# Paul Murray Live | 3 November

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 3 Nov 2025, 50 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/424b3655-c0cb-43d2-872f-b38a00ba26f8/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

Optus wrestles back control of its mobile networks from Nokia, the Nationals officially dump net zero. Plus, Anthony Albanese accused of running his own cult of secrecy after once slamming a “culture of cover-up”. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: From the Skyinging Center. This is Paul Murray Live. Hello,
[0:06] Speaker 1: thank you very much for watching. Thank you, Charry, come
[0:08] Speaker 1: on into the man cave. What's to get to tonight,
[0:10] Speaker 1: including the breaking news is that apparently Susan Lee and
[0:14] Speaker 1: the Libs are right on the verge of trying to
[0:16] Speaker 1: find a way to jump out of the net zero
[0:19] Speaker 1: commitments that this government is committed to. Doesn't help, doesn't hurt.
[0:23] Speaker 1: We'll discuss it all with the man who forced the
[0:25] Speaker 1: hand in many ways of the Nationals, and that is
[0:27] Speaker 1: the great Matt Canavan. He is here and will be
[0:30] Speaker 1: with us a little later tonight. The Prime Minister well
[0:34] Speaker 1: back in question time after floating around the world, indignant
[0:37] Speaker 1: as always. But I've got some more details about how
[0:39] Speaker 1: secret this government is, of course much different than what
[0:42] Speaker 1: they promised to be, and how they do it. And
[0:44] Speaker 1: wait till I show you some of the numbers that
[0:46] Speaker 1: tell you about which Australian state has not been doing
[0:49] Speaker 1: the hazard reduction required ahead of what is probably going
[0:53] Speaker 1: to be at another big bushfire season. Why because that's
[0:56] Speaker 1: what always happens in summer. As I've heard today, there
[1:01] Speaker 1: was a big moment when a whole bunch of senators
[1:04] Speaker 1: were full of huff and puff and wanted to blow
[1:06] Speaker 1: the OPTUS house down, finger waving at all. A perfect
[1:10] Speaker 1: example is this Green who does know the difference between
[1:14] Speaker 1: legal and illegal.
[1:15] Speaker 2: Apparently optors clearly don't think they have to inform you
[1:23] Speaker 2: of serious outages or the numbers of the numbers don't matter,
[1:28] Speaker 2: and they obviously didn't think that they have an illegal
[1:32] Speaker 2: obligation to inform you of whether there's a deadly result.
[1:36] Speaker 2: And doesn't that say something about how they view you
[1:40] Speaker 2: as a regulator And they clearly don't take you.
[1:43] Speaker 3: Seriously, Senator, that's a question you have to put up
[1:46] Speaker 3: to opters.
[1:47] Speaker 1: Okay, yes, Schimick spoke, But this, of course is the
[1:50] Speaker 1: person who has formed like sea patrol. Remember that one
[1:52] Speaker 1: from way back when when she was talking about the
[1:54] Speaker 1: Australian Navy and seat patrol. Of course, that was the
[1:56] Speaker 1: fictitious show about the Navy that I think was back
[1:59] Speaker 1: on line way back when. Now this is the facts. Okay,
[2:04] Speaker 1: this is what we know about all of that hullabaloo,
[2:09] Speaker 1: all of that carry on. And again I am not
[2:12] Speaker 1: at all holding water for OPTAs, but today it went
[2:15] Speaker 1: too far when the people who yes, technically have regulation
[2:18] Speaker 1: over the telecommunications industry, tried to pretend that they had
[2:21] Speaker 1: control over a private company. The outage, which took place
[2:24] Speaker 1: in September, lasted for thirteen hours. Six hundred calls in
[2:29] Speaker 1: a country of twenty seven million were effected OPTAs and
[2:33] Speaker 1: this is sort of the ass covering of corporate culture
[2:36] Speaker 1: these days. They sent an email trying to inform the government,
[2:40] Speaker 1: but it was the wrong address, so it was the
[2:43] Speaker 1: next day when they set it to a different part
[2:45] Speaker 1: of the government, when the government was fully aware of
[2:48] Speaker 1: what was going on. Now, why did that take place?
[2:52] Speaker 1: Why is that such an important part of this story,
[2:56] Speaker 1: Because despite the half, despite the path, OPTIS today in
[3:00] Speaker 1: its evidence said that by law they didn't have to
[3:05] Speaker 1: do what they did badly the first time, but correctly
[3:09] Speaker 1: the second time, which was to get in touch with
[3:10] Speaker 1: the government in real time while they were trying to
[3:13] Speaker 1: fix the problem. Again, here's evidence before the Parliamentary Committee.
[3:20] Speaker 4: The obligation we had on the eighteenth was to inform
[3:25] Speaker 4: the ACMA and the as I said, the ECP of
[3:29] Speaker 4: the fact that there had been a network outage, and
[3:31] Speaker 4: we did that. Because we did that, we also made
[3:34] Speaker 4: sure which is not required by regulation, but we made
[3:38] Speaker 4: sure that we informed the department and the Minister's office
[3:42] Speaker 4: as well.
[3:44] Speaker 1: So is there potentially a need for a rule change,
[3:46] Speaker 1: a change in legislation to make sure that the second
[3:49] Speaker 1: something goes down somebody is automatically aware in the regulator
[3:54] Speaker 1: and then the Minister's office probably, But again people waving
[3:59] Speaker 1: their fingers as if that law exists, when again, according
[4:01] Speaker 1: to the evidence of optis that law does not exist.
[4:04] Speaker 1: What did exist on that day was that the Communications Minister,
[4:08] Speaker 1: Anika Wells, had failed to deliver on a promise that
[4:13] Speaker 1: the government said they would do way back as twenty
[4:18] Speaker 1: twenty four now. They said that they were going to
[4:21] Speaker 1: have a special person who would be inside each of
[4:24] Speaker 1: the telecommunications companies, essentially to be the human being who
[4:28] Speaker 1: would be aware that if something went wrong, they would
[4:30] Speaker 1: either inform the relevant people or maybe part of fixing it.
[4:33] Speaker 1: Well this government sat on what was called the triple
[4:36] Speaker 1: zero safeguard for more than a year. They only backfilled
[4:40] Speaker 1: it once their failures had been exposed. It was not
[4:44] Speaker 1: a priority of the previous Communications minister. It was not
[4:47] Speaker 1: a priority of this Communications minister. After becoming the minister
[4:51] Speaker 1: many many months before September, we also know some of
[4:58] Speaker 1: the behind the scenes about what went wrong. Now, in
[5:03] Speaker 1: the same way that there are energy companies that essentially
[5:07] Speaker 1: are a shop front that will sell you electricity, they'll
[5:11] Speaker 1: buy it for somebody else that don't make the electricity.
[5:15] Speaker 1: Optus is not in control or wasn't in direct control
[5:20] Speaker 1: of many of the network towers. Other people had that responsibility,
[5:27] Speaker 1: and in this case it was the finish technology company Nokia. Now,
[5:32] Speaker 1: while Nokia phones are now any as cool as they
[5:34] Speaker 1: used to be and certainly not as popular as they
[5:36] Speaker 1: used to be, the company Nokia is still well and
[5:38] Speaker 1: truly involved in the telecommunications world, ie controlling many of
[5:42] Speaker 1: the towers, and some of the towers that went down,
[5:45] Speaker 1: producing that problem for thirteen hours, affecting six hundred people
[5:49] Speaker 1: who called Triple O again the facts. The reason I
[5:54] Speaker 1: opened the show with this tonight is so that you
[5:56] Speaker 1: can know at the end of all of this up
[5:59] Speaker 1: and down, all of the all of the finger pointing
[6:01] Speaker 1: what went wrong? Will people be held responsible for it?
[6:05] Speaker 1: Inside Optus? Well, some people have already decided they'll be
[6:07] Speaker 1: leaving the company soon, whether that is of their choice
[6:10] Speaker 1: or not. Well, of course we'll never know. This inter
[6:14] Speaker 1: relationship with Nokia seems to have been a very significant
[6:18] Speaker 1: part about how the towers fell down and who knew
[6:24] Speaker 1: what and when, because Optus outsourced the operations of its
[6:28] Speaker 1: mobile phone networks to Nokia in twenty eighteen, scrapping the
[6:34] Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy jobs the finished company took over
[6:37] Speaker 1: from centers in Chennai, India and in Sydney. Before Nokia
[6:43] Speaker 1: started the firewall upgrade that related to the September eighteen
[6:48] Speaker 1: outage it identified It identified network changes associated with the
[6:52] Speaker 1: upgrades as quote zero risk. So Optus is claiming that
[6:59] Speaker 1: the company they rely upon for part of its network
[7:01] Speaker 1: to stay up Nokia told them We're going to update
[7:04] Speaker 1: the software. Don't worry, zero risk, no cause will be interrupted.
