# The Big Story: Cornered Rats Always Squeal (EP4982)

An episode of [The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio| Daily Mystery Dramas](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/335549005), 26 May 2026, 33 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pdrl.fm/997ffb/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72164041/gd4982.mp3

Today's Mystery:A reporter believes that a police informer is hiding something and sets out to fo find the truth. Original Radio Broadcast:August 16, 1950 Originating in New York Starring: Bill Smith as Chester Potter, Joan Shea, Larry Haines, Bill Lipton, George Petrie, Joe DeSantis Support the show monthly at https://patreon.greatdetectives.net Patreon Supporter of the Day: Robert, Patreon supporter since March 2025 Support the show on a one-time basis at http://support.greatdetectives.net. Mail a donation to: Adam Graham, PO Box 15913, Boise, Idaho 83715 Take the listener survey…http://survey.greatdetectives.net Give us a call 208-991-4783 Follow us on Instagram at http://instagram.com/greatdetectives Become one of our friends on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter@radiodetectives Join us again tomorrow for another detective drama from the Golden Age of Radio.

## Transcript

[0:28] Speaker 1: Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho.
[0:35] Speaker 1: This is your host, Adam Graham. In a moment, we're
[0:38] Speaker 1: going to bring you this week's episode of The Big Story.
[0:41] Speaker 1: But first I want to encourage you. If you're enjoying
[0:44] Speaker 1: a podcast, please follow us using your favorite podcast software.
[0:49] Speaker 1: And I do want to encourage you to check out
[0:52] Speaker 1: our other podcast and today I'm highlighting the amazing world
[0:56] Speaker 1: of radio at Amazing Great detect Actives dot net. Tomorrow
[1:02] Speaker 1: we begin our summer series which will feature Colombo Killers
[1:08] Speaker 1: in Old Time Radio. It's a great summer coming up
[1:12] Speaker 1: as we'll be playing old time radio program featuring actors
[1:17] Speaker 1: who would go on to play the murderer in an
[1:20] Speaker 1: episode of Colombo. We'll both play the old time radio
[1:24] Speaker 1: program and we'll talk about their career as well as
[1:28] Speaker 1: their Colombo episode, with stars such as Eddie Albert and
[1:32] Speaker 1: Baxter Raymondlan, Jackie Cooper, and so much more. Check it
[1:37] Speaker 1: out at Amazing Dot Great Detectives dot net. But now
[1:42] Speaker 1: from August sixteenth, nineteen fifty here is Cornered Rats Always Squeal.
[1:51] Speaker 2: The Big Story. That's all I have, gentlemen. Just these
[2:02] Speaker 2: watches you see in the case, and these rings and
[2:06] Speaker 2: none of them suit you.
[2:07] Speaker 3: Uh think I want something better, maybe with little diamonds
[2:10] Speaker 3: on it. Let's see some of your more expensive stuff.
[2:12] Speaker 3: I got nothing in the store just now. Don't you
[2:15] Speaker 3: remember we were in last week? He showed us some
[2:17] Speaker 3: of those buttes in the tray right over there. You
[2:20] Speaker 3: gotta remember, Marrow, sure, Oh, big tray for them.
[2:23] Speaker 2: I remember when I see I don't think there's any left,
[2:26] Speaker 2: but I see you stand there. I know what you want.
[2:30] Speaker 2: I'm going to call the police.
[2:31] Speaker 4: Not a good idea, lavement.
[2:33] Speaker 2: Do you think I won't shoot this gun if I
[2:34] Speaker 2: have to?
[2:34] Speaker 4: I think you might pop if I gave you a chance.
[2:38] Speaker 4: They start, stop it stops. Yeah, I guess you're right.
[2:44] Speaker 4: It's kind of dead.
[2:54] Speaker 5: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. From the pages of the Pittsburgh Press comes
[2:59] Speaker 5: the story of reporter who used the code of the
[3:02] Speaker 5: underworld even though it turned his stomach to do so. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
[3:13] Speaker 5: The story as it actually happened, Chester Potter's story as
[3:18] Speaker 5: he lived it. The first killing was of a jeweler
[3:35] Speaker 5: named Emmanuel Liebman. He was found dead with eight bullets
[3:39] Speaker 5: in his body, sprawled behind his kneet counter with an
[3:43] Speaker 5: unfired gun in his hand.
[3:46] Speaker 6: It was one of those things.
[3:48] Speaker 7: Eight shots fired at nine point thirty in the morning
[3:50] Speaker 7: in the Hazelwood section of Pittsburgh, and no one heard
[3:54] Speaker 7: a shot, No one had seen anything. You got to
[3:58] Speaker 7: the store, you fifty one year old Chet Potter of
[4:02] Speaker 7: the Pittsburgh Press, twenty nine years on this kind of thing,
[4:06] Speaker 7: and twenty nine.
[4:07] Speaker 8: Years of hating it.
[4:08] Speaker 7: Not the work, but the facts ab our people that
[4:11] Speaker 7: you got to report. And in the past seven years
[4:14] Speaker 7: you've gotten yourself a nickname. You don't like, No Conviction Potter.
[4:19] Speaker 7: They call you at the paper and at headquarters because
[4:22] Speaker 7: the last twelve stories you were on no conviction.
[4:26] Speaker 8: This looks like one of your specialties.
