# Paul Murray Live | 19 May

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 19 May 2026, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/9ff22663-79b8-42e4-93ed-b44f00d37363/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Labor's primary vote plummets amid backlash to Anthony Albanese's budget broken promises, the budget is ridiculed on social media. Plus, the treasurer says 'death tax' claims are a scare campaign. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live.
[0:06] Speaker 2: Hello mate, thank you very much, Sherry, welcome to the
[0:08] Speaker 2: man kV. Standing up and that only means one thing.
[0:10] Speaker 2: A Sky News Pulse moments from now. But the big
[0:13] Speaker 2: news tonight is the man they are all talking about.
[0:18] Speaker 3: For Leader Night of faries, Nigel Nigel Farage, Nija Farras
[0:22] Speaker 3: and Nigel Farast.
[0:23] Speaker 1: Nigel Farag, Nigel Farrage.
[0:26] Speaker 2: Every pole says he will be the next Prime Minister
[0:29] Speaker 2: of the United Kingdom after a general election. Why because
[0:32] Speaker 2: of their endless success in by elections, local elections. Nigel
[0:36] Speaker 2: Farage back on Paul Murray Live. The only place you'll
[0:40] Speaker 2: see him on Aussie Telly is here each and every
[0:43] Speaker 2: Tuesday night. As I say, it's a big reason to
[0:46] Speaker 2: be standing up tonight because I have in my hot
[0:48] Speaker 2: little hand the latest edition of the Sky News Pulse,
[0:51] Speaker 2: our opinion poll.
[0:53] Speaker 1: Thanks to our mates at you Gov.
[1:01] Speaker 2: This is our fortnightly look at not just politics, but
[1:04] Speaker 2: the issues that drive it and the people who are
[1:06] Speaker 2: at the center of it. Unsurprisingly, our poll finds what
[1:10] Speaker 2: many others have, which is that the budget went down
[1:13] Speaker 2: like a lead balloon. The headline on the Sky News
[1:17] Speaker 2: website right now is Labour's primary vote plummets amid a
[1:20] Speaker 2: backlash to Anthony Aberneze's budget broken promises. But simply when
[1:24] Speaker 2: it comes to the budget itself, let's have a look at.
[1:27] Speaker 1: What people think.
[1:28] Speaker 2: I can tell you we're in a scenario now where
[1:30] Speaker 2: forty four percent of people say that their family is
[1:34] Speaker 2: worse off as a result of this budget in terms
[1:38] Speaker 2: of the changes that have been made when it comes
[1:40] Speaker 2: to negative gearing and the CTG changes as well. Well,
[1:44] Speaker 2: you can see here this column on the far left
[1:47] Speaker 2: of your screen says thirty eight percent of people say
[1:49] Speaker 2: that it is less affordable. Forty eight percent of Gen
[1:52] Speaker 2: Z believe that believe things are getting better for them,
[1:56] Speaker 2: as is Millennials, but only by two points. Boomer and
[2:00] Speaker 2: the Greatest generation, they believe that this gets worse in
[2:05] Speaker 2: terms of housing affordability and what people think they're about
[2:08] Speaker 2: the changes when it comes to this budget. Again, inside
[2:12] Speaker 2: the Sky News Pulse, you can see here that in
[2:16] Speaker 2: terms of the party best to handle this, twenty eight percent.
[2:20] Speaker 2: The one at the bottom is the biggest number, and
[2:23] Speaker 2: that is don't know. They don't know. That central question
[2:26] Speaker 2: about who has the better idea when it comes to
[2:31] Speaker 2: making sure that your kids or maybe you are able
[2:34] Speaker 2: to buy the house that you want to live in.
[2:37] Speaker 2: In terms of the identity of forty percent on the right,
[2:41] Speaker 2: there only twenty two percent backing in the government who
[2:45] Speaker 2: supposedly rigged the entire budget for that purpose, which brings
[2:49] Speaker 2: us to the primary vote amongst all of the major parties,
[2:53] Speaker 2: the Independence and other as well. Here worth noting here,
[2:57] Speaker 2: let's get to it now, which is my notes here.
[3:00] Speaker 1: But there we go, all right. So right now, the
[3:03] Speaker 1: One Nation.
[3:04] Speaker 2: Party is up, the Coalition is up, the Labor Party
[3:07] Speaker 2: is down twenty eight delfh x two twenty five. One
[3:11] Speaker 2: Nation still relatively in front of the coalition, but the
[3:13] Speaker 2: Coalition has been able to fight back since budget in
[3:17] Speaker 2: reply and after that Pharah by election. So the bounce
[3:21] Speaker 2: for One Nation, if it is anything out of Parah,
[3:23] Speaker 2: that's one point. The bounce out of the budget in
[3:26] Speaker 2: terms of the coalition is up, Labor is down all right.
[3:31] Speaker 2: Also worth noting here too in terms of the support
[3:35] Speaker 2: for One Nation. Interestingly, there was a show this evening
[3:38] Speaker 2: on SBS called the Insight Program, and they were trying
[3:41] Speaker 2: to study supporters of One Nation. They found one who
[3:45] Speaker 2: doesn't fit the stereotype.
[3:48] Speaker 4: Nil, your family came to Australia about forty years ago
[3:51] Speaker 4: from Fiji.
[3:52] Speaker 5: What do you think about one nation?
[3:54] Speaker 6: I reckon, she's fantastic, to be honest with you, someone
[3:56] Speaker 6: who loves her own country so much. That's not racist.
[4:00] Speaker 6: You have to have pride in a country. And we
[4:01] Speaker 6: came from Fiji as well, and we come to this
[4:04] Speaker 6: best country that we call home.
[4:05] Speaker 7: Now.
[4:05] Speaker 6: I call myself Australian. I called myself Fijian or Indian.
[4:08] Speaker 6: I've put an Australian flag pole in my front yard.
[4:11] Speaker 6: And you come to this country, embrace the Australian may
[4:14] Speaker 6: obliving or you know what, we stay where you are.
[4:18] Speaker 2: Imagine the sound of heads exploding at Labor HQ when
[4:21] Speaker 2: you are talking about a person of the suburbs, a
[4:24] Speaker 2: person who is often marketed against well, that is a
[4:27] Speaker 2: person who is supporting one nation, putting them above the coalition,
[4:31] Speaker 2: but the coalition becoming slightly more competitive in the past
[4:34] Speaker 2: couple of weeks. Let's have a look at things age
[4:36] Speaker 2: by age. Obviously all of this was a lot to
[4:39] Speaker 2: do with age in the budget. So I continue with
[4:42] Speaker 2: the youngest voters. The Labor Party is up to thirty
[4:45] Speaker 2: two percent. The Greens down but the second most popular
[4:48] Speaker 2: party at twenty nine Coalition and one Nation not in
[4:51] Speaker 2: the game. It is the Independence that are running third.
[4:55] Speaker 2: The millennial group supposedly the largest single demographic of voters here, well,
[5:01] Speaker 2: again you can see the Labor Party leading at twenty eight,
[5:04] Speaker 2: the Coalition outperforming One Nation. Here with this horde of
[5:08] Speaker 2: voters people generally in their thirties, you can see One
[5:12] Speaker 2: Nation has actually dropped by five points here. That has
[5:15] Speaker 2: gone to the Labor Party, to the Greens and to
[5:18] Speaker 2: the Independence. My generation, the people in their forties or
[5:21] Speaker 2: early fifties, Generation X, This has been a huge driving
[5:25] Speaker 2: force for One Nation. It remains an increase following Parah
[5:30] Speaker 2: following the budget. The budget four points off the Labor Party.
