# Paul Murray Live | 28 September

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 28 Sep 2026, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/399cfaca-88eb-4e9e-9603-b4d300d6aa12/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

National Police Remembrance Day tomorrow to honour Mia Lay, experts and banks suggest a rate hike is inevitable. Plus, the Rudd-Gillard era arrivals granted permanent residency. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you, Shari. Very big
[0:08] Speaker 1: show tonight.
[0:09] Speaker 2: We've got lots of people to get to, including the
[0:11] Speaker 2: wonderful Senator Jacinta Dampage and Puprice.
[0:13] Speaker 1: We'll get to her in a moment or two's time.
[0:16] Speaker 2: Let us reflect, though, on the past 24 hours and
[0:18] Speaker 2: the next 24 hours because, well, yesterday in Rugby League
[0:23] Speaker 2: was a very special moment for everyone who was anything
[0:26] Speaker 2: but a Panthers fan. Obviously, Panthers not happy to be
[0:29] Speaker 2: bundled out of the semi-finals, but Newcastle, well, they came
[0:33] Speaker 2: from nowhere, bottom of the table last year to top
[0:36] Speaker 2: of the table, sorry, into the grand final this year.
[0:39] Speaker 2: Of course, the Brisbane Lions, their massive celebration, but this
[0:42] Speaker 2: is not a conversation about football because as exciting as
[0:45] Speaker 2: that football game was and it was watched by lots
[0:47] Speaker 2: of people around the country, about four million watching the
[0:50] Speaker 2: AFL as well, the most impactful moment that will live
[0:55] Speaker 2: beyond the football game happened before the football game. This
[0:59] Speaker 2: is when all of the players, silent together, were in
[1:04] Speaker 2: a moment of silence in unison with about 60,000 people.
[1:08] Speaker 2: And that was a moment of silence for the police
[1:11] Speaker 2: officer who died in a car accident last week. She
[1:13] Speaker 2: was in the police vehicle at the time. Mia Lay
[1:17] Speaker 2: is her name. Have a listen to the crowd and
[1:20] Speaker 2: their absolute respect and solemnity for the moment at hand.
[1:27] Speaker 3: We honor Mia, we thank her for her service, and
[1:30] Speaker 3: we extend our deepest sympathies to all who loved her.
[1:34] Speaker 3: Please stand and join us in observing a moment's silence
[1:38] Speaker 3: in memory of Constable Mia Ley.
[1:54] Speaker 2: Now, they didn't turn the microphones down. That was the
[1:56] Speaker 2: natural sound of 60,000 people standing in silence, recognising the
[2:01] Speaker 2: sacrifice of anyone who serves this country via taking care
[2:06] Speaker 2: of us in the suburbs all day, every day in
[2:09] Speaker 2: the police force. Mia's name will be added with another
[2:14] Speaker 2: officer to the two most recent that have lost their
[2:17] Speaker 2: lives in the New South Wales Police Service. Tomorrow is
[2:23] Speaker 2: National Police Remembrance Day, where ceremonies will be held all
[2:28] Speaker 2: over the country. The national focus will be at the
[2:32] Speaker 2: Australian Police Memorial, which is just down from the War
[2:36] Speaker 2: Memorial in Canberra. We visited that location when we were
[2:39] Speaker 2: doing an outtown not that long ago. So tomorrow, when
[2:45] Speaker 2: you have the opportunity on National Police Remembrance Day, take
[2:49] Speaker 2: a moment... To remember the police officers who never came home,
[2:53] Speaker 2: to the families who are forever changed as a result
[2:56] Speaker 2: of firstly their service and then secondly for never coming home.
[2:59] Speaker 2: And this show and I am always pro-police because these
[3:02] Speaker 2: are people who run towards danger when others run the
[3:05] Speaker 2: other way and they meet people on the worst day
[3:09] Speaker 2: of their lives. They have to tell people the most
[3:12] Speaker 2: heartbreaking news about their family members who won't be coming
[3:15] Speaker 2: home and the at times, emotionally draining process of trying
[3:21] Speaker 2: to find people who are those who are criminally responsible
[3:25] Speaker 2: for others no longer being here.
[3:29] Speaker 1: Tomorrow is a day.
[3:30] Speaker 2: To pause for them and to show the same respect
[3:34] Speaker 2: to them that they deserve. Police are special people. The
[3:37] Speaker 2: work they do is impossibly difficult. To any and everyone
[3:41] Speaker 2: who is part of the wider police family, strength and
[3:44] Speaker 2: love for the most recent of losses, but thank you
[3:46] Speaker 2: for what you do. I know 12 hours a day
[3:50] Speaker 2: plus the overtime or an awful lot of paperwork, not
[3:53] Speaker 2: to mention some of the dregs of humanity that at
[3:57] Speaker 2: times you have to deal with. You may forget that
[4:02] Speaker 2: the vast majority of people are not just good people,
[4:04] Speaker 2: but more importantly, they are people who do support you.
[4:07] Speaker 2: Even at times if our courts don't and our politicians
[4:10] Speaker 2: just use weasel words. An example of one of the
[4:15] Speaker 2: literal families inside the police family that are dealing with
[4:18] Speaker 2: this is Mia's father, who spoke so eloquently. Now, remember
[4:22] Speaker 2: the tragedy that his family is dealing with right now
[4:25] Speaker 2: as this beautiful young woman is no longer with us,
[4:27] Speaker 2: taken in the most speedy of ways.
[4:32] Speaker 1: This is what he had to say to the media today.
[4:35] Speaker 4: She's always been a sporty child, blessed with athletic ability. See,
[4:43] Speaker 4: I was happy all the time.
[4:48] Speaker 1: Full of life.
[4:48] Speaker 4: I was extremely happy. Couldn't be prouder of her.
[4:56] Speaker 1: Clem.
[4:58] Speaker 2: The dad in all of us is feeling your pain
[5:00] Speaker 2: but doesn't know what it is like to be walking
[5:03] Speaker 2: in your shoes, but please know that all of those
[5:05] Speaker 2: people at that footy game are representative of people around the.
[5:08] Speaker 1: Country who are moved by.
[5:12] Speaker 2: the loss of your daughter, and are offering all the
[5:14] Speaker 2: strength they possibly can to your family. Again, a little
[5:18] Speaker 2: more about what he had to say about her commitment
[5:21] Speaker 2: to the force.
[5:23] Speaker 4: She wanted to serve and protect people just like her aunt.
[5:31] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[5:32] Speaker 4: The last time we had an in-depth conversation, she was
[5:36] Speaker 4: enjoying herself in the force, really enjoying it.
[5:40] Speaker 1: Just impossibly tough stuff.
[5:42] Speaker 2: To Mia's family, to the wider police family and to
[5:45] Speaker 2: anyone who is remembering somebody who has served the police
[5:48] Speaker 2: in your part of Australia but they never came home,
[5:50] Speaker 2: thank you for their service and strength and love to
[5:52] Speaker 2: the police, not just today, not just tomorrow, but for
[5:57] Speaker 2: every day of the year because without you, I wouldn't
[6:00] Speaker 2: want to think about that world.
[6:03] Speaker 1: To more.
[6:05] Speaker 2: mundane matters of life and death, but of course still
[6:07] Speaker 2: desperately important, is that most likely tomorrow interest rates are
[6:10] Speaker 2: about to go up. There's a two-day meeting of the
[6:12] Speaker 2: Reserve Bank that has taken place. First one today, the
[6:15] Speaker 2: announcement comes tomorrow. And remember, under the government of Anthony Albanese,
[6:20] Speaker 2: there have been 15 interest rate rises. 15 interest rate rises.
[6:25] Speaker 2: And despite the fact that we now have the highest
[6:28] Speaker 2: interest rates in about 15 years, get ready for it
[6:30] Speaker 2: all to happen again tomorrow. Borrowers are bracing for more
[6:34] Speaker 2: repayment pain, with interest rates expected to hit their highest
[6:37] Speaker 2: level in 15 years. With petrol prices soaring, all eyes
[6:42] Speaker 2: are on the Reserve Bank tomorrow as household budgets reach
[6:45] Speaker 2: breaking point. Now, again, you can reduce this to 0.25%
[6:49] Speaker 2: or it could be reduced to how many dollars per month, but,
[6:54] Speaker 2: of course, it is on top of the 15 versions
[6:58] Speaker 2: of this story that have happened since the Albanese government
[7:01] Speaker 2: came to power. The average Australian home loan currently in
[7:06] Speaker 2: Australia is $ 731, 000, ranging from an average of $ 516, 000 in
[7:07] Speaker 2: Tasmania to $ 842, 000 in New South Wales. First home buyers,
[7:11] Speaker 2: their average is about $ 610, 000. The current average variable rate
[7:13] Speaker 2: is somewhere between 6.24% and 6.62% for only occupiers. And
[7:30] Speaker 2: that means that they're spending somewhere between about $ 4, 500 to
[7:33] Speaker 2: $ 4, 680 per month on their mortgage.
