# Paul Murray Live | 29 September

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 29 Sep 2026, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/061820e6-ac38-4aba-9352-b4d400d69085/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Cash rate hits 15-year high under Labor, housing costs and falling living standards agitating voters. Plus, the battle for leadership looms after Larissa Waters stands down. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you, Shari. Gladly, just
[0:07] Speaker 1: send it on to me. There is a lot to
[0:09] Speaker 1: get to tonight. But can I, before we get into
[0:10] Speaker 1: anything else, and yes, there is only one big story
[0:13] Speaker 1: in the country tonight. We'll talk to Nigel Farage. We'll
[0:16] Speaker 1: have a debate. We'll talk about other subjects. But of course,
[0:18] Speaker 1: the lead story is the only story that really matters
[0:22] Speaker 1: tonight to millions of people trying to work out how
[0:24] Speaker 1: ends meet.
[0:26] Speaker 2: The RBA has lifted the cash rate from 4.35% to 4.6%.
[0:29] Speaker 3: Interest rates have hit a 15-year high.
[0:34] Speaker 1: Lifting the cash rate to a 15-year high. And I'm
[0:39] Speaker 1: angry with them all, right? I'm just as furious as
[0:42] Speaker 1: you are with the gaslighting Treasurer, the BSing Prime Minister,
[0:48] Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank Governor who, for some reason, dropped interest
[0:52] Speaker 1: rates and that gave... the government, a narrative that got
[0:55] Speaker 1: them re-elected only for it all to come back, get
[0:58] Speaker 1: worse and maybe get worse from here. But can I
[1:00] Speaker 1: just say one thing right off the top tonight? Life
[1:04] Speaker 1: got harder for millions of people today. Now, so often
[1:08] Speaker 1: the news and what dictates the lead story of the
[1:11] Speaker 1: day can be someone deciding a news story that connects
[1:15] Speaker 1: with the most number of people. That's generally a why
[1:19] Speaker 1: you don't see really obscure things at the start of
[1:21] Speaker 1: the news, even though sometimes those might be the most
[1:23] Speaker 1: important thing at the top of the news. But people
[1:28] Speaker 1: have had enough and have had enough for a long time.
[1:32] Speaker 1: From the period before COVID, where times were already tough
[1:36] Speaker 1: and cost of living was already an issue that was
[1:39] Speaker 1: starting to be weaponised politically, but we all know how
[1:43] Speaker 1: maddening it was six years ago. And the country broke
[1:47] Speaker 1: in a way that I was... shocked and saddened that
[1:50] Speaker 1: it actually happened when people considered themselves to be of
[1:54] Speaker 1: a state first not of a country but please keep
[1:56] Speaker 1: the money coming from everywhere else when people sort of
[1:59] Speaker 1: turned on their fellow citizen when as long as my
[2:03] Speaker 1: family was all right who cared about anyone else's and
[2:07] Speaker 1: then we have seen a politics that has been really
[2:11] Speaker 1: toxic ever since where the only way to win a
[2:15] Speaker 1: vote is to try to buy a vote where the
[2:18] Speaker 1: expectation of our politics and of our elections is what's
[2:22] Speaker 1: in it for me, where we've gone over the past
[2:26] Speaker 1: 20 years from the federal budget really kind of being
[2:30] Speaker 1: a dry, boring conversation about federal finances to now one
[2:34] Speaker 1: that every single news website in the country puts a
[2:37] Speaker 1: calculator on where you put in how much you earn
[2:40] Speaker 1: and it'll spit out and tell you how much you're
[2:42] Speaker 1: getting back. The consequences of all of that is a
[2:46] Speaker 1: trillion dollars in debt. The consequences of all of that
[2:50] Speaker 1: is a government that spends more money than it takes in,
[2:54] Speaker 1: and that's the case for the next 40 years. And
[2:58] Speaker 1: while the people in charge of the Australian economy on
[3:04] Speaker 1: the political side turn around and divvy people up as
[3:08] Speaker 1: the best way to guarantee being returned to power, they
[3:10] Speaker 1: feel no responsibility, no restraint. No consequences for their actions.
[3:16] Speaker 1: Because they see the entire role of being the captains
[3:20] Speaker 1: of the ship of Australia as just holding on to
[3:23] Speaker 1: the job and finding a way to keep it when
[3:26] Speaker 1: an election comes around. Well, in the meantime, there is
[3:30] Speaker 1: the real world. And the real world has got poverty
[3:34] Speaker 1: in it. The real world has got people who run
[3:36] Speaker 1: out of food in it. Those problems have got worse,
[3:40] Speaker 1: demonstrably worse. since the pandemic and definitely since this government.
[3:45] Speaker 1: But no one cares. It's not the lead story. It's
[3:47] Speaker 1: not sexy. Quick change the subject. Look over here. We're
[3:49] Speaker 1: censoring the internet. Look over here. It's all about renewable energy.
[3:54] Speaker 1: 15 interest rate rises have taken place on this government's watch. 15. Yes,
[4:03] Speaker 1: there were two downs, but the rest are all ups.
[4:06] Speaker 1: We are now at the worst position we've been in
[4:08] Speaker 1: 15 years. And for most people, they borrow as much
[4:12] Speaker 1: as they possibly can to get the best possible version
[4:16] Speaker 1: of a house because people want to be comfortable, apart
[4:20] Speaker 1: from anything else, right? Forget the Australian dream, forget white privilege,
[4:23] Speaker 1: forget all that other guff and garbage that we get told.
[4:27] Speaker 1: The reason you want to live in a nice house
[4:29] Speaker 1: is because it's a symbol of how hard you've worked
[4:32] Speaker 1: and it's an opportunity for your kids or your grandkids
[4:35] Speaker 1: to have a better start in life than you had
[4:38] Speaker 1: that we had. That's why we do it. OK? Not
[4:43] Speaker 1: because we've been sold some other fictitious dream. And when
[4:47] Speaker 1: you make a choice and you buy a house, you
[4:50] Speaker 1: know interest rates are going to go up a little
[4:51] Speaker 1: bit here and there, but the idea that they just
[4:53] Speaker 1: kept going up 15 times in a row. I think
[4:58] Speaker 1: when I was talking about it when I was only
[4:59] Speaker 1: five or ten, that the pressure of how much you
[5:05] Speaker 1: have to pay to stay in your home is something
[5:09] Speaker 1: that has only got worse Yet the government and the media,
[5:13] Speaker 1: desperate to change the subject, turn around and say relief
[5:16] Speaker 1: for homebuyers because it didn't go up again this month,
[5:18] Speaker 1: it just stayed the same.
[5:19] Speaker 3: No, no.
[5:19] Speaker 1: People have been choking and have been like Rabina purple
[5:25] Speaker 1: for years under this mob. People are genuinely worried about
[5:32] Speaker 1: what they're going to do. And for some... they will
[5:36] Speaker 1: be able to find a way. But for others, they
[5:39] Speaker 1: will seriously be making considerations about whether they can stay
[5:42] Speaker 1: where they live right now. Now, that doesn't mean they're
[5:44] Speaker 1: going to become homeless, but it means they're not going
[5:46] Speaker 1: to be living where they planned to live, where their
[5:49] Speaker 1: kids have gone or are going to school, the proximity
[5:53] Speaker 1: to their parents. That's the consequence of things today. It
[5:57] Speaker 1: is not about the politics. It is not about the politicians.
[6:02] Speaker 1: It's not about the Reserve Bank. For me, it's just
[6:04] Speaker 1: the very human side that today life got harder for
[6:09] Speaker 1: millions of people all at once, all at 2.30. It
[6:15] Speaker 1: just means cutting on other things.
[6:17] Speaker 4: I can't afford to have what I want at the supermarket.
[6:20] Speaker 1: I can't afford to put the heater on. It's just
[6:22] Speaker 1: an everyday stress.
[6:23] Speaker 5: You've got to be so calculative whether you pay extra
[6:27] Speaker 5: towards your mortgage.
