't like
[29:49] Speaker 2: what he's about to say, that's the worst impulses of
[29:51] Speaker 2: twenty twenty and in part it's why he got back
[29:54] Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. Quick break back with more lots
[29:56] Speaker 2: to discuss this evening here on FORMERRA Live, including the
[29:59] Speaker 2: aim from the Prime Minister today and what's going on
[30:02] Speaker 2: in Melbourne. They've got a chance to get rid of
[30:04] Speaker 2: cinder Allen. We'll all find out if it happens at
[30:06] Speaker 2: the election.
[30:07] Speaker 1: Or maybe before Big Chat next. Thank you very much.
[30:16] Speaker 1: We'll always here to help.
[30:16] Speaker 2: Is none of the great Stephen Conroy on a Wednesday,
[30:19] Speaker 2: And here to help as well is the lovely what
[30:21] Speaker 2: the lovely Christy McSweeney. The reason I stumble is because firstly,
[30:25] Speaker 2: lovely to see you. Secondly, happy birthday for tomorrow.
[30:27] Speaker 1: Yes, fellow Canserrian, it's birthday week for both it is.
[30:31] Speaker 1: It is so excity all right.
[30:33] Speaker 2: So Stephen, what do you think of what the Prime
[30:36] Speaker 2: Minister had to say today when it comes to AI.
[30:38] Speaker 2: And normally I'm a super hard marker and generally speaking,
[30:41] Speaker 2: if I just have to go to a default position,
[30:43] Speaker 2: I'm going to go. I don't trust what he's up to.
[30:45] Speaker 2: But it's an evolving area. It's one that I think
[30:47] Speaker 2: we should be as bipartisan as possible about, which is
[30:50] Speaker 2: to work out how to get our hands around it.
[30:53] Speaker 2: But is this going to be an actual control to
[30:56] Speaker 2: some degree or is it just going to be a
[30:58] Speaker 2: fee that say, an open AI or a claud is
[31:01] Speaker 2: going to have to pay to the government and then
[31:03] Speaker 2: it distributes it in all those areas he mentioned before.
[31:08] Speaker 9: Yeah, well, look, as you mentioned in your intro, Paul,
[31:12] Speaker 9: there are significant electricity and water issues when it comes
[31:16] Speaker 9: to data centers.
[31:18] Speaker 1: So this stretches across.
[31:20] Speaker 9: A whole range of portfolios, you know, agriculture because of
[31:24] Speaker 9: the implications, environment, because of the implications the economy, treasury implications,
[31:32] Speaker 9: and so I actually think it's a good decision so
[31:35] Speaker 9: that he takes control inside his own department. Otherwise I've
[31:41] Speaker 9: you know, into departmental committees are one of the banes
[31:45] Speaker 9: of my life when I was a minister and so
[31:49] Speaker 9: having the Prime Minister's authority to put it in the
[31:53] Speaker 9: above this and to drive it absolutely. And let me
[31:56] Speaker 9: give you it's just an example. So I was the
[31:59] Speaker 9: Minister for Economy and I was trying to put a
[32:01] Speaker 9: conference on with all speakers, all this sort of stuff,
[32:03] Speaker 9: and I wanted to Health to speak, part of Education
[32:06] Speaker 9: to speak, now all these other departments and I wrote
[32:08] Speaker 9: to them and all of them declined. So I then
[32:13] Speaker 9: got the Prime Minister to write to them all and
[32:16] Speaker 9: surprisingly they all turned up.
[32:19] Speaker 13: Yeah.
[32:20] Speaker 9: So with the with the PMS impromata, you can drive
[32:25] Speaker 9: through the policy blocks that other departments will put in place. Now,
[32:30] Speaker 9: this is a really important leaning in by the government.
[32:35] Speaker 9: Data centers are the next boom. There are genuine economic
[32:40] Speaker 9: macro taxation benefits, but at the same time there is
[32:44] Speaker 9: community concerns across the globe and ensuring that the community
[32:48] Speaker 9: concerns are mets, the social license conditions are met is
[32:52] Speaker 9: really important and I think being in the PM will
[32:54] Speaker 9: allow those competing concerns to be put together and driven through.
[32:59] Speaker 2: Maybe to get there everyone to agree yes to the
[33:00] Speaker 2: meetings you should have said the best welcomed to country
[33:03] Speaker 2: this week will happen at this meeting and everyone would
[33:05] Speaker 2: have jumped in, right, everyone would have jumped in a Christie.