[7:08] Speaker 1: Obviously that is not what took place. But now that
[7:12] Speaker 1: you know that, the law does not mean that the
[7:16] Speaker 1: second there is a problem with Optis, Telstra or votaphones network,
[7:21] Speaker 1: that it is no one's job or responsibility to jump
[7:25] Speaker 1: for a bat phone that wakes the Minister up in
[7:27] Speaker 1: the middle of the night, as if there was a
[7:30] Speaker 1: nuclear missile that had been fired towards Australia. Now that
[7:34] Speaker 1: you know that the extent of the outage was thirteen hours.
[7:38] Speaker 1: Now that you know that there is somebody else who
[7:44] Speaker 1: had the responsibility for the tech working and there was
[7:48] Speaker 1: clearly an issue of them not being able to deliver
[7:52] Speaker 1: on their central issue. And yes, on some parts that's
[7:55] Speaker 1: blame shifting, but this is all part of the story, right.
[7:59] Speaker 1: Compare the carry on of the politicians who made it
[8:02] Speaker 1: seem like the CEO of Optus got up in the
[8:06] Speaker 1: middle of the night and was with a pair of
[8:08] Speaker 1: bolt cutters cutting the wires to kill access to the
[8:12] Speaker 1: Triplo system. Now this is American style politics. We keep
[8:16] Speaker 1: being told that Australia doesn't want American style politics. Well,
[8:20] Speaker 1: this is American style politics when politicians want to show
[8:25] Speaker 1: off to voters and the media rather than actually fix
[8:29] Speaker 1: the problem. Because if the problem here is the law,
[8:31] Speaker 1: they don't need an inquiry to work that out. The
[8:35] Speaker 1: inquiry was essentially a show trial, a show trial of
[8:38] Speaker 1: a company of which I do not carry water, for
[8:40] Speaker 1: of which must be held morally and in any other
[8:43] Speaker 1: sense responsible for its own failures, including its inter relationship
[8:47] Speaker 1: with other companies like Nokia. But this is American politics
[8:51] Speaker 1: at its worst, which is to make it look like
[8:54] Speaker 1: we're doing something, we yell at someone and then don't
[8:56] Speaker 1: do anything. This is some of the back and forth
[8:59] Speaker 1: that was in the inquiry today, including from Senator Hyphen.
[9:04] Speaker 5: Surely you have.
[9:04] Speaker 2: An obligation to inform the regulator and the government as
[9:10] Speaker 2: soon as you know that the information you had previously
[9:13] Speaker 2: given them was wrong, grossly inadequate, wrong, so wrong that
[9:20] Speaker 2: it actually has led and is linked to people's death.
[9:24] Speaker 4: I've reached out to the family soon.
[9:25] Speaker 3: No, No, that's not my question, mister Rue. Please do
[9:28] Speaker 3: not duck and weave what I've asked. Have they indicated
[9:32] Speaker 3: that they wished to meet with you? Has there been
[9:34] Speaker 3: any other communication directly from the families to you or
[9:38] Speaker 3: anyone else at Optics.
[9:39] Speaker 4: I'm giving you a direct answer, and that is that
[9:41] Speaker 4: the privacy of the family.
[9:42] Speaker 2: No, Dad is not Acceptableman, it took you twenty four
[9:46] Speaker 2: hours almost to correct the record.
[9:50] Speaker 1: I don't see. It just doesn't matter how much you
[9:52] Speaker 1: spin this, mister Ruth.
[9:54] Speaker 2: You left a false understanding and false information in the
[9:58] Speaker 2: hands of the regulators for almost twenty four hours.
[10:03] Speaker 1: Now, these are the people who sit on the Communications Committee.
[10:05] Speaker 1: In some way, they would think that they have some
[10:07] Speaker 1: level of regulation over every platform you read see here,
[10:13] Speaker 1: And that's true because to some degree they inform the
[10:15] Speaker 1: decisions of the Parliament. The Parliament makes its laws. But
[10:18] Speaker 1: they also know that the actual technical difficulty that knocked
[10:24] Speaker 1: out the system for thirteen hours and failed six hundred people,
[10:29] Speaker 1: three of which are no longer with us, is utterly irrelevant.
[10:34] Speaker 1: About what the government knew and when it knew the
[10:37] Speaker 1: failure is the problem, not who was told about the failure.
[10:41] Speaker 1: Who was told about the failure is the excuse for
[10:45] Speaker 1: the show trial that we got today. Now I've taken
[10:48] Speaker 1: a bit of time to go through and show you
[10:51] Speaker 1: the facts. How much of that do you reckon turned
[10:54] Speaker 1: up at six pm tonight versus let's get them the
[10:59] Speaker 1: Telco revealing the timeline today in a two and a
[11:01] Speaker 1: half hour Senate grilling, shocking litany of failures was laid
[11:05] Speaker 1: bare today as Optics executives faced the fury of senators
[11:09] Speaker 1: the Telco's evidence during a Senate grilling today. Now, why
[11:13] Speaker 1: do I take such time to talk about what feels
[11:16] Speaker 1: like a kind of old thing from a few weeks ago,
[11:20] Speaker 1: Because the very same people who were huffing and puffing
[11:24] Speaker 1: and waving their fingers today including Senator Hansome Young representing
[11:30] Speaker 1: the Greens, the minister representing the Labor Party, with all
[11:35] Speaker 1: of the carry on and that she's been doing inside
[11:39] Speaker 1: the parliament is because there was another thing that happened
[11:43] Speaker 1: today when it came to the Senate and inquiries, the
[11:47] Speaker 1: Labour Party got together with the Greens in the Senate
[11:50] Speaker 1: to vote down and inquiry into the CFMEU. Now the
[11:57] Speaker 1: situation with Optus is very serious. I again want everyone
[12:03] Speaker 1: to be held accountable. Well, what do you think is
[12:05] Speaker 1: an ongoing and rolling problem for the country thirteen hours
[12:08] Speaker 1: an optis or the way the CFMAU has been alleged
[12:12] Speaker 1: to have been behaving for a little more than thirteen months,
[12:15] Speaker 1: a little more than thirteen years? Dare one say Senator
[12:20] Speaker 1: Jane Hume representing the Liberals, she was the one pushing
[12:22] Speaker 1: for this inquiry.
[12:25] Speaker 6: In what world is it reasonable to refuse an inquiry
[12:30] Speaker 6: into a union that's been infiltrated by organized crime, that's
[12:34] Speaker 6: riddled with corruption, and is now shielded by a government
[12:38] Speaker 6: that simply will not act.
[12:41] Speaker 1: And why should there not be one? Why did Labor
[12:44] Speaker 1: and the Greens block one while simultaneously the inquiry into
[12:48] Speaker 1: Optus was headline news everywhere. Well, our mate Tony Sheldon
[12:54] Speaker 1: was just loyal to the movement. This motion is an ideological,
[12:59] Speaker 1: absolutely fast.
[13:00] Speaker 7: What they're doing across the way is really just trying
[13:04] Speaker 7: to find a way to unite themselves when they say
[13:07] Speaker 7: this united.
[13:09] Speaker 1: The obvious other news is around the Nationals and their
[13:12] Speaker 1: decision when it comes to net zero. As you know,
[13:15] Speaker 1: our Mcanavan, who has been saying it for years, has
[13:18] Speaker 1: been refining his argument for months, was able to lead
[13:21] Speaker 1: the charge to convince the remainder of the National Party
[13:24] Speaker 1: that's it. We're out now. Very importantly, and I mentioned
[13:28] Speaker 1: this in some detail last night, but I get it
[13:30] Speaker 1: Sunday night cricket. Other things may well have mean that
[13:32] Speaker 1: you weren't in the front row, and that's okay, you
[13:34] Speaker 1: need a note. But still the National Party is not
[13:38] Speaker 1: saying climate change does not existing, we don't need to
[13:40] Speaker 1: do anything about it. So anyone who thinks that that's
[13:43] Speaker 1: what has happened and that is where the end of
[13:45] Speaker 1: the rainbow is going to be for the coalition, pay
[13:48] Speaker 1: attention to what the Nationals are saying. They don't believe
[13:51] Speaker 1: in the hard and fast rules of net zero. By
[13:54] Speaker 1: twenty fifty. They don't believe in the hard and fast
[13:57] Speaker 1: rules about twenty thirty five, but they also and believe
[14:00] Speaker 1: in doing bugger all.