[6:29] Speaker 1: It's a kind of loophole where us cannot increase our income.
[6:34] Speaker 1: and we still have to live with the current expenses.
[6:37] Speaker 1: It's getting tougher day by day. It is tragic, and
[6:41] Speaker 1: I do know a lot of people who are suffering
[6:43] Speaker 1: that will suffer because of it. Now, one of the
[6:46] Speaker 1: reasons why I have such a short fuse when it
[6:48] Speaker 1: comes to Albanese, but particularly for charmers, is because they
[6:52] Speaker 1: promised something different. Remember that original lie, cost of living
[6:56] Speaker 1: will be lower under a Labor government? Well, of course
[6:59] Speaker 1: it's not. Every single industry, everything's more expensive. Everything, everywhere
[7:03] Speaker 1: is more expensive than it was. Yet they'll keep taking
[7:07] Speaker 1: 52 cents per litre when it comes to fuel. That's
[7:11] Speaker 1: the tax that they put on it. Whatever, who cares?
[7:13] Speaker 1: Look over there. Nothing to see here. And also because
[7:17] Speaker 1: remember their reaction when there was just one interest rate rise.
[7:21] Speaker 1: It happened in May. It happened just before the federal
[7:23] Speaker 1: election that changed the government and meant that those people
[7:26] Speaker 1: ended up in charge of the country. By his own standard,
[7:31] Speaker 1: these same words apply to him. And if they want
[7:34] Speaker 1: to say, B, well, what about the first six months? Okay,
[7:37] Speaker 1: the first five. What about the next five and now
[7:40] Speaker 1: the 15th interest rate rise. Every word he said in
[7:44] Speaker 1: opposition now applies to himself. Supplement the word Morrison for Albanese.
[7:51] Speaker 1: Supplement the word Liberal for Labor. And tell me, what
[7:54] Speaker 1: would Jim Chalmers think of 15 interest rate rises?
[7:59] Speaker 6: This is a full blown cost of living crisis on
[8:02] Speaker 6: Scott Morrison's watch. This Prime Minister has an excuse for
[8:06] Speaker 6: everything and a plan for nothing. The issue that we
[8:09] Speaker 6: have with Scott Morrison is not that he doesn't take
[8:13] Speaker 6: responsibility for every aspect of this, it's that he takes
[8:16] Speaker 6: responsibility for none of this whatsoever. And when things are
[8:20] Speaker 6: going well, he's in front of the camera claiming all
[8:22] Speaker 6: the credit. When times are tough, he takes none of
[8:26] Speaker 6: the responsibility.
[8:28] Speaker 1: Now, we have seen that this is a bloke who
[8:29] Speaker 1: knows how to get himself to Canberra, including on days
[8:32] Speaker 1: that are not sitting days. Today was a day when
[8:36] Speaker 1: Jim Chalmers showed a cowardly side of his personality, because
[8:40] Speaker 1: this press conference wasn't held with the usual media in tow.
[8:43] Speaker 1: It wasn't held in central Brisbane. It was, of course,
[8:47] Speaker 1: done by distance at a local park in Brisbane, meaning
[8:52] Speaker 1: the types of people who are asking him questions are
[8:54] Speaker 1: not the same ones that We're asking him questions last
[8:59] Speaker 1: time the rates went up, all the time before that,
[9:01] Speaker 1: all the time before that. So, of course, Chalmers was
[9:05] Speaker 1: out and about there today. And, again, what would Chalmers
[9:08] Speaker 1: really think if 15 rate rises had happened under the Liberals?
[9:13] Speaker 1: Yet still, no, he's completely different. Remember his criticism? They
[9:17] Speaker 1: don't take responsibility for anything. They're only there for the
[9:19] Speaker 1: good news. Well, look at the mirror, pal.
[9:23] Speaker 6: Australians are under pressure already and we know that this
[9:27] Speaker 6: will make things harder for people. The fact that inflation
[9:31] Speaker 6: and interest rates are going up right around the world
[9:34] Speaker 6: doesn't take the sting out of this for Australians who
[9:36] Speaker 6: are already doing it tough.
[9:39] Speaker 1: And sadly, there's going to be more of it. Again,
[9:41] Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank Governor. Now again, the Reserve Bank... In
[9:44] Speaker 1: the lead-up to all of this, they kept rates too
[9:46] Speaker 1: low for too long. Remember when Philip Lowe, the former Governor,
[9:49] Speaker 1: was saying, don't worry about anything until 2024? Well, of course,
[9:53] Speaker 1: things started to go crazy in 2022 and they took
[9:54] Speaker 1: their foot off.
[10:00] Speaker 1: The brake and they touched the accelerator again and inflation
[10:03] Speaker 1: went out of control when they gave a gift to
[10:06] Speaker 1: the government. And this was one of the single biggest
[10:09] Speaker 1: determinants in the size of the Albanese win in 2025
[10:13] Speaker 1: was that February rate cut. That went down a couple
[10:16] Speaker 1: of times. We have now gone back and now passed
[10:19] Speaker 1: the the mark of where we were before the federal election. Yet,
[10:26] Speaker 1: get ready for a 16th rate rise, perhaps as soon
[10:30] Speaker 1: as before the end of this year. None of this
[10:32] Speaker 1: is good to talk about. All of this is heartbreaking
[10:34] Speaker 1: because in the real world, people are, they're just, they've
[10:38] Speaker 1: had enough. They need hope and there is none tonight.
[10:43] Speaker 5: The board will raise increased interest rates again if that's
[10:46] Speaker 5: what's needed to get inflation down.
[10:49] Speaker 1: Now, I've got to maintain a quiet and cold rage
[10:53] Speaker 1: here because it would be really easy for me to
[10:56] Speaker 1: sit here tonight and scream and abuse these people and
[10:59] Speaker 1: it'd be fun to do it. But as always, I've
[11:02] Speaker 1: got to show you the BS that they are spinning
[11:05] Speaker 1: in real time. Now, again, interest rates have gone up
[11:10] Speaker 1: 15 times. February of this year is when we had...
[11:18] Speaker 1: Two interest rate rises. February, sorry, I should say, we
[11:22] Speaker 1: had interest rate rises, two of them before a bomb
[11:25] Speaker 1: was dropped. Yet, no, no, it's all the Donald Trump
[11:28] Speaker 1: tax that we are paying.
[11:31] Speaker 6: Our inflation challenge is being turbocharged by a war on
[11:35] Speaker 6: the other side of the world. Australians are paying a
[11:38] Speaker 6: very hefty price for that war in the Middle East.
[11:43] Speaker 1: Forgive my language, but it's partially true, but it's mostly BS. Yes.
[11:48] Speaker 1: Have a look at Australia's inflation rate. Now, I'm going
[11:50] Speaker 1: to show you this here, okay? You can see that
[11:54] Speaker 1: this is from May 2025 all the way through to
[11:59] Speaker 1: July 2026. You can see that we were starting to
[12:04] Speaker 1: march our way up in July, in August, in September,
[12:07] Speaker 1: in October, and November in 2025. It got even worse
[12:13] Speaker 1: in December, January, February, and then, yep, there is a
[12:16] Speaker 1: big spike in The tippy top of the hill in
[12:19] Speaker 1: the past couple of years, that is the start of
[12:22] Speaker 1: the Iran war. Because petrol prices firstly went down because
[12:27] Speaker 1: they cut the excise and then secondly because there was
[12:31] Speaker 1: more of it coming in, meant that it started to fall.
[12:36] Speaker 1: But now, right now, the inflation rate is right back
[12:39] Speaker 1: where it was in November 2025 and So, Iran is
[12:45] Speaker 1: part of the picture, but it's not the whole picture.
