# Paul Murray Live | 3 December

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 3 Dec 2025, 50 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/87fc839c-0eaa-409a-96f4-b3a800ba5c44/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Future Fund bosses blasted over a business-class “research trip” that somehow included Disneyland, Anika Wells racks up a $100k taxpayer-funded three-day dash to New York. Plus, a Senate inquiry backs the FOI bill despite pushbacks. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: From the Skyinging Center. This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you, Sharry.
[0:07] Speaker 1: Excellent story, excellent reporting. We'll discuss it a little later
[0:10] Speaker 1: in this show. Welcome to the man Cave. Lots to
[0:12] Speaker 1: get to tonight, including the Minister for Freebies, the one
[0:16] Speaker 1: who has got so many freebies she's got tickets on herself,
[0:19] Speaker 1: the one who thinks one day she'll be Prime minister,
[0:21] Speaker 1: the one who many in the media think could end
[0:22] Speaker 1: up being Prime minister. Well, not a great day for her. Yes,
[0:26] Speaker 1: they're about to make their big changes on social media,
[0:28] Speaker 1: but surprise, surprise, the Minister for Freebies has been caught
[0:32] Speaker 1: red handed. Discussions in and around immigration. The review into
[0:38] Speaker 1: how and where the Liberals lost the election focuses in
[0:42] Speaker 1: on this issue. Well debated about whether there is a
[0:45] Speaker 1: way to have the conversation without losing the votes. Why
[0:48] Speaker 1: because many of the seats that they used to guarantee
[0:51] Speaker 1: to be liberal are now well and truly labor Why
[0:54] Speaker 1: because of the choices that have made Big Australia what
[0:57] Speaker 1: it is today. And can you believe this? Of course,
[1:00] Speaker 1: So the end of the month, it's the end of
[1:01] Speaker 1: the first twenty five years of a new century. Accord
[1:05] Speaker 1: to the way through the twenty first century. Quentin Tarantino
[1:07] Speaker 1: was among others who are starting to say these are
[1:10] Speaker 1: the insert best things of the past twenty five years.
[1:14] Speaker 1: His take on the best films of the past twenty
[1:18] Speaker 1: five years agree with some very much, disagree with others.
[1:21] Speaker 1: We will get to all of that a little bit later.
[1:22] Speaker 1: And ken you know what you think. At any time
[1:24] Speaker 1: during the show, you send an email Politskyews dot com
[1:27] Speaker 1: dot AU. Now I know that a couple of other
[1:31] Speaker 1: people have mentioned this, but this is the territory we
[1:33] Speaker 1: traffic in many a night, and that is other people's money,
[1:37] Speaker 1: how they spend your money. And yet again there is
[1:40] Speaker 1: a huge amount worth talking about that we are learning
[1:43] Speaker 1: about via the Senate estimates process. Talk about a deal
[1:48] Speaker 1: that stinks to high heaven. You see, the entitlement that
[1:52] Speaker 1: politicians get is also extended to many of the high,
[1:57] Speaker 1: upper ranking members of the public service. So for all
[1:59] Speaker 1: of conversation rightly so about how much money was you
[2:02] Speaker 1: did you spend on this flight? Travel wroughts all the
[2:04] Speaker 1: rest of it, Well, some of this is given a
[2:07] Speaker 1: free pass again at the upper echelons, where remember that
[2:11] Speaker 1: bureaucrats are paid more than the ministers who are theoretically
[2:15] Speaker 1: in charge of them. And at times they are paid
[2:18] Speaker 1: even more twice as much in some departments than the
[2:21] Speaker 1: actual Prime Minister. Now a perfect example the Future Fund.
[2:25] Speaker 1: It exists to be essentially the people who manage the
[2:29] Speaker 1: superannuation and the pot of billions of superannuation of Australian
[2:34] Speaker 1: public servants. And what about what we learn in the
[2:38] Speaker 1: past twenty four hours about the Future Fund's chief executive
[2:42] Speaker 1: and some of the questions to answer. And he's been
[2:45] Speaker 1: around the Future Fund for some time, but he had
[2:47] Speaker 1: a rocky time at centate estimates thanks to David Pocock.
[2:51] Speaker 1: Can you believe this Future Fund chief Executive sent his
[2:56] Speaker 1: executive assistant on at least two business class trips over
[3:00] Speaker 1: including one to inspect hotel rooms for the executives at
[3:07] Speaker 1: the Future Fund. While the CEO of the Future Fund,
[3:11] Speaker 1: who remember is significant because of the job that he
[3:14] Speaker 1: has kind of working for the Australian government, while he
[3:17] Speaker 1: was attending the exclusive members only Club thirty three at Disneyland,
[3:22] Speaker 1: I mean literally Disneyland. We have a story. Disney's Exclusive
[3:28] Speaker 1: Club thirty three was founded in nineteen sixty seven, a
[3:31] Speaker 1: membership is by invitation only, so I think this is
[3:35] Speaker 1: like the Chairman's Lounge of Disneyland. If invited to join
[3:41] Speaker 1: the club, prospective members have to pay thirty five thousand
[3:45] Speaker 1: dollars American fifty three thousand dollars upfront, and then an
[3:50] Speaker 1: annual fee of about fifteen thousand American dollars. Now, this
[3:54] Speaker 1: is the bit that really is weird. There are questions
[3:59] Speaker 1: about who actually paid this membership. I'll take it on notice.
[4:04] Speaker 1: I'll go back to a little bit later. But what
[4:05] Speaker 1: about this The bloke said that he wanted the Exclusive
[4:09] Speaker 1: Disney Club when he went to the Exclusive Disney Club
[4:12] Speaker 1: to learn about the entertainment giants' training programs. Pull the
[4:17] Speaker 1: other one who plays jingles. Really now, again, Disney is
[4:22] Speaker 1: one of the great companies of the Western world. Its
[4:27] Speaker 1: business is entertainment. Hospitality is part of what it does.
[4:32] Speaker 1: But how the bloke is in charge of in part
[4:34] Speaker 1: managing the superannuation fund of Australian public servants or money that,
[4:39] Speaker 1: of course is generated by you, the Australian tax payer.
[4:43] Speaker 1: This one seems a little weird. Here's some of the
[4:45] Speaker 1: back and forth from Senate estimates. Remember this is all
[4:49] Speaker 1: okay under the rules, but of course many a politician
[4:53] Speaker 1: or they lose their gig over a pub test. This
[4:55] Speaker 1: would fail any bar anywhere in the country.
[5:00] Speaker 2: And one of one of the trips we did when
[5:02] Speaker 2: we were looking at setting up a learning academy for
[5:06] Speaker 2: the future FUM the Future Farm Academy, which takes es culture.
[5:11] Speaker 2: One of the peer groups that we identified in the
[5:14] Speaker 2: study was Disney in the Disney University, because they do
[5:18] Speaker 2: cultural induction for their teams in a way that seems
[5:21] Speaker 2: quite effective, and so we organized for some meetings with
[5:27] Speaker 2: a person who was involved in that activity and.
[5:32] Speaker 1: Had a tour of.
[5:33] Speaker 2: The facility, which included lunch at the location that you're
[5:40] Speaker 2: referring to.
[5:42] Speaker 1: Oh wow, we're gonna play that grab again. Did he
[5:47] Speaker 1: just use the term Disney University? Now I know McDonald's
[5:52] Speaker 1: has Hamburger University, but seriously, the Australian Senate is able
[6:00] Speaker 1: to drill down on a public servant who had to
[6:04] Speaker 1: go and see for himself with his own eyes, but
[6:06] Speaker 1: sent the EA first, the EA first to go and
[6:11] Speaker 1: check out the facilities. Have a listen to sort of
[6:15] Speaker 1: Canberra speak at its weirdest.
[6:19] Speaker 2: On one of one of the trips we did when
[6:22] Speaker 2: we were looking at setting up a learning academy for
[6:25] Speaker 2: the Future FUM, the Future Fun Academy, which takes us culture.
