# Paul Murray Live | 16 February

An episode of [Paul Murray Live](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/376966263), 16 Feb 2026, 49 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/be3abd48-25e5-45a6-aede-ac2a00524a12/8c492ff2-a8fd-4b7b-b973-b3f300c550e3/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=95971714-8fe6-4855-b1fe-ac2a00524a12

One Nation hunts down the Coalition, but voters give Taylor some ground. Plus, Sussan Ley's migration crackdown plan is leaked. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Problem the skying setter. This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you, serry,
[0:07] Speaker 1: good evening, my friend Walgan to another big hour on Telly.
[0:10] Speaker 1: I can guarantee you this. We've got about twenty four
[0:12] Speaker 1: hours worth of news to get through. We'll do it
[0:14] Speaker 1: in the next hour. You'll have a lot of fun
[0:15] Speaker 1: while we do it, including I had a fascinating conversation
[0:18] Speaker 1: over the weekend about tax about if you change this
[0:20] Speaker 1: and you change that, what would end up happening. Now
[0:23] Speaker 1: I'm going to show you about just how over reliant
[0:26] Speaker 1: the federal government is not on company tax, not on
[0:28] Speaker 1: the GSD, but on you, and why most likely you'll
[0:31] Speaker 1: be working deep until tomorrow before you start making some
[0:34] Speaker 1: money for yourself. Barnaby Joyce is going to have to
[0:37] Speaker 1: make a choice sooner rather than later, which is with
[0:40] Speaker 1: one nation in the numbers that it's having right now,
[0:42] Speaker 1: they look like they could have a pretty successful run
[0:45] Speaker 1: in the Lower House. But Barnaby Joyce has told us
[0:47] Speaker 1: that his plan is to run in the Upper House.
[0:49] Speaker 1: What will he choose? How will he choose? And apparently
[0:51] Speaker 1: he's the man in charge of their campaign to take
[0:54] Speaker 1: a seat off the Libs in the seat of Farah.
[0:56] Speaker 1: I'll explain how preferences worked the last election and how
[1:00] Speaker 1: some parties you were thought would be more friendly to
[1:02] Speaker 1: a one nation could actually be quite the opposite. Plus,
[1:06] Speaker 1: what the hell is going on here? And why is
[1:09] Speaker 1: Nicholas Rees dancing with the King and Queen of Moomba.
[1:12] Speaker 1: We will discuss this with the Lord Mayor while debating
[1:14] Speaker 1: things we make Canavan has always fun on a Monday night.
[1:16] Speaker 1: We get to all of that at a moment or
[1:18] Speaker 1: two is time Sunday We're going to be in Tasmania.
[1:20] Speaker 1: Can't wait for the first of our our towns this
[1:23] Speaker 1: year to be in Bernie in Tasmania. It's on Sunday. Okay.
[1:27] Speaker 1: Now We've moved some things around and I've got an
[1:29] Speaker 1: extra hundred seats because people have been very cool and
[1:32] Speaker 1: we were able to blast past what we expected. So
[1:35] Speaker 1: a lot of people want to come. If you would
[1:37] Speaker 1: like to join us, or if you can get to
[1:38] Speaker 1: Bernie in Tasmania on Sunday, send me an email now
[1:41] Speaker 1: because I want to fill those one hundred seats tonight.
[1:44] Speaker 1: Our town is sky News dot com dot Au first name,
[1:47] Speaker 1: last name, How many guests do you want to bring?
[1:48] Speaker 1: A mobile number? So we can call you back our
[1:50] Speaker 1: town Sunday, Bernie ourtown at skyews dot com dot au.
[1:57] Speaker 1: Now let's talk about the relentless conversation, which is the
[2:00] Speaker 1: most interesting one for those of us who care about
[2:02] Speaker 1: the center right of Australian politics and those who would
[2:04] Speaker 1: like a change to the government when we get our
[2:06] Speaker 1: next opportunity. Sadly that's not till twenty and twenty eight,
[2:10] Speaker 1: but still the endless battle for the opinion polls between
[2:13] Speaker 1: the new leader of the Liberal Party, Paul and Hanson,
[2:15] Speaker 1: who's been around for thirty years and she will of
[2:18] Speaker 1: course be going for her third term in the Senate
[2:21] Speaker 1: at this upcoming election, and Anthony Abernezi, who thinks if
[2:23] Speaker 1: he does nothing he'll end up winning one hundred and
[2:25] Speaker 1: ten seats. Now, as you know, the opinion polls have
[2:28] Speaker 1: shown us here that one nation is now somewhere in
[2:30] Speaker 1: the early to mid twenties depending on your poll. But
[2:34] Speaker 1: let's do a little comparison here, a little temperature check again.
[2:37] Speaker 1: The Resolve Poll, a sort of center left media organization,
[2:40] Speaker 1: is responsible for it. But as you can see, the
[2:43] Speaker 1: Labor Party, while it is up one in the last
[2:45] Speaker 1: two weeks, it's down three from the election. The LNP
[2:49] Speaker 1: might be up three in the past two weeks, but
[2:52] Speaker 1: it's down nine since the last election. One nation comes
[2:56] Speaker 1: off a twenty four point high in this pole, but
[2:58] Speaker 1: that's up seventeen points since the last election. No real
[3:02] Speaker 1: movement in the Greens margin of era stuff. When it
[3:05] Speaker 1: comes to the independence and the others, which include, among
[3:07] Speaker 1: others the old trumpet of Patriots, which apparently won't be
[3:10] Speaker 1: running around at the next election. Clive Palmers already said
[3:12] Speaker 1: that he's out when it comes to running another political movement.
[3:15] Speaker 1: He said that before, but they of course have gone
[3:18] Speaker 1: from five down to minus three at five right now now. Interestingly,
[3:24] Speaker 1: despite the fact that it is what two ish years
[3:27] Speaker 1: until a full term election, and there's some speculation amongst
[3:31] Speaker 1: parts of the lefty media that we may not have
[3:33] Speaker 1: an election going that far, we could have one as
[3:35] Speaker 1: early as the second half of next year, when that
[3:38] Speaker 1: becomes a viable option, and depending on how the polls sit,
[3:41] Speaker 1: the government might want to go for an early election,
[3:44] Speaker 1: hoping that the mess on the center right of Australian
[3:46] Speaker 1: politics will mean more seats for them. Can you believe though,
[3:51] Speaker 1: that three quarters of people have already made up their mind.
[3:54] Speaker 1: They are committed to their vote already seventy four percent
[3:57] Speaker 1: of people. Now. Interestingly, when this opinion poll comes out,
[4:01] Speaker 1: and we got this opinion poll for your first last night,
[4:03] Speaker 1: so I know lots have blonde onto it today, as
[4:05] Speaker 1: they should. But there's comments that are given to the
[4:08] Speaker 1: pollsters which are also published with the poll. Here's the selection.
[4:12] Speaker 1: I've always farded Liberal, but now I'm questioning their direction
[4:15] Speaker 1: and effectiveness. There's too much migration, ful stop the country's
[4:19] Speaker 1: pretty stuff. Maybe the Libs or paul and Hanson can
[4:21] Speaker 1: do better. I'm thinking of changing because the current government
[4:23] Speaker 1: aren't doing enough to help struggling people. Hell, Elijah Labor
[4:27] Speaker 1: are just taunting the coalition. They should be looking at
[4:29] Speaker 1: migration and inflation. That's interesting because of course we know
[4:33] Speaker 1: that the government is basically sort of playing attack by
[4:36] Speaker 1: just pointing at the other people. But the problems are
[4:38] Speaker 1: all gathering on their watch. Pauline Hanson the best leader
[4:41] Speaker 1: I can see right now. Quality of life always seems
[4:44] Speaker 1: to move backwards under the major parties. Time for something new.
[4:47] Speaker 1: It could be a Teel voter, or it could be
[4:48] Speaker 1: somebody moving towards one nation or yeah, even technically the Greens.
[4:52] Speaker 1: I'm sick of the same old promises and nothing getting
[4:55] Speaker 1: done off the back of them. No giant surprise there.
[5:00] Speaker 1: So there's further breakdowns about who we trust when it
[5:02] Speaker 1: comes to the big issues. Cost of living the number
[5:04] Speaker 1: one in the entire country. Now, yes, the Labor Party
[5:09] Speaker 1: is in a position where they've got to twenty four
[5:11] Speaker 1: percent of people saying that the cost of living, they're
[5:13] Speaker 1: the best option. That's for the Liberals, I should say
[5:16] Speaker 1: for Labor it's twenty three. But when you can bind
[5:19] Speaker 1: somebody else and undersided it's fifty two percent of people
[5:22] Speaker 1: who are not picking either the government or the leading
[5:26] Speaker 1: party at opposition, that is obviously huge opportunity for everyone
[5:30] Speaker 1: on the field. Most likely you would think that Labor
[5:33] Speaker 1: doesn't go up in that number that libs potentially, but
[5:35] Speaker 1: that's a huge area of opportunity and why the numbers
[5:39] Speaker 1: are where they are at the moment with one nation.
