# Paul Murray Live | 10 November

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 10 Nov 2025, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/c33eacb5-c57d-48a5-bd7a-b39100c06668/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Power bill shock sparks fresh anxiety as the PM battles the cost of living crisis, most Aussies say net zero by 2050 is a fantasy. Plus, electricity rebates could vanish as businesses struggle with soaring costs. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: From the Sky Center.
[0:02] Speaker 2: This is Paul Murray Live. Well, good evening and welcome
[0:07] Speaker 2: to the show.
[0:08] Speaker 3: I'm James Macpherson filling in for Paul Murray Live in
[0:10] Speaker 3: the man Cave coming up on tonight's program. If you
[0:14] Speaker 3: want to know just how bad things are in Melbourne,
[0:17] Speaker 3: consider this. The Justina Ellen government is considering whether or
[0:20] Speaker 3: not they'll decriminalize begging.
[0:23] Speaker 2: That's right, begging.
[0:25] Speaker 3: Plus The new poll finds one in two Australians fear
[0:28] Speaker 3: their energy bill is about to go up again, and
[0:31] Speaker 3: hardly anyone thinks net.
[0:32] Speaker 2: Zero by twenty fifty is achievable.
[0:35] Speaker 3: So why the Libs hebsitating on ditching the charade. Matt
[0:39] Speaker 3: Canavan and Sean Bell are ready to weigh in on
[0:41] Speaker 3: that one plus heads role at the BBC as Trump's
[0:44] Speaker 3: claims of fake news are proved true. I'll catch up
[0:48] Speaker 3: with Tom Slater in the UK all of that shortly,
[0:51] Speaker 3: but first, the government's social media band for people under
[0:54] Speaker 3: sixteen will take effect in one month from today, which
[0:58] Speaker 3: is appropriate because it appears to being drafted in about
[1:01] Speaker 3: one month, and to be honest, the government's social media
[1:04] Speaker 3: ban is about as well thought out as the government's
[1:07] Speaker 3: energy plan. And the government's immigration plan and the government's
[1:10] Speaker 3: housing plan, which is to say it hasn't been thought.
[1:13] Speaker 2: Out at all.
[1:15] Speaker 3: Now, I don't doubt the government's good intentions. Every parent
[1:19] Speaker 3: knows that social media can be harmful to children. I
[1:22] Speaker 3: just doubt their competence, especially when they're already admitting before
[1:27] Speaker 3: the law even starts that it's going to be well
[1:30] Speaker 3: a mess.
[1:32] Speaker 4: We don't argue that these laws will be perfect in
[1:35] Speaker 4: their implementation.
[1:37] Speaker 3: Well, then why don't you argue for getting them right
[1:40] Speaker 3: in the first place.
[1:42] Speaker 5: We know this law will not be perfect, but it
[1:44] Speaker 5: is too important not to have a crack.
[1:47] Speaker 3: Communications Minister Anika Wells is going to have a crack.
[1:52] Speaker 3: You have a crack at baking a cake, You have
[1:54] Speaker 3: a crack at learning the ukulele.
[1:55] Speaker 2: You don't have a crack at implementing.
[1:57] Speaker 3: Laws that affect freedom's privacy, business and parenting, to name
[2:02] Speaker 3: just a few things that we impacted by this law. Now,
[2:05] Speaker 3: if you're going to create a law as significant as this,
[2:09] Speaker 3: it might be a good idea to work out the
[2:10] Speaker 3: detail before you implement it. But with this government, it's
[2:14] Speaker 3: a case of ready fire and then if they get
[2:17] Speaker 3: around to it, they might take aim. Just thirty days
[2:20] Speaker 3: out from this ban coming into effect, we still don't
[2:23] Speaker 3: know which sites young people will and will not be
[2:26] Speaker 3: allowed to access. The list of sites affected was changed
[2:30] Speaker 3: as recently as a few days ago, and the Communications
[2:33] Speaker 3: Minister has said the list will continue to evolve. And
[2:37] Speaker 3: then there's a question of how this ban will work.
[2:39] Speaker 3: No one really knows because the government has left it
[2:42] Speaker 3: up to tech companies, so no one knows, including the government.
[2:47] Speaker 3: Will people need to supply a government issued digital ID.
[2:50] Speaker 2: To access sites?
[2:51] Speaker 3: Well, there's no definitive answer on that either. And if
[2:54] Speaker 3: we have to supply a digital ID, where will the
[2:57] Speaker 3: information be stored?
[2:59] Speaker 2: No one knows. Have listened to the PM Again, we.
[3:03] Speaker 4: Don't argue that these laws will be perfect in their implementation.
[3:07] Speaker 4: We do argue very strongly though, that this is the
[3:11] Speaker 4: Government of Australia setting down what we expect to happen,
[3:17] Speaker 4: including reminding social media companies that they have a social
[3:23] Speaker 4: responsibility and that they need to be conscious about their
[3:26] Speaker 4: social license like other businesses.
[3:30] Speaker 3: Translation, we don't really know how this works, but please clap.
[3:35] Speaker 3: Rather than deal with pesky details, the Prime Minister today
[3:38] Speaker 3: went for emotion.
[3:40] Speaker 4: This is a reform that has come from the bottom up.
[3:45] Speaker 4: It has been driven largely by parents who lost their
[3:48] Speaker 4: young sons and daughters. It is inspirational the fact that
[3:53] Speaker 4: parents have taken what is often a devastating personal tragedy
[3:59] Speaker 4: and channeled that trauma into helping others and making sure
[4:04] Speaker 4: that other parents and siblings don't go through what their
[4:09] Speaker 4: tragic experience has been.
[4:12] Speaker 2: Okay, now I get that, I really do get that.
[4:15] Speaker 3: But the devastation of a small number of people is
[4:19] Speaker 3: not necessarily justification for national laws affecting every person in
[4:23] Speaker 3: the country. Neither is it an excuse to implement laws
[4:26] Speaker 3: that the government admits in advance are going to be problematic.
[4:31] Speaker 3: You make laws with clear eyed reason, not with misty
[4:34] Speaker 3: eyed sentiment.
[4:35] Speaker 2: Here's some more of the PM today.
[4:37] Speaker 4: This is about letting kids be kids. It's also about
[4:41] Speaker 4: empowering parents to be able to have those discussions with
[4:45] Speaker 4: their children.
[4:47] Speaker 3: I'm not sure I know of any parent who needs
[4:49] Speaker 3: Anthony Albanesi to empower them to have discussions with their
[4:54] Speaker 3: own child. The PM says some silly things, but that
[4:57] Speaker 3: one that's a contender for a gold medal.
[5:00] Speaker 2: Sillier.
[5:02] Speaker 4: It's been driven by young people themselves, people like young Flossi,
[5:06] Speaker 4: who came here twelve year old from Tasmania just last week,
[5:11] Speaker 4: who's run a campaign with her peers saying what they
[5:15] Speaker 4: could do rather than spending time on their devices, playing sport,
[5:20] Speaker 4: learning a musical instrument, reading, engaging with each other and
[5:25] Speaker 4: building friendships on her face to face basis.
[5:31] Speaker 2: I get it.
[5:31] Speaker 3: I'm a parent and I absolutely agree with Flossy that
[5:34] Speaker 3: kids are better off playing outside than sitting in a
[5:36] Speaker 3: dark bedroom on a device. So guess what I did
[5:40] Speaker 3: pm being the parent of my kids. I parented my kids.
[5:44] Speaker 3: But more to the point, anecdotal Tasmanian tween activism is
[5:48] Speaker 3: not a regulatory impact statement. Anika Wells couldn't answer questions
[5:53] Speaker 3: precisely either, so she stuck to those motherhood statements that
[5:56] Speaker 3: politicians love so much, Statements that mean absolutely nothing but
[6:01] Speaker 3: that sounds nice and that generally satisfy an incurious media pack.
[6:06] Speaker 6: Our social media laws are not a cure, but they
[6:10] Speaker 6: are a treatment plan.
[6:12] Speaker 3: Now, if you can explain what that means, please apply
[6:15] Speaker 3: immediately to the Department of Communications because they need your help.
[6:20] Speaker 6: We want children to have their childhood and we want
[6:22] Speaker 6: parents to have peace of mind.
[6:25] Speaker 3: Lovely well if you want children to have their childhood
[6:28] Speaker 3: just a question, any chance you might start with the
[6:30] Speaker 3: gender ideology being pumped into classrooms before worrying about Instagram.
