# Palantir Jumps After ‘Otherworldly Demand Lifts Outlook

An episode of [Bloomberg Intelligence](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/326301337), 4 Aug 2026, 22 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/7f534b8c-9e91-429a-b102-ae3c00090c6d/b137fbfd-b413-4407-b878-b49c0114b43e/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=0ad812bf-fd15-4012-a18c-ae3c00090c76

Watch Paul and Scarlet LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF. Bloomberg Intelligence hosted by Paul Sweeney and Scarlet Fu -Mandeep Singh, Global Head of Tech Research for Bloomberg Intelligence, discusses top tech stories. Palantir Technologies Inc. shares jumped after the company boosted full-year revenue and income forecasts and described commercial demand for its data analytics tools as “otherworldly.” Separately, Anthropic has struck a deal for computing capacity from Volta Infra Holdings, a months-old infrastructure startup, to keep pace with demand for its products. -Michael Halen, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Restaurant and Foodservice Analyst, discusses McDonald's earnings. McDonald's named Skye Anderson as president of its US business to lead turnaround efforts after posting its slowest growth in over a year. Sales at established US restaurants rose 0.8% in the second quarter, partly offset by a decline in visits, and marketing programs didn't meet expectations. -Christopher Ciolino, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior US Machinery Analyst, recaps Carterpillar earnings. Caterpillar reported stronger sales across its businesses and raised its sales outlook, easing concerns that demand for power-generation equipment was beginning to cool. The company's power and energy unit has grown to become its largest by sales, driven by demand for generators, engines, and gas turbines for industrial facilities and large-scale computing centers. Sam Fazeli, Bloomberg Intelligence, Director of Research: Healthcare, Defence, Industrials & Auto, discusses the latest in the biotech sector. Pfizer raised the midpoint of its 2026 sales forecast after reporting strong second-quarter demand for older medicines, with sales for the year expected to be $60.5 billion to $62.5 billion. Merck & Co. boosted its 2026 sales outlook after strong demand for newer drugs like Winrevair helped to drive revenues higher in the second quarter. BioNTech SE lowered its revenue outlook as demand for its Covid-19 vaccine shrank more than expected. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
[0:10] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am
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[0:21] Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
[0:24] Speaker 2: Again, I'm just looking.
[0:25] Speaker 3: I'm not.
[0:25] Speaker 4: I don't really know Palenteer technologies that well, but the
[0:28] Speaker 4: shares jump by the most almost sixteen months after the
[0:31] Speaker 4: company boosted four year revenue and income forecast as described
[0:34] Speaker 4: and described commercial demand for its data analytics tools as
[0:37] Speaker 4: quote otherworldly. I don't know, so I know man deep
[0:40] Speaker 4: seeing those he covers all this tech stuff for Bloomberg Intelligence. Bendy,
[0:44] Speaker 4: can you just briefly describe what Palenteer is and what
[0:47] Speaker 4: you took away from their earnings last night.
[0:50] Speaker 5: I mean, this is a company pre AI before LMS
[0:54] Speaker 5: came to the scene, and they have done a lot
[0:57] Speaker 5: of customized work for government, ment entities, large defense companies
[1:03] Speaker 5: where it helps make sense of big data. Basically, it
[1:07] Speaker 5: goes back to that big data days where are those
[1:11] Speaker 5: dealing with large amounts of data. They can help you
[1:14] Speaker 5: create a pretty dashboard that can you know, give you
[1:17] Speaker 5: the insights from unstructured data. Now, with all the LMS
[1:22] Speaker 5: coming to this scene, they clearly have made a pivot
[1:26] Speaker 5: towards incorporating LMS as part of the solution. And what
[1:31] Speaker 5: we have seen is accelerating growth over the last thirteen quarter.
[1:36] Speaker 5: So this is the thirteenth consecutive quarter of top line acceleration.
