# Paul Murray Live | 11 November

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 11 Nov 2025, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/308233db-7b62-4149-b3c0-b39200bb0af0/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

The prime minister backs Chris Minns on banning Nazi slogans, Jacinta Allan promises a ban on face masks at protests. Plus, one of ABC's best known presenters warns that the Liberal Party will face brand damage if they ditch Sussan Ley. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live.
[0:06] Speaker 2: Well, good evening and welcome to the show. I'm James
[0:08] Speaker 2: Macpherson filling in for Paul Murray Live. Paul Murray Live
[0:12] Speaker 2: in the man Cave. Coming up on tonight's program, The
[0:15] Speaker 2: PM backs Chris Mins on banning Nazi Slogan's sensible policy
[0:20] Speaker 2: or a free speech nightmare. My panel will weigh in
[0:22] Speaker 2: on that. Speaking of the ABC, one of their best
[0:26] Speaker 2: known presenters is warning that the Liberal Party will face
[0:29] Speaker 2: brand damage if they ditch Susan Lee, because well she's
[0:33] Speaker 2: a woman and just into Allan's promised ban on face
[0:36] Speaker 2: masks at protests looks like it'll be about as effective
[0:39] Speaker 2: as her machete amnesty bins. I'll talk to David Limbrick shortly,
[0:43] Speaker 2: but first, as you know, the COP thirty conference is
[0:47] Speaker 2: currently underway on the edge of Brazil's Amazon rainforest, and
[0:51] Speaker 2: it features all the exaggerations and hilarious hypocrisy you've come
[0:55] Speaker 2: to expect from elites who fly their private jets to
[0:58] Speaker 2: the edge of a rainforest their pretending to protect. It's
[1:02] Speaker 2: a head cocktail of apocalyptic narcissism and olympian self regard
[1:07] Speaker 2: Let's start with the self regard as COP thirty is
[1:11] Speaker 2: a place where the only thing rising faster than global
[1:13] Speaker 2: temperatures are global egos. Have a listen to how the
[1:17] Speaker 2: UN's Climate Secretary is introduced at COP thirty. The intoxicating
[1:22] Speaker 2: introduction will give you a small insight into one of
[1:25] Speaker 2: the reasons Anthony Albanesi and Chris Bowen are so desperate
[1:29] Speaker 2: to host COP thirty one in Australia next year.
[1:33] Speaker 3: Distinguished Delegates, friends and colleagues, it is my pleasure to
[1:37] Speaker 3: invite Simon Steele, unf CC Executive Secretary to address the plannary.
[1:44] Speaker 2: Simon Steele will address the planet. Come on, who wouldn't
[1:48] Speaker 2: love that line on their LinkedIn profile? Yeah, I've done
[1:52] Speaker 2: a few things. One time I addressed the planet. The
[1:55] Speaker 2: UN Climate Secretary didn't just address the planet, though, he
[1:58] Speaker 2: scolded it. He wagged his finger and warned the people
[2:02] Speaker 2: of the world they would never be forgiven if they
[2:04] Speaker 2: failed to do as he and his climate bedwedding friends want.
[2:08] Speaker 2: Think greater in a suit threatening eternal damnation.
[2:13] Speaker 4: To falter whilst mega drafts wreck national harvests, sending food
[2:19] Speaker 4: prices soaring makes zero sense economically or politically to squabble
[2:28] Speaker 4: while famines take hold, forcing millions to flee their homelands.
[2:34] Speaker 4: This will never be forgotten as conflicts spread while climate
[2:40] Speaker 4: disasters decimate the lives of millions, when we already have
[2:45] Speaker 4: the solutions, This will never ever be forgiven.
[2:50] Speaker 2: Come on, it was really just a grown up version
[2:53] Speaker 2: of this.
[2:55] Speaker 5: Entire ecosystems are collapsing. We are in the beginning of
[3:00] Speaker 5: a mass extinction, and all you.
[3:02] Speaker 2: Can talk about is the.
[3:04] Speaker 5: Money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth.
[3:08] Speaker 2: How dare you? And then there was the Brazilian president.
[3:12] Speaker 2: He was given fourteen minutes to address the planet. Here's
[3:16] Speaker 2: how the BBC you know who they are, reported his
[3:19] Speaker 2: speech quote fight fake news and defeat climate deniers. Brazil's
[3:25] Speaker 2: Lula tells un talks. The BBC editor who wrote that
[3:29] Speaker 2: headline sure has a hide right now. The British broadcaster
[3:33] Speaker 2: is to fake news what McDonald's is to fries. Anyway,
[3:37] Speaker 2: he is Brazil's president.
[3:39] Speaker 6: Corp thirty will be the Corp of.
[3:42] Speaker 2: Truth when he cuts down the Amazonian rainforest to build
[3:47] Speaker 2: a four lane highway so people can get to the
[3:49] Speaker 2: fundraising gala sorry climate conference at which he's spooking for
[3:54] Speaker 2: money to save the Amazonian rainforest. He's just bulldozed. Well,
[3:58] Speaker 2: I guess COP thirty certainly is the cop of truth,
[4:02] Speaker 2: maybe just not in the way he thinks it is
[4:05] Speaker 2: in their.
[4:06] Speaker 6: Ear of fake news and misinformation to Obscuritons reject not
[4:10] Speaker 6: only the evidence by science, but also the multilantalism progress.
[4:18] Speaker 6: They control algorithms, so hatred and spread fear the attack institutions,
[4:25] Speaker 6: their attack science at the universities.
[4:27] Speaker 1: Now it's the moment to impose a new defeat to
[4:30] Speaker 1: the denialists.
[4:32] Speaker 2: I love how these guys insist they have evidence and
[4:35] Speaker 2: science on their side, but then use religiously inspired terms
[4:39] Speaker 2: to argue we must defect the denialists. My favorite part
[4:43] Speaker 2: of the President's speech to COP thirty was the bit
[4:46] Speaker 2: where he rhapsodized about the rainforest, that lush cathedral of
[4:50] Speaker 2: nature whispering wisdom to the gathered elite as they sip
[4:53] Speaker 2: their sustainable champagne.
[4:56] Speaker 6: So I hope that serenity of the fire will inspire
[5:02] Speaker 6: all of us to clarify our necessary thought, to see
[5:09] Speaker 6: what needs to be done. A good CORP thirty four, Oh,
[5:13] Speaker 6: thank you very much.
[5:15] Speaker 2: Ah, Yes, the transcendent serenity of the rainforest. After that
[5:20] Speaker 2: profoundly spiritual moment, the President did what all great environmental
[5:24] Speaker 2: visionaries do. He returned to his lodgings on a luxury boat,
[5:28] Speaker 2: where his wife was filmed dancing earlier in the week.
[5:41] Speaker 2: Nothing says we must save the planet like a climate
[5:44] Speaker 2: emergency on the top deck next to the child Prosecco.
[5:48] Speaker 2: Have a good cop he says, Oh, and they will.
[5:51] Speaker 2: It's the rest of us who will copy it, and
[5:53] Speaker 2: just to tie the bow on the hypocrisy. According to
[5:56] Speaker 2: Brazilian media that presidential pleasure cruiser will turn through at
[6:00] Speaker 2: least four thousand liters of diesel over the course of
[6:04] Speaker 2: the climate summit. Of course it will, after all, nothing
[6:08] Speaker 2: fuels environmental virtue quite like fossil fuels.
[6:16] Speaker 7: Well.