[5:41] Speaker 1: We know that housing is a massive issue for Australians,
[5:44] Speaker 1: but again, twenty six percent back the Labor Party. That
[5:48] Speaker 1: twenty percent number for the Liberals is in fact why
[5:51] Speaker 1: Angus Taylor made so many references to housing in his
[5:54] Speaker 1: opening speech in multiple interviews which had been pretty impressive,
[5:56] Speaker 1: which is on everywhere from Sky News to Breakfast Television
[5:59] Speaker 1: and the seven and thirty Report tonight on the ABC.
[6:02] Speaker 1: But again, fifty four percent of people say somebody else
[6:06] Speaker 1: or undecided on immigration and refugees. Someone else is at
[6:11] Speaker 1: thirty You've got to think that that's got to be
[6:13] Speaker 1: one nation. Surely the Liberals are behind the government or sorry,
[6:17] Speaker 1: dead liberal with the government at twenty three percent each,
[6:20] Speaker 1: but thirty percent somebody else, twenty three percent undecided means
[6:23] Speaker 1: fifty three percent of people are up for grabs on
[6:25] Speaker 1: an issue which has dominated the headlines today watch this
[6:29] Speaker 1: space now of course with that one nation surge, and
[6:35] Speaker 1: again I am part of those that are going to
[6:37] Speaker 1: need to be one back because like many people in
[6:39] Speaker 1: my generation, I am sick of the way that center
[6:42] Speaker 1: right politics has been run for some time. I, like most,
[6:45] Speaker 1: would like to see a major shakeup in the Senate.
[6:47] Speaker 1: And this is not a new position. I've been saying
[6:49] Speaker 1: this to you since what twenty sixteen when Malcolm Turnbull
[6:53] Speaker 1: was the one who broke the Liberal Party. Yes, I
[6:55] Speaker 1: saw a need for liberal governments downstairs, but certainly I
[6:59] Speaker 1: want you to and truly vote your heart in the
[7:01] Speaker 1: Senate and given the position of one Nation the moment,
[7:03] Speaker 1: that can be the ultimate win for them. So even
[7:05] Speaker 1: if their polling, which is mid twenties, went to the
[7:08] Speaker 1: high teens, that would still be enough for them to
[7:10] Speaker 1: lock in Senate seats right around the country. But for
[7:13] Speaker 1: Barnaby Joyce, the plan was for him to be running
[7:15] Speaker 1: as the lead Senate candidate in New South Wales because
[7:18] Speaker 1: of course at the last election they were able to
[7:20] Speaker 1: win a seat. So New South Wales is pretty good
[7:23] Speaker 1: ground at the moment for one Nation, and when you
[7:27] Speaker 1: have a look at the current national vote by state,
[7:30] Speaker 1: pretty easily you would see at least one senator maybe
[7:34] Speaker 1: two out of New South Wales Victoria, which is the
[7:37] Speaker 1: most popular state for one nation. Can you believe that
[7:39] Speaker 1: according to the primary according to this pole, the single
[7:42] Speaker 1: highest area of support for one nation is in Victoria.
[7:45] Speaker 1: In Queensland, Paul and Hanson's on the ballot, but obviously
[7:48] Speaker 1: with preferences she may well be able to get a
[7:51] Speaker 1: second person up. And then in the other states South Australia,
[7:54] Speaker 1: Western Australia, Tasmania, it is a more scattered picture about
[7:57] Speaker 1: whether it's higher or Lower but you throw the sample
[7:59] Speaker 1: from those states and you get to nineteen percent. But
[8:02] Speaker 1: of course Barnaby Joyce is already in the Lower House.
[8:05] Speaker 1: Barnaby Joyce is the member for New England. He has
[8:08] Speaker 1: been re elected multiple times, whether he was coming down
[8:11] Speaker 1: from the Senate, whether he was in government, in opposition
[8:14] Speaker 1: the leader, or up the absolute back of the bus
[8:16] Speaker 1: like he was at the last election. We know there's
[8:19] Speaker 1: a huge surge in people who have resigned from the
[8:21] Speaker 1: National Party in that area, in and around Tamworth. But
[8:26] Speaker 1: of course the plan was to go upstairs. But is
[8:30] Speaker 1: Barnaby Joyce going to have to make a choice about
[8:32] Speaker 1: whether he becomes the face of the One Nation push
[8:36] Speaker 1: in the Lower House? Now we could see as early
[8:39] Speaker 1: as Farah then being able to be joined by another
[8:42] Speaker 1: Lower House member, and if that's the case, it may
[8:44] Speaker 1: well seal the deal for which way Barnaby Joyce is
[8:47] Speaker 1: going to go. I got a feeling he's going to
[8:49] Speaker 1: be asked this question a lot more. I told you
[8:51] Speaker 1: last week that he opened the door. Well judge for
[8:54] Speaker 1: yourself just how wide that door is. When he was
[8:57] Speaker 1: talking with Earl j this morning here on Sky News,
[9:01] Speaker 1: I think.
[9:01] Speaker 2: You could win New England. There's one nation I.
[9:04] Speaker 3: Think I could, to be honest say there, well it's you.
[9:08] Speaker 1: That is, because I mean in the one nation.
[9:11] Speaker 2: I'm going to be part of that process and not
[9:15] Speaker 2: start the predetermining what I'm going to do.
[9:18] Speaker 1: You know, I've got to also do what's best for
[9:21] Speaker 1: one nation, and that's the choice. Now, there would be
[9:25] Speaker 1: an almost guaranteed senatece what certainly if the numbers remain
[9:28] Speaker 1: the way they do, but of course that vote could
[9:30] Speaker 1: fall and as long as it remains above fifteen percent
[9:33] Speaker 1: stated in New South Wales, it would be pretty confident
[9:34] Speaker 1: of being able to win that Senate seat. But if
[9:37] Speaker 1: people are looking to send new faces, awesome maybe defecting
[9:41] Speaker 1: faces from the existing coalition, they're going to need to
[9:45] Speaker 1: coalesce around somebody and there couldn't be a person of
[9:47] Speaker 1: higher profile for that run in the lower House than
[9:50] Speaker 1: Barnaby Joyce. Again, I'm not saying which way he should go.
[9:53] Speaker 1: I'm not saying which way I think he will go,
[9:56] Speaker 1: but it is going to be an active question now.
[9:58] Speaker 1: One of the reasons why Barnaby joy and others have
[10:01] Speaker 1: surged behind One Nation at the organizational level is because
[10:05] Speaker 1: new finance laws and new donation laws kicking on July
[10:07] Speaker 1: the first, meaning the old laws where the old donation
[10:10] Speaker 1: system existed, means you can continue to give money like
[10:13] Speaker 1: you've always been able to give money to parties, but
[10:15] Speaker 1: that changes on July the first. So I wouldn't be
[10:19] Speaker 1: surprised if there's not an announcement before July the first.