[6:30] Speaker 2: One of the peer groups that we identified in the
[6:34] Speaker 2: study was Disney in the Disney University, because they do
[6:37] Speaker 2: cultural induction for their teams in a way that seems
[6:41] Speaker 2: quite effective. And so we organized for some meetings with
[6:46] Speaker 2: a person who was involved in that activity and.
[6:52] Speaker 1: Had a tour of.
[6:53] Speaker 2: The facility, which included lunch at the location that he
[6:59] Speaker 2: would refer to.
[7:01] Speaker 1: Wow. What about again, the Future Fund Academy. This is
[7:08] Speaker 1: when I talk about that triangle of dependence right now,
[7:10] Speaker 1: just talk about constantly just government growing and government going
[7:14] Speaker 1: and government growing. The idea that the Future Fund has
[7:17] Speaker 1: to be looking after its culture, needs to set up
[7:19] Speaker 1: the Future Fund Academy. How does this produce a return
[7:23] Speaker 1: on the investment? How does this produce anything other than
[7:27] Speaker 1: a better experience for the people who already work for
[7:30] Speaker 1: the public service. Now, one of the reasons Google is
[7:34] Speaker 1: apparently a great place to work is because Google decides
[7:37] Speaker 1: that they're going to offer a five star buffet for lunch,
[7:40] Speaker 1: or they're going to let you play football in the
[7:42] Speaker 1: middle of a meeting. But that's a private company. This
[7:46] Speaker 1: is effectively a tax payer funded organization. David Pocock was
[7:51] Speaker 1: the one who was asking the questions and getting this
[7:53] Speaker 1: bloke to squirm. Here he is driving the point home
[7:56] Speaker 1: about how these people are just taking the piece every day.
[8:00] Speaker 3: Does the Future Fund really need someone to go ahead
[8:03] Speaker 3: and check out hotels? Or what?
[8:04] Speaker 1: Was she checking the firmness of beds or confidence is?
[8:08] Speaker 3: Like, I'm serious, it seems like it's bordering on like
[8:12] Speaker 3: if you ask the average puntry out there whether the
[8:15] Speaker 3: Future Fund needed to send someone I assume business class,
[8:18] Speaker 3: business class, yeah, to go and check out some hotels,
[8:21] Speaker 3: they'd probably say yeah.
[8:22] Speaker 1: No, oh business glass of course, mate. I mean, was
[8:27] Speaker 1: there any other way? Remember we're not too mad that CEO.
[8:32] Speaker 1: We are talking about the executive who was sent unbelievable,
[8:39] Speaker 1: his executive assistant. All right, his executive assistant. Look, you know, okay,
[8:43] Speaker 1: the idea that you get to go taxpayer funded expense
[8:47] Speaker 1: and you have to see the rooms. But what the
[8:49] Speaker 1: internet doesn't exist? Again, I just love all of this. Now,
[8:54] Speaker 1: I won't tell you too many secrets about how our
[8:56] Speaker 1: world works, but occasionally, every now and then, when we
[9:00] Speaker 1: want to have a look at a place that we're
[9:02] Speaker 1: going to go and do in our town at we'll
[9:04] Speaker 1: do it online. We'll have a look at a couple
[9:07] Speaker 1: of the photos over fair decum, unbelievable. Oh, just business class,
[9:14] Speaker 1: no question, no question, it's business class. I mean again,
[9:20] Speaker 1: if I've ever been lucky enough to get up there,
[9:22] Speaker 1: it's great. Of course, it's enjoyable. But every now and then,
[9:27] Speaker 1: perhaps not everyone every time, which brings me to the
[9:32] Speaker 1: one who thinks she will be prime minister one day,
[9:34] Speaker 1: the perfect example of the modern politician, the person who's
[9:39] Speaker 1: breaking norms and taking names, the person who knows the
[9:43] Speaker 1: misogyny speech by Julia Gillard like it was the Lord's prayer.
[9:51] Speaker 1: And she's you know, powerful pants suiting and I'm the future.
[9:56] Speaker 1: And depending on who you believe, she certainly has a
[9:59] Speaker 1: belie that she has a massive political future in front
[10:02] Speaker 1: of her. And by giving essentially good news portfolios such
[10:05] Speaker 1: as communications where of course the media is going to
[10:08] Speaker 1: be very nice to her, or sport we not a
[10:11] Speaker 1: lot of regulation involved, yet a lot of free tickets
[10:14] Speaker 1: are thrown around. We learned what we suspected to be
[10:21] Speaker 1: the case, which was about how much money was being
[10:26] Speaker 1: spent for her and the staff to go after the US.
[10:29] Speaker 1: But before we get there, the reason she was at
[10:30] Speaker 1: the National Press Club today is because, of course next
[10:32] Speaker 1: week the teenage social media band kicks in. Now, let's
[10:36] Speaker 1: be very clear, while I am not interested in the
[10:39] Speaker 1: personal political fortunes of the minister or the government, I
[10:42] Speaker 1: support the idea that Peter Dutton had that's right a
[10:45] Speaker 1: couple of years ago, to actually deal with this stuff.
[10:50] Speaker 1: Social media is in many ways like a bad casino,
[10:54] Speaker 1: no natural light, all dopamine and no clocks anywhere. Kids
[10:57] Speaker 1: get trapped in it, and we know there are plenty
[11:00] Speaker 1: of people stepping forward with evidence about how serious it
[11:04] Speaker 1: can be a way of being bullied twenty four to seven.
[11:07] Speaker 1: So I am not looking to one side about the
[11:09] Speaker 1: seriousness of this issue, but some of the sant demonee
[11:13] Speaker 1: around it just is doing my heading.
[11:17] Speaker 4: Now.
[11:17] Speaker 1: Of course, this person who would like to be Prime
[11:19] Speaker 1: minister one day. Now remember she was previously the Age
[11:21] Speaker 1: Care Minister. She stuffed that up. Well, now of course
[11:25] Speaker 1: that won't matter because remember it's not about their record,
[11:27] Speaker 1: it's about their projection into the future. This is what
[11:31] Speaker 1: she says about the changes which are on their way
[11:33] Speaker 1: next week.
[11:35] Speaker 5: With one law, we can protect Generation Alpha from being
[11:39] Speaker 5: sucked into purgatory by predatory algorithms described by the man
[11:44] Speaker 5: who created the feature as behavioral cocaine.
[11:49] Speaker 1: All right, good to see here, now, okay, now, unbelievably right,
[11:58] Speaker 1: annikle Wells gets to have it both ways. I'm going
[12:01] Speaker 1: to favor Generation from the evils of social media, while
[12:04] Speaker 1: of course being one of the principal figures in the
[12:06] Speaker 1: government that use the social media to talk to voters
[12:09] Speaker 1: like their children.
[12:11] Speaker 5: What do Rory Gilmoll's boyfriends have in common with coal,
[12:14] Speaker 5: nuclear gas and renewables. Welcome to Politics as pop Culture,
[12:18] Speaker 5: Season two.
[12:19] Speaker 1: Back in the habit housing like.
[12:21] Speaker 6: A master party.
[12:22] Speaker 5: This budgetweek has been filled with drama and intrigue, So
[12:25] Speaker 5: welcome to policy as pop culture.
[12:27] Speaker 3: Do you ever look at someone and wonder what is
[12:29] Speaker 3: going on inside their head?
[12:31] Speaker 1: Now? This seems to be the house style. This seems
[12:33] Speaker 1: to be the way that many Australians wish to interact
[12:36] Speaker 1: with the process conversations around policy. Who cares? It's all
[12:39] Speaker 1: about who's kind of more like the one I like?
[12:42] Speaker 1: And why? Because they talk about the stuff that I lack? Well,
[12:46] Speaker 1: I wonder how many of those people who all of
[12:48] Speaker 1: these videos are actually for will be okay with the
[12:51] Speaker 1: idea that the person who's just one of us fighting
[12:55] Speaker 1: for you in Canberra about the reality of just how
[12:58] Speaker 1: cushy her life. Now, as you know, she was dealing
[13:02] Speaker 1: with matters to do with Optus and then she had
[13:05] Speaker 1: to go to the United States. Why because she was
[13:07] Speaker 1: trying to say what's happening in Australia should happen around
[13:09] Speaker 1: the rest of the world. We also showed you at
[13:11] Speaker 1: the time, despite the fact that it was all hard work.