[33:08] Speaker 2: In the state of New York, they have put a
[33:10] Speaker 2: moratorium no more of these data centers in California. Of course,
[33:14] Speaker 2: nuclear power is going to be paid for by Microsoftware
[33:18] Speaker 2: Release its former boss as a way of powering it.
[33:21] Speaker 1: So no one's quite worked this one out yet. What
[33:24] Speaker 1: do you think of what you heard today?
[33:25] Speaker 13: I thought the Prime Minister in the government has dressed
[33:29] Speaker 13: up an infrastructure policy and called it AI.
[33:33] Speaker 1: It's not AI.
[33:34] Speaker 13: There's nothing in that policy about how is Australia going
[33:38] Speaker 13: to own its own knowledge? Now the music industry has
[33:41] Speaker 13: kind of woken up to this, but three million small
[33:45] Speaker 13: businesses in this country are plugging their business strategy, their
[33:49] Speaker 13: financial papers, their team meeting transcriptions, anything they want to
[33:55] Speaker 13: do into OpenAI and anthropic because NYIBA and Zero have
[34:01] Speaker 13: partnered with the two big open two big tech platforms,
[34:05] Speaker 13: and sovereign AI is actually about how do we make
[34:09] Speaker 13: sure that all that intelligence that we have in Australia,
[34:13] Speaker 13: whether it be creativity or whether it be business. Small
[34:18] Speaker 13: business in particular, because they're using these tools because they
[34:20] Speaker 13: can see the productivity gains the risk of that looks
[34:24] Speaker 13: too far to them. They don't understand it, and who does.
[34:28] Speaker 1: There's words like.
[34:29] Speaker 13: Ontology and tokens, and I could explain those two, but
[34:32] Speaker 13: I'm not. I'm simply going to say the PM was
[34:35] Speaker 13: asked about sovereign capability. He didn't speak about knowledge. He
[34:40] Speaker 13: didn't speak about how we own our own intelligence. Once
[34:43] Speaker 13: it goes into this data center, are the Americans not
[34:47] Speaker 13: just going to learn it, refine it, repackage it, send
[34:50] Speaker 13: it back to us, perhaps in another business that they've
[34:53] Speaker 13: replicated from our knowledge. And this is what the music
[34:55] Speaker 13: industry is on about. All I've heard about is infrastructure,
[35:00] Speaker 13: is water, is power, is energy. That's not an II poloshy,
[35:04] Speaker 13: that's an infrastructure program.
[35:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point.
[35:07] Speaker 2: Well, it'll be interesting about where there's licensing and money
[35:09] Speaker 2: that comes as a result of it. I get for
[35:10] Speaker 2: some that maybe a little eye glazing. But this is
[35:12] Speaker 2: one of those fork in the road moments, right, And
[35:14] Speaker 2: when we make a choice, you're going to go, why
[35:16] Speaker 2: didn't we talk?
[35:16] Speaker 1: We're having the conversation, all right, stick with it, all right?
[35:19] Speaker 2: So one nation in the polls, the Yugo Pole, the
[35:21] Speaker 2: Sky News Pulse, showed as others have, that there has
[35:24] Speaker 2: been a tick down in their support. Again, I think
[35:28] Speaker 2: it's a little over the top for those that are
[35:29] Speaker 2: pretending that the sky is falling in. Perhaps they may
[35:32] Speaker 2: well have hit the particular top, but there are poles
[35:36] Speaker 2: including demos Au and Morgan that still have them on top.
[35:39] Speaker 2: But Stephen, can I just make this very clear to
[35:41] Speaker 2: everyone who says ding Dong it is over. If the
[35:44] Speaker 2: best case scenario is that they end up somewhere between
[35:47] Speaker 2: fifteen and twenty percent, So not between twenty and thirty,
[35:50] Speaker 2: not between thirty and forty, but fifteen to twenty that's
[35:53] Speaker 2: a senator in every single state.
[35:56] Speaker 1: That is how they can change the game.
[35:58] Speaker 2: Now, yes, will they largely be replacing L and P senators,
[36:01] Speaker 2: but not in Tasmania, maybe not in South Australia, maybe
[36:05] Speaker 2: not in Western Australia. And that's why the people going
[36:09] Speaker 2: ding Dong ding dong are not really paying attention to
[36:12] Speaker 2: what's happening here.
