# Paul Murray Live | 15 December

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 15 Dec 2025, 1 h 39 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/816fef3a-1731-4e86-a320-b3b40158a879/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Innocent victims taken by the worst terror attack in Australia's history. Plus, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese to strengthen gun laws. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: The Skyning Center. This is Paul Burray Live. There are
[0:06] Speaker 1: some words which have been said today, will be many
[0:10] Speaker 1: that will be said in the next couple of hours
[0:14] Speaker 1: and the next few days. There are big problems that
[0:17] Speaker 1: we need to deal with and adult conversations that need
[0:20] Speaker 1: to be had. There is going to be some distressing footage,
[0:23] Speaker 1: but there is also going to be some confronting truths
[0:26] Speaker 1: that we will deal with. But before I begin our
[0:30] Speaker 1: two hours together, as we try to process how Australia
[0:33] Speaker 1: has changed, how it has changed forever, I wanted to
[0:37] Speaker 1: take literally the first minute of the program in silent
[0:42] Speaker 1: tribute to the people who have been murdered, who have
[0:46] Speaker 1: been taken, whose future has been robbed. We will not
[0:51] Speaker 1: be identifying, we will not be showing you footage of
[0:54] Speaker 1: the people responsible. My focus is on the strength and
[0:57] Speaker 1: love the entire country for all fifteen souls that are
[1:03] Speaker 1: no longer with us. We do not know all of
[2:08] Speaker 1: their names or have all of their photos. We know
[2:12] Speaker 1: the story of Matilda, a little ten year old. We
[2:16] Speaker 1: know the story of Alex, the man who had survived
[2:19] Speaker 1: the Holocaust. We know the stories of religious figures like
[2:30] Speaker 1: rabbis from near and far, a bloke who was well
[2:34] Speaker 1: known and a former police officer who was a legend
[2:38] Speaker 1: around the Randwick Rugby Union Club. Their stories are endless
[2:44] Speaker 1: emotional focus. Their families that have been changed forever are
[2:49] Speaker 1: always in our thoughts. In the past hour, as you
[2:53] Speaker 1: have seen, there has been a vigil which has taken place,
[3:00] Speaker 1: have continued to gather throughout the day and they stand
[3:06] Speaker 1: as the night takes over a place that is synonymous
[3:12] Speaker 1: with an Australian lifestyle that has been shadowed by the
[3:15] Speaker 1: events of what took place yesterday. A rabbi was leading
[3:22] Speaker 1: part of the visuals in defiance. His words are deeply
[3:29] Speaker 1: important and those applause that you may well have heard
[3:32] Speaker 1: in the background was at times for what was being
[3:37] Speaker 1: said by guests who were on our air, and there
[3:44] Speaker 1: was also a reaction to what the rabbi was saying
[3:55] Speaker 1: all day. People who have been laying flowers from the
[3:59] Speaker 1: dawn when people would normally go swimming in something like
[4:02] Speaker 1: Bondeau Beach to now when the night life would be
[4:08] Speaker 1: pumping even on a Monday night. Now you know that
[4:11] Speaker 1: all of our major cities have sort of cities within cities.
[4:16] Speaker 1: The Eastern Suburbs is a city within Sydney. Bondai is
[4:20] Speaker 1: the capital of it. It's a place that is known worldwide,
[4:24] Speaker 1: but of course is home. It was home to almost
[4:31] Speaker 1: all of the victims in and around that area, and
[4:36] Speaker 1: from little girls to old men. These bastards have taken
[4:42] Speaker 1: life again. Tonight we will discuss difficult questions. We will
[4:47] Speaker 1: have people who will offer many answers. There are some
[4:50] Speaker 1: new comments from the Prime Minister that do raise an eyebrow.
[4:53] Speaker 1: We'll get to that all very shortly. But his son
[4:56] Speaker 1: of the everyday people who were arriving to pay tribute
[5:00] Speaker 1: and have laid their flowers amongst that beautiful arrangement outside
[5:05] Speaker 1: of the Bondi Pavilion, which is essentially in the heart
[5:07] Speaker 1: of the beach. This had happened in a playground a
[5:10] Speaker 1: couple hundred meters away.
[5:13] Speaker 2: It's just heartbreaking to see how such a horrifying act
[5:19] Speaker 2: can take place so close to home and on our doorstep.
[5:23] Speaker 3: This is absolutely devastating that this could happen.
[5:29] Speaker 4: We've lost some incredible human beings and today you.
[5:33] Speaker 5: Walking around Bondi, it's exactly like what October eighth felt like.
[5:39] Speaker 6: It was eerie, it was quiet.
[5:45] Speaker 1: Now I've been thinking about this all day, and I've
[5:49] Speaker 1: been thinking about that, say, twenty five years ago, when
[5:53] Speaker 1: the modern Western world became confronted with those who believed
[6:01] Speaker 1: that taking innocent life was somehow some sort of offering
[6:08] Speaker 1: to a bastardized version of their religion. What scared us
[6:12] Speaker 1: all then, as we were sitting on the other side
[6:15] Speaker 1: of the world watching the towers fall, the plane into
[6:19] Speaker 1: the Pentagon, or of course the plane that the passengers
[6:24] Speaker 1: helped take down in Pennsylvania and Australians died on that day,
[6:31] Speaker 1: we were all freaked out by the idea that anything
[6:36] Speaker 1: was a target and everything could be a weapon. The
[6:40] Speaker 1: idea immediately after it was to fortify all of the
[6:45] Speaker 1: national symbols in places like Sydney. It was to have
[6:49] Speaker 1: guards on the Harbor Bridge. When major sporting events would
[6:54] Speaker 1: take place like the Boxing Day Test, extra police and
[6:56] Speaker 1: extra scanning would take place because our fear was that
[7:01] Speaker 1: the targets would be huge national symbols. In the twenty
[7:07] Speaker 1: five years that we have been talking in Australia about terrorism,
[7:13] Speaker 1: we have seen it on buses in London. We have
[7:19] Speaker 1: seen it in the nightclubs of Balley, later the beaches
[7:25] Speaker 1: of Ballei. We've seen it ripple in lots of different directions.
[7:32] Speaker 1: But this is here what we feared for twenty five years,
[7:36] Speaker 1: that it was the big and the epic events that
[7:42] Speaker 1: would be targeted. And yes, for the past twenty five
[7:47] Speaker 1: years all of our authorities have done a wonderful job
[7:49] Speaker 1: in making sure that when there had been plots, and
[7:53] Speaker 1: there have been plots for such spectacular attacks, we continue
[8:02] Speaker 1: to live our lives and at this time of year
[8:05] Speaker 1: going to things like carols by candlelight, or of course
[8:10] Speaker 1: for the Jewish community the days of Hunnikh, to do
[8:16] Speaker 1: so at a beach in Broom, far North Queensland, or
[8:26] Speaker 1: neither the twelve Apostles in Victoria is something that we
[8:29] Speaker 1: just expect to be there. Yet these bastards tried to
[8:39] Speaker 1: change that. What, of course, they must never be able
[8:46] Speaker 1: to change is our ability to unite wherever the hell
[8:52] Speaker 1: we want to walk, wherever the hell we want to
[8:56] Speaker 1: gather in faith or family or friends or ourselves, or
[9:01] Speaker 1: just go and have a damn ice cream when it
[9:06] Speaker 1: is deemed appropriate to do so. If you're in Sydney,
[9:11] Speaker 1: go to Bondo Beach. If you're in Sydney, go and
[9:14] Speaker 1: have coffee in the cafes return and make this place
[9:20] Speaker 1: as vibrant as it was in the second before the
[9:25] Speaker 1: shots rang out. That's what we can do to reclaim
[9:32] Speaker 1: a space. But we also have to make sure that
[9:36] Speaker 1: the leaders who lead us see with clarity what the
[9:42] Speaker 1: leaders twenty five years ago saw, which was a need
[9:50] Speaker 1: to find any part. Are those who seek to radicalize,
[9:59] Speaker 1: weapon i or celebrate acts of hate in the name
[10:06] Speaker 1: of faith. It is not acceptable anywhere in the world,
[10:10] Speaker 1: but because this is our bit of the world, it
[10:12] Speaker 1: is unacceptable here. This is not about Israel, This is
[10:20] Speaker 1: not about Palestine. This is not about the events of
[10:24] Speaker 1: October the seventh or the two years after over there.
[10:31] Speaker 1: This is about here. And like you, I hate that
[10:36] Speaker 1: we are sitting here at this time, looking at the
[10:39] Speaker 1: pictures that we are looking at, hearing the screams, but
[10:44] Speaker 1: we can't look away. Like many of you, I have
[10:50] Speaker 1: been frustrated watching politicians who react differently in twenty twenty
[10:54] Speaker 1: five than our leaders did in two thousand and one.
[10:58] Speaker 1: In two thousand and one, there was a visceral anger
[11:02] Speaker 1: in our leadership that this would not be tolerated. And
[11:05] Speaker 1: while obviously every leader is not seeking to tolerate or
[11:11] Speaker 1: to minimize. But they do seem to have a lack
[11:18] Speaker 1: of purpose about how to respond here because many rather
[11:26] Speaker 1: than saying if you are part of this, if you
[11:30] Speaker 1: aid this, if you support this, then we will get you,
[11:35] Speaker 1: the message has changed over the past twenty five years.
[11:40] Speaker 1: This is often what leaders said today.
[11:43] Speaker 7: The community is in grief, the community is mourning. We
[11:47] Speaker 7: need come. This is a moment for national unity.
[11:49] Speaker 4: And in all of this evil, in all of this sadness,
[11:53] Speaker 4: there are still wonderful, brave Australians that are prepared to
[11:56] Speaker 4: risk their lives to help a complete stranger.
[11:59] Speaker 8: All Australia Aliams stand together against that attack.
[12:05] Speaker 1: And while these politicians find their ways to say that
[12:08] Speaker 1: these are about moments of unity as opposed to moments
[12:12] Speaker 1: of being reminded of the ever present threat, that some
[12:16] Speaker 1: who live amongst us celebrate foster and in this occasion
[12:23] Speaker 1: carry out. I thought perhaps an example of the leadership
[12:30] Speaker 1: comes from some of the community members in the very
[12:32] Speaker 1: suburb where the father and son had come from, a
[12:37] Speaker 1: place called Bonnie Rig, Western Sydney, a place that is
[12:42] Speaker 1: more diverse than any boardroom, more diverse than any parliament.
[12:48] Speaker 1: But have a listened to what the people of Bonnie
[12:50] Speaker 1: Rigg said today about their country and about what they
[12:55] Speaker 1: thought about someone of their own suburb, a suburb they love,
[12:58] Speaker 1: because it is Australia committing what we have all seen
[13:02] Speaker 1: echo around the world.
[13:05] Speaker 9: It's terrible, it's tragic. Yeah, Like all I could say
[13:09] Speaker 9: is really like, how how can we let this pass?
[13:12] Speaker 7: How can we let this through?
[13:13] Speaker 9: Six license guns?
[13:15] Speaker 6: Like how these.
[13:17] Speaker 1: Are the governments fall through? The governments who know exactly
[13:19] Speaker 1: what's going on. That happened second time, So people doesn't
[13:22] Speaker 1: understand whatever happened? Are they wherever are you coming from?
[13:27] Speaker 1: These stays, They're not this country.
[13:28] Speaker 6: It's really scary.
[13:29] Speaker 9: Australia used to be a safe country, like and now
[13:32] Speaker 9: it just feels really uneasy.
[13:33] Speaker 5: And you know, if you're going to be like day,
[13:35] Speaker 5: take it back to your own country, like you know,
[13:36] Speaker 5: like we all came to austral on from a different
[13:39] Speaker 5: country as well.
[13:39] Speaker 6: We all come to Austray for a better life.
[13:42] Speaker 1: These are the people who can see the black and
[13:44] Speaker 1: white of an issue and those who I hope government
[13:48] Speaker 1: realize are the ones who are demanding action again. Now,
[13:51] Speaker 1: tonight is not about speeches. Tonight is not about soliloquies.
[13:54] Speaker 1: Tonight is about trying to work through some of the
[13:57] Speaker 1: questions which are outstanding, some of which, of course officially
[13:59] Speaker 1: we are being told and very unofficially not being told
[14:03] Speaker 1: because the investigations are taking place. Mark Murray is a
[14:06] Speaker 1: man who was on the scene, lives in the Eastern Suburbs,
[14:08] Speaker 1: did an excellent job on air when we had a
[14:12] Speaker 1: chance to talk to him last night. Is spectacular as
[14:14] Speaker 1: the crime editor of the Daily telegraphies across all of
[14:17] Speaker 1: it and he has of course a purview across the
[14:19] Speaker 1: entire city. Now, Mark, again, we have learned a little
[14:23] Speaker 1: more about the people responsible. Here I deliberately start with
[14:26] Speaker 1: the victims as an important point. But what do we
[14:29] Speaker 1: know at the end of the night about the two
[14:32] Speaker 1: people who obviously did this.
[14:35] Speaker 8: Well, one of the gunmen who was killed, he's the
[14:39] Speaker 8: father of his co conspirator. Alleged co conspirator, as you
[14:44] Speaker 8: believe it, is a younger man. Now he had been
[14:47] Speaker 8: come to the attention of Asia a number of years ago.
[14:50] Speaker 7: They've admitted that. Now, what we don't know is what
[14:53] Speaker 7: sort of follow what was given there. Obviously things that
[14:56] Speaker 7: have gone on.
[14:57] Speaker 8: You know, we learned today at the Daily Telegraph that
[15:01] Speaker 8: in November, both father and son spent a month in
[15:04] Speaker 8: the Philippines. What they were doing there, we don't know,
[15:08] Speaker 8: but we do know that that is a breeding ground
[15:10] Speaker 8: that isis has have been developing since about twenty sixteen
[15:13] Speaker 8: twenty seventeen. So the question now for investigators and for
[15:18] Speaker 8: the public demand to knows what happened between twenty nineteen
[15:23] Speaker 8: and now that saw these people drop off the radar,
[15:27] Speaker 8: particularly the alleged twenty four year old man who went
[15:31] Speaker 8: on the killing spree.
[15:32] Speaker 1: With his father. I also say that there is some
[15:36] Speaker 1: reporting tonight around his history and that there's tape of
[15:41] Speaker 1: him as a teenager as evangelizing again a radical form
[15:48] Speaker 1: of Islam. Have you been able to dig any deeper
[15:50] Speaker 1: into that today?
[15:51] Speaker 8: Now we're still we're now looking at some some of
[15:55] Speaker 8: the places where he may have worshiped, which were quite radical.
[15:59] Speaker 7: And very very high line.
[16:00] Speaker 8: Now, the police we've spoken to believe that there may
[16:04] Speaker 8: have been some self radicalization going on on the internet,
[16:08] Speaker 8: but that may have now been lifted a nervous and
[16:11] Speaker 8: outside influences, possibly from overseas, And again they'll be looking
[16:15] Speaker 8: very closely at this trip over to the Philippines. You
[16:18] Speaker 8: know why were they there for a whole month? What
[16:21] Speaker 8: were they doing there? Where's this financing coming from? There
[16:26] Speaker 8: are all these questions, so that his background particularly has.
[16:30] Speaker 7: Been looked at.
[16:31] Speaker 8: Now Asia, you would have thought, would hope that they
[16:35] Speaker 8: would have done a lot, a lot of this and
[16:37] Speaker 8: so you know, as I said, five six years ago,
[16:41] Speaker 8: he was considered a potential threat, a low level threat.
