# Paul Murray Live | 6 August

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 6 Aug 2026, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/d835e059-2169-4fb4-9e2b-b49e00d29c56/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

The first home buyers scheme is apparently not exclusively for first home buyers, Chris Bowen blowing 50 grand a week flitting around the world to talk about climate change. Plus, artificial intelligence is now creeping into dating apps. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: This is Paul Murray Live.
[0:07] Speaker 2: Welcome into the man Cave. Caleb bond In for the
[0:09] Speaker 2: Great Man tonight. Thank you, Sharry. Now he's feeling a
[0:12] Speaker 2: little under the weather, as you might have noticed if
[0:13] Speaker 2: you were watching last night, so I hope he's feeling better. Soon,
[0:16] Speaker 2: turn the telly off and go to bed. If you're watching, Paul,
[0:19] Speaker 2: it'll do you some good. But in the meantime there's
[0:21] Speaker 2: plenty to get through. You would have thought that a
[0:24] Speaker 2: first Home Bars scheme would be exclusively for first home bars,
[0:27] Speaker 2: but apparently it's not. I'll have that and some other
[0:30] Speaker 2: grim news on housing. Lisa god Arden, Joe Hildebrand for
[0:33] Speaker 2: the Panel tonight, Chris Bowen blowing fifty grand a week
[0:37] Speaker 2: flitting around the world to talk about climate change, never
[0:40] Speaker 2: mind the emissions. And as ever, on a Thursday, Colin
[0:43] Speaker 2: Flynn Live from Washington. Apparently artificial intelligence is now creeping
[0:47] Speaker 2: into dating apps. He'll have all the details. Now, do
[0:51] Speaker 2: you know how many days it is since the federal
[0:54] Speaker 2: budget was handed down? Eighty six days, twelve weeks and
[0:58] Speaker 2: two days, and it is making front page news.
[1:02] Speaker 1: You can't be serious, man, You cannot be serious.
[1:07] Speaker 2: I know, I know, but it just keeps on unraveling now.
[1:10] Speaker 2: Of course, earlier this week the Albanezy government said it
[1:13] Speaker 2: would sort out this widow's tax business where if your
[1:16] Speaker 2: husband or wife died and you had a property that
[1:19] Speaker 2: was negatively geared, it would no longer be eligible for
[1:23] Speaker 2: negative gearing. Now today on the front of the Australian,
[1:26] Speaker 2: you had the Labor MP for Sturt in Adelaide Clear
[1:30] Speaker 2: Clutterham telling the constitut of Personal the constituent presume she's
[1:35] Speaker 2: got more than one, that she didn't understand why the
[1:38] Speaker 2: capital gains tax changes had gone so far to include
[1:42] Speaker 2: not just properties, but shares and other investments. She wrote
[1:46] Speaker 2: to that resident, Robert Cooper, that I agree with your concerns.
[1:51] Speaker 2: Speaking only for myself, she wrote, I could not see
[1:54] Speaker 2: the rationale. I could see the rationale with respect to
[1:57] Speaker 2: negative gearing reforms and CGT re forms for investment property,
[2:02] Speaker 2: but I had difficulty coming to terms with the extension
[2:04] Speaker 2: of these changes to other asset classes for the specific
[2:08] Speaker 2: reason you identify. Other residents of Stut have previously raised
[2:13] Speaker 2: similar concerns with me, and I have spoken directly with
[2:16] Speaker 2: the Treasurer about them. I'm working on a proposal to
[2:19] Speaker 2: the Treasurer courtesy of feedback from other Sturt residents, which
[2:23] Speaker 2: at the very least implements some sort of tax free
[2:26] Speaker 2: threshold to the thirty percent CGT on shares slash ETFs. Now,
[2:32] Speaker 2: I suspect she's not the only one on the Labor
[2:35] Speaker 2: backbench who's worried about this, and of course she's right.
[2:39] Speaker 2: If the idea was to do something specifically about housing,
[2:43] Speaker 2: and that is what we were told, then surely you'd
[2:48] Speaker 2: only apply that the new capital gains tax regime to housing.
[2:53] Speaker 2: But instead, as we know, they applied it to everything.
[2:56] Speaker 2: Because of course, it was never really about intergenerational equity.
[3:00] Speaker 2: By the way, have you noticed that you haven't heard
[3:03] Speaker 2: that line for a good while. Intergeneration equity in the
[3:06] Speaker 2: lead up to the budget was the only thing that
[3:09] Speaker 2: the government wanted to talk about. It's now completely raised
[3:14] Speaker 2: because of course it didn't work. That was the spin.
[3:16] Speaker 2: But the spin didn't work. It was always about raising
[3:20] Speaker 2: more tax revenue, pure and simple, and yet more evidence
[3:24] Speaker 2: that none of this is really any good for first
[3:27] Speaker 2: home bars or would be first home bars. Again courtesy
[3:31] Speaker 2: of the Ods this afternoon, they write with three interest
[3:34] Speaker 2: rate rises putting pressure on landlord's mortgage repayments. Some investors
[3:38] Speaker 2: have flagged upcoming increases of up to fifteen percent to rents.
[3:44] Speaker 2: One Townsville house is advertised at five hundred dollars a
[3:47] Speaker 2: week with a plan jumped to five hundred and seventy
[3:50] Speaker 2: dollars in November, while a Brisbane apartment will rise from
[3:53] Speaker 2: five hundred and ninety a week this month to six
[3:56] Speaker 2: hundred and eighty dollars in Februaryantial planner James Gerard said
[4:02] Speaker 2: that he was seeing investors quote heading for the exits
[4:05] Speaker 2: ahead of an overhaul of capital gains tax, with those
[4:08] Speaker 2: looking to hold choosing to increase rents to make properties
[4:12] Speaker 2: cash flow positive when state enforced rental reviews come around.
[4:17] Speaker 2: The latest data the os rites from the housing researcher
[4:20] Speaker 2: prop track shows that national rents are at high six
[4:24] Speaker 2: hundred and seventy dollars a week after climbing ten dollars
[4:27] Speaker 2: over the June quarter. National real estate firm The agency
[4:31] Speaker 2: has recorded a fifteen percent increase in the number of
[4:34] Speaker 2: investors requesting a sales appraisal of their properties over the
[4:38] Speaker 2: past four weeks. I mean, at what point does the
[4:43] Speaker 2: government admit that it got this wrong, and that this
[4:46] Speaker 2: is doing the exact opposite of what they told us.
[4:50] Speaker 2: It would a stupid question. I suppose they're politicians. They
[4:53] Speaker 2: won't admit or apologize for anything. But Treasury said the
[4:57] Speaker 2: tax changes would add two dollars a week to rents
[5:00] Speaker 2: two dollars a week. They went up by ten dollars
[5:03] Speaker 2: a week, as I just told you, in the past
[5:06] Speaker 2: quarter alone. I mean, this is the great fallacy of
[5:10] Speaker 2: all of this, that if you have rental properties go
[5:13] Speaker 2: up for sale, the tenants will somehow magically be able
[5:16] Speaker 2: to buy them. Well, people are generally renting for a
[5:19] Speaker 2: reason because they can't afford to buy a place.
[5:22] Speaker 3: Now.
[5:22] Speaker 2: They might be a saving for a deposit to buy home.
[5:26] Speaker 2: Hopefully they are, but the majority of people who are
[5:28] Speaker 2: renting today won't have the money to buy a home tomorrow.