[13:13] Speaker 1: Everywhere there was the odd little party and of course
[13:18] Speaker 1: she was involved in many a forum that had nothing
[13:20] Speaker 1: to do with communications over there. But again that's just
[13:22] Speaker 1: me being picky, right, Communications Minister Anika Wells put one
[13:28] Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars on the taxpayer tab for three day
[13:34] Speaker 1: flights to New York. Now, she had to get there
[13:38] Speaker 1: and she had to hurry, but have her listen to
[13:42] Speaker 1: the breakdown in this cash. Now, remember, anyone who has
[13:45] Speaker 1: ever flown to New York City from Australian knows there's
[13:50] Speaker 1: two main ways to get there. In this case, it
[13:53] Speaker 1: would be canber to Sydney and then Sydney to La
[13:58] Speaker 1: La New York, or it might be Sydney or potentially
[14:02] Speaker 1: Brisbane across to Dallas and then you might again move
[14:06] Speaker 1: you away. So there's a little bit of hopping going around.
[14:10] Speaker 1: But have her listened to why this costs so much money? Again,
[14:14] Speaker 1: next time you see one of these videos that she's
[14:16] Speaker 1: just you know, working mum doing her bit. This is
[14:19] Speaker 1: how she truly treats your credit card.
[14:23] Speaker 7: Anika Wells and two staff traveled to the You and
[14:25] Speaker 7: General Assembly in September to promote Australia's world first social
[14:29] Speaker 7: media ban for under sixteen's. According to the government, airfares
[14:33] Speaker 7: alone came to ninety four point eight thousand Australian dollars,
[14:37] Speaker 7: accommodation was just under eighteen thousand, and ground transport cost
[14:41] Speaker 7: a further six thousand b BA.
[14:45] Speaker 1: Nothing to see here now again, it's just without question,
[14:50] Speaker 1: without question that I you know that I find the minister.
[14:53] Speaker 1: I'm definitely flying business class. Oh and the staff have
[14:56] Speaker 1: to as well. But again thirty thousand dollars. Apart from that,
[15:03] Speaker 1: of course, even bigger numbers, which again is a person
[15:06] Speaker 1: who is flying to America plenty of times I am
[15:08] Speaker 1: across the pricing of how long it takes to get there. Now,
[15:12] Speaker 1: whether they were booking the day before unlikely, or they
[15:15] Speaker 1: just didn't care and they were willing to pay the
[15:17] Speaker 1: surge prices. Why were the staff flying like that? Why
[15:24] Speaker 1: is there no question that the minister can't fly premium
[15:27] Speaker 1: economy not suggesting that Row fifty eight C is exactly
[15:31] Speaker 1: where they should be, But they don't even think twice
[15:36] Speaker 1: about whether or not when they have to travel, whether
[15:38] Speaker 1: they should travel in the best possible way, because of
[15:42] Speaker 1: course they don't have to pay now. When she was
[15:44] Speaker 1: asked about this today, Annika Wells did not like being
[15:48] Speaker 1: asked about it because it diverted from the true purpose
[15:51] Speaker 1: of the National Press Club address, which was she is awesome,
[15:54] Speaker 1: bowed down or be named sexist? If you don't, how do.
[15:59] Speaker 7: You justify spending this amount of taxpayers dollars?
[16:04] Speaker 5: Well, the reason you know all those things is because
[16:06] Speaker 5: we're transparent about them, and we will disclose them and
[16:09] Speaker 5: will continue to disclose information about that trip through the
[16:12] Speaker 5: usual processes. That trip was undertaken as the Minister for Communications,
[16:17] Speaker 5: and I think, and I would think that people who
[16:19] Speaker 5: were there for that un event who join us in
[16:21] Speaker 5: this room today would agree with me that it was
[16:24] Speaker 5: incredibly important that event fuelled a global momentum.
[16:29] Speaker 1: In this space.
[16:30] Speaker 7: You don't think that was expensive for airfes over ninety
[16:33] Speaker 7: four thousand dollars.
[16:36] Speaker 5: I've answered your question.
[16:40] Speaker 1: Now again. There will be people who will say, oh,
[16:43] Speaker 1: the bloke from scott News was asking the question how
[16:45] Speaker 1: good was it that you just wouldn't play into his narrative.
[16:51] Speaker 1: The whole point is that the Labor Party always presents
[16:54] Speaker 1: itself as you know, the friend of the little guy,
[16:57] Speaker 1: the little gal. The reality, of course, is that what
[17:01] Speaker 1: it is about now is about getting yourself to power
[17:05] Speaker 1: and enjoying every little perk that goes along the way,
[17:11] Speaker 1: pretending that of course we deserve credit because we're being
[17:13] Speaker 1: transparent about it, because sure we pissed the money against
[17:16] Speaker 1: the wall, but we tell you about it later. This
[17:19] Speaker 1: is the same person who, remember, is a Cabinet minister
[17:22] Speaker 1: right sitting on the Board of Directors of Australia, who,
[17:28] Speaker 1: when confronted with her own failures to deliver what the
[17:32] Speaker 1: government promised it would deliver in relation to keeping an
[17:35] Speaker 1: eye to prevent things like the TRIPLEO outage when it
[17:37] Speaker 1: came to optors, I'm just a new minister. Social media
[17:42] Speaker 1: terrible for teenagers. But look at me now again. I
[17:48] Speaker 1: have no doubt that her style of politics is going
[17:52] Speaker 1: to be ridiculously popular because of the way that she
[17:58] Speaker 1: performs in front of a camera, because of the little
[18:02] Speaker 1: connections that happened. When you have positions like the ones
[18:05] Speaker 1: that she currently does, it'll be hands off. But it
[18:10] Speaker 1: is extraordinary that if this stuff was a liberal you
[18:13] Speaker 1: know how the media would react. Now again, does it
[18:18] Speaker 1: mean that every single person who goes overseas should be
[18:21] Speaker 1: doing it by raft? No? Obviously key representatives of Australia
[18:26] Speaker 1: when it is relevant, well, they should of course be
[18:31] Speaker 1: taking care of because it is a representation of us.
[18:35] Speaker 1: But remember we had already paid for the Prime Minister
[18:37] Speaker 1: and all of his people to fly to New York
[18:42] Speaker 1: because of the iman new minister meant that she wasn't
[18:45] Speaker 1: on the plane that already went to New York. Instead,
[18:50] Speaker 1: it was this last minute booking and the seats had
[18:51] Speaker 1: to be as amazing as they obviously were. And I
[18:56] Speaker 1: know that you could take any dollar of federal government
[18:59] Speaker 1: spending and say but on what about? But I am
[19:01] Speaker 1: going to do this on this one when these people
[19:04] Speaker 1: spend the money like they spend the money, do they
[19:07] Speaker 1: feel even slightly guilty about it? Three million people will
[19:11] Speaker 1: run out of food this week. Ssh rubbish, poppy cock
[19:18] Speaker 1: and this style of Anika Wells where again she has
[19:22] Speaker 1: so many free tickets, She's got them on herself, the
[19:24] Speaker 1: Minister for freebies, and we'll get that declaration later in
[19:27] Speaker 1: the year. And you watch the extreme amount of media
[19:30] Speaker 1: who will not engage with this at all, whatsoever about
[19:33] Speaker 1: how many freebies there are, how many tax payer hundred flights,
[19:36] Speaker 1: all the rest of it. She seemed to be in
[19:39] Speaker 1: a bit of a mood today and by that I
[19:43] Speaker 1: infer nothing other than she was clearly cranky today when
[19:47] Speaker 1: being confronted by certain journalists on questions she didn't want
[19:50] Speaker 1: to answer. And again, the good politicians are the ones who, yes,
[19:54] Speaker 1: can stand there, can bring people's attention, can look like
[20:00] Speaker 1: a leader. But the ones who always are going to
[20:02] Speaker 1: end up hitting a brick wall are the ones who
[20:06] Speaker 1: have got a glass jaw. You tell me whether it's
[20:09] Speaker 1: a glass jaw or it's the jaw of a future
[20:12] Speaker 1: prime minister.
