# Bloomberg Money: Bond Moves, Social Security and the US Open

An episode of [Bloomberg Intelligence](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/326301337), 22 Aug 2026, 40 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/1b0c2805-9805-43e6-9662-b4ab0110f413/5027f78a-e49c-4422-a40a-b4ad0133551e/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=0ad812bf-fd15-4012-a18c-ae3c00090c76

Bloomberg Money takes the pulse of your financial life, powered by the reporting of our global newsroom. This week's guests include: Rebecca Patterson, Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations Kevin Gordon, Head of Macro Research & Strategy at Schwab Center for Financial Research See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news, Bloomberg Money.
[0:12] Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Money Podcast. I'm Tom Keene with
[0:16] Speaker 2: Scarlet Foo. Join us each week for a smart look
[0:19] Speaker 2: if the forces shaping your financial life. On personal finance,
[0:23] Speaker 2: on retirement and wealth management. We will explore how people
[0:27] Speaker 2: are earning, investing, and building wealth. We are live Fridays
[0:32] Speaker 2: at noon Eastern on Bloomberg Television. Subscribe to the podcast
[0:36] Speaker 2: wherever you listen, and is always on the Bloomberg Terminal
[0:40] Speaker 2: and the Bloomberg Business app. Niki Waller joins us, driving
[0:44] Speaker 2: all of our personal finance coverage. It seems like every
[0:46] Speaker 2: day there's a germane story out there, really to lean into.
[0:50] Speaker 2: David Gera Bloomber this weekend program note Tom Keene will
[0:54] Speaker 2: appear with David Gera on Sunday. I'm coming on Sunday
[0:58] Speaker 2: Jackson Hall previow its two much Oh my God, my
[1:00] Speaker 2: people located about an hour ago and joining us. We
[1:04] Speaker 2: are thrilled to bring you. Sarah Fryar driving so much
[1:07] Speaker 2: of our technology cover. She changed the dialogue on social
[1:11] Speaker 2: media a few years ago. She figured out Instagram before
[1:14] Speaker 2: anybody else. Her book just hugely, hugely successful. If you
[1:18] Speaker 2: wrote your book today, how would it be different?
[1:21] Speaker 3: Well, so much is changing about the way we consume information.
[1:25] Speaker 3: I feel like the biggest change for all of us
[1:28] Speaker 3: is that it's become a more passive experience. That when
[1:32] Speaker 3: we look at our devices and we go on we
[1:34] Speaker 3: may not have an idea of what we want to find,
[1:37] Speaker 3: We're being told what we should find. The critical thinking
[1:40] Speaker 3: is out of those.
[1:41] Speaker 2: Okay, I feel that way every day. But on no
[1:44] Speaker 2: filter AI is our new filter, right it is.
[1:47] Speaker 3: It's making decisions for us on what we should care about,
[1:51] Speaker 3: how we should think about it, and that takes away
[1:54] Speaker 3: the decision making on our parts about what we want
[1:57] Speaker 3: to know why we walk walked into using our phones
[2:00] Speaker 3: in the first place. So I think that that's that's
[2:03] Speaker 3: the moment we're in where we need to really think
[2:07] Speaker 3: about what we're trying to accomplish when we use our technology.
[2:10] Speaker 4: And probably if I.
[2:13] Speaker 2: Tried to ban social media in France.
[2:16] Speaker 5: Can you do that?
[2:16] Speaker 2: Though?
[2:17] Speaker 3: Does that the judge is the court? What are kids
[2:19] Speaker 3: going to do? Social media's bands are going to talk
[2:21] Speaker 3: to their chatbots? They getting outside or they could hang out,
[2:25] Speaker 3: they could hang.
[2:27] Speaker 2: Conversation, make a note? Can I pencil you in for
[2:30] Speaker 2: a conversation Wednesday exactly what it is.
[2:32] Speaker 5: Well, let's stick with this tech team a little bit here,
[2:34] Speaker 5: David Gurra, because technology is coming up as a issue
[2:38] Speaker 5: in the internal elections, data centers comes up a lot,
[2:41] Speaker 5: and it seems like voters hate data centers, whether you're
[2:44] Speaker 5: on the left or the right, and the politicians, the
[2:45] Speaker 5: elected officials are picking up on that as we had
[2:48] Speaker 5: towards them.
[2:48] Speaker 6: Fascinating toe by Michael Hart last week from Bank of America.
[2:51] Speaker 6: He of course coined the Magnificent seven moniker, but he
[2:54] Speaker 6: wrote about the prospects for there being a longer lasting
[2:57] Speaker 6: bubble depending on how the election results in Texas turn out.
[3:00] Speaker 7: So Greg Abbott, of course very pro data centers.
[3:02] Speaker 6: We've seen a lot of them crop up more in
[3:04] Speaker 6: the works in Texas, Michael Hart and his team saying
[3:07] Speaker 6: were he to be elected, that would extend the life
[3:09] Speaker 6: of the cycle that we're in right now. But you're
[3:11] Speaker 6: absolutely right. This is something I think is galbinizing a
[3:13] Speaker 6: lot of people. The prospects of these things being in
[3:16] Speaker 6: their backyards is something that's.
[3:18] Speaker 5: Really agitating, right because these data centers supposedly bring about
[3:21] Speaker 5: higher utility bills, water bills, electricity bills. They're noisy. Maybe
[3:24] Speaker 5: they cause cancer.
[3:25] Speaker 7: Not a lot of jobs after the initial construction of.
[3:27] Speaker 2: It are saying they caused cancer. No.
[3:29] Speaker 5: No, but there's a lot of talk on social media,
[3:31] Speaker 5: and I mean, I don't know if it's true or not,
[3:32] Speaker 5: but this is kind of the conversation. David, just stay
[3:35] Speaker 5: with the midterms for a minute, because there's been some primaries,
[3:38] Speaker 5: and I wonder what the takeaway is because you have
[3:41] Speaker 5: Donald Trump's Republicans versus what feels like increasingly unmored Democrats.
[3:46] Speaker 6: Yeah, although I think that the Democratic Party's ind of
[3:48] Speaker 6: coalescing here, there's a little bit of adject at the
[3:49] Speaker 6: beginning here, is there going to be this split within
[3:51] Speaker 6: the Democratic Party. I think that that narrative has kind
[3:53] Speaker 6: of fallen to the wayside a little bit. But I'm
[3:55] Speaker 6: watching President Trump making his way to South Carolina's a
[3:57] Speaker 6: data campaign for the late Lindsay Graham City, and there's
[4:00] Speaker 6: going to be a parade of other kind of Republican
[4:02] Speaker 6: dignitaries with him. I now think that the folk now,
[4:04] Speaker 6: the split that I'm looking at is within the Republican Party.
[4:06] Speaker 6: Those who have sided with President Trump off at their
[4:09] Speaker 6: own peril not having to make the case for his
[4:11] Speaker 6: policies when.
[4:12] Speaker 7: It seems like there reasons a whole lot there on.
[4:13] Speaker 2: Twenty seconds, I got to get to ms Waller twenty seconds.
[4:16] Speaker 2: Does the far left want America to create wealth?
[4:20] Speaker 6: Yes, I think, but once that wealth's be more widely shared.
[4:23] Speaker 6: And so I think, Look, the economy is doing relatively
[4:25] Speaker 6: well by many measures, but the way that it's distributed
[4:27] Speaker 6: something that I think that they care.
[4:28] Speaker 2: Kay, and we're going back to normal Bloomberg coverage that
[4:31] Speaker 2: the thirty year bond is coming up. My god, Nikki,
[4:33] Speaker 2: what does this new vest in yield mean for our
[4:37] Speaker 2: personal finance? There's got to be a seismic shift this week.