[10:22] Speaker 1: But one nation, because it doesn't have a lot of
[10:24] Speaker 1: corporate support, it needs the big donations to come in
[10:27] Speaker 1: between now and July. Yes, it is part of the
[10:30] Speaker 1: overall rigging of the system by the major parties and
[10:33] Speaker 1: largely by the Labor Party. Remember the Labor Party is
[10:36] Speaker 1: open about having more Senate seats in the territories and
[10:40] Speaker 1: potentially even more lower House seats. So watch this space
[10:44] Speaker 1: because there's always a lot more beneath the surface. And
[10:47] Speaker 1: remember what you can see from above is just the
[10:49] Speaker 1: tip of the iceberg. As Angostler made his rounds today,
[10:54] Speaker 1: he was dealing with a leak from inside the former
[10:58] Speaker 1: leadership of the Coalition. I don't know if it's someone
[11:00] Speaker 1: behind the scenes. I don't know if it's Susan Leon
[11:02] Speaker 1: on her way up, but who cares? We will never know. Instead,
[11:05] Speaker 1: Angus Taylor was forced to have to deal with what
[11:08] Speaker 1: was apparently going to be an imminent announcement when it
[11:12] Speaker 1: comes to immigration. You've heard this all day and certainly
[11:14] Speaker 1: well ventilated this evening. We're thirteen countries with terrorist controlled regions,
[11:20] Speaker 1: so maybe not everyone from all of those countries, but
[11:22] Speaker 1: people coming from certain parts of their countries wouldn't be
[11:24] Speaker 1: able to come into the country here. Now, the fine
[11:26] Speaker 1: print suggested that it would be for the first hundred
[11:28] Speaker 1: days of a new government, but we'll see the liberal
[11:31] Speaker 1: parties proposing banning immigrants from countries like Egypt, Palestine, and
[11:35] Speaker 1: the Philippines. The proposed policy could result in up to
[11:38] Speaker 1: thirty seven regions under the control of fifteen listed terrorist
[11:42] Speaker 1: organizations being designated also Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Libya, Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Palestine,
[11:50] Speaker 1: the Philippines, Gaza, sort of a repetition, but still Somalia
[11:54] Speaker 1: and Yemen. Have you ha a look at the map
[11:56] Speaker 1: of the world, you can see that it is very
[11:59] Speaker 1: much in and around northern Africa. It's a place that,
[12:02] Speaker 1: among others, people like Bob Katter have been saying, we
[12:05] Speaker 1: should have the door locked, regardless of whatever the case
[12:08] Speaker 1: is for somebody wanting to flee those countries. Well, all
[12:12] Speaker 1: of this was confronted today by many of the media appearances,
[12:16] Speaker 1: but certainly head on this evening when Angus Taylor made
[12:18] Speaker 1: his first appearance as leader on the seven thirty report. Now,
[12:21] Speaker 1: they didn't go for the normal low blow. There wasn't
[12:23] Speaker 1: a lot of back and forth in fighting. But this
[12:26] Speaker 1: was his answer to the policy when asked directly about it.
[12:31] Speaker 4: Well, that document, which I haven't actually seen, has no
[12:35] Speaker 4: validity as I understand. Well, I know it didn't go
[12:38] Speaker 4: through a shadow cabinet or the leadership, and as I
[12:41] Speaker 4: understand it, it wasn't seen by the relevant immigration shadows.
[12:44] Speaker 5: So what about relevant ministers working on a plan. Because
[12:48] Speaker 5: we know that Susan Lee was working on an immigration
[12:50] Speaker 5: plan to be delivered that was delayed after Bondai. Presumably
[12:55] Speaker 5: this is it, isn't it?
[12:55] Speaker 4: So I can't comment on that. I think I've said
[12:58] Speaker 4: all I know about it. I don't know the motive
[13:00] Speaker 4: that the people who have been handing these documents around,
[13:03] Speaker 4: I haven't seen them.
[13:04] Speaker 5: What I do know ssumably the motivation is to damage
[13:07] Speaker 5: you in some way.
[13:08] Speaker 4: Well, look, you know politics has all sorts of motives,
[13:11] Speaker 4: and I'm not going to comment on those because I
[13:12] Speaker 4: don't know.
[13:13] Speaker 1: But what about the idea again his response.
[13:17] Speaker 5: You do approve of the idea of more, more effort,
[13:21] Speaker 5: more time being spent on the views of people coming
[13:24] Speaker 5: from places like northern Nigeria or the southern Philippines or
[13:27] Speaker 5: the tribal areas in Afghanistan.
[13:29] Speaker 4: Well, I think it's obvious that there are some parts
[13:32] Speaker 4: of the world where we are more likely to see
[13:34] Speaker 4: people who are going to bring hate and violence to
[13:36] Speaker 4: our country than others. That doesn't mean you necessarily shut
[13:39] Speaker 4: the door on those places, but it does mean you
[13:42] Speaker 4: do the work to make sure the people who are
[13:44] Speaker 4: coming are not people who are going to threaten our
[13:48] Speaker 4: way of life. There will be some higher risk regions
[13:51] Speaker 4: than others, and those principles will be in our immigration
[13:55] Speaker 4: policy when we announce it.
[13:57] Speaker 1: Now. I believe that we've got it wrong over the
[14:00] Speaker 1: past thirty years. You've only got one chance to scraw
[14:02] Speaker 1: it up. On that hand, we may well have already
[14:04] Speaker 1: screwed things up, but you only got one chance to
[14:07] Speaker 1: keep the wrong type of people out of the country,
[14:09] Speaker 1: and potentially people from terrorists hotspots well may well be
[14:13] Speaker 1: part of that petition, part of that particular cohort that
[14:16] Speaker 1: we might be talking about as a sense of regret
[14:18] Speaker 1: in ten or twenty years. This will go down well
[14:21] Speaker 1: with an awful lot of people, but we know how
[14:23] Speaker 1: this will be automatically weaponized by a whole bunch of others. Wait,
[14:27] Speaker 1: watch and see where it goes in the next little while.
[14:29] Speaker 1: And came to see what make Canavan on the behalf
[14:31] Speaker 1: of his bit of the coalition think about this. But
[14:33] Speaker 1: you tell me what you think. Certainly on Facebook today
[14:36] Speaker 1: you haven't been hiding. You'll always just go searching for
[14:38] Speaker 1: poor Marie love on the socials. But more importantly, send
[14:40] Speaker 1: me and email Paul it's gonews dot com dot are
[14:42] Speaker 1: you or you'll say it's gonnews dot com dot au. Now.
[14:46] Speaker 1: I had a fascinating conversation with some people on Friday
[14:48] Speaker 1: night as the sun was almost coming up. Yeah, it
[14:50] Speaker 1: was one of those nights. It was a fun night. Well,
[14:53] Speaker 1: we were talking about tax and I've had some conversations
[14:56] Speaker 1: with people over the past couple of weeks who believe
[14:59] Speaker 1: that things like US higher GST and lower income tax
[15:02] Speaker 1: would obviously be better because the less tax you pay
[15:04] Speaker 1: as an individual, the more tax you pay depending on
[15:07] Speaker 1: how much you spend and the amount that you spend
[15:09] Speaker 1: on the things that you spend could start to balance
[15:12] Speaker 1: the books. But everyone when I have this conversation, regardless
[15:16] Speaker 1: of how informed or just guessing they might be about
[15:19] Speaker 1: the tax system, is always surprised because this is how
[15:23] Speaker 1: unbalanced our system has become. The individual is responsible for
[15:29] Speaker 1: a huge amount of the tax that becomes the revenue
[15:33] Speaker 1: for the government. There is only a fraction that comes
[15:37] Speaker 1: from companies, all the way from the multi billion dollar
[15:41] Speaker 1: corporations and banks. And then of course there's the GST. Now,
[15:45] Speaker 1: remember the GST is not how the federal government funds itself,
[15:48] Speaker 1: but the taxes that were gotten rid of under tax
[15:51] Speaker 1: reform under John Howard from the States, meaning that the
[15:54] Speaker 1: GST replaced that revenue, and every dollar of GST money
[15:58] Speaker 1: gets divvied up and sent back to the States. But
[16:02] Speaker 1: have a look at just how unbalanced the system is
[16:06] Speaker 1: now Again, those who talk about tax reform, we need
[16:08] Speaker 1: to understand not just the size of the pie, but
[16:11] Speaker 1: how big the personal income slices of the pie. According
[16:17] Speaker 1: to my EFO, which doubles down on the numbers from
[16:19] Speaker 1: the budget last year, three hundred and fifty billion dollars
[16:24] Speaker 1: comes from the average worker. One hundred and forty four
[16:28] Speaker 1: billion dollars comes from the companies of this country, big
[16:33] Speaker 1: and small, and GST is under one hundred billion dollars.