[5:35] Speaker 2: This matters because of the size of this voting block
[5:38] Speaker 2: of middle Australia people. Of course, with young families, people
[5:42] Speaker 2: trying to get in front and starting to begin to
[5:45] Speaker 2: think about not retirement just yet, but those things that
[5:48] Speaker 2: are about the war on retirement, well they are very
[5:51] Speaker 2: much aware for people in Gen X, for baby boomers. Well,
[5:55] Speaker 2: the pole there shows that this is a huge area
[5:58] Speaker 2: of support for the Center right of Australian politics, sixty
[6:03] Speaker 2: percent divided between the Liberal Party and the Coalition. It'll
[6:07] Speaker 2: be a good sign for the Coalition that they are
[6:10] Speaker 2: essentially fifty to fifty here. Labor again down with this
[6:14] Speaker 2: group by five percent. The greatest generation, those who lived
[6:19] Speaker 2: through and the consequences of World War II. Have a
[6:23] Speaker 2: look at these numbers, because you are now dealing at
[6:26] Speaker 2: seventy two percent of owning to the center right of
[6:29] Speaker 2: Australian politics.
[6:31] Speaker 1: For some reason Labour went slightly up here.
[6:33] Speaker 2: A little bit of statistical noise, this huge flip though,
[6:37] Speaker 2: nineteen points in two weeks off the Coalition straight over
[6:42] Speaker 2: to one nation. Now again you are dealing with fractions
[6:45] Speaker 2: of fractions inside the pole. But this pole is a comprehensive,
[6:49] Speaker 2: multiple thousand sample right across the entire country.
[6:53] Speaker 1: So whether that is.
[6:54] Speaker 2: Us picking up what was already there in things like Farah,
[6:57] Speaker 2: or there's been some major change in the past couple
[7:00] Speaker 2: of weeks, well, we will all find about it, of course,
[7:03] Speaker 2: the closer we get to the election. As for issues,
[7:07] Speaker 2: if immigration is the issue that of course sets your
[7:11] Speaker 2: heart on fire, and you believe it to be a
[7:13] Speaker 2: fundamental issue, we need to deal with in the country.
[7:16] Speaker 2: Guess what The majority of Australians, certainly the biggest sample
[7:21] Speaker 2: of even eighteen to thirty four's sixty two percent of
[7:24] Speaker 2: people believe that we should decrease immigration by a little
[7:29] Speaker 2: or a lot in Australia. Just to again go through
[7:32] Speaker 2: these numbers here, youngest voters forty eight to sixteen say
[7:36] Speaker 2: decrease thirty five to forty nine, fifty eight percent say
[7:41] Speaker 2: decrease sixty nine over the age of fifty seventy seven
[7:45] Speaker 2: percent of people over the age of sixty five. Unsurprisingly,
[7:52] Speaker 2: the poll works out who is the best party for
[7:54] Speaker 2: people who want major changes when it comes to immigration.
[7:57] Speaker 2: It won't surprise you that one nation has its surge
[8:00] Speaker 2: at seven percent up thirty six percent of the vote
[8:04] Speaker 2: equal Labor and the Coalition at eighteen A significant number
[8:08] Speaker 2: people who labor would assume they're going to be able
[8:10] Speaker 2: to somehow argue back well twenty one percent currently sitting
[8:13] Speaker 2: in the don't know category. In terms of managing the economy,
[8:17] Speaker 2: this is the bright spot for the Liberal Party and
[8:19] Speaker 2: why the argument in and around a lot of these
[8:22] Speaker 2: tax changes and tax lies becomes their greatest area of
[8:26] Speaker 2: strength to be arguing from thirty one percent backing in
[8:29] Speaker 2: the coalition when it comes to managing the Australian economy
[8:32] Speaker 2: versus a quarter of voters for labor sixteen for one
[8:36] Speaker 2: nation and as you can see, a quarter of voters
[8:38] Speaker 2: sitting outside of all of the above options. Now, all
[8:43] Speaker 2: of this is fascinating to read, fascinating to see, fascinating
[8:47] Speaker 2: to unpack, but all of it shows that, yes, in
[8:50] Speaker 2: terms of the budget itself, there has been a little
[8:53] Speaker 2: bit of an uplift in some areas for younger voters
[8:56] Speaker 2: that is not going to offset the changes in the
[8:59] Speaker 2: middle of the country or older voters. And obviously there's
[9:02] Speaker 2: that fundamental question of trust. But if you ask Jim Chalmers,
[9:06] Speaker 2: everything is awesome.
[9:09] Speaker 4: So the budget is really about inflation and productivity, it's
[9:13] Speaker 4: about housing and tax and it's also about intergenerational aspiration
[9:17] Speaker 4: and opportunity as well.
[9:19] Speaker 8: We want to make sure that we do everything possible,
[9:21] Speaker 8: which is why in the budget last week we had
[9:24] Speaker 8: additional money.
[9:34] Speaker 1: Every two weeks.
[9:34] Speaker 2: The Sky News policy comes out on a Tuesday night,
[9:36] Speaker 2: full and even deeper detail on the website right now
[9:39] Speaker 2: sky news dot com dot Au.
[9:41] Speaker 1: More analysis tomorrow morning.
[9:42] Speaker 2: We Pete Stefanovick all the way through the day with
[9:45] Speaker 2: my friends and in primetime from Chris Kenny at five
[9:48] Speaker 2: pm Easton. Now, despite the fact that the Prime Minister
[9:52] Speaker 2: and the Treasurer just one week ago we're high fiving
[9:56] Speaker 2: themselves at the greatest budget of all time, one that
[9:59] Speaker 2: was going to essentially draw a line under fifty over
[10:02] Speaker 2: fifty and anyone over fifty who cares. But there is
[10:05] Speaker 2: still a sizeable number of people who are there to
[10:08] Speaker 2: be lost by the Labor Party. That opinion poll shows
[10:11] Speaker 2: that some of that is starting to move.
[10:14] Speaker 1: Well.
[10:14] Speaker 2: Their bet is, of course, that all of this is
[10:16] Speaker 2: nothing to do with anything but intergenerational fairness. Remember literally
[10:21] Speaker 2: one week ago tonight. A week is a long time
[10:23] Speaker 2: in politics. This one has felt like a particularly long week.
[10:26] Speaker 2: It was this time last week that they brought the
[10:29] Speaker 2: cameras in to congratulate themselves on a budget that they
[10:33] Speaker 2: knew was on its way, that they knew was full
[10:36] Speaker 2: of lies. But Australia would learn that later in the evening.
[10:42] Speaker 4: Well, yeah, well this is our most responsible budget yet,
[10:47] Speaker 4: of course, and our most ambitious ambitious slots here that
[10:51] Speaker 4: will make a meaningful difference.
[10:53] Speaker 1: So many full different too, you know, the government a
[10:57] Speaker 1: lot of hard work, a lot of hard work.
[10:59] Speaker 2: It's hard work, eyeing to the Australian people, working hard,
[11:03] Speaker 2: long nights, burning the candle. Are both thends trying to
[11:06] Speaker 2: work out how to lie and then bretend there was
[11:08] Speaker 2: no life?
[11:09] Speaker 1: Sorry, un interrupted Prime.
[11:10] Speaker 8: Ministers, Why we were elected to make it?
[11:13] Speaker 2: Why you were elected meaning to put in place the
[11:16] Speaker 2: promises you promised to do or to not do the
[11:19] Speaker 2: ones you promised not to do, or to do the
[11:21] Speaker 2: ones you promised not to do.
[11:22] Speaker 1: I can never remember sixty four savings.
[11:26] Speaker 2: When you save money, it's savings, when anyone else suggested,
[11:29] Speaker 2: it's cut cut medicare.
[11:33] Speaker 1: This is the same person I remember couldn't work out
[11:35] Speaker 1: where thirty billion dollars around the world.
[11:39] Speaker 2: Oh trunks to blame for everything uncertain times, Trump lies
[11:43] Speaker 2: so weak and love we can to strengthen the economy,
[11:47] Speaker 2: wrap it up, jacks their life better.
[11:49] Speaker 9: And that's what this foture little good?