[20:14] Speaker 8: What will it look like? Will there be compensation force
[20:16] Speaker 8: a media outlets or sporting codes that might lose our
[20:21] Speaker 8: sponsorship or advertising revenue from such a change. And when
[20:26] Speaker 8: do you expect that this long awaited reform would actually
[20:28] Speaker 8: be realized?
[20:30] Speaker 5: Good right, Josh, thank you for the questions that I've
[20:33] Speaker 5: heard from you several times in the months running up
[20:35] Speaker 5: to now. I am not going to prosecute this through
[20:38] Speaker 5: the media.
[20:38] Speaker 8: Why has it taken until the last few weeks for
[20:41] Speaker 8: digital duty of care consultation to start?
[20:44] Speaker 5: I don't accept the premises are big public policy questions.
[20:47] Speaker 7: You don't think that was expensive for airfes over ninety
[20:50] Speaker 7: four thousand dollars.
[20:53] Speaker 5: I've answered your question.
[20:55] Speaker 1: Now again. That was the West Australian, the turbul Times,
[20:59] Speaker 1: and it's going and people we've always very scared to
[21:03] Speaker 1: have a crack because this is the Communications Minister and
[21:05] Speaker 1: she's you know, she could regulate us all out of existence.
[21:10] Speaker 1: I just can't stand these people because again they pretend
[21:12] Speaker 1: to be something else, but then they end up being
[21:14] Speaker 1: exactly the way that they end up being, which is
[21:19] Speaker 1: pretty poor for the pop test. I repeat, no bar
[21:22] Speaker 1: in Australia, regardless of where it is in Australia, thinks
[21:25] Speaker 1: it is okay to be spending this much money to
[21:28] Speaker 1: have the flashiest possible flight for someone to go to
[21:32] Speaker 1: a place like the United Nations, where it wasn't exclusively
[21:35] Speaker 1: about the very policy that when you get asked about it,
[21:38] Speaker 1: you pretend well to talk about the kids. Oh yeah,
[21:43] Speaker 1: more money. Despite the fact that this will be the law.
[21:46] Speaker 1: Is there anyone who doesn't know this is going to
[21:48] Speaker 1: be the law. The government will of course be using
[21:52] Speaker 1: more of your money to tell us about the new laws.
[21:56] Speaker 1: Ten million dollars on an advertising campaign to tell people
[22:01] Speaker 1: how this thing's going to work, because, of course, God
[22:03] Speaker 1: forbid the kids who are already smart enough to know
[22:08] Speaker 1: what's going on, who will be confronted with the technology
[22:11] Speaker 1: and be able to see it for themselves. No, no, no, no.
[22:13] Speaker 1: The advertising is for the people who aren't the kids.
[22:16] Speaker 1: The advertising is to send the message that here we
[22:20] Speaker 1: are protecting the kids from a technology that of course
[22:24] Speaker 1: they weaponize during an election. Remember this is the government
[22:28] Speaker 1: that says TikTok so bad because the potential Chinese surveillance,
[22:31] Speaker 1: you shouldn't use it on a phone in Parliament House.
[22:35] Speaker 1: But the very same politicians film social media videos for
[22:40] Speaker 1: TikTok in Parliament House. We that enough of these people,
[22:44] Speaker 1: but sadly we will have them for a long time
[22:47] Speaker 1: and potentially people like this in a style of politics
[22:50] Speaker 1: like this, and you know what immediately happened, Oh sexism, sexism. No, No,
[22:54] Speaker 1: it's called accountability. You want to put yourself up as
[22:58] Speaker 1: a leader. Well, part of being a leader is able
[23:00] Speaker 1: to handle the questions that you don't want to answer,
[23:04] Speaker 1: and not just pretending that the role of the media
[23:07] Speaker 1: and the idea again the communications media, that the role
[23:09] Speaker 1: of the media is to sit there and just dutifully
[23:11] Speaker 1: write down what you had to say and clap you
[23:13] Speaker 1: on on social media. Again, great difference between the real
[23:17] Speaker 1: world and the fake one that they create for themselves
[23:20] Speaker 1: in social media. Now, speaking about secrets and the way
[23:25] Speaker 1: that this government works, and more importantly, doesn't we know
[23:28] Speaker 1: that they love a secret document and this government is
[23:32] Speaker 1: now making a decision to try to increase how hard
[23:35] Speaker 1: it is to get information out of the government. Ludicrously,
[23:40] Speaker 1: they want to increase the ability to say no to everything.
[23:44] Speaker 1: Why because it's cabinet and confidence, which means the freedom
[23:46] Speaker 1: of information laws would produce even less than what you
[23:48] Speaker 1: currently see. And today a bunch of Labor senators have
[23:52] Speaker 1: voted for more secrecy. Labour senators were part of a
[23:56] Speaker 1: committee along with other senators about this PARTENTI your bill,
[24:00] Speaker 1: which is terrible and shouldn't even be coming out of
[24:02] Speaker 1: first gear. But surprise, surprise, some people wanted to censor
[24:05] Speaker 1: the Internet. Oh yeah, but they's so much better than
[24:07] Speaker 1: those evil libs. Labour senators were alone in backing the
[24:12] Speaker 1: bill and the committee's report released this afternoon, accepting evidence
[24:15] Speaker 1: from the Attorney General's Department that it would continue to
[24:18] Speaker 1: promote accountable and effective government while making changes to ensure
[24:22] Speaker 1: the ongoing viability of the FI system. Please descending reports
[24:27] Speaker 1: David Pocock, Green's coalition lamby, So this thing's not going
[24:31] Speaker 1: to pass, and they say that it is unwarranted and
[24:35] Speaker 1: undemocratic Liberal senator and deputy chair lead blythe saying that
[24:39] Speaker 1: it undermines public trust and accountability. Correct. Green Senator David
[24:44] Speaker 1: Shubrich criticized Labor for ignoring evidence given to the committee
[24:47] Speaker 1: and rejecting the amendments, described as a case study in
[24:50] Speaker 1: our hubris and addiction to secrecy guides their politics. See
[24:56] Speaker 1: the spending of one communications in this see the attitude
[25:02] Speaker 1: of the person running the future fund The stuff annoys
[25:05] Speaker 1: people because we understand that there are people who have
[25:09] Speaker 1: the opportunity to lead us, but when they want to
[25:13] Speaker 1: lead you up the garden path that your lying eyes,
[25:15] Speaker 1: that we should reserve, we should get a gold medal
[25:17] Speaker 1: because we've transparent about how much money that we waste.
[25:21] Speaker 1: That's the stuff that sends people frankly crazy. And speaking
[25:25] Speaker 1: of social media and the over use of it, let's
[25:27] Speaker 1: have a look again. Is you were working and working
[25:30] Speaker 1: hard and this being now a Wednesday, you're starting to
[25:32] Speaker 1: earn money for yourself, not just raising money for the government.
[25:37] Speaker 1: What did they spend time on with their taxpayer funded
[25:40] Speaker 1: social media staff. Well, let's have a look at this
[25:42] Speaker 1: one from the education ministers. So I got a text
[25:49] Speaker 1: lush time. Let's give out today hush time, time to plan.
[26:00] Speaker 1: Then there's this again from a person who writes the
[26:02] Speaker 1: laws that apply to your life.
[26:06] Speaker 5: William, Look who mommy's with.
[26:18] Speaker 1: You can make the video and just send it to
[26:20] Speaker 1: the kid, right, we'll show it when you get home
[26:22] Speaker 1: on and if it's got to go on the internet,
[26:23] Speaker 1: because we've all got to be reminded. Not like those
[26:25] Speaker 1: old krusty male politicians who never mentioned their kids. And
[26:31] Speaker 1: this South Australian Labor MP check that I could stop,
[26:43] Speaker 1: they could stop, make it stop. More about the Minister
[26:47] Speaker 1: for freebies in a moment or two time at the
[26:49] Speaker 1: National Press Club, about the social media staff, and about
[26:53] Speaker 1: you know, in cost of living crisis, but who cares?
