# Bloomberg Money: Premium Travel, Fast Fashion, Luxury at the US Open & The Cost of College

An episode of [Bloomberg Intelligence](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/326301337), 5 Sep 2026, 45 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/1b0c2805-9805-43e6-9662-b4ab0110f413/f9fc1295-685c-42d5-b344-b4bb01698aef/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=0ad812bf-fd15-4012-a18c-ae3c00090c76

Bloomberg Money takes the pulse of your financial life, powered by the reporting of our global newsroom. Today's guests: The Points Guy Founder Brian Kelly and Telsey Advisory Group CEO & Chief Research Officer Dana Telsey. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts.
[0:05] Speaker 2: Radio.
[0:06] Speaker 3: News.
[0:07] Speaker 4: Bloomberg Money. This is the Bloomberg Money Podcast. I'm Tom
[0:15] Speaker 4: Keen with Scarlett Fu. Join us each week for a
[0:18] Speaker 4: smart look at the forces shaping your financial life on
[0:22] Speaker 4: personal finance, on retirement, and wealth management. We will explore
[0:27] Speaker 4: how people are earning, investing, and building wealth. We are
[0:31] Speaker 4: live Fridays at noon Eastern on Bloomberg Television. Subscribe to
[0:35] Speaker 4: the podcast wherever you listen, and as always on the
[0:38] Speaker 4: Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app.
[0:55] Speaker 5: Good noon, everyone.
[0:56] Speaker 4: A special edition of Bloomberg Money on personal finance, retirement,
[1:00] Speaker 4: wealth management, the joys of Labor Day, the children go
[1:03] Speaker 4: back to school. We're going to talk to Lisa Mateo
[1:05] Speaker 4: about that.
[1:06] Speaker 2: There were tears.
[1:07] Speaker 5: She took the offer to go to school.
[1:08] Speaker 1: Yes, I know. But you know what? We'll get through it.
[1:11] Speaker 1: We'll be right there.
[1:12] Speaker 5: We'll somehow survive.
[1:13] Speaker 2: What do you do on Labor Day? I mean, when
[1:14] Speaker 2: we're done here, what are you doing?
[1:16] Speaker 6: I'm actually obsessed with this trial, the Lindsey Clancy trial.
[1:19] Speaker 2: Oh, you're the celebrity load. So why did I know this?
[1:21] Speaker 1: One hour delay for defense to appeal. So it could
[1:23] Speaker 1: happen any minute now.
[1:24] Speaker 4: It's happening right now. Breaking news here on Bloomberg Money.
[1:27] Speaker 4: Of course, again, it's on personal finance, retirement and wealth management.
[1:30] Speaker 4: We've got a really, really interesting show for you today.
[1:34] Speaker 4: Coming up, we thought we'd do it. He was so
[1:36] Speaker 4: kind to come in. Brian Kelly will be with us,
[1:39] Speaker 4: who changed the way all of us travel. All of
[1:42] Speaker 4: us use our charts. The guy is absolutely foundational. to
[1:46] Speaker 4: each and every one of us in our personal finance.
[1:48] Speaker 6: He actually wrote the book on it. We're also going
[1:50] Speaker 6: to continue the conversation on how we spend our money.
[1:53] Speaker 6: Dana Telsey, the authority on specialty retail, on the affordability
[1:57] Speaker 6: crisis in your closet, in apparel.
[2:00] Speaker 1: Is fast fashion dead?
[2:01] Speaker 4: Well, finish in his dad, but also, like, what are
[2:04] Speaker 4: they wearing at the tennis tournament?
[2:06] Speaker 2: I mean, they're draped in Tiffany and draped in this.
[2:09] Speaker 1: I don't know how you can play tennis with all that.
[2:11] Speaker 2: I don't understand. I don't get it.
[2:12] Speaker 5: We'll have to see on that.
[2:14] Speaker 4: That's Dana Telsey to be with us. We're really looking
[2:16] Speaker 4: forward to that. We've got a great lineup in a
[2:18] Speaker 4: few moments as well. I think we've got a stagger
[2:21] Speaker 4: of stocks right now. And look at what's going on
[2:25] Speaker 4: in the stock market.
[2:26] Speaker 2: And he answers, we can do this quickly. Down 300 points.
[2:28] Speaker 2: Pulling back.
[2:30] Speaker 4: McKee's going to explain why. Good jobs report, stocks go down.
[2:34] Speaker 4: I don't get it.
[2:35] Speaker 6: Yeah, President Trump doesn't like to see this dynamic, and
[2:37] Speaker 6: he's made that very clear. Let's look at the cross-asset
[2:40] Speaker 6: board as well. Stocks are a little changed on the week,
[2:42] Speaker 6: we should note. The 10-year yield, not doing a whole lot,
[2:45] Speaker 6: but sitting near the highest in one month. The dollar
[2:47] Speaker 6: is slightly higher, but it is down for the week.
[2:50] Speaker 6: And the big mover, of course, the yen, strengthening. Oil prices,
[2:53] Speaker 6: you can see, down for the first time this week. However,
[2:56] Speaker 6: still above $ 90 a barrel.
[2:58] Speaker 5: Very good.
[2:58] Speaker 4: We've got a great lineup of people, the only three
[3:01] Speaker 4: people at.
[3:01] Speaker 2: Bloomberg that came into the office today. Stacey Vanek-Smith is
[3:05] Speaker 2: with us.
[3:06] Speaker 4: We're thrilled she's with us with everybody's business and all
[3:09] Speaker 4: of her good work.
[3:09] Speaker 5: She has to work with Max.
[3:12] Speaker 6: I think it's a privilege that they get to do
[3:15] Speaker 6: this podcast and that they're both in today.
[3:17] Speaker 1: I mean, we're just grateful.
[3:18] Speaker 5: McKee with us as well. We'll cover the Red Sox
[3:20] Speaker 5: Orioles here in a bit.
[3:21] Speaker 4: But Mike McKee, of course, importantly on a jobs report,
[3:25] Speaker 4: the state of the American economy. And what a special treat.
[3:28] Speaker 4: Jeffrey Mason with us. Jeff Mason covers the White House
[3:31] Speaker 4: and is in this weekend for David Gurra. Bloomberg this weekend.
[3:34] Speaker 4: I mean, it's going to be interesting to say the least.
[3:36] Speaker 7: Yeah, we've got a good show coming up.
[3:37] Speaker 2: And we'll see.
[3:38] Speaker 4: We'll talk about the convention here in a moment. Let
[3:42] Speaker 4: me get right to it. Mike McKee, first to you
[3:44] Speaker 4: on the job economy. Down last time.
[3:48] Speaker 2: Up this time, you just blend them together and say,
[3:50] Speaker 2: state of play? Well, essentially, that's what economists are going
[3:53] Speaker 2: to do.
[3:53] Speaker 8: They're going to look at the three-month moving average, which
[3:55] Speaker 8: is about 77,000, which is a good number, considering you
[3:58] Speaker 8: only need somewhere between 30 and 50 to keep the
[4:01] Speaker 8: unemployment rate from rising, essentially, now that we have a
[4:05] Speaker 8: much smaller labor force. Although the labor force did grow
[4:08] Speaker 8: this last month by quite a bit, and that has
[4:11] Speaker 8: kept the unemployment rate at 4.1%.
[4:13] Speaker 2: I've got eight.
[4:14] Speaker 5: Ways to go here.
[4:15] Speaker 4: There's just so much to talk about. But the bottom
[4:17] Speaker 4: line is there's a wage and there's this inflation. 100%
[4:21] Speaker 4: of the people I talk to say, I'm losing ground
[4:24] Speaker 4: every single month.
[4:26] Speaker 5: Where's the real wage right now?
[4:28] Speaker 2: Well, they are losing ground every single month.
[4:30] Speaker 8: Basically, average hourly earnings are running below and have been
[4:33] Speaker 8: for a couple of months, the inflation rate. And so, yes,
[4:37] Speaker 8: you're losing ground. Now, not every measure shows that. And
[4:41] Speaker 8: I had an interesting discussion with the chairman of the
[4:43] Speaker 8: Council of Economic Advisors who wants to look at average
[4:46] Speaker 8: weekly wages because he says those are still low.
[4:49] Speaker 2: Outpacing inflation. But basically, the American people are right.
[4:53] Speaker 8: They're losing ground because the level of prices isn't going down.
[4:58] Speaker 8: We may see a slowdown in the change, the monthly change,
[5:02] Speaker 8: but the level of price is still high.
[5:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's proven to be very sticky.
[5:05] Speaker 6: Now, speaking of sticky inflation, Stacey, you've been monitoring gas prices,
[5:09] Speaker 6: and in particular, diesel prices, because that is the engine
[5:13] Speaker 6: of how we move things, move goods around this country.
[5:15] Speaker 9: Yes, this is apparently going to be the most expensive
[5:18] Speaker 9: Labor Day ever in terms of gas prices, but diesel
[5:21] Speaker 9: especially is at a.