[6:36] Speaker 3: We're banning social media while sending kids to schools where
[6:40] Speaker 3: they're told they might be in the wrong body. Compared
[6:42] Speaker 3: to that, well, Facebook is practically wholesome. Finally, an Eca
[6:46] Speaker 3: wells closed with a line so poetic, so empty, it
[6:50] Speaker 3: could be printed on a scented candle a kmart.
[6:53] Speaker 1: This reform will not just change a law, It will change.
[6:56] Speaker 2: A generation, change a generation.
[6:59] Speaker 3: You don't even know how to change the parental settings
[7:01] Speaker 3: on your kid's phone thirty days out. The government doesn't
[7:04] Speaker 3: know what's banned, how it works, or how it will
[7:07] Speaker 3: be enforced. Classic Canberra overestimating their importance, underestimating the details,
[7:13] Speaker 3: and mistaking warm fuzzies for good policy. Or as they
[7:17] Speaker 3: said in the press of today, we had a crack.
[7:24] Speaker 3: Indigenous elders have launched a native title claim for Melbourne,
[7:29] Speaker 3: which begs the question have they seen Melbourne lately? The
[7:33] Speaker 3: massive claim, covering ten thousand square kilometers and including most
[7:37] Speaker 3: of metropolitan Melbourne, was lodged by eleven members of the
[7:40] Speaker 3: worrigery people in the Federal Court on Friday. The public
[7:45] Speaker 3: are being reassured that the move doesn't apply to private
[7:47] Speaker 3: homes or to businesses. It only applies to crowned land.
[7:51] Speaker 3: You know, nothing big, just the MCG, several shopping centers,
[7:55] Speaker 3: multiple golf courses, public parks and beaches. So that's a relief.
[8:00] Speaker 3: If successful, the title claim would give recognized traditional owners
[8:04] Speaker 3: a degree of decision making power over public land use
[8:08] Speaker 3: and the right to be consulted on certain activities within
[8:11] Speaker 3: those areas. And you can see there on your screen
[8:13] Speaker 3: it is a massive area. Law firms Slater and Gordon
[8:17] Speaker 3: is apparently representing the indigenous elders who will rely on
[8:21] Speaker 3: historical evidence showing the warruderies people's connection to country. Now
[8:27] Speaker 3: I'm asking for a friend here, but what about the
[8:30] Speaker 3: rest of us who were born in this land?
[8:32] Speaker 2: Apparently that means nothing.
[8:34] Speaker 3: These days, a non indigenous Victorian has about as much
[8:37] Speaker 3: moral authority as a my key card with negative balance.
[8:41] Speaker 3: The native title claim comes just over a week after
[8:44] Speaker 3: Victoria's controversial treaty legislation passed through parliament. Coincidence, Warridery elder
[8:51] Speaker 3: die Kerr told journalists quote, We're very proud that this
[8:55] Speaker 3: process is happening and we want to walk together. We
[9:00] Speaker 3: don't want it to be separate. We want to have
[9:03] Speaker 3: partnerships with governments and parks Victoria so we can co
[9:07] Speaker 3: manage and look after that country. Translation, we want to
[9:12] Speaker 3: be united by getting the casting vote. Seriously, this kind
[9:16] Speaker 3: of double speak from the Victorian labor government and from
[9:20] Speaker 3: indigenous activists does my head in.
[9:22] Speaker 2: We want to walk together, which is why.
[9:25] Speaker 3: We want to have rights over public land, and because
[9:28] Speaker 3: we don't want to be separate, we want special rights
[9:31] Speaker 3: that our non indigenous neighbors don't have. It's double speak
[9:35] Speaker 3: so thick, well, you'd need a machete to cut through it.
[9:39] Speaker 3: Speaking of which is anyone going to seriously argue that
[9:43] Speaker 3: indigenous tribes would do a worse job looking after Melbourne
[9:46] Speaker 3: than just into Allen. Even unions have given up defending her.
[9:50] Speaker 3: Today it was the Retail Workers' Union accusing the Allen
[9:53] Speaker 3: government and I quote of continuing to drag the chain
[9:58] Speaker 3: on reforms to protect front line workers and law abiding
[10:01] Speaker 3: shoppers from a tsunami of customer violence and abuse. You see,
[10:07] Speaker 3: Justina Allen promised last year to introduce new laws to
[10:11] Speaker 3: protect retail workers from assault and abuse. Those laws are
[10:17] Speaker 3: desperately needed. Victoria has the worst record of customer violence
[10:20] Speaker 3: in the country and the promised laws still haven't materialized.
[10:25] Speaker 3: In the year ending June thirty, theft from retail stores
[10:28] Speaker 3: in Victoria increased by twenty seven point six percent. It's
[10:32] Speaker 3: about forty one thousand offenses and according to the Australian
[10:37] Speaker 3: Retailers Association, Victoria now accounts for thirty five percent of
[10:42] Speaker 3: the entire nation's retail crime and violent incidents. Shop Distributive
[10:47] Speaker 3: and Allied Employees Association Victoria Branch secretary, that's quite the title.
[10:52] Speaker 3: Michael Donovan said this, why is our government dragging the chain?
[10:56] Speaker 5: Now?
[10:57] Speaker 3: Remember this is a union official criticizing state labor government.
[11:01] Speaker 3: Why is our government dragging the chain? Why are we
[11:03] Speaker 3: still waiting for action with an election barely twelve months away?
[11:07] Speaker 3: It makes absolutely no sense. He carries on, how much
[11:11] Speaker 3: longer are law abiding shoppers and frontline retail workers in
[11:15] Speaker 3: Victoria going to have to wait to get the protection
[11:17] Speaker 3: they need from the tsunami of customer violence and abuse? Well,
[11:23] Speaker 3: I can answer that question just into Allen's been very
[11:26] Speaker 3: busy working on a race based treaty that no one
[11:29] Speaker 3: asked for, but rest assured all those retailers who are
[11:32] Speaker 3: worried about their safety. As soon as the wokergender items
[11:35] Speaker 3: have been attended to, the small matter of Victorian's safety
[11:40] Speaker 3: will be dealt with, I'm sure. Oh, and the potholes.
[11:44] Speaker 3: Check out the carnage just east of Melbourne at the weekend.
[11:46] Speaker 3: Another present for all Victorians from an incompetent labor government.
[11:52] Speaker 6: Pothole carnage one, two three.
[12:01] Speaker 2: I think.
[12:08] Speaker 6: Ten twelve, eighteen twenty one.
[12:18] Speaker 3: Thank god the Victorian government didn't spend money fixing the
[12:21] Speaker 3: Princess Highway, otherwise they have no money for treaty. Speaking
[12:25] Speaker 3: of which Victorians will now be wondering if they'll need
[12:27] Speaker 3: a permission slip from the indigenous elders to fill the potholes.
[12:31] Speaker 3: I'm being facetious, you understand, but you can also understand
[12:35] Speaker 3: the frustration. By the way, when I mentioned pothole a
[12:38] Speaker 3: moment ago, most Victorian viewers would have assumed I was
[12:41] Speaker 3: talking about the suburban rail loop. It's just one of
[12:44] Speaker 3: the many sinkholes into which public funds keep disappearing in
[12:48] Speaker 3: Australia's grand socialist experiment.
[12:50] Speaker 2: You know it as Victoria.
[12:53] Speaker 3: And just when you think just Into Allen can't possibly
[12:55] Speaker 3: get any more wasteful, we learned today that her government
[12:59] Speaker 3: has spent two point one million dollars on consultants for
[13:03] Speaker 3: a review into improving the efficiency of the public service.
[13:08] Speaker 3: Let me just pause there for dramatic effect. They spent
[13:12] Speaker 3: millions to be told how to stop wasting millions. But
[13:16] Speaker 3: it gets worse. It always gets worse in labor run Victoria.
[13:19] Speaker 3: The review is completed in June, and you know how
[13:22] Speaker 3: many of the recommendations have been enacted?
[13:25] Speaker 2: Not one. In fact, the review hasn't even been released.
[13:29] Speaker 3: The Treasurer says the recommendations will be released when the
[13:32] Speaker 3: government is in a position to provide responses to the recommendations.
[13:37] Speaker 2: Translation, we've received.
[13:39] Speaker 3: The report on how to fix waste and we're currently
[13:42] Speaker 3: wasting time figuring out how to pretend that we care
[13:45] Speaker 3: about fixing waste. So Justinta Allen has spent two point
[13:49] Speaker 3: one million dollars on consultants to identify inefficiencies, and having
[13:54] Speaker 3: received the report, she sat on it for five months
[13:57] Speaker 3: while contemplating a response.
[14:00] Speaker 2: Now, can I humbly.