[5:33] Speaker 2: They're still saving. Most of them would still have a
[5:36] Speaker 2: lot of saving to do. So when you try and
[5:38] Speaker 2: take properties out of the hands of investors and put
[5:41] Speaker 2: them in the hands of owner occupies, yes there will
[5:45] Speaker 2: be some people who might be able to buy their
[5:47] Speaker 2: first home, but there are many more who can't. I mean,
[5:50] Speaker 2: I've always warned that it risks taking those properties from
[5:54] Speaker 2: the hands of mom and dad investors and putting them
[5:57] Speaker 2: in the hands of even wealthier investors who can potentially
[6:00] Speaker 2: afford to cop the short term losses. But of course,
[6:04] Speaker 2: if you're renting a house and you're saving for a
[6:06] Speaker 2: deposit and your rent goes up, where you're going to
[6:09] Speaker 2: get the extra rent money from? It makes it harder
[6:13] Speaker 2: to buy for your first home, harder to save for
[6:16] Speaker 2: your first home. I mean, none of it makes any
[6:20] Speaker 2: sense except to raise more tax revenue, not to make
[6:24] Speaker 2: it easy to buy home, to make it easier to
[6:28] Speaker 2: tax people. And this one's even better. While we're talking
[6:31] Speaker 2: about the federal government trying to help first home buyers,
[6:35] Speaker 2: people who already own property are using the five percent
[6:39] Speaker 2: deposit scheme to buy homes. I know it sounds ridiculous,
[6:43] Speaker 2: but it's happening. We already knew that permanent residents, so
[6:47] Speaker 2: non citizens, were eligible to apply for this scheme. The
[6:50] Speaker 2: ODDS reported this afternoon that Housing Australia revealed that fifty
[6:55] Speaker 2: four thousand and forty three permanent residents had accessed the
[6:58] Speaker 2: scheme out of a total of three hundred and twenty
[7:01] Speaker 2: one thousand, one hundred and forty one people, but given
[7:04] Speaker 2: permanent residents have only been allowed onto the scheme since
[7:07] Speaker 2: July one, twenty twenty three, at about sixty five percent
[7:11] Speaker 2: of guarantees have gone out since then, the share of
[7:15] Speaker 2: permanent residents who have accessed the scheme since that time
[7:18] Speaker 2: would be greater than one in six, assuming equal distribution
[7:22] Speaker 2: of single and joint applicants before and after July twenty
[7:26] Speaker 2: twenty three, Permanent residents, according to The Australian, would make
[7:30] Speaker 2: up one in four of the successful applicants since the
[7:34] Speaker 2: scheme was opened up. Housing Australia said it did not
[7:38] Speaker 2: have figures about those permanent residence countries of citizenship. Now,
[7:42] Speaker 2: I mean, that's bad enough as it is, but how's this.
[7:45] Speaker 2: Housing Australia says that quote prior property ownership eligibility requirements
[7:51] Speaker 2: relate to Australian property only. I mean, where do you
[7:57] Speaker 2: even begin. We have a first Home Buyers scheme in
[8:01] Speaker 2: Australia designed to help Australians by their first home, and
[8:05] Speaker 2: not only is it available to people who aren't Australian citizens,
[8:08] Speaker 2: it's open to people who aren't Australian citizens who already
[8:12] Speaker 2: own a house in another country. They are not First
[8:15] Speaker 2: Home Buyers. So the Albanezy government pumps up migration to
[8:19] Speaker 2: High Heaven, well more than a million people since they've
[8:22] Speaker 2: come to power, which of course contributes to this housing crisis.
[8:26] Speaker 2: Then they open up the first home Buyers scheme to
[8:28] Speaker 2: migrants who haven't yet become citizens, which obviously disadvantage of citizens.
[8:33] Speaker 2: And then they let foreign property owners get in on
[8:36] Speaker 2: the fund. And you seriously cannot hate these people enough. Now,
[8:43] Speaker 2: you probably saw this story today about an AFL club
[8:46] Speaker 2: that drew up an agreement with a player basically saying
[8:49] Speaker 2: that he would be responsible for any concussions after a
[8:52] Speaker 2: certain date. That was on the front of the Herald's
[8:55] Speaker 2: Son in Melbourne and the Advertiser in Adelaide this morning.
[8:57] Speaker 2: Huge story into big football towns. Now, we learned this
[9:02] Speaker 2: afternoon that that club is Geelong. So basically what happened
[9:06] Speaker 2: is they had a player who'd been warned that continuing
[9:09] Speaker 2: to play put him at risk of long term or
[9:12] Speaker 2: permanent brain damage. He's had multiple concussions. He'd basically been
[9:16] Speaker 2: told by doctors that if you keep going, if it
[9:19] Speaker 2: happens again, you could be in big trouble. But this
[9:22] Speaker 2: player apparently wanted to keep going. Now for a football club,
[9:26] Speaker 2: that obviously opens up all sorts of questions about responsibility
[9:30] Speaker 2: and workplace safety, potentially compensation, all of these sorts of
[9:35] Speaker 2: things right, and in the modern world of awareness about
[9:38] Speaker 2: these things becomes pretty difficult. So Geelong and the player
[9:42] Speaker 2: signed an agreement that he would take legal responsibility for
[9:46] Speaker 2: any subsequent on field brain trauma. Harold Son reported that
[9:51] Speaker 2: the contract also explicitly acknowledged that the player was at
[9:54] Speaker 2: a higher risk due to his concussion history and faced
[9:58] Speaker 2: potentially significant long term or even permanent neurological damage if
[10:02] Speaker 2: he suffered any more head hits. Now the latest this
[10:05] Speaker 2: evening is that this agreement has been torn up. The
[10:08] Speaker 2: AFL and the AFL Players Association put out a statement
[10:12] Speaker 2: a few hours ago that read, the AFL and AFL
[10:15] Speaker 2: PA are aware of a complex and unique case in
[10:18] Speaker 2: which a Geelong player was cleared as fit to play
[10:22] Speaker 2: following an assessment by an AFL concussion panel. The player
[10:26] Speaker 2: then signed a letter acknowledging the potential risk and sought
[10:29] Speaker 2: to waive some potential future legal rights, which was not
[10:32] Speaker 2: lodged with or approved by the AFL or the AFL PA.
[10:37] Speaker 2: Gelong has advised the AFL today that the waiver in
[10:40] Speaker 2: the letter will be removed, noting that the player continues
[10:44] Speaker 2: to acknowledge potential risks. The AFL is satisfied that the
[10:47] Speaker 2: letter was not used by Geelong to allow a medically
[10:51] Speaker 2: unfit player to return to play, and Geelong also released
[10:54] Speaker 2: a statement It read at the time the club was
[10:57] Speaker 2: involved in extensive discussions with a player therefore family and representative,
[11:01] Speaker 2: in relation to that player's concussion history. Those discussions, including
[11:06] Speaker 2: medical advice from the club's chief medical officer and the
[11:09] Speaker 2: AFL Concussion Panel, were documented in the letter signed by
[11:13] Speaker 2: the player. No direction was given requiring the player to
[11:16] Speaker 2: medically retire. The club was not attempting to vary the
[11:20] Speaker 2: terms of the AFL standard playing contract or attempting to
[11:23] Speaker 2: avoid its responsibilities under health and safety laws. Now I
[11:28] Speaker 2: love my assie rules. Many of you would know that
[11:31] Speaker 2: I'm a crows Man, just like the great Chris Kenny
[11:33] Speaker 2: as well, So obviously I'm interested in this as an
[11:36] Speaker 2: AFL viewer. But i want to talk about this because
[11:39] Speaker 2: it's bigger than just AFL. It's also about rugby league,
[11:42] Speaker 2: it's about all contact sports, it's about club sport, on
[11:46] Speaker 2: the weekend. It's about kids sports, it's about school sport.
[11:50] Speaker 2: That your children and grandchildren are in. Concussion is probably
[11:54] Speaker 2: the biggest long term concern facing our major contact sports
[11:58] Speaker 2: Ossie rules and rugby league, and it's about who actually
[12:02] Speaker 2: has to take responsibility for what happens in the biggest
[12:06] Speaker 2: games in this country.
[12:07] Speaker 4: Now.
[12:08] Speaker 2: The immediate response of many in the football world has
[12:11] Speaker 2: been to brand the agreement and abrogation of Geelong's responsibility
[12:15] Speaker 2: to its player. This was former West Coast Eagles coach
[12:18] Speaker 2: Adam Simpson on se And Radio this morning.
[12:21] Speaker 1: From a coach's eye, it's hard to really fathom how
[12:25] Speaker 1: you'd get to the conclusion that this is a good
[12:27] Speaker 1: thing to do and how it goes up the chain.
[12:29] Speaker 1: From a farther point of view and a coach point
[12:32] Speaker 1: of view, I can't see how you accept that as
[12:34] Speaker 1: a the right thing to do for your son or
[12:38] Speaker 1: your player. We all often say is we've got the
[12:40] Speaker 1: players health and safety and welfare at hard as number
[12:43] Speaker 1: one priority is your player health and well banks. So
[12:46] Speaker 1: how does that fall under that? That's probably my first
[12:49] Speaker 1: one And if I'm a dad, I'm going hang on
[12:52] Speaker 1: my son's doing what? So Yeah, that's the the detail
[12:57] Speaker 1: will come. I'm sure I'm really interested to see what
[12:59] Speaker 1: the AA does with this.