[12:47] Speaker 1: We had two of the now four interest rate rises
[12:52] Speaker 1: that happened before a bomb was dropped. And while no
[13:00] Speaker 1: government is entirely responsible, they are not completely free of responsibility. Now,
[13:05] Speaker 1: Michelle Bullock, remember, was picked by this Treasurer... because he
[13:10] Speaker 1: didn't like the previous Reserve Bank governor because he was
[13:12] Speaker 1: raising interest rates. Well, she is doing it, hot and hard,
[13:17] Speaker 1: and she's even starting to bell the cat, that while
[13:19] Speaker 1: it's not the whole story, it's part of the story,
[13:21] Speaker 1: which is, one of the reasons that you raise interest
[13:23] Speaker 1: rates is to try to slow the economy, to try
[13:26] Speaker 1: to take the amount of money being spent out of
[13:28] Speaker 1: the economy. But when governments keep spending and spending and spending,
[13:33] Speaker 1: that spending... helps drive the economy to increase inflation. So
[13:38] Speaker 1: when she's asked straight up, what does she say about
[13:41] Speaker 1: government spending?
[13:44] Speaker 5: Inflation is too high and has been driven by domestic
[13:47] Speaker 5: capacity pressures. The inflation impulse from the Middle East conflict
[13:51] Speaker 5: is in addition to this. Domestic spending and investment have
[13:55] Speaker 5: been stronger than expected despite weak sentiment and the softening
[13:59] Speaker 5: in housing market conditions.
[14:01] Speaker 1: Put simply, this is the receipt for the politics that
[14:04] Speaker 1: Australians have become addicted to in the past 20 years.
[14:09] Speaker 1: What's in it for me? When will the government fix
[14:12] Speaker 1: this problem for me? Why won't they spend more money?
[14:16] Speaker 1: When governments turn around and find new ways to spend money. Now,
[14:20] Speaker 1: of course, Anthony Albanese will say, completely not true, because
[14:23] Speaker 1: he makes the assumption there are two types of Australians.
[14:26] Speaker 1: Australians like you and me who pay attention, who call
[14:29] Speaker 1: them out on the BS, and then what he considers
[14:31] Speaker 1: to be the majority of Australians who are not paying
[14:33] Speaker 1: attention and will just think orange man bad when it
[14:36] Speaker 1: comes to their own financial situation.
[14:41] Speaker 2: The truth is that when you have fuel increases... as
[14:46] Speaker 2: you've had as a result of the war in the
[14:48] Speaker 2: Middle East. And what you're seeing is inflationary pressures being
[14:51] Speaker 2: a global phenomenon, which is why you've seen interest rate increases,
[14:56] Speaker 2: including just in the last fortnight in the United States
[15:00] Speaker 2: and in other advanced economies.
[15:02] Speaker 1: But as I told you last night, Australia has now
[15:06] Speaker 1: had more interest rate rises than any of those countries.
[15:09] Speaker 1: Our interest rate is now higher than any of those countries.
[15:13] Speaker 1: And in terms of government spending, again, If you have
[15:15] Speaker 1: a look at the total amount of money that has
[15:17] Speaker 1: been spent by this government, the budget that they inherited,
[15:20] Speaker 1: which was 2021-22, the first one they had, which was 22-23,
[15:23] Speaker 1: to where we are right now, to 25-26, where spending's
[15:27] Speaker 1: gone from $ 600 to $ 780b4 billion. Oh, but that's because
[15:32] Speaker 1: the Australian population is ageing and growing. Come on. Not
[15:34] Speaker 1: by that much. And remember, all of this results in
[15:39] Speaker 1: more deficits, a trillion dollars' worth of debt, and deficits
[15:42] Speaker 1: that run because of, in part, this type of politics.
[15:47] Speaker 1: And Joe Hockey is correct that it is only a
[15:49] Speaker 1: shock that will change people, but we know how politically
[15:51] Speaker 1: unpalatable that is. 40 years of deficits. It only gets
[15:56] Speaker 1: worse from here. Now, they can blame anyone and they
[16:00] Speaker 1: can pretend they have nothing to see here and we're
[16:02] Speaker 1: not responsible. Well, if you take the plaudence on the
[16:05] Speaker 1: way down, you've got to take the arse-kicking on the
[16:07] Speaker 1: way up. There have now been 15 times life got
[16:11] Speaker 1: worse under this government, the government that promised to make
[16:14] Speaker 1: cost of living cheaper. But, of course... It's just found
[16:18] Speaker 1: new ways to move a dollar from here to spend
[16:21] Speaker 1: $ 1. 50 there or to spend $ 2 there. And anyone who
[16:25] Speaker 1: calls them out is some sort of evil human being
[16:27] Speaker 1: and anyone who says that maybe, just maybe, governments shouldn't
[16:30] Speaker 1: just exponentially grow. Well, you're about cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.
[16:33] Speaker 1: It's about scaring people that their pensions are going to
[16:36] Speaker 1: go or that Medicare's about to be cut up. Please.
[16:39] Speaker 1: We all know that's not the case. Australians are hurting tonight.
[16:44] Speaker 1: Millions of people are hurting tonight. I share your rage.
[16:47] Speaker 1: I hate what they are doing to the country. I
[16:50] Speaker 1: hate that their politics meant they were able to do
[16:53] Speaker 1: it for another three years. I hate that their politics
[16:58] Speaker 1: will put them in a very good position to be
[17:00] Speaker 1: able to do it in three years after that. I
[17:04] Speaker 1: hope that people are able to link their circumstances to
[17:07] Speaker 1: their government because they were able to do it in 2022.
[17:08] Speaker 1: Can they please do it in 2028 at the federal
[17:10] Speaker 1: level at least? Now, obviously, remember for, well, frankly, the
[17:23] Speaker 1: whole first three years of this government, almost every night
[17:26] Speaker 1: on the show I led with cost of living. Why?
[17:29] Speaker 1: Because it was the thing that was affecting the most
[17:31] Speaker 1: number of people at any one time. It was the
[17:34] Speaker 1: thing that was changing everyone's lives. Yet it's too hard
[17:39] Speaker 1: to really deal with any of that because you can
[17:41] Speaker 1: create winners and losers and politicians don't want to do that.
[17:45] Speaker 1: So we've had endless political distractions. For the Labor Party,
[17:48] Speaker 1: it's about trying to take on social media currently rather
[17:52] Speaker 1: than their own spending. For the Libs, it's about waging
[17:56] Speaker 1: war on net zero, suggesting that somehow all of that
[17:59] Speaker 1: is going to turn around cost of living. For One Nation,
[18:02] Speaker 1: of course, it is all about immigration and immigration being
[18:04] Speaker 1: connected to everything. But the reality is that everything everywhere
[18:10] Speaker 1: has just got more expensive because And until there are
[18:13] Speaker 1: politicians that have ideas to help make Australian life better,
[18:17] Speaker 1: and certainly two out of those three do their best
[18:20] Speaker 1: to come up with them, the reality is everything in
[18:23] Speaker 1: the supermarket is more expensive. Petrol is more expensive. Certainly
[18:29] Speaker 1: if you bought a diesel, and remember you bought a
[18:31] Speaker 1: diesel because you thought it was a cheaper way to
[18:32] Speaker 1: drive around in a car, and let alone 15 interest
[18:36] Speaker 1: rate rises. So what does this do to our politics?
[18:39] Speaker 1: Cos Samaras, a man I always look forward to talking to,
[18:42] Speaker 1: wrote an interesting piece today in the New Daily, which
[18:45] Speaker 1: is sort of funded by Union Super, I think, but
[18:47] Speaker 1: still it's a quite a news service. And he says
[18:51] Speaker 1: that politicians keep talking about immigration, voters keep talking about
[18:54] Speaker 1: their bills. Across most of the last year, Redbridge has
[18:58] Speaker 1: conducted more than 400 focus groups that include voters in
[19:00] Speaker 1: outer suburbs and regional towns across the country. We listened
[19:03] Speaker 1: to them describe what's going wrong. They talked about their
[19:06] Speaker 1: mortgage issues. that seems not to be getting smaller by
[19:10] Speaker 1: the year, the rent that eats into 50% of their
[19:13] Speaker 1: weekly wage, the cost of food, the rising power bill,
[19:16] Speaker 1: the waiting to see the doctor, the strong sense that
[19:18] Speaker 1: nobody in charge wants to listen. They talk about their
[19:21] Speaker 1: kids not being able to leave home. And this is
[19:25] Speaker 1: a big thing that is missing in our politics, the
[19:28] Speaker 1: sense of hope, the sense of hope that they want
[19:33] Speaker 1: to make life easier, Not ever so slightly cheaper for
[19:37] Speaker 1: this certain section of the electoral map that helps them
[19:42] Speaker 1: get across the line. Like, don't worry about that heck stuff,
[19:45] Speaker 1: $ 20 billion. All of that, again, just to push the...