[16:39] Speaker 1: So while I leave that up on the screen, I
[16:40] Speaker 1: want people to understand that even if you doubled the
[16:43] Speaker 1: GST to twenty percent, presumably that number, well, that doesn't
[16:48] Speaker 1: go much higher than a little more than what's got
[16:52] Speaker 1: in company tax. Now, companies will always argue that their
[16:56] Speaker 1: attack should be lower. Why because they can reinvest. But
[17:00] Speaker 1: any companies are listed on the stock exchange, which means
[17:03] Speaker 1: they produce a dividend, and that is what they like
[17:07] Speaker 1: to pay back more so than money to the country
[17:10] Speaker 1: via company tax. But it is very very balanced, poorly balanced,
[17:16] Speaker 1: when obviously there are millions and millions of workers as
[17:18] Speaker 1: opposed to thousands and thousands of companies. But that's the
[17:23] Speaker 1: size of the pie, three hundred and fifty seven versus
[17:26] Speaker 1: ninety five billion. And of course the government has a
[17:31] Speaker 1: problem because it is in a world of pain. It
[17:34] Speaker 1: has promised us that there will be at least ten
[17:38] Speaker 1: more budget deficits, and their expectations of the next forty years,
[17:43] Speaker 1: is that every year will have a budget deficit. Now,
[17:45] Speaker 1: of course, will there be some spikes and some accidental
[17:47] Speaker 1: surpluses and here, and they're sure. But structurally the federal
[17:51] Speaker 1: government plans to spend more than it takes in, no
[17:55] Speaker 1: matter how big the population, no matter how large the
[17:58] Speaker 1: company ll no matter how much you spend, end on
[18:01] Speaker 1: things that are charged by the GST. So interestingly, there
[18:05] Speaker 1: is a conversation being had about how do we rebalance
[18:08] Speaker 1: the system. Now, obviously the government would like to pretend
[18:14] Speaker 1: that they are saving money, but they introduce new spending
[18:17] Speaker 1: billions and billions each in every election, big new bureaucracies
[18:21] Speaker 1: moving through to things probably that'll either be a core
[18:24] Speaker 1: promise or beginning to be delivered before the next election,
[18:26] Speaker 1: of things like free childcare littlone, the ndis, the pension
[18:30] Speaker 1: and all the rest of it. Treasurer Jim Chalmers is
[18:33] Speaker 1: being urged by the International Monetary Fund not on serious
[18:36] Speaker 1: people to use the you may budget to embrace far
[18:39] Speaker 1: reaching tax reform and increase in the GST, overhauling capital
[18:43] Speaker 1: gains tax, cutting company tax, to lift standards and get
[18:47] Speaker 1: the economy growing faster. Can we go back to that
[18:50] Speaker 1: slide about the division of taxes. Now again on pro business.
[18:55] Speaker 1: I like the idea of small companies paying less tax
[18:58] Speaker 1: because it is so burdensome. But even if the GST
[19:02] Speaker 1: went up by double and company tax goes I don't know,
[19:05] Speaker 1: down by ten percent, you're essentially washing the same dollar amount.
[19:10] Speaker 1: You're just getting it from different areas. But the actual
[19:13] Speaker 1: area that would unlock more money in more people's pockets is,
[19:16] Speaker 1: of course, personal income tax. So interestingly, in the opinion
[19:23] Speaker 1: polls that I've just been diving through earlier today, not
[19:26] Speaker 1: just about one nation, not just about which party we
[19:29] Speaker 1: like when it comes to the issues, there were a
[19:31] Speaker 1: couple of questions that were asked about tax including tax
[19:35] Speaker 1: cuts that being presumably things like income tax. Only fifty
[19:41] Speaker 1: percent of people support income tax cuts in this budget,
[19:46] Speaker 1: Just fifty percent of people who are the eleven percent
[19:49] Speaker 1: of people who think no, I absolutely oppose income taxes
[19:54] Speaker 1: coming down. Fifty one percent of labor voters say yeah,
[19:57] Speaker 1: cut them, Coalition voters, fifty five Greens, as fifty the
[20:01] Speaker 1: one nation voter, only forty five percent believes, apparently in
[20:05] Speaker 1: cutting personal income taxes. Fascinating to see, However, how should
[20:11] Speaker 1: they fund a tax cut. How should that number of
[20:15] Speaker 1: more than three hundred billion dollars start to come down? Well,
[20:19] Speaker 1: they want the government to cut spending. Sixty six percent
[20:23] Speaker 1: of people agree that government needs to cut spending. Of course,
[20:28] Speaker 1: the reality of elections is that, well we know how
[20:32] Speaker 1: one side likes to frame it and how they always
[20:36] Speaker 1: weaponize the other side trying to do exactly what sixty
[20:39] Speaker 1: six percent of people two thirds claim to be what
[20:44] Speaker 1: they want to happen in a budget. Fifty eight percent
[20:46] Speaker 1: of people want to increase tax on banks, well, of course,
[20:48] Speaker 1: because they have multi billion dollar profits right mining companies. Well,
[20:54] Speaker 1: as David Pocock showed in the Parliament, there is more
[20:57] Speaker 1: money being collected in beer taxes than and in particular
[21:01] Speaker 1: gas taxes. What about getting rid of negative gearing on
[21:04] Speaker 1: investment properties doesn't break fifty percent forty six percent, reducing
[21:09] Speaker 1: the fifty percent concession and capital gains tax forty percent,
[21:13] Speaker 1: reducing superannuation taxes thirty six percent, But as you can
[21:17] Speaker 1: see a higher jump there at twenty four percent saying no,
[21:21] Speaker 1: and an increase of the GST fifty four percent say no.
[21:25] Speaker 1: So let's go back again to that division of income
[21:28] Speaker 1: tax where apparently only fifty percent of voters say they
[21:33] Speaker 1: should cut that three hundred and fifty seven billion dollar
[21:36] Speaker 1: source of revenue. Then actual monetary fund says that we
[21:39] Speaker 1: need to cut one hundred and forty four billion dollars
[21:43] Speaker 1: worth of revenue that comes from companies, and fifty four
[21:46] Speaker 1: percent of people would not want an increase in the GST,
[21:49] Speaker 1: which makes up less than one hundred billion dollars. So
[21:55] Speaker 1: the question is how do you cut spending? You see,
[21:59] Speaker 1: the budget documents, as I have said, are about committed spending.
[22:04] Speaker 1: Things like an NDIS that only become more expensive the
[22:07] Speaker 1: more people who access it. And that's not rawly about immigration,
[22:12] Speaker 1: but that is about all people from everywhere, from the hospitals,
[22:17] Speaker 1: from being born in the hospitals here, yes, to the
[22:18] Speaker 1: people coming into the country, but people who eventually need
[22:22] Speaker 1: access to the NDIS. It could happen through accidents, it
[22:26] Speaker 1: could happen through chronic disease, which doesn't become more debilitating
[22:31] Speaker 1: until later in life. All of that, of course covered
[22:34] Speaker 1: by the NDIS. Now, when the government says that they
[22:37] Speaker 1: want to do what the majority of voters say, which
[22:40] Speaker 1: is cut spending. Remember, sixty six percent of people say
[22:44] Speaker 1: cut government spending because they don't like the idea that
[22:48] Speaker 1: we have deficit after deficit after deficit where they will
[22:51] Speaker 1: spend more than they take for the next forty years.
[22:55] Speaker 1: When the government talks about a reduction in government spending,
[22:58] Speaker 1: this is how they sell it to you.
[23:01] Speaker 6: Savings, savings, saving savings, savings, saving, saving, saving savings.
[23:06] Speaker 1: But when the same ideas are made by the opposition,
[23:09] Speaker 1: they weaponize it using the sea word that shuts.
[23:14] Speaker 4: Hot cuts cuts cut cutshts, hat starts hat cuts.
[23:19] Speaker 1: So the recognition is with a structural deficit, with a
[23:23] Speaker 1: guarantee of budget deficits for the next ten years, and
[23:27] Speaker 1: high likelihood of the ten years after, the ten years
[23:30] Speaker 1: after and the ten years after that. The trillion dollars
[23:33] Speaker 1: in debt now, which of course grows with this year's deficit,
[23:36] Speaker 1: next year's deficit, and until we go way past a
[23:40] Speaker 1: trillion dollars that happens this financial year, and no doubt
[23:44] Speaker 1: when we have this conversation in some way shape or form, ten,
[23:48] Speaker 1: twenty or even thirty years later, still a young fellow,
[23:52] Speaker 1: it would be closer to two trillion dollars. So today,
[23:57] Speaker 1: Angus Taylor, I thought made a very interesting suggestion which
[24:01] Speaker 1: was why don't we do this together? Now you can
[24:04] Speaker 1: call it savings, and I know that politically you'll bash
[24:07] Speaker 1: me over cuts, but we've got to do something here.
[24:10] Speaker 1: Why not have the best brains in your team and
[24:12] Speaker 1: the best brains in my team have a look at
[24:14] Speaker 1: that federal budget. Together, we would have the votes to
[24:17] Speaker 1: be able to do something in the Senate and maybe,
[24:19] Speaker 1: just maybe we would be able to change the direction
[24:23] Speaker 1: of our economic future. Here was Angus Taylor making a
[24:29] Speaker 1: common sense pitch today on the likelihood of the government
[24:34] Speaker 1: remaining so for at least the next few years. But
[24:37] Speaker 1: if they had the support of the opposition, they could
[24:39] Speaker 1: maybe make some of the things that would be politically unpopular,
[24:43] Speaker 1: but that have the cover of the majority of the parliament.