[13:01] Speaker 2: The boss of the AFL Players Association, James Gallagher, said
[13:05] Speaker 2: the deal shouldn't have happened. He said the game has
[13:08] Speaker 2: a duty to provide a workplace that protects the health,
[13:11] Speaker 2: safety and well being of players, and all clubs hold
[13:14] Speaker 2: this duty as employers. Clubs cannot, unil actually contract out
[13:19] Speaker 2: of their obligations under the CBA and standard playing Contract,
[13:23] Speaker 2: nor attempt to avoid their responsibilities under health and safety laws. Importantly,
[13:28] Speaker 2: no player is permitted to return to play or train
[13:31] Speaker 2: unless they have been deemed medically fit to do so.
[13:34] Speaker 2: We are in discussions with AFL to better understand the
[13:36] Speaker 2: circumstances of this case and ensure this issue is not
[13:39] Speaker 2: replicated further at the elite level. Of course, some of
[13:42] Speaker 2: that was addressed in that joint statement by the Players
[13:46] Speaker 2: Association and the AFL that I read early earlier. Another
[13:49] Speaker 2: one AFL player agent, Peter jess He said the process
[13:53] Speaker 2: is contracting out the basic legislative safety net for players
[13:57] Speaker 2: in breach of their basic human right to as workplace.
[14:01] Speaker 2: This is the most retrograde step witnessed in any professional
[14:04] Speaker 2: sport for safety and duty of care by an employer.
[14:08] Speaker 2: This walks players back into the dark ages, he says,
[14:12] Speaker 2: of health and safety for profit. But in all of this,
[14:16] Speaker 2: I think we also have to ask what responsibility does
[14:19] Speaker 2: a player take for his own health? Why is everything
[14:23] Speaker 2: the responsibility of the clubs and the leagues, Because concussion
[14:27] Speaker 2: clearly poses a great danger to players in terms of
[14:30] Speaker 2: their health and safety, but it also poses a great
[14:32] Speaker 2: danger to the existence of leagues like the AFL and
[14:36] Speaker 2: the NRL due to potential liability for these injuries and
[14:40] Speaker 2: the desire of parents, of course for their children to
[14:42] Speaker 2: play safer sports where they're less likely to get their
[14:45] Speaker 2: heads knocked. If contact sports are going to keep flourishing,
[14:49] Speaker 2: and I really hope there's never a day that I
[14:52] Speaker 2: can't watch the Adelaide Crows, then the AFL and the
[14:55] Speaker 2: NRL and the footballers themselves will have to come to
[14:59] Speaker 2: terms with the responsibility for concussion and the consequences of
[15:03] Speaker 2: concussion being shared between them. You can't just have one
[15:07] Speaker 2: party taking responsibility for it. It just won't work. I mean,
[15:12] Speaker 2: it could effectively bankrupt clubs if they have to take
[15:15] Speaker 2: all the responsibility. Concussion is the one thing that could
[15:20] Speaker 2: end leagues like the AFL and the NRL for good
[15:23] Speaker 2: as far as I can see, whether that's by financial
[15:26] Speaker 2: ruin because it ends up costing them so much money,
[15:29] Speaker 2: or the inability to create a safe workplace because concussions
[15:33] Speaker 2: are so common now, whether you like it or not,
[15:37] Speaker 2: we have to find a way of securing the sport's future,
[15:41] Speaker 2: and that will in part have to involve players acknowledging
[15:44] Speaker 2: the danger of contact sport. Because while life altering brain
[15:48] Speaker 2: damage is a potential consequence of concussion, concussion itself is
[15:53] Speaker 2: now an inherent consequence of the game. So in all
[15:57] Speaker 2: of this we have to acknowledge that there are two
[15:59] Speaker 2: distinct groups. There are the people who played the game
[16:02] Speaker 2: before the effects of head knocks were properly acknowledged the
[16:05] Speaker 2: previous decades and decades, and those who have played in
[16:08] Speaker 2: an era of broad awareness.
[16:10] Speaker 5: Now.
[16:10] Speaker 2: Those who played when the danger of concussion wasn't really
[16:13] Speaker 2: acknowledged or was perhaps even glossed over can rightly argue
[16:17] Speaker 2: that they were unaware of the dangers and that they
[16:19] Speaker 2: were put in danger and that there were few, if
[16:22] Speaker 2: any safeguards in place to prevent hart. There's a class
[16:26] Speaker 2: action going on against the AFL at the moment on
[16:28] Speaker 2: that very point. But surely any player who hits the
[16:33] Speaker 2: field today does so in the full knowledge that concussion
[16:37] Speaker 2: is pretty much an occupational has it and well aware
[16:40] Speaker 2: of the potential harm it can cause. I mean, you'd
[16:43] Speaker 2: have to be living under a rock to not know that.
[16:46] Speaker 2: In twenty twenty six, head knocks can lead to concussion.
[16:49] Speaker 2: Concussion can lead to brain damage. Brain damage can lead
[16:53] Speaker 2: to all sorts of awful things, you know. We have
[16:55] Speaker 2: examples like Danny Frawley. He was a champion at Saint Kilda,
[16:59] Speaker 2: worked in administration, popular host on Bounce on Fox Footy,
[17:03] Speaker 2: and in twenty nineteen he drove his car into a
[17:06] Speaker 2: tree and died. The coroner ruled his death a suicide
[17:09] Speaker 2: and when his brain was examined they found CTE, which
[17:13] Speaker 2: is a neurodegenerative disease caused by head knocks. His wife,
[17:17] Speaker 2: Anita said afterwards that she strongly suspected there was more
[17:21] Speaker 2: going on with Danny than straightforward depression. I mean, it's awful,
[17:26] Speaker 2: you know, but these are the consequences, the potential consequences
[17:31] Speaker 2: of concussion and head knocks. But anyone playing Aussie rules
[17:35] Speaker 2: or rugby league today. Apart from kids, maybe is now
[17:39] Speaker 2: aware of this stuff, but the clubs and the league
[17:42] Speaker 2: they are equally aware of those dangers. So we come
[17:45] Speaker 2: to the legal problem of who is it fault when
[17:49] Speaker 2: someone sustains a life altering brain injury on the field.
[17:53] Speaker 2: This is how prominent concussion really is in the AFL.
[17:57] Speaker 2: A twenty thirteen paper in the Journal of Science and
[18:00] Speaker 2: Medicine in Sport found that seventy three percent of past
[18:04] Speaker 2: AFL players suffered concussion during their careers. Concussion was the
[18:09] Speaker 2: second most common injury in the twenty twenty three AFL season,
[18:13] Speaker 2: at a rate of four point twenty six injuries per club.
[18:16] Speaker 2: So this is the harsh reality that we have to
[18:18] Speaker 2: face with our beloved contact sports of Ossie rules and
[18:21] Speaker 2: rugby league. Concussion is not a rare and unfortunate workplace
[18:26] Speaker 2: accident in the same way that people use heavy machinery
[18:29] Speaker 2: may occasionally lose a finger. It's very much a feature
[18:33] Speaker 2: and a natural consequence of playing football. Now that we
[18:37] Speaker 2: have all the full knowledge of what concussion can do
[18:40] Speaker 2: to the brain, and we know that there is no
[18:42] Speaker 2: empirically safe number of concussions to avoid problems I mean
[18:46] Speaker 2: for some people, you know, three might do your harm.
[18:49] Speaker 2: Some people might be one and you're in trouble. You
[18:52] Speaker 2: could argue that when an AFL club and the league
[18:55] Speaker 2: sends players out on the field, they are wantonly exposing
[18:59] Speaker 2: them to the dangers of brain damage. It's not just
[19:03] Speaker 2: some players at risk of brain damage, it's basically all
[19:06] Speaker 2: of them. I mean, it is the concussion, the second
[19:09] Speaker 2: most prominent injury in the league. And you could also
[19:12] Speaker 2: argue that the players are well aware of all this
[19:15] Speaker 2: and there's no excuse for them not knowing the dangers.
[19:18] Speaker 2: So they are deliberately putting themselves in harm's way of
[19:21] Speaker 2: their own volition because they love the game and they
[19:24] Speaker 2: make a lot of money from playing it. So in
[19:27] Speaker 2: all of this, who ultimately takes responsibility. I don't think
[19:32] Speaker 2: you can just put it all back on the clubs
[19:33] Speaker 2: in the league. It takes two to tango, and that's
[19:36] Speaker 2: why the sport has to accept responsibility to a point.