[4:41] Speaker 8: Well, you know, I think bonds used to be pretty
[4:44] Speaker 8: drama free, and then a game board is changing for
[4:47] Speaker 8: investors right now. I think one way to simplify and
[4:50] Speaker 8: think about it is, if you need money, it is
[4:52] Speaker 8: going to be more expensive to get that money. If
[4:55] Speaker 8: you have money, there are a lot more interesting places
[4:57] Speaker 8: you might be able to put it.
[4:59] Speaker 5: Oh, that's a really good way of putting in. What
[5:00] Speaker 5: I find fascinating too, is that it's one thing for
[5:02] Speaker 5: Bloomberg to fixate on the Treasury marketing. But you have
[5:07] Speaker 5: CNN and you have other mainstream publications now featuring the
[5:10] Speaker 5: thirty year bond yield on their screens. Right now, people
[5:14] Speaker 5: are talking about it in a way that feels like
[5:16] Speaker 5: it's alarming. I don't know if that's necessarily the case,
[5:18] Speaker 5: given that the thirty year bond year yield has been
[5:21] Speaker 5: at two thousand and seven levels for a couple of
[5:23] Speaker 5: weeks now, but it's entering the conversation in a new way.
[5:26] Speaker 4: That's absolutely right.
[5:26] Speaker 8: This week, it feels like something has boiled over, and
[5:29] Speaker 8: even if things do calm down next week, I think
[5:32] Speaker 8: we're in for a longer period of uncertainty, which is
[5:36] Speaker 8: the theme we come to over and over again with politics,
[5:39] Speaker 8: with tech and everything.
[5:41] Speaker 2: One of our introns just brought this, so let's bring
[5:43] Speaker 2: it up right now. This is either the expense at
[5:46] Speaker 2: the girl household in camp this summer or the US
[5:50] Speaker 2: that pluck did you get out the thirty nine trillion
[5:52] Speaker 2: point nine day period.
[5:54] Speaker 6: If we're not there yet, that the compounding facet of
[5:57] Speaker 6: having so many camp payments to make is getting us
[5:59] Speaker 6: somewhere near.
[6:00] Speaker 7: Although it looks better and red, I think when I
[6:01] Speaker 7: look at it.
[6:01] Speaker 2: We've been through this fourteen times, the three of you
[6:04] Speaker 2: as well. The fact is, fiscal policy doesn't matter in
[6:07] Speaker 2: the voting booth, does it.
[6:08] Speaker 6: I think that people are getting more and more concerned
[6:10] Speaker 6: about it. I think that the follow on is the
[6:12] Speaker 6: thing that we haven't seen yet. So we've had Republicans
[6:14] Speaker 6: Democrats talk about the fiscal situation, as you say, for
[6:16] Speaker 6: many cycles here, but there's no coherent plan for what
[6:19] Speaker 6: to do with it. I think that's what we're seeing,
[6:21] Speaker 6: kind of manifest How are you going to.
[6:22] Speaker 2: Post this next week with your team of four hundred.
[6:29] Speaker 5: He's out.
[6:30] Speaker 8: We'll just be there scriveting me and you Tom. But
[6:34] Speaker 8: you know, I think to your point, one of the
[6:35] Speaker 8: interesting things is that the Trump administration is Tate with Lake,
[6:38] Speaker 8: with best AND's moves, is taking steps to try to
[6:41] Speaker 8: bring down costs for people, whether it's borrowing costs for mortgages,
[6:44] Speaker 8: and the market is pushing them right back.
[6:47] Speaker 2: I got to get this in. We celebrate Sarah Fryar
[6:50] Speaker 2: coming back to the East Coast as well. Are you
[6:53] Speaker 2: the last person leaving California? This billionaires? I come on,
[6:57] Speaker 2: you know all these fancy people, are they really all
[6:59] Speaker 2: going to go.
[7:00] Speaker 3: You know, the core of the tech industry is still there.
[7:03] Speaker 3: See a lot of people try to make Miami happen,
[7:06] Speaker 3: try to make you know, Austin happen. They all they
[7:08] Speaker 3: all come back at some point to California. The reason
[7:12] Speaker 3: I'm here, though, is because you know, sort of a
[7:15] Speaker 3: kind to what you all are talking about, the tech
[7:18] Speaker 3: story and how it's intertwined with the economy, how it's
[7:21] Speaker 3: intertwined with politics and the future of the whole system.
[7:28] Speaker 3: A lot of it has to be a conversation among
[7:30] Speaker 3: all of us here at Bloomberg, and it's really I
[7:34] Speaker 3: think part of why people are so against data centers
[7:38] Speaker 3: is because they're seeing the stock market and they're seeing
[7:40] Speaker 3: the wealth creation and they're not feeling it. They're they're
[7:44] Speaker 3: seeing data centers as the symbol of how tech companies
[7:48] Speaker 3: are spending billions and how it's not coming into their
[7:51] Speaker 3: pocket instead it's driving their bills up. It's it's you know,
[7:55] Speaker 3: even just like memory chips, for instance, are are harder
[7:58] Speaker 3: to get, so their phones are more expensive. This this
[8:00] Speaker 3: is all playing into the anxiety we're seeing around the midterms.
[8:05] Speaker 2: This has been wonderful, NICKI thank you so much greatly appreciated.
[8:08] Speaker 2: Sarah thrilled that you're back where there's mister garralse you
[8:11] Speaker 2: Sunday hours tonight with Tony Crescenzo. There will be bagels
[8:16] Speaker 2: to Global wall Street Anthony Cassenzi on Bloomberg this weekend
[8:20] Speaker 2: is really really something. He's truly a giant of the
[8:23] Speaker 2: fixed income market. And I believe Nicky Waller will tender.
[8:27] Speaker 2: You know, there's you know, we're deal.
[8:29] Speaker 7: We're gonna talk to her people after this.
[8:30] Speaker 2: We'll see as well coming up. This is an important conversation.
[8:34] Speaker 2: Rebecca Patterson for years driving wealth management at Best mar Trost.
[8:39] Speaker 2: Of course you know her from Bridgewater. Rebecca Patterson on
[8:42] Speaker 2: the trum oil in the markets and your long term
[8:45] Speaker 2: plan from New York City. Bloomberg Money.
[8:50] Speaker 5: That was a good.
[8:51] Speaker 2: Surprise, good Friday afternoon, Bloomberg Money, Scarlet Fu and time.
[9:08] Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being with us. Let's get
[9:11] Speaker 2: right to at Kevin Gordon with us later. But now,
[9:13] Speaker 2: Rebecca Patterson, the fancy title writing daily, great work with
[9:17] Speaker 2: Sebastian Melodies, senior fellow it accounts on foreign relations. I
[9:21] Speaker 2: don't care because it's Bloomberg Money. Wonderful to have you
[9:24] Speaker 2: here long ago and far away at Bessemer Trust. I
[9:27] Speaker 2: came in and I said, wonderful pontification to wealth management people.
[9:31] Speaker 2: If you were at Bessemer Trust today, how do you
[9:34] Speaker 2: handle this bond market?
[9:37] Speaker 1: You know I would have been nervous about bonds for
[9:40] Speaker 1: some time. I wrote an op ed in The New
[9:43] Speaker 1: York Times in January last year expressing some concern about
[9:47] Speaker 1: longer term bonds because the policies we were good at getting.
[9:50] Speaker 1: We're going to increase the deficit, increase growth, which is
[9:53] Speaker 1: a good thing, but push up inflation there for a
[9:56] Speaker 1: likely higher rate. So this isn't a surprise that's happening.
[10:00] Speaker 1: I think the surprise this week is now we have
[10:02] Speaker 1: volatility in those rates thanks.
[10:04] Speaker 4: To the Treasury.
[10:05] Speaker 1: So I would prefer to be in cash or short
[10:07] Speaker 1: term fixed income and other types of diversifiers.