[1:41] Speaker 5: And you know, ninety three percent growth is very impressive
[1:44] Speaker 5: for a software company. But when I look at, you know,
[1:48] Speaker 5: the customer base, we're talking about thousand customers, so it's
[1:53] Speaker 5: very high. SP's very high monetization at their customer base, which,
[1:58] Speaker 5: like I said, half of this is coming from the government.
[2:02] Speaker 5: And so from that perspective, a typical enterprise company like
[2:06] Speaker 5: Microsoft has got over one hundred thousand customers. Even a
[2:09] Speaker 5: Snowflake or data Bricks has got twenty thousand plus customers.
[2:14] Speaker 5: Talenteer is just catering to thousand customers. And that's the
[2:18] Speaker 5: real risk for me when I look at the growth
[2:20] Speaker 5: tragictory next couple of years.
[2:23] Speaker 6: So you're saying that's a source of fragility rather than
[2:25] Speaker 6: a source of strength for Palenteer.
[2:28] Speaker 2: What could disrupt that? I mean, does that make it
[2:30] Speaker 2: a Palenter more vulnerable to a competitor coming in.
[2:33] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[2:34] Speaker 5: I mean the fact that the CEO has been so
[2:36] Speaker 5: vocal about Inthropic and open Ai and how suddenly, out
[2:40] Speaker 5: of all the companies, Palenteer is supporting open source. I mean,
[2:45] Speaker 5: this is a company that has benefited greatly from selling
[2:48] Speaker 5: a proprietary solution and now it's coming out and being
[2:52] Speaker 5: so vocal about open source support.
[2:54] Speaker 7: So that I think.
[2:55] Speaker 5: Gives you an indication that they do see the competition
[2:59] Speaker 5: coming from the likes of open ai and Tropic.
[3:02] Speaker 7: As well as the hyperscalers.
[3:04] Speaker 5: I mean, what Palenteer did really well was they have
[3:07] Speaker 5: this concept called FDE forver deployed engineers that were part
[3:12] Speaker 5: of their employee base. So when you're installing a solution,
[3:16] Speaker 5: the FDEs actually help you get there faster. And now
[3:21] Speaker 5: all of these companies, whether it's Microsoft, Amazon, they have
[3:24] Speaker 5: this FDE team that they are using to deploy their
[3:28] Speaker 5: own lms. So I think competition.
[3:32] Speaker 7: Wise, I feel there will.
[3:34] Speaker 5: Be more competition from Palenteer and they can see that,
[3:37] Speaker 5: which is why they are being so vocal with open
[3:40] Speaker 5: weight support. And I mean the growth trajectory they guide
[3:44] Speaker 5: it to increase top line growth, So it was a
[3:47] Speaker 5: bat and raise quarterer. But to my mind, the growth
[3:50] Speaker 5: rates will normalize and that's where the higher valuation kind
[3:54] Speaker 5: of creates a risk.
[3:55] Speaker 4: You mentioned Anthropic as we're looking for potential IPO maybe
[3:59] Speaker 4: later this year year, Bloomberg News has got a story
[4:02] Speaker 4: that Anthropic has struck a ten billion dollars deal for
[4:04] Speaker 4: computing capacity from a month's old infrastructure startup okay, making
[4:11] Speaker 4: the cloudmaker's latest effort to keep pace with demand for
[4:13] Speaker 4: its products.
[4:14] Speaker 2: What is that all about?
[4:16] Speaker 5: I mean right now and Tropic is just getting compute
[4:19] Speaker 5: from wherever they can, whether it's SpaceX or Meta or
[4:24] Speaker 5: you know these In this case, this small company bitcoin
[4:27] Speaker 5: mining company that has compute to.
[4:28] Speaker 4: Hold on, hold on a bitcoin mining company is now
[4:32] Speaker 4: providing compute for an AI play.
[4:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, because at the end it's a data center.
[4:37] Speaker 6: That's the dream for these coin mining companies wants they
[4:40] Speaker 6: make the transition.