[16:45] Speaker 8: But he's now somehow dropped off the radar. And now
[16:48] Speaker 8: we've seen lot these terrifying events that have unfolded last
[16:52] Speaker 8: night and bon.
[16:52] Speaker 1: Nine now again, right, you're the stake on the sizzle,
[16:56] Speaker 1: you're the facts guy on the opinion man, right, So
[16:58] Speaker 1: I'm not trying to drag you into what into anything
[17:02] Speaker 1: of what I've said or what I do, but what
[17:04] Speaker 1: I am keen from your perspective as a bloke who
[17:07] Speaker 1: knows the city inside out. Again, twenty five years ago,
[17:11] Speaker 1: it felt like the response for everyone from the Police Commission,
[17:14] Speaker 1: of the Premier, of the Prime minister, everyone was essentially
[17:16] Speaker 1: sort of getting out there saying we're going to kick
[17:17] Speaker 1: over every stone, bash in every door, go to every
[17:20] Speaker 1: little corner, every bookstop, every that was the message. The
[17:23] Speaker 1: message was, this is how we are able to work
[17:25] Speaker 1: out what's going on here. The tone is different, and
[17:29] Speaker 1: that because society is different than it was twenty five
[17:31] Speaker 1: years ago. But obviously the intense is inside all of
[17:36] Speaker 1: those forces to be doing that. But have you noticed
[17:38] Speaker 1: the same thing that when it happens here, we're not
[17:42] Speaker 1: quite getting that. We know what the target is and
[17:46] Speaker 1: we're going to go get them.
[17:48] Speaker 8: You're right after I think you're saying twenty five years ago.
[17:51] Speaker 8: I even think after the lind Siege, we saw we
[17:55] Speaker 8: went hard. You know that police were uncovering. A hell
[17:58] Speaker 8: of a lot was going on. There's a lot of
[18:00] Speaker 8: going in. I don't know what's really happened in the
[18:02] Speaker 8: last couple of years. I feel there was a sense
[18:06] Speaker 8: of complacency. It started to come around. We saw those
[18:11] Speaker 8: herendous attacks around the Eastern suburbs last last year, after
[18:15] Speaker 8: the October seven Now there was a caravan full of
[18:20] Speaker 8: explosives found. Now that was very quickly put down to
[18:24] Speaker 8: the fact that that was a crook overseas trying to
[18:27] Speaker 8: manipulate the just assistant, and everyone called it the fake plot.
[18:31] Speaker 8: After that, I think everybody started thinking, oh, this was
[18:35] Speaker 8: an anti semitism was this was crooks trying to cash in,
[18:38] Speaker 8: and I feel that there was just from from the
[18:41] Speaker 8: top up, just a little bit of complacency crept in
[18:46] Speaker 8: where you know, I know how vigilant they were after
[18:49] Speaker 8: Lynd siege and even before them pandemics, there were major plots.
[18:53] Speaker 7: At one stage they were.
[18:54] Speaker 8: Going to blow up a tanker in Sydney Harbor, which
[18:57] Speaker 8: never got a lot of publicity because police stopped it.
[19:00] Speaker 7: And the other thing.
[19:01] Speaker 8: We've got to be very aware of with terrorism is
[19:04] Speaker 8: when they find out that they've been busted, that the
[19:08] Speaker 8: police are onto them, Unlike the conventional crook who then
[19:12] Speaker 8: runs away or stops so is not caught, they speed
[19:15] Speaker 8: up their action.
[19:16] Speaker 7: They run towards terror.
[19:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely correct, because if they think that there is
[19:21] Speaker 1: again the walls are closing in, well, then that's the time,
[19:25] Speaker 1: as you say in observation, to step up. Like everyone.
[19:29] Speaker 1: There's a whole bunch of amateur detectives that are sitting
[19:32] Speaker 1: around and have been watching the pictures over the past
[19:35] Speaker 1: twenty four hours and they're trying to put together the
[19:37] Speaker 1: timeline of five minutes here and eleven minutes there, and
[19:41] Speaker 1: the guns going this way, and why didn't something come
[19:43] Speaker 1: back the other way? There were two police officers who
[19:46] Speaker 1: were on the beach. We certainly know that one has died,
[19:50] Speaker 1: and I believe that another officer in the back and forth,
[19:53] Speaker 1: not of the original two, is also one that's injured.
[19:57] Speaker 1: Have you been able to put together any picture because
[20:00] Speaker 1: obviously a rifle is going to be a glock, But
[20:05] Speaker 1: if the shots were starting to be fired back from police,
[20:08] Speaker 1: from the people that were there before the riot squad
[20:11] Speaker 1: got there.
[20:12] Speaker 7: Yeah, there were the police.
[20:15] Speaker 2: They know.
[20:17] Speaker 8: We're trying to piece it together, and like you're saying,
[20:19] Speaker 8: I don't want to get into the grassy knoll type
[20:21] Speaker 8: of stuff, but you know, there's vision from all sorts
[20:24] Speaker 8: of different places.
[20:25] Speaker 7: And that can be distorted.
[20:26] Speaker 8: But we do know that there was an officer was
[20:29] Speaker 8: able to from forty odd yards away with a pistol,
[20:33] Speaker 8: was able to take down one of these government and
[20:36] Speaker 8: he was being shot at. It was exposing there was
[20:39] Speaker 8: a gunfight. There were some people trying to say the
[20:42] Speaker 8: police weren't doing it. The police went again, they go
[20:47] Speaker 8: to trouble, they go to danger. The police officers who
[20:49] Speaker 8: turned up their car was riddled with bullets. So trying
[20:54] Speaker 8: to figure out exactly who did what and when that
[20:57] Speaker 8: is now being pieced together, and there will be footage coming
[20:59] Speaker 8: from from everywhere around one day. That Campbell Parade has
[21:03] Speaker 8: surveillance cameras up and down. Now the cops will be
[21:06] Speaker 8: pulling all that and they'll be looking at their own actions.
[21:08] Speaker 8: There will be a lot of introspection from the beginning
[21:14] Speaker 8: of who these people were, how they are allowed to
[21:17] Speaker 8: get into this position.
[21:18] Speaker 7: That will involve a lot of the federal agencies.
[21:20] Speaker 8: But on the ground there will be an investigation both
[21:24] Speaker 8: internally by New South Wales Police as well as by
[21:27] Speaker 8: the Law Enforcement Crime Conduct Commission the LACK as they're called,
[21:32] Speaker 8: which is kind of like an outside body, who will
[21:35] Speaker 8: also examine exactly what went on, how they responded, and
[21:39] Speaker 8: whether there was whether.
[21:40] Speaker 7: Things could have been done better.
[21:42] Speaker 8: Now we know with the linked the Lint siege that
[21:47] Speaker 8: it took about a couple of years before we really
[21:50] Speaker 8: found out there were some major defects. Now, whether this
[21:54] Speaker 8: is going to come about here, I don't know, and
[21:56] Speaker 8: I'd be a fool to try and preempt anything that's
[22:01] Speaker 8: being looked at now so soon after what's happened. But
[22:03] Speaker 8: I do find I was down there, what was going
[22:07] Speaker 8: on was there was chaos. These two government had taken
[22:12] Speaker 8: a high position on a bridge.
[22:14] Speaker 7: They thought about it.
[22:15] Speaker 8: They didn't wake up Sunday morning and think I'm going
[22:17] Speaker 8: to go shoot some Jews.
[22:18] Speaker 7: They actually had planned it. They'd gone to a rented
[22:22] Speaker 7: premises in Cansy to avoid where they were. They weren't
[22:26] Speaker 7: at their home.
[22:26] Speaker 8: They then traveled there. They then got the high ground.
[22:29] Speaker 8: They had high powered rifles and from there they were
[22:32] Speaker 8: able to try and control a lot of the scene.
[22:35] Speaker 1: Mark, your reporting, as always is excellent. Your insight really
[22:38] Speaker 1: important and again for everyone you know. I can see
[22:41] Speaker 1: a map, but I can work all this out. There
[22:42] Speaker 1: are so many inquiries that are on their way. There
[22:45] Speaker 1: is so much that will be examined. There's also a
[22:47] Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff that we will all learn together.
[22:50] Speaker 1: Mark could be part of that process of us learning,
[22:52] Speaker 1: of course via the Daily Telegraph. Thank you, Mark, I
[22:54] Speaker 1: really appreciated Thanks all lot, good man, Mark Laury there
[22:57] Speaker 1: who is the crime at the Daily Telegraph. I'm telling
[23:00] Speaker 1: you best in the business when it comes to knowing
[23:02] Speaker 1: what is happening in Sydney. Chari Markson is my colleague
[23:06] Speaker 1: and friend. I wanted to talk to her now because yes,
[23:08] Speaker 1: she is at Bondai, but also we know that she
[23:11] Speaker 1: has dedicated much of the past two years to exposing
[23:16] Speaker 1: the fear that her and other members of her community
[23:19] Speaker 1: have had to what has eventually turned out to happen. Charie.
[23:24] Speaker 1: It's also been incredible to see the number of people
[23:26] Speaker 1: that have turned up to Bondai, to see people that
[23:31] Speaker 1: maybe of no faith all faith, that it very much is
[23:34] Speaker 1: an embracing moment. We hope that that embracing moment had
[23:39] Speaker 1: happened two years ago, but we know that there was
[23:42] Speaker 1: the madness at the opera house. The idea that it
[23:45] Speaker 1: has had to take this level of violence, this amount
[23:47] Speaker 1: of death, shocks me. Does it shock you?
[23:55] Speaker 10: Look, we're not surprised that it's come to this because
[23:59] Speaker 10: how many Paul have we spoken on air? Have I
[24:02] Speaker 10: had guests on my show saying this is where this
[24:05] Speaker 10: is leading to a loss of life. We said it
[24:07] Speaker 10: so many times. But then last night when it actually happened,
[24:13] Speaker 10: was a major shock that there's no doubt about that.
[24:17] Speaker 10: We were all beyond words at the scale of the
[24:21] Speaker 10: mass casualties, the fact that a ten year old girl
[24:25] Speaker 10: has been killed. I mean the footage I played a
[24:27] Speaker 10: bit earlier where you can see the gunman flying into
[24:31] Speaker 10: the crowd, and there's women and children and others hiding
[24:35] Speaker 10: under chairs. I mean, as Alex Riftrin put it earlier,
[24:39] Speaker 10: it was like we were just lambs to the slaughter.
[24:42] Speaker 10: No one seemed to take this seriously or care about
[24:45] Speaker 10: the community. And then when this devastation did happen, a
[24:49] Speaker 10: mass shooting, a terrorist attack at Bondi Beach right behind me,
[24:54] Speaker 10: nothing could be more shocking, even though this is clearly
[24:58] Speaker 10: where it was heading over the past two years, and
[25:01] Speaker 10: everyone knew it, including the ASIO Director General Mike Burgess,
[25:05] Speaker 10: who couldn't have issued more public warnings. Why wasn't he
[25:10] Speaker 10: listened to Why didn't the Prime Minister actually listen to
[25:13] Speaker 10: what the head of our intelligence agency had to say.
[25:17] Speaker 1: There's another response from the Prime Minister to these very
[25:20] Speaker 1: questions that I'll get to in a moment or two
[25:21] Speaker 1: times he's done an interview yet again this evening. Give
[25:24] Speaker 1: me an idea as well. You quite correctly pointed out
[25:28] Speaker 1: in our Life coverage last night that in the Jewish
[25:30] Speaker 1: faith you want to bury the dead within a couple
[25:34] Speaker 1: of days. That process, of course, means we're talking about tomorrow,
[25:38] Speaker 1: potentially Wednesday, the strain and stress on all of the synagogues,
[25:45] Speaker 1: the systems that are put in place when you are
[25:47] Speaker 1: dealing with fifteen people of obvious faith, The behind the
[25:53] Speaker 1: scenes must be quite chaotic for the community trying to
[25:59] Speaker 1: prepare to make sure that in death they're honored in
[26:02] Speaker 1: the way in which the faith demands.
[26:06] Speaker 10: Yeah, it's going to be a terrible next couple of days.
[26:10] Speaker 10: As the fifteen victims so far, Paul and I do
[26:13] Speaker 10: expect there will be more who die from their injuries
[26:18] Speaker 10: in hospital. There are six in a critical condition and
[26:22] Speaker 10: we pray that they recover, but the likelihood is might
[26:25] Speaker 10: be there might be some more fatalities. It's going to
[26:28] Speaker 10: be a terrible next few days as family and friends
[26:32] Speaker 10: and the community farewell those who were killed here.
[26:37] Speaker 11: You know, a ten year old girl, How does a
[26:39] Speaker 11: ten year old girl? It just breaks my heart. How
[26:42] Speaker 11: does a ten year old gold?
[26:43] Speaker 10: When we heard that last night, when people were coming
[26:46] Speaker 10: out of the sea and saying a ten year old
[26:47] Speaker 10: girl was shot, you just think how in Australia, also
[26:51] Speaker 10: community leaders, the two rabbis you know, much loved by
[26:56] Speaker 10: the Jewish community.
[26:57] Speaker 11: It's horrific.
[26:58] Speaker 10: Paul, I don't know how we as a Jewish community,
[27:02] Speaker 10: but also as Australia. I don't know how we move
[27:04] Speaker 10: on from this. I don't know how we recover from this.
[27:06] Speaker 10: It feels to me now like life will never be
[27:09] Speaker 10: the same. We've lost our sense of safety in public life,
[27:14] Speaker 10: in public spaces in Australia.
[27:17] Speaker 1: Just looking at photos of Matilda and many others. We
[27:20] Speaker 1: started our program half an hour ago with a deliberate
[27:23] Speaker 1: minute silence to observe those of whom we have now
[27:26] Speaker 1: started to learn more about. I just want to take
[27:30] Speaker 1: a full screenshot if we can, of the Sydney Opera
[27:32] Speaker 1: House where right now the image of a Manora has
[27:37] Speaker 1: been placed on the main sale of the Opera househitifore. Yeah,
[27:41] Speaker 1: it is this moment where as we remember but on.
[27:45] Speaker 11: The premiere for doing that.
[27:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, correct, because we remember after October the seventh, The
[27:51] Speaker 1: whole flashpoint was about the plan to put the Israeli
[27:53] Speaker 1: flag after the events of October the seventh, That of
[27:56] Speaker 1: course did not happen with such prominence. It happened on
[27:58] Speaker 1: the other side. But this is the most prominent symbol
[28:02] Speaker 1: we have in our city, with the most prominent reference
[28:05] Speaker 1: to the Jewish community. Again, speak to that admiration of
[28:10] Speaker 1: the premiere because this is important. That it didn't happen
[28:12] Speaker 1: in two nights time, three nights time, there wasn't a
[28:14] Speaker 1: big fussil commotion. It has happened, and it's happened tonight
[28:18] Speaker 1: and thankfully it's a symbol and in this time of
[28:21] Speaker 1: wanting to bring light to darkness, that's an image of
[28:25] Speaker 1: light that goes around the world.
[28:28] Speaker 12: You know.