[14:04] Speaker 8: We're not walking away from reducing emissions. We continue to
[14:07] Speaker 8: believe that we need to reduce emissions, but we've got
[14:10] Speaker 8: to do it in a better fare and cheaper way
[14:12] Speaker 8: for all Austrains. And what we are going to say
[14:15] Speaker 8: is that we believe that we can peg ourselves to
[14:18] Speaker 8: the rest.
[14:18] Speaker 1: Of the world.
[14:19] Speaker 8: We're not going to be a lagged but we're not
[14:20] Speaker 8: going to streak ahead now.
[14:23] Speaker 1: Things being the way that they are, is that if
[14:25] Speaker 1: the coalition breaks, and it will break if the Liberal
[14:28] Speaker 1: Party does not adopt the similar if not exact position
[14:32] Speaker 1: as the National Party, is that the National Party will
[14:37] Speaker 1: be running against the Liberal Party potentially in every seat
[14:41] Speaker 1: in the country. And while yes, they'll end up preferencing
[14:44] Speaker 1: einstch other, meaning essentially the vote will still coalesce, they'll
[14:48] Speaker 1: still be running against each other, they still be campaigning
[14:50] Speaker 1: against each other. It'll be sort of an internal fight
[14:53] Speaker 1: amongst themselves to fight for who is on top in
[14:57] Speaker 1: the opposition. While of course the g government that being
[15:01] Speaker 1: labor will be able to dance off scot free, but
[15:05] Speaker 1: that may be what many people want. Hence why the
[15:08] Speaker 1: pressure is now on the Libs and on Susan Lay
[15:11] Speaker 1: particularly to join the Nationals and still believe in climate change,
[15:17] Speaker 1: still believe in doing something, but walk away from the
[15:20] Speaker 1: slogan that is net zero.
[15:25] Speaker 3: The party's decision to ditch its commitment to the policy
[15:28] Speaker 3: has put renewed pressure on Liberal leader Susan Lee.
[15:31] Speaker 2: Really does put incredible pressure on the leader of the opposition.
[15:35] Speaker 2: This move by the National Party has raised plenty of
[15:39] Speaker 2: questions on how the Liberal Party will now respond now again.
[15:44] Speaker 1: Matt Canavan on the show always joins us on a Monday.
[15:47] Speaker 1: I'm so pleased that he is here. He'll be cocker
[15:49] Speaker 1: hoop either on the Nationals go in their own way,
[15:52] Speaker 1: but certainly now that there is a clear decision that
[15:55] Speaker 1: they will be nowhere in net zero. What does he
[15:57] Speaker 1: think also about how they implement what the leader had
[16:00] Speaker 1: to say today about recognizing that there is a problem
[16:03] Speaker 1: and doing something about it, but not doing something at
[16:05] Speaker 1: the speed that Labor Party currently is. That's worth talking about.
[16:09] Speaker 1: I've also heard a couple of people and this, I'll
[16:11] Speaker 1: be honest, was more something I've heard on the radio
[16:13] Speaker 1: than something I've heard on television. But I've constantly heard
[16:15] Speaker 1: about this thing that zero is a vote loser. Now again,
[16:20] Speaker 1: I don't understand the logic with this. People don't vote
[16:25] Speaker 1: for the coalition and therefore vote for Labor because Labor
[16:30] Speaker 1: is more committed to the net zero timelines. It doesn't
[16:35] Speaker 1: make sense if it's a loser of votes on the right.
[16:41] Speaker 1: Fine and fair enough, But the very sad reality here,
[16:44] Speaker 1: as somebody who does not like the current government would
[16:47] Speaker 1: have preferred them to have their wings clipped rather than
[16:51] Speaker 1: grown another meter at the election, is that despite the
[16:55] Speaker 1: fact that Pauling Hansen's One Nation is surging, no doubt
[16:58] Speaker 1: about it, highest numbers they've ever got, Libs lowest numbers
[17:00] Speaker 1: they've ever got, in part because of the fight in
[17:02] Speaker 1: and around this. You need to know that the overall
[17:06] Speaker 1: left wing pile in Australia has grown since the last
[17:11] Speaker 1: federal election. The federal election was fifty five forty five.
[17:15] Speaker 1: The Libs have lost to Labor, Green's Teals all the
[17:18] Speaker 1: rest has grown by two. So again it is not
[17:23] Speaker 1: my position. I am not a participant. I am simply
[17:25] Speaker 1: an observer, somebody who's seen the ups the downs, the highs,
[17:28] Speaker 1: the lows, the logic and the lack of it. In
[17:31] Speaker 1: this conversation, a person who knows that Australia is one
[17:34] Speaker 1: percent of the world's problem, but the world has a problem, right,
[17:38] Speaker 1: but also understands that of the climate clock forty five
[17:42] Speaker 1: minutes of the climate clock is either bigger problems or
[17:44] Speaker 1: doing less than we are, meaning we're not going to
[17:47] Speaker 1: be able to change the climate with the current levels
[17:51] Speaker 1: of Australian action or even if every Teal and Green
[17:55] Speaker 1: dream came true. What I think is potentially very important
[18:02] Speaker 1: for wherever the coalition lands, and most likely it is
[18:05] Speaker 1: going to land where the Nationals have already taken it,
[18:08] Speaker 1: where I know so many people watching this program want
[18:11] Speaker 1: it to go, which is noa net zero is that obviously,
[18:16] Speaker 1: with that left wing pile growing, you have to say
[18:19] Speaker 1: what the Nats said before. They're not talking about climate
[18:21] Speaker 1: change doesn't exist. They're saying the missions still need to become.
[18:25] Speaker 1: This is something that one nation has jumped very hard
[18:28] Speaker 1: into and that in part is going to be what
[18:29] Speaker 1: they're going to continue to campaign against when it comes
[18:32] Speaker 1: to the Nationals and when it comes to the Liberals.
[18:34] Speaker 1: But my belief is that you need to come up
[18:37] Speaker 1: with what you are going to do at the same
[18:40] Speaker 1: time as you say what you're not going to do.
[18:44] Speaker 1: Otherwise you end up in this conversation around slogans, you
[18:48] Speaker 1: end up in a vacuum. You end up in a
[18:50] Speaker 1: scenario where your opponents are able to make up what
[18:53] Speaker 1: you are going to do. So again, do I have
[18:56] Speaker 1: the answer that politically unlocks the bike chain that gets
[19:02] Speaker 1: us to a place of this government being under more pressure. No,
[19:08] Speaker 1: But I think that this is an opportunity for the
[19:10] Speaker 1: opposition sooner rather than later, to tell us what they
[19:12] Speaker 1: want to do, because very obviously a majority of Australians
[19:17] Speaker 1: believe there is a problem and it needs to be
[19:19] Speaker 1: dealt with. So what's your solution. Maybe they could say
[19:22] Speaker 1: we're going to plan a billion trees. Some environmental experts
[19:26] Speaker 1: have said that's the answer, because look, we can't solve
[19:30] Speaker 1: the world, but we can suck a lot of the
[19:31] Speaker 1: crap out of the sky and maybe that takes us
[19:34] Speaker 1: closer to net zero. Maybe the opposition could win some
[19:39] Speaker 1: of the seats that are affected by floods, fires and
[19:42] Speaker 1: bush fires, regardless of whether they're the biggest or worst
[19:45] Speaker 1: ever or all the rest because the reality is insurance
[19:48] Speaker 1: costs more than it ever has in Australia, in part
[19:50] Speaker 1: because of the payouts that come as a result of
[19:52] Speaker 1: things like fire and flood. I'm not talking about climate change.