[36:15] Speaker 9: Look, that's absolutely right, Paul, You're dead right about the
[36:18] Speaker 9: implications for the Senate. They could easily get one in
[36:25] Speaker 9: each Senate. Now, as you said, most of them will
[36:28] Speaker 9: be at the expense of the Liberal National Party and
[36:33] Speaker 9: you need thirty nine votes to win in the Senate,
[36:36] Speaker 9: so it'd be vital that they're able to win an
[36:38] Speaker 9: extra posse in South Australia potentially, but Tasmania is the
[36:44] Speaker 9: one where I think there's a real chance for them
[36:47] Speaker 9: to add one to the column of the Conservative block
[36:51] Speaker 9: in the Senate. So I think they're certainly going to
[36:55] Speaker 9: win seats. They could do very very well in the
[36:59] Speaker 9: Victorian Upper House, probably better than they did in the
[37:02] Speaker 9: South Australian Upper House and they did well there. They
[37:05] Speaker 9: could be very influential in all policy going forward federally,
[37:10] Speaker 9: and they certainly will have a lot to say about
[37:13] Speaker 9: the Victorian Upper House and possibly the new South Wales
[37:16] Speaker 9: Upper House well.
[37:17] Speaker 2: Again, in a couple of weeks time, we've got Paulin
[37:19] Speaker 2: Henson in the studio. Again, I think things have got
[37:21] Speaker 2: a little bit hot when we're talking about preferred prime
[37:23] Speaker 2: minister's alternative governments. It's a conversation about what happens and
[37:26] Speaker 2: about who's the engine and who's the caboost in terms
[37:28] Speaker 2: of opposition that again we'll discuss in Victoria here. But
[37:32] Speaker 2: again Christy, it is something where people I understand why
[37:36] Speaker 2: we don't pay attention when they're five percent. We don't
[37:37] Speaker 2: pay attention when they're tempacuire. It only matters when they
[37:39] Speaker 2: become the single most popular. We're still running. Something above
[37:44] Speaker 2: twenty means virtually guaranteed one everywhere, and you're in the
[37:47] Speaker 2: fight for two in plays.
[37:49] Speaker 13: Look, there's room in this poll, there's room in the
[37:52] Speaker 13: polling figures that we say of thirty percent.
[37:55] Speaker 1: Right, But you're right.
[37:57] Speaker 13: Even if that drops significantly, and I expect it will
[38:00] Speaker 13: drop as those One Nation curious turn away from One Nation,
[38:05] Speaker 13: we will see one Nation win seats. Right, that's a reality.
[38:09] Speaker 13: They're going to win seats in Victoria. They're going to
[38:11] Speaker 13: win seats in New South Wales next year, particularly because
[38:14] Speaker 13: it has optional preferential voting in New South Wales. In
[38:17] Speaker 13: Victoria we go down the preference list, they are going
[38:22] Speaker 13: to win seats. They are, you know, this new Community
[38:25] Speaker 13: First Till party. It is their aim to be effective
[38:29] Speaker 13: in the Senate. They be redundant in the lower House. Right,
[38:33] Speaker 13: that didn't pan out for them, So now they're wanting
[38:35] Speaker 13: to be the Senate powermaker and One Nation is going
[38:39] Speaker 13: to really give them a run for their money. And
[38:40] Speaker 13: they're starting way out ahead already.
[38:43] Speaker 2: Let's talk about Victoria now again. First we'll get to
[38:45] Speaker 2: the CEE for MEU in a second here, But again,
[38:47] Speaker 2: latest polls, they are quite perilous for labor right now.
[38:51] Speaker 2: It seems that, you know, just Cinder Allen in her position,
[38:54] Speaker 2: particularly saying no toe seven at a ten people on
[38:56] Speaker 2: a royal commission is not exactly where you would imagine
[38:59] Speaker 2: she should be. But Christy, your thoughts about where the
[39:01] Speaker 2: numbers sit right now and does it materially affect the
[39:04] Speaker 2: campaign if one nation goes into it with a higher
[39:07] Speaker 2: number than the Libs in terms of the labor scare.