[4:28] Speaker 6: Putters hau very funny. You mean no conviction?
[4:31] Speaker 9: Well, as the assistant district attorney, I haven't got an
[4:33] Speaker 9: opinion yet for publication, that is, But it's just playing
[4:37] Speaker 9: Jack Boudreau.
[4:38] Speaker 8: This is a no conviction if I ever saw one, How.
[4:40] Speaker 10: Could it be? What were the eight shots fired? Nobody
[4:43] Speaker 10: heard anything? No, Well, he must have run out of
[4:45] Speaker 10: the store. Somebody must have seen him.
[4:47] Speaker 8: Well nobody did.
[4:49] Speaker 6: What kind of family is there?
[4:51] Speaker 4: You're going to like this wife and five kids.
[4:56] Speaker 6: What about the stoolies? Anything doing there?
[4:58] Speaker 8: Well, even if somebody were to talk, what's the to
[5:00] Speaker 8: tie to it? Nothing? No witnesses, no gun, just eight
[5:03] Speaker 8: thirty eight caliber.
[5:04] Speaker 7: Slugs the guy with five cutes, just because the Assistant
[5:09] Speaker 7: district Attorney, Jack Boudreau said, even if the stoolies talked,
[5:13] Speaker 7: what is that to tie it with?
[5:16] Speaker 6: You didn't let it rest there.
[5:18] Speaker 8: That was the way you were.
[5:20] Speaker 7: You saw the family talk to the three wide eyed
[5:23] Speaker 7: girls and the two days boys, the inconsolable widow. You
[5:28] Speaker 7: made the rounds, pushed, pro yanked, asked questions, and you've
[5:33] Speaker 7: got just where you've gotten on your last twelve stories.
[5:37] Speaker 7: No conviction, no suspects, nowhere. Then sixteen months go by,
[5:46] Speaker 7: the second killing had this much in common with the first.
[5:50] Speaker 8: Eight shots were also.
[5:51] Speaker 7: Fired an enormous quantity of lead poort into the body
[5:54] Speaker 7: of a man named Cheach, a driver for a robbery gang.
[5:58] Speaker 7: A man named Cheach who hangs out of life despite
[6:01] Speaker 7: eight thirty eight caliber slugs in his body.
[6:03] Speaker 6: Who did it, teacher?
[6:05] Speaker 4: Get me a drink of water?
[6:08] Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, just suck on the straw. Who was it?
[6:13] Speaker 8: Look?
[6:14] Speaker 4: You would to know me?
[6:15] Speaker 6: Better.
[6:16] Speaker 11: Your friend Boutro's over there in the corner. He ain't asking,
[6:21] Speaker 11: he ain't asking questions. Let me alone.
[6:25] Speaker 10: Come on, Keach, I don't care one hood about you.
[6:27] Speaker 10: But when that kind of led is poured into two people,
[6:29] Speaker 10: maybe the same guy did it. Now, Look, Keach, you're
[6:32] Speaker 10: gonna die. You're gonna die soon, and you're gonna die hard.
[6:35] Speaker 10: Give yourself a quarter of a chance to get some
[6:37] Speaker 10: peace before you get out of here.
[6:38] Speaker 11: My mamma told me a long time ago. Don't talk
[6:42] Speaker 11: to cops and don't talk the cop reporters.
[6:46] Speaker 4: Give me the water chat.
[6:48] Speaker 6: Yeah, I know, totally underworld something like that, But there
[6:51] Speaker 6: are exceptions. I mean it.
[6:54] Speaker 9: There's a nice, quiet talking type of the name of
[6:56] Speaker 9: Tommy Carr out of my office. I just came up
[6:58] Speaker 9: here for the routine confirmation. Is it any there being none?
[7:01] Speaker 9: Maybe will adjourn and listen to Tommy Carr. Oh, Keach,
[7:06] Speaker 9: I hope it doesn't hurt you too much?
[7:08] Speaker 4: Rough dead.
[7:09] Speaker 7: Yeah, mister Thomas Carr is a louse from way back.
[7:19] Speaker 8: How old is he?
[7:21] Speaker 4: Thirty four? Twenty nine years a loss since he was.
[7:25] Speaker 7: Five, And now the louse picked up on a robbery
[7:28] Speaker 7: charge is talking true to his character.
[7:32] Speaker 12: On the job was well planned. I got to say
[7:34] Speaker 12: that first payroll was like twenty nine dollars. See, it
[7:39] Speaker 12: was for us. I got to get the boys real credit.
[7:42] Speaker 12: You know, Meryll, the kid he's been studying up. He
[7:45] Speaker 12: planted he's the place too quickly. Time in is on
[7:49] Speaker 12: the paymaster and et cetera. Keach, well, he wasn't cut
[7:53] Speaker 12: on his brain. See but trust with k you know
[7:55] Speaker 12: what I mean, always did a good job when he
[7:57] Speaker 12: was told what to do. He's still hanging on. Amazing
[8:03] Speaker 12: these young kids. The stamina they cut eight slugs in them.
[8:06] Speaker 12: Gotta give them credit on come on.
[8:08] Speaker 4: Yeah. So anyway, Keach got a kind of little greedy.
