# Broadcom Seeks More Than $60 Billion in Latest AI Debt Deal

An episode of [Bloomberg Intelligence](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/326301337), 21 Aug 2026, 23 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/7f534b8c-9e91-429a-b102-ae3c00090c6d/3e23fea9-37a5-4f06-936a-b4ad0117dd62/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=0ad812bf-fd15-4012-a18c-ae3c00090c76

Watch Paul and Scarlet LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF. Bloomberg Intelligence hosted by Scarlet Fu and Ira Jersey - Mandeep Singh, Global Head of Tech Research for Bloomberg Intelligence, discusses top tech stories. Broadcom is in talks with lenders to raise more than $60 billion in debt for an AI chip financing deal that will benefit Anthropic PBC and other companies. The financing may include a roughly $30 billion junior debt tranche and a senior-secured tranche that could range from about $60 billion to $70 billion. Mandeep looks ahead to Nvidia earnings. -Anthony Hughes, Bloomberg US Equity Capital Markets Reporter, discusses Anthropic’s upcoming IPO. Anthropic PBC expects to match or beat the size of SpaceX’s record-setting initial public offering, according to people familiar with the matter. The company is running the numbers as it prepares to file publicly for its potential mega-IPO as soon as the end of this month, with discussions ongoing and details subject to change. - Poonam Goyal, Senior U.S. E-Commerce and Retail Analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, discusses broader consumer reads. Walmart Inc.’s quarterly sales fell short of expectations, with sales at US stores open at least a year, excluding fuel, rising 2.6% in the second quarter. Target Corp. lifted its full-year guidance after results outpaced estimates in the latest quarter, suggesting the big-box retailer may be moving past a lengthy sales slump. -Randall Williams, Bloomberg Business of Sports Reporter, discusses top business sports stories. Short interest in the Atlanta Braves' class C stock has tripled over the last 12 months to as high as 6.8% of shares that are available to be traded. The Atlanta Falcons are in discussions to sell a 10% stake in the National Football League franchise to KKR & Co.’s Arctos Partners, according to people familiar with the matter. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
[0:10] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am
[0:14] Speaker 1: Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg
[0:17] Speaker 1: Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,
[0:21] Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
[0:24] Speaker 2: I want to bring in man Deep Sing, he is
[0:25] Speaker 2: our global head of tech research here at Bloomberg Intelligence,
[0:28] Speaker 2: to give us kind of a preview into not just
[0:31] Speaker 2: in video results, but Broadcom as well as the semiconductor
[0:34] Speaker 2: socks seem to have lost a little bit of momentum,
[0:38] Speaker 2: you know, over the last couple of weeks.
[0:40] Speaker 3: Man Deep.
[0:40] Speaker 2: When in video reported results a couple of years ago,
[0:43] Speaker 2: it was like a cultural event. People held watch parties
[0:47] Speaker 2: in bars and cheered when the numbers came out. They
[0:49] Speaker 2: were all tuning in too. Bloomberg Television to other financial
[0:52] Speaker 2: news networks, are in video results still the cultural event
[0:56] Speaker 2: that they once were.
[0:58] Speaker 4: Well, I think it has become a lot bigger and
[1:02] Speaker 4: it's hard to produce those kind of beats that they
[1:04] Speaker 4: did a couple of years back. But still it is
[1:08] Speaker 4: one of the biggest tech names in all indices. And look,
[1:13] Speaker 4: I think when it comes to this AI cycle and
[1:16] Speaker 4: Vidia still is at the front end center of the buildout,
[1:20] Speaker 4: and now they are using their balance sheet for you know,
[1:24] Speaker 4: a lot of the buildout to happen, So they're not
[1:27] Speaker 4: just selling the chips, but also using the balance sheet
[1:31] Speaker 4: in a big way to create an ecosystem around what
[1:33] Speaker 4: they're doing.
[1:35] Speaker 5: Mande, let's talk a little bit about Broadcom.
