# Paul Murray Live | 17 December

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 17 Dec 2025, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/24448900-a9f1-400e-99ff-b3b600c9d578/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Alleged Bondi gunman facing 59 charges, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese a no-show at Jewish funerals. Plus, the NSW Premier flags gun reforms. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: From the sky in insector. This is Paul Murray life.
[0:06] Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. Remember we are
[0:09] Speaker 2: in a battle. It is the battle of US versus them.
[0:12] Speaker 2: And US is not Christian, it is not Jewish, it
[0:16] Speaker 2: is not non believing. It is not Muslim, it is
[0:18] Speaker 2: not Hindu, it is not.
[0:19] Speaker 1: Sekh Us is Australia.
[0:22] Speaker 2: Us is the Australians who want to live freely and
[0:25] Speaker 2: move with ease and confidence in every part of this
[0:29] Speaker 2: beautiful land. Them are those whose poison seeks to take life,
[0:36] Speaker 2: for whom other people are an example of The US
[0:41] Speaker 2: is to not be stopped, to not be coward. The
[0:45] Speaker 2: US was taking a swim at Bondo Beach today. Many
[0:48] Speaker 2: hundreds of people did so.
[0:50] Speaker 1: At dawn.
[0:51] Speaker 2: Tens of thousands gathered at the Adelaide Oval for the
[0:54] Speaker 2: tradition that we look forward to every four years, and
[0:56] Speaker 2: that is the opportunity to play five tests of cricket
[0:59] Speaker 2: against the old foe, the English. The US today stood
[1:04] Speaker 2: in silence, regardless of race, gender, background, in a recognition
[1:11] Speaker 2: of a mutual future, a future that has been harmed
[1:15] Speaker 2: by what has happened this week, but that will not
[1:18] Speaker 2: bend because US is better than them.
[1:25] Speaker 3: We come together as nations to pay our respects to
[1:28] Speaker 3: all those who lost their lives and offer our condolences
[1:32] Speaker 3: to their families, their friends, and to the Jewish community.
[1:37] Speaker 3: We also acknowledge those who bravely offered assistance to others
[1:41] Speaker 3: at the scene. We now ask those here today and
[1:45] Speaker 3: fans watching around the world, to please stand it I
[1:48] Speaker 3: fable as we pause for a moment's silence.
[2:26] Speaker 2: And while silence was echoed around the world, and the
[2:29] Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands that were watching live on television, the
[2:32] Speaker 2: millions more that will see that in the next few days,
[2:35] Speaker 2: there was no silence.
[2:36] Speaker 1: There just was heartbreak. At the funerals.
[2:39] Speaker 2: The first three have taken place today, Little Matilda's will
[2:44] Speaker 2: be tomorrow. But the Bondai Rabbi was being remembered in
[2:49] Speaker 2: the very temple in which he had helped become a
[2:53] Speaker 2: centerpiece of the suburb that is now known for something
[2:57] Speaker 2: other than love. According to the Jewish tradition, burial happens
[3:02] Speaker 2: within the first couple of days, and to anyone who's
[3:04] Speaker 2: ever lost someone, let alone in trauma, we all know
[3:07] Speaker 2: how hard it is to speak at a funeral. This
[3:10] Speaker 2: was the Rabbi's father in law, speaking just a couple
[3:14] Speaker 2: of days after the rabbi was murdered.
[3:19] Speaker 4: It is unthinkable, Ell we talk about you. It pasts,
[3:32] Speaker 4: and it's unthinkable for me to have something a crowd
[3:37] Speaker 4: and a shool and not to come to him and say, Elisa,
[3:40] Speaker 4: what do you think about Lisa. That's I'll tell you
[3:44] Speaker 4: Ei Ei, love us up to.
[3:55] Speaker 1: There's poor people again.
[3:56] Speaker 2: Strength and love from the ass to all of those
[4:00] Speaker 2: that are affected, and those funerals will continue again tomorrow.
[4:06] Speaker 2: Justice is a process that sometimes can never feel as
[4:09] Speaker 2: satisfying as we want it to be, especially when the
[4:15] Speaker 2: stakes are as high as they have been over the
[4:17] Speaker 2: past few days. You will hear the word allegedly a
[4:22] Speaker 2: lot tonight because we're now in a process where one
[4:24] Speaker 2: of the two people has been charged with what we
[4:30] Speaker 2: have all seen in the past few days. The charges,
[4:33] Speaker 2: no doubt will be added to but after being raised
[4:37] Speaker 2: for Macma not wishing to speak to police, the justice
[4:43] Speaker 2: process has begun. He is from Channel nine. The many
[4:47] Speaker 2: charges that the alleged government will now face.
[4:51] Speaker 5: There are fifty nine counts in total, the first on
[4:54] Speaker 5: the list committing a terrorist act. There are fifteen murder
[4:58] Speaker 5: charges for of causing wounding with intent to murder, another
[5:03] Speaker 5: of displaying a terrorist symbol, placing an explosive nearer building,
[5:08] Speaker 5: and a firearms offense.
[5:12] Speaker 2: In terms of the action, there needs to be confronting
[5:16] Speaker 2: of people like hate preachers. There's some breaking news coming
[5:18] Speaker 2: via the Australian newspaper tonight. The potentially national Cabinet may
[5:22] Speaker 2: be dragged to this. Of course it should have been
[5:24] Speaker 2: one of the earliest responses. As soon as I know
[5:27] Speaker 2: more about that, I'll pass it on. But there's a
[5:30] Speaker 2: conversation that's going to take place now, and it's around guns. Now,
[5:34] Speaker 2: before we start with anything here, can I be very clear.
[5:39] Speaker 2: The reality is is that there are more crimes that
[5:41] Speaker 2: are committed with illegal firearms than legal firearms, and there
[5:46] Speaker 2: are probably way more illegal firearms, and there are legal
[5:49] Speaker 2: firearms in and around New South Wales and the wider country.
[5:54] Speaker 2: I also know about how a firearm is a tool
[5:58] Speaker 2: in Perry urban but deaf in regional areas. But there
[6:02] Speaker 2: are going to be changes to gun laws. The Parliament
[6:05] Speaker 2: in New South Wales will be recalled next week in
[6:07] Speaker 2: the week of Christmas, the expectation being that the Liberal
[6:09] Speaker 2: Party most likely will join with the Labor party. Remember
[6:13] Speaker 2: the leadership of the opposition is Kelly Sloan, who represents
[6:17] Speaker 2: in part the area in and around Bondi. So you'd
[6:21] Speaker 2: imagine there'll be something by partisan here. But there's a
[6:23] Speaker 2: bit more detail I want to get into tonight and
[6:25] Speaker 2: flag a couple of questions before we jump head along into.
[6:29] Speaker 1: All of this.
[6:30] Speaker 2: He was the Premier saying that the action needs to
[6:34] Speaker 2: start well.
[6:35] Speaker 6: Next week we are proposing bill which hasn't been finally drafted,
[6:41] Speaker 6: but we will share with the opposition as soon as possible,
[6:44] Speaker 6: to cap the number of firearms, to reclassify straight pull
[6:48] Speaker 6: up and pump action shotguns, to look at reducing magazine
[6:52] Speaker 6: capacity for shotguns, for prohibiting belt fed magazines in those shotguns,
[7:00] Speaker 6: and crucially removing encat as an appeal mechanism once a
[7:04] Speaker 6: designation has been made about withdrawing a license from the
[7:09] Speaker 6: registered authority.