[8:14] Speaker 12: He taught the fourth he was supposed to get wasn't
[8:16] Speaker 12: enough on the kind of how he was taking big
[8:18] Speaker 12: the chances and etc. So he puts a gun on
[8:21] Speaker 12: Meryl puts a gun on him.
[8:23] Speaker 6: And that's that fight among you guys. Is that it?
[8:26] Speaker 4: Well, guys are very funny.
[8:28] Speaker 12: You know, you put twenty nine thousand dollars on the
[8:30] Speaker 12: table between four crooks.
[8:32] Speaker 4: A lot of trouble can come out of that.
[8:33] Speaker 8: And you were one of the four.
[8:35] Speaker 12: Oh no, mister Boudro. You know what you got on me?
[8:38] Speaker 12: What chance have I got? I'm a parole. I'm not
[8:40] Speaker 12: supposed to be associated with this kind of folks. You
[8:43] Speaker 12: gotta right to send me back for thirteen years right now.
[8:46] Speaker 12: I don't deny it. I didn't shoot Keach Merylton that
[8:49] Speaker 12: you cops one egg.
[8:50] Speaker 4: In your beer?
[8:51] Speaker 12: What are you telling us all this for? Well, it's
[8:54] Speaker 12: like this scene. First of all, I turned state Sevance
[8:58] Speaker 12: the da. He says, like he always says, I can
[9:01] Speaker 12: promise you're no special consideration. But at the same time,
[9:05] Speaker 12: while he's saying that, in the back of his mind,
[9:07] Speaker 12: he's kind of grateful to me in a way.
[9:08] Speaker 4: You see.
[9:09] Speaker 12: I mean I make convictions easier and etc. So who
[9:13] Speaker 12: knows you might be a little lighter on me. And
[9:15] Speaker 12: the second is that parbe what I got to go before.
[9:17] Speaker 12: I know those guys, they're like a fellow who's.
[9:20] Speaker 4: Cooperated, if you know what I mean.
[9:22] Speaker 6: I heard you were kind of a nice, kind of
[9:24] Speaker 6: a love Yeah, I know.
[9:26] Speaker 4: Now, let's see. You want the other member of the gang.
[9:28] Speaker 4: I told you there was fourth.
[9:30] Speaker 12: That's me and Marilyn Ketch and the fourth the fourth
[9:32] Speaker 12: is Noonan seventy five twenty five.
[9:34] Speaker 4: Noonan. We call him that on account of that's the
[9:37] Speaker 4: cudios trying, so we know, we know.
[9:38] Speaker 6: Come on, well, now.
[9:40] Speaker 12: If I can make a suggestion to you, I think
[9:43] Speaker 12: this is going to surprise you. I'd pick up Noonan
[9:46] Speaker 12: on the robbery, but for TenneT twenty at least.
[9:49] Speaker 4: But if you stop here, you'd be missing a bed.
[9:51] Speaker 8: How's that?
[9:53] Speaker 12: What je happened to remember? Kind of a jeweler by
[9:56] Speaker 12: the name of Emmanuel Liebman.
[9:59] Speaker 6: What about Lee?
[10:00] Speaker 12: Well, nobody thought about Noanan and living today. Now, now
[10:04] Speaker 12: I can't say exactly that Noan shot him since I
[10:06] Speaker 12: didn't say him to it. Only well I asked him,
[10:09] Speaker 12: mister Tenney eight seventy five twenty five, well known for
[10:12] Speaker 12: the way he keeps squeezing the.
[10:13] Speaker 8: Trick he was saying, Nolan did it.
[10:14] Speaker 12: Well, all I know is the morning got that showed
[10:16] Speaker 12: in like fifteen twenty minutes after it happened. I got
[10:18] Speaker 12: a phone call from Nonan and he says, I'm in
[10:20] Speaker 12: trouble fed card.
[10:22] Speaker 4: So I says, compile, I'll help you.
[10:23] Speaker 6: No, you helped him, all right, you helped him? Fine?
[10:25] Speaker 12: What kept my mouth shut sixteen months without saying a
[10:27] Speaker 12: word tonight.
[10:29] Speaker 4: What's somebody you don't like my testimony?
[10:30] Speaker 9: Mister all right, all right, I want a statement on
[10:33] Speaker 9: all this car signed. I don't want you suddenly discovering
[10:36] Speaker 9: and then he broke your arm to get it out
[10:37] Speaker 9: of here.
[10:39] Speaker 4: It's fair with Tony. I may be a Stoley, but
[10:42] Speaker 4: nobody says I ever went back on my word.
[10:45] Speaker 12: If you want the real Frank Drot, I was wondering
[10:48] Speaker 12: how come you didn't have a secretary in here, in etc.
[10:51] Speaker 4: To take it down? As I was telling you, I
[10:53] Speaker 4: got to repeat the whole thing. O.
[11:00] Speaker 7: Merrill is picked up and nonan and car locked away.
[11:04] Speaker 7: And for this kind of expert information, a good crook
[11:08] Speaker 7: always knows precisely what is needed for a short conviction.
[11:11] Speaker 7: The robbery charge is slapped on hould them why they
[11:14] Speaker 7: try to prove the murder and out of it comes
[11:18] Speaker 7: Theodore Merril.
[11:19] Speaker 13: You are sentenced to the State Penitentiary for a term
[11:22] Speaker 13: of not less than twenty and not more than forty years.