[14:02] Speaker 3: Suggest that the first inefficiency to cut is a no brainer.
[14:06] Speaker 3: But of course the Victorian voters will need to do
[14:08] Speaker 3: that on November twenty eight next year. Now, before we
[14:12] Speaker 3: leave Victoria, one more thing. Having already decriminalized public drunkenness,
[14:18] Speaker 3: the government is now considering decriminalizing begging. Maybe it makes sense.
[14:25] Speaker 1: I don't know.
[14:26] Speaker 3: Alan begging is about the only sector of the economy
[14:29] Speaker 3: it's experiencing any growth.
[14:35] Speaker 1: All right.
[14:35] Speaker 3: Now, after all that doom and gloom, especially for you
[14:38] Speaker 3: viewers in Victoria, you probably need to laugh.
[14:40] Speaker 2: So let's talk cricket. Don't change the channel. Stay with me.
[14:43] Speaker 2: This won't take long, and I promise it'll be worth it.
[14:46] Speaker 2: Take a look at.
[14:47] Speaker 3: Georgia vol batting at the Sydney Thunder in the Women's
[14:50] Speaker 3: Big Bash League at the weekend. She decides to try
[14:54] Speaker 3: what the purists call a ramp shot. It's fancy, italiant,
[14:57] Speaker 3: it's sophisticated in in practice, well, she sends the ball
[15:03] Speaker 3: straight into her own head.
[15:05] Speaker 2: Have a look.
[15:12] Speaker 1: Fairly dramatic, just the way she went down to her legs.
[15:16] Speaker 1: I mean, And we shouldn't laugh. The reason we maybe can.
[15:21] Speaker 6: In this situation is that she's out there and she's okay,
[15:24] Speaker 6: going to keep batting.
[15:26] Speaker 3: We shouldn't laugh, says the commentator, and I felt kind
[15:29] Speaker 3: of bad because when I saw that, I have to
[15:31] Speaker 3: confess I started laughing straight away. Don't judge me. It
[15:34] Speaker 3: was an involuntary response. But I suppose the commentator was
[15:38] Speaker 3: right we should not laugh. Well seconds later, the camera's
[15:42] Speaker 3: cut to Georgia Vol's teammates watching on from the boundary line, and.
[15:54] Speaker 2: I guess we can laugh.
[15:55] Speaker 3: You've got to laugh these days, otherwise you'd go absolutely mad.
[16:00] Speaker 3: All right, coming up after the break, most Australians don't
[16:03] Speaker 3: think there's any chance will achieve net zero by twenty fifty,
[16:07] Speaker 3: so why the hell are the Liberals going to spend
[16:09] Speaker 3: all week debating whether or not they'll remain committed to it?
[16:13] Speaker 3: And the Queensland LNP have more spin doctors than Queensland
[16:17] Speaker 3: has journalists. And wait until you hear how the Premier
[16:20] Speaker 3: justifies it. All of that with my panel after this, well,
[16:27] Speaker 3: welcome back to the program. I'm joined by National Senator
[16:30] Speaker 3: Matt Canavan and New South Wales One Nation Senator Sean Bell.
[16:34] Speaker 2: YouTube.
[16:34] Speaker 3: Gentlemen, must be pretty relaxed knowing that you've got your
[16:37] Speaker 3: climate policies all sorted out of course, this week a
[16:40] Speaker 3: big one for the Liberals. They're promising a position on
[16:44] Speaker 3: net zero by the end of the week. Of course,
[16:47] Speaker 3: Senator Jane Hume she wants net zero kept.
[16:50] Speaker 2: Have a listen to her.
[16:52] Speaker 7: There is an awful lot of consensus in the room
[16:54] Speaker 7: that we have an obligation to meet our international obligations,
[16:58] Speaker 7: the treaties that we have so to to reduce emissions,
[17:02] Speaker 7: but we also have to make sure that we build
[17:04] Speaker 7: the energy grid for the future. The only way we're
[17:07] Speaker 7: going to be able to do that is by making
[17:09] Speaker 7: sure that we put more gas into the system, that
[17:11] Speaker 7: we get rid of the moratorium on nuclear energy.
[17:16] Speaker 3: And Liberal MP listen Macintosh wants net zero dumped.
[17:20] Speaker 6: You can't please everyone. But I know some people talk
[17:23] Speaker 6: about the seats that we have to win, but there
[17:25] Speaker 6: are also seats that we must retain, and their seats,
[17:28] Speaker 6: like mine, these are everyday Australians that you know are
[17:32] Speaker 6: out in our suburbs, and people in our suburbs are
[17:34] Speaker 6: really fighting for survival right now when you've got double
[17:37] Speaker 6: income families lined up at food banks.
[17:39] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and it's reality.
[17:42] Speaker 6: It's not being against the environment. He's pro reality.
[17:47] Speaker 3: So Matt I'm hearing about twenty out of fifty one
[17:49] Speaker 3: Liberal MPs and senators want to keep net zero.
[17:53] Speaker 2: What's your reading of the room. Your sources will be
[17:55] Speaker 2: much better than mine.
[17:56] Speaker 8: I'm not doing the numbers for Liberal Party. I'm only
[17:58] Speaker 8: interested in doing the numbers for us. Just speak that
[18:01] Speaker 8: I'll leave it up to them. I mean the Nationals Party.
[18:03] Speaker 8: We had discussions about polling and those things, but ultimately
[18:08] Speaker 8: we made a decision that what we think is in
[18:09] Speaker 8: the best interests of our country, and that's what I
[18:11] Speaker 8: hope guide's discussion in the Liberal Party room. I wish
[18:14] Speaker 8: them all the best, but I think for too long
[18:18] Speaker 8: we've made decisions about our energy grid based on what
[18:22] Speaker 8: we think it matters for the polling booth, not what
[18:27] Speaker 8: it matters for the power bill that comes in every quarter.
[18:31] Speaker 8: So I just have this old fashioned idea, James, that
[18:34] Speaker 8: in fact, the best way.
[18:35] Speaker 1: We can perform at an election is to put.
[18:38] Speaker 8: Forward the best policies that we think will help our nation.
[18:42] Speaker 8: I don't really care what the United Nations thinks about
[18:45] Speaker 8: our policy think I care about what it means for
[18:48] Speaker 8: how strong our nation is, how many rewarding jobs we
[18:51] Speaker 8: can have, how low our prices and how high our
[18:53] Speaker 8: standard of living is, and most of all, just get
[18:55] Speaker 8: our mojo back. And I think the Nationals Party's got
[18:57] Speaker 8: its mojo back. Since we adopt policy week ago, We've
[19:01] Speaker 8: had a fantastic reaction across the community. And it's amazing
[19:06] Speaker 8: what a bit of courage can deliver. Because now I
[19:08] Speaker 8: do think lots of my liberal colleagues are coming on
[19:10] Speaker 8: board as well. They can see that, they can see
[19:12] Speaker 8: the support for standing up and fighting.
[19:14] Speaker 1: For our nation again.
[19:15] Speaker 8: So look, I hope they make the right decision this week,
[19:17] Speaker 8: but as I say, most of all, I hope they
[19:19] Speaker 8: make it in the best interests of the nation, not
[19:21] Speaker 8: what might might save as many seats or whatever they
[19:24] Speaker 8: think they're doing it on.
[19:25] Speaker 2: On that base, I reckon, you're right.
[19:26] Speaker 3: I reckon the nets have got their mojo back, which
[19:28] Speaker 3: might be bad news for one nation. I'll ask you
[19:30] Speaker 3: that in a moment. But I know you're not doing
[19:32] Speaker 3: the liberal numbers, but you must have a feeling because
[19:35] Speaker 3: it's a pretty important decision. It's going to infect the
[19:37] Speaker 3: coalition future.
[19:39] Speaker 8: So the only thing I'd say, I'm not doing the
[19:43] Speaker 8: numbers chains, but the only thing I'd say is typically
[19:45] Speaker 8: the side that winning is not out threatening to quit
[19:47] Speaker 8: if the decision goes against them.
[19:49] Speaker 1: Okay, like, if you're winning, you probably don't do that.
[19:51] Speaker 2: Good call. Good call.
[19:53] Speaker 3: All right, So let me ask you this, Sean. If
[19:55] Speaker 3: the Liberals stick with net zero, Matt doesn't think they will,
[19:58] Speaker 3: But if they did, it'd be pretty untenable for Matt
[20:01] Speaker 3: and his mates to stick with the Liberals as a coalition, wouldn't.
[20:04] Speaker 1: It, James?