[7:11] Speaker 2: Now again this is important because it was legal firearms
[7:15] Speaker 2: that were allegedly used in this situation. But there are
[7:23] Speaker 2: again this great gulf between the people who follow the
[7:26] Speaker 2: law who may well end up seeing what they have
[7:30] Speaker 2: invested in. Remember, shooting is an Olympic sport, target shooting
[7:34] Speaker 2: and a lot of high range weapons can be used
[7:37] Speaker 2: for that. Not to mention again the hunting that is
[7:40] Speaker 2: required to make sure that feral species don't ruin what
[7:43] Speaker 2: is there in food producing areas. But it is also
[7:47] Speaker 2: important to note too that, as John Howard said about
[7:49] Speaker 2: a potential distraction here, the reality of those who hate
[7:54] Speaker 2: those around the world who wish to kill people for
[7:56] Speaker 2: whom they are, they will attempt to use anything but
[8:01] Speaker 2: a gun, a point being made by some SHUDOS representatives.
[8:04] Speaker 1: When being interviewed on the ABC.
[8:07] Speaker 7: People have used trucks, they've used cars, they've used explosives,
[8:11] Speaker 7: they've used knives, they've used illegal firearms, they've used legal
[8:15] Speaker 7: firearms in the commission of these terror attacks.
[8:18] Speaker 1: The problem is not the weapon. The problem is the
[8:20] Speaker 1: radicalization of the individual.
[8:22] Speaker 2: Absolutely correct, But it is also reasonable to suggest that
[8:26] Speaker 2: there are too many guns in Australia. In New Subwhals alone.
[8:31] Speaker 2: According to a registry which was released by police, or
[8:33] Speaker 2: I should say re released by police, it's put out
[8:35] Speaker 2: every six months. But this is to the suburb and
[8:39] Speaker 2: to the gun owner an incredible amount of information. There
[8:43] Speaker 2: are fourteen thousand firearms in the post coded area of
[8:47] Speaker 2: Golben in regional New South Wales, there are thirteen thousand
[8:53] Speaker 2: firearms in the postcode of Orange and there are thirteen
[8:56] Speaker 2: thousand in parks overall a million in Greater Sydney. There
[9:01] Speaker 2: are twelve and a half thousand legal guns in Liverpool,
[9:06] Speaker 2: ten thousand in Penrith, three thousand, seven hundred in Marsden
[9:11] Speaker 2: Park and three thousand, nine hundred myapologies other way around
[9:14] Speaker 2: in Picton. And now there is a specific statistic that
[9:20] Speaker 2: we do have to engage with.
[9:21] Speaker 8: Now.
[9:21] Speaker 2: I have tried to spend the day talking to as
[9:23] Speaker 2: many people who are more o fay with shooting, shooting culture,
[9:26] Speaker 2: shooting clubs and farming. So again, I don't want a
[9:30] Speaker 2: situation where the people who are using these for all
[9:33] Speaker 2: of the legitimate reasons see those things taken away in
[9:37] Speaker 2: a knee jerk reaction which is to make non gun
[9:39] Speaker 2: owning people in the cities feel better, and politicians to
[9:43] Speaker 2: make it seem like they are dealing with not just
[9:47] Speaker 2: the weapon but also the ideology that has been pulling
[9:50] Speaker 2: the trigger. There are people that frankly have too many
[9:54] Speaker 2: guns in Australia and according to this registry, I want
[9:57] Speaker 2: you to have a look at a statewide map as
[10:00] Speaker 2: these are an incredible amount of guns which are held
[10:04] Speaker 2: by just one licensed firearm owner.
[10:08] Speaker 1: In each of these locations.
[10:10] Speaker 2: This is a map of regional New South Wales, in fact,
[10:12] Speaker 2: all of New South Wales, I should say Goldwyn one
[10:15] Speaker 2: person's got two hundred ninety eight guns, Malabar and Sydney
[10:18] Speaker 2: two hundred and ninety five guns, Cardiff and Macquarie Hills
[10:24] Speaker 2: two hundred and forty one, punch Bowl two hundred and
[10:26] Speaker 2: twenty six. Yes, someone's got two hundred and twenty one
[10:29] Speaker 2: guns in Terry Hills, and I know that there is
[10:32] Speaker 2: a shooting club not far from But how does somebody
[10:34] Speaker 2: have two hundred and seven guns on the northern beaches
[10:36] Speaker 2: of Sydney mo Long two hundred guns now have been
[10:40] Speaker 2: the Northern Beaches one hundred and ninety eight, Bellingen, one
[10:43] Speaker 2: hundred and ninety six Burwood, Burwood, on the fringes of
[10:47] Speaker 2: the inner West of Sydney one hundred and ninety two guns.
[10:50] Speaker 2: This is ridiculous when you actually have a look at
[10:53] Speaker 2: the Sydney Basin.
[10:55] Speaker 1: The greatest Sydney region.
[10:56] Speaker 2: Here somebody has two hundred and ninety five guns in Malabar,
[11:00] Speaker 2: two hundred and seven in Terry Hills, one hundred and
[11:02] Speaker 2: ninety eight in narrabeen one hundred and thirty one in Marubra.
[11:06] Speaker 2: One person has ninety six guns in Brookvale, ninety five
[11:12] Speaker 2: in Cremorn on the Lower north Shore, the Upper north Shore,
[11:16] Speaker 2: Kolara seventy nine guns, Randwick seventy six, Camaay seventy four
[11:23] Speaker 2: and someone again in a slightly per urban suburb. But
[11:26] Speaker 2: no one, No one in Metropolitan Sydney needs to own
[11:29] Speaker 2: fifty seven guns. Now, I repeat, I completely understand how
[11:38] Speaker 2: these weapons are used as tools, particularly.
[11:40] Speaker 1: In regional areas.
[11:42] Speaker 2: The idea that hundreds of them need to be owned
[11:46] Speaker 2: by one individual in a regional area, well, I need
[11:50] Speaker 2: to please explain here. But the idea that anyone can
[11:54] Speaker 2: own that many guns and live in the Greater Sydney
[11:56] Speaker 2: region without owning or working on property in regional areas
[12:02] Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense. Now, the focus on guns is
[12:07] Speaker 2: important because these numbers show us more than a million
[12:12] Speaker 2: guns in the entire state of New South Wales.
[12:15] Speaker 1: And I know that.
[12:16] Speaker 2: There are a lot of feral pigs. I know there's kangaroos.
[12:19] Speaker 2: I know there's a whole bunch of stuff that needs
[12:21] Speaker 2: to be dealt with but there's no need for a
[12:25] Speaker 2: million guns to do that job. The million guns do
[12:29] Speaker 2: also include collectors, and some may try to tell me
[12:34] Speaker 2: that people with greater connections towards shooting clubs.
[12:37] Speaker 1: And I'm not against shooting clubs.
[12:39] Speaker 2: You've seen me visit shooting clubs in regional areas why
[12:43] Speaker 2: it is an Olympic sport. But show those maps again.
[12:47] Speaker 2: In New South Wales there's a million guns statewide. There
[12:53] Speaker 2: is one person in Goldburn with almost three hundred guns,
[12:59] Speaker 2: and there are people inside the Greater Sydney region with
[13:02] Speaker 2: almost three hundred guns. I look forward to the discussion.