[28:29] Speaker 10: I think it's really important, Paul, that New Southwis Premier
[28:32] Speaker 10: Chris Mens has done this, has let up the opera
[28:35] Speaker 10: house with the Kanukia as we are now on the
[28:38] Speaker 10: second night of Karnuka, because to me, it symbolizes solidarity,
[28:43] Speaker 10: that the whole of Australia is with us, that we
[28:47] Speaker 10: are cared for, that we're not forgotten. And while there
[28:52] Speaker 10: have been enormous failings by all governments, all law enforcement,
[28:58] Speaker 10: and universe leadership and other leaders as well, I do
[29:03] Speaker 10: believe that the Premier, and of course he could have
[29:05] Speaker 10: done more. And I'm sure if he was standing here
[29:07] Speaker 10: he'd say he'd be thinking back going what more could
[29:10] Speaker 10: have done? Is there anything he could have done to
[29:13] Speaker 10: prevent this? But his heart has always been in the
[29:17] Speaker 10: right place. I have never for a moment doubted his
[29:21] Speaker 10: commitment to eradicating anti Semitism.
[29:23] Speaker 11: You can tell it's genuine. You can tell it's authentic.
[29:26] Speaker 10: Just the same way that you can tell when you
[29:28] Speaker 10: watch the Prime Minister speaking last night and this morning,
[29:31] Speaker 10: that he doesn't share that same emotion.
[29:34] Speaker 11: You know, you can see it.
[29:36] Speaker 10: You can't fake empathy and authenticity and care. So I'm
[29:41] Speaker 10: so pleased the Premier has done that tonight. It does
[29:43] Speaker 10: mean a lot. Means a lot to me, and I
[29:45] Speaker 10: know it don't mean a lot to the whole community.
[29:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so. The City Morning Herald is reporting
[29:51] Speaker 1: as we speak that they've had a conversation with someone
[29:54] Speaker 1: representing the hero of this situation, that being Ahmad el
[29:58] Speaker 1: Ahmed and speaking on his behalf. They've said that he
[30:03] Speaker 1: doesn't regret what he did. He said he'd do it again,
[30:06] Speaker 1: but the pain is starting to take a toll. This
[30:09] Speaker 1: is after visiting in hospital. He's not well, he's riddled
[30:13] Speaker 1: with bullets. Our hero is struggling at the moment. Now again,
[30:18] Speaker 1: there are honest conversations to be had about radical Islam,
[30:22] Speaker 1: about the targeting of Jews. There is no hiding in
[30:25] Speaker 1: and around all of that. But so beautiful is this
[30:29] Speaker 1: man and what he did that, even while risking his life,
[30:33] Speaker 1: he said he'd do it again. What an incredible bloke
[30:36] Speaker 1: this guy is. And he's just one of the most visible,
[30:39] Speaker 1: but just one of a lot of people who saved
[30:42] Speaker 1: even more people from being murdered.
[30:47] Speaker 10: Look, he is beyond a hero. The courage, the strength,
[30:53] Speaker 10: the bravery that he showed in that moment, Paul, he
[30:56] Speaker 10: rushed in towards the danger, towards a gunman, knocked him over,
[31:01] Speaker 10: took the rifle off him and then started shooting at him.
[31:04] Speaker 10: I mean, we cannot thank him enough from the bottom
[31:08] Speaker 10: of our hearts.
[31:09] Speaker 11: He because of him, because of his actions.
[31:12] Speaker 10: More people weren't killed here, More Jewish Australians weren't killed.
[31:17] Speaker 11: What an incredible man.
[31:18] Speaker 10: And you know you reference Paul radical Islam.
[31:22] Speaker 11: You know this man, I understand it is a Muslim.
[31:25] Speaker 11: There is no issue with Muslims. Many are incredibly supportive.
[31:30] Speaker 6: Of course.
[31:31] Speaker 10: The issue is with extremist radical Islam. We're hearing some
[31:37] Speaker 10: shouting in the background on Tony Burke. So it looks
[31:41] Speaker 10: like Tony Burke might have just turned up, Is that right,
[31:43] Speaker 10: Chris Kenny? Here, we think Tony Burke has just turned up.
[31:49] Speaker 11: The scene of the memorial.
[31:50] Speaker 10: Yes, so he's just walking out now, so everyone is
[31:54] Speaker 10: yelling shame on you, Tony Burke. He has just paid
[31:58] Speaker 10: his respects and now he's he's leaving, and he got
[32:02] Speaker 10: heckled and yelled at as he left.
[32:05] Speaker 1: Extraordinary where we saw.
[32:07] Speaker 10: Also, this is the reaction because this is incredible anger
[32:10] Speaker 10: towards the Home Affairs Minister, you know, who has secretly
[32:15] Speaker 10: said he wouldn't block the return of Isis Brides, who
[32:18] Speaker 10: has been so divisive, who hasn't taken action on anti Semitism.
[32:23] Speaker 11: And this is the result.
[32:24] Speaker 10: This is a reaction he gets as he comes to
[32:26] Speaker 10: pay his respects.
[32:27] Speaker 1: He is heckled well and doing so. Again. It's nine
[32:31] Speaker 1: point thirty at night. Prime Minister was there during the
[32:36] Speaker 1: breakfast hours. There been many an opportunity whether the assumption
[32:40] Speaker 1: from him and his staff was that because there is
[32:43] Speaker 1: not a live programming on the commercial stations, the expectation
[32:48] Speaker 1: is that again your program would have gone dark by
[32:51] Speaker 1: this time. Again, the timing in and around that the
[32:54] Speaker 1: part of the chat not to mention the distasteful appearance
[32:58] Speaker 1: today of Marine Ferouki. I say so because well, yes,
[33:02] Speaker 1: she may well be saying the right things about the
[33:05] Speaker 1: honoring of those that are dead. And I'm not suggesting
[33:08] Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form that she has supported
[33:11] Speaker 1: things that have happened in the past. But remember she
[33:13] Speaker 1: stood in front of She's been sort of blithe to
[33:18] Speaker 1: the hateful things that have been said, including and again
[33:21] Speaker 1: I repeat, I'm not making some suggestion of some connection here,
[33:24] Speaker 1: but remember the deleted post about standing in front of
[33:26] Speaker 1: a photo of somebody saying the best place for the
[33:29] Speaker 1: Jews is to go in the bin. Some of these people,
[33:31] Speaker 1: while I understand they want to be part of the
[33:33] Speaker 1: moment of national unity, I think pumping the brakes and
[33:36] Speaker 1: finding out other times to be there. But again, because
[33:38] Speaker 1: I know she can be quite litigious on these matters,
[33:41] Speaker 1: I'm making no suggestion whatsoever in any sort of endorsement
[33:43] Speaker 1: of the vitriol or even of anything worse. But we
[33:48] Speaker 1: all saw your confrontation and conversation, and good on you
[33:51] Speaker 1: for doing so a bit earlier. Tonight, I'll let you go,
[33:53] Speaker 1: and it's been a long time. Congrats and thank you
[33:56] Speaker 1: on the coverage. I should say, and this is the
[33:57] Speaker 1: wrong word at this time, but again, strength and love
[33:59] Speaker 1: to you. And everyone else in the community who you
[34:01] Speaker 1: have and continue to represent. So well, all right, quick
[34:04] Speaker 1: break back with more. I'm going to show the Prime
[34:06] Speaker 1: Minister and what he's had to say tonight. He's made
[34:08] Speaker 1: an appearance on the ABC. I will let the answers
[34:12] Speaker 1: speak for themselves. The Opposition leader will join us as
[34:15] Speaker 1: well again tonight we're going to get into some tough questions.
[34:18] Speaker 1: The focus remains the victims. We'll keep showing you everything
[34:21] Speaker 1: as it happens in and around Bondi because now is
[34:24] Speaker 1: that time of recognition. The next couple of days when
[34:27] Speaker 1: it comes to funerals, means even more heightened emotions. We're
[34:31] Speaker 1: on a long road with this. We're here for two
[34:33] Speaker 1: hours tonight. Thank you so much for watching Sky News
[34:36] Speaker 1: on a very difficult time for Australia. This happened here
[34:39] Speaker 1: and we've got to do everything we can to make
[34:40] Speaker 1: sure that it doesn't happen again. Now National Cabinet has
[34:51] Speaker 1: been convened by the Prime Minister, and as we did
[34:54] Speaker 1: during COVID, I will now go through in some detail
[34:57] Speaker 1: what has happened there and the leading in the meeting
[35:00] Speaker 1: of the premiers and the Prime Minister. Their focus in
[35:03] Speaker 1: the early days is about gun issues. Now there's other
[35:08] Speaker 1: issues they've got to deal with. This is part of
[35:10] Speaker 1: the picture. Why because twenty twenty three is when a
[35:15] Speaker 1: national firearms registry was announced. It is now almost twenty
[35:18] Speaker 1: twenty six. But we're told for a whole bunch of reasons,
[35:21] Speaker 1: including oh, some are on old school paper and it's
[35:24] Speaker 1: hard to go find the files to you name it.
[35:27] Speaker 1: About the implementation, it's looking like it's back part of
[35:30] Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven, maybe even into twenty twenty eight. That
[35:33] Speaker 1: has to be dealt with. Obviously, the exchange of criminal intelligence.
[35:38] Speaker 1: You would imagine that after the events of many things
[35:41] Speaker 1: that have come and gone, including LINT a couple of
[35:43] Speaker 1: years ago, and the events of twenty five years ago,
[35:47] Speaker 1: that there'd be even better movement between state and federal authorities.
[35:52] Speaker 1: We know in the scenario here of the father that
[35:55] Speaker 1: there were multiple guns, a conversation about whether or not
[36:00] Speaker 1: you have to continually be reapplying for the license to
[36:06] Speaker 1: own a gun, And unbelievably, all the governments red blue,
[36:11] Speaker 1: the ones you like, the ones, the ones you voted for,
[36:13] Speaker 1: the ones you can't stand, have all somehow led a
[36:17] Speaker 1: system in place where you didn't have to be an
[36:19] Speaker 1: Australian citizen to have a gun license. Really now good,
[36:25] Speaker 1: that'll be fixed. Their suggestions are that the news of
[36:28] Speaker 1: Wales Parliament in and of itself will be able to
[36:32] Speaker 1: be brought back, maybe as soon as possible, to try
[36:34] Speaker 1: to pass some of this stuff. Presumably the Federal Parliament
[36:38] Speaker 1: would be able to be called back as well, but
[36:39] Speaker 1: we'll all wait and see whether that takes place. But
[36:42] Speaker 1: as you heard in the back end of our conversation
[36:44] Speaker 1: with Charry markson the Home Affairs Minister, and then remember
[36:47] Speaker 1: the purview around things like Federal Police, like AZO, all
[36:51] Speaker 1: of those agencies are now in and around well, a
[36:54] Speaker 1: mixture of the Attorney General's Office, but also significant areas
[36:58] Speaker 1: around national security is Home Affairs and Tony Burke did
[37:03] Speaker 1: go to the memorial in the past few minutes after
[37:06] Speaker 1: nine o'clock in Bondai, after much of the television cameras
[37:11] Speaker 1: had started to be turned off. But we were there
[37:13] Speaker 1: and this is what happened.
[37:15] Speaker 12: What shame shame on you.
[37:24] Speaker 1: Well. I also want to be very clear that my
[37:26] Speaker 1: apologies in the earlier part of the program if I
[37:30] Speaker 1: had mentioned that a police officer had died and I
[37:33] Speaker 1: think of their back and forth conversation in around Mark Murray.
[37:36] Speaker 1: On nights like this, you've got many spinning plates. I
[37:38] Speaker 1: apologize to anyone distressed by me getting that information incorrect,
[37:43] Speaker 1: as we say, and as we are having the conversation.
[37:46] Speaker 1: So again, sincerely apologize. But there is a lot of
[37:49] Speaker 1: information to keep our head around, and yep, we'll drop
[37:53] Speaker 1: the ball from time to time. I apologize for doing so.
[37:55] Speaker 1: Susan Lee is the opposition leader, and she joins us
[37:58] Speaker 1: now in the studio. Susan, I'm sorry that this is
[38:00] Speaker 1: the occasion under which we are in the studio. You've
[38:02] Speaker 1: spent a lot of time today in and around Bondi
[38:05] Speaker 1: and with the Jewish community. What are they saying to you?
[38:10] Speaker 5: I have, Paul, I've spent several hours with them this
[38:13] Speaker 5: morning early afternoon, and then I've just come from a
[38:16] Speaker 5: service at a synagogue in Bondi. I've just got to say,
[38:21] Speaker 5: you know, when I spend time with Jewish women, they
[38:24] Speaker 5: are vibrant, they are strong, they are laughing, and I
[38:27] Speaker 5: have such incredible memories of those times to sit with
[38:32] Speaker 5: a group of Jewish women and just hear them quietly.
[38:35] Speaker 5: Sobbing tonight was one of the toughest things about all
[38:39] Speaker 5: of this for me, because they have lost so much
[38:45] Speaker 5: and there is palpable anger. Yes, there's deep sorrow and
[38:50] Speaker 5: deep distress and all of the things that you and
[38:52] Speaker 5: your amazing programming Sky News Shari, who I just thought
[38:56] Speaker 5: was incredible last night and incredible today and all of
[38:59] Speaker 5: your have captured so so well. But you have to
[39:04] Speaker 5: hear that anger for yourself when you walk the streets
[39:07] Speaker 5: as I did, and people stop you and not angry
[39:11] Speaker 5: with me, but they're very angry. Can I be frank
[39:15] Speaker 5: with the government because they say they're tired of all
[39:18] Speaker 5: these words and the words have got to stop and
[39:22] Speaker 5: something has to be done. And my point today in
[39:25] Speaker 5: the call that I made publicly to the Prime Minister
[39:28] Speaker 5: is I've offered bipartisan support for any measures that need
[39:31] Speaker 5: to come through the agencies, the policing services, etc. In
[39:35] Speaker 5: the immediate response. But we have the report from Jillian
[39:38] Speaker 5: Siegel and it is comprehensive and it has recommendations, and
[39:43] Speaker 5: it has been sitting there for months and it needs
[39:46] Speaker 5: to be acted on because Paul, you're mentioning these National
[39:48] Speaker 5: Cabinet recommendations, you know, all very sensible and so on.
[39:54] Speaker 5: As I'm sure we'll start to look through them. But
[39:57] Speaker 5: it takes a long time for the States to do
[39:59] Speaker 5: in a thing, you know that they sit around the table,
[40:03] Speaker 5: they put out some nice communic has and then everything
[40:06] Speaker 5: sort of goes into a bit of a black hole.
[40:09] Speaker 5: But this report is done, these recommendations are ready to
[40:13] Speaker 5: be implemented, and it needs to happen because the community
[40:17] Speaker 5: needs to see action.
[40:18] Speaker 1: And I know that some people have been specifically angry
[40:22] Speaker 1: about the Prime Minister also having the Islamophobia Report, but
[40:27] Speaker 1: that's on his desk too. That's the issue here is
[40:30] Speaker 1: that these are long standing issues and I'm not talking
[40:34] Speaker 1: about the historic I'm talking about the reality of Australia
[40:37] Speaker 1: and how to deal with them. He's got this information,
[40:39] Speaker 1: he's got these advocates, but again that sense of urgency
[40:44] Speaker 1: and the community, because we all know the truth is
[40:48] Speaker 1: that no community, any community, can have some permanent bubble
[40:51] Speaker 1: and guarantee of absolute safety at all times. But when
[40:54] Speaker 1: itself is saying part of why we feel unsafe is
[40:58] Speaker 1: because of inndation one through, what does it say to
[41:03] Speaker 1: you about the lack of urgency or ongoing public engagement
[41:08] Speaker 1: about wanting to allay those fears.