[19:50] Speaker 1: youth vote this way. The housing taxes, which are about
[19:54] Speaker 1: pushing people. This stuff is not about running a country.
[19:57] Speaker 1: It is just about the raw politics of trying to
[20:00] Speaker 1: stay in power. And, yeah, they all to some degree
[20:04] Speaker 1: do it, but this mob, this is what they're obsessed with.
[20:07] Speaker 1: You see it by their own actions. Because they have
[20:10] Speaker 1: no sense of responsibility. Because if you admit responsibility, then
[20:13] Speaker 1: that could be the beginning of the end. Cause goes on. 85%
[20:19] Speaker 1: say the country is headed in the wrong direction. Net
[20:21] Speaker 1: trust with politicians to do the right thing. Is it
[20:25] Speaker 1: negative 90%? 70% say their vote is a tactic to
[20:30] Speaker 1: make the major parties listen. Asked who they blame for
[20:33] Speaker 1: the raising prices and interest rates, 59% say politicians. 14%
[20:35] Speaker 1: say politicians. Immigrants. So again, it's not that everything but
[20:43] Speaker 1: the economy is worth talking about, but the economy is
[20:47] Speaker 1: the main indices about how good, hard or slightly easier
[20:54] Speaker 1: life can be in Australia. The greatest electoral opportunity for
[20:59] Speaker 1: anyone going into the 2028 election is hope. A genuine
[21:04] Speaker 1: hope of being able to improve someone's lives. not just
[21:08] Speaker 1: to quickly buy them off or to distract or to
[21:11] Speaker 1: scare them about voting this way or that way. Let's
[21:16] Speaker 1: see whether hope and at times hard medicine is something
[21:19] Speaker 1: the Australian people will want to engage with. I certainly
[21:22] Speaker 1: hope it still exists. But just because it's the hard
[21:26] Speaker 1: way to do things doesn't mean it is the way
[21:27] Speaker 1: to ignore everything. That'll be much of our discussion between
[21:31] Speaker 1: now and the election when, of course, it comes up
[21:34] Speaker 1: in 2028 and, of course, the Deep hope of everyone
[21:38] Speaker 1: inside Labor is that everyone will forget what happens for
[21:43] Speaker 1: the three and a half years in between elections and
[21:45] Speaker 1: they'll just get scared about the other guy when it
[21:49] Speaker 1: matters most, not for Australia, but for them. Tim Wilson
[21:53] Speaker 1: is the Shadow Treasurer. He's been listening to all of that,
[21:56] Speaker 1: but I want to talk to him a little more
[21:57] Speaker 1: broadly than the challenge I've just put before Australian politicians. He's,
[22:01] Speaker 1: of course, the Shadow Treasurer. Tim... Again, what I think
[22:05] Speaker 1: is really frustrating, and I'm trying to keep a quiet rage,
[22:08] Speaker 1: is people are really, really pissed off tonight. Like my
[22:11] Speaker 1: WhatsApp in my little world, right? People who are not political.
[22:14] Speaker 1: Like the WhatsApp chats that are about footy tipping competitions
[22:18] Speaker 1: are blowing up deluxe tonight. So to see a government
[22:22] Speaker 1: with a treasurer who didn't even have the balls to
[22:24] Speaker 1: turn up anywhere near an office so he wouldn't have
[22:27] Speaker 1: to answer a question from anyone who really knew what
[22:30] Speaker 1: they were asking. kind of sells you the whole thing
[22:32] Speaker 1: about how they're just managing the media, not the economy.
[22:37] Speaker 3: You're 100 percent right, Paul, and I did listen to
[22:39] Speaker 3: your introductory piece and I couldn't agree with you more.
[22:43] Speaker 3: The challenge Australians are facing right now is that they're
[22:46] Speaker 3: sitting around the kitchen tables of the nation And they're
[22:49] Speaker 3: asking themselves, I don't have anything left to cut. What
[22:52] Speaker 3: is the government expecting me to cut? We know that
[22:54] Speaker 3: government spending is currently at a 40-year high outside of
[22:58] Speaker 3: a crisis or pandemic. If the Treasurer had and the
[23:03] Speaker 3: Prime Minister had pulled their built-in as much as they
[23:06] Speaker 3: expect Australian households, the budget would be $ 22 billion in surplus. Instead,
[23:11] Speaker 3: what is happening is the government just keeps spending with
[23:13] Speaker 3: gay abandon. It's stoking inflation. It's putting upward pressure on
[23:17] Speaker 3: interest rates, which means someone who's got a new mortgage
[23:21] Speaker 3: today will be paying $ 31, 000 more in debt servicing this year. And,
[23:25] Speaker 3: of course, they go to the supermarket. Not only are
[23:28] Speaker 3: they being asked not put things in the trolley, but
[23:30] Speaker 3: when they get to the checkout, they're putting things into
[23:33] Speaker 3: the trolley and they're getting less and paying more.
[23:37] Speaker 1: So, again, I understand that we are part of a
[23:40] Speaker 1: greater world. We don't live in a world of 30
[23:42] Speaker 1: years ago, let alone 50 years ago, where Australia's capacity
[23:46] Speaker 1: to be this island that could at times live amongst itself.
[23:49] Speaker 1: I get all of that. But what are things government
[23:52] Speaker 1: can do?
[23:55] Speaker 3: Well, the key thing that government can do is it
[23:57] Speaker 3: can control its own spending because when you've got a
[24:00] Speaker 3: 40-year high... outside of a pandemic, and you showed your
[24:03] Speaker 3: graph there before and it was a perfect demonstration of it,
[24:07] Speaker 3: is the government is actually the key contributor because the
[24:11] Speaker 3: first interest rate hike this year happened on the 3rd
[24:14] Speaker 3: of February. It was off the back of last year
[24:15] Speaker 3: data and it was a full month before the first
[24:19] Speaker 3: bomb had dropped on Iran. We've had three this year
[24:23] Speaker 3: until today. And of course, most other advanced and developed
[24:27] Speaker 3: economies have not seen an.
[24:28] Speaker 1: Increase in interest rates.
[24:30] Speaker 3: So we're starting from a weak and a poor position
[24:33] Speaker 3: because of domestic pressure. No one's ignoring the fact they're
[24:36] Speaker 3: international factors, but it's compounding the problem that Australians are experiencing.
[24:42] Speaker 3: And what we've had is a government whose only answer
[24:44] Speaker 3: to every problem is to stoke inflation further and make
[24:47] Speaker 3: it worse in the hope they can get through a
[24:49] Speaker 3: new cycle. What we need is governments to pull their
[24:52] Speaker 3: belt in firstly before they ask Australians to do so.
[24:56] Speaker 3: But then we actually ultimately need economic reform that's going
[24:59] Speaker 3: to drive investment to get energy prices down. but to
[25:02] Speaker 3: get investment back into the Australian economy, to free up
[25:05] Speaker 3: the labour market, but exactly as you said, to give
[25:08] Speaker 3: Australians hope that tomorrow can be better than it is
[25:10] Speaker 3: today if we work together as a team and as
[25:13] Speaker 3: a country.