[19:40] Speaker 2: But players must also accept that at some point they
[19:44] Speaker 2: are also responsible for their own safety. That's what Geelong
[19:49] Speaker 2: put down in writing. Now they'll be raked over the
[19:52] Speaker 2: calls for it, and people will say it's awful and
[19:54] Speaker 2: all the rest. But when concussion is so common the
[19:58] Speaker 2: second most common injury is the AFL more than seventy
[20:01] Speaker 2: percent of pass players have been concussed, then I don't
[20:05] Speaker 2: see how you can get past this issue. Now, a
[20:08] Speaker 2: fair bit of movement at the ABC today. They've finally
[20:11] Speaker 2: apologized for that disgusting alleged comedy skit about Gina ryan Hart,
[20:16] Speaker 2: and its head of investigations, Joe Puccini, has left as
[20:19] Speaker 2: part of the fallout from this business at four Corners
[20:21] Speaker 2: where they hide and later fared a former bikie than
[20:24] Speaker 2: In the past couple of weeks, they've had to take
[20:26] Speaker 2: down a few of his documentaries because of concerns over
[20:29] Speaker 2: whether the sources were actually real. I'll start with that
[20:33] Speaker 2: short film that referenced missus ryan Hart. Now I don't
[20:36] Speaker 2: really want to play it because I'm sure you've seen
[20:39] Speaker 2: it before and it's disgusting, but I think it does
[20:42] Speaker 2: drive home the point of what we're actually talking about here.
[20:45] Speaker 2: So regrettably, I will show you what the ABC.
[20:48] Speaker 6: Put do here, because when the revolution comes, will you
[20:52] Speaker 6: hide under your bed or will you know exactly how
[20:56] Speaker 6: to shove a stick right off Geena ryan Hart's stirring
[21:01] Speaker 6: it around, nixing her gots up nice and smooth, making
[21:06] Speaker 6: her into one big sausage role.
[21:10] Speaker 2: I still don't understand how they'd ever got to wear
[21:12] Speaker 2: in the first place. I mean, just the fact that
[21:14] Speaker 2: no one at the ABC watched that before it went
[21:17] Speaker 2: to air and thought, hmm, don't really think that's appropriate.
[21:21] Speaker 2: And I have a pretty high threshold for dark comedy.
[21:24] Speaker 2: I don't do PC. I'm not particularly worried about offending people.
[21:27] Speaker 2: But that is just gratuitous. It's not funny, it's just sick.
[21:32] Speaker 2: There's no joke there. It's just fantasizing about it best
[21:36] Speaker 2: the assault of and at worst, the death of a
[21:39] Speaker 2: woman because someone doesn't agree with her politics. I mean,
[21:42] Speaker 2: can you really imagine that the ABC would let something
[21:46] Speaker 2: like that go to wear about a prominent left wing woman?
[21:49] Speaker 2: But smisus Reinhart, so it's open season. It's just foul.
[21:53] Speaker 2: But anyway, the ABC did see fit to put it
[21:57] Speaker 2: to air, and then spent weeks refusing to apologize for
[22:00] Speaker 2: it twenty five days, to be exact, even after the
[22:03] Speaker 2: woman who made the film, Kate McGinnis, offered a half
[22:06] Speaker 2: hearted apology last week, The ABC instead sent it off
[22:11] Speaker 2: to the ABC ombardsman who handed down a stupid ruling.
[22:15] Speaker 2: Today now Fiona Cameron is the ABC ombdsman. She's had
[22:18] Speaker 2: a long career in and around broadcasting. She was on
[22:22] Speaker 2: the Akma, but frankly I find it hard to believe
[22:25] Speaker 2: her finding on this. She wrote, the punchline of the
[22:28] Speaker 2: film is a hyperbolic joke that uses an obviously absurder
[22:33] Speaker 2: impossible scenario that a reasonable audience member would not understand
[22:37] Speaker 2: as a genuine encouragement or threat of violence. However, in context,
[22:42] Speaker 2: the target of the satire appeared to be Missus rain
[22:45] Speaker 2: Hart's public profile and status within contemporary political and economic debates,
[22:50] Speaker 2: rather than her gender. The remarks did not draw upon
[22:54] Speaker 2: gender based stereotypes, nor were they framed in terms of
[22:57] Speaker 2: hostility towards women as a group. I'm not sure anyone
[23:04] Speaker 2: ever said that it was about hostility towards women as
[23:08] Speaker 2: a whole. It was done by a woman, for heaven's sake.
[23:11] Speaker 2: The point was that sick fantasies about doing violent things
[23:15] Speaker 2: to Missus Reinhart were put to air. The only gender
[23:19] Speaker 2: point was that women on the right are treated differently
[23:22] Speaker 2: to women on the left. You can imagine the human cry.
[23:24] Speaker 2: This stuff was said about a woman on the left,
[23:26] Speaker 2: but it was never about women as a whole. So
[23:29] Speaker 2: Mss Cameron's ruling is frankly nonsense. But after waiting all
[23:33] Speaker 2: this time for that strange exoneration, the ABC's managing director,
[23:37] Speaker 2: Hugh Marx, decided to apologize today.
[23:40] Speaker 3: Anyway, everybody should go through the same complaint process. Everybody
[23:44] Speaker 3: is entitled to the same treatment by the ABC, and
[23:47] Speaker 3: ultimately we felt the treatment of miss ryan Hart was
[23:50] Speaker 3: not fair, and so we apologized, and we've added it
[23:53] Speaker 3: and changed the programs. And I think the ABC has
[23:56] Speaker 3: to hold itself to a higher standard, and I think
[23:59] Speaker 3: it's really important we may change. It's also important that
[24:01] Speaker 3: we acknowledge we got this wrong, that we issue the
[24:03] Speaker 3: apology and we make the relevant changes so that it
[24:06] Speaker 3: doesn't happen again.
[24:08] Speaker 2: I mean, why he had to wait twenty five days
[24:10] Speaker 2: for a report to say nothing was wrong in order
[24:12] Speaker 2: to admit that the ABC was wrong, I don't know,
[24:15] Speaker 2: but there we are as Seriously, the first best time
[24:19] Speaker 2: to apologize was never because someone with half a brain
[24:22] Speaker 2: looked at it before it went to air and said
[24:25] Speaker 2: maybe not. The second best time to apologize for it
[24:28] Speaker 2: was the next day. The twenty fifth best time to
[24:31] Speaker 2: apologize for it was yesterday. And I can't really believe
[24:36] Speaker 2: that Hugh Marx hasn't known all along that this was
[24:39] Speaker 2: wrong and that it shouldn't have gone to air, and
[24:42] Speaker 2: that he ought to apologize. It's like, surely he hasn't
[24:45] Speaker 2: just woken up today and magically decided, after all this
[24:49] Speaker 2: time and a hell of a lot of thinking, that
[24:52] Speaker 2: actually that was bad, we shouldn't have done it. I mean,
[24:56] Speaker 2: he's not stupid. It's running a big outfit. I think
[25:00] Speaker 2: he's known the whole time myself. But I think he
[25:03] Speaker 2: was scared of mutiny in the ranks. He was scared
[25:05] Speaker 2: of appearing to throw his staff under the bus because
[25:08] Speaker 2: at the ABC the animals sometimes get to run the zoo,
[25:12] Speaker 2: and he was scared of the internal consequences of admitting
[25:15] Speaker 2: it was wrong. I think he was secretly hoping that
[25:18] Speaker 2: the ombudsman would say it was wrong and then he'd
[25:21] Speaker 2: have no choice but to apologize and would have been
[25:23] Speaker 2: out of his hands so to have plausible deniability with
[25:27] Speaker 2: his staff. But when he didn't get that, he decided
[25:30] Speaker 2: he finally had to pull the pin anyway, particularly after
[25:33] Speaker 2: multiple ministers in the federal government called it out it
[25:36] Speaker 2: it had just become untenable. But I think for mister
[25:39] Speaker 2: Marx that waiting all this time just makes him look weak.
[25:43] Speaker 2: He wasn't prepared to stand up to people within his organization,
[25:48] Speaker 2: and with his silence, he effectively stood by this crap
[25:51] Speaker 2: for as long as possible until he couldn't possibly hang
[25:55] Speaker 2: on anymore. It's really quite pathetic. And the other thing
[25:59] Speaker 2: I mentioned that the ABC's head of investigations is leaving
[26:02] Speaker 2: amidst this scandal at Four Corners now. Funnily enough, at
[26:05] Speaker 2: the same time as mister Marx was on radio this
[26:08] Speaker 2: afternoon apologizing, an email was sent out to staff saying
[26:12] Speaker 2: Joe Puccini would be leaving now. She had oversight over
[26:15] Speaker 2: three Four Corners documentaries by Mahmoud Farzal that have been
[26:19] Speaker 2: pulled because of concerns over the veracity of sources. Farzal
[26:24] Speaker 2: was sacked in May. But seriously, this bloke was a
[26:27] Speaker 2: former sergeant at arms for the Mongols biking gang. You
[26:31] Speaker 2: didn't think he might be a little bit how you're going.