[10:10] Speaker 4: Dare I say it? Gold?
[10:12] Speaker 2: Here's the canard of the business folks. Bring up the
[10:15] Speaker 2: chart please. This is for Rebecca Patterson. Wall Street and
[10:19] Speaker 2: Rebecca Patterson talk differently than mere mortals. If you own
[10:23] Speaker 2: the TLTs out twenty years plus, like a lot of
[10:26] Speaker 2: retail does, picking up that yield, it's priced down from COVID.
[10:31] Speaker 2: It has been a crater of yield up, price down
[10:35] Speaker 2: in your world? What's long term seven year duration? Not
[10:39] Speaker 2: twenty year when you're looking at retirement and wealth management.
[10:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think even shorter duration money markets right now.
[10:47] Speaker 1: So the yield pickup you have by owning a longer
[10:50] Speaker 1: term bond right now, yes, you get something for it,
[10:52] Speaker 1: but is it worth the risk, and right now I
[10:55] Speaker 1: haven't thought it is. What I would say, though, is
[10:59] Speaker 1: for retail investors, if you lose money when rates going up,
[11:02] Speaker 1: it does depend on how fast the rates go up,
[11:05] Speaker 1: and it depends what the yield is. So if I'm
[11:08] Speaker 1: getting a high yield, say the thirty year it's five
[11:10] Speaker 1: point two four percent, and the yields continue higher but
[11:13] Speaker 1: very slowly, I lose money as the price is fall
[11:17] Speaker 1: in the yields go up, but I'm making money on
[11:19] Speaker 1: that coupon, So it depends how quickly this move happens.
[11:23] Speaker 2: They get the envelope at home, I'm sorry to get
[11:26] Speaker 2: the envelope at home and one hundred thousand has become
[11:28] Speaker 2: ninety seven thousand, thirty eight dollars, and then for your
[11:32] Speaker 2: wealth management the next month, it's ninety five thousand, eight
[11:35] Speaker 2: hundred wall Street rationalizes in the Bloomberg money world, folks,
[11:39] Speaker 2: you're looking to yield up price down right.
[11:41] Speaker 5: The rate of change is what you're saying. You're correct,
[11:43] Speaker 5: it's not correct. But if we look at the volatility
[11:46] Speaker 5: in the bomb market, and you can see it certainly
[11:48] Speaker 5: this week, yes, does it feel like the usbl market
[11:50] Speaker 5: is increasingly looking like aped developing market as opposed to
[11:54] Speaker 5: a developed.
[11:54] Speaker 4: Market a little bit?
[11:56] Speaker 5: Yes. If I wanted this kind of volatility, I'd go
[11:58] Speaker 5: and invest in another countries bonds, not the US.
[12:01] Speaker 1: Well, the irony today is that a number of emerging
[12:04] Speaker 1: market financial markets have done better than the US market
[12:08] Speaker 1: in stocks and bonds this year. And some of that
[12:11] Speaker 1: is fundamentals and some of it is just point in
[12:14] Speaker 1: time and what those economies are doing. If I'm Korea
[12:16] Speaker 1: or Taiwan and I'm doing a lot of ai that's
[12:19] Speaker 1: obviously helped me. If I'm another country and I'm doing
[12:22] Speaker 1: a lot of commodity exports, maybe that would have helped me.
[12:25] Speaker 4: But I hear you.
[12:25] Speaker 1: The point is that with our debt to GDP in
[12:29] Speaker 1: the United States running around one hundred percent, employees to
[12:32] Speaker 1: go towards one hundred and twenty over the next decade,
[12:35] Speaker 1: and questions around who's buying the bonds and what yield
[12:38] Speaker 1: they need to buy them.
[12:40] Speaker 4: It makes things a little more tenuous.
[12:42] Speaker 5: You say, we need to watch the US dollar because
[12:44] Speaker 5: it'll suffer if the US Treasury under Scott that's it
[12:47] Speaker 5: and can bring down yields. If you're an American living abroad,
[12:50] Speaker 5: you certainly feel the effects of the dollar's strength and
[12:52] Speaker 5: weaknesses all the sways. Yep, And I feel affected if
[12:55] Speaker 5: I'm traveling abroad, but not if I'm sitting here in
[12:58] Speaker 5: New York for weeks on end.
[12:59] Speaker 1: Right, If you're an American, you live in dollars, you
[13:04] Speaker 1: get paid in dollars, you spend dollars. The only way
[13:07] Speaker 1: you're going to feel that exchange rate movement is what
[13:09] Speaker 1: it does to inflation and what it does to financial conditions.
[13:13] Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is when you have
[13:15] Speaker 1: a weeker dollar. Basically, it tends to push up inflation
[13:19] Speaker 1: in the US, and at the margin that might make
[13:22] Speaker 1: it more likely that the Federal Reserve thinks it needs.
[13:24] Speaker 4: To raise interest rates.
[13:27] Speaker 1: H I'm more in kind of the range camp right now,
[13:33] Speaker 1: So I don't think the dollar's about to fall off
[13:35] Speaker 1: a cliff.
[13:35] Speaker 2: Just brought up the girl Camp bill for this summer.
[13:37] Speaker 2: Let's bring it up again. I was a mistake as
[13:39] Speaker 2: a Bloomberg money correction. The folks, this is the US
[13:42] Speaker 2: debt clock. Yeah, hopping out of forty trillion dollars. You
[13:45] Speaker 2: and I were weaned on Paul Sungas, Sam Nunn, Pete
[13:49] Speaker 2: Peterson and the rest. Every year, cry wolf, cry wolf,
[13:53] Speaker 2: cry wolf. In my retirement, in my wealth management study,
[13:57] Speaker 2: is a time to stop cry wolf.
[14:00] Speaker 1: There's two things that are different today. One is simply
[14:03] Speaker 1: the size of the debt and the fact that well,
[14:06] Speaker 1: so that's one thing. The second thing is that neither
[14:09] Speaker 1: the public nor the politicians are willing to turn the
[14:12] Speaker 1: corner on fiscal policy. Americans since two thousand and eight
[14:16] Speaker 1: have been conditioned to think the government's going to come
[14:18] Speaker 1: to their rescue anytime there's a problem, and politicians trying
[14:22] Speaker 1: to hold onto their seats. Fiscal austerity doesn't get you reelected,
[14:26] Speaker 1: and so it's just been the self fulfilling thing where
[14:29] Speaker 1: every government, both parties, keep increasing that deficit, which pushes
[14:33] Speaker 1: up that debt clock.
[14:35] Speaker 4: So something has to give.
[14:37] Speaker 1: We need politicians to be honest with voters and say
[14:39] Speaker 1: we need to have fiscal austerity, and we need voters
[14:42] Speaker 1: to accept that to have a stronger financial market and economy.
[14:46] Speaker 4: There is a price.
[14:47] Speaker 5: So when you say something has to give, what does
[14:49] Speaker 5: that look like and how will people feel it?
[14:52] Speaker 1: Well, if it is fiscal austerity, more spending cuts which
[14:55] Speaker 1: are harder to do, or tax hikes, and we'll see
[14:59] Speaker 1: who pays those t hikes, that's a question mark. If
[15:02] Speaker 1: it's not that, and politically that's not likely anytime soon,
[15:06] Speaker 1: then we have to get something else happening. And my fear,
[15:09] Speaker 1: and I'm not calling for a crisis, but my fear
[15:12] Speaker 1: is this happens in an ugly way that forces the austerity,
[15:16] Speaker 1: and that could come from a few things.
[15:17] Speaker 4: It could come here at home.
[15:19] Speaker 1: Let's say there's a catalyst that pulls down sentiment towards
[15:22] Speaker 1: artificial intelligence AI stocks. It's not just an AI stock
[15:26] Speaker 1: trade anymore, it's AI stocks, AI debt. Everything comes to stock market,
[15:30] Speaker 1: the entire corporate bottom and globally now right, AI is
[15:33] Speaker 1: in a lot of different markets. So that's one risk.