[25:15] Speaker 1: Now, also, we're in a scenario where that sense of
[25:19] Speaker 1: hope is really important, right? That sense of a government
[25:22] Speaker 1: actually listening here Politically, we know what this mob's going
[25:27] Speaker 1: to do, which is that, again, it's all about thinking, OK,
[25:29] Speaker 1: all the pain happens now and that eventually if they
[25:31] Speaker 1: get one little drop somewhere in 28 and everyone's distracted
[25:35] Speaker 1: by whatever Trump is doing in the final Eurovision presidency,
[25:38] Speaker 1: then that will be enough to be able to get
[25:40] Speaker 1: things back on their side. But I wanted to ask
[25:42] Speaker 1: you something here, which is inevitably, when one of our
[25:45] Speaker 1: guests comes up later, they're going to say it's all
[25:47] Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank's fault or it's all private companies' fault.
[25:50] Speaker 1: because the Reserve Bank waited too long and private companies
[25:53] Speaker 1: are making too much money. Do you agree with either
[25:56] Speaker 1: of those prepositions, which I know you are pre-answering here,
[25:59] Speaker 1: but we're probably going to be debating in the next
[26:01] Speaker 1: 10 minutes or so?
[26:03] Speaker 3: Well, frankly, both of them are fanciful. The Reserve Bank
[26:06] Speaker 3: has been forced into this position by the spending addiction
[26:10] Speaker 3: of the government. The Reserve Bank doesn't sit there and go,
[26:13] Speaker 3: we'd like to tweak with the interest rates based on preference.
[26:16] Speaker 3: They make decisions based on the underlying data of the
[26:20] Speaker 3: entire economy. They look at where inflation is going.
[26:23] Speaker 7: And as we know.
[26:25] Speaker 3: underlying inflation, which is what they benchmarked off, has been
[26:28] Speaker 3: persistent at 3.6%. We've had movements.
[26:31] Speaker 1: Because of Iran.
[26:32] Speaker 3: No one's arguing that. But the underlying problem has remained
[26:36] Speaker 3: the same. And if Iran disappeared tomorrow, it would still
[26:39] Speaker 3: be there. That's why we know it's domestic. And it's
[26:41] Speaker 3: very clearly caused by that. And the Reserve Bank governor
[26:44] Speaker 3: basically said that very clearly today. The idea that it's
[26:47] Speaker 3: driven by company profits is frankly a fanciful proposition. What
[26:53] Speaker 3: we have is a problem where we're not getting enough
[26:55] Speaker 3: small businesses building the future of this country. It's the
[26:58] Speaker 3: failure to grow the economy and back productivity and particularly
[27:03] Speaker 3: growing the economy for businesses. people who want to invest
[27:06] Speaker 3: in their future. In fact, the last federal budget has
[27:08] Speaker 3: really smashed confidence in small businesses, which, if it's done anything,
[27:13] Speaker 3: has helped aid big business to concentrate their economic power.
[27:17] Speaker 3: But it's not actually the driver of the problem of
[27:20] Speaker 3: inflation at all.
[27:22] Speaker 1: All right. Thank you very much, Tim. Again, it is just...
[27:24] Speaker 1: The white hot rage. It's the only way I can
[27:26] Speaker 1: be right now. No, no doubt yourself the same. All right.
[27:29] Speaker 1: All the best, mate. Thank you. Tim Wilson, of course,
[27:31] Speaker 1: the shadow treasurer there joining us from Melbourne. Again, it's
[27:34] Speaker 1: just one of those nights where I was thinking about
[27:36] Speaker 1: how to do this today and bells and whistles and
[27:39] Speaker 1: breathing fire was kind of the easy way to go.
[27:41] Speaker 1: The slow and steady way is the way that I
[27:44] Speaker 1: think we have to go and we will continue that.
[27:46] Speaker 1: vain in a moment or two's time here because things
[27:49] Speaker 1: got worse for millions of Australians today. So, yep, a
[27:51] Speaker 1: little more on the rates, but there's lots of other
[27:53] Speaker 1: stuff to get to, including a whole bunch of stuff
[27:56] Speaker 1: that I know you're looking forward to. More in a
[27:58] Speaker 1: moment here on Paul Murray Live and Nigel Farage before
[28:01] Speaker 1: we're done. Thanks for watching. Thank you so much for watching.
[28:09] Speaker 1: A reminder, we're going to be heading to Karratha in
[28:11] Speaker 1: Western Australia for Our Town in a couple of weeks' time.
[28:13] Speaker 1: Thanks to our dear friends at Harvey Norman, our opportunity
[28:16] Speaker 1: to say g'day to the whole country. Takes us to
[28:18] Speaker 1: WA Sunday the 25th of October. Tickets are free, but
[28:22] Speaker 1: you do need to register at ourtown at news24. com. au, ourtown
[28:26] Speaker 1: at news24. com. au. All right, let's get into it right now.
[28:31] Speaker 1: Kallis Quaremba, of course, member of the Upper House in
[28:33] Speaker 1: South Australia, representative of One Nation. Lots to talk about
[28:36] Speaker 1: with him, including an attempted hit job that was kind
[28:38] Speaker 1: of weak on the ABC last night about One Nation.
[28:41] Speaker 1: We'll get to that. Stephen Conroy, always here to help.
[28:44] Speaker 1: And do you like that I introduce what I know
[28:47] Speaker 1: to be your reaction to the 15th interest rate rise
[28:50] Speaker 1: under Labor in the interview getting ready for it here?
[28:54] Speaker 1: So let's just simply deal here, Stephen, where... Yes, the
[28:59] Speaker 1: Reserve Bank, they have gone again hard, they're going to
[29:02] Speaker 1: go again, people are going to continue to hurt, all
[29:04] Speaker 1: the rest of it, right? Yes, there are some companies
[29:07] Speaker 1: that do make too much money. But is there anything
[29:10] Speaker 1: you would say about this government's economic choices or performance
[29:14] Speaker 1: that contributes to the environment that has now seen interest
[29:18] Speaker 1: rates go up again?
[29:20] Speaker 7: Well, I can understand Tim Wilson wants to try and
[29:25] Speaker 7: pretend that, 99% of the statement by the Reserve Bank
[29:30] Speaker 7: didn't exist and that it's 100% about the government and
[29:35] Speaker 7: government spending. But fundamentally, the government does not share the
[29:39] Speaker 7: capital attitude that Michelle Bullock and the board have towards
[29:44] Speaker 7: ordinary Australians. The government are not going to crash the
[29:48] Speaker 7: economy because Michelle Bullock is having a tanty about the
[29:53] Speaker 7: inflationary expectations that might occur OK, and that's exactly what
[29:59] Speaker 7: their board says. But the government is not going to
[30:03] Speaker 7: put 100,000 to 200,000 people on the unemployment queue like
[30:06] Speaker 7: Michelle Bullock says she's prepared to. Well, I'd invite Michelle
[30:10] Speaker 7: Bullock to go down to the local CES and stand
[30:13] Speaker 7: out front of there and explain to that increased queue
[30:16] Speaker 7: of people going in the door why it's their fault,
[30:19] Speaker 7: why they should be punished because Michelle Bullock doesn't want
[30:22] Speaker 7: to be criticised by the 40 or so banking economists
[30:28] Speaker 7: around the country who want to try and forecast for
[30:32] Speaker 7: more interest rate increases. So, no, the government will not
[30:36] Speaker 7: share that view. It will not say, I'm going to
[30:39] Speaker 7: put 100, 200,000 people on. And, therefore, the criticism of
[30:42] Speaker 7: government spending is entirely divorced from the economic reality of
[30:47] Speaker 7: the Australian individuals who are screaming with rage, not just
[30:52] Speaker 7: over today... but the increases recently.
[30:56] Speaker 1: But wasn't one of the people who voted, because it
[30:58] Speaker 1: was a unanimous vote, was the boss of Treasury. That
[31:01] Speaker 1: was one of the changes Jim Chalmers made to the
[31:03] Speaker 1: group of people who made the decision in and around
[31:07] Speaker 1: the interest rates. The very same person who's in charge
[31:09] Speaker 1: of the same organisation that comes up with the budget
[31:12] Speaker 1: voted to increase interest rates today. So it's not just
[31:14] Speaker 1: Michelle Bullock on a tantee. It was the head of
[31:16] Speaker 1: Treasury who agreed.