[13:08] Speaker 2: I'm open to learning, but what I learned today honestly
[13:12] Speaker 2: did frighten me. And while he is the leader of
[13:17] Speaker 2: our nation, I do not want to waste too much
[13:19] Speaker 2: breath on the Prime Minister. He has absolutely failed in
[13:22] Speaker 2: this moment. There seems to be some rearguard action, particularly
[13:26] Speaker 2: when it comes to potentially dealing with issues such as
[13:31] Speaker 2: hate preachers. But come on, it's time to tell you
[13:34] Speaker 2: the truth now, which is about how the media management
[13:37] Speaker 2: of this has worked. This Prime Minister wants to avoid
[13:41] Speaker 2: a moment when he is confronted by those who are
[13:44] Speaker 2: angry about what has happened.
[13:48] Speaker 6: Now.
[13:48] Speaker 2: Of course, the Prime Minister is not personally responsible for
[13:51] Speaker 2: what someone is now alleged to have done in a
[13:53] Speaker 2: criminal fashion, but the urgency, the anger, the righteous anger
[13:58] Speaker 2: has all been missing. The opportunities to show he cares
[14:03] Speaker 2: are happening during breakfast TV hours, if his meeting with
[14:07] Speaker 2: Jewish leaders, He's not doing it at synagogues or in
[14:11] Speaker 2: the streets of Bondai. He is doing it comfortably, at
[14:15] Speaker 2: arm's length and in highly controlled environments. When he does
[14:19] Speaker 2: appear in the media, he's doing so with virtually no
[14:23] Speaker 2: notice and as you can see, essentially just telling the
[14:28] Speaker 2: network news to be there, no radio or newspaper reporters
[14:31] Speaker 2: who would otherwise.
[14:32] Speaker 1: Be surrounding him.
[14:35] Speaker 2: And amazingly, while three funerals have taken place today, including
[14:39] Speaker 2: in a very public fashion from a very public man
[14:42] Speaker 2: being the Bondai Rabbi, the first place of worship that
[14:46] Speaker 2: the Prime Minister has attended since the murder of fifteen
[14:51] Speaker 2: of our own citizens is at an ecumenical service at
[14:54] Speaker 2: Saint Mary's Cathedral. Now may be very clear, I do
[14:58] Speaker 2: not hold the Prime Minister personally responsible for obvious reasons.
[15:02] Speaker 2: He is not personally responsible for the criminal actions of others,
[15:06] Speaker 2: but his response to.
[15:07] Speaker 1: It, his lack of rage.
[15:12] Speaker 2: Instead highly managed appearances, is a problem. Now this Prime
[15:20] Speaker 2: Minister will be betting that, with the part of the
[15:23] Speaker 2: country moving their attention towards the sporting events next week,
[15:27] Speaker 2: all of the country starting to turn towards Christmas, the
[15:30] Speaker 2: national break between Christmas and New Year, that the Prime
[15:33] Speaker 2: Minister will assume that the white hot rage of these
[15:36] Speaker 2: days will wane.
[15:39] Speaker 1: I doubt it. Again.
[15:42] Speaker 2: The breaking news tonight via the Australian newspapers that apparently
[15:45] Speaker 2: national Cabinet will be confronted with some issues to do
[15:48] Speaker 2: with hate preachers. I'll have a chat to Sharry Markson
[15:50] Speaker 2: about that in a moment or two time. But I
[15:52] Speaker 2: want to show you a person who did have righteous
[15:54] Speaker 2: anger today, and that of course was Josh Friedenberg. You've
[15:57] Speaker 2: heard about his speech, but how can I not recognize
[15:59] Speaker 2: what he ed as an Australian, forget Jewish Australian, as
[16:02] Speaker 2: an Australian.
[16:03] Speaker 1: Today in Bondi, it's time our Prime Minister.
[16:09] Speaker 9: Accepted accountability for what has happened here. And so, Prime Minister,
[16:13] Speaker 9: until you stand here in front of these cameras and
[16:19] Speaker 9: say that you, you and your government, hand on heart,
[16:25] Speaker 9: accept personal responsibility for what has taken place. Until you
[16:32] Speaker 9: Prime ministers stand here on this spot and accept accountability
[16:37] Speaker 9: for the failure of your government, then everything after that.
[16:45] Speaker 1: Will mean nothing.
[16:48] Speaker 2: Josh Rodenberg was interviewed on the seven thirty Report This
[16:51] Speaker 2: Evening or Sorry, ABC seven thirty. Among other questions, the
[16:56] Speaker 2: final planned question that was asked by the host, Sarah
[16:58] Speaker 2: Ferguson is discre graceful. It is an utter disgrace that
[17:02] Speaker 2: she asked the question. She immediately started to backpedal after
[17:07] Speaker 2: she got this answer.
[17:08] Speaker 1: I'll save you the backpedal.
[17:09] Speaker 2: Can you believe that this was the question asked of
[17:11] Speaker 2: Josh Fredenberg as a prominent Australian forget Jewish Australian, prominent
[17:16] Speaker 2: Australian showing and sharing the rage that millions of us do.
[17:20] Speaker 1: Can you believe this is what he was asked today?
[17:25] Speaker 10: It's widely viewed as inevitable that you will return to politics.
[17:31] Speaker 10: How do we not see this through a political lens?
[17:36] Speaker 10: I mean the case that you're making a personal case
[17:38] Speaker 10: against the Prime minister.
[17:40] Speaker 9: I'm deeply offended by what you just said. I'm deeply offended.
[17:44] Speaker 9: Explain that and you know what, there was a man
[17:47] Speaker 9: called Murray wat who sits on the labor front bed.
[17:50] Speaker 9: He tried to say that about a year ago. And
[17:53] Speaker 9: then labor ministers like Mike Kelly and others hear me
[17:57] Speaker 9: who came out and said exactly what I'm about to say,
[18:01] Speaker 9: which is that is an insult. That is an insult
[18:05] Speaker 9: to say that there's any political motivation in this. No, Sarah,
[18:10] Speaker 9: The reality is this. I'm an Australian who has to
[18:13] Speaker 9: have personal security because my life is endangered in this
[18:18] Speaker 9: country and I was the treasurer of this country. My
[18:21] Speaker 9: children go to a school where there are armed guards outside.
[18:24] Speaker 9: When I visit a Jewish age care center, there are
[18:27] Speaker 9: armed guards outside. When I send my kids to Jewish
[18:30] Speaker 9: sporting clubs, there are police cars out there and police tape.
[18:35] Speaker 9: How should we live with this? Why should we live
[18:40] Speaker 9: with this? So, if I'm not going to speak out,
[18:43] Speaker 9: who is if not now?
[18:45] Speaker 1: When? If not me?
[18:48] Speaker 9: Who The reality is this was an attack on Jewish Australians,
[18:53] Speaker 9: But this is a threat to every Australian.
[18:58] Speaker 10: To be clear, my question was about the framing of
[19:00] Speaker 10: what you are saying. I'm not making assertions. I'm not
[19:03] Speaker 10: copying what anybody.
[19:04] Speaker 9: Else is saying, Saha. And you asked me the question
[19:08] Speaker 9: and I gave you my answer.
[19:10] Speaker 2: It's extraordinary at this moment in time where okay, you
[19:15] Speaker 2: want to solicit an opinion, you want to dig a
[19:17] Speaker 2: little bit more deeper. A very significant part of the
[19:19] Speaker 2: interview was about ascribing of the personal blame to the
[19:22] Speaker 2: Prime Minister. But to end like that, that was the plan.