[7:34] Speaker 1: If it goes up by 0.25, that's another $ 120 on
[7:35] Speaker 1: top of the home loan. That's $ 1, 400 on top of.
[7:36] Speaker 2: The 15 times they have done that calculation into the
[7:38] Speaker 2: best part... $ 15, 000, $ 20, 000, $ 30, 000 and even $ 40, 000 depending on
[8:00] Speaker 2: the size of the mortgage that is held in Australia.
[8:05] Speaker 2: From the one bedroom unit in the middle of the
[8:06] Speaker 2: city all the way to the acreage in the bush,
[8:10] Speaker 2: there are plenty of people who are at absolute boiling point.
[8:13] Speaker 2: And you've seen in your suburb all sorts of stressed
[8:17] Speaker 2: houses that are starting.
[8:18] Speaker 1: To come on sale.
[8:19] Speaker 2: We're starting to see the pressure that exists in the
[8:22] Speaker 2: market and that's because of Mortgage stress, where, put simply,
[8:26] Speaker 2: the repayments end up being too much that any family
[8:30] Speaker 2: can afford. This is the true cost of Albanese and Labor.
[8:35] Speaker 2: Research from the Polling Group, Roy Morgan, shows 29% of
[8:38] Speaker 2: Australian mortgage holders, that's about 1.5 million people, are currently.
[8:41] Speaker 1: At risk of mortgage stress.
[8:43] Speaker 2: On average, their servicing of a new mortgage requires around 45%
[8:46] Speaker 2: of household income. That's up from when it was just 30%
[8:50] Speaker 2: six years ago. Now, the spin for Jim Chalmers has
[8:58] Speaker 2: already kicked in in and around all of this, including
[9:01] Speaker 2: that apparently there's nothing to see here when it comes
[9:03] Speaker 2: to Australia, because what's happening in Australia is happening all
[9:07] Speaker 2: over the world.
[9:09] Speaker 5: I think it is the universal or near universal expectation
[9:14] Speaker 5: of economists and the market that rates will go up
[9:19] Speaker 5: around the world, including in Australia. If you look right
[9:22] Speaker 5: across the major advanced economies... There is an expectation of
[9:27] Speaker 5: higher interest rates around the world.
[9:29] Speaker 2: What I find extraordinary about this bloke is that he
[9:32] Speaker 2: thinks that people do not pay attention to their own circumstances,
[9:35] Speaker 2: that people pay such little attention to anything that everything
[9:39] Speaker 2: that is bad is the result of what's happening around
[9:42] Speaker 2: the world and everything that's happening in Australia is exactly
[9:44] Speaker 2: the same experience of what's happening around the world.
[9:46] Speaker 1: Well, guess what? It just isn't. We had a look
[9:49] Speaker 1: at this today.
[9:52] Speaker 2: The United States has increased their interest rates just once
[9:56] Speaker 2: this calendar year. New Zealand twice, Japan twice. the UK
[10:01] Speaker 2: and Canada haven't moved. Australia, however, has moved three times.
[10:06] Speaker 2: If it happens tomorrow, that will be four times in
[10:09] Speaker 2: one year. That will be double the number of times
[10:11] Speaker 2: in New Zealand, double the number of times in Japan.
[10:14] Speaker 1: And remember.
[10:16] Speaker 2: that the first two of those three rate rises happened
[10:18] Speaker 2: before a bomb had been dropped in Iran. Don't trust me.
[10:23] Speaker 2: Trust the person who made the decision to increase those
[10:26] Speaker 2: interest rates before the war, before Chalmers was able to
[10:31] Speaker 2: pretend that what's happening here is happening everywhere. Here's Michelle
[10:35] Speaker 2: Bullock from just after they raised rates the second time
[10:39] Speaker 2: this year.
[10:40] Speaker 6: The board decided to raise the cash rate by 25
[10:43] Speaker 6: basis points. Since the start of the year, the cash
[10:47] Speaker 6: rate has now been increased by 75 basis points. These
[10:51] Speaker 6: increases have been necessary to tighten financial conditions and slow
[10:55] Speaker 6: growth in demand in the economy to ensure we get
[10:58] Speaker 6: on top of inflation. Inflation in Australia was already too
[11:01] Speaker 6: high before the recent conflict in the Middle East began.
[11:05] Speaker 2: Remember, that is what the person who is in charge
[11:07] Speaker 2: of the group that is deciding to raise interest rates
[11:10] Speaker 2: because this government didn't do enough.
[11:12] Speaker 1: To fight inflation.
[11:13] Speaker 2: We told you that all the way through 24, all
[11:16] Speaker 2: the way through 25, and it's come home to roost
[11:19] Speaker 2: in 2026.
[11:21] Speaker 1: But, of course, nothing to see here. It's all an
[11:23] Speaker 1: international problem.
[11:24] Speaker 2: Australia's experience with interest rates is no different than everywhere else,
[11:27] Speaker 2: despite the fact that I've just shown you it isn't.
[11:31] Speaker 5: We have an inflation challenge in our economy made much
[11:34] Speaker 5: worse by a war in the Middle East.
[11:37] Speaker 2: And can I just remind you as well that Jim Chalmers,
[11:39] Speaker 2: who will feel your pain and understand that people are
[11:42] Speaker 2: under an awful lot of stress, has had 15 interest
[11:46] Speaker 2: rate rises since he's been the Treasurer. There's been 16
[11:50] Speaker 2: since the very low rates of the COVID period. One
[11:54] Speaker 2: of them happened just before the election in 2022. And
[11:57] Speaker 2: this is what he said when interest rates just went
[12:00] Speaker 2: up once. And compare that to what he says about
[12:03] Speaker 2: his own record, that is 15, maybe tomorrow, 16 times worse.
[12:08] Speaker 5: Than This is a full-blown cost-of-living crisis on Scott Morrison's watch.
[12:14] Speaker 5: This Prime Minister has an excuse for everything and a
[12:17] Speaker 5: plan for nothing. The issue that we have with Scott
[12:21] Speaker 5: Morrison is not that he doesn't take responsibility for every
[12:25] Speaker 5: aspect of this. It's that he takes responsibility for none
[12:28] Speaker 5: of this whatsoever. And when things are going well, he's
[12:31] Speaker 5: in front of the camera claiming all the credit. When
[12:34] Speaker 5: times are tough, he takes none of the responsibility.
[12:39] Speaker 2: These people honestly think we don't remember, that we weren't there,
[12:41] Speaker 2: that we weren't living through all of this, that that
[12:46] Speaker 2: memory-wiping thing from the Men in Black movie is fake,
[12:49] Speaker 2: the Jedi mind trick made up. We remember what's happening
[12:54] Speaker 2: because it is happening to us. It is happening to
[12:57] Speaker 2: our family members. It is happening to the wider society
[13:00] Speaker 2: around us. And no amount of spin and gaslighting is
[13:03] Speaker 2: going to change the inevitable connection that he himself tried
[13:08] Speaker 2: to make and successfully made in terms of a political one,
[13:13] Speaker 2: that the government is responsible for the economic circumstances under
[13:16] Speaker 2: which we live. It was a cost of living crisis,
[13:19] Speaker 2: but now everything's worse. It's an interest rate crisis. Fifteen,
[13:23] Speaker 2: maybe tomorrow, sixteen Times worse than before he just said that.
[13:30] Speaker 2: And another bit of Jim Chalmers' spin. You may well
[13:34] Speaker 2: have heard that there has been a slight improvement in
[13:36] Speaker 2: the federal budget.
[13:38] Speaker 1: The deficit finishing $ 6 billion lower than estimated in May.
[13:43] Speaker 5: Confirming Nine News report of a $ 6 billion improvement to
[13:46] Speaker 5: the budget bottom line.
[13:48] Speaker 7: The budget deficit is $ 6 billion better off. The budget
[13:51] Speaker 7: is $ 6.