[5:22] Speaker 10: Record high for all time, $ 5.
[5:24] Speaker 5: 85 a gallon.
[5:24] Speaker 11: It's up.
[5:27] Speaker 9: Almost 60 percent over just last year, but also average
[5:31] Speaker 9: gas prices of about 30 percent. If you're for people
[5:33] Speaker 9: who are traveling this weekend, it's going to be the
[5:36] Speaker 9: most expensive Labor Day ever.
[5:38] Speaker 4: But diesels, it's a huge deal and it's not in
[5:41] Speaker 4: the political discussion.
[5:43] Speaker 6: No, because the truckers deal with it and people in
[5:45] Speaker 6: Europe deal with it. But it just means that every
[5:47] Speaker 6: time you buy something, it becomes more expensive because of
[5:49] Speaker 6: the transport.
[5:50] Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean, it's $ 5.
[5:52] Speaker 11: 85.
[5:52] Speaker 4: I think in London it's $ 9 something with the tax
[5:55] Speaker 4: override as well. Jeff Mason with us, and what he's
[5:58] Speaker 4: going to see next week, I guess, is simply the
[6:02] Speaker 4: great commonwealth of Massachusetts, the home of Adlai Rutschman, who
[6:07] Speaker 4: hit homers against his Orioles.
[6:10] Speaker 5: It's not a convention. Stop it. It's not a convention, right?
[6:14] Speaker 7: Well, they're calling it a convention, Tom, but it's not
[6:17] Speaker 7: an actual convention. You're absolutely right, because there's no one
[6:19] Speaker 7: being nominated. The president is not running for anything, but
[6:22] Speaker 7: they're calling it a convention basically to use a word
[6:25] Speaker 7: that people understand to have a gathering. And they're going
[6:29] Speaker 7: to have a gathering and it's going to be as
[6:31] Speaker 7: big sales pitch.
[6:32] Speaker 5: For the Republicans.
[6:32] Speaker 2: Will there be a Vance or Rubio sighting?
[6:34] Speaker 7: There will certainly be a Vance sighting. He's speaking on
[6:37] Speaker 7: Wednesday night. The president is speaking on both nights. I
[6:39] Speaker 7: think you'll hear a lot from him. I think you'll
[6:42] Speaker 7: also hear a lot about Ken Paxton, who's running for
[6:45] Speaker 7: Senate from Texas and not doing very well in terms
[6:47] Speaker 7: of fundraising.
[6:48] Speaker 6: Is the president losing support among the GOP constituents and
[6:52] Speaker 6: even the GOP leadership? Because you had the Congressman Pat
[6:56] Speaker 6: Harrigan admitting that when it comes to Iran, very clearly, militarily,
[7:01] Speaker 6: we are stalled.
[7:02] Speaker 1: And a lot of candidates don't want him there when
[7:04] Speaker 1: they're campaigning.
[7:05] Speaker 5: It depends on where they are.
[7:06] Speaker 7: So the base is still very supportive of President Trump,
[7:08] Speaker 7: for sure, and he knows that. But there are places,
[7:11] Speaker 7: swing districts, swing states, where they probably don't want to
[7:15] Speaker 7: campaign with President Trump, whose poll ratings broadly across the
[7:19] Speaker 7: country are pretty low.
[7:20] Speaker 5: Scarlett, Mr. McKee would like the floor.
[7:23] Speaker 2: I was just going to point out that you said
[7:25] Speaker 2: you will hear from.
[7:27] Speaker 8: I don't think very many people are going to hear
[7:29] Speaker 8: from the Republican meeting down in Dallas because we're always
[7:33] Speaker 8: talking about how can they say how can they do this?
[7:36] Speaker 8: They scheduled their meetings up against the opening of the
[7:40] Speaker 8: National Football League season. First night, Patriots and Seahawks Super
[7:44] Speaker 8: Bowl rematch. Second night, Rams and 49ers rematch. I suspect
[7:50] Speaker 8: that the ratings for the extravaganza in Dallas are.
[7:53] Speaker 2: Going to be very low.
[7:54] Speaker 8: Perhaps the only good news is that the Cowboys are
[7:56] Speaker 8: not playing or nobody in Texas would watch.
[7:59] Speaker 7: And the president, as we all know, is a former
[8:01] Speaker 7: reality TV host who likes to talk about ratings. So
[8:03] Speaker 7: that's going to be a challenge for him.
[8:05] Speaker 4: Can we juxtapose the world of everybody's business, which is
[8:08] Speaker 4: a hipster thing? I mean, you guys are doing such
[8:11] Speaker 4: a great job capturing a zeitgeist of a group of
[8:14] Speaker 4: people disassociated from me and McKee. In his world of
[8:19] Speaker 4: fancy people in suits and ties and Chanel dresses. I mean,
[8:23] Speaker 4: it's like, Stacey, it's like two worlds apart in America.
[8:27] Speaker 10: It is very much two worlds apart.
[8:29] Speaker 9: And I think that's probably one of the challenges that's
[8:31] Speaker 9: going to come up at the convention is I think
[8:33] Speaker 9: a lot of people feel like there are an increasingly
[8:36] Speaker 9: separated world in the U.S. There are people who are
[8:39] Speaker 9: struggling for their wages to keep up with inflation. And
[8:42] Speaker 9: then there are people who are making a lot of money,
[8:45] Speaker 9: like almost unimaginable amounts. And I think that divide is
[8:48] Speaker 9: certainly a major political issue right now.
[8:50] Speaker 7: And the president, I think, he likes to talk about wealth.
[8:54] Speaker 7: He likes to talk about presiding over a bunch of
[8:56] Speaker 7: stock market highs. But he also has been very dismissive
[9:00] Speaker 7: of the word affordability. He's called that a democratic hoax.
[9:03] Speaker 7: And yet he and his people are very aware that
[9:06] Speaker 7: that's probably the key issue in.
[9:07] Speaker 2: The midterm elections.
[9:08] Speaker 6: I mean, even places like Ohio, North Carolina, Michigan, and Pennsylvania,
[9:12] Speaker 6: property prices and property taxes have been rising so rapidly
[9:15] Speaker 6: that they are starting to benefit from SALT tax breaks
[9:18] Speaker 6: that were once upon a time just the province of
[9:20] Speaker 6: the Northeast in California.
[9:22] Speaker 2: Super interesting.
[9:23] Speaker 7: And you're seeing some increased support in those places for
[9:25] Speaker 7: those SALT taxes, which is fascinating.
[9:28] Speaker 5: Around the table, round table, how many miles do you have?
[9:31] Speaker 9: How many miles do I have to travel?
[9:33] Speaker 2: Like the miles, the charge card miles, you add them up,
[9:36] Speaker 2: airline miles.
[9:37] Speaker 9: Credit card points. I'm not so great about credit card points,
[9:39] Speaker 9: but I do have quite a few saved up on
[9:41] Speaker 9: my change.
[9:42] Speaker 5: Mickey, how many do you have?
[9:43] Speaker 8: Well, in terms of what I could spend right now
[9:47] Speaker 8: on airlines, a little over $ 100, 000 because my kids use
[9:50] Speaker 8: them all.
[9:50] Speaker 2: The kids use them all the time. It's a scam.
[9:53] Speaker 2: But I'm close to two million total.
[9:55] Speaker 5: It's two million miles. Jeff, how many miles do you have?
[9:58] Speaker 7: I'm doing something wrong because I don't know and I
[10:02] Speaker 7: don't think I have anywhere near that many.
[10:04] Speaker 5: The Foo, how many miles do you have?
[10:05] Speaker 1: 70,000 on one card, 40,000 on the other.
[10:08] Speaker 4: I have 500,000 total, and I'm with McKee, they all
[10:11] Speaker 4: go to the kids.
[10:12] Speaker 5: It's a racket.
[10:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
[10:14] Speaker 4: It's Brian Kelly's fault. Thank you, you three, for showing
[10:17] Speaker 4: up on Labor Day. Really appreciate it. Brian Kelly changed
[10:21] Speaker 4: our world. He's the one that figured out charge cards
[10:25] Speaker 4: and miles. We're going to talk to Brian Kelly here,
[10:27] Speaker 4: the points guy, the founder of the website.
[10:31] Speaker 5: Stay with us. This is Bloomberg Money.
[10:32] Speaker 2: It's a special edition, a Labor Day edition. Around the table, quick. Hot, hot,
[10:38] Speaker 2: cold lobsters. Cold lobster.
[10:41] Speaker 4: Cold.
[10:41] Speaker 12: Hot.
[10:42] Speaker 13: Hot.
[10:43] Speaker 2: It's un-American. Hot.