[20:06] Speaker 9: At times like this, I'm glad I'm with a party
[20:08] Speaker 9: that has had a strong and consistent position on this
[20:11] Speaker 9: from the very beginning, which makes things very, very easy.
[20:15] Speaker 9: And so what I think we've got is, I think
[20:17] Speaker 9: you're on. I don't know how the Nationals stick with
[20:20] Speaker 9: the Liberal Party if they do stay with net zero.
[20:23] Speaker 9: And the other question is the Liberal Party itself could
[20:26] Speaker 9: be in danger because, like you said, there are twenty
[20:28] Speaker 9: Liberal MPs who are that oppose to a policy as
[20:32] Speaker 9: sensible as scrapping net zero. Then I think it calls
[20:35] Speaker 9: into the question the future of the Liberal Party as
[20:37] Speaker 9: a whole.
[20:38] Speaker 3: Well, I noted that one of the Liberal MPs today
[20:41] Speaker 3: talked about, oh, it's going to be a love in
[20:43] Speaker 3: this week.
[20:44] Speaker 2: There's no disunity, it's all great.
[20:47] Speaker 3: You might have some insight into that, Matt, having been
[20:49] Speaker 3: through the process in the Nationals party room where there
[20:51] Speaker 3: were different views on this issue, do you think it's
[20:55] Speaker 3: that harmonious? Can this debate because it really goes to
[20:59] Speaker 3: matters of prince, doesn't it? This isn't about the color
[21:01] Speaker 3: shirt you're wearing. This is about something that affects every
[21:04] Speaker 3: aspect of the economy and of people's lives.
[21:09] Speaker 2: Do you think with views.
[21:10] Speaker 3: Held that strongly, it can be a harmonious decision or
[21:14] Speaker 3: do you think whichever way they go there's going to
[21:18] Speaker 3: be collateral damage.
[21:19] Speaker 1: No?
[21:19] Speaker 8: Yes, so I do think it can be of a
[21:23] Speaker 8: consequent I do think an outcome can be great harmony.
[21:26] Speaker 1: I've seen this before.
[21:28] Speaker 8: I remember when the emissions training scheme was debated very forcefully,
[21:32] Speaker 8: when Tony Abbot became learer. Effectively they got decided by
[21:34] Speaker 8: one vote. Tony Abbitt won by one vote in the
[21:36] Speaker 8: llegdship ballot in late two thousand and nine. And once
[21:40] Speaker 8: the debate was happened and held position was decided, everyone
[21:43] Speaker 8: got out of the football fild and fought really hard
[21:45] Speaker 8: for six months. And after that six months Kevin Rodd
[21:47] Speaker 8: was gone he'd actually dumped the ets and gone and
[21:49] Speaker 8: so you can actually find sometimes when you thrash it out.
[21:52] Speaker 1: And no doubt the positions are very willing right now.
[21:55] Speaker 8: But we've needed this for a long time. We papered
[21:57] Speaker 8: over these cracks last term and they're exposed at the election.
[22:00] Speaker 8: This time we're having the debate, and yes it's a
[22:02] Speaker 8: little bit messy, but I do think there's a real
[22:04] Speaker 8: chance that after this there can be great unity because
[22:07] Speaker 8: everyone's had their view, a decision will be made.
[22:09] Speaker 1: We can get on with.
[22:10] Speaker 3: It, just quickly before I move on Shawan any more
[22:13] Speaker 3: Nationals or maybe Liberal MPs talking to one nation over
[22:17] Speaker 3: cups of coffee.
[22:19] Speaker 9: Mat, All I can say is our door is always open, Matt,
[22:22] Speaker 9: our door is always over.
[22:23] Speaker 1: I appreciate. I'm very flattered, but happy in the home
[22:27] Speaker 1: I'm in.
[22:27] Speaker 2: I'll tell you what.
[22:28] Speaker 3: That would be a news breaking story, wouldn't it if
[22:30] Speaker 3: on air you went over to one nation.
[22:32] Speaker 1: I don't think I have a happy hight James all right.
[22:34] Speaker 3: A new poll out today shows one in two Australians
[22:37] Speaker 3: fear the push toward net zero will drive electricity prices
[22:41] Speaker 3: even higher over the next four years. I know what
[22:43] Speaker 3: the other half of the country you are thinking, But of
[22:45] Speaker 3: course what's it all for? Only thirty three percent of
[22:48] Speaker 3: Australians believe that net zero by twenty to fifty will
[22:51] Speaker 3: be achievable.
[22:52] Speaker 2: But here's the.
[22:53] Speaker 3: Contradiction that I wanted to ask you about, Matt. Fifty
[22:56] Speaker 3: nine percent of people support Labour's twenty thirty five emissions
[22:59] Speaker 3: reduction targets. So how do you explain that most people
[23:03] Speaker 3: are worried their prices are going to go up, they
[23:06] Speaker 3: don't think we're going to achieve the goal, but they
[23:10] Speaker 3: still support the targets.
[23:11] Speaker 2: How do you reconcile that?
[23:13] Speaker 8: Well before six months before the Voice sixty percent of
[23:15] Speaker 8: people supported it, didn't they look.
[23:17] Speaker 1: I think the.
[23:19] Speaker 8: Main result you get from asking questions about net zero
[23:24] Speaker 8: about emissions targets is that most people don't know what
[23:27] Speaker 8: they are. The vast majority of people don't really know
[23:31] Speaker 8: what net zero is. I would suggest a lot of
[23:33] Speaker 8: politicians don't know what net zero is. They couldn't explain
[23:36] Speaker 8: it to you. If you've got some labor of green
[23:38] Speaker 8: MPs in here and say what's net zero? I think
[23:40] Speaker 8: a lot of them would be lost for words. And likewise,
[23:43] Speaker 8: the general public don't really know either. So we've never
[23:45] Speaker 8: really had a proper debate on this as a public
[23:47] Speaker 8: It's sort of been accepted by big media, big academia,
[23:51] Speaker 8: the major political parties, and it hasn't really faced scrutiny.
[23:56] Speaker 8: I actually think this is a case of the emperor
[23:59] Speaker 8: has no cloe, and once once some people start pointing out, hey, hey,
[24:03] Speaker 8: he's not wearing any clothes. Net zero's not wearing any clothes,
[24:05] Speaker 8: those results might look very different, very quickly.
[24:07] Speaker 3: I'll tell you what it frightens me if that's true
[24:09] Speaker 3: that many MPs couldn't actually explain what zero means when,
[24:14] Speaker 3: as I said.
[24:14] Speaker 1: I spent enough time in camera, and there's a reason.
[24:17] Speaker 2: Why, Matt, now you know why I'm want to stay
[24:19] Speaker 2: well away shut. There's good news for one nation.
[24:22] Speaker 3: In this poll, voters were asked who they trusted most
[24:26] Speaker 3: to handle the cost of living, labor or liberal, and
[24:30] Speaker 3: thirty percent said neither or someone else.
[24:35] Speaker 9: I mean, and that's unsurprising when you look at the
[24:38] Speaker 9: policies that have been delivered for a long time by
[24:41] Speaker 9: both the major parties. It's unsurprised that that's because you'll
[24:44] Speaker 9: see you again for a very long time.
[24:45] Speaker 1: The position on this.
[24:46] Speaker 9: Policies like NED zero by the major parties has been
[24:49] Speaker 9: in lockstep, and so it's unsurprising to see people looking elsewhere.
[24:53] Speaker 9: And so when you've got parties like One Nation who
[24:54] Speaker 9: have been very consistent on this and very consistent and
[24:57] Speaker 9: explaining to people that net zero means higher power bills,
[25:00] Speaker 9: net zero means that you know, sometimes you're going to
[25:03] Speaker 9: have to be their choosing between whether your feeda kids
[25:06] Speaker 9: or your feed yourself, that they are going to be
[25:08] Speaker 9: looking for alternatives, and so they are going to say, well,
[25:11] Speaker 9: these other options are extremely worthwhile.
[25:14] Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about new data from the OECD's
[25:17] Speaker 3: annual Climate Action Monitor that shows global climate policy.
[25:20] Speaker 2: Action is stalling. Let me read you some of it.
[25:23] Speaker 3: The flagship publication of the OECD's International Program for Action
[25:27] Speaker 3: on Climate said momentum on emissions reduction had slowed significantly
[25:31] Speaker 3: since twenty twenty one, and.
[25:33] Speaker 2: The world was still well off track.
[25:35] Speaker 3: To meet its declared climate commitments by the end of
[25:37] Speaker 3: the decade. Sean, why is momentum slowing around the world.