[13:51] Speaker 1: Billion better off. I mean, extraordinary, right?
[13:56] Speaker 2: that not only does the government put it out, but
[13:59] Speaker 2: the media writes it down and then the media turns
[14:02] Speaker 2: around and makes it the headline. There's only one headline,
[14:04] Speaker 2: which is Australia owes a trillion dollars and we're in
[14:07] Speaker 2: deficit for the next 40 years.
[14:08] Speaker 1: But here he is again, involved in the spin today.
[14:12] Speaker 2: Now, of course, if you get a little bit lost
[14:14] Speaker 2: in all these things, it's okay, because you have the
[14:16] Speaker 2: budget in May, then you have the mid-year economic review,
[14:19] Speaker 2: and then you have the actual results from the federal budget,
[14:22] Speaker 2: and then there is a sort of end-of-year economic review.
[14:24] Speaker 2: So there's four times that the Treasurer gets to stand
[14:27] Speaker 2: up and make everything seem better than it actually seems,
[14:31] Speaker 2: and then, because he's in charge of deciding what some
[14:35] Speaker 2: of the guesswork is inside the budget, they deliberately make
[14:39] Speaker 2: things slightly more pessimistic in order for things to become
[14:42] Speaker 2: slightly more rosy so they can pretend to the people
[14:45] Speaker 2: who are half paying attention that they actually did anything positive.
[14:49] Speaker 2: I repeat, a trillion dollars in debt and we're in
[14:51] Speaker 2: deficit for the next 40 years. But here's the spin
[14:55] Speaker 2: that the media just run with.
[14:58] Speaker 5: The final budget outcome that we're releasing today shows that
[15:02] Speaker 5: the deficit came in $ 6 billion better than expected and
[15:06] Speaker 5: debt was $ 10. 6 billion lower at the end of the
[15:10] Speaker 5: financial year. We have made a lot of progress in
[15:14] Speaker 5: the budget and we've made more progress since then.
[15:18] Speaker 2: Now, let's compare this back to last week when we
[15:20] Speaker 2: were talking about the intergenerational report. You notice that when
[15:23] Speaker 2: he has good news to tell you, he tells you
[15:25] Speaker 2: that in raw dollar numbers... $ 10 billion here, $ 6 billion there.
[15:30] Speaker 2: But when he comes to, how big will the deficit
[15:32] Speaker 2: be in five years' time? Well, it'll be a percentage
[15:34] Speaker 2: of GDP. Well, what's that number going to be? We'll
[15:37] Speaker 2: get back to you in a second. They just move
[15:39] Speaker 2: the goalposts in front of you and then tell you
[15:41] Speaker 2: you're lying when you saw them do it. The fundamental
[15:46] Speaker 2: about the Australian economy right now is that tomorrow a
[15:49] Speaker 2: third of the country is going to get an even
[15:51] Speaker 2: tighter squeeze potentially. I hope it doesn't happen. I definitely
[15:55] Speaker 2: hope it doesn't happen. But that squeeze that has been
[15:57] Speaker 2: getting ever worse since this government came to power is
[16:00] Speaker 2: going to get even tighter and even worse and even harder.
[16:03] Speaker 1: For people in Australia.
[16:04] Speaker 2: The Treasurer will feel your pain while he was hooking
[16:07] Speaker 2: into the previous government as a full-blown crisis when they
[16:10] Speaker 2: were one, one interest rate rise. I repeat, the only
[16:15] Speaker 2: thing that you need to say about this government when
[16:17] Speaker 2: it comes to economic performance is the truth. The credit
[16:20] Speaker 2: card bill is $ 1 trillion. Oh, but it's $ 10 billion better. Okay,
[16:25] Speaker 2: you know that a trillion is $ 1, 000 billion, right? And
[16:29] Speaker 2: that $ 10 billion compared to $ 1, 000 billion.
[16:33] Speaker 1: You get my point? And as for budget deficits, oh, well,
[16:38] Speaker 1: it's not as bad as we said it would be. Well,
[16:39] Speaker 1: guess what? We're going to spend more than we earn.
[16:41] Speaker 2: This year, next year, the next year, the next year,
[16:43] Speaker 2: the next year, the next year, the next decade, the
[16:45] Speaker 2: next decade, into the 2040s, the 2050s and the 20
[16:48] Speaker 2: damn 60s.
[16:49] Speaker 1: So shove your spin, doctor.
[16:52] Speaker 2: It might work with some, but it doesn't work on
[16:54] Speaker 2: those of us in the real world who see the
[16:56] Speaker 2: consequences of your arrogance and your double standard. But, of course,
[17:00] Speaker 2: to have double standards is just par for the course,
[17:05] Speaker 2: because it's all about the politics.
[17:06] Speaker 1: Isn't it? Every single time.
[17:10] Speaker 2: Now, yet another poll has given a headline about the
[17:13] Speaker 2: performance of One Nation right now, and you may well
[17:16] Speaker 2: have heard that, as we told you last night, that
[17:19] Speaker 2: the news poll... has been able to break down preferred
[17:22] Speaker 2: prime minister in all of the states. And the senator
[17:25] Speaker 2: from Queensland, who is up for re-election at the next
[17:27] Speaker 2: federal election, by the way, is apparently the preferred prime
[17:29] Speaker 2: minister in her home state.
[17:32] Speaker 5: Pauline Hanson is riding a wave of support in Queensland,
[17:35] Speaker 5: with One Nation now well ahead of the major parties
[17:39] Speaker 5: on a primary vote.
[17:40] Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson has taken the lead.
[17:42] Speaker 8: Other people can comment on that, but I just want
[17:44] Speaker 8: to say that we're doing what we said we were
[17:45] Speaker 8: going to do.
[17:46] Speaker 7: According to new polling, the One Nation leader is winning
[17:49] Speaker 7: over her home state.
[17:51] Speaker 1: Excellent.
[17:52] Speaker 2: Now, something that is a little more interesting to me
[17:55] Speaker 2: than the preferred Prime Minister number in the States is
[17:57] Speaker 2: to have.
[17:57] Speaker 1: A look at the primary vote across all of the states.
[18:01] Speaker 2: Now, you basically have a scenario here where, as you
[18:03] Speaker 2: can see in the headlines, New South Wales, Western Australia, Queensland,
[18:06] Speaker 2: they're the hottest places for One Nation.
[18:10] Speaker 1: For the Coalition, their best state is Victoria. Why?
[18:14] Speaker 2: Well, of course, because there would be a direct correlation
[18:17] Speaker 2: between what is happening in Victoria with the state parliamentary
[18:20] Speaker 2: party and the federal parliamentary party. The worst position right now,
[18:25] Speaker 2: as we keep rolling through the states there, for the
[18:29] Speaker 2: Labor Party is Queensland at just 25%. As for the Greens,
[18:35] Speaker 2: their best position is in Victoria and the other column
[18:38] Speaker 2: is getting smaller by the poll. Fascinating to watch here
[18:42] Speaker 2: as we see the primary vote in New South Wales
[18:44] Speaker 2: and Victoria and Queensland and in Western Australia. Western Australia,
[18:47] Speaker 2: that primary vote now. Basically, only having one point in
[18:49] Speaker 2: between really matters. Of course, for anyone simply doing the maths, 29, 21,
[18:56] Speaker 2: bang on 50.
[18:56] Speaker 1: But, of course, it's all about preferences.
[18:58] Speaker 2: What you do with the second number that you put
[19:01] Speaker 2: on a ballot paper will determine who the government is. Now,
[19:05] Speaker 2: there are former Labor voters that are thinking about going
[19:08] Speaker 2: to One Nation. There are former Coalition voters going to
[19:10] Speaker 2: One Nation. But if you want a change of government,
[19:13] Speaker 2: regardless of what you do with number one, you've got
[19:15] Speaker 2: to make sure.
[19:17] Speaker 2: But there is an alternative party that you want to
[19:19] Speaker 2: put at number two, they get the preference and there
[19:21] Speaker 2: is a change in the government.
[19:24] Speaker 1: The only way that happens, all right? Greens last, Labor
[19:27] Speaker 1: not far from them.
[19:30] Speaker 2: Now, again, we were sitting here, 2013, watching tens of
[19:34] Speaker 2: thousands of people entering the country illegally by boats. Tens
[19:39] Speaker 2: of thousands that paid people smugglers to come from places
[19:42] Speaker 2: like Indonesia to come to the country.