[10:50] Speaker 4: Special edition Bloomberg Money, the Labor Day edition. It's Gardner
[10:53] Speaker 4: Fu and Tom Grumman. A lot of fun here. It's
[10:56] Speaker 4: a lighter show on personal finance, on retirement, wealth management,
[11:00] Speaker 4: and you don't have enough miles. Joining us now, without question, one, two,
[11:04] Speaker 4: maybe three people who seriously changed. personal finance. Brian Kelly
[11:09] Speaker 4: did it with the Points Guy. How did the website start?
[11:13] Speaker 4: What was the first week like, the first month.
[11:15] Speaker 2: Of the Points Guy? The first week, June of 2010,
[11:16] Speaker 2: I was working at Morgan Stanley. I was a corporate
[11:19] Speaker 2: recruiter going to all the college career fairs and a
[11:22] Speaker 2: I was so good with my points because I would
[11:23] Speaker 2: put all of the career fairs on my corporate Amex.
[11:26] Speaker 2: And you could call and for $ 95 a year, you
[11:28] Speaker 2: could get all the points. So I became the guy,
[11:30] Speaker 2: the expense guy at Morgan Stanley. I put all the
[11:32] Speaker 2: career fairs on my credit card. So I was raking
[11:36] Speaker 2: in the points. So I started the points guy as
[11:37] Speaker 2: just like a way to share my tips as a
[11:39] Speaker 2: corporate traveler. And within 11 months, it just blew up. So-
[11:45] Speaker 2: It took off.
[11:46] Speaker 6: Your book, How to Win at Travel, came out in
[11:48] Speaker 6: 2025 in which you really lay out your thesis that
[11:50] Speaker 6: points are real and non-liquid assets.
[11:52] Speaker 1: They are a currency.
[11:54] Speaker 6: My question to you is how much devaluation have we
[11:56] Speaker 6: seen in this currency after the pandemic ended and the
[11:59] Speaker 6: world embarked on revenge travel?
[12:01] Speaker 2: Yeah. So loyalty, the airlines are just planes. They're banks
[12:06] Speaker 2: masquerading as airlines. The loyalty business is bigger than ever.
[12:10] Speaker 2: It's what's driving all the profit. You see Delta and
[12:13] Speaker 2: United are just doing incredibly because of their co-brand portfolio.
[12:17] Speaker 2: So yes, there is an increase in inflation, how many
[12:20] Speaker 2: miles it takes to get a flight in general. But
[12:22] Speaker 2: the foreign frequent flyer programs, that's where the value is.
[12:25] Speaker 2: So for example, Flying Blue, which is Air France's They
[12:28] Speaker 2: have 60,000-mile business class awards all throughout the year. That's
[12:32] Speaker 2: unheard of. The same flight using Delta SkyMiles can be
[12:35] Speaker 2: 500,000 points. So the real experts, there's still many deals
[12:38] Speaker 2: to be had, but all the value is mostly with
[12:40] Speaker 2: the foreign frequent flyer programs.
[12:42] Speaker 5: Right, right.
[12:43] Speaker 2: For partners of Amex, Chase, Citi, Cap One, so... The.
[12:46] Speaker 4: Racket here is you came up with this, it's your fault,
[12:49] Speaker 4: and we're all going to be doobies and pay down
[12:51] Speaker 4: our charge cards every month. Bloomberg money, it's on personal finance.
[12:55] Speaker 4: What percent of people actually do the Brian Kelly formula
[12:59] Speaker 4: and zero out their charge cards every month?
[13:01] Speaker 2: A huge amount. And the banks want them because in
[13:04] Speaker 2: the United States, we have a large fee, about 2%
[13:08] Speaker 2: every time you use a card. So even if you're
[13:10] Speaker 2: paying your balances off, Amex wants that. They certainly still
[13:13] Speaker 2: make money on interest, but- That interchange fee is still
[13:16] Speaker 2: very lucrative and they get you on other products. So
[13:18] Speaker 2: this whole rewards ecosystem is very lucrative for banks. All
[13:22] Speaker 2: the banks are doing well. The airlines who have leaned
[13:24] Speaker 2: into it are doing well. And I argue in my
[13:26] Speaker 2: book that consumers can do well, too, as long as
[13:28] Speaker 2: you know how to play the game, pay the bills off,
[13:30] Speaker 2: avoid interest and then maximize the redemption of those points.
[13:33] Speaker 6: However, right now in this economy, a lot of consumers
[13:35] Speaker 6: are not doing that well. And it's a sign of
[13:37] Speaker 6: the times that people are increasingly using the points that
[13:39] Speaker 6: they accumulate to pay for food and gas rather than
[13:42] Speaker 6: trips to Italy, for instance. Are you seeing more people
[13:46] Speaker 6: use their points for daily necessities?
[13:47] Speaker 2: No. I actually think in the airline space, we're seeing
[13:50] Speaker 2: airlines all retrofit their planes to have more business class,
[13:53] Speaker 2: more premium economy. So while the broader economy, you know,
[13:56] Speaker 2: there are sectors struggling.
[13:58] Speaker 3: Right.
[13:58] Speaker 2: The premium travelers are driving. What did you do?
[14:01] Speaker 5: Read her script. Bring it up, Luigi. Come on.
[14:04] Speaker 4: Kelly's way out front here. The money mustery with Brian Kelly.
[14:08] Speaker 4: This is from his website. He was traveling somewhere for $ 58.
[14:12] Speaker 5: And didn't write this.
[14:13] Speaker 4: How many first class seats is too many? Delta, a
[14:16] Speaker 4: whopping 44 recliners, 11 rows, almost half the aircraft. They
[14:21] Speaker 4: expect to offer 8% more premium seats. When's the economy die?
[14:26] Speaker 11: Yeah.
[14:26] Speaker 2: I mean, economy, they keep making economy tighter and tighter
[14:29] Speaker 2: because there are still, you know, cost focused travelers. But
[14:32] Speaker 2: as we saw with Spirit, the purely economy budget airline
[14:36] Speaker 2: model does not work in the U.S. with expensive oil,
[14:39] Speaker 2: with expensive airports. You know, Ryanair is the model that
[14:42] Speaker 2: works in Europe. That's because they go to these third
[14:44] Speaker 2: rate airports. We don't have those in New York City.
[14:47] Speaker 2: We don't have those across the U.S. So The airlines,
[14:50] Speaker 2: you know, we just saw JetBlue is putting first class.
[14:52] Speaker 2: They just announced Frontier. You know, everyone is going premium.
[14:56] Speaker 2: That is how you win in travel.
[14:58] Speaker 6: Southwest has its new lounge network that it's launching with
[15:00] Speaker 6: Chase as well. Is there a ceiling to credit card
[15:03] Speaker 6: annual fees? Because we're rapidly approaching four figures. We're not
[15:06] Speaker 6: there yet. Amex Platinum is $ 895. Is there a level
[15:09] Speaker 6: that you see at which consumers would just resist paying
[15:12] Speaker 6: that fee?
[15:13] Speaker 5: It depends.
[15:14] Speaker 2: I mean, we've seen last year was big increases with
[15:16] Speaker 2: Sapphire Reserve, Amex Platinum. My understanding, if you look at
[15:20] Speaker 2: the public results of those companies, they're doing quite well.
[15:22] Speaker 2: And certainly, they'll have a drop-off. Not everyone wants to
[15:25] Speaker 2: pay $ 900 or $ 800. But then what happens is they
[15:28] Speaker 2: go to the other products, the Amex Gold Card. is
[15:31] Speaker 2: Forex on dining and groceries at a much lower annual fee.
[15:34] Speaker 2: That's actually a better points card for most people. So
[15:36] Speaker 2: some people might realize, hey, platinum might not be for me, but,
[15:40] Speaker 2: you know, so they still stay within the Amex family.
[15:42] Speaker 4: You wanted to run from this because you're such a
[15:43] Speaker 4: premium guy.
[15:45] Speaker 5: What's the biggest flight you've ever done where you went
[15:47] Speaker 5: for $ 48 to the moon?
[15:49] Speaker 4: What was the biggest Brian Kelly, you know, wealth management fight?
[15:54] Speaker 2: You know, I redeem all the time. I love, I mean,
[15:57] Speaker 2: the Air France example, because it still exists. Anyone can
[16:00] Speaker 2: book these Air France 60,000 mile rewards. Yeah, I've done it.
[16:04] Speaker 5: Full disclosure.
[16:05] Speaker 2: And I love Air France La Premiere. So if you
[16:08] Speaker 2: have elite status. Oh, please. They pick you up at
[16:10] Speaker 2: the plane in Paris. Are you kidding me? So that's
[16:13] Speaker 2: 350,000 points. That's a splurge. But when you think about it,
[16:16] Speaker 2: I can redeem for Air France La Premiere for less
[16:18] Speaker 2: than what Delta charges business class.
[16:20] Speaker 1: Quick question. What's more valuable, points or cash back?
[16:24] Speaker 2: Points, in my opinion.
