# Paul Murray Live | 10 June

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 10 Jun 2026, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/89f03443-dd43-4703-9e8d-b46500d6ab75/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

The government has lost control of the illicit tobacco market, Chris Bowen has a new energy target for you. Plus, Jacinta Nampijinpa Price will join the program. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live.
[0:06] Speaker 1: Indeed I will Sharry. We'll take a look at that
[0:08] Speaker 1: in just a moment. Welcome to the man Cave Color
[0:11] Speaker 1: Bond in for Paul this week. Well, the gangsters allegedly
[0:14] Speaker 1: running the cigarette trade in Australia are apparently getting so
[0:17] Speaker 1: brazen now that they're just straight up shooting at the
[0:20] Speaker 1: Border Force. I mean, as if you needed any more
[0:23] Speaker 1: evidence that the government has lost control of the illicit
[0:25] Speaker 1: tobacco market. Lucy's Eelloch and Stephen Conroy are in for
[0:28] Speaker 1: the panel tonight. Chris Bowen has a new energy target
[0:31] Speaker 1: for you. You know that's going to be good news, don't you.
[0:34] Speaker 1: We'll discuss that and plenty more and just s into NAPA.
[0:37] Speaker 1: Jimper Price will be with me a little bit later.
[0:39] Speaker 1: But first let's take a look at the latest figures
[0:43] Speaker 1: on this Fire the Lyre campaign. As we can see there,
[0:47] Speaker 1: it is now inching above one point three million dollars.
[0:51] Speaker 1: What are we up to? One point three three seven
[0:55] Speaker 1: million dollars? And this is just extraordinary. This Fire the
[0:58] Speaker 1: Lyire campaign, of course from one nation, which is in
[1:01] Speaker 1: retaliation for the campaign that Labor has been running on
[1:05] Speaker 1: social media asking people to donate to the ALP so
[1:09] Speaker 1: that they can apparently take on one nation. I mean,
[1:12] Speaker 1: they started this thing this morning. It went up this morning.
[1:16] Speaker 1: They had about five hundred k by midday, and here
[1:19] Speaker 1: we are now one past nine and it is one
[1:23] Speaker 1: point three. It's surpassed one point three million, and now
[1:27] Speaker 1: the goal there now says one point five. It was
[1:29] Speaker 1: one million earlier, so they got past that. They put
[1:32] Speaker 1: it up to one point five. They may well hit
[1:35] Speaker 1: one point five within the time of this program. If
[1:38] Speaker 1: that happens, I'll let you know, but I think it
[1:41] Speaker 1: just tells you how angry people are. I'm not sure
[1:45] Speaker 1: the last time. Obviously, major political parties get donations, but
[1:49] Speaker 1: largely they get big donations from big companies and big benefactors.
[1:54] Speaker 1: I'm not sure the last time a political party of
[1:58] Speaker 1: any size in this country would have seen more than
[2:01] Speaker 1: one point three million dollars flow into its coffers in
[2:05] Speaker 1: donations from just ordinary people in less than twenty four hours. Unbelievable,
[2:10] Speaker 1: isn't it. Well. Other news n zed YQ has read
[2:13] Speaker 1: its ugly head again. Now you are up for tens
[2:17] Speaker 1: of millions of dollars in compensation to people who should
[2:20] Speaker 1: never have been in this country in the first place.
[2:22] Speaker 1: Of course, they say you, because it's you and me
[2:25] Speaker 1: the taxpayer, who ultimately pay for this. And for what,
[2:29] Speaker 1: for the failures of the federal government, we have to
[2:32] Speaker 1: hand over millions to margarants who came to this country
[2:37] Speaker 1: and then committed crimes. Now, if you need a quick reminder,
[2:40] Speaker 1: Nzyq was the name given by the High Court to
[2:43] Speaker 1: a stateless rowing, a man who raped a ten year
[2:46] Speaker 1: old in Australia. He was locked up, but then when
[2:49] Speaker 1: he was released, because he was stateless, no country would
[2:52] Speaker 1: take him, so the government put him in indefinite detention.
[2:55] Speaker 1: They couldn't find someone to deport him to. Now the
[2:59] Speaker 1: court found that that was unlawful, so he and hundreds
[3:02] Speaker 1: of other criminals who for whatever reason couldn't be deported
[3:06] Speaker 1: were released and allowed to roam free again despite being
[3:09] Speaker 1: here unlawfully, and surprise, surprise, some of them have reoffended.
[3:14] Speaker 1: So fast forward to today. Bloke by the name of
[3:18] Speaker 1: Sapphwat abdil Hardy, who also happened to be a friend
[3:22] Speaker 1: and business partner of Bob Hawk by the Bye, brought
[3:25] Speaker 1: a case against the government for false imprisonment. So this
[3:29] Speaker 1: bloke is an Austrian who was born in the Gaza
[3:31] Speaker 1: Strip and came to Australia in nineteen ninety seven, and
[3:35] Speaker 1: he was convicted in two thousand and nine of unlawfully
[3:39] Speaker 1: causing two people to take a stupefying drug with intent
[3:43] Speaker 1: to commit an active indecency against one of them, which
[3:46] Speaker 1: in simple terms is drink spiking. But he later appealed
[3:50] Speaker 1: and the convictions were quashed, so they got a retrial
[3:53] Speaker 1: in twenty twelve where he pleaded guilty to lesser charges
[3:57] Speaker 1: of using poison to endanger life or in inflict grievous
[4:00] Speaker 1: bodily harm, and for that he was sentenced to two
[4:04] Speaker 1: years and eight months, but he was released because of
[4:06] Speaker 1: the time that he'd already served on the previous sentence.
[4:09] Speaker 1: So years then go by until March twenty seventeen when
[4:13] Speaker 1: Peter Dutton, who was then the Immigration Minister, decides to
[4:17] Speaker 1: cancel his visa and then in August he's put in
[4:20] Speaker 1: Villawood Detention Center. Then years after that, the NZEDYQ case happens,
[4:26] Speaker 1: and following that, the Federal Circuit Court rules that abdil
[4:30] Speaker 1: Hardy had quote no real prospect of removal ie the
[4:35] Speaker 1: government couldn't deport him. His lawyers successfully argued that he
[4:39] Speaker 1: was quote medically unfit to fly by aeroplane and cannot
[4:43] Speaker 1: be removed from Australia to Austria because he has heart disease,
[4:47] Speaker 1: nerve damage, deep vein thrombosis and diabetes. So he then
[4:53] Speaker 1: launches a case against the government for false imprisonment because
[4:56] Speaker 1: of course we now have this ruling from the nzed
[4:58] Speaker 1: YQ case that you can't indefinitely lock someone up if
[5:02] Speaker 1: you can't deport them. Now, the government tried to argue
[5:05] Speaker 1: in court that he was detained on the basis of
[5:08] Speaker 1: a previous court ruling from two thousand and four that
[5:11] Speaker 1: ended YQ overturned, so it should be immune from having
[5:15] Speaker 1: to pay damages. But the High Court today found that
[5:19] Speaker 1: that was not the case and he can make a
[5:22] Speaker 1: claim for damages. So now the floodgates will open because
[5:26] Speaker 1: a bloke who was convicted of charges relating to spiking
[5:30] Speaker 1: drinks apparently can't be deported because he has a bad
[5:34] Speaker 1: case of deep vein thrombosis. Now the imparent impediment impediment
[5:39] Speaker 1: I should say to his deportation is that because of
[5:43] Speaker 1: the DVT. He can't get on a plane, and that
[5:45] Speaker 1: is true. If you have DVT, a flying can be
[5:48] Speaker 1: very dangerous. But bear with me here. The first international
[5:52] Speaker 1: passenger flight to Australia was less than one hundred years ago,
[5:57] Speaker 1: and somehow people still manage to Margaret to Australia, right.