[39:11] Speaker 13: I don't think it materially affects a campaign. I think
[39:13] Speaker 13: the Liberal Party has really understood now that one nation
[39:18] Speaker 13: is a reality. And whilst it is premature to join
[39:22] Speaker 13: with them in a coalition, because if you join with
[39:24] Speaker 13: them in a coalition, you have to stand behind their
[39:26] Speaker 13: body of work and you have to say we agree
[39:29] Speaker 13: with it, all of it, lock stock and barrel. And
[39:32] Speaker 13: that is a warning that some of the federal colleagues
[39:34] Speaker 13: in Canberra and their lampaign might need to take heed from.
[39:37] Speaker 13: But they also have no candidates, so this is a
[39:40] Speaker 13: very premature discussion that people are getting excited about. I
[39:45] Speaker 13: don't know if it could be the greatest election experiment
[39:49] Speaker 13: ever run, to come so far close to an election
[39:52] Speaker 13: and not announce a candidate. My sense is that they
[39:55] Speaker 13: will dump them all into the market just before the
[39:58] Speaker 13: campaign proper kicks off and try and soak up the
[40:00] Speaker 13: media and the name ID.
[40:02] Speaker 1: But I don't know if it will work.
[40:04] Speaker 13: Victorians don't know these people there aren't need to know
[40:07] Speaker 13: as yet.
[40:08] Speaker 2: I mean this is currently right, it's none of the above.
[40:10] Speaker 2: Situation different South Australia when, of course Cory hopped in
[40:12] Speaker 2: and yes that was weeks out, but it's all a
[40:14] Speaker 2: little bit different because people can see this train coming.
[40:17] Speaker 2: Is the concern inside the Labor Party as is written
[40:20] Speaker 2: Stephen right now.
[40:23] Speaker 9: Look, absolutely, there hasn't been a poll that's had Labor
[40:28] Speaker 9: above twenty six twenty seven for a while and if
[40:34] Speaker 9: we I think we've probably bottomed out, though I'm very
[40:39] Speaker 9: cautious to say that we need to get to a
[40:42] Speaker 9: primary of thirty thirty one to be feeling confident that
[40:48] Speaker 9: we can form a government, even possibly a minority government.
[40:54] Speaker 9: So I think there's a lot of work to be done.
[40:57] Speaker 9: I've said this before on your show. If if you're
[41:01] Speaker 9: a member of Parliament in Victoria, you want to know
[41:05] Speaker 9: what your primary vote is, because if your primary vote
[41:10] Speaker 9: is below thirty five, below thirty four, you are going
[41:15] Speaker 9: to struggle to win your seat. And that poll that's
[41:18] Speaker 9: has come out, and there's a more detailed breakdown came
[41:22] Speaker 9: up a bit later this evening which shows the number
[41:26] Speaker 9: of seats that are in potential trouble.
[41:29] Speaker 1: The Labor Party could lose up.
[41:30] Speaker 9: To thirty or more seats.
[41:35] Speaker 1: In this election.
[41:37] Speaker 9: So if those numbers were to hold up in that description,
[41:42] Speaker 9: the Labor Party could be in all sorts of trouble.
[41:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, all eyes, I think it's the end of
[41:47] Speaker 2: the week is when some of this polling gets brought
[41:49] Speaker 2: directly to the MPs. Pay attention because it is your future,
[41:53] Speaker 2: not to mention the state in their hands. Thank you, guys,
[41:54] Speaker 2: do appreciate it. We'll talk to you again very soon.
[41:57] Speaker 1: All right.
[41:57] Speaker 2: Happy birthday by the way, for tomorrow DNA twenty one
[42:00] Speaker 2: always Megan Kelly speaking of joins us straight after the break.
[42:10] Speaker 2: It's our favorite time of the week to talk about
[42:12] Speaker 2: favorite person in the world, the one, the only, the wonderful.
[42:13] Speaker 1: Meghan Kelly, how are you mate?
[42:15] Speaker 14: Great to be here now.
[42:16] Speaker 2: I want to focus on some crazy, and there's a
[42:18] Speaker 2: lot of crazy around this week, including can you believe
[42:21] Speaker 2: the types of people who have to come out and
[42:25] Speaker 2: metaphorically punch the corpse of somebody who is no longer
[42:28] Speaker 2: here I'm talking about and Whittingham in the United Kingdom,
[42:31] Speaker 2: and of course the Republican Senator Lindsay Graham. Why can't
[42:35] Speaker 2: people just stay silent as opposed to getting a shot
[42:39] Speaker 2: in after someone dies?