[19:45] Speaker 1: Why?
[19:45] Speaker 2: Because the then Labor government, between 2007 and 2013, kind
[19:50] Speaker 2: of left the door open.
[19:51] Speaker 1: Why?
[19:51] Speaker 2: Because they were responding to the nasty Liberals who, of course,
[19:55] Speaker 2: from 1996 to 2007 had.
[19:57] Speaker 1: The door locked tight.
[19:59] Speaker 2: Of course, the consequence of all of that was not
[20:02] Speaker 2: just the tens of thousands of people turned up here illegally.
[20:06] Speaker 2: But also that about 1,000 people died on their way
[20:09] Speaker 2: to coming here, including, of course, remember the boat off
[20:11] Speaker 2: Christmas Island? I know this stuff is 2010. For anyone who's,
[20:16] Speaker 2: you know, older than 35, it feels like two weeks ago.
[20:23] Speaker 1: But, of course, that is 16 years ago. Now, the
[20:26] Speaker 1: lesson was pretty clearly learnt.
[20:28] Speaker 2: It was one that supposedly we all thought had been
[20:30] Speaker 2: learnt by both sides of politics, that this was something
[20:32] Speaker 2: that even Anthony Albanese had claimed... despite the fact that
[20:35] Speaker 2: he said he'd never turn a boat around, that he
[20:37] Speaker 2: was fine to continue doing it once he became the
[20:40] Speaker 2: Prime Minister. But those of us that have actually been
[20:42] Speaker 2: paying attention knew that Anthony Albanese, who never, never supported
[20:49] Speaker 2: the tough line that saved lives but did end up
[20:52] Speaker 2: with thousands of people in detention because they are here illegally,
[20:56] Speaker 2: was always going to find a way to let them
[20:58] Speaker 2: off the hook. This has been coming for some time.
[21:01] Speaker 2: People that were on temporary protection visas now are on
[21:04] Speaker 2: permanent visas. And we now look here that apparently 19,000
[21:10] Speaker 2: permanent residency visas have been given to people who got
[21:13] Speaker 2: here illegally. So in the end, it worked. They paid
[21:18] Speaker 2: someone to get here. They waited out the system. And
[21:21] Speaker 2: eventually the party, who always wanted to let them off
[21:25] Speaker 2: the hook, didn't just let them off the hook, but
[21:27] Speaker 2: have now made them permanent residents of of this country. Now,
[21:32] Speaker 2: under the people who did the hard yards in Operation
[21:34] Speaker 2: Sovereign Borders are furious.
[21:37] Speaker 6: Is like categorically underlined capital letters.
[21:42] Speaker 9: The Labor Party has lost control of the migration system.
[21:49] Speaker 2: Now, there's been some fairly heavy rain in the United States. Now,
[21:53] Speaker 2: this has been in New Jersey. There's been some pretty
[21:55] Speaker 2: bad floods there of recent days. But there is one
[21:58] Speaker 2: little part of this story that I really want to
[22:00] Speaker 2: show you, which is not just the obvious devastation that
[22:02] Speaker 2: comes with natural disasters, but I'll let the local news
[22:06] Speaker 2: channel 12 tell you, did somebody just see a shark
[22:10] Speaker 2: swimming up the middle of the street?
[22:13] Speaker 1: Check out this video from Surf City. It appears to be,
[22:15] Speaker 1: take a look, yes, a small shark swimming around in
[22:20] Speaker 1: the flood.
[22:21] Speaker 2: Water right there in the street with those fins letting
[22:26] Speaker 2: you know, I'm here, you stay away.
[22:30] Speaker 1: It is amazing.
[22:30] Speaker 2: Americans do television better than anyone else in the world,
[22:32] Speaker 2: but the local news is always so crap. I never
[22:34] Speaker 2: understand that. You would have thought it was like reserve grade,
[22:36] Speaker 2: the feeder system, but still.
[22:39] Speaker 2: That was the way they commentated it. A shark in
[22:41] Speaker 2: the middle of the street in part of a flood.
[22:43] Speaker 2: Doubt that's happening in Karratha any time soon because, of course,
[22:46] Speaker 2: we're heading our way into a pretty dry summer. But
[22:49] Speaker 2: before all of that happens, we're coming with our town
[22:51] Speaker 2: to Karratha, Western Australia. Thanks to our people at Harvey Norman.
[22:55] Speaker 2: Thank you to everyone who turned up in Bathurst last night.
[22:56] Speaker 2: Jesus was fabulous. I'm always bowled over by how much
[22:59] Speaker 2: the show means to you, how much the channel means
[23:01] Speaker 2: to you, and it means the world, and it re-energises.
[23:04] Speaker 1: It really fills my cup. to have Mum and Wayne there,
[23:07] Speaker 1: to have the kids.
[23:08] Speaker 2: There, my missus and so many mates. It just meant
[23:10] Speaker 2: the world. Please, join us.
[23:12] Speaker 1: A month from now, Sunday, 25th.
[23:14] Speaker 2: Of October, ourtownatnews24. com. au. I need these numbers locked in as
[23:18] Speaker 2: soon as possible. It all has to do with the venue,
[23:21] Speaker 2: about where we're going and how we're going to arrange
[23:22] Speaker 2: the venue. So let's know how many people are going
[23:25] Speaker 2: to come. Karratha, Western Australia, Sunday the 25th of October, ourtownatnews24. com. au.
[23:31] Speaker 2: Jacinta Price is the Shadow Small Business Minister and she
[23:33] Speaker 2: joins us now.
[23:34] Speaker 1: From the great heart of the country, otherwise known as
[23:36] Speaker 1: Alice Springs. Senator, lovely to see you. How you been?
[23:39] Speaker 7: I've been all right, actually. Yeah, considering all things are
[23:44] Speaker 7: going pretty crazy in our country at the moment, but
[23:47] Speaker 7: Alice Springs' weather is nice and warm, so that is
[23:50] Speaker 7: a bonus.
[23:50] Speaker 1: Good stuff.
[23:51] Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about this interest rate rise because, again,
[23:54] Speaker 2: to repeat myself, This bloke made such a song and
[23:56] Speaker 2: dance when it went up once.
[23:58] Speaker 1: Once, right?
[23:59] Speaker 2: What happens 15, 16 times later? Quick, look everywhere else
[24:03] Speaker 2: and we feel your pain. Sorry, also, stop comparing us
[24:06] Speaker 2: to the rest of the world when we are worse
[24:08] Speaker 2: than the rest of the world and anyone with like
[24:10] Speaker 2: three brain cells remembers it and knows it.
[24:15] Speaker 7: Yeah, look, you know, the truth is, Paul, as we
[24:19] Speaker 7: all know, and I suppose as we suggested before the
[24:23] Speaker 7: previous election and the one before that, well, we said
[24:27] Speaker 7: life isn't going to be easy. Well, it certainly isn't
[24:29] Speaker 7: bloody easy under Albanese right now with the cost of
[24:32] Speaker 7: living crisis rising. that is continuing on like a terrible
[24:37] Speaker 7: nightmare that just won't end. We've got the largest decline
[24:42] Speaker 7: in living standards in the developed world, which is really
[24:46] Speaker 7: quite embarrassing when we compare ourselves to other countries. And now,
[24:51] Speaker 7: of course, the prospect of yet another rate rise that
[24:54] Speaker 7: we know the four banks are telling us we can
[24:57] Speaker 7: expect that to occur tomorrow, and that will be the
[25:00] Speaker 7: 17th rise in under this Prime Minister, he and his
[25:06] Speaker 7: Treasurer have nothing to be proud about, you know, and
[25:11] Speaker 7: the highest cash rate in 15 years. That is what
[25:15] Speaker 7: we're expecting. And small businesses, as I know very well now,
[25:19] Speaker 7: having visited many around the country and speaking to them
[25:22] Speaker 7: on a regular basis, they're paying the price for Labor's
[25:26] Speaker 7: economic mismanagement.
[25:27] Speaker 1: I mean, they're already... in.
[25:30] Speaker 7: Terms of high fuel costs, power, freight, insurance, compliance costs,
[25:37] Speaker 7: and now, of course, they're facing another increase in the
[25:41] Speaker 7: cost of finance. And this government expects the RBA to
[25:47] Speaker 7: do their homework, expects them to try to manage inflation
[25:51] Speaker 7: on their behalf and are trying to outsource those responsibilities.