[26:55] Speaker 1: Can I have another shampas please? I'm very important? And
[26:59] Speaker 1: then we'll have a had a little bit later about
[27:00] Speaker 1: inflation guess what not going down and probably not till
[27:03] Speaker 1: not next year but the year after. Oh that's great
[27:05] Speaker 1: if you're trying to play out for House. So glad
[27:07] Speaker 1: they got re elected. More in a second, thank you
[27:14] Speaker 1: very much for watching, looking forward to talking about the
[27:16] Speaker 1: economy a little bit later, and a reminded can a
[27:18] Speaker 1: we sent me and email Paul at Skyews dot com
[27:21] Speaker 1: dot au homepage, s guy News dot com dot au.
[27:23] Speaker 1: All right, let's get into it right now. A bloke
[27:25] Speaker 1: who knows what it's like to be the Communications Minister
[27:27] Speaker 1: and all the positive press that goes with it is
[27:29] Speaker 1: none other than Stephen Conroy and of course Roscobelle National
[27:32] Speaker 1: Senator joining us from Canberra. Why because there's questions to
[27:35] Speaker 1: be asked. Sola's nice to see you both. I'll start
[27:39] Speaker 1: off with you Ross. Do you love this communications minister?
[27:42] Speaker 2: Right?
[27:43] Speaker 1: I deserve a gold star because we're so transparent. Sure,
[27:45] Speaker 1: we just spend the money, but we deserve we deserve
[27:48] Speaker 1: we deserve a couple because we told you how we
[27:50] Speaker 1: spent the money. Again, it is extraordinary the arrogance that's
[27:56] Speaker 1: around people who think not only their career only goes up,
[27:59] Speaker 1: but there government only lives forever.
[28:04] Speaker 9: It was a question that came from now over there.
[28:07] Speaker 9: It clearly wasn't ready for. And we've got a new
[28:09] Speaker 9: line of defense. Maybe we can use it in criminal cases.
[28:11] Speaker 9: I'll run into a bank and put a gun in
[28:12] Speaker 9: there and say this is a stick up, and when
[28:14] Speaker 9: the police come and get me, I'll say, but everybody
[28:16] Speaker 9: knew as a stick up. I was clear about that
[28:17] Speaker 9: from the get go. But it's a lot of money.
[28:19] Speaker 9: It's a very bad look. There's a lot of government
[28:22] Speaker 9: spending that goes where you don't get to say in it.
[28:23] Speaker 9: I've got to say that there are rules here that
[28:25] Speaker 9: I think we spend hundreds of millions of dollars saving
[28:28] Speaker 9: hundreds of thousands of dollars in.
[28:31] Speaker 10: Potential corruption or misuse.
[28:33] Speaker 9: But that is a lot of money for a three
[28:35] Speaker 9: day trip ninety four thousand dollars worth of airfares. It
[28:38] Speaker 9: doesn't pass the pub test. We need to look at
[28:40] Speaker 9: being more pragmatic on these things. Happened to me when
[28:43] Speaker 9: we're coming down from my fly from Newcastle. Occasionally we
[28:46] Speaker 9: booked the.
[28:48] Speaker 10: Fair that's the cheapest fair.
[28:50] Speaker 9: The first few times I think I came down maybe
[28:52] Speaker 9: ten or thirteen times, it was one third the price
[28:55] Speaker 9: of the Flexi Fair. I couldn't make one for some reason.
[28:58] Speaker 9: It got canceled, and then they suddenly I got chatted.
[29:00] Speaker 10: I wasn't following the rules.
[29:01] Speaker 9: I've got what the Flexi fair, which is three times
[29:03] Speaker 9: more expensive. It's difficult, it's wrong, but it's just too
[29:05] Speaker 9: much money.
[29:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, it is good admission about things, right Stephen, obviously
[29:10] Speaker 1: or say it's all within the rules. So I save that.
[29:12] Speaker 1: So let's just get to the social media band and
[29:14] Speaker 1: where it's going to go here. Right now, look this thing,
[29:18] Speaker 1: the intent obviously good. Right, There isn't any person who
[29:21] Speaker 1: doesn't understand what the hope of this is. And yeah,
[29:24] Speaker 1: if it's a test case, hopefully it's something that goes
[29:26] Speaker 1: around the world. You know, we invented the hills hoist.
[29:29] Speaker 1: We can come up with good ideas, and yes sometimes
[29:31] Speaker 1: they go around the world. If it all works, great, good, excellent, Right,
[29:35] Speaker 1: but do you think they're ready or that implementation is
[29:38] Speaker 1: going to be pretty rocky because remember, it's not the
[29:41] Speaker 1: kid who gets fined, it's not the parent who gets fined,
[29:44] Speaker 1: it's the company that gets fined.
[29:46] Speaker 11: Well, firstly, I absolutely support where Anika is championing this
[29:55] Speaker 11: social media ban. The tech baroness of the world, the
[30:00] Speaker 11: illon musks, etc. Have strip mined our souls and they
[30:07] Speaker 11: should be held accountable for what they've done. They've created
[30:09] Speaker 11: a product that it's as toxic as big farmer, as
[30:14] Speaker 11: toxic as the gambling companies are able to exploit, and
[30:21] Speaker 11: they absolutely should be held to account. I mean, these
[30:25] Speaker 11: are the people who are saying, when it comes to AI,
[30:28] Speaker 11: oh look trust us, trust us, we'll do the right thing. Well,
[30:31] Speaker 11: I'm afraid trust in them is very thin. The elon
[30:36] Speaker 11: musks of this world do not care what their algorithms do,
[30:41] Speaker 11: do I young, do not care how they pollute childhoods.
[30:46] Speaker 11: They simply want to rip every bit of data and frankly,
[30:51] Speaker 11: for them to pretend that they have no idea the
[30:55] Speaker 11: age of their customers or they could tell you what
[30:57] Speaker 11: underwear you're.
[30:59] Speaker 6: Wearing today brand.
[31:01] Speaker 11: So this argument that unless we can catch one hundred
[31:04] Speaker 11: percent accurately, we should not proceed down here. I've heard
[31:09] Speaker 11: these arguments all before. They are just not credible. On
[31:14] Speaker 11: the question of the airfares, the minister had a crisis
[31:18] Speaker 11: that blew up at the last minute.
[31:20] Speaker 6: It was a tragic, tragic crisis.
[31:22] Speaker 1: But she was only on airlines.
[31:24] Speaker 11: Airlines have to, you know, take responsible for the fact
[31:29] Speaker 11: that when people have to change their airfares are very
[31:32] Speaker 11: short notice, you absolutely pay through the nose, and that
[31:36] Speaker 11: certainly seems to be what's happened here. So yes, it's
[31:39] Speaker 11: easy to point to ninety thousand dollars and say, oh,
[31:42] Speaker 11: that is shocking. Most Australians can manage to get to
[31:46] Speaker 11: New York, you know, probably three or four thousand dollars economy,
[31:50] Speaker 11: But you've got to look at the facts of what happened.
[31:53] Speaker 11: A really important crisis for the minister, she had to
[31:56] Speaker 11: deal with it. But equally, I will absolutely defend going
[32:00] Speaker 11: to the UN to promote this policy. It's world leading.
[32:04] Speaker 11: Other countries are watching and want to follow us, and
[32:06] Speaker 11: everyone should stand up to these tech barons. Because the
[32:10] Speaker 11: future of our kids and our whole society is at stake.
[32:14] Speaker 1: Look, I don't disagree with about what the stakes are here,
[32:17] Speaker 1: but what's kind of annoying me here is surprise surprise
[32:20] Speaker 1: each way on all of this, right, which I agree
[32:22] Speaker 1: about how pernicious many of these companies are, and again
[32:26] Speaker 1: about the logic about pushing against them, But the very
[32:29] Speaker 1: minister who wants to save the kids from the evils
[32:32] Speaker 1: of these companies is also trying to be a star
[32:34] Speaker 1: on their platforms. Right. The messaging is very tailored. There's
[32:38] Speaker 1: somebody working in her office, like many officers, that is
[32:43] Speaker 1: trying to tailor that message. And that's because, yes, there's
[32:45] Speaker 1: a whole bunch of youth that's there. But pick a lane.