[19:26] Speaker 2: To end like that is absolutely despicable. Now the media
[19:29] Speaker 2: talking about itself again a distraction. The main game remains
[19:34] Speaker 2: dealing with radical Islam in this country and how we'll
[19:37] Speaker 2: get to that conversation. I wanted to bring in my
[19:40] Speaker 2: colleague Charry Marks and as plan, but we didn't expect
[19:42] Speaker 2: that this would be the topic that we'd be discussing,
[19:45] Speaker 2: which is the questioning of Josh Friedenbergen in such a fashion. Charry,
[19:49] Speaker 2: what an offense to a man who obviously you know
[19:52] Speaker 2: his passion for it. We know it here it's guy
[19:55] Speaker 2: news with his documentary. We've seen his tears and that's
[20:00] Speaker 2: that took place today. But can you believe that that
[20:03] Speaker 2: was the way that that conversation was planned and did end?
[20:08] Speaker 1: On seven thirty tonight, Paul.
[20:12] Speaker 11: I was here with Josh today when he arrived. I
[20:16] Speaker 11: stood with him as he paid his respects, as he
[20:21] Speaker 11: crouched down with the flowers, and he did more than
[20:24] Speaker 11: shed tears. He was so deeply moved, Paul. And then
[20:29] Speaker 11: I watched him deliver that speech. The emotion was palpable
[20:33] Speaker 11: being here for Josh Friedenberg. And no, you couldn't possibly
[20:38] Speaker 11: ask that question of any Jewish Australian. I mean, we
[20:42] Speaker 11: are broken this week. Of course, we're resilient and we
[20:46] Speaker 11: are strong, and there's always hope, but this has to
[20:50] Speaker 11: a large extent broken us. All fifteen innocent Jewish Australians murdered,
[20:59] Speaker 11: gunned down while celebrating Karnaka at Bondai Beach. I feel
[21:03] Speaker 11: like I need to repeat that, because how anyone could
[21:05] Speaker 11: suggest that Josh Fridenberg's speech about this is driven by
[21:09] Speaker 11: politics is offensive. As Josh said, it's absurd because we
[21:14] Speaker 11: had fifteen Jewish Australians, including a little girl and I
[21:18] Speaker 11: spoke to her parents today, killed murdered. Politics has got
[21:23] Speaker 11: nothing to do with this, and especially because the community
[21:26] Speaker 11: has been imploring the federal government and the Prime Minister
[21:30] Speaker 11: specifically to take action this is on his watch. He
[21:34] Speaker 11: is responsible because he's refused to act and so severe
[21:38] Speaker 11: was his lack of leadership earlier this year, Paul, that is,
[21:40] Speaker 11: you know, we organized our our summit at Sky News
[21:43] Speaker 11: because there was no leadership. We couldn't have begged Louder
[21:47] Speaker 11: for this. This has got nothing to do with politics,
[21:50] Speaker 11: and in fact, you hear Fridenburg previously has even praised
[21:55] Speaker 11: the Labor Premier Chris Mins here in New South Wales.
[21:59] Speaker 11: This isn't about as he said, for the most part,
[22:03] Speaker 11: until the Albanezy government, the Jewish community in Australia has
[22:07] Speaker 11: enjoyed bipartisan support, and so many Labor politicians say to
[22:12] Speaker 11: me all the time they can't believe this new leadership
[22:18] Speaker 11: of Alban Eazy, Penny Wog and Tony Burke because it's
[22:22] Speaker 11: unfathomable to them how hostile they've been to our Jewish
[22:25] Speaker 11: community and to Israel.
[22:27] Speaker 2: Well also, I mean, Jesus, isn't it convenient That question
[22:30] Speaker 2: asked of of Josh Frodenberg happens on exactly the same
[22:33] Speaker 2: day that Chris Bowen is starting to do the pushback,
[22:36] Speaker 2: suggesting the Liberal Party is politicizing the event. How incredible
[22:40] Speaker 2: that the convenient decision is to say, and again the
[22:44] Speaker 2: idea that in our national attention span, oh you know,
[22:48] Speaker 2: three days. Ok, we've all said the right things for
[22:51] Speaker 2: three days. But now let's all go back to our
[22:53] Speaker 2: corners garbage. As you have been showing on air and
[22:56] Speaker 2: as I know in your heart, and it has been
[22:59] Speaker 2: extraordinary the insight that because of your closeness and being
[23:03] Speaker 2: of literally this community, not metaphorically this community in the
[23:07] Speaker 2: eastern suburbs of Sydney, the pain that is being lived
[23:14] Speaker 2: accordance to the faith. That means the funerals aren't happening
[23:16] Speaker 2: ten days, two weeks, they're happening within three and four days.
[23:23] Speaker 1: The process is as.
[23:24] Speaker 11: Soon as the bodies are released. It would normally be sooner.
[23:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the point you have to we're seeing.
[23:30] Speaker 11: The forensic evidence they need.
[23:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, we're seeing everything at eleven.
[23:34] Speaker 2: Why wouldn't we because of the tragedy, because of what's
[23:36] Speaker 2: happening here, because of the compounding nature of it. Again,
[23:40] Speaker 2: when you see all of these families, what's the experience
[23:45] Speaker 2: like to be there and to look into their eyes
[23:48] Speaker 2: because a country just feels for them and loves them
[23:51] Speaker 2: and loves them.
[23:55] Speaker 11: It's hard to express that, the tragedy, the heart break,
[24:00] Speaker 11: the trauma. I mean, I'm doing so many interviews on
[24:03] Speaker 11: air every day with the family members of victims, and
[24:08] Speaker 11: I mean, you've seen it on a you can't stop
[24:10] Speaker 11: yourself from breaking down and sobbing. But also, Paul, I'm
[24:13] Speaker 11: speaking to so many people who don't want to go
[24:16] Speaker 11: on camera, understandably because they're worried for their safety. But
[24:20] Speaker 11: it's not just me, because I'm close up to it.
[24:22] Speaker 11: The whole Jewish community feels the same. We have felt
[24:26] Speaker 11: the same for the past two years, but now since
[24:28] Speaker 11: Sunday night, we are all feeling the same. Everyone here.
[24:33] Speaker 11: I mean, there are thousands of people turning up at
[24:35] Speaker 11: six point thirty every night here for the lighting of
[24:37] Speaker 11: the carnaca candles, for the prayers, for the songs, and
[24:41] Speaker 11: you can hear perhaps they're still singing and prayers in
[24:44] Speaker 11: the background now and everyone's hugging each other, everyone's shedding tears, sobbing, crying.
[24:50] Speaker 11: Our lives have changed. Do we have a safe life
[24:54] Speaker 11: here in Australia anymore?
[24:56] Speaker 12: Paul?
[24:56] Speaker 11: No one can guarantee our safety. No one can to
[25:00] Speaker 11: us you will be safe going into a synagogue. Your
[25:04] Speaker 11: children will be safe going to school. How do we
[25:08] Speaker 11: live like this? What future do we have here? We
[25:10] Speaker 11: just had ed Hamalgi, the most popular Jewish chef, has
[25:16] Speaker 11: closed his doors today saying he doesn't feel safe anymore.
[25:21] Speaker 11: He's too big a target. Police were regularly visiting him
[25:24] Speaker 11: because he's experienced such harassment and graffiti and vandalism and
[25:30] Speaker 11: death threats over the past two years. Many of those
[25:32] Speaker 11: incidents have been in the news, others haven't, so for
[25:37] Speaker 11: Chris Bowen to say this, the Liberal Party's politicizing this. No,
[25:42] Speaker 11: Susan Lee was here tonight. She gave an amazing speech,
[25:45] Speaker 11: a very strong, fiery speech. Fire haven't seen from her before.