[25:42] Speaker 3: We're told we're at risk of global boiling, We're on
[25:45] Speaker 3: a highway to climate hell. We had Prince William just
[25:48] Speaker 3: the other day over in Brazil talking about how this
[25:51] Speaker 3: is the great moral issue of our time. We've got
[25:54] Speaker 3: to do something, and yet we're seeing this momentum, no
[25:58] Speaker 3: matter how many COP conferences hold is slowing down.
[26:01] Speaker 2: Why is that?
[26:03] Speaker 9: It's because these other countries they know the truth. I mean,
[26:06] Speaker 9: they know that all of this action that they could
[26:08] Speaker 9: be taking is for nothing, and they're turning around to
[26:11] Speaker 9: there they're going to They've decided they're going to choose
[26:13] Speaker 9: to deliver cheaper energy and a better cost living for
[26:15] Speaker 9: their people. And it seems that well that's all going on,
[26:18] Speaker 9: Anthony Albanezy, Chris Bowen, They're going to continue with this
[26:21] Speaker 9: blunder because they're more interested in pandering to the teals
[26:25] Speaker 9: than delivering the cheap energy that better outcomes to the
[26:28] Speaker 9: Australian people.
[26:29] Speaker 3: I reckon, You're right, and their views on things like
[26:32] Speaker 3: Propelsitian protests probably shaped by their desire to panda to
[26:36] Speaker 3: certain segments of the community as well.
[26:38] Speaker 2: It seems to be the way they do policy. Matt.
[26:41] Speaker 3: Of course, the real problem here, of course, is that
[26:43] Speaker 3: if the rest of the world are slowing momentum towards
[26:47] Speaker 3: net zero by twenty fifty but we're going hammer and tong.
[26:52] Speaker 2: What's it all for?
[26:53] Speaker 8: And we are going hammer and tong. We're one of
[26:55] Speaker 8: the few countries that actually meet our commitments. We met Kyoto,
[26:59] Speaker 8: very few countries did that. We're now on track to
[27:01] Speaker 8: meet our twenty thirty targets, and now Chris barn wants
[27:04] Speaker 8: to take it even faster. Keep in mind that if
[27:06] Speaker 8: we do what Chris bar and Labor Party wants, we'll
[27:09] Speaker 8: be cutting our missions in the next ten years by
[27:12] Speaker 8: triple the rate of the developed world. So forget about China, India,
[27:16] Speaker 8: who are going into the stratosphere, even just Canada, the US, Europe,
[27:19] Speaker 8: Japan career, we will be cutting our missions at a
[27:21] Speaker 8: rate three times them. The question has to be asked,
[27:24] Speaker 8: why why would we do that? Is not going to
[27:26] Speaker 8: change one bit of the environment. It's not going to
[27:28] Speaker 8: stop one bush fire, one cyclone. If we cut our
[27:31] Speaker 8: missions by that much, we're only one percent of world emissions.
[27:34] Speaker 8: But we now know this comes at a great cost
[27:36] Speaker 8: to us. We can see that with the electricity prices
[27:38] Speaker 8: through the roof, with jobs being lost, why would we
[27:41] Speaker 8: handicap our own economy for no environmental benefit.
[27:45] Speaker 3: I know you're asking that as the rhetorical question, but
[27:47] Speaker 3: let me ask it straight back to you as a
[27:49] Speaker 3: genuine question, because I think a lot of people like
[27:51] Speaker 3: me would watch what's happening in Canberra and I mean,
[27:54] Speaker 3: we don't have the viewers will laugh at this, but
[27:56] Speaker 3: we don't have unintelligent people.
[27:58] Speaker 1: Goes back and it goes back to why are they
[28:00] Speaker 1: doing this? It goes back to what you just showed before.
[28:01] Speaker 1: It's based on polling.
[28:03] Speaker 8: So I've been in so many rooms where you say, well,
[28:05] Speaker 8: I've been in even a cabinet room without I'm saying
[28:07] Speaker 8: anything what goes on there precisely. But you go in
[28:10] Speaker 8: there into these rooms and you think you want to
[28:12] Speaker 8: have a discussion about, well, what is the best energy
[28:14] Speaker 8: type to keep manufacturing jobs here or.
[28:16] Speaker 1: To grow an AI to act. Most people, you don't
[28:19] Speaker 1: adjust those.
[28:19] Speaker 8: Things, You don't discuss those things, or you spend maybe
[28:22] Speaker 8: ten percent of the time. The other ninety percent of
[28:24] Speaker 8: time you spend talking about polling, and it's your weather
[28:27] Speaker 8: veins like, okay, if people think this, we'll do that.
[28:30] Speaker 8: And look, I've got great respect for these ranged people,
[28:32] Speaker 8: but I don't think we should be designing a complex
[28:35] Speaker 8: electricity system based on a pole, because I don't think, again,
[28:39] Speaker 8: with all respect to your viewers, how many of them
[28:41] Speaker 8: out there you reckon could actually run an electricity system
[28:44] Speaker 8: or know how to do it. I know what frequency
[28:45] Speaker 8: control is, or a nurser is. Maybe you should leave
[28:49] Speaker 8: that to the engineers and the economists who who.
[28:52] Speaker 1: Have the proper details about how things work.
[28:54] Speaker 2: We fortunately Chris Bowen has a lot of experience in
[28:56] Speaker 2: those things.
[28:57] Speaker 1: Now, I think Chris Bon's like that.
[28:58] Speaker 8: He's like the the wife in the Second of War
[29:01] Speaker 8: says I'm not worried about bread shortages because I only
[29:03] Speaker 8: eat toast.
[29:05] Speaker 3: All right, Small business owners, I can't laugh when I'm
[29:08] Speaker 3: talking about this one, because it's serious. Are drowning in
[29:10] Speaker 3: rising energy bills, with nearly a third of small business
[29:13] Speaker 3: owners in this country admitting concern they may close within
[29:17] Speaker 3: a year. This was reported just today. Sky News Sunday
[29:20] Speaker 3: Agenda host Andrew Clenell asked NDIS Minister Jenny McAllister where
[29:24] Speaker 3: the labor is likely to extend electricity rebates past December
[29:28] Speaker 3: and here's what she had to say.
[29:30] Speaker 7: We have indicated it's not a permanent feature of the budget,
[29:34] Speaker 7: but more generally, of course, cost of leaving relief is
[29:37] Speaker 7: an area of focus for the government.
[29:40] Speaker 3: So Sean the government's caught in a pincer movement of
[29:43] Speaker 3: their own making on this. Their policies are causing electricity
[29:47] Speaker 3: prices to rise at the same time they want to
[29:50] Speaker 3: fight cost of living, so the temptation to keep rebates
[29:53] Speaker 3: going would be very strong. But then they've got to
[29:56] Speaker 3: try and keep the budget in some semblance of acceptability.
[30:01] Speaker 2: So they're really stuck, aren't they. It's all their own doing.
[30:04] Speaker 9: One hundred percent. One nation warned when labor proposed this
[30:08] Speaker 9: policy that it was only a matter of time it
[30:10] Speaker 9: wouldn't work because eventually they'd run out of other people's
[30:13] Speaker 9: money to spend. And ultimately one of the main motivators
[30:15] Speaker 9: of Labor doing it's in the first place was actually
[30:18] Speaker 9: an accounting trick. They wanted to lower inflation on paper
[30:21] Speaker 9: to mask over the real inflation in the economy that
[30:24] Speaker 9: was being caused by rising electricity prices. They did that
[30:27] Speaker 9: to artificially try to bring down inflation, and now unfortunately
[30:31] Speaker 9: it's snapping back at the worst possible time.
[30:33] Speaker 3: It sure is, and matt for business owners, I mean
[30:36] Speaker 3: a third of small business owners worrying they might go
[30:38] Speaker 3: to business in the next twelve months. And what's the
[30:40] Speaker 3: government speaking about spending a billion dollars hosting a climate
[30:44] Speaker 3: conference in Adelaide next year.
[30:45] Speaker 8: Well, it's all about priorities, James. And what the National's
[30:47] Speaker 8: Party decided in the past week is that our priorities
[30:50] Speaker 8: should be to bring electricity prices down, living standards up first.
[30:55] Speaker 1: That's what we should be doing.
[30:57] Speaker 8: That's all our focus in But as you say, this
[30:58] Speaker 8: government is focused on other things about getting applause from
[31:02] Speaker 8: the United Nations and spending a lot of your money.