[32:48] Speaker 1: Is this something so toxic kids can't be anywhere near?
[32:50] Speaker 1: Or is this the billboard of the future.
[32:52] Speaker 6: Now I've got to disagree on to my first out.
[32:55] Speaker 6: I do think, tragically, it's a billboard in the future.
[32:57] Speaker 11: I think we've talked about this before. We're dinosaurs tragically,
[33:01] Speaker 11: you know. I don't think there's huge much social media,
[33:04] Speaker 11: but that is the way that the world communicates.
[33:07] Speaker 6: The way I think it can play.
[33:08] Speaker 11: The issue is the use of these platforms for political
[33:12] Speaker 11: campaigning is not trying to target people under the age
[33:16] Speaker 11: of eighteen because they don't quote. So I think it
[33:21] Speaker 11: can plate into issues that are completely separate.
[33:24] Speaker 1: Of course, Ross I was about to get to you, yes, mate, jumping,
[33:27] Speaker 1: just remember you're voting for it.
[33:31] Speaker 9: I think the goals as we've spoken about Paul on
[33:34] Speaker 9: this shower Noble, I've in my family had a couple
[33:36] Speaker 9: of really nafty incidents and consequences from cyber bailing. When
[33:41] Speaker 9: you get down to it, we're already seeing we're not
[33:43] Speaker 9: even in the cut shutdown.
[33:44] Speaker 10: It's not going to work.
[33:45] Speaker 9: There are three new apps that are being downloaded by
[33:47] Speaker 9: people in numbers that have never been done before because
[33:49] Speaker 9: they don't fall in part of this. You have the
[33:52] Speaker 9: search history where you actually just get blurring. You can
[33:55] Speaker 9: still go through to the side if you want. You
[33:57] Speaker 9: have YouTube that now there are no restrictions on underage
[34:01] Speaker 9: accounts because they've been caught up it. And I went
[34:05] Speaker 9: strongly when this was going through and fought for YouTube
[34:08] Speaker 9: to be removed because I think it's censorship that's not
[34:10] Speaker 9: really a social media site per se. They've put a
[34:13] Speaker 9: statement out today the policy as it is I have
[34:16] Speaker 9: real concerns about whether it works or not. It is
[34:19] Speaker 9: a fine idea, but it was two leaders needed to
[34:22] Speaker 9: get a result.
[34:23] Speaker 10: At the time, I didn't. I haven't looked at it,
[34:27] Speaker 10: and you're.
[34:27] Speaker 1: Not vote for it.
[34:29] Speaker 6: The opposition is supporting this.
[34:30] Speaker 10: I did not vote for it.
[34:32] Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, and I get at the time, but Matt
[34:34] Speaker 9: Canavan and I at the time were back benches.
[34:35] Speaker 10: We went and saw Coleman.
[34:36] Speaker 9: We had a discussion of our things and we did
[34:38] Speaker 9: not vote for this because we knew it would not work.
[34:42] Speaker 10: And already when you.
[34:42] Speaker 9: See appsiter out there that have been replacing it's just
[34:45] Speaker 9: it's a failure of a good idea, and everyone's hailing
[34:48] Speaker 9: it as world leading. It's not an experiment that is
[34:51] Speaker 9: not good enough.
[34:52] Speaker 1: Well, I'm never want to cut off a good fight
[34:53] Speaker 1: in the Telly, but I do have other things I
[34:55] Speaker 1: want to get to. So let's get to those here,
[34:58] Speaker 1: which includes the inflation question. All right now, Stephen, The
[35:02] Speaker 1: reality is is that the Reserve Bank. You were understandably
[35:06] Speaker 1: and quite correctly, quite critical about the last of the
[35:08] Speaker 1: rate increases that were there. I've been critical about the
[35:13] Speaker 1: circumstances under which some of the rate cuts have happened.
[35:17] Speaker 1: I think that you know, again, you don't need that
[35:19] Speaker 1: many pages to work out what some of the turning
[35:21] Speaker 1: points were in the first few months of this year,
[35:23] Speaker 1: about the election result, as soon as there was that
[35:26] Speaker 1: rate drop in February that was massive, as soon as,
[35:29] Speaker 1: of course the Trump effect kicked in, and we'll talk
[35:31] Speaker 1: about that perhaps in a moment or two time, but
[35:33] Speaker 1: we also know that part of the picture has been
[35:36] Speaker 1: the government themselves saying, well, we've artificially kept inflation low
[35:39] Speaker 1: because of energy rebates, all of this sort of stuff.
[35:42] Speaker 1: And now we have the Reserve Bank saying that basically
[35:44] Speaker 1: the two to three that supposedly was mission accomplished a
[35:47] Speaker 1: few months ago is now off to twenty twenty seven.
[35:50] Speaker 1: And an honest conversation about another up before we get
[35:54] Speaker 1: it down. What's going on?
[35:56] Speaker 11: Well, the Reserve Bank are bedweathers. Seriously, there are analysis
[36:00] Speaker 11: of the Australian economy for the last three or four
[36:03] Speaker 11: years has just been fundamentally wrong. So here's an interesting
[36:08] Speaker 11: one for you, Paul. In those inflation numbers, there's the
[36:12] Speaker 11: set of numbers that are impacted by the market. Then
[36:15] Speaker 11: there's a set of numbers that are completely under the
[36:19] Speaker 11: control of government. It's called automatic indexation, Paul. You have
[36:22] Speaker 11: talked about this for years myself to figure outes that
[36:27] Speaker 11: go up automatically. They're a huge driver, and they're not
[36:33] Speaker 11: going to change whether or not the Reserve Bank put
[36:37] Speaker 11: there interest rates up or not. So this whole section
[36:41] Speaker 11: of the CPI that is government controlled that couldn't care
[36:45] Speaker 11: less what the Reserve Bank does.
[36:48] Speaker 6: So then you get into the situation where the.
[36:51] Speaker 11: Reserve bank are just ignoring the fact that they are
[36:56] Speaker 11: the reason the economy retain it remains weak and the
[37:01] Speaker 11: growth is not what it should be. They've been pounding
[37:06] Speaker 11: the economy. They've got their foot on the throat of
[37:08] Speaker 11: the economy, and they don't care if GDP grows this
[37:12] Speaker 11: two percent or less because they are fixated with a
[37:17] Speaker 11: figure that is artificially inflated by government policies supported.
[37:22] Speaker 6: By both sides of politics. They push prices up.
[37:24] Speaker 11: Their one off effects at one time of the year,
[37:28] Speaker 11: and the key thing which a reserve bank note, because
[37:30] Speaker 11: they're all economists, is they're one off and the rest
[37:35] Speaker 11: of the year's numbers will not include the same one
[37:39] Speaker 11: off effects in this quarter, and they know this, and
[37:44] Speaker 11: for the Reserve Bank government to be making the arguments
[37:48] Speaker 11: she did today. Frankly, do they not look at the data?
[37:53] Speaker 11: Do they not actually look how wrong they've been for
[37:55] Speaker 11: the last three to four years in their analysis is
[37:58] Speaker 11: in Australian economy.
[38:00] Speaker 1: But also you know, ross to the point though, which
[38:02] Speaker 1: is that normal people sitting at home, they just see
[38:04] Speaker 1: the up, the down, the roller coaster of all of this. Again.
[38:07] Speaker 1: I understand why the record low was the record low,
[38:10] Speaker 1: and why once you come out of pandemics and all
[38:13] Speaker 1: the rest of it, and it's over stimulation, and I
[38:15] Speaker 1: understand why they all go up, right, But the collective
[38:19] Speaker 1: python that still sits around the neck of anyone trying
[38:22] Speaker 1: to pay a house off at the moment it's only
[38:24] Speaker 1: barely come down. We're still sort of effectively at the
[38:28] Speaker 1: pressure of eleven rate rises and a chance of at
[38:32] Speaker 1: some point a twelfth or the effect of twelve. I
[38:39] Speaker 1: just I don't understand how people don't blame the government
[38:41] Speaker 1: for it, but they seemingly don't. But the Treasurer will
[38:44] Speaker 1: tell us everything's okay. Well, the Reserve Bank's telling us no,
[38:48] Speaker 1: is that a bed wedding position.