[15:36] Speaker 1: I think a second risk is if inflation sticky, the
[15:38] Speaker 1: FED has to raise rates higher than expected.
[15:41] Speaker 4: That could be another catalyst. And don't forget overseas.
[15:44] Speaker 1: You might be spending and living in dollars, but if
[15:46] Speaker 1: France has a debt crisis, we will have contagion here
[15:50] Speaker 1: in the US.
[15:51] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I didn't research just the interns of all
[15:53] Speaker 2: going back to school? Are you on to task force?
[15:56] Speaker 4: Are you one of the FED task force?
[15:58] Speaker 9: No?
[15:59] Speaker 4: One of Warsh's task forces.
[16:01] Speaker 2: Luck to you, you're not at What would you do
[16:03] Speaker 2: on a retirement task force? Right now?
[16:04] Speaker 4: What would be goal retirement task?
[16:06] Speaker 2: For Social Security tax force?
[16:08] Speaker 4: For Social Security task force?
[16:10] Speaker 1: We have to raise the age where you start getting
[16:14] Speaker 1: benefits from social Security?
[16:15] Speaker 5: People live one.
[16:16] Speaker 2: Hundred percent agree? We also the rich people have to put.
[16:18] Speaker 1: In more, and we could do some means testing. I
[16:22] Speaker 1: don't mind contributing to social Security. I shouldn't get any
[16:25] Speaker 1: I'll live fine without it. I would rather have my
[16:28] Speaker 1: money going to help people who need it more, and
[16:31] Speaker 1: therefore we don't have a financial crisis.
[16:33] Speaker 2: That's sure, that's a popular opinion.
[16:34] Speaker 5: I want to get a sense of your personal investment approach.
[16:37] Speaker 5: How do you do things? Are you kind of a
[16:39] Speaker 5: set it and forget it person? Or are you constantly
[16:41] Speaker 5: making changes based on conditions.
[16:44] Speaker 1: I'm not a trader, and when I say that, I
[16:46] Speaker 1: mean people who like to figure out what to buy
[16:48] Speaker 1: and sell daily or even hourly. I'm an investor, so
[16:51] Speaker 1: I'm saying, what are my retirement goals, what money do
[16:55] Speaker 1: I need along the way for kids' weddings, down payments
[16:58] Speaker 1: for homes, et cetera, and then figuring out my assid allocation.
[17:02] Speaker 1: Partly because I've been living in this world for thirty years,
[17:05] Speaker 1: I'm comfortable making some tactical tilts in my portfolio along
[17:08] Speaker 1: the way, whether I'm leaning a little harder int equities
[17:11] Speaker 1: or out, or towards a certain country or a sector.
[17:15] Speaker 1: But I'd say those are at the margin because I
[17:16] Speaker 1: think for most people, they get emotional. They think they
[17:22] Speaker 1: need to time it. Oh my gosh, the market's frothy,
[17:24] Speaker 1: there's a bubble. I want to get out. It's really
[17:27] Speaker 1: unusual that people can time getting out and then back in. Well,
[17:30] Speaker 1: so you'll time it twice. You're better off. Just figure
[17:33] Speaker 1: out what makes sense for you personally and then let
[17:35] Speaker 1: it go.
[17:35] Speaker 5: Is there anything that's off limits to you when you
[17:37] Speaker 5: look at all the possible investments out there?
[17:40] Speaker 1: I am agnostic about crypto. If other people want to
[17:43] Speaker 1: trade it, God bless it's not for me. I don't
[17:47] Speaker 1: like that you can't determine a fair value. I don't
[17:50] Speaker 1: like that there are so many idiosyncratic drivers around it. However,
[17:54] Speaker 1: I will fully admit if you bought it in twenty
[17:56] Speaker 1: twelve and held it to today, you'd be extremely happy.
[18:00] Speaker 5: Rebecca, such a pleasure to have you here. Thank you
[18:02] Speaker 5: so much. Thanks, Rebecca Patterson, Senior Fellow at the Council
[18:05] Speaker 5: on Form our Relations formerly with Bessemer Trust.
[18:08] Speaker 4: Coming up on Bloomberg Money.
[18:09] Speaker 5: We continue our conversation with Kevin Gordon, head of macro
[18:13] Speaker 5: Research and Strategy at Charles Schwab, to discuss how rising
[18:16] Speaker 5: oil prices and bond market swings are hitting your savings.
[18:20] Speaker 5: This is Bloomberg Money Investments Vacation, Gordon's trooper. Bloomberg Money
[18:32] Speaker 5: is your new destination for personal finance. It's a cross
[18:35] Speaker 5: platform effort that extends beyond your television screen, including our
[18:38] Speaker 5: new digital hub at Bloomberg dot Com, Slash Money and
[18:41] Speaker 5: tom This story really got my attention. You know about
[18:44] Speaker 5: gap years. Yes, well, you know we both have firsthand
[18:47] Speaker 5: experience with this. But for a certain cohort of families,
[18:50] Speaker 5: there's a ninety five thousand dollars gap year part people.
[18:53] Speaker 5: It is a rich people story and include bungee jumping,
[18:57] Speaker 5: your Victoria falls in Southern Africa, visiting a Brazil bank,
[19:00] Speaker 5: coding an app Bloomberg. Sarah Foster wrote about this for
[19:04] Speaker 5: The Money Team and she joins us, now, this is
[19:06] Speaker 5: more than just getting some experience and you know, maturing
[19:09] Speaker 5: into your college experience, isn't it.
[19:12] Speaker 4: It used to be this.
[19:12] Speaker 9: Perception that gap years were kind of this like lase
[19:15] Speaker 9: a fair, I'm going to follow around fish maybe generation
[19:19] Speaker 9: before that, the grateful Dead.
[19:20] Speaker 4: Maybe I'll work on a ranch.
[19:22] Speaker 9: Now it seems like parents are really using these highly facilitated,
[19:26] Speaker 9: tightly scheduled gap years to make sure they're exposing their
[19:31] Speaker 9: children to people that they might be able to get
[19:33] Speaker 9: help from when they start to graduate and look for
[19:36] Speaker 9: a job. I heard from some parents here who actually
[19:40] Speaker 9: they kind of attribute the value of someone found an
[19:43] Speaker 9: internship through a connection that he made while meeting someone
[19:46] Speaker 9: on one of these gap year programs. So it's like
[19:48] Speaker 9: those qualitative, kind of career focused, you know, goals that
[19:53] Speaker 9: it's a lot of.
[19:53] Speaker 5: People have your resume before you even start college so
[19:56] Speaker 5: that when you get to college, you can focus on
[19:58] Speaker 5: the extracurricular activities that gets you the work to get
[20:00] Speaker 5: the job. It's true.
[20:01] Speaker 9: I was also speaking with another gap year student who
[20:05] Speaker 9: did a semester long program and then he paired it
[20:08] Speaker 9: with an internship that pushed back his graduation date. He
[20:12] Speaker 9: was saying that he was doing research for an MBA
[20:14] Speaker 9: program with his mom, and notice that a lot of
[20:17] Speaker 9: people who were in this NBA program that he wanted
[20:20] Speaker 9: to apply for, they did the same kind of gap
[20:23] Speaker 9: year program. So he was kind of also using it
[20:25] Speaker 9: as a way to get into what people.
[20:26] Speaker 2: Are such strivers. I mean, I know Kevin Gordon and Schwab,
[20:30] Speaker 2: he was a lifeguard when he was at Pepperdine. Making
[20:33] Speaker 2: psych six bucks an hour falls is.