[25:49] Speaker 11: She's standing with us, she's standing side by side. Multiple
[25:53] Speaker 11: members of Shadow Cabinet have been here in and out
[25:56] Speaker 11: every single day. Why hasn't the Prime Minister visit at
[26:00] Speaker 11: a synagogue? He went to Saint Mary's Cathedral tonight. Why
[26:04] Speaker 11: hasn't he visited a synagogue because he'd be heckled. Well,
[26:07] Speaker 11: he has to put up with that. It doesn't mean
[26:09] Speaker 11: he can't pay his respects at a synagogue. You know
[26:12] Speaker 11: Tony Burke turning up here when I was on your
[26:14] Speaker 11: show the other night under the cover of darkness. He
[26:18] Speaker 11: can't face the Jewish community because they've led us down
[26:21] Speaker 11: so badly.
[26:23] Speaker 2: Well, this is me talking again about it, as we
[26:25] Speaker 2: all do about the Prime Minister now effectively, as I say,
[26:28] Speaker 2: hiding in plain sight. I'll get to this development via
[26:31] Speaker 2: the Australian newspaper at a moment or two time. But
[26:33] Speaker 2: as always love Sharry loved to everyone, this is an
[26:36] Speaker 2: Australian tragedy. And again as thank them, and there's more
[26:39] Speaker 2: of us and we love you, Thank you mate. All right,
[26:42] Speaker 2: Jonathan Lee is at the very service of which the
[26:44] Speaker 2: Prime Minister has attended. It is of course largely a
[26:47] Speaker 2: Catholic service, but at an ecumenical bent to it at
[26:50] Speaker 2: Saint Mary's. But there were some sharp words being said
[26:53] Speaker 2: for a Prime minister who, of the first of the
[26:55] Speaker 2: holy places to attend after this goes to a familiar one,
[27:00] Speaker 2: not one that obviously would be difficult for him to attend.
[27:03] Speaker 1: But too bad. That's the way it works.
[27:05] Speaker 2: I remember at the time in the famous Scott Morrison
[27:07] Speaker 2: appearance for Bushfire Victims, where of course he copped it
[27:10] Speaker 2: and it was such a terrible moment for his Prime ministership.
[27:14] Speaker 2: But I remember a conversation with him on the way
[27:15] Speaker 2: to the event. He knew that was going to happen,
[27:17] Speaker 2: but he turned up anyway. This prime Minister again hiding
[27:20] Speaker 2: in plain sight my view. Jonathan Lee joins us now
[27:23] Speaker 2: from Saint Mary's. Jonathan, tell us about what has happened
[27:27] Speaker 2: and what reception, if anything, the Prime Minister has or
[27:30] Speaker 2: is received.
[27:34] Speaker 13: Well, Good evening to your Paul, and good evening to
[27:35] Speaker 13: those at home. I'll start by saying where we are.
[27:37] Speaker 13: We're at a fair distance from where the Prime Minister was,
[27:39] Speaker 13: so I couldn't tell you what happened when he hopped
[27:41] Speaker 13: out of the car, or walked up the stage, or
[27:43] Speaker 13: got close to the people in the public. We couldn't
[27:45] Speaker 13: say that the Prime Minister was here until he arrived.
[27:47] Speaker 13: I don't have a problem with that. Security is important,
[27:50] Speaker 13: especially considering what's happened in the last week. I should
[27:52] Speaker 13: say I think he spoke more like a prime minister
[27:54] Speaker 13: than I've heard in the last three.
[27:56] Speaker 12: Or four days.
[27:57] Speaker 13: I think Chris Men's has probably been the star when
[27:59] Speaker 13: it comes to labor parties and labor leaders, and the
[28:02] Speaker 13: Prime Minister has looked pallid.
[28:04] Speaker 12: He's struggled and he stammered.
[28:06] Speaker 13: Tonight, when he read his speech, he was certainly more
[28:08] Speaker 13: Prime ministerial. He gave lines of saying, we wrap our
[28:12] Speaker 13: arms around the Jewish community. You are Australian, We're all
[28:14] Speaker 13: Australian and we stand with you. We talked about the
[28:17] Speaker 13: terror incidents and the poison and effect that it was
[28:20] Speaker 13: in society. But it was some of the stinging comments
[28:23] Speaker 13: which came from a Rabbi Elton who followed up the speech.
[28:28] Speaker 12: It was the Prime Minister than Chris Mins.
[28:30] Speaker 13: And then he stood on stage and told some subtle
[28:32] Speaker 13: home truths.
[28:33] Speaker 12: Have listened to a couple of the lines.
[28:36] Speaker 6: Preventing a repetition God for Z of this atrocity will
[28:41] Speaker 6: require wisdom and effort.
[28:43] Speaker 14: There are no simple or easy solutions.
[28:47] Speaker 10: This event can't be blamed on luck'sk.
[28:50] Speaker 2: Control, even though it is always worth examining who can
[28:54] Speaker 2: have access to firearms.
[28:58] Speaker 13: He's very clear message, Paul was the gun reform is
[29:00] Speaker 13: one thing and they don't stand against it.
[29:02] Speaker 12: But this goes much further than gun reform.
[29:04] Speaker 13: This is about anti semitism, it's about violent hate speech.
[29:09] Speaker 12: It's about being targeted and those who seek.
[29:11] Speaker 13: To eradicate them that they can't live in fear, they
[29:13] Speaker 13: can't live in danger, and they've got a rightful place
[29:16] Speaker 13: here in Australia that they have prospered by contributing to
[29:19] Speaker 13: the nation. I think the Prime Minister, at a day
[29:22] Speaker 13: and age we're often speeches are better to run.
[29:24] Speaker 12: Past leaders would have sat.
[29:25] Speaker 13: There bristling somewhat, but it certainly could have been much
[29:28] Speaker 13: more scathing than it was, but it would have hit home.
[29:32] Speaker 1: All right.
[29:32] Speaker 2: Thank you John Ido or appreciate it mate. Your reporting
[29:34] Speaker 2: has been excellent. Please keep it up, very good and
[29:37] Speaker 2: straight eye on these things. I really appreciate it, mate.
[29:39] Speaker 1: Thank you.
[29:40] Speaker 2: Now the breaking news out of the Australian newspaper figured
[29:42] Speaker 2: me we're going to go to glasses here, but the
[29:44] Speaker 2: headline suggests that the National Cabinet we'll be moving against
[29:47] Speaker 2: hate preachers post Bondi as Albanezi focuses on anti Semitism. Now,
[29:53] Speaker 2: obviously this information is apparently coming from sources close to
[29:56] Speaker 2: National Cabinet. Now, whether that is coming from the federal
[29:59] Speaker 2: government or coming from premiers who are being informed about it,
[30:02] Speaker 2: it's important to note here that apparently there is going
[30:05] Speaker 2: to be further action on the Seagull report that we've
[30:09] Speaker 2: discussed before. The exact quote from this article reads a
[30:13] Speaker 2: national cabinet source said that anti velification legislation was all
[30:16] Speaker 2: over the place and across jurisdictions, arguing that strengthening those
[30:20] Speaker 2: laws and making them more uniform would be key in
[30:25] Speaker 2: the coming weeks.
[30:26] Speaker 1: Again, as best as I've.