[11:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, Well we all knew because we weren't
[11:54] Speaker 2: in the room. We weren't drinking the kool aid, we
[11:56] Speaker 2: weren't talking to the treasurer, we weren't getting this, we
[12:00] Speaker 2: weren't part of the group think that you know, the
[12:03] Speaker 2: second we saw the details, we knew what the problems were,
[12:07] Speaker 2: and they still remain just as loud and bigger lie
[12:11] Speaker 2: as they were seven days ago. Now, the bed, of course,
[12:15] Speaker 2: is that there's fifty two weeks in a year, and
[12:17] Speaker 2: it might be uncomfortable for a couple of days, nobody's
[12:19] Speaker 2: really going to remember by the time all of this
[12:20] Speaker 2: actually kicks in, and if there's any real changes, they'll
[12:23] Speaker 2: start to tinker with things. Then there was the reality
[12:26] Speaker 2: of people working out that there is a death tax
[12:29] Speaker 2: that is inside the budget. Why because if you work
[12:33] Speaker 2: out a way to deal with the inheritance of what
[12:35] Speaker 2: you have been able to build in your life, the
[12:38] Speaker 2: government is now going to find a brand new way
[12:40] Speaker 2: to tax it. And if that money doesn't go to
[12:43] Speaker 2: your kids until you die, and the tax only kicks
[12:46] Speaker 2: in after you die, that would be a.
[12:48] Speaker 1: Death tax, right, Don't trust me.
[12:50] Speaker 2: Here's the bloke from the West Australian I often enjoy watching,
[12:54] Speaker 2: who's quite sharp on these things.
[12:56] Speaker 7: The controversy isn't about fairness. It's about the fact anthonyez
[13:00] Speaker 7: he was lying his ass off when he said he
[13:03] Speaker 7: wasn't going to make changes to the tax system.
[13:05] Speaker 6: And also because it's viewed as a death tax, which
[13:07] Speaker 6: it kind.
[13:08] Speaker 7: Of is, because the proposed laws will hit so called
[13:11] Speaker 7: testamentary trusts, which are set up through a person's will
[13:15] Speaker 7: and are activated when that person dies.
[13:18] Speaker 2: Thank you, Ben, better explained than I could do quickly. Now,
[13:21] Speaker 2: of course, this is no death tax, has nothing to
[13:23] Speaker 2: see here and only kicks in when someone dies. And again,
[13:26] Speaker 2: don't take that from me, take that from the person
[13:29] Speaker 2: desperately trying to remember the spin and our mate and
[13:32] Speaker 2: the hat who can smell bs in the middle of
[13:36] Speaker 2: the fields of Tamworth.
[13:38] Speaker 10: If you have a testamentary trust set up, will it
[13:41] Speaker 10: be taxed more after July next year? Well, like I said,
[13:47] Speaker 10: there's more than one type of testamentary trust that there's
[13:50] Speaker 10: the discretionary ones and the fixed ones. But can I
[13:53] Speaker 10: say if it's a discretionary one, we tax more next July.
[13:57] Speaker 1: Yes, it's.
[14:00] Speaker 10: On the discretionary ones. But now next to you will
[14:03] Speaker 10: this is the reason we're doing this reason we're doing No,
[14:09] Speaker 10: it's not because you can still have a fixed testametary
[14:12] Speaker 10: trust if you want to.
[14:14] Speaker 2: Oh, even the air support being sent from the PMO
[14:17] Speaker 2: wasn't enough to save her from the talking point that
[14:20] Speaker 2: is just at a garbage and good on the media,
[14:24] Speaker 2: who generally speaking sort of move on to the next
[14:26] Speaker 2: thing very quickly, for actually holding their feet to the fire,
[14:30] Speaker 2: forcing these people to acknowledge the lie, holding them account
[14:34] Speaker 2: for the lie, and then getting them to explain the
[14:37] Speaker 2: actual consequences of their actions. But again, if the only
[14:42] Speaker 2: time the tax kicks in is after you've died, which
[14:45] Speaker 2: is when people start to get the inheritance, hence why
[14:49] Speaker 2: the coalition says death tax over and over again.
[14:54] Speaker 11: Death tax, death tax, death tax, death taxes, death tax.
[14:59] Speaker 1: But a relaxed everyone, we've all got it wrong.
[15:02] Speaker 2: Despite the fact that the only time the tax would
[15:05] Speaker 2: kick in is after you die, and therefore the trust
[15:11] Speaker 2: moves towards the family, the principal in and of itself,
[15:14] Speaker 2: of course, is a death tax. But I'll make Grimjim, well,
[15:18] Speaker 2: he's a little grim because he thought that the spin
[15:20] Speaker 2: of spin charmers would be able to get in there,
[15:22] Speaker 2: as I made Bromin Bish would say, there's snake charming here.
[15:26] Speaker 1: Well, he's just saying, well, all.
[15:27] Speaker 2: Of this is just an unfair campaign of misinformation and lies.
[15:34] Speaker 4: It's best not to listen to the scare campaigns from
[15:37] Speaker 4: people who have a partisan or a commercial interest in this.
[15:41] Speaker 4: We're making sensible, common sense changes.
[15:44] Speaker 1: Now.
[15:45] Speaker 2: You should only believe us, the people who promised not
[15:49] Speaker 2: to do this before the election, but do it anyway,
[15:52] Speaker 2: the people who overtly promised not to make the changes
[15:57] Speaker 2: fifty one hundred. However, many times all of this dead
[16:01] Speaker 2: berry cremated along with the political corpse.
[16:03] Speaker 1: Of Bill Shorten.
[16:04] Speaker 2: All of it gone for twenty twenty two, all of
[16:08] Speaker 2: it hidden in twenty twenty five. But when the lid
[16:11] Speaker 2: came off in twenty twenty six, guess what the corpse
[16:15] Speaker 2: that was put in the ground in twenty nineteen. Stinst
[16:19] Speaker 2: eye heaven when it has been reanimated by this mob now,
[16:23] Speaker 2: and don't get me started about scare campaigns. One of
[16:27] Speaker 2: the ways the Labour Party was able to get its
[16:29] Speaker 2: way to ninety four seats. Firstly, after lying about your
[16:33] Speaker 2: electrical bills, lying about bringing down the cost of living,
[16:38] Speaker 2: was this central lie that somehow Peter Dutton and the
[16:43] Speaker 2: Liberals last year, well, they invented a costing of what
[16:48] Speaker 2: the nuclear program would have cost, done by a far
[16:51] Speaker 2: left wing anti nuclear think tank. So they invent the
[16:55] Speaker 2: bogeyman and then try to scare you about the consequences
[17:00] Speaker 2: of a plan that didn't exist. Do you want to
[17:02] Speaker 2: talk about scare campaigns, doctor, Well, here's some of your
[17:06] Speaker 2: own medicine that you were handing out last year.
[17:09] Speaker 1: When you are lying your way back to office power.
[17:13] Speaker 2: In a time of global volatility, We've never needed stability more.
[17:17] Speaker 1: But that's not what Peter Dutton is offering. His nuclear
[17:19] Speaker 1: plan will.
[17:20] Speaker 12: Drive up the cost of everything.
[17:22] Speaker 2: His cuts to Medicare will make our health system more
[17:24] Speaker 2: like America.
[17:25] Speaker 1: His job cuts will destroy public service. He cuts few pay.
[17:31] Speaker 2: Remember that over and over and over again. Must have
[17:34] Speaker 2: been effective? Why easy to remember? Spooky music? Black and
[17:37] Speaker 2: white liberal leader, These are the same ads they've been
[17:40] Speaker 2: running since two thousand and four, and work choices. Sometimes
[17:43] Speaker 2: they win, sometimes they don't. When they're in power, these
[17:47] Speaker 2: are the tactics. Yet they want to turn around and
[17:49] Speaker 2: tell us, well, we deserve a gold star when it
[17:51] Speaker 2: comes to budget management. Sure we're introducing your death tax.