[25:57] Speaker 7: And yet we've got Jim Chalmers who just wants to
[26:00] Speaker 7: spend spend, spend. I mean, that's how we get increased
[26:04] Speaker 7: inflation when you spend taxpayers' dollars like it's going out
[26:08] Speaker 7: of fashion. And they just don't know how to take
[26:12] Speaker 7: responsibility for a budget and a declining economic outlook for
[26:18] Speaker 7: our country, which is really bloody horrible right now and
[26:23] Speaker 7: looking forward into the future.
[26:24] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[26:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just find it amazing how they think
[26:27] Speaker 2: they get this get-out-of-jail-free card, which is to pretend that
[26:30] Speaker 2: everything is either Donald Trump's fault or everything is to
[26:32] Speaker 2: do with the Iran war, when the three-interest rate rises
[26:37] Speaker 2: this year, two of them happened before the war, the
[26:39] Speaker 2: Reserve Bank governor said it was because of inflation. Do
[26:43] Speaker 2: they honestly think that no-one's paying attention, or is that
[26:45] Speaker 2: actually their bet, is that people aren't paying attention?
[26:48] Speaker 1: Because.
[26:50] Speaker 2: I know everyone in my life is paying attention and
[26:52] Speaker 2: that's including the people who don't watch the show as
[26:54] Speaker 2: frequently as they should because I'm their friend.
[26:57] Speaker 7: Well, that's right. You know, the small business owners around
[27:00] Speaker 7: the country are certainly paying attention because we've got... We're
[27:04] Speaker 7: seeing an increase in insolvencies. We've got one in three
[27:08] Speaker 7: businesses in the last 12 months have considered shutting the doors.
[27:13] Speaker 7: You know, the decisions that this government is making is
[27:16] Speaker 7: making it harder for small businesses... The uncertainty is meaning
[27:20] Speaker 7: when they don't have money in their pockets, they can't
[27:23] Speaker 7: invest that back into the business. They can't invest in
[27:26] Speaker 7: new equipment. They can't employ another person. They can't bring
[27:30] Speaker 7: on another apprentice. The final budget outcome shows us, and
[27:36] Speaker 7: Aussies aren't stupid, that taxes are up, spending is up,
[27:40] Speaker 7: debt is up, and the interest bill continues to bloody
[27:44] Speaker 7: well climb. And the only thing that isn't up is
[27:48] Speaker 7: the amount of money left over for everyday Australians at.
[27:51] Speaker 1: The end of it all.
[27:53] Speaker 7: You know, and Jim Chalmers tells us, right, he's bragging
[27:58] Speaker 7: that the underlying deficit being $ 6 billion less than their
[28:03] Speaker 7: $ 28. 3 billion forecast is something to be proud about. I mean,
[28:09] Speaker 7: it's still a $ 22 billion deficit that we're dealing with.
[28:14] Speaker 7: And let's not forget that the $ 6 billion deficit.. that
[28:18] Speaker 7: is cut from the deficit has come from aged care.
[28:22] Speaker 7: It's come from the PBS. It's come from childcare. It's
[28:26] Speaker 7: come from his new capital gains tax. And those are
[28:29] Speaker 7: his words. He is actually proud of that. I mean,
[28:34] Speaker 7: you know, we're going down the gurgler as a country.
[28:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. I mean, look, this is the thing.
[28:40] Speaker 2: If we owe the world a trillion dollars and we're
[28:42] Speaker 2: supposed to give him a pat on the back because...
[28:43] Speaker 2: The deficit this year that gets added on top of
[28:46] Speaker 2: all of that is $ 6 billion better. Of course, trillion
[28:50] Speaker 2: is $ 1, 000 billion.
[28:51] Speaker 1: $ 6 billion of the $ 1, 000? Come on.
[28:55] Speaker 2: And again, they're the ones that get to come up
[28:57] Speaker 2: with the estimates. So they're able to, at these four
[29:00] Speaker 2: different points of the clock, they're able to tweak.
[29:03] Speaker 1: It a little higher or a little lower.
[29:05] Speaker 2: To sort of set expectations and then to over-deliver compared
[29:10] Speaker 2: to what those expectations are to say, hey, we're great.
[29:12] Speaker 1: It's pretty simple.
[29:13] Speaker 2: Trillion dollars debt, budget deficits for the next 40 years,
[29:17] Speaker 2: interest rates 15 times up on their watch. What's got better?
[29:22] Speaker 2: Only the number of public servants and the pay for ministers. Senator,
[29:27] Speaker 2: so good to talk to you, mate. I look forward
[29:28] Speaker 2: to talking to you again very soon. Kiss the ground
[29:30] Speaker 2: for us in the Alice, mate.
[29:31] Speaker 1: All the best.
[29:32] Speaker 2: No worries. Senator Jacinta Dampage, one of the best in
[29:35] Speaker 2: the parliament, so good to have her here on Paul
[29:37] Speaker 2: Murray Live this Monday night.
[29:38] Speaker 1: Quick break, back with more. Lots to discuss.
[29:40] Speaker 2: Lots to debate, including yet another interest rate rise which
[29:43] Speaker 2: is on its way. But also the changes that are
[29:47] Speaker 2: coming when it comes to migration, particularly focusing in on those.
[29:51] Speaker 1: That work in rural areas.
[29:53] Speaker 2: I think there's something to this that not many have noticed.
[29:56] Speaker 2: I will notice and mention it in a moment from now.
[29:59] Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. Thanks for watching.
[30:05] Speaker 2: Thank you so much for watching. Let us get into
[30:06] Speaker 2: the conversation right now. Brother from another mother, another of
[30:08] Speaker 2: the wonderful Darren Barnett in the man cave.
[30:10] Speaker 1: How are you, sir?
[30:11] Speaker 4: Good.
[30:11] Speaker 2: Senator Matt Canavan, he's joining us now, of course, from
[30:14] Speaker 2: the beautiful city of Brisbane.
[30:16] Speaker 1: Are you in Brisbane tonight?
[30:19] Speaker 10: I sure am, Paul. Wish I was home, but no,
[30:21] Speaker 10: I'm on the road again.
[30:22] Speaker 1: Excellent.
[30:22] Speaker 2: I'm just checking quickly by the background there, and I
[30:24] Speaker 2: was looking at North Quay going, OK, yeah, I think
[30:26] Speaker 2: it is.
[30:26] Speaker 1: All right, good, done.
[30:27] Speaker 2: So Larissa Waters is the leader of the Greens, and
[30:31] Speaker 2: she is going to step down as the leader due
[30:32] Speaker 2: to some health concerns that she's had, a condition that
[30:36] Speaker 2: she's had for a little while that she has said
[30:37] Speaker 2: on social.
[30:38] Speaker 1: Media this evening is getting worse again.
[30:41] Speaker 2: Look, she's not our flavour when it comes to politics,
[30:44] Speaker 2: but obviously, human to human, you wish no-one worse.
[30:46] Speaker 1: Ill health.
[30:47] Speaker 2: No one ill will and we wish her nothing but
[30:48] Speaker 2: the best with what she has to physically deal with
[30:51] Speaker 2: and hope that her family, of course, are able to
[30:53] Speaker 2: help her through that as fast as possible. Matt, obviously,
[30:57] Speaker 2: you wouldn't agree much with a Green, but what has
[30:59] Speaker 2: Larissa Waters been like to deal with? She, of course,
[31:02] Speaker 2: is somebody who she plays the game hard, but is
[31:05] Speaker 2: going to be stepping back.
[31:06] Speaker 1: As leader due to these health concerns.
[31:08] Speaker 2: So anything you want to say about a change in
[31:10] Speaker 2: leadership for the Greens?
[31:14] Speaker 10: Look, I always got along. I've always got along with Larissa.
[31:17] Speaker 10: She's a fellow Queenslander, so we can at least agree
[31:20] Speaker 10: on some things. And as you say, you know, look,
[31:22] Speaker 10: I just hope her health is better. It's a bit
[31:25] Speaker 10: of a bolt from the blue. I wasn't aware she
[31:28] Speaker 10: had this condition, but people get on with life in
[31:31] Speaker 10: this job and it's a tough job being leader, I know.
[31:35] Speaker 10: And so I totally understand her decision here to take
[31:39] Speaker 10: a backwards seat from the leadership and concentrate on health.