[11:29] Speaker 13: David Noonan, you are sentenced to the State Penitentiary for
[11:32] Speaker 13: complicity and murder in the second degree thirty to sixty years.
[11:40] Speaker 13: Thomas Carr, you are sentenced to return to the county
[11:44] Speaker 13: jail to serve out the balance of your unexpired sentence
[11:47] Speaker 13: of thirteen years for violation of parole.
[11:54] Speaker 7: Heach dies Marilyn Noonan go to the Western Penitentiary and
[11:59] Speaker 7: car smiling because he knows that to the county jail
[12:03] Speaker 7: and easy life awaiting the other cases he's consented to
[12:06] Speaker 7: sing about.
[12:07] Speaker 4: I ain't such a dope, how am I? Even if
[12:10] Speaker 4: I in a very nice guy?
[12:13] Speaker 7: And you lose your nickname, Chet Potter no more, no
[12:16] Speaker 7: conviction Potter. Three convictions in one day this time, and
[12:20] Speaker 7: you ought to be glad. But something about this loos
[12:24] Speaker 7: who has put himself and two others behind bars, turns
[12:28] Speaker 7: your stomach. There ought to be satisfaction in this for you,
[12:32] Speaker 7: but there is because you remember the three girls of
[12:35] Speaker 7: a manual Liebman, the jeweler. You remember the faces of
[12:39] Speaker 7: his sons, his wife are words you want to get
[12:45] Speaker 7: this louse.
[12:46] Speaker 4: If you can.
[12:48] Speaker 6: Not for parole violation. No, that's not enough.
[12:53] Speaker 14: But how as.
[13:07] Speaker 7: Long as there's crime, as long as there are desperate
[13:10] Speaker 7: men and women who take desperate chances, there'll be a
[13:13] Speaker 7: code of ethics.
[13:16] Speaker 8: You know this well.
[13:17] Speaker 7: Jet Potter twenty nine years on the police run. And
[13:20] Speaker 7: you know the code of ethics is a false one,
[13:23] Speaker 7: a false code of loyalty to self, of loyalty to crime.
[13:27] Speaker 7: And you also know that as long as there is
[13:29] Speaker 7: such a code, there will be betrayals of.
[13:31] Speaker 4: The code, because it's profitable to betray in crime.
[13:36] Speaker 7: And they will always be rats, singers, talkers, Stooley's like
[13:40] Speaker 7: Thomas Carr.
[13:41] Speaker 4: How I know that nor to not.
[13:42] Speaker 12: Dorp this jeweler, mister attorneys, this, how I know for
[13:45] Speaker 12: an absolute, absolute fact.
[13:47] Speaker 7: And as long as there are such men, you hate them.
[13:50] Speaker 7: And as you're doing now, not for the love of
[13:52] Speaker 7: other criminals, but for the hate of this one, you
[13:55] Speaker 7: catch them if you can. So you go to Noonan,
[13:59] Speaker 7: the accused new Nonan, who was serving thirty years for
[14:02] Speaker 7: complicity and second degree murder.
[14:05] Speaker 4: Look at my hand, Look at it.
[14:07] Speaker 12: I stayed here all day yesterday and the day before,
[14:09] Speaker 12: smacking my palm with my other hand.
[14:11] Speaker 6: Well, just what are you telling me him? You didn't
[14:13] Speaker 6: kill Liebman, you didn't shoot the jeweler.
[14:16] Speaker 15: Telling you telling you, I'm telling you nothing. I'm telling
[14:18] Speaker 15: nobody nothing. He ain't fit to die a decent debt, mister,
[14:22] Speaker 15: I don't know what kind of connections you've got, But
[14:24] Speaker 15: get that dog put in here five minutes. Let him
[14:27] Speaker 15: walk in the yard five minutes. It won't be me,
[14:30] Speaker 15: not Mari Needer, who we read it on. Just let
[14:32] Speaker 15: him walk in the yard. That's the only kind of
[14:34] Speaker 15: thing he deserves. I asked you, did you do it?
[14:36] Speaker 15: What do you want? My word against the stoolies? Cops
[14:39] Speaker 15: like stoolies. Don't you know what you get? Mister got
[14:42] Speaker 15: thirty years to live, I.
[14:43] Speaker 6: Got nothing to lose.
[14:44] Speaker 4: What have I got to light here for? I didn't
[14:47] Speaker 4: do it.
[14:48] Speaker 15: If I could get my hands on that dog, maybe
[14:50] Speaker 15: i'd stop hitting myself at least. You know something, mister,
[14:56] Speaker 15: A lot of guys in here would say a lot
[14:58] Speaker 15: of nice things.
[14:59] Speaker 4: About you if you could.
[15:00] Speaker 6: Oh that doesn't interest me.
[15:01] Speaker 4: I know that. But maybe you got your own reasons.
[15:04] Speaker 4: I don't care what the uh, Just get.
[15:07] Speaker 7: A it's a curious thing. But actually, you chet potter
[15:16] Speaker 7: reporter have no real good reasons to get this man.
[15:21] Speaker 7: Because between Car and Noonan at six of one and
[15:23] Speaker 7: half a dozen of another, between Carr and Merrill and
[15:26] Speaker 7: the others sent up choose between a stooley and a gunman,
[15:31] Speaker 7: rationally you can't, and yet you want to, in the bitterest,
[15:35] Speaker 7: most vindictive sense of the word.