[19:56] Speaker 1: I'm talking about a different way of dealing with a
[19:59] Speaker 1: problem that could unlock some people thinking about voting national
[20:03] Speaker 1: or liberal. What about coming up with some sort of
[20:07] Speaker 1: a sort of standing paid or volunteer army that means
[20:12] Speaker 1: our response to natural disasters is even more professional even
[20:16] Speaker 1: I mean the idea that that wonderful people of the
[20:18] Speaker 1: sees take as much time off from their jobs. Surely
[20:22] Speaker 1: some people should be paid to be part of a
[20:26] Speaker 1: standing service to deal with this stuff. Because it means
[20:28] Speaker 1: that we get it that Australia is one percent of
[20:31] Speaker 1: the world's problem, will be affected by the lack of
[20:34] Speaker 1: action of India, Russia, currently, the United States, the Third
[20:37] Speaker 1: World and the pollution that comes from China. So this
[20:40] Speaker 1: could be a way of saying, so how are you
[20:42] Speaker 1: going to deal with climate change? Well, this is how
[20:44] Speaker 1: we're going to deal with climate change. Maybe it's a
[20:49] Speaker 1: scenario we're part of our foreign aid that is given
[20:51] Speaker 1: to Pacific island nations or Third world countries. That part
[20:55] Speaker 1: of it again is about money and help, and probably
[20:59] Speaker 1: more so help than money, to plan as many trees
[21:01] Speaker 1: as possible again, to suck stuff out of the sky,
[21:04] Speaker 1: because you have to be in a position where, whether
[21:07] Speaker 1: we like it or not, in twenty twenty five, when
[21:09] Speaker 1: somebody says, so what are you going to do about
[21:11] Speaker 1: climate change? What's your answer? Because every piece of electoral
[21:16] Speaker 1: evidence that I have seen, of every pole, of every
[21:19] Speaker 1: company says that we are way past the concept of
[21:24] Speaker 1: does it exist or not? And future voters have greater
[21:28] Speaker 1: intensity and that by I mean younger voters have deeper
[21:31] Speaker 1: intensity about are you going to do something about climate change?
[21:35] Speaker 1: And unless you have some of the options of how
[21:37] Speaker 1: you are going to engage with this issue, well then
[21:40] Speaker 1: the Labor Party is just going to turn around and say, well,
[21:42] Speaker 1: they don't believe in that zero, which means they don't
[21:43] Speaker 1: believe in climate change. Now we've seen how this BS works.
[21:47] Speaker 1: We've seen it with Medicare that, even though there was
[21:50] Speaker 1: no policy anywhere to cut medicare, the Labor Party light
[21:53] Speaker 1: and light and light and light and light and light
[21:55] Speaker 1: and light and got a record result. The media let
[21:58] Speaker 1: them lie and lie and lie and lie and light
[22:00] Speaker 1: and they got a record result. So as well as
[22:04] Speaker 1: choosing not to go down the path that is very
[22:08] Speaker 1: difficult and at times destructive for our country. That is
[22:11] Speaker 1: all of the rules Bowen's put in place, all of
[22:13] Speaker 1: the laws that they have passed. There has to be
[22:16] Speaker 1: that fundamental answer, what are you going to do? Because
[22:20] Speaker 1: every day that you step away from the slogan but
[22:23] Speaker 1: don't have a solution is a vacuum in which labor
[22:26] Speaker 1: and the media will fill with lies. Now, as we know,
[22:33] Speaker 1: this government loves playing things in secret. They love treating
[22:37] Speaker 1: the Australian population like mushrooms, keeping in the dark and
[22:40] Speaker 1: feed them. And in particular this when it comes to documents,
[22:46] Speaker 1: the redacted documents situation that I have talked about in
[22:48] Speaker 1: some detail, and I'm going to keep talking about it
[22:50] Speaker 1: because this is our system. This matters. If we can't
[22:54] Speaker 1: see what the government knows, then the government will get away.
[22:59] Speaker 1: We're doing bad things. I am also so pleased that
[23:03] Speaker 1: there are many other parts of the media that are
[23:05] Speaker 1: starting to notice and use the platforms they have to
[23:08] Speaker 1: comment on these issues. In the Sydney Morning Herald, which
[23:11] Speaker 1: has done some great reporting on this, the Alberanze government
[23:15] Speaker 1: came to power promising the world a commitment to transparency,
[23:18] Speaker 1: respect for parliament checks and balances, but it's gridlocked by arrogance,
[23:24] Speaker 1: even veterans like Michelle Gratton, writing for The Conversation republished
[23:29] Speaker 1: by the ABC, meaning this issue is starting to be
[23:33] Speaker 1: seen inside the places that are normally endlessly positive for
[23:37] Speaker 1: the government. Albanesi government has not walked its talk about
[23:40] Speaker 1: accountability and integrity. Michelle Gratton says observers believe Anthony Albanesi
[23:45] Speaker 1: is the main driver of limiting information. The inclination to
[23:48] Speaker 1: secrecy is part of the government's disappointing record more generally
[23:52] Speaker 1: on integrity issues highlighted in the past week by the
[23:55] Speaker 1: Center for Public Integrity and the report that they did.
[23:58] Speaker 1: Remember I showed you this in chapter and verse last
[24:02] Speaker 1: week that shows everything from jobs for the boys, freedom
[24:06] Speaker 1: of information and a whole bunch of other things are
[24:10] Speaker 1: worse under this government, when they, of course promised to
[24:13] Speaker 1: be so different. Meantime, that very report that I just
[24:18] Speaker 1: showed you, the Alberneze government's integrity report card, it showed
[24:21] Speaker 1: poor results on various fronts and our Canberra team too
[24:25] Speaker 1: independent of anything that we've been saying on air here,
[24:27] Speaker 1: and I'm not the type of person who's ringing people
[24:29] Speaker 1: behind the scenes. We should cover this, we shouldn't. That's
[24:31] Speaker 1: not my power. All I control editorially is the hour
[24:35] Speaker 1: of real estate that we have here each and every night.
[24:37] Speaker 1: That's it. I'm not one of those people. Secrecy over
[24:40] Speaker 1: Sunlight Anthony Abernezi running his own cult of secrecy three
[24:45] Speaker 1: years after lashing Morrison government's culture of cover up. This
[24:48] Speaker 1: was a story written by my friend and colleague Trudy
[24:51] Speaker 1: Macintosh in our Canberra Bureau, where she points out again
[24:55] Speaker 1: the government is trying to put new laws in place
[24:58] Speaker 1: to make it harder. You see what it is doing,
[25:01] Speaker 1: make it harder to get freedom of information requests to
[25:05] Speaker 1: know what is behind those blacked out pieces of paper.
[25:10] Speaker 1: It is also failing to deal with the report that
[25:14] Speaker 1: it's had for now two years about jobs for the
[25:17] Speaker 1: boys and how to stop it. She so, I wonder
[25:18] Speaker 1: why She also throws in the Prime Minister and his
[25:21] Speaker 1: vagueness around the Isis Brides. On the Isis Bride's repatriation
[25:25] Speaker 1: in October, the Prime Minister avoided giving a straight answer
[25:28] Speaker 1: on whether the group of women and children would be
[25:31] Speaker 1: returned to the camp from Syria. The political fights centered
[25:34] Speaker 1: on whether the government had technically provided assistance. Sure, no
[25:37] Speaker 1: assistance was provided in terms of the repatriation flights, as
[25:40] Speaker 1: had been the case previously, but when the group returned
[25:43] Speaker 1: to Australia it seemed like mister Albinezi hadn't been completely
[25:47] Speaker 1: up front. And again, if you missed the show last night,
[25:52] Speaker 1: I want to bring back a highlight that remember those
[25:54] Speaker 1: redacted documents and the Senate was trying to force them
[25:58] Speaker 1: to be unredacted. Chris Bowen gave him the middle finger
[26:01] Speaker 1: and told him to go jump, because quote, unless ministers
[26:06] Speaker 1: can be assured of the confidentiality of cabinet meetings, they
[26:09] Speaker 1: may not speak frequently or honestly between themselves and more
[26:12] Speaker 1: likely to suppress the views on present policies that may
[26:15] Speaker 1: be unpopular or politically embarrassing. His justification for why you
[26:20] Speaker 1: can't know what he knows about the consequences of his
[26:23] Speaker 1: policies is because they may be unpopular or politically embarrassing.