[31:42] Speaker 10: So all the best with that. Look, it's a volatile
[31:46] Speaker 10: time in politics for lots of political parties, including my own,
[31:51] Speaker 10: but I do think in recent years the Greens have
[31:54] Speaker 10: struggled a little to remain relevant. I think even from
[32:00] Speaker 10: their outward campaigning, you don't hear even the Greens talk
[32:03] Speaker 10: about climate change and net zero much anymore. In fact,
[32:06] Speaker 10: there was an article last week in the Australian Financial
[32:08] Speaker 10: Review showing there's been a massive drop-off in the number
[32:12] Speaker 10: of mentions in the Parliament. on those issues. You'll typically
[32:16] Speaker 10: see the Greens now campaign on things like rent control
[32:18] Speaker 10: or somehow grocery prices. They want to set grocery prices.
[32:22] Speaker 10: I don't know how that's going to work. But that
[32:25] Speaker 10: just shows how everything's about cost of living right now.
[32:29] Speaker 10: But I think a sensible way to get down the
[32:30] Speaker 10: cost of living is to control government spending, show some
[32:34] Speaker 10: discipline and make some tough decisions. Without that, we're not
[32:37] Speaker 10: going to get anything in order soon.
[32:41] Speaker 2: Darren, of course, you took over after Adam Bandt lost
[32:43] Speaker 2: his seat in Melbourne, so she hasn't gone the full
[32:45] Speaker 2: parliamentary cycle. That said, at a time when the Labor
[32:48] Speaker 2: Party's lost a little bit of vote, when supposedly major
[32:51] Speaker 2: parties are.
[32:53] Speaker 1: Off the boil.
[32:54] Speaker 2: The Greens haven't really surged under her leadership. Again, on
[32:57] Speaker 2: a personal level, we're sure nothing but the best, but
[33:00] Speaker 2: the Greens are going to need, and it'll be fascinating
[33:03] Speaker 2: to see what their new leader does about how they
[33:05] Speaker 2: present themselves because their number's pretty static at a time
[33:08] Speaker 2: when the One Nation number has gone up.
[33:11] Speaker 8: That's true, but I think the Greens vote eats into
[33:13] Speaker 8: Labor rather than competes with One Nation.
[33:16] Speaker 1: Of course.
[33:17] Speaker 8: So they're sort of sitting on a solid 12-ish. They'll
[33:20] Speaker 8: probably stay there. Look, Larissa Waters, to the very best
[33:24] Speaker 8: of my knowledge, was good to deal with. And I
[33:27] Speaker 8: think the government has been quite happy with her leadership
[33:30] Speaker 8: in the Greens, whether it's the EPBC changes, some of
[33:33] Speaker 8: the land-clearing stuff. They've probably got more done than they
[33:37] Speaker 8: might have anticipated, certainly more than they would have got
[33:39] Speaker 8: done if Maureen Faruqi had been successful for the leadership.
[33:42] Speaker 8: So Labor, I think, would be disappointed. Obviously, health-related, everyone wishes... Yeah,
[33:49] Speaker 8: Senator Waters, all the best, but things might become a
[33:51] Speaker 8: little bit difficult for Labor. At the moment, they can
[33:54] Speaker 8: go one way or the other to get things through
[33:56] Speaker 8: the parliament, and one of those two avenues might become
[33:59] Speaker 8: a little tougher.
[34:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, Faruqi, I think he's one of the deputy leaders.
[34:01] Speaker 1: There's a couple of deputy leaders.
[34:02] Speaker 8: I think he stood for leader against Larissa Waters last time.
[34:05] Speaker 2: But also important to note for everyone, right, as much
[34:07] Speaker 2: as the Greens bang on and on about democracy and
[34:10] Speaker 2: want to point at everyone else's political process, there's... the
[34:14] Speaker 2: most secret inside the Parliament, right, is that you don't
[34:16] Speaker 2: know about how the room votes. Again, previous leadership deals,
[34:21] Speaker 2: we've woken up and there's just been a transition and
[34:23] Speaker 2: that's the way that it is.
[34:24] Speaker 1: Anyway, all the best to you.
[34:26] Speaker 8: We've never seen the coalition deal between the No. Everyone's
[34:29] Speaker 8: got their secrets.
[34:30] Speaker 1: No, no, never, never.
[34:32] Speaker 2: And I don't think One Nation needs to have party
[34:34] Speaker 2: meetings to work out who their leader is in perpetuity,
[34:37] Speaker 2: and I think for life, according to the Constitution.
[34:39] Speaker 1: All right.
[34:39] Speaker 2: So, Matt, let's talk about the backpacker visa stuff. Now,
[34:42] Speaker 2: I think the Labor Party, in not changing anything in
[34:45] Speaker 2: the overall, have turned around and gone, OK, what's an
[34:48] Speaker 2: area that's not going to affect the seats that traditionally
[34:51] Speaker 2: are voting for us or might go somewhere else, but
[34:54] Speaker 2: Definitely it's not really going to be eating into their pie.
[34:58] Speaker 1: Oh, surprise, backpacker visas, right?
[35:00] Speaker 2: So it ends up that the agricultural and tourism sectors
[35:03] Speaker 2: that largely are outside of those major cities that don't
[35:06] Speaker 2: vote Labor, that's where the cut's going to happen. How
[35:09] Speaker 2: politically surgical do you think this is? And it's an
[35:12] Speaker 2: attempt to wedge people who say, we've got to do
[35:14] Speaker 2: something about migration, just not that migration.
[35:19] Speaker 1: I think you're 100% spot on, Paul.
[35:23] Speaker 10: The Labor Party are ruthless and they are ruthlessly putting
[35:28] Speaker 10: a stake through the heart of many businesses in regional areas. Now,
[35:32] Speaker 10: even this political ploy, though, is not paying off for Labor.
[35:36] Speaker 10: Their migration policy is in complete disarray. Just a week
[35:40] Speaker 10: after Tony Burke appeared at the press club, the government
[35:44] Speaker 10: had to announce that... Well, actually, I don't know if
[35:46] Speaker 10: they have announced it, But we know that the government
[35:50] Speaker 10: has put in place a parallel process where the National
[35:54] Speaker 10: Farmers Federation can highlight to the government which farms need
[35:58] Speaker 10: which visas when. Because the government is now in complete
[36:03] Speaker 10: panic that food may go rotten on the vines. if
[36:09] Speaker 10: visas are not approved within weeks. My colleagues Anne Webster
[36:14] Speaker 10: and Sam Birrell from Northern Victoria have been banging the
[36:16] Speaker 10: drum about this for a month or so, and finally
[36:20] Speaker 10: the government has put in this parallel process. But it's
[36:23] Speaker 10: a ridiculous idea. Why does the NFF have to do
[36:25] Speaker 10: this now? Shouldn't the government be under control of who
[36:30] Speaker 10: gets visas where and make sure our food gets picked?
[36:34] Speaker 10: The same thing's happening for tourism businesses and they're being
[36:36] Speaker 10: left completely high and dry. And this was not a
[36:40] Speaker 10: problem before the government decided to come along that they
[36:43] Speaker 10: were here and could help. The backpacker visa system had
[36:47] Speaker 10: been working well in our country. It is not the
[36:49] Speaker 10: reason for the surge in numbers. But as you say,
[36:52] Speaker 10: politics here, the government just can't seem to tackle the
[36:55] Speaker 10: student visa scam. That is a major issue with our
[36:58] Speaker 10: migration programs.
[36:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know how these things work here, Darren.
[37:01] Speaker 2: Do you think that someone somewhere in Tony Burke's office
[37:03] Speaker 2: turns around and says, you know what, you know how
[37:05] Speaker 2: the One Nation, the Nats, the Libs, everyone but us
[37:08] Speaker 2: says we've got to cut immigration? Well, what's the form
[37:10] Speaker 2: of it that's really going to get at those people
[37:13] Speaker 2: to try to create some sort of reverse wedge here?
[37:16] Speaker 1: Because of all of the.
[37:17] Speaker 2: Things to cut, the stuff that automatically results in farms,
[37:23] Speaker 2: pretty obvious that you're trying to wedge country politicians on this,
[37:27] Speaker 2: aren't you?
[37:27] Speaker 1: Well, look.