[42:41] Speaker 14: Yeah, no, it's it's not that far afield. I mean,
[42:45] Speaker 14: it is far afield, but it's related somewhat to this
[42:48] Speaker 14: assassination culture thing where it's like, I don't care whether
[42:52] Speaker 14: you live or die. I'm kind of celebrating the fact
[42:55] Speaker 14: that you're gone. Then I don't see in you any humanity.
[42:59] Speaker 14: I mean, it's it doesn't if you feel this way.
[43:01] Speaker 14: It doesn't mean you're going to pick up a gun
[43:03] Speaker 14: and shoot somebody, but it is. It's a cousin, you know,
[43:06] Speaker 14: where you just dehumanize somebody and all over them and
[43:09] Speaker 14: their family in the family's lowest moment, in their time
[43:13] Speaker 14: of deep pain. And when you know this person, everyone
[43:17] Speaker 14: who is here gives it there a lot. You know,
[43:20] Speaker 14: they try their best virtually everyone. They may not please
[43:24] Speaker 14: all the people all the time. In fact, they do
[43:26] Speaker 14: not do that if they're doing things right here. But
[43:29] Speaker 14: when they die, I think we owe people the commitment
[43:32] Speaker 14: to trying to see the good they did in the
[43:35] Speaker 14: world and to minimizing the bad. I don't say that,
[43:38] Speaker 14: you don't mention it.
[43:39] Speaker 7: You know.
[43:39] Speaker 14: There was a big debate after Kobe Bryant was killed
[43:42] Speaker 14: so tragically with his daughter, and he was an American
[43:44] Speaker 14: hero and he was so incredible his work, ethic, his
[43:48] Speaker 14: approach to life, but he had been accused of raping
[43:51] Speaker 14: a woman and it was like, does that go in
[43:52] Speaker 14: the oh bit or not?
[43:53] Speaker 1: Well, I don't know.
[43:55] Speaker 14: You know, if it goes in there, it goes down
[43:57] Speaker 14: very very low, and it's a passing mention and you
[43:59] Speaker 14: move like I just think, in death, do we really
[44:03] Speaker 14: like yeah, O J. Simpson, Okay, it's going to be
[44:05] Speaker 14: up very high. He wasn't convicted, but was found criminal
[44:11] Speaker 14: or civilly liable for the death of his wife and
[44:14] Speaker 14: her good friend Ronald Goldman. So there's a sliding scale.
[44:17] Speaker 14: But I just think in the moment of their death,
[44:19] Speaker 14: maybe you could work a little harder to find their humanity.
[44:21] Speaker 14: And if you can't do it for their good or
[44:23] Speaker 14: the good of their family, do it for your own
[44:24] Speaker 14: good and the good of your family, just for your children.
[44:27] Speaker 14: So we can continue operating under this presumption that we
[44:31] Speaker 14: all have this shared humanity that will come first and
[44:33] Speaker 14: foremost when we're dealing with issues of life and death.
[44:36] Speaker 2: And speaking at Christy, the Supreme Court justices or at
[44:39] Speaker 2: least two of them, gave evidence in the Senate to
[44:41] Speaker 2: die about the threats to their security and the fact
[44:45] Speaker 2: that thy or members of their family have had to
[44:47] Speaker 2: wear bulletproof vests because people didn't lock the decisions that
[44:51] Speaker 2: were being made there, particularly when it comes to abortion.
[44:55] Speaker 1: I mean, again, this is just another example of crazy
[44:58] Speaker 1: that's out of control.
[45:00] Speaker 14: Yeah, no, exactly. And it's like politics. We have to
[45:04] Speaker 14: separate politics from genuine evil. And I understand the Lindsey
[45:11] Speaker 14: Graham's critics, for example, think that he was evil because
[45:14] Speaker 14: he advocated war in so many instances. And I get it,
[45:17] Speaker 14: but it and when you're trying to defeat his policies,
[45:21] Speaker 14: that might be a tactical decision you make in order
[45:24] Speaker 14: to minimize him or his arguments. But in death, don't
[45:28] Speaker 14: we have to be like super honest that he was
[45:31] Speaker 14: in the business of politics and he had a worldview
[45:35] Speaker 14: that the world would be safer without certain actors he
[45:38] Speaker 14: deemed to be bad. And while you may think he
[45:41] Speaker 14: was completely wrong about the means he advocated in getting there,
[45:46] Speaker 14: you can't see in death that what you had with
[45:49] Speaker 14: him at base was a political disagreement. And maybe check
[45:53] Speaker 14: the most ugly, nasty rhetoric.