[1:37] Speaker 6: You know, one of the things that we've been concentrating
[1:40] Speaker 6: on is how much issuance has been coming out of
[1:42] Speaker 6: AI issuers into the corporate market. But the deal that
[1:47] Speaker 6: they're talking about financing now with Broadcom is a little
[1:49] Speaker 6: bit different because it's talking about doing debt of different
[1:53] Speaker 6: parts of the capital stack. How do you think about that?
[1:56] Speaker 6: From looking at the balance sheet of these companies and
[1:58] Speaker 6: how much DEBTA they issue and wear, does that matter
[2:02] Speaker 6: for overall valuations for you or thinking about how they
[2:08] Speaker 6: might finance themselves in the future.
[2:11] Speaker 7: It does.
[2:12] Speaker 4: And I think this Broadcom deals specifically the sixty billion
[2:15] Speaker 4: dollars of debt and what Nvidia announced a couple of
[2:19] Speaker 4: weeks back with the six private equity players of around
[2:22] Speaker 4: five hundred billion dollars, that's an interesting structure. The special
[2:26] Speaker 4: purpose vehicle structure that will buy the chips from Broadcom
[2:30] Speaker 4: in this case and then lease it to Entropic. And
[2:34] Speaker 4: the goal here is for you know, Broadcom to sell
[2:38] Speaker 4: its chips, but Entropic doesn't want to pay for all
[2:43] Speaker 4: of that up front so that it doesn't have to
[2:47] Speaker 4: carry that on its balance sheet. I mean, remember, Entropic
[2:51] Speaker 4: is a fast growing lab that is yes, at a
[2:54] Speaker 4: very high trajictory, but it doesn't have the balance sheet
[2:58] Speaker 4: of the hyperscalers terms of paying up for those chips
[3:02] Speaker 4: and setting up their data centers. So in this case,
[3:05] Speaker 4: I think it really helps avoid Andthropic kind of buying
[3:10] Speaker 4: all of that as opposed to leasing, which is what
[3:12] Speaker 4: they would be doing in this case with this special
[3:15] Speaker 4: purpose vehicle structure. And the same thing is with Nvidia.
[3:18] Speaker 4: Nvidia is using its balance sheet along with the private
[3:23] Speaker 4: equity players to set up this special purpose vehicle which
[3:26] Speaker 4: will buy the chips and then lease it out to
[3:30] Speaker 4: users like open ai or other companies that want to
[3:34] Speaker 4: use those chips.
[3:36] Speaker 3: I have a dumb question.
[3:37] Speaker 2: We know that some of the hyperscalers, I believe it
[3:40] Speaker 2: was Alphabet that went negative free cashlow for the first
[3:43] Speaker 2: time this quarter.
[3:44] Speaker 3: Is that right?
[3:45] Speaker 2: Mandep yes, Okay, could in Nvidia ever go negative free
[3:50] Speaker 2: cashlow given the buildout that's required here for all this
[3:53] Speaker 2: AI infrastructure, or because it's a key supplier, it's not
[3:56] Speaker 2: in the same boat.
[3:58] Speaker 4: No, because I remember they are generating you know, like
[4:02] Speaker 4: almost one hundred billion plus and free cash flow every year,
[4:05] Speaker 4: So they've become what Apple has done over the past decade,
[4:09] Speaker 4: you know, and with seventy five percent growth margins. They
[4:12] Speaker 4: will continue to do that in the foreseeable future. And
[4:16] Speaker 4: they're not setting up you know, their own fabs, so
[4:20] Speaker 4: the only investment they have is really in terms of
[4:23] Speaker 4: backstopping a lot of these SPB structures. So I don't imagine,
[4:28] Speaker 4: you know, Nvidia kind of making a big investment that
[4:32] Speaker 4: they will get into negative free platform situation.
[4:36] Speaker 2: Okay, before we let you go, Anthropic were it feels
[4:40] Speaker 2: like we're starting to get more details about its upcoming IPO.
[4:43] Speaker 2: For instance, our reporting here at Bloomberg indicates that Anthropic
[4:47] Speaker 2: will match or beat the size of SpaceX's record setting up.
[4:50] Speaker 2: Stay with us more from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after
[4:53] Speaker 2: this market environment, is this something where if equities turn
[4:58] Speaker 2: south or the bond issue because comes more turbulent the
[5:01] Speaker 2: Anthropic might delay its IPO. How sensitive do you think
[5:04] Speaker 2: Anthropic is to those macro conditions?