[41:11] Speaker 5: Exactly, where's the contact with the community, where's the bringing
[41:16] Speaker 5: of the community, the Jewish community in into the Prime
[41:19] Speaker 5: Minister's office, into the halls of government for an ongoing conversation. Okay,
[41:23] Speaker 5: we want to work with you, because what you've described
[41:27] Speaker 5: is a government that thinks that anti Semitism is a
[41:31] Speaker 5: problem to be managed, not an evil to be eradicated.
[41:36] Speaker 5: And that's what's making the community so angry and distressed.
[41:40] Speaker 5: I spoke to a young man tonight who just came
[41:43] Speaker 5: up to me and told me how someone had died
[41:46] Speaker 5: in his arms, and how two other people he'd held
[41:51] Speaker 5: them waiting for help to arrive, and just to look
[41:55] Speaker 5: into his eyes and see what he had been through
[41:59] Speaker 5: less than twenty five four hours ago. And I said
[42:02] Speaker 5: to him, where are you going now? And he said,
[42:04] Speaker 5: I'm going home alone. I really worry about that. I
[42:08] Speaker 5: worry about the I mean the trauma, the fact that
[42:14] Speaker 5: no one has words for this, and no one can
[42:16] Speaker 5: describe the effect that it's going to have except to
[42:19] Speaker 5: say that it has changed the country forever. But our
[42:23] Speaker 5: leaders need to take action. And anti Semitism has been
[42:29] Speaker 5: boiling since October seven, twenty twenty three. I have spoken
[42:34] Speaker 5: to so many members of the Jewish community in the
[42:35] Speaker 5: last two years. You have to your reporters have and
[42:39] Speaker 5: they've had these examples, and I can't believe that we
[42:45] Speaker 5: just haven't seen where this would go in terms of
[42:49] Speaker 5: our Prime Minister and his ministers and the actions that
[42:53] Speaker 5: they haven't taken to address this hideous, hideous scourge.
[42:58] Speaker 1: As you know, Joshenberg did a documentary for us. One
[43:03] Speaker 1: of the questions he asked one of the great modern
[43:05] Speaker 1: prime ministers and John how does what would he have
[43:08] Speaker 1: done if he was leading Australia in and after the
[43:11] Speaker 1: time of Octaber seventh He said he would have picked
[43:14] Speaker 1: up the phone so that they're Opposition leader Kim Beasley
[43:17] Speaker 1: and would have let's stand together in the Prime Minister's courtyard,
[43:20] Speaker 1: equal standing and let's say what is acceptable and not acceptable?
[43:24] Speaker 1: What is the red lines and what is the need
[43:27] Speaker 1: to deal with the scourg Has any offer been made
[43:34] Speaker 1: to you to be briefed about what the government knows.
[43:38] Speaker 5: I spoke to the Prime Minister last night and again
[43:40] Speaker 5: this morning. I asked for a security briefing, which I
[43:43] Speaker 5: had later today. And that's as far as it's gone.
[43:45] Speaker 5: And I appreciate that, but the Prime Minister knows how
[43:49] Speaker 5: we feel. We called for a national cabinet months ago.
[43:54] Speaker 5: We called for the States and the Commonwealth to sit
[43:57] Speaker 5: at the table and work out, Okay, how do we
[43:59] Speaker 5: get through this, How do we work together? How do
[44:01] Speaker 5: we stop making excuses about things that can't be done
[44:04] Speaker 5: and work on the things that can be done, should
[44:06] Speaker 5: be done and must be done.
[44:08] Speaker 11: We called for that.
[44:09] Speaker 5: My amazing colleague Julian Lisa has put forward private members
[44:12] Speaker 5: bills designed to sanction the universities for our hate speech
[44:17] Speaker 5: and what we've seen on campuses. There's been many, many actions.
[44:21] Speaker 5: We adopted the recommendations in opposition of all of Jillian's
[44:24] Speaker 5: Seagull's report, and we want that to happen. The government
[44:28] Speaker 5: knows where we stand and we need to see action
[44:33] Speaker 5: from them that meets the community and indeed the entire
[44:37] Speaker 5: Australian population where they expect their government to be.
[44:40] Speaker 1: Right now to things i'd like you to quickly respond
[44:43] Speaker 1: to about the Prime Minister who didn't interview This evening
[44:46] Speaker 1: on the seven thirty on the ABC, he was asked
[44:50] Speaker 1: by its host about the reaction which has come from
[44:53] Speaker 1: the Israeli Prime Minister Benjaminettnia, who will roll the tape
[44:57] Speaker 1: to have a look at his answer.
[45:01] Speaker 3: Prime Minister net and Yahoo said today he singled you
[45:04] Speaker 3: out personally, he said, for pouring fuel on the antisemitism
[45:07] Speaker 3: fire by recognizing a Palestinian state. Do you accept any
[45:11] Speaker 3: link between that recognition and the massacre in Bondai.
[45:14] Speaker 13: No, I don't, and overwhelmingly most of the world recognizes
[45:21] Speaker 13: a two state solution as being the way forward in
[45:25] Speaker 13: the Middle East.
[45:27] Speaker 1: Now again, you've had your differences in and around recognition.
[45:31] Speaker 1: What's your thought to his response to the criticism which
[45:34] Speaker 1: has come from the Israeli Prime Minister. Again, this is
[45:37] Speaker 1: an Australian tragedy, but the comments have come from a
[45:40] Speaker 1: significant world leader.
[45:42] Speaker 5: It could have answered that question by talking about what
[45:45] Speaker 5: his government will do to tackle antisemitism and reassure the
[45:48] Speaker 5: Jewish community. Instead, he's gone to his political talking points
[45:52] Speaker 5: about you and recognition, something that we criticized at the
[45:55] Speaker 5: time with very good reason. As leader of the opposition here,
[46:00] Speaker 5: my job is always to focus on the national interest,
[46:02] Speaker 5: our communities and the safety and security of our communities.
[46:06] Speaker 5: But I can understand the frustration from so many including
[46:10] Speaker 5: the words that I heard today for the inaction that
[46:16] Speaker 5: they have seen over the last two and a half
[46:18] Speaker 5: years in a rising tide of antisemitism. We've seen this
[46:21] Speaker 5: beautiful city used as a backdrop for hate, bridge with
[46:26] Speaker 5: the march Our Opera House in the early days, the
[46:32] Speaker 5: inability of it seemed people to be shut down from
[46:36] Speaker 5: the things that they were saying and the evil that
[46:38] Speaker 5: they were spouting. And I just felt that sense of
[46:41] Speaker 5: despair today when the rest of the world is looking
[46:44] Speaker 5: at Sydney and this is what they're seeing. We can
[46:46] Speaker 5: be much better than this, and we must be much
[46:49] Speaker 5: better than this, and we must recognize that for Jewish Australians,
[46:53] Speaker 5: they've seen.
[46:54] Speaker 11: This, they've marked it and.
[47:00] Speaker 1: The tide coming in.
[47:00] Speaker 11: They've seen the tide coming in.
[47:02] Speaker 5: I mean when I went to the East Melbourne Synagogue
[47:04] Speaker 5: and realized that little four year old children are high
[47:08] Speaker 5: fiving guards with long arms as they go into kindergarten
[47:11] Speaker 5: and that's normal.
[47:13] Speaker 12: You know.
[47:14] Speaker 5: You think of the four year olds in your life
[47:15] Speaker 5: and we wouldn't accept that. We mustn't accept that. And
[47:19] Speaker 5: the parents who said to me, some days I just
[47:22] Speaker 5: wake up and I read something online and I think
[47:25] Speaker 5: I can't send my child to school today and I
[47:28] Speaker 5: just closed the front door.
[47:31] Speaker 11: Today.
[47:31] Speaker 5: Kids were saying that they want to change out of
[47:34] Speaker 5: their school uniform and go to school in plain clothes
[47:38] Speaker 5: so nobody sees them. This has been building, Paul, this
[47:41] Speaker 5: is this is awful. And today I saw these teenage girls,
[47:45] Speaker 5: beautiful girls, just sitting on the grass at the pavilion
[47:49] Speaker 5: and they had no words. And I looked at them
[47:53] Speaker 5: and thought of the bright future that any young Australian
[47:56] Speaker 5: girl should have in a place like Bondai, in a
[47:59] Speaker 5: country like Australia, and they were just stripping with sadness
[48:03] Speaker 5: and it was heartbreaking. And I know that there are
[48:05] Speaker 5: so many examples of this, and that's why we're determined.
[48:09] Speaker 5: We're very determined to do whatever we can to affect
[48:13] Speaker 5: the change that Jewish Australians in particular need to see.
[48:17] Speaker 1: Today I can literally see the passion in your eyes
[48:19] Speaker 1: and know everyone can hear in your resolve. Here last
[48:23] Speaker 1: one before I'll let you go again, Prime Minister ABC. Tonight,
[48:28] Speaker 1: he was asked, well, the question was done in this way.
[48:32] Speaker 1: I think we've left it in what I'm about to
[48:34] Speaker 1: show you, and then his response, I know there's plenty
[48:37] Speaker 1: of people who'd like to hear your answer to the
[48:40] Speaker 1: same question. So let's have a look.
[48:42] Speaker 3: When the inevitable calls come arise from some parts of
[48:46] Speaker 3: our society linking the Bondai massacre to Muslim immigration to Australia,
[48:51] Speaker 3: how will you respond that what.
[48:54] Speaker 13: We've seen in the last twenty four hours ago I
[49:01] Speaker 13: was the worst of humanity in a terrorist act.
[49:06] Speaker 1: But we also saw.
[49:08] Speaker 13: An example of the best of humanity in armored Lamed
[49:14] Speaker 13: running towards danger, putting his own life at risk, being
[49:19] Speaker 13: shot twice by the second perpetrator as he took the
[49:24] Speaker 13: gum bravely of this terrorist, and that saved lives. We
[49:31] Speaker 13: in Australia, regardless of where people who, people believe in,
[49:36] Speaker 13: what their faith is, or whether they have no faith
[49:38] Speaker 13: or overwhelmingly, we are a great nation and we are
[49:42] Speaker 13: not going to allow anyone, let alone these terrorists to
[49:46] Speaker 13: divide us.
[49:48] Speaker 1: Now again, the absolute it's not merely mouth words, it's
[49:52] Speaker 1: the obvious words, right, which is that people coming from
[49:55] Speaker 1: all over the world. That's our modern story, right, the
[49:57] Speaker 1: idea that there's a threshold about which faith and that's
[50:01] Speaker 1: not the issue here, but better screening in and around
[50:04] Speaker 1: fundamental questions that can be asked if people seems fairly
[50:09] Speaker 1: obvious here you've spoken about values tests and the rest
[50:12] Speaker 1: your response to the Prime Minister.
[50:15] Speaker 5: People who come to Australia need to share our core values,
[50:18] Speaker 5: to have a commitment to our country, to the rule
[50:21] Speaker 5: of law, to the dignity of the individual, to tolerance
[50:24] Speaker 5: and mutual respect. Successive Liberal governments have operated non discriminatory
[50:29] Speaker 5: migration policies and it's clear that the events that we've
[50:34] Speaker 5: seen are hideous anti semitism and that should be called out.
[50:41] Speaker 5: It shouldn't be moved to another discussion. It shouldn't be
[50:44] Speaker 5: hidden in the darkness. It should be brought into the light.
[50:47] Speaker 5: This is hideous, unacceptable, never before seen anti semitism in
[50:52] Speaker 5: this country. It is a targeting of Jewish people because
[50:56] Speaker 5: they are Jewish, and as leader of the position, I
[51:00] Speaker 5: will do all that I can and my team will
[51:03] Speaker 5: to force this government to protect Jewish Australians, to protect
[51:09] Speaker 5: Australians and to secure.
[51:11] Speaker 1: Justice Sustanly, thank you very much for coming in. I'm
[51:14] Speaker 1: sorry again that this is the occasion. Thank you for
[51:15] Speaker 1: spending there as much time as you did in and
[51:17] Speaker 1: around the community, and the discussions we'll be having you
[51:19] Speaker 1: in the future. Thank you, thank you. All right, quick
[51:22] Speaker 1: breakback with more here on Paul Murray Live Again. The
[51:25] Speaker 1: image of the Sydney Opera House which is going to
[51:27] Speaker 1: be sent around the world is that there is a
[51:30] Speaker 1: Manora marking Huneker and that is of course what the
[51:34] Speaker 1: entire focus and commemorations and celebrations were on a Sunday
[51:39] Speaker 1: night in Bondai. Well, the image going around the world
[51:41] Speaker 1: tonight is that which is currently live on the Opera House.
[51:46] Speaker 1: More in a moment here, our dear friend Chris Kenny
[51:48] Speaker 1: will join us next to thank you so much for watching.
[51:56] Speaker 1: We're about to enter our second hour tonight of Paul
[51:59] Speaker 1: Murray Live, like you or all, processing the emotions, the questions,
[52:04] Speaker 1: the confronting decisions that have to be taken after Australia
[52:08] Speaker 1: was changed forever, after fifteen people were killed. Let's not
[52:13] Speaker 1: say pass away, Let's not say die. They were killed,
[52:16] Speaker 1: and we know they were killed for whom they are,
[52:19] Speaker 1: for what they are, as opposed to anything else. This
[52:24] Speaker 1: is a disgrace that has taken place. A person who
[52:28] Speaker 1: has shared such rage is our dear friend Chris Kenny.
[52:32] Speaker 1: Chris is meant to be on summer holidays, but for
[52:33] Speaker 1: obvious reasons, he's on air tonight and he's on air
[52:37] Speaker 1: with us right now to talk about the urgency of
[52:40] Speaker 1: this moment, because as there is an urgency for funerals
[52:43] Speaker 1: in the next couple of days, it feels like today, Chris,
[52:47] Speaker 1: that there has been this incredibly sort of concertined process
[52:51] Speaker 1: of official visits, multiple briefings. You know that, the vigil
[52:58] Speaker 1: taking place, the house being lit up, these are things
[53:01] Speaker 1: that normally can take sort of a couple three days.
[53:04] Speaker 1: All of this is happening in a very tight time.
[53:08] Speaker 1: But I also wanted to engage with you to have
[53:10] Speaker 1: a chat about and just be two mates talking about
[53:14] Speaker 1: the potential distraction here, which is the gun laws of
[53:16] Speaker 1: it all. Now you and I are going to be
[53:18] Speaker 1: on an absolute unity ticket. The idea that a non
[53:20] Speaker 1: Australian citizen can own a freaking gun license is madness.
[53:24] Speaker 1: The idea that that said person who lives in the
[53:26] Speaker 1: city is able to have three, six, or however many
[53:30] Speaker 1: guns madness. But I want to see National Cabinet having
[53:33] Speaker 1: an urgent conversation about how do we get the message out,
[53:37] Speaker 1: how do we go and kick over all of those
[53:38] Speaker 1: stones and I agree with what you said in your
[53:42] Speaker 1: excellent program at five o'clock as the son was setting
[53:45] Speaker 1: in BONDI. Don't be distracted. The main game is what
[53:49] Speaker 1: we have to focus on.
[53:52] Speaker 12: Mate.
[53:52] Speaker 14: It's all diversions and distractions. They'll do anything, Anthony Albanezi
[53:57] Speaker 14: and his ministers, they'll do anything to avoid talking about
[54:01] Speaker 14: the real issues here. The real issues are anti Semitism
[54:05] Speaker 14: and Islamist extremism. That's the scourge that's gripped this country
[54:09] Speaker 14: over the past two years and gradually over the decades
[54:12] Speaker 14: before that. It's the scourge that hurt us at nine
[54:14] Speaker 14: to eleven in Bali, in numerous other terror attacks in
[54:17] Speaker 14: this country in the link to Cafe siege eleven years ago.