[6:16] Speaker 2: Susan Lee is now being informed in urgent trembling tones
[6:21] Speaker 2: that if she doesn't commit to net zero at tomorrow's
[6:23] Speaker 2: Liberal party room meeting, half the moderates will faint to
[6:26] Speaker 2: resign or spontaneously combust. On the set of the ABC,
[6:30] Speaker 2: A number of the usual suspects have gone public, threatening
[6:34] Speaker 2: to leave the front bench if Lee so much as
[6:36] Speaker 2: hesitates on net zero. Most notable was Andrew Bragg. If
[6:41] Speaker 2: the party doesn't stay in Paris and some sort of
[6:44] Speaker 2: net zero commitment, you'll quit. Well, sure, but I don't
[6:47] Speaker 2: imagine that we would ever leave Paris.
[6:49] Speaker 8: I mean we're a party of government, right, We're not
[6:51] Speaker 8: a fringed party.
[6:53] Speaker 2: Other moderates hinting they may heroically retire to the back
[6:56] Speaker 2: bench to protest in favor of high power price is,
[7:00] Speaker 2: intermittent energy and vandalized agricultural land include Tim Wilson, Maria
[7:05] Speaker 2: Kovikik and Paul scar But what I want to know
[7:09] Speaker 2: is whether their threat to quit was just a threat
[7:13] Speaker 2: or a promise, because many Australians would argue it's precisely
[7:16] Speaker 2: this cohort who've transformed the Liberal Party into labor but
[7:20] Speaker 2: with blue ties and rendered the Liberals about us electorally
[7:23] Speaker 2: compelling as sugar free. Pavlova Townsville MP Philip Thompson was
[7:28] Speaker 2: asked today what he thought about all this we may
[7:31] Speaker 2: resign in anguish routine. His reply, I got to say,
[7:36] Speaker 2: was refreshingly adult.
[7:38] Speaker 9: We've seen now people threaten to quit positions and throw
[7:42] Speaker 9: all their toys out of the kit. Once again, the
[7:44] Speaker 9: Liberal Party talking about itself and to you know those
[7:46] Speaker 9: people who want to threaten to quit then quit. You're
[7:49] Speaker 9: not that important.
[7:50] Speaker 2: Anyway, Absolutely magnificent at last, a liberal willing to say
[7:55] Speaker 2: the quiet bit out loud. If your version of courage
[7:58] Speaker 2: is threatened to quit the bench, unless Susan Lee hugs
[8:02] Speaker 2: the Paris Agreement as tightly as the Greens, well maybe
[8:05] Speaker 2: you're in the wrong party. So thank you for your service,
[8:08] Speaker 2: Philip Thompson. I mean for dealing effectively with the terrorists
[8:12] Speaker 2: in Afghanistan and in the Liberal Party. Now, the International
[8:21] Speaker 2: Olympic Committee is reportedly set to announce a ban on
[8:25] Speaker 2: transgender women, by which I mean biological men competing against females.
[8:30] Speaker 2: That's right. After years of ideological contortions worthy of a
[8:34] Speaker 2: gymnastics gold medal, the IOC has finally reached a conclusion
[8:38] Speaker 2: that the rest of us have known for well forever.
[8:42] Speaker 2: Men and women really are different, really different. Who would
[8:46] Speaker 2: have thought, Honestly, it beggars belief that the International Olympic
[8:50] Speaker 2: Committee needed a multi year, multidisciplinary scientific study to work
[8:56] Speaker 2: out that biological men shouldn't compete against females even after
[9:01] Speaker 2: taking treatment to reduce testosterone levels. The UK Times reported
[9:05] Speaker 2: that today the initial findings of the review had concluded
[9:09] Speaker 2: and I quote, scientific evidence showed there were physical advantages
[9:14] Speaker 2: to being born male that remained with athletes, including those
[9:18] Speaker 2: who had taken treatment to reduce testosterone levels, to which
[9:23] Speaker 2: one hundred percent of teenagers would reply, dur, that's a
[9:27] Speaker 2: scientific term, meaning well, of course. An Olympic official who
[9:31] Speaker 2: sat in on the presentation breathlessly told The Times it
[9:35] Speaker 2: was a very scientific, factual and unemotional presentation which quite
[9:40] Speaker 2: clearly laid out the evidence. Well wow, my great grandmother
[9:46] Speaker 2: could have given the same presentation while doing the ironing
[9:50] Speaker 2: with a baby on a hip. While the IOC's decision
[9:53] Speaker 2: is not expected to be formally made until next year,
[9:57] Speaker 2: it will be, of course a welcome one expected to
[10:00] Speaker 2: cover not only trans athletes but also those with differences
[10:03] Speaker 2: in sex development or DSD, and therefore means will no
[10:07] Speaker 2: longer see athletes who would qualify as biological men beating
[10:11] Speaker 2: up on women in the boxing ring or out running
[10:14] Speaker 2: them on the track. To that, I say good. But
[10:19] Speaker 2: what does it say about Western culture that we ever
[10:22] Speaker 2: reached a point where we required people in white lab
[10:25] Speaker 2: coats to explain to us the difference between a man
[10:29] Speaker 2: and a woman. Think about it. The Olympic movement can
[10:33] Speaker 2: determine the winner of a one hundred meter sprint within
[10:36] Speaker 2: two hundredths of a second, yet they require a full
[10:40] Speaker 2: scientific review to decide where the biological men who've undergone
[10:44] Speaker 2: hormone therapy might have an advantage when running against the ladies.
[10:49] Speaker 2: The same Olympic bureaucrats who maintain liberal laboratories dedicated to
[10:54] Speaker 2: measuring within parts per trillion whether an athlete is used
[10:58] Speaker 2: the wrong nasal spray somehow needed years of research to
[11:02] Speaker 2: confirm what any pe teacher could have told them. The
[11:06] Speaker 2: IOC's expected decision to ban trans women from women's events
[11:11] Speaker 2: would be the correct decision, but they shouldn't expect us
[11:13] Speaker 2: to start fawning over them as if they've just, I
[11:16] Speaker 2: don't know, split the atom. All they will have done
[11:19] Speaker 2: is to announce what humans have known for thousands of years,
[11:22] Speaker 2: as if it's breaking news. But there's a bigger lesson
[11:26] Speaker 2: here that goes beyond just sport. It's really important to
[11:31] Speaker 2: remember that this sudden expected shift back to normalcy hasn't
[11:36] Speaker 2: happened by accident. During Joe Biden's presidency, schools, sports bodies,
[11:42] Speaker 2: media outlets were all being nudged, sometimes more like shoved
[11:47] Speaker 2: into treating obvious biological differences as socially constructed.
[11:52] Speaker 10: Does he think it's.
[11:53] Speaker 4: Fair for girls to have to compete against biological meal I've.
[11:56] Speaker 7: Just answered the question. It is a complicated issue. Is
[12:00] Speaker 7: truly a complicated issue with a wide range of views,
[12:03] Speaker 7: a wide range of views. There is no yes or
[12:06] Speaker 7: no answer to this. It is complicated.
[12:10] Speaker 2: It wasn't complex. There weren't a wide range of views,
[12:13] Speaker 2: and it certainly wasn't about inclusion. It was a carefully choreographed,
[12:17] Speaker 2: woke performance, backed by bureaucratic muscle and elite signaling, the
[12:22] Speaker 2: result of which was that women were systematically edged out
[12:25] Speaker 2: of competitions designed to ensure they could compete fairly. Young
[12:29] Speaker 2: women who trained for a decade were expected to quietly
[12:33] Speaker 2: accept defeat at the hands of athletes believed to qualify
[12:36] Speaker 2: as biological men, and of course they were expected to
[12:40] Speaker 2: clap politely. While the ideology justified the injustice. The IOC's
[12:46] Speaker 2: decision now to ban trans women and men with disordered
[12:49] Speaker 2: sexual development from women's events. It's not a sudden conversion,
[12:55] Speaker 2: it's a forced correction. It's a correction. They had to
[12:58] Speaker 2: make because the results could no longer be ignored. Today,
[13:03] Speaker 2: the very committees that for years had insisted there's no
[13:06] Speaker 2: advantage will now effectively admit the advantage is overwhelmingly true
[13:12] Speaker 2: and evident, and the results reflect it. The IOC hasn't
[13:16] Speaker 2: discovered anything new, They've just well, I guess they've discovered reality,
[13:20] Speaker 2: haven't they. And the fact is reality always wins. The
[13:24] Speaker 2: only question is how long you have to wait and
[13:27] Speaker 2: how much damage is done in the meantime. It's important
[13:30] Speaker 2: here to acknowledge the difference leadership makes. Strong leaders confront
[13:35] Speaker 2: inconvenient truths even when they disrupt the preferred narrative, but
[13:39] Speaker 2: weak leaders will they twist reality to protect the ideology.