[17:54] Speaker 2: Sure we're creating a scenario where we the politicians are
[17:58] Speaker 2: able to hold on to our wealth that we have
[18:00] Speaker 2: created through negative gearing. But your kids, no, no, no,
[18:04] Speaker 2: that must be cut off because the triangle of dependence
[18:07] Speaker 2: is the only way to exist when the Labor Party
[18:10] Speaker 2: is in power, where the only thing you do is
[18:13] Speaker 2: work forty fifty hours a week, where a million people
[18:17] Speaker 2: have more than one job. We have less than one
[18:20] Speaker 2: thousand dollars in the bank, where you'll never be able
[18:23] Speaker 2: to save the deposit to buy the house, regardless of
[18:26] Speaker 2: who you are bidding against, because then you are dependent
[18:30] Speaker 2: on the state. You demand the handout, you hang out
[18:34] Speaker 2: for the money that comes from government. Or maybe you
[18:38] Speaker 2: work for the government. And if you work for the government,
[18:41] Speaker 2: well then you wouldn't want to displace a government, let
[18:44] Speaker 2: alone elect one that may well cut back the excesses
[18:47] Speaker 2: of government. And if you work in business, well, of course,
[18:50] Speaker 2: the whole point of business is just to pay more
[18:53] Speaker 2: tax and more tax, because everyone with an ABN is
[18:55] Speaker 2: a billionaire. Didn't you know that if you've got a
[18:59] Speaker 2: small business, didn't you know that you are the secret
[19:02] Speaker 2: mustache twirling, monocle wearing cigar chomping billionaires. Remember when the
[19:12] Speaker 2: opposition of the last election wanted to give you the
[19:15] Speaker 2: same ability to go to lunch with your clients, Anika
[19:21] Speaker 2: Wells lied and said that people were going to use
[19:24] Speaker 2: the money to go to the Super Bowl. Now, yes,
[19:28] Speaker 2: more people work for a business than own a business.
[19:31] Speaker 2: But if the people who don't own a business have
[19:33] Speaker 2: a business, the one hundred and fifty b four billion
[19:37] Speaker 2: dollars that comes to the federal government through company tax,
[19:40] Speaker 2: it disappears. The majority of people with an ABN are
[19:44] Speaker 2: sole traders. They are outside of the triangle of dependence.
[19:48] Speaker 2: So they are a threat to the system, the system
[19:51] Speaker 2: that means you must be dependent on the government, and
[19:54] Speaker 2: thus the party of bigger government and the side piece
[19:58] Speaker 2: of the Greens.
[20:00] Speaker 1: That's the whole game. It's not a secret.
[20:03] Speaker 2: That is why their bet is that if they can
[20:06] Speaker 2: create the dependence from early childhood all the way through
[20:13] Speaker 2: to your dying day, then you will never vote for
[20:16] Speaker 2: anything other than the people that will protect that system,
[20:20] Speaker 2: the system that makes you dependent on them. Well, for
[20:25] Speaker 2: millions of us, we don't live in that system. For
[20:27] Speaker 2: millions of us, we believe that if you are able
[20:31] Speaker 2: to find the time, to find the effort, to risk
[20:35] Speaker 2: the capital, to put in the shoulder work, to take
[20:39] Speaker 2: the risk, that from little things, something big enough will grow.
[20:47] Speaker 2: Oh no, no, sure, but they've got to cut it,
[20:50] Speaker 2: they've got to take it, even though, of course, before
[20:53] Speaker 2: the last election, while they have the balls to talk
[20:55] Speaker 2: today about scare campaigns, they lie about the very changes
[21:03] Speaker 2: that they have wanted to put in for seven years,
[21:08] Speaker 2: but lied not once but at two elections, and even
[21:12] Speaker 2: after the corpse was dead in twenty nineteen they said
[21:16] Speaker 2: it had never come back. Now, regardless of whether you
[21:20] Speaker 2: like or dislike the politics of John Howard, and let's
[21:23] Speaker 2: be very honest that Howard haters are in charge now.
[21:26] Speaker 2: They're the ones that are rewriting the history. They're the
[21:30] Speaker 2: ones that are undoing the system that led to the prosperity.
[21:35] Speaker 2: They are trying to undermine the concept of an Australian value,
[21:40] Speaker 2: or pride in a flag or having a national Day.
[21:45] Speaker 2: Remember they lied, not once, not twice, but more than that.
[21:53] Speaker 4: Now when it comes to negative gearing, we've made it
[21:57] Speaker 4: very clear that that's not something that we are proposing.
[22:01] Speaker 4: We have made it very clear through the course of
[22:04] Speaker 4: this week that we have a broad and ambitious housing
[22:08] Speaker 4: policy already and those changes aren't part of it.
[22:11] Speaker 10: Do you all out meeting the Greens demands on negative gearing?
[22:15] Speaker 9: I rule out negotiating with the greens.
[22:18] Speaker 1: That's even further now.
[22:21] Speaker 2: Of course, the Prime Minister, generally speaking, has most of
[22:23] Speaker 2: the media in his pocket. He prefers the softer touch,
[22:27] Speaker 2: like this from twenty twenty two, before he became the
[22:30] Speaker 2: Prime minister.
[22:34] Speaker 5: Setting a cracking pace.
[22:35] Speaker 3: These days, it's been a carefully crafted makeover. The dramatic
[22:40] Speaker 3: weight loss, new specs, new suits, it's all very well
[22:45] Speaker 3: prime ministerial. You'd almost need glasses to recognize the elbow
[22:50] Speaker 3: two point zero. You look like John kurt Don, a
[22:54] Speaker 3: wartime prime minister.
[22:56] Speaker 8: Well fashion, if you just hold on for long enough,
[22:58] Speaker 8: it comes back.
[23:01] Speaker 1: Or this rigorous grilling in two thousand and two, do.
[23:05] Speaker 5: You ever feel like pushing him in the water some time?
[23:08] Speaker 10: I felt like Dan, it was just getting dangerously close
[23:11] Speaker 10: to the edge.
[23:12] Speaker 3: Johm a mc wedding, how much he charge.
[23:18] Speaker 5: Mats rates And of.
[23:19] Speaker 2: Course he can't stand the media that says when he
[23:22] Speaker 2: fell off a stage, he actually fell off a stage.
[23:28] Speaker 1: In the middle. And he particularly thinks that he owns
[23:40] Speaker 1: social media.
[23:41] Speaker 2: Remember, he invites them to cover the budget so they
[23:44] Speaker 2: can ask questions like, so, treasurer, what's your.
[23:46] Speaker 1: Favorite part of this particular budget. I'll just write it
[23:48] Speaker 1: down okay, cool send.
[23:50] Speaker 2: But as you know, in the past couple of days,
[23:53] Speaker 2: anyone with a connection to a small business, well they're
[23:55] Speaker 2: firing back.
[23:56] Speaker 1: You've seen most of these videos. All the hosts have
[23:58] Speaker 1: been showing them tonight.
[23:59] Speaker 2: And rightly so, because if you happen to take that
[24:02] Speaker 2: small ab in and grow it into a business that
[24:05] Speaker 2: may or may not employ someone, they end up getting
[24:08] Speaker 2: forty seven percent of it when you sell it. And
[24:12] Speaker 2: people are fighting back now. The Prime Minister is the joke,
[24:16] Speaker 2: is the lie. But today was pretending that he's kind
[24:18] Speaker 2: of all above it and he's still kind of that
[24:20] Speaker 2: super cool dude who's walken at magic light by the
[24:24] Speaker 2: water or trying on the John Curtain glasses.
[24:30] Speaker 8: I think some of them are very flattering and I
[24:32] Speaker 8: thank them for picking very nice photos of me, and
[24:37] Speaker 8: I thank them for that.
[24:40] Speaker 2: Brett Freedenburg is with the Small Business Association of Australia.
[24:44] Speaker 2: He is part of not the Mean campaign, but he's
[24:46] Speaker 2: a bit of an expert in tax and no doubt
[24:48] Speaker 2: has been dealing with much of the blowback that's coming.
[24:52] Speaker 2: He is not part of the editorial I have just delivered.
[24:54] Speaker 2: He is a guest here to talk about the issues
[24:55] Speaker 2: that are there. See, I saved you with the issues
[24:57] Speaker 2: their bread, all right, So help me out what are
[25:00] Speaker 2: the things people seem to be most concerned about, and
[25:02] Speaker 2: particularly explain to anyone who hasn't quite got their head
[25:05] Speaker 2: across it what the forty seven percent silent partner bit
[25:09] Speaker 2: actually means.