[26:34] Speaker 2: And it got worse on Monday night when Media Watch
[26:36] Speaker 2: turned up details about another source in one of his
[26:39] Speaker 2: Four Corners episodes, who might not be real.
[26:43] Speaker 7: But tonight we're going to raise new questions about another
[26:46] Speaker 7: of Fazzle's mask wearing characters, a so called corporate cocaine slinger.
[26:52] Speaker 7: Given the moniker REMI.
[26:56] Speaker 8: Pleasure.
[26:57] Speaker 2: What does all of this mean to you?
[27:00] Speaker 8: Rolling around in a car like this, living in.
[27:03] Speaker 4: A leafy north Shore suburb, considering how you grew up?
[27:08] Speaker 5: I mean everything.
[27:09] Speaker 7: The alleged dealer claimed to have made hundreds of thousands
[27:13] Speaker 7: of dollars retailing coke to the top end of town.
[27:17] Speaker 8: I realized that working in the corporate world in cocaine
[27:19] Speaker 8: really works well together.
[27:21] Speaker 2: Glad to see dollars, dollars dollars.
[27:23] Speaker 7: Now we've turned up a social media video published by
[27:27] Speaker 7: an unmasked Remy within a year of the Four Corners
[27:30] Speaker 7: going to air, claiming the core of the story she
[27:33] Speaker 7: told on the program was an invention.
[27:37] Speaker 2: The yeah, and I have to say well done to
[27:40] Speaker 2: Linton Besser and the team at Media Watch for uncovering
[27:44] Speaker 2: this stuff now. Ms Puccini said in an email to
[27:46] Speaker 2: staff that she was quote proud of the journalism I've
[27:49] Speaker 2: helped produce and the impact it's had on helping our
[27:52] Speaker 2: audience understand the issues and events that affect them. It's
[27:55] Speaker 2: been an adventure and a privilege to work at the
[27:58] Speaker 2: National Broadcaster and Institut, where I've made lifelong friends. It's
[28:02] Speaker 2: now time for a new chapter in my career. Well,
[28:06] Speaker 2: if I may offer some advice to you, Mis Puccini,
[28:09] Speaker 2: in that new chapter, whatever it may be, try to
[28:12] Speaker 2: steer clear of Bikey's or ex barkis still to come.
[28:16] Speaker 2: The working from home debate has just been handed some
[28:18] Speaker 2: fresh ammunition. One report out of Victoria about office vacancies,
[28:22] Speaker 2: but also a New Zealand politician who turned up on
[28:25] Speaker 2: zoom in a city council meeting a rather strange place.
[28:29] Speaker 2: That's next, all right, and let's get stuck into the panel,
[28:36] Speaker 2: shall we? With me tonight? On the desk here in
[28:38] Speaker 2: the main cave Aderney Media is Lisa Godard and News
[28:40] Speaker 2: twenty four contributor Joe Hildebrand. Good dad took about your mate,
[28:46] Speaker 2: Joe Chris Bien. Oh, great guy, great, great, great lady
[28:49] Speaker 2: like everyone you know, great, great friend.
[28:51] Speaker 9: Of mine, great friend of mine, friend of this when
[28:53] Speaker 9: you're on the lake.
[28:53] Speaker 2: Debt more than fifty grand a week he has been
[28:57] Speaker 2: spending flying around the world talking about climate change. You know,
[29:01] Speaker 2: is the cop CO prices that's right? Ever, it is
[29:04] Speaker 2: so three hundred and forty five grand over forty six
[29:07] Speaker 2: days of international travel, which is fifty two two hundred
[29:11] Speaker 2: dollars per week. I mean some of these trips like
[29:13] Speaker 2: nearly eighty grand on a trip to Brazil and Chile,
[29:17] Speaker 2: fifty one grand China, Hong Kong, India, Sri Lanka, forty
[29:22] Speaker 2: five brand for Denmark, Finland, six Singapore. That's six days.
[29:26] Speaker 9: So why you're saying, what about all the countries he missed?
[29:28] Speaker 9: Got back on there?
[29:30] Speaker 2: Seriously, how do you rack up that much money traveling
[29:34] Speaker 2: around and b why does he need to?
[29:37] Speaker 9: Yeah, well I suppose.
[29:38] Speaker 10: I mean, this will obviously not go down well with
[29:40] Speaker 10: many sky viewers and indeed my beloved readers at the
[29:42] Speaker 10: Daily Telegraph who carried the splash head Quis Bowing paid
[29:46] Speaker 10: for this morning, which I thought was magnificent. But look,
[29:50] Speaker 10: the truth is he holds this international role as well
[29:53] Speaker 10: as his role as a climate change minister in Australia,
[29:56] Speaker 10: and that is just going to involve a lot of
[29:58] Speaker 10: travel and I underst and people say, well, it's all bollocks,
[30:01] Speaker 10: and he shouldn't even have that role. And you can
[30:04] Speaker 10: have that argument, but I think you have to say,
[30:05] Speaker 10: if he is going to have that role, that international role,
[30:09] Speaker 10: inevitably he is going to have to travel a lot.
[30:11] Speaker 10: And yes, for some reason, climate change requires more international
[30:15] Speaker 10: travel than any other than any other portfolio on the planet.
[30:20] Speaker 10: But I think inevitably, if he was going to have
[30:23] Speaker 10: that role, you could say, all right, well he shouldn't
[30:25] Speaker 10: have that role, he shouldn't be wasting his time.
[30:26] Speaker 2: Well yeah, but.
[30:28] Speaker 9: Given that he's got it, of course he's going to travel.
[30:31] Speaker 2: But I think you can't really divorce it from the
[30:33] Speaker 2: fact that he shouldn't have the role. I mean, it's
[30:35] Speaker 2: ridiculous that we would be in a position where we
[30:37] Speaker 2: have to pay all this money for him to be
[30:40] Speaker 2: in charge of a conference that we don't even get
[30:42] Speaker 2: to hold.
[30:43] Speaker 11: Well, you've got tax payers who are paying him to
[30:45] Speaker 11: be flitting around the country. Well, we're being lectured to
[30:48] Speaker 11: about the emissions out of this country.
[30:50] Speaker 12: So it just doesn't add up. Was it seven thousand
[30:52] Speaker 12: dollars for one night's stay in New Zealand?
[30:54] Speaker 2: It's pretty good.
[30:55] Speaker 12: Godness knows what he's where. Yes, no, question, where is this.
[30:57] Speaker 9: I don't think it was the same Airbnb that my
[30:59] Speaker 9: sister say that, but it.
[31:02] Speaker 12: Wasn't just that.
[31:02] Speaker 11: I think under Foy they found out he was nearly
[31:05] Speaker 11: half a billion dollars half a million dollars over the
[31:07] Speaker 11: last so many years that he's spent on travel, and
[31:10] Speaker 11: that's not including staff travel. You know, we don't really
[31:13] Speaker 11: know what he was flying, whether he was all first class,
[31:15] Speaker 11: business class. I'm sure he wasn't crammed into economy, but
[31:18] Speaker 11: it's certainly not doing anything for our power bills.
[31:20] Speaker 2: I have to say, though, I know it's a lot
[31:22] Speaker 2: of money and I don't like that bit. But there
[31:25] Speaker 2: is one good thing is that he's the less time
[31:27] Speaker 2: he spends in the country's less he can spend. It's
[31:31] Speaker 2: just lecturing us right.
[31:33] Speaker 10: Delivering, and think about the money he could make selling
[31:35] Speaker 10: the corners pajamas on eBay.
[31:37] Speaker 9: I mean for itself. I'm glad you finally come over.
[31:41] Speaker 12: We were lucky he was there for the press club.
[31:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know. It's it's a bit like
[31:46] Speaker 2: when Kevin Rudd was sent over to the US, which
[31:48] Speaker 2: of course Albanizy said never, I won't send him over
[31:51] Speaker 2: to the US. But it was good to get him
[31:52] Speaker 2: out of the country for a while, so shut him
[31:55] Speaker 2: up here. And one thing in Melbourne we know and
[31:58] Speaker 2: I don't know whether you've been, you're obviously Melbourne void.
[32:00] Speaker 2: When were you last back there?