[31:21] Speaker 7: Well, the head of Treasury should have a conversation today
[31:23] Speaker 7: about why he wants to put 200,000 Australians onto the
[31:27] Speaker 7: unemployment queue. He should come out and give a speech
[31:31] Speaker 7: in his position as head of Treasury about why he
[31:33] Speaker 7: thinks that's a good idea, because that is what Michelle
[31:37] Speaker 7: Bullock and the Reserve Bank Monetary Board have said. We
[31:44] Speaker 7: are prepared to push the economy into a lower growth
[31:48] Speaker 7: slash recession. Now, I get that from the Pommy Wanker,
[31:53] Speaker 7: who was on their Reserve Bank board equivalent, who pushed
[31:56] Speaker 7: the British economy into a recession it has not yet
[32:00] Speaker 7: recovered from. I get his form. He's done it before.
[32:04] Speaker 7: But there is no excuse for these people to so
[32:07] Speaker 7: cavalierly decide that they're going to put 100,000 to 200,000,
[32:12] Speaker 7: possibly more, depending on whether or not these people choose to, like,
[32:16] Speaker 7: literally hand the keys back in because they can't afford...
[32:20] Speaker 7: to keep the repayments going.
[32:22] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[32:23] Speaker 7: And I'll tell you what makes people, you know, hurt
[32:27] Speaker 7: more than an interest rate increase. It's losing their job
[32:30] Speaker 7: and losing their home.
[32:31] Speaker 1: Yes. That hurts a lot more.
[32:33] Speaker 3: Yes.
[32:33] Speaker 7: Well, Michelle Bullock is driving the Australian economy towards that,
[32:37] Speaker 7: and the government is not going to agree with them.
[32:40] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look, it'll be fascinating to see here.
[32:42] Speaker 1: But again, if the government wants to take the credit
[32:45] Speaker 1: on the way down, they've got to cop the hit
[32:46] Speaker 1: on the way up. Carlos, again, your thoughts on how
[32:50] Speaker 1: people are reacting? Because again, I just think, you know, yes,
[32:53] Speaker 1: there's all the official economics of it. And yes, there's
[32:56] Speaker 1: all the sort of political consequences of it. But I
[32:58] Speaker 1: just couldn't help but think that as you were exhaling
[33:00] Speaker 1: a couple of times, during that conversation. And again, I'm
[33:03] Speaker 1: thinking about just, you know, random WhatsApp chats. The collective
[33:07] Speaker 1: sigh out of Australia was, dear God, like, how many
[33:10] Speaker 1: bricks am I supposed to have in my backpack every
[33:14] Speaker 1: single day?
[33:16] Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, Paul. And it just gets harder and
[33:19] Speaker 4: harder every day. And the people that I speak to,
[33:22] Speaker 4: I was down in the south-east of the States only
[33:24] Speaker 4: last week with Barnaby, they just want to get on
[33:27] Speaker 4: with their lives and they're finding that the government by
[33:29] Speaker 4: hook or by crook, just make things harder. Their spending
[33:32] Speaker 4: is out of control. And I understand some of the
[33:35] Speaker 4: economics around this. But at the end of the day,
[33:37] Speaker 4: all I'm hearing is excuses. It was the last government.
[33:40] Speaker 4: It was this government. They did this. They did that.
[33:42] Speaker 4: And while they're all squabbling, the average punter is hurting
[33:46] Speaker 4: and hurting a lot. And I don't see any solutions
[33:48] Speaker 4: coming out of either of the two parties. And that's
[33:50] Speaker 4: why we're going to do what we got to actually
[33:53] Speaker 4: change things around.
[33:54] Speaker 1: And you're right.
[33:54] Speaker 4: There could be some tough decisions that have to be
[33:56] Speaker 4: made because otherwise we're just in a managed decline at
[33:59] Speaker 4: the moment and it's not getting better for anybody.
[34:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, but obviously we know also the politics that we
[34:05] Speaker 1: live in right now, right, which is any attempt to
[34:09] Speaker 1: change the trajectory of government spending is immediately answered by
[34:14] Speaker 1: the Labor Party and its ads on cuts, cuts, cuts, right? Yet,
[34:17] Speaker 1: of course, when the government wants to turn around and
[34:19] Speaker 1: say that they've found some sorts of savings here and there,
[34:22] Speaker 1: You know, nothing to see here, right? We're seeing what's
[34:24] Speaker 1: happening with the NDIS, all the rest of it here. Carlos,
[34:27] Speaker 1: we have seen the Labor Party be able to get
[34:30] Speaker 1: many more years in office, certainly at the state level,
[34:33] Speaker 1: and I would argue most recently at the federal level,
[34:35] Speaker 1: than they have deserved with this particular tactic. Any attempt
[34:39] Speaker 1: to talk about a recalibration in the structural deficit that
[34:43] Speaker 1: means we are in debt for the next... deficits for
[34:45] Speaker 1: the next 40 years is met with ooga-booga music, black-and-white photos,
[34:50] Speaker 1: and that's what the election becomes about.
[34:53] Speaker 4: You know, that's right, Paul. But I look at countries
[34:55] Speaker 4: like where I was born in Argentina. It didn't happen overnight.
[34:58] Speaker 4: It happened over a long period of time because people
[35:00] Speaker 4: weren't prepared to take a hit short term for a
[35:03] Speaker 4: long term gain. We just keep going down this path.
[35:06] Speaker 4: It's going to get worse. Productivity is in the toilet.
[35:09] Speaker 4: You know, and while we talk about employment being record lows,
[35:13] Speaker 4: there's a huge amount of people that are underemployed in
[35:15] Speaker 4: this country. Productivity is one of our biggest things that
[35:18] Speaker 4: we have to change. Look, it's not going to happen
[35:20] Speaker 4: just one lever. There's a lot of levers we've got
[35:22] Speaker 4: to pull, but we have to have those hard decisions.
[35:25] Speaker 4: And I think you alluded to it earlier, the people
[35:27] Speaker 4: of Australia are ready to make those decisions.
[35:29] Speaker 1: Well, I hope so, but we'll see what happens. All right,
[35:31] Speaker 1: one more time, a reminder, when interest rates went up once,
[35:35] Speaker 1: this was Jim Chalmers. What would Jim Chalmers say about
[35:38] Speaker 1: Jim Chalmers now that they've had 15 increases on Labor's
[35:42] Speaker 1: Watch roll the tape?
[35:43] Speaker 6: This is a full-blown cost of living crisis on Scott
[35:46] Speaker 6: Morrison's watch. This Prime Minister has an excuse for everything
[35:51] Speaker 6: and a plan for nothing. The issue that we have
[35:54] Speaker 6: with Scott Morrison is not that he doesn't take responsibility
[35:58] Speaker 6: for every aspect of this, it's that he takes responsibility
[36:01] Speaker 6: for none of this whatsoever. And when things are going well,
[36:05] Speaker 6: he's in front of the camera claiming all the credit.
[36:07] Speaker 6: When times are tough, he takes none of the responsibility.
[36:12] Speaker 1: Now, apparently one of the things that is helping to
[36:13] Speaker 1: push up inflation here, Stephen, is the absolute construction boom
[36:17] Speaker 1: that's happening right now in and around interest... Sorry, in
[36:19] Speaker 1: and around data centres. Now, there's so much politics in
[36:23] Speaker 1: and around data centres where, again, there's the NIMBY factor
[36:26] Speaker 1: of it. I get all of that. Then there are
[36:27] Speaker 1: others who say, well, if we don't get involved in
[36:29] Speaker 1: the AI revolution, then, you know, we're going to be
[36:31] Speaker 1: left behind. This is the new version of agriculture in
[36:34] Speaker 1: terms of what the country can be based off. What
[36:37] Speaker 1: are some of the things that... we can do to
[36:41] Speaker 1: try to tap the brake? Because obviously it'd be easy
[36:45] Speaker 1: to say, well, no more data centers. But that's not
[36:47] Speaker 1: going to be an option. But if more data centers
[36:49] Speaker 1: equals more inflation, then people are going to demand less
[36:51] Speaker 1: data centers, right?