[16:25] Speaker 1: I mean, it's more fun for you, but cashback is.
[16:27] Speaker 2: But if you don't want to travel, get cashback. What
[16:29] Speaker 2: I dislike is when people have premium credit cards and
[16:31] Speaker 2: then redeem them for gift cards or statement credit. That
[16:34] Speaker 2: is a losing strategy. If you want gift cards, just
[16:37] Speaker 2: get a 2% cashback card. Don't pay to have a
[16:40] Speaker 2: fancy credit card and then... Redeem those points for Saks
[16:43] Speaker 2: gift cards.
[16:44] Speaker 4: In terms of personal finance, as Scarlett mentioned earlier, Ed
[16:47] Speaker 4: Duffner shops, power shop here at Bloomberg. If he's in
[16:50] Speaker 4: aisle four buying Wagyu beef, he's not using points, you said?
[16:54] Speaker 4: They're not using points for groceries and bases?
[16:57] Speaker 2: Well, I don't think enough. There's a lot of people
[16:59] Speaker 2: on your, you know, there's a lot of points hoarders
[17:00] Speaker 2: out there. I know billionaires with, you know. 20 million
[17:03] Speaker 2: points in an increasing, I would argue to them, just
[17:06] Speaker 2: get a cash back card because there are a lot
[17:08] Speaker 2: of people who hoard points. There is a certain mentality
[17:11] Speaker 2: of let me save them for later.
[17:12] Speaker 5: Right.
[17:12] Speaker 1: And they will devalue.
[17:14] Speaker 2: They will devalue. So if you have too much of
[17:16] Speaker 2: a currency, you're not using switch to cash because 2%
[17:18] Speaker 2: cash back is King. And there are bank of America
[17:21] Speaker 2: has a product. You can get almost 3% back. So,
[17:24] Speaker 2: you know, I think for wealthy travelers, they want to
[17:26] Speaker 2: have that fancy credit card, but a cash back card
[17:28] Speaker 2: would be better financially.
[17:30] Speaker 14: Yeah.
[17:30] Speaker 1: All right, Brian, stay with us.
[17:31] Speaker 6: And later on in the show, we're going to talk
[17:33] Speaker 6: about how teens are starting to invest sooner. And according
[17:35] Speaker 6: to a survey, the top reason is because they just
[17:37] Speaker 6: want to get started as soon as possible.
[17:40] Speaker 1: Compounding. It's all about compounding.
[17:41] Speaker 2: All right.
[17:42] Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Money.
[17:44] Speaker 2: Does Sephora count as investment?
[17:47] Speaker 1: Not for you. Not for me.
[17:52] Speaker 4: You're listening to Bloomberg Money. Stay with us with more
[17:55] Speaker 4: to come after this.
[18:04] Speaker 2: Yes, the fish are real.
[18:05] Speaker 5: Somebody emailed me and said, they're fake fish. I said, no,
[18:08] Speaker 5: they're not.
[18:09] Speaker 4: We have like 400 aquarium around the world or whatever.
[18:13] Speaker 4: Bloomberg Money on Labor Day, a special edition with Scarlett Fu.
[18:17] Speaker 5: Thrilled that you're.
[18:17] Speaker 2: With us today.
[18:18] Speaker 4: And what's so important is after her tearful Olymp-mondieu, her
[18:23] Speaker 4: Olympic coverage at Paris Olympics, Celine Dion's doing it again,
[18:27] Speaker 4: and only Brian Kelly could fly La Premier to Paris
[18:31] Speaker 4: to see Celine.
[18:32] Speaker 2: Celine, you're really doing it. Celine is, funny story, when
[18:35] Speaker 2: I wanted to start The Points Guy, all my friends,
[18:38] Speaker 2: even my parents were like, you can't quit Morgan Stanley.
[18:40] Speaker 2: And I believed in it, I knew I was onto something,
[18:42] Speaker 2: and Celine Dion has a song called Taking Chances, and
[18:44] Speaker 2: I was walking through Times Square.
[18:46] Speaker 13: Oh.
[18:47] Speaker 2: And I listened to the song and I went straight
[18:48] Speaker 2: to my boss and I was like, you know, I
[18:50] Speaker 2: need to take a chance. And I quit my job.
[18:51] Speaker 2: So Celine Dion is the reason why the points guy
[18:53] Speaker 2: is what it is today.
[18:54] Speaker 11: Okay.
[18:55] Speaker 1: You paid for the Celine Dion concert in cash, right?
[18:58] Speaker 1: You didn't use points.
[18:59] Speaker 2: Well, I used a credit card. Always use credit cards.
[19:01] Speaker 2: I never pay cash.
[19:02] Speaker 5: Okay.
[19:02] Speaker 2: Credit cards. And also the Sapphire Reserve has a StubHub credit.
[19:06] Speaker 2: So I've used it twice.
[19:07] Speaker 11: Yes.
[19:08] Speaker 5: Thank you.
[19:08] Speaker 2: Yes. Alex.
[19:10] Speaker 11: Yes.
[19:12] Speaker 2: So, yeah. So, Celine, I will pay all my flights
[19:15] Speaker 2: and hotels are free. So, yeah, I spent big to
[19:17] Speaker 2: be front row center because, you know, this is my
[19:19] Speaker 2: this is my Olympics.
[19:20] Speaker 1: This is your score.
[19:22] Speaker 6: So in 2025, I think you had 28 credit cards.
[19:25] Speaker 6: How many do you have in your wallet?
[19:26] Speaker 2: I have about 30 now. I'm keeping it. I'm keeping it,
[19:29] Speaker 2: you know. I'm not going too crazy. There are people
[19:32] Speaker 2: with over 100 credit cards, by the way.
[19:34] Speaker 1: Do you have a default card?
[19:35] Speaker 2: I do. The Bilt Palladium card. So Bilt, you can
[19:38] Speaker 2: now earn points on your mortgage. I have two mortgages.
[19:41] Speaker 2: And the Bilt Palladium, you get 2X on everything plus
[19:46] Speaker 2: rent or mortgage payment.
[19:47] Speaker 5: Was that through Wells Fargo?
[19:48] Speaker 2: It was. Now it's through... a company called Cardless. Because
[19:53] Speaker 2: when you think about your everyday spend, most credit cards
[19:55] Speaker 2: only give you one point.
[19:56] Speaker 6: Yes.
[19:57] Speaker 2: Back to the whole inflation thing. There are now credit cards...
[19:59] Speaker 2: that allow you to earn so many more points than before.
[20:03] Speaker 2: So the Bill Playdam at 2x on everything is like
[20:06] Speaker 2: my solid go-to.
[20:07] Speaker 4: Not to be Debbie Downer, but I'll be Tom Downer.
[20:09] Speaker 4: Is there a downside to this thing?
[20:11] Speaker 2: I mean, what's your annual fees on 28 credit cards?
[20:15] Speaker 2: Is there a downside where people screw up the Brian
[20:18] Speaker 2: Kelly formula? The downside would be, you know, on your
[20:21] Speaker 2: cards like the Amex Platinum that comes with all these
[20:24] Speaker 2: different credits is if you're not taking advantage. And I
[20:26] Speaker 2: will admit, even with the Sapphire, you get free Apple Music.
[20:30] Speaker 2: And you actually have to go in and click a
[20:32] Speaker 2: single button to link everything. your different accounts, which I
[20:35] Speaker 2: hadn't done. So I hadn't for a couple of the
[20:38] Speaker 2: credits that I thought I was getting. So it takes
[20:40] Speaker 2: a little bit. Um, but I, you know, the 795
[20:43] Speaker 2: on the Sapphire card, I get way more than that
[20:45] Speaker 2: in value a year from the stub hub, from the
[20:47] Speaker 2: travel credit. So, uh, I actually think no annual fee
[20:51] Speaker 2: cards are huge waste. My dad always said cheap is expensive.
[20:54] Speaker 2: So for the people out there who with no annual
[20:56] Speaker 2: fee cards and who are spending a lot, you're actually losing, um, value.
[21:00] Speaker 1: Um, When was the last time you paid full fare
[21:02] Speaker 1: for an airplane flight?
[21:05] Speaker 2: I just, you know, it's funny because I can through,
[21:07] Speaker 2: you know, and I pay for all my travels when
[21:08] Speaker 2: I review airlines. Even though I can, I just still
[21:11] Speaker 2: am like, it's against, but I mean, domestic flights all
[21:14] Speaker 2: often pay, but I'm using the travel portal points, like
[21:18] Speaker 2: Amex points.
[21:19] Speaker 1: You're still gaming it.
[21:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah.
[21:21] Speaker 1: It goes against your grain.
[21:22] Speaker 2: To pay for it, yeah.
[21:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it.
[21:24] Speaker 6: All right, Points Guy, Brian Kelly, thank you so much.
[21:26] Speaker 6: A real pleasure to have you here right before Labor Day,
[21:29] Speaker 6: the three-day weekend. He is a founder of the Points
[21:32] Speaker 6: Guy and author of How to Win at Travel.