[13:44] Speaker 2: And that's exactly what the Joe Biden Kamala Harris administration
[13:47] Speaker 2: repeatedly did, pushing institutions to pretend that biological differences didn't exist.
[13:55] Speaker 2: Donald Trump, by contrast, will He's consistently emphasized at policy
[14:00] Speaker 2: should reflect reality, not the latest fashionable trend.
[14:04] Speaker 8: I'm breaking news out of Washington now.
[14:06] Speaker 9: President Donald Trump has just signed an executive order that
[14:10] Speaker 9: bans transgender athletes.
[14:12] Speaker 2: From participating in girls and women's sports. Now, the fact
[14:15] Speaker 2: is a civilization can't function, or at least not for long,
[14:20] Speaker 2: if truth is treated as negotiable. The unreality we've had
[14:24] Speaker 2: to put up within Sport is not that dissimilar to
[14:27] Speaker 2: the unrealities we're now putting up within the law in
[14:30] Speaker 2: education and in civic norms because of an obsession with
[14:34] Speaker 2: identity politics that demands truth is set aside. But just
[14:39] Speaker 2: maybe a return to truth in Sport signals a return
[14:43] Speaker 2: to truth in other areas as well. We're coming up
[14:47] Speaker 2: after the break. One of the ABC's best known presenters
[14:51] Speaker 2: is warning the Liberal Party will face brand damage if
[14:54] Speaker 2: they ditch Susan Lee, because well, Susan Lee's a woman.
[14:58] Speaker 2: I'm joined by James Ashby and Linda Scott in just
[15:01] Speaker 2: a moment. Well, to survive as Liberal leader, Susan Lee
[15:08] Speaker 2: only has to do three things. First, guide her colleagues
[15:11] Speaker 2: to make the right call on met zero tomorrow. Second,
[15:15] Speaker 2: unite her hopelessly divided party, and third make sure she
[15:19] Speaker 2: keeps the coalition with the Nationals on track. Shouldn't be
[15:22] Speaker 2: a problem.
[15:24] Speaker 8: Is she the right leader to go forward for the
[15:26] Speaker 8: Liberal Party?
[15:27] Speaker 10: That's what I'm looking for in the next coming days.
[15:29] Speaker 10: But it's very clear to me that we need clear
[15:32] Speaker 10: leadership to drive through this Conversation's up to all of
[15:36] Speaker 10: us to do that.
[15:38] Speaker 2: That doesn't sound like a key endorsement.
[15:41] Speaker 10: Now, I'm happy to endorse the leader. That's not the issue.
[15:44] Speaker 10: If we're just going to break into tribal parts without
[15:47] Speaker 10: any acknowledgment of the responsibility we hold to each other,
[15:50] Speaker 10: we are going to find ourselves boxed into a very
[15:53] Speaker 10: difficult position.
[15:55] Speaker 2: You know how I said it shouldn't be a problem.
[15:57] Speaker 2: Maybe it's a bit of a problem.
[16:00] Speaker 9: Defense taught me one thing, be a team player, and
[16:03] Speaker 9: I don't think we've seen that of late. We've seen
[16:06] Speaker 9: now people threatened to quit positions and throw all their
[16:09] Speaker 9: toys out of the kit. Once again, the Liberal party
[16:12] Speaker 9: talking about itself. And to know, those people who want
[16:14] Speaker 9: to threaten to quit, then quit. You're not that important anyway.
[16:18] Speaker 9: We need to get on with the job, which is
[16:21] Speaker 9: creating an alternative alternative for what this government is and
[16:26] Speaker 9: to make sure that we're putting our best policies forward.
[16:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Susan Lee has got all sorts of problems.
[16:32] Speaker 2: Joining me is One Nation's chief of Staff, James Ashby
[16:35] Speaker 2: and former labor counselor Linda Scott. Welcome to you both, James.
[16:39] Speaker 2: I'll start with you. One Nation have surged in the
[16:42] Speaker 2: polls on the back of liberal indecision on net zero
[16:45] Speaker 2: and immigration. If Susan Lee ditches net zero and then
[16:49] Speaker 2: comes out strong on curtailing runaway immigration, are you worried
[16:53] Speaker 2: the gains you've made will be lost from one Nation?
[17:00] Speaker 2: I don't think so, James.
[17:01] Speaker 8: We know that this has been spurred on because of
[17:05] Speaker 8: the strong language used by One Nation. We've been decisive
[17:08] Speaker 8: on this whole rubbish of net zero for well ever
[17:12] Speaker 8: since it came out, so we've been talking about this
[17:15] Speaker 8: for a very long time and making our point very
[17:17] Speaker 8: clear to the Australian voters. I think now over that
[17:20] Speaker 8: nine years that we've been telling the Australian public just
[17:24] Speaker 8: why their power bills are going up, why the country
[17:27] Speaker 8: continues to go into greater debt, why cost of living
[17:30] Speaker 8: has been driven higher and higher. People are starting to understand.
[17:35] Speaker 8: For Susan Lee and her cohort to say anything. But
[17:40] Speaker 8: if they were to get into government, they would write
[17:42] Speaker 8: a letter which is presented to the ambassador who sits
[17:46] Speaker 8: with the UN, present it to the UN and say
[17:49] Speaker 8: we are out. Nothing shorter than that will do, because
[17:54] Speaker 8: you can't be.
[17:54] Speaker 2: Half pregnant in this instance.
[17:56] Speaker 8: And if you want to be a true leader, Susan,
[17:58] Speaker 8: you need to step up to the plate and say
[18:00] Speaker 8: we're out of Paris, because saying anything less, you're still in. Therefore,
[18:04] Speaker 8: you've got to meet these fifty net fifty, sorry, twenty
[18:08] Speaker 8: to fifty targets of net zero. That is the end
[18:12] Speaker 8: goal of this Paris Agreement that we're a signatory to.
[18:16] Speaker 8: The other point i'll point out to you, James's this,
[18:18] Speaker 8: unless you get out of Paris like the US have done,
[18:22] Speaker 8: you cannot alter it. It's as plain and simple as that.
[18:26] Speaker 8: You cannot alter it. So if anything, get out and
[18:30] Speaker 8: then renegotiate it with a better deal that is done
[18:34] Speaker 8: where we can carve out industries that at the moment
[18:37] Speaker 8: are being destroyed in this country. Coal mining is one
[18:39] Speaker 8: of them, steal and other manufacturing's being killed as well.
[18:42] Speaker 8: And until we get out of Paris, we will see
[18:46] Speaker 8: GDP drop when it comes to our manufacturing. We're already
[18:50] Speaker 8: a country that's gone from the fifties and sixties where
[18:53] Speaker 8: we had twenty five percent of GDP made up of
[18:55] Speaker 8: manufacturing down to a lousy five percent. It can't get
[18:59] Speaker 8: any worse. Seriously, they have to get out of Paris.
[19:02] Speaker 8: That's the only true leadership called that Susan Lee can
[19:05] Speaker 8: make to survive.