[6:03] Speaker 1: I wonder how they did it? Does anyone have any ideas?
[6:07] Speaker 1: Let me think it's boats. Boats. They came here on boats. Now,
[6:13] Speaker 1: last I checked, we still have boats and ships. I
[6:16] Speaker 1: believe people actually pay quite a bit of money to
[6:19] Speaker 1: cruise on them around the world. So if he can't
[6:21] Speaker 1: get on a plane, why can't we put him on
[6:24] Speaker 1: a boat send him back to Austria. And to be
[6:28] Speaker 1: quite frank, I don't really care if he dies of
[6:30] Speaker 1: a blood clot because he came to this country when
[6:32] Speaker 1: he was not a citizen and decided to be a criminal.
[6:36] Speaker 1: You broke the code, spat in the face of the
[6:38] Speaker 1: opportunity we gave you. And what happens to you once
[6:42] Speaker 1: you leave these shores is of precious little concern to me.
[6:46] Speaker 1: But I don't understand why can't we put him on
[6:48] Speaker 1: a boat, take him to Europe, put him in a car,
[6:50] Speaker 1: drive him to his home. But this is also a
[6:53] Speaker 1: problem that the government helped create. I mean, the issue
[6:57] Speaker 1: in the n z Yq case was that in definite
[7:00] Speaker 1: detention of people who for whatever reason couldn't be deported
[7:04] Speaker 1: was deemed to be a punishment, and this punishment was
[7:08] Speaker 1: being administered by immigration officials rather than the courts, which
[7:11] Speaker 1: was found to be unconstitutional. Only courts can hand out punishments,
[7:17] Speaker 1: and the Albanezi government was warned as far back as
[7:20] Speaker 1: twenty twenty two that it was on shaky ground with
[7:23] Speaker 1: this stuff, and yet it did nothing to rectify it.
[7:26] Speaker 1: It did nothing to change the law or to create
[7:29] Speaker 1: another mechanism whereby the courts could make a decision to
[7:32] Speaker 1: detain these people. And so when the Nzyqu case was
[7:36] Speaker 1: handed down, some three hundred and fifty people had to
[7:39] Speaker 1: be let out because of what we and because of
[7:41] Speaker 1: what we now find ourselves in this situation where a
[7:44] Speaker 1: criminal who shouldn't be here can get compensation for false imprisonment. Right,
[7:50] Speaker 1: I'm sure you remember the case. Well, I'm sorry to
[7:52] Speaker 1: have to bring it up again, but this situation is
[7:55] Speaker 1: just ridiculous. We should as a country have the right
[7:59] Speaker 1: to get rid of non citizens who break our laws.
[8:02] Speaker 1: The idea that we had to sort of indefinitely hang
[8:05] Speaker 1: on to foreign criminals and let them wander around in
[8:08] Speaker 1: the community if we can't find an easy way to
[8:11] Speaker 1: deport them is just crap. I mean, who are we
[8:15] Speaker 1: looking after here? Are we looking after foreign criminals who
[8:19] Speaker 1: include murderers and rapists or Australian citizens who ought to
[8:24] Speaker 1: be protected from these thugs. And now because of this case,
[8:28] Speaker 1: every one of these hundreds of criminals could now potentially
[8:32] Speaker 1: bring a case for false imprisonment and ask for compensation.
[8:37] Speaker 1: What a joke? Now that must be day ending? And
[8:40] Speaker 1: why because I'm about to have a rant about elicit
[8:42] Speaker 1: tobacco and I'm sure you know by now that it's
[8:45] Speaker 1: one of my bugbears. But the Border Force has been
[8:48] Speaker 1: out and about in the waters as part of Operation
[8:51] Speaker 1: Maritime Protector, which is regularly monitoring for smuggling and illegal
[8:56] Speaker 1: fishing and piracy and all sorts of stuff. Well, last
[8:59] Speaker 1: week they came across boats that were believed to be
[9:02] Speaker 1: smuggling illicit tobacco to Australia. It's understood that they were
[9:05] Speaker 1: ferrying ilicit tobacco in fast boats from a ship in
[9:08] Speaker 1: Indonesian waters, so you pick it up and then go
[9:11] Speaker 1: and drop it off here. Now, the Border Force wasn't
[9:14] Speaker 1: doing anything specific at this time, as far as we know,
[9:17] Speaker 1: They were just monitoring these boats, and then the suspected
[9:21] Speaker 1: tobacco smugglers opened fire on the Border Force. News court
[9:25] Speaker 1: papers were reporting online today that the ABF patrol boat
[9:30] Speaker 1: was forced to take evasive action with fears that one
[9:33] Speaker 1: of the sailors on board may be killed. I mean,
[9:36] Speaker 1: how good is that We've got people out there just
[9:39] Speaker 1: monitoring the waters and people suspected to be part of
[9:42] Speaker 1: one of the most profitable ventures for organized crime in
[9:45] Speaker 1: this country. They now just openly, brazenly start shooting at
[9:50] Speaker 1: the Border Force. You know, you don't typically see gangsters
[9:55] Speaker 1: just opening fire on the coppers in broad daylight because
[9:58] Speaker 1: they got a bit close to them. Tell you what,
[10:01] Speaker 1: I think, this just shows how confident, how cocky organized
[10:05] Speaker 1: criminals could potentially become with this illicit tobacco kaper and
[10:10] Speaker 1: you wouldn't have to blame them for it. They have
[10:12] Speaker 1: to wonder, why do you, I mean, the federal government
[10:16] Speaker 1: has essentially handed the entire cigarette market over to them.
[10:20] Speaker 1: I mean, they probably just thought it was friendly fire.
[10:22] Speaker 1: They thought, what are you doing getting all up in
[10:24] Speaker 1: my grill? Now I thought we were mates. I thought
[10:26] Speaker 1: you wanted me to sell these dodgy cigarettes. I mean,
[10:30] Speaker 1: you would have seen the story last week. The Bureau
[10:33] Speaker 1: of Statistics now says that eighty percent of the tobacco
[10:37] Speaker 1: market in Australia is now illicit. Eighty percent. It was
[10:41] Speaker 1: just incredible, and the federal government has just continually sleep
[10:45] Speaker 1: walked through this, claiming that it's simply a matter of enforcements.
[10:49] Speaker 1: You know, the tax really has nothing to do with it. Well,
[10:52] Speaker 1: you and I both know by now that if the
[10:54] Speaker 1: illicit packet costs ten dollars and the legal packet costs
[10:58] Speaker 1: upwards of forty dollars because most of it is tax
[11:01] Speaker 1: there's no surprise what people are going to buy. And
[11:05] Speaker 1: these aren't people who you typically call criminals, but they've
[11:08] Speaker 1: essentially been corralled into buying illegal products because the government
[11:12] Speaker 1: has just made smoking so damn expensive. You know, there
[11:16] Speaker 1: was a point where the pendulum just swung too far.
[11:20] Speaker 1: And there probably is some truth to the idea that
[11:22] Speaker 1: taxing cigarettes or tacking it, taxing anything for that matter,
[11:26] Speaker 1: will reduce consumption, but there's clearly a point at which
[11:29] Speaker 1: the tax becomes too much and it stops encouraging people
[11:33] Speaker 1: to give up smoking and instead it drives them to
[11:36] Speaker 1: something else. I'm going to be realistic. There's always going
[11:38] Speaker 1: to be a portion of people who, no matter what
[11:40] Speaker 1: price is set at it, they just never going to
[11:43] Speaker 1: give it up, so they're going to find it elsewhere.