[21:37] Speaker 4: I'm on the phone with Dana Telsey. We're checking the
[21:39] Speaker 4: Saturday schedule.
[21:41] Speaker 5: At the U.S.
[21:42] Speaker 2: Open.
[21:42] Speaker 5: So we can see who's wearing Tiffany at the U.S.
[21:45] Speaker 2: Open.
[21:45] Speaker 1: Look at how they can play tennis and wear jewelry.
[21:47] Speaker 4: And some of it's very big. It's not the Tiffany
[21:49] Speaker 4: mortals would buy. It's like big time. But we're both
[21:52] Speaker 4: waiting for the Saturday schedule to come out.
[21:54] Speaker 5: And it hasn't come out yet. It's an outrage.
[21:56] Speaker 10: We're still waiting.
[21:58] Speaker 6: In due time, it will come. Let's get a check
[22:00] Speaker 6: on where things stand. We had a big jobs report today,
[22:02] Speaker 6: much stronger than anticipated. That sent stocks lower because good
[22:07] Speaker 6: bad news or I should say good news is bad
[22:08] Speaker 6: news in the stock market.
[22:09] Speaker 5: Jeff Mason earlier said, why is that, Mike McKee?
[22:12] Speaker 6: Well, the president doesn't understand why that is. And it's
[22:15] Speaker 6: because people think that the Federal Reserve will. perhaps increased
[22:18] Speaker 6: interest rates later this month. You can see the S &
[22:21] Speaker 6: P down about.
[22:22] Speaker 1: A third of 1%.
[22:23] Speaker 6: Consumer discretionary that covers retailers are among the worst.
[22:26] Speaker 4: On that cross asset, the VIX 14.01 is a bull
[22:30] Speaker 4: market statistic just across the equity base.
[22:33] Speaker 2: You know, that's the way it is today. The dollar
[22:35] Speaker 2: 99.10 as well.
[22:36] Speaker 4: It'll be interesting to watch hydrocarbism, particularly as Stacey Vanek-Smith said,
[22:40] Speaker 4: that price of diesel.
[22:42] Speaker 2: In America and worldwide in the next week.
[22:45] Speaker 5: As well.
[22:46] Speaker 2: This is a treat.
[22:47] Speaker 4: It's a special edition, which means only Dana Tulsi can
[22:50] Speaker 4: show up.
[22:51] Speaker 5: CEO, Chief Research Officer.
[22:53] Speaker 2: Tulsi Advisory.
[22:54] Speaker 5: More than anyone I know with her childhood.
[22:57] Speaker 4: She is viscerally attached to 57th Street at Fifth Avenue.
[23:02] Speaker 4: I mean, I just can't say enough about the family
[23:05] Speaker 4: tieback to Bergdorf Goodman and all that. How you doing
[23:08] Speaker 4: and how's American retail doing? How's our aspiration?
[23:12] Speaker 13: Doing well in American retail, frankly, pivoting along, but doing nicely.
[23:16] Speaker 13: We saw some great results out of Victoria's Secret yesterday.
[23:20] Speaker 13: At the same time, Lululemon is obviously falling a lot
[23:23] Speaker 13: today as they have work to do. And then you
[23:25] Speaker 13: saw terrific results out of Abercrombie & Fitch. You have
[23:28] Speaker 13: companies like Oxford Industries who are still working to improve Lulipulitzer.
[23:33] Speaker 10: So for the most part, companies are managing inventory.
[23:36] Speaker 13: They're using marketing and social marketing to drive new customer growth.
[23:41] Speaker 13: And you have companies like Tapestry and Ralph Lauren that
[23:44] Speaker 13: are continuing.
[23:45] Speaker 10: To see more new customer growth and AUR increases.
[23:47] Speaker 2: I've got to give you a victory lap.
[23:49] Speaker 4: The Australian Financial Review magazine wrote an article on the
[23:53] Speaker 4: new Hermes store in London. which is the Dana Telsey story.
[23:57] Speaker 4: Let's bring it up here right now. First of all,
[23:59] Speaker 4: Hermes is struggling now. The stock down, it used to
[24:02] Speaker 4: be it cost five Hermes scarves, and now the price
[24:05] Speaker 4: of a share is three Hermes scarves. But this is
[24:07] Speaker 4: Florian Crane writing up here. In 2011, our point was saying,
[24:13] Speaker 4: if people go to a store, that will be for
[24:15] Speaker 4: a reason. It's not to get the product. The product
[24:18] Speaker 4: will be available on a click. He took that from you.
[24:21] Speaker 4: He stole that concept. You're the one I know who said,
[24:25] Speaker 4: stop panicking. Stores won't die.
[24:27] Speaker 10: Exactly.
[24:28] Speaker 13: And they're not dying. If anything, stores are more relevant
[24:31] Speaker 13: than ever before. You're seeing companies reinvest. Look at companies
[24:34] Speaker 13: like Aritzia, the beautiful stores they have here in New York.
[24:38] Speaker 13: Look at, frankly, look what Bloomingdale's has done. And it's
[24:40] Speaker 13: like a reinvention of what Bloomingdale's used.
[24:43] Speaker 10: To look like.
[24:44] Speaker 13: Social interaction happens in stores. And post-COVID, people want that
[24:49] Speaker 13: more than ever.
[24:50] Speaker 6: The reinvention, though, often pivots to focusing on a premium
[24:54] Speaker 6: customer who wants a premium experience because that premium customer,
[24:57] Speaker 6: their spending is more resilient and that's where the growth is, frankly.
[25:00] Speaker 6: Does that mean that the selection, the opportunities, the options
[25:03] Speaker 6: for the higher income consumer just grows and the options
[25:07] Speaker 6: for the lower income consumer just shrivels?
[25:09] Speaker 10: Well, a couple things.
[25:10] Speaker 13: I mean, I think you're seeing options for even lower-income
[25:13] Speaker 13: consumers in physical retail expand. Look what just opened here
[25:16] Speaker 13: in May. We had the first Primark in New York
[25:19] Speaker 13: City open, and that is a value retailer. The fastest-growing
[25:24] Speaker 13: number of store openings is coming out of.
[25:25] Speaker 10: The off-price retailers. Ross Stores, TJX, Burlington.
[25:29] Speaker 13: You look at Walmart remodeling nearly 600 stores a year.
[25:33] Speaker 13: So I think the pivot point is every type of
[25:36] Speaker 13: retailer is figuring out new ways to capture more traffic.
[25:40] Speaker 6: I want to ask about Shein and fast fashion because
[25:44] Speaker 6: there's a legitimate question here about whether fast fashion is dead.
[25:47] Speaker 6: Shein went public, but it definitely did not time it
[25:50] Speaker 6: right because it should have been a couple of years
[25:51] Speaker 6: ago when the growth was at its peak.
[25:54] Speaker 13: Well, also, I think you have competition. You look what
[25:57] Speaker 13: Zara and Zara's done so well. H & M is
[26:00] Speaker 13: trying to get its groove back. And there are privately
[26:02] Speaker 13: held companies like Addicted, E-D-I-K-T-E-D.
[26:05] Speaker 1: How do you keep track of this?
[26:06] Speaker 10: That's opening stores.
[26:07] Speaker 13: They have one here in the old Scrivener's Bookstore on
[26:09] Speaker 13: Fifth Avenue near Saks on 49th Street that just opened.
[26:12] Speaker 10: We're seeing a ton of traffic.
[26:14] Speaker 4: Within personal finance, retirement, and particularly wealth management, what spans
[26:20] Speaker 4: that is this crazy thing, aspiration. I want to own,
[26:25] Speaker 4: as we mentioned earlier, the Hermes scarf. I'll never own one,
[26:28] Speaker 4: but boy, they're beautiful. I think I'll look at it.
[26:30] Speaker 4: Or people that say, I'm never going to own one
[26:32] Speaker 4: at all, but I'm fascinated. Is our aspiration now the
[26:37] Speaker 4: same as it was 10 years ago or 30 years ago?
[26:40] Speaker 13: I think there will always be aspiration, but what you
[26:42] Speaker 13: aspire is something different.
[26:44] Speaker 10: Today, you just had the points guy on. What are
[26:47] Speaker 10: people doing? Look at the prices at the US Open.
[26:50] Speaker 13: They are very high. So people are basically paying up
[26:54] Speaker 13: for experiences. because experiences create memories. And it could be
[26:58] Speaker 13: memories with purchases, it could be memories with doing. And
[27:01] Speaker 13: I think there's a lot of interest in doing these days.
[27:04] Speaker 6: Which specialty retailers are doing a good job delivering on
[27:07] Speaker 6: that experience, providing that experience to the customer?