[19:07] Speaker 1: Well.
[19:07] Speaker 2: Speaking of leadership, James and I agree with you that
[19:10] Speaker 2: whatever anyone thinks about net zero, you've got to give
[19:13] Speaker 2: one nation this. You've been consistent the entire time. Pauline
[19:18] Speaker 2: Hansen certainly speaks from conviction. But Linda, I think whatever
[19:23] Speaker 2: Susan Lee does, I don't know that anyone will believe
[19:27] Speaker 2: that she's really convinced. And it's not just on net zero.
[19:31] Speaker 2: I remember when she gave her first speech at the
[19:34] Speaker 2: Press Club, she talked about the need to get more
[19:36] Speaker 2: women into the Liberal Party, but then said she was agnostic,
[19:40] Speaker 2: not really sure one way or another about quotas. So
[19:44] Speaker 2: I feel like she seems to have this problem where
[19:47] Speaker 2: you can't quite pin down what she really believes. She's
[19:51] Speaker 2: more about consensus and taking the temperature of the room
[19:54] Speaker 2: and getting working groups. This is I think going to
[19:57] Speaker 2: be a problem. Whatever way the chips for on that.
[20:00] Speaker 11: Zero look sadly, it could be any day of the week,
[20:06] Speaker 11: but today, of all days, on Remembrance Day, when the
[20:10] Speaker 11: Liberal Party has yet again not spoken about the contribution
[20:14] Speaker 11: of veterans, the incredible historic significance of this day not
[20:20] Speaker 11: just for Remembrance Day, it's obviously also the fiftieth anniversary
[20:24] Speaker 11: of one of the most significant political events in this country,
[20:27] Speaker 11: the unjustacking of Prime Minister GoF Whitlam. And yet all
[20:32] Speaker 11: we want to have on that zero and again is
[20:36] Speaker 11: talking about themselves and their own internal fight. James, I
[20:41] Speaker 11: think it's disappointing to hear you continuing with this very
[20:46] Speaker 11: unscientific line that we should, you know, pull out of
[20:49] Speaker 11: international agreements.
[20:51] Speaker 12: That we've already committed to.
[20:54] Speaker 11: It's very disappointing to hear you persist with these untruths
[20:57] Speaker 11: about the fact that this form of moving to renewable
[21:00] Speaker 11: energy is somehow anything other than the cheapest, most effective,
[21:06] Speaker 11: most science evidence based way to power Australia moving forward.
[21:11] Speaker 11: But yet here we are with one nation, and the
[21:14] Speaker 11: National and the Liberals very mist united in their disagreement
[21:18] Speaker 11: about the cheapest, best way to move forward on energy policy.
[21:22] Speaker 11: Something that almost every other nation in the world is
[21:26] Speaker 11: something Australia signed up to under a Conservative agreement the
[21:30] Speaker 11: Paris accord, and yet here we are the one nation
[21:35] Speaker 11: National Party and Liberal Party trying to align themselves together.
[21:38] Speaker 8: We have promised to very city bills by Linda's Labor
[21:42] Speaker 8: Party under Albanesi, and it's never been delivered.
[21:44] Speaker 12: And we've got account three hours.
[21:48] Speaker 8: Of ten thousand kilometers worth of more high transmission voltage
[21:53] Speaker 8: power lines. They used to be two million dollars a kilometer, mate,
[21:56] Speaker 8: they're now twelve to fourteen million dollars a kilometer. This
[21:59] Speaker 8: is where people's power bills are going up because someone's
[22:02] Speaker 8: got to pay for it. And it's all wonderful. Look,
[22:05] Speaker 8: I love Sola, I've got it on my rooftop. But
[22:07] Speaker 8: to go and put them five thousand kilometers in the
[22:09] Speaker 8: middle of nowhere and then have to run these new
[22:12] Speaker 8: high transmission power lines to get this power back to
[22:15] Speaker 8: the city folk, it's just unachievable. And we're destroying prime
[22:19] Speaker 8: agricultural land in the process. We're putting wind turbines all
[22:23] Speaker 8: over our touresque scenery. And yeah, Linda lives in the city,
[22:27] Speaker 8: so she doesn't quite understand this. But for people like
[22:29] Speaker 8: me who live with a beautiful bush setting behind me,
[22:32] Speaker 8: I don't want it.
[22:33] Speaker 2: Demolished.
[22:34] Speaker 8: I don't want it demolished for the sake of solar
[22:37] Speaker 8: panels that have a very very short life. I don't
[22:40] Speaker 8: want the treetops demolished for the sake of your wind
[22:43] Speaker 8: turbines because it's killing koalas. And Labor themselves have admitted
[22:47] Speaker 8: that the best practice when they say a koala fall
[22:49] Speaker 8: out of the tree is going club.
[22:51] Speaker 1: It to death.
[22:52] Speaker 8: This is the nonsense that Dew and the Greens are
[22:55] Speaker 8: putting in the minds of kids, to say it's okay
[22:58] Speaker 8: to go and trash the environment for your solar panels,
[23:02] Speaker 8: and the same breath a farmer can't clear so that
[23:04] Speaker 8: he can feed the rest of the world.
[23:07] Speaker 2: It's just silly.
[23:08] Speaker 8: I don't get you.
[23:10] Speaker 11: You want to respond to that, late James, I'm I'm
[23:13] Speaker 11: quite relaxed about you not getting me.
[23:15] Speaker 12: I'm not unhappy with that.
[23:16] Speaker 11: But I think it's important to acknowledge that over the
[23:19] Speaker 11: last two elections the Liberals have lost thirty three seats,
[23:23] Speaker 11: right twenty six of those in urban areas.
[23:26] Speaker 12: So I think it is true to.
[23:28] Speaker 11: Acknowledge that the Liberals and Nationals as a group, as
[23:32] Speaker 11: you know, the major party of opposition or government in
[23:35] Speaker 11: this country for many, many decades no longer represent urban areas.
[23:40] Speaker 12: And that's a very significant thing.
[23:42] Speaker 11: And it is, let's be honest, in part because of
[23:44] Speaker 11: their inability to accept the science around the danger of
[23:49] Speaker 11: global warming and the science around everything that people have
[23:54] Speaker 11: come together globally to unite around an effort to move
[23:57] Speaker 11: forward to a safer, more efficient, more effective energy in
[24:01] Speaker 11: the form of a mix of higher proportion of renewable
[24:04] Speaker 11: energy in our grid.
[24:06] Speaker 12: James.
[24:06] Speaker 11: Of course, like any piece of infrastructure, our grid needs replacing.
[24:10] Speaker 11: Of course, like any piece of infrastructure, these coal mines.
[24:14] Speaker 12: They know you're going to get they come to the
[24:17] Speaker 12: end of their lives.
[24:18] Speaker 8: Fire power station and nuclear a debate you.
[24:21] Speaker 2: Won't even have.
[24:23] Speaker 8: And on one other point of hypocrisy, James, anything, the
[24:26] Speaker 8: Liberal Party disgraceful. The Liberal Party are disgraceful to think
[24:31] Speaker 8: they couldn't have come to the conclusion of either dropping
[24:34] Speaker 8: or keeping their net zero policy. No, instead they've taken
[24:37] Speaker 8: an extra week. And for a political party like Andrew
[24:41] Speaker 8: Bragg and Tim Wilson and Anne Rusten who have all
[24:45] Speaker 8: threatened to quit here, they are going to jump on
[24:48] Speaker 8: jets to fly back to Canberra to have this debate
[24:50] Speaker 8: when they could have done it on the Friday or
[24:52] Speaker 8: Saturday straight after Parliament and save taxpayers a hell of
[24:55] Speaker 8: a lot of money and save the environment they claim
[24:58] Speaker 8: they're so worried about.