[4:41] Speaker 5: I mean, compute is agnostic off where you know that
[4:46] Speaker 5: data center is set up, what purpose it was used
[4:50] Speaker 5: for in the past, It doesn't matter. Compute is you
[4:53] Speaker 5: neque processing capability with life power connected to a grid.
[4:58] Speaker 4: That's all you can And just to be clear, we
[4:59] Speaker 4: never use the term compute before, did we not?
[5:02] Speaker 2: In that way?
[5:03] Speaker 4: We used as a verb, Yes, we would never said
[5:05] Speaker 4: as a noun. Yeah, right, See, I just want to
[5:08] Speaker 4: make sure I'm calling you. Just check people out on
[5:10] Speaker 4: some of this stuff.
[5:11] Speaker 2: Well, they make up a lot of words, they do.
[5:13] Speaker 4: You know, I need more compute?
[5:15] Speaker 2: Is that what you all these alms?
[5:17] Speaker 5: Net? If you listen to any conference they are on,
[5:21] Speaker 5: they'll tell you the world needs ten times fifty times
[5:25] Speaker 5: more compute than currently available.
[5:28] Speaker 2: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
[5:35] Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
[5:39] Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Coplay and Android
[5:42] Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
[5:45] Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
[5:49] Speaker 6: It is, of course the thick of earning season, and
[5:51] Speaker 6: this morning we got indication from McDonald's that US sales
[5:56] Speaker 6: perhaps not living up to what was promised or what
[5:58] Speaker 6: was expected. Sales in the US coming in a little
[6:02] Speaker 6: bit lighter than anticipated. Michael Halen is our senior restaurant
[6:05] Speaker 6: and food service analysts enjoys US in studio.
[6:08] Speaker 2: So Michael I thought McDonald's.
[6:10] Speaker 6: Was one of the companies that would benefit from consumers
[6:12] Speaker 6: seeking value, seeking perhaps lower cost and more convenient food options.
[6:19] Speaker 6: And it certainly looked that way in quarters past. What
[6:21] Speaker 6: happened this last quarter.
[6:23] Speaker 8: Yeah, so last year they did a good job of
[6:25] Speaker 8: re establishing themselves as the value leader.
[6:29] Speaker 7: They were also lapping really weak comps due to E.
[6:32] Speaker 8: Coli, and so as a result, they had very strong
[6:36] Speaker 8: results last year.
[6:38] Speaker 7: This year, we thought it was.
[6:40] Speaker 8: We didn't think it was a great idea to just
[6:42] Speaker 8: try to lap these really strong comps with just value
[6:46] Speaker 8: A B. They kind of screwed up the whole value thing.
[6:49] Speaker 8: They pulled the bogos buy one, get one offers, they
[6:54] Speaker 8: took away a lot of discounts on the app which
[6:57] Speaker 8: their lower income consumers use all the time, and they
[7:00] Speaker 8: pushed a ten items for three dollars menu that kind
[7:05] Speaker 8: of fell flat. And so all of those changes that
[7:08] Speaker 8: happening that happened to actually created an increase of prices
[7:14] Speaker 8: for their their consumers. So, you know, that, paired with
[7:18] Speaker 8: a tough year over year comparison, you know, showed up
[7:21] Speaker 8: in their results today.
[7:23] Speaker 4: The company is embarking on a multi year plan to
[7:26] Speaker 4: become more than just a fast cheap meal with the
[7:28] Speaker 4: aim of being the first choice for family outings and
[7:31] Speaker 4: other occasions. How are they going to do that?
[7:34] Speaker 7: You know, listen, we'll probably see more tie ins.
[7:37] Speaker 5: You know.