[5:07] Speaker 4: Very unlikely given what we have seen with SpaceX. And
[5:10] Speaker 4: remember and Tropic has gone from almost ten billion dollars
[5:14] Speaker 4: in ERR to sixty five billion dollars in a span
[5:17] Speaker 4: of eight months, and they expect to close the year
[5:20] Speaker 4: at around one hundred billion dollars in rare almost at
[5:23] Speaker 4: ten x. When you have a company like this at
[5:26] Speaker 4: this scale, I mean they would not have a problem
[5:30] Speaker 4: going public and raising money and give it how well
[5:33] Speaker 4: SpaceX did you know with eighteen billion dollar underrate and
[5:36] Speaker 4: much lower growth. I mean people would be lining up
[5:39] Speaker 4: for this IPO regardless of the market conditions.
[5:42] Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
[5:49] Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
[5:53] Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
[5:56] Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
[5:59] Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
[6:04] Speaker 2: We were talking ira about Anthropic and this AI company
[6:09] Speaker 2: that's going to come public at some point, and Man
[6:12] Speaker 2: Deepsin doesn't think that market.
[6:13] Speaker 3: Conditions will be a deterrent for it. If something were
[6:16] Speaker 3: to happen.
[6:17] Speaker 6: Yeah, the IPO market, I don't remember it being this
[6:20] Speaker 6: robust for the last fifteen years, really, right, there was
[6:23] Speaker 6: a lot of when interest rate thor at zero, a
[6:25] Speaker 6: lot of companies, you know, either didn't go public or
[6:27] Speaker 6: were issuing debt as a form of financing. But now
[6:30] Speaker 6: it seems like the primary market and the equity world
[6:33] Speaker 6: is open for business and means of financing for a
[6:37] Speaker 6: lot of these names.
[6:37] Speaker 2: All right, Anthony Hughes is with us. He's our senior
[6:39] Speaker 2: equity capital markets reporter. Anthony, what do we know about
[6:42] Speaker 2: the upcoming IPO You've been doing a lot of reporting
[6:45] Speaker 2: on it.
[6:46] Speaker 8: Yeah, Well, obviously, after the experience of SPICEX in jam,
[6:50] Speaker 8: we're well versed in this process. But there has been
[6:53] Speaker 8: certainly a pickup in the number of stories about Aanthropic
[6:55] Speaker 8: in the last few weeks. And I think you could
[6:57] Speaker 8: say that that this pep's a leading indicated that the.
[7:01] Speaker 5: Deal is getting close to fruition.
[7:03] Speaker 8: And you know, I think based on a whole bunch
[7:05] Speaker 8: of different stories, I think you could say that we're
[7:09] Speaker 8: sort of basically expecting Anthropic to file pretty soon here,
[7:12] Speaker 8: potentially as early as late next week. I think would
[7:15] Speaker 8: be possible, and they if they did that, they would
[7:19] Speaker 8: have to wait fifteen days to launch the deal, and
[7:21] Speaker 8: then after about a week or so of a road
[7:23] Speaker 8: show they would go public. And the way the math
[7:25] Speaker 8: of that works out is that Anthropic could potentially be
[7:28] Speaker 8: public in late September.
[7:30] Speaker 5: I mean, I think talking to some.
[7:32] Speaker 8: Sources, I would say that people were talking, Oh, maybe
[7:36] Speaker 8: it's going to be late September, early Octobers. There's always
[7:38] Speaker 8: a potential for some slippage there, but I think, as
[7:41] Speaker 8: we saw with SpaceX, when it's a deal that's going
[7:44] Speaker 8: to create a lot of excitement, good and bad, I
[7:49] Speaker 8: think that Anthropic is going to be something that people
[7:52] Speaker 8: investors going to want to take a good look at.