[36:56] Speaker 7: Look, that's one of the conundrums of the Reserve Bank's decision.
[37:01] Speaker 7: It says we need to do something about productivity. And
[37:04] Speaker 7: then it criticizes business for increasing investment in something that
[37:09] Speaker 7: most individuals who talk about this think will increase productivity. So, look,
[37:17] Speaker 7: you know, Australian mortgage holders pay the price because we're
[37:20] Speaker 7: building some of the investment that we need to be
[37:23] Speaker 7: more productive. Yep, no, it's got to be those poor
[37:25] Speaker 7: mugs with mortgages that have to pay the price for that.
[37:29] Speaker 7: In terms of the overall debate around data centres, I
[37:33] Speaker 7: think there's been a recent COAG meeting The Victorian Government
[37:38] Speaker 7: have just put out a plan, the New South Wales Government,
[37:40] Speaker 7: the Queensland Government, all got different ways to try and
[37:43] Speaker 7: deal with it. But people want to make sure that
[37:46] Speaker 7: there's enough water available. People want to make sure that
[37:48] Speaker 7: it's not some monolith sitting on top of their house. And,
[37:53] Speaker 7: you know, the Victorian Government have proposed to put in
[37:56] Speaker 7: place a sort of 150-metre limit from houses you can't
[37:59] Speaker 7: build inside of. You've got to make sure that it's
[38:05] Speaker 7: going to be not generating extra energy prices because they
[38:10] Speaker 7: need so much energy, whether it's being provided by renewables
[38:14] Speaker 7: or in Queensland, coal and gas. So there are reasonable
[38:18] Speaker 7: measures that should be and are being put in place
[38:21] Speaker 7: by all governments to say that we want to see
[38:25] Speaker 7: this productive investment. We need to be part of this investment.
[38:29] Speaker 7: Our sovereign national security, a whole range of macro factors
[38:33] Speaker 7: are there. But at the same time, we need a
[38:36] Speaker 7: measured plan to ensure that people don't have to pay
[38:40] Speaker 7: higher prices for it, don't have to pay higher water
[38:43] Speaker 7: rates for it, and have the amenity not overshadowing their homes.
[38:49] Speaker 7: So there are plans, there are discussions, there are good
[38:51] Speaker 7: things that have been agreed to try and get the
[38:54] Speaker 7: balance right to ensure that we do get this incredibly
[38:57] Speaker 7: important investment.
[38:58] Speaker 1: Carlos, I've got Nigel Farage standing by in London, but
[39:00] Speaker 1: I want to talk quickly about AV Jennings, the building
[39:02] Speaker 1: company in South Australia. Why have they left?
[39:06] Speaker 4: Well, it seems like South Australia is probably not the
[39:08] Speaker 4: place where they're going to get the best return on investment,
[39:11] Speaker 4: which is crazy considering we've got a housing crisis here.
[39:14] Speaker 4: All I'm hearing from the state government is more announcements.
[39:17] Speaker 4: We had the Prime Minister here announcing, you know, announce
[39:21] Speaker 4: more houses.
[39:21] Speaker 1: But speak to builders.
[39:23] Speaker 4: I can tell you now, being one, we're not going
[39:25] Speaker 4: to build any more houses until we get rid of
[39:26] Speaker 4: all these, all the red tape, green tape, blue tape,
[39:29] Speaker 4: every other... bloody tape there is that's slowing down the
[39:31] Speaker 4: production of housing and also productivity. It's just getting harder.
[39:35] Speaker 1: No trades around.
[39:36] Speaker 4: And immigration isn't the solution because if it was, we
[39:39] Speaker 4: wouldn't have a skill shortage because of the people we've
[39:41] Speaker 4: imported so far. The whole thing is an absolute disaster. But,
[39:45] Speaker 4: you know, I don't blame them from leaving. They're going
[39:46] Speaker 4: to go where there's money. And obviously in the eastern
[39:48] Speaker 4: seaboard is where it's happening.
[39:50] Speaker 1: All right. Thank you, lads. Do appreciate it. We look
[39:52] Speaker 1: forward to returning to the conversation at another point in time.
[39:55] Speaker 1: Lots to discuss with them in a moment or two's time.
[39:57] Speaker 1: We will be joined by the great Nigel Farage in
[39:59] Speaker 1: London because the Labor Party is having its big conference. Unsurprisingly,
[40:03] Speaker 1: Nigel won't be impressed, but wait till you hear the
[40:05] Speaker 1: reason why. Next. Time for the man who's never boring.
[40:16] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for watching. The great Nigel Farage,
[40:18] Speaker 1: he joins us right now and he joins us from London,
[40:20] Speaker 1: of course, the leader of the Reform Party, the man
[40:22] Speaker 1: that we would love to see as the next Prime
[40:24] Speaker 1: Minister of the United Kingdom. Lovely to see you, sir.
[40:26] Speaker 1: How are you?
[40:29] Speaker 8: Very well indeed. Thank you. Despite all the madness.
[40:32] Speaker 1: That's going on. And plenty. Okay. I've been watching this
[40:36] Speaker 1: from afar. I do not understand how anyone who is
[40:39] Speaker 1: accused of being involved in a plot as serious as
[40:42] Speaker 1: what we have heard about a potential terror threat on
[40:46] Speaker 1: a base of the military that anyone would get bail,
[40:51] Speaker 1: let alone everyone got bail. What the hell is going on?
[40:58] Speaker 8: Well, everyone that got caught got bailed. Important to remember that,
[41:02] Speaker 8: because the husband and wife that discovered this say there
[41:07] Speaker 8: were certainly ten of them, maybe more. So five got
[41:11] Speaker 8: picked up by the police. Now, look, what the Americans
[41:14] Speaker 8: are saying is very different to what the British government
[41:16] Speaker 8: are saying. And let me tell you what I know.
[41:19] Speaker 8: I know that over the course of the last two months, counter-terrorism,
[41:24] Speaker 8: working with our SAS Special Forces... have carried out a
[41:28] Speaker 8: huge number of house raids all around the UK on
[41:32] Speaker 8: houses lived in by Iranian nationals. The fear is, and
[41:36] Speaker 8: by the way, Paul, I've warned about this in Parliament,
[41:39] Speaker 8: the fear is that the Iranian regime has been using
[41:41] Speaker 8: the boats crossing the English Channel to get its operatives
[41:45] Speaker 8: into our country. So when Trump and Rubio say we've
[41:50] Speaker 8: been watching them for some time, there is a lot
[41:52] Speaker 8: of truth to it. Whether they've been watching the actual
[41:56] Speaker 8: five that have been picked up, or just aware of
[41:59] Speaker 8: a bigger threat, no one knows. But it's very, very
[42:02] Speaker 8: difficult to fathom why they are out on bail. It
[42:06] Speaker 8: has to be because there were no explosives in the
[42:09] Speaker 8: van at that moment in time. But it does seem
[42:13] Speaker 8: absolutely extraordinary.
[42:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, the government reaction here is that they
[42:18] Speaker 1: don't really want to talk about it, they don't want
[42:19] Speaker 1: to up it here because they've got an entire sort
[42:22] Speaker 1: of political reset conference that's going on right now as
[42:25] Speaker 1: they're sort of trying to rebadge themselves under the label
[42:29] Speaker 1: of hope. They're really not talking here about the potential
[42:33] Speaker 1: consequences here, are they?
[42:38] Speaker 8: No, look, the fact is that all over the West
[42:40] Speaker 8: there is a very, very extreme, incredibly dangerous Islamist threat.