[31:05] Speaker 8: I mean these the government wants to end these rebates
[31:08] Speaker 8: because they're costing so much money. But the problem is
[31:09] Speaker 8: we're now becoming a bailout nation. We've got to bail
[31:12] Speaker 8: out large businesses like our smelters and refineries, now looking
[31:16] Speaker 8: at bailing out small businesses who are one of the
[31:19] Speaker 8: big reasons they're closing is because of energy prices, and
[31:21] Speaker 8: we've got to bail out average families who can't afford
[31:23] Speaker 8: their bills. Keep in mind, if they don't extend the rebates.
[31:26] Speaker 8: I just checked, your bills are likely to go up
[31:30] Speaker 8: another ten to twelve percent straight after on January one.
[31:34] Speaker 8: So great Christmas present this year from the Labor government.
[31:37] Speaker 8: If they don't continue rebates, bills go up straight away.
[31:39] Speaker 3: So we can't keep doing this in definitely, because on
[31:41] Speaker 3: the one hand they're subsidizing renewables and then they subsidize
[31:45] Speaker 3: the punters.
[31:46] Speaker 8: Consequences of the renewable, the consequences of the REU one
[31:50] Speaker 8: big money go round, are paid for by you. The
[31:52] Speaker 8: only people who benefit out of it are the self
[31:55] Speaker 8: entitled rich class of consultants, lawyers, advisors, and investors and
[31:59] Speaker 8: banks who make a lot of money on the back
[32:01] Speaker 8: of all those investments.
[32:02] Speaker 9: And the rest of us are still waiting for our
[32:03] Speaker 9: power bills to come down by two hundred and seventy
[32:05] Speaker 9: five dollars.
[32:05] Speaker 3: We haven't forgotten about that one, that's for sure. Or
[32:08] Speaker 3: a couple of topics I want to hit real fast.
[32:09] Speaker 3: Remember those pro Palestinian protesters camped outside the Prime Minister's
[32:13] Speaker 3: office for months and then eventually the church which owns
[32:17] Speaker 3: the property the PM was leasing, they said, look, this
[32:19] Speaker 3: is creating too many problems even for our church members.
[32:23] Speaker 2: Can you move?
[32:23] Speaker 3: And so the PM moved, but the protesters they're still
[32:26] Speaker 3: camped in the same spot. The PM's gone, but they're
[32:29] Speaker 3: continuing to harass church members. So I'm just wondering, Sean,
[32:34] Speaker 3: what's that all about. I thought they would have moved on.
[32:36] Speaker 3: Why are they still there?
[32:37] Speaker 2: Do you reckon?
[32:39] Speaker 9: Look, everyone needs a hobby, don't they. I mean, the
[32:44] Speaker 9: thing is like Anthony Alberanizi is getting a taste of
[32:47] Speaker 9: his own medicine when you play panda to these radical
[32:53] Speaker 9: activists and eventually you're going to have to be dealing
[32:55] Speaker 9: with them. I mean, if we think about I think
[32:57] Speaker 9: about some of the things that Senator Hanson's dealt with
[32:59] Speaker 9: over the time. This is sort of part and parcel
[33:01] Speaker 9: of being in politics. You do hope that these people
[33:05] Speaker 9: don't start overstepping the bounds, you know, you do hope that,
[33:08] Speaker 9: you know, you don't want them to take it too far.
[33:10] Speaker 9: But ultimately, when you play with fire, you get burned.
[33:13] Speaker 8: How come we can play with kid gloves with these guys,
[33:17] Speaker 8: but these Nazis are terrible. We're going to come down
[33:20] Speaker 8: on an like a ton of bricks on them. Why
[33:22] Speaker 8: aren't we treating these protesters as equally as the Nazis?
[33:26] Speaker 8: Because you can't just keep people away from their elected representatives.
[33:30] Speaker 8: Something should be done. They should be moved on.
[33:32] Speaker 2: You keep asking me rhetorical question.
[33:36] Speaker 1: Now you've got all the answers game, so well.
[33:38] Speaker 2: Tell me why is it is it? Is it polling?
[33:40] Speaker 1: Well no, I think in this case it's just out
[33:42] Speaker 1: in our bias.
[33:43] Speaker 8: Right, So the far right is always down meineminized, and
[33:46] Speaker 8: we should put no truck with Nazis and these people
[33:49] Speaker 8: they've got it. They should should have the full force
[33:52] Speaker 8: law thrown at them. But the left wing extremists get
[33:55] Speaker 8: off scott free. It's just the way it is.
[33:58] Speaker 1: All right.
[33:58] Speaker 3: The Queensland LNP government has blown almost five million dollars
[34:01] Speaker 3: on spin since Premier David Cristi fully was elected just
[34:04] Speaker 3: over a year ago. Analysis of Department of Premier and
[34:08] Speaker 3: Cabinet spending disclosures that Christa Fooley's government has outlaid there
[34:12] Speaker 3: is four million, eight hundred and eighty one thousand dollars
[34:15] Speaker 3: on public relations since defeating Labor at last year's October election.
[34:20] Speaker 3: And they've employed one group to help them with their spin,
[34:24] Speaker 3: whose slogan is if you don't like the headlines, rewrite them.
[34:28] Speaker 2: Matt, I guess you know.
[34:29] Speaker 3: I was going to ask you why they're doing this,
[34:31] Speaker 3: but you've already explained it to me. When people sit
[34:33] Speaker 3: down in cabinet meetings, ninety percent of the discussion is
[34:37] Speaker 3: what are the polls.
[34:39] Speaker 8: I think this is probably a little bit of a
[34:44] Speaker 8: storm and a tea cup. I mean, all governments have
[34:47] Speaker 8: to employ people to communicate things, and I know lots
[34:50] Speaker 8: of people who work in these areas simple things.
[34:52] Speaker 1: Like building a new road.
[34:53] Speaker 8: You've got to communicate that to local constituents and tell
[34:56] Speaker 8: people app but thea application. So I think they're adding
[34:59] Speaker 8: up a whole lot of thing to make it sound
[35:01] Speaker 8: like everybody's trying to If you look at Spinner and
[35:04] Speaker 8: it's probably just more Monday.
[35:05] Speaker 3: If you look at all the people in that sort
[35:07] Speaker 3: of department, yeah, you get about twelve hundred people.
[35:10] Speaker 2: Now, because point out it's ass same as what is predecessor.
[35:14] Speaker 1: This is across the whole government.
[35:15] Speaker 2: It's not even that many journalists in Queensland, so that's one.
[35:18] Speaker 8: Of these aren't all journalists, so they're people running media releases,
[35:22] Speaker 8: they're people.
[35:22] Speaker 2: But the government lovel well.
[35:24] Speaker 8: I mean, as I say, if you're you're if you're
[35:27] Speaker 8: building a new dam, you've got to make sure the
[35:29] Speaker 8: local community understands what's happening. Any road closures that are happening.
[35:32] Speaker 8: These people are doing that stuff, So I'm not so
[35:34] Speaker 8: sure it's it's actually measuring what you think it is.
[35:38] Speaker 3: All right, I want to ask you both about the BBC.
[35:41] Speaker 3: We've had shocking evidence over the last couple of days.
[35:43] Speaker 3: I've talked to a guest from the UK shortly about
[35:46] Speaker 3: some of the revelations. Bias against Trump, bias in favor
[35:50] Speaker 3: of trans ideology, bias against Israel. Now they're going to
[35:54] Speaker 3: have a review just to see how the BBC have
[35:56] Speaker 3: been reporting on climate issue.
[36:00] Speaker 2: You what do you reckon, Matt and Sean? You reckon the.
[36:02] Speaker 3: BBC will be found to be squeaky clean and completely
[36:04] Speaker 3: impartial when it comes to the climate christ.
[36:07] Speaker 8: That line from Yes Minister and never it points someone
[36:10] Speaker 8: to an inquiry until you know what answer they're going
[36:13] Speaker 8: to give.
[36:13] Speaker 1: So I don't know.
[36:15] Speaker 8: I don't know if I will trust any kind of inquiry.
[36:16] Speaker 8: But I think we all know what the score is
[36:18] Speaker 8: when it comes to the BBC and reporting on these matters.
[36:21] Speaker 9: And I think you to find there's a lot of
[36:22] Speaker 9: people currently at the ABC watching this go down and
[36:25] Speaker 9: they're starting to get very nervous.
[36:27] Speaker 3: I reckon, you're right, and there's a lot of people
[36:28] Speaker 3: watching this and thinking they're quite excited about what might
[36:31] Speaker 3: happen at the ABC. Imagine if we got a similar dossia.
[36:34] Speaker 3: We've got to go to a break, so we need
[36:35] Speaker 3: to be pretty quick on this, but just quickly. It's
[36:37] Speaker 3: been a pretty sad weekend with the passing of Richo
[36:41] Speaker 3: and of course of John Laws. Just before we go
[36:44] Speaker 3: to the break, I wanted to just get your thoughts, Matt.