[7:54] Speaker 8: And I think there's nothing that's really going to stand
[7:56] Speaker 8: the way of it actually going full speed ahead and
[7:58] Speaker 8: not having any delays. So I think you have to
[8:00] Speaker 8: pretty much assume in the situation, and SpaceX was really quick,
[8:03] Speaker 8: but Anthropic will be pretty much on schedule after they
[8:07] Speaker 8: file confidentially on June one. But you know, it's sort
[8:10] Speaker 8: of a two three month review process after you file confidentially.
[8:13] Speaker 8: But you can see here that Anthropics is sort of
[8:16] Speaker 8: basically positioned to go public, you know, right on schedule
[8:19] Speaker 8: after they file confidentially, basically.
[8:21] Speaker 6: Just really quickly. Does it seem like there's going to
[8:23] Speaker 6: be decent demand? I mean, obviously some of these deals
[8:25] Speaker 6: have come with just absolute you know, eye popping demand numbers.
[8:30] Speaker 5: Is the same thing likely for Anthropic Well, I think
[8:33] Speaker 5: it remains to be seen.
[8:34] Speaker 8: But I think the indications I'm getting from people we
[8:37] Speaker 8: talk to in the market is that you know, there
[8:40] Speaker 8: is going to be a lot of interest in this one.
[8:41] Speaker 8: I mean, the reality is of whether you're a believer
[8:43] Speaker 8: in AI or not. The company has a very high
[8:45] Speaker 8: growth rate, and you know, when you ever see company
[8:47] Speaker 8: with a high growth rate, there's going to be a
[8:48] Speaker 8: lot of interest.
[8:50] Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
[8:56] Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast just Live weekdays
[9:01] Speaker 1: at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto
[9:04] Speaker 1: with the Blueberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you
[9:07] Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
[9:11] Speaker 2: We're at the end of a week in which we
[9:13] Speaker 2: got some big earnings from the retail sector, notably Walmart,
[9:17] Speaker 2: Target as well. I'm curious in terms of what this
[9:20] Speaker 2: all means for where things stand for the US consumer
[9:23] Speaker 2: and the road ahead.
[9:25] Speaker 3: Let's bring up Punam Goyel.
[9:26] Speaker 2: She's senior US e Commerce and retail analyst Apploomberg Intelligence.
[9:30] Speaker 2: She joins US now from Princeton, New Jersey. Walmart has
[9:34] Speaker 2: had a rough go. The results were okay, but investors
[9:38] Speaker 2: were not too impressed, and in fact, the stock is
[9:39] Speaker 2: down for a sixth day and seven yesterday it plunged
[9:43] Speaker 2: nine percent. Today it has extended that decline. Are people
[9:47] Speaker 2: rethinking whether Walmart can come out ahead in this higher
[9:51] Speaker 2: interest rate, higher inflation environment?
[9:54] Speaker 7: Sure? So, I think there's two things happening with the
[9:56] Speaker 7: results yesterday. The first is that when you look at
[9:59] Speaker 7: the Walmart results, the underlying health of the consumer remains
[10:03] Speaker 7: strong and remains intact. Because what really caused the stock
[10:07] Speaker 7: to fall is the deflation that we're seeing in pharmacy
[10:10] Speaker 7: sales and that caused the comp to be weaker than expected.
[10:13] Speaker 7: And three Q guidance that remains in place for the
[10:17] Speaker 7: back half of the year, So that is going to
[10:20] Speaker 7: deflate Walmart's comp as we move into the back half.
[10:23] Speaker 7: When we think about the consumer and how the consumer
[10:26] Speaker 7: is shopping, traffic was up in fact, traffic was up
[10:28] Speaker 7: at both Walmart and at Target. So those are encouraging
[10:32] Speaker 7: signs that the consumer is still going out and spending.
[10:35] Speaker 7: And when you look at the e commerce sales at
[10:37] Speaker 7: Walmart over twenty percent, it shows you the strength of
[10:40] Speaker 7: the spending. Now, does the consumer care about value? Absolutely?
[10:44] Speaker 7: Both retailers are slashing prices, They're providing more value and
[10:48] Speaker 7: we think that will continue to draw customers to their
[10:50] Speaker 7: brands over others.