[54:22] Speaker 6: Today and now we've had.
[54:23] Speaker 14: What we always wanted to prevent in this country, a
[54:27] Speaker 14: mass casualty Islamist terrorist attack. And they're off talking about
[54:31] Speaker 14: gun laws and they light up a manora on the
[54:34] Speaker 14: Opera house. Now quickly whack it up before they could
[54:36] Speaker 14: tell anyone about it, otherwise the mob will be down
[54:39] Speaker 14: there protesting again, just like they wanted to go down
[54:42] Speaker 14: and protest and stop any Jewish Australians going there.
[54:46] Speaker 6: After October the seventh, twenty twenty three. It really is weak.
[54:50] Speaker 14: We just saw Tony Burke sneak through here, skulk through
[54:53] Speaker 14: here about twenty minutes ago, when they are about ten
[54:56] Speaker 14: percent of the people who were here compared to late
[54:59] Speaker 14: this afternoon. He can say he's been here to pay
[55:03] Speaker 14: his respects and he went off up there in the
[55:05] Speaker 14: darkness as people yelled out that he had blood on
[55:07] Speaker 14: his hands.
[55:08] Speaker 6: Look, this is really really important.
[55:11] Speaker 14: You know this, We all know this. We talk about
[55:13] Speaker 14: it on this station all the time. Social cohesion, inclusivity, tolerance, diversity.
[55:19] Speaker 6: In this country.
[55:20] Speaker 14: Yet we allow the Jewish Australians to be persecuted as
[55:25] Speaker 14: they have been over the last two years, with most
[55:27] Speaker 14: of the government funded media pumping out propaganda against them,
[55:31] Speaker 14: treating Zionists as if it's a dirty word, support for
[55:35] Speaker 14: a state of Israel being something evil. We've really got
[55:39] Speaker 14: to wake up to what's at stake here. A ten
[55:42] Speaker 14: year old girl shot dead just over there. Not a
[55:46] Speaker 14: Jewish girl, not a member of the Jewish community, an
[55:50] Speaker 14: Australian girl who happens to be Jewish, an Australian girl
[55:53] Speaker 14: who happened to be here at Bondai celebrating with her family,
[55:58] Speaker 14: and people go on about gun laws now because they
[56:01] Speaker 14: don't want to talk about the real issue. That's that's
[56:04] Speaker 14: why they're looking for the distraction on gun laws. It's
[56:06] Speaker 14: actually politically incredibly cynical too, because they know there'll be
[56:10] Speaker 14: a right wing reaction against gun controls, and so instead
[56:14] Speaker 14: of confronting all the evils of the extreme left over
[56:17] Speaker 14: the past two years, preaching hatred and river to the
[56:22] Speaker 14: sea and death to the idef, instead of confronting all
[56:26] Speaker 14: of that and all the impact that has had on
[56:29] Speaker 14: the Jewish community in Australia, instead of confronting their own
[56:32] Speaker 14: actions in rewarding terrorism by recognizing the non existent state
[56:37] Speaker 14: of Palestine, Instead of dealing with any of those critical issues,
[56:41] Speaker 14: they'll start a fight over here about gun laws. Well,
[56:44] Speaker 14: it is really tragic, but I hope Australians are starting
[56:46] Speaker 14: to wake up.
[56:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, my apologies. I mean also knowing the historic nature
[56:51] Speaker 1: and how proud Australians have been of gun laws as
[56:54] Speaker 1: the response to the events of thirty years ago. I
[56:57] Speaker 1: also started the show having a conversation about tone, and
[57:03] Speaker 1: people will say society has changed and muscular politics is
[57:06] Speaker 1: not what people all of that stuff. There are rights,
[57:08] Speaker 1: and there are wrongs, and they're out there that there
[57:10] Speaker 1: are abhorrent things that happen, and I want to see
[57:14] Speaker 1: a sense of calm, controlled rage. And I understand that
[57:17] Speaker 1: a prime minister or a premier doesn't behave like a
[57:21] Speaker 1: TV host or the people who might be watching. But
[57:24] Speaker 1: I got to say I had a sense around twenty
[57:27] Speaker 1: five years ago when the Western world and when places
[57:30] Speaker 1: like Australia actually went wow, okay, anything's a weapon and
[57:33] Speaker 1: everything's a target that our government said We're going to
[57:37] Speaker 1: kick out of every star, and I'm going to bash
[57:38] Speaker 1: in every door, and we're going to find any of
[57:41] Speaker 1: this stuff, We're going to treat it like a cancer,
[57:43] Speaker 1: and light cancer, you cut it out. No such, no
[57:47] Speaker 1: such feeling I have in what has been said today.
[57:50] Speaker 1: I'm sure people who dislike what you and I do
[57:53] Speaker 1: each and every day will say, well, that's because the
[57:54] Speaker 1: country's changed. But I'm sorry. That's what I want to
[57:57] Speaker 1: hear from a leader, one with a set of stones
[57:59] Speaker 1: and a back bone, who knows what they've got to do,
[58:02] Speaker 1: and that is to get rid of this crap.
[58:06] Speaker 14: Well, yeah, you just have to do it, Paul. There's
[58:09] Speaker 14: no other way to confront it now. Anthony Albanezi either
[58:13] Speaker 14: understands this and is too weak to confront it, or
[58:15] Speaker 14: he doesn't understand it.
[58:17] Speaker 6: I don't know which it is.
[58:18] Speaker 14: But the simple fact is if you're dealing with various
[58:20] Speaker 14: strands of anti Semitism which have been with us historically,
[58:23] Speaker 14: of course they manifest themselves in different ways, such as
[58:27] Speaker 14: the neo Nazis we've seen and the like, and the
[58:30] Speaker 14: major cause we're seeing around the world and in this country,
[58:32] Speaker 14: the Islamist extremism. You can't tackle that unless you actually
[58:36] Speaker 14: prepared to talk about it.
[58:37] Speaker 6: I don't think we ever hear the Prime Minister.
[58:38] Speaker 14: Even discussing Islamist extremism. And this is not a way
[58:42] Speaker 14: of demonizing Muslim Australians. Muslim Australians are the ones who
[58:46] Speaker 14: suffer most often from the actions of Islamist extremists.
[58:50] Speaker 6: But you've got to.
[58:51] Speaker 14: Talk about it, and you've got to engage the Muslim
[58:53] Speaker 14: communities in it. I still haven't seen him go out
[58:55] Speaker 14: to Lakember already the major Mosques and say we've got
[58:58] Speaker 14: to work on this problem to go together. The Jewish
[59:02] Speaker 14: Australians are actually suffering largely because of some of the
[59:04] Speaker 14: extreme elements of your own community.
[59:06] Speaker 6: What can we do about it?
[59:08] Speaker 12: Now?
[59:08] Speaker 14: He ignores all that, He ignores all that, and sa
[59:10] Speaker 14: his arm against Andy Semitism. And let's look at gun controls.
[59:14] Speaker 14: It's weak or it's ignorant, or it's both. And surely
[59:18] Speaker 14: it's time and the country said, we can wake up
[59:20] Speaker 14: and deal with this.
[59:21] Speaker 6: And as you say, and as.
[59:21] Speaker 14: John Howard recommended, and Josh mentioned that when I spoke
[59:25] Speaker 14: to him earlier tonight, engage the opposition.
[59:27] Speaker 6: It should be beyond politics.
[59:29] Speaker 14: The idea that the two major governing parties you can't
[59:33] Speaker 14: to actually coalesce around our national values, protecting our national values,
[59:38] Speaker 14: is ridiculous. They have to be hand in glove on
[59:41] Speaker 14: these issues. Inner still Australians shot dead on Bondai Beach.
[59:46] Speaker 14: They should be hand in glove working on a solution here.
[59:49] Speaker 14: The major parties, forget the Greens and the rabbit rousers,
[59:52] Speaker 14: the Coalition and the Labor Party should be able to
[59:55] Speaker 14: make sure that we stick with Australian values and Australian values.
[59:58] Speaker 14: We're just blown away here, the most disgusting savagery this
[1:00:01] Speaker 14: country's ever known.
[1:00:02] Speaker 1: Yeah again, thank you for the time tonight, the show
[1:00:05] Speaker 1: this afternoon before I let you go. I want to
[1:00:08] Speaker 1: show you Andrew Hasty, who of course is a man
[1:00:11] Speaker 1: who has confronted this on the behalf of us as
[1:00:14] Speaker 1: a member of the Australian Defense Force. We know in
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: politics he is a man who has set for great
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: things sooner or later, and he has said this on
[1:00:25] Speaker 1: Instagram this evening when saying we need to have the
[1:00:28] Speaker 1: tough conversation. I just wanted to get your reaction to
[1:00:30] Speaker 1: something he posted just before we came on a here.
[1:00:33] Speaker 15: I love Australia and I want our national leaders to succeed,
[1:00:37] Speaker 15: which is why it pains me to say this. But
[1:00:39] Speaker 15: Prime Minister Anthony Albanizi and his government failed the Australian
[1:00:42] Speaker 15: people and fifteen innocent people were gunned down in cold
[1:00:45] Speaker 15: blood yesterday at Bondai Beach. The Prime Minister has had
[1:00:49] Speaker 15: two years. All the warning signs were there as anti
[1:00:52] Speaker 15: Semitism in this country ramped up, and now, in a
[1:00:55] Speaker 15: cynical ploy to protect his voting based in Southwest Sydney,
[1:00:59] Speaker 15: he's trying to switch the conversation to gun reform. What
[1:01:02] Speaker 15: we really need to talk about is immigration, is citizenship,
[1:01:07] Speaker 15: is education. We need to talk about Australian values and
[1:01:10] Speaker 15: what we want our country to look like. This is
[1:01:12] Speaker 15: a really clear time where we need to differentiate between
[1:01:15] Speaker 15: those who love Australia, our people and our values and
[1:01:18] Speaker 15: those who hate us.
[1:01:19] Speaker 7: And the time is right now.
[1:01:21] Speaker 1: What do you think, Chris?
[1:01:24] Speaker 14: Look, I can't disagree with anything he said. I think
[1:01:27] Speaker 14: we've got to be careful with immigration. It's not simple,
[1:01:29] Speaker 14: it's not black and white. For instance, we know that
[1:01:31] Speaker 14: there was a Syrian immigrant, a Muslim Syrian immigrant, who
[1:01:35] Speaker 14: was the hero here yesterday and saved so many lives
[1:01:39] Speaker 14: by bravely disarming one of the gummer But we've got
[1:01:42] Speaker 14: to talk about immigration. We've got to make sure we
[1:01:44] Speaker 14: do what we can to keep fundamentalists and extremist people
[1:01:47] Speaker 14: out of this country. For instance, now the past two
[1:01:50] Speaker 14: years has not been the time to issue three thousand
[1:01:52] Speaker 14: visas to people from Gaza with cursory security checks. Also
[1:01:57] Speaker 14: start bringing in numbers of ISIS brides and the like.
[1:02:00] Speaker 14: This is risky and apart from the risks you take
[1:02:04] Speaker 14: with national security, you risk the support of the public.
[1:02:06] Speaker 14: So you should be very careful about that. So I
[1:02:08] Speaker 14: think you've got to have the conversation. But you can't
[1:02:11] Speaker 14: make it a simplistic one or one that actually demonizes
[1:02:15] Speaker 14: as immigration. I mean, so many members of the Jewish
[1:02:17] Speaker 14: community immigrants as well. But we've got to talk about
[1:02:20] Speaker 14: having a values based immigration system. People who come to
[1:02:24] Speaker 14: this country need to subscribe to being Australian and subscribe
[1:02:27] Speaker 14: to Australian value. So I think there's no doubt that
[1:02:31] Speaker 14: Anthony Albanezi has failed Australia. I also think there's no
[1:02:34] Speaker 14: doubt that if this terrible attack that we've seen now
[1:02:37] Speaker 14: had occurred under a coalition government, that we would have
[1:02:40] Speaker 14: the ABC and SBS and most of the Canberra Press
[1:02:43] Speaker 14: Gallery saying this is a failure of national security that
[1:02:46] Speaker 14: will be sheeted home to the federal government. So I
[1:02:49] Speaker 14: don't think it's surprising that coalition people would say this
[1:02:52] Speaker 14: about the Labor government. They should be responsible. I've never
[1:02:55] Speaker 14: seen so many warnings. I've been part of them myself
[1:02:58] Speaker 14: on air almost every night and even privately to Anthony Albanez,
[1:03:01] Speaker 14: he do something about this and he's just resolutely failed
[1:03:05] Speaker 14: to do so. So there should be a reckoning over this.
[1:03:09] Speaker 14: But he's got an opportunity, he is Prime Minister. Do something,
[1:03:13] Speaker 14: Do something now, do something better than putting a manura
[1:03:16] Speaker 14: on the opera house and talking about gun laws attack
[1:03:19] Speaker 14: the core issue here, which is the anti Semitism and
[1:03:22] Speaker 14: the Islamist extremism.
[1:03:24] Speaker 1: Well, we don't have much hope of a change. In course,
[1:03:29] Speaker 1: there is the opportunity, and I hope certainly that the
[1:03:31] Speaker 1: opportunity is presented to him. He understands it and he
[1:03:34] Speaker 1: sees it. But of course, you know there's something quite
[1:03:36] Speaker 1: reflexive at times about him, about the more that he
[1:03:38] Speaker 1: gets pushed in a direction he doesn't want to go.
[1:03:40] Speaker 1: We know what starts to happen. Chris. I'll let you go, mate.
[1:03:43] Speaker 1: Thank you very much. I really do appreciate it. All
[1:03:45] Speaker 1: the best to you and your family. Love bra and
[1:03:47] Speaker 1: thank you for your advocacy on all of this stuff
[1:03:50] Speaker 1: over many a time and your time before joining us
[1:03:53] Speaker 1: here at Sky. But all the best for Christmas mate.
[1:03:55] Speaker 1: We love him, mate, all the best of the family. Thanks Mane,
[1:03:58] Speaker 1: I love you. He's a good man, isn't it? Loving
[1:04:00] Speaker 1: to Chris Canny there at the Bondai Pavilion? All right,
[1:04:04] Speaker 1: Reminder that coverage continues of what is taking place all
[1:04:09] Speaker 1: the way through. We've Readapanehy as well. Who will be
[1:04:11] Speaker 1: here live at eleven o'clock australins in the daylight time.
[1:04:16] Speaker 1: There's also some disturbing reports we're starting to get about
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: some lunatics suggesting that there's some way to stand up
[1:04:23] Speaker 1: for Australia and all of that stuff. I'm going to
[1:04:25] Speaker 1: have to bang that on the head and we'll get
[1:04:26] Speaker 1: to that in a couple of minutes time. We've also
[1:04:29] Speaker 1: got some exclusive insight into the Bondai Rabbi, one of
[1:04:33] Speaker 1: those who was killed by friends who knew him very well.
[1:04:36] Speaker 1: A whole lot to get through, including potential new gun laws.