[7:37] Speaker 8: Last year was was the Minecraft meal that was absolutely
[7:41] Speaker 8: a monster for them globally, right, so they're gonna have
[7:44] Speaker 8: to use some more tie ins. You know, it's gonna
[7:48] Speaker 8: be tough, you know. I think what we're seeing is
[7:51] Speaker 8: McDonald's kind of taking some of these family family occasions
[7:56] Speaker 8: away from McDonald's this year. You know, Burger King has
[7:59] Speaker 8: remodeled their restaurants, improve the quality of the food, and
[8:03] Speaker 8: really done a nice job of building back sales over
[8:07] Speaker 8: the last few quarters. And I think McDonald's is feeling
[8:10] Speaker 8: it and that that's why they're kind of talking about
[8:13] Speaker 8: set that segment because it seems like they may be
[8:15] Speaker 8: losing some share there. I think what the real drivers
[8:19] Speaker 8: of this will be are, you know, beverages. I think
[8:23] Speaker 8: beverages is a very good opportunity for them to grow
[8:25] Speaker 8: sales in the afternoon day part.
[8:27] Speaker 5: You know.
[8:27] Speaker 8: I think they can take seems they can take sales
[8:30] Speaker 8: away from Sonic, who is a big competitor in the
[8:33] Speaker 8: beverage space that does a nice job in that you
[8:35] Speaker 8: know two to four pm lull where the restaurants are staffed,
[8:41] Speaker 8: and so they're primed to do more business. It's very
[8:43] Speaker 8: incremental sales in that day part. You know, they're going
[8:47] Speaker 8: to do some more training, some retraining in the fourth
[8:50] Speaker 8: quarter to help boost their operations. I think they're gonna
[8:53] Speaker 8: they're not going to do what they did this quarter,
[8:55] Speaker 8: which was just throw too many different marketing initiatives against
[8:58] Speaker 8: the wall. Right, you have to be more disciplined in
[9:01] Speaker 8: today's market because you know, these windows, everyone's marketing, and
[9:08] Speaker 8: everyone's putting in ltos and new food items and discounts
[9:12] Speaker 8: out there all the time because the low income consumer
[9:15] Speaker 8: is struggling. And so what we're seeing now is that
[9:19] Speaker 8: promotions are only giving you these chains a lift for one.
[9:22] Speaker 7: Or two weeks and then it fades and then it fades.
[9:25] Speaker 8: And so you know, if you're constantly marketing something new
[9:28] Speaker 8: every couple of weeks, you know.
[9:30] Speaker 2: People just show you out.
[9:31] Speaker 8: It gets confusing for the consumer, consumer, for the confusing
[9:35] Speaker 8: for the employees.
[9:36] Speaker 7: It just kind of makes a mess of things which
[9:39] Speaker 7: happen this quarter.
[9:40] Speaker 6: Yeah, it just becomes noise in the background. A lot
[9:42] Speaker 6: of analysts are saying that the results are kind of
[9:45] Speaker 6: the secondary story. The bigger story here is a change
[9:48] Speaker 6: in McDonald's USA leadership. Joe Erlinger is out and Sky Anderson,
[9:54] Speaker 6: who was the COEO, comes in. Do you see this
[9:57] Speaker 6: changing things dramatically for McDonald's.
[10:00] Speaker 7: Uh, I don't think so.
[10:02] Speaker 8: I mean, Erlinger did a great job, you know, so
[10:07] Speaker 8: you know that may be viewed as a loss by some,
[10:10] Speaker 8: but Sky Anderson has been there.
[10:12] Speaker 7: For a long time. She's worked very closely with Joe
[10:15] Speaker 7: and the US team.
[10:16] Speaker 8: UH in charge of operations, so you know, she has
[10:20] Speaker 8: a long track, strong track record at McDonald So I
[10:22] Speaker 8: don't expect too much of a change there.
[10:25] Speaker 4: Cyclo what is it again?
[10:28] Speaker 7: Cyclospora? Yeah?
[10:29] Speaker 4: What is that?
[10:31] Speaker 7: Let's a site that causes you know, very very bad diarrhea.