[15:38] Speaker 6: You want to.
[15:38] Speaker 4: Get this rap, this stooley, the squealer, this louse.
[15:43] Speaker 6: You've been making the rounds of place.
[15:44] Speaker 4: It's quite a lot, now, haven't you on him?
[15:47] Speaker 6: Who told you? Yeah, what's the difference?
[15:50] Speaker 4: Well, let me tell you if I had it to
[15:51] Speaker 4: give you, and give it to yourself fast to make
[15:53] Speaker 4: his head spin.
[15:54] Speaker 8: And he's as dirty as they come.
[15:56] Speaker 4: And I can tell you this out of private experience.
[15:59] Speaker 4: He don't make the mistake.
[16:00] Speaker 2: Thanks, not his time.
[16:02] Speaker 10: Well we'll see about that anyhow. Thanks, you'll see about that.
[16:11] Speaker 10: No mistakes.
[16:13] Speaker 7: And so you keep at it talking to hard eyed man,
[16:16] Speaker 7: watching young fighters coming into the fight game, young drifters
[16:20] Speaker 7: who hang around wherever a buck can be from motor.
[16:24] Speaker 12: Car for pleasure, for pleasure, mister, Remember that hold up
[16:28] Speaker 12: in the gas station on South Pennsylvania breaking an entry?
[16:30] Speaker 4: What was that?
[16:30] Speaker 6: Two years ago?
[16:31] Speaker 12: In nineteen forty seven, card downs two orders disappeared off
[16:34] Speaker 12: lots here, the Chevy and a pontiaccident. September forty eight,
[16:37] Speaker 12: card down it two drunks were rolled coming out of
[16:39] Speaker 12: the Elite Club January sixth nineteen fifty.
[16:41] Speaker 4: This year card down it. You'll write that out, give
[16:42] Speaker 4: me the paper.
[16:46] Speaker 7: It's good, but it's not good enough. So what had
[16:50] Speaker 7: two years add three years or five? He's got thirteen already. No,
[16:55] Speaker 7: this case warrants more than the difference between thirteen and
[16:58] Speaker 7: eighteen years.
[17:00] Speaker 4: Then unexpectedly mischieff for guide. Don't tell his name, but
[17:04] Speaker 4: he tells you something.
[17:05] Speaker 6: Okay, that depends a car, It still depends. All right.
[17:10] Speaker 4: There's a guy who wants to talk to you.
[17:12] Speaker 9: He's in Western Penitentiary, but he wants to talk to
[17:14] Speaker 9: somebody outside.
[17:16] Speaker 4: His name is Merrill.
[17:17] Speaker 6: The other one car read it on.
[17:18] Speaker 4: That's right.
[17:18] Speaker 7: He's got a real warm story, real warm.
[17:28] Speaker 4: Nona never did it.
[17:29] Speaker 16: Noonan had nothing to do with the killing the leebman
[17:31] Speaker 16: that Jeula got killed by somebody else.
[17:32] Speaker 4: He went to the store about nine thirty. When the
[17:34] Speaker 4: jewel went back to get his gun, he didn't wait.
[17:35] Speaker 4: He shut him eight times. Oh who do you think car?
[17:38] Speaker 4: What car? Why else do you think he's ratting to
[17:40] Speaker 4: cover his own stinking self? Up?
[17:42] Speaker 6: Okay, let's go on from here. All I got so
[17:44] Speaker 6: far is your word Bridge.
[17:45] Speaker 4: I told you didn't I you're on the outside. You
[17:47] Speaker 4: can prove it. You can do it. I told you
[17:49] Speaker 4: it's a fact. Noona never done it.
[17:50] Speaker 7: It was car all away, car your wait, but there's
[17:54] Speaker 7: no more, nothing want to come. This desperate man has
[17:58] Speaker 7: had his desperate say and he's not saying anything further.
[18:02] Speaker 7: And so you take it since you're on the outside,
[18:04] Speaker 7: and maybe you can find the proof. To the assistant
[18:07] Speaker 7: district attorney to Jack Boudreau, Sure.
[18:10] Speaker 8: I like it.
[18:11] Speaker 9: I like it fine. I think it's true. But I
[18:13] Speaker 9: think something else too.
[18:15] Speaker 6: What's that?
[18:15] Speaker 4: Look?
[18:16] Speaker 9: These two guys, Marilyn Noonan got thirty to sixty years
[18:19] Speaker 9: ahead of him based on cars testimony. Why shouldn't they
[18:23] Speaker 9: say he did it, discredit him whether we like him
[18:26] Speaker 9: or not. And I don't this boy. Car is our prize.
[18:29] Speaker 9: It's on this boy's word. Those men are in jail.
[18:32] Speaker 9: Why don't you do what Noonan suggested? Put him in
[18:34] Speaker 9: Western penn for a couple of days. Nah, although it
[18:37] Speaker 9: be left as shreds, we wouldn't get the proof he
[18:38] Speaker 9: killed the jeweler. You wouldn't get anything except a little
[18:41] Speaker 9: screaming by the Reform Party and the legislature for not
[18:44] Speaker 9: protecting our inmates. No, I need this guy. I'm keeping
[18:48] Speaker 9: him in the county jail. He's good for at least
[18:50] Speaker 9: six more sessions songs.