[25:00] Speaker 2: Tell you what I reckon, Anthony Albanezi will be praying
[25:02] Speaker 2: that Susan Lee commits to net zero because if they
[25:07] Speaker 2: abandon net zero then one will get for the first time.
[25:10] Speaker 2: Is a decent debate about the Labor government policies that,
[25:15] Speaker 2: despite Chris Bowen's promise of three hours free electricity, if
[25:19] Speaker 2: you live in certain parts of the country, Linda, and
[25:21] Speaker 2: if you have certain qualifications you will get free power.
[25:24] Speaker 2: I don't think anyone's really much comforted by that.
[25:29] Speaker 12: Well, I think they are.
[25:29] Speaker 11: I mean, free powers, free power, and that's a fantastic
[25:32] Speaker 11: offer from the Labor government and I think we should
[25:35] Speaker 11: all celebrate it.
[25:35] Speaker 12: But also let's but it's not.
[25:40] Speaker 8: It's off our power bill too.
[25:41] Speaker 2: That never come to fruition.
[25:43] Speaker 11: You can both, you can both keep arguing over the
[25:46] Speaker 11: top of me, but let's look where it's leading the
[25:48] Speaker 11: Liberal and National Party electorally.
[25:49] Speaker 12: I've already spoken about.
[25:50] Speaker 11: The thirty three seats they've lost in the last two elections.
[25:53] Speaker 11: Let's look at the Act for example, where the Chief
[25:56] Speaker 11: Minister Andrew bar Now is up.
[25:58] Speaker 12: To his fifth Opposition leader in his term.
[26:03] Speaker 11: They cannot agree on a leader, so much so that
[26:06] Speaker 11: forty four percent of their party room have been former
[26:10] Speaker 11: or current leaders. Like, of the nine people in that
[26:12] Speaker 11: party room, three of them have been leaders, and they
[26:16] Speaker 11: still can't defeat a Labor government in the Act like electorally.
[26:21] Speaker 12: This is not what the majority of Australia with.
[26:24] Speaker 2: You on that fact in a Liberal party the.
[26:26] Speaker 11: Space of science that the Liberal and National Party are
[26:30] Speaker 11: opposing the action that a Labor government is taking to
[26:34] Speaker 11: create cheaper, better forms of power, again in the form
[26:38] Speaker 11: of having a majority of renewables in our system. Australians
[26:42] Speaker 11: know this, they know this, and they keep voting for it.
[26:45] Speaker 11: And yet small fringe groups like one Nation increasingly the
[26:49] Speaker 11: Liberal and National Party following this path two are defying
[26:53] Speaker 11: the world and what the world is doing together. It's
[26:56] Speaker 11: just ridiculous and it's going to damage If the Liberal
[27:00] Speaker 11: come to a position where they oppose creating, you know,
[27:03] Speaker 11: a sensible energy policy, a policy that the majority of
[27:08] Speaker 11: Australian's overwhelmingly back.
[27:10] Speaker 12: It is clearly only doing damage to themselves.
[27:13] Speaker 2: Well, Linda, you spoke about what nation it's being a
[27:16] Speaker 2: fringe party. Pauline Hanson is back from her trip overseas
[27:20] Speaker 2: to Seapac where she's brushed shoulders with Donald Trump, who
[27:24] Speaker 2: incidentally has pulled out of net zero and Nigel Ferras.
[27:28] Speaker 2: She's talking up a reform UK style movement taking route
[27:31] Speaker 2: here in Australia, saying One Nation's rise mirrors what's happening
[27:35] Speaker 2: in Britain. James, what's the strategy off the back of
[27:40] Speaker 2: this trip you were there with Pauline in the US.
[27:43] Speaker 2: Is it about expanding the One Nation brand, building ties
[27:47] Speaker 2: internationally or what's the strategy here.
[27:53] Speaker 8: Well, it's pretty clear that any political party here in
[27:55] Speaker 8: Australia wants to build those trilateral relationships and the UK
[28:00] Speaker 8: and the US are very important to Australia. Not to
[28:03] Speaker 8: mention the fact that Senator Hanson was given a great
[28:06] Speaker 8: opportunity to rub shoulders as well with the President of Argentina, Meala,
[28:11] Speaker 8: President Malay. So that was a great experience, but also
[28:14] Speaker 8: to you know, just meeting other congressmen and women from
[28:18] Speaker 8: the United States, other leaders from across the globe, Conservative
[28:22] Speaker 8: leaders as well that want to see patriotism back in
[28:25] Speaker 8: their country. They want to see the debt paid down.
[28:27] Speaker 8: They want to see unity. That's the big thing. And
[28:29] Speaker 8: you know, there's no greater country that I look at
[28:32] Speaker 8: that is united as one. They serve under one flag,
[28:36] Speaker 8: that's the United States. They've got one anthem that they
[28:38] Speaker 8: haven't had to change for a minority group. And you
[28:42] Speaker 8: know that the pride that I saw in America, and
[28:45] Speaker 8: it's just it's wonderful to see good, strong leaders. Nigel Farage,
[28:49] Speaker 8: a future Prime Minister of England, wanting to rub shoulders
[28:53] Speaker 8: and meet, and you could see from some of the
[28:55] Speaker 8: images and the video that came back from the United
[28:58] Speaker 8: States just the admirae they had for each other.
[29:01] Speaker 1: It's nice.
[29:02] Speaker 8: Alberze wouldn't even meet with Nigel Farage given the fact
[29:05] Speaker 8: that you know, in four years time he is likely,
[29:07] Speaker 8: as the polls are shown now, to be the future leader.
[29:10] Speaker 8: Malay is doing a terrific job there in Argentina, what
[29:14] Speaker 8: has been a socialist, communist country as turning it around.
[29:17] Speaker 8: And all of a sudden, you can see the reports
[29:19] Speaker 8: and I know the IPA are currently there in Argentina
[29:22] Speaker 8: doing stories that I think we're going to see in
[29:24] Speaker 8: the next couple of weeks, I saw Gena Reinhardt there.
[29:27] Speaker 8: You know, when was the last time Anthony Albanesi asked
[29:32] Speaker 8: the most successful business person in this country for a
[29:35] Speaker 8: sit down meeting to find out how he can encourage
[29:38] Speaker 8: her to spend and invest more money in this country. No,
[29:41] Speaker 8: it's Donald Trump, it's Malay, it's all those other world
[29:45] Speaker 8: leaders that are going down a conservative route that are
[29:48] Speaker 8: calling upon our richest people in this country to say, well,
[29:52] Speaker 8: if you can't make money, if you can't get projects
[29:54] Speaker 8: off the ground in Australia, come.
[29:56] Speaker 2: We'll help you.
[29:57] Speaker 8: We'll roll the red carpet out to see you invest
[29:59] Speaker 8: in our country. So it was just a wonderful experience
[30:03] Speaker 8: being able to go over And it's full credit to
[30:05] Speaker 8: Pauline Hanson because I think finally, after thirty years in politics,
[30:09] Speaker 8: there's some recognition that she's on the right path, and
[30:12] Speaker 8: she's been invited by world leaders in some of our
[30:16] Speaker 8: biggest nations, as I say, the UK and US to
[30:19] Speaker 8: go and talk at these conservative events.
[30:21] Speaker 2: Well, the trip certainly has emboldened Pauline Hanson. She's told
[30:25] Speaker 2: journalists the leadership of Susan Lee has been hopeless for
[30:28] Speaker 2: the conservative politics of this nation. No more am I
[30:32] Speaker 2: going to be there as back up for them and
[30:34] Speaker 2: support them, which I have been. One nation can hold government,
[30:38] Speaker 2: whether it's state or eventually in time in the federal arena.
[30:42] Speaker 2: Linda big call or could she do it?