[30:27] Speaker 2: Been able to glance in all of this, there is
[30:29] Speaker 2: no greater and more concrete information than that source that
[30:33] Speaker 2: has been given to the Australian newspaper that finally, a
[30:36] Speaker 2: few days in what should have of course been the
[30:38] Speaker 2: front loaded response is now coming in as potentially a
[30:42] Speaker 2: response to that community anger about where we've been for
[30:46] Speaker 2: the past few days. Quick break back with more lots
[30:47] Speaker 2: more to discuss, including this that question on the ABC
[30:51] Speaker 2: and guns. Are we in the right place and are
[30:53] Speaker 2: there too many when three hundred guns are owned by
[30:56] Speaker 2: just one person?
[30:57] Speaker 1: Question kind of answers itself.
[30:59] Speaker 2: But that's a live shot for Bondi Morna Sek here
[31:01] Speaker 2: Paul Murray live another special edition.
[31:02] Speaker 1: Tonight on Skoy News. Thanks very much for watching.
[31:10] Speaker 2: As always on a Wednesday night, we try to have
[31:12] Speaker 2: a conversation between Stephen Conroy, the former.
[31:14] Speaker 1: Minister and our dear friend Lucy Zelich.
[31:16] Speaker 2: They are both here, but of course there is only
[31:18] Speaker 2: one topic to discuss, and that is the events of
[31:20] Speaker 2: the past few days.
[31:21] Speaker 1: Both of you.
[31:22] Speaker 2: Hello, I'm sorry these are the circumstances our final conversation
[31:25] Speaker 2: of the year. But let's get to this here, which
[31:27] Speaker 2: is this early stuff that's starting to come out of
[31:30] Speaker 2: potentially some changes when it comes to national cabinet. Stephen, again,
[31:34] Speaker 2: you're only across very briefly what is being reported right now.
[31:38] Speaker 2: It seems to me that this is probably what should
[31:41] Speaker 2: have been the first move rather than the second move,
[31:44] Speaker 2: certainly in terms of guns, with the priority over the
[31:47] Speaker 2: radical preachers. Your thoughts on what you've seen thus far
[31:50] Speaker 2: from Anthony Galloway and the team at the ODS tonight, Lord.
[31:55] Speaker 8: I hope there are one hundred percent right. I hope
[31:57] Speaker 8: that is exactly what happens. This legal report we need
[32:01] Speaker 8: to implement it. But as you know, Paul, I've been
[32:06] Speaker 8: wanting and calling for dealing with the hate preachers, no
[32:13] Speaker 8: matter where they're doing it. It's got to be a
[32:16] Speaker 8: strong message from the leadership of the country, state, federal
[32:20] Speaker 8: to say it is over.
[32:23] Speaker 1: Enough is enough.
[32:24] Speaker 8: You are not allowed to create this environment advocating and
[32:29] Speaker 8: pushing people towards violence. So I really hope this report
[32:34] Speaker 8: is right because I think it is at the core
[32:36] Speaker 8: of what we need to do to redress and deal
[32:39] Speaker 8: with this wave of anti duo, anti Semitic behavior. You know,
[32:46] Speaker 8: I'm shamed that kids have to walk to the school
[32:50] Speaker 8: not in their uniform because they're afraid.
[32:53] Speaker 6: So I.
[32:55] Speaker 1: Hope this is right. Yeah, don't look me too.
[32:58] Speaker 2: And obviously that fear about kids going to school, I mean,
[33:02] Speaker 2: the reality is lucy. That's because in part, not necessarily
[33:06] Speaker 2: in the moment, because their life is a threat, but
[33:08] Speaker 2: because of what's going to be screened at them, what's
[33:09] Speaker 2: going to be yanked from them, what's going to be confronted,
[33:12] Speaker 2: what they're going to be confronted by. Again, I wish
[33:15] Speaker 2: this was the first cap off the rank rather than
[33:18] Speaker 2: the gun stuff gun So it's important we'll get to that.
[33:20] Speaker 2: But the radical Islam, And again, while whatever has happened
[33:24] Speaker 2: between these two people are court's going to work it out,
[33:27] Speaker 2: but I want every single ability of the government to
[33:30] Speaker 2: tear at that concept of radical Islam.
[33:33] Speaker 14: Why has it taken this long? Can I ask that question?
[33:37] Speaker 14: And I think so many people are already asking that
[33:39] Speaker 14: question Jillian Siegel's report, and we've heard this ad nauseum, right,
[33:43] Speaker 14: because we are on the same loop of the same
[33:45] Speaker 14: sort of line of questioning about the fact that this
[33:49] Speaker 14: report has been sitting on the Albaneze government's desk for
[33:51] Speaker 14: close to six months now. Why wasn't this addressed when
[33:55] Speaker 14: it was received, right, Why weren't these recommendations looked at
[33:59] Speaker 14: in it entirety taken seriously and really given good thought
[34:04] Speaker 14: to and put into legislation. You know, Australians don't want
[34:08] Speaker 14: a government that he's reactive. We want a government that's proactive.
[34:12] Speaker 14: We want a government that is leading from the front,
[34:14] Speaker 14: that can recognize and be risk averse in these scenarios.
[34:18] Speaker 14: And they have been crying out about this for over
[34:21] Speaker 14: two and a half years now, and unfortunately it has
[34:23] Speaker 14: fallen what appears as so many in the Jewish community
[34:26] Speaker 14: would be feeling on deaf ears. But this isn't and
[34:29] Speaker 14: I want to make it clear, this isn't something that
[34:30] Speaker 14: just affects the Jewish community. Every Australian. I mean, when
[34:33] Speaker 14: I saw this news break, you know that is a
[34:36] Speaker 14: bridge that I've crossed with my children. I lived in
[34:38] Speaker 14: Bondai for five years. I still have family and friends
[34:40] Speaker 14: out there. I reached out to them immediately to find
[34:42] Speaker 14: out that, you know, to make sure that they are okay.
[34:45] Speaker 14: A good friend of mine has a seven week old baby.
[34:48] Speaker 14: She was actually due to go and walk across that bridge,
[34:50] Speaker 14: but was held back by ten minutes, thankfully because of
[34:54] Speaker 14: divine intervention. And that's a route that she takes every
[34:57] Speaker 14: night with her newborn. So this was just earth shattering
[35:00] Speaker 14: and it affects everybody because we are all Australians in
[35:04] Speaker 14: this country.
[35:05] Speaker 2: Well, it's a thing. We've been talking about it, and
[35:07] Speaker 2: you very kindly. We're talking about things before the show,
[35:10] Speaker 2: and it did sharp in my mind about the US
[35:12] Speaker 2: versus them, and that's the reality. Government is about us,
[35:15] Speaker 2: not about them. Media must be about us, not about them,
[35:18] Speaker 2: the commentariat about all this.
[35:20] Speaker 1: It must be about us, not lost.
[35:23] Speaker 14: Well, it has become us versus them, and it's become
[35:25] Speaker 14: you know. I saw there was an advert earlier tonight
[35:28] Speaker 14: where and I'm sure that it's been something that has
[35:29] Speaker 14: done with goodwill and good intentions behind it. But about
[35:33] Speaker 14: enough with racism and no to anti semitism and no
[35:36] Speaker 14: to Islamophobia and all of these kind of buzzwords that
[35:38] Speaker 14: we keep hearing. All of it sounds lovely, but what
[35:41] Speaker 14: are we actually doing and what mechanisms and legislation are
[35:44] Speaker 14: we putting in place to make sure that we can
[35:47] Speaker 14: try and put a stop to this, because we're never
[35:49] Speaker 14: going to eradicate it, Let's be clear. For as much
[35:51] Speaker 14: as we would love to be able to do that,
[35:53] Speaker 14: we can't put an end to it. But I'm tired
[35:55] Speaker 14: of being called xenophobic and whatever type of phobic, because
[35:58] Speaker 14: let me tell you something, I am damn well terrified,
[36:02] Speaker 14: Paul of cultures that want to subjugate women about I'm
[36:05] Speaker 14: terrified of politicians who stand up in parliament and who
[36:08] Speaker 14: suggest that we should defend items of clothing like burkers,
[36:11] Speaker 14: as though they are somehow a symbol of freedom. I'm
[36:14] Speaker 14: terrified of cultures that believe in eradicating others based on
[36:17] Speaker 14: their religions and their faiths, or their particular sexes. I'm
[36:21] Speaker 14: terrified of cultures that view women as second class citizens,
[36:25] Speaker 14: or that children, young girls should be married off underage.