[20:36] Speaker 5: Twenty twenty six is a different story. Of course, you
[20:38] Speaker 5: have to be able to afford this, and it's also
[20:39] Speaker 5: very competitive as well. Another story that you wrote about
[20:42] Speaker 5: which really got our attention is about millennials and how
[20:45] Speaker 5: they're feeling pretty good. There was a survey that found
[20:47] Speaker 5: that their financial situation has improved from five years ago,
[20:50] Speaker 5: more than say for Gen X or the Baby boomers.
[20:53] Speaker 9: Nearly half of them feel like they've gotten better, which
[20:56] Speaker 9: is a greater share of them than gen xers and
[20:58] Speaker 9: baby boomers. I was speaking with the researcher and we
[21:01] Speaker 9: kind of came to this conclusion that millennials might actually
[21:04] Speaker 9: just be late bloomers. It's right around the time when
[21:07] Speaker 9: they start to turn thirty, which I turned thirty this year.
[21:10] Speaker 9: The youngest millennials are hitting that new decade. Their incomes,
[21:14] Speaker 9: you know, are finally hitting those peak years there. Maybe
[21:17] Speaker 9: they're in dual income household soon they're finally able to
[21:20] Speaker 9: kind of catch.
[21:21] Speaker 2: Up on those goals.
[21:22] Speaker 9: And you see that their net worth is pulling away
[21:24] Speaker 9: from you know, baby boomers at a faster pace.
[21:26] Speaker 5: But aren't their debt levels also rising faster than others?
[21:30] Speaker 5: I mean, they just have more debt in general too.
[21:32] Speaker 9: That's the other side of the story here. So even
[21:34] Speaker 9: though these younger generations might have more equity exposure, which
[21:38] Speaker 9: is helping them pull away at a faster pace, they
[21:40] Speaker 9: also have more consumer debt. And we excluded mortgage rate
[21:44] Speaker 9: debt when we were mortgages debt when we were looking
[21:46] Speaker 9: at this, So when we say consumer debt, we're including
[21:49] Speaker 9: things like credit card true loans.
[21:51] Speaker 5: The truth, I think student loans is a big, big one,
[21:54] Speaker 5: especially given how much tuition has increased. Sarah, Thank you
[21:57] Speaker 5: so much, Sarah Foster, with some incredible stories she is.
[22:01] Speaker 2: It's like she's that good. Sarah Foster, thank you so much.
[22:05] Speaker 2: It's a perfect segurity into Kevin Gordon's had a macro
[22:08] Speaker 2: research and strategy at Cherish Schwab And you know, I
[22:11] Speaker 2: look at this and as far as I can see,
[22:13] Speaker 2: with personal finance in distant retirement, the younger crew, which
[22:18] Speaker 2: you're arguably the voice on Wall Street, the younger crew
[22:21] Speaker 2: takes us a lot more seriously than I did when
[22:24] Speaker 2: I was thirty at the Wobbly Barn way up in Vermont.
[22:27] Speaker 10: Yes, it is a definitive shift.
[22:29] Speaker 11: I thought that she was fascinating because, you know, I
[22:32] Speaker 11: said at such an interesting next to sort of talking
[22:34] Speaker 11: about me being the younger voice on this. You know,
[22:36] Speaker 11: all day I'm in the Wall Street world for work,
[22:39] Speaker 11: but then I live in the gen Z world. I'm custy,
[22:42] Speaker 11: but I'm technically gen Z. Still I'm on the I'm
[22:44] Speaker 11: on the edge of its younger millennial.
[22:47] Speaker 2: I'm exactly, I'm custy.
[22:49] Speaker 11: But you know, this whole, this whole idea around, you know,
[22:52] Speaker 11: and you see it Survey after survey, anecdote after anecdote.
[22:54] Speaker 11: But younger people today, especially in gen Z, they just
[22:57] Speaker 11: don't really believe in that classic American dream of a
[22:59] Speaker 11: how being a wealth generator. So they have shifted a
[23:02] Speaker 11: lot to the stock market. But that has really important
[23:05] Speaker 11: implications for how they think about saving. And now they
[23:07] Speaker 11: think about building wealth of her time, not you know,
[23:09] Speaker 11: better or worse than what it was before. It's just
[23:11] Speaker 11: a different environment than what we've had.
[23:14] Speaker 5: They think about income generation through these like fancy fancy
[23:17] Speaker 5: ets that costs a lot of money. But also I
[23:22] Speaker 5: guess when it works, it works, but it feels like
[23:24] Speaker 5: there's a lot of risk taking involved that they may
[23:26] Speaker 5: not be aware of.
[23:27] Speaker 11: Yes, there has been a you know, a blurring of
[23:30] Speaker 11: this sort of investing versus gambling kind of mindset over
[23:33] Speaker 11: the past several years. I would sort of date it
[23:36] Speaker 11: back I guess to twenty twenty one when a lot
[23:37] Speaker 11: of people were treating that memes stock craze new way
[23:41] Speaker 11: to wealth.
[23:41] Speaker 10: But obviously that.
[23:42] Speaker 2: Its I want to interrupt you. This is too important.
[23:44] Speaker 2: Your colleague Lizione Saunders is leading the way on this. Yes,
[23:48] Speaker 2: she is the number one voice in the racket over
[23:51] Speaker 2: gambling and what it means for kids in your million
[23:53] Speaker 2: when you're a hipster and you're out on the weekend
[23:55] Speaker 2: and all that. How pervasive is the gambling.
[23:58] Speaker 10: Oh, it's incredibly pervasive.
[24:00] Speaker 11: I mean, because you know, it's all in front of
[24:02] Speaker 11: us all the time. You know that we all see
[24:04] Speaker 11: the stats that's on screen time and how much people
[24:06] Speaker 11: are buried in their phones and it gets you know,
[24:08] Speaker 11: larger and larger percentage wise.
[24:10] Speaker 2: When they're losing money. Is anybody making money?
[24:13] Speaker 10: I don't know if well.
[24:15] Speaker 11: The statistics on gambling versus investing are definitive in terms
[24:18] Speaker 11: of how much money the average person loses for the former.
[24:21] Speaker 11: So investing over the long term is statistically and empirically
[24:24] Speaker 11: it is that, you know, it's the better way to
[24:26] Speaker 11: sort of build wealth. But I think also what has
[24:29] Speaker 11: sort of taken hold, and this was sort of embedded
[24:31] Speaker 11: I think a little bit in the story that you
[24:33] Speaker 11: were discussing earlier, is that we have, because of housing
[24:37] Speaker 11: being so much at the center of how people view
[24:39] Speaker 11: wealth building now and the fact that housing is frozen
[24:42] Speaker 11: for a huge chunk of people out of reach, we
[24:45] Speaker 11: have been living in what has been called this little
[24:47] Speaker 11: treat economy where people are treating themselves to smaller things,
[24:51] Speaker 11: not necessarily thinking about saving for a big down payment
[24:54] Speaker 11: or a big purchase. Not painting that across the board
[24:56] Speaker 11: from millennials, but that is increasingly becoming the and the feeling,
[25:00] Speaker 11: and hence why you see also a lot more money
[25:02] Speaker 11: being put into the stock market. So again, it's not
[25:04] Speaker 11: necessarily an outright bad thing, it's just different in how
[25:07] Speaker 11: people are treating their wealth.
[25:09] Speaker 5: I mean, this source of demand for equities kind of
[25:11] Speaker 5: continues unabated. If people are treating gambling as investing when
[25:16] Speaker 5: they really want to go to something safe, what is
[25:18] Speaker 5: that safe thing?
[25:19] Speaker 11: Well, the same, I mean, I would argue that you know,
[25:21] Speaker 11: any sort of tried and shrud and tested asset class,
[25:23] Speaker 11: whether it's the bond market, whether it's the stock market,
[25:26] Speaker 11: you know, those traditional asset classes have sort of proven
[25:29] Speaker 11: their worth over time.