[11:45] Speaker 1: And hence we've had this explosion in illicit tobacco and
[11:50] Speaker 1: an explosion in smoking too. Nicotine consumption increased forty percent
[11:56] Speaker 1: between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty five. And yet the
[11:59] Speaker 1: government keep saying we couldn't possibly reduce the tax because
[12:03] Speaker 1: that'd be a win for big tobacco and it would
[12:05] Speaker 1: be capitulating to the crime games. Well, two points on
[12:10] Speaker 1: that one. Yes, it would technically be a win for
[12:14] Speaker 1: big tobacco, because reducing the tax might encourage some smokers
[12:19] Speaker 1: to stop buying the illicit product and buy the legal
[12:22] Speaker 1: one instead. But let's be real. If people are going
[12:25] Speaker 1: to smoke, and they are going to smoke, and unless
[12:27] Speaker 1: you outlaw it entirely, start locking people up for lighting
[12:31] Speaker 1: up in public, that's the only answer. I mean, would
[12:34] Speaker 1: we rather that they smoked a product made by law abiding,
[12:39] Speaker 1: tax paying companies operating under regulations and standards and sold
[12:44] Speaker 1: in a law abiding, tax paying shop, or a product
[12:48] Speaker 1: made God knows where by God knows who and imported
[12:51] Speaker 1: and sold by organized criminals who don't pay a cent
[12:54] Speaker 1: of tax and use the profits for all sorts of
[12:56] Speaker 1: grizzly stuff like murder and sex trafficking. I mean, you're
[13:00] Speaker 1: telling me that it's preferable for organized criminals to sell
[13:05] Speaker 1: and profit off cigarettes instead of legitimate businesses, just because
[13:10] Speaker 1: they come from an industry that a lot of people
[13:12] Speaker 1: don't like. And I understand why people don't like big tobacco,
[13:17] Speaker 1: but quote unquote big tobacco only makes up twenty percent
[13:21] Speaker 1: of the Australian market. Now, I mean, they don't even
[13:24] Speaker 1: qualify as big tobacco in Australia anymore. The criminals are
[13:30] Speaker 1: big tobacco now. Now, however unsavory big tobacco might be,
[13:34] Speaker 1: and I mean the traditional big tobacco, not the new gangsters.
[13:38] Speaker 1: No matter how many deaths and health problems that big
[13:41] Speaker 1: tobacco might have contributed to, it's only selling a legal
[13:45] Speaker 1: product and at least they're regulated, tax paying businesses, and
[13:49] Speaker 1: surely that is better than criminals. But no, no, no,
[13:52] Speaker 1: no no, we couldn't possibly steer people back towards a
[13:56] Speaker 1: legal and regulated market because it might make a business money.
[14:01] Speaker 1: As I say, choose your poison, the government seems to
[14:04] Speaker 1: be choosing crime as for capitulating to crime gangs, And
[14:08] Speaker 1: the argument is basically that if they cut the tax
[14:11] Speaker 1: in order to reduce the price of legal cigarettes, then
[14:14] Speaker 1: they'd essentially be allowing organized crime gangs to dictate the
[14:18] Speaker 1: price and the market for cigarettes. Well, I hate to
[14:21] Speaker 1: break it to the federal government, but they're already dictating
[14:25] Speaker 1: the price and the market for cigarettes. It's between ten
[14:28] Speaker 1: dollars and fifteen dollars. That's eighty percent of the market.
[14:32] Speaker 1: And you're trying to tell me that cutting the cost
[14:35] Speaker 1: of legal cigarettes to starve the illegal market a little
[14:38] Speaker 1: bit would be capitulating to the crime gangs. You capitulated
[14:43] Speaker 1: to them a long time ago. You let them increase
[14:46] Speaker 1: their share of the tobacco market from twelve percent in
[14:50] Speaker 1: twenty seventeen to eighty percent last year. You let them
[14:55] Speaker 1: set the price that people will pay for cigarettes. You
[14:58] Speaker 1: let them do you out of billions and billions of
[15:01] Speaker 1: dollars of tax. I mean, in Labour's first budget in
[15:05] Speaker 1: October twenty twenty two, they said that this financial year
[15:09] Speaker 1: they'd rake in thirteen point three billion dollars of tobacco tax.
[15:12] Speaker 1: But according to this year's budget, it's actually four point
[15:16] Speaker 1: one three billion, nine billion dollars of tax a year
[15:22] Speaker 1: that they are losing because of this. And now these
[15:24] Speaker 1: suspected tobacco smugglers are laughing at you so hard that
[15:28] Speaker 1: when they see a Border Force boat they just start
[15:30] Speaker 1: openly shooting at it because they feel like they can
[15:33] Speaker 1: do whatever they want, whenever they want. But no, we
[15:37] Speaker 1: couldn't possibly do anything about the thing that's actually driving
[15:40] Speaker 1: all of this, the extortion of tax, because that would
[15:43] Speaker 1: be capitulation to organize crime. I mean, if I were
[15:48] Speaker 1: one of the blokes running these gangs, I would be
[15:50] Speaker 1: sending love letters to the Prime Minister and the Treasurer
[15:53] Speaker 1: and the Health Minister because they have done more than
[15:56] Speaker 1: anyone to improve the fortunes of organized criminals, so much
[16:01] Speaker 1: so that they are suspected to have shot at the
[16:04] Speaker 1: Border Force because why they're not. It's not like the
[16:08] Speaker 1: government stopped them doing anything else. Now, the attempted beheading
[16:12] Speaker 1: in Belfast overnight. Where do you even begin if you're
[16:16] Speaker 1: not up to speed. A Sudanese asylum seeker has been
[16:20] Speaker 1: charged with attempted murder for an attack on a man
[16:23] Speaker 1: on the streets of Belfast in Northern Ireland, and we've
[16:26] Speaker 1: just learned tonight that the alleged attacker has officially been
[16:30] Speaker 1: named as Hardy Allah did now a warning. This video
[16:35] Speaker 1: is distressing. This video was posted to social media of
[16:43] Speaker 1: a man being pinned to the ground in a residential
[16:45] Speaker 1: street having his throat sliced with a knife. That's the
[16:49] Speaker 1: alleged crime in question, and the UK police have now
[16:52] Speaker 1: provided an update. Just moments ago, he began talking about
[16:56] Speaker 1: the violent riots that followed the shocking attack.
[17:00] Speaker 2: Last night was an act of self harm by the
[17:03] Speaker 2: people involved against the incredible communities in Northern Ireland. What
[17:09] Speaker 2: we saw last night was an insult. It was an
[17:12] Speaker 2: insult to the victim of the terrible attack that many
[17:15] Speaker 2: of you will have watched online and that led to
[17:17] Speaker 2: these disturbances. It was an insult to the members of
[17:21] Speaker 2: the public who stepped forward courageously to stop that attack
[17:26] Speaker 2: and the police officers then arrived very quickly to arrest him.
[17:30] Speaker 2: Please please, please, let the criminal justice process take its course.
[17:36] Speaker 2: This morning at Belfast Magistrate's Court, an individual faced the
[17:41] Speaker 2: court charged relation to what we saw online. Let that
[17:46] Speaker 2: follow due process.
[17:49] Speaker 1: We've also learned tonight that the victim lost his left eye. Now,
[17:53] Speaker 1: some reporters said that the alleged attecher was shouting Ala
[17:56] Speaker 1: Huakba in Arabic and God is Great in English. Stage
[18:00] Speaker 1: it is not being treated as a terror attack, and
[18:04] Speaker 1: this is triggered riots all over Belfast, with houses and
[18:08] Speaker 1: cars and buses being satellite. Now I don't need to
[18:12] Speaker 1: point out that rioting is bad, it's thuggery. It shouldn't happen.
[18:16] Speaker 1: But when people rioted against the death of George Floyd
[18:19] Speaker 1: as part of the Black Lives Matter movement, we were told, well,
[18:22] Speaker 1: it's because they were angry, they were sick of racism.