[24:48] Speaker 4: Setting up a prosperous economy requires us to put Australians first,
[24:53] Speaker 4: not politics, not egos. And it's in that spirit that
[24:57] Speaker 4: I wrote to the Prime Minister Anthony Alberanizi yesterday proposing
[25:00] Speaker 4: the establishment of a bipartisan Task Force on spending Restraint,
[25:06] Speaker 4: a task force comprising equal numbers of government and opposition members.
[25:11] Speaker 4: A task force with the objective of identifying and agreeing
[25:15] Speaker 4: to practical measures to reduce inflationary spending and commence budget repair.
[25:21] Speaker 1: Now to barbecue, this is what everybody wants. Now we
[25:24] Speaker 1: understand that every three years they have to go to
[25:26] Speaker 1: war with each other to try to hold on to
[25:29] Speaker 1: or to take power, But why not this as an idea.
[25:35] Speaker 1: I would extend it to the minor parties in representation
[25:38] Speaker 1: in the Parliament and those like One Nation that have
[25:40] Speaker 1: significant public support right now, and even let it TOEL
[25:45] Speaker 1: or two in because if the majority of the Parliament
[25:48] Speaker 1: is able to get to a compromise position, it's not
[25:51] Speaker 1: about the UNI party taking care. But it means that
[25:55] Speaker 1: what's tough for you, is tough for me, is tough
[25:57] Speaker 1: for them, ends up being better for everyone one else.
[26:01] Speaker 1: But of course, because the government wants to pretend that
[26:05] Speaker 1: they are trimming their sales while they're actually adding a
[26:08] Speaker 1: new spinnaker to budget deficit, and they know how effective
[26:14] Speaker 1: he cuts U pay was at the last election. Jim
[26:18] Speaker 1: Charmer's not interested in bipartisanship or dare I say, even
[26:23] Speaker 1: working together with anyone, because of course he's the genius
[26:26] Speaker 1: in the room.
[26:28] Speaker 6: After the way he failed as Shadow Treasurer, he should
[26:31] Speaker 6: be let absolutely nowhere near a budget. He is the
[26:36] Speaker 6: last person that anyone should be taking advice from or
[26:39] Speaker 6: electors from when it comes to the budget position or
[26:42] Speaker 6: spending restraint.
[26:43] Speaker 1: So politics as usual, But sixty six percent of people
[26:48] Speaker 1: the total voters yes, some labor yes, some Greens yes,
[26:51] Speaker 1: some one nation yes, some coalition. They want the government
[26:55] Speaker 1: to pull its head in because the government, when it
[27:00] Speaker 1: spends more than it gets, adds to the debt to
[27:03] Speaker 1: the debt, to the debt to the debt. And while
[27:05] Speaker 1: the lights won't turn off anytime soon, the reality is
[27:10] Speaker 1: the debt goes from being the tenth biggest thing we
[27:13] Speaker 1: spend on the budget to eventually it goes, like in Victoria,
[27:16] Speaker 1: into the top five, meaning we'll spend more money on
[27:20] Speaker 1: things like servicing debt than our national defense. One last
[27:26] Speaker 1: thing from these polls about what people think should be
[27:29] Speaker 1: cut from the federal budget, Well, unsurprisingly, I would suggest
[27:33] Speaker 1: that the center right of politics is the one that
[27:35] Speaker 1: has rallied around the idea of foreign aid. Fifty three
[27:38] Speaker 1: percent of people. But let's be honest, fifty three percent
[27:41] Speaker 1: of people might like cutting back on foreign aid. They'll
[27:44] Speaker 1: say we have to pay foreign aid because every dollar
[27:46] Speaker 1: we don't spend in a place like Papua New Guinea
[27:48] Speaker 1: means China steps in and we get squeezed in. And
[27:51] Speaker 1: the overall foreign aid budget, well it's not that massive,
[27:53] Speaker 1: but still, what about renewable energy programs? Almost thirty percent
[27:58] Speaker 1: of people I can't don't believe they'll do this anytime soon,
[28:01] Speaker 1: but maybe cut back on the doll cut back on
[28:04] Speaker 1: the ndies, cut back on defense, and so on, all
[28:08] Speaker 1: the way down to five percent of people who think
[28:10] Speaker 1: that the age pension is clearly too much. I disagree
[28:14] Speaker 1: with each and every one of those people, but we'll
[28:18] Speaker 1: see what happens. That's what comes from the Resolve Political Monitor.
[28:21] Speaker 1: Let's get to a couple of things that I want
[28:22] Speaker 1: to mention before we finish up and get into the
[28:25] Speaker 1: debate this evening including the Liberal Party has not released
[28:31] Speaker 1: its review into what went wrong in the twenty twenty
[28:34] Speaker 1: five election, and it looks like they may never actually
[28:37] Speaker 1: release what that is. In fact, a controversial Liberal Party
[28:41] Speaker 1: reviewer its historic twenty and twenty five election defeats, which
[28:44] Speaker 1: one's a leader must never again be allowed to run
[28:46] Speaker 1: their own campaign, may not be made public over concerns
[28:49] Speaker 1: of some party executives that could further damage a liberal
[28:52] Speaker 1: standing with voters. And now that the person who was
[28:55] Speaker 1: against tax cuts and the one who lost the debate
[28:59] Speaker 1: on work from home, and the leader and deputy leader,
[29:02] Speaker 1: you would imagine that this thing may never see the
[29:05] Speaker 1: light of day. Let's talk about schools in Queensland and
[29:09] Speaker 1: the violence that is happening in those schools, which does
[29:13] Speaker 1: yet again show us that the kids aren't all right,
[29:15] Speaker 1: and there's a lot of kids that are causing significant
[29:18] Speaker 1: physical harm to their teachers or teachers' aides. New data
[29:23] Speaker 1: has revealed there were thirty four hundred and forty five
[29:26] Speaker 1: occupational violence and aggression inquiries into teachers and teachers' aides
[29:31] Speaker 1: which were lodged last year, up thirteen percent from twenty
[29:33] Speaker 1: twenty four. It equates to about seventy teacher injuries across
[29:37] Speaker 1: the state every school day last year. That's up from
[29:40] Speaker 1: sixty one the year before. It's situation a teacher is
[29:43] Speaker 1: comparing to domestic violence in the classroom. Still in Queensland,
[29:49] Speaker 1: let's talk about the weather, and it is almost a
[29:51] Speaker 1: state sport, not just a cheer in the maroons, but
[29:54] Speaker 1: also to check the Bureau of Meteorology's website and we
[29:57] Speaker 1: know how great that's been of the past. In a while,
[29:59] Speaker 1: we were being told as late a Sunday that there
[30:02] Speaker 1: was a flood alert for southeast Queensland, particularly Brisbane. Well
[30:07] Speaker 1: guess what the bomb predicted? Three hundred mills of rain.
[30:11] Speaker 1: The Bureau Meteorology has defended its warnings of a weekend
[30:14] Speaker 1: delusion Queensland, leading local councils to activate major flood measures,
[30:18] Speaker 1: but only thirty mills actually fell in Battled Weather Service
[30:23] Speaker 1: in its excess of three hundred mills in parts of
[30:25] Speaker 1: the south, said it would happen between Friday and Sunday.
[30:29] Speaker 1: The meteorologist says that some of the higher end numbers
[30:31] Speaker 1: could certainly exceed more than two hundred mills, wouldn't rule
[30:35] Speaker 1: out three hundred mills. Well, they only got it wrong
[30:38] Speaker 1: by two hundred and seventy millimeters. What the result was
[30:44] Speaker 1: was that local councils decided to set up places where
[30:46] Speaker 1: people could sandbag. Of course, there was no need for
[30:50] Speaker 1: the concern, and the argument may well be to be
[30:52] Speaker 1: better warned than not, but perhaps the Bureau could just
[30:55] Speaker 1: get it slightly better. They were still doing that on
[30:58] Speaker 1: Sunday when the rain in the southeast was just thirty
[31:01] Speaker 1: meals right, quick break back with more loss of discuss
[31:04] Speaker 1: this evening. We'll get in a fight for foure a
[31:06] Speaker 1: little bit later in the week. We've got some good
[31:08] Speaker 1: deep data and you know I love a deep die
[31:10] Speaker 1: to Dave. Will save that for another night because I
[31:11] Speaker 1: want to get to the conversation and I want to
[31:13] Speaker 1: know Nicholas Reese dancing with the King and Queen of
[31:17] Speaker 1: Moomber Why the mayor joins us for that? And a
[31:21] Speaker 1: more serious debate on more serious things. But you're in
[31:23] Speaker 1: the right place. You're watching Paul Murray live on a
[31:25] Speaker 1: Monday night here on Sky News. Thanks for watching. Matt
[31:31] Speaker 1: Canavan is the Senator representing Queensland beautifully in the Federal
[31:34] Speaker 1: Parliament and his back where he belongs in Queensland right now.