[36:46] Speaker 3: I'm sure you would have known Richo pretty well, and
[36:49] Speaker 3: of course John Laws. Just quickly give me your thoughts.
[36:51] Speaker 1: Rich I was a great mate.
[36:53] Speaker 8: He was a great mate because it always give you
[36:54] Speaker 8: frank advice no matter what side of politics you were on.
[36:58] Speaker 8: And he just knew he had an uncanny knack for
[37:01] Speaker 8: knowing the Australian people. So he's a huge loss. Didn't
[37:03] Speaker 8: know John Laws as well, and he interviewed a couple
[37:05] Speaker 8: of times by him, but absolute legend. Two giants lost
[37:08] Speaker 8: in two days. Yeah, sure, and look the.
[37:10] Speaker 9: Utmost respect for both of them. And like Senator Hanson,
[37:12] Speaker 9: I know many times I was there while she was
[37:14] Speaker 9: interviewed by John Laws. They didn't always agree, but he
[37:16] Speaker 9: always gave her a fair hearing, and I can say
[37:18] Speaker 9: just one thing I always respected about rich I was
[37:20] Speaker 9: the work he did keep in the communist out of
[37:22] Speaker 9: the labor Puddy.
[37:23] Speaker 3: Absolute joy talking to both of you. Thanks for being
[37:25] Speaker 3: in the studio. It's a great privilege to have you
[37:27] Speaker 3: both here. I appreciate your time. All Right, we're going
[37:29] Speaker 3: to go to a break. When we come back, heads
[37:31] Speaker 3: roll at the BBC and there's even more on that
[37:35] Speaker 3: story with Tom Slater in London next. Well, the BBC
[37:44] Speaker 3: has finally reached a moment of reckoning. I think last
[37:48] Speaker 3: night I showed you how BBC staff docted a clip
[37:51] Speaker 3: from President Donald Trump's speech to make it look like
[37:54] Speaker 3: he had incited a riot at the Capitol building. Now,
[37:57] Speaker 3: in case you've not seen it, have a look at
[37:59] Speaker 3: what they did.
[38:01] Speaker 9: We're going to walk down to the Capital and I'll
[38:04] Speaker 9: be there with you, and we fight.
[38:08] Speaker 5: We fight like hell.
[38:09] Speaker 2: We're going to walk.
[38:10] Speaker 1: Down to the Capital.
[38:14] Speaker 5: And we're going to cheer on our brave senators and
[38:19] Speaker 5: congressmen and women.
[38:21] Speaker 2: Unbelievable. But there was more.
[38:23] Speaker 3: There was evidence of bias against Israel in the Gaza
[38:26] Speaker 3: conflict and evidence of bias in the trans debate, where
[38:29] Speaker 3: the BBC deliberately pushed a pro trans agenda. Well, today
[38:34] Speaker 3: BBC Director General Tim Davey has resigned, and so too
[38:38] Speaker 3: HASC CEO of News Deborah Taness, who less than an
[38:43] Speaker 3: hour ago had this to say.
[38:46] Speaker 5: I stepped down over the weekend because the buck stops
[38:49] Speaker 5: with me. But I'd like to make one thing very clear.
[38:52] Speaker 5: BBC News is not institutionally biased.
[38:57] Speaker 3: Spiked online editor Tom Slater joins me with more details
[39:01] Speaker 3: live from London. Tom, let me start with the new
[39:05] Speaker 3: CEO there, who just an hour ago said I'm quitting
[39:09] Speaker 3: because the buck stops with me. But there is no
[39:13] Speaker 3: instance of institutional bias at the BBC. Is that just
[39:17] Speaker 3: another lie from the BBC.
[39:20] Speaker 10: It's an unwitting one. But I guess that's the problem
[39:22] Speaker 10: with the BBC, isn't it. You've just been forced out,
[39:26] Speaker 10: effectively handed in your resignation after tremendous criticism for systemic bias,
[39:31] Speaker 10: and then you say that we're not biased. I mean
[39:33] Speaker 10: it beggars belief. It's really worth stressing this and you
[39:36] Speaker 10: were gesturing it to it there, James. And your introduction
[39:39] Speaker 10: is that the allegations about what they did to that
[39:42] Speaker 10: Trump speech, which is an outrageous piece of misinformation. They
[39:45] Speaker 10: took those two sections, which were about an hour apart,
[39:48] Speaker 10: and stitched them together to make it look like he
[39:49] Speaker 10: had incited the mob on January sixth. It's an unforgivable overstep.
[39:53] Speaker 10: Bias doesn't cut it in that instance. But that memo,
[39:56] Speaker 10: which was published by the Telegraph, which is what was precipit.
[40:00] Speaker 10: All of this is chock full of even more shocking examples.
[40:03] Speaker 10: The BBC Arabic website constantly hundreds of times, using contributors
[40:08] Speaker 10: to talk about Israel and Palestine who have openly said
[40:12] Speaker 10: things we should burn the Jews like Hitler did.
[40:15] Speaker 1: You've got allegations in there that their.
[40:16] Speaker 10: Internal LGBTQ plus question mark whatever the acronym is now
[40:22] Speaker 10: team were actively censoring stories about the gender issue. And
[40:25] Speaker 10: there's another one which is BBC Verify, which is their
[40:28] Speaker 10: vaunted anti misinformation team. The first big investigation they did
[40:33] Speaker 10: was into a story about supposedly racist car insurance refusals,
[40:37] Speaker 10: which turned out to be complete nonsense. Their misinformation team
[40:41] Speaker 10: pumping out misinformation. We've talked for a long time about
[40:43] Speaker 10: BBC bias, it's far deeper than that. Heads are rolling now,
[40:47] Speaker 10: but will it spark a reckoning that remains to be seen,
[40:49] Speaker 10: as you suggest.
[40:50] Speaker 3: So let me ask you this, So imagine, Well, I mean,
[40:53] Speaker 3: we've got friends at GB News for instance, in the UK.
[40:57] Speaker 3: If GB News were pulling these kind of stunts, would
[41:01] Speaker 3: they still be on here.
[41:03] Speaker 2: Now?
[41:03] Speaker 10: They'd have their knuckles wrapped BYOFCOM. They'd probably be severely sanctioned.
[41:07] Speaker 10: If you've got people who are actively misrepresenting what politicians
[41:12] Speaker 10: are saying to fit a prescribed narrative, it doesn't matter
[41:15] Speaker 10: what organization you are, there's going to be consequences for that.
[41:17] Speaker 10: And there's been a lot of discussion in recent days
[41:20] Speaker 10: excuse me kind of contrasting.
[41:22] Speaker 1: The BBC with GB News and BBC.
[41:24] Speaker 10: Defenders saying it's more important than ever that we defend
[41:27] Speaker 10: this wonderful institution. The thing about GB News is GB
[41:30] Speaker 10: News knows that it is GB News. The BBC has
[41:33] Speaker 10: no idea that it is the left wing GB News.
[41:36] Speaker 1: That is the problem.
[41:37] Speaker 10: That is the issue. It's when Debrater says there is
[41:40] Speaker 10: no bias at the BBC. I kind of believe that
[41:42] Speaker 10: she believes that. I think it is sincere. The problem
[41:44] Speaker 10: is is that this kind of bias, this kind of manipulation.
[41:47] Speaker 10: This kind of political agenda is the water that these
[41:50] Speaker 10: people swim in, which means that I think when it
[41:52] Speaker 10: comes to having a clear out of the BBC, it's
[41:54] Speaker 10: almost certainly going to go beyond just two people at
[41:56] Speaker 10: the top.
[41:56] Speaker 1: There's a much deeper problem here. Yeah.
[41:58] Speaker 3: By the way, I wasn't insinuated anything against gb News
[42:01] Speaker 3: with that question. Not I'm interested in the parallel in
[42:04] Speaker 3: terms of, you know, how the two organizations might be treated.
[42:08] Speaker 3: Donald Trump didn't waste any time. He went on Trump's
[42:12] Speaker 3: social and said, there you go. I've called it fake news,
[42:15] Speaker 3: and now it's proved. Not only that, but I guess
[42:19] Speaker 3: for the National Broadcaster Tom to be essentially defaming the
[42:25] Speaker 3: president of the United States, the UK's most important ally,
[42:30] Speaker 3: the BBC meant to act in the interests of the
[42:33] Speaker 3: people of Britain, this would be blatantly acting against the
[42:37] Speaker 3: national interest for their own ideological purposes. I don't know
[42:41] Speaker 3: how else to put it.