[10:38] Speaker 4: And so this is something that's impacting the lettuce Yes.
[10:42] Speaker 8: Yes, this is impacting let us. There was a pretty
[10:44] Speaker 8: big recall Taylor.
[10:45] Speaker 2: Forms is a big and Taco Bell getting caught up
[10:48] Speaker 2: in it.
[10:48] Speaker 7: And Taco Bell got caught up.
[10:50] Speaker 8: There was some news today that wasn't a good look
[10:52] Speaker 8: for them, right, so they you know, some somebody got
[10:55] Speaker 8: a hold of some emails that showed they knew about
[10:57] Speaker 8: this this outbreak maybe a weeks before they let their
[11:01] Speaker 8: consumers know, and so yeah, not a good look for them.
[11:05] Speaker 7: Also, there was a couple of deaths.
[11:06] Speaker 8: I think they were people that were had health issues
[11:09] Speaker 8: prior to cycle spore. But that's uncommon for cyclospora deaths, right,
[11:14] Speaker 8: that's more of like an E. Coli thing, So not
[11:18] Speaker 8: great for young brands. But you know, at the same time,
[11:20] Speaker 8: they just divested Pizza Hut. People are going to forget
[11:23] Speaker 8: about the cyclospora outbreak, and you know, this company is
[11:27] Speaker 8: set up for much much stronger top and bottom line
[11:29] Speaker 8: growth over the next twelve months because of you know,
[11:32] Speaker 8: they got rid of that yoke on its neck, which
[11:35] Speaker 8: so they just.
[11:36] Speaker 2: Have to get through this period.
[11:37] Speaker 6: In other words, you know, with all the bad news
[11:40] Speaker 6: and figuring out a solution to this. I want to
[11:43] Speaker 6: go back to something you said earlier, Michael, about how
[11:45] Speaker 6: McDonald's is trying to get more people into its stores
[11:48] Speaker 6: in the afternoon hours, you know.
[11:50] Speaker 2: Like with drinks.
[11:51] Speaker 6: I think about Starbucks and how it's trying to get
[11:53] Speaker 6: more people into its stores through food items. So everyone's
[11:57] Speaker 6: just trying to get away to get consumers to come
[11:59] Speaker 6: in around what two to four pm? That's the lull
[12:02] Speaker 6: and that's like the time of day they've targeted. And
[12:06] Speaker 6: if you sell food, then you want to provide drinks.
[12:08] Speaker 6: If you sell drinks, things want to provide food. What
[12:11] Speaker 6: did people do? What did companies do with that timeslot
[12:14] Speaker 6: before this, before this focused attention, they just kind of
[12:18] Speaker 6: gave up on it.
[12:18] Speaker 8: And no, I mean, you know, it makes a lot
[12:22] Speaker 8: of sense because your stores are staffed, right, you have
[12:26] Speaker 8: people in the stores, but you don't have a lot
[12:27] Speaker 8: of customers coming in. So any of those sales that
[12:31] Speaker 8: you can bring in in those types of times, since
[12:33] Speaker 8: they call them the shoulder periods, are very high margin. Right,
[12:37] Speaker 8: it's basically all incremental.
[12:39] Speaker 4: Samantha writes in says they need to offer happy hours.
[12:42] Speaker 4: That's a concept that works. Oh yeah, the bar business.
[12:44] Speaker 4: Why not in like a Bounce or Starbucks.
[12:48] Speaker 2: Stay with us more from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
[12:55] Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekday.
[13:00] Speaker 1: He's at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
[13:02] Speaker 1: Auto with the Blueberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
[13:06] Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
[13:10] Speaker 6: We also have earnings out from Caterpillar, which normally you
[13:14] Speaker 6: know it's a maker of earth moving machines, bulldozers the like,
[13:18] Speaker 6: But now it's become an AI play, not just in
[13:20] Speaker 6: a construction and mining equipment company, it's.