[18:53] Speaker 10: I mean, look, Meryl, try to understand this. I took
[19:02] Speaker 10: what you told me to where it ought to go,
[19:03] Speaker 10: and I got nowhere with it. I need more, more information, more.
[19:06] Speaker 4: Facts, prone I told you. What do you want me
[19:07] Speaker 4: to say? I told you how? What happened?
[19:08] Speaker 10: Paula got is your statement? And brother, you've got a record.
[19:11] Speaker 10: As long as you are high, what do you think
[19:13] Speaker 10: your statement is worth it?
[19:14] Speaker 6: He killed a guy.
[19:15] Speaker 10: As long as you stick to that, he's going to
[19:17] Speaker 10: stay right where he is, laughing at you and maybe
[19:19] Speaker 10: waiting until Noonan burns.
[19:22] Speaker 4: There was two guys on a job.
[19:23] Speaker 16: They took a bus and number nineteen bus to Franklin,
[19:25] Speaker 16: having me about half a block from the jewelry store.
[19:27] Speaker 6: They got out.
[19:28] Speaker 4: It was going on nine fifteen.
[19:29] Speaker 16: The job was set for nine point thirty as a
[19:31] Speaker 16: little one arm placed two stores away from the jewelry store.
[19:33] Speaker 8: They went in.
[19:33] Speaker 16: One of the guys had coffee with a roller, other
[19:35] Speaker 16: had coffee with a cinnamon bun. The waitress sergeant was
[19:37] Speaker 16: a short girl, kind of dumpy, with dark skin and
[19:39] Speaker 16: big blue eyes. Where's the hair in a bun of names?
[19:41] Speaker 16: Francis that kind of stuff you want?
[19:43] Speaker 4: You?
[19:43] Speaker 6: Yep? Go and you're doing fine.
[19:44] Speaker 4: After the coffee, they went in the store.
[19:45] Speaker 16: The counter is on the right side with the cheap stuff,
[19:47] Speaker 16: and it in the second counter in the.
[19:48] Speaker 8: Back of the right angles.
[19:49] Speaker 16: I was empty and stumps in the back of that
[19:51] Speaker 16: with a handle on the right side of the door.
[19:53] Speaker 16: When Leeman twisted the handle downuts when he came up
[19:56] Speaker 16: with a gun in his hand, and Car squeeze the
[19:57] Speaker 16: trigger and he keeps on squeezing it till a guy falls.
[20:00] Speaker 16: And the two of them ran out and got on
[20:01] Speaker 16: the bus. And I'm a nineteen bus going the other way.
[20:05] Speaker 6: Wow, that's quite a statement. That kind of detail could
[20:10] Speaker 6: maybe send a guy to the chair. Why are you
[20:14] Speaker 6: telling me this, Meryl?
[20:15] Speaker 4: What do you mean because I want to get the dog?
[20:17] Speaker 6: No, I don't mean that.
[20:18] Speaker 10: I mean why are you telling me you were the
[20:20] Speaker 10: other guy in the store, the guy with car.
[20:24] Speaker 6: I'll tell you.
[20:26] Speaker 16: First off, I like Noonan, and even though he's going
[20:29] Speaker 16: to stay in here, I don't want Noonon to go
[20:31] Speaker 16: for this.
[20:31] Speaker 4: He didn't do it. And second off, if they was
[20:34] Speaker 4: to try noonan on what car said.
[20:35] Speaker 16: They'd never get a conviction, and they'd sweat car route
[20:37] Speaker 16: and sooner or later that Lau said talk and he'd
[20:39] Speaker 16: say I did it sooner or later.
[20:42] Speaker 4: So I let him get away with saying I did
[20:44] Speaker 4: that one. He and I did it.
[20:47] Speaker 10: Oh, no, crazy walk sort away. It makes good sense.
[20:51] Speaker 10: Now I'll see what I can do.
[21:00] Speaker 7: You're cautious now, because you've got to be.
[21:03] Speaker 8: Because this is betrayal of the betrayer.
[21:06] Speaker 7: Maybe there's another twist coming and it'll shift the whole
[21:09] Speaker 7: thing back and the double cross. I will try to
[21:12] Speaker 7: double cross the man who double crossed him, and car
[21:16] Speaker 7: does that.
[21:17] Speaker 4: I should have heard that one. I should have been
[21:20] Speaker 4: rassed when he said it.
[21:22] Speaker 12: He's a smart kid, that Meryl go a long way
[21:25] Speaker 12: if you don't kill him faced. So we learned that
[21:28] Speaker 12: if you put a story with plenty of details in it,
[21:30] Speaker 12: like like what the guy he ate, where the gun was,
[21:33] Speaker 12: how many shots was fired, et cetera.
[21:37] Speaker 4: These young kids.
[21:38] Speaker 12: They're smart, real smart. You only think about it, You
[21:42] Speaker 12: only think about it. I got so many alibi, such
[21:44] Speaker 12: a lot tisto since took.
[21:51] Speaker 7: But Jack Boudreau, the assistant district attorney doesn't smile, and
[21:56] Speaker 7: Carl laughs, and neither do you. Instead, you bring them
[22:00] Speaker 7: together in the jewelry stall, the two desperate men who
[22:03] Speaker 7: have betrayed each other.
[22:05] Speaker 6: Car and Meryl.