[25:10] Speaker 11: Well in terms of small businesses, what's really unnerving is
[25:15] Speaker 11: actually all the uncertainties that's been created by the announced
[25:18] Speaker 11: and proposed changes, and a lot of those changes are
[25:21] Speaker 11: quite fundamental, and what small businesses really need is certainty.
[25:26] Speaker 11: And particularly one of the changes that is really of
[25:29] Speaker 11: a concern is the changes to discretioning trusts and the
[25:33] Speaker 11: tax that's going to apply to them, because around about
[25:36] Speaker 11: three hundred thousand small businesses use discretioning trusts as their
[25:40] Speaker 11: business vehicle, and so the proposed changes have a fundamental
[25:44] Speaker 11: impact of their livelihood and their cash flow and their
[25:48] Speaker 11: planning going into the future.
[25:50] Speaker 2: Now the government will turn around and say, well, we
[25:52] Speaker 2: had plenty for small business what was already the instant
[25:55] Speaker 2: asset right off, which has basically been there now since
[25:58] Speaker 2: the pandemic, a little higher, a little lower. It remains permanent,
[26:01] Speaker 2: but essentially it doesn't change anything from last year. But
[26:04] Speaker 2: as always I like to say, they take with one
[26:07] Speaker 2: hand and they give back with two fingers. And that
[26:10] Speaker 2: in part is not going to be year on year.
[26:13] Speaker 2: But again from something little, something big enough grows and
[26:16] Speaker 2: that's going to be the problem, isn't it.
[26:18] Speaker 11: Yeah, And a fundamental thing that the budget had was
[26:22] Speaker 11: about achieving fairness. And achieving fairness in the tax system
[26:26] Speaker 11: is really critical. When you actually look at some of
[26:30] Speaker 11: the POSE reforms, they're actually quite punitive, particularly for small businesses.
[26:34] Speaker 11: And yes, the asset right off is something that's been
[26:37] Speaker 11: called for in the sector in terms of making it permanent,
[26:40] Speaker 11: because that making it permanent makes it more certain, so
[26:43] Speaker 11: businesses can plan when they're buying assets and what's the
[26:46] Speaker 11: tax effect of those in terms of the minimum tax
[26:50] Speaker 11: of thirty percent that's going to apply to discretion of trusts.
[26:53] Speaker 11: In one hand, that looks fair because that's what a
[26:56] Speaker 11: company will pay on its business income. Yes, when the
[27:00] Speaker 11: trust distributes income to their beneficiaries, the beneficiaries will get
[27:04] Speaker 11: a credit for that, which is very similar to franking
[27:07] Speaker 11: credits and shares like in terms of when a shareholder
[27:10] Speaker 11: gets paid to frank dividend. The difference though is with
[27:13] Speaker 11: the discretion Trust, the dividend amount or the franking amount
[27:17] Speaker 11: is not refundable, so whether franking credits for the share,
[27:20] Speaker 11: you can get the refunded excess credits.
[27:23] Speaker 5: Also, the sting in the tail.
[27:24] Speaker 11: In terms of the discretion trust is if the trustee
[27:27] Speaker 11: distributes to a corporate beneficiary, there's going to be no
[27:30] Speaker 11: credit and so there's going to be double taxation. Potentially
[27:33] Speaker 11: when a trust distributes to a corporate beneficiary. That is
[27:37] Speaker 11: fundamentally different to how when a company pays a dividend
[27:41] Speaker 11: to another company.
[27:42] Speaker 5: And so when they come the government talks about fairness.
[27:45] Speaker 11: If you dig a little bit deep, there's actually quite
[27:47] Speaker 11: a bit of inconsistency and that's not fair and so
[27:51] Speaker 11: the government really needs to back up their retric so
[27:54] Speaker 11: the tax laws are consistent between all the different business
[27:57] Speaker 11: structures that we have in Australia.
[28:00] Speaker 2: Talk about family members of mine who have slightly but
[28:03] Speaker 2: surely built up cleaning business or builting, you know, maintaining
[28:09] Speaker 2: pools or pool heaters, or people that have had lawn
[28:13] Speaker 2: mowing businesses. And again essentially you might buy a run
[28:17] Speaker 2: off somebody else. Let's just make up a number here
[28:19] Speaker 2: and say you've done that for fifty thousand dollars, right,
[28:22] Speaker 2: But over time because of the increases in your work,
[28:25] Speaker 2: the more people you've taken on. When you go at
[28:28] Speaker 2: the end of it and you go to sell that
[28:29] Speaker 2: run and it's fifty thousand dollars, what you're selling, is
[28:33] Speaker 2: that going to be affected by these things? Because that's
[28:36] Speaker 2: what a lot of small business people are coming to
[28:38] Speaker 2: me and asking about this is your area of expertise,
[28:41] Speaker 2: particularly things like tax Is there a fundamental change in
[28:46] Speaker 2: this for dare I say the mom and dad business
[28:50] Speaker 2: who basically, you know, pay everyone else before they pay themselves.
[28:54] Speaker 2: But the whole idea is that at one point when
[28:56] Speaker 2: it's time to pull a pin, there will be some
[28:59] Speaker 2: money left over, and hopefully it's more than you put
[29:02] Speaker 2: in to buy the damn thing.
[29:04] Speaker 11: Yeah, And that's one of the problem or the issues
[29:07] Speaker 11: that small businesses have is that they don't have a
[29:09] Speaker 11: diversification of risk. Their whole life and livelihood is invested
[29:13] Speaker 11: in that business and they keep on reinvesting in that
[29:16] Speaker 11: business to help make it grow.
[29:18] Speaker 5: One of the things if.
[29:19] Speaker 11: You've got a sole trader, the fifty percent discount that
[29:23] Speaker 11: being removed will potentially increase the capital gains tax payable
[29:28] Speaker 11: when they sell the business if there's goodwill or if
[29:31] Speaker 11: there's land and buildings with that. Although for small business
[29:35] Speaker 11: one of the things they are keeping is a small
[29:37] Speaker 11: business CGT concessions that has a separate further fifty cent reduction,
[29:42] Speaker 11: So small businesses, if they're running through a sole trader,
[29:45] Speaker 11: will be still eligible for that. And so there is
[29:48] Speaker 11: still some tax concessions that are still currently there for
[29:52] Speaker 11: small businesses, but they are missing a big one in
[29:54] Speaker 11: terms of that CGT discount.
[29:57] Speaker 5: The indexation. Yes, that will decrease.
[29:59] Speaker 11: The amount of the capital gain, but it won't be
[30:02] Speaker 11: as generous as a fifty cent discount. And again it's
[30:06] Speaker 11: really critical to think about what the government is trying
[30:10] Speaker 11: to achieve here. When John Howard and Peter Costello introduced
[30:14] Speaker 11: the fifty cent discount back in the year two thousand,
[30:17] Speaker 11: part of it was just to make the mass easy.
[30:20] Speaker 11: The inflation the CPI increases was found to be actually
[30:24] Speaker 11: too hard for many taxpayers and their advisors to keep
[30:26] Speaker 11: track of, and so they brought in just a hard
[30:29] Speaker 11: and ready fifty cent discount. Fundamentally, there is some flaws
[30:34] Speaker 11: in that system. Inflation you know it is way too
[30:36] Speaker 11: generous in terms of the tax revenue that is foregone
[30:39] Speaker 11: by the government. There's been many calls actually just to
[30:42] Speaker 11: reduce it down to twenty five percent. The government has
[30:46] Speaker 11: chosen lot to listen to those recommendations and actually to
[30:48] Speaker 11: go back to the old CPI increase. There there'll be
[30:52] Speaker 11: winners and losers because of that change. But the big
[30:56] Speaker 11: thing is that there's a lot of grandfathering as well,
[30:59] Speaker 11: and that's when basically you've got different rules applying to
[31:02] Speaker 11: when you bought the asset or not. All those different
[31:05] Speaker 11: rules make the tax system way harder. And I think
[31:09] Speaker 11: most people will agree that Australia's tax system was hard
[31:13] Speaker 11: before last Tuesday's budget. I think most people will agree
[31:16] Speaker 11: that after the Tuesday's budget, Australia's tax system is even
[31:20] Speaker 11: going to come harder and in some ways still very
[31:24] Speaker 11: unfair because there will be still a different treatment between
[31:27] Speaker 11: depending on what type of business structure you're.