[10:52] Speaker 6: But putting on in the longer term, how have we
[10:54] Speaker 6: seen the tariff picture and a lot of the I
[10:57] Speaker 6: don't want to call it a trade war, but you
[10:59] Speaker 6: know the budding of heads between the President Trump and
[11:04] Speaker 6: the Chinese administration on tariffs. And has that affected either
[11:08] Speaker 6: of these retailers. I know Walmart used to get a
[11:10] Speaker 6: significant amount of its of its stock from China.
[11:16] Speaker 7: Yeah, so when you look at Walmart specifically, more than
[11:19] Speaker 7: half of Walmart's businesses grocer so much of that stuff
[11:23] Speaker 7: is less impacted from what comes from China. But when
[11:25] Speaker 7: you look at the discretionary side of the business apparel,
[11:27] Speaker 7: home toys, etc. There is an impact. And yes, tariffs
[11:32] Speaker 7: have raised costs for retailers like Walmart and Target and
[11:35] Speaker 7: even others across the US because most of what we
[11:38] Speaker 7: consume is brought in from abroad, especially on the discretionary side.
[11:42] Speaker 7: Now that said, I think the tariff situation was worse
[11:45] Speaker 7: off last year when we were talking about one hundred
[11:48] Speaker 7: plus percent tariffs from China. From that standpoint, we've come
[11:51] Speaker 7: down a lot, and I think the new tariffs that
[11:54] Speaker 7: are in discussion are calling for a ten to fifteen
[11:57] Speaker 7: percent increase. Those are manageable, So I think we're at
[12:00] Speaker 7: a place where retailers now know how to mitigate some
[12:04] Speaker 7: of this teriff increase through supplier negotiations, through internal efficiencies,
[12:09] Speaker 7: and yes, they're passing some prices onto the consumer, but
[12:12] Speaker 7: Walmarts and Amazons are trying to hold back for as
[12:15] Speaker 7: long as they can before they can pass those on.
[12:19] Speaker 2: The tariff refunds have been a big theme for company
[12:22] Speaker 2: earnings this last quarter and will probably continue to be.
[12:26] Speaker 2: But I wonder for how much longer because it feels
[12:29] Speaker 2: like it's a one time boost, but you can't count
[12:31] Speaker 2: on it going forward, can you.
[12:34] Speaker 7: Absolutely it is a one time boost for sure, So
[12:36] Speaker 7: it helped in two Q results for many retailers across
[12:39] Speaker 7: the board, including Walmart, I think the boost gets smaller
[12:42] Speaker 7: as we moved through the back half. For most retailers,
[12:45] Speaker 7: the bulk was realized in the second quarter itself. But
[12:49] Speaker 7: I wouldn't expect this refund to continue into twenty twenty seven.
[12:52] Speaker 7: I think we will see some in three Q, but
[12:55] Speaker 7: once they've essentially received or gotten that refund back, that's
[13:01] Speaker 7: the new tariffs in place don't qualify for a refund.
[13:05] Speaker 6: So, but I'm talking to us a little bit about
[13:07] Speaker 6: how consumers have been shifting their patterns of purchases. You know,
[13:12] Speaker 6: when I look at the retail sales report at the
[13:14] Speaker 6: macro level, it often, you know, they have non store retailers,
[13:18] Speaker 6: and it's still relatively small compared to all the times
[13:21] Speaker 6: that I click online to buy something. It seems like
[13:23] Speaker 6: it's you know, a lot more that I seem to
[13:27] Speaker 6: purchase online, but it's only twenty ish percent of total
[13:30] Speaker 6: retail sales comes from online.
[13:33] Speaker 5: You have a really.
[13:34] Speaker 6: Great chart here in your chart pack from about ten
[13:37] Speaker 6: days ago talking about like active users on different apps
[13:42] Speaker 6: and stuff like that to buy. So have these you know,
[13:45] Speaker 6: trend toward online slow down at all or how have
[13:50] Speaker 6: any of those trends been changing?
[13:52] Speaker 4: Sure?