[25:29] Speaker 5: Our millennials investments, I.
[25:32] Speaker 11: Wouldn't say that the interest is there yet, especially when
[25:34] Speaker 11: I speak to them.
[25:35] Speaker 10: I think that that's still maybe.
[25:37] Speaker 11: Maybe a more of a kind of enigma in a
[25:40] Speaker 11: little bit of a black box in terms of the
[25:41] Speaker 11: dynamics of the bond class as well. A lot oh yeah,
[25:44] Speaker 11: I mean to me, I'm a stock market person, so
[25:46] Speaker 11: the bond market to me is still an enigma. But
[25:48] Speaker 11: I think you know, when you when you start to
[25:49] Speaker 11: look into mechanics and the maths of the bond market,
[25:52] Speaker 11: especially this week. I mean, when I have people now
[25:55] Speaker 11: texting me about bonds, that's when you know things are
[25:57] Speaker 11: really getting out.
[25:58] Speaker 10: Into the me instrum and getting very, very interesting.
[26:00] Speaker 11: But I still think that from that sort of coupon perspective,
[26:04] Speaker 11: in that yield perspective, you know, we've been in the
[26:06] Speaker 11: camp that the bombbackdrop is favorable, maybe not necessarily out
[26:09] Speaker 11: to the long end in the ten year, but if
[26:12] Speaker 11: you're focusing sort of ripe below duration, which is where
[26:14] Speaker 11: our guidance is.
[26:15] Speaker 2: I love. This is brilliant, Kevin. This banner that we've
[26:18] Speaker 2: got up now, young Americans living in the treat economy,
[26:21] Speaker 2: that's absolutely brilliant. Let's bring this off the writings of
[26:24] Speaker 2: Kevin Gordon. He's been writing all summer because Liz Anne
[26:26] Speaker 2: took the summer off. The S and P five undered
[26:29] Speaker 2: up margin yet breadth improving emphasized moments by the fact
[26:34] Speaker 2: equal way to S and P up eight point nine
[26:36] Speaker 2: percent mag seven down the tubes, So we're learning again
[26:40] Speaker 2: about rotation, and then bring it back to retirement. If
[26:44] Speaker 2: I'm in those ugly middle years where I'm thinking about retirement,
[26:48] Speaker 2: I'm scared stiff, I won't have enough money, but I'm paralyzed.
[26:52] Speaker 2: I can't do anything forty five, fifty to fifty five
[26:55] Speaker 2: years old. What's the path given this new breadth.
[26:58] Speaker 10: Well, the the breadth of the market.
[27:01] Speaker 11: I think in what you've learned over the past several years,
[27:02] Speaker 11: because we've been and I would argue this multi year
[27:04] Speaker 11: rotation process not necessarily outside of the mag seven where
[27:08] Speaker 11: those companies just aren't going to be good performers, but
[27:11] Speaker 11: you've we often find that there's this conflating and you
[27:14] Speaker 11: run into this where people think just because they're the
[27:17] Speaker 11: largest companies, they're going to be the best performers in
[27:19] Speaker 11: the market. That was the case several years ago, but
[27:21] Speaker 11: that hasn't been the case in the past several years.
[27:24] Speaker 11: So I think that notably twenty four to twenty five,
[27:26] Speaker 11: that's when you started to see more of a definitive shift.
[27:29] Speaker 11: So the fact that they could still be up this
[27:31] Speaker 11: year or up over the past year, that's true, but
[27:34] Speaker 11: they're you know, sort of seating leadership to a lot
[27:37] Speaker 11: of other parts of the market that have been asleep
[27:38] Speaker 11: for a good chunk of this bowl market. Small caps
[27:41] Speaker 11: is sort of the poster child of that. So I
[27:42] Speaker 11: think in a rotational market where you've got north of
[27:45] Speaker 11: seventy percent of companies in the S and P five
[27:47] Speaker 11: hundred that are trading above their two hundred day moving average,
[27:50] Speaker 11: that is much more consistent with rotational markets where leadership
[27:52] Speaker 11: can change over time and it's not necessarily portending, you know,
[27:56] Speaker 11: some massive drop in the market. Very different backdrop than
[27:59] Speaker 11: late twenty twenty one, which I think is an important
[28:01] Speaker 11: analog because that's when things started to get way too
[28:03] Speaker 11: top heavy, but at the end of the surface was deteriorating,
[28:06] Speaker 11: and then you ultimately had the fair market in twenty two.
[28:08] Speaker 5: I want to go back to what you said about
[28:09] Speaker 5: the treat economy and how people are feeling that they
[28:11] Speaker 5: want to get, you know, treat themselves a little bit
[28:13] Speaker 5: because the big things are so out of reach. The
[28:15] Speaker 5: flip side of that is that phenomenon of fire right
[28:18] Speaker 5: financial independence and retire early invests really aggressively deny yourself
[28:23] Speaker 5: everything for now, so that by what thirty or forty
[28:26] Speaker 5: or fifty, you can retire it and go live your
[28:27] Speaker 5: best life. How much does that come up in your
[28:30] Speaker 5: conversations with this generation of investors.
[28:32] Speaker 10: Comes up a lot.
[28:33] Speaker 11: I have a lot of discussions with individuals who, you know,
[28:36] Speaker 11: whether it's in a friend capacity and they're just letting
[28:39] Speaker 11: me know their experience, or if it's at a client
[28:41] Speaker 11: of it and someone tells me about whether it's themselves
[28:44] Speaker 11: or if it's there, if it's their child or grandchild,
[28:46] Speaker 11: just that the you know, I think the concept around
[28:48] Speaker 11: labor in the US and how that has changed, how
[28:50] Speaker 11: you can have a lot more sources of supplemental income
[28:52] Speaker 11: these days. You know, again, survey after survey showing that
[28:55] Speaker 11: younger people think that you know, content creator is sort
[28:58] Speaker 11: of rising up the list of potential you know, for
[29:01] Speaker 11: a job, and for a full time job. Not that
[29:03] Speaker 11: that's going to be the dominant job. It's not that
[29:05] Speaker 11: I'm predicting that, but that's becoming more of a sort
[29:09] Speaker 11: of a sentiment in the US amongst the younger crowd.
[29:11] Speaker 11: Is that with the fire movement, but also having different
[29:14] Speaker 11: streams of income, not necessarily relying only on you know,
[29:18] Speaker 11: one incomes fright from one job necessary.
[29:20] Speaker 2: Forty thousand billion, folks, I speak like the English here
[29:23] Speaker 2: instead of forty trillion, forty trillion is forty thousand brillion.
[29:26] Speaker 2: Bring up the debt clock again. I'm Bloomberg running today.
[29:29] Speaker 2: It's a debt clock hat trick. We brought it up
[29:31] Speaker 2: there that it's like forty billion in counting and all that.
[29:36] Speaker 2: Do the young kids care about the debt? Or is
[29:38] Speaker 2: that just you know Liz Anne was was was wonderful
[29:41] Speaker 2: on this, and I think the younger Bush administration do
[29:44] Speaker 2: we care about the debt? If we're young Turks?
[29:47] Speaker 11: I would say in general, the younger generation, I don't
[29:50] Speaker 11: hear about the debt.
[29:51] Speaker 10: Maybe.