[26:28] Speaker 1: Can you believe that? Now this week is also going
[26:35] Speaker 1: to be a very big week for politics in the
[26:37] Speaker 1: United States. Now we are tomorrow, actually sorry, Wednesday, it's
[26:41] Speaker 1: going to be twelve months since Trump was elected. That's fast, right,
[26:46] Speaker 1: means it was a year ago since we were standing,
[26:48] Speaker 1: of course, on the balconies there and getting across things
[26:51] Speaker 1: in Washington. Can you believe it's a year anyone. There's
[26:55] Speaker 1: going to be as always the first Tuesday in November,
[26:57] Speaker 1: which is Wednesday in Australia, a whole bunch of elections
[27:00] Speaker 1: that are going to be around, and of course it
[27:01] Speaker 1: is is it a litmus test about whether Trump is
[27:03] Speaker 1: popular or not? Later in the week, I will show
[27:05] Speaker 1: you all of the data that says whether he is
[27:08] Speaker 1: up or down. Now you may see a lot of
[27:09] Speaker 1: videos that the Democrats are hopeless and there's a bumping
[27:12] Speaker 1: into walls and they can't open a draw. Well, not
[27:14] Speaker 1: everything's amazing for Trump at the moment when it comes
[27:16] Speaker 1: to the pols. But of course he is utterly dominant
[27:18] Speaker 1: in American politics. But the biggest election that will be
[27:23] Speaker 1: taking place this week in the United States is which
[27:26] Speaker 1: direction the great city of New York City will be going. Now,
[27:29] Speaker 1: it's always a blue city, but how blues are going
[27:32] Speaker 1: to go? Well blue and almost red, because as you know,
[27:35] Speaker 1: Zora and Mandani is the democrat socialist who believes and
[27:38] Speaker 1: a whole bunch of quote unquote free stuff for everyone,
[27:41] Speaker 1: sending counselors rather than cops. You know, all of that garbage. Anyway,
[27:45] Speaker 1: Trump was asked about him on America's version of sixty Minutes,
[27:48] Speaker 1: and I wanted to show this to you tonight.
[27:51] Speaker 2: Zorhan MUNDANMI, thirty four year old democratic socialist.
[27:54] Speaker 1: He's the prime minnerst non socialist communists.
[27:57] Speaker 4: He's far worse than a s Some people have compared
[28:00] Speaker 4: him to a left wing version of you, charismatic breaking
[28:03] Speaker 4: the old rules.
[28:04] Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Well, I think I'm
[28:06] Speaker 1: a much better look in person than Okay, that's it,
[28:12] Speaker 1: all right, plenty to discuss, So make sure you stick
[28:14] Speaker 1: around because you will be shocked, and I mean shocked
[28:16] Speaker 1: about how close to a billion dollars a certain part
[28:21] Speaker 1: of Australian government spending has gone over budget in the
[28:25] Speaker 1: past twelve months. That's why they're printing money again. Matt
[28:28] Speaker 1: Canavan about net zero, what replaces it, and where the
[28:32] Speaker 1: liberals go from here, even though he's a hardcore. Now
[28:35] Speaker 1: that and a whole lot more, we're just getting started.
[28:37] Speaker 1: Thanks so much for watching. Paul Murray live on a
[28:40] Speaker 1: very steamy night in the man cave because the air
[28:41] Speaker 1: kind ain't working tonight, want to see Thank you so
[28:50] Speaker 1: much for watching. All right, enough pumping up, Let's get
[28:52] Speaker 1: straight to it. Matt Canavan a much happier man talking
[28:55] Speaker 1: to us tonight because the party is where he has
[28:57] Speaker 1: been for a long time and they finally made a
[28:59] Speaker 1: decision and they took a vote, and he's happy because
[29:02] Speaker 1: he's now got two hands to get into the fight
[29:04] Speaker 1: and he'll be a big part of that fight. And
[29:06] Speaker 1: I want to say too to you, mate. Your performance
[29:09] Speaker 1: in the press conference yesterday was the clearest anyone from
[29:13] Speaker 1: the right of politics for a while has been talking
[29:16] Speaker 1: about what the advantages are in where things have landed.
[29:20] Speaker 1: So I really enjoyed that communication last night, and I'm
[29:23] Speaker 1: buttering you up because yes, I'm about to play what
[29:25] Speaker 1: David littl Pratt had to say and get your response
[29:27] Speaker 1: to it. Also, Darren Bonnets here is from What's an
[29:29] Speaker 1: Advisory and he's a founding partner of them. So Matt,
[29:33] Speaker 1: we know all the arguments against zero well prosecuted for
[29:36] Speaker 1: everyone listening to us, right. The leader in the same
[29:40] Speaker 1: press conference yesterday basically said, the National's position is not
[29:43] Speaker 1: climate change does not exist and we don't need to
[29:45] Speaker 1: do anything. It is we need to do something about emissions,
[29:48] Speaker 1: but we're not going to run to be you know
[29:51] Speaker 1: the teacher's pet like Labour wants to be. Here is
[29:53] Speaker 1: what the leader said.
[29:55] Speaker 8: We're not walking away from reducing emissions. We continue to
[29:58] Speaker 8: believe that we need to reduce omissions, but we've got
[30:01] Speaker 8: to do it in a better fare and cheaper way
[30:03] Speaker 8: for all the strains. And what we are going to
[30:06] Speaker 8: say is that we believe that we can peg ourselves
[30:09] Speaker 8: to the rest of the world. We're not going to
[30:11] Speaker 8: be a lagged but we're not going to streak ahead.
[30:14] Speaker 1: So Matt, once and for all, from your position standing
[30:18] Speaker 1: there arguing all the rest of it, do people need
[30:20] Speaker 1: to understand before the labor bs machine kicks in that
[30:24] Speaker 1: the National Party position is not there's no climate change
[30:27] Speaker 1: and we don't have to do anything about it.
[30:30] Speaker 9: Well, that's right, Paul, and thanks for buttering me up.
[30:33] Speaker 9: But I am a happy man because through the work
[30:38] Speaker 9: that myself and Ross Cadell and the Leader David Little
[30:42] Speaker 9: Proud have allowed us to do, we've united the Nationals Party.
[30:44] Speaker 9: It was a unanimous decision yesterday in our party room.
[30:48] Speaker 9: So it's a great feeling to feel back together again.
[30:52] Speaker 9: As I said yesterday, we've regained our voice, and our
[30:55] Speaker 9: job as and opposition is to have a voice, not
[30:57] Speaker 9: just be an echo of the government, to take up
[30:59] Speaker 9: the contest. Now on the question you asked, look, I've
[31:03] Speaker 9: never been against trying to do things better, more efficient
[31:06] Speaker 9: and reduce our emissions over time. Where I jumped off
[31:08] Speaker 9: the train here, Paul, is when we got onto this
[31:12] Speaker 9: net zero fantasy roller coaster that we're an end that
[31:16] Speaker 9: we could do it by twenty fifty. I just thought
[31:18] Speaker 9: that was insane. From day one. It was always a
[31:20] Speaker 9: marketing pitch, not an engineering plan, and it has been
[31:24] Speaker 9: proven to be extremely costly to any country that has
[31:27] Speaker 9: taken it seriously, and unfortunately we have been one of
[31:30] Speaker 9: those nations having some of the highest reductions and emissions
[31:34] Speaker 9: in the world. That has come at a cost to
[31:36] Speaker 9: our energy competitiveness. It has come at a cost of
[31:39] Speaker 9: our manufacturing industries. We've losing more manufacturing jobs in the
[31:42] Speaker 9: past week, potentially at tom Ago.
[31:43] Speaker 5: This has got to stop.
[31:46] Speaker 9: We've got to regain our energy competitiveness, our prospers and nation.
[31:50] Speaker 9: We can do that with some reasonable reductions and emissions.
[31:52] Speaker 9: But our priority, our priority should be when we come
[31:55] Speaker 9: to planning our energy system is to lower power prices
[31:59] Speaker 9: for Austrarets. That's what we decided yesterday as the Nationals Party.
[32:03] Speaker 9: Politics is nothing but really deciding what your priorities are.
[32:07] Speaker 9: You have to make decisions and you decide what is
[32:10] Speaker 9: the most important thing to you above and all else,
[32:13] Speaker 9: And the most important thing for us is to make
[32:15] Speaker 9: sure the living standards of Australian Australians get back up.