[13:52] Speaker 7: So when you look at those numbers that you're talking
[13:54] Speaker 7: about in the retail sales report. The one thing I'd
[13:56] Speaker 7: keep in mind is when you're looking at the non
[13:58] Speaker 7: store retail line, you're not looking at e commerce sales
[14:01] Speaker 7: from the brick and mortar businesses themselves, So a big
[14:05] Speaker 7: piece of the equation is missing. By our estimate and
[14:08] Speaker 7: our e commerce model, retail online sales is a percent
[14:11] Speaker 7: of total retail. They are closer to over twenty five
[14:14] Speaker 7: percent today, and we think they're edging the thirty one
[14:17] Speaker 7: percent of total retail in the next three to four years.
[14:20] Speaker 7: So the opportunity for retail sales to grow online is
[14:23] Speaker 7: still very vast, and it's still very large. In fact,
[14:26] Speaker 7: when you look at some of the numbers, whether it's
[14:27] Speaker 7: from Amazon or whether it's from even Walmart, you're seeing
[14:31] Speaker 7: plus twenty percent gains in e commerce. So I think
[14:34] Speaker 7: the shift to e commerce is still very much real,
[14:37] Speaker 7: it's happening, it's outpacing store growth. That said, there are
[14:40] Speaker 7: some categories that do better online than others. For example,
[14:44] Speaker 7: food is still underpenetrated online, and while we're seeing it
[14:47] Speaker 7: increase slightly, there's a long runway to go on the
[14:50] Speaker 7: grocery side of the business.
[14:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about Walmart Plus and how much money
[14:53] Speaker 2: Walmart has put into developing its e commerce platform and
[14:56] Speaker 2: how it's paid off tremendously in so far as the
[15:00] Speaker 2: stock return has done much better, and the company is
[15:03] Speaker 2: trying to call itself a bit of a tech.
[15:06] Speaker 3: Company in many ways.
[15:07] Speaker 2: What has Target's efforts been like when it comes to
[15:10] Speaker 2: e commerce?
[15:11] Speaker 7: So Target's also making an e commerce push, and you
[15:14] Speaker 7: know they have Target, they have the shipping with Target
[15:17] Speaker 7: also as part of their membership and their Target circle.
[15:20] Speaker 7: I would say that the two are a little different
[15:22] Speaker 7: when you look at how big they are in e commerce.
[15:24] Speaker 7: Walmart's scaled up quite nicely, right, Walmart's today about one
[15:27] Speaker 7: hundred and fifty billion dollars when you look at it's
[15:30] Speaker 7: e commerce sales. Target's not there yet. And one of
[15:32] Speaker 7: the big reasons that you're seeing such a differentiation between
[15:35] Speaker 7: the two is much of Walmart's scale in e commerce
[15:39] Speaker 7: comes from food and grocery. So when you think about
[15:42] Speaker 7: Walmart Plus, it's I need avocados today, so I'm going
[15:46] Speaker 7: to get them shipped. I need spinach, I need this,
[15:48] Speaker 7: It's easy. Whereas Target, the mix of targets Business is
[15:52] Speaker 7: twenty percent grocery and eighty percent discretionary, and Walmart's fifty
[15:56] Speaker 7: percent grocery are more. So there's a clear differentiator in
[15:59] Speaker 7: how big e those can get based on the verticals
[16:01] Speaker 7: that they compete in.
[16:03] Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
[16:10] Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
[16:14] Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
[16:17] Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
[16:20] Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
[16:25] Speaker 2: So we've got Ira Jersey. He is a noted soccer
[16:29] Speaker 2: I don't want to say fanatic, but fan.
[16:31] Speaker 5: I'm a fanatic. I also own a minor league soccer team.
[16:34] Speaker 2: Okay, so he's an investor as well. Let's bring in
[16:37] Speaker 2: Randall Williams. He's our Bloomberg Business of Sports reporter. A
[16:40] Speaker 2: lot to talk about with you, Randall, and we'll get
[16:42] Speaker 2: to soccer momentarily and Ira, will you know, school you
[16:45] Speaker 2: on all of that. But I wanted to get your
[16:47] Speaker 2: take on what's going on in baseball because there's an
[16:49] Speaker 2: interesting development here with shares of the Atlanta Braves, which
[16:53] Speaker 2: is publicly traded. Short sellers are ratchetally ratcheting up their
[16:58] Speaker 2: bets against the company because they're worried that there's going
[17:02] Speaker 2: to be a lockout for the twenty and twenty seven season.