[29:51] Speaker 11: Ever, I think that for some of these numbers, whether
[29:55] Speaker 11: it's the debt, whether it is some of this issuance
[29:57] Speaker 11: in the bond market, whether it is everything related to
[29:59] Speaker 11: A and the investments that you're seeing, some of these
[30:02] Speaker 11: numbers are just so large. I think that the mind
[30:05] Speaker 11: can't really comprehend them. I was sitting sitting in a
[30:08] Speaker 11: strategy meeting this morning and someone was saying, and I'm
[30:11] Speaker 11: going to fudge the numbers and not remember them. It
[30:14] Speaker 11: to call for the numbers. But someone was saying, you know,
[30:16] Speaker 11: a trillion seconds. If you think about it in timing,
[30:18] Speaker 11: a trillion seconds is you know, some decades ago in
[30:22] Speaker 11: terms of years, so you know, you compound that to
[30:25] Speaker 11: forty or you you sort of multiply that to forty,
[30:27] Speaker 11: and it kind of puts into context how big these
[30:29] Speaker 11: numbers are and how we really can't sort of fathom them.
[30:31] Speaker 11: So it's I don't blame people for maybe shying away
[30:34] Speaker 11: from wanting to approach that topic. But at the same time, again,
[30:38] Speaker 11: we've been living with such large debt piles and large
[30:40] Speaker 11: deficits for so long. I think also part of this
[30:43] Speaker 11: is it has become a bit of the new norm.
[30:44] Speaker 11: Not that I'm endorsing it, but when you have both
[30:47] Speaker 11: sides that really don't seemingly want to do anything about it,
[30:49] Speaker 11: and it becomes just this norm, that's what happened seconds.
[30:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, is a glass half full or glass half empty?
[30:55] Speaker 2: Right now as you're right for the weekend?
[30:57] Speaker 10: Glass effel?
[30:58] Speaker 2: There you go? I mean, can come back coming Gordon
[31:00] Speaker 2: with Charles Schrom. You're listening to Bloomberg Money stay with
[31:05] Speaker 2: us with more to come after this.
[31:14] Speaker 5: Kevin Gordon was just telling us about the treat economy.
[31:17] Speaker 5: There's data from PNC credit card data that show year
[31:20] Speaker 5: over year growth in hobby spending in every month since
[31:23] Speaker 5: April of twenty twenty five. And this increase in the
[31:25] Speaker 5: past year is outpacing discretion and purchases overall. And guess
[31:29] Speaker 5: what expands across all generations from Tom King's baby boomers
[31:33] Speaker 5: to the youngest Gen zers. And what it suggests is
[31:36] Speaker 5: that consumers are making more room for their pastimes in
[31:39] Speaker 5: their budget. Julia Fanzeraz joins us now to discuss I
[31:42] Speaker 5: mean sometimes they're not saving as much in order to
[31:46] Speaker 5: spend on treats for themselves.
[31:47] Speaker 12: Absolutely, personal savings are at a four year low right now,
[31:50] Speaker 12: and people are saying, you know, at a time where
[31:52] Speaker 12: everything's very expensive and you want to be happy, we're
[31:55] Speaker 12: going to spend a lot and splurge on these hobbies.
[31:59] Speaker 5: What kind of hobbies are talking about? I mean there's like,
[32:01] Speaker 5: you know, making music, playing sports. I mean these are
[32:03] Speaker 5: not big budget items or are they.
[32:06] Speaker 12: Well, the funny thing about hobbies is sometimes when you
[32:09] Speaker 12: start it, it's a very low entryway, but when you
[32:11] Speaker 12: get very into.
[32:12] Speaker 5: It, that's when it gets expensive.
[32:13] Speaker 12: So we chatted with people who, you know, they started
[32:15] Speaker 12: off buying sticker sheets. Now they're spending three hundred dollars
[32:18] Speaker 12: a month on stickers. Yes, to do junk bar on stickers,
[32:21] Speaker 12: Can you believe it?
[32:23] Speaker 5: Stickers like stickers, just what you put like a stock.
[32:26] Speaker 2: My mother called those green stamps and she could buy
[32:28] Speaker 2: in a cheap chat.
[32:29] Speaker 5: With its twenty three hundred dollars a month.
[32:32] Speaker 2: But in the old days, we had time for hobbies,
[32:33] Speaker 2: like somebody had a forty eight foot Hinkley Bermuda, or
[32:37] Speaker 2: you play golf three times a week. We're not doing
[32:39] Speaker 2: that anymore, are we.
[32:40] Speaker 12: I feel like the pandemic has pushed people to get
[32:43] Speaker 12: back into spending time with themselves and going back to
[32:46] Speaker 12: these hobbies. Actually spoke to someone who said they're back
[32:48] Speaker 12: into golf because their coworkers were golfing, and he's golfing
[32:51] Speaker 12: with his friends and now he got his own personal
[32:53] Speaker 12: six hundred and fifty dollars Callowey driver.
[32:57] Speaker 5: Okay, so stickers also crafting. You talked to comempanies that
[33:00] Speaker 5: really cater to people's hobbies like Michael's, and they confirmed
[33:04] Speaker 5: that this is a real thing. That's what was fascinating.
[33:06] Speaker 12: Michael Ceo was saying, you know, the really amazing thing
[33:09] Speaker 12: about this is it's generational. As you mentioned, people are
[33:12] Speaker 12: spending more and more, and it's just not just you know,
[33:15] Speaker 12: oh I'm buying like ten dollars here and there.
[33:16] Speaker 5: They're making large purchases. You know.
[33:18] Speaker 12: I was telling Tom earlier, I bought a two hundred
[33:20] Speaker 12: dollars sewing machine because I wanted to get back into sewing.
[33:23] Speaker 12: It has not been so lucreative because I did want
[33:25] Speaker 12: to save on hemming and I've had to fix a
[33:27] Speaker 12: lot of those, but it's still very fun.
[33:29] Speaker 2: Is there like a modern AI tech sewing machine or
[33:32] Speaker 2: is it just a standard singer thing.
[33:34] Speaker 12: It's a standard singer, heavy duty. It is a standard singer,
[33:37] Speaker 12: heavy duty, very low tech color gray.
[33:39] Speaker 2: Unfortunately they didn't have industrial, didn't have the pink.
[33:42] Speaker 5: They did a booting the economy, boosting the economy.
[33:45] Speaker 2: We're going to books. Thank you so much for your
[33:46] Speaker 2: comments on what's scholars.
[33:47] Speaker 5: There's also a way to spend on your hobby.
[33:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, books is part of it. Is well,
[33:53] Speaker 2: moving to Paris here because Julia dark in the door
[33:56] Speaker 2: at Seance Poll a few years ago. My book on
[33:59] Speaker 2: Paris this is a required read. David McCollough, I just
[34:02] Speaker 2: simply can't say enough about it. The Greater Journey. This
[34:05] Speaker 2: book is so strong about the arc from the eighteen
[34:08] Speaker 2: thirty forties through regimes Commune, all the challenges of Paris.
[34:13] Speaker 2: You're angry when the book ends. It's a required read
[34:16] Speaker 2: for every expat bratt going to Paris, particularly if they
[34:21] Speaker 2: go to Seonce Poe and hang out at the Moose Bar.
[34:24] Speaker 5: Who are you referring to?
[34:25] Speaker 2: I wouldn't know who that would be.
[34:27] Speaker 5: How could that possibly be? Oh, Julia, you spent time
[34:30] Speaker 5: in Paris. I don't know if you read this book,
[34:32] Speaker 5: but I mean you certainly felt like an expot when
[34:34] Speaker 5: you were there, and it's a very special experience. Absolutely.
[34:36] Speaker 12: I was reading you know, James Baldwin Givannie's Room, you know,
[34:39] Speaker 12: book set in Paris, and then also Scott f Scott
[34:42] Speaker 12: Fitzgerald and Zelda Fitzgerald's work, because to really feel like
[34:45] Speaker 12: that American in Paris, you do feel like an expot,
[34:47] Speaker 12: but it feels like New York. You know, they're very friendly,
[34:50] Speaker 12: just a little brusque, and they all speak French.
[34:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really an important idea. And we were talking
[34:56] Speaker 2: about the gap year earlier. You go to Seance Poe
[34:59] Speaker 2: it's not a gap year.