[31:29] Speaker 5: Using for your business.
[31:31] Speaker 2: Well on behalf of my brother and everyone else with
[31:33] Speaker 2: an ABN in a small business, bloody oath.
[31:34] Speaker 1: It's what you just said.
[31:35] Speaker 2: It's why you should, if you can be members of
[31:38] Speaker 2: these associations, get the access to the information Small Business Association.
[31:42] Speaker 1: Of Australias where we found Brett. We really do appreciate it.
[31:44] Speaker 2: Thank you mate. We'll talk to you again down the track,
[31:47] Speaker 2: all right, Nigel Farag. He is back on Australian Telly
[31:50] Speaker 2: and the only place you're finding this here on pul
[31:52] Speaker 2: Murray Live. This bloke is absolutely killing it all over
[31:55] Speaker 2: the United Kingdom. If there was a general election they
[31:58] Speaker 2: sweep to power. We've got the inside seat, Nigel Farage.
[32:02] Speaker 2: Before we're done tonight on Paul Murray Line.
[32:09] Speaker 1: Let's get into it right now in the man cave.
[32:11] Speaker 2: None other wonderful Darren Bunnette equally wonderful, but in his
[32:13] Speaker 2: own man cave right now, is not other than James Ashby,
[32:16] Speaker 2: of course, with one nation.
[32:17] Speaker 1: Gentleman, Hello, nice to see you.
[32:19] Speaker 2: So I'll start with you first, James, as a person
[32:22] Speaker 2: who knows how to put together some viral content online.
[32:26] Speaker 1: It really is the.
[32:27] Speaker 2: Most powerful hit we've seen them on conservatives for a while,
[32:31] Speaker 2: businesses and small business people doing it on albow.
[32:34] Speaker 1: But Albo somehow thought he was a way to turn
[32:36] Speaker 1: in that he was in on the joke.
[32:38] Speaker 2: He was kind of not just the co author of
[32:42] Speaker 2: the taxation of when you sell a business. But he's
[32:44] Speaker 2: sort of part of the gags because all the pictures
[32:46] Speaker 2: were really cute.
[32:49] Speaker 1: Do these ones hurt him?
[32:50] Speaker 2: Probably a little more than anything a politician could say
[32:53] Speaker 2: about him.
[32:55] Speaker 13: I think it's fair to say they will, because this
[32:58] Speaker 13: isn't some agency that's come up with this. This is
[33:01] Speaker 13: why it's turned viral is it's because it's come from
[33:04] Speaker 13: real business people, and they're filthy. They're riled up, they're
[33:08] Speaker 13: filthy enough to go out there and start these campaigns.
[33:11] Speaker 13: They're not obnoxious. I might just say there's nothing cruel
[33:15] Speaker 13: about them. They're just pure and honest, and I think
[33:17] Speaker 13: that's what hurts the most. And some been very funny. Others, well, look,
[33:25] Speaker 13: I think the majority of them have been funny. But
[33:28] Speaker 13: that's what's perpetuated the response from other small business.
[33:32] Speaker 2: People now again from little things enough can grow. Both
[33:36] Speaker 2: of you, of course, have been in all different types
[33:38] Speaker 2: of campaigns, mega ones and small ones. Here to the
[33:40] Speaker 2: small business community. Okay, I'd have to say that they're
[33:43] Speaker 2: well and truly round one year. But Darren the free advice,
[33:47] Speaker 2: what's next? How do they maintain it? Next week, next month,
[33:51] Speaker 2: until theoretically there's pressure for this to be changed before
[33:54] Speaker 2: it kicks in.
[33:56] Speaker 12: Two things. I think Labour still its budget was designed
[34:00] Speaker 12: and to get people under thirty to continue to vote.
[34:03] Speaker 12: Progressive memes hit that audience. So Labor would have some
[34:08] Speaker 12: concerns that there's effectively a viral free anti labor campaign
[34:13] Speaker 12: out there, and so that would concern them, and anything
[34:16] Speaker 12: that happens between now and the passage of that budget
[34:20] Speaker 12: can those changes could be made. It wouldn't surprise me.
[34:24] Speaker 12: On the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald today
[34:26] Speaker 12: was potentially winding back the CGT discount changes to residential property.
[34:32] Speaker 12: I'm sure they'll have a look at that. That would
[34:34] Speaker 12: take the heat out of some of the small business
[34:38] Speaker 12: anger is out there. But I think it's interesting also
[34:42] Speaker 12: people have been trying to talk about the twenty fourteen budget.
[34:44] Speaker 12: This didn't pick as many fights. That budget picked a
[34:48] Speaker 12: fight with everyone. It picked a fight with co payments
[34:51] Speaker 12: on mediacare, picked to fight with universities with age care.
[34:55] Speaker 12: But it just picked a fight too many fights at once.
[34:58] Speaker 12: The number of fights is not as vast, but Labor
[35:02] Speaker 12: will be very mindful that they've just got to keep
[35:04] Speaker 12: this under control and not let that sort of outrage
[35:09] Speaker 12: spread into other sectors. So I wouldn't be surprised if
[35:12] Speaker 12: there's some tinkering before it passes the Parliament. But the
[35:16] Speaker 12: warning signs are there. They've got to keep a lid on.
[35:17] Speaker 2: It again, James, what's your advice to those small business
[35:20] Speaker 2: people and might have got a good hit in the
[35:21] Speaker 2: past couple of days with a meme, but how to
[35:23] Speaker 2: keep it going.
[35:26] Speaker 13: Well, look for this, we've got to focus on the
[35:29] Speaker 13: fact that it's a lie. And this doesn't just affect
[35:32] Speaker 13: young people in business. This affects every Australian. It's been
[35:35] Speaker 13: lie after lie. We were lied to about the electricity
[35:38] Speaker 13: prices that were supposed to come down, they didn't. We've
[35:42] Speaker 13: been lied to on so many fronts by this government
[35:44] Speaker 13: and people have had a gutfull. And that's what the
[35:47] Speaker 13: majority of Australians are saying out there to us that
[35:51] Speaker 13: they just don't trust either of the UNI parties. They've
[35:54] Speaker 13: been lied to on immigration, they've been lied to about
[35:57] Speaker 13: the ISIS brides coming back into the country to lie
[36:00] Speaker 13: after lie. It's not just one here, Darren, it's every
[36:03] Speaker 13: single time this bloke opens his mouth. Old Fibidiba, you
[36:07] Speaker 13: can't believe a word he says.
[36:09] Speaker 1: Correct.
[36:09] Speaker 2: All right, now let's get to what Of course, Angus
[36:12] Speaker 2: Taylor made a significant part of his budget in reply,
[36:16] Speaker 2: which I've got to say again shocked me because I
[36:18] Speaker 2: didn't realize we had a system where welfare was being
[36:22] Speaker 2: accessed by non citizens, a very significant number of them. Now,
[36:25] Speaker 2: of course, the big asterisk here is just like the
[36:27] Speaker 2: negative gearing stuff grandfather, I e.
[36:30] Speaker 1: Everyone currently under the arrangement. That doesn't change.
[36:33] Speaker 2: It hasn't stopped the Labor Party on their own scare
[36:35] Speaker 2: campaign because only they're allowed to run them.
[36:37] Speaker 1: Nobody else is.
[36:39] Speaker 2: What do you think about how this has played out
[36:42] Speaker 2: and how it potentially plays out, Darren, Look.
[36:44] Speaker 12: I thought that I know kas samaras couns on your
[36:47] Speaker 12: show a bit. I thought his analysis was pretty sound.