[17:05] Speaker 3: So we're seeing it play out in financial markets.
[17:08] Speaker 2: Short interest in the Class C stock of Atlanta Braves
[17:10] Speaker 2: has tripled over the last twelve months to almost seven
[17:13] Speaker 2: percent of shares available to be traded.
[17:17] Speaker 3: What's the latest on the possible lockout here for the
[17:20] Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven season.
[17:22] Speaker 9: Well, they're continuing to negotiate, but there's been no real progress.
[17:25] Speaker 9: Otherwise I'd be here every Friday talking about it. The
[17:29] Speaker 9: bottom line is that the MLB wants both a salary
[17:32] Speaker 9: cap floor and a ceiling so that it caps the
[17:36] Speaker 9: spending the teams can have, and the players just want
[17:39] Speaker 9: a floor. It'd be tough to argue that a salary
[17:43] Speaker 9: cap is needed based on the results that are happening
[17:45] Speaker 9: right now with the Dodgers, who have recently been losing
[17:49] Speaker 9: a lot of games. But ultimately, if the Dodgers win,
[17:51] Speaker 9: then that helps. I think the MLB's the MLB owners
[17:54] Speaker 9: is argument, and if they lose then it hurts it.
[18:00] Speaker 6: Staying in Atlanta can we talk a little bit about
[18:02] Speaker 6: the Falcons trying to sell ten percent of of the franchise.
[18:08] Speaker 6: I guess to KKR, you know, we're seeing more and
[18:11] Speaker 6: more investment by non traditional private equity kind of investors
[18:16] Speaker 6: in sports teams. So you know, is this a trend
[18:19] Speaker 6: that you think might accelerate and what are some of
[18:21] Speaker 6: the details that we know of?
[18:23] Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it definitely will accelerate. If you look
[18:26] Speaker 9: at some of the valuations out there, we'll learn more,
[18:28] Speaker 9: I believe in October when the NFL has another league meeting.
[18:31] Speaker 9: But if the reports from CNBC and sport cover are
[18:34] Speaker 9: true that this has valued at over ten billion dollars,
[18:37] Speaker 9: then Arthur Blank essentially just got a billion dollar blank
[18:40] Speaker 9: check to spend anywhere that he'd like. And that's the
[18:44] Speaker 9: reality of having private equity in sports is that they
[18:47] Speaker 9: are blank check writers. And what remains to be seen
[18:50] Speaker 9: is the returns. These are not short term plays. You
[18:53] Speaker 9: hardly ever see private equity firms try to flip their
[18:57] Speaker 9: stakes their long term holders. What is this one billion
[19:00] Speaker 9: dollars going to be and let's say fifteen to twenty years,
[19:04] Speaker 9: Could it be three billion, could it be four billion?
[19:06] Speaker 9: I don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility.
[19:11] Speaker 2: Randall, what is the latest with Mark Walter, the owner
[19:14] Speaker 2: of the LA Dodgers for now, the once owner of
[19:17] Speaker 2: the LA Lakers, and I believe the owner of Chelsea Ira.
[19:21] Speaker 5: Is he still I think he's involved somewhere.
[19:24] Speaker 9: Yeah, Okay, he's getting ready to sell some of his everything.
[19:28] Speaker 9: It feels like the things that are not on the
[19:31] Speaker 9: table right now are the Dodgers and the Cadillac F
[19:34] Speaker 9: one team, as well as the Professional Women's Hockey League.
[19:38] Speaker 9: But of course he executed that sale to Joshua Kushner
[19:42] Speaker 9: and Bob Iger or I won't say last week that
[19:44] Speaker 9: was it feels like forever ago, when it was really
[19:46] Speaker 9: just yesterday. And then you have the other Lakers drama
[19:49] Speaker 9: with the Bus family. But he's selling off some of
[19:52] Speaker 9: everything to try to pay down some of this loan
[19:55] Speaker 9: investigation and things like that that are happening. I expect
[19:58] Speaker 9: the sale of to Bob Eiger and Joshua Kushner to
[20:01] Speaker 9: go through, whether the Bus family drama is settled or not.