[18:26] Speaker 1: And so I say, these riots are happening because people
[18:29] Speaker 1: are angry, because people are sick of mass migration changing
[18:33] Speaker 1: their country. Doesn't forgive it, but that's what's happening now.
[18:38] Speaker 1: The man charged in Belfast is believed to have traveled
[18:41] Speaker 1: from Sudan to Paris, then from Paris to Dublin and
[18:45] Speaker 1: then into Belfast. In February twenty twenty three by bus,
[18:49] Speaker 1: and once he got there he immediately claimed asylum and
[18:52] Speaker 1: was given leave to remain in the UK in September
[18:56] Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Now there's a lot to come out
[18:58] Speaker 1: in the wash hereives and everything else, but the reality
[19:02] Speaker 1: is that this man would not be accused of trying
[19:05] Speaker 1: to behead someone in Belfast if he hadn't been allowed
[19:09] Speaker 1: to stay in the UK. He wouldn't be there and
[19:13] Speaker 1: he wouldn't be able to commit any alleged crime there.
[19:16] Speaker 1: And that's what people are angry about. They're angry that
[19:20] Speaker 1: someone could be allowed to come into their country as
[19:22] Speaker 1: an asylum seeker, you know, apparently there for a better life,
[19:26] Speaker 1: and wind up allegedly trying to behead someone in the
[19:30] Speaker 1: country that gave him a chance. And that comes in
[19:33] Speaker 1: the context of massive problems in the UK with immigration,
[19:37] Speaker 1: massive problems with social cohesion, massive problems within parts of
[19:41] Speaker 1: the UK turning into ethnic enclaves, and the face of
[19:45] Speaker 1: the nation changing before their eyes. And of course the
[19:49] Speaker 1: case that has been so prominent for the past week
[19:52] Speaker 1: of Henry Novak, who was stabbed and killed by a
[19:55] Speaker 1: Sikh man who then told police that he was actually
[19:58] Speaker 1: the victim of racial abuse, and then the police believed
[20:01] Speaker 1: him over the young man who was dying in front
[20:05] Speaker 1: of them and warning. The footage that I'm about to
[20:07] Speaker 1: play is distressing.
[20:11] Speaker 2: You're stabbed whereabouts.
[20:15] Speaker 1: That's hungry. Put the hand in the cuff, mate, I
[20:26] Speaker 1: don't think you have mate. Every time I watched that footage,
[20:29] Speaker 1: it just makes my blood boil. You know, You've got
[20:33] Speaker 1: a young man there who's now dead, telling police that
[20:37] Speaker 1: he's been stabbed and he can't breathe, and the police
[20:41] Speaker 1: are more concerned about the fact that his attacker said, well,
[20:46] Speaker 1: I was racially abused for which there is no evidence.
[20:50] Speaker 1: I mean, it's just racism, pure and simple. And this
[20:54] Speaker 1: is what people are angry about. You know, people are
[20:57] Speaker 1: seeing this stuff happen in their country and they won't
[21:00] Speaker 1: cop it anymore. That's why reform is doing so well
[21:03] Speaker 1: in the UK. It's why one nation is doing so
[21:07] Speaker 1: well here. They are sick of mass migration and how
[21:10] Speaker 1: it is changing their country and how it is changing
[21:13] Speaker 1: the way they behave and the way that the police
[21:15] Speaker 1: behave and way that everyone else is expected to behave.
[21:18] Speaker 1: Is rioting the way to show that anger. No, but
[21:22] Speaker 1: people are angry and they have a right to be angry.
[21:25] Speaker 1: They feel betrayed by their politicians. They feel like their
[21:28] Speaker 1: leaders are working against them, not with them, and they're
[21:32] Speaker 1: not going to cop it anymore. I'll talk more about
[21:35] Speaker 1: it with the panel later. Now. Last night was the
[21:38] Speaker 1: Australian Football Hall of Fame dinner that is Ozzie Rules. Now,
[21:42] Speaker 1: this is typically a night for the best of the best,
[21:44] Speaker 1: as you'd expect for a Hall of Fame dinner, but
[21:46] Speaker 1: I must say I was surprised by some of the
[21:49] Speaker 1: attendees and also the lack thereof. For instance, Mike Sheehan,
[21:53] Speaker 1: who's the former chief footy writer at The Herald's Sun
[21:56] Speaker 1: and has been a host on Fox Footye. In fact,
[21:58] Speaker 1: he was one of the foundings of the Australian Football
[22:02] Speaker 1: Hall of Fame in nineteen ninety six. He would be
[22:04] Speaker 1: well known to anyone who follows Ozzie Rules. He didn't
[22:07] Speaker 1: get an invitation. He told The Herald's son that it
[22:10] Speaker 1: was the first time he hadn't been to one. He said,
[22:13] Speaker 1: not only can I not get in, but I can't
[22:15] Speaker 1: get invited either. I think the original selection group should
[22:18] Speaker 1: have the option to say I'll go or I'll decline
[22:22] Speaker 1: nothing is as obsolete as yesterday's man. Ouch, but maybe
[22:27] Speaker 1: he should have come out as bisexual because one man
[22:30] Speaker 1: who was invited was Mitch Brown. Now, Mitch Brown was
[22:34] Speaker 1: an average footballer. He played ninety four games for West Coast,
[22:38] Speaker 1: He kicked thirteen goals and was beset with injuries for
[22:42] Speaker 1: a fair bit of his playing career, and everyone had
[22:44] Speaker 1: more or less forgotten about him until last year when
[22:48] Speaker 1: he came out as bisexual. I mean, this is so
[22:51] Speaker 1: much more than coming out as a bisexual man. For me,
[22:56] Speaker 1: Ridg Brown is more than a footballer.
[22:57] Speaker 3: He's a til blazer, a role model, and that the
[23:00] Speaker 3: most powerful victories are not always one on the squareboard,
[23:03] Speaker 3: they're one in the hearts of those who finally feel seen.
[23:06] Speaker 1: Visibility matters.
[23:07] Speaker 3: It does seeing was rainbow colors for a young queer person,
[23:13] Speaker 3: it matters.
[23:14] Speaker 1: Now good for him. I don't particularly care if he's
[23:17] Speaker 1: gay or straight, or bisexual or whatever, but the significance
[23:21] Speaker 1: was that he was the first man in the AFL
[23:23] Speaker 1: to come out as anything. The AFL has never had
[23:25] Speaker 1: an openly gay player AFL men's I should say there's
[23:30] Speaker 1: plenty of lesbians in the women's game, but a man
[23:32] Speaker 1: has never come out as an AFL player and said
[23:35] Speaker 1: I'm gay. So the closest we've had is Mitch Brown
[23:39] Speaker 1: coming out as bisexual. Again, I don't particularly care, but
[23:43] Speaker 1: he's been lauded as brave and made a bit of
[23:46] Speaker 1: a poster boy in all the rest. So he gets
[23:48] Speaker 1: a gig to the Hall of Fame dinner, which he
[23:50] Speaker 1: attends with his pregnant girlfriend. Is dating a woman, not
[23:54] Speaker 1: a man, But have a look at what he's wearing.
[23:57] Speaker 1: He's turned up to a black tie dinner in a
[24:00] Speaker 1: fish net top, and apparently this was a really important
[24:04] Speaker 1: moment for him. He said, owning your identity is expressing
[24:09] Speaker 1: yourself even in these traditional settings. To go and reclaim
[24:13] Speaker 1: who you are is really empowering. I feel great coming
[24:17] Speaker 1: back to these spaces and being who I am and
[24:20] Speaker 1: not wearing what you're meant to wear is all part
[24:22] Speaker 1: of my self expression. Dipper came up to me and said,
[24:25] Speaker 1: I wish I could wear that. Really, who you really
[24:30] Speaker 1: are is a person who thinks it's appropriate to wear
[24:34] Speaker 1: a fish net top to a black tie dinner. I'm sorry,
[24:39] Speaker 1: but that's not empowerment or being who you are. It's
[24:42] Speaker 1: just a tension seeking and rude. Black tie is a
[24:45] Speaker 1: dress code for everyone, gay, straight, bisexual, black, white, brindle whatever.