[27:10] Speaker 13: I think there are a couple that are doing some
[27:11] Speaker 13: interesting things. Frankly, you look at Ralph Lauren and, frankly,
[27:14] Speaker 13: Ralph's Coffee, you have lines there. They're creating that experience
[27:18] Speaker 13: that's exciting. Frankly, you look at Zara, which has something
[27:21] Speaker 13: new all the time, it creates a destination. Sephora, there
[27:25] Speaker 13: are crowds to get in the Sephora stores. So it
[27:28] Speaker 13: blends product and experience at the same time.
[27:31] Speaker 4: A joke at the house is the daily Sephora. What
[27:34] Speaker 4: they do is they bring the price down and go
[27:36] Speaker 4: every day. And I see it on the Visa run. Okay,
[27:39] Speaker 4: let's go to the open because you and I are fans.
[27:41] Speaker 4: We're getting scarlet into this as well. The dream is
[27:44] Speaker 4: to get Alex Ayala. to play Coco, and there you've
[27:48] Speaker 4: got Nike playing New Balance, and who in God's name
[27:51] Speaker 4: knows what jewelry they're wearing. Talk about the aspirational luxury
[27:57] Speaker 4: of most of the women, to be honest, draped at
[28:00] Speaker 4: the US Open.
[28:01] Speaker 5: The money's, it's millions, right?
[28:03] Speaker 13: It is millions, but also you're creating style trends. Look
[28:06] Speaker 13: what Sabalenka's wearing. Everyone looks every day. What is Osaka
[28:11] Speaker 13: wearing every day when she walks in the match? It's
[28:13] Speaker 13: something new and different. So yes, it's become fashion and
[28:17] Speaker 13: function at the same time.
[28:18] Speaker 5: Is Arno winning at that?
[28:20] Speaker 10: I think he plays a big game in it. He wins.
[28:22] Speaker 13: Ralph Lauren wins at it. Frankly, Nike also wins at that, too.
[28:27] Speaker 6: So when Tom said you were out front and saying
[28:29] Speaker 6: that stores were not dead, it's not just stores anymore.
[28:31] Speaker 6: It's the venue for people to see the products available.
[28:35] Speaker 6: But it's also at events like the U.S.
[28:37] Speaker 9: Open.
[28:37] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[28:38] Speaker 10: It is at events. And frankly, you look at what
[28:40] Speaker 10: stores are doing these days.
[28:41] Speaker 13: Whether they're creating styling sessions and bring your friend, whether
[28:45] Speaker 13: they're introducing you to a new designer, there's a.
[28:48] Speaker 10: Reason to go.
[28:50] Speaker 13: And frankly, every time you have a reason to go,
[28:52] Speaker 13: it's a click, click, because you're buying one thing, but oh,
[28:55] Speaker 13: I didn't know I needed that, I'll buy that too.
[28:57] Speaker 5: Your heart and soul is Bergdorf.
[28:59] Speaker 11: Yes.
[29:00] Speaker 5: How does Bergdorf survive?
[29:02] Speaker 2: Out of the world.
[29:03] Speaker 5: London, Bergdorf, Printemps, and Paris. How do they survive?
[29:07] Speaker 2: Service.
[29:08] Speaker 13: The service that they have is differentiated than others. They
[29:11] Speaker 13: build relationships with their customers. They know their closets. And
[29:15] Speaker 13: they can talk to them first, talk to them fast,
[29:17] Speaker 13: and get them to the store.
[29:19] Speaker 4: You just heard there, folks, is classic Dana Telsey back
[29:22] Speaker 4: to Bear Stearns.
[29:23] Speaker 5: Scarlett, they know their closets.
[29:25] Speaker 2: They know.
[29:27] Speaker 1: They know their customers, too.
[29:29] Speaker 6: I'm curious as to these frictionless payment systems that have
[29:32] Speaker 6: been introduced and rolled out, Apple Pay, Google Pay, all
[29:34] Speaker 6: of that. How do you see that changing consumer spending habits,
[29:37] Speaker 6: the way we spend?
[29:39] Speaker 1: What are retailers doing?
[29:40] Speaker 6: To adapt to these new payment methods, and do we
[29:43] Speaker 6: actually spend more because it's frictionless?
[29:45] Speaker 10: Some of that, but the other thing it gives retailers, data.
[29:48] Speaker 13: It gives them data on what the customer is buying,
[29:51] Speaker 13: when they're buying, where they're buying, so they know more
[29:54] Speaker 13: about their customer that they can curate the assortments. Frictionless
[29:57] Speaker 13: payments is becoming standard right now. Look at how we all,
[30:01] Speaker 13: whether you take a train, whether you pay for something,
[30:04] Speaker 13: it's just tap and go.
[30:06] Speaker 10: And that's become, frankly, normal cost of business.
[30:10] Speaker 4: Joseph Feldman emails in. He says, ask a Joe Feldman question.
[30:15] Speaker 4: Joe's wonderful. He works with Dana on the big box.
[30:18] Speaker 4: Why is Walmart trading at 40 times earnings? I still
[30:21] Speaker 4: don't get it.
[30:22] Speaker 13: Well, why Walmart trades that way is because look at
[30:24] Speaker 13: the growth opportunities. Walmart's become a modern technology company, too.
[30:28] Speaker 13: Look at their ability to capture all income levels. And frankly,
[30:33] Speaker 13: you look at what they have, a global space in
[30:36] Speaker 13: order to be able to.
[30:37] Speaker 2: And the other thing in.
[30:37] Speaker 4: Terms of Bloomberg money and personal finance, how many millionaires
[30:42] Speaker 4: has Bentonville made?
[30:43] Speaker 10: A lot of millionaires. And Bentonville is a nice place
[30:46] Speaker 10: to live.
[30:46] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[30:48] Speaker 6: How's Walmart doing with capturing the premium customer as well
[30:51] Speaker 6: as holding on to.
[30:52] Speaker 1: Its core customer?
[30:53] Speaker 13: Look at the biggest growth for Walmart is coming from
[30:55] Speaker 13: higher income consumers. And that ability for them to see
[30:58] Speaker 13: relevance there is exciting.
[31:02] Speaker 1: All right, Dana Telsey, thank you so much.
[31:03] Speaker 10: Thank you for having me.
[31:04] Speaker 1: Really appreciate it.
[31:04] Speaker 6: Dana Telsey, CEO and Chief Research Officer at Telsey Advisory Group.
[31:09] Speaker 6: All right, Labor Day weekend means end of summer, which
[31:11] Speaker 6: means back to school here in New York. I visited
[31:14] Speaker 6: the campus of SUNY Purchase and spoke with a student
[31:16] Speaker 6: on just how he's paying for college.
[31:19] Speaker 4: Okay.
[31:20] Speaker 14: Originally, it was like 30K a year. I got it
[31:25] Speaker 14: down to like $ 1, 500. It took a lot of time.
[31:30] Speaker 14: Financial aid and working at the same time. It was
[31:34] Speaker 14: very tough.
[31:39] Speaker 4: You're listening to Bloomberg Money. Stay with us with more
[31:42] Speaker 4: to come after this.
[31:52] Speaker 6: Bloomberg Money is your new destination for personal finance. It's
[31:55] Speaker 6: a cross-platform effort that extends beyond television because it's our
[31:58] Speaker 6: new digital hub at Bloomberg.com slash money. And one of
[32:02] Speaker 6: the stories featured this week is about parents opening brokerage
[32:05] Speaker 6: accounts for their teens to learn the basics of investing. Fidelity,
[32:09] Speaker 6: Schwab and other firms have noticed and they're rolling out
[32:11] Speaker 6: products to target this demo to lock in a new
[32:14] Speaker 6: generation of customers and investors. Josiana Joshua reported on this
[32:18] Speaker 6: and joins us now to discuss. You talked to a
[32:20] Speaker 6: bunch of these parents and teens. What did they tell you?
[32:23] Speaker 12: Yeah, so the teens are excited to get into it.
[32:26] Speaker 12: They're very excited to get invested. They're very excited to
[32:28] Speaker 12: do the research. They're excited to see the gains as well,
[32:31] Speaker 12: of course. And the parents are kind of worried about
[32:33] Speaker 12: what the economy is going to look like when they
[32:35] Speaker 12: get older. So they're like nice, excited to have this
[32:38] Speaker 12: as a backbone for them.
[32:39] Speaker 2: This is separate from day trading with a.
[32:41] Speaker 5: Laptop off a couch.
[32:42] Speaker 1: Yes, it's much separate.
[32:44] Speaker 4: Lisa Mateo's kids, they're just power. They're like the president,
[32:48] Speaker 4: a thousand trades a day.
[32:49] Speaker 6: It feels like they're a little bit ahead on this.
[32:51] Speaker 6: But the motivation for a lot of parents wanting to
[32:54] Speaker 6: start their kids on investing early is because they feel
[32:57] Speaker 6: like they didn't.
[32:58] Speaker 1: Do that themselves.