[32:18] Speaker 9: They're back down to twenty eleven levels now after we
[32:21] Speaker 9: dropped down zero. Let's get them back up. Let's get
[32:23] Speaker 9: them moving in the right direction. Let's make sure we
[32:27] Speaker 9: have good paying jobs in our manufacturing industry. Let's make
[32:30] Speaker 9: sure we can defend our nation by having a thriving
[32:33] Speaker 9: manufacturing industry.
[32:35] Speaker 5: And most of all, let's not.
[32:36] Speaker 9: Just try and self flagellate ourselves when the rest of
[32:39] Speaker 9: the world is not acting.
[32:40] Speaker 5: So we've been working very hard on this in the
[32:43] Speaker 5: last few months.
[32:44] Speaker 9: I know there's been a lot going on here in Canberra,
[32:47] Speaker 9: but behind the scenes, the Nationals Party has been meeting
[32:49] Speaker 9: every week to finalize this policy. And as I say,
[32:53] Speaker 9: eventually get to the anonimous position.
[32:55] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[32:55] Speaker 1: So Darren again to the politics in and around it, Okay,
[33:00] Speaker 1: And I know that there are many people and I'm
[33:03] Speaker 1: not saying this about Matt, but I'm saying many people
[33:04] Speaker 1: that will write to me and sort of think that
[33:06] Speaker 1: the politics of it is very similar to where we were,
[33:09] Speaker 1: say fifteen years ago, that essentially there is a movable
[33:11] Speaker 1: population where you can get to more than half the
[33:13] Speaker 1: population by saying, look, this is a really nice thing,
[33:16] Speaker 1: but it's you know, it's not quite the all day,
[33:19] Speaker 1: every day priority. Right. The politics has changed for a
[33:21] Speaker 1: whole bunch of reasons. There is no longer sort of
[33:24] Speaker 1: coke and PEPSI. There's a whole bunch of options that
[33:26] Speaker 1: are there, and they're all exploiting in lots of different
[33:28] Speaker 1: ways that think. But to my theory, just to my theory,
[33:32] Speaker 1: is that when the NAT's are where they are, where
[33:34] Speaker 1: the Libs end up as they're probably going to end up,
[33:36] Speaker 1: how important is it that we get some examples of
[33:40] Speaker 1: how they will deal with climate change, not just the
[33:45] Speaker 1: step away from this term that in many ways is
[33:50] Speaker 1: just emptier and easier to believe in than.
[33:54] Speaker 10: You're allowed to change your mind, and that's what the
[33:57] Speaker 10: Nationals have done, and that's okay, you're allowed to do that.
[34:00] Speaker 10: Are a hawd to take that to an election, But
[34:02] Speaker 10: I think a lot of voters they thought that maybe
[34:05] Speaker 10: the climate wars were over, that maybe we'd put that
[34:08] Speaker 10: behind us. That doesn't mean that if the Nationals and
[34:13] Speaker 10: potentially the Liberals come up with a range of policies
[34:16] Speaker 10: that can convince enough people that is the way forward,
[34:20] Speaker 10: they can win an election. Maybe not the next one,
[34:23] Speaker 10: but the one after all of that is on the
[34:25] Speaker 10: table and you can change your mind. But I think
[34:29] Speaker 10: we're getting to a point where the investment that's been
[34:32] Speaker 10: made is so significant it does become more difficult to
[34:35] Speaker 10: backtrack out of it, and people will look at it
[34:38] Speaker 10: and say, well, Malcolm Turnbull was a fan, Scott Morrison
[34:42] Speaker 10: was a fan. The last election was pretty solid support
[34:46] Speaker 10: in terms of labor over the Coalition. I thought we'd
[34:51] Speaker 10: put this to bed, and so I think there's a
[34:53] Speaker 10: lot of work needs to be done by the Coalition
[34:55] Speaker 10: to try and convince people that we need to revisit this.
[35:00] Speaker 10: It's easier for the Nationals because regional Australia I think
[35:03] Speaker 10: has a different view of renewables to the cities. But
[35:07] Speaker 10: the job of Susan Lee and the job for the
[35:09] Speaker 10: Liberals convincing metropolitan seats that if they're going to form
[35:14] Speaker 10: a government as a coalition, that they're going to do
[35:17] Speaker 10: that with half of the coalition not supporting net zero,
[35:22] Speaker 10: it makes the next election very very difficult.
[35:26] Speaker 1: Sorry, madam, you can respond that's allowed.
[35:28] Speaker 10: They're allowed to different.
[35:29] Speaker 1: But the tag I put on that though, is if,
[35:32] Speaker 1: as Little Proud has said, if as they've gone in
[35:37] Speaker 1: the past, and they say, well, look on the subject
[35:39] Speaker 1: of climate change, we think we think we should do this,
[35:42] Speaker 1: do this, do this right, like as I say, a
[35:45] Speaker 1: bit in trees making it easy to ensure something in
[35:48] Speaker 1: an area that might be affected by flood and fire,
[35:51] Speaker 1: Then at least there's a response. So to the thing here,
[35:54] Speaker 1: Matt where you know what Labour's going to do, right,
[35:56] Speaker 1: which is that until there is the detail behind what
[36:00] Speaker 1: the plan is, then Labor's just going to turn around
[36:03] Speaker 1: and make up that well knit zero equals climate change,
[36:08] Speaker 1: not backing knit zero equals not caring about climate change.
[36:12] Speaker 1: And we see that basically that bs they pulled off
[36:15] Speaker 1: on Medicare, they will weaponize and do again now on
[36:19] Speaker 1: this and I don't want that to happen because it
[36:21] Speaker 1: was a lie then, and it'll be a lie around
[36:23] Speaker 1: the corner too.
[36:26] Speaker 9: Well, Paul, what we are doing is something we've successfully
[36:30] Speaker 9: done before, so we can point to experience here and
[36:34] Speaker 9: contrast that with the failure that the Labor Party has
[36:37] Speaker 9: presided in their own climate policy. What we're saying is,
[36:40] Speaker 9: let's re establish something call the Emissions Reduction Fund. A
[36:42] Speaker 9: lot of you might not know about it, but that's
[36:45] Speaker 9: because when policies work well, you tend not to read much.
[36:49] Speaker 5: About them, right.
[36:50] Speaker 9: He only really find out about pink bats and school
[36:52] Speaker 9: halls when everything goes wrong. We had, when we're in
[36:55] Speaker 9: government something called the Emissions Reduction Fund. It actually reduced
[36:58] Speaker 9: emissions by eighty one million tons. It did so at
[37:01] Speaker 9: an average price for around twelve dollars a time. That's
[37:03] Speaker 9: about a third of what the current carbon price is.
[37:05] Speaker 9: The current the model the Labor Party's net zero plan
[37:09] Speaker 9: in their own projection, shows carbon prices going to three
[37:12] Speaker 9: hundred dollars a ton to get to net zero, and
[37:15] Speaker 9: so that's the contrast. We can do this by working
[37:18] Speaker 9: with businesses, by encouraging investments that reincrease efficiency without punishing
[37:25] Speaker 9: people for creating wealth. The Labor Party's plan is effectively
[37:28] Speaker 9: a punishment mechanism. So if you create wealth, if you're
[37:31] Speaker 9: in an industry that creates jobs, you've got to pay
[37:33] Speaker 9: something called a safeguard mechanism, which means you have to
[37:36] Speaker 9: reduce you remissions five percent a year, you have to
[37:38] Speaker 9: go out and buy carbon credits. That's a carbon tax.
[37:40] Speaker 9: We would get rid of those taxes. We don't believe
[37:43] Speaker 9: in taxing Istralian community until morale improves and net zero
[37:48] Speaker 9: we get to net zero. That is ridiculous. And in
[37:50] Speaker 9: terms of what we said just before, well, look we're
[37:52] Speaker 9: back here fighting these issues only because the Albanezi government
[37:58] Speaker 9: has failed. I mean, if the near zero plan had
[38:01] Speaker 9: done what they said it would do and lower power prices.
[38:04] Speaker 5: By two hundred and seventy five dollars.
[38:06] Speaker 9: Create six hundred thousand jobs, they're planned show back and
[38:09] Speaker 9: look with their modeling said six hundred and four thousand
[38:11] Speaker 9: jobs would be created in hydrogen and critical minerals and
[38:13] Speaker 9: all these things. If they'd done that, I wouldn't be here, Paul,
[38:18] Speaker 9: I'd be completely discredited.