[1:04:39] Speaker 1: Have you got any questions, you can always send me
[1:04:40] Speaker 1: an email. Paulotsgodnews dot com dot au. Thanks for watching
[1:04:43] Speaker 1: Monday Night that we desperately, desperately, desperately hoped we'd never
[1:04:47] Speaker 1: have to deal with, but somehow we kind of knew
[1:04:50] Speaker 1: one day we would have to. Well. The Prime Minister's
[1:04:57] Speaker 1: response has left many of us feeling flat footed, many
[1:04:59] Speaker 1: of us feeling that there's greater passion shown on questions
[1:05:04] Speaker 1: he doesn't like in question time as opposed to the
[1:05:07] Speaker 1: realities that need to be dealt with in Australia that
[1:05:10] Speaker 1: have led to the situation of fifteen people being murdered,
[1:05:14] Speaker 1: not losing their lives, their lives being taken in this
[1:05:17] Speaker 1: terrorist attack. There are other examples of national leadership, including
[1:05:22] Speaker 1: Tony Abbott in his conversation with Peter Credlin, which was
[1:05:24] Speaker 1: spectacular tonight. If you missed it, please go and see
[1:05:27] Speaker 1: the whole thing at skyews dot com dot au. Here
[1:05:30] Speaker 1: is just part and talk about a bloke with clarity.
[1:05:33] Speaker 1: The shame he's not running the show. Imagine how he
[1:05:36] Speaker 1: would be reacting to this atrocity.
[1:05:39] Speaker 16: I think that what we've seen from all levels of
[1:05:42] Speaker 16: government in this country since October the seventh is handringing
[1:05:48] Speaker 16: impotence in the face of example after example of due hatred.
[1:05:54] Speaker 16: No hate preachers have been deported or prosecuted, no hate
[1:05:58] Speaker 16: marches have been We have a government which is comprised
[1:06:03] Speaker 16: of social justice warriors, not of national security warriors. What
[1:06:08] Speaker 16: Jewish Australians want is protection, not sympathy.
[1:06:12] Speaker 1: After the event blood the earth, I mean clear and succinct.
[1:06:17] Speaker 1: Right again, back to that sense of what I'm expecting
[1:06:20] Speaker 1: in this the first day of what's going to be
[1:06:23] Speaker 1: You know what this week's going to be like. It's
[1:06:25] Speaker 1: going to be tough. We'll go through it all. We'll
[1:06:27] Speaker 1: talk through it all. We'll get onto the big issues.
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: We'll talk about the human side of those that have
[1:06:34] Speaker 1: been taken from us. But imagine that clarity in an
[1:06:38] Speaker 1: interview as opposed to what you saw before from the
[1:06:40] Speaker 1: current Prime minister to me, it's chalk and cheese. What
[1:06:44] Speaker 1: do you think you want to send me that email
[1:06:46] Speaker 1: to the station You'll say it's gone news dot com
[1:06:48] Speaker 1: that you will meet personally. Paul, it's gonews dot com.
[1:06:52] Speaker 1: You one of those who was murdered taken from us yesterday,
[1:06:57] Speaker 1: as a man referred to as the Rabbi of bond
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: Day or the Bondai Rabbi. He was a man who
[1:07:05] Speaker 1: was just in his forties. He has five children, a
[1:07:10] Speaker 1: man who of course represents his community and has represented
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: it with such love. Rabbi Eli Schlanger Gabriella Power has
[1:07:21] Speaker 1: had an opportunity to speak to his father in law
[1:07:25] Speaker 1: about what they are doing in this the early hours
[1:07:28] Speaker 1: of a lifetime of grief.
[1:07:31] Speaker 8: As impossible as we seen at the moment, we get
[1:07:35] Speaker 8: through it get through because we have not the choice
[1:07:40] Speaker 8: to do it.
[1:07:42] Speaker 7: Those left us that would nothingness.
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: Friends of Ali have also come forward and spoken with
[1:07:51] Speaker 1: gab about their friend and a person who was such
[1:07:56] Speaker 1: an important part of that Eastern Suburbs community. He was
[1:08:00] Speaker 1: someone who just cared for everyone.
[1:08:02] Speaker 4: Whether you were the richest of the poorest or the
[1:08:05] Speaker 4: mightiest of the lowest, it didn't matter.
[1:08:07] Speaker 1: He just saw a holy soul and again that righteous
[1:08:11] Speaker 1: anger that exists inside the community, especially from those who
[1:08:15] Speaker 1: know the victims.
[1:08:17] Speaker 4: It needs to be action. Gillian Siegel had a plan.
[1:08:20] Speaker 4: It wasn't implemented. The excuses aren't good enough. We want
[1:08:24] Speaker 4: to see it implemented. Every single join this country wants
[1:08:26] Speaker 4: to see that implemented yesterday as a start.
[1:08:30] Speaker 1: You know, we don't want to hear slogans. We want action.
[1:08:32] Speaker 4: When globalized into fada is said imputently on the streets
[1:08:36] Speaker 4: of Sydney, it ends up in Bunda Beach with casualties.
[1:08:41] Speaker 1: Paul Toole is the former police minister in New South Wales.
[1:08:44] Speaker 1: He joins US now the conversation in around gun laws, yes,
[1:08:47] Speaker 1: can be described as a distraction, but let's still talk
[1:08:50] Speaker 1: about part of this year. How the hell have we
[1:08:52] Speaker 1: had a system where somebody who's not a citizen of
[1:08:54] Speaker 1: Australia is able to hold a firearms license.
[1:08:58] Speaker 17: Yeah, it's absolutely Paul, and I think at the end
[1:09:01] Speaker 17: of the day, there needs to be a good look
[1:09:03] Speaker 17: at the gun laws here in the state. But I think,
[1:09:05] Speaker 17: you know, fundamentally, you know, there are some questions here
[1:09:08] Speaker 17: that have to be asked. How does somebody living in
[1:09:11] Speaker 17: Sydney actually hold multiple gun licenses, they actually contain or
[1:09:16] Speaker 17: have multiple guns themselves, you know, because that's very different
[1:09:21] Speaker 17: compared to someone who's living in a regional center, who's
[1:09:23] Speaker 17: a farmer or a landholder that actually needs these weapons
[1:09:26] Speaker 17: for other purposes. But you know, it's absolutely ridiculous to
[1:09:30] Speaker 17: think that someone is able to have multiple guns, high
[1:09:34] Speaker 17: powered guns, and really I think that's something that needs
[1:09:37] Speaker 17: to be looked at even further.
[1:09:39] Speaker 1: In terms of the operation. Again, you know, the inside
[1:09:42] Speaker 1: of how the Missiba's police force works. This show's pro cop.
[1:09:46] Speaker 1: It's always pro cop, right why because they go towards
[1:09:48] Speaker 1: danger at all times. Intelligence and being able to keep
[1:09:53] Speaker 1: an eye on millions of people at once is a
[1:09:56] Speaker 1: really difficult thing to happen. Their response has been urgent,
[1:10:01] Speaker 1: but still, of course, questions are always there about levels
[1:10:06] Speaker 1: of security, levels of intelligence. Give me an idea on
[1:10:09] Speaker 1: the inside about what would be happening while both trying
[1:10:13] Speaker 1: to deal with this and also trying to understand how
[1:10:16] Speaker 1: this has happened about how it can do both of
[1:10:19] Speaker 1: those things at the same time.
[1:10:21] Speaker 17: Yeah, look, I think obviously there's two components. Yesterday, you know,
[1:10:24] Speaker 17: I think people were obviously getting reports of the attack
[1:10:28] Speaker 17: that we saw happening in Bondi, so there would have
[1:10:31] Speaker 17: been a lot of call outs. We saw police officers,
[1:10:34] Speaker 17: and we saw officers coming in from different commands across
[1:10:37] Speaker 17: the city and responded very quickly. Over the next few days,
[1:10:41] Speaker 17: there's going to be police investigations that are going to continue.
[1:10:45] Speaker 12: And that could actually go on for several weeks.
[1:10:47] Speaker 17: I've got to say that I am pleased at the
[1:10:50] Speaker 17: Police Commissioner did announced last night that the Terrorism Act
[1:10:53] Speaker 17: under section five and section six is going to be
[1:10:55] Speaker 17: enacted upon, because that does give our police extreme powers.
[1:11:00] Speaker 17: Gives our police the powers to be able to go
[1:11:02] Speaker 17: out there and target individuals who they feel may be
[1:11:05] Speaker 17: a part of this attack if they are involved as well,
[1:11:08] Speaker 17: and that gives them the power to get the names
[1:11:10] Speaker 17: and addresses of individuals, to go and search vehicles, to
[1:11:14] Speaker 17: enter their premises, and to detain items if need be,
[1:11:18] Speaker 17: and that's exactly what they need to do.
[1:11:20] Speaker 12: They don't need a warrant for this.
[1:11:21] Speaker 17: But when you see extreme measures like this happening here
[1:11:24] Speaker 17: in our country, there needs to be extreme measures to
[1:11:27] Speaker 17: ensure that our police are actually dealing with this situation.
[1:11:30] Speaker 17: And it might find that it may not be terrorists
[1:11:34] Speaker 17: that are actually involved directly, but there may be terrorists
[1:11:37] Speaker 17: who are actually indirectly involved, and that ensures that our
[1:11:40] Speaker 17: police are able to target them and able to arrest
[1:11:43] Speaker 17: them and disrupt their activities, because at the end of
[1:11:46] Speaker 17: the day, Australians deserve to feel safe. And now this
[1:11:50] Speaker 17: is not the country you know that I've grown up in,
[1:11:52] Speaker 17: and I'm heartbroken at the end of the day.
[1:11:55] Speaker 12: I've heard the Jewish.
[1:11:56] Speaker 17: Community now being saying for a long period of time
[1:12:00] Speaker 17: time that they feel unsafe. They have been telling the
[1:12:03] Speaker 17: governments this. The governments have not been listening, and unfortunately
[1:12:07] Speaker 17: we've seen a most horrific attack. And one of the
[1:12:09] Speaker 17: things that I saw today, Paul, was the fact that
[1:12:13] Speaker 17: every time you saw those images of innocent victims come up,
[1:12:18] Speaker 17: that's someone's loved one. You know, that's someone's daughter, that's
[1:12:22] Speaker 17: you know, someone's mother or father or grandmother, you know,
[1:12:25] Speaker 17: impacting in those communities.
[1:12:27] Speaker 12: And we have to do more.
[1:12:29] Speaker 17: And we've got to make sure that we're listening to
[1:12:32] Speaker 17: the communities that are saying this has been going on
[1:12:34] Speaker 17: for far too long and we need to take action.
[1:12:37] Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. Now. Also, there's a story that news dot
[1:12:39] Speaker 1: com dot is publishing this evening, which is suggestions that
[1:12:45] Speaker 1: there are certain people that have been agitating online for
[1:12:48] Speaker 1: some sort of rally to take place to declare an
[1:12:58] Speaker 1: anger at what has happened here. I'm just trying to
[1:13:01] Speaker 1: double check before. I don't want to promote anything else
[1:13:03] Speaker 1: that's in here, but to stand up for Australia, etc. Etc.
[1:13:08] Speaker 1: I don't want any of this, none of it right.
[1:13:11] Speaker 1: No one's a hero who does that stuff. This is
[1:13:14] Speaker 1: not about the previous things that we're talking about, mass migration,
[1:13:19] Speaker 1: well behaved people in the past, the idea of you know,
[1:13:22] Speaker 1: let's get in there, let's rip in because we're sort
[1:13:26] Speaker 1: of super ossies. Not okay.
[1:13:28] Speaker 7: No, it's not okay, Paul.
[1:13:30] Speaker 17: And you know, right now is a time for people
[1:13:32] Speaker 17: to be calm and is it a time to let
[1:13:34] Speaker 17: our police to undertake the investigation and the work that
[1:13:38] Speaker 17: they are doing. I've got to be honest, I'm as
[1:13:40] Speaker 17: angry as hell and there's things that i want to say,
[1:13:43] Speaker 17: but tonight is not the night to do that. I'll
[1:13:45] Speaker 17: be having plenty to say over the next couple of weeks,
[1:13:48] Speaker 17: because this is something that has been raised going back
[1:13:52] Speaker 17: two and a half years and we've seen little action
[1:13:55] Speaker 17: being taken to address it and here we are now
[1:13:58] Speaker 17: with a situation has impacted Australian So the message is
[1:14:02] Speaker 17: everybody needs to keep calm out there at the moment,
[1:14:05] Speaker 17: there'll be an opportunity where those questions are going to
[1:14:08] Speaker 17: be asked of leaders as to what they have done
[1:14:11] Speaker 17: and what they haven't done, and I'm sure that's going
[1:14:14] Speaker 17: to be coming out in the very near future.
[1:14:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so. Look in the movies, it all
[1:14:18] Speaker 1: happens in ninety minutes. On social media, it all happens
[1:14:21] Speaker 1: in less than ninety seconds. In real life, it takes time.
[1:14:25] Speaker 1: And again those who are trying to put their emotion
[1:14:30] Speaker 1: anywhere other than yes, remain angry, remain focused, but put
[1:14:34] Speaker 1: the pressure onto the politicians to actually be the ones
[1:14:37] Speaker 1: to not just raise the questions, but to hear them,
[1:14:40] Speaker 1: men to engage with them. Paul really appreciate it, mate,
[1:14:42] Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Paul to all of course form
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: when you said, well, police minister, quick break back with more.
[1:14:47] Speaker 1: We'll go to country Queensland to see what part of
[1:14:50] Speaker 1: their reaction is to potentially some of this firearm stuff,
[1:14:54] Speaker 1: because no doubt again it'll be a city versus the
[1:14:56] Speaker 1: bush shirt conversation. But of course the idea that anyone
[1:14:59] Speaker 1: having the sorts of weapons in and around the city
[1:15:01] Speaker 1: makes negative sense. These are the live pictures that are
[1:15:05] Speaker 1: happening right now twenty six minutes past ten o'clock in
[1:15:09] Speaker 1: Bondi and Bondou Beach, a place known around the world
[1:15:12] Speaker 1: as a wonderful place to feel the most alive. A
[1:15:17] Speaker 1: Sunday evening changed forever, a Monday night where a country
[1:15:20] Speaker 1: is just working out what the hell is going on?
[1:15:29] Speaker 1: Two hour pul Murray Live Tonight, at the conclusion of
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: which Rita Paney will be live with The Rita Paney Show.
[1:15:34] Speaker 1: Highlights of everything that you have seen, including some incredible
[1:15:38] Speaker 1: moments like the reunion that happened with Sharry Marks and
[1:15:41] Speaker 1: being able to facilitate between a mother her little daughter
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: and the woman who was able to save her daughter's life.
[1:15:48] Speaker 1: Pretty incredible. That also was ats gonings dot com dot au.
[1:15:52] Speaker 1: Peter Sevanovic will of course be here with the latest
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: information in the morning, so make sure you keep the homepage,
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: keep the TV on, and if you can't catch it
[1:16:00] Speaker 1: on the television, don't forget to sky On News radio,
[1:16:02] Speaker 1: available on all the streaming services and also on the
[1:16:05] Speaker 1: AB all right. Joining us now is Robert Gregory, who
[1:16:08] Speaker 1: is from the Australian Jewish Association. He is their CEO
[1:16:12] Speaker 1: and he joins us now. The next couple of days
[1:16:15] Speaker 1: for the community, we know is heartbreaking, but also in
[1:16:18] Speaker 1: part because there are going to be the funerals, meaning
[1:16:23] Speaker 1: the absolute emotional chaos inside the community. Literally from the
[1:16:29] Speaker 1: piece that was six o'clock on a Sunday night to
[1:16:32] Speaker 1: the worst experiences that families will have by the following
[1:16:37] Speaker 1: Sunday night. There are many, many tough hours to be
[1:16:41] Speaker 1: played out very publicly, aren't they mate.
[1:16:44] Speaker 7: That's right.