[24:51] Speaker 1: The same applies to everyone. But oh no, I'm special,
[24:55] Speaker 1: So I am going to rock up in fish net.
[24:58] Speaker 1: I mean, you can be yourself quote quote anywhere that
[25:01] Speaker 1: there's not a dress code. You don't rock up to
[25:04] Speaker 1: an event like that dressed like that. I mean, just
[25:07] Speaker 1: show a bit of respect to everyone around you. But
[25:11] Speaker 1: I guess he's enjoying the attention of his new burst
[25:14] Speaker 1: of fame and here I am talking about it. So
[25:17] Speaker 1: there you are. You know, I'm bisexual, like rock up
[25:20] Speaker 1: in whatever. Unbelievable. After the break the panel, Lucy Zelich
[25:24] Speaker 1: and Stephen Conroy plenty to discuss, including Stephen trying to
[25:28] Speaker 1: defend the Prime Minister's recent performance, and of course that
[25:31] Speaker 1: that you can see on your screen right there. One
[25:34] Speaker 1: nation on its way to raising one and a half
[25:37] Speaker 1: million bucks in a single day. More on that in
[25:40] Speaker 1: a sect. Caleb Bond in for Paul this week, join
[25:47] Speaker 1: him in our former Labor Minister Stephen Conroy and broadcaster
[25:51] Speaker 1: Lucy's Zielich. Good to see you both. Hello, fire the liar.
[25:55] Speaker 1: I mean, this is just extraordinary. Isn't. I think we'll
[25:58] Speaker 1: get the website back up here. Last we saw it,
[26:01] Speaker 1: it ticked over one point three million, where we our
[26:05] Speaker 1: one point three. Hang on, we'll wait for that to
[26:08] Speaker 1: tickle through one point three, well nearly one point four.
[26:16] Speaker 1: Every time we refresh this thing, the number just keeps
[26:18] Speaker 1: on going up. I mean, Lucy, they started this thing
[26:21] Speaker 1: this morning.
[26:21] Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, this has been entertaining. If nothing else,
[26:24] Speaker 3: regardless of which side of the aisle you sit on politically,
[26:27] Speaker 3: it has been so fun to watch this absolute, I
[26:31] Speaker 3: guess slap in the face to the Labor Party and
[26:33] Speaker 3: what they tried to do when they initiated their call
[26:36] Speaker 3: out to Australians. And I think a lot of people
[26:38] Speaker 3: are trying to weaponize it now Caleb and say that, well,
[26:41] Speaker 3: oh well, she slammed them and said that they were
[26:43] Speaker 3: disgusting for doing it.
[26:44] Speaker 4: But now she's doing the same thing.
[26:46] Speaker 1: Now.
[26:46] Speaker 4: She slammed a.
[26:47] Speaker 3: Government who are already pillaging the Australian people and have
[26:50] Speaker 3: bled them dry enough and said that they were disgusting.
[26:54] Speaker 3: Now she's in a situation where her and James Ashby.
[26:57] Speaker 4: Hats off to him, he's a fantastic political operator.
[27:00] Speaker 3: Were able to weaponize, weaponize this, turn it on its
[27:03] Speaker 3: head and play them at their own game.
[27:05] Speaker 1: Fantastic, you know, if you haven't beat them and joined them. Basically,
[27:08] Speaker 1: I suppose, Stephen, I mean, is this you would you
[27:11] Speaker 1: may well know obviously having been involved with the Labor
[27:13] Speaker 1: Party for a long time, are you aware of a
[27:15] Speaker 1: political party raising you know, this sort of money out
[27:18] Speaker 1: of just individual donors in a day? Obviously, you know
[27:22] Speaker 1: political parties get big donations from corporates and you know,
[27:25] Speaker 1: billionaires and whatever. But to see if any use, is
[27:29] Speaker 1: this an unusual thing to happen?
[27:31] Speaker 5: Jana Ryan Hart. Look, I think the technology and I
[27:35] Speaker 5: saw James's interview earlier tonight, the technology has advanced in
[27:39] Speaker 5: such a way now that it's possible to see in
[27:42] Speaker 5: real time as it happens. So, you know, congratch to
[27:46] Speaker 5: the One Nation team who've put together the architecture and
[27:50] Speaker 5: the cleverness to use. I think Peter Gradlin was justified
[27:55] Speaker 5: with broclaiming some credit. I think she was lamenting that
[27:58] Speaker 5: One Nation picked it up first, went with it before
[28:00] Speaker 5: the Liberal Party could get their act together. But yeah,
[28:04] Speaker 5: good luck to good luck to James, and the One
[28:06] Speaker 5: Nation team has done well. And you know, I'm sure
[28:10] Speaker 5: there'll be lots more back onds and forwards between now
[28:13] Speaker 5: and the election.
[28:13] Speaker 1: I'm sure there will be. But I mean, it's the
[28:15] Speaker 1: reason all this has happened is because, of course Labor
[28:18] Speaker 1: was running its own campaign on social media to try
[28:21] Speaker 1: and get people to donate. I don't know, do you know, Stephen,
[28:23] Speaker 1: has that been anywhere near as successful as this so far.
[28:29] Speaker 5: Look, I'm not plugged different in enough to the party
[28:33] Speaker 5: at a national.
[28:34] Speaker 1: Estate level on there how much they're.
[28:37] Speaker 5: Raising my own well, as James Ashby himself said, obviously
[28:43] Speaker 5: Labor's back end of its IT network doesn't work in
[28:47] Speaker 5: the same way. But my original understanding was that it
[28:51] Speaker 5: started off as an email to Labor Party branch members
[28:56] Speaker 5: and it may then have gone wider, But I don't
[28:59] Speaker 5: think there's a there's an IT system behind it that
[29:02] Speaker 5: allows instantaneous reporting the way that the entertaining watching how
[29:07] Speaker 5: much the money is growing. So, as I said, good
[29:11] Speaker 5: luck to James and the One Nation team.
[29:14] Speaker 1: Well, you know, the Labor Party is one of the
[29:16] Speaker 1: great survivors of the political world in this country. You
[29:18] Speaker 1: think they'd be able to get across this sort of
[29:20] Speaker 1: stuff and working out with themselves.
[29:23] Speaker 3: Show that they've finally cobbled together maybe a couple of dollars.
[29:26] Speaker 1: Well, who know they wanted twenty seven dollars. I think
[29:29] Speaker 1: one nation's asking for twenty nine. But you know, people
[29:31] Speaker 1: are digging into their pockets because they don't like what
[29:34] Speaker 1: they're seeing. And it is also a fair point to
[29:36] Speaker 1: say they are donating to one nation and not to
[29:38] Speaker 1: the Liberal Party. I suspect the Liberal Party has not
[29:40] Speaker 1: seen a surge in their donations tonight. While we're talking
[29:43] Speaker 1: about the Prime Minister Stephen, of course in Copacabana, where
[29:48] Speaker 1: he bought himself that cliff top mansion, which by the way,
[29:50] Speaker 1: I don't begrudge him doing. I don't want to get
[29:52] Speaker 1: into the business of class envy. But some people around
[29:57] Speaker 1: his place I don't seem to be terribly happy. There's
[30:00] Speaker 1: all these signs popping up, stickers being put on the
[30:04] Speaker 1: fifty kilometer our signs with his face saying fifty lies
[30:09] Speaker 1: because of course, you know, for the fiftieth time he
[30:11] Speaker 1: told us that there would be no changes to negative
[30:14] Speaker 1: gearing or capital gains text.