[32:59] Speaker 12: Yeah, so it's really trying to get the time, behind
[33:01] Speaker 12: the time. Like the time is what they want to
[33:03] Speaker 12: get on. Parents feel like they didn't have the time
[33:05] Speaker 12: as well.
[33:05] Speaker 1: They kind of started a little bit late.
[33:07] Speaker 12: So they're trying to get that compounding interest to grow
[33:10] Speaker 12: and make sure their kids have the best head start
[33:11] Speaker 12: that they can.
[33:12] Speaker 6: And are these kids investing in big tech names and ETFs?
[33:15] Speaker 1: What are they buying?
[33:16] Speaker 12: Yeah, so according to Schwab, I spoke to Schwab's Fisher
[33:19] Speaker 12: for the story, they're mostly focusing in on single stocks.
[33:23] Speaker 12: Some of them are also going into ETFs, but the
[33:25] Speaker 12: big tech names are really attractive to them. It's Apple, Amazon, Google,
[33:28] Speaker 12: all the ones that you hear on the headlines every day.
[33:30] Speaker 4: Did you and your research do anything on the joy
[33:33] Speaker 4: of learning to lose money?
[33:35] Speaker 5: To me, that's the number one gift.
[33:37] Speaker 3: The joy?
[33:38] Speaker 5: The joy of losing money.
[33:40] Speaker 4: I lost money on Westinghouse options when I couldn't shave
[33:43] Speaker 4: once a week.
[33:44] Speaker 5: Interesting.
[33:44] Speaker 2: And you learn how to lose money.
[33:46] Speaker 12: Yeah, we talked to a financial therapist who was like,
[33:48] Speaker 12: it's really important for them to learn the difference between
[33:51] Speaker 12: losing money and making a bad choice.
[33:53] Speaker 1: It's part of their identity.
[33:55] Speaker 2: Lisa Bramowitz is my financial therapist.
[33:59] Speaker 6: My cousin is my financial advisor. Josiana, thank you so
[34:02] Speaker 6: much for bringing us this story. Josiana Joshua of Bloomberg News. Now,
[34:05] Speaker 6: one of the biggest expenses for families is, of course, college.
[34:09] Speaker 6: Last August, or I should say late August and early September,
[34:11] Speaker 6: is all about move-in day. So I visited the campus
[34:14] Speaker 6: of SUNY Purchase, known for its drama and performing arts program.
[34:17] Speaker 6: And I spoke with the president, Michael Stiper, along with
[34:19] Speaker 6: students and parents about the challenges they all face.
[34:23] Speaker 3: So right now, some of the biggest issues facing higher
[34:26] Speaker 3: education relate to the value proposition that students and their
[34:30] Speaker 3: families are really considering when they're choosing a college and
[34:33] Speaker 3: even choosing to go to college at all.
[34:36] Speaker 6: Choosing to go to college at all, that comes up
[34:37] Speaker 6: a lot. A lot of families, students in particular, are saying,
[34:41] Speaker 6: is a four-year college degree worth it?
[34:43] Speaker 1: How do you talk them through that?
[34:45] Speaker 5: Sure.
[34:45] Speaker 3: So for the vast majority of students, it is very
[34:49] Speaker 3: worthwhile for them to complete a four-year degree. Now, a
[34:52] Speaker 3: key word there is complete that four-year degree because it's
[34:55] Speaker 3: essential when students start college that they finish college. Because
[34:58] Speaker 3: students with a degree in hand, they perform better in
[35:01] Speaker 3: the job market, they live longer, healthier lives, and they're
[35:05] Speaker 3: engaged citizens. So we think for those reasons, it's a
[35:08] Speaker 3: great choice to go to college. But again, the most
[35:11] Speaker 3: important thing to do is to go to a college
[35:13] Speaker 3: that fits you and a college that you will complete.
[35:17] Speaker 6: And also a big consideration is a college that you
[35:19] Speaker 6: can afford. How are you seeing rising costs impact your campus?
[35:24] Speaker 2: Well, what I see is.
[35:25] Speaker 3: That more and more parents and families are considering public
[35:29] Speaker 3: higher education. We see across the SUNY system increases in
[35:32] Speaker 3: enrollment year over year over year. And I think that's
[35:36] Speaker 3: indicative of people deciding that cost is a big consideration.
[35:40] Speaker 3: And I see more students and their families talking about
[35:43] Speaker 3: the cost and how SUNY Purchase, which has a very,
[35:46] Speaker 3: very affordable price point, how that is a big part
[35:51] Speaker 3: of their choice. And what we're able to do here
[35:54] Speaker 3: is say that you don't have to choose a campus
[35:58] Speaker 3: with an expensive price tag to get a fantastic experience.
[36:02] Speaker 6: So the rising cost of a college education has been
[36:05] Speaker 6: something that people have been grappling with for a decade now,
[36:08] Speaker 6: if not more. How has that evolved during your time
[36:11] Speaker 6: in leadership in higher education?
[36:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely it continues to be a challenge. At SUNY,
[36:16] Speaker 3: we've kept tuition pretty flat for quite a few years,
[36:20] Speaker 3: but more and more parents are looking more widely at
[36:24] Speaker 3: different campus options. You know, one of the things that's
[36:27] Speaker 3: fantastic about American higher education is there are so many
[36:31] Speaker 3: different options, so many different choices, public, private, two-year schools,
[36:34] Speaker 3: four-year schools throughout the nation. And it used to be
[36:38] Speaker 3: just about the most selective, the best. And now I'm
[36:41] Speaker 3: seeing more parents consider different factors that play into that,
[36:45] Speaker 3: along with academic excellence. Part of it that families need
[36:49] Speaker 3: to consider more is how much debt their students will
[36:51] Speaker 3: be leaving college with. And I think that is a
[36:55] Speaker 3: factor that people need to consider because A lot of
[36:58] Speaker 3: students today are planning not only on just a four-year degree,
[37:02] Speaker 3: but on further degrees, whether it's medicine or law or
[37:05] Speaker 3: graduate school or something of that sort. So thinking about
[37:10] Speaker 3: how much debt you're leaving your four-year degree with, and
[37:12] Speaker 3: here at SUNY Purchase, it's typically less than $ 25, 000.
[37:15] Speaker 6: That's the view from the college president, but I also
[37:19] Speaker 6: wanted to hear directly from the students and parents at
[37:22] Speaker 6: Move-In Day. Everyone I spoke with had a different plan
[37:25] Speaker 6: on how to pay for college.
[37:27] Speaker 11: Out-of-state tuition is definitely a lot. So I took out
[37:31] Speaker 11: some student loans and was able to do that pretty easily.
[37:35] Speaker 11: And I also put on like my own fundraising show.
[37:39] Speaker 11: Like I produced my own show to raise money to
[37:42] Speaker 11: come to college.
[37:43] Speaker 4: So yeah.
[37:44] Speaker 1: How much did you raise from that? About $ 3, 500.
[37:47] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[37:47] Speaker 11: Is this something.
[37:48] Speaker 1: You're going to be doing regularly, you think?
[37:51] Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm planning actually on doing it every year in
[37:53] Speaker 11: my hometown since it was so successful. So it like
[37:56] Speaker 11: kind of helps me like build my own scholarship fund
[37:58] Speaker 11: a little bit.
[37:59] Speaker 15: I have a love for art and love for sculpture,
[38:01] Speaker 15: but I just know it wasn't feasibly possible for me
[38:04] Speaker 15: to do that as a career since I am low income.
[38:09] Speaker 15: So that's why I chose political science and law and
[38:11] Speaker 15: justice because I could go down that law school track.
[38:14] Speaker 16: I'm a teacher, so very big on education. So it's
[38:18] Speaker 16: worth it for me to spend your money on that.
[38:21] Speaker 16: So you have to start planning early. and try not
[38:25] Speaker 16: to put yourself in too much of a hole debt-wise,
[38:27] Speaker 16: but you do the best you can.
[38:30] Speaker 17: About 18,000 or so just to live on campus. So that,
[38:35] Speaker 17: I think the tuition, state tuition is about seven. So altogether,
[38:38] Speaker 17: it's like 32,000 majority of that is boarding. So that
[38:42] Speaker 17: did make, it was just like a wow factor to
[38:44] Speaker 17: see how much it costs to board and the eating packages,
[38:48] Speaker 17: 3,700 and some change, you know, per semester just to
[38:52] Speaker 17: be able to feed your kids.
[38:54] Speaker 1: I'm a first-generation student.
[38:56] Speaker 18: I get free housing being an RA, so because of that,
[39:00] Speaker 18: now I don't have to pay for anything in school
[39:02] Speaker 18: at all with FAFSA and TAP.
[39:06] Speaker 1: Did you have to take out any loans to attend school?
[39:08] Speaker 18: For my first year, I did, but once I became
[39:10] Speaker 18: an RA, I didn't have to take out any more loans,
[39:13] Speaker 18: so now I've been paying them back.