[13:22] Speaker 2: So much more.
[13:23] Speaker 6: Chris Ricilino is our senior US machinery analyst here at
[13:28] Speaker 6: Bloomberg Intelligence, and he joins us now with more on
[13:31] Speaker 6: these results, which some people have called blowout results, especially
[13:35] Speaker 6: the upside to Wall Street estimates for a second quarter profit. Chris,
[13:39] Speaker 6: give us a quick read here on Caterpillar's latest results.
[13:44] Speaker 9: Yeah, it's hard to refute those comments. It was really
[13:46] Speaker 9: a monster quarter you had against pretty lofty expectations heading
[13:51] Speaker 9: into the print. You had a really convincing bet and
[13:54] Speaker 9: raise better than expected sales and margins across all three businesses.
[13:58] Speaker 9: So it's not just the the AI power gen business.
[14:02] Speaker 9: And actually, I would say one of the more encouraging
[14:04] Speaker 9: takeaways from this print was a performance in their construction business,
[14:09] Speaker 9: so which really suggests that this recovery is broadening out
[14:12] Speaker 9: where you have a lot of the cyclical tailwind starting
[14:15] Speaker 9: to kick in and kind of enhance what we're seeing
[14:19] Speaker 9: on the secular side with the data center build out
[14:22] Speaker 9: orders again very strong in the quarter, push backlog to
[14:26] Speaker 9: another record level. We're north of seventy two billion dollars
[14:29] Speaker 9: on the backlog. They're already starting to take some orders
[14:32] Speaker 9: out to twenty thirty so above average production visibility. There's
[14:36] Speaker 9: really a lot to liken. This report. Question now becomes
[14:41] Speaker 9: is this as good as it gets? So we shall
[14:44] Speaker 9: see from here.
[14:45] Speaker 3: So Chris, as I understand your coverage of machinery and
[14:49] Speaker 3: the Deers of the world, the cats of the world,
[14:50] Speaker 3: I mean, I think that is classic cyclical stuff. But
[14:54] Speaker 3: these stocks are trading thirty five times earnings. I mean,
[14:57] Speaker 3: you're like a growth stock industry. Now, what's going on
[15:00] Speaker 3: with your industry is it's still cyclical.
[15:03] Speaker 9: It's hard to wrap your head around some of the
[15:04] Speaker 9: valuations in the space, even the small So we had
[15:07] Speaker 9: a Caterpillar. If you look over to last year, it's
[15:10] Speaker 9: really traded in line with a lot of the AI
[15:13] Speaker 9: and hyperscaler names in terms of just the moves and
[15:16] Speaker 9: the trajectory. It's been one of the top performers in
[15:20] Speaker 9: the industrials world because of that data center exposure in
[15:24] Speaker 9: their power generation business. At the end of the day,
[15:27] Speaker 9: I still believe this is still a cyclical company. They
[15:30] Speaker 9: had just been you know, uh, fortunately positioned to capitalize
[15:34] Speaker 9: on some of this build out with their large engines
[15:38] Speaker 9: and reciprocating the natural gas engines, which you know, initially
[15:42] Speaker 9: we're used more for backup power on the data centers,
[15:44] Speaker 9: but are becoming increasingly used in prime power applications. But
[15:48] Speaker 9: this is more than just a data center play. You're
[15:51] Speaker 9: just beginning to see. I think the fruits of that
[15:53] Speaker 9: in terms of the construction and mining recovery, which we
[15:57] Speaker 9: think have some legs into twenty seven and twenty eight.
[16:00] Speaker 6: You know, if Caterpillar has more demand than it knows
[16:03] Speaker 6: what to do with, and that power and Energy unit
[16:05] Speaker 6: has grown to be the largest for Caterpillar by sales
[16:09] Speaker 6: for the stuff that it can't take on. Who benefits
[16:12] Speaker 6: what other companies are kind of, you know, getting some
[16:15] Speaker 6: of the business that Caterpillar can't take on.