[20:06] Speaker 6: So you know, another story out there that you've been
[20:10] Speaker 6: writing about this week is about the Knicks and the
[20:13] Speaker 6: Rangers and their relationship with Madison Square Garden. You know,
[20:16] Speaker 6: I came into Penn Station this morning, so you know,
[20:19] Speaker 6: just right underneath the Madison Square Garden, you know, talk
[20:22] Speaker 6: about what's going on there, and you know, is this
[20:25] Speaker 6: an attempt to you know, get value out of these
[20:28] Speaker 6: franchises or is it something a little bit more myopic?
[20:32] Speaker 9: Yeah, I think you get a proper valuation if you
[20:34] Speaker 9: split the businesses. And that's what it appears that James
[20:36] Speaker 9: Dolan and Madison Square Garden Sports Corporation are trying to do,
[20:39] Speaker 9: which is separate the Knicks business and then separate the
[20:42] Speaker 9: Rangers business to see what the valuations of each are.
[20:46] Speaker 9: And I think if they were to go in the
[20:48] Speaker 9: market that they would sell for astronomical prices. The Knicks
[20:51] Speaker 9: would probably be value. If the Lakers are at twelve
[20:54] Speaker 9: and a half billion dollars, then they didn't even hit
[20:56] Speaker 9: the open market. You really have to start, you know,
[20:58] Speaker 9: at eleven and a half or well for the Knicks,
[21:01] Speaker 9: and you could argue it should be the same price
[21:03] Speaker 9: as the Lakers. The Rangers, I think are one of
[21:06] Speaker 9: the most valuable teams in the NHL, and so they
[21:08] Speaker 9: would fetch a pretty high price too. And This is
[21:10] Speaker 9: majority stake sales that James Doland has not discussed. So
[21:14] Speaker 9: if you were to sell minority interest, and you have
[21:17] Speaker 9: to imagine again, we just talked about the Falcons and
[21:21] Speaker 9: what ten percent of that of that franchise could be
[21:24] Speaker 9: worth a billion dollars. That same thing can be said
[21:26] Speaker 9: for the Knicks and the Rangers. Not for the Rangers
[21:29] Speaker 9: in a billion, but it would still be a lot
[21:31] Speaker 9: of money.
[21:32] Speaker 3: You know, the Rangers haven't done anything since nineteen ninety four, whereas.
[21:34] Speaker 6: The next you know between twos an Islanders fan, don't
[21:37] Speaker 6: go there, okay, okay, Ira question on soccer for mister
[21:40] Speaker 6: Randa Williams. Yeah, So, you know, we talked about KKR
[21:44] Speaker 6: and some of these other equity investments and more and
[21:46] Speaker 6: more Americans instead of investing domestically in in soccer, you know,
[21:51] Speaker 6: they've invested a lot overseas and all over Europe, really right, Italy,
[21:56] Speaker 6: Britain and the like. Do you think the World Cup
[21:59] Speaker 6: is going to bring some of those some of that
[22:01] Speaker 6: interest back in the US, whether it's in United Soccer
[22:03] Speaker 6: leagues or Major League Soccer or otherwise.
[22:06] Speaker 9: I think the MLS has work to do, and they
[22:09] Speaker 9: know that they have a new commissioner coming in who
[22:12] Speaker 9: has you know, done a lot of really good work.
[22:13] Speaker 9: But at the end of the day, the MLS has
[22:15] Speaker 9: to rise into the top five leagues in the world
[22:19] Speaker 9: soccer leagues in the world, really, because if you think
[22:22] Speaker 9: about the American sports culture, the MLS is not in
[22:25] Speaker 9: the top three, and if you think about you know,
[22:27] Speaker 9: European football, it's not in the top three there either, right,
[22:30] Speaker 9: And so from that perspective, you do have a lot
[22:33] Speaker 9: of players from all nationalities coming here to play, but
[22:36] Speaker 9: it's not viewed the same way. And the real question
[22:38] Speaker 9: is like what happens when when Messi retires.
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