[39:15] Speaker 2: We've been saving for a while.
[39:16] Speaker 7: We have an education savings program, and the balance we're
[39:21] Speaker 7: paying for is okay.
[39:23] Speaker 1: Has that affected your retirement plan? We're never going to retire.
[39:27] Speaker 10: That's madness.
[39:28] Speaker 6: That was my conversation with SUNY Purchase President Michael Saper
[39:33] Speaker 6: along with some parents and students on move-in day. They're
[39:36] Speaker 6: still dealing with the sticker shock of tuition.
[39:38] Speaker 4: That was a breath of fresh air because we do
[39:40] Speaker 4: all this Bloomberg elite stuff that we do every single day.
[39:43] Speaker 4: Personal finance, retirement, all in SUNY Purchase is $ 24, 000, maybe $ 26, 000.
[39:50] Speaker 4: And there's so many people that can't make that nut.
[39:53] Speaker 4: And it's like the old days when our parents, I mean,
[39:56] Speaker 4: you're too young to remember this, but they worked their
[39:59] Speaker 4: way through college.
[40:00] Speaker 6: Yeah, that's not possible anymore when you have tuition and
[40:03] Speaker 6: boarding going up to almost $ 100, 000 a year.
[40:04] Speaker 5: You look at the fancy.
[40:06] Speaker 4: People, the idiocy of 90, 100,000 a year. And the
[40:10] Speaker 4: real world is what you just did at Purchase. I mean,
[40:13] Speaker 4: that's the real world.
[40:14] Speaker 6: I mean, what the universities will say is that the
[40:17] Speaker 6: sticker price is different from what people actually pay, but
[40:20] Speaker 6: there's no people paying the sticker price.
[40:21] Speaker 5: People are still paying. We used to call that in
[40:23] Speaker 5: the old days, dear, full boat.
[40:25] Speaker 3: Yes.
[40:26] Speaker 5: Full boat.
[40:26] Speaker 6: Well, a lot of international students were paying the full boat,
[40:28] Speaker 6: and they're not coming into the country anymore.
[40:31] Speaker 4: And then there's the misty-eyed look of dropping the offspring
[40:36] Speaker 4: off to school. The photos are out on social media
[40:39] Speaker 4: and it's the father who can barely contain himself.
[40:43] Speaker 2: The daughter's like, when is mom leaving?
[40:46] Speaker 6: That's Lisa Mateo right there dropping off her daughter at
[40:49] Speaker 6: school this past weekend.
[40:50] Speaker 5: It's just too emotional.
[40:52] Speaker 4: Bloomberg Money, a special edition, which means Lisa Mateo's here.
[40:55] Speaker 4: What's going to be interesting here, SUNY purchased with your
[40:58] Speaker 4: wonderful package you just.
[40:59] Speaker 5: Did, $ 30, 000, $ 40, 000, $ 50, 000.
[40:59] Speaker 2: Scranton, $ 75, 000 all in, which is only $ 25, 000 under.
[41:01] Speaker 5: Say, NYU or high above Cayuga's waters.
[41:10] Speaker 6: It was, and Lisa Mattel lived to come back and
[41:13] Speaker 6: tell us about it. You dropped off your daughter at school.
[41:15] Speaker 6: That must have been a hard goodbye.
[41:17] Speaker 19: It was hard, but she's not too far, which makes
[41:20] Speaker 19: it a little easier. But you're talking about the college,
[41:23] Speaker 19: like the college tuition, how much everything costs.
[41:26] Speaker 2: It's ridiculous.
[41:28] Speaker 1: It's incredible.
[41:29] Speaker 19: And what parents are trying to do to do this.
[41:31] Speaker 19: I mean, we had an article out today about how
[41:33] Speaker 19: more parents and kids, they're joining the military in order
[41:37] Speaker 19: to help pay for some of this. I mean, this
[41:38] Speaker 19: is something that I'm living. I have a son in
[41:40] Speaker 19: the National Guard. My daughter's deciding to join ROTC. Like,
[41:43] Speaker 19: these are the measures that we're going to. And it's
[41:46] Speaker 19: hard as a parent to take that into consideration because
[41:49] Speaker 19: of the atmosphere that we're living in now.
[41:51] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[41:52] Speaker 19: But it just goes to show you what families are
[41:55] Speaker 19: doing in order to be able to pay for this.
[41:57] Speaker 4: You got a multi-million dollar study on University of Alabama sororities.
[42:03] Speaker 4: We did that with Lisa a couple weeks ago. Is
[42:06] Speaker 4: young Miss Mateo going to join a sorority?
[42:08] Speaker 10: Here's the good news.
[42:10] Speaker 19: Scranton does not have sororities.
[42:13] Speaker 1: So you don't have to pay a consultant.
[42:14] Speaker 2: No, I don't have to pay that.
[42:15] Speaker 10: But what you do have to pay the room is
[42:17] Speaker 10: for the dorm room.
[42:18] Speaker 19: Girls go out of their mind to decorate their dorm rooms.
[42:21] Speaker 10: Can I just tell you?
[42:23] Speaker 19: Between the bedding and the decorations and all, because they
[42:26] Speaker 19: need the new beauty products.
[42:27] Speaker 1: They can't use the old ones.
[42:29] Speaker 10: So they need all new stuff. I mean, it's incredible
[42:31] Speaker 10: all the stuff that you can forget.
[42:32] Speaker 1: This is where Wayfair and Bed Bath & Beyond come
[42:34] Speaker 1: into the picture. It is crazy.
[42:36] Speaker 10: It is crazy.
[42:37] Speaker 2: It is crazy.
[42:38] Speaker 10: But it's been a journey, and it's a fun one, too.
[42:40] Speaker 2: All right.
[42:40] Speaker 1: Well, congratulations to you.
[42:41] Speaker 14: Yes.
[42:41] Speaker 6: And I know you have now some time to spend
[42:44] Speaker 6: on other things. Are you going to be going to
[42:46] Speaker 6: the U.S.
[42:46] Speaker 5: Open?
[42:47] Speaker 19: I wish I could, but I can't afford that right now.
[42:51] Speaker 10: Well, you know what?
[42:51] Speaker 19: The ticket's on top of that. But the price of
[42:53] Speaker 19: the food and the drinks, and that is what is...
[42:56] Speaker 19: going crazy out there. I mean, you have people going
[42:58] Speaker 19: to these, right? It's not just tennis fans, it's foodies,
[43:01] Speaker 19: it's influencers.
[43:02] Speaker 10: It's all these people who.
[43:03] Speaker 19: Want to get their hands on, you know, the honeydews.
[43:06] Speaker 19: It's 23 bucks. They sold hundreds of thousands of them
[43:10] Speaker 19: last time. It's basically vodka, lemonade, and three melon balls
[43:14] Speaker 19: kind of in a glass there. It looks good, but
[43:17] Speaker 19: that's not the only thing.
[43:18] Speaker 1: Okay.
[43:19] Speaker 19: So that one's been going, you have Taylor Swift, holding
[43:21] Speaker 19: them that's tom's friend you know just going out and
[43:24] Speaker 19: taking pictures with them all these celebrities bruce springsteen um
[43:27] Speaker 19: then they have the merch to go with it so
[43:29] Speaker 19: you can't just get the merch you got to get
[43:31] Speaker 19: the towel it's a t-shirt you have to get the
[43:33] Speaker 19: honey deuce sweatshirt you have to get the honey deuce
[43:35] Speaker 19: melon baller it's a whole thing and the food tom
[43:39] Speaker 19: you're gonna love this 100 gluten-free chicken nuggets with caviar.
[43:45] Speaker 2: Those I missed. Those you missed.
[43:47] Speaker 10: It's from Cocoa Dot.
[43:48] Speaker 1: You can make it up this weekend.
[43:49] Speaker 2: We're hoping Alexiala against Cocoa Grift. That would be great.
[43:54] Speaker 6: Lisa Mateo, thank you so much, of course. And be
[43:56] Speaker 6: sure to watch Bloomberg this weekend. Lisa is on every
[43:59] Speaker 6: Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7 a.m.
[44:01] Speaker 1: Eastern time.
[44:03] Speaker 2: That is it.
[44:03] Speaker 4: It's a special edition for your long weekend as the
[44:06] Speaker 4: nation celebrates Labor Day.
[44:09] Speaker 5: Bloomberg Money.
[44:14] Speaker 4: This is the Bloomberg Money Podcast, bringing you a smart
[44:17] Speaker 4: look at the forces shaping your financial life. I'm Tom
[44:21] Speaker 4: Keen with Scarlett Fu. You can watch the show live
[44:25] Speaker 4: on Bloomberg TV every Friday at noon Wall Street time.
[44:29] Speaker 4: Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
[44:33] Speaker 4: And as always, on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg
[44:37] Speaker 4: Business app.
[44:43] Speaker 11: Thank you.

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