[1:16:44] Speaker 18: It's a small community. Everyone knows everyone. I myself know
[1:16:49] Speaker 18: several of the victims, and not even all the names
[1:16:52] Speaker 18: have been released yet, so people are nervously watching waiting
[1:16:55] Speaker 18: to see who's passed away. And for the families, it's
[1:16:58] Speaker 18: obviously very difficult. It to intense personal trauma, but it's
[1:17:03] Speaker 18: also shared now with the community and with the whole
[1:17:06] Speaker 18: of Australia. So it's really just tragic all round.
[1:17:09] Speaker 1: Absolutely. Now, part of what I'm trying to do each
[1:17:13] Speaker 1: and every night, as we will through the weak, is
[1:17:15] Speaker 1: to have the honest conversations right and the honest conversations
[1:17:20] Speaker 1: with any and all communities. Is that the police can
[1:17:23] Speaker 1: never give a one hundred percent guarantee of safety. But
[1:17:26] Speaker 1: yours is a community that has been intimidated, threatened, that
[1:17:31] Speaker 1: has tried, through the political processes, through the media processes,
[1:17:36] Speaker 1: to talk about a need for an increase in security.
[1:17:39] Speaker 1: So let's talk tonight about what you hope for the
[1:17:44] Speaker 1: community at large, Given that, of course it was a
[1:17:48] Speaker 1: Jewish community event that was targeted, an Australian community event
[1:17:53] Speaker 1: that was targeted. What do you want to hear out
[1:17:58] Speaker 1: of police, not the premier, is, not the politicians, but
[1:18:00] Speaker 1: the police in the next little while, about how you
[1:18:04] Speaker 1: can feel safer in this great country.
[1:18:08] Speaker 18: Well, one thing we don't want to hear is some
[1:18:10] Speaker 18: of the deflection that we've seen trying to put this
[1:18:13] Speaker 18: as if it's an issue of gun owners or not
[1:18:15] Speaker 18: gun owners. I think there's bigger issues there. Police do
[1:18:19] Speaker 18: a great job protecting the Jewish community. As you said,
[1:18:23] Speaker 18: they can't be everywhere. We can't have a police standing
[1:18:26] Speaker 18: every time Jewish people hold an event or or walk
[1:18:28] Speaker 18: outside or gathering groups. So we also rely on private
[1:18:32] Speaker 18: security and it's a huge burden on the Jewish community.
[1:18:36] Speaker 18: I had a small gathering when my baby daughter was
[1:18:39] Speaker 18: born in a synagogue and about to hire an armed guard.
[1:18:42] Speaker 18: This is just the reality. Jewish preschools have armed guards.
[1:18:47] Speaker 18: So it's an effort working with the police, with the
[1:18:49] Speaker 18: Jewish community, with the government assisting. But the security on
[1:18:53] Speaker 18: the ground is just one step of the thing. It's
[1:18:55] Speaker 18: also preventing it at the cause, and we've seen whether
[1:18:59] Speaker 18: it's the the radical preachers, whether it's issues of immigration,
[1:19:03] Speaker 18: whether it's what's going on in the universities. There's things
[1:19:06] Speaker 18: the government was warned about, the steps they should have taken,
[1:19:09] Speaker 18: They could have taken, and that would would have prevented
[1:19:12] Speaker 18: this situation occurring, and unfortunately, unfortunately the government was more
[1:19:17] Speaker 18: focused on keeping out Jewish or Israeli visitors, on denying
[1:19:20] Speaker 18: the visas and not listening, not listening to their own
[1:19:24] Speaker 18: Commissioner's report on anti Semitism, and it's just really disappointing.
[1:19:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, the person who was making that choice about MP's
[1:19:31] Speaker 1: being denied, speakers being denied, and the rest is of
[1:19:34] Speaker 1: course Tony Burke as the Home Affairs Minister, the junior Ministry,
[1:19:38] Speaker 1: but is still is essentially answerable to him is immigration.
[1:19:42] Speaker 1: As you will have seen and as you will have heard,
[1:19:45] Speaker 1: he decided to turn up in Bondi. He did so
[1:19:48] Speaker 1: at nine point thirty at night, though literally under a
[1:19:52] Speaker 1: cover of darkness. Again, I don't know whether he was
[1:19:54] Speaker 1: not in Sydney. He certainly was giving public press conferences
[1:19:58] Speaker 1: a little bit earlier. He was confronted by some members
[1:20:02] Speaker 1: of the people who were there. Let's roll that tape
[1:20:05] Speaker 1: and I want to get your reaction.
[1:20:07] Speaker 12: What your shame shame on you?
[1:20:16] Speaker 1: Of all of the things that Tony Berg specifically could
[1:20:19] Speaker 1: have done as a minister to create a better sense
[1:20:24] Speaker 1: of security. Again, he has no direct and obvious responsibility
[1:20:28] Speaker 1: to the events of the past couple of days, but
[1:20:32] Speaker 1: obviously don't want to let him off the hook either,
[1:20:34] Speaker 1: being able to turn up at nine point thirty at
[1:20:36] Speaker 1: night in an event which he may will have been
[1:20:37] Speaker 1: able to attend from sunrise or certainly when there was
[1:20:40] Speaker 1: a lot more people there.
[1:20:42] Speaker 18: Well, you'd be a very brave federal labor minister to
[1:20:46] Speaker 18: turn up at a Jewish community event. These days, it's
[1:20:49] Speaker 18: not a labor issue because the Miss South Wales premier
[1:20:52] Speaker 18: is well received. It's an issue with the federal government
[1:20:55] Speaker 18: and how they've ignored this problem for all these all
[1:20:59] Speaker 18: these more than two years now, how we've seen rallies
[1:21:01] Speaker 18: in our cities where these hateful chants have been occurring
[1:21:05] Speaker 18: calling for an anti fighter, and now we have the
[1:21:07] Speaker 18: anti fighter. And this was not just Tony Burke, but
[1:21:10] Speaker 18: it was also part of his responsibility. And I had
[1:21:13] Speaker 18: a meeting with Tony Burke a couple of weeks ago,
[1:21:15] Speaker 18: and he's a nice guy.
[1:21:16] Speaker 7: He's nice enough to get on with.
[1:21:18] Speaker 18: But whether it's issues, whether he's more worried about his
[1:21:20] Speaker 18: own electorate or you know, whether the Labor Party is
[1:21:24] Speaker 18: worried what the Greens think. They just really didn't take
[1:21:27] Speaker 18: this issue seriously. And I don't know what more the
[1:21:30] Speaker 18: Jewish community could have done to show how important it
[1:21:33] Speaker 18: was for us. I mean, we were accused of crying wolf,
[1:21:36] Speaker 18: of making you know, extreme examples of things. But this
[1:21:41] Speaker 18: is exactly what we feared would happen, what we've seen
[1:21:43] Speaker 18: in other places in the world, and what we knew
[1:21:46] Speaker 18: was possible and our worst nightmares, and this is what happened.
[1:21:49] Speaker 18: And I just think, you know, it's not one action
[1:21:52] Speaker 18: that could have prevented it, but you know, there's so
[1:21:54] Speaker 18: many different things that could have been done. You know,
[1:21:56] Speaker 18: on October nine, when we saw those scenes at the
[1:21:59] Speaker 18: Opera House for strong government, as you said before, Tony
[1:22:03] Speaker 18: Abbott or someone was in charge, I don't think this
[1:22:05] Speaker 18: atmosphere would have been allowed to descend like this, and
[1:22:08] Speaker 18: I don't think we would have ended up in this spot.
[1:22:11] Speaker 1: What does it say to you that in the past
[1:22:13] Speaker 1: twenty four hours, the number of media organizations who have
[1:22:17] Speaker 1: either been reaching out to you or have had you
[1:22:19] Speaker 1: on the air would be a very significant number, more
[1:22:22] Speaker 1: than wanting to get your response to things like the
[1:22:26] Speaker 1: Seagull review. What does it say again about the people
[1:22:30] Speaker 1: who have had an opportunity to amplify the concerns of
[1:22:34] Speaker 1: the community that after blood has been shed is when
[1:22:39] Speaker 1: they'll give you the access to the microphone or the camera.
[1:22:44] Speaker 7: It's a very good observation.
[1:22:46] Speaker 18: And yes, I've had the entire day today, I've been
[1:22:50] Speaker 18: on the media, and I have to say Sky News
[1:22:52] Speaker 18: is an exception because they always have time for.
[1:22:54] Speaker 7: The Jewish community and to hear what we have to say.
[1:22:56] Speaker 18: But I've done two interviews on ABC Today on different
[1:23:00] Speaker 18: places that it's quite a rare occasion to do, and
[1:23:03] Speaker 18: they didn't listen to us when we needed us, when
[1:23:05] Speaker 18: we were saying the problem and how it's too late.
[1:23:08] Speaker 7: I mean, I don't you know, yes, I know.
[1:23:10] Speaker 18: Some of the victims, but I don't want to get
[1:23:13] Speaker 18: up and start talking about them.
[1:23:14] Speaker 7: You know, it's too late.
[1:23:16] Speaker 18: It's just such a shame that it was allowed to
[1:23:18] Speaker 18: get to this, and the media could have played a
[1:23:21] Speaker 18: role in amplifying and amplifying the Seagull report and instead
[1:23:24] Speaker 18: Jillian Siegel, who's put who doesn't need to but she's
[1:23:27] Speaker 18: put herself out in the public to help the community.
[1:23:31] Speaker 18: She's getting attacked in a lot of the media, and
[1:23:33] Speaker 18: it's just shocking.
[1:23:36] Speaker 1: In terms of the next couple of days, do you
[1:23:38] Speaker 1: expect or would you like to be able to get
[1:23:41] Speaker 1: face to face with the Prime Minister where it's not
[1:23:43] Speaker 1: about cameras or anything else, it's about where you were
[1:23:46] Speaker 1: able to speak strongly, speak privately, speak directly, and hopefully
[1:23:52] Speaker 1: hear something from the Prime Minister. What would community leadership
[1:23:56] Speaker 1: like in terms of access to power at the moment.
[1:24:00] Speaker 18: Look, he's obviously going to say the right words now
[1:24:03] Speaker 18: and I would be very surprised if he didn't. And
[1:24:06] Speaker 18: I think we'll also see measures taken, so I mean,
[1:24:09] Speaker 18: obviously we'll appreciate that, but it's just too late. Me personally,
[1:24:13] Speaker 18: I wouldn't want to meet with the Prime Minister. I
[1:24:15] Speaker 18: have nothing that I want to say to him. He
[1:24:18] Speaker 18: should have taken action long before.
[1:24:21] Speaker 7: What he can do now is implement the measures.
[1:24:24] Speaker 18: And it's you know in universities in the ABC with immigration,
[1:24:29] Speaker 18: start taking some of these measures, and they're not all
[1:24:32] Speaker 18: going to result in terrible actions like what we saw
[1:24:35] Speaker 18: a couple of days ago, but they will just help
[1:24:37] Speaker 18: to lower the tensions and and some of these rallies
[1:24:40] Speaker 18: that have been occurring in our cities. And that is
[1:24:43] Speaker 18: what the government can do to lower the tensions, To
[1:24:45] Speaker 18: listen constructively to the Jewish community, and again not to
[1:24:50] Speaker 18: divert the conversation. This is not a conversation about gun ownership.
[1:24:54] Speaker 18: I actually have heard from people who were there at
[1:24:58] Speaker 18: the terrible massacre, saying that they wish they'd been able
[1:25:01] Speaker 18: to have a gun because we saw these brief civilians.
[1:25:03] Speaker 18: We saw one person tackle the guvernment, we saw another
[1:25:07] Speaker 18: person throw rocks at him, and how things may have
[1:25:09] Speaker 18: ended very differently if we just had one armed guard
[1:25:12] Speaker 18: or civilian. So I don't think gun laws is the
[1:25:15] Speaker 18: way this government should be taking it. I know they
[1:25:17] Speaker 18: want to because it aligns with the policies that they
[1:25:20] Speaker 18: have already, but they need to listen to the community
[1:25:22] Speaker 18: and they may have to make some tough announcements that
[1:25:25] Speaker 18: won't go over well in their electric But for the
[1:25:27] Speaker 18: good of the country, I think the government needs to
[1:25:29] Speaker 18: do it. The opposition needs to come together give them
[1:25:32] Speaker 18: support in doing what actually needs to be done.
[1:25:35] Speaker 1: Thank you, Robert, to appreciate it. I know it's been
[1:25:36] Speaker 1: a long day. Thank you for always talking to us.
[1:25:39] Speaker 1: It was important point to make about how many people
[1:25:41] Speaker 1: are talking to you today who sadly wouldn't have been
[1:25:44] Speaker 1: seeking you out last week. Thank you mate. I do
[1:25:46] Speaker 1: appreciate it. Again. Strength and love to the community to
[1:25:49] Speaker 1: our fellow are straining, so we're hurting at this time now.
[1:25:52] Speaker 1: As you know, the Opera House has been lit up
[1:25:55] Speaker 1: with a minora which is honored to Mark Kunnaker, also
[1:25:58] Speaker 1: of course, to bring light to darkness the very point
[1:26:02] Speaker 1: of the festival and the focus around the country. There
[1:26:07] Speaker 1: are also landmarks which are being lit up. I certainly
[1:26:10] Speaker 1: know that the Flinders Street station is an important one
[1:26:14] Speaker 1: to people in Melbourne, people in Victoria, and a wonderful
[1:26:17] Speaker 1: symbol of that great city to the rest of the country.
[1:26:20] Speaker 1: It too is being lit up. I saw before some
[1:26:24] Speaker 1: social media posts from other leaders in other states who
[1:26:28] Speaker 1: have found a way to light those landmarks, and to
[1:26:32] Speaker 1: do so within twenty four hours of the beginning of
[1:26:37] Speaker 1: the morning period. As to what took place here, what
[1:26:41] Speaker 1: again feels very strange tonight is again this idea that
[1:26:45] Speaker 1: we know, generally speaking, when it comes to horrible things happening,
[1:26:49] Speaker 1: how that period of time works, and normally it'll be
[1:26:53] Speaker 1: things like natural disasters, where the natural disaster will take place,
[1:26:56] Speaker 1: then there'll be an evaluation, then you get the political
[1:27:00] Speaker 1: leadership turning up. All of that is happening in this
[1:27:04] Speaker 1: twenty four hours. Matt Canavan is of course a national
[1:27:06] Speaker 1: senator and a man who's very direct and honest about things,
[1:27:10] Speaker 1: and I wanted to get him on tonight as we
[1:27:12] Speaker 1: would normally do on a Monday night, a little normal,
[1:27:15] Speaker 1: a little later than normal, but we're accounting for daylight
[1:27:17] Speaker 1: saving now. Senator, Firstly, your thoughts about where we are
[1:27:22] Speaker 1: twenty four hours later, now that we have all begun
[1:27:25] Speaker 1: to process what the hell has happened here and how
[1:27:27] Speaker 1: we've changed forever, well, Paul.
[1:27:31] Speaker 19: First, I just wanted to put my condolences on the
[1:27:34] Speaker 19: record to the Jewish community and all of those people
[1:27:37] Speaker 19: who have suffered their grief. Is what's inspiring me to
[1:27:43] Speaker 19: take action to make sure we never see this again.