[31:37] Speaker 1: Plenty of things to talk about with him and the
[31:39] Speaker 1: wonderful Nicolas Rees who's the Lord Mayor of Melbourne. Nicholas,
[31:42] Speaker 1: why are you dancing with the Moomber King and Queen?
[31:45] Speaker 7: Well, of course that was big news in Melbourne today.
[31:48] Speaker 7: Our momber Minark's there, Sammy Jay and Katarine A Metti
[31:52] Speaker 7: the Red Wiggle. Of course, Mmber is the biggest Community
[31:56] Speaker 7: Festival in Australia. We're expecting one and a half million
[31:59] Speaker 7: people to turn up over the Labor Day long weekend.
[32:03] Speaker 1: So yes, I was.
[32:04] Speaker 7: At the Crowning and there was a Colombian dancing band.
[32:08] Speaker 7: There were African drums playing and we're all dancing having fun.
[32:11] Speaker 1: That's what we do in Melbourne.
[32:12] Speaker 3: Oh, we just we have fun.
[32:14] Speaker 1: Well, and I know you're looking forward to the Formula
[32:16] Speaker 1: one Grand Prix. Look, if you want to invite Matt
[32:19] Speaker 1: and I to the Mayor's Lands, we'll be there and
[32:22] Speaker 1: certainly enjoy ourselves. Matt can pay his own way, not
[32:24] Speaker 1: the taxpayer. All right, let's get to a whole bunch
[32:26] Speaker 1: of stuff that we need to get to here tonight. Matt.
[32:29] Speaker 1: Let's talk about the budget. Let's talk about this option
[32:32] Speaker 1: which was offered up by Angus Taylor today, which was, Hey,
[32:35] Speaker 1: why not rather than playing the same game If you
[32:37] Speaker 1: say its savings, but if we offer them you say
[32:40] Speaker 1: it's cuts, why not get in the room and try
[32:43] Speaker 1: and work out where each can give other a little
[32:45] Speaker 1: bit of cover to cut what is spending that, according
[32:49] Speaker 1: to the Generational Report, puts US in deficits for the
[32:52] Speaker 1: next forty years. But Charmer says no.
[32:57] Speaker 8: Well, Paul, someone's got to do it. We desperately need
[33:01] Speaker 8: a proper audit of the federal government spending. Keep in
[33:05] Speaker 8: mind that just before COVID, the budget, Before COVID, we
[33:10] Speaker 8: spent on your behalf in Canberra about four hundred and
[33:12] Speaker 8: eighty billion dollars in that year. After COVID the budget
[33:17] Speaker 8: up COVID, this financial year it'll be just shy of
[33:20] Speaker 8: seven hundred and eighty billion dollars. So government spending in
[33:24] Speaker 8: canber has gone up by three hundred billion dollars a year.
[33:27] Speaker 1: Every year.
[33:28] Speaker 8: This is every year it's been spent three hundred billion
[33:30] Speaker 8: dollars more. To put that into context for people watching
[33:34] Speaker 8: at home, they are about ten million households in Australia,
[33:37] Speaker 8: so that's thirty thousand dollars a year per household since COVID,
[33:43] Speaker 8: and of course we did have spending go up for
[33:45] Speaker 8: job keeper and keep things going during COVID, it just
[33:49] Speaker 8: never came back down.
[33:51] Speaker 1: To more normal levels.
[33:52] Speaker 8: It's stayed up and so there's been a clear need
[33:54] Speaker 8: for this audit. We haven't done a proper audit since
[33:56] Speaker 8: Tony Abbott was Prime Minister. It's about time it seems
[34:01] Speaker 8: to me the reaction from the Treasurer today is more
[34:04] Speaker 8: an example of someone just rejecting an idea because it
[34:07] Speaker 8: wasn't his, rather than thinking about what's best for the country.
[34:11] Speaker 8: So I think it's a great idea that angers is
[34:14] Speaker 8: offered up. Let's do it. We're happy to get our
[34:16] Speaker 8: hands dirty. But somebody, as I say, has to go
[34:19] Speaker 8: through the budget line by line, given this massive excess
[34:22] Speaker 8: of spending we've seen since COVID, and given the impact
[34:24] Speaker 8: that's had and delivering the highest interest rates and inflation
[34:28] Speaker 8: in the developed world here in Australia.
[34:30] Speaker 1: I mean, look, you know, Nick, you know what it's like,
[34:32] Speaker 1: of course to be a leader, and in federal politics,
[34:35] Speaker 1: if you can get sixty six percent of the population
[34:37] Speaker 1: in one place kind of helps. That's what people are
[34:40] Speaker 1: saying when it comes to government reducing spending, the number
[34:44] Speaker 1: one issue being foreign aid. But foreign aid's only five
[34:46] Speaker 1: billion dollars and I've stated the case why the government
[34:49] Speaker 1: would say that that's not the biggest area to cut.
[34:52] Speaker 1: But would you think that there's a moment here when
[34:55] Speaker 1: the government is so far in front the opposition, yes,
[34:57] Speaker 1: is so far behind, that there is an opportun unity
[35:00] Speaker 1: here to give each other a bit of cover, to
[35:02] Speaker 1: do some of the to swallow some of the pills
[35:04] Speaker 1: that maybe they wouldn't otherwise do.
[35:07] Speaker 7: Yeah, Paul, I mean I would have liked to have
[35:09] Speaker 7: seen the government give this idea more consideration than what
[35:12] Speaker 7: it got today. Unfortunately, in the camera bubble everything is
[35:17] Speaker 7: viewed very cynically and I don't know if there's a
[35:21] Speaker 7: political strategy in this. I suspected probably was a bit
[35:24] Speaker 7: of that, but that doesn't mean it's not an idea
[35:26] Speaker 7: that's worth looking as So, Yeah, I would have liked
[35:28] Speaker 7: to see the government give it a bit more consideration.
[35:32] Speaker 3: But it's not just this particular idea. There's other ways
[35:36] Speaker 3: that we can get to bipartis the outcomes when we
[35:38] Speaker 3: have parliamentary committees. Matt Cannevan there serves on a couple
[35:41] Speaker 3: of them. They have people from different parties on them,
[35:45] Speaker 3: and why don't they make more of an effort to
[35:47] Speaker 3: form consensus positions on these tricky issues that have trade offs,
[35:51] Speaker 3: do have a cost or an impact and see what
[35:54] Speaker 3: brave ideas they can put forward.
[35:57] Speaker 1: Well. Also, Matt, you had an absolute belt of last
[35:59] Speaker 1: week in incident estimates when you were ripping into the
[36:01] Speaker 1: Finance minister who couldn't quite locate thirty billion dollars. Frightening
[36:06] Speaker 1: for anyone who saw right. But is that the level
[36:09] Speaker 1: of disinterest that the government has is that if you
[36:11] Speaker 1: find a hole, they want to pretend that it's an illusion.
[36:17] Speaker 8: Well look, just on what Nick just said, I've got one.
[36:19] Speaker 8: Here's want to prepared earlier. Nick, I actually did lodge
[36:22] Speaker 8: a Senate inquiry in the last sitting week to do
[36:25] Speaker 8: just what you were saying, to have the Senate Economics
[36:28] Speaker 8: Committee go through the budget, look at it line by line,
[36:31] Speaker 8: do a proper audit just what Angus is saying. So look,
[36:34] Speaker 8: we didn't get indication of support from the government. Unfortunately,
[36:37] Speaker 8: ran out of time in that Senate week to get
[36:40] Speaker 8: to my motion. But it's sitting there waiting, so waiting
[36:43] Speaker 8: for the If the Labor Party backsit, Collision backsit, we're
[36:46] Speaker 8: in baby, we'll get it going. But yeah, on set
[36:49] Speaker 8: of estimates last week, I mean, what I was questioning
[36:52] Speaker 8: the Minister of Finance about was a fifty billion or
[36:54] Speaker 8: forty eight billion dollar blowout in existing programs. I was
[36:58] Speaker 8: trying to get to the bottom of where where is that? Like,
[37:00] Speaker 8: how did it get to forty eight billion dollars and
[37:03] Speaker 8: she was able to get up to a close to
[37:06] Speaker 8: twenty billion. So that was the thirty billion. Well where's
[37:08] Speaker 8: the other thirty billion, minister? And she couldn't explain it,
[37:11] Speaker 8: So that's a big blow. Keep in mind, this is
[37:13] Speaker 8: a blower in six months. So in April last year,
[37:16] Speaker 8: ahead of the election, the government hands the down it's figures,
[37:19] Speaker 8: saying this is how much things are going to cost.