[16:18] Speaker 9: Right, So it's a race to add capacity. At this point,
[16:21] Speaker 9: Caterpillar is increasing their large engine capacity by three x
[16:25] Speaker 9: through the end of the decade, turbines by two and
[16:29] Speaker 9: a half times through the end of the decade. Come Ins,
[16:31] Speaker 9: another one of their competitors. They're also significantly increasing their capacity. Really,
[16:36] Speaker 9: it's just a matter of who has product availability is
[16:39] Speaker 9: to who's getting some of these contracts. Right now, the
[16:42] Speaker 9: industry really can't add capacity fast enough. That is one
[16:47] Speaker 9: of the overarching concerns now where we're adding too much capacity.
[16:51] Speaker 9: But right now, I mean, from all indications from this report,
[16:54] Speaker 9: it doesn't seem like there's any signs of that slowing down.
[16:58] Speaker 9: And in fact, some of their lead times have actually
[17:00] Speaker 9: extended this quarter. Like I mentioned, some of their customers
[17:03] Speaker 9: already taken orders out to twenty thirty, which you know,
[17:06] Speaker 9: highly unusual for them at this point.
[17:09] Speaker 2: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
[17:16] Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
[17:20] Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
[17:23] Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
[17:26] Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
[17:30] Speaker 2: All right, let's not go to the healthcare sector.
[17:32] Speaker 6: I'm not sure that those stocks are trading those kinds
[17:35] Speaker 6: of multiples. Let's bring Sam Fazzelli, who knows a thing
[17:38] Speaker 6: or two about the healthcare sector. He is our director
[17:41] Speaker 6: of research covering healthcare, defense industrials, and autos and he
[17:44] Speaker 6: joins us right now from London. So Sam, Pfizer and
[17:47] Speaker 6: Merk both coming out with the results. What is the
[17:50] Speaker 6: narrative here for these two big pharma companies.
[17:54] Speaker 10: Yeah, Scarlett, So the story here really is that you've
[17:57] Speaker 10: got two companies both heading and facing some significant patent expiries,
[18:03] Speaker 10: which means some of their big drugs are going to
[18:06] Speaker 10: go generic. And therefore they're going to say but things
[18:10] Speaker 10: like aliquists that fires the cells are going to fall
[18:13] Speaker 10: off a cliff literally, and they do call it a
[18:15] Speaker 10: pat cliff too. So within six months and eight ninety
[18:19] Speaker 10: percent of the volume can be eroded depending on the
[18:22] Speaker 10: way the generics come in. If there's any ones I
[18:25] Speaker 10: have six months exclusivity, then they don't drop the price
[18:28] Speaker 10: that much. But in the end, pretty much the business
[18:31] Speaker 10: goes away, which is great because that's what farmer companies
[18:33] Speaker 10: should do. They get their phenomenal dollars behind the R
[18:37] Speaker 10: and D, make a new drug, make a lot of
[18:39] Speaker 10: profit for ten years, eleven years, eight years, whatever the
[18:42] Speaker 10: length of time is. Then everybody gets gets access to
[18:45] Speaker 10: it at a much lower price, and work is the
[18:47] Speaker 10: same because they've got tutor coming up. So Both of
[18:49] Speaker 10: these companies are looking ahead to this issue. Both are
[18:53] Speaker 10: therefore stories about pipeline. What have I got to replace
[18:57] Speaker 10: this lost sales? Mark's holy potentially bigger at least just
[19:01] Speaker 10: basing that on the volume of sales today or value
[19:05] Speaker 10: of sales today. But yet, if you need to kind
[19:08] Speaker 10: of just done the chart. He I was looking at
[19:09] Speaker 10: it and playing with it. Now you look at Murg,
[19:12] Speaker 10: it's up sixty percent in twelve months. Sixty percent. That's
[19:16] Speaker 10: pretty much not far from where the SMP five hundred is.