[38:52] Speaker 9: No, it's not, because let's get down to it. Both
[38:54] Speaker 9: peaks of inflation, and both peaks have been caused by
[38:57] Speaker 9: government spending. It was a government spending coming out of
[38:59] Speaker 9: COVID and job Keeper and all the stimulus packages to
[39:02] Speaker 9: get the economy going that caused inflation to rise.
[39:04] Speaker 10: Then I accept that. I think that's rise.
[39:06] Speaker 9: But now we got inflation under control a little while ago.
[39:10] Speaker 9: And they talk about the one off institutions. Well, the
[39:12] Speaker 9: one off largely on this was energy prices jumping up
[39:15] Speaker 9: again because the subsidies came off and the energy prices
[39:19] Speaker 9: jumped up significantly, and added to this, government spending is
[39:22] Speaker 9: out of control. Now it was out of control, probably
[39:25] Speaker 9: for better reasons are under COVID. You can't just say, oh,
[39:29] Speaker 9: this is a hangover. If you get your car fixed
[39:31] Speaker 9: and it breaks down again for something else, it's because
[39:33] Speaker 9: you've done something to us done it. The government had
[39:36] Speaker 9: inflation in the band and they aren't bedwets. If the
[39:38] Speaker 9: inflation rate is three point eight percent, that is above
[39:41] Speaker 9: the band, you have to fix it. And I agree
[39:42] Speaker 9: with Stephen the number one cause is government spending. But
[39:47] Speaker 9: they aren't doing anything about it, so someone has to
[39:49] Speaker 9: do something about it otherwise.
[39:50] Speaker 10: We're going to have a problem.
[39:51] Speaker 1: Now I will reveal a little bit later in the show,
[39:53] Speaker 1: and I'm hitting you both between the eyes on something
[39:55] Speaker 1: that you're not prepared for. So I'm going to see
[39:57] Speaker 1: how quickly you can come up with something. Here. Tarantino
[40:00] Speaker 1: has delivered his best twenty five films of of the
[40:05] Speaker 1: has named his favorite film of the past twenty five years. Okay,
[40:09] Speaker 1: it's a black Hawk Down, That's what he says. Is
[40:11] Speaker 1: the number one? Right, I say the number one film
[40:13] Speaker 1: in the past twenty five years is there will be
[40:15] Speaker 1: blood spectacular film. All right, Lat's think of something anything
[40:19] Speaker 1: you've seen in the past twenty five years. What do
[40:21] Speaker 1: you Stephen Conroy is best film in the past twenty
[40:26] Speaker 1: five Look.
[40:28] Speaker 11: I think pulp fiction is just an absolute classic. I
[40:31] Speaker 11: mean the irony is it's a Quentin film. I think
[40:35] Speaker 11: it's I've got everything that really entertained and mused horrified
[40:43] Speaker 11: me like it had everything in the long gun.
[40:46] Speaker 1: Very good, all right, And see I'm telling you this
[40:47] Speaker 1: one without notice. And these are blokes who you know,
[40:50] Speaker 1: talking about economic policy and all the rest, but there's
[40:52] Speaker 1: a real life and they see a films. Senator, your
[40:54] Speaker 1: favorite of the past twenty five.
[40:58] Speaker 9: My favorite, I'd probably get kicked a shadow cabinet tomorrow.
[41:01] Speaker 9: The hangover, I just thought it was. I think maybe
[41:03] Speaker 9: when I lived it myself there for a little while.
[41:06] Speaker 1: I commit it to that look at all times. Thank you, lads,
[41:09] Speaker 1: I do appreciate it. Get some alan from the hangover.
[41:12] Speaker 1: Just think about that. If you're ever a little distracted
[41:15] Speaker 1: at times, quick break back with more a little more
[41:17] Speaker 1: on the economy next, and then yeah, we'll dive into
[41:19] Speaker 1: that full list of Tarantino's films. Send me an email
[41:22] Speaker 1: and I'd love to know what's been your number one
[41:24] Speaker 1: of the past twenty five minutes. All right, let's keep
[41:30] Speaker 1: talking about the economy, because again, government's always going to
[41:32] Speaker 1: tell us nothing to see here, Opposition is going to
[41:35] Speaker 1: say terrible as it is. From ECHI Economics is none
[41:37] Speaker 1: other than Warren Hogan. I always love him because he's
[41:39] Speaker 1: always going to tell us what's actually going on. I
[41:42] Speaker 1: don't know if you heard Steven Conroy there, but he
[41:43] Speaker 1: referred to the Reserve Bank as bed winners. Do you
[41:46] Speaker 1: agree with him because they're a little two up or
[41:48] Speaker 1: a little two down? Or is this the goldilocks approach
[41:51] Speaker 1: to how austraight is going?
[41:53] Speaker 4: Well?
[41:54] Speaker 12: Paul I watch Stevens commentary on the Reserve Bank because
[41:58] Speaker 12: he is the best fort in the of a rate hike.
[42:01] Speaker 12: When he's rhetoric starts to really amp up and his
[42:05] Speaker 12: attacks on them get personal.
[42:08] Speaker 4: We know they're about the hike rates.
[42:09] Speaker 12: So it is actually destructive because we've the reason central
[42:14] Speaker 12: banks are independent and senior respected politicians like Stevens shouldn't
[42:19] Speaker 12: do that is they have to make the tough decisions
[42:21] Speaker 12: that our politicians can't. And the problem what we've seen
[42:25] Speaker 12: in the last couple of months confirmed today is great news.
[42:28] Speaker 12: The private sector is coming back. People are spending pretty
[42:32] Speaker 12: consistently now, businesses are investing. But we've got no ability
[42:37] Speaker 12: to grow the economy without creating inflation because first of all,
[42:40] Speaker 12: we didn't slow the economy enough. We didn't raise rates
[42:42] Speaker 12: high enough in the first place, and so as soon
[42:45] Speaker 12: as the economy's recovering, it's creating inflation pressure again.
[42:49] Speaker 4: And that's a reality.
[42:51] Speaker 12: It's not because the Reserve Bank's got their foot on
[42:53] Speaker 12: the throat of the economy.
[42:55] Speaker 4: It's quite the opposite.
[42:56] Speaker 12: We're getting growth in the economy when you include inflation
[43:00] Speaker 12: of around six percent nomenal growth. The interest rate probably
[43:03] Speaker 12: should be around five it would have been under Glenn
[43:06] Speaker 12: Stevens or An McFarlane. And we're just way too live
[43:10] Speaker 12: And you can see it in the housing market. House
[43:12] Speaker 12: prices are going up even though they're extremely expensive for
[43:15] Speaker 12: those people. So analysis is wrong and it's counterproductive.
[43:20] Speaker 1: Okay, one day we'll get you too, with the same room,
[43:22] Speaker 1: and it'll be fun for everyone to watch the brawl,
[43:24] Speaker 1: the fight back and forth. I look forward to it.
[43:27] Speaker 1: Let's talk though, again about those little cat's whiskers that
[43:30] Speaker 1: you look for that tell us how things are going,
[43:33] Speaker 1: because to me, you know, I obviously try to look
[43:38] Speaker 1: at it from an individual's perspective rather than that sort
[43:41] Speaker 1: of holistic approach when I see a country where three
[43:45] Speaker 1: million people are going to run out of food, when
[43:47] Speaker 1: I see the mortgage stress, the power bill stress, all
[43:50] Speaker 1: the rest of it. But also I know the reality
[43:53] Speaker 1: is is that, you know, personal debt never been higher,
[43:56] Speaker 1: people love living larger than they did, say twenty thirty
[44:00] Speaker 1: years ago. Is this part of the political reality that
[44:05] Speaker 1: the government's allowed to get away. We're peddling up against
[44:07] Speaker 1: the wall because we do too.