[36:49] Speaker 12: That regional areas out of suburbia, it may play quite well.
[36:55] Speaker 12: But once you get to that middle ring sort of
[36:58] Speaker 12: big Indian community, Chinese cammunity, Chinese Australians don't have that
[37:02] Speaker 12: option of dual citizenship, I think it hits a wall
[37:05] Speaker 12: fairly quickly, and Labor will try and defend that wall.
[37:09] Speaker 2: Unless, as Labor will about negative gearing, you stress the
[37:13] Speaker 2: grandfather nature.
[37:14] Speaker 12: Everything is winners and losers. The longer you're in government,
[37:18] Speaker 12: whoever you are, then you create winners and losers, and
[37:20] Speaker 12: people remember the losses more than the wins. And that's
[37:23] Speaker 12: why we don't have governments anymore. That even Howard esque
[37:27] Speaker 12: era of ten years, it's not going to happen.
[37:30] Speaker 1: So in ninety four seats, I don't know, we'll see.
[37:33] Speaker 12: You talk three terms, but it's not going to be
[37:35] Speaker 12: a four term government.
[37:36] Speaker 1: So fingers crossed from you from your lives to.
[37:40] Speaker 12: I guess there's a lot. I think people remember the
[37:42] Speaker 12: losses more than the wins, and that's every party in government.
[37:45] Speaker 2: All right, So James again on all of this, and
[37:47] Speaker 2: obviously we know where why the Liberal Party is pivoting
[37:50] Speaker 2: the way they are and what they're trying to put
[37:52] Speaker 2: back and all the rest of it here, But just
[37:54] Speaker 2: on this fundamental idea. Did you have conversations with people
[37:57] Speaker 2: over the weekend who were shocked that this year the
[38:00] Speaker 2: current system that people who are not citizens are still
[38:04] Speaker 2: able to basically get the advantages that citizens get in
[38:09] Speaker 2: terms of what you can get from the government and
[38:12] Speaker 2: that triangle of dependence.
[38:16] Speaker 13: Well, a lot of these people are permanent residency permanent residents.
[38:20] Speaker 13: So in other words, they're one step away from citizenship.
[38:24] Speaker 13: They've been given the green tich to say, I kind
[38:26] Speaker 13: of look at it like an engagement. You're engaged. What's
[38:29] Speaker 13: the next step marriage? But none of these people seem
[38:33] Speaker 13: to have wanted to become citizens. It's they're in this
[38:35] Speaker 13: limbo land. So they're allowed to stay here, but they're
[38:38] Speaker 13: not allowed to vote yet, and they shouldn't be until
[38:42] Speaker 13: they take that pledge of allegiance to this country. They
[38:45] Speaker 13: shouldn't be entitled to all of the things that Australians deserve,
[38:51] Speaker 13: the things they've worked hard for. So look, I get it.
[38:54] Speaker 13: I understand the appeal that angerstal is going for here,
[38:57] Speaker 13: but we're talking about over a million people team Australia.
[39:01] Speaker 13: Or you want to go back to the country in
[39:02] Speaker 13: which it came from. You can't have it both ways.
[39:05] Speaker 1: One hundred.
[39:06] Speaker 2: Now, let's talk about again one of the ways that
[39:10] Speaker 2: this government is particularly punitive against any threat to it,
[39:14] Speaker 2: which is to remove the amount of support staff that
[39:17] Speaker 2: anyone but the government has to be able to prosecute
[39:21] Speaker 2: and hold the government to account. Now, this is an
[39:24] Speaker 2: issue that affects anything non Labor in the Parliament. But
[39:29] Speaker 2: Pauline is particularly strong on this, and she's talking about
[39:32] Speaker 2: how hard it is to be a staffer trying to
[39:35] Speaker 2: come up with an entire sort of national response to
[39:37] Speaker 2: things with so few people and you're up against the
[39:41] Speaker 2: machine of government. Again, explain to people who generally speaking
[39:45] Speaker 2: aren't that aren't a bigger fan of more taxpayer funded staffers,
[39:50] Speaker 2: But give us an idea here about why people like
[39:53] Speaker 2: One Nation and the Crossbench need more people to help
[39:57] Speaker 2: them do their job.
[39:58] Speaker 13: James, I think largely because a lot of people have
[40:02] Speaker 13: seen the failings of their two parties Labor and Liberal,
[40:07] Speaker 13: and honestly, the amount of people that have just given
[40:11] Speaker 13: up hope who call our office, Paul Alane's office, Malcolm
[40:14] Speaker 13: Robertson's office, or any of our senator's office looking for
[40:16] Speaker 13: that support. It's really hard to provide it when you've
[40:20] Speaker 13: got you know, in cases where we took several thousand
[40:24] Speaker 13: phone calls in a week and there were several thousand
[40:26] Speaker 13: went unanswered. We can't cope with it. And when Albaneze
[40:29] Speaker 13: had came to government the first term, he halved our
[40:31] Speaker 13: personal staff, he halved at Paul and then when he
[40:34] Speaker 13: was re elected, he effectively halved us again by not
[40:37] Speaker 13: increasing the staff numbers. And now that we're minor party status,
[40:41] Speaker 13: we've been recognized. We've just simply asked for exactly what
[40:44] Speaker 13: the National Party got, exactly what the Greens have had
[40:48] Speaker 13: in the past, the Democrats nothing more. But Albo has
[40:51] Speaker 13: just since November last year said not giving you a
[40:55] Speaker 13: single extra staff member. And yet the media, the public,
[41:00] Speaker 13: everyone else expects us to operate like a big party.
[41:04] Speaker 13: It's really difficult when you are honestly dealing with a
[41:08] Speaker 13: reduction in staff.
[41:09] Speaker 10: Well, it's a simple is.
[41:10] Speaker 1: That this is the thing.
[41:11] Speaker 2: It's the entire apparatus of government and politics. I think
[41:14] Speaker 2: it's a way they rig the system really first on
[41:16] Speaker 2: this one.
[41:16] Speaker 12: I think Elbow did it to try and crimp the
[41:19] Speaker 12: Greens in Brisbane in their three seats and their one
[41:22] Speaker 12: in Melbourne.
[41:23] Speaker 1: He's achieved so hey.
[41:25] Speaker 13: It's given him plenty and even gave him this multimillion
[41:27] Speaker 13: dollar office.
[41:28] Speaker 12: But I wouldn't be surprised if there's some pressure on,
[41:31] Speaker 12: particularly if there's a chance of minority government, then those
[41:34] Speaker 12: numbers might come back to.
[41:35] Speaker 1: What they were.
[41:36] Speaker 2: Lads, I do appreciate it, speaking of great men standing
[41:39] Speaker 2: by Nigel Farage for us in London? What are time
[41:42] Speaker 2: since we last spoke? How many home runs can the
[41:45] Speaker 2: bloke hit? Kick, push, whatever, whatever way the school board reads,
[41:50] Speaker 2: it's very good for Nigel Farage and he's next.
[41:57] Speaker 5: It's time for the man who's never.
[42:01] Speaker 1: Ah.
[42:02] Speaker 2: You know when you follow a football team from the
[42:04] Speaker 2: other side of the world and you cheer them on,
[42:05] Speaker 2: you cheer them on, you cheer them on. Well, that's
[42:07] Speaker 2: been the feeling of everyone watching this program for our
[42:10] Speaker 2: Nick Skiss, the great Nigel Farage, the leader of the
[42:12] Speaker 2: Reform Party, who has been kicking us all over the place. Mate,
[42:15] Speaker 2: what a time since we last spoke. Congratulations and what
[42:18] Speaker 2: a wave. I mean we're not talking about five or
[42:20] Speaker 2: six it's what fourteen hundred counselors were elected under the banner.
[42:25] Speaker 2: That's basically the same number of the Labor Party lost.
[42:31] Speaker 9: Yes, well, I've missed you all. It's great to be
[42:33] Speaker 9: back with you. Nine weeks on the road, relentlessly, six
[42:37] Speaker 9: days a week on the road, just turning up in
[42:40] Speaker 9: towns and high streets and wandering off and meeting people.