[38:20] Speaker 5: I'd have to walk out this place.
[38:21] Speaker 9: With my tail between my legs because they have succeeded,
[38:24] Speaker 9: and so I don't accept that these trained people think
[38:26] Speaker 9: this is all settled.
[38:27] Speaker 5: It's certainly not settled.
[38:28] Speaker 9: For those people that are struggling to pay their energy
[38:30] Speaker 9: bills right now. It's certainly not settled for those one
[38:32] Speaker 9: thousand Tomago workers who are facing an uncertain future when
[38:35] Speaker 9: they were promised.
[38:36] Speaker 5: Just just at the start of this year.
[38:37] Speaker 9: Anthony Albinezi went up to Tomogo nine months ago and
[38:40] Speaker 9: used them as a prop to launch his political campaign,
[38:43] Speaker 9: saying that we would build, we would make things in
[38:47] Speaker 9: Australia from green energy, and now they're facing a loss
[38:49] Speaker 9: of their jobs. That's why this debate is continuing only
[38:52] Speaker 9: because of the labor parties failures.
[38:54] Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Let's move to the home insurance part
[38:58] Speaker 1: of it here, right, which is now again hardly scientific
[39:02] Speaker 1: but worth noting. Okay, three out of four Australians are
[39:04] Speaker 1: worried that storms, fires and floods will make their home
[39:07] Speaker 1: insurance premium skyrocket in the next twelve months. The source
[39:11] Speaker 1: A read a pole on nine dot com that are
[39:13] Speaker 1: you okay, Palm's institute level stuff right, but still it's
[39:16] Speaker 1: a poll worth discussing. The fresh views come as more
[39:19] Speaker 1: than half of those surveyed have already seen their premiums
[39:22] Speaker 1: spike in Australia is increasingly wild weather now again, you know,
[39:26] Speaker 1: I'm not going to play the Adam band of it.
[39:27] Speaker 1: I refuse to fall into every fire, every flood, every
[39:30] Speaker 1: issue automatically proof thereof right, there were titanic moments, whether
[39:34] Speaker 1: we like it or not about bushfires a few years ago.
[39:37] Speaker 1: Smoke and that was a big moment.
[39:39] Speaker 10: Dam in Indie Lakes twenty nineteen election was very much
[39:42] Speaker 10: because you could see it and the smoke was over
[39:44] Speaker 10: the major capitals, particularly Sydney for sure.
[39:46] Speaker 1: But something also people can see is that one of
[39:48] Speaker 1: the biggest drivers of inflation in Australia right now is insurance.
[39:52] Speaker 1: That and we're just talking about you know, the second
[39:53] Speaker 1: car and the boat. We're talking about the house. And
[39:56] Speaker 1: if you live in one of the areas that have
[39:58] Speaker 1: been affected either previously hardcore they drop a map and think,
[40:02] Speaker 1: one day, this is very expensive. It is expensive. No
[40:06] Speaker 1: one wants to touch this because it's the market doing
[40:09] Speaker 1: what the market does well.
[40:10] Speaker 10: They tend to ensure by postcode and if the postcode
[40:13] Speaker 10: has been affected whether or not your property is individually affected.
[40:16] Speaker 1: Correct, the premiums got high bit of tarre or the
[40:18] Speaker 1: low bit of lis more good luck.
[40:21] Speaker 10: And there are probably already postcodes that are unensurable, and
[40:26] Speaker 10: so that then gets aggregated across the board. But look,
[40:31] Speaker 10: whether events they come and go, I accept that, but
[40:34] Speaker 10: there have been plenty of them, and will never know
[40:37] Speaker 10: whether insurance companies are gouging or whether this is a
[40:40] Speaker 10: realistic mapping of what the future looks like. But those
[40:44] Speaker 10: prices are going to continue to go up, and I
[40:46] Speaker 10: think that's irrespective of who's in government, So it's going
[40:49] Speaker 10: to be a part of life for whoever's in government
[40:52] Speaker 10: really trying to manage that.
[40:53] Speaker 1: But also, Matt the two clever by half is there
[40:55] Speaker 1: more people than ever before, my homes than ever before,
[40:57] Speaker 1: which means there are more people who eventually up in
[41:00] Speaker 1: the risk areas because that's what they can afford. That's
[41:03] Speaker 1: where they choose. All the rest of it here, But again,
[41:05] Speaker 1: in our national conversation, not a single there's never a
[41:08] Speaker 1: question about this in question time, there's not an inquiry
[41:11] Speaker 1: about it because it's just well, that's just one of
[41:14] Speaker 1: the things. I mean today they were willing to blow
[41:16] Speaker 1: their top at opts, But I didn't see anyone blowing
[41:19] Speaker 1: their top about insurance. And I know which one actually
[41:24] Speaker 1: keeps people up at night At the moment.
[41:26] Speaker 9: The real cost driver of insurance premiums PAW is inflation.
[41:31] Speaker 9: I mean, your premium is going to be set by
[41:34] Speaker 9: insurance company based on how much it costs to replace
[41:37] Speaker 9: your home, to replace your goods, or replace your car
[41:39] Speaker 9: that you might lose. And the reality is all those
[41:42] Speaker 9: things have gone up. I mean, how much is it
[41:44] Speaker 9: costing to buy things. That's why that's why there's a
[41:48] Speaker 9: big driver in the last few years that we haven't
[41:49] Speaker 9: had massive storms or anything last few years or cyclone.
[41:51] Speaker 9: Cyclones are going down in this country. That's what's driving it.
[41:54] Speaker 9: And that's why this energy cost blowout we've seen. Underscoverment
[41:58] Speaker 9: is so costly because it afects everything. It's not just
[42:01] Speaker 9: your electrozybil. It affects the price of concrete, it affects
[42:04] Speaker 9: the price of steel, It affects, therefore the price of
[42:06] Speaker 9: brebuilding a home. It affects everything, and it then flows
[42:10] Speaker 9: through to your insurance premiums too.
[42:12] Speaker 1: All right, thank you mate. See I love it. I
[42:14] Speaker 1: love a good adult conversation when everyone can hack and
[42:16] Speaker 1: be involved in butted up or not. We'll see you
[42:18] Speaker 1: again next week, lads. That's our Monday panel and I
[42:20] Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you, Daron, Thank you very much, senator.
[42:23] Speaker 1: All right, now, this government and the way that it
[42:25] Speaker 1: has weaponized secrecy right Albo's House of Secrets. How do
[42:30] Speaker 1: they do it in ways that are known but also
[42:33] Speaker 1: not as high profile? Somebody on the inside tells us next,
[42:42] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for watching. All right, So, this
[42:45] Speaker 1: government is worse than any government of recent memory in
[42:48] Speaker 1: being able to use all of the different leavers and
[42:50] Speaker 1: tricks of government to be able to hide information. Right now,
[42:55] Speaker 1: we've seen this in how many times redactive documents wanting
[42:58] Speaker 1: to tie and uplaws the mean fread of information you're
[43:02] Speaker 1: not going to be able to get access to it.
[43:03] Speaker 1: Even weirder things like advising people how to not answer
[43:06] Speaker 1: questions inside Senate estimates. It goes on and on and on.
[43:10] Speaker 1: James McGrath is a Senator from Queensland who knows the
[43:13] Speaker 1: Senate like the back of his hand because he's been
[43:15] Speaker 1: in it for a long time and he knows how
[43:16] Speaker 1: it works when it's working well and working poorly. Also,
[43:20] Speaker 1: things like Senate estimates. James, this government has gone out
[43:23] Speaker 1: of its way to not answer a question, right so
[43:26] Speaker 1: to get out of the I'll take it on notice,
[43:28] Speaker 1: and then they don't answer on notice or their response
[43:30] Speaker 1: to it is we officially don't answer. Do you agree
[43:34] Speaker 1: with some of your colleagues upstairs who think we're in
[43:37] Speaker 1: a weird place with this moe.