[44:10] Speaker 12: Yeah, well, there's no doubt that we have a very
[44:13] Speaker 12: good access to credit and that was the big change
[44:16] Speaker 12: in the last thirty years. And now we've got access
[44:18] Speaker 12: to our mortgage offset accounts and so people can get
[44:21] Speaker 12: through tough times. They don't improve their position. But the
[44:25] Speaker 12: thing that's really different is our economy is unlike the
[44:28] Speaker 12: economy that was around before the pandemic. Before the pandemic,
[44:31] Speaker 12: we couldn't find jobs for everyone. It was unemployment was
[44:34] Speaker 12: the problem. But that's all changed with the retirement of
[44:37] Speaker 12: this baby boomer generation, and now we can't find enough
[44:40] Speaker 12: people to fill the jobs. We've got labor shortages. That's
[44:43] Speaker 12: why our economy speed limits only two percent growth, and
[44:46] Speaker 12: that's why anything stronger is likely to create inflation. And
[44:50] Speaker 12: what the government's doing by increasing its presence in the
[44:52] Speaker 12: economy and throwing a lot of money into the care
[44:56] Speaker 12: economy is that is making it harder for the prime
[45:00] Speaker 12: sector to increase our capacity by investing. Now, we had
[45:03] Speaker 12: some good news on investment, and it's great. There was
[45:05] Speaker 12: some really good news in this with the private sector
[45:08] Speaker 12: investing and spending, but the problem is with the government
[45:11] Speaker 12: also out there spending more than ever and not investing.
[45:15] Speaker 12: The government investing is great. We've sent some great infrastructure,
[45:18] Speaker 12: but it's that recurren spending and particularly the funding of
[45:22] Speaker 12: the private sector activity, and it's not efficient. That's why
[45:25] Speaker 12: we've got no productivity. And of course that's productivity is
[45:28] Speaker 12: where we get increases in wages above inflation and our
[45:31] Speaker 12: living standards go up. And that's the problem for most
[45:34] Speaker 12: Australians is their standard of living is not improving because
[45:37] Speaker 12: of the cost of living because they can't get their
[45:40] Speaker 12: wages to grow higher than inflation. It doesn't matter if
[45:42] Speaker 12: it's government prices or its private sector prices. That is
[45:46] Speaker 12: the lived experience in this country and we're not used
[45:48] Speaker 12: to it because the previous twenty five years we created
[45:52] Speaker 12: one of the best economies in the world and one
[45:53] Speaker 12: of the wealthiest economies or one of the wealthiest household
[45:56] Speaker 12: sectors because we had productivity. So that's the big problem
[46:00] Speaker 12: for us now and we're not solving it through government.
[46:03] Speaker 12: We've got to get the private sector investing in all
[46:04] Speaker 12: this new technology, we've got to get people into the
[46:06] Speaker 12: right jobs, etc.
[46:07] Speaker 1: But also what seems to be the design right, there's
[46:11] Speaker 1: a design fault in the way that the federal budgets
[46:14] Speaker 1: put together where it's in structural deficit because thirty seven
[46:18] Speaker 1: percent of the entire budget goes on social security and welfare, right,
[46:23] Speaker 1: compared to say, six percent in defense. Government's fiddling around
[46:27] Speaker 1: earlier in the week pretending, oh, we're going to save
[46:28] Speaker 1: money in defense. Well, you want to save some real money.
[46:31] Speaker 1: There's an area to go after. The single largest source
[46:36] Speaker 1: of revenue for the government. It's not company tax, not GST,
[46:38] Speaker 1: it's the average person working. However long they do. It
[46:41] Speaker 1: feels to me like the system is now built into
[46:45] Speaker 1: the DNA that it's going to screw most of the
[46:48] Speaker 1: people most of the time. And good luck to you
[46:50] Speaker 1: if you can somehow overcome it. But it also requires
[46:54] Speaker 1: us as voters to want to demand more than a
[46:57] Speaker 1: system that does that to us all the time.
[46:59] Speaker 12: Right, Well, yeah, and look, the bigger picture is there's
[47:03] Speaker 12: this idea that you know, Australians increasingly since the pandemic,
[47:07] Speaker 12: you want government to help and expect more of government
[47:12] Speaker 12: and the aging of the population. But at the same time,
[47:15] Speaker 12: there's only so much government can do, and you know,
[47:18] Speaker 12: the government's effectively taking over key elements of things like
[47:21] Speaker 12: age care and childcare and the NDIS. Whereas if there
[47:24] Speaker 12: was a private sector with competition and innovation and doing
[47:27] Speaker 12: it efficiently, it would cost us as a country less,
[47:30] Speaker 12: but we're not going that route. But then, of course
[47:32] Speaker 12: the point is we're paying for it.
[47:34] Speaker 4: Through higher taxes.
[47:35] Speaker 12: And I think that Australians eventually get to a point
[47:38] Speaker 12: where they realize that their tax burden is just so
[47:41] Speaker 12: high and is it being used wisely. There's huge political
[47:44] Speaker 12: consequences for the government of the day when people get
[47:48] Speaker 12: to that point of just saying this is not right.
[47:51] Speaker 12: And I think we're close, you know, I think it's happening.
[47:54] Speaker 12: The burial risk for the government in the next two
[47:56] Speaker 12: years out of next election is that they would they
[47:58] Speaker 12: should be getting the RBA high crates now because if
[48:01] Speaker 12: this inflation starts to get away from us and they
[48:04] Speaker 12: have to high rates a lot, and the longer you
[48:07] Speaker 12: leave it, the more you're going to have to do.
[48:09] Speaker 12: We could end up with a major downturn in the economy,
[48:12] Speaker 12: and of course that's really going to get people asked
[48:14] Speaker 12: the questions. So it's a very I think it's a
[48:17] Speaker 12: really risky time for the government and I think next
[48:20] Speaker 12: week we'll see them come out and talk about cutting
[48:22] Speaker 12: back spending to try and seem to be doing something.
[48:25] Speaker 12: But the reality is it's it's too late. They've actually
[48:28] Speaker 12: overegged it already. They can't act quickly enough. It's around
[48:31] Speaker 12: one who can get it under control.
[48:33] Speaker 1: Well, and remember you know again, nobody seems to refer
[48:35] Speaker 1: to this. I certainly know you know it, but people
[48:37] Speaker 1: don't refer to it. The Intergenerational Report tells us that
[48:39] Speaker 1: there's going to be a budget deficit every year for
[48:41] Speaker 1: the next forty years, treating dollars in debt. Guess what
[48:44] Speaker 1: that means one point two, one point three, one point four,
[48:46] Speaker 1: one point seven, and then the priority of paying off
[48:50] Speaker 1: goes higher and high and just crazy. Anyway, I love
[48:52] Speaker 1: you to talk to you mate, EQ economics, Warren Hogan,
[48:55] Speaker 1: lovely bloke, great insight. Thank you. We'll talk to you
[48:57] Speaker 1: again very soon.
[48:59] Speaker 4: Thanks.
[48:59] Speaker 1: Well, all right, get him in the room with Stephen Conroy.
[49:01] Speaker 1: That'll be a good ding dong. Why not after the break.
[49:04] Speaker 1: The full list of Tarantino's best films of the first
[49:08] Speaker 1: twenty five years of the twenty first century. Quentin Tarantino,
[49:15] Speaker 1: one of the great film minds of the twentieth and
[49:17] Speaker 1: twenty first century, has told us these are his top
[49:20] Speaker 1: ten films of the century thus far. Twenty five years
[49:25] Speaker 1: into it. Can you believe at number one? Black Hawk Down?
[49:29] Speaker 1: Great movie, but I don't know if I put it there.
[49:30] Speaker 1: Toy Story three lost in translation. That is a ripping film.
[49:34] Speaker 1: Go and have a look at that Dunkirk, beautiful war film.
[49:37] Speaker 1: If one can be, there will be blood. My favorite
[49:40] Speaker 1: film of the twenty first century. Got the chance to
[49:42] Speaker 1: see that on the big screen recently, Zodiac, Unstoppable, mad Max, Shawna,
[49:46] Speaker 1: The Dead Midnight in Paris. Agreed, disagree? Send me your views,
[49:49] Speaker 1: Paulitsgonews dot com dot au see Tomorrow Night. Here is
[49:53] Speaker 1: the late debate

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