[1:27:46] Speaker 19: I never thought we would see something like this in
[1:27:48] Speaker 19: our country, but it's just so shocking for us. And
[1:27:52] Speaker 19: as you say, people are still processing that. I mean, Paul,
[1:27:56] Speaker 19: I am. I am quite angry about what happened has
[1:27:59] Speaker 19: happened as well, because I do feel that all Australians
[1:28:03] Speaker 19: have had something ripped from us in the past twenty
[1:28:06] Speaker 19: four hours. It's just very, very dispiriting to think the
[1:28:14] Speaker 19: next time I go to Bondo Beach, you won't be
[1:28:17] Speaker 19: thinking about the care free, happy atmosphere that is one
[1:28:23] Speaker 19: of the most important places of our country. Whelmust cherished
[1:28:25] Speaker 19: places of our country. Beautiful places of our country. We
[1:28:28] Speaker 19: now will have these shocking scenes almost invariably front and
[1:28:33] Speaker 19: center of our mind, and that has changed our country.
[1:28:36] Speaker 19: And just as we all, I think collectively, don't think
[1:28:40] Speaker 19: this would ever have happened in our country. The challenge
[1:28:42] Speaker 19: for us now is to make sure it doesn't happen again,
[1:28:45] Speaker 19: and we need to channel that anger, that frustration into
[1:28:48] Speaker 19: making real change.
[1:28:49] Speaker 6: Change.
[1:28:50] Speaker 19: It might be uncomfortable for some people to confront, but
[1:28:53] Speaker 19: change is absolutely necessary to regain our unity, our harmony,
[1:28:57] Speaker 19: our sense of purpose as a nation. It's been sorely
[1:29:00] Speaker 19: these last few years. We've seen this drum beat of
[1:29:02] Speaker 19: division grow and grow. The warnings have been ignored, but
[1:29:07] Speaker 19: they must be ignored no longer. We have a serious,
[1:29:09] Speaker 19: serious problem with social harmon in this country, and that
[1:29:12] Speaker 19: is the most important country, the most important issue that
[1:29:15] Speaker 19: must be tackled now.
[1:29:16] Speaker 1: To me, I want to see obviously announcements and action,
[1:29:20] Speaker 1: but I also want to see a very open conversation
[1:29:24] Speaker 1: about everything being on the table. I mean, we've just
[1:29:26] Speaker 1: gone through a process of the government being able to
[1:29:29] Speaker 1: take on the biggest tech companies in the world in
[1:29:32] Speaker 1: and around the social media band. Right. I know you're
[1:29:34] Speaker 1: not a fan, but still a size of what they're
[1:29:37] Speaker 1: willing to commit to. Right, well, how is there not
[1:29:40] Speaker 1: an ability to try to ban hate preachers, the ability
[1:29:44] Speaker 1: and the sources and the sites in which people are
[1:29:47] Speaker 1: self radicalizing. Again, if we are to believe what the
[1:29:53] Speaker 1: Prime Minister has said is the limits of this, is
[1:29:55] Speaker 1: that this is something that is limited to the two
[1:29:58] Speaker 1: people involved. But again, is there another family somewhere else?
[1:30:02] Speaker 1: Is there something happening in again the unknown parts of
[1:30:07] Speaker 1: our country, And again it doesn't We don't know where
[1:30:10] Speaker 1: it comes from until it finally happens. I want to
[1:30:13] Speaker 1: see that sort of stuff. I want to see that
[1:30:16] Speaker 1: people of good faith, like yourself, are able to offer
[1:30:20] Speaker 1: into the public discussion genuine attempts to cut the cancer out.
[1:30:29] Speaker 6: Totally.
[1:30:29] Speaker 12: Paul.
[1:30:30] Speaker 19: I don't want to see a knee jerk reaction. I
[1:30:32] Speaker 19: want to see a no holds barred solution. Here solutions
[1:30:35] Speaker 19: I say that reasserts our country's mission, our purpose, our unity,
[1:30:40] Speaker 19: our harmony as a people.
[1:30:42] Speaker 7: We've traditionally had that, but.
[1:30:44] Speaker 19: As I say, it's been sorely tested and now brought
[1:30:46] Speaker 19: to breaking point over the past twenty four hours. And
[1:30:49] Speaker 19: so look, I want the Prime Minister to bring this
[1:30:52] Speaker 19: country together. I wish him success in that, but these
[1:30:57] Speaker 19: first steps today have caused me to be a little
[1:31:01] Speaker 19: cynical on what the Prime Minister is up to. For
[1:31:04] Speaker 19: him to so immediately turn to just simply seeking to
[1:31:08] Speaker 19: turn this to a gun reform issue, to me misses
[1:31:11] Speaker 19: the whole point and perhaps, as I say, quite cynically,
[1:31:15] Speaker 19: just seems to align with what our Labor party or
[1:31:17] Speaker 19: labor government might want to do. Anyway, Clearly, clearly, I
[1:31:21] Speaker 19: think most people, good faith people, as you say, can
[1:31:25] Speaker 19: see that yesterday has a lot more to do than
[1:31:27] Speaker 19: simply the firearms these two evil people were holding. It
[1:31:32] Speaker 19: is the ideas that they were firing. Is the sense
[1:31:34] Speaker 19: of division that they were using to commit these evil acts.
[1:31:39] Speaker 7: That is what has to be tackled.
[1:31:41] Speaker 19: Because there's no law that's going to stop the pipe
[1:31:43] Speaker 19: bombs that were out there that fortunately, thankfully we're not exploded.
[1:31:50] Speaker 19: People will always find a way that are fueled by
[1:31:52] Speaker 19: division and hate around whatever laws we pass. We must
[1:31:56] Speaker 19: tackle the division hate in the first place, and nothing
[1:32:00] Speaker 19: at least from this government has done that. As I say,
[1:32:03] Speaker 19: they've ignored these warnings for the past few years. It's
[1:32:06] Speaker 19: about time the PM and the government tackle that issue
[1:32:09] Speaker 19: at its route, at its cause, and not simply revert
[1:32:13] Speaker 19: here to as I say, this knee jerk reaction to
[1:32:16] Speaker 19: seem to be doing something a day after when they've
[1:32:19] Speaker 19: done nothing for the last few years.
[1:32:21] Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean again, there's not going to be issues
[1:32:22] Speaker 1: in and around a national fire registry. The idea about
[1:32:28] Speaker 1: the deeper background checks, all of this, the idea again,
[1:32:32] Speaker 1: red blue whatever, that we have got to the point
[1:32:35] Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, even thirty years after what we
[1:32:38] Speaker 1: can fronted in a nine to ninety six, then you
[1:32:39] Speaker 1: cannot be an Australian citizen and be able to own
[1:32:41] Speaker 1: guns in the country. That's crazy. But yes, the weapons matter,
[1:32:46] Speaker 1: but as you say, the idea is just as important
[1:32:49] Speaker 1: and just as important to confront. I really appreciate it, Matt.
[1:32:51] Speaker 1: Thank you mate. I know it was quick, but I
[1:32:53] Speaker 1: do appreciate it well. Plenty more to talk about. Follow
[1:32:55] Speaker 1: him on socials. A very good man joining us from
[1:32:57] Speaker 1: adelaide that being a Senate at Matt Canavan quick break
[1:33:00] Speaker 1: back with more here on Palmrie Live. We'll go overseas
[1:33:02] Speaker 1: for an expert in and around radicalization. How to confront it?
[1:33:06] Speaker 1: How do we deal with this, because that is the
[1:33:08] Speaker 1: tough stuff that lies ahead, and it's late enough at
[1:33:10] Speaker 1: night to be really honest, we'll get to that next.
[1:33:18] Speaker 1: An entire country and many people around the world would
[1:33:22] Speaker 1: love to be able to put their arms around the
[1:33:24] Speaker 1: man who was able to save so many lives last night,
[1:33:28] Speaker 1: and of course that was the one who confronted the
[1:33:31] Speaker 1: father one of the two shooters, who of course ended
[1:33:36] Speaker 1: up back on the bridge, but police were able to neutralize. Well,
[1:33:40] Speaker 1: that's exactly what the Premier has done and done so
[1:33:44] Speaker 1: tonight in Sydney, he's actually gone to the bedside of
[1:33:47] Speaker 1: the man, mister l Ahammad, I should say he's had
[1:33:53] Speaker 1: a conversation with him. Apparently a lawyer who was there
[1:33:56] Speaker 1: with him had said that he spent a little bit
[1:33:58] Speaker 1: of time with him. The Premier said that it was
[1:34:00] Speaker 1: to spend the time with him and of no doubt
[1:34:02] Speaker 1: that because of those actions of which you're seeing on screen,
[1:34:06] Speaker 1: that lives were saved. But according to a lawyer representing
[1:34:14] Speaker 1: the hero, he could take months to recover. Apparently received
[1:34:19] Speaker 1: much more significant injuries than any of us had thought
[1:34:21] Speaker 1: at the time. But good to see the Premier visiting
[1:34:23] Speaker 1: this very vital and important Australian, a big hearted man
[1:34:28] Speaker 1: who's got a family of his own, and I believe
[1:34:29] Speaker 1: that it go fund me in the support of him
[1:34:31] Speaker 1: has gone through, absolutely through the roof. Let's go to
[1:34:34] Speaker 1: London right now and doctor Allan Mendoza joins us now.
[1:34:37] Speaker 1: He is boke who's had plenty of experience in and
[1:34:40] Speaker 1: around matters to do with radicalization, about confronting, about national policy,
[1:34:45] Speaker 1: national security, foreign policy, some big issues to be discussed there.
[1:34:49] Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us in London. Put simply, lots of
[1:34:52] Speaker 1: people in Australia are frightened that we never want to
[1:34:54] Speaker 1: get to the place where you and other members of
[1:34:57] Speaker 1: the Reform Party are now trying to dig the country
[1:35:01] Speaker 1: out from. What are some of the things that you
[1:35:02] Speaker 1: can give us advice to us here in Australia to
[1:35:06] Speaker 1: avoid what sadly you're having to deal with in the UK.
[1:35:11] Speaker 9: Well, I'm sorry to tell you, but you are where
[1:35:13] Speaker 9: we are. There's no doubt about it, because if you
[1:35:15] Speaker 9: have an attack like this, it tells you the poison
[1:35:19] Speaker 9: of hatred has spread sufficiently to go from mere sloganizing
[1:35:23] Speaker 9: and you've had the same slogans that we've had on
[1:35:26] Speaker 9: marches for two years on the streets, your streets, saying
[1:35:30] Speaker 9: things like globalizing into farder and now it's turned into action,
[1:35:34] Speaker 9: just as it's turned into action here with an attack
[1:35:36] Speaker 9: on a synagogue in Manchester. The reality is that hate
[1:35:41] Speaker 9: is easy to come by and very difficult to remove
[1:35:43] Speaker 9: from a society. So the first question you have to,
[1:35:46] Speaker 9: you know, look at you within Australian society is what
[1:35:49] Speaker 9: are the factors that are causing this hatred to spread?
[1:35:52] Speaker 9: How can we intervene to stop that? How can we
[1:35:56] Speaker 9: push back? So the haters are the ones who end
[1:35:59] Speaker 9: up on the margins of society, not the people they're targeting,
[1:36:02] Speaker 9: because you know, all these things come together to create
[1:36:04] Speaker 9: a perfect storm and they end up in situations like
[1:36:07] Speaker 9: the tragedy at at Bondo Beach and indeed others that
[1:36:10] Speaker 9: we've seen across the Western world. So we're all on
[1:36:13] Speaker 9: the slippery sleep, I'm afraid, and you know it's a
[1:36:15] Speaker 9: question as to which of us might be further down?
[1:36:17] Speaker 1: Is correct? Fairy fair point? Now, Also, we want to
[1:36:21] Speaker 1: create systems to build courage for the people who are
[1:36:26] Speaker 1: closest to those that are going down these radicalized rabbit
[1:36:30] Speaker 1: holes to be able to either identify that they've gone
[1:36:34] Speaker 1: too far down or to try to pull them back again.
[1:36:38] Speaker 1: How do we create better situations and more support that
[1:36:44] Speaker 1: rather than trying to find excuses for what are the
[1:36:47] Speaker 1: beginnings of fringe behavior, that when we're all confronted by
[1:36:51] Speaker 1: it wherever we happen to be, we call it out
[1:36:53] Speaker 1: and we pull it back.
[1:36:57] Speaker 9: Well, I'm not aware, I'm not aware of the architecture
[1:37:00] Speaker 9: of your counter extremism counter terrorism policy, but here in
[1:37:03] Speaker 9: the UK we've got a string of interventionist policies if
[1:37:05] Speaker 9: you like, which doesn't in fact, you know, we do
[1:37:07] Speaker 9: encourage people to intervene and to get you onto focus
[1:37:11] Speaker 9: with people who at the start, at the bottom end,
[1:37:13] Speaker 9: you know, might be expressing extremist views, so you report
[1:37:16] Speaker 9: them so that they can then be talked to and
[1:37:18] Speaker 9: you know, kind of trying to understand where this is
[1:37:21] Speaker 9: coming from. Can can they be talked out of it
[1:37:23] Speaker 9: all the way up through where they get challenged more
[1:37:26] Speaker 9: and more to a point where they might of course
[1:37:28] Speaker 9: be arrested depending on what they have said and done
[1:37:31] Speaker 9: in that sort of area.
[1:37:32] Speaker 7: So there isn't you know, there is a possibility.
[1:37:34] Speaker 9: To create an architecture which does lead to identification of
[1:37:39] Speaker 9: people who might be problematic. The traveler is it doesn't
[1:37:43] Speaker 9: always work. We've had cases here where people have passed
[1:37:46] Speaker 9: through this system, they've been people of interest in the system,
[1:37:50] Speaker 9: and unfortunately they've gone on to commit or attempt to
[1:37:53] Speaker 9: commit terrorist attacks. So you then do have to have
[1:37:56] Speaker 9: that community based approach which suggested people, look, we're all
[1:38:00] Speaker 9: safer if you report people who have dangerous views around you,
[1:38:04] Speaker 9: because those dangerous views won't necessarily just stay as being views.
[1:38:08] Speaker 9: They might become action that leads to the murder of
[1:38:10] Speaker 9: innocent people. So it's a whole process.
[1:38:13] Speaker 7: It has to be.
[1:38:13] Speaker 9: Carried out by you know, civil society has to be
[1:38:16] Speaker 9: carried out by authorities of various kinds, but it is
[1:38:20] Speaker 9: reinforced by a belief of the areas where there is
[1:38:23] Speaker 9: the most risk of radicalization. People in those communities coming
[1:38:27] Speaker 9: forward to say, actually, I'm an Australian, I'm a brit
[1:38:30] Speaker 9: I don't understand what's going on with X in my
[1:38:32] Speaker 9: community and need them to be sorted out. So we
[1:38:35] Speaker 9: are relying a lot on local knowledge, as it were,
[1:38:38] Speaker 9: to help the authorities get to a position where they
[1:38:40] Speaker 9: can intervene early.
[1:38:41] Speaker 1: Enough yeah, absolutely, doctor, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
[1:38:45] Speaker 1: And also we need the political leadership that you show
[1:38:48] Speaker 1: and obviously Nigel Furange does as well. Hopefully we'll have
[1:38:50] Speaker 1: a chat Teham a little bit later in the week.
[1:38:52] Speaker 1: All right, that's a show through night, but that's not
[1:38:53] Speaker 1: the end of life coverage. Rata Panehey joins us straight
[1:38:57] Speaker 1: after the break and again strength and loved those that
[1:39:00] Speaker 1: are directly affected and to those that will be changed forever.
[1:39:03] Speaker 1: But our country, we love it and this is not
[1:39:06] Speaker 1: on

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