[37:21] Speaker 8: They're the figures we used, the coalition used to develop
[37:24] Speaker 8: our election costings. Six months later, just before Christmas, the
[37:28] Speaker 8: government that, oh, actually we got these things wrong to
[37:30] Speaker 8: the tune of forty eight billion dollars. So this wasn't
[37:33] Speaker 8: new decisions. It wasn't like, oh, we're now going to
[37:35] Speaker 8: spend money on more on defense, on buying these tanks,
[37:39] Speaker 8: we're going to spend money on age care. This was
[37:42] Speaker 8: this was just a blowout in what they'd previously estimated.
[37:45] Speaker 8: And if you think the Bureau of Meteorology is making
[37:47] Speaker 8: mistakes right now, you ain't seen nothing when you go
[37:50] Speaker 8: through the Treasury Department in camera.
[37:52] Speaker 1: Very fair point. Now, of course, the Senate Committee being
[37:54] Speaker 1: able to get it up, even if Labor voted against it.
[37:57] Speaker 1: You could do it with the Greens one nation and
[37:59] Speaker 1: everyone else Labor not in a position of majority. So
[38:02] Speaker 1: again the hammers on them to see whether the Greens
[38:04] Speaker 1: of the protection racket spoken to them.
[38:06] Speaker 8: To Paul, I'm happy to he'll get anyone's support, begause.
[38:10] Speaker 1: Can you film that meeting next time? I'd like to
[38:11] Speaker 1: see it happen. All right, Now, let's talk about that.
[38:14] Speaker 7: We should do a spot one night, Paul, where you
[38:16] Speaker 7: go through the menu of budget cuts and if Matt
[38:19] Speaker 7: and I can agree on one, well hell or in
[38:21] Speaker 7: the Parliament could as well, and we will tick them off.
[38:24] Speaker 7: Will tick them off, all right, Mike, I will say,
[38:26] Speaker 7: I balk at the balk at the foreign aid budget,
[38:30] Speaker 7: you know, slashing that like that.
[38:31] Speaker 1: That's a real cheap shot.
[38:32] Speaker 3: That's that's the et.
[38:34] Speaker 1: It's five billions. So even if you got rid of
[38:36] Speaker 1: a one hundred percent of it, it's not the problem. Right.
[38:38] Speaker 1: The problem is what we're running at a thirty billion
[38:40] Speaker 1: dollar budget deficit this year, so even if that five,
[38:43] Speaker 1: you've got twenty five after that. Anyway, let's talk here
[38:45] Speaker 1: about the back and forth today in and around banning
[38:48] Speaker 1: certain people from certain countries in certain areas because they
[38:52] Speaker 1: shouldn't come into the country. Why because from where they
[38:54] Speaker 1: come is controlled by a terrorist. Nick. It seems to
[38:58] Speaker 1: have come from somewhere in the draft folder of Susan
[39:01] Speaker 1: lee As emails before she was out the door. Taylor
[39:06] Speaker 1: not throwing it under the bus, but not putting his
[39:08] Speaker 1: arms around it either. So we're sort of wrestling with
[39:10] Speaker 1: smoke here. But what would you think about some level
[39:13] Speaker 1: of discrimination in our otherwise nondiscriminatory immigration program. Yeah, I
[39:19] Speaker 1: think this is a very bad idea, Paul.
[39:21] Speaker 7: This is straight out of the Trump playbook, and frankly,
[39:24] Speaker 7: I think it's UnAustralian. I mean, every country has good
[39:28] Speaker 7: and bad people in it, and the idea that good
[39:32] Speaker 7: people from a country that has a bad government couldn't
[39:35] Speaker 7: come here, I don't think that is very fair.
[39:38] Speaker 1: I mean Australia as.
[39:39] Speaker 7: Full of people who have come here from other nations
[39:42] Speaker 7: that had bad governments. You know, my wife's family came
[39:44] Speaker 7: here from Greece. They had the fascists and the communists
[39:47] Speaker 7: going after each other. What would we not take the Greeks?
[39:50] Speaker 7: Now we'll think about the Irish half of Australia's got
[39:52] Speaker 7: an Irish background. They had terrorist organizations off Braggon Island.
[39:56] Speaker 7: Well into the two thousand, we'd have Irish people that
[39:59] Speaker 7: had come to this country. So I think it's an
[40:01] Speaker 7: Australian I think it's a really cheap shot straight out
[40:05] Speaker 7: of the Trump playbook, and it should never be the
[40:08] Speaker 7: way we do things in this country.
[40:09] Speaker 1: Well, Matt, again the opposition is not saying that it
[40:11] Speaker 1: is the playbook, but apparently it was one Susan Lee
[40:13] Speaker 1: was thinking about before she went your thoughts on it.
[40:16] Speaker 1: And again, what is different than the many of the
[40:17] Speaker 1: countries and the timelines that were being discussed there is
[40:20] Speaker 1: these are often radical Islam hotspots.
[40:25] Speaker 8: Well, I think what has to happen is it has
[40:27] Speaker 8: to be horses for courses and it's got to be
[40:30] Speaker 8: in the interests of Australians. And we have already said
[40:33] Speaker 8: and the Collation has said, for example, we wouldn't have
[40:35] Speaker 8: taken refugees from Gaza in the last couple of years
[40:39] Speaker 8: because there simply was no process established to vet and
[40:43] Speaker 8: indicate who has come to this country. The key thing
[40:45] Speaker 8: is we have to have a vetting process. We have
[40:47] Speaker 8: to have a process that knows that the people coming
[40:50] Speaker 8: here have not committed crimes themselves, not just terrorism, but
[40:52] Speaker 8: any other crimes as well. And so where you have
[40:55] Speaker 8: parts of the world where there are effectively no states,
[40:58] Speaker 8: no governments, no records idea where people have come from,
[41:02] Speaker 8: I don't see why we should open the doors to
[41:05] Speaker 8: those people. There are plenty of people that want to
[41:07] Speaker 8: come here, plenty of good people that want to come here.
[41:09] Speaker 8: We're taking in far too many people as well, which
[41:11] Speaker 8: is quietly separate issue. So there's no need for us
[41:13] Speaker 8: to act desperate here and just take whoever comes. So
[41:18] Speaker 8: I think it has to be something in balance, and
[41:21] Speaker 8: sometimes there are going to be places in the world
[41:23] Speaker 8: like Gaza at the moment, where it's just impossible for
[41:26] Speaker 8: us to get to the bottom of who these people are,
[41:27] Speaker 8: and therefore we shouldn't take them.
[41:28] Speaker 1: Thank you lads, do appreciate it. We'll see if there's
[41:31] Speaker 1: consensus next weeks. And breaking news on The Australian's website
[41:33] Speaker 1: right now is that there are eleven Isis bride families
[41:37] Speaker 1: which are apparently making their way back to Australia, thirty
[41:39] Speaker 1: four people in total. They are going to need passports,
[41:43] Speaker 1: the kids will need passports. Will the government give it
[41:45] Speaker 1: to them? There's a reason they're moving. We'll get to that,
[41:48] Speaker 1: no doubt in the next couple of days. Quick break
[41:50] Speaker 1: back with more What country is about to join Australia
[41:52] Speaker 1: by banning social media for under sixteens? You find out
[41:55] Speaker 1: next to you're on Pomorray Lowe I the UK is
[42:00] Speaker 1: none other than the high energy, big smile, wonderfully bespicaled
[42:04] Speaker 1: man otherwise known as Mark Dolan. Of course, talk to
[42:06] Speaker 1: v where you can find him regularly. You can find
[42:08] Speaker 1: him on his YouTube and it's always great to have
[42:09] Speaker 1: a chat to him. Now Australia kicks off the ball
[42:12] Speaker 1: with this ben for social media under the age of sixteen,
[42:14] Speaker 1: the UK looks like it's going to do the same.
[42:17] Speaker 2: Mate, well, most definitely, And I know that it's been
[42:21] Speaker 2: obviously well intentioned this move in Australia, and it's been
[42:24] Speaker 2: successful to a degree. I've been interested by some of
[42:27] Speaker 2: the numbers. Maybe five million accounts have been shut down
[42:30] Speaker 2: that were owned by or or set up by under sixteen's.