[32:03] Speaker 9: Do you know what?
[32:03] Speaker 10: We were back there about at the beginning of the year.
[32:06] Speaker 10: And my wife actually who's from Sydney, actually said, man,
[32:10] Speaker 10: this place is really yeah, this is really decrepit and
[32:14] Speaker 10: it's really felt like that.
[32:16] Speaker 2: It's got that And I've been back a few times
[32:18] Speaker 2: this year. I lived there for eighteen months. But since COVID,
[32:21] Speaker 2: as we know, it's been really difficult for CBD. It's
[32:24] Speaker 2: basically become a weekend city. They actually have more people
[32:27] Speaker 2: going on the weekend to the Melbourne Cebity than they
[32:29] Speaker 2: did before COVID. But during the week it's a lot
[32:32] Speaker 2: quiet than it used to be. And the Property Council
[32:35] Speaker 2: has done the numbers on office vacancies and Melbourne is
[32:39] Speaker 2: the worst in the country. Eighteen point nine percent of
[32:42] Speaker 2: offices are sitting vacant. I mean, how do you have
[32:47] Speaker 2: a capital city, Joe operate like that?
[32:49] Speaker 10: Not only a capital city, but what is going to
[32:51] Speaker 10: be Australia's largest city. Soon, and it's basically a city
[32:54] Speaker 10: without a sab day. And I think, I mean, this
[32:57] Speaker 10: is a town that used to pride itself and it
[33:00] Speaker 10: sort of bustling hospitality sector, it's bustling inner city life.
[33:04] Speaker 10: It's cafes they are now looking at having to shut
[33:09] Speaker 10: down because they're just not getting enough customers coming in
[33:12] Speaker 10: to work. You've got justinner Allen's absolutely more ronic. I mean,
[33:16] Speaker 10: is as stupid a thing as any politician has ever done.
[33:20] Speaker 10: The government just telling businesses that they have to let
[33:22] Speaker 10: their employees work from home, just across the board like
[33:25] Speaker 10: an edict, and it down from Mount SINAI. Ben Carroll
[33:29] Speaker 10: is now saying he's going to review that that might
[33:31] Speaker 10: possibly be an exemption for small businesses, so that would
[33:34] Speaker 10: be something. But again, it just shows all these ideologues
[33:38] Speaker 10: during COVID where.
[33:39] Speaker 9: They were just saying shut down harder, shut down harder.
[33:42] Speaker 10: And these again this sort of upper middle class left
[33:46] Speaker 10: that can afford to work from home because they've got
[33:48] Speaker 10: white collar jobs, often on the taxpayer dime, saying I know,
[33:52] Speaker 10: we're going to work from home forever and ever, and
[33:53] Speaker 10: you end up you end up screwing with forces that
[33:56] Speaker 10: you just don't understand, and you create things, you make
[33:59] Speaker 10: things or break things that you can't remake. And so
[34:03] Speaker 10: of course, the minute everyone's allowed to have a donner
[34:05] Speaker 10: day for as long as they want, they're not going
[34:07] Speaker 10: to be able to go back. They're not going to
[34:08] Speaker 10: want to go back to the office.
[34:09] Speaker 2: This is what I fear, Lisa, and you look at
[34:12] Speaker 2: the feed the last federal election where of course the
[34:15] Speaker 2: cow and a lot of people didn't like that very
[34:21] Speaker 2: much because they like.
[34:22] Speaker 12: That because they're at home and there. That sucks, right, So.
[34:24] Speaker 2: I don't know how being I mean, Ben Carroll can
[34:26] Speaker 2: say I'm going to review this working from home business.
[34:29] Speaker 2: But once you've offered it to people, it's very hard
[34:33] Speaker 2: to take it back from them, and so it becomes
[34:34] Speaker 2: very hard to fix a problem like this, twenty percent
[34:37] Speaker 2: of offices thereabouts in the Melbourne cebity being empty.
[34:40] Speaker 11: So you've got all this empty commercial space sitting there.
[34:43] Speaker 11: But the government has pretty much legislated for that to
[34:46] Speaker 11: be the case because they're not encouraging people back into
[34:48] Speaker 11: the city one bit. And the flip side to this,
[34:52] Speaker 11: if Ben Carroll says, okay, I will look at changing
[34:55] Speaker 11: the legislation and making an allowance for small business that
[34:58] Speaker 11: you don't have to allow your stuff to days a
[35:00] Speaker 11: week to work from home. Well, the flip side to
[35:02] Speaker 11: that is, if you're an employee, do you want to
[35:04] Speaker 11: work for a small business or do you want to
[35:06] Speaker 11: go and join the growing metropolis that is a bureaucracy
[35:10] Speaker 11: that's running that state. It's going to make it even
[35:12] Speaker 11: harder for a small business owner to keep an employee.
[35:16] Speaker 2: And you've already had businesses saying well, you know, why
[35:18] Speaker 2: would we set up or continue to exist in Victoria
[35:21] Speaker 2: exactly when we can just go to another state where
[35:24] Speaker 2: they were, where they won't have.
[35:25] Speaker 10: All these compared to New South Wales where the premier
[35:28] Speaker 10: actually told all public servants that they would have to
[35:31] Speaker 10: return to the office full time.
[35:33] Speaker 2: If only we can get to mister Minstagram and pay
[35:36] Speaker 2: a visit down to Victoria. And while we're talking about
[35:38] Speaker 2: the working from home thinking, you've got to see this,
[35:41] Speaker 2: this is just fantastic, a councilor in New Zealand has
[35:45] Speaker 2: logged on to a council meeting and if we get
[35:48] Speaker 2: the vision up here pops up in the meeting, win
[35:53] Speaker 2: the bathroom. Now you can see that you.
[35:56] Speaker 5: Might want to move your camera. Why you can see
[36:00] Speaker 5: your washing?
[36:02] Speaker 6: Oh?
[36:02] Speaker 11: Okay, interesting, but anyway, please please can you see me?
[36:09] Speaker 2: Yes?
[36:10] Speaker 9: We can.
[36:11] Speaker 6: Oh that's great, Okay, you can see my washing. You
[36:13] Speaker 6: can see me.
[36:13] Speaker 12: It's no problem now.
[36:19] Speaker 2: I mean, on that basis alone, I think we've got
[36:21] Speaker 2: a band working from home. I mean, who the hell
[36:23] Speaker 2: is logging on to do a meeting? Lisa from the
[36:25] Speaker 2: from the bathroom. Someone apparently turned up in the shower
[36:28] Speaker 2: at some point as well.
[36:29] Speaker 11: Apparently trying If you're watch it over and over and over,
[36:31] Speaker 11: you may just pick that. And a lot of people
[36:33] Speaker 11: are trying to work out what underwear was on the
[36:35] Speaker 11: back of the clothesline there. But what I love about
[36:38] Speaker 11: this is you went yeap, okay, well I'm here, you
[36:40] Speaker 11: can hear me, So let's continue on people.
[36:43] Speaker 9: Also, how humorous are councils like? You've got all these
[36:48] Speaker 9: councilors sitting there? Oh am, I can you see me?
[36:53] Speaker 12: But that's how most teams meetings started.
[36:55] Speaker 9: But no one, like, no one even managed to crack
[36:58] Speaker 9: a smile.
[36:59] Speaker 8: No one.
[37:00] Speaker 9: I mean, imagine being in that meeting. I would I
[37:02] Speaker 9: wouldn't be in the bathroom. I'd be jumping out the window.
[37:05] Speaker 2: Well I know, but Lisa, if you were looking on
[37:08] Speaker 2: zoom to come on, you know, PML or another one
[37:10] Speaker 2: of our.
[37:11] Speaker 12: Shirts, you know, having my underwear, what are you going
[37:13] Speaker 12: to have in the back?
[37:14] Speaker 2: I mean you're an image person, right, you work in
[37:15] Speaker 2: pr and this is your day to day. You wouldn't
[37:18] Speaker 2: have your bathroom in the background.
[37:19] Speaker 12: No, Look, it's a rule one.
[37:20] Speaker 11: I want you check what your background is. And I
[37:22] Speaker 11: have to say I was working with a would be politician.
[37:25] Speaker 11: They didn't make it, and we were doing some rehearsals
[37:29] Speaker 11: and behind them on the bookshelf was politics for dummies.
[37:32] Speaker 12: So point I have to look at what's in the
[37:36] Speaker 12: background people. It's really really important. But look, I think
[37:39] Speaker 12: good on it. She pushed through it. It's made news
[37:43] Speaker 12: all around the world. I doubt so she leaked it.