[22:06] Speaker 4: Look, keep them away from me, Will you just keep away?
[22:08] Speaker 9: Nobody's gonna bother your car? Okay, maryn I'll talk. Okay.
[22:12] Speaker 4: Where I stood?
[22:12] Speaker 16: He stood over there, right near the counter, the old
[22:15] Speaker 16: guy Liban, He was over there.
[22:18] Speaker 4: Okay, if I walk over him, okay.
[22:21] Speaker 16: He took out the trade from here right here, slid
[22:25] Speaker 16: it out on the top of the counter, and Car says,
[22:26] Speaker 16: we don't want the cheap stuff, we want the more expensive.
[22:29] Speaker 4: What an imagination, kid?
[22:31] Speaker 16: So the old guy walks back here and says, I
[22:34] Speaker 16: haven't got any, only a few.
[22:36] Speaker 4: He turns around with a gun in his hand.
[22:38] Speaker 16: And you started shooting, Car, and I said stop it,
[22:40] Speaker 16: stop shooting. And you kept on with that look on
[22:42] Speaker 16: your face, pumping at pumping it, pumping it.
[22:44] Speaker 9: Well, Car, the dirty liar, miss take a good look.
[22:51] Speaker 9: If you're will at these men, you ever see them
[22:54] Speaker 9: before together?
[22:56] Speaker 4: I don't think so.
[22:57] Speaker 16: I sat on the first store, right here by the register,
[22:59] Speaker 16: and he was next to me. You ordered a roll
[23:01] Speaker 16: in coffee, and I say what kind of buns you got?
[23:03] Speaker 16: And you said, we got nice cinnamon buns. And I said,
[23:05] Speaker 16: give me one. You had on a pair of coral
[23:08] Speaker 16: earrings that morning, and I said where'd you get those?
[23:10] Speaker 16: I'd like to get my girl a set. And you
[23:12] Speaker 16: said the five and ten. And I said what's your name?
[23:15] Speaker 4: And I said Francy. No, I remember them, the two
[23:18] Speaker 4: of them, both of them. He asked for his coffee light.
[23:21] Speaker 6: What do you say now, car a dirty liar.
[23:27] Speaker 16: We got off the number nineteen bus about a half
[23:30] Speaker 16: of block from here, walked through the middle of the
[23:32] Speaker 16: bridge window and was looking right near a bank here.
[23:35] Speaker 4: Drop the gun in, dredge it and you'll find it.
[23:36] Speaker 8: We well, we'll dredge.
[23:38] Speaker 16: And when you get it, I'll identify it as his gun,
[23:40] Speaker 16: and there'll be six guys I can name wholl identified.
[23:43] Speaker 4: It'll be empty. Every show fire, you're dirty, sto oh
[23:48] Speaker 4: your old car. Listen, it is stooly, cooling, stooly.
[23:55] Speaker 7: And there it is a stool pigeon stool Bernie in
[24:00] Speaker 7: desperate anger at the man he tried to betray. Here
[24:04] Speaker 7: it is the full cycle, the code of the Jungle,
[24:08] Speaker 7: The ethics of desperation.
[24:27] Speaker 6: Wow, we read you that telegram from Chester Potter of
[24:30] Speaker 6: the Pittsburgh Press. The killers in tonight's Big Story were
[24:33] Speaker 6: brought to swift trial. I was the first witness to
[24:36] Speaker 6: testify for the prosecution, and despite defense attorney's arguments and please,
[24:41] Speaker 6: both killers finally pleaded guilty and were quickly convicted. Both
[24:45] Speaker 6: received life sentences at Western Penitentiary.
[24:56] Speaker 17: In order to protect the names of people actually involved
[24:58] Speaker 17: in the knights at that a Big Story, the names
[25:00] Speaker 17: of all characters in the gronversation were changed, with the
[25:03] Speaker 17: exception of the newspaper reporter.
[26:05] Speaker 7: This is the United States Armed Forces Radio Service.
[27:27] Speaker 1: Welcome back. Here's the cast of this week's episode. Mister
[27:33] Speaker 1: Potter was played by Bill Smith, and everyone in the
[27:37] Speaker 1: cast doubled. Not Bob Sloan in this one, but everyone else,
[27:43] Speaker 1: including Bill Smith, who also played the murder victims. The
[27:47] Speaker 1: others in the cast Jones, Shay Larry Haynes, Bill Lipton,
[27:52] Speaker 1: George Petrie, and Joe DeSantis. I did chuckle a bit
[27:58] Speaker 1: when you had Patriot playing Bordeaux, because so many of
[28:04] Speaker 1: us remember him as Markham and his voice had the
[28:08] Speaker 1: same quality, so it was like a more competent version
[28:14] Speaker 1: of Da Markham from Filo Vance. Now we don't have
[28:19] Speaker 1: any real life insights on this case. This is another
[28:23] Speaker 1: episode where the stories behind the Big Story website notes
[28:28] Speaker 1: the original story has been identified summary to be available soon,
[28:33] Speaker 1: but no summary available at the time of this recording.