[42:46] Speaker 8: Let's just be frank about that. And, you know, your guy, Albanese,
[42:50] Speaker 8: our guy, Burnham, would rather not talk about it, rather
[42:54] Speaker 8: hope the whole thing goes away. And it takes you back,
[42:57] Speaker 8: of course, to the central issue of immigration, be it
[43:01] Speaker 8: legal or illegal. You know, we have, and I'll speak
[43:04] Speaker 8: for us now, but after Bondi Beach, I'm guessing the
[43:08] Speaker 8: same applies to you. We have actively allowed people to
[43:12] Speaker 8: come and settle in our country. We've given them benefits, housing,
[43:16] Speaker 8: people that literally hate our way of life, hate our culture,
[43:21] Speaker 8: and want to fundamentally change it. And I think Australia, frankly,
[43:25] Speaker 8: is in the same boat, along with the whole of
[43:27] Speaker 8: the Western world. And it's not just the weakness of
[43:30] Speaker 8: left-wing politicians Labor politicians, actually those on the conservative right
[43:35] Speaker 8: in government, have allowed this to happen over the last
[43:37] Speaker 8: 20 years as well. We are facing a massive threat,
[43:41] Speaker 8: an enemy within, if you like, a fifth column.
[43:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is the thing where, and obviously the
[43:48] Speaker 1: key and biggest example, right, 2019 is when Boris Johnson
[43:53] Speaker 1: is able to absolutely re-establish himself, mega majority, absolute focus
[43:59] Speaker 1: in and around politics, Brexit. Now, yes, COVID happens. But again,
[44:03] Speaker 1: his government, with all of supposedly, you know, the difference
[44:10] Speaker 1: of opinion with Labor, didn't step in, didn't do anything,
[44:14] Speaker 1: didn't do anything to turn it around. And that's why
[44:17] Speaker 1: there needs to be this different way of doing it,
[44:19] Speaker 1: because the rhetoric might be different, the press conferences might
[44:22] Speaker 1: be different. But if the outcome's the same, you need
[44:25] Speaker 1: to move them both on.
[44:29] Speaker 8: Yes, it was under Boris, of course, that the boat
[44:31] Speaker 8: started to come. It was under Boris that migration from
[44:35] Speaker 8: the subcontinent, the Indian subcontinent, reached a third of a
[44:38] Speaker 8: million people every year. It was under Boris that we
[44:42] Speaker 8: had a biggest rise of legal immigration in the history
[44:46] Speaker 8: of our islands. And that, for a prime minister, elected
[44:50] Speaker 8: to carry out Brexit. And it was pretty clear... why
[44:53] Speaker 8: people voted for Brexit, to take back control of our
[44:55] Speaker 8: lives and our borders. And that's why you're seeing this
[44:59] Speaker 8: massive change. That's why you're seeing Pauline Hanson doing well
[45:03] Speaker 8: in the polls, seeing my party doing well in the polls,
[45:06] Speaker 8: seeing Marine Le Pen now odds-on favourite to become the
[45:11] Speaker 8: next French president, seeing Giorgio Maloney in Italy, who's now
[45:15] Speaker 8: been the PM for four years, the longest-serving Italian, continuously
[45:18] Speaker 8: PM since the end of World War II.
[45:20] Speaker 7: The AFD.
[45:22] Speaker 8: winning state elections all over Germany. These new political movements
[45:26] Speaker 8: are rising up everywhere because we've just had enough of, frankly,
[45:30] Speaker 8: what's proved to be the Uniparty. They might talk centre-left,
[45:34] Speaker 8: they might talk centre-right, they've all governed the same, and
[45:37] Speaker 8: I would argue they've all governed against our individual national interests.
[45:43] Speaker 1: I always love watching the expectation game and the media
[45:46] Speaker 1: narrative game that always flows around you, right? So there's
[45:50] Speaker 1: a new version of polling that suggests that, as I'm
[45:53] Speaker 1: sure you do, is that another MMRP poll, one of
[45:58] Speaker 1: these mega polls that basically has turned around and said, oh, well,
[46:01] Speaker 1: Labor might have more seats, but they're still going to
[46:03] Speaker 1: need a coalition, and aha, that means reform won't become
[46:05] Speaker 1: the government. Is anyone actually paying attention? There was basically
[46:10] Speaker 1: duck eggs, zero, nothing at the last federal election. If
[46:13] Speaker 1: in five years you can get yourself to opposition... Now, government, great, right?
[46:17] Speaker 1: That's where everyone of good faith wants you to end up.
[46:20] Speaker 1: But if you can become the dominant opposition party in
[46:24] Speaker 1: one political term, then I love the way they like
[46:26] Speaker 1: to pretend that either the revolution's not existing or the revolution,
[46:30] Speaker 1: unless it gets total power, is a total failure... I
[46:32] Speaker 1: love the way they try to frame reality around you
[46:35] Speaker 1: because so often it's not based in reality.
[46:41] Speaker 8: I went to Edinburgh yesterday. I met the 17 members
[46:44] Speaker 8: of a Scottish Parliament elected for reform on the 7th
[46:48] Speaker 8: of May this year. We're now the joint official opposition.
[46:52] Speaker 8: I went down to Cardiff last week where I met
[46:55] Speaker 8: the 34 representatives we have in the Welsh Parliament. This
[46:59] Speaker 8: time last year, we had zero representatives. in both of
[47:02] Speaker 8: those parliaments.
[47:03] Speaker 1: Zero.
[47:04] Speaker 8: We are the outright opposition in Wales, the joint opposition
[47:07] Speaker 8: in Scotland. What we've done over the course of the
[47:10] Speaker 8: last couple of years has never been seen and never
[47:13] Speaker 8: been done in the history of British politics. And will
[47:17] Speaker 8: there be some bumps in the road? Will there be
[47:21] Speaker 8: some unpleasant things that happen? Will one of our people
[47:23] Speaker 8: make the odd mistake? Of course they will. We're human beings.
[47:27] Speaker 8: But the trajectory is astonishing. And I promise you one thing,
[47:31] Speaker 8: It's going to continue.
[47:33] Speaker 1: 100%. 100%. Thank you for so much of your time.
[47:35] Speaker 1: I can't wait to see you again next week. All
[47:37] Speaker 1: the best to Nigel Farage. Thank you. Thank you, great man.
[47:39] Speaker 1: Of course, Leader of Reform Labor right now in the
[47:41] Speaker 1: UK is having their party conference where, of course, Andy
[47:44] Speaker 1: Burnham's turning around. Oh, here I am. I'm different. I'm
[47:46] Speaker 1: not wearing a tie. But they're going on this sort
[47:49] Speaker 1: of hope has returned vibe. Tell that to anyone who's
[47:53] Speaker 1: got to pay for anything. Tell that for anyone who
[47:55] Speaker 1: can see the open borders that's around. This thing in
[47:59] Speaker 1: politics where you just gaslight people long enough until they
[48:02] Speaker 1: believe it, that up is down, the ghetto mind trick,
[48:05] Speaker 1: all the rest of it. I truly believe that in
[48:07] Speaker 1: the world it's not about who's left or right, it's
[48:09] Speaker 1: about who's paying attention or not. Because if you're paying attention,
[48:12] Speaker 1: you want to flush each and every one of these
[48:14] Speaker 1: governments everywhere. Because the only people who ever gets better
[48:18] Speaker 1: are their lives, not yours. More in a moment here.
[48:20] Speaker 1: The late debate about five minutes away here on News 24.
[48:29] Speaker 1: The Greens are going to select a new leader. I
[48:31] Speaker 1: love how the media's all, oh, it should be Sarah Hansen-Young.
[48:34] Speaker 7: Why?
[48:34] Speaker 1: Why? Let Maureen Faruqi become the queen of that little effort.
[48:40] Speaker 1: And hopefully not this lady. Oh, I know what I'll
[48:56] Speaker 1: be doing on the 10th. Watching Bathurst in Bathurst. Good
[49:00] Speaker 1: luck with your sign-waving day, Darl.

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