[37:28] Speaker 8: I think the result's the same, whether it's a wedge
[37:30] Speaker 8: or whether it's a path of least resistance. And they
[37:33] Speaker 8: would look at it and say, well, we haven't got
[37:34] Speaker 8: anything to lose politically. Therefore, whether it's a concerted effort,
[37:39] Speaker 8: who knows? But the result's exactly the same. So I'll
[37:42] Speaker 8: take Matt's advice, given he's from the National Party, that
[37:46] Speaker 8: it's a very important part of regional economies and that
[37:49] Speaker 8: needs to be addressed.
[37:50] Speaker 2: Let's talk about social media powers and here we go again, right?
[37:53] Speaker 1: Now, this absurdity.
[37:55] Speaker 2: of the eSafety Karen that is going to be running
[37:58] Speaker 2: around using sock puppets, right, as part of the whole
[38:02] Speaker 2: pushback on misinformation.
[38:05] Speaker 1: It's beyond ludicrous.
[38:06] Speaker 2: But, again, at the heart of these things remains, and
[38:08] Speaker 2: it has been incredible to watch over the past couple
[38:10] Speaker 2: of weeks, just the gaslighting. And gaslighting is a polite
[38:14] Speaker 2: term for bullshitting, okay? It's just I don't like to
[38:16] Speaker 2: use the BS as much as I used to in
[38:18] Speaker 2: the past. But a few people have asked me, that's.
[38:20] Speaker 1: What it means, all right?
[38:22] Speaker 2: And this scenario of, well, hang on, why should the
[38:26] Speaker 2: minister have the individual power to decide what they consider
[38:28] Speaker 2: to be harmful above everything else that's been listed as harmful?
[38:32] Speaker 2: The duty of care, it's just a completely different answer, right?
[38:36] Speaker 2: And for some reason, they never follow up with the
[38:37] Speaker 2: second question. But what about the sock puppets, Senator?
[38:43] Speaker 10: Well, I'll just read to you, Paul. I don't have
[38:46] Speaker 10: it in front of me, but I've got it in memory.
[38:48] Speaker 10: Section 205J says, of the Digital Duty of Care Bill says,
[38:52] Speaker 10: Commissioner may use sock puppets.
[38:54] Speaker 1: I mean, that's the title.
[38:57] Speaker 10: That's the title of the section. And I'm just wondering,
[39:00] Speaker 10: is there another section where she can use burner accounts?
[39:03] Speaker 10: Is there another section where she can go on late-night tirades,
[39:07] Speaker 10: you know, so-and-so posting all over online?
[39:10] Speaker 1: It's so stupid.
[39:11] Speaker 10: I mean, what the hell is going on here? Why
[39:13] Speaker 10: do you need a whole section of a law to
[39:17] Speaker 10: allow for a government agency, one person in fact, to
[39:23] Speaker 10: have sock puppets? Look, I think this raises a broader question.
[39:26] Speaker 10: We can laugh about this, Paul. We can laugh about it.
[39:28] Speaker 1: No, but it matters. Come on, let's go.
[39:30] Speaker 10: Bit missing in this whole debate, it does matter, and
[39:32] Speaker 10: one thing that's gone a little bit missing in this
[39:33] Speaker 10: whole debate is do you know last year there was
[39:35] Speaker 10: an independent review of the eSafety Commissioner, a government commissioned review,
[39:40] Speaker 10: and that review found that eSafety Commissioners should be abolished
[39:44] Speaker 10: and replaced with a panel. Now, that's sort of gone
[39:47] Speaker 10: a little bit under the radar, but to my mind,
[39:50] Speaker 10: this whole issue raises why is this one person getting
[39:53] Speaker 10: so much power and authority? Keep in mind, not only
[39:57] Speaker 10: can the Commissioner, this one person, use these sock puppets,
[40:01] Speaker 10: they are then, in the next section of the Act,
[40:03] Speaker 10: given immunity. for any action against her use of the
[40:08] Speaker 10: sock puppets online. And I think we're getting to the
[40:13] Speaker 10: heart of why that independent review found that maybe just
[40:15] Speaker 10: putting all this power in one person is a bad idea,
[40:17] Speaker 10: an unelected person, and perhaps we should go back to
[40:21] Speaker 10: that recommendation, back to that report, and think about this
[40:24] Speaker 10: whole thing being abolished and we start again.
[40:25] Speaker 8: My understanding is it's not just the eSafety Commissioner that
[40:30] Speaker 8: approved academics can also create... sock puppet accounts. Sadly, they
[40:35] Speaker 8: don't actually have to have a sock puppet.
[40:36] Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.
[40:37] Speaker 8: But they can come up. The idea is so that
[40:39] Speaker 8: you could test, you know, whether the system is working,
[40:43] Speaker 8: but there probably should be a more verifiable way with
[40:48] Speaker 8: tighter rules and maybe spy agencies run it rather than
[40:52] Speaker 8: the safety commissioner.
[40:53] Speaker 2: I think, again, sort of the literal definition of what
[40:56] Speaker 2: essentially the burner or fake accounts that are there. All right,
[40:59] Speaker 2: I'm going to put you guys into overtime in a
[41:00] Speaker 2: moment or two's time. Lots more to discuss with the
[41:02] Speaker 2: panel in a moment here on Paul Murray Live. Of course,
[41:05] Speaker 2: as always, we finish up with a little bit of
[41:07] Speaker 2: what they were doing while you were working. More in
[41:10] Speaker 2: a sec here on Paul Murray Live. Thank you very
[41:16] Speaker 2: much for watching.
[41:17] Speaker 1: We're going live to London in a moment or two's time.
[41:19] Speaker 2: Sorry, the tin cans weren't spun together properly. So we
[41:22] Speaker 2: will get to that in a second. In the meantime,
[41:23] Speaker 2: we're in Brisbane. We're in the man cave right now.
[41:25] Speaker 2: Darren Barnett and Matt Canavan. A couple of quick ones
[41:28] Speaker 2: before we finish here. There is a fascinating obsession, of course,
[41:33] Speaker 2: that the Guardian has with One Nation, and they love
[41:35] Speaker 2: to get inside the ins and outs of the way
[41:38] Speaker 2: that it works. But they seem to have got some
[41:42] Speaker 2: sort of text exchange with somebody who's high ranking in
[41:44] Speaker 2: the leadership of One Nation, mouthing off apparently at the
[41:48] Speaker 2: time about David Farley. Now, Matt, I often get accused
[41:53] Speaker 2: of not discussing these things, so I'm going to directly here.
[41:56] Speaker 1: What do you think of this story?
[41:57] Speaker 2: And again, part of the message that they are sending
[42:00] Speaker 2: back to the political figures is.
[42:01] Speaker 1: Hey, someone in your team is leaking.
[42:05] Speaker 2: But that level of inside detail normally starts to rattle
[42:10] Speaker 2: a few people.
[42:13] Speaker 10: Well, look, I'd be pretty concerned if I was in
[42:15] Speaker 10: One Nation and these sort of leaks were occurring because
[42:18] Speaker 10: obviously these messages were private ones meant to pretty senior
[42:23] Speaker 10: people within One Nation. That'll cause fingers to be pointed.
[42:27] Speaker 10: I mean, I was there on the ground, obviously, often.
[42:30] Speaker 10: So the messages don't surprise me because there was an
[42:34] Speaker 10: enormous amount of consternation about Mr Farley's and that campaign,
[42:40] Speaker 10: it just seemed everything was a drama and everything is
[42:42] Speaker 10: a drama with One Nation. I sort of coined it
[42:44] Speaker 10: in terms of drama nation. And, look, I know and understand,
[42:47] Speaker 10: you know, the attraction to different things right now, particularly
[42:51] Speaker 10: given what our country is going through. But we will
[42:55] Speaker 10: need a government to run things eventually. And if you
[42:58] Speaker 10: can't run your own organisation and you're having these sort
[43:00] Speaker 10: of dramas, that's calling the question, how are you going
[43:03] Speaker 10: to go if you get the keys.
[43:04] Speaker 1: To the lodge?
[43:04] Speaker 2: Speaking of the Turnbull Times, they wrote a whole piece
[43:08] Speaker 2: about how much the President swears. Too much swearing, apparently,
[43:12] Speaker 2: from Donald Trump. Now, I can swear like a sailor
[43:15] Speaker 2: with the best of them. I do my best to
[43:17] Speaker 2: pull it back on telly and I think I've done
[43:18] Speaker 2: OK the past couple of years.
[43:19] Speaker 1: I couldn't care less. But do you think the position
[43:21] Speaker 1: of President should.
[43:22] Speaker 2: Be above these things or it's just a reality of
[43:26] Speaker 2: how a person actually is?