[30:15] Speaker 5: Stephen, look, I think again, clever, I'm not sure people
[30:22] Speaker 5: will quite understand it. In the same way as the
[30:25] Speaker 5: very catchy one Nation slogan, not enough people will have
[30:31] Speaker 5: watched the repeat and repeat and repeat. Unfortunately, not everyone
[30:34] Speaker 5: watches us here tonight. Well they are, but not everyone
[30:38] Speaker 5: will understand the fifty lie. It's a different issue. I
[30:41] Speaker 5: just don't think enough people will understand it, so it
[30:44] Speaker 5: may take a little bit longer for it to catch
[30:46] Speaker 5: on and bring a chuckle.
[30:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, but don't you think that it shows though that
[30:49] Speaker 1: people are upset, you know, they're not happy with the
[30:52] Speaker 1: way things have gone. Steven, how can you defend it?
[30:59] Speaker 5: Well? As I've said since Budget night, the government absolutely
[31:04] Speaker 5: knew that it would lose some paint by breaking a
[31:07] Speaker 5: promise in the way that it shifted its policy. So
[31:11] Speaker 5: the government obviously took that into account. It had good reasons,
[31:15] Speaker 5: it believes to change the tax system despite the promise
[31:19] Speaker 5: before the election and the calculation was made. So I
[31:25] Speaker 5: think they are going to continue to make the case
[31:28] Speaker 5: why the changes will help in the housing market, coupled
[31:32] Speaker 5: with the other changes we've made previously, so it's not
[31:35] Speaker 5: just a one off thing. And I think that younger
[31:39] Speaker 5: Australians are actually more supportive than you realize in terms
[31:44] Speaker 5: of they think the.
[31:45] Speaker 4: Sysance were you speaking to?
[31:47] Speaker 3: Which young Australians are you speaking to that are supportive
[31:51] Speaker 3: of this?
[31:51] Speaker 4: Please tell us.
[31:54] Speaker 3: No.
[31:56] Speaker 5: I appreciate a lot of the media at the moment
[31:59] Speaker 5: is trying to highlight the aspirational damage that's been done.
[32:05] Speaker 5: But you know, something like ninety to ninety five percent
[32:08] Speaker 5: of Australian's got no capital gains. We're talking about under
[32:12] Speaker 5: say thirty have got no capital gains. Visual statistics freely
[32:17] Speaker 5: available to you loosely.
[32:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, no, no, I'm not talking about any of that.
[32:21] Speaker 4: I'm talking about.
[32:22] Speaker 3: Which young people you specifically pointed to speaking to?
[32:26] Speaker 4: What have they said to you?
[32:29] Speaker 5: Well, if you look at the polls that have come
[32:31] Speaker 5: out since the election, Labour's vote has not moved that much.
[32:36] Speaker 5: In the last one it was When did you last
[32:38] Speaker 5: check a post twenty nine?
[32:41] Speaker 1: Oh?
[32:41] Speaker 5: I checked them pretty regularly, Lucy. But as I said,
[32:44] Speaker 5: if you'd like to read any Australian Bureau of Statistics
[32:47] Speaker 5: or Tax Office statistics.
[32:49] Speaker 3: Which I do, but I'm not talking about statistics. I'm
[32:52] Speaker 3: talking about because you always tell me that I need
[32:54] Speaker 3: to get out more and speak to people. I want
[32:57] Speaker 3: but I want you to point to the like, what
[32:59] Speaker 3: are the young people saying to you.
[33:01] Speaker 4: I'm speaking to young people. I'm speaking to young.
[33:02] Speaker 3: People who actually told me who were my age, that said,
[33:05] Speaker 3: I'm consigned to the fact, Lucy, that we're going to
[33:07] Speaker 3: be renters forever. We've started a young family, we can't
[33:10] Speaker 3: afford to get into the market, and that this isn't going.
[33:12] Speaker 5: To sign before Well, they are consigned by the current
[33:19] Speaker 5: system to being renters for life, if that's correct. I'm
[33:22] Speaker 5: not denying that that was a conversation I had. The
[33:24] Speaker 5: current system is broken, it's stacked against them, and.
[33:28] Speaker 3: This isn't going to fix it.
[33:30] Speaker 4: Are not going to fix it?
[33:32] Speaker 5: Steve can I ask you see demand demand usually wins.
[33:40] Speaker 1: So on the issue of supply and demand, you obviously
[33:43] Speaker 1: will now have if you want to be an investor
[33:45] Speaker 1: in the property market and you want a negative leaky
[33:49] Speaker 1: you have to buy a new build, and the subsidies
[33:52] Speaker 1: in whatever that exists for first home buyers also encourage
[33:55] Speaker 1: them to go and buy a new build. So do
[33:57] Speaker 1: you not end up with more people swim around in
[34:00] Speaker 1: a smaller market and by the laws of supply and demand,
[34:04] Speaker 1: that will increase the price of new builds.
[34:09] Speaker 5: Well, if you want to take one part of supply
[34:12] Speaker 5: and demand and ignore the supply side that labor has
[34:15] Speaker 5: been working through and.
[34:18] Speaker 1: The budgets doesn't happen.
[34:21] Speaker 4: Four hundreds of homes that they've built into.
[34:26] Speaker 5: Cheap and all cheap and all cheap and lazy lines
[34:30] Speaker 5: cheap and lazy.
[34:33] Speaker 3: Lazy about the fact you told me look at the
[34:35] Speaker 3: ABS statistics.
[34:36] Speaker 4: Now these statistics don't matter.
[34:38] Speaker 5: Cheap and lazy, trying to pretend, trying to pretend that
[34:42] Speaker 5: there's no housing coming through when there's a massive program
[34:46] Speaker 5: of building that is in the pipeline, and pretending you've
[34:49] Speaker 5: only built one.
[34:50] Speaker 1: There's no slower. It's slower than it's slower than it's
[34:55] Speaker 1: meant to be. You know, it's slower than No, no,
[34:58] Speaker 1: it's no one saying housing steep.
[35:00] Speaker 5: That it's a fair comment.
[35:02] Speaker 1: But it's slower than it's meant to be.
[35:03] Speaker 5: And under the pagent, because there's only been the.
[35:06] Speaker 1: Changes in the budget, will actually four hundred, it will
[35:10] Speaker 1: actually it'll actually be slow to move one hundred. You've
[35:13] Speaker 1: got to move on to talk about some other things,
[35:15] Speaker 1: otherwise we'll get stuck here all night. By the way,
[35:17] Speaker 1: you might have seen on the screen before the strap
[35:20] Speaker 1: came up at the bottom there that they've now ticked
[35:22] Speaker 1: over to one point four million on that fundraiser for
[35:25] Speaker 1: one nation. So we will keep an eye on that
[35:27] Speaker 1: as the night progresses. And one of the other things
[35:29] Speaker 1: going on another one of Steven's mate, Chris Bowen Lucy,
[35:34] Speaker 1: he's jet setting at the moment. He's all over the world.
[35:37] Speaker 1: He has been over in Europe for a European Summer.
[35:40] Speaker 1: The lucky bugger of course, because he's now one of
[35:42] Speaker 1: these cop presidents, right even though we're not hosting it.
[35:45] Speaker 4: One hundred and forty eight million dollars to not host.
[35:47] Speaker 3: How fantastic isn't that? He's great savings under this government.
[35:51] Speaker 1: He's now backed Innner as part of this gig that
[35:54] Speaker 1: a third of the world's energy must be supplied by
[35:57] Speaker 1: electricity by twenty thirty five. Now, I always find it extraordinary.
[36:02] Speaker 1: It's all good and well for people in the West
[36:04] Speaker 1: to say we might be able to do that. What
[36:07] Speaker 1: about the rest of the world. I mean, are we
[36:09] Speaker 1: just going to cut them off? And you say, oh, well,
[36:12] Speaker 1: good luck to you. Let's see you give your third.