[30:48] Speaker 10: Well?
[30:48] Speaker 11: Look, you know that's a matter for the Australian people.
[30:50] Speaker 11: I do think Senator Hanson has come home with a
[30:53] Speaker 11: fair suitcase of hubris and we'll see how the Australian
[30:57] Speaker 11: people respond to that. In my experience, Australians prefer humble
[31:02] Speaker 11: leaders who actually are realistic.
[31:04] Speaker 12: About their chances of winning government.
[31:06] Speaker 11: But you know, ultimately this is a matter about how
[31:09] Speaker 11: people vote. But I don't think Australians will forget Senator
[31:12] Speaker 11: Hanson's statements about her clear opposition to the beautiful, wonderful
[31:19] Speaker 11: multiculturalism that we embrace in Australia. I don't think Australians
[31:23] Speaker 11: will forget Senator she wants in Parliament.
[31:31] Speaker 12: Yeah.
[31:31] Speaker 11: Well, Australians embrace and love the multiculturalism of this incredible nation.
[31:36] Speaker 11: That's actually done them is not embracing and celebrating then.
[31:41] Speaker 2: In our country culture. We want culture.
[31:43] Speaker 8: We welcome people from all over the world, but don't
[31:46] Speaker 8: bring your problems to this country, come here to be Australian.
[31:50] Speaker 2: That's all we ask of people.
[31:51] Speaker 8: We don't again an issue with people with many follow
[31:54] Speaker 8: us from all over the world, do want to be
[31:57] Speaker 8: Australian and we love them just as much as we
[31:59] Speaker 8: love those people born in here.
[32:03] Speaker 2: Linda.
[32:03] Speaker 12: You can shut over the top of.
[32:05] Speaker 11: Me, James, but I think ultimately Australians will not forget
[32:09] Speaker 11: some of those really pretty remarkable and divisive statements that
[32:14] Speaker 11: Senator Hanson has made over her thirty year course in
[32:18] Speaker 11: political history.
[32:19] Speaker 12: And I think what Australians are looking for right clearly,
[32:22] Speaker 12: it's like.
[32:23] Speaker 11: The prime minister that they voted for, a leader in
[32:26] Speaker 11: out in Albanezi, who's bringing people together, who's the primary votes,
[32:31] Speaker 11: rolling out the promise that he that he took to
[32:35] Speaker 11: the Australian paper. Let's bring cost of living reform and
[32:39] Speaker 11: a range of other support services, improving our health system,
[32:43] Speaker 11: making medications.
[32:44] Speaker 12: She been doing all the things.
[32:45] Speaker 2: Let me jump in there.
[32:46] Speaker 12: That's the kind of reliable governance they want.
[32:48] Speaker 2: Let me jump in there, Linda, because I've got to
[32:50] Speaker 2: get to the ABC. One of their better known presenters,
[32:54] Speaker 2: Patricia Cavellis's Pendent op ed slamming the Liberal Party's net
[32:58] Speaker 2: zero debate. That's what she calls an exercise in self harm.
[33:02] Speaker 2: I probably don't disagree with that, but she's gone on
[33:04] Speaker 2: to call Peter Dutton an authoritarian. Now, leaving aside the
[33:08] Speaker 2: small matter of supposed impartiality from the ABC staff, this
[33:12] Speaker 2: line got my attention. She wrote, the idea seems to
[33:16] Speaker 2: have set in among some that tearing down its first
[33:20] Speaker 2: ever female leader could be a low consequence affair. She
[33:25] Speaker 2: goes on to say that ditching Susan Lee would result
[33:27] Speaker 2: in brand damage for the Liberals because well, Susan Lee
[33:31] Speaker 2: is a woman. So Linda, let me go to you first.
[33:34] Speaker 2: Do you think that if the Liberals Party decided, you
[33:37] Speaker 2: know what, Susan Lee needs to go. We're polling at
[33:40] Speaker 2: twenty four percent, historic low. Her personal approving rating is
[33:45] Speaker 2: minus thirty three percent. We're going to dump Susan Lee
[33:48] Speaker 2: move on to someone else. Do you think they'd suffer
[33:51] Speaker 2: because they've dumped a woman.
[33:55] Speaker 11: Look, it's certainly not my job to give the Liberal
[33:57] Speaker 11: Party advice on what they should do to improve their
[34:00] Speaker 11: brand or indeed they're standing in the eyes of the
[34:03] Speaker 11: Australian public. I think you know, as you yourself pointed
[34:07] Speaker 11: out this evening, it's the opposition's job as a group
[34:12] Speaker 11: to provide a ti of alternative liberal part of the
[34:16] Speaker 11: Liberal patient, and they're not doing that. They're just fighting
[34:18] Speaker 11: amongst themselves. And I'm not sure whether you replace A
[34:22] Speaker 11: with B whoever that might be. My question is going
[34:25] Speaker 11: to improve the situation. My questions got state or territory level,
[34:29] Speaker 11: whether they're at local level, whether they're at federal level.
[34:32] Speaker 11: Their job is to provide a coherent opposition, and all
[34:35] Speaker 11: they seem to be able to do is talk about
[34:36] Speaker 11: themselves in their internal I.
[34:38] Speaker 2: Agree with everything that you've just said, but my point
[34:41] Speaker 2: is not whether or not they should switch leaders. If
[34:43] Speaker 2: they do, do you agree with Patricia Cavallis that it
[34:48] Speaker 2: would be frowned upon because they've removed a woman, the
[34:51] Speaker 2: first ever female leader. Do you think that is a
[34:53] Speaker 2: factor that would affect them if they made that move.
[34:59] Speaker 11: I think what we do know from the evidence collected
[35:02] Speaker 11: on behalf of the views of Australian people is that
[35:05] Speaker 11: a lot of Australian women no longer think that the
[35:09] Speaker 11: Liberal Party represents them, and that has historically not been
[35:13] Speaker 11: the case in Australia, Historically, women in larger proportions have
[35:17] Speaker 11: voted for the Liberal Party, and that has been declining
[35:20] Speaker 11: dramatically over the last couple of elections. Indeed, one of
[35:24] Speaker 11: the primary reasons for the Liberal Party no longer being
[35:27] Speaker 11: able to form government, having lost those thirty three seats
[35:29] Speaker 11: over to elections is the vote of Australian women. So
[35:33] Speaker 11: whatever it is, whether it's their leader, or whether it's
[35:36] Speaker 11: the way that they pre select people, whether it's because
[35:39] Speaker 11: they are unable to create a caucus that actually represents
[35:44] Speaker 11: and looks like modern Australia, proud Australia as we look
[35:49] Speaker 11: and are today, whatever the driver of that is, I
[35:53] Speaker 11: think that is a problem for the Liberal Party.
[35:55] Speaker 12: It's a matter of whether they can solve it or not.
[35:58] Speaker 11: And again, as several of their own MPs have said,
[36:01] Speaker 11: it's an existential problem. It's a problem that genuinely is
[36:05] Speaker 11: threatening the very existence of whether the Liberal and National
[36:08] Speaker 11: Party can continue to form a coalition and continue to
[36:11] Speaker 11: form a majority opposition. They'll go and again beat themselves
[36:16] Speaker 11: up about it in Canberra this week, instead of being
[36:18] Speaker 11: back in their electorates fighting for the people that they
[36:22] Speaker 11: have been elected to represent. That to me is the
[36:24] Speaker 11: most profoundly disappointing thing. Australians need strong, positive representation in
[36:29] Speaker 11: Parliament and they're not getting it from any member of
[36:32] Speaker 11: the Liberal Party this week as they all fly back
[36:34] Speaker 11: to Canberra to fight a month.