[19:20] Speaker 10: Pfizer is up seven percent, So massive underperformance. Why because
[19:25] Speaker 10: one has been able to convince that they've got the pipeline,
[19:29] Speaker 10: the other one hasn't.
[19:32] Speaker 4: So sam are we is the number of drugs and
[19:36] Speaker 4: the amount of sales associated with those drugs potentially you know,
[19:39] Speaker 4: at risk or scheduled to come off? Pattern?
[19:41] Speaker 2: Is it more today.
[19:42] Speaker 4: Than it's been in the pass? It just seems like
[19:44] Speaker 4: we hear about it more and more from these big companies.
[19:47] Speaker 10: Well, yes and no, because you know we've had these
[19:51] Speaker 10: big patterners. The biggest pattern cliff was around the twenty
[19:53] Speaker 10: ten time frame where Pfizers themselves went on board sharing PLOW.
[19:58] Speaker 10: If I'm not mistaken. It's a long time, you know,
[20:00] Speaker 10: one is allowed a little bit of memory. Last in
[20:04] Speaker 10: my I think it was a sharing planer and bought
[20:06] Speaker 10: another company. Anyway, they bought. They did these mega mergers.
[20:10] Speaker 10: No remember the one we were talking about yesterday with
[20:12] Speaker 10: what Astro is doing, which is why I'm incredulous because
[20:15] Speaker 10: they don't have a patent expiry issue to deal with anyway,
[20:18] Speaker 10: there are Remember, the drugs are bigger now, the sales
[20:22] Speaker 10: are bigger now. So when you have a Cutruder that
[20:25] Speaker 10: I don't think anyone you go back and use our
[20:27] Speaker 10: modl function and have a look and see what people
[20:30] Speaker 10: thought Cutruder would be selling, which is a cancer drug
[20:33] Speaker 10: by Mark back in twenty sixteen, seventeen, maybe ten billion.
[20:38] Speaker 10: The thing is heading for forty billion dollars of sales
[20:41] Speaker 10: because it turned into a pipeline their product, and that
[20:45] Speaker 10: is a big number to play. Imagine our GLP wants
[20:47] Speaker 10: for Lily one day when when Munjaro goes off pattern
[20:52] Speaker 10: or whatever. Uh, how do you do deal with a
[20:55] Speaker 10: thirty forty billion dollar sales implosion? That is tougher, which
[20:59] Speaker 10: is why they talking about it more and investors are
[21:02] Speaker 10: if you want more focused.
[21:04] Speaker 6: On it right, makes a lot of sense. Before we
[21:06] Speaker 6: let you go, just a quick question on biointech. This
[21:09] Speaker 6: is of course a German drug maker, and it's still
[21:12] Speaker 6: talking about a COVID nineteen vaccine demand shrinking for that
[21:15] Speaker 6: is there? What does demand for a COVID nineteen vaccine
[21:18] Speaker 6: look like right now? I mean, certainly in the US
[21:21] Speaker 6: it kind of has dropped off the conversation completely.
[21:24] Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, so people still taking it. I mean,
[21:27] Speaker 10: what's happening with COVID, which is very interesting is that
[21:29] Speaker 10: we've had four years since the pandemic. We've had two waves.
[21:34] Speaker 10: This year, the summer waves disappeared. It seems to be
[21:38] Speaker 10: heading if this sticks to a winter wave, which is
[21:42] Speaker 10: what other coronaviruses and most cold viruses seem to have.
[21:46] Speaker 10: So this would mean that if there was any demand
[21:50] Speaker 10: for the summer period, that's fallen, by the way, So
[21:53] Speaker 10: and they just downgraded their guidance by about ten percent
[21:56] Speaker 10: for the full year, but Moderna has been sticking with
[21:59] Speaker 10: this guidance. Someple competition were in on there, ethic.
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