[43:42] Speaker 7: A weird place that's being polite. This is a prime
[43:45] Speaker 7: minister who promised to lead the most transparent government ever
[43:49] Speaker 7: and what he's doing is because another broken promise, he's
[43:52] Speaker 7: leading probably the most the least transparent government ever. And
[43:56] Speaker 7: it comes from arrogance, and it comes from the fact
[43:59] Speaker 7: that won so many seats back in May. This guy
[44:03] Speaker 7: thinks he's invincible and he's accountable to no one.
[44:06] Speaker 1: So we saw with the Chris Bowen thing right the Senate,
[44:09] Speaker 1: everyone by the Labor Party tells him, now, no redactive documents,
[44:12] Speaker 1: stick that up your jumper, send us the real one,
[44:15] Speaker 1: because again, it's not this little the secret coordinates to
[44:18] Speaker 1: some nuclear base. It's about the consequences of his policies. Right.
[44:22] Speaker 1: Yet he writes a letter back and says not buggy,
[44:25] Speaker 1: not interested. In national secrets. Don't want to disrupt the states, right,
[44:30] Speaker 1: so we know how this is how they play this,
[44:32] Speaker 1: but give people a bit of an idea about the
[44:35] Speaker 1: lengths at which they go to and the tricks they
[44:38] Speaker 1: use to basically give everyone the middle finger.
[44:43] Speaker 7: Oh and it's not just a middle finger, it's the
[44:47] Speaker 7: middle tie. It's just a giant, big middle finger to
[44:51] Speaker 7: Australian taxpayers and Australian voters. So what they do, for example,
[44:55] Speaker 7: and you touched upon this when it comes to estimates,
[44:58] Speaker 7: there's a brief that's prepared for each each government department
[45:02] Speaker 7: which tells the public servants how not to answer questions,
[45:04] Speaker 7: but they take it on. Notice what happens is they
[45:07] Speaker 7: prepare answers. It then goes to the Minister's office, and
[45:10] Speaker 7: the minister's office then sit on those answers until well
[45:14] Speaker 7: basically until they the cobweb start to grow all around it.
[45:17] Speaker 7: Then what you're seeing is what the government's also doing
[45:19] Speaker 7: now is they're going to make it more expensive for
[45:22] Speaker 7: you to do freedom of information requests, which is really
[45:24] Speaker 7: going to impact the fourth or state because guess what
[45:27] Speaker 7: politicians need to be held to account.
[45:30] Speaker 5: We need to if you're in power.
[45:32] Speaker 7: We need to have the fourth estate, and the opposition
[45:35] Speaker 7: ask us searching questions, but Albanice is frightened. Robert, then
[45:39] Speaker 7: you've just got I'm going to hold this up.
[45:41] Speaker 11: What they do is they've got more ink than a
[45:45] Speaker 11: startled squid, and they just they just black out documents,
[45:49] Speaker 11: so you actually don't know what's in these documents.
[45:53] Speaker 7: And then this gets worse. What they do is is
[45:56] Speaker 7: think they just ignore the Senate. The Senate, which is
[45:58] Speaker 7: one of the most powerful upper houses in the world,
[46:00] Speaker 7: which is like I suppose saying you're a good looking
[46:02] Speaker 7: cane toad. Is what the Senate does is ask for
[46:07] Speaker 7: all these documents and the government is just ignoring us.
[46:09] Speaker 7: At the moment you touched upon it.
[46:11] Speaker 5: The Briggs Report.
[46:12] Speaker 7: I'm having a bit of rent at the moment, but
[46:14] Speaker 7: people need to know this. The Briggs Report is into
[46:17] Speaker 7: jobs for the mates, jobs for the mates, the labor mates.
[46:20] Speaker 7: And guess what, it's been sitting in the cabin office
[46:23] Speaker 7: for two years and the Labor minus keeps saying, oh,
[46:26] Speaker 7: we're still considering it. What are these people just slow readers?
[46:30] Speaker 7: And I can't read a document because they keep saying
[46:32] Speaker 7: we're going to release it. But they're not going to.
[46:35] Speaker 7: So the Senate last week, really quite unusually, everybody came together,
[46:38] Speaker 7: everybody from the Greens to one Nation to us in
[46:41] Speaker 7: the coalition and said, stuff, you, Labor, we want this
[46:44] Speaker 7: document released as a Senator David Pocock motion, and until
[46:48] Speaker 7: it gets released, we're going to ask more questions in
[46:50] Speaker 7: question Tom and guess what. Labor don't like it. Oh,
[46:54] Speaker 7: they do not like it at all. They are very
[46:56] Speaker 7: very unhappy.
[46:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, because part of their response to that was to
[47:00] Speaker 1: punish your colleagues in the lower House by trying to
[47:03] Speaker 1: basically limit their ability to ask questions in all of
[47:06] Speaker 1: the committees there. Right, So this again, this stuff really matters.
[47:10] Speaker 1: And I know to some degree to some people they
[47:12] Speaker 1: think that there's two blokes sort of you know, drawing
[47:15] Speaker 1: up sort of the plot to try to find a
[47:17] Speaker 1: serial killer here. Right, But this all matters because even
[47:21] Speaker 1: though that turned around and say, well we did answer
[47:23] Speaker 1: that question, it's two years after it was asked and
[47:25] Speaker 1: nobody cares anymore. Right, So do you get a sense
[47:30] Speaker 1: of appetite in the Senate where again, I don't want
[47:31] Speaker 1: the whole thing to shut down. I don't want nothing
[47:34] Speaker 1: to pass or all of that right. There are necessary
[47:37] Speaker 1: things that we have to keep going right, But do
[47:40] Speaker 1: you get a sense of frustration amongst people that would
[47:42] Speaker 1: otherwise be fellow travelers of the government that they're willing
[47:46] Speaker 1: to make it ever so slightly harder for them.
[47:50] Speaker 7: Yes, you're seeing a coalition of the willing coming together,
[47:54] Speaker 7: people who want to stand up for Australians and want
[47:56] Speaker 7: information released because it is the right of Australians that
[47:59] Speaker 7: have this information, and it's the right of the Senate
[48:01] Speaker 7: to asset to put forward questions and hold the government
[48:06] Speaker 7: to account. That is the point of the Senate is
[48:08] Speaker 7: about accountability and transparency.
[48:10] Speaker 1: But on your James, I want everyone to follow him
[48:11] Speaker 1: on social media too, because there's a lot of stuff
[48:13] Speaker 1: that happens behind the scenes that committees the speeches that
[48:16] Speaker 1: we don't get a chance to get to each and
[48:17] Speaker 1: every day. So James, how do people find you on
[48:19] Speaker 1: the socials?
[48:21] Speaker 7: They just google James McGrath. You'll see me doing all
[48:25] Speaker 7: sorts of things from driving all around Queensland. And there's
[48:29] Speaker 7: a special video that's going to pop out this this
[48:31] Speaker 7: Friday where I'm teaching people how to make how to
[48:35] Speaker 7: actually make a rum and.
[48:36] Speaker 5: Coke properly look at you d t Instagram. Yeah, thanks James.
[48:41] Speaker 1: We're talking to you soon. Mate. There it is James
[48:42] Speaker 1: the grad, Queens and Senate had good to hear from him.
[48:44] Speaker 1: All right, plenty more to discuss here on Paul Murray Live.
[48:46] Speaker 1: You want to see me an email Paul, it's got
[48:48] Speaker 1: news dot com dot au. Can I put you discude
[48:57] Speaker 1: news dot com. That are you? Excellent interview as part
[48:59] Speaker 1: of Peter Credens program this evening with people are representing
[49:02] Speaker 1: a thing called the Howard Society. Now they have come
[49:04] Speaker 1: out and they have identified that Victoria in particular has
[49:08] Speaker 1: not been doing enough hazard reduction has not been doing
[49:11] Speaker 1: so for years, where the targets are barely met and
[49:15] Speaker 1: the targets ever so slowly start to come down. All
[49:20] Speaker 1: of that could result in something like the fires that
[49:22] Speaker 1: took place in Los Angeles. Excellent story in the Australian.
[49:27] Speaker 1: Excellent interview that is up now at skynews dot com
[49:31] Speaker 1: dot au. While you were there, make sure that you
[49:33] Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast of this program and all of
[49:36] Speaker 1: the other programs. Also, the best way to annoy a
[49:39] Speaker 1: lefty in your life is just to take any stories
[49:42] Speaker 1: there or on our YouTube page or any of the
[49:44] Speaker 1: socials and share them with your mates. See tomorrow

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