[35:00] Speaker 12: This is like work, wasn't it that one? A lot
[35:03] Speaker 12: of my friends had fun in their broads. I was studying,
[35:05] Speaker 12: I was taking classes in French.
[35:07] Speaker 5: It was it was grueling, but it was good. It
[35:08] Speaker 5: was very very good. Well, speaking of France, or at
[35:11] Speaker 5: least French food and French heritage, someone who is deeply
[35:14] Speaker 5: influenced by all of that is a late Anthony Bourdain.
[35:17] Speaker 5: So my reread for this week is Kitchen Confidential, which
[35:20] Speaker 5: of course was published back in two thousand. It's a
[35:23] Speaker 5: brutally honest memoir takedown really of the restaurant industry from
[35:26] Speaker 5: an insider, and because of him, we all learned that
[35:28] Speaker 5: you don't order fish on a Monday, you don't eat
[35:30] Speaker 5: the bread, you don't eat Sunday buffets. The reason why
[35:33] Speaker 5: I picked this book is also because it's the source
[35:35] Speaker 5: material for a new movie that's coming out this weekend. Okay,
[35:38] Speaker 5: it's called Tony. It's a biopic based on Bourdain's early years.
[35:43] Speaker 5: It's getting a bus. It's an A twenty four production.
[35:45] Speaker 5: Dominic Sessa is the lead actor, and he actually sounds
[35:49] Speaker 5: like Anthony Bourdain. I don't know what he did or
[35:51] Speaker 5: what kind of training he did, or you know what
[35:53] Speaker 5: kind of research he did, But he sounds like Anthony Bourdain.
[35:56] Speaker 5: There's a certain cadence that he achieves.
[35:58] Speaker 9: You know.
[35:58] Speaker 12: I've been seeing this book pop up all at time.
[36:00] Speaker 12: I was at a bar and I saw a guy
[36:01] Speaker 12: reading the book, and I went up to at the bar,
[36:03] Speaker 12: at the bar, at the bar performative reading, if you will.
[36:05] Speaker 12: Tollers we talked about earlier.
[36:07] Speaker 5: It's very much a building's ormond. I'm excited about it
[36:09] Speaker 5: because it's like the source material for the early years
[36:13] Speaker 5: of Anthony Boarding.
[36:14] Speaker 2: I mean, I look at this and within Bloomberg Money,
[36:17] Speaker 2: it's loads and loads of parents sending kids abroad. It's
[36:20] Speaker 2: an ancient thing. With a David McCullough book. This goes
[36:23] Speaker 2: back to the fabric of the nation. What was the
[36:26] Speaker 2: biggest to tie into scarlet? The biggest food surprise for you?
[36:31] Speaker 2: Don't tell me McDonald's in London or that. What was
[36:34] Speaker 2: the biggest French food surprise for you in Paris?
[36:37] Speaker 12: What surprised me the most was that food from everywhere
[36:40] Speaker 12: can taste good. I feel like sometimes in the US
[36:41] Speaker 12: you stop into any place and the food's not that great.
[36:44] Speaker 12: You would go into every single little cafe. The coffee was.
[36:47] Speaker 5: Amazing, the milk was amazing.
[36:48] Speaker 12: It was just that was the worst part transitioning back
[36:51] Speaker 12: was saying, oh, not every place.
[36:53] Speaker 2: Back to the Starbucks and ann Arbor. It just didn't work.
[36:55] Speaker 5: It didn't work for me anymore. Makes a lot of sense.
[36:59] Speaker 5: Any beget anywhere would be incredible, right the Krock Monsieur.
[37:03] Speaker 2: True story, I mean Davos Christine Lagard where it's some
[37:06] Speaker 2: French thing. Leguard turns to me, dead serious, Leguard. You
[37:09] Speaker 2: don't know, Tom, never make jokes about that. Gets and
[37:12] Speaker 2: bread with the French. Welcome back to Bloomberg Money, Tom
[37:17] Speaker 2: King with a scarlett Foo has just been a great,
[37:20] Speaker 2: great hour. And what we do is we look forward.
[37:22] Speaker 5: We look forward to how you're going to spend your
[37:25] Speaker 5: money this weekend and in the coming week. And the
[37:27] Speaker 5: US Open Fan Week begins this weekend. It's Chatterday, it's
[37:32] Speaker 5: fan Week. But they also you also have access to
[37:36] Speaker 5: what they call like the qualifying matches, the practice sessions,
[37:40] Speaker 5: so people like to wander around and check out the talent.
[37:43] Speaker 5: The main tournament doesn't begin until next Sunday, but it's.
[37:46] Speaker 2: Wonderful, particularly in midtown Manhattan. You're literally bumping into various
[37:51] Speaker 2: people carrying twenty.
[37:52] Speaker 5: Tennis rackets, right, I mean, and you're also paying up
[37:55] Speaker 5: for the Honey juices, which are a big thing. It's
[37:57] Speaker 5: a special drink. Have you heard of it.
[38:00] Speaker 2: I've heard of it. I tried one once. Okay, I
[38:03] Speaker 2: just once, but I tried it.
[38:05] Speaker 5: Taket prices for fan Week have really soured. This used
[38:08] Speaker 5: to be relatively affordable ground passes, but now they're up
[38:11] Speaker 5: to as much as three hundred and sixty three dollars,
[38:13] Speaker 5: so much so that Bill Ackman even complained about it
[38:16] Speaker 5: on There's a.
[38:17] Speaker 2: Lot of complaints's time around. But again, the players are
[38:19] Speaker 2: sort of like in a lot of other sports, revolting,
[38:22] Speaker 2: you know, talk about Bloomberg money. You know what they're
[38:24] Speaker 2: just saying, when do we get the TV pie? When
[38:26] Speaker 2: do we get our piece of the action.
[38:28] Speaker 5: Yeah, here's what Bill Ashley said. Yeah, he said, the
[38:30] Speaker 5: idea that a day one ground passes three hundred and
[38:32] Speaker 5: sixty three dollars is absurd. And by the way, he's
[38:35] Speaker 5: referring to the secondary price of that ground pass. But
[38:38] Speaker 5: you know, three hundred and sixty three to walk around
[38:40] Speaker 5: and check things out, that's kind of pricey.
[38:42] Speaker 2: We got to get Bill Backman on the show. He'd
[38:44] Speaker 2: be great to have on the show.
[38:45] Speaker 5: I think he has a lot of opinions that he'd liked.
[38:47] Speaker 2: Sure, we'd like to get you on here, B and C. Block.
[38:50] Speaker 2: We'll get that done as well. I mean to me,
[38:53] Speaker 2: it's just really really interesting. We're into the autumn.
[38:55] Speaker 5: Yeah, in the US Open and the US Open. Also
[38:59] Speaker 5: this weekend Shakespeare and the Prkets the last weekend. Those
[39:01] Speaker 5: tickets are free but very difficult to get, very difficult.
[39:04] Speaker 2: To get to say the least. Oh is there there?
[39:06] Speaker 5: I was in last year The Winter's Tale? That saw
[39:09] Speaker 5: what's playing this weekend.
[39:10] Speaker 2: I am the worst quoter of Shakespeare east of the Mississippi.
[39:14] Speaker 5: That's okay. This is Bloomberg Money. We don't need to
[39:16] Speaker 5: do Shakespeare.
[39:18] Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Money Podcast, bringing you a smart
[39:21] Speaker 2: look at the forces shaping your financial life. I'm Tim
[39:26] Speaker 2: Keen with Scarlet Food. You can watch the show live
[39:29] Speaker 2: on Bloomberg TV every Friday at noon Wall Street Time.
[39:33] Speaker 2: Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen,
[39:38] Speaker 2: and is always on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg
[39:41] Speaker 2: Business app.

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