[45:55] Speaker 2: Now do you care about the outrighte that he's owned
[45:59] Speaker 2: much of the internet surrounding the new Christopher Alan film
[46:01] Speaker 2: The Odyssey. Of course it's a tile that's thousands of
[46:04] Speaker 2: years old, but the lightest version of telling it has
[46:07] Speaker 2: rice swooping and gender swapping.
[46:09] Speaker 1: But my issue is who cays it's not real?
[46:13] Speaker 7: Yeah?
[46:15] Speaker 14: Yeah, I'm annoyed to be honest, because these are the
[46:18] Speaker 14: left's rules. And you know what we're getting right now is,
[46:22] Speaker 14: for example, they they praise Moana Live Action for being
[46:28] Speaker 14: true to French Polynesian culture in like their customs and
[46:32] Speaker 14: the casting, but when you get to The Odyssey, which
[46:35] Speaker 14: was a bunch of white people and they get replaced
[46:38] Speaker 14: by people of color, minorities, white people are not allowed
[46:41] Speaker 14: to say anything. You are not allowed to stay true
[46:44] Speaker 14: to you know, white culture, whatever that is, or just
[46:47] Speaker 14: you know, a story that's about whites, like Helen of
[46:51] Speaker 14: Troy was in the original writing a white person but
[46:55] Speaker 14: had to be made black because you can't win an
[46:57] Speaker 14: oscar if everybody's white in your movie. So it's yeah,
[47:01] Speaker 14: it is annoying. Like I don't think I would have
[47:04] Speaker 14: gone to see The Odyssey either way. You know, it's
[47:05] Speaker 14: very hard to go see movies. I'm busy. When it
[47:08] Speaker 14: comes around to on demand, maybe I'll watch it. But
[47:10] Speaker 14: in all honesty, no, I know, like guys are excited
[47:14] Speaker 14: to see this. I just I'm not sure this is
[47:16] Speaker 14: my thing. But yeah, I do resent it. Like if
[47:19] Speaker 14: you're allowed to change the white people to black, then
[47:22] Speaker 14: we should be allowed to change the black people to
[47:24] Speaker 14: white or to minimum. We should be allowed to just
[47:26] Speaker 14: have the white people stay white. Shouldn't that be a
[47:28] Speaker 14: fair deal. Why can't the whites stay white? Why don't
[47:31] Speaker 14: we have Bridgerton where the Queen of England is black.
[47:34] Speaker 14: That's a lie that never happened. This is ridiculous. We're
[47:37] Speaker 14: not allowed to object or we're racist. We're the racist.
[47:40] Speaker 14: I was a racist to say there's.
[47:41] Speaker 1: Never been a black queen of England.
[47:43] Speaker 14: Who are you gas lighting?
[47:45] Speaker 1: Stop it?
[47:45] Speaker 14: But now we got to pretend Helen of Troy, who
[47:47] Speaker 14: was written as a white person, is secretly Lupito of Neango,
[47:51] Speaker 14: and that's what Homer envisioned all along. Well that's and
[47:55] Speaker 14: we know it. I just like, I'm sick of it.
[47:58] Speaker 14: So it does bother me. It's an obvious Oscars play.
[48:02] Speaker 14: He's a small man for doing it, and yeah, that's
[48:06] Speaker 14: that's where I stand on it. It's like they're hypocrites,
[48:08] Speaker 14: they're grows. They heat whites. So that's kind of where
[48:12] Speaker 14: I am.
[48:14] Speaker 1: Oh, that's why we love you. Thank you so much
[48:15] Speaker 1: to say it next week.
[48:16] Speaker 7: Great to see you.
[48:18] Speaker 1: I love when she just doesn't care. I love it.
[48:20] Speaker 1: I really love it in the best possible way. The Odyssey,
[48:22] Speaker 1: by the way, comes out tomorrow.
[48:24] Speaker 2: iMX is apparently the best way to watch it or
[48:26] Speaker 2: seventy millimeter, but it is three hours, okay, so make
[48:29] Speaker 2: sure you don't drink.
[48:30] Speaker 1: Much during the movie. A lit alone before MORNI secy On, Paul.
[48:33] Speaker 10: Murray, Life
[48:39] Speaker 2: Us for the Night, Angus Taylor, our special guests tomorrow
[48:41] Speaker 2: and in a couple of weeks, Pauline

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