[43:29] Speaker 8: What I think is funny is that at first it
[43:31] Speaker 8: was just slipping out the odd verbal, but now it's written...
[43:35] Speaker 8: when he puts it into his little truth social posts.
[43:38] Speaker 1: You really mean it when you write it down?
[43:40] Speaker 8: I think it's probably a little bit unbecoming, to be honest,
[43:42] Speaker 8: for a majority of voters. Personally, it doesn't bother me,
[43:45] Speaker 8: but if I was advising the PM or someone else,
[43:49] Speaker 8: I'd keep that blue language to a minimum.
[43:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, all right.
[43:52] Speaker 2: Well, save it for the documentary. Lads, I do appreciate it.
[43:55] Speaker 2: Thank you very much. We've got it all working now,
[43:56] Speaker 2: so we'll go off to the UK in a moment
[43:58] Speaker 2: or two's time here on Paul Murray Live. Thank you
[43:59] Speaker 2: so much for watching, wherever you happen to be. You
[44:01] Speaker 2: can always send me an email, paul at news24.
[44:03] Speaker 4: Com. au.
[44:08] Speaker 2: Let's check in with our mate Leila Cullingham, who would
[44:10] Speaker 2: like to be the next Lord Mayor of London. Hopefully
[44:12] Speaker 2: she'll do it via the Reform Party ticket, and she
[44:14] Speaker 2: joins us now from the capital of the UK right now.
[44:17] Speaker 1: Lovely to see you, Leila. How have you been? How
[44:19] Speaker 1: have you been? I've been great.
[44:20] Speaker 9: How are you down under?
[44:22] Speaker 1: We're doing our best. All the better for seeing you.
[44:24] Speaker 2: So we just saw a flash there on our screen
[44:26] Speaker 2: about this terror plot that a farmer started to notice
[44:30] Speaker 2: things as we were getting closer to that RAF Fairford base. This,
[44:34] Speaker 2: of course, was the base that the US was using
[44:35] Speaker 2: in part to try to launch things against Iran. Yet again,
[44:39] Speaker 2: a reminder about the threat that lives within your beautiful country, Leila.
[44:44] Speaker 9: Well, I mean, we've heard, actually, they've said today that
[44:46] Speaker 9: they were British nationals, which sadly in this day and
[44:49] Speaker 9: age doesn't mean much. But, you know, we've had a
[44:52] Speaker 9: longstanding agreement that was done by our government and our
[44:56] Speaker 9: secret services to kind of allow Islamists into the country
[44:59] Speaker 9: and operate from our country.
[45:01] Speaker 1: It was called a covenant of security.
[45:03] Speaker 9: And it was arranged in the early 90s where people
[45:05] Speaker 9: they could almost seek refugee and asylum as long as
[45:08] Speaker 9: they promised not to commit offences on our shores. Imagine that.
[45:13] Speaker 9: I don't know if you remember, we had a terrorist
[45:14] Speaker 9: called Abu Hamza who had a hook, quite scary looking.
[45:18] Speaker 9: And he testified to that in court. And it was
[45:21] Speaker 9: kind of, you know, we'll let you be here. Just
[45:23] Speaker 9: don't do anything on our turf. And now the chickens
[45:27] Speaker 9: are coming to roost from that kind of policy.
[45:29] Speaker 1: You don't trust terrorists.
[45:30] Speaker 9: You don't trust Islamic terrorists who want to destroy the West.
[45:34] Speaker 1: But we have allowed.
[45:35] Speaker 9: Islamism and the Muslim Brotherhood, who's not a prescribed organization here.
[45:39] Speaker 1: I'm not saying it is, by the way, this. Of course.
[45:42] Speaker 9: But you will see other types because we've allowed people
[45:45] Speaker 9: who not only don't tolerate Britain, but want to destroy
[45:48] Speaker 9: Britain to live in our country and to live off
[45:50] Speaker 9: the country. I don't know who these guys are, and
[45:55] Speaker 9: I'm not guessing, but on another note, in terms of
[45:58] Speaker 9: the danger and the people we're allowing into the country,
[46:00] Speaker 9: that is one aspect of it.
[46:01] Speaker 1: No, completely, completely important.
[46:03] Speaker 2: That is, again, as you say, the overall background about
[46:06] Speaker 2: what is happening right now. The specifics we'll all learn
[46:08] Speaker 2: in the next little while. Sadiq Khan, the man who
[46:11] Speaker 2: you'd like to defeat as the Mayor of London, he
[46:14] Speaker 2: wants Andy Burnham to think about the UK going back
[46:16] Speaker 2: into the EU.
[46:18] Speaker 1: Would you love that fight?
[46:21] Speaker 9: So I think what Labour don't understand, so they keep
[46:23] Speaker 9: making the economic argument for the Brexit, but it was
[46:27] Speaker 9: a constitutional vote. It was a vote to get back control.
[46:31] Speaker 9: It was a vote to control who came into our country.
[46:33] Speaker 9: It was a vote for me to be able to
[46:37] Speaker 9: elect the person who makes laws that control my life.
[46:40] Speaker 9: And that only done through Parliament. Because as you know,
[46:42] Speaker 9: the EU Commission is unelected and kind of like operates
[46:48] Speaker 9: by decree. And that didn't sit well with me. And
[46:51] Speaker 9: it was, you know, we were given huge freedoms as
[46:54] Speaker 9: a country back, you know, regulatory freedom, freedom to control
[46:57] Speaker 9: who comes to our border, freedom to trade with whoever
[47:00] Speaker 9: we wanted and freedom to write our own laws. Sadly,
[47:02] Speaker 9: we've had successive governments that haven't utilised those freedoms.
[47:05] Speaker 1: They've almost been lazy.
[47:08] Speaker 9: And so people do feel discontent, actually, with the way
[47:11] Speaker 9: Brexit turned out. And I think Andy Burnham is going
[47:15] Speaker 9: to put it in his next manifesto. kind of to
[47:18] Speaker 9: make it as a referendum on Brexit. That's my hunch,
[47:21] Speaker 9: because they're slowly trickle-feeding, blaming everything on Brexit, which doesn't
[47:25] Speaker 9: make sense.
[47:25] Speaker 1: That's what they're doing.
[47:27] Speaker 2: Also, under the guise of big and bold leadership, there's
[47:29] Speaker 2: the Labour conference happening right now. You see it was
[47:31] Speaker 2: floating on the BBC. over the weekend, essentially sort of
[47:35] Speaker 2: a second version of the NHS. This one specifically focused
[47:40] Speaker 2: in and around aged care. His father died, I think,
[47:42] Speaker 2: in the past couple of weeks. But, yeah, big spending
[47:46] Speaker 2: is not the way to save a government and an
[47:49] Speaker 2: economy that's sinking, is it?
[47:52] Speaker 9: No, but, you know, he's basically going to have to
[47:54] Speaker 9: call an election to raise taxes because they don't want
[47:58] Speaker 9: to cut the welfare bill.
[48:00] Speaker 6: And.
[48:01] Speaker 9: I think if you get enough people dependent on welfare,
[48:03] Speaker 9: perhaps they think it guarantees them a perpetual electoral win.
[48:06] Speaker 1: Correct.
[48:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, I talk about this all the time as the
[48:09] Speaker 2: triangle of dependence, right? They want you to work for
[48:12] Speaker 2: the government, be dependent on the government, or if you're business,
[48:14] Speaker 2: the biggest client is the government.
[48:16] Speaker 1: Leila, lovely to see you. Follow her on the socials.
[48:18] Speaker 1: She's a dynamo. We love her. She's the next Lord
[48:21] Speaker 1: Mayor of London. Good on her. Thank you, Leila. She's
[48:23] Speaker 1: the best.
[48:24] Speaker 2: All right, that's our show for tonight. Thank you very
[48:25] Speaker 2: much for watching. Again, thanks to everyone who joined us
[48:28] Speaker 2: in Bathurst. It was a great time. It was a
[48:30] Speaker 2: fun time. I don't think I'll ever forget falling in
[48:32] Speaker 2: the pool again, but that's what we do for the
[48:34] Speaker 2: sponsors that we love, and we love Harvey Norman and
[48:36] Speaker 2: the support of Our Town and particularly Paul Murray Live
[48:39] Speaker 2: here on News 24.
[48:40] Speaker 1: We'll see you again tomorrow. Here is The Late Debate.

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