[28:37] Speaker 1: So I guess commenting on the story as a story,
[28:42] Speaker 1: I think that at its core, the episode is about
[28:48] Speaker 1: and kind of glosses over the sort of conflicting feeling
[28:53] Speaker 1: that many have about the whole issue of informants. It's
[28:58] Speaker 1: not too conflicted for Potter. He says like I hate
[29:02] Speaker 1: the informants, the squealers, the stool pigeons. Nevertheless, they are
[29:10] Speaker 1: an important tool that law enforcement and prosecutors are able
[29:15] Speaker 1: to get even more dangerous people off the street, although
[29:20] Speaker 1: this shows how that can be abused. I did also
[29:23] Speaker 1: think it was a little bit weird for them to
[29:26] Speaker 1: bide him because his cases were going unsolved. Yeah, it
[29:32] Speaker 1: would be one thing if that were his job, but
[29:37] Speaker 1: that is technically the job of the police. I mean,
[29:41] Speaker 1: this isn't like baseball where you start to think, I
[29:43] Speaker 1: wonder if that reporter is jigsy us. No, that's not
[29:48] Speaker 1: our law enforcement works. Not at least how it should work.
[29:52] Speaker 1: All right, Well, now it's time to thank our Patreon
[29:56] Speaker 1: supporter of the day, and I want to thank Robert Patriar,
[30:00] Speaker 1: supporter since March at twenty twenty five, currently supporting the
[30:03] Speaker 1: podcast at the Detective Sergeant level of seven dollars and
[30:07] Speaker 1: fourteen cents or more per month. Thanks so much for
[30:09] Speaker 1: your support, Robert. And that'll do it for today. If
[30:12] Speaker 1: you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your favorite
[30:16] Speaker 1: podcast software, and be sure to rate and review the
[30:19] Speaker 1: podcast wherever you download it from. We'll be back next
[30:25] Speaker 1: Tuesday with another episode of The Big Story, but join
[30:28] Speaker 1: us back here tomorrow for broadways my baitware.
[30:32] Speaker 6: Hey what kept?
[30:34] Speaker 4: Yes? What is it?
[30:35] Speaker 6: Your name?
[30:35] Speaker 17: Floyd Gilmour? What it is?
[30:37] Speaker 4: What?
[30:37] Speaker 17: I'm Danny Clover police. You might have I come in?
[30:40] Speaker 4: Well? What for?
[30:41] Speaker 17: It's about John Dobson. I understand.
[30:42] Speaker 4: What about Joe?
[30:43] Speaker 17: Something's happened to him. Might die. Yeah, you better come
[30:47] Speaker 17: in in here. He might die. He's been poisoned. He's
[30:54] Speaker 17: found a while ago in his car.
[30:56] Speaker 4: Joe.
[30:56] Speaker 17: I just talked to his wife. She said he'd been
[30:58] Speaker 17: with you. Oh John never got here. Oh no matter,
[31:03] Speaker 17: don't you believe me? What was he coming to see you?
[31:05] Speaker 6: Bus?
[31:05] Speaker 17: I ask you something? Don't you believe me? I told
[31:08] Speaker 17: you John never got I asked you something too. He
[31:11] Speaker 17: was coming over to see me. That so what for
[31:13] Speaker 17: to borrow a book? Played chess one? You can take fingerprints, mister.
[31:16] Speaker 17: I'm telling you John wasn't here. It's going to be
[31:18] Speaker 17: pretty tough to prove, mister Gilmore. John Dobson had plenty
[31:20] Speaker 17: of time to be here, be poisoned and leave be
[31:23] Speaker 17: poison You mean me murdered. If John Dobson dies, it'll
[31:27] Speaker 17: be murdered. I'll tell you why he came here. Came here?
[31:32] Speaker 17: He said, he didn't all right? So I got mixed up.
[31:35] Speaker 17: I got a quirk. I get my conjugations mixed when
[31:37] Speaker 17: I'm under mental stress. Why you want to listen to
[31:40] Speaker 17: me or want to call me a liar and arrest me?
[31:43] Speaker 17: Do what you want, mister, go ahead and tell me
[31:46] Speaker 17: your story. I had a friend I wanted John to me.
[31:49] Speaker 6: Mind.
[31:50] Speaker 17: I asked why John doesn't get along with his wife.
[31:53] Speaker 17: She didn't approve of his outside interest. You were going
[31:55] Speaker 17: to introduce him to an outside interest. Well, this girl,
[31:57] Speaker 17: it's this friend of mine is nice kid, same kind
[32:01] Speaker 17: of personalities. John, Huh, that's right. Pretty sure this friend
[32:07] Speaker 17: of mine was well fetching is the word that as
[32:11] Speaker 17: pretty as Edna, not nearly as pretty as Jones' wife.
[32:14] Speaker 17: Why I can never understand that about John? A beautiful
[32:18] Speaker 17: wife like Edna all er Doe. Why he had so
[32:21] Speaker 17: many outside interests? Why you should? Where do I find
[32:24] Speaker 17: this friend of yours? Isabel at the New Howard Hotel.
[32:27] Speaker 17: Ask for Isabelle Martin. Mister alright, I'm sorry, Helly, we
[32:32] Speaker 17: couldn't make it tonight.
[32:33] Speaker 1: Hope you'll be with us then in the meantime. Send
[32:36] Speaker 1: your comments to Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot net,
[32:40] Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives, and check us
[32:44] Speaker 1: out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com, slash Great Detectives from
[32:50] Speaker 1: Boise Altahol. This is your host, Adam Graham, sogn and off.

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