[36:15] Speaker 1: Because the only countries that could feasibly even do something
[36:18] Speaker 1: like that are in the West. So we've got to
[36:20] Speaker 1: pay through the nose and force people to pay lots
[36:22] Speaker 1: of money to do this, and everyone else wore who knows,
[36:25] Speaker 1: I don't keep omitting.
[36:26] Speaker 3: We've thrown billions and billions of dollars at this effort
[36:29] Speaker 3: to try and reduce the global temperatures by what is
[36:32] Speaker 3: it a one and a half degrees celsius, and it's
[36:35] Speaker 3: failed countries. Now it's shown that they have failed consistently
[36:40] Speaker 3: over several quarters to meet their targets. So what is
[36:45] Speaker 3: the point of this exercise of playing god and thinking
[36:48] Speaker 3: that we can control the weather.
[36:50] Speaker 4: All it's done is jack.
[36:51] Speaker 3: Up the prices of our electricity bills, which you've seen
[36:53] Speaker 3: consistently on the increase under this renewables only style plan.
[36:58] Speaker 3: And a lot of these economies that are doing well
[37:01] Speaker 3: are actually fueled by nuclear and it's the elephant in
[37:04] Speaker 3: the room. And we've been banging on about it here
[37:06] Speaker 3: at skuy for how long. Now about just lift the
[37:08] Speaker 3: dam moratorium. Let's start having sensible and honest conversations about
[37:11] Speaker 3: our pathways forward with respect to energy. But yet we
[37:15] Speaker 3: have a government here, particularly under the stewardship of Chris Bowen,
[37:18] Speaker 3: who is hell bent on not just destroying the beautiful
[37:21] Speaker 3: land that we have with these transmission lines and seeing
[37:24] Speaker 3: that this is not a reliable and stable form.
[37:26] Speaker 4: Of energy going forward.
[37:28] Speaker 3: But that is just impervious to the facts and the
[37:31] Speaker 3: fact that you've got some of the top performing economies
[37:34] Speaker 3: in the world. Even the United States of America, the Democrats,
[37:38] Speaker 3: the Lunatic Democrats, have all agreed and shown by partisan
[37:41] Speaker 3: support for nuclear, but we still continue to live in
[37:44] Speaker 3: this fantasy.
[37:45] Speaker 4: I mean, it's embarrassing for us as a.
[37:47] Speaker 1: Nation another climate target, Stephen, because all the other ones
[37:51] Speaker 1: have gone so well.
[37:54] Speaker 5: Well, Look, Australia is making good progress and the transition
[37:59] Speaker 5: to renewable energy. It wasn't a labor government that sat
[38:03] Speaker 5: there and watched all these cul fire powers stations closed down.
[38:06] Speaker 5: In fact, I remember Matt Canaveran and Barnaby and a
[38:09] Speaker 5: whole bunch of Liberal saying we're going to have more
[38:11] Speaker 5: cul fired power stations, and not one was built in
[38:15] Speaker 5: the nine years that they were there. Tony Abbott signed
[38:18] Speaker 5: up to Paris, Scott Morrison signed up to Paris. Malcolm
[38:24] Speaker 5: Turnbull was a champion in the New South Wales Liberal government.
[38:27] Speaker 5: Matt Keane signed up to do it.
[38:30] Speaker 3: And you know, Laura now your mate are continuing to
[38:33] Speaker 3: perpetuate this nonsense. Just be honest, you can keep I
[38:37] Speaker 3: love how we continuously and foot and your criticisms of
[38:40] Speaker 3: you of the predecessors are fine and just and warranted.
[38:45] Speaker 3: But what is it that this government is doing to
[38:48] Speaker 3: arrest the bleed financially that this current country is going
[38:52] Speaker 3: this country is going through now.
[38:54] Speaker 4: With respect to this pursuit of the green dream.
[38:59] Speaker 5: Your mistake is that wasn't criticizing. I was simply pointing
[39:01] Speaker 5: out the facts that that transition has been going on
[39:05] Speaker 5: for ten years okay, started by labor originally, and then
[39:09] Speaker 5: ten years of Liberal coalition continuing the transition. And we've
[39:16] Speaker 5: continued and we've had a consistent position that we want
[39:19] Speaker 5: to see the movement to renewals. But I just with Lucy,
[39:22] Speaker 5: you would be honest. Your first electricity price cut is
[39:27] Speaker 5: in twenty forty. You have a plan to cut electricity
[39:31] Speaker 5: places in twenty forty. That's a Liberal Party policy.
[39:34] Speaker 3: Okay, I'm not brooking the Liberal Party policy in operation.
[39:39] Speaker 5: Now you said let's go nuclear too much of my
[39:41] Speaker 5: point is tell the truth that you will not.
[39:44] Speaker 3: Just your just as your mate down in the launch
[39:47] Speaker 3: told the truth about how much nuclear was going to cost,
[39:50] Speaker 3: propagating the line that we were.
[39:51] Speaker 1: Going to get one hundred billions and we were going
[39:53] Speaker 1: to get official. We've got forty. I've got forty.
[39:59] Speaker 5: Before you can offer a price, an electricity.
[40:04] Speaker 4: Will be bank rushed and living around candles.
[40:08] Speaker 1: We're already in a world of pain when it comes
[40:10] Speaker 1: about brices. Anyway, good to see you both, Steve and Lucy.
[40:13] Speaker 1: As always, all right after the break, just into Nampa,
[40:15] Speaker 1: gymper Price. Things are tough for business at the moment.
[40:18] Speaker 1: You'll have plenty to say on that. Don't go away,
[40:20] Speaker 1: and we'll have another look as well at what's going
[40:21] Speaker 1: on with one nation. Stick around. Joining me now just
[40:30] Speaker 1: into Nampa, jimper Price. Welcome to the show, Senator, and
[40:33] Speaker 1: you've been getting fired up recently about ask basically saying
[40:38] Speaker 1: that the record insolvencies that we're seeing in the country
[40:42] Speaker 1: at the moment the fault of the businesses themselves that
[40:46] Speaker 1: you know, it's got nothing to do with the government.
[40:48] Speaker 1: I mean, it is so hard to do business in
[40:51] Speaker 1: this country at the moment. I was reading a story
[40:53] Speaker 1: last night from a cafe owner who was basically saying, look,
[40:58] Speaker 1: you know, with these new age rules that have come in,
[41:01] Speaker 1: you know I have to pay someone on a Sunday
[41:04] Speaker 1: or a public holiday upwards of seventy bucks an hour
[41:08] Speaker 1: just to clean the dishes. That's all good and will
[41:10] Speaker 1: to say people deserve a pay rise. Of course, they
[41:12] Speaker 1: deserve a pay rise, but the person running the business
[41:15] Speaker 1: is also dealing with the same increase in overheads as
[41:17] Speaker 1: everyone else. I mean, at some point something has to give.
[41:23] Speaker 4: Look, that's precisely right.
[41:25] Speaker 6: Something does have to give, and unfortunately, for many businesses,
[41:30] Speaker 6: it's the businesses themselves that are giving way. I mean,
[41:34] Speaker 6: since the Albanezer government has come to power since twenty
[41:38] Speaker 6: twenty two, we've seen business insolvencies increase to have forty
[41:43] Speaker 6: five thousand businesses. And you know, I was discussing this
[41:48] Speaker 6: dramatic increase with ASSEK during Senate estimates last week, and
[41:53] Speaker 6: what was really disappointing was the way in which they
[41:56] Speaker 6: appeared to it was like victim blaming a victim, blame
[42:00] Speaker 6: aiming exercise from them and trying to suggest that it
[42:06] Speaker 6: was due to cash flow issues but poor financial management
[42:12] Speaker 6: of these businesses. And rightly, so you're talking about you've
[42:16] Speaker 6: heard from a small business. I held a small business
[42:18] Speaker 6: round table here in Melbourne today and I'm.