[42:43] Speaker 10: I think that's very well put and I think what's
[42:45] Speaker 10: also been so striking up the reaction in recent days
[42:48] Speaker 10: is that there has been an attempt to present the
[42:50] Speaker 10: exit of Tim Davey and Deborah Turnas as effectively the
[42:54] Speaker 10: corporation bowing to right wing pressure. That's both in the
[42:56] Speaker 10: White House, but there's also kind of all kinds of
[42:58] Speaker 10: conspiracy theories doing the rounds about various members of the
[43:01] Speaker 10: BBC board who are Tories by background, and therefore they've
[43:04] Speaker 10: engineered this. I mean, if there is a kind of
[43:06] Speaker 10: right wing coup at the BBC, it's been the most
[43:08] Speaker 10: ineffectual one in history. And every time that the BBC
[43:11] Speaker 10: is attacked, even quite rightly, as the White House are
[43:14] Speaker 10: well within their rights to have done in this instance,
[43:17] Speaker 10: the move is always to be incredibly defensive. It's almost
[43:19] Speaker 10: like we have to ignore these criticisms because otherwise we
[43:22] Speaker 10: can't defend the institution. If people within the BBC or
[43:25] Speaker 10: outside of it really want it to continue to exist,
[43:28] Speaker 10: to continue to maintain its reputation both here and around
[43:31] Speaker 10: the world, which is taking a hell of a knock
[43:33] Speaker 10: over the course of the past week, they need to
[43:35] Speaker 10: take these questions seriously.
[43:36] Speaker 1: What we've seen.
[43:37] Speaker 10: Since then is just deflection, as I say, conspiracy theories
[43:40] Speaker 10: and a refusal to accept that anything has gone wrong,
[43:43] Speaker 10: even when a dossier enumerting dozens of times in which
[43:46] Speaker 10: it has gone wrong has been presented to them. If
[43:48] Speaker 10: they can't learn from this, I don't think there is
[43:50] Speaker 10: any scandal that could shape them out of this.
[43:53] Speaker 2: Just one more question on this.
[43:56] Speaker 3: I was talking to my penel just before you came
[43:59] Speaker 3: on here, and and there's reports that there will be
[44:02] Speaker 3: now an inquiry into the BBC's handling of climate change
[44:06] Speaker 3: and how they've reported that. What do you expect that
[44:09] Speaker 3: inquiry to find?
[44:12] Speaker 1: Not a hell of a lot.
[44:13] Speaker 10: I mean, the BBC's climate editor is so biased on
[44:16] Speaker 10: this particular question. His name's Justin Rolap. He has actually
[44:20] Speaker 10: been wrapped over the knuckles by the internal editorial complaints
[44:24] Speaker 10: unit of the BBC for just flat out saying completely
[44:26] Speaker 10: factually incorrect things. He's still in post, still posting things
[44:29] Speaker 10: out of the BBC. This is another area which I
[44:32] Speaker 10: think is one that will be investigated next. But will
[44:34] Speaker 10: the BBC market its own homework for the NTEEP time
[44:37] Speaker 10: make that much difference, I would be surprised.
[44:39] Speaker 3: I'm sure you understand, Tom. The interest here in Australia
[44:42] Speaker 3: in what's happening with the BBC driven in large part
[44:45] Speaker 3: because there's some similarities with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation here.
[44:51] Speaker 3: So we're watching with great interest. Just before I'll let
[44:54] Speaker 3: you go on to ask you about a consideration on
[44:59] Speaker 3: behalf of Kiss Dara with regards to asylum seekers who
[45:03] Speaker 3: have been staying in hotels at exorbitant cost of the
[45:06] Speaker 3: British taxpayers. He's now considering a trial scheme in which
[45:10] Speaker 3: asylum seekers would be offered the equivalent of two hundred
[45:13] Speaker 3: dollars a week to leave taxpayer funded hotels. No surprise,
[45:18] Speaker 3: Brits aren't happy with them staying in hotels, but neither
[45:21] Speaker 3: are they happy with the idea that they might be
[45:23] Speaker 3: paid to leave the hotels.
[45:27] Speaker 1: No, and this is exactly the problem.
[45:28] Speaker 10: The issue of illegal migration is that people have been
[45:30] Speaker 10: allowed to enter the country illegally and therefore should be removed.
[45:34] Speaker 10: The government think it's just about getting them out of
[45:35] Speaker 10: the hotels, that those protests are purely that people aren't
[45:38] Speaker 10: happy with the hotels being used in that way.
[45:40] Speaker 1: As Ever, the issue is upstream from that.
[45:42] Speaker 10: They need to tackle that, and the British public are
[45:44] Speaker 10: not so dimmed that they're not going to notice. You're
[45:47] Speaker 10: just trying to move the issue around, which is what
[45:48] Speaker 10: the government has been.
[45:49] Speaker 2: Trying to do.
[45:50] Speaker 3: Exactly you nailed at tom As you always do a
[45:53] Speaker 3: delight to talk to you.
[45:54] Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me tonight. Well still to come.
[45:57] Speaker 3: I'm convinced the AFL getting there ideas from Oprah.
[46:01] Speaker 2: I'll explain why after this.
[46:10] Speaker 3: Well, the AFL have found a way to make the
[46:12] Speaker 3: competition more exciting. Instead of the top eight teams playing
[46:16] Speaker 3: off in the finals, they've announced the beginning next year,
[46:19] Speaker 3: the top ten teams will play finals. What it means
[46:23] Speaker 3: is that more than half the teams in the competition
[46:26] Speaker 3: will make the finals. Now, that doesn't make the competition
[46:29] Speaker 3: more exciting, it makes the AFL more money. And of
[46:32] Speaker 3: course it rewards mediocrity. I mean, if you finish tenth
[46:36] Speaker 3: out of eighteen teams and get to play finals, how
[46:39] Speaker 3: is that not a reward for mediocrity, his AFL boss
[46:42] Speaker 3: Andrew Dillon.
[46:44] Speaker 1: I don't think it rewards mediocrity.
[46:45] Speaker 10: What it does is provide opportunities and more ganggy consequence,
[46:49] Speaker 10: and fans love finals and they love gange.
[46:52] Speaker 2: Consequences games of consequence.
[46:55] Speaker 3: When tenth plays first, or second, or third, or fourth
[46:59] Speaker 3: or sixth or even seventh, I'll tell you what, it
[47:01] Speaker 3: ain't a game of consequence. It's just another game the
[47:04] Speaker 3: AFL can sell tickets to I always thought football finals
[47:08] Speaker 3: were determined by, you know, the performance of the players
[47:11] Speaker 3: not in the AFL, or at least not anymore, football
[47:14] Speaker 3: finals are determined by broadcasting requirements and revenue graphs. At
[47:19] Speaker 3: this point, they might as well just draw names out
[47:21] Speaker 3: of a hat to decide the Grand Final winner.
[47:24] Speaker 2: So I'm asking myself.
[47:25] Speaker 3: Where on earth did they get the idea it will
[47:28] Speaker 3: be smart to have a competition in which pretty much
[47:31] Speaker 3: everyone gets a prize.
[47:34] Speaker 2: All right, open your boxes, I'll be backing away. So great.
[47:54] Speaker 2: They think footy fans are absolute idiots.
[47:57] Speaker 3: Speaking of idiots, I continue to be for North Melbourne
[48:01] Speaker 3: despite the fact they've finished eighteenth or seventeenth five years
[48:06] Speaker 3: in a row. So if they're going to invite the
[48:09] Speaker 3: top ten finishing teams to play finals, I reckon, why
[48:13] Speaker 3: not invite the last two teams as well. That way
[48:16] Speaker 3: my team could at least lose a game of consequence
[48:20] Speaker 3: once in a while. I'll tell you it's tough being
[48:22] Speaker 3: a North Melbourne supporter, but I've followed them all my life,
[48:26] Speaker 3: so I guess it's fine and it was my decision.
[48:28] Speaker 3: My kids, however, they have to follow the kangaroos because
[48:30] Speaker 3: I'm Dad and I've said to them, if you want
[48:33] Speaker 3: to come home, you will support North Melbourne. They love
[48:35] Speaker 3: this idea of everybody getting a prize, so maybe it's alright.
[48:39] Speaker 2: After all. That's all I've got time for tonight.
[48:41] Speaker 3: I'll see you tomorrow, but up next is the late Debate,
[48:44] Speaker 3: and filling in for me is the wonderful Frail Leach.
[48:47] Speaker 2: Good Night,

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