[36:35] Speaker 2: The profoundly disappointing thing to me is James. It seems
[36:39] Speaker 2: like Patricia Cavellis from the ABC is starting to set
[36:42] Speaker 2: the agenda already that if Susan Lee is dumped, well
[36:45] Speaker 2: there you go again the Liberal Party. They've dumped the
[36:48] Speaker 2: only female to lead the party. It's the woman problem
[36:51] Speaker 2: all over again. It's like the ABC starting to set
[36:55] Speaker 2: the agenda already.
[37:00] Speaker 8: She's out there early like Christmas decorations. But look, the
[37:04] Speaker 8: issue with Susan Lee is she's either capable or she's not.
[37:07] Speaker 8: That's what it comes down to. It's not about whether
[37:09] Speaker 8: you're a man or woman. You're either fit for the
[37:11] Speaker 8: job or you're not. And sadly, under Susan Lee, the
[37:15] Speaker 8: bold prediction that Pauline Hanson made too Susan's face over
[37:17] Speaker 8: a dinner was you won't survive. And look Christmas, the
[37:22] Speaker 8: party will have a long hard look at itself. I
[37:24] Speaker 8: know they're probably going to take a good hard look.
[37:26] Speaker 8: There's fifty four of them flying down to Canberra for
[37:29] Speaker 8: the meeting tomorrow. They're going to be not only discussing
[37:32] Speaker 8: the net zero plan, but they're going to be talking
[37:34] Speaker 8: about leadership. Tim Wilson already out there jockeying for the
[37:38] Speaker 8: leadership position. Yet he's a bloke that won by one
[37:40] Speaker 8: hundred and seventy five votes. One thing that Australians can
[37:43] Speaker 8: be short of. There are no leadership challenges within one nation.
[37:46] Speaker 8: Nine years of steady leadership and no spills, just thrills
[37:51] Speaker 8: in one nation.
[37:52] Speaker 2: Let's just leave it at that, all right, James and Linda,
[37:55] Speaker 2: good discussion. Appreciate you both, thanks for being on the
[37:57] Speaker 2: program tonight. We're to go to a break when we
[38:00] Speaker 2: come back. Just into Alan promised she'd ban face masks
[38:04] Speaker 2: at protests. Then again, she's promised a lot of things,
[38:07] Speaker 2: hasn't she, And this promise looks like being another dud.
[38:10] Speaker 2: Victorian MP David Limbrick, he's up next to Alan's big
[38:19] Speaker 2: crackdown on masked protesters has gone missing behind a layer
[38:23] Speaker 2: of legalies and labor in fighting. The Victorian premiers once
[38:27] Speaker 2: tough promise to ban face coverings outright has been watered
[38:31] Speaker 2: down to this. Protesters can be masked unless police reasonably
[38:36] Speaker 2: suspect they are committing or about to commit a crime,
[38:39] Speaker 2: in which case police would be enabled to ask them
[38:43] Speaker 2: to remove the mask. Now, if you think that sounds ridiculous,
[38:47] Speaker 2: can I show you a machete bin? Joining me now
[38:49] Speaker 2: is Libertarian senator from Victoria, David Limbrick. David, thanks for
[38:53] Speaker 2: coming on the program. Has just int Alan failed the
[38:56] Speaker 2: Victorian public again with this.
[39:02] Speaker 1: Well, life comes at you fast.
[39:03] Speaker 13: I remember when it wasn't too long ago where you
[39:06] Speaker 13: would get in trouble for not wearing a mask, and
[39:08] Speaker 13: now they want to get people in trouble for wearing.
[39:10] Speaker 2: A mask exactly.
[39:11] Speaker 13: Ultimately, I don't think that, Yeah, I don't think that
[39:14] Speaker 13: masks are the problem here. Making threats to people is
[39:18] Speaker 13: already a crime. Hurting people is already a crime, And
[39:21] Speaker 13: if protesters are intentionally disrupting transport, networks and businesses, then
[39:28] Speaker 13: they should be, you know, stop hurting other people's rights. Ultimately,
[39:31] Speaker 13: what needs to happen here is the police just need
[39:34] Speaker 13: to enforce.
[39:35] Speaker 1: The existing laws.
[39:36] Speaker 13: I think that what the government is proposing here is
[39:39] Speaker 13: going to be just as effective as a machete bin.
[39:41] Speaker 2: Well supposed to. The issue with masks is if people
[39:44] Speaker 2: are throwing missiles or projectiles, for example, they can't be
[39:49] Speaker 2: later identified on CCTV, for instance, and they know that,
[39:53] Speaker 2: which is the reason they wear masks in the first place.
[39:56] Speaker 2: It's not a fashion accessory, and as some have claimed today,
[40:00] Speaker 2: it's not because they have certain religious requirements. People wear
[40:04] Speaker 2: masks for a reason. They don't want to be identified,
[40:07] Speaker 2: and they don't want to be identified because, as we've
[40:10] Speaker 2: seen at so many of these protests, they are engaging
[40:13] Speaker 2: in illegal activity. So the premiere came out real strong,
[40:18] Speaker 2: as she typically does on crime issues, and then victorians
[40:22] Speaker 2: sit and they wait and they count the weeks and
[40:25] Speaker 2: the months going by. Nothing happens, and then finally we
[40:29] Speaker 2: come out with this law that is so watered down
[40:33] Speaker 2: as to be barely different from what we've got already.
[40:38] Speaker 2: I wonder how the Jewish community in Melbourne is feeling
[40:41] Speaker 2: because she made this promise after the attack on the
[40:46] Speaker 2: synagogue there in Melbourne. She promised, We're going to unmask
[40:49] Speaker 2: these protesters. These broken promises just continue, I would think,
[40:56] Speaker 2: to foster distrust in the government. I mean, you just
[40:59] Speaker 2: can't belave a word.
[41:00] Speaker 13: She says, well, I don't mind if she breaks a promise,
[41:05] Speaker 13: if the promise was foolish. The government shouldn't be dictating
[41:09] Speaker 13: the clothes that people wear or the things that they
[41:12] Speaker 13: wear on their face. Really, what's happened here is the
[41:17] Speaker 13: police already have the powers to take mass soft people.
[41:20] Speaker 13: They have this power called designated places. They can designate
[41:23] Speaker 13: an area of the city or any part of the
[41:25] Speaker 13: state that they choose, and then they have powers of search,
[41:29] Speaker 13: powers to take mass soft people, all sorts of powers.
[41:32] Speaker 13: They already have those powers and they use them regularly.
[41:35] Speaker 13: So the idea that the police need more powers is
[41:38] Speaker 13: just silly. It's just another case of the government promising
[41:42] Speaker 13: to do something and when they do something, it turns
[41:44] Speaker 13: out to be ineffective. Actually, I actually think it's good
[41:48] Speaker 13: that they broke this promise and they shouldn't be doing this.
[41:50] Speaker 13: And as I said, it's just as effective as a
[41:52] Speaker 13: machete bin.
[41:54] Speaker 2: Well, certainly what they're going to end up with will
[41:57] Speaker 2: be about as effective. I want to ask you about
[42:00] Speaker 2: the crime stats that have come out today showing offenses
[42:04] Speaker 2: in Victoria are up, but the number of offenders is down,
[42:09] Speaker 2: which is curious to me. Then police come out with
[42:12] Speaker 2: this stat They say five four hundred people behind nearly
[42:17] Speaker 2: half the state's total crime, and a few hundred teenage
[42:21] Speaker 2: repeat offenders are causing chaos night after night. So the
[42:26] Speaker 2: police are telling us it's the same small cohort that
[42:31] Speaker 2: are committing overwhelmingly the crime that is being done throughout
[42:37] Speaker 2: the state. I guess, why do you think Victoria's youth
[42:41] Speaker 2: offenders feel so untouchable right now despite the premier's retrick.