[36:29] Speaker 14: I am terrified of all of these cultures. But guess
[36:31] Speaker 14: what these practices are occurring in our country. And if
[36:34] Speaker 14: you don't think that that aligns with Australian values, then
[36:37] Speaker 14: by god we need to do something about this.
[36:40] Speaker 2: No, I agree completely right, and this is this conversation
[36:43] Speaker 2: where and this is where I say at the start right,
[36:45] Speaker 2: it is not to be cute and equivocating and soft, right,
[36:48] Speaker 2: but it is about that thing about good and decent
[36:50] Speaker 2: verses again, this radicalized and basardized version of a faith
[36:55] Speaker 2: and what that has led to as a potential justification
[36:58] Speaker 2: of things. No matter what yes people want to say, Stephen,
[37:02] Speaker 2: I want to get to the criticism of the Prime
[37:04] Speaker 2: Minister here, Josh Fredenberg for every reason, passionate Australian. Yes,
[37:08] Speaker 2: members of the Jewish community, but passionate Australian has every
[37:11] Speaker 2: right to say whatever he wants. What about the despicable
[37:14] Speaker 2: question and do you consider it to be such that
[37:16] Speaker 2: he was asked tonight on seven point thirty Let's roll
[37:19] Speaker 2: the tape again for those he need to see it
[37:21] Speaker 2: again or may well have missed it because you're joining
[37:23] Speaker 2: us halfway through.
[37:24] Speaker 10: It's widely viewed as inevitable that you will return to politics.
[37:30] Speaker 10: How do we not see this through a political lens?
[37:35] Speaker 10: I mean the case that you're making a personal case
[37:37] Speaker 10: against the Prime Minister.
[37:39] Speaker 9: I'm deeply offended by what you just said. I'm deeply offended, Stephen.
[37:45] Speaker 1: Too far.
[37:48] Speaker 8: Yeah, look, I think it's a disgrace. I know Josh well,
[37:52] Speaker 8: I'm known for a long time. He's not going to
[37:54] Speaker 8: win or lose the seat of cou Young if he
[37:56] Speaker 8: nominates there. On the basis of this is he is
[38:00] Speaker 8: speaking from his heart. He has been speaking on this
[38:04] Speaker 8: consistently for the last two years. This is not some
[38:08] Speaker 8: jumped up trick to make yourself popular to win a
[38:11] Speaker 8: seat in Parliament. Josh is deeply committed, has been and
[38:15] Speaker 8: always has been on wanting to ensure the protection of
[38:20] Speaker 8: the Jewish humunity in Australia. So yeah, I think it's
[38:23] Speaker 8: way too far. And I was quite shocked when I
[38:28] Speaker 8: saw it.
[38:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Lucy, you know what it's like to
[38:32] Speaker 2: be sitting on this side of the camera and working out, okay,
[38:34] Speaker 2: how to and what where the idea That this even
[38:38] Speaker 2: got off the whiteboard when they were planning that meeting,
[38:41] Speaker 2: planning that interview.
[38:42] Speaker 1: That's despicable, of.
[38:43] Speaker 14: Course it is, But you know what, it's just showing
[38:46] Speaker 14: their true character and their true colors that they have
[38:48] Speaker 14: displayed ever since October the seventh. Right, you had the
[38:51] Speaker 14: daughter of a man who had been shot openly saying
[38:55] Speaker 14: it to them on camera. She said, Victoria, she said,
[38:58] Speaker 14: I'm an aussy. But when the ABC going to stop
[39:01] Speaker 14: with their bias? When are you going to specifically stop
[39:04] Speaker 14: with this and to try and politicize this. This is
[39:06] Speaker 14: a man of Jewish faith, right, so if he doesn't
[39:10] Speaker 14: have the ability to speak passionately on this and to
[39:12] Speaker 14: speak from the heart on this issue, then who does
[39:15] Speaker 14: I mean, It's just it's crazy to me that we
[39:18] Speaker 14: lose all humanity when it comes to this and that
[39:20] Speaker 14: this becomes so politicized. He is a politician, we all
[39:24] Speaker 14: know that, but he's also a man of Jewish faith,
[39:26] Speaker 14: and so that he can't speak on this issue now
[39:28] Speaker 14: all of a sudden that it's.
[39:29] Speaker 1: But they're also this idea that.
[39:33] Speaker 2: Again there will be people now who will this is
[39:35] Speaker 2: where their passions are going to go. Main game, right,
[39:38] Speaker 2: main game is about what happened, about how to prevent,
[39:42] Speaker 2: about how to deal with again, As Josh Frodenberg had said,
[39:46] Speaker 2: the ideologies behind things, that's the focus here all right.
[39:49] Speaker 2: In a moment a reminder about why we are focused
[39:51] Speaker 2: the way that we are. Thank you, Lucy, Thank you
[39:52] Speaker 2: very much.
[39:53] Speaker 1: To Stephen.
[39:53] Speaker 2: I'll see you again next year. All right, quick break
[39:56] Speaker 2: back with more again a reminder about the chaos of
[39:58] Speaker 2: where we were, not a week ago, three days ago.
[40:02] Speaker 2: It's only Wednesday night. This happened on Sunday morning. Second,
[40:12] Speaker 2: as the days roll on, we get more perspectives about
[40:14] Speaker 2: just how wild the scene was in and around Bondai.
[40:18] Speaker 2: The Bondai Pavilion, which of course has now become the
[40:20] Speaker 2: focus of the vigil and the flowers well, is also
[40:25] Speaker 2: a place that you can rent as a venue, a
[40:28] Speaker 2: beautiful venue, one of the great venues in Sydney. Sarah
[40:32] Speaker 2: Vanunu was there to celebrate the bar mitzvah of her son.
[40:38] Speaker 2: She joins us on set. Now, Sarah, before it went crazy?
[40:44] Speaker 2: How beautiful was Sunday?
[40:47] Speaker 15: Absolutely beautiful. After a few days of rain and crappy weather,
[40:52] Speaker 15: we had amazing weather, beautiful skies. We had about two
[40:56] Speaker 15: hundred people there. People arrived at and by six twenty
[41:02] Speaker 15: six point thirty we were dancing. All the children were dancing,
[41:06] Speaker 15: raising my son on the chair, doing traditional Hebrew dancers
[41:10] Speaker 15: and Jewish dancers. We had the Israeli flag about Mitzvas,
[41:14] Speaker 15: a celebration of a child becoming you into Jewish man,
[41:19] Speaker 15: and no sooner had we begun the dancing, maybe twenty
[41:22] Speaker 15: minutes fifteen minutes into it, the gunshot started.
[41:26] Speaker 2: It still beautiful, boy there video from the not I
[41:31] Speaker 2: just want to show everyone about the chaos and obviously
[41:35] Speaker 2: the emotion. Nobody's going to see on camera here, but
[41:36] Speaker 2: we're all going to feel exactly what this is like.