[42:44] Speaker 9: And well I got the odd bit of abuse, but
[42:46] Speaker 9: generally very warmly received The people voting for us are
[42:51] Speaker 9: people that work. Yes, they get up in the mornings,
[42:54] Speaker 9: they go to work, and they're being tax more and more,
[42:58] Speaker 9: and they're seeing their next door neighbors do nothing, get
[43:01] Speaker 9: a lunchtime delivery of food, smoke dope for the afternoon,
[43:05] Speaker 9: live on benefits, and they're almost as well off as
[43:08] Speaker 9: they are. So working people voted for us. What was
[43:11] Speaker 9: spectacular Pool was in the northeast, the northwest Yorkshire, parts
[43:16] Speaker 9: of South Wales, areas that had been rock solid labor
[43:22] Speaker 9: since the end of World War One fell to us
[43:26] Speaker 9: in the most massive way. It's very hard to underestimate
[43:30] Speaker 9: the sheer historical significance of what we've just done to
[43:34] Speaker 9: the Labor Party. They were called labor because they were
[43:38] Speaker 9: for working people, but they're not labor anymore. They're for
[43:41] Speaker 9: welfare instead. And that's what we've exposed.
[43:43] Speaker 2: And what's been fascinating and again being along for the ride,
[43:46] Speaker 2: checking in with you every week here is watching how
[43:49] Speaker 2: it's grown, how it's deepened, and also about how you
[43:54] Speaker 2: are presenting yourself as the eventual alternative first opposition and
[43:59] Speaker 2: then alternative government.
[44:01] Speaker 5: Right.
[44:02] Speaker 1: And I remember one of.
[44:02] Speaker 2: The things that you said post this massive result where
[44:05] Speaker 2: you started to get into this next area of growth
[44:09] Speaker 2: for reform, which is that it's not about left and right.
[44:11] Speaker 2: And that's really important too, because you know that the
[44:13] Speaker 2: detractors are going to say, oh, the far right this
[44:16] Speaker 2: and the far right that.
[44:17] Speaker 1: Come on.
[44:17] Speaker 2: If the working class is the base, then we know
[44:21] Speaker 2: that such paradigms are for debates ten years ago.
[44:26] Speaker 1: Talk to that about about that.
[44:28] Speaker 2: Yes, there are things that are absolutely core to belief,
[44:32] Speaker 2: but it's not about ideological identity of left and right
[44:35] Speaker 2: anymore when it comes to voting reform.
[44:40] Speaker 9: Well, our oak logod is family, community, country, So we're patriotic.
[44:45] Speaker 9: That shouldn't be left or right. We believe in a community,
[44:48] Speaker 9: and we know that mass migration breaks that community down,
[44:52] Speaker 9: especially if people don't share our language or want to
[44:55] Speaker 9: impose a different culture upon us. That shouldn't be left
[44:58] Speaker 9: or right. And believe it, the family and giving kids
[45:01] Speaker 9: a good started life again should not be left or right.
[45:06] Speaker 9: And very interesting, I mean large numbers of trade union
[45:09] Speaker 9: members are now voting reform or its. Historically you would
[45:13] Speaker 9: have thought they would have all voted labor. This is now.
[45:17] Speaker 9: This is now about values. Either you believe in protecting borders.
[45:21] Speaker 9: Either you believe in your flag, either you're proud of
[45:24] Speaker 9: British history, you know, either you actually really want a
[45:27] Speaker 9: society where people work, make money and get rewarded. Or
[45:31] Speaker 9: you take the alternative view, which is we're all one
[45:34] Speaker 9: big world, a world without borders, a world where the
[45:39] Speaker 9: national flag is frankly an embarrassment and not to be
[45:42] Speaker 9: discussed at smart dinner parties, and where there's enough money
[45:46] Speaker 9: to pay people welfare for the rest of their lives.
[45:49] Speaker 9: They are two completely different visions, and I suppose rather
[45:52] Speaker 9: than left or right, it's sort of uber liberal against
[45:57] Speaker 9: strongly patriotic. That is how I would reshape it. You know,
[46:01] Speaker 9: the Labor Party, the Labor Party, since its formation, were
[46:06] Speaker 9: always deemed to be by the working classes the most
[46:09] Speaker 9: patriotic party in the country. Well now it's a bunch
[46:12] Speaker 9: of North London lawyers who will give away our overseas
[46:16] Speaker 9: possessions and bow down to Brussels. They even now want
[46:20] Speaker 9: to rejoin the EU and reverse Braxit. So they're the
[46:25] Speaker 9: new rules.
[46:26] Speaker 2: So let's talk about Starmer where we know, essentially until
[46:30] Speaker 2: the right person comes along, he'll find a way to
[46:32] Speaker 2: stumble along.
[46:33] Speaker 6: Right.
[46:34] Speaker 2: The absurdity of this idea that you know, the great
[46:37] Speaker 2: hope for the party is a guy who's not even
[46:39] Speaker 2: in the Parliament yet, and it's not a foregone conclusion
[46:41] Speaker 2: about it. By election obviously reform could very much be competitive.
[46:46] Speaker 2: If not win that seat, then of course it's the
[46:49] Speaker 2: membership that makes the decision, and the options only seem
[46:52] Speaker 2: to be worse and worse and worse. While Key Starmer
[46:54] Speaker 2: is the best thing for your political career, Angel Loraina
[46:58] Speaker 2: would be a super jud do it, wouldn't it a
[47:01] Speaker 2: super judge.
[47:04] Speaker 9: But it was funny because our campaign slogan was vote
[47:08] Speaker 9: reform and get Starmer out, and that was being chanted
[47:11] Speaker 9: up and down the country. The funny thing was the
[47:14] Speaker 9: next morning I did a big press conference and someone said, well,
[47:19] Speaker 9: this could be the most successful campaign slogan in history.
[47:22] Speaker 9: I said, no, please do stay on for another couple
[47:24] Speaker 9: of years before you go, because he's our best asset.
[47:29] Speaker 9: So there's always irony in success. You know what, if
[47:33] Speaker 9: it's a Rainer, if it's a Burnham, the party goes
[47:37] Speaker 9: further to the left, further into fantasy, make belief about budgets,
[47:42] Speaker 9: about welfare, about about the attitudes towards business, and already
[47:48] Speaker 9: already we can see that borrowing rates for government are
[47:52] Speaker 9: the highest they've been since nineteen ninety eight, with significantly
[47:57] Speaker 9: higher than France or Germany or Italy. The markets are
[48:02] Speaker 9: taking fright. They can see the sums don't add up.
[48:05] Speaker 9: And I'm still of the view that Starmer going, whoever
[48:09] Speaker 9: replaces him, will have the briefest of honeymoons. And I
[48:12] Speaker 9: still think that an economic breakdown brings us an early
[48:15] Speaker 9: election next year. And I've had that view going way
[48:18] Speaker 9: back to twenty twenty four. They are a disaster. They
[48:22] Speaker 9: don't understand the real world. None of them have ever
[48:25] Speaker 9: had a proper job. They don't get it. They don't
[48:27] Speaker 9: get how tough it is for the self employed, for
[48:29] Speaker 9: small businesses.
[48:31] Speaker 1: Good man, thank you, Nige.
[48:32] Speaker 2: We do appreciate and of course when it comes to
[48:34] Speaker 2: this government, right, it's not the jockey, it's the horse
[48:36] Speaker 2: and the horses the ass all right, Thank you, mat
[48:39] Speaker 2: to appreciate it. We'll talk to you again at next
[48:40] Speaker 2: week Niger fraj. How good to have him back and
[48:43] Speaker 2: I have him.
[48:43] Speaker 1: Just surging all across the UK. More in a second
[48:51] Speaker 1: bang on top of the hour.
[48:52] Speaker 2: We'll see you again tomorrow night when Our special guest
[48:54] Speaker 2: is Meghan Kelly and here is the Late Debate

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