[42:49] Speaker 1: Well, we look.
[42:51] Speaker 13: I know that there's lots of Victorians that feel really
[42:54] Speaker 13: unsafe at the moment. I was at Daniong's show on
[42:56] Speaker 13: the weekend and I was speaking to people and it
[42:59] Speaker 13: was very clear to me that people feel unsafe. I
[43:03] Speaker 13: spoke to a young woman. She wanted to get pepper
[43:05] Speaker 13: spray to protect herself. You know, our party supports the
[43:08] Speaker 13: legalization of pepper spray. But I think one of the
[43:11] Speaker 13: issues here, and I think it's sort of in the
[43:14] Speaker 13: stats that you've just said, is that there's a large
[43:17] Speaker 13: number of crimes being committed by a small number of people.
[43:20] Speaker 13: People are concerned about the judicial system in Victoria. Police
[43:25] Speaker 13: are able to go out and scoop up people that
[43:28] Speaker 13: commit crimes, but if they're just getting let out on
[43:30] Speaker 13: the streets again, that's a big problem. So we need
[43:34] Speaker 13: to fix the bail laws so that people that commit
[43:36] Speaker 13: violent crimes are not allowed back out on the streets.
[43:39] Speaker 13: And in the meantime, we need to enable people so
[43:42] Speaker 13: that they can defend themselves against thugs. By legalizing pepper spray.
[43:46] Speaker 13: The government needs to decide are they on the side
[43:49] Speaker 13: of people that want to fight back against thugs or
[43:52] Speaker 13: are they going to keep protecting the thugs in Victoria.
[43:55] Speaker 2: I don't mind the legalization of pepper spray. What concerns
[43:59] Speaker 2: me though, is that's where we've got to in Victoria.
[44:02] Speaker 2: I mean, there's no suggestion in Sydney where I am,
[44:05] Speaker 2: that we need to legalize pepper spray because people are
[44:08] Speaker 2: afraid for their own safety. But the fact that in
[44:11] Speaker 2: Victoria we've now got people saying this is required, and
[44:15] Speaker 2: we've got political leaders like yourself saying, and I don't
[44:17] Speaker 2: disagree with you, that people would be better off having
[44:20] Speaker 2: it just shows you how bad things have gotten.
[44:25] Speaker 13: Well, I've spoken to a number of people in New
[44:26] Speaker 13: South Wales that would like it. I would add that
[44:29] Speaker 13: Victoria wouldn't be leading the way here. Actually, Northern Territory
[44:33] Speaker 13: is leading the way. They legalize pepper spray as of September.
[44:36] Speaker 13: They have a huge crime problem in Northern Territory and
[44:39] Speaker 13: I think that Victoria should follow suit.
[44:41] Speaker 1: And you know, ultimately it's up if New.
[44:44] Speaker 13: South Wales wants to do it as well, they should
[44:46] Speaker 13: do it as well. But I think that it's an
[44:49] Speaker 13: obvious thing that if people want to feel a bit safer,
[44:53] Speaker 13: especially young women. I know that there's a lot of
[44:55] Speaker 13: young women that are already purchasing pepper spray and carrying it.
[44:58] Speaker 1: Many of them aren't even a where that.
[45:00] Speaker 13: It's a prohibited weapon and they could go to jail
[45:02] Speaker 13: for up to two years for possession. But ultimately these
[45:06] Speaker 13: people are going to get busted by the police for
[45:08] Speaker 13: carrying it, and I don't think that they should get
[45:10] Speaker 13: into trouble. I think that it should be legal for
[45:13] Speaker 13: adults to carry for protection.
[45:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't disagree with you. Others think it's sad
[45:17] Speaker 2: that you've got people wanting pepper spray, You've got local
[45:21] Speaker 2: councils paying for private security, you've got residential estates doing
[45:26] Speaker 2: the same thing. It's not the sort of thing that
[45:29] Speaker 2: you want to see. You want to see laws enforced
[45:33] Speaker 2: and crime under control. When you see Queensland cracking down
[45:37] Speaker 2: with its adult crime, adult time laws and actually seeing
[45:41] Speaker 2: crime drop, do you think that's something that Victoria should follow.
[45:49] Speaker 13: Look, I think that anyone that's committing violent crime needs
[45:54] Speaker 13: to be taken out of society, whether that's through incarceration
[45:58] Speaker 13: or if they're not a citizen, deport But ultimately we
[46:02] Speaker 13: need to make sure that people that are initiating force
[46:06] Speaker 13: and committing violent crimes against other people are taken out
[46:09] Speaker 13: of circulation because you cannot have a free society where
[46:13] Speaker 13: people are free to commit violence against each other. You
[46:17] Speaker 13: can't have a free society and violence at the same time.
[46:21] Speaker 13: So these people that don't respect the rights of other people,
[46:24] Speaker 13: that commit violent crimes need to be taken out of
[46:27] Speaker 13: circulation through incarceration.
[46:29] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[46:30] Speaker 2: Absolutely, Well, we sit and wait for Justin Ellen to
[46:34] Speaker 2: get things under control. David Librick always appreciate you joining me.
[46:38] Speaker 2: We're going to go to a break when we come back.
[46:40] Speaker 2: Kamala Harris reckons she was playing three D chess during
[46:44] Speaker 2: the US presidential campaign. I'm going to be honest, I'm
[46:47] Speaker 2: not sure she could spell three D. Another all time
[46:51] Speaker 2: Kamala Harris word sellent coming up after this. I got
[46:58] Speaker 2: to say, when Donald Trump won the US election, I
[47:01] Speaker 2: was so excited, not necessarily for Trump, just for the
[47:04] Speaker 2: fact I wouldn't have to suffer Kamala Harris prattling on anymore.
[47:08] Speaker 2: There's the cackle, the insufferable word salads. I mean, it
[47:12] Speaker 2: was just horrendous stuff. Alas were not so fortunate. She's
[47:17] Speaker 2: written a book, and her never ending book tour continues.
[47:22] Speaker 2: Here she is boasting about how she wasn't outsmarted by
[47:25] Speaker 2: Donald Trump during the election that she lost.
[47:29] Speaker 11: I was aware of my opponent's strategies and I wasn't
[47:33] Speaker 11: about to fall pre.
[47:37] Speaker 12: Or fall into those traps.
[47:39] Speaker 11: I understood the game that was being played, and I
[47:42] Speaker 11: made a decision that I wasn't going to it played
[47:45] Speaker 11: and done. Yeah, three dimensional chairs, I'm telling you, you.
[47:55] Speaker 2: Know, I would suggest the Kamala Harris chessboard only became
[48:00] Speaker 2: three D after she'd had a few. But seriously, Kamala
[48:04] Speaker 2: Harris playing three dimensional chess, she'd be flat out playing
[48:07] Speaker 2: Connect four. I reckon, And besides, I'm not sure she
[48:11] Speaker 2: could spell three D. Kamala Harris is far too modest
[48:15] Speaker 2: to say it, but she spent a billion dollars in
[48:17] Speaker 2: just three months on her three dimensional chess board and
[48:20] Speaker 2: still got checkmated. I love how she boasts that she
[48:24] Speaker 2: wasn't going to fall for her opponent's strategy. She lost
[48:29] Speaker 2: in all three dimensions, and the book tour, I'm sorry
[48:33] Speaker 2: to say continues, Well, that's all for me. I'll be
[48:36] Speaker 2: back tomorrow night, but stick around. Coming up now is
[48:39] Speaker 2: the Late Debate. Caleb Bond in the middle chair, and
[48:43] Speaker 2: he's back fresh from the Cliff Richard concerts. I can
[48:46] Speaker 2: tell you he's in a very good mood. Here's the
[48:48] Speaker 2: Late Debate.

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