[41:40] Speaker 1: I'll show everyone and then.
[41:41] Speaker 2: Ask about a few days later, your reflections on the
[41:44] Speaker 2: emotion of this particular moment when, of course the chaos begins. Sir,
[42:23] Speaker 2: the reason for the blurred footage is because that's kids.
[42:26] Speaker 2: That's all of those kids that are around that the
[42:29] Speaker 2: immediate fear would be obvious. Tell us about the minutes after.
[42:35] Speaker 15: Within the first few seconds of people running past those
[42:39] Speaker 15: glass stores, some of them were screaming, run for your life,
[42:43] Speaker 15: run around, there's there's a shooter here. Some of the
[42:45] Speaker 15: kids got taken in the stampede and just followed the
[42:48] Speaker 15: adults and ran. They fled, they bolted, and then some
[42:52] Speaker 15: people came in screaming saying get back and move away
[42:55] Speaker 15: from the glass windows moved back back back. The panic
[42:59] Speaker 15: on people's faces was something quite horrific. I'm an israel emissary.
[43:05] Speaker 15: I've come from Israel post October seven, and I've had
[43:08] Speaker 15: my fair share of being in safe rooms and bomb
[43:11] Speaker 15: shelters and running from rockets and trying to keep children
[43:13] Speaker 15: calm around me. But this was on a different scale.
[43:17] Speaker 15: These gunshots. We heard it. It was very close. We
[43:20] Speaker 15: were fifty meters away and we had about two hundred
[43:23] Speaker 15: people in the room, half of whom were children, twelve
[43:26] Speaker 15: year olds, and it was their very first encounter with terror.
[43:30] Speaker 2: Because this is it in Australia. We are not used
[43:33] Speaker 2: to the bomb shelters. We are yes, used to visible
[43:36] Speaker 2: security and a concern about it. But what to do
[43:40] Speaker 2: when something happens and no warning, no sirens, nothing, You're
[43:45] Speaker 2: dealing with it in the moment.
[43:48] Speaker 1: How proud are you about how those kids did deal
[43:51] Speaker 1: with it?
[43:51] Speaker 15: Though the children were incredibly brave, some of them were
[43:54] Speaker 15: having a harder time than others. Some of them were hyperventilating,
[43:58] Speaker 15: a lot of crying, a lot of screaming. We had
[44:01] Speaker 15: to close the doors so there was no air, no
[44:04] Speaker 15: air conditioning, and it was what thirty degrees. Twenty eight
[44:07] Speaker 15: degrees was amazing weather, but not when the doors are
[44:10] Speaker 15: closed and there's no windows and no air. Thankfully, we
[44:14] Speaker 15: had drinks, food so we could keep people refreshed. And
[44:18] Speaker 15: we were in a state of lockdown and panic and
[44:22] Speaker 15: not knowing what happened to the kids that ran outside.
[44:25] Speaker 15: Because we were dancing at the time, many children left
[44:28] Speaker 15: their phones behind and they just ran, so there was
[44:30] Speaker 15: no way of contacting them, and not knowing where they were,
[44:34] Speaker 15: who they were, with how many gunmen were outside. It
[44:38] Speaker 15: was horrifying. We also let in many people who fled
[44:43] Speaker 15: from the beach.
[44:44] Speaker 2: I was going to say, you can see again that
[44:46] Speaker 2: the place of this became which was also one of refuge.
[44:49] Speaker 15: The Bondai Pavilion became the point of refuge, the shelter
[44:53] Speaker 15: for Bondai Beach. And the look on their face that
[44:56] Speaker 15: the people that came in, some of them, you know,
[44:58] Speaker 15: without their shirts on. Some with one man I distinctly
[45:03] Speaker 15: recall had a kid on each arm. He was separated
[45:06] Speaker 15: from his wife who ran in a different direction with
[45:08] Speaker 15: the third kid, and he only had his no keys,
[45:11] Speaker 15: no phone, nothing on him, barefoot. We had a family
[45:15] Speaker 15: of Muslims with hinjabs that ran in and we offered
[45:19] Speaker 15: them for Lafel Pormo was Peter, you know, something that
[45:22] Speaker 15: was familiar, and in that moment we had our shared
[45:25] Speaker 15: humanity that we were all fearful for our lives.
[45:28] Speaker 2: I hope you don't mind, but Sarah, as we were
[45:30] Speaker 2: about to come on the air, this is not the
[45:32] Speaker 2: first time that this particular event, the boy becoming a man,
[45:38] Speaker 2: has been shrouded in terror.
[45:41] Speaker 1: For your family.
[45:42] Speaker 15: The iron is not lost on me that I have
[45:45] Speaker 15: come from Israel to Sydney and have experienced a terrorist
[45:49] Speaker 15: attack here in a place where I was actually born,
[45:52] Speaker 15: my hometown, and three years ago when we celebrated my
[45:56] Speaker 15: eldest sons bar Mitzvah in Israel on that night in
[46:00] Speaker 15: Tel Aviv, there was a terrorist attack and I never
[46:04] Speaker 15: would have thought fast forward three years later my second
[46:07] Speaker 15: son would have a terrorist attack on his Balmetzvah. I
[46:10] Speaker 15: mean to be Jewish today to celebrate a rite of
[46:13] Speaker 15: passage that has been celebrated for thousands of years in
[46:17] Speaker 15: a country that's a Western, liberal democratic country where people
[46:23] Speaker 15: should be free to celebrate, you know, first night of Hanukkah,
[46:28] Speaker 15: just like they do with the Easter to show for
[46:29] Speaker 15: Easter or Christmas in the domain, celebrate a holiday of joy.
[46:34] Speaker 15: It's a holiday of miracles, of light, of celebration, or
[46:38] Speaker 15: to celebrate a party with your friends when you turn thirteen.
[46:41] Speaker 15: It's shocking that this has happened.
[46:44] Speaker 4: It's horrific.
[46:45] Speaker 2: Well, thank you for sharing us that video of that moment.
[46:49] Speaker 2: I'm sorry that it has happened. And as your daughter
[46:53] Speaker 2: becomes a woman, go to Disneyland, as you've said for
[46:57] Speaker 2: four all right, thank you so.
[46:58] Speaker 1: Much, Sarah, appreciate the conversation.
[46:59] Speaker 2: Really all right, pleay more to talk about here on
[47:02] Speaker 2: Paul Marie Live, including a very special moment from the
[47:04] Speaker 2: Cricket Today. I want to show you in full, John
[47:06] Speaker 2: Williamson singing a song which all of us love and
[47:09] Speaker 2: means even more us them honestly, Thanks sir, Thanks.
[47:17] Speaker 1: Blake.
[47:17] Speaker 2: Debate is next, and there's only one way to end tonight.
[47:19] Speaker 2: John Williamson at the Cricket singing a beautiful.
[47:22] Speaker 12: Song, true blue.
[47:28] Speaker 9: Me?
[47:33] Speaker 16: Is it mine?
[47:37] Speaker 1: Is it a carpenter? Hear U stand and by your man.
[47:46] Speaker 12: Will see there.
[47:47] Speaker 1: On mine.
[47:51] Speaker 16: We'll shave it true. I'm asking, isn't me? Is it mom?
[48:18] Speaker 1: Is it a car?
[48:23] Speaker 12: It is starre and my.
[48:28] Speaker 1: Where can I my?
[48:32] Speaker 12: I will head any wrong, true
[48:42] Speaker 8: Tr

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