[42:34] Speaker 2: The Prime Minister is doing it in the UK. But
[42:37] Speaker 2: you know, forgive me for being a little skeptical. I
[42:39] Speaker 2: think this is a distraction for Keir Starmer from the
[42:41] Speaker 2: very real problems that he's responsible for that face the
[42:44] Speaker 2: British people, rampant inflation, low growth, open borders, wokery in
[42:50] Speaker 2: our public institutions, the eyewatering cost of net zero. So
[42:54] Speaker 2: this is a prime minister under pressure and he's doing
[42:57] Speaker 2: what he loves to do as a former lawyer, which
[42:59] Speaker 2: is priscal stuff. So yes, it's well intentioned. But is
[43:03] Speaker 2: this going to move the dial for Brits struggling with
[43:06] Speaker 2: the cost of living? I don't think so, And I
[43:08] Speaker 2: don't think, as it's been demonstrated in Australia that this
[43:12] Speaker 2: legislation will necessarily be a silver bullet. You know as
[43:15] Speaker 2: well as I do, Paul, how ingenious under sixteen's are
[43:19] Speaker 2: online and they've got VPNs, they're able to circum navigate.
[43:23] Speaker 2: So yes, well intentioned, but I'm waiting to see whether
[43:26] Speaker 2: the results are in any way tangible.
[43:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we've seen a scenario again with those
[43:31] Speaker 1: millions of accounts were nuked. I'm waiting to see a
[43:35] Speaker 1: little more data about the workaround, about whether in that
[43:39] Speaker 1: particular year there was an increase in new ones that
[43:42] Speaker 1: had started. But can I suggest and let me sort
[43:44] Speaker 1: of take you sort of six months down the road
[43:47] Speaker 1: if they start to do this stuff. Right now, there's
[43:50] Speaker 1: confusion on the edges, but the edges really matter like roadblocks. Now, again,
[43:55] Speaker 1: if you've got kids, you understand what this is, if
[43:57] Speaker 1: you don't just think about it as the latest thing
[44:00] Speaker 1: that certain kids are absolutely nuts for. The problem is
[44:03] Speaker 1: is that if you allow kids to use roadblocks or yes,
[44:08] Speaker 1: even the other gaming systems where they can play with
[44:11] Speaker 1: other people on the internet, that the other person on
[44:13] Speaker 1: the Internet can end up being a creep. Now, if
[44:15] Speaker 1: the logic is that one of the reasons why you
[44:17] Speaker 1: shut down social media is because you don't want creeps
[44:19] Speaker 1: to get access to your kids, you need to shut
[44:23] Speaker 1: it down. And if they're going to go to YouTube,
[44:25] Speaker 1: and YouTube can obviously be quite an educational thing, but
[44:27] Speaker 1: often is used for people either watching videos of people
[44:31] Speaker 1: playing video games or fail videos, which I particularly love,
[44:34] Speaker 1: or that hydraulic press, which for some reason I watch
[44:36] Speaker 1: hours and hours of and I think you might too,
[44:39] Speaker 1: but love it. There's lots of crap that is there,
[44:42] Speaker 1: but roadblocks and those media systems are part of So
[44:47] Speaker 1: when they're listing, put the pressure on and put the
[44:50] Speaker 1: hammer down to make sure that things like roadblocks don't
[44:52] Speaker 1: go through because I think they'll eventually plug the hole
[44:54] Speaker 1: here in Australia, but it's a whole. I hope that
[44:56] Speaker 1: you're able to find to fix the net before it's
[44:59] Speaker 1: a hole in the net and the un I think
[45:01] Speaker 1: you're so right.
[45:02] Speaker 2: And it's always about the execution of these things. The
[45:04] Speaker 2: devil is in the detail and the political will and
[45:07] Speaker 2: the support of the big tech giants. You know, it's
[45:09] Speaker 2: going to be very joined up. Australia has shown huge leadership.
[45:13] Speaker 2: I mean, this is a global story and we are
[45:15] Speaker 2: watching with great interest what happens. You know, it's about
[45:19] Speaker 2: the safety of children, it's about their well being. I
[45:21] Speaker 2: would go beyond some of this sort of technocratic leavers
[45:24] Speaker 2: that are being pulled Paul. I'd look at education as well.
[45:27] Speaker 2: In the classroom, yes, and I would encourage kids when
[45:30] Speaker 2: they're in the classroom to have a break from screens.
[45:33] Speaker 2: You know, why are teachers so proudly announcing that every
[45:36] Speaker 2: kid gets a laptop or your homework is online or
[45:40] Speaker 2: the worksheet is found via this link. Can we please
[45:43] Speaker 2: print a couple of you know, worksheets out? Can we
[45:46] Speaker 2: have handwriting? It's an amazing way to be creative and
[45:49] Speaker 2: to process intellectual thought is by writing things down. It's
[45:52] Speaker 2: a great way to learn and to remember and to
[45:55] Speaker 2: absorb information. You know, the kids when they get home,
[45:57] Speaker 2: there's enough screen time. Also, for a long time mobile
[46:01] Speaker 2: phones have been allowed in the classroom, which is wild.
[46:04] Speaker 2: So let's get back to basics and understand that, yes,
[46:06] Speaker 2: it's a digital world, but these youngsters can have a
[46:09] Speaker 2: few precious years where they are sheltered from the worst
[46:12] Speaker 2: excesses of the Internet.
[46:13] Speaker 1: And look, ob be clear, I think it is two
[46:15] Speaker 1: things can be true. Right, it's a helpful distraction for
[46:17] Speaker 1: bad governments, as it was here, but it's also, you know,
[46:20] Speaker 1: I think on balance a a good thing. But finally
[46:23] Speaker 1: I think, so, yeah, let's get to the Andrew mount
[46:27] Speaker 1: Batten Windsor of it all. What's the latest and our
[46:30] Speaker 1: local police starting to close.
[46:32] Speaker 2: In well, most definitely and Paul, Britain's chief prosecutor has
[46:38] Speaker 2: said that no one is above the law, including Andrew
[46:41] Speaker 2: mount Batten Windsor. And the clue is in the name.
[46:43] Speaker 2: There's no Prince Andrew, there there's no hrh, there's no
[46:46] Speaker 2: Duke of York, so he's not immune from prosecution. And
[46:50] Speaker 2: the most serious allegation against him at the moment in
[46:53] Speaker 2: terms of his potential criminal behavior is his time as
[46:58] Speaker 2: a Trade envoy for a day representing the UK government,
[47:02] Speaker 2: allegedly sharing market sensitive, commercially sensitive UK government data with
[47:10] Speaker 2: nations around the world, Vietnam, Man, Vietnam, all the rest
[47:13] Speaker 2: of it, going straight to Epstein. On some occasions he's
[47:16] Speaker 2: emailed Epstein the minutes of private meetings just moments after
[47:20] Speaker 2: having had them, so he was in the pocket by
[47:22] Speaker 2: the looks of it of Epstein. Of course, the Prince denies,
[47:25] Speaker 2: all former Prince denies the allegations. But what he could
[47:28] Speaker 2: have done has been in breach of the very very
[47:32] Speaker 2: sensitive misconduct in public office. He was technically a UK official,
[47:38] Speaker 2: he may have signed the Official Secrets Act. It's not
[47:40] Speaker 2: beyond the wits of man that he'll go to jail.
[47:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be fascinating, just saying, a scary time
[47:45] Speaker 1: for him, and well we'll all filed the same way.
[47:47] Speaker 1: Thank you, mate, appreciate it. Quick break back with more
[47:49] Speaker 1: here on Paul Murray Live. Yeah, just to remind about
[47:56] Speaker 1: that breaking news, which is that apparently eleven families thirty
[48:01] Speaker 1: five people have moved out of a Syrian refugee camp
[48:06] Speaker 1: and they are apparently on their way home to Australia.
[48:08] Speaker 1: This includes again eleven families with ISIS brides. Now the government,
[48:15] Speaker 1: through a spokesperson tonight, has said that they are not
[48:18] Speaker 1: facilitating their return. It is supposedly happening through a humanitarian organization.
[48:23] Speaker 1: But of course children which may well have been born
[48:27] Speaker 1: outside of the country, well they need passports. If the
[48:30] Speaker 1: government has provided them with the passports, well then that
[48:33] Speaker 1: would in my argument, be facilitating their return. One more
[48:37] Speaker 1: reminder that I want as many people as possible at
[48:39] Speaker 1: Bernie this weekend when we are at our first our town.
[48:42] Speaker 1: If you'd like to join us in Bernie in Tasmania,
[48:44] Speaker 1: you know what to do. Send the email our town
[48:46] Speaker 1: it's goingnews dot com dot AU. Ourtown It's Gonnews dot
[48:49] Speaker 1: com dot see you tomorrow. Here's a Lake debate

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