[42:22] Speaker 4: Hearing it over and over again.
[42:24] Speaker 6: There is absolute uncertainty because you never know when this
[42:28] Speaker 6: government is going to turn around a lie to the
[42:31] Speaker 6: Australian people, to small businesses once more and introduce yet
[42:34] Speaker 6: another tax or another compliance burden that is going to
[42:39] Speaker 6: impact small business in ways that they're not really sure
[42:44] Speaker 6: until those changes come about and they have to adjust
[42:47] Speaker 6: to those changes. I mean, they're consistently having to readjust
[42:50] Speaker 6: a compliance burden. And it's no wonder that there is
[42:55] Speaker 6: now an environment where many small businesses are really sitting
[42:59] Speaker 6: on their hands because they don't want to invest in
[43:01] Speaker 6: such uncertain times, or they're looking at taking their businesses
[43:06] Speaker 6: off shore, and that's not good for our economy and
[43:09] Speaker 6: that's not good for jobs growth in our country either.
[43:13] Speaker 1: What were you being told by people at this roundtable today?
[43:15] Speaker 1: I mean, I imagine there would be small business owners hemorrhaging
[43:20] Speaker 1: at the moment and saying, well, you know, I'm not
[43:22] Speaker 1: sure I want to be in business anymore.
[43:26] Speaker 6: That's precisely right. I mean, it's the cost of everything
[43:29] Speaker 6: that is going up. It's the cost of doing business.
[43:33] Speaker 6: It's the cost, it's the increase in inflation, increase in
[43:38] Speaker 6: interest rates, the fact that there is weak demand throughout
[43:44] Speaker 6: our economy. It's the fact that the cost of energy
[43:48] Speaker 6: is going up. And when the cost of energy goes up,
[43:50] Speaker 6: the cost of everything goes up. And as I said,
[43:54] Speaker 6: because of the uncertainty, because of the new rules, because
[43:58] Speaker 6: of the new taxes, because of the fact that they
[44:01] Speaker 6: have to many of them restructure their businesses now you know,
[44:05] Speaker 6: the fact that they're having to face these CGT changes,
[44:10] Speaker 6: CGT changes, because of all of those burdens on small business,
[44:16] Speaker 6: it is creating that uncertainty.
[44:18] Speaker 4: And you know, many business.
[44:19] Speaker 6: Owners are saying, and startups are saying, those that have
[44:23] Speaker 6: been in the game for some time now, if the
[44:25] Speaker 6: current environment was the way it was when they started
[44:28] Speaker 6: their business, they would never have got into it.
[44:30] Speaker 4: And why would anyone in their.
[44:32] Speaker 6: Right mind want to start a new business in this
[44:36] Speaker 6: current environment?
[44:37] Speaker 1: Well, indeed, I mean this is the question, why would
[44:39] Speaker 1: you start a new business when I suppose now it's
[44:42] Speaker 1: effectively more cost effective, so to use the word effected twice,
[44:46] Speaker 1: but to go and buy a business because at least
[44:50] Speaker 1: then your cost base will be whatever you've paid for
[44:52] Speaker 1: the business, and then the CGT you will pay a
[44:55] Speaker 1: delayed date is whatever profit you've made after that. Whereas
[44:58] Speaker 1: if you start a business now, you know you will
[45:01] Speaker 1: be paying above the rate of inflation, maybe up to
[45:05] Speaker 1: fifty percent minimum thirty, but up to fifty percent of
[45:09] Speaker 1: the profit you've made to the government, and your cost
[45:12] Speaker 1: based on a new business is basically zero.
[45:16] Speaker 6: That's precisely right. And what we have seen many people
[45:21] Speaker 6: who have poured every cent that they have earned back
[45:25] Speaker 6: into their business to grow their business, to employ more people,
[45:30] Speaker 6: to give others an opportunity. I mean, you know where
[45:34] Speaker 6: businesses are experiencing workforce shortages across the country as well.
[45:38] Speaker 6: You know, you have a look at the construction sector
[45:41] Speaker 6: where they're experiencing the most insolvencies at twenty five percent.
[45:47] Speaker 6: Where we have a housing crisis in this country, and
[45:52] Speaker 6: the government is making it even.
[45:53] Speaker 4: Harder for.
[45:57] Speaker 6: Our builders, our tradees to to get ahead with their
[46:00] Speaker 6: businesses to build homes. I mean, I suppose it's the
[46:04] Speaker 6: reason why we going forward, have ensured that we have
[46:09] Speaker 6: increased the instant asset right off two fifty thousand and
[46:12] Speaker 6: made it permanent. But also we want to cut back
[46:14] Speaker 6: on compliance for the construction industry, for the building sector,
[46:20] Speaker 6: and right now there is the National Construction Code which
[46:25] Speaker 6: is around two and a half thousand pages long. We
[46:29] Speaker 6: want to cut that back to two hundred pages long,
[46:32] Speaker 6: which also because of the reducing the regulatory burden, reduces
[46:37] Speaker 6: the cost of building a house by seventy thousand dollars.
[46:41] Speaker 6: These are the sorts of things that this government could
[46:43] Speaker 6: be doing, but instead they're making it bloody harder for
[46:47] Speaker 6: businesses to get ahead for houses to be built in
[46:49] Speaker 6: this country at a time when we need all of
[46:52] Speaker 6: those dramatically.
[46:55] Speaker 1: Indeed, which very quickly, Senator, you would have seen this
[46:58] Speaker 1: fire the lyre, a fundraising drive that One Nation started
[47:02] Speaker 1: today and last we checked it was already at one
[47:04] Speaker 1: point four million dollars they've received. You must be disappointed
[47:09] Speaker 1: that this is money people are seeing fit to give
[47:10] Speaker 1: to one nation and not to the Liberal Party.
[47:15] Speaker 6: Oh look, what I know is we need to get
[47:18] Speaker 6: rid of labor. We absolutely need to get rid of labor.
[47:21] Speaker 6: And I think you know Angus has made it very clear,
[47:25] Speaker 6: as has Tony Abbott, made it very clear that we
[47:27] Speaker 6: have to work with one nation because the aim in
[47:32] Speaker 6: all of this is to get rid of a dreadful
[47:34] Speaker 6: labor government that is running our country into the ground
[47:38] Speaker 6: and taking away aspiration and taking away a future for
[47:42] Speaker 6: our children and for our grandchildren. And that is the
[47:45] Speaker 6: aim of the game right now.
[47:47] Speaker 1: Indeed, justin to great to see you as always, and
[47:50] Speaker 1: I'll have more on that after the break. We'll show
[47:52] Speaker 1: you the latest numbers. It's just extraordinary how this keeps on. Sorry,
[47:56] Speaker 1: don't go away. This One Nation Fire the Liar campaign
[48:05] Speaker 1: will get the ticker back up again so we can
[48:07] Speaker 1: show you where it's got to. They're aiming now for
[48:10] Speaker 1: one point five million, and as you can see there,
[48:12] Speaker 1: it's ticked over one point four. It's now hit one
[48:15] Speaker 1: point four three seven million dollars that One Nation has
[48:20] Speaker 1: raised today alone. And this numbers been going up significantly
[48:25] Speaker 1: all night. Of course, when we came to where I
[48:27] Speaker 1: think it had just hit one point three. So they've
[48:31] Speaker 1: made you another one hundred k in the time we've
[48:34] Speaker 1: been on air tonight. If you want any more proof,
[48:36] Speaker 1: as though the poll results weren't good enough that people
[48:40] Speaker 1: are angry with the government, they say fire the Liar,
[48:43] Speaker 1: and they're happy to put their money where their mouth
[48:45] Speaker 1: is here's the late debate

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