[37:45] Speaker 9: That's the other thing.
[37:46] Speaker 10: If they're so concerned, if the room is so concerned
[37:49] Speaker 10: about her displaying her dirty laundry, clean laundry or clean
[37:53] Speaker 10: launy because it's hanging on the line. Good point, well made.
[37:56] Speaker 10: Why why would you then leak it?
[37:59] Speaker 2: Well so we can talk about it here, which is fantastic.
[38:01] Speaker 10: But I know, but it's like, oh, you know, I
[38:03] Speaker 10: think this would be really good pr for Dunedin counsels
[38:05] Speaker 10: like guys.
[38:06] Speaker 9: I've got a good idea how we can get that.
[38:09] Speaker 12: If only social media people were that smart.
[38:10] Speaker 2: I've seen your background at home when you've done it
[38:13] Speaker 2: for everything, and it's not much better I have.
[38:15] Speaker 9: It points to a very rich life.
[38:19] Speaker 10: Just to look at that in the bedroom, you think, Wow,
[38:21] Speaker 10: that guy's got a lot going.
[38:22] Speaker 2: That's one way to put it. Maybe what you could do,
[38:24] Speaker 2: because you know on zoom you can put a picture background,
[38:28] Speaker 2: it covers it up. Maybe we can sort of AI
[38:30] Speaker 2: something in there. And I took about AI a lot.
[38:33] Speaker 2: I think it's the devil basically, and people think I'm
[38:37] Speaker 2: a luddite for saying it. But there's a new report
[38:40] Speaker 2: from e Y basically saying that if you know, we
[38:43] Speaker 2: go ahead with AI in this country, it'll boost the
[38:45] Speaker 2: GDP by nearly four percent and we'll have more than
[38:48] Speaker 2: a billion dollars of benefit to the economy, etc. At
[38:53] Speaker 2: what costs. I mean, who's making all that money?
[38:56] Speaker 9: Joe?
[38:57] Speaker 10: Yeah, Well, it's going to come for all of our
[38:59] Speaker 10: jobs at one point and another. Everyone in the white
[39:01] Speaker 10: colon I in the white collar sector, and in many
[39:05] Speaker 10: ways I kind of think we deserve it because her
[39:08] Speaker 10: blue collar workers have suffered so much with the previous
[39:10] Speaker 10: Industrial Revolution.
[39:11] Speaker 9: It was those who had to.
[39:12] Speaker 10: Go out and work during COVID, while all the white
[39:15] Speaker 10: collar bureaucrats who are very vulnerable. Way I argued about
[39:20] Speaker 10: not having to go back to the office. But the
[39:22] Speaker 10: really interesting thing is that it's not just all this
[39:25] Speaker 10: virtual world like people think AI. It's not going to
[39:28] Speaker 10: be with all these little nano robots and laser beams
[39:32] Speaker 10: doing stuff that humans used to do. It's actually massively
[39:36] Speaker 10: physically intensive, and so all these jobs that it's creating,
[39:40] Speaker 10: they're all construction jobs. It is all actually building the
[39:43] Speaker 10: physical infrastructure, the data centers to housing, even just the cables.
[39:47] Speaker 10: I hosted a telco.
[39:48] Speaker 11: Not to mention the energy supply, the energy exactly, the
[39:52] Speaker 11: sheer amount of electricity you need, the sheer amount.
[39:55] Speaker 9: I mean, the way that people are having to keep these.
[40:00] Speaker 2: To comment, I've only got thirty seconds, but before the break.
[40:03] Speaker 2: But Lisa, I mean, and that's the point about these
[40:06] Speaker 2: big data centers, right, and they keep putting them up
[40:09] Speaker 2: in the cities. I don't know why they put him
[40:11] Speaker 2: in Northern Territory or somewhere very quickly put.
[40:14] Speaker 12: Them out where they can put the nuclear power station
[40:16] Speaker 12: right beside him.
[40:16] Speaker 2: No, no, we couldn't possibly do that. Lisa got our
[40:21] Speaker 2: Joe Hill the brand, thank you for joining me now,
[40:23] Speaker 2: jins ed and millennials that they're growing tired of swiping
[40:25] Speaker 2: through the dating apps. But apparently AI, which we've just
[40:28] Speaker 2: been talking about, now has the solution to bring people
[40:31] Speaker 2: close to their perfect match. I'm not sure if I
[40:34] Speaker 2: like that. Column plan will be with the next Caleb
[40:40] Speaker 2: Bond in for Paul tonight, and as ever on a Thursday,
[40:43] Speaker 2: it's time to check in with our mate Colum Flynn. Now,
[40:46] Speaker 2: last time I saw column, it was absolutely pouring down.
[40:49] Speaker 2: I forget where you were, Column, but it had been
[40:52] Speaker 2: lovely and sunny until you came on with me, and
[40:55] Speaker 2: then the rains just came down from the heavens. It
[40:58] Speaker 2: was some sort of sign, I believe, but it's not
[41:00] Speaker 2: raining where you are in Washington, not inside anyway. And tonight,
[41:04] Speaker 2: you know it tell us about AI being used in
[41:06] Speaker 2: Tinder to somehow help people find love.
[41:09] Speaker 8: Yeah, Callum, that was a religious event I was at
[41:12] Speaker 8: in Lithuania and the sun was splitting the stones. It's
[41:15] Speaker 8: a minute, I come on with you. The heavens opened up.
[41:17] Speaker 8: So I hope you've repented.
[41:19] Speaker 2: I've tried. I've tried.
[41:21] Speaker 8: I heard you say, yeah, I heard you say a
[41:23] Speaker 8: moment ago that you think Ai is the devil.
[41:25] Speaker 5: So you ain't gonna like this story, callum.
[41:28] Speaker 8: But we we can't deny the fact that dating apps
[41:31] Speaker 8: like Tinder and Bumble and Hinge and Happen and Catholic
[41:35] Speaker 8: Match and Jess White, all of the dating apps. And
[41:38] Speaker 8: by the way, just to mention before we get into this,
[41:40] Speaker 8: before my wife says column, you know a lot about
[41:43] Speaker 8: dating apps.
[41:43] Speaker 5: I'm a happily married man.
[41:44] Speaker 8: This is historical knowledge I got back in the day.
[41:49] Speaker 8: I might not dabble.
[41:50] Speaker 2: Event it's not a case of doth pritist to match column?
[41:54] Speaker 8: No, no, not, of course, I'm going into the long
[41:56] Speaker 8: term memory here. But the crazy stats here in America,
[42:01] Speaker 8: and I think it's the same in Australia that over
[42:03] Speaker 8: fifty three percent of Americans under the age of thirty
[42:07] Speaker 8: have used dating apps, and under the age of thirty,
[42:10] Speaker 8: one in five people in a relationship today met their.
[42:13] Speaker 5: Partner on one of these dating apps.
[42:15] Speaker 8: But here's the thing people always say, they give out
[42:18] Speaker 8: about the process.
[42:19] Speaker 5: The endless swiping.
[42:20] Speaker 8: You know, you download the app and if you like someone,
[42:23] Speaker 8: you swipe right, if you don't like them, you swipe left.
[42:25] Speaker 5: You can pay for super likes.
[42:27] Speaker 8: It it takes so much time, and then you match
[42:30] Speaker 8: with someone, you have a big long conversation, and then
[42:33] Speaker 8: they unmatch with you, or they disappear, or you meet
[42:35] Speaker 8: them and they're not the person that they said they
[42:37] Speaker 8: were in the app, or they're old photographs. But now,
[42:40] Speaker 8: to make things even more complicated, kleb Ai is entering
[42:43] Speaker 8: the game, and this has thrown up so many ethical
[42:46] Speaker 8: questions as well here in the US.
[42:48] Speaker 5: Let me give you an example.
[42:50] Speaker 8: I remember back when I might have used the dating
[42:53] Speaker 8: apps years ago, when I lived in New York. You
[42:55] Speaker 8: could use AI. Then it would scan your photographs in
[42:58] Speaker 8: your phone and it would help you pick the ones
[43:01] Speaker 8: it thought were the best and would give you the
[43:03] Speaker 8: best results of a match. So would use the algorithm
[43:06] Speaker 8: and it's trained intelligence of what worked to say, Look, hey, buddy, column,
[43:11] Speaker 8: you're pasty, white, awful looking Irish guy. You need all
[43:15] Speaker 8: the help you can get. How about we use these photographs. Fine, Now,
[43:18] Speaker 8: when you're chatting to someone, AI can help you form
[43:22] Speaker 8: the sentences.
[43:23] Speaker 5: It can suggest what to talk about. So you could
[43:25] Speaker 5: be a.
[43:25] Speaker 8: Boring old sod, but you're having this really, you know,
[43:28] Speaker 8: intelligent and fun conversation with a girl. But the thing
[43:32] Speaker 8: is she could be using AI to chat back with you.
[43:35] Speaker 8: So then it gets to the point where most of
[43:36] Speaker 8: the conversation they're two computers chatting.
[43:39] Speaker 5: But now here's the thing. I saw it on CNN only.
[43:42] Speaker 8: Yesterday they broke the story where people are saying, now
[43:45] Speaker 8: AI have taken it too far. Tinder have introduced a
[43:49] Speaker 8: feature which is called the Photo Enhance. Now, what it
[43:53] Speaker 8: says it is meant to do, Caleb, is it will
[43:56] Speaker 8: enhance your photographs.
[43:57] Speaker 5: So if they're a little.
[43:58] Speaker 8: Bit soft, it will make them sit sharper, if they're
[44:01] Speaker 8: a little bit dark, it'll brighten them up again to
[44:03] Speaker 8: increase your chances of finding your soulmate. But some users
[44:08] Speaker 8: have found that the AI when they've turned it on,
[44:11] Speaker 8: has completely changed their photographs. There's one clip I'm going
[44:14] Speaker 8: to play for you now, but watch this. It's a
[44:16] Speaker 8: girl called Jenny and her photograph was taken out in
[44:20] Speaker 8: a field at night, so she thought it was going
[44:22] Speaker 8: to brighten it up and she was smiling, but with
[44:25] Speaker 8: her mouth closed like this, AI took someone else's teeth
[44:30] Speaker 8: and put them on her to make her look more attractive.
[44:34] Speaker 2: Look at this, It is a dark photo was taken
[44:36] Speaker 2: at night.
[44:37] Speaker 9: Like maybe they just you.
[44:38] Speaker 2: Know, edited that, but no, they literally took someone else's
[44:45] Speaker 2: teeth and put them on my teeth.
[44:46] Speaker 9: So I loved deleting my account because I was just
[44:48] Speaker 9: like so that.
[44:51] Speaker 4: The biggest red flab for me was the fact that
[44:53] Speaker 4: it was a preemptive editing of my photos and not
[44:57] Speaker 4: a like, hey, this is an option.
[45:00] Speaker 8: That's actually that's actually pretty funny. And there's another user
[45:04] Speaker 8: who spoke to see an end called Jay. He says
[45:06] Speaker 8: that it changed his skin color.
[45:08] Speaker 5: He was a polled. It made it a bit whiter
[45:09] Speaker 5: and brighter to make him more.
[45:11] Speaker 8: Attractive, and it took away his freckles and made him
[45:14] Speaker 8: look like acne scars.
[45:15] Speaker 5: And here's what he said.
[45:18] Speaker 4: My skin wider, and I took away my freendles and
[45:20] Speaker 4: made than acne scars. I don't look like that. I
[45:22] Speaker 4: don't even want to use Tinder anymore. If you feel
[45:24] Speaker 4: comfortable modifying what I look like, what else are you
[45:27] Speaker 4: comfortable in doing?
[45:30] Speaker 2: Now?
[45:30] Speaker 5: Caleb?
[45:31] Speaker 8: Someone like me clearly you know this and people watching.
[45:35] Speaker 8: I can use all the help I can get. So
[45:36] Speaker 8: I would have that. I would say, give me teeth,
[45:38] Speaker 8: give me this, give me you know what, and I hope, yeah, well,
[45:42] Speaker 8: here's the thing. Will let me help you out here.
[45:44] Speaker 8: And I don't want you to get angry. Caleb, you
[45:47] Speaker 8: and I are buddies. But in the name of research
[45:49] Speaker 8: and in the name of this show on News twenty four, yes,
[45:53] Speaker 8: I've created a dating profile for you to eat out.
[45:57] Speaker 5: You're on Tinder.
[45:58] Speaker 8: Listen, I'm looking out for you, buddy. Let's take a
[46:00] Speaker 8: look at the before image.
[46:02] Speaker 5: This is you on.
[46:03] Speaker 8: Tinder, so tweety, it's all accurate. Caleb twenty two years
[46:07] Speaker 8: of age, single and ready to mingle. Okay, that's you,
[46:11] Speaker 8: and I hate to say you were getting no matches, nothing,
[46:15] Speaker 8: So I turned in the enhancement and here's what Tinder
[46:17] Speaker 8: gave me.
[46:18] Speaker 2: Woe look at that. Wow, well done, Colin. I actually,
[46:23] Speaker 2: you know what, maybe I take it all back about AI.
[46:27] Speaker 2: Maybe AI is good after all.
[46:30] Speaker 5: Exactly.
[46:31] Speaker 8: So look, I'm going to leave that profile up here
[46:34] Speaker 8: in Washington, DC and we'll see what happens. But what
[46:37] Speaker 8: do you think, Caleb, Can AI help us meet our
[46:39] Speaker 8: soul mate.
[46:40] Speaker 2: Well, look, if it makes me look like that and
[46:43] Speaker 2: I'm twenty two again, then maybe. But I find it
[46:46] Speaker 2: quite sad because we're just getting further and further away
[46:49] Speaker 2: from reality, right and the apps already kind of do
[46:52] Speaker 2: that to some degree. But if you've got people chatting
[46:55] Speaker 2: to each other on dating apps using AI, so they're
[46:58] Speaker 2: not actually getting to know each other properly, and all
[47:00] Speaker 2: the images of being done up with II are we
[47:03] Speaker 2: living in the real world now or not?
[47:06] Speaker 9: Yeah?
[47:06] Speaker 8: And by the way, calib that was my body they
[47:09] Speaker 8: superimposed onto your face, you know. But you know that's
[47:13] Speaker 8: a great question. When does it turn into AI helping
[47:16] Speaker 8: you along like we use photo filters on Instagram to
[47:19] Speaker 8: when it becomes it's not authentic and it's so far
[47:21] Speaker 8: from the real person, like that girl Jenny said, they
[47:24] Speaker 8: put teeth into her that weren't hers. You know, she
[47:26] Speaker 8: could have teeth going this way and that. Anyway, the
[47:29] Speaker 8: thing is good news. People are starting to get what's
[47:32] Speaker 8: called now dating app fatigue. There are statistics that show
[47:36] Speaker 8: even there in Australia that thirty eight percent increase in
[47:40] Speaker 8: people going to old fashioned singles nights where you meet
[47:44] Speaker 8: people in person speed dating, where you have to walk
[47:47] Speaker 8: across the room, build up the courage actually to say
[47:49] Speaker 8: to someone, look, I kind of fancy you. I'd love
[47:52] Speaker 8: to buy you a drink or take you out. And
[47:54] Speaker 8: studies have shown that girls and guys kind of react
[47:56] Speaker 8: better to that because it shows this person has a
[47:58] Speaker 8: bit of fortitude.
[47:59] Speaker 5: They've couraged. Of course, they've made the effort.
[48:01] Speaker 2: How old fashioned the way it used to be done
[48:04] Speaker 2: chat someone up in a bar. Colin Flynn, thank you
[48:06] Speaker 2: for joining me tonight. I'm sure that I should thank
[48:09] Speaker 2: him after that. To be perfectly honest, after the break,
[48:11] Speaker 2: what happens when your business goes viral and you can't
[48:15] Speaker 2: deal with the demand. I'll show you one small business
[48:17] Speaker 2: has gone viral on a Chinese app. Just for the
[48:23] Speaker 2: avoidance of doubt, if you see a Tinder profile with
[48:26] Speaker 2: big muscles on me, it's not actually me. Just very
[48:30] Speaker 2: quickly before we go, Camden Valley Farm here in Sydney
[48:33] Speaker 2: has gone viral on some Chinese social media app. Right now.
[48:36] Speaker 2: They've got people trying to buy them out of house
[48:38] Speaker 2: and home. They've got people rocking up taking all of
[48:41] Speaker 2: their milk all day every day on an honor system
[48:43] Speaker 2: and people starting to steal now, I mean, come on,
[48:45] Speaker 2: this is why we can't have nice things. That's it
[48:48] Speaker 2: from me. I'll be back tomorrow for the Bond Report
[48:49] Speaker 2: at five pm. Now I normally say the Late Debate,
[48:53] Speaker 2: but tonight it's the Lady Debate and

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.